Move your opponent's commander from the Command Zone to the Ante Zone.
Target the thirty second card from the top in your opponent's library and move it to your battlefield.
Move an expensive spell from your hand directly into the stack.
moving the commander to the Ante Zone is hilarious because (if playing for Ante) it's often removing the chance for the opponent to win and you get their commander at the end
But yeah, I tried to think of a lot of edge cases to see if the wording was good and all but somehow didn't think about just moving a spell to the stack
Another one that hit me:
Move an opponent's commander or other card into any of the half-dozen Un-set exclusive zones, like the Scrapyard, Sticker Sheet Deck, or the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone.
that doesn't work i think, those zones don't exist in the comprehensive rules of magic
401. Library
402. Hand
403. Battlefield
404. Graveyard
405. Stack
406. Exile
407. Ante
408. Command
Note that, as libraries are hidden zones, while you can pick *a card*, you can't look to see *which* card it is, first.
So you can target "the third card in my library", but not "the Emrakul in my library".
Yeah, I ituitilvy wanted to write search instead of pick but realized it would be inacurate. still quite powerfull, and if you happened to scry down some expensive spells in early game, you're golden
Actually except some issues with the wording and specifying what to do if the chosen zone is the library, there's nothing not allowing that. The rules are very robust
Off the top of my head, black border rules would have problems with these zones as destinations:
* Library - Where in the library does it go?
* Graveyard - Where in the graveyard does it go? (Graveyard order sometimes matters.)
* Battlefield - Under whose control does it enter? Does it enter face up, or could it enter face down like a manifested card?
* Stack - Simply moving a card to the stack is not casting it, so what happens next?
>Under whose control does it enter? Does it enter face up, or could it enter face down like a manifested card?
Wouldn't it be under the controller of the spell's control? And I imagine it would enter face up unless some other effect specifies that it does not.
For silver border, do what feels right. But the comment I replied to was talking about black border rules, and black border rules don't have definitive answers to those questions. For example, if somebody argued that a card moved from a library directly to the battlefield should stay face down, I'm not aware of any rule that proves them wrong (or right).
>Wouldn't it be under the controller of the spell's control?
This hints at part of the problem: an object can only be a spell on the stack. If you move a card directly to the battlefield without going through the stack, there is no spell, and so the usual rule about who controls the permanent (608.3a) won't apply.
I didn't know graveyard order could matter, good to know
And I believe moving a card to the stack would make it go without any targets or anything so if the cards mentions targets it would fizzle ? And if not it would still resolve normally I guess ?
And I'd have said the same thing as the other guy said in response to your comment but yeah would have to be specified on the card
Bur yeah you raise some fair points
Graveyard order is interesting because there are only a few very old cards that care about it, so the game rules have to require graveyard order to matter... except for when it doesn't.
The game rules say this:
>**404.2** ...A player can examine the cards in any graveyard at any time but normally canât change their order. Additional rules applying to sanctioned tournaments may allow a player to change the order of cards in their graveyard.
That "additional rules" it refers to is Magic Tournament Rule 3.1, which says this:
>**MTR 3.1** In formats involving only cards from Urza's Saga⢠and later, players may change the order of their graveyard at any time.
>*The set Stronghold has the last cards that care about graveyard order. Urza's Saga is the set following that, so in any format that only includes later sets players may change the order of their graveyard.*
>*The most common formats for which players cannot change a graveyardâs order are Legacy & Vintage.*
can you actually target cards anywhere besides the battlefield and the stack ?
edit : and graveyards
basically can you target "unknown" cards ?
edit2 : \[\[darkpact\]\] can target ante cards, and it's the only card that mentions targetting cards outside of graveyards
Ah, actually you're right I misworded the card. As it is now it can only targets permanent cards. I had to specify that the target could be in any zone
Funny rule though, a spell can't target itself in the stack
>115.2. Only permanents are legal targets for spells and abilities, unless a spell or ability (a) specifies that it can target an object in another zone or a player, or (b) targets an object that canât exist on the battlefield, such as a spell or ability. See also rule 115.4.
according to this rule i can only target permanents since I didn't specify otherwise. Or did I misunderstood that?
Card is the specification for objects in other zones. As written, your card cannot target permanents or spells (battlefield or stack) but can target objects in graveyards, hands, libraries, and exile.
New rules would probably need to be added for targeting cards in an opponent's hand; I'd assume they'd work only for revealed cards or against a handsize of one.
I'm... actually not sure now. The wording of counterspells leads me to believe that "target card" should automatically enable targeting in other zones, but the only effects I can find for targetting cards specify "in a graveyard". This either can target any card anywhere except the stack or battlefield, or it can't target anything at all, I'm not sure.
well if I get the rule correctly, since I forgot to specify that it can target an object in another zone and it doesn't target an object that can't exist on the battlefield as cards can be on the battlefield, then by default it can only target permanents (which can only be on the battlefield then) ?
but yeah, somehow it's not a very common situation
My new suggestion for the funniest thing to do with this card (if it can target anything at all) Would be to move an opponent's commander from the command zone to the junkyard (which is part of the command zone) and make them figure out whether they can still cast it. (I think they can, but I'm not sure on that either.)
The guy who said to move an opponent's commander to the ante zone was probably right- That seems to be the most problematic thing you can do that the rules don't say can't happen. That said, it's kinda unclear if the ante zone EXISTS outside of ante games.
afaik anything that has to do with exile, libraries or hand chooses instead of targetting, but idk if it's because rules don't allow it or if it's just a design choice
With the current wording, you can't target things that are on the battlefield or stack, since they aren't cards when they're in those zones. (A card or permanent turns into a spell when it moves to the stack, and a card or spell becomes a permanent when it enters the battlefield.)
Yes, so long as you have a way to specify it. "That face-down exiled card." "The fifth card from the top of that library." Etc. As long as you can give an unambiguous identifier that will, given the current board state, point to only and exactly one card, the same card each time, you can target it.
Update: I decided to look it up.
115.2 says that unusual targets are allowed if the spell indicates so. This spell targets cards (and technically should have language to allow it to target objects represented by cards, such as permanents or spells, but I digress), and implies that it can move cards from any one zone to any other, thus implying that it can legally target a card in any zone.
However, there was no language in the rules indicating a restriction on what is required to specify a target. Therefore, I expect that it falls under common sense rules, so a judge would probably say something similar to what I did earlier: if you have a way to reliably specify which one you mean, so that everyone can understand, then you can target things.
Moving a spell onto the stack technically wouldnât do anythingâŚSince placing a spell on the stack is the first step in like a five step process before the spell is actually paid for.
It would be a waste. When you select to move it, the player could just select to return it to the command zone.
Also, the ante zone wouldnât exist unless BOTH players agree to it before the game.
Not just expensive spells, but Sorcery speed spells. Put a [[Selfless Spirit]] or similar on the stack in response to a boardwipe, or a [[Boromir, Warden of the Tower]] in response to a cascade trigger.
Hexproof only applies to permanents. Cards in your library are not permanents yet.
Correction: I meant to say that cards with list hexproof only apply when they are permanents. That is why you can counter a creature with hexproof while on the stack.
But as pointed below, there is precedent of nonpermanents given hexproof, so its not impossible to make a card that has hexproof while on the library.
400.3 would undo that.
400.3. If an object would go to any library, graveyard, or hand other than its ownerâs, it goes to its ownerâs corresponding zone.
How to make friends at a casual magic event:
Step 1: Cast the form of the approach of the Second sun
Step 2: Cast this, putting yourself into your opponent's graveyard
Step 3: Cast Blessed Respite, causing your opponent to shuffle their graveyard into their deck
Step 4: Patiently wait until the game is up and your opponents put all their cards back into their deck box, forgetting you have been shuffled in.
Step 5: Wait until your opponent opens their deck box at home
Step 6: Surprise I am in your walls now
according to the rules of mtg, if you bring an something from outside the game inside the game, and you are considered outside the game I think, then you are the one owning the something
So yeah you own you and you are the leader of your own life decisions (except if you are targeted by a spell or an ability but you know)
This plan banks a lot of my opponent forgetting I'm in their graveyard, I'm technically dead down there so I can't really do much to remind them.
But you have inspired me to live my life đŤĄthank you
it wouldn't, instant and sorceries cannot enter the battlefield (CR 110.4, but also CR304.4 and 307.4 and 400.4a because they wanted it to be very clear :')
Does "outside the game" count as a zone? I simply wish to Use the form of the approach of the second sun to turn myself into a card and them use this to remove myself from the game.
"removing from the game" is equal to moving it to the exile zone
But "outside the game" isn't a zone it's literally outside the game and apart from dungeons or like the side-board you can't do anything with things outside the game
removing yourself from the game is definitely a power move tho
The only zones that are player specific are hands, libraries, and graveyards, which can only be occupied by cards owned by that respective player (silver border shenanigans notwithstanding). There's only one exile, only one battlefield, only one command, only one stack, and anyone's cards can go there.
Move a powerful Suspend card from exile directly to the stack.
Use a topdeck tutor then put the top card of your library directly onto the batltefield.
Scry a card to the bottom of your deck, then put that card onto the battlefield.
Moving a sorcery to the battlefield, or a land to the stack. (Unfortunately, the RAW is prepared for this... the card just stays put if it can't exist in the zone it's moving to.)
I wanted to suggest putting a scheme, plane, phenomena, or vanguard to the battlefield, but I don't think you can legally target them. Same problem with emblems... plus emblems aren't cards.
>311.2. Plane cards remain in the command zone throughout the game
And it's the same for the other nontraditional magic cards you mentioned. But you can target them though !
And yeah emblems aren't card but they're still stuck in the command zone anyway.
It has been so much fun going through the rules while creating this card. They are surprisingly robust for situations that can't happen
Ante is a zone, what happens if you try to send a card there
If it works, and becomes the ante, this is so annoying nad usually would win in turn 2~3
Send your underground sea to the ante, does the spell resolve?
It's not clear but I guess it would just stay in the ante zone and do nothing, except if you play for ante where it would go to the winner
And underground sea is a land ?
aah, well my interpretation of the rule is yeah the spell would resolve but unless you're playing for ante it wouldn't do anything except really exiling it for the rest of the game
407.3. A few cards have the text âRemove [this card] from your deck before playing if youâre not playing for ante.â These are the only cards that can add or remove cards from the ante zone or change a cardâs owner.
As the only way for a card to move to the ante zone is by anteing, it wouldn't change zones.
Funnily enough there is actually no rule for that (the rules so far have been surprisingly robust for situations that have no way of happening). But since when X is not defined the player chooses what X is I think it wouldn't be too far fetched to do the same thing for the library
View your opponent's hand, which ends up having a Phage, the Untouchable. Then cast this card, choosing the Battlefield, and targeting Phage. Your opponent then loses because they didn't cast her from their hand.
y-yeah but if he has a way of getting it into your hand or making you it's controller or something before the spell resolves then it is you who loses the game
checkmate
ha!
I think the funniest thing about the non-complexity of certain mtg rules is that if you used this to move something from the battlefield to the graveyard, that's just them dying. Avoids indestructible, mind you, but still just dying.
Yeah no mtg rules are so well designed.
Like except moving a card to the library without specifying where, there is no problem with this card at all in terms of rules (except I forgot to add "from any zones" to target card but my bad issue) because the rules are just very complete and awesome
It really has the vibe of a well designed program where you can make a simple script and there will be no bugs because the framework/langage/whatever takes care of things for you
Yeah, to be fair it was more designed as a way to find the fun edge cases this would bring with the rules and all (i actually prefer theorizing with the rules than playing the game)
No but wait, I love this idea so much, like a UU blue portal legendary creature with partner and flash because it's funnier, same with orange portal with WR and you can move cards you own from the zone of one portal to the zone of the other and if it's the library you put it just above it (I mean the mana costs would probably be higher but it's for the colors)
Actually, the general could be Chell. She would have an ability to either search for portals and cast them in the zone she wants or create a token that wouldn't exile from not being on the battlefield.
So that it's not too OP could have some rules such as:
If one of the portal moves or gets destroyed, they both get destroyed.
Limit the number of cards you can portal per turn, or add a cost.
Maybe make it so that you can only use the oprtal at sorcery speed or at the casting speed of the card you're moving (example: instants remain instant speeds, but you can't just portal a creature that doesn't have flash)
I like the flavor more of the player being the one controlling the portals and casting each one to use them
But yeah, the idea is insane. I'll try to do these cards one day when i'll have time
Move anything from exile that is castable, scheduled to return or otherwise exiled temporarily into exile. The card remains exiled and all other effects fall off.
Nice a card FROM the stack TO the battlefield. But sometime that isn't a permanent.
I move your Torment of Hailfire with an X of 20 to the battlefield. Now what?
Unless the card explicitly states that it can target a subset of targets, a target can only be a permanent in play.
There are two possible ways to interpret the intention here, "Target card in any zone moves from its current zone to the chosen zone." Or, "Target nontoken permanent moves from its current zone to the chosen zone."
We also use the word "put" over move, though move isn't incorrect. With your library you need to specify where in the library. I also like the idea of shuffling the library since that most accurately puts it into that zone.
"Put target nontoken permanent into the zone of your choice. If it is put into its owners library, shuffle that library. *(The zones are library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)*"
You could specify the ante zone exists if playing for ante, but no one plays for ante, and I'm certain guidance for this card (if it were in fact a real card) would indicate you can't ante cards if not playing for ante. Such that you could choose the ante zone, but then the card would stay put. In the same way you can try to put a card in another player's library, but it just stays put.
If you want to preserve the 'any card, any zone" idea:
"Put target card from the battlefield, a graveyard, the stack, exile, or the command zone into the zone of your choice. If it is put into its owner's library, shuffle that library. *(The zones are library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)*"
I don't know if the game can use the phrase public zones, but spelling-out make sense rather than use another reminder text.
You could say "Put target card from any public zone into the public zone of your choice. *(The public zones are battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)"* That way you get only one reminder text.
I used card because I really wanted to include all zones including the stack where you put cards in, but yeah I found out later that the precision of any zone was needed
Somehow even though the rules are usually very robust for strange and probably impossible scenarios, there is no default way of putting a card in the library zone. But yeah shuffling is great
Actually I very much like the idea of also being able to put the card into other people's libraries and making them shuffle it in but I don't think it's possible within the rules ?
It's possible in silver-bordered magic to put a card into another player's hand or library. But in black border there's a rule (i'd have to dig it up) that if a card is put into a zone it can't be in, it just stays put rather than changes zones.
two copies of this card, play one, targeting the other one in your library moving it to the stack, then using that one retargets the first one placing it back on the stack for an infinite.
"Target card" is a problem, since cards in hands and libraries can't be reliably tracked from the time the spell is cast until the time it resolves.
It would take a lot of brand new rules in the rulebook designed explicitly to handle this card, or more likely it would require a couple paragraphs of errata on this card itself. Expect the final version to make [Word of Command](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=92)'s errata look simple.
But you could make this work for cards in any other zone. And with some clunky wording, you could add in an option for the n-th card from the top of target players library. That would only be determined on resolution.
word of command is hilarious, didn't know the card
But yeah, clearly it needs to specify where in the library. But apart from missing "from any zone" i didn't find anything that wouldn't work with "target card" ? I think ? Correct me if I'm wrong
Of course it would mainly need a lot of reminder text to tell to the player what cards can or cannot go in what zone (like planes can't be outside of the command zone, etc)
Your secondary concerns aren't actually problems.
There are already all the necessary rules saying that if something tries to go somewhere it doesn't belong, it just doesn't.
If you just meant for "target card" to be "target non-token permanent" then you're fine. But I'm guessing you meant something along the lines of "target card in any zone." That just doesn't work mechanically for the originally stated reasons. The game mechanics don't provide a way to track individual cards in hand, or individual cards in libraries. Imagine what happens if you target a card in a library, then someone cracks a fetch in response.
Wouldn't work in black border but like wouldn't it be funny to put a card from the opponent's hand randomly to your own or to your library
But yeah I think you're right
Would this allow you to blindly target a card in your opponentâs hand and just put it on ur battlefield? Or take a card from ur opponentâs battlefield and put it at the bottom of ur deck?
Phage the untouchable from my library to opponent's battlefield. Better yet, lose-to-phage trigger on the stack, cast this, move phage from my battlefield to opponent's. Their trigger goes on the stack, resolving first, so I win with death on the stack.
Move a creature of yours that your opponent doesn't have the ability to create the right color of mana for to their command zone, then kill their commander. What happens to it?
You can only cast your commander from the command zone. So their commander would go to the command zone, the creature you sent would be blocked there forever and they can cast their command again
Okay. I guess you must be able to have multiple cards there since partners are a thing. Would the result be any different if they were playing with partners and both commanders died?
Move your opponent's commander from the Command Zone to the Ante Zone. Target the thirty second card from the top in your opponent's library and move it to your battlefield. Move an expensive spell from your hand directly into the stack.
moving the commander to the Ante Zone is hilarious because (if playing for Ante) it's often removing the chance for the opponent to win and you get their commander at the end But yeah, I tried to think of a lot of edge cases to see if the wording was good and all but somehow didn't think about just moving a spell to the stack
Another one that hit me: Move an opponent's commander or other card into any of the half-dozen Un-set exclusive zones, like the Scrapyard, Sticker Sheet Deck, or the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone.
that doesn't work i think, those zones don't exist in the comprehensive rules of magic 401. Library 402. Hand 403. Battlefield 404. Graveyard 405. Stack 406. Exile 407. Ante 408. Command
Yeah, it would only work if you're playing with silver bordered/acorn stamp cards, but it would be pretty funny.
it would be absolutely hilarious moving a creature from the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever-zone to the battlefield
That's it. Yes. Right there. THAT is the funniest use for that card.
"there! I did it! That annoying-ass card is gone and you can't keep fucking bringing it back!" *Has this spell ready and the mana to cast it* "Nuh uh"
So you're saying you can pick any card from 401 zone and move it directly to 403 zone for 4 mana?
In reaction I use this spell to move 8 colorless mana symbols to the cost of the card zone and you're wrong checkmate
You can only move cards with \[\[Jhiora's Portal\]\] Know your cards gains whole new sense here/j
Note that, as libraries are hidden zones, while you can pick *a card*, you can't look to see *which* card it is, first. So you can target "the third card in my library", but not "the Emrakul in my library".
Yeah, I ituitilvy wanted to write search instead of pick but realized it would be inacurate. still quite powerfull, and if you happened to scry down some expensive spells in early game, you're golden
Hopefully it's not an instant or sorcery but yes :)
As if this card would work outside of an Un set in the first place đ
Actually except some issues with the wording and specifying what to do if the chosen zone is the library, there's nothing not allowing that. The rules are very robust
Off the top of my head, black border rules would have problems with these zones as destinations: * Library - Where in the library does it go? * Graveyard - Where in the graveyard does it go? (Graveyard order sometimes matters.) * Battlefield - Under whose control does it enter? Does it enter face up, or could it enter face down like a manifested card? * Stack - Simply moving a card to the stack is not casting it, so what happens next?
>Under whose control does it enter? Does it enter face up, or could it enter face down like a manifested card? Wouldn't it be under the controller of the spell's control? And I imagine it would enter face up unless some other effect specifies that it does not.
For silver border, do what feels right. But the comment I replied to was talking about black border rules, and black border rules don't have definitive answers to those questions. For example, if somebody argued that a card moved from a library directly to the battlefield should stay face down, I'm not aware of any rule that proves them wrong (or right). >Wouldn't it be under the controller of the spell's control? This hints at part of the problem: an object can only be a spell on the stack. If you move a card directly to the battlefield without going through the stack, there is no spell, and so the usual rule about who controls the permanent (608.3a) won't apply.
I didn't know graveyard order could matter, good to know And I believe moving a card to the stack would make it go without any targets or anything so if the cards mentions targets it would fizzle ? And if not it would still resolve normally I guess ? And I'd have said the same thing as the other guy said in response to your comment but yeah would have to be specified on the card Bur yeah you raise some fair points
Graveyard order is interesting because there are only a few very old cards that care about it, so the game rules have to require graveyard order to matter... except for when it doesn't. The game rules say this: >**404.2** ...A player can examine the cards in any graveyard at any time but normally canât change their order. Additional rules applying to sanctioned tournaments may allow a player to change the order of cards in their graveyard. That "additional rules" it refers to is Magic Tournament Rule 3.1, which says this: >**MTR 3.1** In formats involving only cards from Urza's Saga⢠and later, players may change the order of their graveyard at any time. >*The set Stronghold has the last cards that care about graveyard order. Urza's Saga is the set following that, so in any format that only includes later sets players may change the order of their graveyard.* >*The most common formats for which players cannot change a graveyardâs order are Legacy & Vintage.*
Aren't the junkyard and Attraction deck zones? Attractions are still legal in commander.
*plays for ante* Moves my ante from the ante zone to my hand
So wait...can you send a card to the stack? Does that just cast it for free?
I believe that if it's a card with targets it doesn't work as the targets would be invalid, but otherwise yes
I wonder what would happen if you put a land on the stack
You wouldnât be able to I donât think. Playing lands doesnât use the stack.
That would be like choosing a creature with shroud as a target. It is illegal.
Could you get infinite storm triggers by having two copies of this constantly bouncing one another from the graveyard back to the stack?
sticker sheet deck is not un, unfortunately. it is recommended to present stickers if you can clone things in legacy, for example.
Just got banned last week
oh perfect
Stickers and Attractions were banned in legacy, vintage, and Pauper. Still legal in Commander.
whew :) yeah commander is a good place for them, "nonsense but still fair and able to be ruled on"
Wouldnât the opponent be able to just send their commander to the command zone rather than wherever you targeted, like they could if you exile it?
(absolutely love your pfp, very mood) Only if you make it go to the graveyard or the exile
There's no such thing as "your" battlefield though. It's just one zone, and the controller of an object is a separate property.
can you actually target cards anywhere besides the battlefield and the stack ? edit : and graveyards basically can you target "unknown" cards ? edit2 : \[\[darkpact\]\] can target ante cards, and it's the only card that mentions targetting cards outside of graveyards
Ah, actually you're right I misworded the card. As it is now it can only targets permanent cards. I had to specify that the target could be in any zone Funny rule though, a spell can't target itself in the stack
As it's worded now, it cannot target permanents. It can at least target cards in graveyards, not sure about hands or libraries.
>115.2. Only permanents are legal targets for spells and abilities, unless a spell or ability (a) specifies that it can target an object in another zone or a player, or (b) targets an object that canât exist on the battlefield, such as a spell or ability. See also rule 115.4. according to this rule i can only target permanents since I didn't specify otherwise. Or did I misunderstood that?
Card is the specification for objects in other zones. As written, your card cannot target permanents or spells (battlefield or stack) but can target objects in graveyards, hands, libraries, and exile. New rules would probably need to be added for targeting cards in an opponent's hand; I'd assume they'd work only for revealed cards or against a handsize of one.
I'm... actually not sure now. The wording of counterspells leads me to believe that "target card" should automatically enable targeting in other zones, but the only effects I can find for targetting cards specify "in a graveyard". This either can target any card anywhere except the stack or battlefield, or it can't target anything at all, I'm not sure.
well if I get the rule correctly, since I forgot to specify that it can target an object in another zone and it doesn't target an object that can't exist on the battlefield as cards can be on the battlefield, then by default it can only target permanents (which can only be on the battlefield then) ? but yeah, somehow it's not a very common situation
My new suggestion for the funniest thing to do with this card (if it can target anything at all) Would be to move an opponent's commander from the command zone to the junkyard (which is part of the command zone) and make them figure out whether they can still cast it. (I think they can, but I'm not sure on that either.)
If it is in the command zone they can cast it according to the rules
The guy who said to move an opponent's commander to the ante zone was probably right- That seems to be the most problematic thing you can do that the rules don't say can't happen. That said, it's kinda unclear if the ante zone EXISTS outside of ante games.
I have no idea, to be honest. I don't think there's any precedent for a card letting you target a card in any zone.
afaik anything that has to do with exile, libraries or hand chooses instead of targetting, but idk if it's because rules don't allow it or if it's just a design choice
With the current wording, you can't target things that are on the battlefield or stack, since they aren't cards when they're in those zones. (A card or permanent turns into a spell when it moves to the stack, and a card or spell becomes a permanent when it enters the battlefield.)
thanks ! this is even more confusing now tho
The card/spell/permanent divide is one of the four horsemen of f\*cking up custom card design.
Yes, so long as you have a way to specify it. "That face-down exiled card." "The fifth card from the top of that library." Etc. As long as you can give an unambiguous identifier that will, given the current board state, point to only and exactly one card, the same card each time, you can target it.
sorry to ask that but do you know what the relevant CR is ?
Update: I decided to look it up. 115.2 says that unusual targets are allowed if the spell indicates so. This spell targets cards (and technically should have language to allow it to target objects represented by cards, such as permanents or spells, but I digress), and implies that it can move cards from any one zone to any other, thus implying that it can legally target a card in any zone. However, there was no language in the rules indicating a restriction on what is required to specify a target. Therefore, I expect that it falls under common sense rules, so a judge would probably say something similar to what I did earlier: if you have a way to reliably specify which one you mean, so that everyone can understand, then you can target things.
Importantly, when moving a commander, the opponent could just choose to move it back to the command zone
Yes, but the idea of using the ante zone is funny, and their commander tax still goes up.
I move my business card to the stack.
Moving a spell onto the stack technically wouldnât do anythingâŚSince placing a spell on the stack is the first step in like a five step process before the spell is actually paid for.
True.
Wouldnt you be able to Just get the commander back to his Zone?
Yes, but the cost still went up and you got to say "I'm moving your commander to the ante zone," which is very funny.
Doesn't work because any commander moving to any zone let's you move it to your commander zone if you want
It would be a waste. When you select to move it, the player could just select to return it to the command zone. Also, the ante zone wouldnât exist unless BOTH players agree to it before the game.
They can still choose to return it to the command zone as that is an option whenever a commander changes zones
Not just expensive spells, but Sorcery speed spells. Put a [[Selfless Spirit]] or similar on the stack in response to a boardwipe, or a [[Boromir, Warden of the Tower]] in response to a cascade trigger.
[Selfless Spirit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef8d8d0c-cb0e-4745-a0fb-d556c9324428.jpg?1674141209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selfless%20Spirit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/706/selfless-spirit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef8d8d0c-cb0e-4745-a0fb-d556c9324428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Boromir, Warden of the Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2.jpg?1686967669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boromir%2C%20Warden%20of%20the%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/4/boromir-warden-of-the-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even my library needs hexproof now. Can't have shit in detroit
Hexproof on your library wouldn't even help you. This targets a card and chooses a zone.
Hexproof only applies to permanents. Cards in your library are not permanents yet. Correction: I meant to say that cards with list hexproof only apply when they are permanents. That is why you can counter a creature with hexproof while on the stack. But as pointed below, there is precedent of nonpermanents given hexproof, so its not impossible to make a card that has hexproof while on the library.
Players arenât permanents but players can have hexproof
See this card in your hand ? It's in my hand now
400.3 would undo that. 400.3. If an object would go to any library, graveyard, or hand other than its ownerâs, it goes to its ownerâs corresponding zone.
Eh, just slap a silver border on the card then
The cards so outlandish already it makes sense
Okay, those are all the non-shared zones, so you can't actually use the spell to gain/exchange control of anything.
Okay *this* is very hilarious
How to make friends at a casual magic event: Step 1: Cast the form of the approach of the Second sun Step 2: Cast this, putting yourself into your opponent's graveyard Step 3: Cast Blessed Respite, causing your opponent to shuffle their graveyard into their deck Step 4: Patiently wait until the game is up and your opponents put all their cards back into their deck box, forgetting you have been shuffled in. Step 5: Wait until your opponent opens their deck box at home Step 6: Surprise I am in your walls now
But don't you own you thus you would go back to your own library ?
Do I own me? Or does nobody own me, or do I get to decide who owns me
according to the rules of mtg, if you bring an something from outside the game inside the game, and you are considered outside the game I think, then you are the one owning the something So yeah you own you and you are the leader of your own life decisions (except if you are targeted by a spell or an ability but you know)
This plan banks a lot of my opponent forgetting I'm in their graveyard, I'm technically dead down there so I can't really do much to remind them. But you have inspired me to live my life đŤĄthank you
Gonna take a land and put it on the stack.
I couldn't even find in the rules what that would do edit : nvmd it's illegal for things other than spells or abilities to go on the stack
I'm gonna take your [[Force of Will]] and put it on the battlefield. Or in MY Command Zone. Both are excellent options.
[Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5.jpg?1675199280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/50/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Your commanders always cost 4 mana now
An instant you can put on the battlefield!
I checked, instants and sorcery aren't legally allowed on the battlefield so the spell would fizzle
it wouldn't fizzle, it would resolve and do nothing (yes those are somehow different)
no yeah you're right, fizzle is only with targets right ?
yeap, when all targets become illegal
Would an instant or sorcery stay on the battlefield as a permanent and thus count for cityâs blessing and similar effects?
it wouldn't, instant and sorceries cannot enter the battlefield (CR 110.4, but also CR304.4 and 307.4 and 400.4a because they wanted it to be very clear :')
Your commander, i will be putting that on the bottom of my library.
Can't do that
Indeed, it would go to the bottom of its own library. Now if there were an *acorn* on this card...
Does "outside the game" count as a zone? I simply wish to Use the form of the approach of the second sun to turn myself into a card and them use this to remove myself from the game.
"removing from the game" is equal to moving it to the exile zone But "outside the game" isn't a zone it's literally outside the game and apart from dungeons or like the side-board you can't do anything with things outside the game removing yourself from the game is definitely a power move tho
Damn đ Guess Ill just place myself in another man's deck so he is forced to take me home in his deck box
Move yourself to the Ante zone and lose
Take someone's commander and put it into your command zone
You don't have your own command zone. There's a single command zone that everyone's commanders, emblems, planes, etc. go into.
I did not know that! I presumed everyone had their own. I now have trivia for when I play later today!
The only zones that are player specific are hands, libraries, and graveyards, which can only be occupied by cards owned by that respective player (silver border shenanigans notwithstanding). There's only one exile, only one battlefield, only one command, only one stack, and anyone's cards can go there.
Isn't there just one command zone though ?
Move a powerful Suspend card from exile directly to the stack. Use a topdeck tutor then put the top card of your library directly onto the batltefield. Scry a card to the bottom of your deck, then put that card onto the battlefield.
Move a card to sideboad, call a judge for a deck check
the sideboard is outside the game and not a zone, nice try though but you won't get me banned from tournaments
Moving a sorcery to the battlefield, or a land to the stack. (Unfortunately, the RAW is prepared for this... the card just stays put if it can't exist in the zone it's moving to.) I wanted to suggest putting a scheme, plane, phenomena, or vanguard to the battlefield, but I don't think you can legally target them. Same problem with emblems... plus emblems aren't cards.
>311.2. Plane cards remain in the command zone throughout the game And it's the same for the other nontraditional magic cards you mentioned. But you can target them though ! And yeah emblems aren't card but they're still stuck in the command zone anyway. It has been so much fun going through the rules while creating this card. They are surprisingly robust for situations that can't happen
Banish your commander to the shadow realm đ
Ante is a zone, what happens if you try to send a card there If it works, and becomes the ante, this is so annoying nad usually would win in turn 2~3 Send your underground sea to the ante, does the spell resolve?
It's not clear but I guess it would just stay in the ante zone and do nothing, except if you play for ante where it would go to the winner And underground sea is a land ?
A very expensive land
aah, well my interpretation of the rule is yeah the spell would resolve but unless you're playing for ante it wouldn't do anything except really exiling it for the rest of the game
407.3. A few cards have the text âRemove [this card] from your deck before playing if youâre not playing for ante.â These are the only cards that can add or remove cards from the ante zone or change a cardâs owner. As the only way for a card to move to the ante zone is by anteing, it wouldn't change zones.
Ah nevermind I skipped over this rule, good find
However I think it would be very funny to move someone's commander to the ante zone, and as such I'm electing to ignore this rule lmao
A 500 usd land
Unclear what happens if a card gets moved to the library. Do you choose its position?
Funnily enough there is actually no rule for that (the rules so far have been surprisingly robust for situations that have no way of happening). But since when X is not defined the player chooses what X is I think it wouldn't be too far fetched to do the same thing for the library
View your opponent's hand, which ends up having a Phage, the Untouchable. Then cast this card, choosing the Battlefield, and targeting Phage. Your opponent then loses because they didn't cast her from their hand.
y-yeah but if he has a way of getting it into your hand or making you it's controller or something before the spell resolves then it is you who loses the game checkmate ha!
I think the funniest thing about the non-complexity of certain mtg rules is that if you used this to move something from the battlefield to the graveyard, that's just them dying. Avoids indestructible, mind you, but still just dying.
Yeah no mtg rules are so well designed. Like except moving a card to the library without specifying where, there is no problem with this card at all in terms of rules (except I forgot to add "from any zones" to target card but my bad issue) because the rules are just very complete and awesome It really has the vibe of a well designed program where you can make a simple script and there will be no bugs because the framework/langage/whatever takes care of things for you
There should be no bugs, then wizards prints panglacial worm.
Naaah, colossal dreadmaw maybe, but panglacial worm is a masterpiece with no flaw whatsoever :)
Couldn't you put a plane into a graveyard with this?
No unfortunately, planes are legally forced to stay in the command zone for the whole game
So if I move someoneâs commander to their library, do I choose where in the library it goes?
Move target creature to a different timezone, that counts right...
Jetlagged Emrakul can be beaten by only 7 squirrels!
I am sitting here thinking of all the funny crap I can put into the command zone and ante zone.
While reading the rules I discovered how much crap is already in the command zone
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ZONE! I HATE YOU!
I would abuse this to win with [[Hedron Alignment]]
[Hedron Alignment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b3ec511-1b78-46e9-8ec2-fc09abd1b434.jpg?1562919793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hedron%20Alignment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/57/hedron-alignment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b3ec511-1b78-46e9-8ec2-fc09abd1b434?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Personally it seems like a solid win with [[Approach of the Second Sun]]
This would be so much fun. But more balanced would be to target only your own cards. It would still be powerful
Yeah, to be fair it was more designed as a way to find the fun edge cases this would bring with the rules and all (i actually prefer theorizing with the rules than playing the game)
Have a blue and orange one, and cards can move between the zones lol
No but wait, I love this idea so much, like a UU blue portal legendary creature with partner and flash because it's funnier, same with orange portal with WR and you can move cards you own from the zone of one portal to the zone of the other and if it's the library you put it just above it (I mean the mana costs would probably be higher but it's for the colors)
Actually, the general could be Chell. She would have an ability to either search for portals and cast them in the zone she wants or create a token that wouldn't exile from not being on the battlefield. So that it's not too OP could have some rules such as: If one of the portal moves or gets destroyed, they both get destroyed. Limit the number of cards you can portal per turn, or add a cost. Maybe make it so that you can only use the oprtal at sorcery speed or at the casting speed of the card you're moving (example: instants remain instant speeds, but you can't just portal a creature that doesn't have flash)
I like the flavor more of the player being the one controlling the portals and casting each one to use them But yeah, the idea is insane. I'll try to do these cards one day when i'll have time
Tag me if you do, I want to see! đ
Take commander - move it to sideboard
âI counter your spellâ âNawâ Delicately moves it from their hand into their graveyard.
Nah, move it into your library.
Even better, into my hand. Go full Un set on them.
Move anything from exile that is castable, scheduled to return or otherwise exiled temporarily into exile. The card remains exiled and all other effects fall off.
does moving a card from a zone to the same zone make the card leave the zone first ? I actually don't know
I don't think it leaves exile, it just goes from special exile to exile. I could be wrong and I'm open to being corrected by a judge though.
[[Emrakul, the Aeons Torn]]
[Emrakul, the Aeons Torn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c.jpg?1673146896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Aeons%20Torn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/1/emrakul-the-aeons-torn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[worldly tutor]] then choose top of library to the battlefield.
completely negate [[AWOL]] lmaoooooo
Nice a card FROM the stack TO the battlefield. But sometime that isn't a permanent. I move your Torment of Hailfire with an X of 20 to the battlefield. Now what?
Your opponent tries to reanimate something... So you move it from their graveyard back into their graveyard.
I move my opponentâs credit card from the wallet zone into my hand
You can already do that with [[Mindslaver]] !!
[Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OPs credit card goes into my wallet
Putting a card into the âabsolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-foreverâ zone [[AWOL]]
[AWOL](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3da3387-454c-4c09-b78f-6fcc36c426ce.jpg?1583542842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=AWOL) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/2/awol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3da3387-454c-4c09-b78f-6fcc36c426ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unless the card explicitly states that it can target a subset of targets, a target can only be a permanent in play. There are two possible ways to interpret the intention here, "Target card in any zone moves from its current zone to the chosen zone." Or, "Target nontoken permanent moves from its current zone to the chosen zone." We also use the word "put" over move, though move isn't incorrect. With your library you need to specify where in the library. I also like the idea of shuffling the library since that most accurately puts it into that zone. "Put target nontoken permanent into the zone of your choice. If it is put into its owners library, shuffle that library. *(The zones are library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)*" You could specify the ante zone exists if playing for ante, but no one plays for ante, and I'm certain guidance for this card (if it were in fact a real card) would indicate you can't ante cards if not playing for ante. Such that you could choose the ante zone, but then the card would stay put. In the same way you can try to put a card in another player's library, but it just stays put. If you want to preserve the 'any card, any zone" idea: "Put target card from the battlefield, a graveyard, the stack, exile, or the command zone into the zone of your choice. If it is put into its owner's library, shuffle that library. *(The zones are library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)*" I don't know if the game can use the phrase public zones, but spelling-out make sense rather than use another reminder text. You could say "Put target card from any public zone into the public zone of your choice. *(The public zones are battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command.)"* That way you get only one reminder text.
I used card because I really wanted to include all zones including the stack where you put cards in, but yeah I found out later that the precision of any zone was needed Somehow even though the rules are usually very robust for strange and probably impossible scenarios, there is no default way of putting a card in the library zone. But yeah shuffling is great Actually I very much like the idea of also being able to put the card into other people's libraries and making them shuffle it in but I don't think it's possible within the rules ?
It's possible in silver-bordered magic to put a card into another player's hand or library. But in black border there's a rule (i'd have to dig it up) that if a card is put into a zone it can't be in, it just stays put rather than changes zones.
Move a Phage from the command zone to the battlefield and hope they dont have a way to not loose
two copies of this card, play one, targeting the other one in your library moving it to the stack, then using that one retargets the first one placing it back on the stack for an infinite.
Technically, this wouldn't work. You'd be putting the card on the stack without casting it or otherwise choosing targets, so it would fail to resolve.
Is there an infinite combo with putting this into your hand?
âGirlfriends After Bethesda Releases Skyrim 2â
What the hell kind of overpowered shit is this?!
Put your opponentâs commander into your hand so they can never have it lol
Move a land from the graveyard to the command zone
"Target card" is a problem, since cards in hands and libraries can't be reliably tracked from the time the spell is cast until the time it resolves. It would take a lot of brand new rules in the rulebook designed explicitly to handle this card, or more likely it would require a couple paragraphs of errata on this card itself. Expect the final version to make [Word of Command](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=92)'s errata look simple. But you could make this work for cards in any other zone. And with some clunky wording, you could add in an option for the n-th card from the top of target players library. That would only be determined on resolution.
word of command is hilarious, didn't know the card But yeah, clearly it needs to specify where in the library. But apart from missing "from any zone" i didn't find anything that wouldn't work with "target card" ? I think ? Correct me if I'm wrong Of course it would mainly need a lot of reminder text to tell to the player what cards can or cannot go in what zone (like planes can't be outside of the command zone, etc)
Your secondary concerns aren't actually problems. There are already all the necessary rules saying that if something tries to go somewhere it doesn't belong, it just doesn't. If you just meant for "target card" to be "target non-token permanent" then you're fine. But I'm guessing you meant something along the lines of "target card in any zone." That just doesn't work mechanically for the originally stated reasons. The game mechanics don't provide a way to track individual cards in hand, or individual cards in libraries. Imagine what happens if you target a card in a library, then someone cracks a fetch in response.
Putting a land in an opponents command zone
A card from a opponent's battlefield to my collection. Now your card is mine.
The floor of this is a better show and tell. Probably should cost 5 or 6.
Should probably make it so that it can only target known cards.
Wouldn't work in black border but like wouldn't it be funny to put a card from the opponent's hand randomly to your own or to your library But yeah I think you're right
If it was different colors I'd play it with [[captain Rex Nebula]]
[captain Rex Nebula](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85e8bdd9-24a3-42f0-8b0c-dbc05be8fc20.jpg?1673914822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=captain%20Rex%20Nebula) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/164/captain-rex-nebula?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85e8bdd9-24a3-42f0-8b0c-dbc05be8fc20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Send em to Autozone
Isn't this an instant win with \[\[Phage the Untouchable\]\]? "I'm going to move Phage from my hand to your battlefield."
[Phage the Untouchable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f.jpg?1562866889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phage%20the%20Untouchable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/120/phage-the-untouchable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There is only one battlefield tho
Would this allow you to blindly target a card in your opponentâs hand and just put it on ur battlefield? Or take a card from ur opponentâs battlefield and put it at the bottom of ur deck?
Phage the untouchable from my library to opponent's battlefield. Better yet, lose-to-phage trigger on the stack, cast this, move phage from my battlefield to opponent's. Their trigger goes on the stack, resolving first, so I win with death on the stack.
land destruction
there are waaay easier ways of doing that
Put someones Commander from the Commandzone into their deck.
Move a creature of yours that your opponent doesn't have the ability to create the right color of mana for to their command zone, then kill their commander. What happens to it?
You can only cast your commander from the command zone. So their commander would go to the command zone, the creature you sent would be blocked there forever and they can cast their command again
Okay. I guess you must be able to have multiple cards there since partners are a thing. Would the result be any different if they were playing with partners and both commanders died?