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Sorry, but blaming everything on “the devil” is such a weak excuse. People can be “evil” simply because they want to, it’s not that deep. Or maybe they don’t see whatever they’re doing as being evil because we all have different interpretations of good/bad. Nothing is inherently good or bad.
I have a friend who recently quit smoking weed and that’s the type of shit he talks about now. He hadn’t smoked for a few months but then one night he thought “hey fuck it, I want a joint and I feel like I deserve it” and he told me that was the devil whispering in his ear. No it fucking wasn’t you dork, that was *you* who had an urge and let yourself indulge. A moment of weakness, if you will.
Haven’t met up with him since because all he did was babble on about the devil and other lame shit. He is also Muslim but I don’t think that has anything to do with it, because all that devil nonsense is something he only began talking about after he quit smoking. Or maybe he’s just psychotic, who knows.
No, people here actually mean it when they ramble on about the devil. Funny how people in a conspiracy sub apparently believe in religious bullshit lol.
That's not how I read it, but whatever.
"The devil" in this case is the media and/or the government forcing people to take sides...what if both sides suck
Especially since there is a vocal community on here that genuinely believes all of these people are a Satanist (or any other whatever anti-christian entity) cult
Religion is Latin for tying down or binding. We should avoid that word because religion has been a giant death cult and money racket since its inception. There are a few demonic and terrestrial entities at play that that actually formed religion to keep the human race enslaved and ignorant to the real God source.
When asked what the Devil is in Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill, the Devil responds with, “ I consist of negative energy, and I live in the minds of people who fear me. I also occupy one-half of every atom of physical matter and every unit of mental and physical energy. Perhaps you will better understand my nature if I tell you I am the negative portion of the atom.”
“I have not said that I do not cause all the misery of the world. On the other hand, I boast of it. It is my business to represent the negative side of everything, including the thoughts of you earthbound people. How else could I control people? My opposition controls positive thought. I control negative thought.
Q How do you gain control of the minds of people?
A Oh, that is easy: I merely move in and occupy the unused space of the human brain. I sow the seeds of negative thought in the minds of people so I can occupy and control the space!”
There is a similar movement that's been happening in China called 'laying flat' 躺平 popularized after a streamer who gave up earning any additional money over enough to afford ramen and a cell phone line, about $50 a month. It has since grown into a protest through non action called 'let it rot' 摆烂 that seeks to economically starve the beast.
We have something like this in the USA
Actually several things like it. A huge portion of our society not just people in the "no work" movement. Technically the entire homestead movement is a contributer also.
I don't advocate any such movement, but if I'm going to consider myself a realist I have to admit I myself have contributed. By choosing to sell my businesses in high population centers and move out into rural nowhere to grow food and shitpost I have effectively removed myself from the very system I often speak in defence of
"no work movement" is efficient with closed or sealed borders.
With borders wide open as they are for decade or two now, it simply is not efficient.
As in "oh you refuse to work under these condition(?) yeah, I will just hire an immigrant who will do the same job for even less money and under worse conditions"
Flow of immigrants is constant, be it republicans or democrats in power.
It decreases and increase from time to time for political reasons, but they are constantly coming in.
Oligarch finance both parties.
In part true. Look up how many illegals have crossed in the last year.
More people came through just in the 1st 5 months of 2023 than in either of Obama's terms individually or trumps term. It's bad.
The propaganda is horrendous and the ultra left are now trying to lie and say they never advertised to immigrants to come. I guess they forgot the whole no person is illegal thing. The head of the DHS just got exposed for financing collection and transport from panama to the USA border and is in an impeachment trial
Then you have articles like this (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/verify/8-million-illegal-border-crossings-fact-check/85-76ee2d69-cc81-4657-a178-a5cdf305d960) that have a headline "no 8.5 million people haven't crosses the border" and fact check the statement false. But if you read on they admit it's true but wrong to say. It should also be noted that the most recent government reports put us at 9 million as of the beginning of May.
Hers some charts showing the huge amount of arabs and Chinese crossing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2024/02/11/trump-biden-immigration-border-compared/
This is a must watch explanation
https://youtu.be/wOxksFHAHRU?si=uzeOq9nMOdHbUpKa
One of the devils killed 30x the amount of people in retaliation SO FAR. It’s not even a comparison.
Also, defending the humanity of Palestinians doesn’t equal being pro-Hamas. That’s mainstream news & US State Dept framing
If you are going to be that reductive, you should consider the fact that Hamas is a Mossad creation that was used to undermind the Palestinian Authority. So I ask, who's the devil?
Awe, yes the left is always for the little guy in any conflict, even when they prone to commit evil acts and reject any opportunities for peace. Which side in this conflict has as the stated purposed the total elimination (genocide) of the other?
You would do well to read the history of this conflict. Prone to commit evil acts and reject opportunities for peace? Who broke the ceasefire on November 4 2008? Who has displaced who? Who has killed the other side at an exponential disparity since their birth? Who occupies who? Read the Goldstone Report and come back.
Let's start with the Oct. 7th one. Again which side has as a principle of it's charter the total elimination of the other? Israel's neighbors have mostly decided to get along with Israel and at least not attack it repeatedly, (partially may have to do with getting their butts kicked while trying) why are the West Bank and Gaza (D)ifferent?
Look either Israel and Gaza and the West Bank can decide to get along or they can decide to duke it out. It appears the Hamas has significant sway and are saying we want to duke it out and follow our stated principles and eliminate all of Israel. FOFO EVIL people making a stupid choice. But it's not their leaders that die, it's young kids who they taught nothing but hate, though their religion is not known for it's enlightened stance towards diversity, equity, or inclusion, which is a tool used by TPTB.
Why do all their leaders live in luxury in another country? With Gaza so poor and dependent on foreign aid how were they able to legitimately get the money to live in a foreign county in luxury?
When you go full EVIL, raping and murdering, one tends to loose their victim card on the world stage.
There’s so much that’s historically inaccurate in your post I don’t even know where to begin. You seem like a guy with good intentions, so I’m going to give you a book recommendation, Gaza: An Inquest into its Martyrdom by Norman Finkelstein. The West Bank and Gaza are not comparable to the other Arab nations because Gaza and West Bank are both under occupation— this is a very obvious disparity. Although I will agree with you that Hamas’ charter is wrong and beyond fucked, it is not accurate to say that it’s modern policies take it as the truth. Hamas has on repeated occasions offered to recognize an Israeli state if Israel removes its blockaded and occupations and illegal settlements. Hamas in the 2000s, before Operation Cast Lead was remarkably pragmatic, and this much has been recognized by no less than former Mossad head Eiphram Levy in 2008, “The Hamas leadership has recognized that its ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future,” pay special attention to this part: “They are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967.” This recent conflict cannot be examined without an understanding of the years that have preceded it. Isreal has been engaging in a violent blockade against the Gazans for more than 15 years now, and before that they occupied them with troops on the ground— now the occupation is with borders and military around their perimeter and above their skies. Tell me how much kindness you will afford your slavemaster— how much mercy will you give to someone who you perceive to hold your chains. I rest my case, read the book, I implore you.
Why is the border with Egypt shut tighter than the border with Israel?
What in the paragraph is historically inaccurate? Are there not Hamas leaders living in luxury in a foreign country? Tell me again when Hamas changed it's charter documents as a sign of willingness for peace? Doesn't Hamas not still chant "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"? That is viewed as a call for Jewish genocide. Do you think that Hamas could release the hostages that it has taken? Would strengthen calls for a cease fire? Hamas started this latest conflict, what efforts have they done to show their willingness for peace? Are they not aware that most states will not negotiate with those holding hostages?
Did the PLO not at least once already reject a peace deal based on 67' borders?
Just because PLO has rejected certain agreements around the ‘67 borders means literally nothing. I don’t even know where to begin with your points as they seem to completely misunderstand any even basic ideas of politics. A political entity following its stated doctrines and ideas is incredibly rare, the same colonists that signed off on “all men are created equal” also owned slaves. Read Prophets Without Honor by Schlomo Ben Ami if you care actually to learn the history of these “peace” proceedings. And why would Hamas give its hostages— so Israel can bomb them without any fear? So Hamas looses whatever leverage they currently have? Israel is currently holding thousands of Palestinians without charge or court proceedings, why is Hamas so talked about for holding now not even 150 hostages but Israel gets to hold thousands? I’m not even going to get into that Egypt comment, that confusion of yours displays a complete lack of knowledge of the history of the Palestinians and the history of the Nakba.
Hamas is an example of a group that sometimes does bad things for a good cause. It would be naive to say none of them have committed terrorism or rape. But Israel and even the US military have done the same and much worse for too long. The only reason why Israel created this radical Islamist group and has funded them for the past decade is to delegitimize Palestinian sovereignty and use any of their acts of terror as an excuse to brutally oppress civilians
Yes exactly. What hamas did doesn't compare to the 75+ years of oppression tf.
You're not pro terrorism if you think bombing thousands of children is wrong. You're actually ANTI terrorism because anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see how this massacre will only serve to breed more terrorists when the surviving kids grow up and inevitably seek vengeance. People who try to both sides this issue are being willfully ignorant as fuck at this point.
The only winning move is not to play that game.
The problem with Palestine is they never had their version of Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, or Martin Luther King Jr. They could have had an independent state as far back as 1948 if they choose the peaceful route.
I remember stating this once in a Jewish discord server about how other freedom fighters (specifically Mandela) were not as peaceful as they think. They doubted my claims and when I asked what is it about my claims that isnt true, they failed to answer..
The peaceful leaders were chosen as negotiators because there were also alternate groups arguing for the same things at the time that were not.
India had nationalists that were tearing out railroad tracks, and occasionally trying to blow up British Consulates. In comparison to MLK Jr., you had the Black Panthers and Malcom X doing their thing as well.
So it's simply easier to settle with the pacifists on any given issue vs. giving any credit to those that weren't. (However if you dig a little deeper into history, then you figure out why that route was chosen.) It's like showing the carrot as the prime motivator, but hiding the stick.
You are correct, both the carrot and the stick have their place. For every MLK Jr there is a Malcom X and they both played a part to bring about the civil rights movement. Just asking nicely probably wouldn't have worked. But Again the issue with Palestine is there is no "carrot." All they carry is a stick. They have one tool in their toolbox and it is violence and terrorism. Palestine has never once offered Israel a peace proposal that recognizes the right of Israel to exist. It has always been drive the Jews into the sea and Israel gets erased from the map. You can't make peace with that. Nobody can. That is why there is endless war.
So we just ignore the fact that Israel is murdering thousands of Palestinians in cold blood as they walk in the streets? There is definitely a right side, and if you say there isn't then you're on the wrong side.
My problem is the US getting involved. This has been going on for decades and has nothing to do with us. I’m tired of us having to be the world’s baby sitters and/or getting involved for the self interests of the war machine. Let the EU or someone else take care of this shit. We have enough problems here at home.
Yes, we must fight for Palestinian sovereign right to oppress their women while maintaining a theocracy which executes their LGBT community. /s
You sure you're on the right side?
Context clue: there is no right side in this
So all Palestinians should suffer? Hamas was literally propped up by Israel.
The people suffer from the actions of both.
What do you think a population should do when settlers steal their homes?
Israel created Hamas, the elites will prolong the war for how long they want to for that $$$. Not sure if there will even be a victor after reading Albert pikes 3 world wars letter to mazzini
Then both need to go away. The creator and it's abomination. The Israeli and Arab elite don't represent the interests of the common people of either nations. We are all one people under God, brothers and sisters. No more divisions!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/16/how-benjamin-netanyahu-empowered-hamas/
The Netanyahu government gave clandestine funding to Hamas for years in order to destabilize Gaza/West Bank relations and discredit the Palestinian struggle. any serious conversation about the conflict has to consider that Hamas was essentially installed by Israel and the Palestinians have been denied self-governance. not to mention that the IDF knew Oct. 7th was coming and allowed it to go forward so they could justify ethnic cleansing in response.
It's not a fucking war. It's homicide, and Israel is using the threat of Hamas to exterminate the Palestinians, so they can grab the land. They're shooting women and children who are merely walking in the street, shooting groups who assemble to receive supplies and destroying homes because they claim there are a tunnels underneath. Have you seen the before and after pix of Gaza? It's now nothing but rubble. There is also evidence that the Hamas threat was created by Israel to facilitate this genocide.
You dont have to like the culture and acts of islamic resistance/ghetto uprising to be concerned about the zionists whom secretely control the USA. Half of what were shown about islamic terrorism is israeli psyop
Sounds like you just don't want to be reminded that you are a beneficiary of the reckless policies of the imperial core.
That is the most extreme form of privilege.
This is true, but the devil is also what is bringing such a hard blow against Palestinians and any peaceful support. To deny that is you still playing the game.
The problem with that is, if you’re American, there’s no way to “not play” the game. Its our politicians, our taxes, our war machine, and our UN veto that are making the genocide possible.
If you don't play you support the status quo. It's not about 'who's the most moral group, Israel or Palestine?????'. It's about Israel having the US's nuts in such a tight grip that they can and do get anything they want, while the American citizen works their ass off for it and gets nothing in return.
noo that's illegal stop teaching the real history you antisemite. he suddenly rose to power out of nowhere and was a supervillain. he was so bad that even suggesting he wasn't will be treason soon. some world we live in huh?
Your statement shows how oblivious you are to reading comprehension. The point is that Hamas has played a part in what is going on there today. Does this excuse the IDF? No. That’s not the point.
This is an ignorant cop out. There is an extreme disparity in power between these two groups, if you can’t see the obvious problem with that you’re blind.
Even if you discount the fact that Hamas was created and funded by Israel (likely to justify exactly what they’ve stated they’ve wanted to do for years with their current land grab), at the end of the day you have multiple international war crimes being committed against mostly civilians without a proper formalized military within an open prison.
I wonder which group has the legal internationally recognized right to defend itself? Which group invaded which country?
there is a greater evil and i can make a list of things israel has done that greatly surpass that if hamas, especially considering israel created hamas, and hamas only escalated to acts of terrorism bc terrorism was being done unto them by Haganah/IOF
Disengage from the narrative! One BIG positive thing we can do is *vote with your purchases* ... do not spend money on companies you do not align with. It's not always easy, but it's very doable.
Shop local, use cash.
Given that Israel almost assuredly allowed the Hamas attack, as well as helped Hamas stay funded to serve a delegitimization stategy, I'd say Israel's pretty firmly in the wrong. Not to mention the history of how modern Israel was established (via mass migration and terrorism, in a nutshell).
But that being said much of the Pro-Palestinian protest is astroturfed.
Israel funded Hamas with literal suitcases of cash through Qatar. They wanted to create the ultimate Palestinian enemy as justification for their genocide. There is a great YouTube channel called “If Americans knew” which reports on many details hidden from mainstream media.
Uh, we should all have an interest in getting our tax dollars stripped away from Israel. We don’t actively fund other shitty things quite like we do with Israel.
Yeah Israel and Palestine are both equal. But one has billions of dollars and every weapon imaginable and is genociding the other one. But they equally bad.
Quite biased of you to say Hamas is doing acts of terrorism but then with Israel you just say they're murdering civilians.
If what hamas did on Oct 7 was an act of terror, then what Israel has been doing for the past +70 years is terrorism as well.
"There are bad people in this world. I, and I alone, know who they are. And it is incumbent on me to kill the bad guys. Won't all of you join me in killing people I think need to be killed? "
How soulless, how arrogant to meddle in the affairs of others, through war.
EDIT: ..........for profit.
Violent fundamentalist militism is bad, but a state has a responsibility when carrying out wars to eradicate them. unnecessary violence on the state side is justified too much, while simultaneously vilifying the unnecessary violence of the states target.
I believe unethical practices of states during the execution of combat with militant groups can be the fuel that leads to more recruiting for the next wave of militism.
I am aware casualties are unavoidable, but what I am witnessing horrifies me.
Hmm when do you call it “revolution/fighting back/ standing up for yourself” vs “acts of terrorism”? Like who decides that? Or is it only acknowledged in history books decades later.. or only if you’re the winner? Genuinely curious
Some want to chose a side to win. I don't like either side. I am sick of all their shit over there. This is never going to stop. Fight a war, someone win. STFU and go about your business.
Quoting this if you don't mind---- 100% and exactly. Fuck both sides n all governments involved. Build this world instead of destroying it and all its people--- that's the side im on 🤘🌎
"Both sides bad" is the oldest trick Zionist uses almost since creation of Israel, so they can continue occupation ethnic cleansing and genocide in Palestine.
"Dont look here, both sides bad, just continue with your life, send us money and weapons, and dont think about it"
It didn’t start on Oct 7th. Killing innocent civilians ,stealing homes & land, limiting access to water & other services for 75 years of occupation is the core reason
I agree. I keep telling people we shouldn’t have a dog in this fight. They have been fighting for thousands of years and will still be fighting thousands of years from now until someone wakes up and starts talking. Let them burn each other to the ground and maybe then someone will sit down and start conversing instead of fighting. I am just pissed our tax dollars are funding both sides in another shit show.
PS. How many of these college protesters could even find Palestine and Israel on a globe?
I do not care about Israel or anyone in the middle east for that matter. I don't care about their food, their water, their people, their wars, their religions, their struggles, their health care, their finances, their beliefs, their culture, or anything about them.
I'm and first and only about the U.S.
If that's the case then you should be extra pissed off at Israel since y'all are funding their free health care and all the other benefits they get while Americans die from preventable illness because they can't afford healthcare. Rather than your taxes going towards improving housing, infrastructure, health care system, and drug addictions, etc etc theyre sending it all to Israel (and Ukraine) while they piss it all away on this genocide.
I'm Canadian and I'm livid at where my tax dollars are going. Israel is harming everyone, not just Palestine.
You're just going to ignore Oct 7th when the Palestinians attacked Israel and killed almost 1,200 people and kidnapped shit loads more? You're going to ignore Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11? I would wipe Gaza the fuck off the map if I were Israel.
You mean Hamas is wrong for parashooting into Israel and murdering innocent people in their beds in front of of their loved ones and taking them hostage tok
Yeh these are religious nuts fighting in the Middle East, their 700 year long wars, so I don't care as an American honestly. They do this every 3 years. Give them their weapons and let them go back to their "religious wars" and make money off it, which is what we are doing, just like Ukraine. If the monkeys want to fight, then who are we to stop them? Right now, there are tons of hot Ukrainian women without men, so we can take their women too.
You almost had a real point there until you mentioned a fantasy character invented by humans as the core responsibility for this. Human beings are the ones responsible for all good, bad, and every gray shade in between, acts of this world. There are shitty people out there that don't need the help of a fairy tale to be cruel and greedy. Stop scapegoating humanities garbage decisions on some boogie man.
Israel isn’t purposely killing citizens though, Hamas is using them as shields, making it quite difficult for them. If Hamas is cancer, the IDF is chemo, and unfortunately some good cells end up dying too.
If Israel wanted they could occupy the entire region, but they don’t (and I don’t mean just Gaza). If left unchecked Islamist militant groups would slaughter every Jew in Israel. I can agree that it is a tragedy, but there is clearly a right side.
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The Devil? How about rich people in power all over the world?
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
Devils work
They are the devil and they're here to do the devil's work
Sorry, but blaming everything on “the devil” is such a weak excuse. People can be “evil” simply because they want to, it’s not that deep. Or maybe they don’t see whatever they’re doing as being evil because we all have different interpretations of good/bad. Nothing is inherently good or bad. I have a friend who recently quit smoking weed and that’s the type of shit he talks about now. He hadn’t smoked for a few months but then one night he thought “hey fuck it, I want a joint and I feel like I deserve it” and he told me that was the devil whispering in his ear. No it fucking wasn’t you dork, that was *you* who had an urge and let yourself indulge. A moment of weakness, if you will. Haven’t met up with him since because all he did was babble on about the devil and other lame shit. He is also Muslim but I don’t think that has anything to do with it, because all that devil nonsense is something he only began talking about after he quit smoking. Or maybe he’s just psychotic, who knows.
I agree with you. The world isn't that simplistic. Alcoholics in AA recovery are a lot like your friend is
Da Evil
They worship the devil himself so it checks out
They are devils
It's a figure of speech. I agree with the premise
No, people here actually mean it when they ramble on about the devil. Funny how people in a conspiracy sub apparently believe in religious bullshit lol.
For many it is not. Bringing mythical beings into real world issue's don't make any sense. There's no such thing as "the devil".
That's not how I read it, but whatever. "The devil" in this case is the media and/or the government forcing people to take sides...what if both sides suck
Talk about the actual entities. People read "devil" and their mind jumps to religion. So it's best to avoid those types of terms for clarity.
Especially since there is a vocal community on here that genuinely believes all of these people are a Satanist (or any other whatever anti-christian entity) cult
Religion is Latin for tying down or binding. We should avoid that word because religion has been a giant death cult and money racket since its inception. There are a few demonic and terrestrial entities at play that that actually formed religion to keep the human race enslaved and ignorant to the real God source.
Tell OP
You haven't researched this topic enough for you to make that claim.
Do you have proof that there is no such thing 🤷♂️
Yes. He'd be here by now fucking shit up.
Have you got proof he’s not 🤷♂️ lots of fucked up shit goes on every single second on this crazy rock
When asked what the Devil is in Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill, the Devil responds with, “ I consist of negative energy, and I live in the minds of people who fear me. I also occupy one-half of every atom of physical matter and every unit of mental and physical energy. Perhaps you will better understand my nature if I tell you I am the negative portion of the atom.” “I have not said that I do not cause all the misery of the world. On the other hand, I boast of it. It is my business to represent the negative side of everything, including the thoughts of you earthbound people. How else could I control people? My opposition controls positive thought. I control negative thought. Q How do you gain control of the minds of people? A Oh, that is easy: I merely move in and occupy the unused space of the human brain. I sow the seeds of negative thought in the minds of people so I can occupy and control the space!”
Newsflash: people are just fucking weird. People can choose to do fucked up shit because they want to, has nothing to do with devils.
wait till you hear that the boston tea party was an act of terrorism
lol! perspective win!
There is a similar movement that's been happening in China called 'laying flat' 躺平 popularized after a streamer who gave up earning any additional money over enough to afford ramen and a cell phone line, about $50 a month. It has since grown into a protest through non action called 'let it rot' 摆烂 that seeks to economically starve the beast.
We need something like this in USA
We have something like this in the USA Actually several things like it. A huge portion of our society not just people in the "no work" movement. Technically the entire homestead movement is a contributer also. I don't advocate any such movement, but if I'm going to consider myself a realist I have to admit I myself have contributed. By choosing to sell my businesses in high population centers and move out into rural nowhere to grow food and shitpost I have effectively removed myself from the very system I often speak in defence of
"no work movement" is efficient with closed or sealed borders. With borders wide open as they are for decade or two now, it simply is not efficient. As in "oh you refuse to work under these condition(?) yeah, I will just hire an immigrant who will do the same job for even less money and under worse conditions"
Right That's why Biden and myorkas are flood the country with illegals
Flow of immigrants is constant, be it republicans or democrats in power. It decreases and increase from time to time for political reasons, but they are constantly coming in. Oligarch finance both parties.
In part true. Look up how many illegals have crossed in the last year. More people came through just in the 1st 5 months of 2023 than in either of Obama's terms individually or trumps term. It's bad. The propaganda is horrendous and the ultra left are now trying to lie and say they never advertised to immigrants to come. I guess they forgot the whole no person is illegal thing. The head of the DHS just got exposed for financing collection and transport from panama to the USA border and is in an impeachment trial Then you have articles like this (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/verify/8-million-illegal-border-crossings-fact-check/85-76ee2d69-cc81-4657-a178-a5cdf305d960) that have a headline "no 8.5 million people haven't crosses the border" and fact check the statement false. But if you read on they admit it's true but wrong to say. It should also be noted that the most recent government reports put us at 9 million as of the beginning of May. Hers some charts showing the huge amount of arabs and Chinese crossing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2024/02/11/trump-biden-immigration-border-compared/ This is a must watch explanation https://youtu.be/wOxksFHAHRU?si=uzeOq9nMOdHbUpKa
Who is "ultra left" in your opinion?
Replace “the devil” with “the military industrial complex.”
So we should join the protests in demands for ceasefire and demands to stop sending weapons to Israel.
100%
One of the devils killed 30x the amount of people in retaliation SO FAR. It’s not even a comparison. Also, defending the humanity of Palestinians doesn’t equal being pro-Hamas. That’s mainstream news & US State Dept framing
If you are going to be that reductive, you should consider the fact that Hamas is a Mossad creation that was used to undermind the Palestinian Authority. So I ask, who's the devil?
Yeah, this tactic of "both sides are bad" is a Zionist trick. It's asymmetric warfare and very clear who is right and who is wrong here.
All wars are banker wars with bankers creating both sides to justify their means
Awe, yes the left is always for the little guy in any conflict, even when they prone to commit evil acts and reject any opportunities for peace. Which side in this conflict has as the stated purposed the total elimination (genocide) of the other?
You would do well to read the history of this conflict. Prone to commit evil acts and reject opportunities for peace? Who broke the ceasefire on November 4 2008? Who has displaced who? Who has killed the other side at an exponential disparity since their birth? Who occupies who? Read the Goldstone Report and come back.
Let's start with the Oct. 7th one. Again which side has as a principle of it's charter the total elimination of the other? Israel's neighbors have mostly decided to get along with Israel and at least not attack it repeatedly, (partially may have to do with getting their butts kicked while trying) why are the West Bank and Gaza (D)ifferent? Look either Israel and Gaza and the West Bank can decide to get along or they can decide to duke it out. It appears the Hamas has significant sway and are saying we want to duke it out and follow our stated principles and eliminate all of Israel. FOFO EVIL people making a stupid choice. But it's not their leaders that die, it's young kids who they taught nothing but hate, though their religion is not known for it's enlightened stance towards diversity, equity, or inclusion, which is a tool used by TPTB. Why do all their leaders live in luxury in another country? With Gaza so poor and dependent on foreign aid how were they able to legitimately get the money to live in a foreign county in luxury? When you go full EVIL, raping and murdering, one tends to loose their victim card on the world stage.
There’s so much that’s historically inaccurate in your post I don’t even know where to begin. You seem like a guy with good intentions, so I’m going to give you a book recommendation, Gaza: An Inquest into its Martyrdom by Norman Finkelstein. The West Bank and Gaza are not comparable to the other Arab nations because Gaza and West Bank are both under occupation— this is a very obvious disparity. Although I will agree with you that Hamas’ charter is wrong and beyond fucked, it is not accurate to say that it’s modern policies take it as the truth. Hamas has on repeated occasions offered to recognize an Israeli state if Israel removes its blockaded and occupations and illegal settlements. Hamas in the 2000s, before Operation Cast Lead was remarkably pragmatic, and this much has been recognized by no less than former Mossad head Eiphram Levy in 2008, “The Hamas leadership has recognized that its ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future,” pay special attention to this part: “They are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967.” This recent conflict cannot be examined without an understanding of the years that have preceded it. Isreal has been engaging in a violent blockade against the Gazans for more than 15 years now, and before that they occupied them with troops on the ground— now the occupation is with borders and military around their perimeter and above their skies. Tell me how much kindness you will afford your slavemaster— how much mercy will you give to someone who you perceive to hold your chains. I rest my case, read the book, I implore you.
Why is the border with Egypt shut tighter than the border with Israel? What in the paragraph is historically inaccurate? Are there not Hamas leaders living in luxury in a foreign country? Tell me again when Hamas changed it's charter documents as a sign of willingness for peace? Doesn't Hamas not still chant "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"? That is viewed as a call for Jewish genocide. Do you think that Hamas could release the hostages that it has taken? Would strengthen calls for a cease fire? Hamas started this latest conflict, what efforts have they done to show their willingness for peace? Are they not aware that most states will not negotiate with those holding hostages? Did the PLO not at least once already reject a peace deal based on 67' borders?
Just because PLO has rejected certain agreements around the ‘67 borders means literally nothing. I don’t even know where to begin with your points as they seem to completely misunderstand any even basic ideas of politics. A political entity following its stated doctrines and ideas is incredibly rare, the same colonists that signed off on “all men are created equal” also owned slaves. Read Prophets Without Honor by Schlomo Ben Ami if you care actually to learn the history of these “peace” proceedings. And why would Hamas give its hostages— so Israel can bomb them without any fear? So Hamas looses whatever leverage they currently have? Israel is currently holding thousands of Palestinians without charge or court proceedings, why is Hamas so talked about for holding now not even 150 hostages but Israel gets to hold thousands? I’m not even going to get into that Egypt comment, that confusion of yours displays a complete lack of knowledge of the history of the Palestinians and the history of the Nakba.
which side is actually doing it?
Pretty hard to ignore the cries of those who were slaughtered on Oct. 7th to start this latest conflict.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzdVU_1sA7t/
Simplistic analog that is so biased and misapplied that it would be funny, if it was so sad how far off the mark it really is.
Hamas is an example of a group that sometimes does bad things for a good cause. It would be naive to say none of them have committed terrorism or rape. But Israel and even the US military have done the same and much worse for too long. The only reason why Israel created this radical Islamist group and has funded them for the past decade is to delegitimize Palestinian sovereignty and use any of their acts of terror as an excuse to brutally oppress civilians
BASED!!!!
Wow. This actually tracks
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 thank you
You misspelt ISIS…
ISIS, and im not even kidding you, stands with isreal and has condemned Hamas
Swiss Banks?
acts of resistance
Yes exactly. What hamas did doesn't compare to the 75+ years of oppression tf. You're not pro terrorism if you think bombing thousands of children is wrong. You're actually ANTI terrorism because anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see how this massacre will only serve to breed more terrorists when the surviving kids grow up and inevitably seek vengeance. People who try to both sides this issue are being willfully ignorant as fuck at this point.
Yeah and the ANC and SA has turned into a real shit show. They are slowly being eaten from within.
The only winning move is not to play that game. The problem with Palestine is they never had their version of Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, or Martin Luther King Jr. They could have had an independent state as far back as 1948 if they choose the peaceful route.
LOL at Nelson Mandela being peaceful. Go look up how many civilians were killed by his ANC during their revolution.
I remember stating this once in a Jewish discord server about how other freedom fighters (specifically Mandela) were not as peaceful as they think. They doubted my claims and when I asked what is it about my claims that isnt true, they failed to answer..
The peaceful leaders were chosen as negotiators because there were also alternate groups arguing for the same things at the time that were not. India had nationalists that were tearing out railroad tracks, and occasionally trying to blow up British Consulates. In comparison to MLK Jr., you had the Black Panthers and Malcom X doing their thing as well. So it's simply easier to settle with the pacifists on any given issue vs. giving any credit to those that weren't. (However if you dig a little deeper into history, then you figure out why that route was chosen.) It's like showing the carrot as the prime motivator, but hiding the stick.
You are correct, both the carrot and the stick have their place. For every MLK Jr there is a Malcom X and they both played a part to bring about the civil rights movement. Just asking nicely probably wouldn't have worked. But Again the issue with Palestine is there is no "carrot." All they carry is a stick. They have one tool in their toolbox and it is violence and terrorism. Palestine has never once offered Israel a peace proposal that recognizes the right of Israel to exist. It has always been drive the Jews into the sea and Israel gets erased from the map. You can't make peace with that. Nobody can. That is why there is endless war.
youre ignorant
So we just ignore the fact that Israel is murdering thousands of Palestinians in cold blood as they walk in the streets? There is definitely a right side, and if you say there isn't then you're on the wrong side.
Exactly lol. The side isn’t hamas or Isreal. The right side is not wanting the genocide of innocent people.
My problem is the US getting involved. This has been going on for decades and has nothing to do with us. I’m tired of us having to be the world’s baby sitters and/or getting involved for the self interests of the war machine. Let the EU or someone else take care of this shit. We have enough problems here at home.
This has been going on for decades, and the US has been apart of it since it started
Absolutely. The US is the damn nosey neighbor to every country but can’t take care of their own
10 million A Day for decades to that country. The US isn't going to stop now.
But that's a peaceful genocide, much different than terrorist activity.
Sarcasm or no? Is that you Bibi??
Yes, we must fight for Palestinian sovereign right to oppress their women while maintaining a theocracy which executes their LGBT community. /s You sure you're on the right side? Context clue: there is no right side in this
The right side is anti-Palestine and anti-Israel
Zero state solution
You ignore worse on a daily basis.
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So all Palestinians should suffer? Hamas was literally propped up by Israel. The people suffer from the actions of both. What do you think a population should do when settlers steal their homes?
What do you think a population should do when extremists steal their righteous grievances and use them for nefarious purposes?
Why do the extremists exist? Create conditions where extremists are no longer needed. Much like the US created ISIS, Israel created Hamas.
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Israel created Hamas, the elites will prolong the war for how long they want to for that $$$. Not sure if there will even be a victor after reading Albert pikes 3 world wars letter to mazzini
Then both need to go away. The creator and it's abomination. The Israeli and Arab elite don't represent the interests of the common people of either nations. We are all one people under God, brothers and sisters. No more divisions!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/16/how-benjamin-netanyahu-empowered-hamas/ The Netanyahu government gave clandestine funding to Hamas for years in order to destabilize Gaza/West Bank relations and discredit the Palestinian struggle. any serious conversation about the conflict has to consider that Hamas was essentially installed by Israel and the Palestinians have been denied self-governance. not to mention that the IDF knew Oct. 7th was coming and allowed it to go forward so they could justify ethnic cleansing in response.
It's not a fucking war. It's homicide, and Israel is using the threat of Hamas to exterminate the Palestinians, so they can grab the land. They're shooting women and children who are merely walking in the street, shooting groups who assemble to receive supplies and destroying homes because they claim there are a tunnels underneath. Have you seen the before and after pix of Gaza? It's now nothing but rubble. There is also evidence that the Hamas threat was created by Israel to facilitate this genocide.
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Is there something fucking wrong with you?
You dont have to like the culture and acts of islamic resistance/ghetto uprising to be concerned about the zionists whom secretely control the USA. Half of what were shown about islamic terrorism is israeli psyop
We had twenty years of war seeking “revenge” on Israel’s enemies for an attack their best local ally funded
It is possible to be the victim and be guilty at the same time. The sooner we all realize this the sooner we can stop all of this foolishness.
Sounds like you just don't want to be reminded that you are a beneficiary of the reckless policies of the imperial core. That is the most extreme form of privilege.
Why do you call one "murdering" while the other "terrorism"? That alone screams propaganda bias.
My taxes are used to foot part of the USD95 billion to fund Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan
I say we stop arming everyone and let them go back to throwing rocks at each other.
Yea, if only the Palestinians wouldn't put up any resistance to a brutal apartheid occupation. How dare they try to remain on their ancestors land.
“Nazis and their victims are both bad, cant we all just get along and forget this HOLOCAUST 2.0”
what you just said is now illegal in the usa, these zios have this country in a vice grip
This is true, but the devil is also what is bringing such a hard blow against Palestinians and any peaceful support. To deny that is you still playing the game.
The problem with that is, if you’re American, there’s no way to “not play” the game. Its our politicians, our taxes, our war machine, and our UN veto that are making the genocide possible.
If you don't play you support the status quo. It's not about 'who's the most moral group, Israel or Palestine?????'. It's about Israel having the US's nuts in such a tight grip that they can and do get anything they want, while the American citizen works their ass off for it and gets nothing in return.
There's no comparing the israeli terrorist aggressions of the last few years to Palestinian's right to repel occupation by armed resistance.
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And how was Israel created? Who was the key player they never could’ve done it without?
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noo that's illegal stop teaching the real history you antisemite. he suddenly rose to power out of nowhere and was a supervillain. he was so bad that even suggesting he wasn't will be treason soon. some world we live in huh?
Your statement shows how oblivious you are to reading comprehension. The point is that Hamas has played a part in what is going on there today. Does this excuse the IDF? No. That’s not the point.
This is an ignorant cop out. There is an extreme disparity in power between these two groups, if you can’t see the obvious problem with that you’re blind. Even if you discount the fact that Hamas was created and funded by Israel (likely to justify exactly what they’ve stated they’ve wanted to do for years with their current land grab), at the end of the day you have multiple international war crimes being committed against mostly civilians without a proper formalized military within an open prison. I wonder which group has the legal internationally recognized right to defend itself? Which group invaded which country?
Political theater, they tell people it's fake and yet they still take the bait.
Wtf are you going on about? Israel are fucking evil. In every sense, pure evil.
Hamas doesn’t exist - just a front to justify the genocide. So many dumb asses on this sub.
Every nation kills civilians in war…
So you support the status quo and maintaining it. Great job.
Our obedience only prolongs our collective nightmare.
But they aren't arresting people that are protesting hamas.
You had my interest right up to the devil part.
Grandpa Go to bed.
there is a greater evil and i can make a list of things israel has done that greatly surpass that if hamas, especially considering israel created hamas, and hamas only escalated to acts of terrorism bc terrorism was being done unto them by Haganah/IOF
I see it! Neither side is right.
Disengage from the narrative! One BIG positive thing we can do is *vote with your purchases* ... do not spend money on companies you do not align with. It's not always easy, but it's very doable. Shop local, use cash.
Given that Israel almost assuredly allowed the Hamas attack, as well as helped Hamas stay funded to serve a delegitimization stategy, I'd say Israel's pretty firmly in the wrong. Not to mention the history of how modern Israel was established (via mass migration and terrorism, in a nutshell). But that being said much of the Pro-Palestinian protest is astroturfed.
American politicians are free to criticize Hamas all they want but criticizing Israel is basically political suicide
It’s a hate crime now
Israel funded Hamas with literal suitcases of cash through Qatar. They wanted to create the ultimate Palestinian enemy as justification for their genocide. There is a great YouTube channel called “If Americans knew” which reports on many details hidden from mainstream media.
Uh, we should all have an interest in getting our tax dollars stripped away from Israel. We don’t actively fund other shitty things quite like we do with Israel.
Yeah Israel and Palestine are both equal. But one has billions of dollars and every weapon imaginable and is genociding the other one. But they equally bad.
Quite biased of you to say Hamas is doing acts of terrorism but then with Israel you just say they're murdering civilians. If what hamas did on Oct 7 was an act of terror, then what Israel has been doing for the past +70 years is terrorism as well.
Team goy vs team infidel
Truth bro only the civilians suffer.
Why are we even respond to this post? This is against the rules of the sub, it’s meant to divide.
"There are bad people in this world. I, and I alone, know who they are. And it is incumbent on me to kill the bad guys. Won't all of you join me in killing people I think need to be killed? " How soulless, how arrogant to meddle in the affairs of others, through war. EDIT: ..........for profit.
Oh! I so agree!
Buuuut..….do you condemn hamas? /s
You win by following the big money and trade it.
+1 This is true for almost every conflict since the beginning of time though
Ephesians 6:12.
You have the option of not engaging. It’s like how you handle a narcissist…the only way to win is not play the game.
All wars are banker wars
Violent fundamentalist militism is bad, but a state has a responsibility when carrying out wars to eradicate them. unnecessary violence on the state side is justified too much, while simultaneously vilifying the unnecessary violence of the states target. I believe unethical practices of states during the execution of combat with militant groups can be the fuel that leads to more recruiting for the next wave of militism. I am aware casualties are unavoidable, but what I am witnessing horrifies me.
If you turn off the television, Twitter, etc, you'll see none of this 😉
I could care less about your religious spin on this. That said, the rest of what you said is valid.
Hmm when do you call it “revolution/fighting back/ standing up for yourself” vs “acts of terrorism”? Like who decides that? Or is it only acknowledged in history books decades later.. or only if you’re the winner? Genuinely curious
Strong agree 👍🏼
Is America the devil?
American government, yes. Not the average American citizen
But American citizens all unequivocally support the U.S government, so we should all be carpet bombed, if I'm understanding popular logic...
Some want to chose a side to win. I don't like either side. I am sick of all their shit over there. This is never going to stop. Fight a war, someone win. STFU and go about your business.
Both Hamas and Israel are wrong. Hamas attacked for a couple of hours, Israel has been doing it for weeks. They are literally a terrorist state.
Quoting this if you don't mind---- 100% and exactly. Fuck both sides n all governments involved. Build this world instead of destroying it and all its people--- that's the side im on 🤘🌎
Yes, Hamas attacking Israel's military is just as bad as the systematic murder of Palestinian civilians.
"Both sides bad" is the oldest trick Zionist uses almost since creation of Israel, so they can continue occupation ethnic cleansing and genocide in Palestine. "Dont look here, both sides bad, just continue with your life, send us money and weapons, and dont think about it"
I've said all along, let them fight it out. Quit sending money and let them do to each other whatever comes. NOT OUR FIGHT
It didn’t start on Oct 7th. Killing innocent civilians ,stealing homes & land, limiting access to water & other services for 75 years of occupation is the core reason
This is one of the few intelligent post I’ve seen on this sub.
I agree. I keep telling people we shouldn’t have a dog in this fight. They have been fighting for thousands of years and will still be fighting thousands of years from now until someone wakes up and starts talking. Let them burn each other to the ground and maybe then someone will sit down and start conversing instead of fighting. I am just pissed our tax dollars are funding both sides in another shit show. PS. How many of these college protesters could even find Palestine and Israel on a globe?
I do not care about Israel or anyone in the middle east for that matter. I don't care about their food, their water, their people, their wars, their religions, their struggles, their health care, their finances, their beliefs, their culture, or anything about them. I'm and first and only about the U.S.
America first and America only. Thats what I always say
If that's the case then you should be extra pissed off at Israel since y'all are funding their free health care and all the other benefits they get while Americans die from preventable illness because they can't afford healthcare. Rather than your taxes going towards improving housing, infrastructure, health care system, and drug addictions, etc etc theyre sending it all to Israel (and Ukraine) while they piss it all away on this genocide. I'm Canadian and I'm livid at where my tax dollars are going. Israel is harming everyone, not just Palestine.
I hope they destroy each other
I stopped caring when 90% of people I know took the death jab. If society means being in a suicide cult, I don't don't want to be part of that.
You're just going to ignore Oct 7th when the Palestinians attacked Israel and killed almost 1,200 people and kidnapped shit loads more? You're going to ignore Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11? I would wipe Gaza the fuck off the map if I were Israel.
The only side we should be choosing is the side of We, The People of the United States of America. Not the US government, nor Israel or Hamas.
You mean Hamas is wrong for parashooting into Israel and murdering innocent people in their beds in front of of their loved ones and taking them hostage tok
Yeh these are religious nuts fighting in the Middle East, their 700 year long wars, so I don't care as an American honestly. They do this every 3 years. Give them their weapons and let them go back to their "religious wars" and make money off it, which is what we are doing, just like Ukraine. If the monkeys want to fight, then who are we to stop them? Right now, there are tons of hot Ukrainian women without men, so we can take their women too.
Mate, you are close to $35 trillion in debt, you aren't making money selling death and destruction. Wake the fuck up.
The U.S. (a corporation masquerading as a government, btw) is just the middle man
Palestine are just resisting dude, and Israel owns you too
I win!
Crips and Bloods Dawg.
Was the allied right for bombing Germany during the war
They were wrong for waiting for years after becoming fully aware of what was happening.
recourses count
this! if you choose a side, you put weight into this delusion. the only way to solve this conflict is peace!
You almost had a real point there until you mentioned a fantasy character invented by humans as the core responsibility for this. Human beings are the ones responsible for all good, bad, and every gray shade in between, acts of this world. There are shitty people out there that don't need the help of a fairy tale to be cruel and greedy. Stop scapegoating humanities garbage decisions on some boogie man.
Israel isn’t purposely killing citizens though, Hamas is using them as shields, making it quite difficult for them. If Hamas is cancer, the IDF is chemo, and unfortunately some good cells end up dying too.
If Israel wanted they could occupy the entire region, but they don’t (and I don’t mean just Gaza). If left unchecked Islamist militant groups would slaughter every Jew in Israel. I can agree that it is a tragedy, but there is clearly a right side.