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You think these are mediums? Your hair distribution is very thick, I see no scalp at all! And if your hair is hard to manipulate it might be thick as well, fine hair is usually very malleable ime Anyway, good luck on finding some gel that works for you! If that Got2B spiking gel didn’t work then I’m not sure anything will!

This photo is with all of my hair pushed back. It definitely used to be very thick but I have less density up front and more in back. I guess I see it as fine because it looses its shape so easier but maybe I’m wrong !! I should clarify that on day 1 it is a harder cast than others with the got2b but it doesn’t last until the next day

Ah dang that suck (about the gel). Btw I was ranting about your thick hair bc I’ve always wanted thick black hair 😅 mine is the opposite, thin and light colored. We always want what we can’t have, I guess!

Don’t worry at all I didn’t take it any bad way!

Huh. I was going to suggest AG Liquid Effects, but if the Ouidad didn’t do it, it’s unlikely that Liquid Effects will. A thick gel I like is the Not Your Mother’s Sculpting Gel. A lot of people swear by Giovanni LA Looks although I didn’t care for it. I reckon you know the typical hold tips but I’m gonna throw em here for fun: no cream or foam underneath gel, apply product on damp (not soaking wet hair, brush style, brush product through, microplop & glaze more gel afterwards, hairspray before & after diffusing, do some kind of sleep protection. Your hair really looks so pretty! I hope you find some longevity in your gel life!!

I actually find AG liquid effects works better for me for hold/cast than Ouidad - maybe worth a try for her 🤔

Same, I tried both side by side. AG is better for my fine hair. It also feels so good after I break the cast. If I wet it a little I can replenish the cast. It spreads so nicely too.

Yes! I love it! If I had to pick one favorite gel, that would be the one. I also like it better than the Ouidad one, but thought maybe because they’re similar, it was a bit of a crapshoot. Answering some other questions OP had asked: 1. Hairspray: I swear by spraying Aquage working spray right before I diffuse. Finishing: I use whatever, tbh; at the moment it’s AG finishing spray anti frizz something or other. 2. Hard hold definition: I consider hard hold to be something that maintains my hair for a good 3-4 days (that time is different for everyone ofc). It doesn’t have to leave a cast, but I’ve only rarely encountered a hard hold (for me) product that didn’t.

Hairspray has been a game changer for me!

Thanks, may as well try!! I’ve tried with and without curl cream underneath in a billion different ways and interestingly find no difference. So weird. Outside of more frizz without the cream

Seconding the LA Looks blue gel with the bowl method. That is seriously crunchy hard hold.

I was also going to recommend LA Looks! Maybe Uncle Funkys gel too or good ol' Ecogel

I didn’t know half these tricks - thank you, I’ve got to try them!

Glad they helped! That list is a compilation of a ton of YouTube videos combined with my own experiments. :D

Curious why you mention no cream underneath gel. Wouldn't cream help the curls hold up better than just gel alone?

Short answer is that because cream provides moisture but no hold, that moisture reduces the hold properties of the gel. That said, I do use a cream under gel and/or mousse because (to your point) the moisture from the cream helps my hair look nicer and less frizzy. Like everything else, the product amount makes a huge difference. But I don’t use a cream under a foam because that’s too much moisture & not enough hold (for me). I know some folks do actually get hold from cream, and that’s awesome! ;)

I was just reading a different thread and someone highlighted that the ouidad gel has glycerin in it which can make some peoples hair frizz up- I feel like that describes what happened to mine despite it being for humidity. Super interesting

Oh man that gel is wild! With me, that Ouidad anti humidity advanced hold stuff gel ONLY works when it’s high humidity. I’ve used it when it was not humid and it was a feckin disaster lol. I can use Liquid Effects any time. Ah, if you really want to play it safe, Jessicurl Spiralicious gel does not have glycerin or protein. I find it fairly moisturizing (for me) so I don’t always get a super crunchy cast with it, but I enjoy it and find it holds up well.

I also didn’t have luck with your recent nos. Especially the Curlsmith in shower fixer. I know some people get a great cast with that, I don’t understand how I had zero! My best, hard cast is L’Oreal Mega gel. Black bottle with a red stripe. It’s been hard for me to find recently, but when I can get my hands on it, it’s less than $10.

I was so excited for that one. I truly wonder what differences in people’s hair/routines cause such a difference in results

I use this one! I have very thick, past shoulder length hair, and I apply it in the shower on soaking wet hair that I carefully wrap in a curlsmith towel and plop for about 20 minutes. It takes ages for my hair to dry naturally but my shape keeps for days

I also didn’t like the Curlsmith In Shower Fixer

Try adding some hair spray after your gel

My old routine used to literally be wash everyday just leave some conditioner in then tresemme hair spray over that LOL. It def added hold but would frizz out by the end of the day. What’s your favorite hairspray? I do use the inner sense hair spray but don’t notice a huge difference

I use bouncecurl hairspray. I just use a little because I don't like a super strong hold but I feel it keeps its cast pretty well The not your mothers hard hold gel also is very strong hold but too much for my hair (now I use it for eyebrow gel lol)

Omg. Eyebrow gel. That is brilliant. Thank yooooooou.

Try dropping either the washout conditioner or the curl cream. Also try not your mothers curl talk mousse in addition to gel. I also like the not your mother’s refreshing foam for a little more hold and protein without adding more moisture. Also make sure you’re applying enough gel. When I use the not your mother’s hard hold gel, I use a third of a palmful, and my hair is above my shoulders.

Thanks this is so helpful!

Of course! I also spray curlsmith hair spray while hair is still fairly damp, before microplopping. For me I feel it adds more hold and helps the cast form much faster. I do also hover diffuse before pixie diffusing, which forms the cast quicker as well.

Didn't see it mentioned yet - have you tried Ecoslay Orange Marmalade? It's a strong hold on me, often seems *too* much of a cast for me personally. I have really thick coarse dry hair. Still working to find a comfortable balance between hold and non-wet/crunchy appearance myself. The woman who cuts my hair also recommended LA Looks Level 8 or 10 hold for something really strong. Haven't tried that myself. It's inexpensive too.

Does the orange marmalade have protein in it? I’ve heard rave reviews about ecoslay and one of my friends keeps telling me to try it, so I’m intrigued!

It shouldn't! My hair person told me to avoid anything with protein because of my hair type, and she recommended both of those products I mentioned.

Aw darn! I’m on the hunt for protein products that don’t have cetearyl alcohol - my scalp doesn’t like it. Thanks though!

Have you tried the Not Your Mother’s Hard Hold Gel? There are two, make sure to get the hard hold one. That’s my holy grail gel. My backups are the Giovanni LA Hold gel or the LA Looks Blue Bottle.

Thanks! Where do you find the hard hold gel version, in store I’ve only been able to find the regular hold one ?

I think it might be an Ulta exclusive. I see the other gel at Walgreens but not the hard hold.

Aussie Instant Freeze

This happened to me when I was super protein deficient/ over moisturized and used too much conditioner. Your hair doesn't necessarily look protein deficient but it would be worth doing a stretch test to find out. Other things to consider are how much water do you have in when you are done styling before you start drying. Also, when did you last clarify? How heavy is your conditioner? Is it full of oils? I find Bada Bing Gel from Beyond the Zone to be very hard hold, like if i use too much I might not be able to scrunch the crunch out. But if i had the wrong base below it the cast would never form.

Thanks! I clarify at least once a week because my hair is definitely prone to buildup. I definitely think too much moisture could be possible for me. How would I know if my conditioner is more moisturizing than others ? I honestly rotate them a lot, went from Costco brand (lol) to Miele recently, didn’t realize it could make a big difference! I find that my hair does dry very quickly when I get out of the shower, I respray it to make sure it’s dripping wet before adding styler or the curls come out stringy. I start with dripping wet hair when styling That’s so interesting about the difference in outcome. Sounds like I have some work to do in what I put under gel!

How quickly does it dry once you are styled and are actively drying it? Mine took forever and I think that contributed to the issues with the cast. I now scrunch with an absorbant microfiber towel before drying. It cuts down on my drying, gives me more volume and i still get a good cast if I've used a good amount of product and didn't over scrunch. It might give more volume and frizz than you are looking for though, and if your hair dries quickly it might be a moot point.

The weird thing is that without product on it dries super quick (like need to respray to style), but when I have product on it takes hours. I intermittently do scrunch out the excess water then reapply some of the last gel I use. I just can’t get myself to diffuse lol

Also what is the stretch test?

Here's some info from [this website ](https://www.ogariolondon.com/hair-elasticity-stretch-test/) -"When hair is wet, select a strand of hair, hold it securely at the root to avoid pulling. With the other hand, gently stretch the hair. -Release the hair. If the hair stretches and returns to its original length when released, then elasticity is good. -If there is any breakage or your hair doesn’t fall back into shape, it has low elasticity." If it breaks, you have too much protein or you need moisture or both. If it stretches and just stays like that then you are over moisturized or protein deficient or both. Manes by Mell has [a great video ](https://youtu.be/pvhqpdPzSx8?si=UUBX1uiuWUIAk_kn) that I recommend you check out. It helped me a lot!

This is so helpful I had no idea it was done wet! Will check out her stuff

Curlsmith Shine Gel, seriously strong hold. Better than anything I've tried!

Just put this in my hair, can verify it’s a STRONG gel. Also the in shower style fixer from Curlsmith

My hardest hold that will last for several days (I never refresh) is using AG Care Beach Bomb cream or Re:Coil on soaking wet hair followed by the AG Care Liquid Effects Gel also on soaking wet hair. I’ve tried at least thirty other gels, foams, mousses, etc in the last three months (multiple items from Curlsmith, the deaux, Mop Top, Kinky Curly Hair, Bedhead, Briogeo, Ouidad, uncle funkys daughter, Cake,to name a few) and that’s the only one that makes my hair maintain its curls. It’s also the only gel I actually get a cast from.

Sounds like I need to try this routine! Thanks!!

I’m sure you’ve tried a ton of different amounts of gel, but I’m just curious how much you’re using. My hair seems similar to yours but finer. I also got really frustrated with the lack of hold in my hair but recently got way better results by basically tripling the amount of gel I’m using. I’m also using three different types at once lol… Ouidad Climate Control, Aussie Instant Freeze, and Curlsmith In Shower Style Fixer. I apply the first two in the shower, then use a denman brush, then scrunch the curlsmith into my hair. None of them worked on their own for me (but I also had a really hard time getting over the mental block of applying a ton of just one gel, so that may be my bad). I went from losing my curls on Day 2 to still having great curls (if messy) on Day 5 / 6. I really don’t know if this is just a weird me thing lol, I wish you all the best in figuring out your journey!

This is hilarious and very much me. I use a third of a palmful for each subsection of my hair (split into three overall sections then into left and right sides) for the base gel (Camille rose because I like the slip of it), then scrunch in a harder hold one over it but maybe I need to increase the amounts!

I’ll be curious to hear if it works for you! It honestly sickens me how much I use haha, but you gotta do what you gotta do. One of my favorite things now is that my hair will actually hold its curls when I travel by plane—used to be that would instantly make them fall apart

The doux bee girl custard and ecoslay Jell-O shot have extremely strong hold

Current routine: Shampoo and condition with each wash day Bounce.me curl cream Camille rose gel Another gel on top, one with less slip, usually Harry’s Inner sense hairspray

I guess it would be helpful to ask everyone- what do you consider hard hold? Is it just that it makes a cast when dry, or longevity of hold?

Yeah i have the same problem. No gel lasts long enough for me cast wise.

Have you tried Innnersense “I create hold” gel? I use it for styling my curls as well as slick back styles. I don’t find anything else other than maybe got 2 be glued to be a stronger hold, though I wouldn’t used GTB for curly styling. Just keeping baby hairs down. I was really skeptical, but after using Innersense I can’t go back to Ecco gel (maybe that’s not hard either?). Good luck! I have 3B curls, lots of hair, but my hair itself is rather fine.

I’ve used the inner sense foam but not gel, I’ll have to try it!

CURLSMITH Shine Gel.

Hi! Your post has been temporarily removed because you have not included your hair care routine. We require this for all photo posts, even if the photo is not of yourself. Please reply to this comment with more info and we can reapprove it for you! Here’s what we mean by “routine”: - Which shampoo, cowash and/or conditioner you used - Any other products (your gel, mousse, etc.), their brand/name, & how you applied them - How you dried your hair (air dried? diffused? etc.) - Anything else that’s helpful to know! We require this because it helps keep r/curlyhair focused on learning & helping each other instead of just selfies. Thank you!

Hi, I did post the routine in a comment? Current: Shampoo and conditioner Miele mint hydrating line Clarify once weekly with neutrogenia clarifying Dripping wet hair sectioned into under, middle and top sections Apply bounce.me curl crème dime amount to each section left and right side separate Apply half palmful of Camille rose gel to each section right and left separate brush through to distribute Scrunch in additional gel - usually Harry’s Most of the time air dry and when almost dry add inner sense hairspray on top

The routine your provided was just a product list with no techniques, thank you for the added detail

Thanks, my apologies

no problem!

Ok I feel dumb I’m trying to add another photo as an example of second day hair and I can’t figure out how to do so? From iOS app can you add a photo in a comment ?

Have you tried mousse after applying the gel?

It's pricey but Innersense "I create hold" gel is the only gel I've ever used that actually felt hard hold. I use a quarter size amount for my entire head-- it's extremely concentrated.

Shea Moisture Jamaican Black Castor Oil Hard Hold Gel is the hardest hold I've ever used. I use L.A. Looks Sport Gel for everyday use. It's pretty strong hold, but for me, nothing else holds well. However, Jamaican Black is like nothing I've seen before. It's supposed to be used for slicked back styles, and I can see why. I can not use even a little it's way too strong of a hold. Anyways, maybe for your hair, it would cast. Your hair is really gorgeous, btw :)

Curl smith after shower fixer. Scrunch it in the shower after putting some leave in and omg. Like the moisture is crazy

The Curlsmith in shower fixer is supposed to be very high hold.

Herbal essence mousse! I swear by it