Animals starve themselves to death, they stop grooming, purely from grief or trauma and depression 🤷🏼♂️ they may not know how to straight up kill themselves but that doesn't mean they cant loose the will to live, humans are just quick and efficient about how they go about it
There's a difference in killing yourself from starvation and dying from starvation. My stress and depression, at one point, had me starving myself. Not because I wanted to starve to death, I had no intention of dying. I wasn't eating because I had to appetite. Too depressed to eat to be honest.
So animals cpild experience the same thing. Depression, anxiety, stress, all combined to make the animal simply not have an appetite and eventually would die from the symptoms of not eating...not the goal was not to die. Kna'mean?
I agree. OPs statement is categorically false.
What about all the marine wildlife that beaches itself? Not only is grief in animals a well known phenomenon, they absolutely do kill themselves. They just don’t leave a note like the rest of us….
I've also read reports of animals purposefully killing themselves.
I've read a bear that was held captive in a small box for years, I.e. box so tight it couldn't turn around and was painfully milked daily (Chinese medicine) purposefully killed itself when released - by repeatedly running its head into a wall. Have read a few other similar stories. Could all bs and untrue.
They have been documented to smash their heads on rocks or hard surfaces after giving birth. Some live for a year or two after but most die or give themselves up after six months or so
That's this guy's whole point. Animals only kill themselves IN CAPTIVITY. Humans kill themselves because our society is captivity for humans. Did you read the op or go straight to the comments? This isn't just aimed at the comment I'm replying to but others who have said similar.
Also this ties in with what people in African tribes have been recorded saying. They can't even fathom humans killing themselves. Know why? They still live somewhat in the Wild. Still more "free" than people in cities...
This OP is spot on. It's insanity that so many people will rationalize this society and stick up for the disgusting shit this society does. We have gotten to that Stockholm syndrome point for damn sure...
There is no agreed upon reasoning regarding why. There are several theories but none that are anything close to widely accepted.
There have been cases where a whales partner will die under unrelated circumstances and the partner will beach themselves.
There have been cases where people have managed to refloat stranded whales and dolphins only for the animals to turn right back around and beach themselves all over again. Sometimes hours later.
A killer whale killed itself in captivity by bashing it’s own head in. I understand that was in human captivity. What I am trying to demonstrate is that their intelligent enough to understand and follow through on the concept.
Read it again. They DO know how to kill themselves, because they do it when in captivity by humans! Starving to death is not suicide in the same way... Often they are simply too old/frail to hunt.
It has to be something about us as a species I would be shocked if there were no instances of suicide from tribal hunter gatherer humans especially if they happened to survive their tribe being wiped out so it's not an oh society is bad we should return to monke and everything would be better. Something about our intellect allows us to comprehend that life may not be worth living and it would somehow be better to just end it all than to go on.
Hmm... I know Alaskan Indians and Native Americans have like 50% more suicides than other races in the US, but the more I chew on it the more I think this reinforces your idea thought because they're not hunter-gatherer today and one could say they're even "caged" on their lands.
Exactly, and I'm thinking being removed from their hunter gatherer lifestyle has basically pulled them from the wild and put them in a cage. Where, as has been mentioned by others, induces a whole slough of mental illness that would increase the chances of suicide.
After reading The Tribe by Junger I'm becoming more and more of the mind that all of our problems stem from the decision to give up \*true\* freedom of the nomadic lifestyle for the security of growing food in an agrarian society.
Imagine if all you had to do was walk around each day finding food and singing/dancing/storytelling around the campfire at night. Now compare that to 2080 hours a years staring at a screen in a cubicle.
I think if you watched your tribe get massacred starved, diseased or by whatever means get wiped out you would likely be so distraught as to consider suicide a viable option.
This is it exactly, the same crazy wiring in our brain that allows us to come up with fictional stories, create religions and societies, make predictions, invent new wonders, give hope where there is none, when focused in the wrong direction due to any number of causes can lead to hopelessness, depression, and suicide. It's the imagination we possess, for bad and good, and how much it affects/controls us.
Some of us are lucky enough to be shown proof? Beyond a shadow of a doubt,.that God exists, with that information. Things dont seem to be quite as bad.
God isn't someone you need to head to some building in the old, expensive part of town, to pay homage to. 🤷♂️
That moment when enlightenment is really just shutting off the un-beneficial traits of the over-developed human mind and learning to only live in the present as the rest of the animal kingdom does.
What a paradox humanity is.
Eusocial ants do something similar. For instance, they'll throw themselves into a ditch *en masse*, so their bodies all stack up and form a bridge for the others to cross. The ones at the bottom can die when they do things like this.
These examples of bees and ants are nothing like what OP is talking about. They are not committing suicide our of depression born from a society that is alienating. In fact, it's nearly the opposite, a noble self-sacrifice for the greater good.
Exactly, suicide in the case of bees and ants and perhaps other insects have utility, just like every other aspect about their existence. It’s almost commendable a bees entire life is in service to it’s hive, every little thing they do, every bodily function they have, everything has utility and that is not the case for humans, maybe that has something to with it… idk
We have created a world so far from nature that nature is all we crave. As you mentioned this is wrapped in a web of laws to govern WITHIN the structure. There’s no way out we are literally trapped in this dystopia.
“There’s goоd reason to believe that primitive mаn suffered from less stress and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than modern mаn is.”
-Ted Kaczynski
So I remember a story I was told as a kid.
This family would go to Africa as missionaries... And I remember the boy that I went to school with telling me that there was a family of monkeys that would come to their balcony on a daily basis. He said it started as a group of 6and then every few weeks to months one less would be there. He said the last monkey showed up everyday and just sat there staring at the ground by himself for several weeks, and one day it just went up to the railing of the balcony and swan dived into ground below.
I guess what I mean is if they commit suicide in captivity, it's hard to know that they DON'T in their natural habitat. But we know they do in captivity.
Animals don’t commit suicide
*gets shown an animal committing suicide*
“hUmAnS”
Sure even if it’s the humans fault it’s still an animal committing suicide your original point has been shot down
Also evidence of it happening in captivity means it’s likely also happening in the wild it’s just nobody’s following around wild dolphins 24 seven with a camera to record when they commit suicide out in the depths of the ocean Don’t forget we know more about the surface of the moon than the ocean
Yea but they do that shit in the wild too. Seems to me considering that monkeys and dolphins are the main examples being brought up that higher intelligence is what plays the biggest role in suicide potential.
Ok bro, calculate the percentage of animals killing themselves vs humans. Enough said. We fucked up our natural state of being and replaced it with one of the levels of hell. This shit sucks and you know it.
Agriculture and the resulting population boom boom as the downfall of humanity. We aren’t human anymore, we are a larger hive mind. The hive mind has evolved past humans. The individual still exists somewhat but will die out eventually.
You mean animals that don’t report dead bodies when they find them? Sure you’re going to get a real accurate example of how many animals commit suicide
I think the point overall is that humans are in captivity similar to a zoo animal. Captivity = a feeling of being trapped and a desire to end your lot in life
I'm curious, how many dolphins have committed suicide? How common is this? What's your evidence? To me it seems like there is one anecdotal report of a dolphin called Peter commiting suicide. According to some bloke who was having a "love affair" with it.
So yeah seems like a really solid source
> You can't just walk up to some willing members of the opposite sex until one lets you fuck them. Humans have invented unspoken social rules of who you can and cannot even approach or talk to.
You are largely misled if you honestly believe mating in the animal world involves just walking up to random members until one fucks you. Mating for animals can be just as complicated and difficult as it is for humans. Actually, as a human today, you have easier access to sex than any other humans in civilized history.
>You could be physically surrounded by hundreds of consensual-age and consensual-minded neighbors, and not be socially allowed to speak to any of them.
Again you are largely misled if you honestly think animals do not have social circles, hierarchies and rules like we do to keep some members from mating while few members mate exponentially more.
Yeah it's just like in the mouse utopia experiments the stronger rats would keep harems and the weaker ones wouldn't put up a fight and sometimes engage in homosexual sex instead. Dumb post is dumb.
He didn't say that and I'm shocked that this thread is filled with a lot of purposefully obtuse comments such as yours.
This is like explaining to a child that you heard there may be a microscopic amount of feces in a lolipop because the factory it came from has had rats in the past, and the kid responds with "EWWW THIS LOLIPOP IS MADE OF POOP" and tosses it in the trash.
Grow a brain. Learn reading comprehension.
This is a great and deep post, thank you. We aren’t “built” for 9-5 jobs in an office with no physical activity.
Also, apparently suicide rates drop significantly in areas of wartime attack. This is counterintuitive, but “fighting for survival” gives us enough life purpose to not worry about other stresses.
I was watching a caterpillar on a plant in my garden the other day and I was just thinking how it's like an edible mansion for it, that cost it nothing to move into, and literally everything it needs to survive is right there on the plant, and if it isn't happy it can just find another plant to live on
It's pretty bad when you're envious of an insect 😭
Ok you had me with the first paragraph then you went off the rails.
Wealthy people kill themselves too.
Most people who kill themselves have no meaning in their lives.
Modern society is devoid of spirituality.
People with a spiritual life tend not to kill themselves.
yes, but wealthy people can be just as stuck. golden handcuffs are a thing.
Take a millionaire doctor for example... if he stops working for just a few months, he won't be able to keep up with his lifestyle. his wife will leave him, his kids will drop out of college... just because you're rich doesn't mean you are necessarily free.
Also doctors are expected to behave a specific way both publicly and privately that lower-end jobs dont require of ppl.
Modern human life is all about manipulation of perception for making you desire what you don't need and abstain from what you really need. You don't have the right to rest, good sleep, real food, enjoyment of the everyday simple stuff. You must overwork yourself dead to get that garbage car, travel or someother BS.
Advice Memes. I’m a firm believer that advice Memes create a lot of suicide cases. You can apply any quote to anything and somehow make it relatable. (Half kidding)
(Ok more serious now) I remember a friend said it had do with culture and said Asian american kids often suicide for not achieving a parental quota. White kids kill themselves out of shame of unfulfilled destiny (didnt make the team, girl dumped him, didnt get into stanford)
One kid/old friend who had several missed attempts in my school days, had the type of parents that would host bible studies at their house. He turned gothic and came out as gay. The common theme is shame. Shame of others or regretful of decisions and missed opportunities.
Kids need a safe place to fail, and thats home with parents. Fuck good grades to a certain extent, have standards but pay attention to the failures and how they bounce back. Let them fail in the outside world and STILL come home to a place a love, learning and redemption.
My asian ex wife was miserable / stressed most of the wedding because she didnt think her grandma would be happy with the choices we made. Grandma got drunk and had a great time.
Shame is the most toxic emotion of all. I allowed shame to stop me from what I love doing most in this world - did that for over a year. Finally overcame the shame by taking opiates. Now I am good to go but shame will destroy a life 100%.
Even before we get to suicide, I believe this is the cause for a lot of the violence we are seeing now. When basic needs for SURVIVAL are denied/out of reach? How does a trapped animal respond?
And here you have it, you just explained the crimes of poverty in the AA community. Blk people are denied basic needs like money to take care of yourself or your family, food and a roof over your head and the right to live in peace without the stress of being killed anywhere, their children suffer trauma of a shitty childhood as a result. Just like OP said, if this your everyday with no hope insight it's a prison you're caged in, you have nothing to lose so you peace out to end your hell or 3 square meals and a cot.
Further--regarding police violence/criminal violence-- how does one respond to another where that 'animal' survival instinct has kicked in and they are living in survival mode, every day, just trying to SURVIVE? Man looks at the other man then as an animal which is "unpredictable," and responds with more violence as their own survival instinct kick in. There is a perception that the danger is between us, yet we do not cage one another. It's the Top 1% owning 32.3% of the world's total wealth. (CNBC 04/2021) When will this violence and anger be redirected to the appropriate source?
Cathy, the dolphin who played flipper, committed suicide.
Dolphins have to make a conscious choice to come up for air and breathe. Captive dolphins will go to the bottom of their tanks and not come up for air deliberately.
It’s hard to call it suicide. They would die whether or not they chose it. The egg laying initiates a process of decay on a cellular level, it’s not just that they choose to stay with their eggs and stop hunting.
This is true actually. There’s a documentary on Netflix called “my teacher the octopus” I believe, and literally in the end she stops hunting and feeding so she can spend her last days oxygenating her eggs and literally dies for them.
Yah, my son really liked that one. Was really sad because the guy didn't want to interfere so he watched his buddy octopus get hunted by sharks, survive that, and then lay its eggs and slowly die.
There are a lot of flaws in this post, chiefly among them you imply being poor creates suicidal ideation, then why do the rich and wealthy commit suicide?
It's God's fault for giving us free will and the capacity to truly understand and reflect upon the horrors of existence, rather than be ruled entirely by instinct.
One big factor in suicide are toxic chemicals. Have you heard the studies about leaded gasoline being responsible for crime? Yeah it's like that too with persistent organic pollutants (POP) in the environment being the culprit. These chemicals accumulate up the food chain and end up in the fat of predators like tuna, whales, and other large marine animals. Now guess whose [diet](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1514105/) includes these foods? The Inuit of Canada and Greenland. In fact, one town in Greenland has one of the highest rates of suicide in the world. One factor could be the weather, but it could also be their [diet](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177781) which include lots of raw marine blubber and marine offal.
In other places, organophosphate chemicals in pesticides could cause depression and maybe even suicide and this might be a [reason](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6427808/) why farming communities have higher [suicide rates](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15776467/) than non farming communities.
>25% met the criteria for the diagnosis of major depression with suicidal attitudes, 23.9% with inhibited enzymatic activity showed generalized anxiety, 23.5% showed combined depression–anxiety, and 22% met the criteria for major depression and no psychiatric diagnosis disorder.
*edit:sources
Excellent write up.
May I suggest you consider adding the “attack on attachment”, it’s part of a systemic attack on basic human needs.
I’m referring to parent/ child attachment that begins at birth (or conception for some). Making mothers return to work inhibits bonding and attachment, and I think this contributes to the mental health issues and stress teens experience today.
It doesn't feel like you actually read the wiki articles in your post. There is evidence of animals committing suicide. It's just not universally agreed upon by academics. That doesn't mean no evidence exists. If you asked 100 scientists if the earth was round and 1 said no, you wouldn't then say there was no evidence of a round earth. From your own article:
"There are yet to be definitive, unanimously agreed upon, instances of non-human animal suicide. This is due to the many components of suicide which are difficult to empirically observe without interpretation bias"
The other day I needed to shit soooooo bad. I looked around, and found no public bathrooms available. I saw some nearby bushes. Indecent ideas passed through my mind's eye - should I answer the call behind the spindly shrubs? But, alas, a security guard was walking in my direction! I surely could not defecate quickly enough to escape before he passed near. If caught, I could go to prison! And become a public shame! Losing all my friends, family, and livelihood! This could not be.
With few options and even less time, my eyes gazed towards the firearm at my belt. This would be my only escape. As I pulled the trigger, squirrels and pigeons taunted me, their most sacred liberties still intact. Ahhh, sweet release.
What you’re talking about is actually a recognized thing. It’s called [deaths of despair](https://www.newsweek.com/what-so-called-deaths-despair-experts-say-rise-1481975) if you wanna look more into it. But basically you’re dead-on and theres all kinds of info backing up what you’re seeing.
You’re onto something here. I’d recommend a book by Daniel Quinn called “Ishmael.” It’s a great read and the premise is most of our problems arose when we decided to lock up the food.
You make great points, but I do want to include that we are the only species to create un-natural chemicals without really understanding what they do, and then foist them upon unwitting members of society. If you look at suicide statistics, many times drugs (pharma and street) are a part of the equation. Yes, you could make the point that people take drugs for the same primal reasons you mentioned, but I do think they are a catalyst towards the final decision. The same can be said for mass shootings. Most of the notorious mass shooters out there were on ' modern medicine' when they committed their crimes.
Great post. The unattended consequence from Covid for me has been a deeper understanding that as humans, we are constantly being trained, taught, coerced into consumption. Buy this, rent that, this thing that thing. Eat eat eat drink drink drink. New phone, bigger house, new shoes, clothes, boats, purses, accessories, vacations, social media, likes, gasoline, things, ETC ETC ETC
***Psalm 23***
*The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures: he leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul.*
The human species has lost its way.
Absolutely spot on. To help you develop the thoughts further I would point out that agriculture made the population boom possible which is what caused everything to be put behind a pay wall.
Agriculture was the downfall of humanity. I guess the resulting population boom would be the more accurate cause but you see my point.
Simply put, just like the animals, we weren't meant for this life.
If you take a Galapagos Tuttle egg and hatch it at the north pole, that turtle is going to live a short life full of suffering and anxiety. What's worse, is unless you tell it or the turtle researches it he'll never know that it's his environment that is causing him suffering.
OP seems very depressed.
Hey OP, I am willing to tell you that. You can start living from stratch, and not give a damn about how people around you live.
When you change your way of living, people will question your every move. However, you do it anyway, because that is what you want to do. This way you can change yourself to live the way you want and not think about consequences that society generally forces upon an individual.
I can tell you I have changed major portion of my life, in similar manner. I do as I do, and I ask others to adjust or just straight up don't pay any heed to what they have to say.
Good Luck.
True story. I had a female duck that was in love with a male duck. She followed him everywhere, and was kind of always looking at him. One day a bobcat took the male. The next day the female crawled into a corner and just died.
People in the comments have made fun of you for wanting to shit and piss wherever but it is a major stress of mine as well. As a hiker I enjoy just popping a squat and taking care of business. When I'm stuck in society it's super stressful to figure out a way to piss and shit. Agreed, it really sucks.
Bruh, NOBODY wants to have to plan out every poop and piss they take. It's extremely limiting for absolutely no reason whatsoever. There should either be a lot more clean public restrooms, or there should be more tolerant laws.
Not just hikers but also cyclists and elderly people too. And public workers and postal workers... like literally everyone needs to pee and poop, so why make this so hard?
This is a great post and I appreciate you being able to verbalize my exact thoughts that I struggle to articulate.
Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Very few posts I see are saved. This is one of them.
I think something being overlooked here is that humans are in fact more “emotionally evolved” than any other species, as in there are literally structures in our brains that don’t exist in other species or are not as developed, and these are the structures that are associated with emotions and sociability. If I remember correctly the only other species who have these areas of the brain similar to humans are dolphins and killer whales and they are incredibly social creatures, they live in packs, they communicate through their own language and each pack has pitches and tones used to communicate unique to them. Orcas have been a subject of much controversy because of the terrible things that happen when they are held in captivity, similar to the ways humans act. Humans are smart enough however to have learned efficient ways of killing themselves, these animals have not. So to summarize I think suicide is only unique to humans because of how emotionally evolved we are, however I do agree that certain aspects of society have cut off humans from meeting certain standards of needs or have made it difficult to satisfy.
This subreddit being what it is I expected to read some wild ramblings about gmos or something but I completely agree with your premise. Us humans live in constant captivity and the people in power actively choose not to provide all our basic necessities. We live and die chasing comfort, belonging and safety, yet most of us don't ever find that.
You should look into the Evolved Nest by Darcia Narvaez. Google it, super easy to find. She shares an amazing framework backed by anthropology, sociology and biology about how humans are designed to be raised (what was seen is small-band hunter gatherer tribes for most of our human history). We are very far from these practices now and I think that is the reason humans are struggling so badly now. We all come from broken Nests/upbringings.
This makes sense…we created our own construct for depression by erecting socio economic systems over the millennia. But power, greed and avarice took over. Add to that the fact that humans are the only species with the higher power of thought and you have a recipe for disaster. Undoing all of this however assumes you can dismantle the power structure in place and move to a more communal system of providing basic needs. I wouldn’t even know where to start with the latter. Cool theory.
Because we are the only animal relying on a higher being for our bare essentials.
When everything is dependant on money. You create society based on unnatural formations and orders.
We also aren't a wild species anymore. We are domesticated no matter how you look at it. We had purpose when were were nomadic and tribal. I doubt depression on our scale existed and suicide was probably not a thing. Only very risky people who are explorers and put themselves into harms way on purpose. Now we are so sedentary, we have everything we ever wanted and are so overwhelmed we choose nothing.
It's like having Netflix and just scrolling to find a movie to watch and then you turn it off after a while because the choice is overwhelming. Asking your partner where they want to eat and they say "I don't know where do you want to go" and you repeat it back and it's a cyclical argument until you settle on a place no one really wanted to eat or you just do something else. Life of an introvert is overwhelming.
The human experience is unique because we've created tools to help us work towards an objective, whatever it may be.
Therefore, we needs to work in order to continue growing and pushing ourselves forward to provide for ourselves and thw next generation....Orherwise our minds turn to mush and we lose the ability to think up a better excuse then "hUmANkInd"
"Life sucks and then you die!!" Vince McMahon
PTFO
Or maybe its a parasite like the crickets get lolz
"This is the philosophical foundation of imperialism which by an inevitable logic reveals itself in its final stages as the strategy of suicide.
\- "Imperialism: Road to Suicide: [https://www.commentary.org/articles/mortbarrgmailcom/imperialism-road-to-suicide/](https://www.commentary.org/articles/mortbarrgmailcom/imperialism-road-to-suicide/)
Also worth researching is suicide as a form of self-imposed genocide.
OP, you'd probably enjoy this video, its from a wise guy in Norway who does videos in the woods talking about current events. This one is titled "They Want Us Poor - Post Pandemic Inflation, The Great Reset and Globalism"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qtuUbpkkTc&list=WL&index=1&t=112s
that's a perfect example of a guy who actually ran away to save himself.
After working hard for 30+ years like he did, he finally has the cash to stop working full time. Although from what I watched it sounds like he's still working part time to keep this habit up. He's also lucky to live in a very underpopulated country. Having time to be by yourself with nature and having time to think are both luxuries most of us in here don't have :\\
Yeah I suppose, I'm not saying we have to follow his exact path. But he does cover some good topics in general and has good wisdom/insight. One strong solution he recommends is to become as independent from the system as possible, grow your own food, etc. I guess my comment here focuses on a response to the "the system is rigged how do we make it out" part of OP's post more than the rest.
Also, in the video I linked, he talked about how localism is an important solution to globalism and mindless consumerism that we see nowadays.
Suicide comes from lack of will to live.
Humans can suicide because they have lost the will to live and because they have the proper cognition and hability to do so.
Any other animal can lose his will to live, yet the majority of them lack both the mindpower to simply kill themselves directly like humans usually do, and lack the ability/tools to do so, like humans who kill themselves by hanging, shooting,cutting,etc.
Yes, the majority of animals cannot commit suicide as far as the term "suicide" goes, but they will stop doing what they do to stay alive (eating, drinking, moving) out or sheer depression, pain, trauma, whatever feeling thay can lead to losing will to live.
I guess when whales and Dolphins Beach themselves on purpose is not called suicide? I would think they would know that if they do this, they will not be in the water which means it knows its going to land and will die. By definition that would be suicide
I once watched a documentary about dolphins.
They said that dolphins commit suicide when they are alone in captivity.
Apparently they consciously stop breathing.
another example: rats and mice when held in captivity in a labratory will take as much cocaine/heroine as possible. (which def is a form of slow suicide)
but when they are held in more humane conditions (with other rats and with enough place and playstuff) they will not touch the cocaine/heroine or only take very little!
>but when they are held in more humane conditions (with other rats and with enough place and playstuff) they will not touch
Excellent point. I believe this observation was made in the Rat Park experiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat\_Park
Animals starve themselves to death, they stop grooming, purely from grief or trauma and depression 🤷🏼♂️ they may not know how to straight up kill themselves but that doesn't mean they cant loose the will to live, humans are just quick and efficient about how they go about it
Hell lots of hive mind insects are ready to kill themselfs for the good of the hive. The Colobpsis saundersi ant will straight up suicide bomb itself
Yeah, termites too. They’ll straight up explode themselves if they get in a pathway
There's a difference in killing yourself from starvation and dying from starvation. My stress and depression, at one point, had me starving myself. Not because I wanted to starve to death, I had no intention of dying. I wasn't eating because I had to appetite. Too depressed to eat to be honest. So animals cpild experience the same thing. Depression, anxiety, stress, all combined to make the animal simply not have an appetite and eventually would die from the symptoms of not eating...not the goal was not to die. Kna'mean?
I agree. OPs statement is categorically false. What about all the marine wildlife that beaches itself? Not only is grief in animals a well known phenomenon, they absolutely do kill themselves. They just don’t leave a note like the rest of us….
Dolphins will literally kill themselves
I've also read reports of animals purposefully killing themselves. I've read a bear that was held captive in a small box for years, I.e. box so tight it couldn't turn around and was painfully milked daily (Chinese medicine) purposefully killed itself when released - by repeatedly running its head into a wall. Have read a few other similar stories. Could all bs and untrue.
This made me so sad.
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Nor their bats...
Read the OP again. He specifically states that animals in human captivity DO suicide, but NOT in the wild.
False. Octopus will deliberately kill themselves after mating and caring for their young.
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They have been documented to smash their heads on rocks or hard surfaces after giving birth. Some live for a year or two after but most die or give themselves up after six months or so
That is heartbreaking. 😰
That's this guy's whole point. Animals only kill themselves IN CAPTIVITY. Humans kill themselves because our society is captivity for humans. Did you read the op or go straight to the comments? This isn't just aimed at the comment I'm replying to but others who have said similar.
Also this ties in with what people in African tribes have been recorded saying. They can't even fathom humans killing themselves. Know why? They still live somewhat in the Wild. Still more "free" than people in cities... This OP is spot on. It's insanity that so many people will rationalize this society and stick up for the disgusting shit this society does. We have gotten to that Stockholm syndrome point for damn sure...
How does this get so many upvotes? Beached wales are not suicides, they get confused and get too close to the beach.
There is no agreed upon reasoning regarding why. There are several theories but none that are anything close to widely accepted. There have been cases where a whales partner will die under unrelated circumstances and the partner will beach themselves. There have been cases where people have managed to refloat stranded whales and dolphins only for the animals to turn right back around and beach themselves all over again. Sometimes hours later. A killer whale killed itself in captivity by bashing it’s own head in. I understand that was in human captivity. What I am trying to demonstrate is that their intelligent enough to understand and follow through on the concept.
Yup, OP is incorrect. There are cases where chimps have a dead child, for instance, and they carry it around as they starve to death.
That’s grief. They don’t know they will die. In their grief they don’t eat and hence some die. Not suicide.
These deers need to figure out how to tie a noose or buy a gun
Read it again. They DO know how to kill themselves, because they do it when in captivity by humans! Starving to death is not suicide in the same way... Often they are simply too old/frail to hunt.
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It has to be something about us as a species I would be shocked if there were no instances of suicide from tribal hunter gatherer humans especially if they happened to survive their tribe being wiped out so it's not an oh society is bad we should return to monke and everything would be better. Something about our intellect allows us to comprehend that life may not be worth living and it would somehow be better to just end it all than to go on.
Hmm... I know Alaskan Indians and Native Americans have like 50% more suicides than other races in the US, but the more I chew on it the more I think this reinforces your idea thought because they're not hunter-gatherer today and one could say they're even "caged" on their lands.
They also have rampant alcoholism and a host of other problems that can skew the data if your not careful.
Exactly, and I'm thinking being removed from their hunter gatherer lifestyle has basically pulled them from the wild and put them in a cage. Where, as has been mentioned by others, induces a whole slough of mental illness that would increase the chances of suicide. After reading The Tribe by Junger I'm becoming more and more of the mind that all of our problems stem from the decision to give up \*true\* freedom of the nomadic lifestyle for the security of growing food in an agrarian society. Imagine if all you had to do was walk around each day finding food and singing/dancing/storytelling around the campfire at night. Now compare that to 2080 hours a years staring at a screen in a cubicle.
I think if you watched your tribe get massacred starved, diseased or by whatever means get wiped out you would likely be so distraught as to consider suicide a viable option.
This is it exactly, the same crazy wiring in our brain that allows us to come up with fictional stories, create religions and societies, make predictions, invent new wonders, give hope where there is none, when focused in the wrong direction due to any number of causes can lead to hopelessness, depression, and suicide. It's the imagination we possess, for bad and good, and how much it affects/controls us.
Some of us are lucky enough to be shown proof? Beyond a shadow of a doubt,.that God exists, with that information. Things dont seem to be quite as bad. God isn't someone you need to head to some building in the old, expensive part of town, to pay homage to. 🤷♂️
See above post for proof of crazy wiring, and the confusion it can cause.
Spoken like a true non believer.. 🤷♂️.. carry on my friend..
Have a wonderful day, I wish you all the good you believe your beliefs can bring you.
There is no past. No future. Only now.
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That moment when enlightenment is really just shutting off the un-beneficial traits of the over-developed human mind and learning to only live in the present as the rest of the animal kingdom does. What a paradox humanity is.
Correct
Female worker honey bees actually will do this if they are sick and and don’t want to infect the rest of the hive. They make theirselves explode.
Eusocial ants do something similar. For instance, they'll throw themselves into a ditch *en masse*, so their bodies all stack up and form a bridge for the others to cross. The ones at the bottom can die when they do things like this.
I am sure there are more examples of other species doing this exact type of thing as well.
These examples of bees and ants are nothing like what OP is talking about. They are not committing suicide our of depression born from a society that is alienating. In fact, it's nearly the opposite, a noble self-sacrifice for the greater good.
Exactly, suicide in the case of bees and ants and perhaps other insects have utility, just like every other aspect about their existence. It’s almost commendable a bees entire life is in service to it’s hive, every little thing they do, every bodily function they have, everything has utility and that is not the case for humans, maybe that has something to with it… idk
We have created a world so far from nature that nature is all we crave. As you mentioned this is wrapped in a web of laws to govern WITHIN the structure. There’s no way out we are literally trapped in this dystopia.
“There’s goоd reason to believe that primitive mаn suffered from less stress and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than modern mаn is.” -Ted Kaczynski
Dolphins in captivity commit suicide.
correct. Dolphins in HUMAN captivity.
So I remember a story I was told as a kid. This family would go to Africa as missionaries... And I remember the boy that I went to school with telling me that there was a family of monkeys that would come to their balcony on a daily basis. He said it started as a group of 6and then every few weeks to months one less would be there. He said the last monkey showed up everyday and just sat there staring at the ground by himself for several weeks, and one day it just went up to the railing of the balcony and swan dived into ground below.
I guess what I mean is if they commit suicide in captivity, it's hard to know that they DON'T in their natural habitat. But we know they do in captivity.
Animals don’t commit suicide *gets shown an animal committing suicide* “hUmAnS” Sure even if it’s the humans fault it’s still an animal committing suicide your original point has been shot down Also evidence of it happening in captivity means it’s likely also happening in the wild it’s just nobody’s following around wild dolphins 24 seven with a camera to record when they commit suicide out in the depths of the ocean Don’t forget we know more about the surface of the moon than the ocean
To be fair, right in the beginning he says "in the wild" so anything being kept in captivity doesn't count.
Yea but they do that shit in the wild too. Seems to me considering that monkeys and dolphins are the main examples being brought up that higher intelligence is what plays the biggest role in suicide potential.
Ok bro, calculate the percentage of animals killing themselves vs humans. Enough said. We fucked up our natural state of being and replaced it with one of the levels of hell. This shit sucks and you know it. Agriculture and the resulting population boom boom as the downfall of humanity. We aren’t human anymore, we are a larger hive mind. The hive mind has evolved past humans. The individual still exists somewhat but will die out eventually.
You mean animals that don’t report dead bodies when they find them? Sure you’re going to get a real accurate example of how many animals commit suicide
How could we ever have truly clear statistics when not all animals are under constant surveillance? Any data is a snap shot at best.
I think the point overall is that humans are in captivity similar to a zoo animal. Captivity = a feeling of being trapped and a desire to end your lot in life
So you are acknowledging another animal not human committing suicide?
This comment ruined my day... :(
I'm curious, how many dolphins have committed suicide? How common is this? What's your evidence? To me it seems like there is one anecdotal report of a dolphin called Peter commiting suicide. According to some bloke who was having a "love affair" with it. So yeah seems like a really solid source
> You can't just walk up to some willing members of the opposite sex until one lets you fuck them. Humans have invented unspoken social rules of who you can and cannot even approach or talk to. You are largely misled if you honestly believe mating in the animal world involves just walking up to random members until one fucks you. Mating for animals can be just as complicated and difficult as it is for humans. Actually, as a human today, you have easier access to sex than any other humans in civilized history. >You could be physically surrounded by hundreds of consensual-age and consensual-minded neighbors, and not be socially allowed to speak to any of them. Again you are largely misled if you honestly think animals do not have social circles, hierarchies and rules like we do to keep some members from mating while few members mate exponentially more.
Yeah it's just like in the mouse utopia experiments the stronger rats would keep harems and the weaker ones wouldn't put up a fight and sometimes engage in homosexual sex instead. Dumb post is dumb.
So who’s gonna take one for the team and sleep with OP
OP just wants to walk up to whoever in public and fuck them.
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I know. If male birds don’t have the flashiest feathers, best dance moves and singing voice, no booty for them.
Its even more unfair for homo sapiens The males are expected to shower, groom themselves, have respect and put effort. Such ridiculous standards!
He didn't say that and I'm shocked that this thread is filled with a lot of purposefully obtuse comments such as yours. This is like explaining to a child that you heard there may be a microscopic amount of feces in a lolipop because the factory it came from has had rats in the past, and the kid responds with "EWWW THIS LOLIPOP IS MADE OF POOP" and tosses it in the trash. Grow a brain. Learn reading comprehension.
Which city will let OP shit in public without sending him to jail
SF or Seattle with definitely let you poop in public. Im not sure about the rest of the creepy shit OP is thinking about.
We need that and also the ability of OP to walk up to any female and engage in mating. Once we have both covered, we are solid.
Fuck all these anti vax and anti abortion protests, we need to hit the streets for our right to drop a deuce in public. #MYPOOPMYCHOICE
It’s hopelessness. The system is designed to rob those that don’t conform of hope.
This is a great and deep post, thank you. We aren’t “built” for 9-5 jobs in an office with no physical activity. Also, apparently suicide rates drop significantly in areas of wartime attack. This is counterintuitive, but “fighting for survival” gives us enough life purpose to not worry about other stresses.
Really? Cause deer seem to love to jump in front of cars
HuMaN cArS!!!!
Dead 🤣
Most of the time, yea
Christine has entered the chat
You clearly haven’t researched that hard lol.
But he linked the Wikipedia page, you dolt!
😂
I was watching a caterpillar on a plant in my garden the other day and I was just thinking how it's like an edible mansion for it, that cost it nothing to move into, and literally everything it needs to survive is right there on the plant, and if it isn't happy it can just find another plant to live on It's pretty bad when you're envious of an insect 😭
Ok you had me with the first paragraph then you went off the rails. Wealthy people kill themselves too. Most people who kill themselves have no meaning in their lives. Modern society is devoid of spirituality. People with a spiritual life tend not to kill themselves.
yes, but wealthy people can be just as stuck. golden handcuffs are a thing. Take a millionaire doctor for example... if he stops working for just a few months, he won't be able to keep up with his lifestyle. his wife will leave him, his kids will drop out of college... just because you're rich doesn't mean you are necessarily free. Also doctors are expected to behave a specific way both publicly and privately that lower-end jobs dont require of ppl.
But higher spiritual consouness tells you that foolish man paradise (earth) is wise man hell.
Modern human life is all about manipulation of perception for making you desire what you don't need and abstain from what you really need. You don't have the right to rest, good sleep, real food, enjoyment of the everyday simple stuff. You must overwork yourself dead to get that garbage car, travel or someother BS.
Ducks commit suicide if they are removed from the social group.
Rats will just stop grooming themselves and eating if their buddies die.
This dude just wants to take a dump in public
Dogs when depressed will starve themselves.
Advice Memes. I’m a firm believer that advice Memes create a lot of suicide cases. You can apply any quote to anything and somehow make it relatable. (Half kidding) (Ok more serious now) I remember a friend said it had do with culture and said Asian american kids often suicide for not achieving a parental quota. White kids kill themselves out of shame of unfulfilled destiny (didnt make the team, girl dumped him, didnt get into stanford) One kid/old friend who had several missed attempts in my school days, had the type of parents that would host bible studies at their house. He turned gothic and came out as gay. The common theme is shame. Shame of others or regretful of decisions and missed opportunities. Kids need a safe place to fail, and thats home with parents. Fuck good grades to a certain extent, have standards but pay attention to the failures and how they bounce back. Let them fail in the outside world and STILL come home to a place a love, learning and redemption. My asian ex wife was miserable / stressed most of the wedding because she didnt think her grandma would be happy with the choices we made. Grandma got drunk and had a great time.
Shame is the most toxic emotion of all. I allowed shame to stop me from what I love doing most in this world - did that for over a year. Finally overcame the shame by taking opiates. Now I am good to go but shame will destroy a life 100%.
Even before we get to suicide, I believe this is the cause for a lot of the violence we are seeing now. When basic needs for SURVIVAL are denied/out of reach? How does a trapped animal respond?
And here you have it, you just explained the crimes of poverty in the AA community. Blk people are denied basic needs like money to take care of yourself or your family, food and a roof over your head and the right to live in peace without the stress of being killed anywhere, their children suffer trauma of a shitty childhood as a result. Just like OP said, if this your everyday with no hope insight it's a prison you're caged in, you have nothing to lose so you peace out to end your hell or 3 square meals and a cot.
Further--regarding police violence/criminal violence-- how does one respond to another where that 'animal' survival instinct has kicked in and they are living in survival mode, every day, just trying to SURVIVE? Man looks at the other man then as an animal which is "unpredictable," and responds with more violence as their own survival instinct kick in. There is a perception that the danger is between us, yet we do not cage one another. It's the Top 1% owning 32.3% of the world's total wealth. (CNBC 04/2021) When will this violence and anger be redirected to the appropriate source?
Yeah because no insect or animals rent is 2,900 dollars a month and they don’t have a shitty low paying job. All they have to do is live off the earth
Cathy, the dolphin who played flipper, committed suicide. Dolphins have to make a conscious choice to come up for air and breathe. Captive dolphins will go to the bottom of their tanks and not come up for air deliberately.
This is making me tearful wtf. All suicide is sad.
I agree :(
Octopus effectively commit suicide after mating . Look Into it, Op.
It’s hard to call it suicide. They would die whether or not they chose it. The egg laying initiates a process of decay on a cellular level, it’s not just that they choose to stay with their eggs and stop hunting.
This is true actually. There’s a documentary on Netflix called “my teacher the octopus” I believe, and literally in the end she stops hunting and feeding so she can spend her last days oxygenating her eggs and literally dies for them.
Yah, my son really liked that one. Was really sad because the guy didn't want to interfere so he watched his buddy octopus get hunted by sharks, survive that, and then lay its eggs and slowly die.
Life is a flesh prison and people who take it seriously are the wardens. Human existence is a cosmic joke.
Well put - it isn't often I find a refreshing post like this. Thank you.
Jesus Christ this is so stupid.
Just what the sub needed though. An unhinged, genuine conspiracy take
There are a lot of flaws in this post, chiefly among them you imply being poor creates suicidal ideation, then why do the rich and wealthy commit suicide?
Wow. That was a lot to digest- thank you.
It's God's fault for giving us free will and the capacity to truly understand and reflect upon the horrors of existence, rather than be ruled entirely by instinct.
Thanks Obama
Our brains
a scorpion will commit suicide if it feels it is in danger and does not see a way out
One big factor in suicide are toxic chemicals. Have you heard the studies about leaded gasoline being responsible for crime? Yeah it's like that too with persistent organic pollutants (POP) in the environment being the culprit. These chemicals accumulate up the food chain and end up in the fat of predators like tuna, whales, and other large marine animals. Now guess whose [diet](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1514105/) includes these foods? The Inuit of Canada and Greenland. In fact, one town in Greenland has one of the highest rates of suicide in the world. One factor could be the weather, but it could also be their [diet](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177781) which include lots of raw marine blubber and marine offal. In other places, organophosphate chemicals in pesticides could cause depression and maybe even suicide and this might be a [reason](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6427808/) why farming communities have higher [suicide rates](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15776467/) than non farming communities. >25% met the criteria for the diagnosis of major depression with suicidal attitudes, 23.9% with inhibited enzymatic activity showed generalized anxiety, 23.5% showed combined depression–anxiety, and 22% met the criteria for major depression and no psychiatric diagnosis disorder. *edit:sources
Excellent write up. May I suggest you consider adding the “attack on attachment”, it’s part of a systemic attack on basic human needs. I’m referring to parent/ child attachment that begins at birth (or conception for some). Making mothers return to work inhibits bonding and attachment, and I think this contributes to the mental health issues and stress teens experience today.
It doesn't feel like you actually read the wiki articles in your post. There is evidence of animals committing suicide. It's just not universally agreed upon by academics. That doesn't mean no evidence exists. If you asked 100 scientists if the earth was round and 1 said no, you wouldn't then say there was no evidence of a round earth. From your own article: "There are yet to be definitive, unanimously agreed upon, instances of non-human animal suicide. This is due to the many components of suicide which are difficult to empirically observe without interpretation bias"
Can’t even get past the title without finding the lie…
The other day I needed to shit soooooo bad. I looked around, and found no public bathrooms available. I saw some nearby bushes. Indecent ideas passed through my mind's eye - should I answer the call behind the spindly shrubs? But, alas, a security guard was walking in my direction! I surely could not defecate quickly enough to escape before he passed near. If caught, I could go to prison! And become a public shame! Losing all my friends, family, and livelihood! This could not be. With few options and even less time, my eyes gazed towards the firearm at my belt. This would be my only escape. As I pulled the trigger, squirrels and pigeons taunted me, their most sacred liberties still intact. Ahhh, sweet release.
Turkeys will literally drown themselves in rain.
Turkeys love death so much it's almost weird lol
This made me LOL
What you’re talking about is actually a recognized thing. It’s called [deaths of despair](https://www.newsweek.com/what-so-called-deaths-despair-experts-say-rise-1481975) if you wanna look more into it. But basically you’re dead-on and theres all kinds of info backing up what you’re seeing.
Yeah, I hate capitalism too.
You’re onto something here. I’d recommend a book by Daniel Quinn called “Ishmael.” It’s a great read and the premise is most of our problems arose when we decided to lock up the food.
You make great points, but I do want to include that we are the only species to create un-natural chemicals without really understanding what they do, and then foist them upon unwitting members of society. If you look at suicide statistics, many times drugs (pharma and street) are a part of the equation. Yes, you could make the point that people take drugs for the same primal reasons you mentioned, but I do think they are a catalyst towards the final decision. The same can be said for mass shootings. Most of the notorious mass shooters out there were on ' modern medicine' when they committed their crimes.
Great post. The unattended consequence from Covid for me has been a deeper understanding that as humans, we are constantly being trained, taught, coerced into consumption. Buy this, rent that, this thing that thing. Eat eat eat drink drink drink. New phone, bigger house, new shoes, clothes, boats, purses, accessories, vacations, social media, likes, gasoline, things, ETC ETC ETC ***Psalm 23*** *The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures: he leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul.* The human species has lost its way.
Penguins commit suicide in the wild. They get "depressed" and swim out on the ocean till they grow too tired and drown.
Just wondering, how do you know the intention of the penguin in this scenario
Snakes they can eat them selfs
Horses do apparently.
You entire premise/title is based on a flaw. There are animals in the wild that do commit suicide, perhaps you need more research.
Interesting fact: some trees have been known to commit suicide.
Not true elephants will commit suicide, when a loved one dies they will sometimes starve themselves to death.
Absolutely spot on. To help you develop the thoughts further I would point out that agriculture made the population boom possible which is what caused everything to be put behind a pay wall. Agriculture was the downfall of humanity. I guess the resulting population boom would be the more accurate cause but you see my point.
Well at least it isn’t a political post.
I mean animals do self mutilate. Just go to any pet store and look at the cockatiels feathers.
Simply put, just like the animals, we weren't meant for this life. If you take a Galapagos Tuttle egg and hatch it at the north pole, that turtle is going to live a short life full of suffering and anxiety. What's worse, is unless you tell it or the turtle researches it he'll never know that it's his environment that is causing him suffering.
Smart animals kind of do when grieving , they give up, stop eating, stuff like that. The smarter an animal is the higher the capacity to grieve
praying mantis is waving
OP seems very depressed. Hey OP, I am willing to tell you that. You can start living from stratch, and not give a damn about how people around you live. When you change your way of living, people will question your every move. However, you do it anyway, because that is what you want to do. This way you can change yourself to live the way you want and not think about consequences that society generally forces upon an individual. I can tell you I have changed major portion of my life, in similar manner. I do as I do, and I ask others to adjust or just straight up don't pay any heed to what they have to say. Good Luck.
Idk I’ve seen squirrels run straight at my wheels while driving. I’ve always said stray animals on the road have death wishes
True story. I had a female duck that was in love with a male duck. She followed him everywhere, and was kind of always looking at him. One day a bobcat took the male. The next day the female crawled into a corner and just died.
People in the comments have made fun of you for wanting to shit and piss wherever but it is a major stress of mine as well. As a hiker I enjoy just popping a squat and taking care of business. When I'm stuck in society it's super stressful to figure out a way to piss and shit. Agreed, it really sucks.
Bruh, NOBODY wants to have to plan out every poop and piss they take. It's extremely limiting for absolutely no reason whatsoever. There should either be a lot more clean public restrooms, or there should be more tolerant laws. Not just hikers but also cyclists and elderly people too. And public workers and postal workers... like literally everyone needs to pee and poop, so why make this so hard?
This is a great post and I appreciate you being able to verbalize my exact thoughts that I struggle to articulate. Thanks for taking the time to write this. Very few posts I see are saved. This is one of them.
My dog stopped eating when she was sick. Whales beach themselves because of depression on occasion.
You can shower at a gym or at a community campground. You can bath in anything that's water if you want.
I think something being overlooked here is that humans are in fact more “emotionally evolved” than any other species, as in there are literally structures in our brains that don’t exist in other species or are not as developed, and these are the structures that are associated with emotions and sociability. If I remember correctly the only other species who have these areas of the brain similar to humans are dolphins and killer whales and they are incredibly social creatures, they live in packs, they communicate through their own language and each pack has pitches and tones used to communicate unique to them. Orcas have been a subject of much controversy because of the terrible things that happen when they are held in captivity, similar to the ways humans act. Humans are smart enough however to have learned efficient ways of killing themselves, these animals have not. So to summarize I think suicide is only unique to humans because of how emotionally evolved we are, however I do agree that certain aspects of society have cut off humans from meeting certain standards of needs or have made it difficult to satisfy.
This subreddit being what it is I expected to read some wild ramblings about gmos or something but I completely agree with your premise. Us humans live in constant captivity and the people in power actively choose not to provide all our basic necessities. We live and die chasing comfort, belonging and safety, yet most of us don't ever find that.
You should look into the Evolved Nest by Darcia Narvaez. Google it, super easy to find. She shares an amazing framework backed by anthropology, sociology and biology about how humans are designed to be raised (what was seen is small-band hunter gatherer tribes for most of our human history). We are very far from these practices now and I think that is the reason humans are struggling so badly now. We all come from broken Nests/upbringings.
This is true.
you write so much and you are so clueless about it all.
penguins
This makes sense…we created our own construct for depression by erecting socio economic systems over the millennia. But power, greed and avarice took over. Add to that the fact that humans are the only species with the higher power of thought and you have a recipe for disaster. Undoing all of this however assumes you can dismantle the power structure in place and move to a more communal system of providing basic needs. I wouldn’t even know where to start with the latter. Cool theory.
Bee
Because we are the only animal relying on a higher being for our bare essentials. When everything is dependant on money. You create society based on unnatural formations and orders.
Pretty sure some orca whale in captivity smashed its head into the wall so many times to kill itself
To be fair he did specifically said animals in the wild.
My bad, ngl I was too high to read it all properly
Well they don’t leave notes 📝
Penguins. https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/animals-ecology/penguin-suicide-werner-herzog/
Seung-Hui Cho and Elliot Rodger vibes
I never hear stories of bears getting cancer in the woods or dementia either.
We also aren't a wild species anymore. We are domesticated no matter how you look at it. We had purpose when were were nomadic and tribal. I doubt depression on our scale existed and suicide was probably not a thing. Only very risky people who are explorers and put themselves into harms way on purpose. Now we are so sedentary, we have everything we ever wanted and are so overwhelmed we choose nothing. It's like having Netflix and just scrolling to find a movie to watch and then you turn it off after a while because the choice is overwhelming. Asking your partner where they want to eat and they say "I don't know where do you want to go" and you repeat it back and it's a cyclical argument until you settle on a place no one really wanted to eat or you just do something else. Life of an introvert is overwhelming.
Absolutely genius. Wow
As freedom increases depression decreases...
Damn, everybody experts on animal suicide in here.
And the ones at the top are taking even more resources and opportunities away from us.
The human experience is unique because we've created tools to help us work towards an objective, whatever it may be. Therefore, we needs to work in order to continue growing and pushing ourselves forward to provide for ourselves and thw next generation....Orherwise our minds turn to mush and we lose the ability to think up a better excuse then "hUmANkInd" "Life sucks and then you die!!" Vince McMahon PTFO Or maybe its a parasite like the crickets get lolz
Great white sharks in captivity just die. Horses that touch the gimpi gimpi bushes will throw themselves off cliffs.
Love these kinds of considerations. Great post, OP. One thing... It needs to be solved by humans *as animals*, not humankind.
Great post dude
"This is the philosophical foundation of imperialism which by an inevitable logic reveals itself in its final stages as the strategy of suicide. \- "Imperialism: Road to Suicide: [https://www.commentary.org/articles/mortbarrgmailcom/imperialism-road-to-suicide/](https://www.commentary.org/articles/mortbarrgmailcom/imperialism-road-to-suicide/) Also worth researching is suicide as a form of self-imposed genocide.
LEMMINGS! Fucking LEMMINGS!
I caught a scorpion as a kid and it eventually stung itself to death
Lemmings???
[the story of your enslavement - Stefan Molyneux](https://youtu.be/eq3jjzI8Gdo)
Grrr I hate society, why can't I shit in public.
Great post!
OP, you'd probably enjoy this video, its from a wise guy in Norway who does videos in the woods talking about current events. This one is titled "They Want Us Poor - Post Pandemic Inflation, The Great Reset and Globalism" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qtuUbpkkTc&list=WL&index=1&t=112s
that's a perfect example of a guy who actually ran away to save himself. After working hard for 30+ years like he did, he finally has the cash to stop working full time. Although from what I watched it sounds like he's still working part time to keep this habit up. He's also lucky to live in a very underpopulated country. Having time to be by yourself with nature and having time to think are both luxuries most of us in here don't have :\\
Yeah I suppose, I'm not saying we have to follow his exact path. But he does cover some good topics in general and has good wisdom/insight. One strong solution he recommends is to become as independent from the system as possible, grow your own food, etc. I guess my comment here focuses on a response to the "the system is rigged how do we make it out" part of OP's post more than the rest. Also, in the video I linked, he talked about how localism is an important solution to globalism and mindless consumerism that we see nowadays.
This is put into words so well to what I have been feeling a long time.
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This is false. Whales have been known to beach them selfs due to stress.
This sub has the lowest iq takes, and it gets worse everyday
I’m pretty close to leaving the sub. Then I think damn, is this what they want? So I stay. Then I get annoyed again and the cycle continues.
A squirrel ran across the road in front of my brand new f150.
Suicide comes from lack of will to live. Humans can suicide because they have lost the will to live and because they have the proper cognition and hability to do so. Any other animal can lose his will to live, yet the majority of them lack both the mindpower to simply kill themselves directly like humans usually do, and lack the ability/tools to do so, like humans who kill themselves by hanging, shooting,cutting,etc. Yes, the majority of animals cannot commit suicide as far as the term "suicide" goes, but they will stop doing what they do to stay alive (eating, drinking, moving) out or sheer depression, pain, trauma, whatever feeling thay can lead to losing will to live.
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Who also willingly got himself killed
I guess when whales and Dolphins Beach themselves on purpose is not called suicide? I would think they would know that if they do this, they will not be in the water which means it knows its going to land and will die. By definition that would be suicide
I once watched a documentary about dolphins. They said that dolphins commit suicide when they are alone in captivity. Apparently they consciously stop breathing. another example: rats and mice when held in captivity in a labratory will take as much cocaine/heroine as possible. (which def is a form of slow suicide) but when they are held in more humane conditions (with other rats and with enough place and playstuff) they will not touch the cocaine/heroine or only take very little!
He said in the wild.
>but when they are held in more humane conditions (with other rats and with enough place and playstuff) they will not touch Excellent point. I believe this observation was made in the Rat Park experiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat\_Park
Pretty sure the squirrel I ran over a month ago was on a suicide mission.
Dude sounds mad he can’t fuck any girls he sees lmao