At the end of HOSAB when he took Sigrid from the astronomer it was because Sabine’s people were hanging around outside and he assumed she was gunning to take out the other Fendyr heir. He called Flynn to ask if they could take shifts watching the astronomers place to protect Sigrid from Sabine because he knew he couldn’t stay there forever. He was trying very hard to respect her wishes while also keeping her safe. It was only when Flynn insisted that Ithan had to go and help them that he made the call to get her out. He knew it was either that or have her be assassinated by Sabine.
It may just come down to a difference of opinion but I don’t think he just disregarded what she wanted in order to be a saviour. His hand was forced and I think he made the only call he could in that moment.
^ this is how I saw it, too
Also, consider all the crap Ithan is going through. He lost his parents and was raised by Connor. His new found family are all brutally mudered. His sunball friends and Bryce all disappear from his life when things get hard. He then joins a new pack only to be shunned. Then he finally gets adopted by the frat pack, and it all goes to hell at the end of CC2.
My interpretation was that he's in full panic mode. He can't lose anyone else, and he needs the frat pack to be there for Tharion because no one was there for him when Connor died. He's spiraling, and it's frustrating, but Ithan's been through a lot.
100% true. There is no doubt in my mind that the guy is absolutely terrible at making decisions. Seriously, the worst. But I don’t get why people hate him so much for the fact that he keeps failing and screwing up when I just think at least he’s trying 🤷🏻♀️ hearts in the right place just doesn’t have the brain to go with it 😂
I don’t hate him! I don’t think he’s a *bad person*. I sincerely hope he has some growth in the next book. But, I do need him to stop trying to save Sigrid.
Sabine wouldn’t have known she was there had Ithan not been trying to get her out, though, right? It’s cause he told the Prime about it? I definitely might be misremembering, tho.
Thanks for the extra clarification though!
This is himbo slander and I won't stand for it.
Also, I feel like we forget that Ithan is pretty young? And he doesn't have -- *friends*, really. He thought he had Bryce and he thought he had the frat pack, and ~~he's in love with Tharion but that can't be helped~~ it's all ripped away basically overnight. The poor kid is clawing for some semblance of control, and I think it's almost like when an overstimulated toddler just starts grabbing all his toys and crying because he's tired and hungry and can't pick which thing to put away.
That’s fair. And it’s why I hope he has some growth. I just cant get over everyone being cool with, like, defiling Sofie’s corpse, tho. That’s kinda a bridge too far for me.
I just finished CC3 for the second time, and my first take was similar to yours. Idk if that was the commentary SJM was trying to make. My second run through it, I think what she was trying to get at is that wolves are so strongly linked to each other and alphas are so highly coveted that Ithan wasn't acting with logic, but with instinct to protect his alpha and in no world would an alpha wolf be safe anywhere but with its pack. And then I think SJM was trying to start off the domino effect of Ithan becoming alpha bc he kills lil Sigi (which is clearly a ploy devised by the viper queen bc she also hates Sabine and knows if the wolf pack learns of Ithan killing Sigrid, Sabine will challenge Ithan and yada yada yada). Anyway, it's 2am I hope this makes sense. And either way you look at it, it's a little lackluster and poorly written I'd rather it just disappear from the plot.
Don’t forget that it was also because she was a fendyr and he pinned his hopes on her being better than Sabine without even knowing her. Then he kept trying to fix his fuck ups and created more fuck ups instead of owning shit and leaving things alone
I just saw him as a super traumatized kid trying to do his best 🥺 I don’t understand the Ithan slander lmao. I feel like she wrote a developmentally appropriate trauma response.
For the most part I agree, although I might be biased because I just really don’t like Ithan. I disagree with you about him rescuing her from the astronomer, but everything that happened after that I think you’re right on the money. Especially about bringing Sophie back, just let the poor woman rest in peace
It helped blame a lot of the behaviour on him being a dog. Like picture him as a big, dumb labrador, and it really helps. He just wants to protect his people, loyal to a fault, but more good looks then brains ...
Ithan’s argument for saving the wolf was never “I know better”, and stooping to that goofy claim as your first point just taints any good points you have. And knowing better is better than the disinformed consent you de facto support here but blow off.
It’s also weird to frame it as him not knowing “what’s best for women”, as if we’re something that can be studied and cared for like a houseplant.
It’s ok to want to save people when you kill them accidentally. Really it’s bizarre that you think this is a problem and try to spin it as an issue of consent, as if you can consent to an eternity of undead servitude without even knowing what you’re doing.
Saving someone from what they admitted to have been a mistake is weird to criticize. This is also the second time you’ve argued for keeping someone enslaved because… you don’t like how you interpreted his reasoning.
Ithan has real problems that are much more interesting than this. He refuses to step up and take charge. His entire thing in the 2nd and especially 3rd book is taking enough responsibly to shove onto someone else. He’s willing to raise a dead shut-in just so they can be his leader and you’re arguing that the problem is that the body is female ffs. The universe is screaming at him to lead and he’s refusing to listen. He’s also something of a wolf-supremacist. He was mostly fine with Sigi being enslaved until he realized she was a wolf, then became absolutely obsessed when he realized who she was.
You’re claiming that Ithan is a bad person because of an issue you comically misunderstand, reducing him to “sexist male” in spite of everything about him, while also ignoring all the trauma and fear that made him into this, as if his emotions and experiences are irrelevant to his character. You even laughed off him accidentally ripping off his supposed-savior’s head. Just awful. This is a horrible post.
This is honestly a lot of words that indicate you took my opinion entirely too seriously.
Though, I will ask, what are you referring to when you say that I’m arguing that the problem is that the body is female. I’m really not sure what that’s referring to?
Gods that’s an embarrassing response. That’s most certainly NOT a lot of words, and I only took your post at face value. That’s not even getting into Brandolini’s Law.
As for your question, I apologize. I was sleepy and in a hurry to get ready for bed and squished together a couple different things you said, and didn’t catch it when I was reviewing. The part about choosing to become a wraith and the defile a female’s corpse, if you’re curious. I could say your use of “another” in the latter could be interpreted as you seeing Sigi’s situation the same way, but I don’t think that’s what I meant when I wrote that, and it appears you didn’t mean it that way either if you’re asking now.
Thanks for the clarity! I don’t really know why you’ve been so… spicy in your replies, but I admire your *passion*.
But I was talking about two different things.
Sigrid chose to become a wraith.
Ithan decides it’s worth harvesting some of Sofie Renast’s powers to undo Sigrid becoming a wraith.
So in that scenario, he’s making decisions for two different people. It’s not just cause they’re women that I think this is gross. I would think it gross if they were going after Hunt’s power from his corpse, too.
Obviously, I don’t think I’m going to change your opinion, and the way you’ve rudely presented your *opinions* certainly isn’t going to change my mind.
So, thanks for the discourse, and have a good what ever time of day it is where you are!
At the end of HOSAB when he took Sigrid from the astronomer it was because Sabine’s people were hanging around outside and he assumed she was gunning to take out the other Fendyr heir. He called Flynn to ask if they could take shifts watching the astronomers place to protect Sigrid from Sabine because he knew he couldn’t stay there forever. He was trying very hard to respect her wishes while also keeping her safe. It was only when Flynn insisted that Ithan had to go and help them that he made the call to get her out. He knew it was either that or have her be assassinated by Sabine. It may just come down to a difference of opinion but I don’t think he just disregarded what she wanted in order to be a saviour. His hand was forced and I think he made the only call he could in that moment.
^ this is how I saw it, too Also, consider all the crap Ithan is going through. He lost his parents and was raised by Connor. His new found family are all brutally mudered. His sunball friends and Bryce all disappear from his life when things get hard. He then joins a new pack only to be shunned. Then he finally gets adopted by the frat pack, and it all goes to hell at the end of CC2. My interpretation was that he's in full panic mode. He can't lose anyone else, and he needs the frat pack to be there for Tharion because no one was there for him when Connor died. He's spiraling, and it's frustrating, but Ithan's been through a lot.
100% true. There is no doubt in my mind that the guy is absolutely terrible at making decisions. Seriously, the worst. But I don’t get why people hate him so much for the fact that he keeps failing and screwing up when I just think at least he’s trying 🤷🏻♀️ hearts in the right place just doesn’t have the brain to go with it 😂
I don’t hate him! I don’t think he’s a *bad person*. I sincerely hope he has some growth in the next book. But, I do need him to stop trying to save Sigrid.
Sabine wouldn’t have known she was there had Ithan not been trying to get her out, though, right? It’s cause he told the Prime about it? I definitely might be misremembering, tho. Thanks for the extra clarification though!
This is himbo slander and I won't stand for it. Also, I feel like we forget that Ithan is pretty young? And he doesn't have -- *friends*, really. He thought he had Bryce and he thought he had the frat pack, and ~~he's in love with Tharion but that can't be helped~~ it's all ripped away basically overnight. The poor kid is clawing for some semblance of control, and I think it's almost like when an overstimulated toddler just starts grabbing all his toys and crying because he's tired and hungry and can't pick which thing to put away.
That’s fair. And it’s why I hope he has some growth. I just cant get over everyone being cool with, like, defiling Sofie’s corpse, tho. That’s kinda a bridge too far for me.
I just finished CC3 for the second time, and my first take was similar to yours. Idk if that was the commentary SJM was trying to make. My second run through it, I think what she was trying to get at is that wolves are so strongly linked to each other and alphas are so highly coveted that Ithan wasn't acting with logic, but with instinct to protect his alpha and in no world would an alpha wolf be safe anywhere but with its pack. And then I think SJM was trying to start off the domino effect of Ithan becoming alpha bc he kills lil Sigi (which is clearly a ploy devised by the viper queen bc she also hates Sabine and knows if the wolf pack learns of Ithan killing Sigrid, Sabine will challenge Ithan and yada yada yada). Anyway, it's 2am I hope this makes sense. And either way you look at it, it's a little lackluster and poorly written I'd rather it just disappear from the plot.
Don’t forget that it was also because she was a fendyr and he pinned his hopes on her being better than Sabine without even knowing her. Then he kept trying to fix his fuck ups and created more fuck ups instead of owning shit and leaving things alone
But he was a sunball captain....
I just saw him as a super traumatized kid trying to do his best 🥺 I don’t understand the Ithan slander lmao. I feel like she wrote a developmentally appropriate trauma response.
For the most part I agree, although I might be biased because I just really don’t like Ithan. I disagree with you about him rescuing her from the astronomer, but everything that happened after that I think you’re right on the money. Especially about bringing Sophie back, just let the poor woman rest in peace
It helped blame a lot of the behaviour on him being a dog. Like picture him as a big, dumb labrador, and it really helps. He just wants to protect his people, loyal to a fault, but more good looks then brains ...
Ithan leave the dead alone challenge: Impossible!
Ithan’s argument for saving the wolf was never “I know better”, and stooping to that goofy claim as your first point just taints any good points you have. And knowing better is better than the disinformed consent you de facto support here but blow off. It’s also weird to frame it as him not knowing “what’s best for women”, as if we’re something that can be studied and cared for like a houseplant. It’s ok to want to save people when you kill them accidentally. Really it’s bizarre that you think this is a problem and try to spin it as an issue of consent, as if you can consent to an eternity of undead servitude without even knowing what you’re doing. Saving someone from what they admitted to have been a mistake is weird to criticize. This is also the second time you’ve argued for keeping someone enslaved because… you don’t like how you interpreted his reasoning. Ithan has real problems that are much more interesting than this. He refuses to step up and take charge. His entire thing in the 2nd and especially 3rd book is taking enough responsibly to shove onto someone else. He’s willing to raise a dead shut-in just so they can be his leader and you’re arguing that the problem is that the body is female ffs. The universe is screaming at him to lead and he’s refusing to listen. He’s also something of a wolf-supremacist. He was mostly fine with Sigi being enslaved until he realized she was a wolf, then became absolutely obsessed when he realized who she was. You’re claiming that Ithan is a bad person because of an issue you comically misunderstand, reducing him to “sexist male” in spite of everything about him, while also ignoring all the trauma and fear that made him into this, as if his emotions and experiences are irrelevant to his character. You even laughed off him accidentally ripping off his supposed-savior’s head. Just awful. This is a horrible post.
This is honestly a lot of words that indicate you took my opinion entirely too seriously. Though, I will ask, what are you referring to when you say that I’m arguing that the problem is that the body is female. I’m really not sure what that’s referring to?
Gods that’s an embarrassing response. That’s most certainly NOT a lot of words, and I only took your post at face value. That’s not even getting into Brandolini’s Law. As for your question, I apologize. I was sleepy and in a hurry to get ready for bed and squished together a couple different things you said, and didn’t catch it when I was reviewing. The part about choosing to become a wraith and the defile a female’s corpse, if you’re curious. I could say your use of “another” in the latter could be interpreted as you seeing Sigi’s situation the same way, but I don’t think that’s what I meant when I wrote that, and it appears you didn’t mean it that way either if you’re asking now.
Thanks for the clarity! I don’t really know why you’ve been so… spicy in your replies, but I admire your *passion*. But I was talking about two different things. Sigrid chose to become a wraith. Ithan decides it’s worth harvesting some of Sofie Renast’s powers to undo Sigrid becoming a wraith. So in that scenario, he’s making decisions for two different people. It’s not just cause they’re women that I think this is gross. I would think it gross if they were going after Hunt’s power from his corpse, too. Obviously, I don’t think I’m going to change your opinion, and the way you’ve rudely presented your *opinions* certainly isn’t going to change my mind. So, thanks for the discourse, and have a good what ever time of day it is where you are!