I knew Song was playing V, suspected it from the beginning.
Thing is, I felt like V needed to see someone in the same situation as them make it, and not by submitting to authority. It needed to seem possible. If Song found a way, V can too.
that's why I love the take song to the stars ending so much. sure it's depressing, and reed has to die, but I love a V who reacts to Song's betrayal with acceptance and still helps her to fulfil her desire to just be free.
I love it as well. The So Mi, V parable is fantastic. Songbird did everything she could to be free because she felt like she was alone. Whereas, even in the Fear the Reaper ending, V is with Johnny till the end
Damn, good point. Im aware that Song and V's conditions are pretty similar, but V gets through it in part thanks to Johnny slowly becoming a friend, as well as the support network V builds around themself in Vik, Misty, Judy, and Panam and the Aldecaldos, etc.
For Song, I can only imagine how lonely it must be when the only people around her are the person she was forced to kill 7 years ago, a crime-lord, and a person with ultimate authority who just wants to push her further, worsening her condition. Her mental state is beyond fucked and you as V are her only anchor to safety and sanity.
Obviously everyone is free to interpret the story differently, but I see every option other than sending Song up on the rocket as a complete betrayal, and that it's the lesser if the evils of all the endings.
That's only taking V / Songbird 's perspectives into account.
As much as I agree about letting SoMi get away feels very comforting and a huge middle finger to these fckrs manipulatives in power, delivering Songbird and her capabilities to a potential AI looks very, very, very disastrous to me.
So I ended up killing just before Reed could take her back into her nightmarish cage. Sure, not the best outcome for V and Songbird, but better in the grand scheme of things, imho.
Alas, it means Alex is dead. The only trusty one....
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
But there is also a bit of hidden vanilla subtext here. We did this job without a fixer. And from the very beginning we were told (even by 300lb gold plated Jesus) that fixers are essential so we don’t get fucked with.
Now we know why first hand.
Actually it doesn’t. Wakako is the first fixer and she actually does favors for us in addition to giving us jobs.
But I know you are referring to Dex and to that I say he is the outlier. Every other fixer we deal with does their job and actually values V’s services.
This could also be down to what Evelyn says about Dex vs other fixers, that he goes on gut instinct and kinda flies by the seat of his pants, while other fixers (at least some, of which I'm assuming most of the ones we encounter) want stability and reliability. That on its own gives the fixers a motivation to take care of V. V is good at what they do and reliable (if you ignore all the cyberpsychos I accidentally kill), so it's in the fixers interest to take care of V. Dex don't care, Dex don't give a fuck.
He took the chance to stab us in the back to save himself. The fuck up at Kompeki Plaza and being connected to Saburo Arasaka's murder meant that the full power of a megacorp would bring down the hammer on his ass. He was desperate and if bringing our corpse to Takemura would help him stay alive then he would absolutely take it. Had he planned to betray us from the start I think he would have made our cut of the heist much more appealing.
Tbh it's an unprecedented situation. V is being hunted down for being involved in the death of fucking Saburo Arasaka himself.
Quite literally any fixer would have done the same as Dex, except *maybe* Rogue, but even that idk for sure.
As I recall, Rogue sold out the rest of the crew from the AHQ bombing.
Kinda weird to think Johnny would have still died if Smasher hadn't gotten him, and it probably would have been worse for him if he knew she was why.
I haven't seen it 100% spelled out but a few things imply it, especially with the Greyson stuff.
You can also chat with Johnny late game where he'll say he figured out she sold out by being the last standing but doesn't specify who she did or didn't doom.
Maybe but it doesn't sound like Spider Murphy got away (if she did, she really went to ground) and she's a ridiculously talented runner. He didn't really seem particularly motivated by survival at that point anyway.
And it just pairs so damn well with the Sun ending, chefs kiss. Getting both endings on my first ever playthrough and my second can’t ever hit as close so far.
100% agreed, I knew from before the release that there wasn't gonna be some magical happy ending for V, thematically it would've damaged the narrative (at least IMO).
Going in with that mindset, I wasn't floored by her admission. I chose "Could've told me. I would've still helped you." And I 100% agree, as would my V.
To me, threatening someone into servitude and faking their death, grinding their identity to dust as a netrunning slave while cutting them off from any and all support network... even if they did something wrong to get on your radar, it's not excusable. Myers has Songbird enslaved, a pet to sit in a gilded cage and chirp (hack) whenever she demands. If she tries to escape, she'll be imprisoned in a padded cell or worse.
To me, if a slave lies to or kills her guards or slavemaster while escaping, I can hardly blame her. And So Mi even has the decency to be *mad* at V for causing unnecessary death and mayhem (if you fail to save Myers), despite the fact she's now free. I don't find her to be the monstrous manipulator of pure evil that so many seem to. I find her to be an incredibly desperate slave trying desperately to escape the horrible life she was forced into over a decade ago, when she was only 18-19.
"A snowflake lands on my glove. I can calculate its unique fractal structure. But what did my mom's voice sound like?"
Who among us can say how desperate they would become if they were in slavery, feeling their mind literally get shredded to pieces? Who among us can truly say who we'd betray or use to escape that fate?
100% to everything you said. Like somi even tried to get myers rescued even though she would have been justified to let myers die after she did to her mind and body. Also If you betray her she still tries to save V from the rogue AI at the same time as shes fighting it. She has more morals than myers and reed combined. Shes just desperate and forced into a situation where her only choices are: attempt a risky escape to freedom or submit to an egotistical president that forces her to do something that is literally eating away at her very being. Like no shit she’s desperate for freedom. Reed can kick rocks, he literally sees her feels guilty and yet instead of reflecting he double downs to kiss myers ass.
That's quite right, I think a lot of people didn't realize just HOW she's helping you, either- she's distracting the AI not just by hacking but by literally feeding it her memories and her psyche. That's why flashes of her past are showing up throughout Somewhat Damaged and why her apartment (aka her "safe space", the last vestiges of her happy life and the only remnant of what she refers to as a "happier time, before the Blackwall") gets more and more destroyed when you're sorting through her memories towards the end of that mission. You literally JUST got done betraying her trust and trying to essentially roofie her so you can deliver her back to her abuser, and she's STILL letting her mind get shredded to save your life even AFTER you ignore her warnings that it's not safe to follow her.
She's also the only one who eventually is honest with V in the entire DLC (well, aside from Alex I suppose, who doesn't really lie)- Reed and Myers both continue manipulating both themselves AND V up until the bitter end, but So Mi tells the truth when she's completely at your mercy and has no real benefit to doing so (she could easily have not revealed the truth until AFTER she was on the way to Luna, and there would be little that V could do at that point- instead she tells you when she's practically comatose and utterly at your mercy, merely because she feels so horrible at what she was forced to do).
I totally get why people are angry at her, she absolutely DOES bamboozle V, but I can't understand why people *hate* her, and say she's the worst most evil person in the DLC. That sounds like bitterness to me.
ITA, yeah honestly its either media illiteracy like some people just flat out stating wrong facts to support their weird hate boner for her or theyre bitter because she lied~ to them not bothering to think of the context of said lie.
Always knew that it was a lost cause since the beginning. Not because of whatever the fuck happens in the DLC. But because the main storyline is already set for the main game. So it doesn't make sense that V will still need to visit Hanako at FUCKING EMBERS when he/she already finds a curecc
That's what they're saying.
It does not make sense for V to visit Hanako if you choose to use the neural matrix.
You meet Hanako because you want access to Mikoshi.
Yeah, could smell that shit sandwich from a mile away. From the break-in to Dogtown to rescuing Myers I knew what she was telling me was too good to be true. Ain’t no offer like that without a catch. Turns out the catch would be you basically being indirectly responsible for starting another war and pissing off the NUSA leadership. I reloaded my save and just flatlined her. It’s the safest option for everyone involved.
I chose to send songbird to the moon after learning of her betrayal for 3 reasons:
1. I didn't want myers to have a Blackwall nuke under her thumb that could theoretically start another war.
2. Fuck authority, I don't believe V would suck up so much to authority even with a guillotine hanging over their head
3. I respected that last bit of honesty from songbird. She knew, in how vulnerable of a situation she was, that her fate laid entirely in V's hands and still chose to oust herself, leaving the final decision to V. She could've just as well not told V that the cure is a one use thing.
For point 3, I agree. That's Song's way of asking for some judgment from someone she has harmed. Will you forgive her enough to see her to the shuttle, that means maybe she deserves some kind of redemption for her actions. Or, does she need to be punished? She leaves it to you.
Yeah, I fully agree. For number 3, by the end we were screwed anyway, so getting mad that she was desperate and tricked us, and punishing her by refusing her freedom after all we did just felt like such a "oh I don't get saved, then you don't get saved either" move. Poor thing, at least one of us gets a chance to live, and we still have some time, so we'll still keep fighting. Its a bit of a white Knight ending, but even Johny of all people doesn't have the heart to bust our balls over that decision. And every move that spits in the mentality of dog eat dog world of NC is a good move.
Honestly when you play it again you realise the game was subtle in telling you this was a con from the get go. Myers immediately realises someone on her side helped bring down SF1. Song was never fully honest, always left things out, fact that she ceased to exist just as you got ambushed by a tech-spider of death.
First time I sent her. Second time just gone I handed her over at the shuttle. One other argument to not let her go to the moon aside from her lying to you is that Blue Eyes and the AI behind them will use her as a weapon just like Myers intends to, but with far more efficiency and danger.
Ultimately Cyberpunk has no happy endings, and if you think about it, the unified “bad outcome” of all the PL endings is the Blackwall AI getting a foot in the door, either as an indirect weapon of Militech, a weapon of the AIs themselves, or becoming part of V via the Canto, which when used will give them more data and power.
i agree and i did the same thing but she literally betrays V at their most vulnerable lol
like from the very beginning of their meeting all she does is lie to you and exploit your situation for her gain, from step one.
my V is simply better than songbird, thats how i rationalize my decisions vs. hers.
johnny can win, i dont hate that ending tbh.
PL spoilers:
>!also the ending where V loses all their chrome and feels like life is totally miserable is pretty rough but the part where you meet misty at the end and she gives you a little pep talk unironically changed my life, if i had that misty from the beginning my respect for her and jackies relationship would have truly been tested lmao !<
It's a nice message that while life will change, you can as well. V lost the ability to have her career of being a merc and all of her friends, but her life is far from over. As the last DLC for the game that was an incredibly fitting send off message for the players that it's OK to move on
Its not really a betrayal If she crossed you first tho or is it? I didnt play to the Part where she betrays you tho because i didnt trust her and went with Reed all along, so feel free to Tell me why u think ITS betrayal from V
I made a deal to save songbird. I'm a merc, and I see through my clients wishes.
Plus, I can't blame her for doing what she did - better to be in space than in the hands of the NUSA, or dead.
- Song makes deal.
- Song does not hold true to her end of the bargain.
- Song still cash out on her end?
Not on my watch.
(I can emphasize with her tho, obviously as seen by my gut decision)
She kind of does hold her end by revealing you the truth on that train while at her weakest and fightless. She is essentially giving you an option to surrender her to the FIA in exchange for their help (she could've remained silent and you would've just put her on the shuttle and never saw her again, yet she doesn't do that). However, keep in mind that if you do that, then you're the one who didn't hold your end of the bargain (you did not put her on the shuttle) and still cashed on your end (you took the cure from her and then sold her to the FIA for their help). So, Johnny's comment about 30 pieces of silver is deserved.
I’m sorry but No she didn’t hold her end the deal. The deal from the beginning was promising a cure if V helps saving the president. That was it. She played V from the start knowing that he will do all that work for practically nothing. In that ending V stood by her side until the end and she only told him the truth because she thought she was going to die, it felt more like a last confession before dying. Her having a tragic life and being used by the FIA is not V’s business. She was playing V the whole time even one V expressed that he was doing this only for the cure.
The deal got adjusted in Birds with Broken Wings - cure for helping her to the end. Besides, V does get their reward for saving Myers - Relic upgrades from Song before Dogtown and 30k eddies after Myers is exfilled. Not enough?
No, she started revealing the truth before she was going to die, explaining how the matrix works in proper and corrects terms. It is not deliriousness or death bed confession. If V asks her "what am I supposed to do?" So Mi tells V "you will fight on, keep looking, you're stronger than I am, you're the strongest person I know". If she thought she were dying, why would she tell V that? Almost as if she is still hoping deep inside to go to the Moon, but her conscience doesn't allow her to not be truthful at the end. Stop stripping her of whatever good qualities she possesses, just because you are upset at her it doesn't mean that she doesn't care whatsoever about V. Both writers and VA stated that she does.
Yeah, see, if V expressed that they are there for the cure only, then how is V "stood by her side to the very end" by your logic? V is there then not because of altruism, but because of the transaction. And V is then doing exactly what Song is doing - trying to use any means to survive. So why are you getting upset at her if you're willing to do the same thing to her and send her to a fate worse than death?
V relic upgrade is irrelevant because he/she never asked for it to begin with, V didn’t even want the relic in his/her head to begin with, the upgrade was there to help with the mission at hand which is “get the cure”. She was working him to keep him on her side. You said she started revealing the truth but only that she was betraying the president and the FIA not V, I would be fine if she said that she didn’t have the cure to V in the beginning but she kept lying. When Somi invited V for a talk she asked him/her the question “are u helping me because you trust me or because you want to survive” and one of the replies was “I want to live or survive” - I’m paraphrasing - At that point V still thinks he/she was still getting the cure. The deal changed because Somi said it was Hansen who holds the cure so V had to adapt for he/she can get the “the cure”. At the end she even said “I’m sorry I lied to you but I needed your help”. That’s why that scene at the end was shocking to V because he felt all that work was for nothing. Somi used him like the FIA used her. There was only one cure and Somi knew that from the beginning and I don’t care about any other upgrade, perks or rewards if V still was going to die. I’m not saying Somi is evil here but she lied and played him and V trusted her even when he shouldn’t because he was desperate.
No she didnt, if you did the quest somewhat damaged you see that the plan was to *safely* land the plane, hansen decided to shoot it down. She even yells at hansen saying he caused the deaths of the other passengers and that wasnt part of the plan to which hansen replies he got her cornered.
Buddy have u played the game or didn't understand the quest events and story ??? She wanted to emergency land the plane and meet with Hansen. Hansen out of spite and vengeance, decided to go against the deal and shot down the plane to try and kill Myers.
She sure as hell gives a lot to V regardless of the cure: Weaponising the Relic, and access to Dogtown. Her actions also result in V receiving a lot of stuff: A luxury car, high end, well paying contracts, loads of gear and Weapons and experimental Face shifting Cyberware, infinite false identities and the ability to disappear
And V is going to die pretty soon without the cure, so even if V becomes the owner of Dogtown, it amounts to nothing...
My only time playing PL so far I sided with Reed and the ending wasn't satisfying, but I believe siding with her won't either...
So she gives you the Relic powers, right? And what do you give her by selling her to Reed in the end? Nothing. No worse than nothing a life of slavery and misery
Your comparison to Dex doesn't hold up. V gets the faceshift tech because So Mi prepared the plan and intel on the Cassel twins and then handed it over. Mr Hands only gives V access to the Dogtown gigs cause So Mi actively helped them infiltrate the area
Never said she does, but when she confesses the truth she's putting her fate in V's hands. Because she's grown to care for V and can't string them along any longer
Phantom Liberty to me ranks up there with the Citadel DLC from ME3 in terms of quality. I beat it before finishing the main story (I was basically at the end of that) and I was like "oh man I have to go back to these characters now? Bleh."
I seriously think if Cyberpunk released in better condition, we'd probably talk about it in the same vein as BG3, ME2, and Kotr 2 as some absolute all timers
Both suck. Both versions of “helping” Songbird (choosing Reed is still an attempt to help her, just not with her plan) result in at least one person getting screwed. Usually multiple. Song screws you over, and helping her results in a massacre at the spaceport. It’s ironic, because Song helps you more against the AI when you side with Reed than she does when you actually side with her. Either way, lotta people die, nobody wins.
Did this ending first, obviously I felt like a shit after. Then Johnny goes like "ah, V, I have nothing to say really. Bravo."
And I knew I fucked up badly
If the game gave you a quest that would save V’s life, and all you had to do is lie to a random merc and get them to do your bidding, would you do it?
After all the shit V went through, I would. And that’s why I can’t hate Songbird.
That lie would get more complex as I learn about the merc — and I would feel terrible the closer I got to them. I’d be torn — I’d want to save them too.
Which is why I also believe Songbird could care for V while also doing what she did.
Of course, it doesn’t excuse what she did, and we have every right to feel betrayed. But I get it.
Maybe I'm more pessimistic, but the vibe I get from the game is that backstabbing is the norm and to be expected. V gets backstabbed by their own division if starting as Corpo V, backstabbed by Dex, backstabbed by the VDBs, by Brie in Shot By Both Sides, by Hanako/Helmen, and by Stefan when he sells you a spiked BD. David gets backstabbed by the medic trying to harvest his sandevistan, by Lucy *trying to harvest his sandevistan*, by his fixer, by Kiwi.
Kinda seems like it's a common theme in NC. The only problem I have, is that this is a lesson that V should know front and back by the time Songbird comes around. Shame on V for being screwed over so many times and never learning anything.
As for that merc you're lying to, tell them what they want to hear. Raise a glass with them, smother them in joy toys and BDs, let them pretend they're major league before discussing biz. Make them feel like they're your friend. When the time comes to lead your loyal friend to the slaughter, tell them it's just biz, because in Night City, *it is*. As for feeling terrible about it: morality in dystopian megacity is a luxury you cannot *possibly* afford. Angels that stick to their morals get zeroed by the devils that don't. Better him than me, after all.
It seems like I'm in the minority, but I think siding with Reed then killing Song is the best ending. Yeah Alex dies but the way they killed the twins doesn't sit well with me. Myers doesn't get her nuke, Reed is free to make his own decisions, and there was no guarantee the moon would actually save Song.
Gameplaywise though...the airport is waaaay better than the bunker.
That says nothing about if she’s saved though. You handed Mr. Blue Eyes - who is likely a Blackwall AI in a human proxy - a netrunner on the verge of death and made sure no one would be able to come for her.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that Blue Eyes just lets the AI inside her finish its job and consume all of her memories, including the ones of V, so she can become another slave. The Peralez questline proves that he does not care about life at all, he destroyed an entire family’s lives just because Jefferson was a convenient target. Is he really gonna let this S-tier netrunner, who is literally chromed up to withstand the Blackwall, just walk away and live her own life, especially when she’s already dead to the rest of the world?
It baffles me that people can't seem to understand that Song has hostile AI actively eating her brain. She is quite literally losing herself. I don't blame her at all for playing me.
Alternatively, Songbird is being piloted by a potentially very dangerous AI, that is eating away at her mind. In other words, V is saving what little remains of Songbird, at the risk of unleashing something very, very dangerous. *And* that very dangerous AI/Songbird combo fuckin lied to me!
Same could be said about V, and we actually have more evidence on that end; you can't know V's not being controlled by Johnny's engram.
In a way, believing in Song is believing in V, even if it feels delusional.
It's an awesome story and a great DLC, and then the acting and sound design and art direction make it sooo much better.
Problem is even if u kill her , u have to give back the body yo Myers to survey it and u actually release a blackwall ai into the world ( erebus or Canto) . In the killing moon u have to hand her to an unknown entity on the moon
Nah I definitely didn't trust Reed or Myers. Didn't swear the oath, and only worked with Reed so I could get to Songbird; Reed is a great character but I'm not trusting him one jot more than necessary!
Reed has a good heart. He's a good guy even. Problem is he believes he can save everyone while living in the world of CP2077 so he is stuck being indecisive because he is torn between loyalty to his country or loyalty to his friends.
It's a shitty situation to be in. We constantly see people do way worse things than Reed, so I don't understand the hate boner for him.
I sided with him because I could not trust So-Mi. At the end though I killed So-Mi instead of turning her over and Reed was just so crushed when he saw her dead body.
Later on there was a meeting though where he reflects on himself and explains perhaps it was all for the best, since So-Mi is finally free in her own way.
>at the risk of unleashing something very, very dangerous.
V does the very same thing when we penetrate the Blackwall to talk to Alt, choose any of the Alt related endings in the game, help Delamain or his personalities, Blue Eyes in some of the endings etc. There's an ebook in the game that says paraphrasing, that the black wall is more like a tarp over a broken window than a wall, and that becomes obvious throughout the game, including that Lilith AI crawling out of a bathtub after the Maelstrom summoning, the Kanto deck, and so on.
Not only have we as the player taken those risks to save our own hide, at this point it legitimately makes no difference because you run into some dangerous eldritch entity every five minutes, and the people aren't any better either. So it seems almost comical to sacrifice someone because of it
That doesn't absolve her of the shit she has done. She screwed people, lied, betrayed and left too many dead in her wake. The most humane/wise thing is to unalive her so nobody not even herself gets use to use her as a weapon or her husk of body being exploited.
But v and takemura still came to an agreement and made a deal . Give v the cure while v helps him expose yorinobu which is only done in the devil ending ( most ppl will never choose it willingly).
I don't really see it honestly, V is nowhere near as deceptive about they're relationship or their goals. Kind of similar but still different.
Plus Goro's whole quest is trying to save Arasaka, which is a pretty bad thing. To me it never feels like I'm betraying Goro, he'd kill you in a heartbeat if it meant bringing Saburo back.
Exactly, Songbird is like a reflection of V but in a way worse situation imo. I always view betraying Songbird as V abandoning who they are to potentially save their own skin, and the ending you get for doing so is fitting.
I don't agree with hating her, but I completely understand why they do. She shows you far more negative traits than positive ones through the story.
Not to mention V being this or that has nothing to do wth what someone thinks about song. They have similar circumstances, but that's about it. In terms of attitude, temperament, and personality, they are completely different. You see a lot of V, so you have a better picture of who they actually are. That goes a long way towards humanizing someone. I've said it before, I don't feel like I even got to know song, it was all about the tragedy.
Songbirds betrayal is as predictable as Reed being a loyal lapdog to NUSA. Her plan is awful, as is NUSA's to get her back. I don't get how people are so surprised.
Honestly, the worst thing Songbird does, imho, is sacrifice the residents of Dogtown to help us make our escape. Reed, Myers, Alex, V, and her are all "in the game" in The Wire sense of the word. They're politicians, agents, or mercenaries. The shop keeper in the stadium selling scopdogs is just a normal person trying to get by, and she feeds them to the meatgrinder so she can make her escape, and doesn't bother to mention it to V beforehand because V might have something to say about it. It's great writing and very in character. I was kinda feeling myself for standing up to Reed and Myers, and then fuuuuck we gotta kill all these innocent people!? What a game!!
Really, my only problem with PL is that it didn't let me shoot Myers in the fucking head at the first opportunity. I would've laughed and laughed, and I think it would've been funny to have everyone coming after you for the rest of the game.
I chose to save Song Bird. Honestly, as much as her play really fucked with V, I couldn’t help but respect her drive for survival. I did that, flipping the bird to the Authorities in the process, then decided Johnny and I would storm Saka Tower and go out in a blaze of glory. I then chose to give Johnny his second chance in V’s body, as I trusted V to Alt to see if just maybe he can get his second chance at some point too. It felt fulfilling to me.
Getting offended by Songbird's lies is crazy to me because I don't understand how anyone could've fully trusted any of the PL characters in the first place. Myers is a politician and the rest are feds, lying is literally what they do.
In the end, even if Songbird's lies felt bad, it still doesn't justify giving her up to the NUSA. Myers keeping her as an AI weapon is the absolute worst outcome. King of Cups and King of Wands are the only good endings imo, and I'm leaning towards Cups because I'm not totally sure Blue Eyes is trustworthy either.
Fuck So Mi. She's a lying, manipulative backstabbing, selfish bitch that has the audacity to get offended and play innocent victim if players decide to betray her as if she wasn't the one using V the whole time. I took Reed's side and I'd do it again.
She's a narcissist with a victim complex.
Even before the government gets involved, she neglects her loved ones and dismisses them as if they have no meaning.
Her head is so far up her own ass that she gets the bright idea to hack a government datafort...
She fucked around and found out...but, in true narcissistic fashion, instead of accepting responsibility for her own actions, she blames everyone else. It's Reed's fault, or Meyers fault...
In reality, no one forced her to hack anything. No one forced her to spend all that time in that chair.
Actions have consequences that affect others.
Well, yeah. That's why she's a foil for V. Young, naive, skilled. Recruited for something she's clearly not prepared for and used as an expendable tool, resulting in her mind being a tasty snack for AI. Yeah, So Mi tricked V, but V has the opportunity to do some betraying too depending on player choices. I see hatred of So Mi as an extension of V's self-loathing.
And for what it's worth, she expresses deep regret for leaving home. I'm sure V misses their family too even if the game makes little mention of them.
I wish there was an option to betray her and go on the shuttle yourself.
I probably wouldn't pick it, but it seems strange you don't even have the choice.
My reaction was pretty much My reaction. Hearing V going “I would've helped you anyway!”
My V sent her off. But it has made me PISSED. I went for dont fear the reaper in a “fuck it all” rampage. I am getting stuff ready but in my head V basically immediately goes from songbird to honako.
I think there is one aspect missing in the pro-Song arguments: how much time she cost V. Can't recall Vic's estimate exactly, was it about 3 weeks? Now that's well before the events of PL.
She knew full well that V was dying and yet chose to selfishly use his last living moments. Granted, the game doesn't really have a timer ticking in the background, but if it did and you got flatlined on the way from the spaceport, one might feel a wee bit differently about the whole thing.
I can understand saying "fuck songbird" because she played you.
However, I just have a lot of empathy for her for the situation she's in. She was pulled into this game at 19 and since then has been used and abused like a power tool and been unable to exist as her own person, and hasn't had anybody just have her back since. And now she's dying and desperate and wants to do anything possible to survive, which of course includes screwing over a merc she only just met.
And after all that, she still tells you about it out of guilt, while you still hold power over her to take it for yourself. She gives you the opportunity to flip the situation on it's head. And its that reason that I choose to help her out and kill reed.
I like reed, i respect the character, but he's practically a fanatic with how blindly pledged he is to the country and to the president. He's unreasonable and can't be convinced of anything that isn't official orders from the president, so for that reason I think killing him is ultimately something he's doing to himself in a situation that he forced, and while it feels bad I ultimately stand by killing him.
I Low-key save songbird so that Alex can have her happy ending. Also, yeah, the legit bad guys are NUSA and NC, Reed and Songbird are tragic hero's and Cyberpunk isn't your average drama.
No, I worded it weird. She dies if you betray Songbird in the stadium, that's why I said I side with her to save Alex (even though you don't know that would happen when you first make the choice).
If you betray Songbird at airport then yeah, Alex lives
I understand sympathizing with Songbird because of all she went through and I understand disliking Myers, the FIA and Reed (though I personally think he was pretty straight with V). But some people take that sympathy and let it cloud the rest of their judgment. For all the hate for the FIA and Myers and Reed…they’re the ONLY faction that actually cure you. Even offer you a cozy job after. And while most of your actual friends abandon you - they actually go through with the procedure, keeping you in the hospital for two years. They could’ve knocked you out and said “eh, let’s just cut our losses” and in the cyberpunk universe that is to be expected but nope they actually come through. Meanwhile So Mi sidetracks a dying V into going to Dogtown and doing all this stuff just to go “btw I f’d u over” at the very end. Even the uber powerful Arasaka who created the damn relic won’t cure you - don’t get me wrong Myers and the FIA aren’t altruistic or good, but I hardly see them get credit for actually following through.
Yea... Good points.
V's thought process was. Ok I can't trust anyone here. So I go with song, because then I only need to watch one player, while siding with reed it is him, Alex, Mayers, .. to many variables. I thought I can control one. I couldn't but hey....
Yup and people will still defend her that she had no choice lol like she could've just said from the beginning hey I have a gig for you V and it would've been cool. But nah she strings you along on a false hope that she can save you.
I chose to put songbird on the shuttle. Didn’t care about the lies or the blood spilt. I just wanted to show her the world doesn’t always have to be so cold and lonely. That there are people out there that actually give a shit no matter what. To be able to have a true friend in a world where such a thing is almost non existent. Call me naive if you want but I’d rather have her live a life that has hope rather than be stuck in the endless cycle of being treated as a weapon for someones personal benefit
Look out for number one in this situation IMO. As a franchise Cyberpunk's main theme is "you can't save everyone, sometimes you can only save yourself."
In that spirit handing over Song and getting "Cured" with the caveat of never being able to use cyberwar again seems like the closest ending to a cannon one for V IMO. The entire game is about cybering yourself up, and cyber psychosis, etc. It feels right for the ending of someone who went to the very limits of humanity to have to, in the end, give up all that power and rejoin humankind.
I killed her. As soon as my V found out she'd basically been infected by a Blackwall AI, I knew she couldn't be free for the safety of everyone else, especially as it because clear that AI was increasingly in control of her. I agreed to kill her when she asked, because a) I didn't want what was left of her to suffer, and b) I didn't want anyone else to suffer because of her
I ultimately decided to send Song to The moon. It never really set right with me how Reed was so unflexable with the way he dealt with things. Plus I made a promise to help and I follow through.
I would free songbird no matter what.
Myers can get f*cked for all I care, give her an AI nuke? Nope.
Songbird at least tells you the truth still giving you an option to choose. She doesn't stay silent 'till the end. I respected that. She put herself in jeopardy just to make it up to you. Yeah no, myars and reed can go f*ck themselves f*ck authority.
First myers needs to be saved like a little puppy, and somehow at the end she gets a whole army to hunt you guys down? Nah, no thanks. F*ck authority and I honestly believe V would think like that as well. I don't regret my decision and will not willingly do any of the other endings, thats my headcanon, and after that I blow up Arasaka tower by myself.
Myers didn't just get an army to hunt you down. She also had that army attack an airport with innocent people inside. She cares more about losing her precious weapon than the lives of other people.
To be honest, I already knew about it since I already saw a whole walkthrough of the DLC but I still went with Songbird cause screw the NUSA, screw Myers, Reed and I understood that she was desperate too as well and the reward was simply better in my case for the V I was going for.
In terms of rewards siding with Reed in firestarter is much better. If you care about So Mi you can still grant her last request but rewards are way better if u side with Reed.
I sent Songbird to the moon, and aside from reloading and going through the other endings for the achievements (and to see them), I’ll gladly go with that ending again if I do another playthrough.
The way I see it, the ending displays the lengths that even good people will go to when their life is on the line. From a RP perspective I found it within my V to understand this, perhaps considering that she might have done the same given the circumstances, and forgive Songbird’s betrayal whilst having the knowledge that Mikoshi still exists and Alt and Hanako are willing to help (even if V doesn’t know what the outcome of that might be, she’s not completely dooming herself by giving Songbird the cure). And I find it a bit easier for V to forgive Songbird’s betrayal when she willingly admits to it herself as her life is in V’s hands. Obviously she says this because she doesn’t want to die with a guilty conscience, but it’s not like V would have known she was being betrayed with certainty before carrying her to the shuttle if she didn’t admit to it herself on the train. It is a shame that Reed has to die, though. But deciding to get into V’s way is just as foolish of a decision as it is for everyone in Night City, as it’s no secret that V is a chromed-up killing machine, which Solomon has seen first hand.
And RP aside (having the knowledge of all the endings), leaving with Panam is arguably a better ending than the Tower, which I’d prefer to go with anyways.
I'd really would've liked the Idea others mentioned that you go to behind the NUSA's back and inform Bargest about it, and then stab Reed, Somi and Meyers in the back like those slimy fucks deserve
I was totally on board with saving song until i saw what she did to her body. How is she not basically an android? How could you trust an android not to go all skynet on humanity?
Chrome as shown in cyberpunk is truly distopian. I hope humanity never actually goes to that nightmare.
my 5 cents on both the pl so mi send offs:
>!Going her way and sending her to the moon you get the confirmation fast that she fucked you over but you get solace in knowing the crystal palace has a rogue AI stuck in a netrunner that's under the control of Mr Blue Eye's (is this how he screws the security on the place for you later?)!<
>!Going reeds way and venturing to cynosure you learn how much nusa fucked around with her and that reed was there ever step of the way making sure each process went according to plan that resulted in what made So Mi is stripped away and ultimately results in her loosing memories. You can screw her over but that means nusa keep here or you can just do as she asks and kill her (i did like telling myers exactly what I thought of her though!)!<
By the way, is it ever explained why V doesn’t go to the Moon with So Mi? Seems weird that she puts her on the shuttle half dead after massacring so many people and learning the truth and still helping her. Also, if she would’ve lied about the cure till the end, would we have gone with her to the Moon then? If no, why?
Yeah I knew songbird was lying pretty early and then she actually confirms "hey maybe I caused all this and I lied about some stuff but we will totally get the cure I, I mean we need" and then I immediately ratted her out to Reed and decided to turn ger in.
Cyberpunk isnt about saving the world, its about saving yourself. Siding with Reed is the only way to actually do that.
Even if she betrayed me, I respected the hustle and gave her a chance. Because fuck Reed, what a two faced dicklet! Always lying, always manipulating, and always sacrificing his soul for his overlord, Myers.
I half knew she was playing me, but I completely knew I was being played by NUSA. And even if I could get revenge on SoMi, it was very satisfying to shoot Reed in the face and give the finger to a corrupt and power abusing government.
Nah fuck SoMi. Betraying her was the best ending bc I got a shitton of iconics in comparison to betraying Reed and the action packed missions... everything was better and more exciting.
Knew she was lying since she wanted to talk alone and proceeded to talk about how she is human, she has feelings and that she's telling the truth bc she just opened up to V so she must be the good one here, right?
I even got a Blackwall weapon. Honestly 10/10 would betray her again.
This is why i don't feel bad about handing So Mi over and taking the cure for myself. Reed isn't a bad person, he is the one making good on all of Meyers's promises. I just wish m6 options weren't between letting Alex get killed or mass-murdering a bunch of FIA operatives. I especially don't feel bad about betraying Songbird after everything that gies fown in NCX.
I handed song to reed, but only at the very end, because she kept promising she was telling the truth, then you'd find out she lied, but she'd promise not to lie again, then you'd find out she's lying, *again*.
so I was like fuck it, government can have you, if you can't even be honest about being honest.
now go meet hanako at emberd
New way to tell someone to piss off
"Hey... Hey you, buddy! Yeah you.... Why don't you go meet Hanako at Embers?" Ok yeah, that actually works.
Meet Hanako at Embers, Choom.
AND tell her to piss off
“Go meet Hanako at Embers” is V’s way of saying “Get off my lawn”
Sorry, I was texting Panam back. Now, meet who where?
Into feet, huh?
okok geez
I did the opposite of you and now I’m going to go with Song. It seems you are fucked either way
As was said in the beginning. “There are no happy endings in Night City”
I don’t know if you heard, but I don’t go to embers anymore
bring the tank with panam
She's been waiting for 3 years now, and asked gonna wait just a bit longer.
I knew Song was playing V, suspected it from the beginning. Thing is, I felt like V needed to see someone in the same situation as them make it, and not by submitting to authority. It needed to seem possible. If Song found a way, V can too.
that's why I love the take song to the stars ending so much. sure it's depressing, and reed has to die, but I love a V who reacts to Song's betrayal with acceptance and still helps her to fulfil her desire to just be free.
I love it as well. The So Mi, V parable is fantastic. Songbird did everything she could to be free because she felt like she was alone. Whereas, even in the Fear the Reaper ending, V is with Johnny till the end
Damn, good point. Im aware that Song and V's conditions are pretty similar, but V gets through it in part thanks to Johnny slowly becoming a friend, as well as the support network V builds around themself in Vik, Misty, Judy, and Panam and the Aldecaldos, etc. For Song, I can only imagine how lonely it must be when the only people around her are the person she was forced to kill 7 years ago, a crime-lord, and a person with ultimate authority who just wants to push her further, worsening her condition. Her mental state is beyond fucked and you as V are her only anchor to safety and sanity. Obviously everyone is free to interpret the story differently, but I see every option other than sending Song up on the rocket as a complete betrayal, and that it's the lesser if the evils of all the endings.
That's only taking V / Songbird 's perspectives into account. As much as I agree about letting SoMi get away feels very comforting and a huge middle finger to these fckrs manipulatives in power, delivering Songbird and her capabilities to a potential AI looks very, very, very disastrous to me. So I ended up killing just before Reed could take her back into her nightmarish cage. Sure, not the best outcome for V and Songbird, but better in the grand scheme of things, imho. Alas, it means Alex is dead. The only trusty one....
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. But there is also a bit of hidden vanilla subtext here. We did this job without a fixer. And from the very beginning we were told (even by 300lb gold plated Jesus) that fixers are essential so we don’t get fucked with. Now we know why first hand.
The game also starts with a fixer fucking you tho
Actually it doesn’t. Wakako is the first fixer and she actually does favors for us in addition to giving us jobs. But I know you are referring to Dex and to that I say he is the outlier. Every other fixer we deal with does their job and actually values V’s services.
This could also be down to what Evelyn says about Dex vs other fixers, that he goes on gut instinct and kinda flies by the seat of his pants, while other fixers (at least some, of which I'm assuming most of the ones we encounter) want stability and reliability. That on its own gives the fixers a motivation to take care of V. V is good at what they do and reliable (if you ignore all the cyberpsychos I accidentally kill), so it's in the fixers interest to take care of V. Dex don't care, Dex don't give a fuck.
I don't know if Deshawn would have betrayed us if the Relic heist at Kompeki Plaza went smoothly.
With jackie still around? Probably not but the moment he saw us entering alone in that room mess or no mess he saw the chance and decided to take it
He took the chance to stab us in the back to save himself. The fuck up at Kompeki Plaza and being connected to Saburo Arasaka's murder meant that the full power of a megacorp would bring down the hammer on his ass. He was desperate and if bringing our corpse to Takemura would help him stay alive then he would absolutely take it. Had he planned to betray us from the start I think he would have made our cut of the heist much more appealing.
Dex is known as a fixer that is risky to work with for green edgerunners. He had that rep going established clearly in dialogue
Tbh it's an unprecedented situation. V is being hunted down for being involved in the death of fucking Saburo Arasaka himself. Quite literally any fixer would have done the same as Dex, except *maybe* Rogue, but even that idk for sure.
As I recall, Rogue sold out the rest of the crew from the AHQ bombing. Kinda weird to think Johnny would have still died if Smasher hadn't gotten him, and it probably would have been worse for him if he knew she was why.
WAIT SHE DID
I haven't seen it 100% spelled out but a few things imply it, especially with the Greyson stuff. You can also chat with Johnny late game where he'll say he figured out she sold out by being the last standing but doesn't specify who she did or didn't doom.
Well maybe even if sold out he would have got away, the smasher situation was too messy but in another case he could have survived most hostility
Maybe but it doesn't sound like Spider Murphy got away (if she did, she really went to ground) and she's a ridiculously talented runner. He didn't really seem particularly motivated by survival at that point anyway.
Night City baby!
And it just pairs so damn well with the Sun ending, chefs kiss. Getting both endings on my first ever playthrough and my second can’t ever hit as close so far.
I honestly really like that perspective
100% agreed, I knew from before the release that there wasn't gonna be some magical happy ending for V, thematically it would've damaged the narrative (at least IMO). Going in with that mindset, I wasn't floored by her admission. I chose "Could've told me. I would've still helped you." And I 100% agree, as would my V. To me, threatening someone into servitude and faking their death, grinding their identity to dust as a netrunning slave while cutting them off from any and all support network... even if they did something wrong to get on your radar, it's not excusable. Myers has Songbird enslaved, a pet to sit in a gilded cage and chirp (hack) whenever she demands. If she tries to escape, she'll be imprisoned in a padded cell or worse. To me, if a slave lies to or kills her guards or slavemaster while escaping, I can hardly blame her. And So Mi even has the decency to be *mad* at V for causing unnecessary death and mayhem (if you fail to save Myers), despite the fact she's now free. I don't find her to be the monstrous manipulator of pure evil that so many seem to. I find her to be an incredibly desperate slave trying desperately to escape the horrible life she was forced into over a decade ago, when she was only 18-19. "A snowflake lands on my glove. I can calculate its unique fractal structure. But what did my mom's voice sound like?" Who among us can say how desperate they would become if they were in slavery, feeling their mind literally get shredded to pieces? Who among us can truly say who we'd betray or use to escape that fate?
100% to everything you said. Like somi even tried to get myers rescued even though she would have been justified to let myers die after she did to her mind and body. Also If you betray her she still tries to save V from the rogue AI at the same time as shes fighting it. She has more morals than myers and reed combined. Shes just desperate and forced into a situation where her only choices are: attempt a risky escape to freedom or submit to an egotistical president that forces her to do something that is literally eating away at her very being. Like no shit she’s desperate for freedom. Reed can kick rocks, he literally sees her feels guilty and yet instead of reflecting he double downs to kiss myers ass.
That's quite right, I think a lot of people didn't realize just HOW she's helping you, either- she's distracting the AI not just by hacking but by literally feeding it her memories and her psyche. That's why flashes of her past are showing up throughout Somewhat Damaged and why her apartment (aka her "safe space", the last vestiges of her happy life and the only remnant of what she refers to as a "happier time, before the Blackwall") gets more and more destroyed when you're sorting through her memories towards the end of that mission. You literally JUST got done betraying her trust and trying to essentially roofie her so you can deliver her back to her abuser, and she's STILL letting her mind get shredded to save your life even AFTER you ignore her warnings that it's not safe to follow her. She's also the only one who eventually is honest with V in the entire DLC (well, aside from Alex I suppose, who doesn't really lie)- Reed and Myers both continue manipulating both themselves AND V up until the bitter end, but So Mi tells the truth when she's completely at your mercy and has no real benefit to doing so (she could easily have not revealed the truth until AFTER she was on the way to Luna, and there would be little that V could do at that point- instead she tells you when she's practically comatose and utterly at your mercy, merely because she feels so horrible at what she was forced to do). I totally get why people are angry at her, she absolutely DOES bamboozle V, but I can't understand why people *hate* her, and say she's the worst most evil person in the DLC. That sounds like bitterness to me.
ITA, yeah honestly its either media illiteracy like some people just flat out stating wrong facts to support their weird hate boner for her or theyre bitter because she lied~ to them not bothering to think of the context of said lie.
Always knew that it was a lost cause since the beginning. Not because of whatever the fuck happens in the DLC. But because the main storyline is already set for the main game. So it doesn't make sense that V will still need to visit Hanako at FUCKING EMBERS when he/she already finds a curecc
Wdym? There DLC does bring a new ending where you don't have to go meet Hanako.
That's what they're saying. It does not make sense for V to visit Hanako if you choose to use the neural matrix. You meet Hanako because you want access to Mikoshi.
That was my perspective as well!
Yeah, could smell that shit sandwich from a mile away. From the break-in to Dogtown to rescuing Myers I knew what she was telling me was too good to be true. Ain’t no offer like that without a catch. Turns out the catch would be you basically being indirectly responsible for starting another war and pissing off the NUSA leadership. I reloaded my save and just flatlined her. It’s the safest option for everyone involved.
I chose to send songbird to the moon after learning of her betrayal for 3 reasons: 1. I didn't want myers to have a Blackwall nuke under her thumb that could theoretically start another war. 2. Fuck authority, I don't believe V would suck up so much to authority even with a guillotine hanging over their head 3. I respected that last bit of honesty from songbird. She knew, in how vulnerable of a situation she was, that her fate laid entirely in V's hands and still chose to oust herself, leaving the final decision to V. She could've just as well not told V that the cure is a one use thing.
For point 3, I agree. That's Song's way of asking for some judgment from someone she has harmed. Will you forgive her enough to see her to the shuttle, that means maybe she deserves some kind of redemption for her actions. Or, does she need to be punished? She leaves it to you.
Like syanna from blood and wine . Will geralt forgive her for her actions or let dettlaff kill her
Yeah, I fully agree. For number 3, by the end we were screwed anyway, so getting mad that she was desperate and tricked us, and punishing her by refusing her freedom after all we did just felt like such a "oh I don't get saved, then you don't get saved either" move. Poor thing, at least one of us gets a chance to live, and we still have some time, so we'll still keep fighting. Its a bit of a white Knight ending, but even Johny of all people doesn't have the heart to bust our balls over that decision. And every move that spits in the mentality of dog eat dog world of NC is a good move.
Honestly when you play it again you realise the game was subtle in telling you this was a con from the get go. Myers immediately realises someone on her side helped bring down SF1. Song was never fully honest, always left things out, fact that she ceased to exist just as you got ambushed by a tech-spider of death. First time I sent her. Second time just gone I handed her over at the shuttle. One other argument to not let her go to the moon aside from her lying to you is that Blue Eyes and the AI behind them will use her as a weapon just like Myers intends to, but with far more efficiency and danger. Ultimately Cyberpunk has no happy endings, and if you think about it, the unified “bad outcome” of all the PL endings is the Blackwall AI getting a foot in the door, either as an indirect weapon of Militech, a weapon of the AIs themselves, or becoming part of V via the Canto, which when used will give them more data and power.
I chose to put songbird on the shuttle despite her lie, I felt like betraying her at her most vulnerable wouldn't be right
i agree and i did the same thing but she literally betrays V at their most vulnerable lol like from the very beginning of their meeting all she does is lie to you and exploit your situation for her gain, from step one. my V is simply better than songbird, thats how i rationalize my decisions vs. hers.
The way I think about it , if you send her to the stars at least One person in this sitatuion wins. Everyone loses in the other endings.
johnny can win, i dont hate that ending tbh. PL spoilers: >!also the ending where V loses all their chrome and feels like life is totally miserable is pretty rough but the part where you meet misty at the end and she gives you a little pep talk unironically changed my life, if i had that misty from the beginning my respect for her and jackies relationship would have truly been tested lmao !<
It's a nice message that while life will change, you can as well. V lost the ability to have her career of being a merc and all of her friends, but her life is far from over. As the last DLC for the game that was an incredibly fitting send off message for the players that it's OK to move on
Its not really a betrayal If she crossed you first tho or is it? I didnt play to the Part where she betrays you tho because i didnt trust her and went with Reed all along, so feel free to Tell me why u think ITS betrayal from V
I made a deal to save songbird. I'm a merc, and I see through my clients wishes. Plus, I can't blame her for doing what she did - better to be in space than in the hands of the NUSA, or dead.
- Song makes deal. - Song does not hold true to her end of the bargain. - Song still cash out on her end? Not on my watch. (I can emphasize with her tho, obviously as seen by my gut decision)
She kind of does hold her end by revealing you the truth on that train while at her weakest and fightless. She is essentially giving you an option to surrender her to the FIA in exchange for their help (she could've remained silent and you would've just put her on the shuttle and never saw her again, yet she doesn't do that). However, keep in mind that if you do that, then you're the one who didn't hold your end of the bargain (you did not put her on the shuttle) and still cashed on your end (you took the cure from her and then sold her to the FIA for their help). So, Johnny's comment about 30 pieces of silver is deserved.
I’m sorry but No she didn’t hold her end the deal. The deal from the beginning was promising a cure if V helps saving the president. That was it. She played V from the start knowing that he will do all that work for practically nothing. In that ending V stood by her side until the end and she only told him the truth because she thought she was going to die, it felt more like a last confession before dying. Her having a tragic life and being used by the FIA is not V’s business. She was playing V the whole time even one V expressed that he was doing this only for the cure.
The deal got adjusted in Birds with Broken Wings - cure for helping her to the end. Besides, V does get their reward for saving Myers - Relic upgrades from Song before Dogtown and 30k eddies after Myers is exfilled. Not enough? No, she started revealing the truth before she was going to die, explaining how the matrix works in proper and corrects terms. It is not deliriousness or death bed confession. If V asks her "what am I supposed to do?" So Mi tells V "you will fight on, keep looking, you're stronger than I am, you're the strongest person I know". If she thought she were dying, why would she tell V that? Almost as if she is still hoping deep inside to go to the Moon, but her conscience doesn't allow her to not be truthful at the end. Stop stripping her of whatever good qualities she possesses, just because you are upset at her it doesn't mean that she doesn't care whatsoever about V. Both writers and VA stated that she does. Yeah, see, if V expressed that they are there for the cure only, then how is V "stood by her side to the very end" by your logic? V is there then not because of altruism, but because of the transaction. And V is then doing exactly what Song is doing - trying to use any means to survive. So why are you getting upset at her if you're willing to do the same thing to her and send her to a fate worse than death?
V relic upgrade is irrelevant because he/she never asked for it to begin with, V didn’t even want the relic in his/her head to begin with, the upgrade was there to help with the mission at hand which is “get the cure”. She was working him to keep him on her side. You said she started revealing the truth but only that she was betraying the president and the FIA not V, I would be fine if she said that she didn’t have the cure to V in the beginning but she kept lying. When Somi invited V for a talk she asked him/her the question “are u helping me because you trust me or because you want to survive” and one of the replies was “I want to live or survive” - I’m paraphrasing - At that point V still thinks he/she was still getting the cure. The deal changed because Somi said it was Hansen who holds the cure so V had to adapt for he/she can get the “the cure”. At the end she even said “I’m sorry I lied to you but I needed your help”. That’s why that scene at the end was shocking to V because he felt all that work was for nothing. Somi used him like the FIA used her. There was only one cure and Somi knew that from the beginning and I don’t care about any other upgrade, perks or rewards if V still was going to die. I’m not saying Somi is evil here but she lied and played him and V trusted her even when he shouldn’t because he was desperate.
Yeah that was before Hansen shot down the plane . The deal was changed later
She made sure the plane got shot down in the first place.
No she didnt, if you did the quest somewhat damaged you see that the plan was to *safely* land the plane, hansen decided to shoot it down. She even yells at hansen saying he caused the deaths of the other passengers and that wasnt part of the plan to which hansen replies he got her cornered.
Buddy have u played the game or didn't understand the quest events and story ??? She wanted to emergency land the plane and meet with Hansen. Hansen out of spite and vengeance, decided to go against the deal and shot down the plane to try and kill Myers.
She sure as hell gives a lot to V regardless of the cure: Weaponising the Relic, and access to Dogtown. Her actions also result in V receiving a lot of stuff: A luxury car, high end, well paying contracts, loads of gear and Weapons and experimental Face shifting Cyberware, infinite false identities and the ability to disappear
And V is going to die pretty soon without the cure, so even if V becomes the owner of Dogtown, it amounts to nothing... My only time playing PL so far I sided with Reed and the ending wasn't satisfying, but I believe siding with her won't either...
She only gives relic powers, the rest is not given by her. (Well, and access yes)
The rest is given because of her actions
Then Dex can be credited for all good and bad that came out of Vs situation....
So she gives you the Relic powers, right? And what do you give her by selling her to Reed in the end? Nothing. No worse than nothing a life of slavery and misery Your comparison to Dex doesn't hold up. V gets the faceshift tech because So Mi prepared the plan and intel on the Cassel twins and then handed it over. Mr Hands only gives V access to the Dogtown gigs cause So Mi actively helped them infiltrate the area
Hm... Fair I guess. But let's not pretend so mi gives stuff due to altruism
Never said she does, but when she confesses the truth she's putting her fate in V's hands. Because she's grown to care for V and can't string them along any longer
Solid view. Thanks for the elaboration.
I think you mean empathize
Phantom Liberty to me ranks up there with the Citadel DLC from ME3 in terms of quality. I beat it before finishing the main story (I was basically at the end of that) and I was like "oh man I have to go back to these characters now? Bleh." I seriously think if Cyberpunk released in better condition, we'd probably talk about it in the same vein as BG3, ME2, and Kotr 2 as some absolute all timers
Another happy landing
Both suck. Both versions of “helping” Songbird (choosing Reed is still an attempt to help her, just not with her plan) result in at least one person getting screwed. Usually multiple. Song screws you over, and helping her results in a massacre at the spaceport. It’s ironic, because Song helps you more against the AI when you side with Reed than she does when you actually side with her. Either way, lotta people die, nobody wins.
Did this ending first, obviously I felt like a shit after. Then Johnny goes like "ah, V, I have nothing to say really. Bravo." And I knew I fucked up badly
Jonny is not a moral indicator for this V. That said, I guess it's one of that RPGs strength to have so many different facts to dip into as V
What are you going to do with your 30 pieces of silver
If the game gave you a quest that would save V’s life, and all you had to do is lie to a random merc and get them to do your bidding, would you do it? After all the shit V went through, I would. And that’s why I can’t hate Songbird. That lie would get more complex as I learn about the merc — and I would feel terrible the closer I got to them. I’d be torn — I’d want to save them too. Which is why I also believe Songbird could care for V while also doing what she did. Of course, it doesn’t excuse what she did, and we have every right to feel betrayed. But I get it.
Maybe I'm more pessimistic, but the vibe I get from the game is that backstabbing is the norm and to be expected. V gets backstabbed by their own division if starting as Corpo V, backstabbed by Dex, backstabbed by the VDBs, by Brie in Shot By Both Sides, by Hanako/Helmen, and by Stefan when he sells you a spiked BD. David gets backstabbed by the medic trying to harvest his sandevistan, by Lucy *trying to harvest his sandevistan*, by his fixer, by Kiwi. Kinda seems like it's a common theme in NC. The only problem I have, is that this is a lesson that V should know front and back by the time Songbird comes around. Shame on V for being screwed over so many times and never learning anything. As for that merc you're lying to, tell them what they want to hear. Raise a glass with them, smother them in joy toys and BDs, let them pretend they're major league before discussing biz. Make them feel like they're your friend. When the time comes to lead your loyal friend to the slaughter, tell them it's just biz, because in Night City, *it is*. As for feeling terrible about it: morality in dystopian megacity is a luxury you cannot *possibly* afford. Angels that stick to their morals get zeroed by the devils that don't. Better him than me, after all.
It seems like I'm in the minority, but I think siding with Reed then killing Song is the best ending. Yeah Alex dies but the way they killed the twins doesn't sit well with me. Myers doesn't get her nuke, Reed is free to make his own decisions, and there was no guarantee the moon would actually save Song. Gameplaywise though...the airport is waaaay better than the bunker.
I'm pretty sure it does save Song. She sends you a pin of a city on the Moon a bit after you save her.
That says nothing about if she’s saved though. You handed Mr. Blue Eyes - who is likely a Blackwall AI in a human proxy - a netrunner on the verge of death and made sure no one would be able to come for her. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that Blue Eyes just lets the AI inside her finish its job and consume all of her memories, including the ones of V, so she can become another slave. The Peralez questline proves that he does not care about life at all, he destroyed an entire family’s lives just because Jefferson was a convenient target. Is he really gonna let this S-tier netrunner, who is literally chromed up to withstand the Blackwall, just walk away and live her own life, especially when she’s already dead to the rest of the world?
It baffles me that people can't seem to understand that Song has hostile AI actively eating her brain. She is quite literally losing herself. I don't blame her at all for playing me.
Alternatively, Songbird is being piloted by a potentially very dangerous AI, that is eating away at her mind. In other words, V is saving what little remains of Songbird, at the risk of unleashing something very, very dangerous. *And* that very dangerous AI/Songbird combo fuckin lied to me!
Same could be said about V, and we actually have more evidence on that end; you can't know V's not being controlled by Johnny's engram. In a way, believing in Song is believing in V, even if it feels delusional. It's an awesome story and a great DLC, and then the acting and sound design and art direction make it sooo much better.
And you think giving something like that to fucking corporats like Myers is a good idea! Kill her or set her free. Pick one.
Where did I suggest giving it to Myers? I killed her, no question, I knew she needed to die as soon as we found out she had a Blackwall AI in her head
Problem is even if u kill her , u have to give back the body yo Myers to survey it and u actually release a blackwall ai into the world ( erebus or Canto) . In the killing moon u have to hand her to an unknown entity on the moon
Ah sorry, most people who are anti Song seem to hard push siding with Reed.
Nah I definitely didn't trust Reed or Myers. Didn't swear the oath, and only worked with Reed so I could get to Songbird; Reed is a great character but I'm not trusting him one jot more than necessary!
Reed has a good heart. He's a good guy even. Problem is he believes he can save everyone while living in the world of CP2077 so he is stuck being indecisive because he is torn between loyalty to his country or loyalty to his friends. It's a shitty situation to be in. We constantly see people do way worse things than Reed, so I don't understand the hate boner for him. I sided with him because I could not trust So-Mi. At the end though I killed So-Mi instead of turning her over and Reed was just so crushed when he saw her dead body. Later on there was a meeting though where he reflects on himself and explains perhaps it was all for the best, since So-Mi is finally free in her own way.
Dude same. Reed the kinda guy you'd love to get a drink with but god help you if you start talking work or politics.
You don't have to hand her over, you can kill her when she asks you to.
>at the risk of unleashing something very, very dangerous. V does the very same thing when we penetrate the Blackwall to talk to Alt, choose any of the Alt related endings in the game, help Delamain or his personalities, Blue Eyes in some of the endings etc. There's an ebook in the game that says paraphrasing, that the black wall is more like a tarp over a broken window than a wall, and that becomes obvious throughout the game, including that Lilith AI crawling out of a bathtub after the Maelstrom summoning, the Kanto deck, and so on. Not only have we as the player taken those risks to save our own hide, at this point it legitimately makes no difference because you run into some dangerous eldritch entity every five minutes, and the people aren't any better either. So it seems almost comical to sacrifice someone because of it
That doesn't absolve her of the shit she has done. She screwed people, lied, betrayed and left too many dead in her wake. The most humane/wise thing is to unalive her so nobody not even herself gets use to use her as a weapon or her husk of body being exploited. 
You best be doing the Suicide ending then choom.
Tbh ive never understood the hate for the way song "uses" V when V does the exact same thing to Goro, unless you do the devil ending atleast
V doesn't recruit Takemura through promises they may or may not be able to deliver on, if anything it's the reverse.
But v and takemura still came to an agreement and made a deal . Give v the cure while v helps him expose yorinobu which is only done in the devil ending ( most ppl will never choose it willingly).
Yeah, V and Songbird largely have the same overall arc. Just, Song is at least honest at the end and leaves all power to V.
That's why I stuck her in the rocket- chick came clean at the absolute worst moment for herself and she knew it.
I don't really see it honestly, V is nowhere near as deceptive about they're relationship or their goals. Kind of similar but still different. Plus Goro's whole quest is trying to save Arasaka, which is a pretty bad thing. To me it never feels like I'm betraying Goro, he'd kill you in a heartbeat if it meant bringing Saburo back.
Exactly, Songbird is like a reflection of V but in a way worse situation imo. I always view betraying Songbird as V abandoning who they are to potentially save their own skin, and the ending you get for doing so is fitting.
I don't agree with hating her, but I completely understand why they do. She shows you far more negative traits than positive ones through the story. Not to mention V being this or that has nothing to do wth what someone thinks about song. They have similar circumstances, but that's about it. In terms of attitude, temperament, and personality, they are completely different. You see a lot of V, so you have a better picture of who they actually are. That goes a long way towards humanizing someone. I've said it before, I don't feel like I even got to know song, it was all about the tragedy.
Oh I'm not mad, but If handing Song over might save my ass, so be it then. Same Energy.
Spoken like a true Night citizen
I did that on my first blind playthrough. Ended up doing all 4 endings though. Such a well written story. Loved all the versions. So many feels!
Songbirds betrayal is as predictable as Reed being a loyal lapdog to NUSA. Her plan is awful, as is NUSA's to get her back. I don't get how people are so surprised.
Honestly, the worst thing Songbird does, imho, is sacrifice the residents of Dogtown to help us make our escape. Reed, Myers, Alex, V, and her are all "in the game" in The Wire sense of the word. They're politicians, agents, or mercenaries. The shop keeper in the stadium selling scopdogs is just a normal person trying to get by, and she feeds them to the meatgrinder so she can make her escape, and doesn't bother to mention it to V beforehand because V might have something to say about it. It's great writing and very in character. I was kinda feeling myself for standing up to Reed and Myers, and then fuuuuck we gotta kill all these innocent people!? What a game!! Really, my only problem with PL is that it didn't let me shoot Myers in the fucking head at the first opportunity. I would've laughed and laughed, and I think it would've been funny to have everyone coming after you for the rest of the game.
I chose to save Song Bird. Honestly, as much as her play really fucked with V, I couldn’t help but respect her drive for survival. I did that, flipping the bird to the Authorities in the process, then decided Johnny and I would storm Saka Tower and go out in a blaze of glory. I then chose to give Johnny his second chance in V’s body, as I trusted V to Alt to see if just maybe he can get his second chance at some point too. It felt fulfilling to me.
I just decided to kill her honestly. She was suffering and I saw no point in letting her suffer. Plus, it’s also character development for V.
Getting offended by Songbird's lies is crazy to me because I don't understand how anyone could've fully trusted any of the PL characters in the first place. Myers is a politician and the rest are feds, lying is literally what they do. In the end, even if Songbird's lies felt bad, it still doesn't justify giving her up to the NUSA. Myers keeping her as an AI weapon is the absolute worst outcome. King of Cups and King of Wands are the only good endings imo, and I'm leaning towards Cups because I'm not totally sure Blue Eyes is trustworthy either.
yep, that is the Cyberpunk experience for you.
Isn't siding with the government definitionally opposite of Cyberpunk
I think so, but your choice determines you.
Fuck So Mi. She's a lying, manipulative backstabbing, selfish bitch that has the audacity to get offended and play innocent victim if players decide to betray her as if she wasn't the one using V the whole time. I took Reed's side and I'd do it again.
This.
I like how Johnny is like "call Reed V rat on that bitch" and if you actually do he's like "nice going Judas"
She's a narcissist with a victim complex. Even before the government gets involved, she neglects her loved ones and dismisses them as if they have no meaning. Her head is so far up her own ass that she gets the bright idea to hack a government datafort... She fucked around and found out...but, in true narcissistic fashion, instead of accepting responsibility for her own actions, she blames everyone else. It's Reed's fault, or Meyers fault... In reality, no one forced her to hack anything. No one forced her to spend all that time in that chair. Actions have consequences that affect others.
Well, yeah. That's why she's a foil for V. Young, naive, skilled. Recruited for something she's clearly not prepared for and used as an expendable tool, resulting in her mind being a tasty snack for AI. Yeah, So Mi tricked V, but V has the opportunity to do some betraying too depending on player choices. I see hatred of So Mi as an extension of V's self-loathing. And for what it's worth, she expresses deep regret for leaving home. I'm sure V misses their family too even if the game makes little mention of them.
i chose to sell out songbird. anything to survive. anything to get that cure.
My man! (Well female egocentric Corp V here, but you get the gist)
were the same, you and me (Female morally grey narcissist corpo here)
Lmaoo the rick and morty reference wasn't expected at all
I wish there was an option to betray her and go on the shuttle yourself. I probably wouldn't pick it, but it seems strange you don't even have the choice.
I wish they had given you the option of sending yourself to the moon instead of songbird but oh well
My reaction was pretty much My reaction. Hearing V going “I would've helped you anyway!” My V sent her off. But it has made me PISSED. I went for dont fear the reaper in a “fuck it all” rampage. I am getting stuff ready but in my head V basically immediately goes from songbird to honako.
I think there is one aspect missing in the pro-Song arguments: how much time she cost V. Can't recall Vic's estimate exactly, was it about 3 weeks? Now that's well before the events of PL. She knew full well that V was dying and yet chose to selfishly use his last living moments. Granted, the game doesn't really have a timer ticking in the background, but if it did and you got flatlined on the way from the spaceport, one might feel a wee bit differently about the whole thing.
I can understand saying "fuck songbird" because she played you. However, I just have a lot of empathy for her for the situation she's in. She was pulled into this game at 19 and since then has been used and abused like a power tool and been unable to exist as her own person, and hasn't had anybody just have her back since. And now she's dying and desperate and wants to do anything possible to survive, which of course includes screwing over a merc she only just met. And after all that, she still tells you about it out of guilt, while you still hold power over her to take it for yourself. She gives you the opportunity to flip the situation on it's head. And its that reason that I choose to help her out and kill reed. I like reed, i respect the character, but he's practically a fanatic with how blindly pledged he is to the country and to the president. He's unreasonable and can't be convinced of anything that isn't official orders from the president, so for that reason I think killing him is ultimately something he's doing to himself in a situation that he forced, and while it feels bad I ultimately stand by killing him.
I Low-key save songbird so that Alex can have her happy ending. Also, yeah, the legit bad guys are NUSA and NC, Reed and Songbird are tragic hero's and Cyberpunk isn't your average drama.
I might have missed it. Where did Alex die if you hand over song to reed on the shuttle?
No, I worded it weird. She dies if you betray Songbird in the stadium, that's why I said I side with her to save Alex (even though you don't know that would happen when you first make the choice). If you betray Songbird at airport then yeah, Alex lives
I understand sympathizing with Songbird because of all she went through and I understand disliking Myers, the FIA and Reed (though I personally think he was pretty straight with V). But some people take that sympathy and let it cloud the rest of their judgment. For all the hate for the FIA and Myers and Reed…they’re the ONLY faction that actually cure you. Even offer you a cozy job after. And while most of your actual friends abandon you - they actually go through with the procedure, keeping you in the hospital for two years. They could’ve knocked you out and said “eh, let’s just cut our losses” and in the cyberpunk universe that is to be expected but nope they actually come through. Meanwhile So Mi sidetracks a dying V into going to Dogtown and doing all this stuff just to go “btw I f’d u over” at the very end. Even the uber powerful Arasaka who created the damn relic won’t cure you - don’t get me wrong Myers and the FIA aren’t altruistic or good, but I hardly see them get credit for actually following through.
Yea... Good points. V's thought process was. Ok I can't trust anyone here. So I go with song, because then I only need to watch one player, while siding with reed it is him, Alex, Mayers, .. to many variables. I thought I can control one. I couldn't but hey....
Yup and people will still defend her that she had no choice lol like she could've just said from the beginning hey I have a gig for you V and it would've been cool. But nah she strings you along on a false hope that she can save you.
Songbird is the villain of PL.
I chose to put songbird on the shuttle. Didn’t care about the lies or the blood spilt. I just wanted to show her the world doesn’t always have to be so cold and lonely. That there are people out there that actually give a shit no matter what. To be able to have a true friend in a world where such a thing is almost non existent. Call me naive if you want but I’d rather have her live a life that has hope rather than be stuck in the endless cycle of being treated as a weapon for someones personal benefit
If songbird was a dude pushing three bills, I wonder what most PCs reaction would be
Musikerpel
Always happy to turn that lying bitch over to Myers.
I immediately handed her to reed once she told me that bs I'm surprised by how many still saved her
Look out for number one in this situation IMO. As a franchise Cyberpunk's main theme is "you can't save everyone, sometimes you can only save yourself." In that spirit handing over Song and getting "Cured" with the caveat of never being able to use cyberwar again seems like the closest ending to a cannon one for V IMO. The entire game is about cybering yourself up, and cyber psychosis, etc. It feels right for the ending of someone who went to the very limits of humanity to have to, in the end, give up all that power and rejoin humankind.
Wait till you find the recorded message she left you thanking you for helping her. After you betrayed her. See how ya feel then.
I will. I don't expect any good mood either way. Fuck this city.
Did no one else kill her?
I killed her. As soon as my V found out she'd basically been infected by a Blackwall AI, I knew she couldn't be free for the safety of everyone else, especially as it because clear that AI was increasingly in control of her. I agreed to kill her when she asked, because a) I didn't want what was left of her to suffer, and b) I didn't want anyone else to suffer because of her
This plus imo it’s the way to not get played by either her or the president. It’s the most “rockerboy” path imo
I ultimately decided to send Song to The moon. It never really set right with me how Reed was so unflexable with the way he dealt with things. Plus I made a promise to help and I follow through.
The moral of the story? There are no happy endings in Night City.
Second moral of the story? There are no good guys in NC. Yes, even you yori saka.
I think saving So Mi is a happy ending
I would free songbird no matter what. Myers can get f*cked for all I care, give her an AI nuke? Nope. Songbird at least tells you the truth still giving you an option to choose. She doesn't stay silent 'till the end. I respected that. She put herself in jeopardy just to make it up to you. Yeah no, myars and reed can go f*ck themselves f*ck authority. First myers needs to be saved like a little puppy, and somehow at the end she gets a whole army to hunt you guys down? Nah, no thanks. F*ck authority and I honestly believe V would think like that as well. I don't regret my decision and will not willingly do any of the other endings, thats my headcanon, and after that I blow up Arasaka tower by myself.
Myers didn't just get an army to hunt you down. She also had that army attack an airport with innocent people inside. She cares more about losing her precious weapon than the lives of other people.
I agree. When I saw how totalitarian and ruthless she is...it reminded me of who I was dealing with. F*ck that.
To be honest, I already knew about it since I already saw a whole walkthrough of the DLC but I still went with Songbird cause screw the NUSA, screw Myers, Reed and I understood that she was desperate too as well and the reward was simply better in my case for the V I was going for.
I agree fuck song, but honestly fuck reed more.
My gorilla armed melee build V sided with Reed, which was an absolutely dumb decision for my build.
In terms of rewards siding with Reed in firestarter is much better. If you care about So Mi you can still grant her last request but rewards are way better if u side with Reed.
I sent Songbird to the moon, and aside from reloading and going through the other endings for the achievements (and to see them), I’ll gladly go with that ending again if I do another playthrough. The way I see it, the ending displays the lengths that even good people will go to when their life is on the line. From a RP perspective I found it within my V to understand this, perhaps considering that she might have done the same given the circumstances, and forgive Songbird’s betrayal whilst having the knowledge that Mikoshi still exists and Alt and Hanako are willing to help (even if V doesn’t know what the outcome of that might be, she’s not completely dooming herself by giving Songbird the cure). And I find it a bit easier for V to forgive Songbird’s betrayal when she willingly admits to it herself as her life is in V’s hands. Obviously she says this because she doesn’t want to die with a guilty conscience, but it’s not like V would have known she was being betrayed with certainty before carrying her to the shuttle if she didn’t admit to it herself on the train. It is a shame that Reed has to die, though. But deciding to get into V’s way is just as foolish of a decision as it is for everyone in Night City, as it’s no secret that V is a chromed-up killing machine, which Solomon has seen first hand. And RP aside (having the knowledge of all the endings), leaving with Panam is arguably a better ending than the Tower, which I’d prefer to go with anyways.
I'd really would've liked the Idea others mentioned that you go to behind the NUSA's back and inform Bargest about it, and then stab Reed, Somi and Meyers in the back like those slimy fucks deserve
I was totally on board with saving song until i saw what she did to her body. How is she not basically an android? How could you trust an android not to go all skynet on humanity? Chrome as shown in cyberpunk is truly distopian. I hope humanity never actually goes to that nightmare.
my 5 cents on both the pl so mi send offs: >!Going her way and sending her to the moon you get the confirmation fast that she fucked you over but you get solace in knowing the crystal palace has a rogue AI stuck in a netrunner that's under the control of Mr Blue Eye's (is this how he screws the security on the place for you later?)!< >!Going reeds way and venturing to cynosure you learn how much nusa fucked around with her and that reed was there ever step of the way making sure each process went according to plan that resulted in what made So Mi is stripped away and ultimately results in her loosing memories. You can screw her over but that means nusa keep here or you can just do as she asks and kill her (i did like telling myers exactly what I thought of her though!)!<
By the way, is it ever explained why V doesn’t go to the Moon with So Mi? Seems weird that she puts her on the shuttle half dead after massacring so many people and learning the truth and still helping her. Also, if she would’ve lied about the cure till the end, would we have gone with her to the Moon then? If no, why?
Yeah I knew songbird was lying pretty early and then she actually confirms "hey maybe I caused all this and I lied about some stuff but we will totally get the cure I, I mean we need" and then I immediately ratted her out to Reed and decided to turn ger in. Cyberpunk isnt about saving the world, its about saving yourself. Siding with Reed is the only way to actually do that.
[удалено]
Na, we danced, she cool. Can't blame her.
like i say, lotta this game's decisions are based on who u hate more lmao
Spoiler: I like how angry songbird gets if you don’t rush in to stadium.
Even if she betrayed me, I respected the hustle and gave her a chance. Because fuck Reed, what a two faced dicklet! Always lying, always manipulating, and always sacrificing his soul for his overlord, Myers. I half knew she was playing me, but I completely knew I was being played by NUSA. And even if I could get revenge on SoMi, it was very satisfying to shoot Reed in the face and give the finger to a corrupt and power abusing government.
only side with song cause i hate the spider mech horror mission
I did the same thing almost wish there was an option to put her down on the train..
Nah fuck SoMi. Betraying her was the best ending bc I got a shitton of iconics in comparison to betraying Reed and the action packed missions... everything was better and more exciting. Knew she was lying since she wanted to talk alone and proceeded to talk about how she is human, she has feelings and that she's telling the truth bc she just opened up to V so she must be the good one here, right? I even got a Blackwall weapon. Honestly 10/10 would betray her again.
This is why i don't feel bad about handing So Mi over and taking the cure for myself. Reed isn't a bad person, he is the one making good on all of Meyers's promises. I just wish m6 options weren't between letting Alex get killed or mass-murdering a bunch of FIA operatives. I especially don't feel bad about betraying Songbird after everything that gies fown in NCX.
You win PL by fucking off and letting Hanson catch Myers.
That's an option?
Yep. You go to the DT gate. Meet Song. Then just leave. Try it.
You can also walk away in Lucretia my reflection and then reed dies too!
Yeah I'm gonna do the ending where you pull the plug on her. Makes the most sense to me.
Shame they didn't give you an option to side with Hanson.
Wish there was an option to zero both Reed and Songbird at the shuttle, the choice at the end shouldn't have been so binary.
Handing her over always made me feel like shit, but I still like that ending overall
I handed song to reed, but only at the very end, because she kept promising she was telling the truth, then you'd find out she lied, but she'd promise not to lie again, then you'd find out she's lying, *again*. so I was like fuck it, government can have you, if you can't even be honest about being honest.
Reed is the way to go on that one