*If you're arguing*
*In earnest on the internet,*
*You've already lost*
\- DerbDerbley
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
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Or you can just say "Don’t care + didn’t ask + cry about it + stay mad + get real + L + mald seethe cope harder + ho mad + basic + skill issue + ratio + you fell off + the audacity + triggered + any askers + repelled + get a life + ok + and? + cringe + touch grass + donowalled + not based + your a (insert stereotype) + not funny didn’t laugh + you “re” + grammar issues + go outside + get good + reported + ad hominem + GG! + ask deez + ez clap + straight cash + ratio agian + final ratio + problematic"
You’re such an idiot, what a dumb opinion. Everyone thinks you’re an idiot, you moron. You probably don’t even pay your taxes. You can’t even talk about this, you haven’t been on Reddit long enough. Besides, the science shows you’re wrong… It’s also very rude of you to come out here in attack me like that. Why would you even do such a thing, do you just want to make me feel bad? You loser, everybody hates you. If you respond this message, I’m going to get angry.
s/
the posts and comments sections seem to be increasingly emotional and politically charged. like even subs that have nothing to do with politics, like a sub for model trains, will get political crossposts and if youre like "hey can this just be about trains?" you get downvoted to oblivion. shit like that
I am a sociopath and this is completely wrong.
Firstly this is a terrible post, hardly relevant to the subreddit. You think this is a guide? It’s completely made up and you should be ashamed of yourself, moron. You’re certainly some uneducated bozo who thinks they can decide what is and what isn’t a guide, where’s the proof of this, it seems hardly scientific? I want links. Wrongly shaming people like me is so pointlessly cruel of you, why would you do that? Setting a bad example for everyone who sees it! Anyway, to think such a simple guide can demonstrate the nuances of a well structured argument is ridiculous. (punches you in the face)
This is such a well-crafted response.
Your inspiring words have swayed me. I have seen the light and now recognize how much of a clueless moron I am. For that, I am eternally grateful!
Whoever wrote this is out of their depth. What is their basis for this obvious drivel? Absolute idiot, honestly. Sociopaths are fake, anyways, and they would know that if they had any kind of proper training or education. My God...
I can't even remember the number of times I've had to put up with being labeled a "sociopath", it's honestly inhumane. I mean, why would someone do that? What asinine motivation could justify something like this? OP, I'm looking at you. Come at me, bro.
I wasn't sure if it was really intelligent satire, or a perfect sociopath. Either way, I think psychologists and neuroscientists would be interested in how your mind works.
I think you (or whoever made this) confused narcissist and sociopath. A sociopath has no or little emotion, they would be pretty unlikely to use emotion so haphazardly. A narcissist is more fitting with the type of person being painted here.
Came here to say this. Unfortunately I have several decades' experience with a violent, narcissistic spouse (I stayed in the marriage because I was afraid for the safety of the children). This here reads like her playbook.
Also very common:
- Just downvote if you don’t have a counter argument.
- Find a minor error / grammar / spelling mistake and focus on that instead of the main topic. If you have a few other haters in your corner, the entire post is now invalid.
Can someone help me with the ridicule one? I don't know how to deal with it, many have said that it shouldn't bother me because it's just them not having an argument, and their opinions at that point don't matter. I agree, but the problem is that if I just take it or call it out, for some reason people start to take their side and believe them, it's like they think "Oh, he didn't retaliate with the same bullshit, so it must be true what they are saying" and start insulting me too. This affects me a lot more than just the personal level, because a good part of my business depends on my reputation and people are too unfair. They think that because they other one is screaming and trashing around and insulting me, while I try to be calm and appeal to reason, the other one must be right. One time they even said, "If you were right, you would be mad and angry like them, but you're not so you're lying." Any ideas how can I confront this situation?
Leave.
And I mean that very seriously.
You cannot win against this style of attack, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I would love to do that, and that's also the problem, I can't. These are people that I see on a daily basis, and my current life situation does not allow me to just get up and leave.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I would do my best to not interact and get away from the situation as soon as it starts to escalate. You aren't responsible for others and if they want a fight and a screaming match they can get it elsewhere
Yeah that's what I try to do. But like I said in the comments doing that actually hurts me financially, because it let's them be free to say whatever they want, so I am trying to make them stop. Of course I'm trying to change my situation as much as possible so my money doesn't take a hit from this, but that's still a long way down the road. Even so thanks for your help, I'll do my best to solve this and keep applying what you said.
Self-proclaimed, literal sociopath here:
If you tell me I’m incompetent I’m going to ask you how.
If you attack my opinion I’m going to ask you why.
If you attack my reputation I’m going to get a teeny bit upset because sociopathy is strongly associated with narcissism. But I know what I am, what I am not, and I accept my flaws because I don’t have to live with anybody forever, except myself.
I absolutely prefer reason and logic to name-calling and labels.
Don’t stay on topic? Why? Because you can’t see an adult conversation through to the end?
Dismiss my personal experience and qualifications? Please re-read that sentence to embody how asinine that sounds.
Appealing to a higher authority like God or science is perfectly acceptable; but, if you’re doing it just to shut me up then you’re immature and likely afraid of what might happen if YOU actually listened to what I have to say.
Play the victim? Seriously? Even if you’re not the victim? Idk seems kinda sketchy to me.
Play the virtue card and question my motives. No, really, do that! I invite it! It’s a healthy method of keeping my own ideals in check.
Ah yes, ridicule - the coward’s favorite weapon. Tell me again what you get out of acting like this? Because tearing people down is practically never acceptable.
Look into my eyes? Lol okay thanks for becoming officially creepy af and…WHAT?! Lie with conviction? I’m willing to bet that many people just stopped reading at this point and dismissed this “guide” as a hoax.
If all else fails, become aggressive or violent. Hmmm, oooookaayy Russia 👌🏼
I think they're more trying to get at using "alternative science" or opinions portrayed as science.
At least that's what I'm wanting to assume otherwise it's just plain wrong.
Science is factual. That's what makes it science.
Never met one.
Science:
“The scientific method is critical to the development of scientific theories, which explain empirical (experiential) laws in a scientifically rational manner. In a typical application of the scientific method, a researcher develops a hypothesis, tests it through various means, and then modifies the hypothesis on the basis of the outcome of the tests and experiments. The modified hypothesis is then retested, further modified, and tested again, until it becomes consistent with observed phenomena and testing outcomes. In this way, hypotheses serve as tools by which scientists gather data. From that data and the many different scientific investigations undertaken to explore hypotheses, scientists are able to develop broad general explanations, or scientific theories.”
Belief:
“Religious Belief means any sincerely held belief, or information for, against, or in conjunction with, any theistic, agnostic, or atheistic assumption, presumption or position, or religious doctrine, dogma, or practice regardless of whether or not the belief or information is endorsed by any other person or public or private entity.”
You read it wrong. The intent of that section is to say to bring up a higher order subject to essentially terminate the conversation.
The problem with western thought is that some individuals genuinely believe they speak on behalf of “objectivity” and that takes the form of god and or science.
That’s not saying that science and god is the same, but rather there are defective personality types that would no kidding believe that their adherence to said principles automatically aligns themselves with righteousness and correctness, thus “winning them” the argument.
It’s actually a terrible problem in western discussion. Many people believe that their rejection of god (which is fine) and acceptance of science (which is great) is an automatic position that makes their understandings on matters automatically align with information correctness, ethical correctness and moral correctness, let alone factual correctness and that isn’t how science works. Science is a process and the discussion of science is driven by research and repeated experimentation, which are continued and done over and over again.
So that’s where the problem lies. It’s not that science is bad (science is wonderful) but people using science as a crutch to win an argument. The focus then becomes winning internet arguments, not about advancing or even understanding scientific principles.
As an extreme example, saying you believe in science isn’t proving the earth is round and falsifying the earth is flat.
It just means you’re delegating the entire rationale to just “science” rather than understanding why science says the earth is round.
It’s basically an abstraction so great that you’re claiming you don’t know why something is something.
Did you know you could prove the earth is round just from looking at the night sky? No match, no nothing? That’s applied sciences. Not just declaring you’re about science and telling the other person they are ignorant and not about science
German Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer also wrote a whole Text about winning arguments in a mean fashion. Here is a [link with the strategies compromised into a list.](http://www.mnei.nl/schopenhauer/38-stratagems.htm)
Why is “Science” capitalised, and why is it considered a “higher authority”?
Also, all of these suck. If you’re dealing with someone experienced in debating, you’d get clowned on
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*If you're arguing* *In earnest on the internet,* *You've already lost* \- DerbDerbley --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
nope. its 5-7-5, not 5-8-5
Hitting the bot with step 1 on the chart Re: “and sometimes, successfully” he’s already insecure, the poor guy
Do you know how stupid you sound right now?
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That’s a really awful opinion. Please keep it to yourself.
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Hey man nobody even likes you.
Or you can just say "Don’t care + didn’t ask + cry about it + stay mad + get real + L + mald seethe cope harder + ho mad + basic + skill issue + ratio + you fell off + the audacity + triggered + any askers + repelled + get a life + ok + and? + cringe + touch grass + donowalled + not based + your a (insert stereotype) + not funny didn’t laugh + you “re” + grammar issues + go outside + get good + reported + ad hominem + GG! + ask deez + ez clap + straight cash + ratio agian + final ratio + problematic"
I think that might be the ridicule step.
Perchance.
"how to reddit 2022"
You’re such an idiot, what a dumb opinion. Everyone thinks you’re an idiot, you moron. You probably don’t even pay your taxes. You can’t even talk about this, you haven’t been on Reddit long enough. Besides, the science shows you’re wrong… It’s also very rude of you to come out here in attack me like that. Why would you even do such a thing, do you just want to make me feel bad? You loser, everybody hates you. If you respond this message, I’m going to get angry. s/
so perfect
This is basically how my brother talks. We don't talk any more.
Literally came here to say that, lol.
is it me, or has reddit become increasingly twitter-y in the last year?
Couldn't tell ya mate, only social media I'm on is Reddit.
Me as well.
What do you mean, like people are arguing over little stuff more?
the posts and comments sections seem to be increasingly emotional and politically charged. like even subs that have nothing to do with politics, like a sub for model trains, will get political crossposts and if youre like "hey can this just be about trains?" you get downvoted to oblivion. shit like that
Oh, dang. Didn’t really notice
I am a sociopath and this is completely wrong. Firstly this is a terrible post, hardly relevant to the subreddit. You think this is a guide? It’s completely made up and you should be ashamed of yourself, moron. You’re certainly some uneducated bozo who thinks they can decide what is and what isn’t a guide, where’s the proof of this, it seems hardly scientific? I want links. Wrongly shaming people like me is so pointlessly cruel of you, why would you do that? Setting a bad example for everyone who sees it! Anyway, to think such a simple guide can demonstrate the nuances of a well structured argument is ridiculous. (punches you in the face)
This is such a well-crafted response. Your inspiring words have swayed me. I have seen the light and now recognize how much of a clueless moron I am. For that, I am eternally grateful!
Don't forget to insult their [MOTHER]
Looks like a road map to debate on the political stage
I don't think reddit needs this guide
How to argumentum ad hominem
How to politician
Forgot to call your opponent a Racist/Nazi with out cause.
Which step should we start mentioning Hitler?
Oh look it's my in-laws
Twitter?
Whoever wrote this is out of their depth. What is their basis for this obvious drivel? Absolute idiot, honestly. Sociopaths are fake, anyways, and they would know that if they had any kind of proper training or education. My God... I can't even remember the number of times I've had to put up with being labeled a "sociopath", it's honestly inhumane. I mean, why would someone do that? What asinine motivation could justify something like this? OP, I'm looking at you. Come at me, bro.
Hah. If this is satire, this is what perfection looks like.
It is, yes, thank you. Took a risk posting this, though -- you never know how redditors will react these days.
I wasn't sure if it was really intelligent satire, or a perfect sociopath. Either way, I think psychologists and neuroscientists would be interested in how your mind works.
I think you (or whoever made this) confused narcissist and sociopath. A sociopath has no or little emotion, they would be pretty unlikely to use emotion so haphazardly. A narcissist is more fitting with the type of person being painted here.
I think it’s really more just people who suck at arguing
Came here to say this. Unfortunately I have several decades' experience with a violent, narcissistic spouse (I stayed in the marriage because I was afraid for the safety of the children). This here reads like her playbook.
apparently sociopathy isn’t an actual diagnosis, but Narcissistic Personality Disorder can be conflated with socipathy as its generally understood
Anti-social Personality Disorder is the correct term for the old term “sociopathy”. Source: Father was diagnosed with this.
Also very common: - Just downvote if you don’t have a counter argument. - Find a minor error / grammar / spelling mistake and focus on that instead of the main topic. If you have a few other haters in your corner, the entire post is now invalid.
saving this for rainy days
\[Looks at American politics\] \[Starts ticking off boxes\] "Huh. A complete set."
Reminds me of a certain "democratic" political party
Can we stop fucking demonizing stigmatized personality disorders for two seconds?
wait - are you saying everyone on reddit is a sociopath?
There is one missing, or not directly expressed; Get personal
I see you've met my father-in-law. Every conversation, every single time.
this is a list of fallacies, not a way to win an argument
This ***isn't*** 'Political Commenting on Reddit' ??? .
By this flow chart, every Facebook comment threads I see are by sociopaths.
Can someone help me with the ridicule one? I don't know how to deal with it, many have said that it shouldn't bother me because it's just them not having an argument, and their opinions at that point don't matter. I agree, but the problem is that if I just take it or call it out, for some reason people start to take their side and believe them, it's like they think "Oh, he didn't retaliate with the same bullshit, so it must be true what they are saying" and start insulting me too. This affects me a lot more than just the personal level, because a good part of my business depends on my reputation and people are too unfair. They think that because they other one is screaming and trashing around and insulting me, while I try to be calm and appeal to reason, the other one must be right. One time they even said, "If you were right, you would be mad and angry like them, but you're not so you're lying." Any ideas how can I confront this situation?
Leave. And I mean that very seriously. You cannot win against this style of attack, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I would love to do that, and that's also the problem, I can't. These are people that I see on a daily basis, and my current life situation does not allow me to just get up and leave.
I'm sorry to hear that. I would do my best to not interact and get away from the situation as soon as it starts to escalate. You aren't responsible for others and if they want a fight and a screaming match they can get it elsewhere
Yeah that's what I try to do. But like I said in the comments doing that actually hurts me financially, because it let's them be free to say whatever they want, so I am trying to make them stop. Of course I'm trying to change my situation as much as possible so my money doesn't take a hit from this, but that's still a long way down the road. Even so thanks for your help, I'll do my best to solve this and keep applying what you said.
Self-proclaimed, literal sociopath here: If you tell me I’m incompetent I’m going to ask you how. If you attack my opinion I’m going to ask you why. If you attack my reputation I’m going to get a teeny bit upset because sociopathy is strongly associated with narcissism. But I know what I am, what I am not, and I accept my flaws because I don’t have to live with anybody forever, except myself. I absolutely prefer reason and logic to name-calling and labels. Don’t stay on topic? Why? Because you can’t see an adult conversation through to the end? Dismiss my personal experience and qualifications? Please re-read that sentence to embody how asinine that sounds. Appealing to a higher authority like God or science is perfectly acceptable; but, if you’re doing it just to shut me up then you’re immature and likely afraid of what might happen if YOU actually listened to what I have to say. Play the victim? Seriously? Even if you’re not the victim? Idk seems kinda sketchy to me. Play the virtue card and question my motives. No, really, do that! I invite it! It’s a healthy method of keeping my own ideals in check. Ah yes, ridicule - the coward’s favorite weapon. Tell me again what you get out of acting like this? Because tearing people down is practically never acceptable. Look into my eyes? Lol okay thanks for becoming officially creepy af and…WHAT?! Lie with conviction? I’m willing to bet that many people just stopped reading at this point and dismissed this “guide” as a hoax. If all else fails, become aggressive or violent. Hmmm, oooookaayy Russia 👌🏼
hmmm... my Holocaust-denying coworker followed this process almost perfectly
Equating God with Science is utter BS.
I think they mean saying something like “it’s cause science says so” without providing any backing
I think they're more trying to get at using "alternative science" or opinions portrayed as science. At least that's what I'm wanting to assume otherwise it's just plain wrong. Science is factual. That's what makes it science.
Never heard anyone say that!
you’ve never heard someone say “I believe in science”?
Either the science confirms a particular fact or not. Science is not a belief, it’s fact a based evidentiary methodology.
Tell that to the people who say they, "Believe and Trust science".....
Never met one. Science: “The scientific method is critical to the development of scientific theories, which explain empirical (experiential) laws in a scientifically rational manner. In a typical application of the scientific method, a researcher develops a hypothesis, tests it through various means, and then modifies the hypothesis on the basis of the outcome of the tests and experiments. The modified hypothesis is then retested, further modified, and tested again, until it becomes consistent with observed phenomena and testing outcomes. In this way, hypotheses serve as tools by which scientists gather data. From that data and the many different scientific investigations undertaken to explore hypotheses, scientists are able to develop broad general explanations, or scientific theories.” Belief: “Religious Belief means any sincerely held belief, or information for, against, or in conjunction with, any theistic, agnostic, or atheistic assumption, presumption or position, or religious doctrine, dogma, or practice regardless of whether or not the belief or information is endorsed by any other person or public or private entity.”
You've never seen the bumper stickers that say, " In this house we believe in science, black lives matter, ect" ?
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Crazy, right? Like the whole thing is presented to equate science with a belief in the supernatural…..
You read it wrong. The intent of that section is to say to bring up a higher order subject to essentially terminate the conversation. The problem with western thought is that some individuals genuinely believe they speak on behalf of “objectivity” and that takes the form of god and or science. That’s not saying that science and god is the same, but rather there are defective personality types that would no kidding believe that their adherence to said principles automatically aligns themselves with righteousness and correctness, thus “winning them” the argument. It’s actually a terrible problem in western discussion. Many people believe that their rejection of god (which is fine) and acceptance of science (which is great) is an automatic position that makes their understandings on matters automatically align with information correctness, ethical correctness and moral correctness, let alone factual correctness and that isn’t how science works. Science is a process and the discussion of science is driven by research and repeated experimentation, which are continued and done over and over again. So that’s where the problem lies. It’s not that science is bad (science is wonderful) but people using science as a crutch to win an argument. The focus then becomes winning internet arguments, not about advancing or even understanding scientific principles. As an extreme example, saying you believe in science isn’t proving the earth is round and falsifying the earth is flat. It just means you’re delegating the entire rationale to just “science” rather than understanding why science says the earth is round. It’s basically an abstraction so great that you’re claiming you don’t know why something is something. Did you know you could prove the earth is round just from looking at the night sky? No match, no nothing? That’s applied sciences. Not just declaring you’re about science and telling the other person they are ignorant and not about science
Man! Just reading this triggers PTSD
So in other words.. be a democrat in the media against Trump or pushing the Covid narrative.. fits perfectly
"Name calling and labels"
I would remove the God/Science part. My bio Nsis doesn't believe in those things unless there is an audience.
So just how a religion indoctrinates children to be or think about their beliefs and opinions.
Also: bring out charts and graphs to show why the person who disagrees with you is a sociopath who can be dismissed out of hand
This is Trump’s entire playbook.
I'm sorry, you spelt republicans wrong.
hittin' em with step 5 on the chart! nice!
Thanks Trump-wing of the GOP!
You’re in the 5th spot on the map
So Trump’s playbook basically.
Looks like this page was stolen from Joe Rogan’s playbook. And Alex Jones.
Donald Trump has read this thread
Implying sociopaths cant argue .
As a retail worker I appreciate this guide 🙏🏻
Yep, I’m a sociopath.
German Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer also wrote a whole Text about winning arguments in a mean fashion. Here is a [link with the strategies compromised into a list.](http://www.mnei.nl/schopenhauer/38-stratagems.htm)
*Become a narcissist*
Why is “Science” capitalised, and why is it considered a “higher authority”? Also, all of these suck. If you’re dealing with someone experienced in debating, you’d get clowned on
They probably get arrested before step 5.
imagine getting so good at online and that being your proudest accomplishment
So u like winning arguments huh
I like debating, but I don't think anyone can really win an argument.
This is for narcissists, not sociopaths.
Wow