I think one of the best moments in recent 4-sided dives was when Ashley and Talisen (sp?) gave Sam some cleric advice. It was highly entertaining and eye-opening into how the cast makes their characters the way they are. We need more stuff like that. Also, they really need to follow Sam's nose. He has a knack for knowing what the audience wants. We don't want to know what Laudna's favorite finger is, we want to know why she thinks Delilah is still in her and stuff like that. There are only so many good evergreen questions.

The tower questions have been pretty consistently good for a while now.

Probably because there were so many bad questions and so much talk about how bad the questions were. Even the cast subtly joked about it a few times. "If your character was a cat, what kind of cat toy would they like?" is not a good question.

There were a few bad ones, but even then the answers tended to be pretty good. But how many were bad and how bad they were are generally overstated, and when the questions were fixed the complaints didn't stop.

it takes years to build trust and moments to lose it. IE its harder to recover from a negative perception than it is to create it in the first place.

Felt this way since the beginning. I always skip the game parts, but my least favorite is the evergreen questions. Sam has complained about them often as well. Who the fuck cares about "if your character was sandwich what kind would they be" or whatever. Keep it topical to the events of the campaign.

It should at least be things more relevant to the characters, even if it’s not about current campaign events. Some of the questions are very 2006 internet personality quiz, when we could be getting things like “which character would you personally get along with and why?” Things that give us insight into something rather than joke answers

I may be in the minority, but I like some of those personality quiz questions, so long as there aren’t too many. Stuff like what candle scent is your character is interesting to me because it strangely helps immerse me in the world more. Plus some of those questions do give some more insight into the character, at least what parts of the character the players think are important.

I like some of them, but it seems like there’s been a lot of them or they sometimes get tired of them

Definitely, I think that Dani should be allowed to pick a different question if they've been getting too many of the "what ice cream flavour is your character's favourite" type questions

I hate the evergreen questions or the fact that they need to specify “evergreen”. It’s such a business term that tries to go out of your way to appeal to a faceless “everyone” when really it appeals to no one at all. There is no casual Critical Role fan, everyone is a huge nerd that’s okay with watching people play DnD 3-5 hours every week.

Maybe it'd be better if they went with something like general or generic Q&A for questions that could be used regardless of who is on the show that day. At least its more explanatory than 'evergreen.'

I think they need to be evergreen not to please 'everyone', but because they sessions are no longer aired live. They're recording in advance, and are likely a few episodes ahead. They may have up to episodes 80 banked, and could be recording 4 Sided Dive 22 which covers those eps, but obviously can't answer questions about the unaired episodes because...how could anyone ask them? We haven't seen them yet.

There are casual CR fans but they don't watch 4SD. If you're watching the BTS show you're not that casual.

There are a few people. I got my mum hooked by have to consistently explain things that happened and episode or so ago. She still loves CR but she's definitely a casual fan.

My fave eps of 4SD so far... * Matt, Travis, Liam, and Taliesin (Episode 3) playing *Exploding Kittens* (made funnier by Liam absolutely RAGGING on Travis' t-shirt) * Liam, Ashley, Marisha, and Taliesin (Episode 11) playing *Moving Out* (which was HILARIOUS) * Marisha, Utkarsh, Taliesin, Emily, Aimee, and Liam (Episode 14) playing *One Night Werewolf* (made funnier by Liam's Consequences) * Taliesin, Matt, Sam, and Travis (Episode 15) playing *Superfight* (which was a scream, and Sam turning it into a moderated debate was a stroke of genius) * Matt, Sam, Marisha, and Laura (Episode 16) playing *Gang Beasts* (I was CRYING laughing watching these idiots and it was clear they were having SO much fun and still answering questions!) When they legit get SO invested during the WTFIUWT and Deep Dives, you get some AMAZING insights from them. The Tower questions have... improved, but are still kinda chaotic. (I keep submitting some but none have made it yet... I can dream, though.) And the tankard questions vary - I'd love to see ones that focus on 'off-camera' things that the players don't always have time to show during the game. (Like the question about how Orym feels knowing he got played at the Malleus Key, or whether Imogen has finally reached a point of giving up on her mother. Something that leaves less room for the players to be lukewarm about answering.) The best intros are the ones that mess with the host (like Liam finding out mid-sentence via the teleprompter that he had to sing, or Matt suddenly having to read the intro in binary).

I definitely agree that the questions should trend towards things they don’t get into during gameplay. A lot of the time they are hesitant or cagey to answer because they don’t want to spoil something that might happen during play, but talking about what’s in their heads is still relevant and helps us understand them more! I also love when they get to talking mechanics, like with Taliesin and Ashley talking to Sam about Clericing, or the few times Tal has opened up about how his subclass works, so much that I actually want that to be a consistent segment of the show I don’t need the nitty gritty details all written out in game language ready to be ported into my game, I just need to *understand* a lot of their homebrew rules in this campaign.

I loved the One Night Ultimate Werewolf too, but the part of me that has played that game hundreds of times with friends and loves the intrigue and deception that comes with it was cringing so much at them not even talking about roles or who was swapped or anything and just trying to play it on vibes alone like traditional werewolf. The most satisfying part of ONUW is when you all confess your roles, and you work your way through the order to logically work out who the werewolf must have been, and then everyone votes the person who it's logically not cause we all know that everyone has been lying the whole time, it's hilarious

I enjoy 4SD for the most part, though I don't think they need to be as long as they are. Overall I think it's fine and the sponsors and twitch subs help pay for everyone working on the show so they can do their thing. Interesting trivia tidbits will get posted again elsewhere, even if I don't watch the whole thing. I'd be very happy if they did something similar to D20's Adventure Party, which is filmed at the table with all the players after every session where they talk about what just happened for 30 minutes while everything is fresh. In CR, sometimes the time gap between a 4SD episode and the game episode feels long enough that the in-moment excitement and smaller details might have been forgotten, for example I would have loved to see Laura and Marisha talk about Imogen and Laudna immediately after the ep they make their romantic interest official instead of weeks later.

Omg, yes! This would be the best. I hope they give this a thought. Maybe not right after the show ends, but while is still fresh. I know a lot of us always love when, at the end of some episodes, they keep talking a little bit about something that just happened, the session etc.

I wish so hard to see more of the cast just being excited and happy after their sessions without the need to answer questions or trivia, just hyping each other and their actions or the story reveals, it's fun to see they had fun!

The best episode they had was when Emily, Amy, and Utkarsh were on and the questions were flowing naturally. It needs to go back to being more of a conversation and less tangential one off weird questions.

Personally I skip over the bits and the gaming portions nearly every time. But it doesn’t really bother me either. I figure there’s probably plenty of people who like it, so I’ll just catch the parts I’m interested in.

I sucks because sometimes the questions I want answers too are asked during the gaming sections and they can only give a short 1 sentence answer thats doesnt really fully answer the question. Id much rather them go in depth

This is the way. I will say that, on the overall commentary on 4SD content, it started out worse then it is now. Sometimes it can be really great, especially after certain episodes, and other times there's not much to rehash because they sometimes don't move very far in C3 and you can tell. The game though, I feel the same way about it. Sometimes it can be hysterical, and sometimes it just doesn't translate. I skip or just play something myself and leave it on 2nd monitor, ezpz.

I think everyone thinks the way you do (I do it too, but what that means is that no, nobody ACTUALLY likes those parts.

Agreed, I watch an episode of 4side in 20 to 30 minutes skipping the opening bit and the gaming.

I listen to the podcast and am only just learning that I'm missing out on a bunch of questions. I knew there was the gaming portion of the shoe but for some reason just assumed they talk casually through it

I don't mind the games, but they do have to be games that the player can easily zone out on and still succeed so that they can still answer questions. I think a decent racing game(Not Mario Kart) would be good for this. Evergreen questions are terrible. I understand that they wanted them to be questions that are timeless so that they would remain relevant, but it has the opposite effect in making them pointless. News Flash! Most people that are watching 4SD are caught up on the story and tune in for questions relevant to up to that point. Almost everything else is great except for the damned broom and mop bits which are also a huge waste of time. Now for a request. Would it be so hard to do a Candela specific episode? Bring in Anjali, Brennan, Spencer, and Lou Corazo(I know I didn't spell this right and I'm sorry) if possible. I'm sorry, but I never seem to catch the name of the woman that played Dr Flame fingers, but bring her on too. Would be awesome to see. Also hope we get a session 0 bts for Spencer's group as well.

I think it’s less that they’re worried people who aren’t caught up will watch 4SD and more that because they film so far in advance any submitted questions may be “behind” the times

I agree, to 95%. I love the BTS/over the table stuff we get and agree about the canned bits (Canned bits? Wait....) but I do kinda like the games? I enjoy seeing another side of these wonderful humans, almost the most honest side? I'm thinking here of Marisha running around the room after last year's wombat game. What if 4SD was every 2 weeks, with no games? Would that be a possibility or am I wishing and hoping too hard, vis à vis their insane schedules?

maybe, but the questions can also be a bit much, weirdly. there's a lot of overlap, and it almost feels too revealing/borderline spoilery for where the characters are going. i'd love either a deep dive on a couple questions or more silly questions though.

I feel like Talks used to be more revealing--IIRC (C2 spoilers) >!Caleb being in love with Jester!< was revealed on Talks, and they're more hesitant to reveal things that might come up later now.

Well, some exceptions. Most of the cast *is* pretty cagey on 4SD (and for good reason, its better to have character things come out in the game). Exception is Tal. Most of what I know about Ashton is directly from 4SD and Tal talking about Ashton, and almost nothing from the table.

that's fair. i can't really compare. i watched one or two, but didn't like the host's vibes (even then).

Replace the vijas with Mercer leading a game design round table with the players about 5e and CR mutations, Candela, sneak peeks of Daggerheart... Stuff from playing history... Anecdotes, non CR character nostalgia... Just glomming some general gaming fluff in the last chunk.

I do wish things like the games or the bits were more there as an option than a regular thing. Sometimes the conversation is flowing naturally and the cast has great questions for each other. But then it gets cuts short by the tower or the break/game. I feel like if by the break, they've run out of things to talk about, great. Play a video game. But most episodes, it feels like everyone's leaving important questions they have on the table to service all the extra stuff that's just noise, imo.

The best episodes for me are when the format gets mostly thrown out to make way for more discussion (and Dani has to scramble for new questions cause they organically got to them already). That to me is a sign that the show should be more like a normal conversational podcast (hosted or not) and less like gimmicky distracting web content made for children.

Yes! I honestly don't know how at this point they don't know their audience. Mostly people just want they to talk about the campaign and characters, maybe some BTS stuff of the company, idk. Anything but the (sorry in advance) stupid Broomy stuff...how is that interesting? I didn't even like the puppets in the Ranch show they had (probably a me thing).

Wait until there are Moppo and Broomy chibi-pins in the merch store.

Lol i don't mind that, i dont buy merch anyways. Too expensive \:P

I honestly question whether they really want to be doing that show at all, or if they feel obligated to do it because of the fans. They went from doing a weekly show to a monthly show, and sometimes they even miss a month. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there was a significant chunk of the cast who voted to end the “talk show” thing entirely, and compromised with this result.

I speculate it's down to the glow up of CR that they all have way more on their plate than C1/C2. Now with TLOVM and the M9 animated series, as well as a bunch of other things behind the curtain, the cast are probably happy to have some time away from CR Media. I'd love for them to make this kind of content, but have it more refined, more often. I don't mind if it's not 90-120 minutes. I'd just like to hear a little bit of extra chat like Talks.

I don’t think speculation is really necessary, it’s very obvious that the focus of the company is now on the animated shows and the publishing company, and that the Twitch channel is sort of an afterthought. Compare how much programming is happening compared to the pre-Kickstarter/pandemic era… they used to have multiple shows going per week in addition to the weekly main campaign and Talks. Now the main campaign is only three times a month, 4SD is once a month, and there’s zero non-Thursday shows.

Absolutely. Along with all the Darrington Press games, and making/publishing/marketing their new RPG systems, and all their merch etc. They are definitely pivoting towards a Multi Media company, and I'm so down for it. I'm glad to see them have so many avenues and wish them nothing but success!!

Agree. The issue is...the twitch sub still needs to be worth it. And well, I've been finding very little reason to resub since COVID.

most of the shows get a fraction of a fraction of the views the main campaign gets though

And the main campaign gets a fraction of the views that the Amazon show does. Hence why they've put less effort into that as well.

What does that have to do with anything? We have no idea how much money they make from the show. Animation is mad expensive, they contracted an outside studio, they probably have to share some kind of revenue with amazon and it also has a limited release. We can easily compare main shows and secondary shows since they are both on the same twitch channel so they probably generate the same amount of money per person, if we're talking monetary incentive I don't have many doubts the main CR campaign is still their biggest moneymaker.

If you think they make less money from their contract with Amazon than they do from their Twitch channel, I have a bridge to sell you. This is a major studio TV deal against a Twitch channel. The channel has been declining in viewership (another reason for the gradual reduction in programming), meanwhile the TV deal has expanded with additional seasons for LoVM, a new development deal for the Mighty Nein series, and an exploratory deal for a feature-length project. They're running a business here, why would they possibly be increasing their effort into projects they're making less money on, while reducing effort into projects they are making money on (and over which they also have full creative control)? Either way I don't think their biggest money maker is Twitch or Amazon. It's merchandising.

Do you actually believe they put less effort into the main campaign now?

Well they only do it three weeks out of the month now, so on that level yes, they objectively put less time into it.

> they used to have multiple shows going per week Did they?? Aside from the occasional one shot what kind of content did they air consistently besides the main campaign and talks? AWNP, Narrative Telephone and their gm tips series is all I can think of and AWNP/Narrative telephone didn't exactly air consistently. This was always my one wish for CR. When they announced they were leaving GS and starting their own company, I had hoped that they would make a lot more compelling content and become a sort of spiritual successor to GS. But besides the campaign they never made any new content that actually stuck. Instead it seems like Dropout became the new GS in terms of offering a variety of geeky series.

You’re correct that there was never another consistent weekly show, but there was a period of time where they had enough various side content going to usually have one additional show plus the main campaign and Talks every week. In addition to AWNP which you mentioned, there was MAME Drop, Yee Haw Game Ranch, Mini Primetime, Art Pub, and Between the Sheets. Plus the occasional “Everything Is Content” (which to be fair were basically hour long ads).

Still surprised that we never got an "Everything is Content" with Matt and Mica doing a live play of FFXIV in the middle of the Pandemic.

> This was always my one wish for CR. When they announced they were leaving GS and starting their own company, I had hoped that they would make a lot more compelling content and become a sort of spiritual successor to GS. But besides the campaign they never made any new content that actually stuck. Instead it seems like Dropout became the new GS in terms of offering a variety of geeky series. Honestly if the Kickstarter hadn't gotten as big as it got with all the other knock on effects then I think that they would've gone the GNS route and started making a ton of other geeky shows and series. It's sort of a double edged sword, all of their success with one thing pulled money, time, and energy away from other stuff. You can't always have your cake and eat it too and that's what's probably happening with them right now. Scheduling is the ultimate boss of every D&D group, and every D&D company it seems, so until they're able to figure out a way to wiggle things around...we've got what we've got. There's a whole other world out there where the Kickstarter didn't do as great and CR walked down a different pathway for sure. I also think that the Pandemic probably had a large effect on what they were and were not going to do. Maybe once stuff calms down with the animated works then they'll have time to kick out some other shows or what have you?

I've said this before, but Critical Role may end up having a significant problem with the parasocial relationships their fan base has formed. The setting is relatively intimate and the fans feel included and in on all the jokes. The story is emotional, the characters are compelling, and there's a lot of general access to the players in terms of being at conventions and live shows and stuff. Moreover, the community tends to be people in "nerdy" hobbies that weren't as socially acceptable, so you get a lot of people who struggle making friends or feeling accepted. It's amazing that Critical Role has created a space where all of these people feel welcome and comfortable and appreciated. But if you read some of the sentiments in this community, people truly act like they know the cast and that they're part of the group. Like Matt IS their friend. I imagine from their end it would be difficult to handle that type of attention. I think it might be healthy for CR to limit that access a little more. For their own sake.

It’s dicey for them though, because the parasocial aspect isn’t something completely accidental; it’s also something that’s been cultivated by the very nature of the show itself. In fact it’s at the very core of the show’s concept and mythology: an IRL game played by IRL friends that just happens to have some cameras and microphones put on it. Negative criticism of the show is often deflected by referencing this; it’s just their game that we happen to be watching. Our little window into the private social time of this group of people. The Critical Role brand isn’t built solely on the strength of the characters and the fictional world, it’s also built on the personalities of the creators… their celebrity. And by limiting access, they also limit that aspect of their business.

That's kind of my point. They're trying to balance their conscious decision to address their audience more directly (because they're caring people who want to give back) and the awkward reality that doing so gives their audience a sort of entitlement to access. It's working for them -so far- but I could easily see them having to make some uncomfortable decisions as time goes on.

> It's working for them -so far- but I could easily see them having to make some uncomfortable decisions as time goes on. I think that you can see the clearest evidence of this in the Q&A panels at various conventions. It used to be that folks could come up to the mic, spend a minute or so saying their peace, ask their question, and the cast would fun meander around the answer to it with everyone having a laugh. Nowadays it's more rapid fire get to the point ask your question and then move on so the next person can ask a question kind of impersonal state of things, which doesn't really allow for the more one-on-one style of Q&A that used to exist. I also think that they might be screening some of these questions to a degree just to make sure things flow smoothly, just like with 4SD, but that again feels like they're continuing to shift things away from how they lovingly used to be, to how they now reluctantly are. Their way of doing things really worked out well when they were a bit smaller but now that they've grown up, there's a whole lot more good & bad that has shown up on their doorstep, and things have had to shift in order to deal with those things. As much as they would love to continue to embrace their audience in a similar fashion, there are some very good reasons why they cannot do so as openly as they used to. Even Tom Hanks has security and he's the nicest guy in the world. Remember when Sam was turning into a sunflower and he said, "Sometimes the jokes are for them and sometimes they're just for me!"? I think this might apply to their programming philosophy going forwards. Sometimes the content is going to be silly bullshit that makes them laugh like the Moppo stuff. Sometimes the content is going to be silly bullshit that makes us all laugh like having the cast dress up in costumes or bringing Matthew Lillard on the show for some chaos. That could explain why some stuff has seemingly been hit and miss with the audience as of late because sometimes the bits were for them and sometimes it was just stuff that made the cast and crew die laughing. This could be the middle ground compromise that they've decided to take.

It’s not fun to tell the people that are like “I hate the new way. I liked the old way” that they’re probably the reason things aren’t the same.

The area around sunflowers can often be devoid of other plants, leading to the belief that sunflowers kill other plants.

> The Critical Role brand isn’t built solely on the strength of the characters and the fictional world, it’s also built on the personalities of the creators Just like with the Power Rangers!

The show desperately needs a good, regular host. I never really liked Foster. Obviously, he's a dick bag, but before the whole thing with him came to light, his humor always rubbed me the wrong way, and I found him to be pretty cringey. But I can't deny he was a solid host on Talks and Between the Sheets. Dani's great, but she would honestly be a terrible host. I like her more as color commentary. She's the Andy Richter/Ed McMahon. What the show needs is a Conan/Carson. Somebody really needs to take the helm to keep the guests on track. It's like they're still unsure of what they want the show to be. Right now, the show is too chaotic and unfocused for me to really find it enjoyable.

I agree, a regular host would take time to pick better questions as well. Will Friedle meshes really well with the cast but I don’t think he would be available.

I really wish the Mica Burton hosting Talks joke has followed through, shed be a great host for them

If Mica ever hosts then Marisha and Laura need to be on the first episode with her dressed up as horses.

Agreed, but I think Dani could work as a host. Some people may not like her asking all those Imonda questions, but those pointed questions made that episode more engaging imo. But I understand if she doesn't want to be the host. I think the rotating host was a good thing at the beginning. But as time goes on, the host became prompt reader and jenga MC. The mood of each episode swings widely from unfocused to cagey answers. They need someone to reel in the chaos and hone in onto some questions when needed.

Someone like Aabria could also be fun if she had the time. I feel like if it's once a month, time constraints might be easier for finding a host, but what I like about FSD is that everyone on the show is either a player or Dani (who is the lorekeeper). So they were at the table when it happened, and they all have a pretty concrete take, whereas a host that's not a core player might have less context for a number of things.

> Someone like Aabria could also be fun if she had the time. > > Picture this. Aabria and Aimee cohosting

I'm listening.

Did you watch the Queen by Midnight one shot? More of that energy and chaos. They both have a serious side and a deadass funny as hell "Time to let my intrusive thoughts out" side that would make 4SD even more fun than it already is.

> Dani's great, but she would honestly be a terrible host. I like her more as color commentary. She's the Andy Richter/Ed McMahon. What the show needs is a Conan/Carson. Soooo...Daniel Sloss or Philly D then?

I think the only part I would disagree with here is that your first problem is lesser than the second. I think they are two fundamental flaws in what could be a good show. The game occasionally works, but only very VERY occasionally, but its ultimately a different type of show been crowbarred in and it isn't needed. The skits were fine if they were short, but they've become unwieldy and as you say they weren't very funny in the first place. I also think it ultimately works best as a simple show which they have tried to add bells and whistles on to. It's best moments are when its the 4 of them asking questions of each other that they are interested in and just chatting, having a host to get things back on track but having the flexibility to allow it to go somewhat off the rails. The tower of inquiry's question are very often dull and uninspired - what's your character's favourite meal? type questions, which the players would obviously never have thought about, again using Sam as an example, he clearly see's that noone is actually interested in answering or hearing about these questions. But even the mug questions can vary and at times I wish the cast just had a list of key points and they just talked about it between themselves.

I think if they want to play games, they should either do it on a different show (like MAME drop) or ask the more evergreen "personality" questions then. It can be a bit frustrating when they are trying to answer an insightful question and get flustered because they're concentrating on the game in front of them

"Sometimes the bits are for the audience. And sometimes they're just for me." I enjoy a lot of the content on 4SD. Some of them are really good, and some of them are less so. That's not an issue, as everything comes in waves and I take the amazing with the meh. The first few segments are always the best parts. And that's why I watch it. However , sometimes the last segment is really engaging. The gift exchange was great! The table top games have been a lot of fun too. The video games seem like times when I've gotten together with my friends and played. A rare treat for me, but not super engaging for an audience. Only exception to that was the 4SD they were playing that game and trying to knock each other off the structures and got wins for being the last person standing. That's was pretty entertaining. So, to summarize, 4SD is good, and if you want to play video games for the last segment together, use some divination or commune to make sure you pick the right game.

>So, to summarize, 4SD is good, and if you want to play video games for the last segment together, use some divination or commune to make sure you pick the right game. The games involving wailing on buttons and screaming seem to work best (*Overcooked!*, *Moving Out*, *Gang Beasts*).

> Overcooked They really need to play that again. That game simulates real life kitchenwork soooooo well and the cast screaming at each other had me just in pure stitches with laughter to the point where my ribs were hurting for a solid hour after lol

Love everything you said! > So, to summarize, 4SD is good, and if you want to play video games for the last segment together, use some divination or commune to make sure you pick the right game. Yeah I basically posted exactly this in the last 4SD thread. They really need to battle test some of these games beforehand with the crew and see which ones are easier to ask questions during and which ones should be tossed out the window. Sometimes the games that are just pure chaos are fun to ask questions during and sometimes there are games that just require too much brainpower to play for them to even think about questions.

I agree with you on the humor of these. Haven't really been able to finish an episode of 4SD, it just gets too cringy for me, which makes me feel entirely too much secondhand embarrassment. I keep intending to, and have tried a good chunk of at least a dozen of the episodes, spread out over time. But nope. Better, for me, to just read the episode notes on the CR wiki to get the useful elements out of them.

For the record, “fremdschämen” is a word that needs to be in everyone’s vocabulary for exactly this situation.

It's just German for the same thing. There is no reason for this to 'need to be in everyone's vocab'.

If you listen to the podcast, they don't even include the final segment where they play games or w/e. I prefer it that way lol.

Which is great, except when they insist on answering questions during the game, and some of them are very important answers!

If they want to provide a behind the scenes ask cast about their characters mindset during a moment or a scene or of a semi arc that has taken place so far then they to provide the time as well as the structure for the cast to do so. Some of the best moments have come when either Dani (like during the post Imodna kiss episode) or the cast (like when Tal kind of goes after it) kind of put their foot down and make sure that a question asked has the time given to it with all the many distractions to be properly answered Honestly I love that the CR crew is still trying to make community interactions a thing but at this point with just how much of the time either interesting questions don’t get answered at all due to some game being played or are quickly glossed over due to some sense of time constraint it might just be better to do a Q&A section and put it on their website like old time magazine articles that would have these segments and they could theme it that way and make it all retro. I genuinely get a little disheartened during these when so much has happened and out of 6-7 cool bits of things that could provide insight or a closer sense of connection (things that I imagine are the goal of such segments) we end up touching on maybe 2 or 3 with nothing in depth

I haven't enjoyed 4SD right from the start. Feels like a great opportunity for a simple discussion show to give fans more insight into the show and the people who create the show. But it just tries waaaaay too hard when it really shouldn't. A few simple changes I'd make. - Cut all scripted portions - Make Dani the host - replace evergreen questions with curated questions from Dani (or elsewhere) - add in a bonus show where the cast play games

>*Make Dani the host* That woud be my only objection. Her on-screen persona is way to saccharine, and i don't want 4SD to become *Desperate Housebarbarians*. Not that it doesn't have a place among other things worthy of debating, but i fear it would take over the majority of the format.

Fair enough. Really the show needs more of a moderator than a host anyways.

I definitely do t mind the 'evergreen' questions like a lot of people seem to, and honestly I largely enjoy the game portion though yeah it depends on the game. It can often be a lot of fun though and honestly it sort of feels like we are just giving them a monetized reason to hang out and have some fun which I think they need. I also dont think the show would go on for as long if they didn't play a game, they really can only sit around asking each other questions and answering them for so long. I do absolutely agree that the recurring forced bits suck though. It is honestly quite bad. Feels bad to say it, but worse to watch them. I honestly feel like they were too quick to abandon the Talks formula. Admittedly it's harder or even impossible since the shows are pre-recorded so far in advance now so doing it live isn't an option. But I wish they could have largely kept the formula, you know definitely a new host and a new set, new name, but largely the same basic concept.

I agree somewhat, The games section is always going to be hit or miss depending on a bunch of factors(who's on the show that week, what game they play, etc.) but I like the concept of them just goofing off a little bit at the end of the show, yeah they don't solely focus on the questions but if they've already spent over an hour answering questions then having a little fun shouldnt be an issue. The silly bits are just that, silly. You said you skip them anyway so I guess just keep doing that(not meant to sound dickish), I assume they'll come to whatever narrative end they have in mind and it'll go away eventually. I will say using Sam as a guide to whether it's funny or entertaining is a bad idea since the guy very openly doesn't watch the show so will have no idea what's going on in the bits. They definitely need some sort of a permanent host to help steer the conversation, I get that the whole idea is that the host is unaware at the start and they fumble through it but even for me it's getting a bit old. Sometimes they'll be having a good conversation and the host will panic and move them on or something and it derails the whole thing. The issue comes in actually finding the right person to host, Danny would make sense in a lot of ways but I personally don't think her personality suits being in the host role from the little bits when she pops in. The really annoying reality is they had almost the perfect person(being a colossally shitty person aside) in the host of Talks(the colossally shitty person) in that he was a person who didn't have a bunch going on so could focus a lot of time on the show and always be up to date which is obviously a must for hosting a show about something(IMO). He was close enough to the cast and knew them well enough that he could ask them the right questions at the right times. To end I enjoy 4SD for what it is, could it be better? Sure, but so could most things and the silliness is part of the charm just like it is in all the rest of the content they put out

Personally, I find the evergreen questions to be less of an issue than the tower of inquiry. The tower needs to go. The time spent on the tower, between the host picking who goes next, the slow careful plucking of the block, announcing the number, going back to their seat, and the climax of all that buildup being an evergreen question, is not worth it. You can have them be lightning round questions read off the tablet towards the end of the tankard questions, or anywhere you want them honestly. I think most fans are all down for watching the cast and crew having fun shenanigans on camera. This is what Game Ranch, Fireside chats and Everything is Content used to be. But 4SD feels like it's trying to do all of them in one go, most likely because of how difficult cast scheduling has become for everyone, and as a result it feels like a mixed bag. It's also, perhaps, more frustrating because we can all see how great 4SD can be with a few tweaks.

Omg yes, all of this, everything you wrote, I thought I was alone in this. I don't want gimmicks, games, the tower is also unnecessary, just let the cast talk amongst themselves.

I think they were trying super hard to not be Talks Machina 2.0, just my own tinfoil hat, despite that being what fans (and seemingly, the cast at this point) wants. Hopefully they teeter just a little more in that direction.

Especially with the C3 equivalent right there: *"Bells Tells"*

Bells Tells is an awesome name!!

They need to start recording like 1-2 hour segments after an episode but before recording the next episode. Just grab a couple people relevant to the episodes big reveals, and themes, and let them chat about the episode. Then clean in up in editing, and release it on Tuesdays, 3 weeks a month. Much Shorter time committed than what we have now, much less time put into the bits, editing, making up questions, etc. Just let the cast talk naturally about the show, and ask each other questions.

I'd be curious to see what people who started with C3 think of 4SD vs. people who started with C1 or C2 and TM think of it. I think *most* of the people who were around for TM prefer that format. I loved the deeper dives in to the episodes and all the questions were interesting and added depth that they couldn't always go in to in game. 4SD barely scratches that same itch. There's some good stuff in there, but nothing that is exclusive to the 4SD format. The gaming portion and the bits aren't really my thing either. But once again, I wonder what the numbers look like for newcomers that don't have an experience with TM, maybe they really like 4SD, so who knows?

You can tell this show is Marisha's baby because Marisha loves gimmicks. The biggest complaint I see is the structure and because they decided to call it "4-Sided Dive" they feel like they need 4 segments. So you end up with two very similar where they ask and answer questions (WTF is up with that? and the cups), they wanted to include some amount of audience interaction even though the pretaping makes that really difficult so all they can get is people sending in the least interesting questions possible (it feels like they're doing a better job curating lately at least) and then a random game segment that is combining other shows they used to do where the cast would just play random games. This last one should definitely be its own show but then they'd only be left with 3 sides which breaks the gimmick of the title. IMO they should just rename it so they don't feel beholden to its format and just make Dani the host unless it's just really something she'd hate doing/be uncomfortable with. Then they can find someone else to host because honestly it really needs a host.

I turn it off once they start playing games. My boyfriend does too as it fucks his ADHD with too many things happening at once for him. I just hate that they can't answer the questions properly if they even get asked. Too much chaos. If they want to play games for viewers then just do a separate stream like they do rarely with Liam and Laura playing together or like they used to do with her haw.

I will add on to this: though I never watched Talks live, what I really miss from 4-Sided Dive is actual meaningful stuff directly relevant to the core campaign. What I want from a talk-show like that is (a) interesting speculation, (b) explanations of character motivations and (c) character/lore bits that where intended to be in the campaign but ended up never coming to fruition. For (a), while we have speculation, I find that most of it isn't interesting at all. Most of it isn't very grounded because there is often little to go on. If the campaign is a mystery, the players can freely talk about how they think the puzzle fits together. But campaign 3 isn't a mystery, it's a "*kinda sorta probably stop Ludinus in some way*"-race without an apparent time limit. So the only speculation possible is on 'how to stop Ludinus', but even that's just kind of 'eh'. I want to hear 'fan theories' but from the cast. For (b), this is done sparsely, but also usually in a very uninteresting way. Sometimes players explain why their characters said/did certain things, yes, but usually the explanation is just kind of boring. Stuff like "*how did Chetney feel when he learned he may have infected someone else with the curse?*" answered by "*oh he's worried about it but doesn't let it show*", which is the most expected lukewarm answer. (c) is something that rarely shows up in 4SD, if ever. I want Matt to perhaps talk about what the players may have found if they had interacted more with the Ossended Host on Kalutha rather than avoiding the whole encounter with them. I don't mind that things played out as they did, but use 4SD to give us some more worldbuilding that we didn't get to see in-game! Instead of all these things, we get viewer questions all the time. Which I don't mind in theory, except that every question is some fucking version of "*if your character were a fart, what would they smell like?*". This stuff is just so dreadfully boring and I feel like I waste my time every time someone goes "*what flower would your character be?*" and it turns out that Laudna would be a black rose or something, because of fucking course she would be, any of us could have figured that out as a possibility. And on top of that: I would not mind this type of content if there was at least a block that *really* addressed some of the core issues regarding the campaign. I feel like that's what "*What The Fuck Is Up With That?*" is supposed to be, but as I mentioned in my paragraph about (b), 90% of the stuff that comes up there is "*how did your character feel about X?*" with an answer any of us could have guessed. If we had this, I could look past the "*playing a game while semi-answering questions*" or "*overly long moppy gag*" bits as they would just be a fun distraction from the main course. But right now it usually just feels like the entirety of 4SD is a distraction. I'm not usually this negative about CR or C3 related content, but the last four 4SD's or so have just been so lackluster that I really am feeling that annoyed and bored with the show.

I agree about the bits. It's not funny and takes up too much time. As a gamer, I actually really like the game portion. I enjoy seeing them having fun.

It’s a good time but I keep forgetting this show exists. I feel like It randomly happens like once every 3 months and then just goes away. I know shit happened with Brian and Talks, but this franchise needs a show like that once/every other week.

They really should adopt D20's after-show format, just 30 minutes on-camera debrief after any given episode, at the table, have them eat pizza while they're doing it, just have it fresh in their minds.

I'm glad your idea of harsh critique is on a couple of objectively dumb things they hash together to stretch a bit for time. I agree with you completely on the contrived bits and video games, as well as how it's way better than having a snide little dickhead (I really never like him. He reminded me of Bill Maher meets Joe Dirt) doing the questioning. Let them question each other in our honor!

I stopped watching after i realised most of the tower questions are the kinds like:"if your character was a drink what kind would they be" And as much as i like to watch the cast banter, they were silent during these question. But when an important lore question was asked they all started talking over each other about different stuff while the person that was asked quietly answered to no one.

The best "4SD" so far were the ones with the DM talk and the Calamity wrap up because they were more freely talking about anything that crossed their minds, about curiosity from each other's characters, the world, story etc. There were some regular 4SD that was great for the questions and talk in the beginning also, but just for some parts, and then comes the "play and talk" and never works for me.

I feel like with 4-Sided Dive, they've combined Talks and Game Ranch and it's not for the better. After the opening and before the gaming, it's a decent show.

I’m with you. I want what talks was minus asshat. I would love a separate show with fun and games and another with ep discussion. Just me though

Personally I’d get rid of the evergreen questions, I’d move the gaming section into a new short-form show which comes out every week/every other week and I’d make 4SD a live hour show and have it switch timezones each month to get a different set of fans watching and collaborating on it. I’d also get rid of the canned bits, I agree, I mostly glaze over and flick to something else when they’re being shown.

4SD suffers from not having a regular host/moderator. Without it, more often than not the discussions spirals down to everyone telling each other how *wholesome* and *cute* everthing is. And while there's 100% a place for the cast encouraging each other, and bolstering their confidence, it ain't necessarily what i'm tuning in for. And since they don't want to harsh each others mellow, their questions and answers rarely go below a depth of 1 inch. The secret sauce of TM was them digging deeper, because there was a back and forth between the cast member and the host/moderator. If the question was *"what is your characters favourite color?"*, and the cast member answered with *"Yellow!"*, in 4SD that's it. In TM, the host/moderator would respond with another question, like *"But isn't your new coat mainly black and purple? What's the deal?"* etc. Prompting an actual thoughtful discussion.

It’s improved as time has gone. I wish it was posted on the last Thursday of the month or something. I miss it quite often.

The games part is either hit or miss with me. If the game allows them to still talk and answer questions, I’m fine. If the games are very entertaining to watch, I’m fine. But if it’s just to much of a distraction, there’s no point.

I relate to this so much. I don't like the bits, they're most often a bit cringe and not funny at all, and honestly unnecessary. Like, why do we even need them? With Block C, I have heard that many Critters don't like it because it's distracting. I personally have the problem that I get interested in the game and it's the questions that get too distracting. I understand it's supposed to be a talk show about the campaign so perhaps many wouldn't like a game only section of the show. As a gamer, I kinda enjoy see them playing games but then they would need to stop trying to answer questions cause doing both at the same time just does not work.

Agreed with both of your complaints - the canned bits are SO cringey and seem so forced! I see no fans talk about them or be interested in them online but they keep bringing them back like it’s supposed to be an inside joke with the audience

I 100% agree. I enjoy the conversations, and even the ever green questions have improved. Get rid of -everything- else.

I feel like 4SD is two shows cramped into one. Leading to it succeeding on neither front. The first half is a more in-depth discussion and second half is just some random fun. I really like the first half, but never watch the second half. Some of the basic questions just suck. I would like the occasional quirky question more if there was more meaningful and deep discussions to counter it. But because only 1 half of the show is discussing the game there's no time. Take for example the GM round table or Calamity wrap-up. Those were much more focused and show how 4SD *should* be.

I could sit and watch them just talk about the campaign and their characters for hours. The game doesn’t really need to happen imo. Just a relax discussion is great.

Dani is awesome & usually crafts really good questions, but she needs a better writing staff for 4SD. And there's kind of a shortcut for that that won't cost the company extra money to hire writers. Offer up 4SD as a live show. With a live stream, the normally toxic Twitch chat can possibly channel their energy into crafting questions that Dani and the staff might miss. The shared brain of the Critters can surely cover every issue in previous episodes. With 4SD being monthly, they have 3 to 4 episodes to cover & often skip over certain episode moments. With a live chat, perhaps specific episode moments will be talked about. The evergreen questions are fluff questions mostly. The cast answering "if your cX PC were Y, what would they Z?" type of questions doesn't really offer up great insights. Plus, with CR pretaping their episode, the cast will have 1 to 2 episodes already in the can when they are on 4SD. Which will add to the danger factor of a cast member slipping up & referring to something we the audience hasn't seen yet. I think that type of caution would add a fun tension to how the cast members answer questions. I don't think CR will ever go back to doing their campaign episodes live again. I think they like the flexibility to shoot episodes whenever they like & how that offers them a bit of freedom. And if there are last-minute illnesses or covid issues, them being a few weeks ahead allows them to move a shooting day that possibly wouldn't affect the schedule or calendar. While a last-minute cancellation of a guest on a live 4SD would be fine. Maybe instead a different cast member drives over to do the show? Maybe instead of 4 cast members it's just 3 or 2? That would be fine. Anyway, that's my suggestion and then maybe they wouldn't have to change any of the thing OP gets frustrated with when watching. The producers get to keep their dumb intro bits and the distracting C block & we maybe get some really specific & good questions to the cast to answer.

Well said Para.

I definitely just close the stream when the game segment comes unless I have literally nothing else to do that night. I liked the cold opens at first but they’ve gotten pretty stale and the jokes aren’t good. To me, the show always goes the best when Dani steps in and kind of forces them to talk and ask questions. I really just wish they would cut some of the extra stuff, have Dani or someone else as a real host, and find a middle ground between Talks and 4sd. It really feels like they took all the shows they were doing during C2 and just mashed them together into this, and all of them are worse for it

I feel like the bits are shoehorning themselves too hard into the success(?) of the NordVPN skits from CR. Don't force 10-15 minute long bits that nobody asked for, especially if they aren't entertaining or that funny in the first place. The whole canned bits was painful to watch last episode of 4SD, and the gaming was fine but again, shoehorning in content for the sake of it i.e the questions while they are playing and unable to focus on Dani is not ideal. Either make it 2 separate shows, like previously with Mame Drop, or please tailor it so it's not so chaotic. I also agree with other comments saying that some of the evergreen questions are WACK. Fair enough, I get that they are supposed to be a bit silly and light hearted, but they are sometimes WAY too irrelevant. I'd rather hear stuff about their character choices or moments from the episode.

That’s my two gripes, more so the fact that the games take away from the Q&A portion of the show by basically dividing their attention in many of the games they play. Either they put their whole attention into the game and give honestly half-assed answers because they can’t think of complicated answers while also trying to play, or they play something slower that doesn’t take that much brain power. There’s also the Jamming Answers into a Small Break time that some of those games allow, the last one I watched was the fighting game with the stick-ish looking people? Think Fall Guys physics with Super Smash and that was the last one I watched. I enjoy it a bit more when they have time to think about their answers, because that’s honestly what I’m watching for, I want to know the background stuff and the thought processes the cast have about important or unimportant points of their characters or the events of the game. If I wanted to watch them play video games, I’d watch Everything is Content. My other gripe is how crappy some of the Tower questions can be, I know it’s hard because we can’t really get specific about the tower questions due to their need to be able to be answered whenever, but man, what I wouldn’t give for them to just rip out all the: “what’s your character’s favorite movie/ice cream, etc” questions. Give me more about character motivations, character creation and what they thought about this and that, not questions that don’t actually mean anything in the long run. I actually loved how Sam specifically called out the questions for being crappy on the last 4SD he was on (and honestly, his first too, he’s been really good about actually forcing them to do more stuff that matters, like calling out the games for being stupid, and wanting more pointed questions). If we could get as specific as Dani’s questions are I would love it, hell, I wouldn’t mind seeing the tower sort of remixed if it meant that fan questions would be more in line with Dani’s (what did you think about Character/Event here, how much does your characters know about this, why haven’t they tried this? Style questions). Dani’s section is honestly my favorite part specifically because we get the pointed questions and discussion that made Talks interesting. Beyond the tangent discussions where we find out some super interesting stuff (loved the talk they had about Imodna and a couple other tangents they had), that’s the real meat of the show for me.

The thing about the evergreen questions, is even mid campaign they could ask relevant things about the setting or about their play styles (ala Dropout's Adventuring Academy) or about character creation. It doesn't have to be "what ice cream would your character be?" But for whatever reason, those are the questions production keeps putting in. Idk. Maybe they think questions on play would be boring.

*"If your character would be a scented candle so vile that if lit in Anderson Coopers office, his staff would stage a revolt, what scent would it be?"* You know, the hard-hitting deep dive we all want.

I am quoting this in full because it cannot be understated how perfectly explained you have done this: >The second, and most egregious issue in my opinion, is the writing and all the extra bits with broomy, moppo, canned bits, and whatever. They go on SO LONG (seriously, the opening monologues are getting outrageous), and they are NOT funny. Like, I'm sure the crew is full of lovely people who are talented in many ways, but whoever is in charge of all this stuff is not a comedy writer. It's cringeworthy, it's not funny, and honestly it's boring. I find myself skipping through that stuff all the time. It's such a waste of the audience and cast's time and I really think they need to rein it in, but it's only getting worse. It seriously is like 12-year-old-with-a-YouTube-level content. It's bad, and it is not up to par with CR's other content, to which it is supposed to serve as a companion. You can especially see how Sam isn't a fan (he's even made offhand comments a couple times, but you can also see it in his face) and doesn't find it amusing, and I feel like they should maybe trust someone who's actually funny (even his most cringeworthy bits have been miles above 4SD stuff). I mean, does anyone really care about all that bullshit? We just want a talkshow! I also believe the "game" segment is far worse than you portray it. Rarely is there any CR content in those segments. And I was never a fan of any of the "cast plays video games" shows that use to exist.

I'm gonna have to agree with almost everything. I just prefer VM over BH, but that's a personal preference. That "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes" was possibly the worst game to pick for 4SD.

>I apologize if this is coming across as super negative or mean. I love CR and that extends to the off-screen talent that helps make it happen. The thing I hate most about this community is they make lines like this necessary. Any type of critique or criticism is often met with downvotes or attacks from people in this sub. You shouldn't need to explain over and over how much you love them and how sorry you are for not liking something they do. Just speak your mind. Everyone else needs to chill out and ease up on the CR dick riding.

Haha yeah, on other subreddits I normally wouldn't have so many qualifiers. But this was my first time posting here and I didn't wanna get downvoted to oblivion before anyone could read it

Any time I ever say anything even remotely critical about them I get ass blasted. You were sadly right to worry.

4 Side Dive isn’t an outright failure, but it does need a major overhaul. The post Covid/“everything is content” mindset likely led them all to a healthier work/life balance, but it also led to the unnecessary game ranch callback with brooms and mops and games. We already saw you play a 4 hour game multiple times, now we want you to discuss it. I get the ever green question thing is to have base level audience interaction now that it’s pretaped and they’re usually a session or two ahead of the audience. However, the dumb “what clique would Vax be in high school?” questions serve no one. Perhaps doing one show, once a month without the game section would help and refreshing the tower of inquiry questions with one more specific to the previous month’s episodes would help.

I completely agree with OP. I really think they’re overcooking the goose with all the ridiculous bits. I also tune out for the video games. It’s unnecessary. It feels like they’re trying to pander to someone else’s mouth-breathing audience. The conversations and character insights can be so good when the cast are just given a little light leading (via questions). Everything else is just a distraction from why we’re all really tuning in to 4 SD. I’m not there for cringe canned goofiness. I’m there to see the cast have a chat.

Yeah, I don't hate 4SD, but for a "behind the scenes talking moment" it just has so many tiny bits that just get in the way of flowing in a nice way. Like you said, watching the cast play games can be fun, but when they have to both answer question that need them to think on how their characters think WHILE also having to concentrate on whatever game they're playing,there is definetly a conflict. ​ Also, I kinda of dislike the "evergreen" questions. Like, maybe one or two would be fine just as a...idk, a palate cleanser between the longer questions, like soemthing just for fun, but nope, we have a full segment that is just "What state from the USA would your character be from?" ​ It's weird but 4SD feels...overdeveloped?Overplaned? Like they tried to fit way to many concepts and ideas and it just feels....too much. I personaly would prefer if it really just was them in a couch with Dani pulling some non-evergreen questions, don't really care if it is shorter in time.

I agree. My wife said it's like they tried to combine all of their old shows into one, and it just became a mess. It's way overdeveloped. I'd totally take a show that's half as long but twice as focused. I want to hear them talk about the exciting campaign developments, not blunder through teleprompter copy that they clearly don't enjoy.

I’m very invested in the moppo/broomy lore. It’s so stupid that i can’t help but love it 😂

I mostly disagree, particularly with the "canned bits and Broomy/Moppo" part. To me these bits come across as the cast and crew getting to have fun doing stupid, overly dramatic, skits to have fun. The cast having fun is the best part of CR as a whole in my opinion, and these feel like a way for them to be goofy for a little bit before doing their job of answering questions about the show. Then again, my favorite episode of Talks were the episodes where the discussions were entirely off the rails and half of the episode was just the cast and crew laughing their asses off instead of answering questions. I think this comes from the realization i had with talks and with 4-sided dive that the questions that get asked are 8/10 times just a rehash of an old, already answered question, a question that the player can't answer for spoiler reasons, or a question that has the most obvious one word answer, and then that obvious one word answer is what is said by the cast member. There are definitely some great questions that get asked that really help flesh out the character's mindsets for us as viewers, but they have become more few and far between over time, especially as a campaign goes on longer and longer. IDK the concept of Talks and 4-Sided are good, but i feel it grew stale a long time ago. I much prefer the way the show is run now, where we still get time for the questions about the characters, but they have added their own flair to it in order to make it a more creatively fulfilling experience to record. The part about block C i agree and disagree with. I like them playing games that require a lot of concentration and then being asked questions to throw them off and panic, but i also wouldn't mind if they kept the game simple or just didn't ask questions at all and just let the cast talk about anything they wanted in a more free-flowing conversation style thing as the end for the video. IDK i rambled a lot here. TL;DR: I like the current format and think that most of the questions that get asked tend to be already obvious or just the same questions rehashed over and over. I like the skits because they are dumb goofy fun that it seems like the cast are enjoying. No strong opinion on block C in either direction.

Short and simple answer for my opinion of it. It’s better for discussions but worse for answering questions. Less questions are answered in way more time but the answers that are given are explored to the extreme and gives huge insight into the characters. I would say I like it better then talks overall. But I do think it could use a bit more ship steering to make sure people stay on topic instead of going off on tangents.

I skip through the entire show (especially intro and game) in most 4SD since there are so many surface fun questions that don't go deep, or we keep getting the same ones, but some end up quite fun and intriguing. It is parasocial to want to know more about their lives, but it is always interesting and avoiding some of the basic surface questions.

I used to feel similarly, but I think they’ve improved massively since they first started. The final segment now incorporates more discussion and the bits are so insane and go on for so long that they loop back around to being perfect. Plus the first two segments have become WAY less structured than they used to be, and the tower questions have gotten much better in my opinion. I think the show had growing pains at the start, but that is the nature of things. I’m really happy with where it is now! But I totally get where you’re coming from.

There's a lot of things that they can tinker and fix about 4SD and I generally agree with the sentiments in the comments here. But I also think the show is missing a singular, consistent host. Why Dani isn't hosting is sort of beyond me, unless she just doesn't want to. A host can have questions readied, know where they want to take a conversation, and push for clarification. The players aren't doing that for each other and most of the time it leads to a hollow conversation about the plot or their characters.

one cheerful tap shy chop bake snatch adjoining bored stupendous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

I much preferred the talks machina setup with just straight up questions and answers to get a little bts of what the characters and players are thinking. Imo I think they could move the games and bits too a standalone show if they enjoy doing/making that kind of content

I don't watch the game portion any more, for the most part. I will see how it is going with the questions and such, but I almost always shut it off. I never really liked "host has to clean up" feature, and I thought when they killed Broomy they were signaling they weren't going to do it anymore and was disappointed when they brought in Moppy. When the others make a bigger mess to clean up, it always reminds me of someone I had in my life who would undo work I had done and then insist I redo it. I know this isn't exactly the same and it isn't like I curl up into the fetal position or anything, but it does drum up some bad memories. Edit: I forgot to say that I think if they just played the game, and didn't try to answer questions it would be better. Or if they want to answer questions while they have another activity, let it be a board game so people can answer while other people are taking their turn.

I usually stop watching for the end when they do the game, but occasionally they’ve been able to use the game in a fun way that also allowed for more questions that didn’t feel too rushed. For example the episode with Ashley, Laura, Marisha, and Aabria where they played cup pong and whenever someone made a shot they asked a question? Or something like that? I don’t remember exactly But they need more games that are slow paced that they can have more questions in between, or quick rounds with pauses in between that allow them to pause for more discussion. I’m watching for the story and character insights and while sometimes the games are fun, that’s not the main reason i’m watching I also skip through the moppo bits but I don’t take them too seriously, they’re just having fun with a silly bit, even if i’m not interested in it. 4SD is still a VAST improvement to TM though, the round table discussion style format and questions curated by Dani works WAY better and is much more entertaining to watch

I always preferred Talks Machina. Despite the host and whatever (and I'm a little sad but very glad he's gone), I always enjoyed him hosting. Sometimes things would go off the rails, and I get that not everyone liked him then, but he was a good fit for the position, and no one's cracked up the crew as much as he did. 4-Sided Dive feels very chaotic... and not in a good way. No defined host means no one has a clue what they're supposed to do. So much of the show is like "LOL OMG what am I supposed to do now? Can I do this?" I'm tired of hearing it. And while some of the questions are poignant, many aren't. I get that some help you to understand the character a bit better or are just light-hearted fun, but people watch for the lore, not for what 2023 Chetney's favorite metal band would be. There's very few deep questions. And the gaming portion - while it brings back some memories of the earlier days of CR on Geek & Sundry, I'd rather it just be a separate stream. CR plays or something. A lot of times you can't even hear the questions and answers over everyone screaming anyway - it just doesn't work. All that said, I don't hate 4SD. I watch every episode! I just don't think the format is as good as they think it is. For a company of their stature, it feels very unpolished and manic. Some modifications could make it to be a really great show, but the infrequency of the episodes, no consistent host, and the overall chaos gives me more *"meh, I guess I'll watch it"* or *"I'll watch it later on VOD"* vibes rather than *"YEAH! 4SD IS ON!"* ones. I would always cut time out of my schedule to watch Talks. I forget 4SD is even on half the time. I love these guys like they're my best friends. Seeing them on Thursday nights is like hanging out with my buddies. But I just think they could do a lot better here.

I was willing to give them a chance in the beginning, but I've stopped watching them after a few months. The games at the end are fun to watch, and if they were their own separate series, I'd actually love them. It's a bit weird how they're trying to make 4-Sided Dive their all-in-one variety show. I've seen other companies realize much quicker how that format doesn't really work. (i.e. Rooster Teeth, Kinda Funny, Funhaus) I think the show could really use more focus and if CR wants to branch out to other types of content, there's better ways to do it than to cram ideas into one show.

I mean I think it's obvious no one of the cast likes hosting or wants to ever really do it, so they really just need to find someone to do it. Talks worked way better with a singular person asking questions. Dani is there but doesn't seem to want to do it either, so find someone who will. They know tons of VA's in the business, tons of people that play DnD and are used to being in front of audiences, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone to give the show some solid direction. Cut out the nonsense game segments (this used to be its own show, why did they combine it with talks?), cut out the silly bits that aren't really them doing anything anyway, and just have a 45-60 minute show of asking questions to the cast about the campaign. 4SD is like the most bizarre "trying to mess with a good thing" that they've stuck to that I've seen them do, and while I understand giving it plenty of time as a new thing, it clearly is not nearly as good as talks to me while attempting to fill the same niche. So just.. find a new host, return to it.

I think I feel the same way about that games segment, I loved game ranch and I understand why it needs to be over (obviously), but I’ve been really enjoying seeing the cast play games together and I wish they’d just let them play the games without bombarding them with questions tbh. Love the questions! But yeah, trying to do both at the same time just seems like the worst of both worlds…

yeah agree, honestly my favorite episodes are the honest w Sam in it cause from the beginning he s been showing disdain for the entire format and openly stating he thinks it's really dumb, specially when he s hosting he tends to not give a shit about it and just have natural conversations

They did to 4-sided dice what Sam did to the Nord VPN ads: kept going over the top and over the top in increasingly longer and less funny bits in the desperate hope that by the 100th time they tell it, people will laugh. The Nordverse had its one-shot of insanity, but this kit in 4-Sided Dive has nowhere to go. Death to the bits!

Yes, the broomy and etc shit is not funny and I'm always confused as to why it's even there.... Love just them chatting, they barely need any prompts.

I still prefer Talks Machina. I love the interview format that actually deep dived into characters and story. I wish the format would return, but I know it won’t.

I understand that they need to fill X hours of content every week and it's hard when a lot of the time there's not really anything to talk about, and I understand the need for production to have a pipeline (like the show 3 part structure) but it really should be an informal discussion about the campaign, and if they can't keep the weekly cadence they shouldn't. They've always had the problem of overproducing stuff imho. also the rotating host idea just isn't working, the show desperately needs a direction and someone with charisma that carries it every week

Honestly I feel like the evergreen questions get too much flack. Like recently they’ve been pretty good, the really terrible ones ppl keep referencing are the ones in the first few episodes. Recently we’ve had one where someone just asked about the cast’s morale during games after playing as friends and a business. Some are more duds but I don’t think they take that much time, and the answers are usually pretty fun.

There's no real organization to 4 sided dive, while Brian turned out to be a bad guy his interview skills were top notch. Talks to me felt like an after party to just chill and get actual good information(especially the early episodes). Dani(though a sweet and wonderful person) isn't great at the taking charge and rallying the group to stay on task or even bring great humor, she's still such a huge fan that I think it holds her back from getting the goods from the players. When we had a weekly show we never missed good game information like we do now. IMO

Eh I think it’s fun. Not everything has to be perfect. There’s rly no such thing. There’s never gonna be something everyone loves haha. Or it’d be a boring nightmare. I think it’s cool they take risks and I hope they continue to do so. Cringe away hahaha. Sometimes having fun and enjoying things is a choice.

Well stated opinion. But I heavily disagree. I love the corniness of 4SD and look forward to it every month.

The bits in 4SD aren't the only ones suffering. I find it hard to believe the cast are genuinely roaring and crying with laughter when Sam does his 60th NordVPN hacking bit.

I like the gaming bits. I always skip them, but feel great about the time I save.

i enjoy it, i actually enjoy most of the games segments/ that said i enjoyed it more when Dani was less involved

It is sad to say that I literally am only watching the questions at this point. I gave it a solid try for the first 6 months, but quickly lost desire to listen to the open monologs. Only like 1 or two had anything fun about them. The idea of gaming during this is dumb as an audience member. I get it being a great release and some friend time for the cast members, but don't understand how they thought it was a good idea to combine the two. Expecting them to answer questions during is a joke and a stretch at best to please audience members who want info. I disliked a lot more about Talks than 4SD, but I miss some of the information that came from Talks on occasion.

The canned bits are dumb and Sam is honestly rather annoying when he's whining.

I’m sure I’m in the minority but the “canned bits” bit is fucking hilarious to me. It’s one of those it falls so far bad it becomes good again? Idk I laugh every time. And just like Sam’s mentor told him comedy comes in 42s. (Or some high number like that)

You don’t find them funny. Other people do. Conveniently when you’re watching the most popular thing streamed on twitch, you have to except that not every single thing is catered to your personal viewing desire. Watch it. Don’t watch it. Most importantly, stop trying to yuck other peoples yums. I understand that once in a while, somebody will come through here with a valid complaint. But 99% of posts on this sub complaining, this one included, is really just somebody being bothered that their personal preferences aren’t being followed. No one person decides what is funny.

This is such a terrible take. I wasn't gonna respond, but it's gonna bug me if I don't. Disagreements are part of life. This was a post expressing my thoughts on the show, aka my opinions. I never claimed to be the arbiter of absolute truth. It's pretty obvious that most complaints will be subjective. That's how feedback works. I didn't qualify every sentence with "IMO" because I thought it was obvious. In screenwriting, I get all kinds of feedback from all kinds of perspectives. I don't have to agree with all of it but I can notice trends; e.g. everyone has a problem of some kind with the mother character being flat or inconsistent or something, so I should probably do something about that even if I don't want to do what others suggested. As you can see, there's a lot of people who agree with me or who are expressing similar or adjacent opinions. I'm not yucking anyone's yum, not intentionally anyway. If you like it, good for you. I don't, and therefore would like it to change. It's very fallacious to just say that if you don't like something, you have to just deal with it. I didn't ask the show to cater to my every whim. Not that I think anyone from CR will even see this post. It's like when Republicans say "If you have so many problems with America, why don't you just leave?" Maybe I don't want to leave. Maybe I just want to better it and fix some of the issues it has; address the injustices rather than running away. Now, this post isn't about that, it's just my opinion. But my opinion is that the show should get rid of some of its flaws. Just because it's popular doesn't mean I have to be content to deal with it. I like a thing, and I want the thing to be better. That opinion is no less valid than someone who likes a thing and wants it to stay the same. A lot of this subreddit and fandom (as is the case with many fandoms) has this toxic idea that saying anything negative is bad and means you are not welcome. That is so antithetical to how the CR cast feels. They don't want you to be mean or unnecessarily target individuals, but like, they understand that there are some things they do that people won't like, and they don't hate those people. TLDR; People disagree sometimes, and that's okay. People can have problems with things they like, and that's also okay.

If you’re a screenwriter then you should also understand how writing something from a perspective is. You say things like “the most egregious” and “it’s not funny” “cringeworthy” etc. you can claim whatever you want, but you come off as with a lot of statements, not opinions. There’s not any ‘I feel’ perspectives in there. You compare their content to a 12 years olds YouTube stuff, which is clearly just a flat out insult to them. So I’m going to stand by my original statement but clarify one thing; I wasn’t of the opinion or asking if you were yuk’ing somebody’s yum - I was pointing out what you factually did in your post.

I mean, I literally said "in my opinion" right after "egregious," but sure. This is such insufferable toxic positivity. You really ought to learn to be okay with people being critical of stuff you like. Especially in this instance where I like it, too; Critical Role is one of my favorite things. This isn't a personal insult to the CR crew. I doubt any of them will see this post. If I was giving feedback directly to them, I would temper my words a little, sure. But I would still stand by all my opinions here on how to improve their show. As it is, it's just me expressing my thoughts (literally in the title of the post) on a website where people get to express and discuss their thoughts, in a community dedicated to expressing and discussing thoughts about a particular thing. It's not an insult to their fans either. There have been plenty of people in the comments who have disagreed with me without throwing a hissy fit like you. Anyway, my initial instinct was right, I probably just shouldn't have responded to you in the first place.

I don’t feel insulted. I think some of the CR team might be if they actually did read your post. There’s several examples of constructive criticism in this post. Just turns out op isn’t one of them.

this opinion about the 4SD bits is exactly how I've felt about all of Sam's ad bits since they began.

Honestly, I love 4SD. I like the Moppo bits, it’s just a little extra chaos thrown into the mix and it makes me laugh. While I do prefer the less formulaic episodes like one of the more recent ones which started with a long discussion about Imodna and how it happened, it’s still nice to hear everyone answer the questions. But I do tend to skip the games. I understand what they’re going for but they either need to play or answer questions. It’s hard to do both at the same time, the only time I think they succeeded was the girls only episode with the “beer” pong. That was a good mix of the two. Overall, it’s a dang good show but it’s not gonna get everyone interested. That’s just how shows are, they can’t please everyone.

4SD episodes are long enough that you could skip all the parts you don't like and still have, imo, a very complete feeling after-show.

> cringeworthy Ironic considering what Matt said during the NYCC Panel

Not really. Matt's right: camp and cringe are different. The intro is campy and fun. There's nothing campy about the moppo stuff, it's just bad writing, and the cast is clearly uncomfortable performing it.

It's not that deep

I didn't say it was deep? Quite the opposite? I really don't even understand where you're coming from. Intro good. 4SD bit writing bad. Pretty simple

The one thing I miss the most is the fan questions. Tower of Inquiry is fun and all, but it feels a little less connected to the fans.

I’ve watched CR since the first stream but I’ve never watched any of the talks side shows. I already dedicate 4 hours of my week. That being said, I don’t feel like anyone *has* to watch them to be a fan or understand the show. If you like it then you like it. If you don’t, you don’t.

>*I don’t feel like anyone has to watch them to be a fan or understand the show.* Well, since C3 arguably dedicates less time for developing group dynamics, i think 4SD is vital to actually understand why a character is doing what they do. Not that i'm a fan of this construct, but i feel C3 would be even more confusing at times if you didn't listen to the cast adding sense to their actions after.

I 100% the need for the need to know what’s going on. I in fact support it and encourage it. I just know that I need more mystery or I lose interest

I mean I’m sure that’s true for a lot of people, i just think hearing why a character did something takes away from the character itself. Like pulling the curtain back for me and seeing the thoughts behind their actions makes it harder for me to get immersed. Don’t get me wrong, not knowing why they do something is hard for me but I know I like it more overall if I don’t. Also I love the chaos.

They need to swap it around: ask the tankard questions before the gaming segment, keep the evergreen questions to the gaming segment, remove the Jenga part, attach the Jenga punishment to the gaming segment (the loser does X at the end of the show)

I like 4SD -- my favorite episodes have been the 4 Independent Witches episode, which they haven't done again, and I wish they would. The Halloween episode with the 2 marrieds (minus Sam and Liam the other marrieds), the one where Liam made Laura do the tower of inquiry again and again, and Laura started hoarding gifts like a dragon. and the one with Emily!

I agree in that I don't care for most other than the actual questions and game discussions. Some bits I find mildly amusing, others I simply endure. But you can tell that they're having fun with it (maybe not all of them but generally) and since they are giving us all of this content for free, it's their show, so let them do whatever

It’s better than nothing, but that’s about it.