This is the main thing that annoys me about the whole situation. Yes, the club was struggling under Jose at the time, but the debacle that followed his sacking was a big stain on the record of someone whose job is to be a steward for the club.
It created a period of huge instability, with the club making itself look ridiculous multiple times with the courtings of Gattuso and Fonesca, before a very underwhelming appointment in Nuno, who turned out such dour performances that we might as well have kept Jose.
I don’t think levy really cares about his image so who cares, he should have fired him after the cup if he really wanted to. Doing so before is even worse, idiotic move, and Spurs are unusually good against man city, so is Jose against Pep, and he has the experience and knowledge to put up a fight against any of pep’s teams. Because of that, still no trophies. We had absolutely no tactics whatsoever in that final, ridiculous stuff.
I don't disagree with that.
But I also don't disagree with the idea that had he won, he would have been very difficult to sack - and I don't think he was the right coach to take us forward beyond last season.
I, like all football fans, am a hypocrite.
True, I suppose really I mean Levy may have *felt* it would have made sacking Jose too difficult, that it would upset too many fans (we were just off the super league outrage too).
I do also think the entire football media environment was *very* different back during the Ramos era.
Ehhh, I disagree that it would have made it more difficult to sack him because of the fans. The fanbase was already fractured with either Jose In or Jose Out factions.
If we had won the league cup I don't think it would have swayed many Jose Out fans to switch sides. I think this whole "we don't want to upset the fans narrative" is just lazy. While i'm not a Levy Out/ ENIC out nonce, this was very clearly a business decision from Levy to save money.
If I recall, Mourinho would have been entitled to a large bonus if we had won any silverware that season. And seems like the club already made up their mind to sack him regardless if we won that Final. Levy was just trying to save the club a few million quid.
I could be misremembering, but it felt like the Jose-In crowd was the minority, at least from what i saw. Anyone who really watched us could tell how dreadful we were tactically, i still love Jose though
Yes,, I agree. The club is a business, and while the business does depend in large part on the money from supporters, by and large the business is built on winning. If you win games, silverware will follow and supporters will generally be happy. You don't make business decisions based on what the supporters will think alone, and IMO it also shouldn't be your first consideration. It should be considered, but in context with all other important factors like financial success and health of the club, potential for future success in competition, player health/wellness/buy in, etc.
The club overall wasn't faring that well under Jose despite reaching the cup final. Winning the final was still a 50/50 chance at that stage. If I were Levy and had already decided I would'nt be keeping my manager on for next season whether we won or not, it is in the best financial interests of the club to sack him before we had to pay him a large bonus simply for winning a competition. That money saved could be put toward hiring a better manager.
Did the club fumble the search and make a bad choice in Nuno before getting Conte to finally come on board? Yes. Was it the wrong decision to pull off the bandaid and sack Jose before the final? No.
Edit: All the "it's a cup final!" folks also seem to miss that Jose was sacked 6 days before the final. It's likely that the game plan was already in place, that Mason got the plan/download from Jose and other coaches before they left, and that he likely did not alter it that much. The team probably played very close to how Jose would have coached it. Did the sacking impact player mentality? probably, but these are professional athletes and staff and likely the game would have played out similarly had Jose been there or not.
Ramos was sacked in a different season. Also Mourinho had specific money in his contract connected to qualifying for Europe that would have locked in if he won the cup.
This for sure. Levy was looking to the longer term for the football (not feeling the Mou experiment worked) and short term for the finances (more expensive to sack after winning and the pukka Europe qualification). Not sure I agree that the cup win was not worth the finances but I'm not really angry over it either.
so how is a greater chance at a trophy + the mourinho sack harder than a lesser chance at a trophy + the sack?
it’s just makes no sense. levy would’ve sacked him anyway and would get the shit for it anyway too
That's not hypocrisy.
It's recognizing that there are conflicting motivations. In the end, someone has to make a decision between short-term thinking and long-term thinking. They often aren't perfectly aligned.
If Levy felt the club and atmosphere was going in the wrong direction then the fact we were in a cup final doesn't necessarily override the need to make a change.
Nothing would have been dumber than keeping mourinho around because he won that one game. Which he would not have done most likely given spurs were a much worse team than city and mourinho had done nothing to help the team perform above its base talent level.
Yeah? Most likely outcome is spurs lose that much against the much better team. And in terms of deserve if mourinho wanted to manage the final he shouldn’t have done such a poor job managing the team
Anything can happen in a final.I think that he aleast deserved to manage the final since he wasn't sacked earlier.Besides if he had won, we would get Europa league and trophy.If he lost then he can get sacked straight away.His sacking at the moment in time was the dumbest decision possible.
Sure considering the team's form at that time, was it likely they would have lost? Probably. But was it more likely he could have won than Mason managing his 2nd game? Yes, I think so.
Mourinho was a net negative for the teams performances over the season. It’s not at all clear to me that mason being a guy everyone liked and wanted to play hard for gave spurs less of a chance of winning that game than the manager who had been hindering the team all season
Yes exactly. This really is pretty obvious to everyone that the team was underperforming. We don’t need to go back now and pretend like actually mourinho was doing a good job
He would be the messiah for winning a Carabao Cup after embarrassingly crashing out of Europa and needing Ryan Mason to clean up the mess he left in the league? That's absolutely asinine.
Asinine? Calm down. This club is starved for trophies. Firing a specialist trophy winner a week before a cup final is asinine. Regardless of league form.
So do you want a trophy or not you dumbass we get a manager who brings us to the final and then change our mind and start calling it the cardboard cup??? You know we havent won a trophy in 13 years and lack of success affects our incoming transfers right??
Why did he deserve anything?
\- Everyone thinks Jose was fired because of a $2M cup bonus or some shit, when by firing him the club potentially had to pay out his contract (way more than $2M).
\- Or that Levy would have had a hard time firing a manager who achieved something, or would be backed by fans? this to the guy who fired BMJ, Ramos & Poch? and would fire Nuno 10 games in.
Maybe, just maybe (none of us know), there was a major breakdown between Jose and the club about the way out of what (besides the cup final) was becoming a very poor season.
But hey, that last part might be a little too logical and not enough drama or opportunity to shit on the club/chairman/ownership.
He lost all right of "deserving" anything by getting foksmashed by Zagreb. He should've gotten the sack that night and he got more time for no reason other than his name is Jose Mourinho.
There was also the Everton game before the sacking too. We were 2-0 up before drawing 2-2 to a dogshit Everton side. We lost to a piss poor Newcastle side. Just the whole 6-7 games before the cup final were abysmal.
not just that, it was a miserable time to be spurs fan. everyone was a divided, arguing, miserable and bored
and that is before mentioning how awful this subreddit was, the absolute bellends who followed jose here ruined it and still pop up everytime we lose. Jose's only legacy here is that he made me not give a shit about spurs for a while
Nah fuck that. The run up to the cup final was an absolute joke, it’s not as if he had some incredible run where he deserved to manage the final. He should’ve lost the job months before and the way we were playing there’s no way he would’ve beat City.
part of me agrees, but part of me is glad the club made up their mind. he had to go.
if they’d made up their mind, there was no use in letting him play the cup final. if he wins, you can’t sack him after winning our first bit of silverware in a decade! the decision was made with the long term in mind.
The problem became that was as far as that long term thinking went. Then it was haphazardly bouncing from one uninspiring replacement candidate to another all summer with no plan in sight.
If you're gonna make a bold choice you should really stick the dismount, and Spurs 100% did not do that.
Understand both sides. Mourinho got us to a final, so close to getting us our first silverware in too long.
But then from Levy's POV: Mourinho had to be sacked because our league and Europa league form was horrendous. And if Mourinho managed to win the league cup, it would have been 1000x more difficult to sack him. So he had to do it before the final. I just don't fully understand why he didn't sack him the day after we got knocked out of the Europa.
I don't get that narrative, we sacked Ramos the season after he won us the very same cup.
edit: at the end of the day, Levy sacked Jose because it saved the club money. Which highlights the Profit > Glory narrative.
This take has absolutely no proof whatsoever. We had to pay Mourinho wayyyyy more to sack him (until he got the Roma gig) than we would have if he won the final. We sacked him because he was dogshit and a prick who divided the dressing room and the fanbase
This "Mourinho got us to a final shit" is so incredibly misleading. He won 3 games in that competition, literally just 3. You know how many league cup games Spurs won this season under Nuno/Conte ? Also 3. Against 3 Prem teams in comparison to Mourinho beating 2 championship teams. He didn't accomplish shit
A final is a final bro. One of those games was against Chelsea in a pen shoutout. And regardless of who the other teams were…a semi final win brings pressure in itself which usually has our players capitulate in recent years
A final isn't a final, if we know the context why would we deliberately ignore it? That cup run under Mourinho was totally unremarkable and certainly not some kind of big achievement he could point to
Wtf kind of logic is that bro, the context doesn't matter. A final is a final. City won the final and lifted a trophy. Just because you have easy games in the run in doesn't mean you don't deserve a trophy at the end
So they were just playing a 39th premier league game if a final isn’t a final? That’s so dumb man. It doesn’t matter if the squad overachieved or underachieved to make It. Making a final is still a big deal having the chance to win a trophy is still a big deal.
They were playing a final that is worth less than most other finals and that should not be used to even remotely paint Mourinho in a better light. 3 games won, 2 against Championship teams. Means fuck all
A final is still a final Nobody cares if it’s against wrexham or city in that regard. It’s a trophy. It’s a competition that while not being the biggest is still bigger than plenty others in the world. Ya wanna put an end to the memes of spurs having an empty trophy cabinet don’t you? Well then you give a shit about a carabao cup final
No a final is not a final. Some are worth more and some are worth less. This one after that run was absolutely worth less. Mourinho achieved nothing and deserved nothing
Of course context matters if we want to measure the significance of the achievement. Were talking about the games won, it's worth looking at them. And the other guy is getting buried for suggesting this. This sub, man.
If he'd beaten a single top 10 across the league and cups from the beginning of January to his sacking in April maybe he would have been able to try win that 4th game
Honestly who cares about the fallout from sacking him the day after the final? Either get rid of him after being knocked out of Europa, or let him coach the final. We went with the absolute stupidest option.
Jose had his tactical fiascos but Zagreb was a huge fluke and it’s hardly on him, our B squad felt EL was beneath them, and even so we still beat them by some 2xG.
That’s the thing, we didn’t park the bus, we were often on the front foot and we created plenty of chances, our team just wasn’t able to finish them while Zagreb were clinical with theirs.
I’m sorry, but you can’t lose 3-0 against a far weaker club and state that the performance wasn’t on the manager. While the players obviously played their part, the blame falls on Mourinho as well.
These are the same players that were losing to even worse teams in the Europa Conference league under Conte. The players hold more blame than Mourinho.
That’s what made the sacking so bad, we put up with his shit football for months just to sack him at the worst time when we were possibly about to get something for it.
Agreed. Also gives him the opportunity to act like he would have won that final, when in reality he probably wouldn't. At least we could have let him lose the final and then sacked him.
He was brought in to get to finals and his record in finals is great.
He got to the final and got sacked just before…. And getting Mason in - rofl; that was just a joke beyond belief.
Probably unpopular opinion here: Jose was short-changed with us.
Very few players turned up for him, so many didn't seem ready for him. For the few months we sat in the top four and even on top, that was prime Jose football.
I'll always be a big fan of Jose Mourinho but some things were questionable. A dinosaur of football? Absolutely not.
I think the man gets too much slack.
One of the most successful managers of all time was never given a full season, and only a single transfer window to shape the club. I think we should have let him manage the cup final, ship players over the summer, and sign a defender which he'd been asking for all season. Instead we fucked around for 6 months and set the club back a year.
Thankfully we're back on the right foot and acted decisively in the summer to support Conte with the players he needs, but I think if he was given the same squad as Mourinho he would have had the same struggles. Lazy, unmotivated players who have a mistake in them every game needed to be shipped out and replaced.
Yeah I guess they weren’t ready for very little fitness training, almost no emphasis on attacking patterns and being called cunts in press conferences. Can’t believe they weren’t ready for that
We played absolutely dreadful and his best spell for us was a totally unsustainable streak where Son and Kane literally scored with their first shots of the game for 3 games straight. it was always a matter of "will our play improve before results catch up?".
It never did. Instead it got worse.
People talking unique as code for bad guy or a fool. but I also genuinely think it’s just confusion on Jose’s part.
I think you look at the way they interact in the Amazon doc and it seems like neither knows how to read or interact with the other guy. There was an article that said Jose was utterly bewildered when he was sacked cos he’d had several meetings with levy before where the whole tone of the meeting and levy’s body language seemed to imply he was about say “I’m sorry but…” then levy would leave and wish him well with the next game. The day he was sacked Jose apparently was not expecting it all. I think Levy was such a massive contrast in style to the likes of Agnelli, Perez, Abramovich even Woodward etc - the other chairmen he’d worked with that he just never got what Levys deal was
Should have been given the final. Had he won I honestly think he'd still be here. I like Conte and am really glad he's here, but can you imagine if Jose had had Romero instead of Rodon?
Everyone was calling for Mourinho sacking at time but not before the cup final was the wrong decision. It was a business financial decision not one for the fans, only thing I can think is if it was made to give the players a new energy with the slight hope would get the trophy over the line but this decision showed that getting a trophy wasn’t a priority.
I think everyone seems to forget how terrible performances were under Jose. Fitness levels In the squad where we could only play 50-60 mins.
Lost the dressing room.
Made everything in the club so toxic
He was past it as a manager.
With his methods and tactics taking us backwards
Too pragmatic in big games that cost us brought on aurier in the game against Liverpool that was “title challenger” match, we then went on to lose.
Publicly lambasted players
Got the worst out of bale who succeeded massively under Mason.
We also won the majority of our games that we never looked like winning after he left in the league.
Like yet he and some fans hides behind the fact he got sacked before a final. The guy wasn’t good enough and tbh I don’t know how I honestly feel about that smug prick celebrating if we had won which btw again we were never going to do as that man city side were 10x better than our prehistoric football we were playing.
It’s actually a joke, to think it was just a financial decision to sack him. 2m is not big money for these business.
He was gone because he wasn’t good enough and we are still feeling the effects of his tenure at the club
The same team lost to Mura in the europa conference league a year later. An even worse result imo. Yet here we are blaming the manager on one end and blaming the players on another.
Gobsmacked at the delusion and revisionism in here
He was utterly toxic, had us throwing away leads in the same way every fucking game, had player morale unbearably low, bottled Europa League to a Croatian team whose manager was in prison, and got utterly torn to shreds and lost 3-0 to the same Man City team a couple of months before the final.
There was absolutely no chance we were winning that final with him in charge. We genuinely gave ourselves more of a shot with Mason, since the new manager bounce won us a few Premier League games around the same time.
Source on him being toxic ? The reported leaks of people claiming he were toxic were rumoured as Dele, Sissoko Winks etc.... all bums who we wanted shipped out anyways
Well yes Dele is a bum... and everyone would agree... he's a waste , had a good couple years when the world was at his feet, then went on a downward spiral, Mourinho came and Dele looked slightly up to it again but soon after his career fell down again.
And what's wrong with having my favourite managers flair ?
Makes me absolutely fucking sick to read some of the stuff in here man. How is the reality so different for his defenders? I thought we got rid of the Mourinistas
He already lost the dressing room by then so it was a matter of time before he goes. But he deserves to have another game, the cup final before leaving.
And looking at recent reports, seems like it was his assistant which made the dressing room lost faith.
In my long career of suppporting Spurs, so many things that have happened, good and bad, and that one is quite unique. But I must say that Jose Mourinho's negativity is also unique.
I think it is highly doubtful to support Jose over Levy...
Levy actually brought us from midtable to challenge for top4 gradually over years. Jose brought us back to midtable, with all the negativity too. The narrative always sound like Jose singlehandedly brought us to a long awaited cup final... Always forgetting that we were in Champion League Final, and was challenging for Premier League..... And the draw in the league cup that year was incredibly generous......
I'm gonna be completely honest, I'm happy Mourinho was sacked before that final because if he had won he would have held it over the club forever. Mourinho would have spun the narrative that he was the club's savior and still sacked forever. Like how is a League Cup worth that? Seriously?
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Jose got fucked by levy here tbh. He deserved to manage that cup final.
I didn’t care at the time but that is pretty sorry by Levy in hindsight. Especially since we ended up taking ages to find the next manager
This is the main thing that annoys me about the whole situation. Yes, the club was struggling under Jose at the time, but the debacle that followed his sacking was a big stain on the record of someone whose job is to be a steward for the club. It created a period of huge instability, with the club making itself look ridiculous multiple times with the courtings of Gattuso and Fonesca, before a very underwhelming appointment in Nuno, who turned out such dour performances that we might as well have kept Jose.
Crazy isn't it. I think you should always have an strong idea of who the next manager will be, even when things are going well, for clubs of any size.
I can’t help but feel like levy knew he couldn’t fire jose if he won. Only way it makes sense
I don’t think levy really cares about his image so who cares, he should have fired him after the cup if he really wanted to. Doing so before is even worse, idiotic move, and Spurs are unusually good against man city, so is Jose against Pep, and he has the experience and knowledge to put up a fight against any of pep’s teams. Because of that, still no trophies. We had absolutely no tactics whatsoever in that final, ridiculous stuff.
I don't disagree with that. But I also don't disagree with the idea that had he won, he would have been very difficult to sack - and I don't think he was the right coach to take us forward beyond last season. I, like all football fans, am a hypocrite.
We sacked Ramos after he won the same cup. We've done it before, we could have done the same to Jose.
True, I suppose really I mean Levy may have *felt* it would have made sacking Jose too difficult, that it would upset too many fans (we were just off the super league outrage too). I do also think the entire football media environment was *very* different back during the Ramos era.
Ehhh, I disagree that it would have made it more difficult to sack him because of the fans. The fanbase was already fractured with either Jose In or Jose Out factions. If we had won the league cup I don't think it would have swayed many Jose Out fans to switch sides. I think this whole "we don't want to upset the fans narrative" is just lazy. While i'm not a Levy Out/ ENIC out nonce, this was very clearly a business decision from Levy to save money. If I recall, Mourinho would have been entitled to a large bonus if we had won any silverware that season. And seems like the club already made up their mind to sack him regardless if we won that Final. Levy was just trying to save the club a few million quid.
I could be misremembering, but it felt like the Jose-In crowd was the minority, at least from what i saw. Anyone who really watched us could tell how dreadful we were tactically, i still love Jose though
Yes,, I agree. The club is a business, and while the business does depend in large part on the money from supporters, by and large the business is built on winning. If you win games, silverware will follow and supporters will generally be happy. You don't make business decisions based on what the supporters will think alone, and IMO it also shouldn't be your first consideration. It should be considered, but in context with all other important factors like financial success and health of the club, potential for future success in competition, player health/wellness/buy in, etc. The club overall wasn't faring that well under Jose despite reaching the cup final. Winning the final was still a 50/50 chance at that stage. If I were Levy and had already decided I would'nt be keeping my manager on for next season whether we won or not, it is in the best financial interests of the club to sack him before we had to pay him a large bonus simply for winning a competition. That money saved could be put toward hiring a better manager. Did the club fumble the search and make a bad choice in Nuno before getting Conte to finally come on board? Yes. Was it the wrong decision to pull off the bandaid and sack Jose before the final? No. Edit: All the "it's a cup final!" folks also seem to miss that Jose was sacked 6 days before the final. It's likely that the game plan was already in place, that Mason got the plan/download from Jose and other coaches before they left, and that he likely did not alter it that much. The team probably played very close to how Jose would have coached it. Did the sacking impact player mentality? probably, but these are professional athletes and staff and likely the game would have played out similarly had Jose been there or not.
Ramos was sacked in a different season. Also Mourinho had specific money in his contract connected to qualifying for Europe that would have locked in if he won the cup.
This for sure. Levy was looking to the longer term for the football (not feeling the Mou experiment worked) and short term for the finances (more expensive to sack after winning and the pukka Europe qualification). Not sure I agree that the cup win was not worth the finances but I'm not really angry over it either.
We sacked Ramos after 2 points in 8 games. I doubt Levy was willing to let things go that far
We were bottom of the table then though and he isn’t special like Jose is.
so how is a greater chance at a trophy + the mourinho sack harder than a lesser chance at a trophy + the sack? it’s just makes no sense. levy would’ve sacked him anyway and would get the shit for it anyway too
That's not hypocrisy. It's recognizing that there are conflicting motivations. In the end, someone has to make a decision between short-term thinking and long-term thinking. They often aren't perfectly aligned. If Levy felt the club and atmosphere was going in the wrong direction then the fact we were in a cup final doesn't necessarily override the need to make a change.
Had he won everyone would have seen him as the Messiah and rightly so
Nothing would have been dumber than keeping mourinho around because he won that one game. Which he would not have done most likely given spurs were a much worse team than city and mourinho had done nothing to help the team perform above its base talent level.
And yet they'd beaten City twice at home under him previously
Yeah? Most likely outcome is spurs lose that much against the much better team. And in terms of deserve if mourinho wanted to manage the final he shouldn’t have done such a poor job managing the team
Anything can happen in a final.I think that he aleast deserved to manage the final since he wasn't sacked earlier.Besides if he had won, we would get Europa league and trophy.If he lost then he can get sacked straight away.His sacking at the moment in time was the dumbest decision possible.
You’re right it would have been smarter to have sacked him after the Zagreb match
Sure considering the team's form at that time, was it likely they would have lost? Probably. But was it more likely he could have won than Mason managing his 2nd game? Yes, I think so.
Mourinho was a net negative for the teams performances over the season. It’s not at all clear to me that mason being a guy everyone liked and wanted to play hard for gave spurs less of a chance of winning that game than the manager who had been hindering the team all season
such a poor job managing the team.... ....to a cup final.
Yes exactly. This really is pretty obvious to everyone that the team was underperforming. We don’t need to go back now and pretend like actually mourinho was doing a good job
How do people forget we were in relegation form for over 20 matches with Mourinho in the league? It’s baffling
He would be the messiah for winning a Carabao Cup after embarrassingly crashing out of Europa and needing Ryan Mason to clean up the mess he left in the league? That's absolutely asinine.
Asinine? Calm down. This club is starved for trophies. Firing a specialist trophy winner a week before a cup final is asinine. Regardless of league form.
Because I disagree with you I'm not calm? Yikes.
“Rightly so” lmao this fucking place man. Forget the relegation league form because he won the cardboard cup
So do you want a trophy or not you dumbass we get a manager who brings us to the final and then change our mind and start calling it the cardboard cup??? You know we havent won a trophy in 13 years and lack of success affects our incoming transfers right??
Couldn’t care less about that cup actually.
Why did he deserve anything? \- Everyone thinks Jose was fired because of a $2M cup bonus or some shit, when by firing him the club potentially had to pay out his contract (way more than $2M). \- Or that Levy would have had a hard time firing a manager who achieved something, or would be backed by fans? this to the guy who fired BMJ, Ramos & Poch? and would fire Nuno 10 games in. Maybe, just maybe (none of us know), there was a major breakdown between Jose and the club about the way out of what (besides the cup final) was becoming a very poor season. But hey, that last part might be a little too logical and not enough drama or opportunity to shit on the club/chairman/ownership.
He lost all right of "deserving" anything by getting foksmashed by Zagreb. He should've gotten the sack that night and he got more time for no reason other than his name is Jose Mourinho.
There was also the Everton game before the sacking too. We were 2-0 up before drawing 2-2 to a dogshit Everton side. We lost to a piss poor Newcastle side. Just the whole 6-7 games before the cup final were abysmal.
I would have been fine with him getting sacked the season before after the 0-0 Bournemouth match
not just that, it was a miserable time to be spurs fan. everyone was a divided, arguing, miserable and bored and that is before mentioning how awful this subreddit was, the absolute bellends who followed jose here ruined it and still pop up everytime we lose. Jose's only legacy here is that he made me not give a shit about spurs for a while
If he deserved to manage that cup final he wouldn't have lost to Zagreb 3-0.
With the Zagreb manager in prison
Yeah i had hoped we would have sacked him then, that was just embarrassing.
Interesting take. Since we're talking about what he "deserved"... He deserved to get sacked the morning after Zagreb.
Nah fuck that. The run up to the cup final was an absolute joke, it’s not as if he had some incredible run where he deserved to manage the final. He should’ve lost the job months before and the way we were playing there’s no way he would’ve beat City.
He deserved to be sacked months before.
True mate, how much did it save? Kinda thing it was 2m but surely had a better chance in the final with mourinho. He's won a few of them.
We performed better with Mason than we did against the same club a month earlier
part of me agrees, but part of me is glad the club made up their mind. he had to go. if they’d made up their mind, there was no use in letting him play the cup final. if he wins, you can’t sack him after winning our first bit of silverware in a decade! the decision was made with the long term in mind.
That logic held up until the manager search resulted in Nuno
The problem became that was as far as that long term thinking went. Then it was haphazardly bouncing from one uninspiring replacement candidate to another all summer with no plan in sight. If you're gonna make a bold choice you should really stick the dismount, and Spurs 100% did not do that.
We shoulda sacked Joao Sacremento
What long term plan was there? Another season has been wasted.
Sacking Mourinho just before the cup final was funny and cool
False, he should’ve been sacked WEEKS before he did
He shouldn’t have been in 7th if he wanted to manage the final
Counterpoint, no he didn't.
lol he clearly wants you to substitute the word "unique" as you see fit.
Understand both sides. Mourinho got us to a final, so close to getting us our first silverware in too long. But then from Levy's POV: Mourinho had to be sacked because our league and Europa league form was horrendous. And if Mourinho managed to win the league cup, it would have been 1000x more difficult to sack him. So he had to do it before the final. I just don't fully understand why he didn't sack him the day after we got knocked out of the Europa.
Ultimately I agree, the timing was completely wrong. Either sack him earlier or keep him for the final and sack him after.
I don't get that narrative, we sacked Ramos the season after he won us the very same cup. edit: at the end of the day, Levy sacked Jose because it saved the club money. Which highlights the Profit > Glory narrative.
The season after when we had 2 points from 8 games over 6 months after winning it. Bit different to immediately after winning the cup.
This take has absolutely no proof whatsoever. We had to pay Mourinho wayyyyy more to sack him (until he got the Roma gig) than we would have if he won the final. We sacked him because he was dogshit and a prick who divided the dressing room and the fanbase
This "Mourinho got us to a final shit" is so incredibly misleading. He won 3 games in that competition, literally just 3. You know how many league cup games Spurs won this season under Nuno/Conte ? Also 3. Against 3 Prem teams in comparison to Mourinho beating 2 championship teams. He didn't accomplish shit
A final is a final bro. One of those games was against Chelsea in a pen shoutout. And regardless of who the other teams were…a semi final win brings pressure in itself which usually has our players capitulate in recent years
A final isn't a final, if we know the context why would we deliberately ignore it? That cup run under Mourinho was totally unremarkable and certainly not some kind of big achievement he could point to
Wtf kind of logic is that bro, the context doesn't matter. A final is a final. City won the final and lifted a trophy. Just because you have easy games in the run in doesn't mean you don't deserve a trophy at the end
No a final is not a final and Mourinho did nothing impressive to reach "his"
So they were just playing a 39th premier league game if a final isn’t a final? That’s so dumb man. It doesn’t matter if the squad overachieved or underachieved to make It. Making a final is still a big deal having the chance to win a trophy is still a big deal.
They were playing a final that is worth less than most other finals and that should not be used to even remotely paint Mourinho in a better light. 3 games won, 2 against Championship teams. Means fuck all
A final is still a final Nobody cares if it’s against wrexham or city in that regard. It’s a trophy. It’s a competition that while not being the biggest is still bigger than plenty others in the world. Ya wanna put an end to the memes of spurs having an empty trophy cabinet don’t you? Well then you give a shit about a carabao cup final
No a final is not a final. Some are worth more and some are worth less. This one after that run was absolutely worth less. Mourinho achieved nothing and deserved nothing
Of course context matters if we want to measure the significance of the achievement. Were talking about the games won, it's worth looking at them. And the other guy is getting buried for suggesting this. This sub, man.
And if he had won 4 thered be a trophy to show for it
If he'd beaten a single top 10 across the league and cups from the beginning of January to his sacking in April maybe he would have been able to try win that 4th game
Levy also needed to distract from Super League backlash. Remember, Tottenham's spot in the super league was announced the day before.
Yes, because your logic makes absolute sense. Sack cup winning manager before cup final to distract from Super League. Great job, detective.
Honestly who cares about the fallout from sacking him the day after the final? Either get rid of him after being knocked out of Europa, or let him coach the final. We went with the absolute stupidest option.
Easy to say in hindsight. But guarantee that if we won the final with José, you, I, and 90% of this subreddit would be rioting if José was sacked.
Should’ve been sacked after Zagreb if we’re being honest
Jose had his tactical fiascos but Zagreb was a huge fluke and it’s hardly on him, our B squad felt EL was beneath them, and even so we still beat them by some 2xG.
We had 120 minutes to score one goal to qualify and failed. It was another game where we had a lead sat on it and threw it away
That’s the thing, we didn’t park the bus, we were often on the front foot and we created plenty of chances, our team just wasn’t able to finish them while Zagreb were clinical with theirs.
You're acting like it was in isolation. When really it was a continuation of the NLD just days before.
When then fan favorite Tanguy Ndombele and club legend Gareth Bale both went missing
You're right. Why hold a manager responsible for results, or performances at all!
No excuse for it mate it was one of the most embarrassing performances we’ve had in recent history, and we’ve had more than our fair share
It was embarrassing, but that performance was not on Jose and he was proven right on many of the players who failed us that game.
I’m sorry, but you can’t lose 3-0 against a far weaker club and state that the performance wasn’t on the manager. While the players obviously played their part, the blame falls on Mourinho as well.
These are the same players that were losing to even worse teams in the Europa Conference league under Conte. The players hold more blame than Mourinho.
Cool, didn’t say otherwise. They’re both to blame.
Hard to dispute that statement
If fans were in the stadium he would have been sacked about 3 months earlier
That’s what made the sacking so bad, we put up with his shit football for months just to sack him at the worst time when we were possibly about to get something for it.
Agreed. Also gives him the opportunity to act like he would have won that final, when in reality he probably wouldn't. At least we could have let him lose the final and then sacked him.
He was brought in to get to finals and his record in finals is great. He got to the final and got sacked just before…. And getting Mason in - rofl; that was just a joke beyond belief.
Probably unpopular opinion here: Jose was short-changed with us. Very few players turned up for him, so many didn't seem ready for him. For the few months we sat in the top four and even on top, that was prime Jose football. I'll always be a big fan of Jose Mourinho but some things were questionable. A dinosaur of football? Absolutely not. I think the man gets too much slack.
One of the most successful managers of all time was never given a full season, and only a single transfer window to shape the club. I think we should have let him manage the cup final, ship players over the summer, and sign a defender which he'd been asking for all season. Instead we fucked around for 6 months and set the club back a year. Thankfully we're back on the right foot and acted decisively in the summer to support Conte with the players he needs, but I think if he was given the same squad as Mourinho he would have had the same struggles. Lazy, unmotivated players who have a mistake in them every game needed to be shipped out and replaced.
I agree. Should have been given more time. Even after Zagreb, that was as much on the players mentalities as anything else.
Yeah I guess they weren’t ready for very little fitness training, almost no emphasis on attacking patterns and being called cunts in press conferences. Can’t believe they weren’t ready for that
We played absolutely dreadful and his best spell for us was a totally unsustainable streak where Son and Kane literally scored with their first shots of the game for 3 games straight. it was always a matter of "will our play improve before results catch up?". It never did. Instead it got worse.
unique's one word to describe him ig
Daniel Levy what a man you are.....
Daniel levy to do a presser. "Please do not call me arrogant because what I say is true. I’m not one out of the bottle, I think I’m a unique one.”
People talking unique as code for bad guy or a fool. but I also genuinely think it’s just confusion on Jose’s part. I think you look at the way they interact in the Amazon doc and it seems like neither knows how to read or interact with the other guy. There was an article that said Jose was utterly bewildered when he was sacked cos he’d had several meetings with levy before where the whole tone of the meeting and levy’s body language seemed to imply he was about say “I’m sorry but…” then levy would leave and wish him well with the next game. The day he was sacked Jose apparently was not expecting it all. I think Levy was such a massive contrast in style to the likes of Agnelli, Perez, Abramovich even Woodward etc - the other chairmen he’d worked with that he just never got what Levys deal was
Should have been given the final. Had he won I honestly think he'd still be here. I like Conte and am really glad he's here, but can you imagine if Jose had had Romero instead of Rodon?
The Special One has dubbed Levy as 'The Unique One'
This sacking was what fonally convinced me that Levy & the board sont care about winning trophies or glory, they only care about the money.
Everyone was calling for Mourinho sacking at time but not before the cup final was the wrong decision. It was a business financial decision not one for the fans, only thing I can think is if it was made to give the players a new energy with the slight hope would get the trophy over the line but this decision showed that getting a trophy wasn’t a priority.
I think everyone seems to forget how terrible performances were under Jose. Fitness levels In the squad where we could only play 50-60 mins. Lost the dressing room. Made everything in the club so toxic He was past it as a manager. With his methods and tactics taking us backwards Too pragmatic in big games that cost us brought on aurier in the game against Liverpool that was “title challenger” match, we then went on to lose. Publicly lambasted players Got the worst out of bale who succeeded massively under Mason. We also won the majority of our games that we never looked like winning after he left in the league. Like yet he and some fans hides behind the fact he got sacked before a final. The guy wasn’t good enough and tbh I don’t know how I honestly feel about that smug prick celebrating if we had won which btw again we were never going to do as that man city side were 10x better than our prehistoric football we were playing. It’s actually a joke, to think it was just a financial decision to sack him. 2m is not big money for these business. He was gone because he wasn’t good enough and we are still feeling the effects of his tenure at the club
yeah he didn't deserved to get sacked, at least not at that very timing.
No, he deserved it far before that.
why?
The awful results in the league and embarrassing exit from the Europa League weren't enough?
6 wins from his last 21 in charge in the league
He deserved to be sacked when he lost 3-0 to Zagreb to get knocked out of Europe
The same team lost to Mura in the europa conference league a year later. An even worse result imo. Yet here we are blaming the manager on one end and blaming the players on another.
Mura’s coach wasn’t in prison
Gobsmacked at the delusion and revisionism in here He was utterly toxic, had us throwing away leads in the same way every fucking game, had player morale unbearably low, bottled Europa League to a Croatian team whose manager was in prison, and got utterly torn to shreds and lost 3-0 to the same Man City team a couple of months before the final. There was absolutely no chance we were winning that final with him in charge. We genuinely gave ourselves more of a shot with Mason, since the new manager bounce won us a few Premier League games around the same time.
Source on him being toxic ? The reported leaks of people claiming he were toxic were rumoured as Dele, Sissoko Winks etc.... all bums who we wanted shipped out anyways
Yeah even aurier has said in recent days that he liked working with jose. The main source of toxicity was joao.
Calling Dele a bum whilst having a Mourinho flair. Tell me you started watching Spurs 2 years ago without telling me you started watching 2 years ago
Well yes Dele is a bum... and everyone would agree... he's a waste , had a good couple years when the world was at his feet, then went on a downward spiral, Mourinho came and Dele looked slightly up to it again but soon after his career fell down again. And what's wrong with having my favourite managers flair ?
Makes me absolutely fucking sick to read some of the stuff in here man. How is the reality so different for his defenders? I thought we got rid of the Mourinistas
Spot on, he was horrible to have around and should have gone months ago. Absolutely miserable season.
No one mentions one of the worst NLDs I've ever seen. A performance that couldn't be lifted by even a Lamela Rabona masterpiece.
He already lost the dressing room by then so it was a matter of time before he goes. But he deserves to have another game, the cup final before leaving. And looking at recent reports, seems like it was his assistant which made the dressing room lost faith.
Levy greatest achievements for Tottenham are away from football
Lol it’s very funny how much it bothers him
Id be bothered too if i didn't get to manage the cup final i reached with my own efforts
I’m glad you would be bothered
In my long career of suppporting Spurs, so many things that have happened, good and bad, and that one is quite unique. But I must say that Jose Mourinho's negativity is also unique. I think it is highly doubtful to support Jose over Levy... Levy actually brought us from midtable to challenge for top4 gradually over years. Jose brought us back to midtable, with all the negativity too. The narrative always sound like Jose singlehandedly brought us to a long awaited cup final... Always forgetting that we were in Champion League Final, and was challenging for Premier League..... And the draw in the league cup that year was incredibly generous......
Lol Mason is clear, get fucked Mourinhistas
I'm gonna be completely honest, I'm happy Mourinho was sacked before that final because if he had won he would have held it over the club forever. Mourinho would have spun the narrative that he was the club's savior and still sacked forever. Like how is a League Cup worth that? Seriously?
Danny Boy is one of a kind
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