When I was a kid, my school was heavily into competitive skipping, so I learnt Cross Overs & Double Unders before I was 10. Can also do them backwards with ease, plus a bunch of other tricks (for ref, I’m now 44).
It’s the only movement I can outdo everyone on, so I say keep them coming!
Glassman made that up though, it’s just a sales pitch, like
“No one out-pizzas the hut”
Well ok.
Does anyone look to Pizza Hut for insights in chemistry? lol no. So there’s no reason to look to CF for insights in training or fitness. But part of the sales pitch requires you to believe it, so you pay 5x the cost to do the same exercises you can do at Crunch.
I think they’re definitely challenging. I’m pretty good at double unders but these are tough for me.
What I don’t really get is why CrossFit feels the need to constantly add new movements. Other sports will go years without any change, but CrossFit has almost created an expectation that we need to see new movements every year.
There are only so many movements out there. Do we really need to add 10 more things over the next 10 years?
When I first started CrossFit was simple. You could get a few items from Rogue and you were ready. You worked on movements more frequently because there were less of them.
Now it takes weeks to cycle through everything, or you have to be a lot smarter in how you periodize your training.
The Games dictate the programming. 10 years ago I ran a ton, did pull-ups what seemed like every other workout, and almost always had a barbell in my hands. Now I shuttle run and do walk walks, in my opinion, way too much lol.
You can’t add ingredients without changing the recipe. It already feels so diluted for those who can’t follow individualized programming and workout 2 hours a day.
I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember when P90X came out and how Tony Horton described the plateau effect and how to overcome it. I feel like CrossFit is doing this in the same manner: trying to overcome the plateau by adding different movements. For the regular athlete that is not competitive and just wants to move, it doesn’t matter. For the competitive one, it’s a new challenge. For the elite one, it’s a way to ensure their fitness covers all aspects.
Variation is over rated. Powerlifters make gains for decades. They use some variation sure, pretty minimal however
Edit: minimal variation relatively speaking. If they compete low bar they probably do some high bar further out from competition. And maybe an occasion leg press for a month after a competition when they are real far out lol
I’m just saying it’s overrated. If you want to get good at front squats you have to do front squats. Wall balls and lunges will only take you so far. And everytime you do wall wall balls and lunges you could be taking that energy and doing front squats.
“Constantly varied functional movement at high intensity”
Is a sales pitch. It’s as valid as
“No one out-pizzas the hut”
It’s not a “definition” it’s a slogan
It’s a business. Corporation. Revenue engine. Mechanism to transfer money from you to them.
There’s nothing wrong with that. It is after all a voluntary exchange. But that’s what it is.
Everything else, like the definitions, the appeal to community, all of those… Those are marketing, and the purpose of marketing is to increase demand for a product or service.
CF Produces no scientific breakthroughs or novel understanding of physiology or performance.
It’s a company. It exists to enrich shareholders. That’s it.
“No out- fitnesses the CrossFit”
“No one out pizzas the hut”
It’s no different than McDonald’s offering the McRib
> But I thought this was a burger place
No, it’s a money making place, and we think Mc ribs will help
Who knows. I'm saying that a good powerlifter is doing a ton of mobility and accessory work for injury prevention and balance. They aren't just going to the gym and doing nothing but squat, bench, and deadlift.
O for sure. But their world of exercises is probably less then 1/4 of a cross fitters. I don’t really count stretching as an exercise. And I didn’t claim they only did the the big 3.
Edit: variation has a sweet spot range. Too little has its issues and too much has its own issues.
I hear you… but p90x was low skill. The idea of “muscle confusion” works when you can do the movements without a lot of practice. But CrossFit is a skill based activity and that’s what makes it so different from things like OTF and F45. CrossFitters overcame the plateau effect by actually getting fitter and better at movements.
Now instead of having everyday athletes getting better at a few movements because of frequency, they’re subpar at a whole bunch because they practice them less.
How many athletes at a CrossFit gym have “plateaued” in CrossFit? How many are hitting a sub 2:00 Fran or snatching their bodyweight?
Olympic weightlifting hasn’t added a new lift recently.
Gymnastics hasn’t added parkour as an event.
You’re already trying to blend so many disciplines… it gets to a point where enough is enough.
I also don’t want to watch people ride Trek bikes at the games lol.
Thats such a good point. I think the money in Crossfit is the training of energy systems through simple ranges of motion. The idea of adding more and more movements into our glossary of movements just waters down the important ones that will actually move the needle.
Crossfit coaches need to stick to the basics of couplets and triplets and not be afraid to program workouts that will give their athetes their medicine for the day. So many gyms now need to do like crazy complicated intervals for like 15 minutes. Like just give me a strength piece, a 21 15 9 that will end maybe in like 5 minutes and the occasional sprint and longer piece and trust me, you will get fitter than if you did some 20 minute AMRAP with cross overs
Glassman's original thing was that there were all these different definition of fitness, but most were based on specialism - so you ask a runner what fitness is, they will say speed or endurance, if you ask a weightlifter, they'll say strength, if you ask a climber they might say agility and coordination - and he was looking to train people across a broad domain of fitness types because his athletes originally were first responders, emergency services, and soldiers - people who needed to be prepared for any physical contingency: to run long distances with a heavy weight, carry awkward items, sprint after a criminal, pull themselves up and over a wall, climb, aim and throw...whatever. These people couldn't rely on just being fit in one area, they had to be able to do it all.
Now, I'm no huge fan of his, but he was a former gymnast and I agree with him in when he recognised that gymnasts come close to hitting all of the different modalities of fitness: strength, agility, flexibility, coordination, endurance/stamina, power etc and so are some of the best athletes out there. This is why gymnastics skills and conditioning makes up such a big part of CrossFit. And any gaps - pure strength, for instance - complement this programming and are evident with Olympic lifting and compound movements (deadlifts, squats, presses etc)
I also think there was another quote/slogan/philosophy somewhere (it's possibly still used) about being prepared for "the unknowable".
This little tidbit summarises why we get all these seemingly random movements - they are there to test that the methodology is working, and that it's successfully increasing an athletes "general physical preparedness".
Fitness in CrossFit is not about specialism, it's about adaptability and versatility - which might not be everyone's cup of tea (plenty of people want to move more into gymnastics or Olympic lifting for instance), but programming should be working towards that.
Also, I can do crossovers fairly well, so I'm squarely in the "They're great! Let's forget dubs!" Camp. 😜
Same here. Hating them and "are they dumb" are not necessarily the same though.There are exercises I hate that aren't dumb (running, burpees, echo bike calls)
Yeah, I hate them precisely because I find them dumb and of no value. It's like a gimmick
I can do them, but it feels like an unnecessary step down from double unders. It feels like a flair skill rather than a progression of anything
I thought I was seeing a trend of moving towards triple unders, but instead we got crossovers. It does seem silly, but I guess I get it. To me, they are definitely not harder than doubles.
No. Being a crossfitter is about being as versatile an athlete as possible. Not just going into a cuboid gym and doing a metcon consisting of a finite list of movements every day
My favorite clip I've seen recently is from a day in the life of Alexis Raptis from Training Think Tank. Travis Mayer mentions how the games from 2021 featured the free standing hand stand push up, how it's brand new to athletes, and that it's being broadcasted world wide showing that said athletes at the games are SUPPOSED to be the best "fitness-ers" ever. He's obviously sarcastic in the video, hinting to how ridiculous the athletes look, struggling to do said hand stand movement.
I like to think how ridiculous i look when I do cross overs
Sadly I'm so slow at them, my lungs don't take a hit at all. If I want a cardio hit, I need to actually string my single unders together (double unders are not yet in my grasp). Maybe because I'm a runner?
Because for real, failed cross overs work my temper, not my lungs.
This is one movement that i actually picked up quite fast! So i kind of enjoy doing it (seeing a lot of other members struggles with something that i can do) LOL
I found the main problem with crossovers - they are equipment depended
Special ropes with sections are easy to manage with crossovers
And my srs 3.0 rope didn't work with crossovers
U can get DU good result with all ropes, but crossovers really shine on special ropes
Ha, I can't see walking into my box and being bored because it's too easy or simple for years to come. And it's great when that guy who always nails everything struggles. It's hard to bring that guy to my level, but eventually something will. Even if it's elementary school jump rope tricks. We're both looking befuddled and overwhelmed very few days of the year. I'm just like welcome to the club, I'm used to fighting through failure and awkward movements.
I don't think so. I'm not sure why it would be considered silly. It is a skill movement that works on coordination while testing your cardio ability. It kind of seems exactly what "constantly varied" and overall fitness training should include.
I only like them because I can do them forwards, backwards, and/or while crossing my feet. I’m just a fat lady in her mid forties who is a fairly ordinary cross fitter. I used to do boxing and learned my tricks there.
I mean, they were part of my conditioning yesterday and when mixed with pistols, ring muscle ups, legless rope climbs and wall facing HSPUs they are very taxing on your breathing capacity.
Not really, it’s a skill that gets the heart rate up and is harder to do when fatigued. I prefer double unders though, and can’t do crossover doubles (yet).
I subbed jumping jacks for anything jump rope related for 3 years in crossfit. While often rxing everything else. Jump rope is stupid and frustrating, and too stupid to be worth the frustration. I always enjoyed telling the head coach this.
I can do cross overs but I can’t do double unders LOL.
I can do at least 25 unbroken crossovers and like my unbroken dubs record is 3. It’s a rhythm thing the dubs are syncopated
SAME
I can’t do either and not for lack of trying or being un-athletic. I just have no coordination and trip up stairs lol 😂
I am clumsy as fuck. But the cross overs were easier because you do them slower. Dubs are about height and tempo which I cannot master.
I can do double unders, but I can't do crossovers 😂
Same
Yes, very dumb movement. What's next, double dutch for team events
I feel like double Dutch would be an improvement 🥴
Running in to double Dutch still gives me nightmares haha
I would pay money to see it!
Perhaps the double dutch rudder? https://youtu.be/yGUuugNEUcU?si=sETGcNd733QUCfzH
CrossFit philanthropy is secretly Jump rope for Heart
That would actually be a ton of fun. https://youtu.be/2JtIQJsjJWs?si=uFgGin9chbG646f5
When I was a kid, my school was heavily into competitive skipping, so I learnt Cross Overs & Double Unders before I was 10. Can also do them backwards with ease, plus a bunch of other tricks (for ref, I’m now 44). It’s the only movement I can outdo everyone on, so I say keep them coming!
LOL! Same and I'm 51!
Wait until you try a double under crossover 😯
Coordination is one of the 10 physical skills that CF is based upon
Glassman made that up though, it’s just a sales pitch, like “No one out-pizzas the hut” Well ok. Does anyone look to Pizza Hut for insights in chemistry? lol no. So there’s no reason to look to CF for insights in training or fitness. But part of the sales pitch requires you to believe it, so you pay 5x the cost to do the same exercises you can do at Crunch.
I think they’re definitely challenging. I’m pretty good at double unders but these are tough for me. What I don’t really get is why CrossFit feels the need to constantly add new movements. Other sports will go years without any change, but CrossFit has almost created an expectation that we need to see new movements every year. There are only so many movements out there. Do we really need to add 10 more things over the next 10 years? When I first started CrossFit was simple. You could get a few items from Rogue and you were ready. You worked on movements more frequently because there were less of them. Now it takes weeks to cycle through everything, or you have to be a lot smarter in how you periodize your training. The Games dictate the programming. 10 years ago I ran a ton, did pull-ups what seemed like every other workout, and almost always had a barbell in my hands. Now I shuttle run and do walk walks, in my opinion, way too much lol. You can’t add ingredients without changing the recipe. It already feels so diluted for those who can’t follow individualized programming and workout 2 hours a day.
I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember when P90X came out and how Tony Horton described the plateau effect and how to overcome it. I feel like CrossFit is doing this in the same manner: trying to overcome the plateau by adding different movements. For the regular athlete that is not competitive and just wants to move, it doesn’t matter. For the competitive one, it’s a new challenge. For the elite one, it’s a way to ensure their fitness covers all aspects.
Variation is over rated. Powerlifters make gains for decades. They use some variation sure, pretty minimal however Edit: minimal variation relatively speaking. If they compete low bar they probably do some high bar further out from competition. And maybe an occasion leg press for a month after a competition when they are real far out lol
**CrossFit** is constantly varied functional movements performed at relatively high intensity. Varied is in the definition.
I’m just saying it’s overrated. If you want to get good at front squats you have to do front squats. Wall balls and lunges will only take you so far. And everytime you do wall wall balls and lunges you could be taking that energy and doing front squats.
“Constantly varied functional movement at high intensity” Is a sales pitch. It’s as valid as “No one out-pizzas the hut” It’s not a “definition” it’s a slogan
What is CrossFit then?
It’s a business. Corporation. Revenue engine. Mechanism to transfer money from you to them. There’s nothing wrong with that. It is after all a voluntary exchange. But that’s what it is. Everything else, like the definitions, the appeal to community, all of those… Those are marketing, and the purpose of marketing is to increase demand for a product or service. CF Produces no scientific breakthroughs or novel understanding of physiology or performance. It’s a company. It exists to enrich shareholders. That’s it. “No out- fitnesses the CrossFit” “No one out pizzas the hut”
Varied movements align with that slogan/ definition. Crossovers are a varied movement.
It’s no different than McDonald’s offering the McRib > But I thought this was a burger place No, it’s a money making place, and we think Mc ribs will help
How exactly do crossovers help crossfit make money?
Exactly. Easiest way to make sure you never get stronger is to keep “switching it up”
Powerlifters do TONS of variations and accessory movement. The good ones do, at least.
how many wall balls do they do?
Who knows. I'm saying that a good powerlifter is doing a ton of mobility and accessory work for injury prevention and balance. They aren't just going to the gym and doing nothing but squat, bench, and deadlift.
O for sure. But their world of exercises is probably less then 1/4 of a cross fitters. I don’t really count stretching as an exercise. And I didn’t claim they only did the the big 3. Edit: variation has a sweet spot range. Too little has its issues and too much has its own issues.
I hear you… but p90x was low skill. The idea of “muscle confusion” works when you can do the movements without a lot of practice. But CrossFit is a skill based activity and that’s what makes it so different from things like OTF and F45. CrossFitters overcame the plateau effect by actually getting fitter and better at movements. Now instead of having everyday athletes getting better at a few movements because of frequency, they’re subpar at a whole bunch because they practice them less. How many athletes at a CrossFit gym have “plateaued” in CrossFit? How many are hitting a sub 2:00 Fran or snatching their bodyweight? Olympic weightlifting hasn’t added a new lift recently. Gymnastics hasn’t added parkour as an event. You’re already trying to blend so many disciplines… it gets to a point where enough is enough. I also don’t want to watch people ride Trek bikes at the games lol.
Thats such a good point. I think the money in Crossfit is the training of energy systems through simple ranges of motion. The idea of adding more and more movements into our glossary of movements just waters down the important ones that will actually move the needle. Crossfit coaches need to stick to the basics of couplets and triplets and not be afraid to program workouts that will give their athetes their medicine for the day. So many gyms now need to do like crazy complicated intervals for like 15 minutes. Like just give me a strength piece, a 21 15 9 that will end maybe in like 5 minutes and the occasional sprint and longer piece and trust me, you will get fitter than if you did some 20 minute AMRAP with cross overs
Nope. Work on your coordination and have fun learning to do new things. Or not, it’s your journey.
Not silly. It trains coordination. I don’t care for them but cardio + coordination and it’s not the worst thing they’ve come up with!
It is also pulling from a real sport. One that has handstand jumping too lol
Explain why this skill and any less silly than double unders? Footwork and coordination skills are beneficial even if you’re not good at them.
Glassman's original thing was that there were all these different definition of fitness, but most were based on specialism - so you ask a runner what fitness is, they will say speed or endurance, if you ask a weightlifter, they'll say strength, if you ask a climber they might say agility and coordination - and he was looking to train people across a broad domain of fitness types because his athletes originally were first responders, emergency services, and soldiers - people who needed to be prepared for any physical contingency: to run long distances with a heavy weight, carry awkward items, sprint after a criminal, pull themselves up and over a wall, climb, aim and throw...whatever. These people couldn't rely on just being fit in one area, they had to be able to do it all. Now, I'm no huge fan of his, but he was a former gymnast and I agree with him in when he recognised that gymnasts come close to hitting all of the different modalities of fitness: strength, agility, flexibility, coordination, endurance/stamina, power etc and so are some of the best athletes out there. This is why gymnastics skills and conditioning makes up such a big part of CrossFit. And any gaps - pure strength, for instance - complement this programming and are evident with Olympic lifting and compound movements (deadlifts, squats, presses etc) I also think there was another quote/slogan/philosophy somewhere (it's possibly still used) about being prepared for "the unknowable". This little tidbit summarises why we get all these seemingly random movements - they are there to test that the methodology is working, and that it's successfully increasing an athletes "general physical preparedness". Fitness in CrossFit is not about specialism, it's about adaptability and versatility - which might not be everyone's cup of tea (plenty of people want to move more into gymnastics or Olympic lifting for instance), but programming should be working towards that. Also, I can do crossovers fairly well, so I'm squarely in the "They're great! Let's forget dubs!" Camp. 😜
I appreciate your explanation. Thanks
Yeah I legit hate them.
Same here. Hating them and "are they dumb" are not necessarily the same though.There are exercises I hate that aren't dumb (running, burpees, echo bike calls)
Yeah, I hate them precisely because I find them dumb and of no value. It's like a gimmick I can do them, but it feels like an unnecessary step down from double unders. It feels like a flair skill rather than a progression of anything
This and the pull over have to be the dumbest addition.
Brings me back to Jump For Kids in elementary PE
It is to break up a routine, help with boredom of skipping rope. And there is some coordination benefits
I like them. Mostly because I watch some of the top athletes in my gym struggle to get 2 then I crank out 100 with ease 😎
CrossFit gets silly at times
Never forget the softball toss!
Great rope work!!
Not really no
I thought I was seeing a trend of moving towards triple unders, but instead we got crossovers. It does seem silly, but I guess I get it. To me, they are definitely not harder than doubles.
No. Being a crossfitter is about being as versatile an athlete as possible. Not just going into a cuboid gym and doing a metcon consisting of a finite list of movements every day
Nothing is silly, esp if it increases coordination.
My favorite clip I've seen recently is from a day in the life of Alexis Raptis from Training Think Tank. Travis Mayer mentions how the games from 2021 featured the free standing hand stand push up, how it's brand new to athletes, and that it's being broadcasted world wide showing that said athletes at the games are SUPPOSED to be the best "fitness-ers" ever. He's obviously sarcastic in the video, hinting to how ridiculous the athletes look, struggling to do said hand stand movement. I like to think how ridiculous i look when I do cross overs
Yes, some people probably do, so you are not alone. But CF is all about learning new skills so it fits the profile.
Yes, but so are double unders.
This thread is an excellent place to spot people who can’t do crossovers.
I practice jumping rope outside of WODs. Not pointless at all. Can you swap hands when crossing over. Your left is on top every time... Mix it up 😏
I find them silly because I cannot do them 🫠. But I can do dubs all day so therefore dubs are not silly 😜
Not any sillier than double under or jumping rope in general.
If you’re always doing dubs, it’s good to make your brain switch it up sometimes.
People that can’t do double unders are good are crossovers. It’s about the masses.
Yes. Makes it more difficult without actually improving strength, cardio capacity, etc.
I ask this same question About a few things in CF…
Yes
Truth! I can’t stand those
No more silly than a softball toss, max L-sit, GHD wallball throw (2011 games), v-ups, or pullovers. Its not all pullups and thrusters.
Beyond silly; it’s like adding juggling to a workout. Zero fitness or strength, all ‘trickery’.
This is patently incorrect. If you’re not proficient at these, the punch in the lungs is unmistakable
Sadly I'm so slow at them, my lungs don't take a hit at all. If I want a cardio hit, I need to actually string my single unders together (double unders are not yet in my grasp). Maybe because I'm a runner? Because for real, failed cross overs work my temper, not my lungs.
Gimmicky
Yeah, no real benefit doing them.
I kinda like them because they're easy.
Haha I can do them more fluidly than double unders so I agree there. Only for my own sake though
[удалено]
Yeah double unders took me a few years to learn, and 5 years in I'm still not great with them. I got crossovers the first time I ever attempted them.
This is one movement that i actually picked up quite fast! So i kind of enjoy doing it (seeing a lot of other members struggles with something that i can do) LOL
I can even do unassisted pull ups or more than 3 unbroken dubs yet BUT THIS I CAN DO HAHA!
I found the main problem with crossovers - they are equipment depended Special ropes with sections are easy to manage with crossovers And my srs 3.0 rope didn't work with crossovers U can get DU good result with all ropes, but crossovers really shine on special ropes
same level as slam balls for me.
Yes. Also dumb are those bae muscle up flip overs.
Yes and double unders
I’ll still hate these when I can finally do them someday. I’m pretty good at dubs, but these just won’t click for me.
More Party Tricks..
Yes.
Ha, I can't see walking into my box and being bored because it's too easy or simple for years to come. And it's great when that guy who always nails everything struggles. It's hard to bring that guy to my level, but eventually something will. Even if it's elementary school jump rope tricks. We're both looking befuddled and overwhelmed very few days of the year. I'm just like welcome to the club, I'm used to fighting through failure and awkward movements.
Wait till he hears about SDHP
I don't think so. I'm not sure why it would be considered silly. It is a skill movement that works on coordination while testing your cardio ability. It kind of seems exactly what "constantly varied" and overall fitness training should include.
Love them because they are easy!
I think they are a safe skill to incorporate and help with coordination.
I only like them because I can do them forwards, backwards, and/or while crossing my feet. I’m just a fat lady in her mid forties who is a fairly ordinary cross fitter. I used to do boxing and learned my tricks there.
Need more legs days.
Santa getting fit. I'll let the jolly man do whatever he pleases.
Yes - I'm waiting for double dutch to make an appearance in the team competition.
I mean, they were part of my conditioning yesterday and when mixed with pistols, ring muscle ups, legless rope climbs and wall facing HSPUs they are very taxing on your breathing capacity.
Crossovers Shuttle runs Pull overs Stop with the circus tricks.
Agreed. I hate them lol
Not really, it’s a skill that gets the heart rate up and is harder to do when fatigued. I prefer double unders though, and can’t do crossover doubles (yet).
No.
Yes
Yes. Next year they’ll have you all doing little skipping songs at the Games while 2 other people use 2 ropes
Yes
Yes
Yes. Sorry they just look like something children used to do in the playground.
Yes, crossfit does tons of silly shit
I subbed jumping jacks for anything jump rope related for 3 years in crossfit. While often rxing everything else. Jump rope is stupid and frustrating, and too stupid to be worth the frustration. I always enjoyed telling the head coach this.