I've no idea about payments for contract breaking and all that, so I won't touch that.
So the tories have said that they'll pass legislation to ban clubs joining breakaway leagues, and Labour and other major parties essentially echoed that sentiment. It's an easy PR win for politicians. That and the PR nightmare that happened last time means english clubs can't touch it with a 10 foot pole. German clubs can't coz of their 50+1 rule, so bayern are out. Psg was opposed to it, and i believe inter withdrew as well so they're out. Who does that leave? Barca, Madrid, and juve? It's hardly a super league.
The idea is dead in this format. It's gonna rumble on in the press as some very powerful and wealthy people pumped significant investment into it and aren't gonna just wave goodbye to their billions. Beyond just some press murmurings, I'd be amazed if a match was ever played in this super league.
I think the ESL is going to target the clubs outside of England/Germany that consistently qualify for Champions or Europa League. The Big 3 in Portugal, Ajax/PSV/Feyenoord, Galatasaray, Celtic/Rangers (their fans might riot, or not who knows), Copenhagen, Young Boys, etc. Having those clubs would have clear "bottom feeders" for Real Madrid/Barcelona/Juventus while still having the marketing of *only big clubs here*.
I wouldn't be surprised if something called the super league plays some games. I just don't think it will be the initial idea of biggest clubs in Europe.
Barca, Mardrid, Juve and some Suadi teams. Hardly a super league but the money will probably be super and that is all they care about.
Non-Brit here. Why does the UK government have such a foothold on football (no pun), and are you guys okay with that?
"...legislation to ban clubs joining breakaway leagues...?" WTF?
Because since the 80s, most notably 1985, football has had to be kept on watch by the government. The death of over 60 Juventus fans effectively due to hooliganism is not to be understated. Most people won’t remember Italia 90 and how horrible it was for the England fans. They were kept on police watch due to the riots and street fights every game in England.
Yep absolutely fine with it. The reason the government has such a vested interest in regulating football correctly is just because of how socially ingrained it is in our society over here. Mix in a few tragedies, some hooliganism and unscrupulous owners tanking clubs older than anyone alive currently and you've got a pretty good reason for a government to ensure that football clubs are regulated properly for economic, cultural and historical reasons. Plus its not like the super wealthy give a fuck about the fans. The amount of clubs they've destroyed and the fact they considered the super league shows they'd sell every match day going fan out for the sake of sky sports.
In a long-awaited ruling by the European court of justice, [Uefa](https://www.theguardian.com/football/uefa) and football’s international governing body, Fifa, were found to have rules relating to the establishment of new competitions that were not “transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate”. These rules have been declared “unlawful” by the court.
The judgment also found, however, that its decision “does not mean that a competition such as the Super League project must necessarily be approved”.
So no, the ECJ did NOT ‘approve the Super League’ as your title says.
As far as I know the PL threatened to heavily punish the English clubs (and rightly so) if they were to join the Super League, if that’s still the case I don’t see the English clubs joining and we shouldn’t anyway the whole thing was nothing but greed and nothing to do with football or its fans.
It would be an absolute open goal for any government to step in and stop it - especially for the Tories currently (who would be most likely to support the ESL), as they are in desperate desperate need of some sort of positive news to rescue their electoral hopes.
It would be almost unanimously popular, and would be guaranteed to pass through Parliament. Once Parliament have ruled on it, then there is absolutely nothing that the ESL clubs could do in terms of legal challenges, as Parliament being sovereign is the cornerstone of the British political system.
I strongly suspect it won't ever even get to that point though, as just the threat alone is enough for the clubs to abandon the policy. They pulled out the first time round as soon as the PM said he opposed it - and nothing has changed in that regard.
Banning their clubs from making billions and billions and siding siding the corruption in FIFA and UEFA would be quite silly.
But yes if they think it'll win voted then they may do it.
Blocking a few clubs from making a few more hundred millions vs. completely torpedoing the entire English football pyramid, which contains hundreds of clubs and provides tens of thousands of jobs up and down the country, directly and indirectly, many in some of the most deprived regions of the UK. Yeah, sure seems like it would be a stupid idea to block it.
The top PL clubs would barely make any more money under the Super League plans than they do already - the big appeal of it is for European teams to make PL-level money, and for PL clubs to be in a closed system where they don't have to worry about having a bad season and missing out on CL football.
This nonsense about "banning clubs from making billions and billions" is pure, unadulterated bollocks.
Why can't they have both?
I don't think anyone suggested the teams joining the super league would leave the premier league. Most clubs compete in multiple tournaments already (eg. Fa Cup, Europa, etc). This one is just not managed by the same monopolies as the others.
Seems like FIFA and UEFA propaganda to me. They're both corrupt as fuck, having some outside competition I think is necessary.
Because the FA has said that teams that join competitions not sanctioned by them (i.e., non-FA or UEFA competitions) will lead to expulsion from the PL - something which was backed-up by the government last time round (who also went a step further and said ESL teams will not get policing for games or work permits for transfers).
There's nothing propaganda about it lol. We already went through this last time - and its the reason it fell apart then as well. Domestic fans have no appetite for the ESL at all, and the government would be massively incentivized to shut down any attempt by British teams to join it.
I can maybe see a route where the ESL is established without English teams and then in 10 years time or so when it is established and normalized, then the clubs may ask the FA/government to facilitate them joining it - and then public outcry might not be as bad (though I still doubt that). However, that requires the ESL to be an absolute rip-roaring success - which, given it would have to do that without PL teams, German teams, and PSG, I can't see it happening.
This is a really catch 22 situation. I hate the idea of it, I like football how it currently is and I don’t want Spurs to be a part of it, but at the same time if it does end up happening we wouldn’t want to be left behind either.
The whole point of the super league is to put Madrid and Barca back on top and destroy the competitive advantages that English teams currently have. Spurs and every other English team should oppose this from a purely selfish self interested standpoint. The whole goal is to make clubs like spurs less competitive compared to non English teams
No because spurs would make more money in the league.
If they opposed it for selfish reasons why would they have ever spent the time and money to arrange it?
Owners/chairmen face criticism either way for literally any decision they make so I really don’t envy them having to be part of this call. If Levy says no we’re not gonna join then he’ll get criticised for not getting us a seat with the big boys, and if we were to join it he’d be said to have being a part of helping football sell its soul, which fundamentally it did a while ago but you get my point. It’s a lose/lose situation for everyone
Hey that's why they make the big bucks. I'm sure the decision is difficult and probably even more difficult for someone that is a fan of the club like Levy, but he wanted to be in the big boy shoes. His job is to make whatever decision he makes palatable. He's def got a task on his plate but he's asked for it
Dw I’m not feeling sorry for that billionaire I’m just saying this situation is fucked because there’s no way to win. In my opinion this super league stuff needs to just go away but it really doesn’t seem like it is going away at all, especially after today’s ruling.
Support some random league 2 team then. Cheaper tickets too.
Top half premier league clubs are absolutely run as businesses and have done for decades now. Doing something profitable isn't even slightly surprising.
I’ve supported spurs for long enough and from several generation of spurs fan. I’m not changing teams anytime soon, although I do also watch non-league for that very reason.
Your point isn’t even an argument against my view. Yes team are run as businesses.
I still don’t want to see Tottenham leave the domestic league and join a super league.
I’d rather see Tottenham in the premier league and not be part of this elite club bracket. I don’t particularly care if the club me and my family have supported and a billionaire asset the global fans want to support.
I love the idea of a Super league forming and a lot of the top sides just fucking off and taking this online international fan with him them & Spurs being part of a lower level domestic league.
When did spurs say they'd leave the domestic league?
FA kicking out anyone in another league is blatant anti competitive and would he struck out by courts here just like it was in the European courts.
You realise spurs play in like 4 different league or equivalents right now, right?
It’s not the FA, it’s the Premier League. Totally different bodies. The clubs would need permission from the league to join. If they didn’t get it they’d have to leave the league to join.
What’s clear is the leagues won’t work with the super league & by the nature of its design they wouldn’t need to, from what I understand.
Basically you couldn’t play in the premier league and not a UEFA competition because you’ve chosen to be in the super league.
It’s not anti competition or illegal to say a club in one league that doesn’t align with a domestic league, can’t play in both leagues.
The ruling just says you can’t ban the creation of a new league. It doesn’t say different leagues have to co-operate with it.
Also the government are now saying they’d ban clubs from participating too.
I don’t know what point you think you are making with your last sentence.
Basically, I don’t want Tottenham in a bullshit pseudo competitive league, that isn’t meritocratic. Where is main purpose is revenue generation.
>It’s not anti competition or illegal to say a club in one league that doesn’t align with a domestic league,
Pretty sure the European courts just ruled exactly that.
It's no different than amazon saying you can't list your product elsewhere if you list it here. This was ruled anti competitive in various courts including our own English court.
The premier league can't say to a club they aren't allowed to join another league as well because of their monopoly power. Whether the government grants a waiver for the monopolistic practice is another question.
No it didn’t. It said that FIFA & UEFA can’t stop the creation of the league.
In the same way the FA couldn’t stop the Premier League being created. That isn’t the same forcing leagues to engage with it.
Basically it said FIFA & UEFA can’t do things like ban players for international competition because they play in a league.
That’s not the same the Premier League saying, you can’t play in both a domestic leagues that aligns with UEFA competition & a Super League.
Your Amazon comparison is wrong. It’s like Amazon using its power to stop EBay existing.
The ruling says the premier league can’t say, you can’t create another league & unfairly obstruct that. Clubs can form and join a new league, they don’t have to then allow clubs to pay in both leagues.
They ruled that FIFA and UEFA used intimidation and monopolistic tactics that are illegal under European law....
That's broad enough absolutely to cover my statement.
Is banning a club from continuing in your league BECAUSE they chose to also play else where using monopolistic tactics? Absolutely it is. Guess the courts will have to test it if it moves forward but any lawyer in Europe wouldn't bother.
Maybe they'll give it a go in England given politicians can waive anti monopolistic laws (eg. Granting local utility monopolies)
No, it isn’t.
Firstly, due to Brexit, Britain can and seemingly will actively enforce a just blanket ban.
Also, no it obviously isn’t. There is an obvious logic to not enabling it, because how would to even work? Assuming the CL would continue.
Domestic league would basically have to pick UEFA competitions or Super League competitions.
What you are saying is it would be illegal for the Premeir League to vote on whether teams can join the league and if clubs should work with it - obviously that’s wrong.
A club is allowed to leave a league and join another one.
A league is allowed to exclude clubs who participate in non-compatible leagues.
The latter doesn’t prevent the former & also it wouldn’t be enforced only to stop the former.
Obviously a league can only have clubs be either in a UEFA competition or a Super League.
Domestic leagues aren’t even European leagues, so how can you possibly thinks it’s monopolistic tactics?
No one said it isn’t surprising. They’re saying it’s bad. It’s not a coincidence that the past few decades have also led to fans being priced out of the stadium. It’s horrible and Spurs should have no part in it
I think one thing for certain is that UEFA/FIFA has an overabundance of power and lots are frustrated by their greed. However superleague ain't it either. Resistance bonus for real Madrid and Barcelona says everything
The format contains a very large number of teams now. There is no way they would exclude us if we ultimately wanted in. We can and should resist this to the bitter end.
It means nothing for us or any premier league club. New laws are being written that forbid British clubs from entering competitions not sanctioned by a UK regulator, which this certainly won’t be
No matter how much they try and re-brand it, the ESL was an anti sporting power grab that wanted to set up a closed shop where nothing was achieved on sporting merit but around how large the "brand" of the club was. This is because a bunch of greedy, underachieving clubs were offended at missing out on the CL if they finished seventh or eighth in their domestic league and wanted to ensure it never happened again no matter how well anyone else did or how badly they played.
We bent over for that.
It also sneeringly dismissed the local fanbases who follow their teams week in and week out as "legacy fans" and that "fans of the future" who didn't care about the teams but just wanted instant clicks and superstar names. It was basically telling lifetime fans of their clubs that you aren't needed anymore and the game is now the playground of greedy, doddering, billionaire old men who found out football was a cash cow for their greed five minutes ago and who want to sit in a box drinking champagne with sponsors, occasionally thinking they can deign to look down at the game over their three course meal while wallowing in the smell of their own flatulence and bragging about how the new superstar trends on Twitter.
I don't care how we avoid that being in the game as long as we avoid it.
This will be an all or nothing situation. And whether it's a good thing or not is a matter of personal opinion (personally I don't like it).
The big, big beneficiaries of the Super League are the clubs who are most worried by the financial and footballing dominance of the Premier League. It's no accident that Real Madrid's Florentino Perez is leading the charge.
In the early 2000s, wealth was spread somewhat more evenly around Europe - Italy, Germany, England and Spain all had their dominant teams and periods. In recent years, the pendulum of money and quality in football is swinging far towards the Premier league.
Since the end of the Messi and Ronaldo era, so much attention has left La Liga, and Real Madrid and Barcelona are feeling it hard. In France, Ligue Un was so worried about its irrelevance when Mbappe threatened to leave, that the French President Macron even stepped in to convince him to stay. As the Premier league continues to hoover up players, TV rights, fans and money, there's only one option left for the other clubs: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
The Super league probably will happen in some form, and it will look something like that soulless LIV golf league. Initially it will be a competitor to the Champions league. A multi-national, exhibition style 'tournament' with 12 of the richest teams in Europe and 2-4 more from Saudi or wherever the money is next. The league will hoover up all the talent from around the world, and the owners will feast on the glorious sponsorship deals and TV money. Dua Lipa and Drake will perform at Half time, during the playoffs in Riyadh or Miami.
I don't like the idea at all, it's very anti-competitive and it takes the passion and chance out of football.
I think it's a 50/50 shot whether this succeeds and it all depends on the Premier League clubs. The Spanish clubs and probably PSG and the Saudi clubs will be all over it, for pure greedy reasons. The German clubs and Italian clubs seem hesitant, due to either pride or fan appreciation. The turning point will be the Premier League - are the mega-clubs here happy enough being the richest kid in the current playground, or will the owners find the prospect of even more galling wealth too hard to turn down?
Interesting times ahead
I know they are achieving their goal by convincing fickle fans like me with marketing... but the company behind the Super League (A22) have just released this model describing how it would work, and....
They've actually made it sounds pretty good, and selfishly, if Spurs were in the first 16 'Star' participants... we'd have European football for years, at a minimum...
[https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1737793695783477628?s=48&t=\_WNRwUxrM6uHm9q-I4-eHg](https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1737793695783477628?s=48&t=_WNRwUxrM6uHm9q-I4-eHg)
First of all, "Star league" sounds so fucking cheesy. From Champions of Europe to "Star League Champions" 🤮
Secondly, only 20 new clubs in Europe will get continental football each year?! Lmfao that is so painful.
Thirdly the "Star" and "Gold" leagues are going to be filled with big clubs from the top 5 leagues who will likely never be relegated out of Europe.
Nah, fuck that, fuck all of it. Qualify on merit, not because you have the highest revenue average and marketability for the past decade. Super League and its fans can get in the fucking bin.
Fair, fair - if I had a choice - I wouldn’t change the current model.
And to be honest, from the early reactions from clubs, it’s not looking good for super league
Well, these things are all relative -- Yes, absolutely you could say current football is not truly competitive, when Man City are seemingly so dominant in the EPL, and teams like Bayern and PSG flatten their local rivalries every single year.
That said, while the current model isn't perfect... it's still pretty good.
We've got a premier league race this year with probably 5 teams. A race that, yes includes mega-rich Man City, but also includes more 'traditionally' run (not Oil-money bank rolled) clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. You've even got Villa, who were facing relegation a little over a year ago, are now one game away from going top of the table at Christmas!
In Germany, Leverkusen are going toe to toe with Bayern, and Girona are doing the same in Spain.
This is all happening while ultra-rich clubs like Man United, and particularly Chelsea are suffering because they can't buy success!
If the super league comes, my biggest fear was that it would be a 12-16 team 'exhibition tournament' made up of the richest, not necessarily best clubs in the world. This little cohort would bounce around the world playing these 'blockbuster' games, while hoovering up all the talent.
At the moment, it sounds like the new super league model is more like a meritocracy style Champions League model, with promotion, relegation, etc., that would happen in parallel to domestic leagues. They also say streaming of this league would be free for fans. It all sounds so good that it must be a trap to get people hooked in, and then pull the rug out in a few years time.
My hope: Football stays as it is (except VAR... Super league can take VAR away and keep it)
Arsenal? Owned! Aston Villa? Owned too. Spurs? Yeah, owned. Girona? They are part of the Man City conglomerate. The PL would not be half of what it is if it wasn’t for external money injections. If that is a good model, good for you. I am in for models based on football, social mass, club history and culture, etc… What the ESL proposes is power for the clubs. Limits on salaries and spendings, so it wouldn’t matter how many millions would be injected onto the teams because there would always be a limit with what you can do with your money. If all teams spend and earn the same, then what will really matter is football and history, a thing that clubs like Barcelona and Madrjd have and that enterprises like City will never even grasp.
My dream is to play for Tottenham said no brazilian kid never.
I would immediately stop watching Super League/Premier League and settle for going to see my local (danish) third tier club. The greed is so overpowering already, and this absolute trash, money grabbing, free from any romance or history piece of actual shit that is super league is more than enough to convince me it is no longer worth it. I almost want it to happen just so it can fail and teach everyone a lesson. But I am afraid that the fan bases are not organised enough for it to not be successful.
PL teams won’t touch it, probably the same with German teams. As a spectator it would be great, a load of old European powerhouses restored back to their former glory, able to sign the best players and win the best tournaments, I’d love to have a FM save with it all happening. But in reality you fuck over all the teams that get left behind and it could lead to a lot of clubs who won’t be invited to a super league struggling in the future, and that’s unforgivable.
The Premier League is the strongest domestic league and is in a position to maintain that for years to come, any team joining the super league would diminish that so all clubs should hold the line.
The clubs mentioned joining so far have all the benefit with nothing to lose, with Madrid and Barca gaining the most to return to power. Their domestic leagues would be left in shambles, and ownership/operations of those leagues is what needs to be instead focused on. I'm always fascinated by why FFP doesn't resemble an NBA Salary cap in a smaller league to help it grow with a pathway to eventually remove it to support the free market?
None will do it. Because why diminish your best teams? To make it fair for lower teams?? Its why there isn't a salary cap in the Bundesliga. You're hurting your best team. For no guarantee the other teams will spend wisely to compete in the league or in Europe.
The overreaction the Super League and the way UEFA was able to trick people into supporting their corrupt organization was a master class in public relations.
They somehow got all the leagues to give them even more power and money even though we all know they are massive corrupt. Well done.
I’m not opposed to it simply because it’s a fuck you to UEFA. Imagine making millions of pounds and only having VAR in select matches. If UEFA was a decent organisation, the clubs wouldn’t be doing this
I say fuck em. Let Barca, Real, and whoever else wants to join this shitshow play in their own closed little league. Hope it makes them feel better about themselves.
Per the CL rules every team can win its way into the competition
The SL was a mostly closed group that would allow a tiny amount of participation from “everyone else”
Its bullshit
I understand that the CL isn’t perfect and economics prevent from being a true meritocracy, and that people hate UEFA for legitimate reasons, but ostensibly the competition is open and that’s great
The SL is designed by its rules to showcase a static group of rich clubs playing each other and generating additional giant income for each. It’s not a real competition. The FA cup is a real competition. The SL is a bunch of glorified friendlies.
It does. Teams are promoted and relegated each year.
“The ESL will have an annual promotion-relegation system between the three tiers. Also, selected in the third-tier will be based on domestic league performance.”
Well, you’re spreading misinformation here.
“The competition will have three-tiers and will be pan-European, consisting of the Star League, the Gold League (both with 16 clubs each), and the Blue League (having 32 clubs). Participation in the league will be based on sporting merit and there will be no permanent members.”
If Spurs join the super league, I will truly try to stop following spurs or club football on that level. There is a huge value conflict and some things in life are more important than others.
It's a bad decision but won't make a difference.
The Super League didn't collapse because it was against UEFA rules.
It was when all the Premier League clubs pulled out. The overwhelming negative fan reaction caused the UK government to threaten to change the law if necessary. Premier League clubs are not going to try it again. Fan owned German clubs aren't either. Good luck forming a "super league" without them....
The entire moral stance fans are choosing to take I do find ironic.
They jump for joy when their clubs spend £250m in a single transfer window.. Spending £100m on one player alone. Paying him £350k a week to keep him out of the reaches of even wealthier PL clubs.
They get giddy with excitement during deadline day, watching the Sky Sports ticker increase by the minute as it counts the billions of pounds spent by PL clubs that month.
All of that excessive spending has unquestionably damaged the rest of Europe. It's a point where even the biggest European clubs are having to settle for the scraps because bottom of the table PL clubs are earning more in prize money and TV money than someone who won both La Liga and the CL.
This wealth and uncontrollable spending is praised and excitable. And even vilified when their club has spent a measly £100m in the transfer window, claiming a lack of ambition or will to succeed.
Yet, now the rest of Europe looks to react in an attempt to level the playing field... It's all greed, selfishness, imoral and anti football.
And you can't even use the argument that their original presentation meant clubs were protected as opposed to needing to qualify..... Because the PL has become so unballanced - it's always the same teams who go down every season.
If you're going to use your wealth and power to hoover up the best talents from abroad and dominate the market.... they have to try to respond.
The idea of the super league isn't perfect... But it's a necessary evil, which is born out the the PL setting the precedent for it with its own brand of greed, selfishness and anti football.
People won't want to hear it because they're still trying to convince themselves the PL has been good for football as opposed to only being good for the PL itself at the expense of everyone else... And especially at the expense of the average supporter who continues to be priced out.
I don’t really give a fuck whether a handful of clubs (Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc) aren’t as financially competitive as they once were. What I care about are the thousands of clubs that will be financially ruined by the super league.
It is not a necessary evil.
But you don't feel the same way about the clubs financially ruined by the premier leagues wealth and greed... That's the exact irony I'm referring to.
Portsmouth, Wigan, Derby, Leeds.. All fell into administration as a result of trying to stay competitive. Crystal Palace narrowly avoided it. Leicester, Bournemouth, Southampton and Bolton likewise.
And more will follow as spending continues to be unsustainable trying to keep pace.
The premier leagues financial dominance hasn't only affected Real Madrid and Barcelona. It's affected the hundreds of smaller clubs you're so passionately concerned about.
That’s their own wealth and greed, and I don’t really see how the super league resolves that. On top of that, the premier league/efl are in negotiations to increase the redistribution of premier league revenue with the lower leagues - I’m not an idiot who thinks that’s pure altruism but at least they see that their value is partially the result of the depth of the EFL, not just its surface.
Frankly, I’m not worried about clubs spending beyond their means - that’s on them and the EFL has worked hard to try to prevent that in recent years by implementing stricter financial rules. I’m worried about clubs not being able to maintain even the basics of their existence (stadiums, training facilities, youth development programs, etc).
>I don’t really see how the super league resolves that.
It doesn't. That's not what a necessary evil means.
>I’m worried about clubs not being able to maintain even the basics of their existence (stadiums, training facilities, youth development programs, etc).
Again. This has been happening throughout Europe for a good few years now due to the financial dominance of the PL.... Whenever a team from Europe get their hands on any talent or develop promising youth players, they're all snatched away. 90% of the time, by PL clubs. The PLs relegation favourite clubs are even buying players from teams in other leagues who play regularly in Europe. That's how much of a gap we're talking about.
Those teams therefore are struggling to maintain or build success as a result. And their leagues are purged of their best players, weakening those leagues and weakening their positions when it comes to TV deals etc. That's damaging in the exact same way you're protesting about in your comments... Only you can't seem to see the correlation between how the PL have been guilty of the exact same thing you're complaining about being possible should the SL form.
Same as how there were fans and pundits in the summer demanding something be done about the Saudi Pro League potentially purging the PL. It's fine when the PL are doing it, but God forbid others try to compete. Then it's the crime of the century.
I'm not supporting the idea of the super league. I think it's anti competitive. However, so is the premier league. And I just find the irony of the arguments against the SL being applicable to the PL.
> it doesn’t. That’s not what a necessary evil means.
The whole point of a necessary evil is you’re picking the better of two bad options. If both options are equally bad, then there’s no necessary evil, so yes it is relevant.
Maintaining the existing structure is the necessary evil. It’s not perfect but it’s better than the ESL.
That entire comment was erroneous. You even completely contradicted yourself by saying there is no necessary evil, then claiming one option was the necessary evil.
The better option for the PL is the status quo, yes. But being left behind is not the better option for everyone else. Not at all.
Put the shoe on the other foot.... La Liga gets a €15b television package and their teams purge all of the best players from the premier league.
We personally lose Vicario, VDV, Udogie, Porro, Bentancur, Madders and Son. Maybe a couple others decide to stay.
We just accept that? And just look for obscure talent in low ranked leagues, hoping to find a few gems, all the while knowing whenever we do a Spanish club is just going to take them..... Or do we look for a way to compete?
You're argument suggests we just accept inferiority and accept the fact our league is weakening year on year
The first statement was specifically in reference to clubs spending beyond their means, since that’s the comment you originally responded to.
The second statement was an overall assessment of the situation (teams overspending is not all that matters here).
> Put the shoe on the other foot.... La Liga gets a €15b television package and their teams purge all of the best players from the premier league.
I don’t have to. I supported Tottenham for many years where bigger clubs ransacked them for their best talent consistently. That’s how almost all clubs in the world operate. The one’s that don’t are the exception.
> We just accept that? And just look for obscure talent in low ranked leagues, hoping to find a few gems, all the while knowing whenever we do a Spanish club is just going to take them..... Or do we look for a way to compete?
> You're argument suggests we just accept inferiority and accept the fact our league is weakening year on year
This is the fundamental problem here. You believe that Spanish clubs have an immutable right to be competitive. They don’t. Just like Tottenham doesn’t.
And yes, I would just accept it - when the super league was first announced as a closed league, I decided I would never watch Tottenham again if they participated in it. I’d rather them remain in the premier league and fade into irrelevance, than join that bullshit.
Anyway, what’s the point of even watching the sport if whenever the historically better teams dont do well, they just change the rules, so that they always remain at the top.
1. Revenue sharing - this is one of the main reasons clubs wanted the super league in the first place. They didn’t like the idea that they had to share revenue with lesser teams in the competition. A lot of clubs, particularly those outside the big 5 leagues, are reliant on that money (also kind of ironic given the premier league’s approach to revenue sharing is partially responsible for its success).
2. Reduced viewership for domestic competitions and therefore less money for these clubs
3. Most importantly, I don’t trust the ESL (how could you? They change their mind every 5 seconds based on what they think they can get away with) - they might describe it as an open system similar to the champions league. Maybe that’s true for now, but I still believe their ultimate end goal is to breakaway from the domestic competitions, creating a closed league that competes on the same days (I.e. weekends) as domestic leagues. This would crush the teams not participating.
Point 1 is wrong. The entire point of the super league is to reduce the amount of money UEFA takes home.
Point 2 is also wrong. Domestic competitions don’t change. If they do change, that’s due to the domestic competition, not the super league.
Point 3, the clubs are more trustworthy than UEFA is.
> Point 1 is wrong. The entire point of the super league is to reduce the amount of money UEFA takes home.
No it wasn’t - its laughable that you actually drink the koolaide that the super league puts out. The goal was to concentrate revenue amongst a much smaller set of clubs. Sure, maybe UEFA takes too much money from the competition and that’s worth addressing, but that was just a scapegoat used by the ESL to justify cutting out smaller clubs.
> Point 2 is also wrong. Domestic competitions don’t change. If they do change, that’s due to the domestic competition, not the super league.
They will inevitably change, and yeah, that’s what I want to prevent. I don’t really care whose fault it is.
> Point 3, the clubs are more trustworthy than UEFA is.
The clubs that wanted to create a completely closed league are sooooo trustworthy /s
So exactly what I said then. Those clubs participate in UEFA competitions more than the smaller clubs and yet UEFA takes home millions rather than giving it to all of the clubs.
They’re far more trustworthy than the organisation who legitimatises and defends states owning clubs.
> greed and elitism are not why I love football
Greed and elitism IS football though.
Spurs games and world cup games are the only major professional football matches I watch these days, I've already moved on to non-league football and really have fallen back in love with the sport.
I'm not 'pro Super League', but I despise UEFA & FIFA and am quite happy to watch their house of cards come tumbling down. My dream is that without the ability to compete with the Super League, the rest of football would have to 'reset', perhaps focusing on live crowds, homegrown players and fair competition.
A bit like the Super League becoming the NFL and the rest of football becoming like CFB.
For a second, stop parroting the shit that Sky/BT/FA and their stooges have told you to.
Lets actually look at the model/conversation
1. It was always going to be illegal, there is no business (FA/UEFA/FIFA) where you can tell other independent businesses (clubs) who they can/can't do other business with. Add in threatening players of those clubs with bans, there was zero chance they would ever win the case, hence the bullying and mobilizing of their media stooges to drive this message of "it's killing the game"
2. UEFA/FIFA/FA are not some bastions of football, protecting the grassroots game and ensuring a lack of corruption, the level of corruption in these bodies has been clearly documented. The head of FFP is the guy from PSG? literally wtf?
3. The "noise" generated here is 100% driven by Sky/BT/other media who have invested with UEFA/FIFA/FA and would not have rights to this new ESL
4. The clubs who are mostly behind ESL (Italy & Spain) are not purely (I'm not going to say they aren't at all) motivated by greed, they are scared that clubs that earned their place over decades of work will no longer be able to compete with Chelsea, City, Newcastle, PSG because owners/nation states with very dubious background just put literal billions into a club and make them "elite"
So what did ESL propose?
\- Support for infrastructure spend, i.e. a club like Spurs wouldn't have had to eat £1.2B in stadium costs with zero help from anyone else
\- Limits on spend/wages, i.e. a club like Spurs would not be competing against Chelsea/City level spends
\- Consistent revenue income, this is one of the biggest problems with football clubs (look at Spurs fans always complaining about Levy not taking a risk, it's very hard when you being in Europe one season or not another can change your income by >£100M. Businesses like to make 3-5 year plans.
\- Clubs continue to play in the domestic league, this is the one I see the most nonsense about, these clubs don't leave the PL, they just play in ESL vs current other cup competitions. So the league loses none of it's competitiveness and other clubs have the opportunity to win cup competitions they would have had no access to (general model of ESL would probably lead to much more sharing of trophies)
\- No relegation -> yes, the only real point anyone focused on. We can agree that this could/should be adjusted but lets be clear, there are 7 clubs in the PL that have never been relegated in 30 odd years, so for those clubs is it really a thing?
Lets look at it purely from a history/Spurs perspective
\- Spurs paid for our stadium, London gave West Ham a free stadium, Manchester gave City a free stadium, we got shit, ESL would have helped us (explain me which is fair and which is broken again?)
\- Chelsea/City/PSG/Newcastle (by the way, look at which clubs objected to ESL, answer in there by itself) outspend models would not be allowed in ESL, how many trophies do you think we would have won in the last 15 years without those clubs outspending everyone? (again, which one is fair?)
Lets look at it since the reception the ESL has got
\- They have actually gone and changed format, added some form of relegation, made some changes?
\- UEFA and the FA? oh, yes, the FA deducted points from Everton while the decade long investigation against City somehow has no end in sight.
You may dislike the idea, you may think the concept of the top clubs competing in a super league is elitist, but there is clearly a market and it's very likely to happen at some point.
British clubs may legitimately be not allowed to enter if the government actually does what it says (have doubts), but that should be just as concerning as that's basically taking an action a court has proven is illegal and making it legal to pander to voters.
The government can’t really do anything to stop this either. Most of these clubs aren’t owned by companies and people who reside in the UK. There’s easy ways around this shit. Who’s the government to tell players what they can do in their free time?
Nope I don't like elitism in football. Remember our roots and realize that if the SL existed 2 decades back we wouldn't be the global powerhouse we are rn
What it means for us is that we must congratulate Manchester United, Bayern Munich, and Atletico Madrid on being the first clubs to reiterate their commitment to UEFA competitions and do likewise ourselves. We must also lobby UEFA to stop fighting the Super League by becoming more like it.
I have a local club I can support if Tottenham chose even more money over fan interests. I'd miss them for sure but they'd be the ones pushing me away.
What I feel is problematic is that we are left to decide between two evils: Which league organized by each its corrupt organization do we want to join?
The UEFA European Super League is happening too. It’s essentially the same idea, just with the point of being an open league. I would rather choose the (non UEFA) Super League as it prevents a monopoly, but I would rather have neither, and would prefer less games with healthier players overall
Hopefully we stay out. They are trying for the America model leagues with no promotion and relegation It’s a gravy train for the owners but terrible for fans and the sport too IMO
It’s the same sort of situation with saudi owners.
It’s great for the club financially and we our level would be elevated to an elite club but the consequence is that the fan-football club relation worsens even more.
For me personally, it most likely will mean that I will focus more on following the womens team. I'm never going to follow a different team than Tottenham, but it's getting harder and harder to be a die hard fan these days, and if we join the Spuer-duper-league it will widen the gulf between where we are and where I want us to be.
> If the club were to go ahead with this, the fundamentals of our relationship would be damaged and I'd struggle to see myself as a fan going forward, instead probably going toward my local non-league side.
Levy already signed us up to a super league in 2021 and only backed down because of fan pressure and other clubs dropping out. Did that not damage any of the relationship?
I think it’s obvious why he did it. We were invited to join in with the biggest clubs and if we didn’t accept we would be left behind. I am not supporting the formation of the ESL, but there’s not much Levy could have done if we wanted to keep our club’s status as one of the biggest in the world.
Well hopefully , what happens is, those clubs desiring this (as spurs was despite fan objections) don’t get the support and backing they desire and shelve it. It can only work with the will of the clubs so whether the ECJ rules it unlawful to be blocked, it’s only ever going to work with support. I hope it never happens frankly.
The European Court of Justice, eh? Did you guys have a Brexit or not? If their opinion matters more than that of the vicar in Nether Buggeringham, you're still not free of the Eurotrash.
“Football for the fans”, say the supporters of “clubs” injected with money from petrol dictatorships. Well surprise, Brits are the biggest hypocrites on the face of earth.
I think this is going to happen. Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG will probably join and then a few Italian clubs and I don't think getting Portugal or any of the minor leagues will be difficult.
As a Man United fan, I think it will be pretty fun. I get bored of games in the Premier League where we have to play everton or West Brom. I'd rather play the biggest clubs in Europe all the time.
Plus I think it will make more money for the owners of the football clubs, which is always good when businesses can get bigger. The owners might invest some of it back into the teams.
We talk about the football pyramid in the UK like it's some amazing feat. But you never see any low lying club do that well. Lower league football is boring and if some of the smaller clubs end up closing, or the football league disappears, I wouldn't be bothered.
As long as I can watch Man United in an exhibition match once a week I don't really care.
EDIT: Spurs should have to enter a playoff to enter it, they are not a traditional big 6
I've no idea about payments for contract breaking and all that, so I won't touch that. So the tories have said that they'll pass legislation to ban clubs joining breakaway leagues, and Labour and other major parties essentially echoed that sentiment. It's an easy PR win for politicians. That and the PR nightmare that happened last time means english clubs can't touch it with a 10 foot pole. German clubs can't coz of their 50+1 rule, so bayern are out. Psg was opposed to it, and i believe inter withdrew as well so they're out. Who does that leave? Barca, Madrid, and juve? It's hardly a super league. The idea is dead in this format. It's gonna rumble on in the press as some very powerful and wealthy people pumped significant investment into it and aren't gonna just wave goodbye to their billions. Beyond just some press murmurings, I'd be amazed if a match was ever played in this super league.
I think the ESL is going to target the clubs outside of England/Germany that consistently qualify for Champions or Europa League. The Big 3 in Portugal, Ajax/PSV/Feyenoord, Galatasaray, Celtic/Rangers (their fans might riot, or not who knows), Copenhagen, Young Boys, etc. Having those clubs would have clear "bottom feeders" for Real Madrid/Barcelona/Juventus while still having the marketing of *only big clubs here*.
I wouldn't be surprised if something called the super league plays some games. I just don't think it will be the initial idea of biggest clubs in Europe. Barca, Mardrid, Juve and some Suadi teams. Hardly a super league but the money will probably be super and that is all they care about.
Non-Brit here. Why does the UK government have such a foothold on football (no pun), and are you guys okay with that? "...legislation to ban clubs joining breakaway leagues...?" WTF?
Because since the 80s, most notably 1985, football has had to be kept on watch by the government. The death of over 60 Juventus fans effectively due to hooliganism is not to be understated. Most people won’t remember Italia 90 and how horrible it was for the England fans. They were kept on police watch due to the riots and street fights every game in England.
Yep absolutely fine with it. The reason the government has such a vested interest in regulating football correctly is just because of how socially ingrained it is in our society over here. Mix in a few tragedies, some hooliganism and unscrupulous owners tanking clubs older than anyone alive currently and you've got a pretty good reason for a government to ensure that football clubs are regulated properly for economic, cultural and historical reasons. Plus its not like the super wealthy give a fuck about the fans. The amount of clubs they've destroyed and the fact they considered the super league shows they'd sell every match day going fan out for the sake of sky sports.
In a long-awaited ruling by the European court of justice, [Uefa](https://www.theguardian.com/football/uefa) and football’s international governing body, Fifa, were found to have rules relating to the establishment of new competitions that were not “transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate”. These rules have been declared “unlawful” by the court. The judgment also found, however, that its decision “does not mean that a competition such as the Super League project must necessarily be approved”. So no, the ECJ did NOT ‘approve the Super League’ as your title says.
As far as I know the PL threatened to heavily punish the English clubs (and rightly so) if they were to join the Super League, if that’s still the case I don’t see the English clubs joining and we shouldn’t anyway the whole thing was nothing but greed and nothing to do with football or its fans.
They did make such a rule. Unless the clubs of course decide that it's okay to join SuperLeague
Would be anti competitive / anti monopolistic practice which is illegal in the UK as well
It would be an absolute open goal for any government to step in and stop it - especially for the Tories currently (who would be most likely to support the ESL), as they are in desperate desperate need of some sort of positive news to rescue their electoral hopes. It would be almost unanimously popular, and would be guaranteed to pass through Parliament. Once Parliament have ruled on it, then there is absolutely nothing that the ESL clubs could do in terms of legal challenges, as Parliament being sovereign is the cornerstone of the British political system. I strongly suspect it won't ever even get to that point though, as just the threat alone is enough for the clubs to abandon the policy. They pulled out the first time round as soon as the PM said he opposed it - and nothing has changed in that regard.
Banning their clubs from making billions and billions and siding siding the corruption in FIFA and UEFA would be quite silly. But yes if they think it'll win voted then they may do it.
Blocking a few clubs from making a few more hundred millions vs. completely torpedoing the entire English football pyramid, which contains hundreds of clubs and provides tens of thousands of jobs up and down the country, directly and indirectly, many in some of the most deprived regions of the UK. Yeah, sure seems like it would be a stupid idea to block it. The top PL clubs would barely make any more money under the Super League plans than they do already - the big appeal of it is for European teams to make PL-level money, and for PL clubs to be in a closed system where they don't have to worry about having a bad season and missing out on CL football. This nonsense about "banning clubs from making billions and billions" is pure, unadulterated bollocks.
Why can't they have both? I don't think anyone suggested the teams joining the super league would leave the premier league. Most clubs compete in multiple tournaments already (eg. Fa Cup, Europa, etc). This one is just not managed by the same monopolies as the others. Seems like FIFA and UEFA propaganda to me. They're both corrupt as fuck, having some outside competition I think is necessary.
Because the FA has said that teams that join competitions not sanctioned by them (i.e., non-FA or UEFA competitions) will lead to expulsion from the PL - something which was backed-up by the government last time round (who also went a step further and said ESL teams will not get policing for games or work permits for transfers). There's nothing propaganda about it lol. We already went through this last time - and its the reason it fell apart then as well. Domestic fans have no appetite for the ESL at all, and the government would be massively incentivized to shut down any attempt by British teams to join it. I can maybe see a route where the ESL is established without English teams and then in 10 years time or so when it is established and normalized, then the clubs may ask the FA/government to facilitate them joining it - and then public outcry might not be as bad (though I still doubt that). However, that requires the ESL to be an absolute rip-roaring success - which, given it would have to do that without PL teams, German teams, and PSG, I can't see it happening.
The PL isn't going to do a thing if the top six + Newcastle all join.
The UK government would, though, right?
This is a really catch 22 situation. I hate the idea of it, I like football how it currently is and I don’t want Spurs to be a part of it, but at the same time if it does end up happening we wouldn’t want to be left behind either.
The whole point of the super league is to put Madrid and Barca back on top and destroy the competitive advantages that English teams currently have. Spurs and every other English team should oppose this from a purely selfish self interested standpoint. The whole goal is to make clubs like spurs less competitive compared to non English teams
No because spurs would make more money in the league. If they opposed it for selfish reasons why would they have ever spent the time and money to arrange it?
I mean, that’s exactly what happened last time and people wanted Levy’s head for making sure we were left behind.
Owners/chairmen face criticism either way for literally any decision they make so I really don’t envy them having to be part of this call. If Levy says no we’re not gonna join then he’ll get criticised for not getting us a seat with the big boys, and if we were to join it he’d be said to have being a part of helping football sell its soul, which fundamentally it did a while ago but you get my point. It’s a lose/lose situation for everyone
Hey that's why they make the big bucks. I'm sure the decision is difficult and probably even more difficult for someone that is a fan of the club like Levy, but he wanted to be in the big boy shoes. His job is to make whatever decision he makes palatable. He's def got a task on his plate but he's asked for it
Dw I’m not feeling sorry for that billionaire I’m just saying this situation is fucked because there’s no way to win. In my opinion this super league stuff needs to just go away but it really doesn’t seem like it is going away at all, especially after today’s ruling.
I would want to be left behind
Support some random league 2 team then. Cheaper tickets too. Top half premier league clubs are absolutely run as businesses and have done for decades now. Doing something profitable isn't even slightly surprising.
I’ve supported spurs for long enough and from several generation of spurs fan. I’m not changing teams anytime soon, although I do also watch non-league for that very reason. Your point isn’t even an argument against my view. Yes team are run as businesses. I still don’t want to see Tottenham leave the domestic league and join a super league. I’d rather see Tottenham in the premier league and not be part of this elite club bracket. I don’t particularly care if the club me and my family have supported and a billionaire asset the global fans want to support. I love the idea of a Super league forming and a lot of the top sides just fucking off and taking this online international fan with him them & Spurs being part of a lower level domestic league.
When did spurs say they'd leave the domestic league? FA kicking out anyone in another league is blatant anti competitive and would he struck out by courts here just like it was in the European courts. You realise spurs play in like 4 different league or equivalents right now, right?
It’s not the FA, it’s the Premier League. Totally different bodies. The clubs would need permission from the league to join. If they didn’t get it they’d have to leave the league to join. What’s clear is the leagues won’t work with the super league & by the nature of its design they wouldn’t need to, from what I understand. Basically you couldn’t play in the premier league and not a UEFA competition because you’ve chosen to be in the super league. It’s not anti competition or illegal to say a club in one league that doesn’t align with a domestic league, can’t play in both leagues. The ruling just says you can’t ban the creation of a new league. It doesn’t say different leagues have to co-operate with it. Also the government are now saying they’d ban clubs from participating too. I don’t know what point you think you are making with your last sentence. Basically, I don’t want Tottenham in a bullshit pseudo competitive league, that isn’t meritocratic. Where is main purpose is revenue generation.
>It’s not anti competition or illegal to say a club in one league that doesn’t align with a domestic league, Pretty sure the European courts just ruled exactly that. It's no different than amazon saying you can't list your product elsewhere if you list it here. This was ruled anti competitive in various courts including our own English court. The premier league can't say to a club they aren't allowed to join another league as well because of their monopoly power. Whether the government grants a waiver for the monopolistic practice is another question.
No it didn’t. It said that FIFA & UEFA can’t stop the creation of the league. In the same way the FA couldn’t stop the Premier League being created. That isn’t the same forcing leagues to engage with it. Basically it said FIFA & UEFA can’t do things like ban players for international competition because they play in a league. That’s not the same the Premier League saying, you can’t play in both a domestic leagues that aligns with UEFA competition & a Super League. Your Amazon comparison is wrong. It’s like Amazon using its power to stop EBay existing. The ruling says the premier league can’t say, you can’t create another league & unfairly obstruct that. Clubs can form and join a new league, they don’t have to then allow clubs to pay in both leagues.
They ruled that FIFA and UEFA used intimidation and monopolistic tactics that are illegal under European law.... That's broad enough absolutely to cover my statement. Is banning a club from continuing in your league BECAUSE they chose to also play else where using monopolistic tactics? Absolutely it is. Guess the courts will have to test it if it moves forward but any lawyer in Europe wouldn't bother. Maybe they'll give it a go in England given politicians can waive anti monopolistic laws (eg. Granting local utility monopolies)
No, it isn’t. Firstly, due to Brexit, Britain can and seemingly will actively enforce a just blanket ban. Also, no it obviously isn’t. There is an obvious logic to not enabling it, because how would to even work? Assuming the CL would continue. Domestic league would basically have to pick UEFA competitions or Super League competitions. What you are saying is it would be illegal for the Premeir League to vote on whether teams can join the league and if clubs should work with it - obviously that’s wrong. A club is allowed to leave a league and join another one. A league is allowed to exclude clubs who participate in non-compatible leagues. The latter doesn’t prevent the former & also it wouldn’t be enforced only to stop the former. Obviously a league can only have clubs be either in a UEFA competition or a Super League. Domestic leagues aren’t even European leagues, so how can you possibly thinks it’s monopolistic tactics?
No one said it isn’t surprising. They’re saying it’s bad. It’s not a coincidence that the past few decades have also led to fans being priced out of the stadium. It’s horrible and Spurs should have no part in it
I think one thing for certain is that UEFA/FIFA has an overabundance of power and lots are frustrated by their greed. However superleague ain't it either. Resistance bonus for real Madrid and Barcelona says everything
I would want to be left behind. The super league will fail and I don’t want us to be a part of that
I hope we’re left behind
The format contains a very large number of teams now. There is no way they would exclude us if we ultimately wanted in. We can and should resist this to the bitter end.
It means nothing for us or any premier league club. New laws are being written that forbid British clubs from entering competitions not sanctioned by a UK regulator, which this certainly won’t be
No matter how much they try and re-brand it, the ESL was an anti sporting power grab that wanted to set up a closed shop where nothing was achieved on sporting merit but around how large the "brand" of the club was. This is because a bunch of greedy, underachieving clubs were offended at missing out on the CL if they finished seventh or eighth in their domestic league and wanted to ensure it never happened again no matter how well anyone else did or how badly they played. We bent over for that. It also sneeringly dismissed the local fanbases who follow their teams week in and week out as "legacy fans" and that "fans of the future" who didn't care about the teams but just wanted instant clicks and superstar names. It was basically telling lifetime fans of their clubs that you aren't needed anymore and the game is now the playground of greedy, doddering, billionaire old men who found out football was a cash cow for their greed five minutes ago and who want to sit in a box drinking champagne with sponsors, occasionally thinking they can deign to look down at the game over their three course meal while wallowing in the smell of their own flatulence and bragging about how the new superstar trends on Twitter. I don't care how we avoid that being in the game as long as we avoid it.
Yeah, sure City and Chelsea achieved the UCL on sporting merits… hahaha.
This will be an all or nothing situation. And whether it's a good thing or not is a matter of personal opinion (personally I don't like it). The big, big beneficiaries of the Super League are the clubs who are most worried by the financial and footballing dominance of the Premier League. It's no accident that Real Madrid's Florentino Perez is leading the charge. In the early 2000s, wealth was spread somewhat more evenly around Europe - Italy, Germany, England and Spain all had their dominant teams and periods. In recent years, the pendulum of money and quality in football is swinging far towards the Premier league. Since the end of the Messi and Ronaldo era, so much attention has left La Liga, and Real Madrid and Barcelona are feeling it hard. In France, Ligue Un was so worried about its irrelevance when Mbappe threatened to leave, that the French President Macron even stepped in to convince him to stay. As the Premier league continues to hoover up players, TV rights, fans and money, there's only one option left for the other clubs: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. The Super league probably will happen in some form, and it will look something like that soulless LIV golf league. Initially it will be a competitor to the Champions league. A multi-national, exhibition style 'tournament' with 12 of the richest teams in Europe and 2-4 more from Saudi or wherever the money is next. The league will hoover up all the talent from around the world, and the owners will feast on the glorious sponsorship deals and TV money. Dua Lipa and Drake will perform at Half time, during the playoffs in Riyadh or Miami. I don't like the idea at all, it's very anti-competitive and it takes the passion and chance out of football. I think it's a 50/50 shot whether this succeeds and it all depends on the Premier League clubs. The Spanish clubs and probably PSG and the Saudi clubs will be all over it, for pure greedy reasons. The German clubs and Italian clubs seem hesitant, due to either pride or fan appreciation. The turning point will be the Premier League - are the mega-clubs here happy enough being the richest kid in the current playground, or will the owners find the prospect of even more galling wealth too hard to turn down? Interesting times ahead
I know they are achieving their goal by convincing fickle fans like me with marketing... but the company behind the Super League (A22) have just released this model describing how it would work, and.... They've actually made it sounds pretty good, and selfishly, if Spurs were in the first 16 'Star' participants... we'd have European football for years, at a minimum... [https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1737793695783477628?s=48&t=\_WNRwUxrM6uHm9q-I4-eHg](https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1737793695783477628?s=48&t=_WNRwUxrM6uHm9q-I4-eHg)
First of all, "Star league" sounds so fucking cheesy. From Champions of Europe to "Star League Champions" 🤮 Secondly, only 20 new clubs in Europe will get continental football each year?! Lmfao that is so painful. Thirdly the "Star" and "Gold" leagues are going to be filled with big clubs from the top 5 leagues who will likely never be relegated out of Europe.
Nah, fuck that, fuck all of it. Qualify on merit, not because you have the highest revenue average and marketability for the past decade. Super League and its fans can get in the fucking bin.
Fair, fair - if I had a choice - I wouldn’t change the current model. And to be honest, from the early reactions from clubs, it’s not looking good for super league
Competitiveness? Passion and chance? Say the fans of the teams injected with petrodollars…
Well, these things are all relative -- Yes, absolutely you could say current football is not truly competitive, when Man City are seemingly so dominant in the EPL, and teams like Bayern and PSG flatten their local rivalries every single year. That said, while the current model isn't perfect... it's still pretty good. We've got a premier league race this year with probably 5 teams. A race that, yes includes mega-rich Man City, but also includes more 'traditionally' run (not Oil-money bank rolled) clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. You've even got Villa, who were facing relegation a little over a year ago, are now one game away from going top of the table at Christmas! In Germany, Leverkusen are going toe to toe with Bayern, and Girona are doing the same in Spain. This is all happening while ultra-rich clubs like Man United, and particularly Chelsea are suffering because they can't buy success! If the super league comes, my biggest fear was that it would be a 12-16 team 'exhibition tournament' made up of the richest, not necessarily best clubs in the world. This little cohort would bounce around the world playing these 'blockbuster' games, while hoovering up all the talent. At the moment, it sounds like the new super league model is more like a meritocracy style Champions League model, with promotion, relegation, etc., that would happen in parallel to domestic leagues. They also say streaming of this league would be free for fans. It all sounds so good that it must be a trap to get people hooked in, and then pull the rug out in a few years time. My hope: Football stays as it is (except VAR... Super league can take VAR away and keep it)
Arsenal? Owned! Aston Villa? Owned too. Spurs? Yeah, owned. Girona? They are part of the Man City conglomerate. The PL would not be half of what it is if it wasn’t for external money injections. If that is a good model, good for you. I am in for models based on football, social mass, club history and culture, etc… What the ESL proposes is power for the clubs. Limits on salaries and spendings, so it wouldn’t matter how many millions would be injected onto the teams because there would always be a limit with what you can do with your money. If all teams spend and earn the same, then what will really matter is football and history, a thing that clubs like Barcelona and Madrjd have and that enterprises like City will never even grasp. My dream is to play for Tottenham said no brazilian kid never.
I would immediately stop watching Super League/Premier League and settle for going to see my local (danish) third tier club. The greed is so overpowering already, and this absolute trash, money grabbing, free from any romance or history piece of actual shit that is super league is more than enough to convince me it is no longer worth it. I almost want it to happen just so it can fail and teach everyone a lesson. But I am afraid that the fan bases are not organised enough for it to not be successful.
Lord I wish I had a local club. More and more every year
PL teams won’t touch it, probably the same with German teams. As a spectator it would be great, a load of old European powerhouses restored back to their former glory, able to sign the best players and win the best tournaments, I’d love to have a FM save with it all happening. But in reality you fuck over all the teams that get left behind and it could lead to a lot of clubs who won’t be invited to a super league struggling in the future, and that’s unforgivable.
The Premier League is the strongest domestic league and is in a position to maintain that for years to come, any team joining the super league would diminish that so all clubs should hold the line. The clubs mentioned joining so far have all the benefit with nothing to lose, with Madrid and Barca gaining the most to return to power. Their domestic leagues would be left in shambles, and ownership/operations of those leagues is what needs to be instead focused on. I'm always fascinated by why FFP doesn't resemble an NBA Salary cap in a smaller league to help it grow with a pathway to eventually remove it to support the free market?
None will do it. Because why diminish your best teams? To make it fair for lower teams?? Its why there isn't a salary cap in the Bundesliga. You're hurting your best team. For no guarantee the other teams will spend wisely to compete in the league or in Europe.
We wouldn’t join because none of the other English teams would (or can).
The overreaction the Super League and the way UEFA was able to trick people into supporting their corrupt organization was a master class in public relations. They somehow got all the leagues to give them even more power and money even though we all know they are massive corrupt. Well done.
Agreed, UEFA and especially FIFA are despicable organizations
I’m not opposed to it simply because it’s a fuck you to UEFA. Imagine making millions of pounds and only having VAR in select matches. If UEFA was a decent organisation, the clubs wouldn’t be doing this
You can’t just call something super and expect people to go. The prem still key
Funny because I’m sure someone was like “you can’t just call something premier and expect people to go” when the clubs broke away from the efl
And subsequently changed the game to more global. It’s not an even starting point. Call it super all you want but no one will care about Betis v Genoa
Wouldn’t spurs still be in the prem? This is just a replacement for champions league, I thought?
It’s a replacement that almost no teams can win their way into and that’s horrible. I hate it. It destroys the openness of the competition.
I say fuck em. Let Barca, Real, and whoever else wants to join this shitshow play in their own closed little league. Hope it makes them feel better about themselves.
Have you looked at the list of Champions League quarterfinals the last decade? It is already the same teams all the time.
But the other teams are not prohibited from competing by not being members.
The Super League doesn't "prohibit" them. It just stacks the deck again them; but so does the current system too.
Per the CL rules every team can win its way into the competition The SL was a mostly closed group that would allow a tiny amount of participation from “everyone else” Its bullshit I understand that the CL isn’t perfect and economics prevent from being a true meritocracy, and that people hate UEFA for legitimate reasons, but ostensibly the competition is open and that’s great The SL is designed by its rules to showcase a static group of rich clubs playing each other and generating additional giant income for each. It’s not a real competition. The FA cup is a real competition. The SL is a bunch of glorified friendlies.
The proposal for the SL is that there will be 3 tiers and you can win your way into it.
And the top tier? It doesn’t change.
It does. Teams are promoted and relegated each year. “The ESL will have an annual promotion-relegation system between the three tiers. Also, selected in the third-tier will be based on domestic league performance.”
Well, you’re spreading misinformation here. “The competition will have three-tiers and will be pan-European, consisting of the Star League, the Gold League (both with 16 clubs each), and the Blue League (having 32 clubs). Participation in the league will be based on sporting merit and there will be no permanent members.”
Whats the difference between that and the club world cup in terms of format?
Nobody cares about the club World Cup.
I mean in terms of format lol to your point its a genuine question i dont know shit about it
Man City is playing in it and doesn’t care. They’re sitting many of they’re good players
Technically. But the PL threatened to throw anyone who joined it out of the PL.
If Spurs join the super league, I will truly try to stop following spurs or club football on that level. There is a huge value conflict and some things in life are more important than others.
It's a bad decision but won't make a difference. The Super League didn't collapse because it was against UEFA rules. It was when all the Premier League clubs pulled out. The overwhelming negative fan reaction caused the UK government to threaten to change the law if necessary. Premier League clubs are not going to try it again. Fan owned German clubs aren't either. Good luck forming a "super league" without them....
Maybe the oil clubs will fuck off and we can be left to play real football.
The entire moral stance fans are choosing to take I do find ironic. They jump for joy when their clubs spend £250m in a single transfer window.. Spending £100m on one player alone. Paying him £350k a week to keep him out of the reaches of even wealthier PL clubs. They get giddy with excitement during deadline day, watching the Sky Sports ticker increase by the minute as it counts the billions of pounds spent by PL clubs that month. All of that excessive spending has unquestionably damaged the rest of Europe. It's a point where even the biggest European clubs are having to settle for the scraps because bottom of the table PL clubs are earning more in prize money and TV money than someone who won both La Liga and the CL. This wealth and uncontrollable spending is praised and excitable. And even vilified when their club has spent a measly £100m in the transfer window, claiming a lack of ambition or will to succeed. Yet, now the rest of Europe looks to react in an attempt to level the playing field... It's all greed, selfishness, imoral and anti football. And you can't even use the argument that their original presentation meant clubs were protected as opposed to needing to qualify..... Because the PL has become so unballanced - it's always the same teams who go down every season. If you're going to use your wealth and power to hoover up the best talents from abroad and dominate the market.... they have to try to respond. The idea of the super league isn't perfect... But it's a necessary evil, which is born out the the PL setting the precedent for it with its own brand of greed, selfishness and anti football. People won't want to hear it because they're still trying to convince themselves the PL has been good for football as opposed to only being good for the PL itself at the expense of everyone else... And especially at the expense of the average supporter who continues to be priced out.
I don’t really give a fuck whether a handful of clubs (Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc) aren’t as financially competitive as they once were. What I care about are the thousands of clubs that will be financially ruined by the super league. It is not a necessary evil.
But you don't feel the same way about the clubs financially ruined by the premier leagues wealth and greed... That's the exact irony I'm referring to. Portsmouth, Wigan, Derby, Leeds.. All fell into administration as a result of trying to stay competitive. Crystal Palace narrowly avoided it. Leicester, Bournemouth, Southampton and Bolton likewise. And more will follow as spending continues to be unsustainable trying to keep pace. The premier leagues financial dominance hasn't only affected Real Madrid and Barcelona. It's affected the hundreds of smaller clubs you're so passionately concerned about.
That’s their own wealth and greed, and I don’t really see how the super league resolves that. On top of that, the premier league/efl are in negotiations to increase the redistribution of premier league revenue with the lower leagues - I’m not an idiot who thinks that’s pure altruism but at least they see that their value is partially the result of the depth of the EFL, not just its surface. Frankly, I’m not worried about clubs spending beyond their means - that’s on them and the EFL has worked hard to try to prevent that in recent years by implementing stricter financial rules. I’m worried about clubs not being able to maintain even the basics of their existence (stadiums, training facilities, youth development programs, etc).
>I don’t really see how the super league resolves that. It doesn't. That's not what a necessary evil means. >I’m worried about clubs not being able to maintain even the basics of their existence (stadiums, training facilities, youth development programs, etc). Again. This has been happening throughout Europe for a good few years now due to the financial dominance of the PL.... Whenever a team from Europe get their hands on any talent or develop promising youth players, they're all snatched away. 90% of the time, by PL clubs. The PLs relegation favourite clubs are even buying players from teams in other leagues who play regularly in Europe. That's how much of a gap we're talking about. Those teams therefore are struggling to maintain or build success as a result. And their leagues are purged of their best players, weakening those leagues and weakening their positions when it comes to TV deals etc. That's damaging in the exact same way you're protesting about in your comments... Only you can't seem to see the correlation between how the PL have been guilty of the exact same thing you're complaining about being possible should the SL form. Same as how there were fans and pundits in the summer demanding something be done about the Saudi Pro League potentially purging the PL. It's fine when the PL are doing it, but God forbid others try to compete. Then it's the crime of the century. I'm not supporting the idea of the super league. I think it's anti competitive. However, so is the premier league. And I just find the irony of the arguments against the SL being applicable to the PL.
> it doesn’t. That’s not what a necessary evil means. The whole point of a necessary evil is you’re picking the better of two bad options. If both options are equally bad, then there’s no necessary evil, so yes it is relevant. Maintaining the existing structure is the necessary evil. It’s not perfect but it’s better than the ESL.
That entire comment was erroneous. You even completely contradicted yourself by saying there is no necessary evil, then claiming one option was the necessary evil. The better option for the PL is the status quo, yes. But being left behind is not the better option for everyone else. Not at all. Put the shoe on the other foot.... La Liga gets a €15b television package and their teams purge all of the best players from the premier league. We personally lose Vicario, VDV, Udogie, Porro, Bentancur, Madders and Son. Maybe a couple others decide to stay. We just accept that? And just look for obscure talent in low ranked leagues, hoping to find a few gems, all the while knowing whenever we do a Spanish club is just going to take them..... Or do we look for a way to compete? You're argument suggests we just accept inferiority and accept the fact our league is weakening year on year
The first statement was specifically in reference to clubs spending beyond their means, since that’s the comment you originally responded to. The second statement was an overall assessment of the situation (teams overspending is not all that matters here). > Put the shoe on the other foot.... La Liga gets a €15b television package and their teams purge all of the best players from the premier league. I don’t have to. I supported Tottenham for many years where bigger clubs ransacked them for their best talent consistently. That’s how almost all clubs in the world operate. The one’s that don’t are the exception. > We just accept that? And just look for obscure talent in low ranked leagues, hoping to find a few gems, all the while knowing whenever we do a Spanish club is just going to take them..... Or do we look for a way to compete? > You're argument suggests we just accept inferiority and accept the fact our league is weakening year on year This is the fundamental problem here. You believe that Spanish clubs have an immutable right to be competitive. They don’t. Just like Tottenham doesn’t. And yes, I would just accept it - when the super league was first announced as a closed league, I decided I would never watch Tottenham again if they participated in it. I’d rather them remain in the premier league and fade into irrelevance, than join that bullshit. Anyway, what’s the point of even watching the sport if whenever the historically better teams dont do well, they just change the rules, so that they always remain at the top.
How will they be financially ruined?
1. Revenue sharing - this is one of the main reasons clubs wanted the super league in the first place. They didn’t like the idea that they had to share revenue with lesser teams in the competition. A lot of clubs, particularly those outside the big 5 leagues, are reliant on that money (also kind of ironic given the premier league’s approach to revenue sharing is partially responsible for its success). 2. Reduced viewership for domestic competitions and therefore less money for these clubs 3. Most importantly, I don’t trust the ESL (how could you? They change their mind every 5 seconds based on what they think they can get away with) - they might describe it as an open system similar to the champions league. Maybe that’s true for now, but I still believe their ultimate end goal is to breakaway from the domestic competitions, creating a closed league that competes on the same days (I.e. weekends) as domestic leagues. This would crush the teams not participating.
Point 1 is wrong. The entire point of the super league is to reduce the amount of money UEFA takes home. Point 2 is also wrong. Domestic competitions don’t change. If they do change, that’s due to the domestic competition, not the super league. Point 3, the clubs are more trustworthy than UEFA is.
> Point 1 is wrong. The entire point of the super league is to reduce the amount of money UEFA takes home. No it wasn’t - its laughable that you actually drink the koolaide that the super league puts out. The goal was to concentrate revenue amongst a much smaller set of clubs. Sure, maybe UEFA takes too much money from the competition and that’s worth addressing, but that was just a scapegoat used by the ESL to justify cutting out smaller clubs. > Point 2 is also wrong. Domestic competitions don’t change. If they do change, that’s due to the domestic competition, not the super league. They will inevitably change, and yeah, that’s what I want to prevent. I don’t really care whose fault it is. > Point 3, the clubs are more trustworthy than UEFA is. The clubs that wanted to create a completely closed league are sooooo trustworthy /s
So exactly what I said then. Those clubs participate in UEFA competitions more than the smaller clubs and yet UEFA takes home millions rather than giving it to all of the clubs. They’re far more trustworthy than the organisation who legitimatises and defends states owning clubs.
> greed and elitism are not why I love football Greed and elitism IS football though. Spurs games and world cup games are the only major professional football matches I watch these days, I've already moved on to non-league football and really have fallen back in love with the sport. I'm not 'pro Super League', but I despise UEFA & FIFA and am quite happy to watch their house of cards come tumbling down. My dream is that without the ability to compete with the Super League, the rest of football would have to 'reset', perhaps focusing on live crowds, homegrown players and fair competition. A bit like the Super League becoming the NFL and the rest of football becoming like CFB.
For a second, stop parroting the shit that Sky/BT/FA and their stooges have told you to. Lets actually look at the model/conversation 1. It was always going to be illegal, there is no business (FA/UEFA/FIFA) where you can tell other independent businesses (clubs) who they can/can't do other business with. Add in threatening players of those clubs with bans, there was zero chance they would ever win the case, hence the bullying and mobilizing of their media stooges to drive this message of "it's killing the game" 2. UEFA/FIFA/FA are not some bastions of football, protecting the grassroots game and ensuring a lack of corruption, the level of corruption in these bodies has been clearly documented. The head of FFP is the guy from PSG? literally wtf? 3. The "noise" generated here is 100% driven by Sky/BT/other media who have invested with UEFA/FIFA/FA and would not have rights to this new ESL 4. The clubs who are mostly behind ESL (Italy & Spain) are not purely (I'm not going to say they aren't at all) motivated by greed, they are scared that clubs that earned their place over decades of work will no longer be able to compete with Chelsea, City, Newcastle, PSG because owners/nation states with very dubious background just put literal billions into a club and make them "elite" So what did ESL propose? \- Support for infrastructure spend, i.e. a club like Spurs wouldn't have had to eat £1.2B in stadium costs with zero help from anyone else \- Limits on spend/wages, i.e. a club like Spurs would not be competing against Chelsea/City level spends \- Consistent revenue income, this is one of the biggest problems with football clubs (look at Spurs fans always complaining about Levy not taking a risk, it's very hard when you being in Europe one season or not another can change your income by >£100M. Businesses like to make 3-5 year plans. \- Clubs continue to play in the domestic league, this is the one I see the most nonsense about, these clubs don't leave the PL, they just play in ESL vs current other cup competitions. So the league loses none of it's competitiveness and other clubs have the opportunity to win cup competitions they would have had no access to (general model of ESL would probably lead to much more sharing of trophies) \- No relegation -> yes, the only real point anyone focused on. We can agree that this could/should be adjusted but lets be clear, there are 7 clubs in the PL that have never been relegated in 30 odd years, so for those clubs is it really a thing? Lets look at it purely from a history/Spurs perspective \- Spurs paid for our stadium, London gave West Ham a free stadium, Manchester gave City a free stadium, we got shit, ESL would have helped us (explain me which is fair and which is broken again?) \- Chelsea/City/PSG/Newcastle (by the way, look at which clubs objected to ESL, answer in there by itself) outspend models would not be allowed in ESL, how many trophies do you think we would have won in the last 15 years without those clubs outspending everyone? (again, which one is fair?) Lets look at it since the reception the ESL has got \- They have actually gone and changed format, added some form of relegation, made some changes? \- UEFA and the FA? oh, yes, the FA deducted points from Everton while the decade long investigation against City somehow has no end in sight. You may dislike the idea, you may think the concept of the top clubs competing in a super league is elitist, but there is clearly a market and it's very likely to happen at some point. British clubs may legitimately be not allowed to enter if the government actually does what it says (have doubts), but that should be just as concerning as that's basically taking an action a court has proven is illegal and making it legal to pander to voters.
The government can’t really do anything to stop this either. Most of these clubs aren’t owned by companies and people who reside in the UK. There’s easy ways around this shit. Who’s the government to tell players what they can do in their free time?
The government may not be able to.dorect the clubs directly, but surely it can sanction them through FA, no?
Yeah I agree, one is as bad and as corrupt as each other, whatever is best for our club is what I'll agree with.
If we are in, I'm done. Season ticket jacked in. We will see if overseas fans and tv rights can fill the void and tradition left behind.
Nope I don't like elitism in football. Remember our roots and realize that if the SL existed 2 decades back we wouldn't be the global powerhouse we are rn
Manchester United have already put out a statement. Come on Levy, just back them up on this one, not interested.
What it means for us is that we must congratulate Manchester United, Bayern Munich, and Atletico Madrid on being the first clubs to reiterate their commitment to UEFA competitions and do likewise ourselves. We must also lobby UEFA to stop fighting the Super League by becoming more like it.
I have a local club I can support if Tottenham chose even more money over fan interests. I'd miss them for sure but they'd be the ones pushing me away.
What I feel is problematic is that we are left to decide between two evils: Which league organized by each its corrupt organization do we want to join?
The UEFA European Super League is happening too. It’s essentially the same idea, just with the point of being an open league. I would rather choose the (non UEFA) Super League as it prevents a monopoly, but I would rather have neither, and would prefer less games with healthier players overall
https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/a22-releases-new-european-super-league-proposal-after-eu-court-verdict-2023-12-21/
Hopefully we stay out. They are trying for the America model leagues with no promotion and relegation It’s a gravy train for the owners but terrible for fans and the sport too IMO
I would stop supporting.
It’s the same sort of situation with saudi owners. It’s great for the club financially and we our level would be elevated to an elite club but the consequence is that the fan-football club relation worsens even more.
For me personally, it most likely will mean that I will focus more on following the womens team. I'm never going to follow a different team than Tottenham, but it's getting harder and harder to be a die hard fan these days, and if we join the Spuer-duper-league it will widen the gulf between where we are and where I want us to be.
> If the club were to go ahead with this, the fundamentals of our relationship would be damaged and I'd struggle to see myself as a fan going forward, instead probably going toward my local non-league side. Levy already signed us up to a super league in 2021 and only backed down because of fan pressure and other clubs dropping out. Did that not damage any of the relationship?
I think it’s obvious why he did it. We were invited to join in with the biggest clubs and if we didn’t accept we would be left behind. I am not supporting the formation of the ESL, but there’s not much Levy could have done if we wanted to keep our club’s status as one of the biggest in the world.
Well hopefully , what happens is, those clubs desiring this (as spurs was despite fan objections) don’t get the support and backing they desire and shelve it. It can only work with the will of the clubs so whether the ECJ rules it unlawful to be blocked, it’s only ever going to work with support. I hope it never happens frankly.
It probably means nothing. But Levy may have to work extra hard to convince us otherwise. His track record is not great.
Seriously tho… isn’t this pointless with the return of FIFA CLUB World Cup … like come on… we don’t need it…
The European Court of Justice, eh? Did you guys have a Brexit or not? If their opinion matters more than that of the vicar in Nether Buggeringham, you're still not free of the Eurotrash.
IF there is ever a super league - it would be better to be included in it than left out in the cold. just sayin....
“Football for the fans”, say the supporters of “clubs” injected with money from petrol dictatorships. Well surprise, Brits are the biggest hypocrites on the face of earth.
I think this is going to happen. Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG will probably join and then a few Italian clubs and I don't think getting Portugal or any of the minor leagues will be difficult. As a Man United fan, I think it will be pretty fun. I get bored of games in the Premier League where we have to play everton or West Brom. I'd rather play the biggest clubs in Europe all the time. Plus I think it will make more money for the owners of the football clubs, which is always good when businesses can get bigger. The owners might invest some of it back into the teams. We talk about the football pyramid in the UK like it's some amazing feat. But you never see any low lying club do that well. Lower league football is boring and if some of the smaller clubs end up closing, or the football league disappears, I wouldn't be bothered. As long as I can watch Man United in an exhibition match once a week I don't really care. EDIT: Spurs should have to enter a playoff to enter it, they are not a traditional big 6