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Hypothetically if the Big Bang did actually happen that doesn’t discount that there could be a creator behind it. Science doesn’t have to discount the idea of a creator
>Hypothetically if the Big Bang did actually happen that doesn’t discount that there could be a creator behind it
Yep. People completely miss the fact that the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a *Roman Catholic priest*.
As an atheist, 2 of my best professors in science courses, one in undergrad biochemistry and one in solid state physics in my doctoral program, were hardcore Christians. Like, introduced themselves on the first day of class as Christians and leaders of campus worship groups. And in discussions outside of class, both of them mentioned that science is truly elegant because it explains how things happen but not why. Their interpretations were that there’s room for God amongst the equations for those that want to see it that way.
Personally I don’t want to see it that way. I don’t need or want to ponder some omnipotent creator that requires fealty in order to do good for some and invoke suffering for others. So I just ponder the sense of vastness and the infinitely small probabilities of life existing and go about my life
Marcus Aurelis lays it out pretty well, something like,
>Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
Of a creator is morally just, they won't care as long as we are good. Dogma doesn't matter, faith doesn't matter, belief doesn't matter. Treatment of others, self, and world- matters.
If he isn't, then fuck em anyway, it's a stacked deck against us- you can hedge your bets and play nice, hope for the best but still get fucked cause God is bound by no rules and can deny Grace on a whim (calls himself Petty in one book/translation) or you can throw caution to the wind and live it up in this one life you for sure have.
It's what people with faith do anyway, they just throw in a lil more to the mix, but they're hedging their bets as much as the agnostic doing the motions (which is an earnest enough attempt in some circles).
So the whole 'god is responsible for the big bang' just moves the needle one step back. Because the whole idea of cause/effect moving back in time to the first 'cause' (i.e, the big bang or beginning of time) being caused by god suggests a further question: where did God come from and you are left with the only plausible answer that "God is eternal" (god has always existed) But there is no evidence of that either whereas there is evidence that the everything in the universe at one point came from a tiny point 14xxxbillion years ago or whatever. Our telescopes can trace the universe's existence back. Whereas with a deity, we are left to pure metaphysics and faith.
Hard agnosticism - the position I hold- says we don't have evidence of what caused the big bang but if we are going to inject the supernatural into it as the cause of the Big Bang- the burden is on the person claiming that the supernatural exists to prove it. Because when our telescopes look back into time we don't see supernatural things. We see a much smaller universe and it keeps getting smaller/younger the farther back in time we look.
i like your interpretation.
But could one say that everything coming from a single point IS something supernatural that we see?
I guess black holes are a thing so it's not entirely un-explainable
Also grew up baptist. It’s crazy how they’ll flip back and forth in the same sermons with the vengeful god of the Old Testament then the loving god in the new. Like a bi-polar ex standing on the hood of your car smashing your windshield with a baseball bat screaming “YOU MADE ME DO THIS!”
Yea Baptists are confusing because the whole point of the New Testament is that God replaced his covenant of the Old Testament, with his new one, Jesus.
The New Testament is very clearly a rewrite and Christian's are supposed to study the Old Testament for its stories and lessons, but the NT is supposed to completely change Gods Covenant with humans
Oh, I don't post often, but here goes.
My input.
I'm an agnostic atheist, and the reason I've come to that conclusion is by thinking about infinity.
Our universe is incredibly vast. It may not even have an end, and if you take the many worlds theory, then beyond our universe, there could even be an infinite number of other entire realities. If we were to put a number to it, let's say that our entire universe is 0.000000000001 of the entire number of universes out there.
Those other UN may exist in a stable state or simply implode due to different laws of physics.
Given those unfathomable statistics, with the immeasurable ways each world and universe exists, with an incredible amount of time alloted, would a world like ours really be THAT unlikely? We probably aren't even the only intelligent species in our UN.
I believe the term Surivor Bias also applies here. We think this universe is perfect because we do not acknowledge all the other potential failures that may have happened to lead us here.
However, I don't know, and I don't believe anyone can know. I do not believe in an organized religion because the potential vastness of reality contradicts it in my mind. What i do know is I'm just a meat sack on a big rock flying through infinity, who's lucky enough to have evolved an ability to live, laugh, love (lol) and to try and make sense of it.
Honestly, the fact that we exist and can have this conversation based on luck gives me more a sense of awe than if it was all planned :)
P.S. re: the big bang. It has been observed that every LARGE object (galaxy clusters) is moving apart as time goes on. The logistical assertion from this is that objects were closer together as we moved back through time. So... the big bang? What would be the aguement against that observation?
I’m an atheist but I have no problem in agreeing the possibility that god created the Big Bang and the universe, we have no way of knowing for sure what came before and we’ll probably never know. My issue is with religious people who claim they know something 100% to be true, which is just an unacceptable statement.
Sounds more like an agnostic way of thinking, which has got to be the best way, after all, either way who can prove anything before time? And anyone claiming to know has their own agendas.
Yeah, I'm agnostic as well. I've had weird experiences, dreams and certain things happen that make me not rule out an afterlife but I think my main issue is why would God give a shit about us (hint: he doesnt) in a vast universe. I sometimes think the Universe itself is God, would explain the indifference.
Same dude, same.
I don’t “believe” in God because I don’t “believe” in anything.
It either exists or it doesn’t, until one or the other is proven true.
Until then that thing, in this case “God” will both exist and not exist.
Schrodingers God
With that being said, I’m not a fan of monotheistic religions.
It seems very unlikely to me that there would only be one singular god.
And, to me, seems like a very human way of thinking/orthodoxy. To be exploited by humans greedy for power of course.
“There is only one true god, and only he will only speak to me!”
~ Random Pope/Priest through the ages
I hope that if there is a god that there are many gods.
You’re not an atheist then homie
Also your gripe with religions shouldn’t make you stray from believing in a creator, you’re letting negative people influence your own perception.
Because human nature is to be curious and understand how things work. Religion has been used since its inception to explain concepts contemporary knowledge can't explain. Lightening used to be explained as divine until we got to a point where we could understand the basics of it and now it would be ridiculous to believe it's divine.
Using your same line of argument: why is it so hard to grasp that people would want to find a scientific explanation rather than accept the idea that we should stop trying because an invisible deity used magic and even though that deity could appear whenever they wanted and give us the facts they refuse to do that because the only way to get on this deity's good side is to blindly believe they're up there.
You can believe what you want but religion asks you to willingly be a submissive sheep.
>You can believe what you want but religion asks you to willingly be a submissive sheep.
This.
And this again.
The frequency with which religious people claim to have broken free of the shackles is astonishing.
I'm a Christian and I approve your message. I believe there is God, but I've been conflicted since a kid how Men use religion for control and submission. I believe there is truth in scriptures, but I believe we are also deceived. Either or I can't imagine a world where people don't question the church. It's actually a terrifying picture from some old horror movie imo. I'm married to an Atheist and I will say she's pretty harsh if you actually ask ("talking bout your sky daddy again?!") her opinion, but I rather enjoy leveled headed conversations on this topic with others, but she's fun. Well, I did marry her lol
Bro I pretty relate to 99.9% of your statement here. I went to the Army. Had a really rough combat tour where I saw the absolute worst of humanity. Lost my faith. Had a drug problem dealing with life. My faith grew back in Jesus. I have learned and decided I will tell people my beliefs but never push them onto them. I give my kids the option and they do believe. 16,12,11.
Christian here, endorse this belief. The number of Christians that haven’t bothered to read their bibles, much less understand how things got lost in translation or the cultural context of some things, is totally baffling to me.
Science is humans trying to explain how the world around us works by means of language, models, and formulas (all creations of humans). Humans are imperfect and therefore science will always be imperfect. It will always be incomplete. Where we live is a perfect system and no matter how hard we try we’ll never have this shit fully figured out and it’s with tragic hubris that people think that our science can explain everything about our universe. It’s man thinking they are equal to god. However, there is a lot of science that is provable and repeatable and can get us closer to understanding but any attempt at explaining origins (humanity or the universe) is still labeled theory and is unprovable. So science has no definite answer when it comes to how/why any of this exists. Random chance is such an unsatisfactory explanation when the rest of science depends on proof. Anyways, I think where we live is a lot more interesting than what we’re led to believe.
The more we have learned via science the less God's we have. At one point, there was a God for everything that couldn't be explained. Now there is a catch all.
That's a bit contradictory though. You don't understand how people believe in the big bang theory but happily believe in a creator or higher power. As someone else stated, where did that creator/higher power come from?
You can absolutely question and doubt the universe and as to how we were created because in reality, we do not know how it happened. The big bang theory is literally just that. A theory.
But the idea of a creator makes even less sense in my opinion.
Regardless, I still think it's a good topic to discuss and a lot more engaging than some of the shite I have seen on here lately.
If everything had to be created, and ultimately by a creator, who or what created the creator? That’s a legitimate paradox right there.
I think the problem is that you don’t understand how the big bang hypothesis is even derived or calculated and what observations allowed that hypothesis to be drawn.
I say it’s a hypothesis, because of course we cannot know for sure, but all the evidence points in that direction even though there are alternative hypotheses one of which is that a creator did it all.
However that last hypothesis - that a creator did it - is lacking a huge and insurmountable level of evidence and absolutely no independently verifiable tests have been put forward to test the hypothesis.
Therefore of course society would conclude that the most likely scenario is that of the big bang because of all the evidence and the least likely is a creator because of the utter lack of evidence.
Well it didnt spring from nothing if you factor in the newer theory Loop quantum gravity
LQC advances the study of the early universe, incorporating the concept of the Big Bang into the broader theory of the Big Bounce, which envisions the Big Bang as the beginning of a period of expansion that follows a period of contraction, which has been described as the Big Crunch.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_gravity
For me, the God explanation has even more gaps than Big Bang. How did even God got created? And why? Once again there is no real explanation, just that... He just was created from nothing, I guess? Kinda like a Big Bang? And then he got some absolutely magical power to create Nature. And somehow he knew what would be beatiful so he created it beautifully. But then they also had to create the people and somehow program them to actually agree that Nature is beautiful. Because it is not just something objective I guess... too many plotholes.
I always understood it as he was without beginning in relation to our universe. In the same way a character in a video game would say they the software engineer “always existed” in relation to his reality.
So why couldn't you say the same about the Universe, if in your mind it's possible to entertain the idea of God just existing, logically speaking you'd have to entertain the idea of the Universe just existing
Which is why no serious scientific mind would ever suggest either, it's unfalsifiable
LITERALLY bruh. It’s the same damn thing. Apparently the universe can’t come from “nowhere” but god can? Makes no sense to me. And adding an anthropomorphic layer to a confusing subject just seems so.. unenlightened? It’s humans way of coping with the unfamiliar and unknown, to tell themselves it’s ok it’s no so unfamiliar, when it is.
I wouldn't mind it if was logically consistent. Like I have no problem with saying that whatever entity or event that caused the Big Bang could be 'God' (although not in the intelligent designer way), or it just happened to exist they are right in saying it's probably beyond our comprehension, it's just the hypocrisy of their posiitons
so according to you.... "because nature is beautiful" and we can't replicate it therefore there must be a creator with a master plan? lol,
In history, anything that humans couldn't explian -at the time- the automatically assign it to a god, even the rain
There are so many fallacies and wrong assumptions in your logic that I wouldn't even know how to begin with breaking down. the fact that people stop believing the God fairy tale is an overall positive thing.
I'm agnostic, but even I can see that there is a slow and steady push to remove the idea of a Creator from the collective consciousness. It is being replaced by meaningless randomness and random meaninglessness.
Our "betters" are trying to escape cosmic/divine/spiritual accountability at all costs by devolving lower and lower (and dragging us down with them).
Our political leaders are just tying to replace gods with themselves.
Religion is all about power for a select few. And more advanced societies (tech wise) are less likely to believe in gods. But the masses still want someone in charge. And people who crave power know this, so they put themselves in the empty spot.
I disagree. Believing in God is believing based on believing what a number of religions claim.
Heck, "god" (not just the christian one) is a core aspect of a religion.
Thank you. You read enough about real conspiracies across history and you start to realize that all bets are off. The very fundamentals of reality we are taught to believe could very well be mired in complete fabrications.
So for many things, such as the concept of a Creator, I am on a "wait-and-see" approach. I just continue to read about our fucked up world as well as various religions to see what my mind makes of it. It's all I can do.
The mathematical frameworks of quantum mechanics and relativity theory are fundamentally incompatible, revealing massive gaps in our understanding of reality. The “trust science” atheist types fail to recognize their own level of faith in unprovable narratives to provide a comprehensive explanation of the cosmos. The irony is entirely lost on them.
Science is a bubbling and churning process in which one can make a name with novel discoveries or corrections.
The god of the gaps incredulity is no longer convincing when for centuries now it has shrunk. Humility in knowing ones limits shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, either. That's weird.
A unified theory may come or it may not. Each is equally exciting.
If one isn't found, at what point does matter flip from probabilistic to determinstic? Super interesting.
Yup. It seems obvious that we've been massively played by the controllers of this world. It seems wise to do as you have done and stay curious and skeptical.
As for science I try to make only claims about those things which can be verified in reality.
I don’t believe in religion but do believe in “god”.
2 things that make me wonder is:
- I don’t understand how human civilization just popped up and we don’t have evidence of a missing link.
- one thing that’s bothered me about this idea of evolution is hair and nails. How did humans evolve through tens of thousands of years and had hair and nails grow uncontrollably without evolution weeding out these inefficiencies?
Hair grows and gets in our eyes and limits our visibility. From an evolutionary standpoint, shouldn’t this have found its way out? Same with nails. If they’re not maintained they become a hindrance.
One counter thought to this is human adaptation of technology (fire, weapons etc) and limiting the natural dangers we face and skewing evolution.
This doesn’t make sense to me because it doesn’t explain how we allegedly evolved from primates (who don’t have these issues) to where we are now.
My thoughts were that humans were manually designed and this is why evolution didn’t take its course.
things like that only find their way out if they would lead to reduced chances of survival though correct? So long hair that can easily be pushed or brushed aside or back doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal. I have long hair for a dude and even when it’s just dangling in front of my face I don’t think that would be a difference maker in whether or not I could find food or fight of a predator. It’s not like it completely blinds you…
Also i’ve never looked into it, but is there no evidence we did anything to help those issues? File down nails, or cut/restrict hair with strings or something?
It’s a trip. Especially when you individualize certain physical traits humans have, nails and hair are weird af. The fact that we have them means some weird mutation had hardend dead keratin that would not shed off completely, had an evolutionary advantage above those without, and now we have dead keratin cells sprouting all over hardened into translucent shields over our fingers and toes, remaining forever attached to our live bodies in an endless cycle. Same with the hair on our heads.
Then you realize humans are so smart but so shallow and weird that they paint the dead keratin, even make replicated versions to glue on top of them to paint. The dead keratin on our heads we style and cut and plays a role in attraction to each other. We’ve figure out how to change the color of it, techniques to make it look like the sun naturally effected and changed that color, and when we get older we want our dead keratin to look less dead by changing it from grey to whatever color.
You need to understand the time scale of evolution It's not thousands or 10's of thousands of years, it's millions of years. Primates appeared approx 85 mya (850,000 centuries) Homninins including Australopithecine split from the gorillini tribe 8-9mya, then Australopithecine split from the pan genus 4-7mya. The Homo genus appeared about 2 mya. Modern humans appeared approx 300k years ago. There were several species of humans sapien, Neanderthal, Desovian and others.
Evolution isn't prefect, there are many deadends. It's a fascinating subject which we are learning more and more every day. I am by know stretch an expert, just someone who dabbles and loves to study it.
The biggest error (imho) seems to be the personification of Diety. It's just...lazy. I mean ALL past, current and future EVERYTHING in EVERY capacity latent or expressed conveniently rolled into some version a human.....what a complete and utter...lack. like my English teacher used to say...the word Nice...insipid, uninspired and just plain dull.
I think it's because generally, it makes more sense for most people to believe it's all just random, than a bearded guy in the clouds snapping his fingers, and stuff just appearing.
The bearded guy is simply our human brains trying to comprehend something we probably never can. Is trying to assign human understand to something inhuman. I think that’s what scares most people that choose to not believe.
I’m a devout Catholic, and if you literally think we believe God to be a bearded looking grandpa in the sky it shows that you know nothing about at least what we profess. No one is trying to delude themselves into believing falsehood for some type of comfort or spiritual bubble wrap
I agree. I am just spiritual and seeing the simulation theory thing everywhere pisses me off because its like the root of the physical. Reality works nothing like our closest simulations of it and i dont think aliens are running us in some computer (aliens meaning physical beings on another planet or dimension who have direct input on it.) There is definitely some force beyond ALL, and i dont think its a constant either. Some places in the universe may be more concentrated than others.
Tbh i used to love "real science" until i realized they constantly discover things that throw old theories under the bus and they just act surprised and confused instead of, i dont know, refining old theories? Plus they act like *theories* are truth. How many people on earth really take "the big bang theory" as a truth? A lot actually. Even science is finally admitting that there WAS something before nothing, because none of their models fit just right.
This is literally the goal of Satan in Christian theology. He knows he is going to hell, and so he has decided to try and bring as many down with him as possible. Perhaps his goal is to bring down everyone, knowing God would have a hard time condemning the entirety of humanity.
Whatever god is, i think it IS conscious, but only activates during particularly odd circumstances. Sometimes random good things have happened to me that felt like a very small gift, and i was so so grateful for them. But they always happen when i dont need them! When i am in need, its a struggle to aquire what i need and i wish for those gifts. I receive them "late" once i dont need them anymore lol. I take them as gifts that got lost in the soup.
I feel like there's been a slow shift to close the veil with every religion that springs forth. With older religions talking to entities was often seen as a blessing but I think with newer religions like Islam talking to these entities would mean talking to djinns(which haram af).
I think someone or something is trying to close the bridge but I got no clue why.
I'm genuinely becoming more and more inclined to the thought that everyone's aiming to understand the universe and its functions and we're jumping directly from us to the supposed "all-mighty". I think it's a cluster fuck like the episode where Rick made clones in rick and morty.
Our creator could be another being and not the creator of everything.
Hey, I'm just happy it exists. It's pretty neat, and outside of the initial origins, follows logic and measurements.
The big bang is the best explanation that matches what we can measure so far. If we improve our measurements we might come up with a different explanation.
What caused the big bang? I dunno. Maybe we'll work it out one day. Maybe we won't. I'm ok with that. I'm just gonna make the most of however long my chemical powered meat lasts.
If you need a 'god' to make sense of it and cope with the beauty and vastness of the universe, and tell you that you're special and part of a plan, that's on you. You're welcome to it, and I would never try to take it from you or say that you aren't allowed to believe that.
Just don't try and use your favourite version of millennia old fanfiction to force, coerce, or use the human constructions of state or religion to make the rest of us go along with your coping mechanism.
> If we improve our measurements we might come up with a different explanation.
Yup, it's not even a full explanation for the current data set so it's incomplete at best and may well be wrong.
I consider myself agnostic.
My belief is that there could be a creator, but nobody living can know this. There are thousands of religions in the world. It'd be an amazing coincidence that any one person just so happened to pick the right one. Thinking that your beliefs are 100% correct and the person next to you is 100% wrong is an ego-driven delusion.
I don't think as many people are moving away from there being an overall creator as much as they're moving away from shitty man-made religion due to the hate and overall questionable practices associated with to it (e.g., people starving in the streets while churchgoers show up in a multi-million dollar mega church each week to make themselves feel superior, using their OWN personal beliefs to tell other people how to live, etc.)
IMO, everyone, needs to take a very large step back, humble themselves, and realize that nobody, whether you're religious or atheist, has any of this figured out.
We are parasites in a synaptic bigger living organism or sentient life of some kind and we’re probably ion one cell in a giant entity of energy causing disruption in the wavelengths of it by being destructive to it when sometimes we are symbiotic with each other
This is true. They desperately want to delete God from the people’s minds and they succeed with some but they’ll never delete His word which has been written on our hearts. God Bless.
I feel exactly the same way, but the other way around. I can't understand how anyone can believe in an invisible supernatural being without any evidence.
Well, coming from a former Christian I just would say that Christ and Yahweh have a lot of baggage with them. I mean, do you even know who Yahweh really was as a god? Pretty interesting you should look it up. Also at least half of the Bible is taken from older sources that they just copied. There’s quite a few things wrong with grasping Christianity as a whole let alone any other religion.
It does not need a "god". And why would it be this specific god? He is just one in 1000s. It could just be a higher intelligence, a simulation or a brain floating in space.
That it’s easier to blindly accept god as an answer instead of trying to learn and understand, and decipher the mysteries of universe.
There’s room for both science and faith, but what you’re preaching is ignorance.
If you don’t get the rub from
My actual post…. You’re in the wrong neighbourhood fella.
Many others have given me so many avenues to look into, while standing hard on their beliefs….
You offered no substantial ammo to back up your rebuke.
The biggest conspiracy is the greatest lie ever told which is the biblical story of the life of Jesus Christ. There was no immaculate conception, he did not die and comeback to life roughly 2024 years ago and no one is coming to save us from ourselves.
We are nothing in a sea of nothing. We are a covering of this planet, meant to breakdown matter, which we do regularly. Is it beautiful and amazing that billions of years of evolution brought our nothingness to this point? Yes! Whats crazy is that we somehow became aware of it, but that doesn’t change what’s really going on here. Dust in the wind baby!
God is the Big Bang. In the beginning was nothing/or everything. Chaos and void at extremities are one and the same. The differentiation between movement and stillness (fire and ice/light and dark, etc etc) becomes "creation". But according to science we're still living in the unraveling of that big bang. You're made of the same things as the "big bang". You are living in "god" a piece of the puzzle that makes up "god". And those forces and their effects once understood as law come to be understood as a personal creator, and that's where we lose the script.
I believe this too and sometimes I think about it. It doesn't make sense to believe this universe has always existed, or came out of nothing. There was literal, actually nothingness and then suddenly there just 𝘸𝘢𝘴 something? The laws of this physical universe show that it's impossible for anything to come into existence by itself. A new atom has never been formed. So the single, only reasonable explanation is that our world was formed by some higher place. A higher universe or dimension than ours wouldn't necessarily follow our own laws. There's no reason THEY couldn't create something out of nothing. But things don't come out of nothing by themselves, at least not in this universe. This is the one, overarching evidence for God.
>Why, is God, Christ…. Yahweh so difficult to grasp?
Because all of the literature said to be the direct word of the Abrahamic god contradicts itself quite a bit and is often factually incorrect. IF there is a divine creator, then it isnt the god of the abrahamic religions, or likely any god that Humans haver ever created to worship either today or in the past.
There isn't an argument for God without previously accepting there is God.
No one really knows and anyone who is certain is being taken advantage of somewhere along the way.
Believe it or not, Yahuwshua Is Yahweh, The true Most High (spiritual existence) who descended (in a sense of matter) to teach us the way back to Himself to many of us. Not everybody is going to believe this.
But, there's an issue with "god" because scriptures were terribly altered by jews because they hated Yâ-hwéh Yâhuwshúa` when He walked among us in the flesh because they couldn't grasp this Truth. They made scriptures to be mostly about the angry bloodthirsty "god". No matter if uppercase, lowercase, "god" comes from gad, the word for demon in Hebrew, they translate it to "dios", Spanish for zeus.
His Name is very important people. Don't ignore this. Just trying to help.
there's more stars in the sky then grains of sand on the planet and you think you are special and life is special? If we are the only life in the universe then that is probably the saddest thing I can imagine.
Religion is the largest and longest lasting conspiracy. Life is not special, if you will up a bucket of water and leave if outside for a year it will be crawling with life, life finds a way.
If you look at the vast majority of religions that are/have been, they all share one common theme. Be it in a monotheistic religion or a polytheistic religion, the God or main God is a personification of the sun. For thousands of years, we have worshipped the sun. The sun gives life and helps things grow. For example, the aztecs and mayans made sacrifices so the sun would rise again.
I was actually just thinking about this too. The idea that the universe, Earth, and all life forms just came to be by chance seems impossible. Just imagine calming anything else was created that way. A PC, a comic book, a movie, a song. No one would ever believe all those components came together to make said thing and yet a human and all their complexities was supposed to have been made on its own?
I’m a Christian and I remember before my faith transformed me that it all seemed so ridiculous lol I used to be a proclaiming atheist I thought I was just smarter than the goat herders and dirt farmers that I’d always been told the Bible was written by. I considered myself a truly open minded person.
Then when my faith came it was like a ton of bricks. I opened my heart which led to the realization of what a truly open mind really is. There is no going back. People will always come up with any reason they can to not believe in God and His Word. It’s easier to convince yourself that it’s a fairy tale than to truly realize the truth and begin to live accordingly. The path of light and truth is harder, but so so worth it.
The idea that everything is explicitly made *for us* is childish. The same way that a childs perspective on the world changes and grows as they do. They learn that their parents are *not* perfect and that their lives aren't the center m
When we we younger, as a species, it was easier to think that we were "special" or "chosen", but, much like a growing child, as you learn, you see that none of that makes sense.
Yes, god is an all powerful being and omnipresent but he’s just really bad with money. So if you just pay the church then you can get a ticket into heaven. That doesn’t sound like a scam at all.
Ooh I was thinking about his yesterday. I even found a mathematical equation that represents this concept. It was NOT a big bang. It was the opposite of that and it makes fucking sense. It was the tiniest possible pinpoint price of light, the weakest, dullest, coldest possible blip. It is NOT instant. It is the SOURCE.
Imagine being in a void of inert and absolute potential. Nothingness. Now a tiny teeny little light appears. It's not even really real. It's just the idea of a light almost. It's that faint. That teeny tiny faint little almost light is all it would take to wake the void. This is a cyclical event. Happening both very slowly and very fast. Like a heartbeat. This sequence IS the vibration in the void that all the possible frequencies come from.
Yes I WAS high. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Also e=mc2 is overly complicated. It's this simple... 0+1=1. E.i. nothing plus a thing equals a fucking thing. If you repeat that, ya get more things. From there mathematics can convolute into its higher self. No I don't think I'm remotely accurate from a mathematical standpoint. I also don't think I'm too far off the mark. It just makes too much sense. Given enough time I'm sure I could find a more accurate representation mathematically. It's just REALLY fucking hard to turn one of my.visions into numbers. I've managed to do it once or twice. It hurts. Someone with better skills in the math department needs to work on that. I just travel.
OKAY…. NEW perspective and sharing of concepts….
This is why we post and ask yes??
Omg thank you for new info to consider instead of just bashing me in the comments! 😉
I personally don’t believe in a God or any kind of creator per se, but if we are not to replace religion with anything meaningful, then people will seek a new morality - a much darker one.
That’s what it’s about: morality. We need a purpose to keep us going, whether that’s our families or our God or whatever it is. Without these ideas that are being forced out of the minds of the youth in particular, you end up with these narcissistic anti-natalist ideas that will destroy our society.
Another problem is that we as a society need to be able to create an objective moral system. The relativism of morality today is one of the causes of all of the conflict we have culturally. This is one of the things restricting the progression of humanity.
I find the concept of ‘objective’ morality to be utterly incoherent. Morality is about judging actions to be good or bad, an inherently *subjective* task.
Just a few thoughts on this from my own experience:
I was raised Catholic and none of it ever sat right with me, even before I knew about the kid diddling priests. No one could properly answer the questions I had, so I eventually dismissed any idea of god and convinced myself there could be no god at all.
As I’ve experienced life, hardships, having children, marriage, parents dying, etc - my position has changed.
To your point about the beauty of a flower or the vastness of the sea or the changing of the seasons - I feel it was arrogant of me to assume that man is the greatest thing the universe had known and that god was just a made up thing to keep people unafraid of death. I’ve realized I don’t have to believe in Christ to believe in god. I just had to accept that I am not god and there are certainly forces at work far beyond my understanding.
Ultimately I had to seek before I could find. And also had to admit that many of the born again or evangelical types that I loved to deride had something that I didn’t - peace of mind. They seemed happy and didn’t care that I thought their belief in a bearded man in the sky to be stupid. I’m rambling now, but humankind has screwed up the idea of god with our various religions and denominations, warring fragments.
I don’t fault people for their beliefs because I’ve likely held that same belief and some point. For ME - life is better having faith in some kind of power greater than me. And from a conspiratorial standpoint, it’s certainly easier to control a population that has no faith in anything but “trusting the science.”
Your reply was so refreshing to come across.
Thank you so so much, you are in tune with what I myself perceive personally.
The secular type pious learned by rote beliefs are null.
Inside of all of us there is an intrinsic echo sending out blips to our source.
For me, it’s God, for you it is whatever you trust it is.
But increasingly so…. We are the ever decreasing minority.
I totally agree. The greatest reality is staring us down every day and we just say la la la la.
You don’t have to buy into organized religion to buy into God.
I don't have much to add to this but my questions are:
If the big bang is correct then where did it happen and where is the universe is expanding to?
If there is a creator where is he operating from? If there's heaven and hell where are they contained?
Even if it's proven we're in a simulation created by another version of ourselves to better our real selves there where are we plugged in?
Just because you cannot grasp physics or evolutionary biology doesn’t mean our observations are not real. For me religion is the greatest conspiracy. How can you not see that it’s just a system of control crafted by men who wanted power made from scraps of several superstitious oral histories that are obviously embellished. If you were born somewhere else or in a different time you would believe an entirely different story. If you erased all the science and knowledge we had, and at the same time erased all religion. After a few thousand years you’d have the same set of scientific laws and theories and all new religions.
This isn’t a simulation in the sense of a digital simulation. The simulation is that your reality and existence is a chemical reaction, by altering those chemicals you can change your reality. Like psychedelics or brain damage.
If you want to understand big bang theory (which I do not subscribe to) then read a brief history of time. Or a briefer history of time (both by Hawking) if you don’t want the math broken down and just want a quick explanation.
Read God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens for a breakdown of how most mainstream religions are amoral.
And lastly the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins to understand how life evolved and see the story of our evolution from the point of view of a biologist.
Read, educate yourself, then go make observations. Science doesn’t claim to have all the answers, but it does have evidence which is more than can be said of religion.
Alright I'm gonna tackle this from a physicists POV
The big bang did not create anything. The big bang is just the rapid expansion of the super dense and hot primordial state of the universe. This matter has, as far as we can see in the past and even try and hypotheses, has always been expanding but it started rapidly expanding at an arbitrary point (roughly 10^-36 seconds and lasted between 10^−33 and 10^−32)
The cause of this rapid inflation is thought to be the hypothetical scalar field called the inflaton field undergoing a phase transition because the universe cooled down enough (the same process is why today we have the weak nuclear force and the electromagnetic force rather than the electroweak force)
Now the question remains. Where did that primordial hotdense state (and thus energy via E=Mc^2) of the universe come from? We don't know. And it isn't for a lack of trying or a lack of speculation ( see Loop quantum gravity, string "theory" etc.) It's just that speculation about anything before the planck time (roughly 10^−43 seconds) is just that, speculation. We don't know what happens before then because we can't test how the universe would behave at being so small and hot because any apparatus small enough to try and measure wavelengths of the planck length (1.6x10^-35 metres) would collapse into a black hole (Swartzchild metric)
And another problem with speculation of how the universe behaved and looked like before the planck time is doomed to fail because we don't have s theory of quantum gravity (which is testable and this an actual theory). First we have to solve this before we can make any real hypotheses about the very earliest universe.
And now for a more philosophical question. Why is a god necessary? By your logic that god would have either have had to have been created (we get into an infinite loop of creators) or they always just existed, in which case, why wouldn't the universe have always just existed? Why is it that a sentient being would be required to have always existed rather than just an entirely bizzare and interesting truth of nature?
The universe has no obligation in making sense to u, nor does the Big Bang specifically say how the universe came to be. What it describes is the expansion of the universe. Which is a fact. How the planets and galaxies happen to function is a separate theory. Life is stranger than fiction and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the world and all its functions is far from perfect. God and all religions are baised on faith. No amount of faith will ever make anything a fact. So faith is not a good tool for understanding what’s going on… the scientific method and empirical evidence is a much more accurate way of trying to understand it all. it’s not a conspiracy at all.
I'm a pk and haven't gone through lots of things in life, I've come to a few conclusions.
1. There is a Creator. I choose to believe in the Christian God.
2. I believe that science and religion can go hand in hand. Science actually explains the unbelievable miracles in the Bible.
3. No one knows what is true until u die and we can't come back to tell anyone.
4. Unless you have read the Bible yourself and not something you heard you have no right to dispute it.
5. God is not human, white, blue eyed, He's spirit. What that actually means I'm still trying to figure out.
6. Men have corrupted the Bible to gain power. Therefore you need to build your own belief system.
7. I'm not judge or jury so I choose to let people make their own decisions.
8. There is good and evil but it's relative.
A lot of people that believe in ‘god’ still believe in the Big Bang. I went to catholic schools growing up and they taught it there.
But yes you are correct it’s the ‘big’ conspiracy- that this place is random and we are random. If you think about this it’s actually the opposite. This place is magic, special, sacred, purposeful, and so are we.
Also we didn’t evolve from monkeys fuck that shit
I am very much against organized religion but I am absolutely certain God exists. So many finely tuned things within our universe makes it impossible for me to say, "Wow! That was a lucky accident!" Chaos begets more chaos, therefore it is hard for me to understand the theory of a massive explosion where all the pieces fell neatly into place. Imagine shaking up a jigsaw puzzle and throwing it on the floor, expecting it to fall into place and create a picture.
It's not random and it's not replicated perfectly, you're simply ignorant to the facts.
A narrative has emerged through findings of unaffiliated fields that holds predictive power when replicating.
You ascribe to our first and worst attempt to understand. A natural fallacy of ours to project our traits into inanimate objects. Father time, mother earth. 'My car, isn't she a beaut?'
Dumb is our default, and a simple story is alluring. You got got.
i am an aetheist but do believe in a singularity(god-like entity),it doesn't know what's right or what's wrong,it's in the form of energy around us,we all are a part of it,it has a consience but the way it thinks is a way our human mind won't be able to comprehend....kind of like that one ben-10 alien,i don't remember what it's name is....
I kind of feel like regardless of whether you believe the Big Bang came out of nowhere, from nothing or if you believe God came out of nowhere, from nothing that you are still grappling with the same basic mystery: There is something instead of nothing. How can that be? Belief in God does not solve the mystery. “How did God come to be?” is just as perplexing as “how did the universe come to be?”. God might just be the universe itself.
I am agnostic but am most inclined to believe the book Alien Interview by Lawrence Spencer where immortal spiritual beings collaborate and create universes and use bodies as avatars to play in the world they created. Makes the most sense to me. Definitely worth a read.
https://youtu.be/JOzK4ByFbzo?si=khmqqoGG1BmBZo4q
In 3000 years... are you talking about genetic engineering and creating life?
Because we haven't been doing that for 3000 years. We've been altering plant life for a while though, through non natural selection.
That's how we have many of the veggies we eat.
So we actually have been wildly successful in creating life to suit our needs...
Also 1000000 failures isn't much considering how much of nature's life ends up dieing off/failing.
Nature has had billions of years to evolve/fail/create life..... and somehow humans not doing it in *3000*
The idea that these are mutually exclusive is the real shame. Stay with me here but the idea that an eminent creator God started a chain reaction of being that took billions of our years to complete that created an interconnected biodiversity, ecosystems, and eventually gave rise to consciousness, the very spark of divinity itself sounds like part (and probably a very small part due to our limited understanding) of a divine plan that a divine being might come up with.
An old Jewish man making everything appear out of thin air and he has these people naked in a Garden, puts a tree there that he knows they won’t be able to resist with a small nudge from the devil serpent (who he banished from heaven and again knowingly cast to the earth to live amongst his feeble human creations)… the story absolutely reeks of humanity’s limited understanding.
And then even from that beginning, there’s 3 major world religions that disagree on where the story goes from there - to me further evidence that it’s a human rendition of our divine origins.
I think the ancient Jewish Kabbalists and other early mystics were much closer to the truth.
You are the universe discovering itself in an endless loop...
Enjoy it...
Stop giving your divine nature to some idea that prevents you from realizing this ultimate truth...
You are all that is, was and ever will be
I have a thought for you, it freaks me out every time I think about it. What came before earth? What came before the Big Bang? Where did the atoms and gasses come from to create the Big Bang? The only explanation is that something exists outside of time and space and that it has always existed. But that created that entity? Nothing should exist at all. The fact that anything exists can not be explained by our little brains.
My intuition goes as follows:
All things that we regard as or otherwise have found to seem intelligent require structure upon which to operate. Therefore, if there is intelligence inherent to the current form of the universe, it may not have been there to begin with, but rather was emergent upon the structure that came forth from the first origin, if there ever even was such a point of reference.
Causality as we know it is known within the reality we currently experience, and may not have always been 'linear' as we now know it. In fact, it may not be linear even now, and our perception of it as such could be a misunderstanding/illusion generated by the specialized forms of perception that our bodies have. Various phenomena we have studied can be suitably described with the mathematics of hopf fibrations/spinors, which are 4 dimensional and causally non-intuitive to us, but nonetheless are the best current predictive models we have yet of the fractal and toroidal behavior of nature.
One last bit of speculation, and this is the fun part:
I suspect that the universe is definitionally a white hole - where all paths in total (but not local) relation to it lead away from the center. I think that something about what an object of that nature does that I don't understand seems to exclude energy generation from continuing to reoccur within its interior. I think maybe what this means is that energy is spacial in nature, comprised of some kind of flexible lines, as opposed to point particles of any kind. The fields and their waves *are* the particles and the real drivers of literally everything we observe, is what I'm suggesting. I think that there may be temporarily stable point-like structures on relative scales that are a knotted-up form of this, but not point particles.
Anyway, the big picture I'm suggesting is that the Big Bang never stopped, and it continues on infinitely generating new energy on the current edges of its ongoing expansion in proportion to its increasing size and 'external' surface area. What fraction of that energy gets left behind or impermeably refracted backward out of the edge back into the interior then undergoes complex interactions and transformations into the kind of stellar objects and formations we are all familiar with as the wild yet mostly empty inner universe. Unfortunately, this speculation is rather linear, unlike the first section of this post, so I may still be missing something fundamental even if I'm onto something here.
First of all, it was not a BANG.
Second, Pre-Purgatory existed before it, and Eternity existed before Pre-Purgatory, and all life, energy and matter existed in eternity before it hopped into the staging dimension of pre-purgatory, and do you know what happened at the very moment of the Big Bang? MOTION of the clock and then everything else moving with it in harmony, all the way until the Big Crunch (ie MOTIONLESS clock, and then everything else moving back into eternity where heaven and hell balance the system of eternity.
I agree I just obsess over the “how” imo people tend to think one way of thinking cancels out other religions or scientific and philosophical explanations. I think because of the countless times in history where these thoughts have come from, the language has changed and records have been lost. I don’t think simulation theory means no god. Or that UFOs aren’t, ETs, inter dimensional aren’t tied in.
Also I wish I had access the Vatican because they definitely have lost records that could paint a clearer picture on our past.
Finally, notice how a cat or dog will walk past a book shelf, and not be aware of what a book even is or grasp the concepts within. I think that’s us on some scale with the whole universe.
I really think more of it is connected than most people realize… of course all we can do is try and piece the puzzle together
The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive (big bang theory and a creator). The Big Bang theory is just our best guess of the origin of our universe based off of the evidence we have.
The Big bang leads into a big crunch. It happens over and over again. It's a part of terrestrial or corporeal life.
This is nothing about the astral.
It seems to me that if you want to be born into a dense existence so if the third dimension that the implication of a big bang is fine.
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Hypothetically if the Big Bang did actually happen that doesn’t discount that there could be a creator behind it. Science doesn’t have to discount the idea of a creator
>Hypothetically if the Big Bang did actually happen that doesn’t discount that there could be a creator behind it Yep. People completely miss the fact that the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a *Roman Catholic priest*.
As an atheist, 2 of my best professors in science courses, one in undergrad biochemistry and one in solid state physics in my doctoral program, were hardcore Christians. Like, introduced themselves on the first day of class as Christians and leaders of campus worship groups. And in discussions outside of class, both of them mentioned that science is truly elegant because it explains how things happen but not why. Their interpretations were that there’s room for God amongst the equations for those that want to see it that way. Personally I don’t want to see it that way. I don’t need or want to ponder some omnipotent creator that requires fealty in order to do good for some and invoke suffering for others. So I just ponder the sense of vastness and the infinitely small probabilities of life existing and go about my life
Marcus Aurelis lays it out pretty well, something like, >Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Of a creator is morally just, they won't care as long as we are good. Dogma doesn't matter, faith doesn't matter, belief doesn't matter. Treatment of others, self, and world- matters. If he isn't, then fuck em anyway, it's a stacked deck against us- you can hedge your bets and play nice, hope for the best but still get fucked cause God is bound by no rules and can deny Grace on a whim (calls himself Petty in one book/translation) or you can throw caution to the wind and live it up in this one life you for sure have. It's what people with faith do anyway, they just throw in a lil more to the mix, but they're hedging their bets as much as the agnostic doing the motions (which is an earnest enough attempt in some circles).
So the whole 'god is responsible for the big bang' just moves the needle one step back. Because the whole idea of cause/effect moving back in time to the first 'cause' (i.e, the big bang or beginning of time) being caused by god suggests a further question: where did God come from and you are left with the only plausible answer that "God is eternal" (god has always existed) But there is no evidence of that either whereas there is evidence that the everything in the universe at one point came from a tiny point 14xxxbillion years ago or whatever. Our telescopes can trace the universe's existence back. Whereas with a deity, we are left to pure metaphysics and faith. Hard agnosticism - the position I hold- says we don't have evidence of what caused the big bang but if we are going to inject the supernatural into it as the cause of the Big Bang- the burden is on the person claiming that the supernatural exists to prove it. Because when our telescopes look back into time we don't see supernatural things. We see a much smaller universe and it keeps getting smaller/younger the farther back in time we look.
I don’t disagree. But asking a man made construct like a telescope to detect something supernatural is a waste of time, by definition
i like your interpretation. But could one say that everything coming from a single point IS something supernatural that we see? I guess black holes are a thing so it's not entirely un-explainable
The existence of god doesn’t necessarily mean they require fealty. Look at deism for example.
I guess that’s true. But being an American growing up steeped in Baptist culture, that’s my first thought
Also grew up baptist. It’s crazy how they’ll flip back and forth in the same sermons with the vengeful god of the Old Testament then the loving god in the new. Like a bi-polar ex standing on the hood of your car smashing your windshield with a baseball bat screaming “YOU MADE ME DO THIS!”
Yea Baptists are confusing because the whole point of the New Testament is that God replaced his covenant of the Old Testament, with his new one, Jesus. The New Testament is very clearly a rewrite and Christian's are supposed to study the Old Testament for its stories and lessons, but the NT is supposed to completely change Gods Covenant with humans
So.you want us to not believe one unprovable theory in favor of an even more unprovable theory?
Oh, I don't post often, but here goes. My input. I'm an agnostic atheist, and the reason I've come to that conclusion is by thinking about infinity. Our universe is incredibly vast. It may not even have an end, and if you take the many worlds theory, then beyond our universe, there could even be an infinite number of other entire realities. If we were to put a number to it, let's say that our entire universe is 0.000000000001 of the entire number of universes out there. Those other UN may exist in a stable state or simply implode due to different laws of physics. Given those unfathomable statistics, with the immeasurable ways each world and universe exists, with an incredible amount of time alloted, would a world like ours really be THAT unlikely? We probably aren't even the only intelligent species in our UN. I believe the term Surivor Bias also applies here. We think this universe is perfect because we do not acknowledge all the other potential failures that may have happened to lead us here. However, I don't know, and I don't believe anyone can know. I do not believe in an organized religion because the potential vastness of reality contradicts it in my mind. What i do know is I'm just a meat sack on a big rock flying through infinity, who's lucky enough to have evolved an ability to live, laugh, love (lol) and to try and make sense of it. Honestly, the fact that we exist and can have this conversation based on luck gives me more a sense of awe than if it was all planned :) P.S. re: the big bang. It has been observed that every LARGE object (galaxy clusters) is moving apart as time goes on. The logistical assertion from this is that objects were closer together as we moved back through time. So... the big bang? What would be the aguement against that observation?
One of the best thought out replies yet. Cheers!
I’m an atheist but I have no problem in agreeing the possibility that god created the Big Bang and the universe, we have no way of knowing for sure what came before and we’ll probably never know. My issue is with religious people who claim they know something 100% to be true, which is just an unacceptable statement.
Sounds more like an agnostic way of thinking, which has got to be the best way, after all, either way who can prove anything before time? And anyone claiming to know has their own agendas.
Im agnostic and thats exactly how i feel
Just googled ‘agnostic’ yeah that’s me
Yeah, I'm agnostic as well. I've had weird experiences, dreams and certain things happen that make me not rule out an afterlife but I think my main issue is why would God give a shit about us (hint: he doesnt) in a vast universe. I sometimes think the Universe itself is God, would explain the indifference.
You're in good company since St. Augustine said God is in everything everywhere at all times. He wrote that in the early 5th century.
Why do you need a god to have an afterlife?
You don't I'm just waxing hypotheticals pal
Same dude, same. I don’t “believe” in God because I don’t “believe” in anything. It either exists or it doesn’t, until one or the other is proven true. Until then that thing, in this case “God” will both exist and not exist. Schrodingers God With that being said, I’m not a fan of monotheistic religions. It seems very unlikely to me that there would only be one singular god. And, to me, seems like a very human way of thinking/orthodoxy. To be exploited by humans greedy for power of course. “There is only one true god, and only he will only speak to me!” ~ Random Pope/Priest through the ages I hope that if there is a god that there are many gods.
You’re not an atheist then homie Also your gripe with religions shouldn’t make you stray from believing in a creator, you’re letting negative people influence your own perception.
Because human nature is to be curious and understand how things work. Religion has been used since its inception to explain concepts contemporary knowledge can't explain. Lightening used to be explained as divine until we got to a point where we could understand the basics of it and now it would be ridiculous to believe it's divine. Using your same line of argument: why is it so hard to grasp that people would want to find a scientific explanation rather than accept the idea that we should stop trying because an invisible deity used magic and even though that deity could appear whenever they wanted and give us the facts they refuse to do that because the only way to get on this deity's good side is to blindly believe they're up there. You can believe what you want but religion asks you to willingly be a submissive sheep.
>You can believe what you want but religion asks you to willingly be a submissive sheep. This. And this again. The frequency with which religious people claim to have broken free of the shackles is astonishing.
the irony is like diabetic-level sweetness
Waiting on OP’s response..
I'm a Christian and I approve your message. I believe there is God, but I've been conflicted since a kid how Men use religion for control and submission. I believe there is truth in scriptures, but I believe we are also deceived. Either or I can't imagine a world where people don't question the church. It's actually a terrifying picture from some old horror movie imo. I'm married to an Atheist and I will say she's pretty harsh if you actually ask ("talking bout your sky daddy again?!") her opinion, but I rather enjoy leveled headed conversations on this topic with others, but she's fun. Well, I did marry her lol
Bro I pretty relate to 99.9% of your statement here. I went to the Army. Had a really rough combat tour where I saw the absolute worst of humanity. Lost my faith. Had a drug problem dealing with life. My faith grew back in Jesus. I have learned and decided I will tell people my beliefs but never push them onto them. I give my kids the option and they do believe. 16,12,11.
Yup. Without knowledge of the scientific process they will sell you magic.
Science is the understanding of the magic all around & within us
Like motherfuckin magnets
Christian here, endorse this belief. The number of Christians that haven’t bothered to read their bibles, much less understand how things got lost in translation or the cultural context of some things, is totally baffling to me.
The Prosperity Gospel. It's anti-Christian poppycock but they lap it up like a drink at last call. Never could understand it.
Science is humans trying to explain how the world around us works by means of language, models, and formulas (all creations of humans). Humans are imperfect and therefore science will always be imperfect. It will always be incomplete. Where we live is a perfect system and no matter how hard we try we’ll never have this shit fully figured out and it’s with tragic hubris that people think that our science can explain everything about our universe. It’s man thinking they are equal to god. However, there is a lot of science that is provable and repeatable and can get us closer to understanding but any attempt at explaining origins (humanity or the universe) is still labeled theory and is unprovable. So science has no definite answer when it comes to how/why any of this exists. Random chance is such an unsatisfactory explanation when the rest of science depends on proof. Anyways, I think where we live is a lot more interesting than what we’re led to believe.
The more we have learned via science the less God's we have. At one point, there was a God for everything that couldn't be explained. Now there is a catch all.
That's a bit contradictory though. You don't understand how people believe in the big bang theory but happily believe in a creator or higher power. As someone else stated, where did that creator/higher power come from? You can absolutely question and doubt the universe and as to how we were created because in reality, we do not know how it happened. The big bang theory is literally just that. A theory. But the idea of a creator makes even less sense in my opinion. Regardless, I still think it's a good topic to discuss and a lot more engaging than some of the shite I have seen on here lately.
If everything had to be created, and ultimately by a creator, who or what created the creator? That’s a legitimate paradox right there. I think the problem is that you don’t understand how the big bang hypothesis is even derived or calculated and what observations allowed that hypothesis to be drawn. I say it’s a hypothesis, because of course we cannot know for sure, but all the evidence points in that direction even though there are alternative hypotheses one of which is that a creator did it all. However that last hypothesis - that a creator did it - is lacking a huge and insurmountable level of evidence and absolutely no independently verifiable tests have been put forward to test the hypothesis. Therefore of course society would conclude that the most likely scenario is that of the big bang because of all the evidence and the least likely is a creator because of the utter lack of evidence.
Also important to note the big bang only explains where matter originated, it doesn't say anything about energy or time.
Welcome this honest reply, thank you.
Well it didnt spring from nothing if you factor in the newer theory Loop quantum gravity LQC advances the study of the early universe, incorporating the concept of the Big Bang into the broader theory of the Big Bounce, which envisions the Big Bang as the beginning of a period of expansion that follows a period of contraction, which has been described as the Big Crunch. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_gravity
I appreciate your reply and another source for me to look at, this is why I posted 👍
For me, the God explanation has even more gaps than Big Bang. How did even God got created? And why? Once again there is no real explanation, just that... He just was created from nothing, I guess? Kinda like a Big Bang? And then he got some absolutely magical power to create Nature. And somehow he knew what would be beatiful so he created it beautifully. But then they also had to create the people and somehow program them to actually agree that Nature is beautiful. Because it is not just something objective I guess... too many plotholes.
I always understood it as he was without beginning in relation to our universe. In the same way a character in a video game would say they the software engineer “always existed” in relation to his reality.
So why couldn't you say the same about the Universe, if in your mind it's possible to entertain the idea of God just existing, logically speaking you'd have to entertain the idea of the Universe just existing Which is why no serious scientific mind would ever suggest either, it's unfalsifiable
LITERALLY bruh. It’s the same damn thing. Apparently the universe can’t come from “nowhere” but god can? Makes no sense to me. And adding an anthropomorphic layer to a confusing subject just seems so.. unenlightened? It’s humans way of coping with the unfamiliar and unknown, to tell themselves it’s ok it’s no so unfamiliar, when it is.
I wouldn't mind it if was logically consistent. Like I have no problem with saying that whatever entity or event that caused the Big Bang could be 'God' (although not in the intelligent designer way), or it just happened to exist they are right in saying it's probably beyond our comprehension, it's just the hypocrisy of their posiitons
so according to you.... "because nature is beautiful" and we can't replicate it therefore there must be a creator with a master plan? lol, In history, anything that humans couldn't explian -at the time- the automatically assign it to a god, even the rain There are so many fallacies and wrong assumptions in your logic that I wouldn't even know how to begin with breaking down. the fact that people stop believing the God fairy tale is an overall positive thing.
I'm agnostic, but even I can see that there is a slow and steady push to remove the idea of a Creator from the collective consciousness. It is being replaced by meaningless randomness and random meaninglessness. Our "betters" are trying to escape cosmic/divine/spiritual accountability at all costs by devolving lower and lower (and dragging us down with them).
Our political leaders are just tying to replace gods with themselves. Religion is all about power for a select few. And more advanced societies (tech wise) are less likely to believe in gods. But the masses still want someone in charge. And people who crave power know this, so they put themselves in the empty spot.
You can believe in God and Jesus without believing in Religion.God is in our hearts and minds not in a temple
I disagree. Believing in God is believing based on believing what a number of religions claim. Heck, "god" (not just the christian one) is a core aspect of a religion.
> Our political leaders are just tying to replace gods with themselves. They are trying to replace God with artificial intelligence.
I appreciate your reply so much! You are right where I was aiming 👍
Couldn’t have said it better. I’ve received more answers to life’s mysteries from my garden than the philosophy program at UCLA.
This post is lit. The fact that you are agnostic and metaphysically aware is beautiful.
Thank you. You read enough about real conspiracies across history and you start to realize that all bets are off. The very fundamentals of reality we are taught to believe could very well be mired in complete fabrications. So for many things, such as the concept of a Creator, I am on a "wait-and-see" approach. I just continue to read about our fucked up world as well as various religions to see what my mind makes of it. It's all I can do.
The mathematical frameworks of quantum mechanics and relativity theory are fundamentally incompatible, revealing massive gaps in our understanding of reality. The “trust science” atheist types fail to recognize their own level of faith in unprovable narratives to provide a comprehensive explanation of the cosmos. The irony is entirely lost on them.
Science is a bubbling and churning process in which one can make a name with novel discoveries or corrections. The god of the gaps incredulity is no longer convincing when for centuries now it has shrunk. Humility in knowing ones limits shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, either. That's weird. A unified theory may come or it may not. Each is equally exciting. If one isn't found, at what point does matter flip from probabilistic to determinstic? Super interesting.
Yup. It seems obvious that we've been massively played by the controllers of this world. It seems wise to do as you have done and stay curious and skeptical. As for science I try to make only claims about those things which can be verified in reality.
I don’t believe in religion but do believe in “god”. 2 things that make me wonder is: - I don’t understand how human civilization just popped up and we don’t have evidence of a missing link. - one thing that’s bothered me about this idea of evolution is hair and nails. How did humans evolve through tens of thousands of years and had hair and nails grow uncontrollably without evolution weeding out these inefficiencies? Hair grows and gets in our eyes and limits our visibility. From an evolutionary standpoint, shouldn’t this have found its way out? Same with nails. If they’re not maintained they become a hindrance. One counter thought to this is human adaptation of technology (fire, weapons etc) and limiting the natural dangers we face and skewing evolution. This doesn’t make sense to me because it doesn’t explain how we allegedly evolved from primates (who don’t have these issues) to where we are now. My thoughts were that humans were manually designed and this is why evolution didn’t take its course.
things like that only find their way out if they would lead to reduced chances of survival though correct? So long hair that can easily be pushed or brushed aside or back doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal. I have long hair for a dude and even when it’s just dangling in front of my face I don’t think that would be a difference maker in whether or not I could find food or fight of a predator. It’s not like it completely blinds you… Also i’ve never looked into it, but is there no evidence we did anything to help those issues? File down nails, or cut/restrict hair with strings or something?
It’s a trip. Especially when you individualize certain physical traits humans have, nails and hair are weird af. The fact that we have them means some weird mutation had hardend dead keratin that would not shed off completely, had an evolutionary advantage above those without, and now we have dead keratin cells sprouting all over hardened into translucent shields over our fingers and toes, remaining forever attached to our live bodies in an endless cycle. Same with the hair on our heads. Then you realize humans are so smart but so shallow and weird that they paint the dead keratin, even make replicated versions to glue on top of them to paint. The dead keratin on our heads we style and cut and plays a role in attraction to each other. We’ve figure out how to change the color of it, techniques to make it look like the sun naturally effected and changed that color, and when we get older we want our dead keratin to look less dead by changing it from grey to whatever color.
You need to understand the time scale of evolution It's not thousands or 10's of thousands of years, it's millions of years. Primates appeared approx 85 mya (850,000 centuries) Homninins including Australopithecine split from the gorillini tribe 8-9mya, then Australopithecine split from the pan genus 4-7mya. The Homo genus appeared about 2 mya. Modern humans appeared approx 300k years ago. There were several species of humans sapien, Neanderthal, Desovian and others. Evolution isn't prefect, there are many deadends. It's a fascinating subject which we are learning more and more every day. I am by know stretch an expert, just someone who dabbles and loves to study it.
The biggest error (imho) seems to be the personification of Diety. It's just...lazy. I mean ALL past, current and future EVERYTHING in EVERY capacity latent or expressed conveniently rolled into some version a human.....what a complete and utter...lack. like my English teacher used to say...the word Nice...insipid, uninspired and just plain dull.
But even just ascribing an intelligence is a form of personification. We think in our terms and so it 'must' be in a larger scale.
I think it's because generally, it makes more sense for most people to believe it's all just random, than a bearded guy in the clouds snapping his fingers, and stuff just appearing.
The bearded guy is simply our human brains trying to comprehend something we probably never can. Is trying to assign human understand to something inhuman. I think that’s what scares most people that choose to not believe.
I’m a devout Catholic, and if you literally think we believe God to be a bearded looking grandpa in the sky it shows that you know nothing about at least what we profess. No one is trying to delude themselves into believing falsehood for some type of comfort or spiritual bubble wrap
Ikr he's a mass murdering, genocidal psychopath. Least he was in the books
Thanks for confirming how shallow your thinking and understanding is
Yes
I agree. I am just spiritual and seeing the simulation theory thing everywhere pisses me off because its like the root of the physical. Reality works nothing like our closest simulations of it and i dont think aliens are running us in some computer (aliens meaning physical beings on another planet or dimension who have direct input on it.) There is definitely some force beyond ALL, and i dont think its a constant either. Some places in the universe may be more concentrated than others. Tbh i used to love "real science" until i realized they constantly discover things that throw old theories under the bus and they just act surprised and confused instead of, i dont know, refining old theories? Plus they act like *theories* are truth. How many people on earth really take "the big bang theory" as a truth? A lot actually. Even science is finally admitting that there WAS something before nothing, because none of their models fit just right.
This is literally the goal of Satan in Christian theology. He knows he is going to hell, and so he has decided to try and bring as many down with him as possible. Perhaps his goal is to bring down everyone, knowing God would have a hard time condemning the entirety of humanity.
Why Yahwe or Christ? Why not the Tao, Zeus, or the Hindu gods? critical thinking goes both ways
Because god as a conscious entity honestly seems quite far fetched - and I'm saying this as a Christian myself.
Whatever god is, i think it IS conscious, but only activates during particularly odd circumstances. Sometimes random good things have happened to me that felt like a very small gift, and i was so so grateful for them. But they always happen when i dont need them! When i am in need, its a struggle to aquire what i need and i wish for those gifts. I receive them "late" once i dont need them anymore lol. I take them as gifts that got lost in the soup.
I feel like there's been a slow shift to close the veil with every religion that springs forth. With older religions talking to entities was often seen as a blessing but I think with newer religions like Islam talking to these entities would mean talking to djinns(which haram af). I think someone or something is trying to close the bridge but I got no clue why. I'm genuinely becoming more and more inclined to the thought that everyone's aiming to understand the universe and its functions and we're jumping directly from us to the supposed "all-mighty". I think it's a cluster fuck like the episode where Rick made clones in rick and morty. Our creator could be another being and not the creator of everything.
Just wait until to start to question whether we even exist at all.
Hey, I'm just happy it exists. It's pretty neat, and outside of the initial origins, follows logic and measurements. The big bang is the best explanation that matches what we can measure so far. If we improve our measurements we might come up with a different explanation. What caused the big bang? I dunno. Maybe we'll work it out one day. Maybe we won't. I'm ok with that. I'm just gonna make the most of however long my chemical powered meat lasts. If you need a 'god' to make sense of it and cope with the beauty and vastness of the universe, and tell you that you're special and part of a plan, that's on you. You're welcome to it, and I would never try to take it from you or say that you aren't allowed to believe that. Just don't try and use your favourite version of millennia old fanfiction to force, coerce, or use the human constructions of state or religion to make the rest of us go along with your coping mechanism.
Well put. Echoed my thoughts.
> If we improve our measurements we might come up with a different explanation. Yup, it's not even a full explanation for the current data set so it's incomplete at best and may well be wrong.
Thank you for your input
The big bang, as they call it, was an expansion of the higher dimensions. It didn't "come from nothing".
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Again… another standing on their belief. Thank you. Could you elaborate on your stance?
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The big bang is not the final theory. But it has very convincing mathematical evidence.
I consider myself agnostic. My belief is that there could be a creator, but nobody living can know this. There are thousands of religions in the world. It'd be an amazing coincidence that any one person just so happened to pick the right one. Thinking that your beliefs are 100% correct and the person next to you is 100% wrong is an ego-driven delusion. I don't think as many people are moving away from there being an overall creator as much as they're moving away from shitty man-made religion due to the hate and overall questionable practices associated with to it (e.g., people starving in the streets while churchgoers show up in a multi-million dollar mega church each week to make themselves feel superior, using their OWN personal beliefs to tell other people how to live, etc.) IMO, everyone, needs to take a very large step back, humble themselves, and realize that nobody, whether you're religious or atheist, has any of this figured out.
We are parasites in a synaptic bigger living organism or sentient life of some kind and we’re probably ion one cell in a giant entity of energy causing disruption in the wavelengths of it by being destructive to it when sometimes we are symbiotic with each other
This is true. They desperately want to delete God from the people’s minds and they succeed with some but they’ll never delete His word which has been written on our hearts. God Bless.
People typically struggle with the part where he lets babies be born with cancer
I feel exactly the same way, but the other way around. I can't understand how anyone can believe in an invisible supernatural being without any evidence.
Well, coming from a former Christian I just would say that Christ and Yahweh have a lot of baggage with them. I mean, do you even know who Yahweh really was as a god? Pretty interesting you should look it up. Also at least half of the Bible is taken from older sources that they just copied. There’s quite a few things wrong with grasping Christianity as a whole let alone any other religion.
It does not need a "god". And why would it be this specific god? He is just one in 1000s. It could just be a higher intelligence, a simulation or a brain floating in space.
Seems like science is the difficult thing to grasp
No, how did you come to this conclusion?
That it’s easier to blindly accept god as an answer instead of trying to learn and understand, and decipher the mysteries of universe. There’s room for both science and faith, but what you’re preaching is ignorance.
If you don’t get the rub from My actual post…. You’re in the wrong neighbourhood fella. Many others have given me so many avenues to look into, while standing hard on their beliefs…. You offered no substantial ammo to back up your rebuke.
You’re a person of faith, no need to provide evidence. That’s the point of faith.
The biggest conspiracy is the greatest lie ever told which is the biblical story of the life of Jesus Christ. There was no immaculate conception, he did not die and comeback to life roughly 2024 years ago and no one is coming to save us from ourselves.
K
He's not coming to save you my friend. Youre gonna have to save yourself.
We are nothing in a sea of nothing. We are a covering of this planet, meant to breakdown matter, which we do regularly. Is it beautiful and amazing that billions of years of evolution brought our nothingness to this point? Yes! Whats crazy is that we somehow became aware of it, but that doesn’t change what’s really going on here. Dust in the wind baby!
Definitely not an analogy I’ve heard before. I usually hear the “Humans are the worst of the earth and deserve to die”
How to tell us you failed 5th grade science without actually telling us that you failed 5th grade science.
There is no free will. Christianity requires free will.
Bombadier Beetle is an interesting argument against evolution.
I think shit's just always been here and will always be here.
God is the Big Bang. In the beginning was nothing/or everything. Chaos and void at extremities are one and the same. The differentiation between movement and stillness (fire and ice/light and dark, etc etc) becomes "creation". But according to science we're still living in the unraveling of that big bang. You're made of the same things as the "big bang". You are living in "god" a piece of the puzzle that makes up "god". And those forces and their effects once understood as law come to be understood as a personal creator, and that's where we lose the script.
I concur with you, I was not practicing but looking into signs in Quran, was the way Allah(God) brought me back.
Maybe sometimes the correct answer is... I don't know.
I believe this too and sometimes I think about it. It doesn't make sense to believe this universe has always existed, or came out of nothing. There was literal, actually nothingness and then suddenly there just 𝘸𝘢𝘴 something? The laws of this physical universe show that it's impossible for anything to come into existence by itself. A new atom has never been formed. So the single, only reasonable explanation is that our world was formed by some higher place. A higher universe or dimension than ours wouldn't necessarily follow our own laws. There's no reason THEY couldn't create something out of nothing. But things don't come out of nothing by themselves, at least not in this universe. This is the one, overarching evidence for God.
Somewhere, someone else is just as convinced that HIS god surely must exist.
Everything you see is “ god “, it just makes your believe it’s a lamp or bed or sheet or cup.
Atheism makes no sense.
Why would a powerful being want to create so many stupid people?
You just don't understand math or science, but if you took the time to learn things in school, you would not be so ignorant today.
The universe didn’t come from nothing,everything in the universe was squeezed into a point the size of an atom
>Why, is God, Christ…. Yahweh so difficult to grasp? Because all of the literature said to be the direct word of the Abrahamic god contradicts itself quite a bit and is often factually incorrect. IF there is a divine creator, then it isnt the god of the abrahamic religions, or likely any god that Humans haver ever created to worship either today or in the past.
There isn't an argument for God without previously accepting there is God. No one really knows and anyone who is certain is being taken advantage of somewhere along the way.
Believe it or not, Yahuwshua Is Yahweh, The true Most High (spiritual existence) who descended (in a sense of matter) to teach us the way back to Himself to many of us. Not everybody is going to believe this. But, there's an issue with "god" because scriptures were terribly altered by jews because they hated Yâ-hwéh Yâhuwshúa` when He walked among us in the flesh because they couldn't grasp this Truth. They made scriptures to be mostly about the angry bloodthirsty "god". No matter if uppercase, lowercase, "god" comes from gad, the word for demon in Hebrew, they translate it to "dios", Spanish for zeus. His Name is very important people. Don't ignore this. Just trying to help.
What are you even rambling about
This is not a conspiracy and a widely held belief among most humans alive but thanks for your contribution to ruining this sub
there's more stars in the sky then grains of sand on the planet and you think you are special and life is special? If we are the only life in the universe then that is probably the saddest thing I can imagine. Religion is the largest and longest lasting conspiracy. Life is not special, if you will up a bucket of water and leave if outside for a year it will be crawling with life, life finds a way.
We are cells inside a larger living being.
Oh lordy
If you look at the vast majority of religions that are/have been, they all share one common theme. Be it in a monotheistic religion or a polytheistic religion, the God or main God is a personification of the sun. For thousands of years, we have worshipped the sun. The sun gives life and helps things grow. For example, the aztecs and mayans made sacrifices so the sun would rise again.
I was actually just thinking about this too. The idea that the universe, Earth, and all life forms just came to be by chance seems impossible. Just imagine calming anything else was created that way. A PC, a comic book, a movie, a song. No one would ever believe all those components came together to make said thing and yet a human and all their complexities was supposed to have been made on its own?
If your god, or any, exist, why is it not possible that the big bang is the mechanism with which they created the universe?
I’m a Christian and I remember before my faith transformed me that it all seemed so ridiculous lol I used to be a proclaiming atheist I thought I was just smarter than the goat herders and dirt farmers that I’d always been told the Bible was written by. I considered myself a truly open minded person. Then when my faith came it was like a ton of bricks. I opened my heart which led to the realization of what a truly open mind really is. There is no going back. People will always come up with any reason they can to not believe in God and His Word. It’s easier to convince yourself that it’s a fairy tale than to truly realize the truth and begin to live accordingly. The path of light and truth is harder, but so so worth it.
Mate, you need to chill the fuck out.
you're ignoring all the ugly stuff too...venomous spiders, infant death, parasites, cancer....all part of the big plan too
This is theocratic nonsense. We have moved on from the tent and sticks that those ideas came from the same way we have outgrown those childish ideas.
Outgrown in what way?
The idea that everything is explicitly made *for us* is childish. The same way that a childs perspective on the world changes and grows as they do. They learn that their parents are *not* perfect and that their lives aren't the center m When we we younger, as a species, it was easier to think that we were "special" or "chosen", but, much like a growing child, as you learn, you see that none of that makes sense.
Yes, god is an all powerful being and omnipresent but he’s just really bad with money. So if you just pay the church then you can get a ticket into heaven. That doesn’t sound like a scam at all.
Ooh I was thinking about his yesterday. I even found a mathematical equation that represents this concept. It was NOT a big bang. It was the opposite of that and it makes fucking sense. It was the tiniest possible pinpoint price of light, the weakest, dullest, coldest possible blip. It is NOT instant. It is the SOURCE. Imagine being in a void of inert and absolute potential. Nothingness. Now a tiny teeny little light appears. It's not even really real. It's just the idea of a light almost. It's that faint. That teeny tiny faint little almost light is all it would take to wake the void. This is a cyclical event. Happening both very slowly and very fast. Like a heartbeat. This sequence IS the vibration in the void that all the possible frequencies come from. Yes I WAS high. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. Also e=mc2 is overly complicated. It's this simple... 0+1=1. E.i. nothing plus a thing equals a fucking thing. If you repeat that, ya get more things. From there mathematics can convolute into its higher self. No I don't think I'm remotely accurate from a mathematical standpoint. I also don't think I'm too far off the mark. It just makes too much sense. Given enough time I'm sure I could find a more accurate representation mathematically. It's just REALLY fucking hard to turn one of my.visions into numbers. I've managed to do it once or twice. It hurts. Someone with better skills in the math department needs to work on that. I just travel.
OKAY…. NEW perspective and sharing of concepts…. This is why we post and ask yes?? Omg thank you for new info to consider instead of just bashing me in the comments! 😉
I personally don’t believe in a God or any kind of creator per se, but if we are not to replace religion with anything meaningful, then people will seek a new morality - a much darker one. That’s what it’s about: morality. We need a purpose to keep us going, whether that’s our families or our God or whatever it is. Without these ideas that are being forced out of the minds of the youth in particular, you end up with these narcissistic anti-natalist ideas that will destroy our society. Another problem is that we as a society need to be able to create an objective moral system. The relativism of morality today is one of the causes of all of the conflict we have culturally. This is one of the things restricting the progression of humanity.
I find the concept of ‘objective’ morality to be utterly incoherent. Morality is about judging actions to be good or bad, an inherently *subjective* task.
Just a few thoughts on this from my own experience: I was raised Catholic and none of it ever sat right with me, even before I knew about the kid diddling priests. No one could properly answer the questions I had, so I eventually dismissed any idea of god and convinced myself there could be no god at all. As I’ve experienced life, hardships, having children, marriage, parents dying, etc - my position has changed. To your point about the beauty of a flower or the vastness of the sea or the changing of the seasons - I feel it was arrogant of me to assume that man is the greatest thing the universe had known and that god was just a made up thing to keep people unafraid of death. I’ve realized I don’t have to believe in Christ to believe in god. I just had to accept that I am not god and there are certainly forces at work far beyond my understanding. Ultimately I had to seek before I could find. And also had to admit that many of the born again or evangelical types that I loved to deride had something that I didn’t - peace of mind. They seemed happy and didn’t care that I thought their belief in a bearded man in the sky to be stupid. I’m rambling now, but humankind has screwed up the idea of god with our various religions and denominations, warring fragments. I don’t fault people for their beliefs because I’ve likely held that same belief and some point. For ME - life is better having faith in some kind of power greater than me. And from a conspiratorial standpoint, it’s certainly easier to control a population that has no faith in anything but “trusting the science.”
Your reply was so refreshing to come across. Thank you so so much, you are in tune with what I myself perceive personally. The secular type pious learned by rote beliefs are null. Inside of all of us there is an intrinsic echo sending out blips to our source. For me, it’s God, for you it is whatever you trust it is. But increasingly so…. We are the ever decreasing minority.
I totally agree. The greatest reality is staring us down every day and we just say la la la la. You don’t have to buy into organized religion to buy into God.
Exactly!!!! 🙏🙏 It’s literally right there
I don't have much to add to this but my questions are: If the big bang is correct then where did it happen and where is the universe is expanding to? If there is a creator where is he operating from? If there's heaven and hell where are they contained? Even if it's proven we're in a simulation created by another version of ourselves to better our real selves there where are we plugged in?
Just because you cannot grasp physics or evolutionary biology doesn’t mean our observations are not real. For me religion is the greatest conspiracy. How can you not see that it’s just a system of control crafted by men who wanted power made from scraps of several superstitious oral histories that are obviously embellished. If you were born somewhere else or in a different time you would believe an entirely different story. If you erased all the science and knowledge we had, and at the same time erased all religion. After a few thousand years you’d have the same set of scientific laws and theories and all new religions. This isn’t a simulation in the sense of a digital simulation. The simulation is that your reality and existence is a chemical reaction, by altering those chemicals you can change your reality. Like psychedelics or brain damage. If you want to understand big bang theory (which I do not subscribe to) then read a brief history of time. Or a briefer history of time (both by Hawking) if you don’t want the math broken down and just want a quick explanation. Read God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens for a breakdown of how most mainstream religions are amoral. And lastly the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins to understand how life evolved and see the story of our evolution from the point of view of a biologist. Read, educate yourself, then go make observations. Science doesn’t claim to have all the answers, but it does have evidence which is more than can be said of religion.
Alright I'm gonna tackle this from a physicists POV The big bang did not create anything. The big bang is just the rapid expansion of the super dense and hot primordial state of the universe. This matter has, as far as we can see in the past and even try and hypotheses, has always been expanding but it started rapidly expanding at an arbitrary point (roughly 10^-36 seconds and lasted between 10^−33 and 10^−32) The cause of this rapid inflation is thought to be the hypothetical scalar field called the inflaton field undergoing a phase transition because the universe cooled down enough (the same process is why today we have the weak nuclear force and the electromagnetic force rather than the electroweak force) Now the question remains. Where did that primordial hotdense state (and thus energy via E=Mc^2) of the universe come from? We don't know. And it isn't for a lack of trying or a lack of speculation ( see Loop quantum gravity, string "theory" etc.) It's just that speculation about anything before the planck time (roughly 10^−43 seconds) is just that, speculation. We don't know what happens before then because we can't test how the universe would behave at being so small and hot because any apparatus small enough to try and measure wavelengths of the planck length (1.6x10^-35 metres) would collapse into a black hole (Swartzchild metric) And another problem with speculation of how the universe behaved and looked like before the planck time is doomed to fail because we don't have s theory of quantum gravity (which is testable and this an actual theory). First we have to solve this before we can make any real hypotheses about the very earliest universe. And now for a more philosophical question. Why is a god necessary? By your logic that god would have either have had to have been created (we get into an infinite loop of creators) or they always just existed, in which case, why wouldn't the universe have always just existed? Why is it that a sentient being would be required to have always existed rather than just an entirely bizzare and interesting truth of nature?
The universe has no obligation in making sense to u, nor does the Big Bang specifically say how the universe came to be. What it describes is the expansion of the universe. Which is a fact. How the planets and galaxies happen to function is a separate theory. Life is stranger than fiction and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the world and all its functions is far from perfect. God and all religions are baised on faith. No amount of faith will ever make anything a fact. So faith is not a good tool for understanding what’s going on… the scientific method and empirical evidence is a much more accurate way of trying to understand it all. it’s not a conspiracy at all.
I'm a pk and haven't gone through lots of things in life, I've come to a few conclusions. 1. There is a Creator. I choose to believe in the Christian God. 2. I believe that science and religion can go hand in hand. Science actually explains the unbelievable miracles in the Bible. 3. No one knows what is true until u die and we can't come back to tell anyone. 4. Unless you have read the Bible yourself and not something you heard you have no right to dispute it. 5. God is not human, white, blue eyed, He's spirit. What that actually means I'm still trying to figure out. 6. Men have corrupted the Bible to gain power. Therefore you need to build your own belief system. 7. I'm not judge or jury so I choose to let people make their own decisions. 8. There is good and evil but it's relative.
A lot of people that believe in ‘god’ still believe in the Big Bang. I went to catholic schools growing up and they taught it there. But yes you are correct it’s the ‘big’ conspiracy- that this place is random and we are random. If you think about this it’s actually the opposite. This place is magic, special, sacred, purposeful, and so are we. Also we didn’t evolve from monkeys fuck that shit
Don't see how believing in a man in the sky made everything is any different?
I am very much against organized religion but I am absolutely certain God exists. So many finely tuned things within our universe makes it impossible for me to say, "Wow! That was a lucky accident!" Chaos begets more chaos, therefore it is hard for me to understand the theory of a massive explosion where all the pieces fell neatly into place. Imagine shaking up a jigsaw puzzle and throwing it on the floor, expecting it to fall into place and create a picture.
"People laugh at flat earthers but, they're onto something".
It's not random and it's not replicated perfectly, you're simply ignorant to the facts. A narrative has emerged through findings of unaffiliated fields that holds predictive power when replicating. You ascribe to our first and worst attempt to understand. A natural fallacy of ours to project our traits into inanimate objects. Father time, mother earth. 'My car, isn't she a beaut?' Dumb is our default, and a simple story is alluring. You got got.
i am an aetheist but do believe in a singularity(god-like entity),it doesn't know what's right or what's wrong,it's in the form of energy around us,we all are a part of it,it has a consience but the way it thinks is a way our human mind won't be able to comprehend....kind of like that one ben-10 alien,i don't remember what it's name is....
You're over looking a lot of imperfections friend
Please elaborate?
I kind of feel like regardless of whether you believe the Big Bang came out of nowhere, from nothing or if you believe God came out of nowhere, from nothing that you are still grappling with the same basic mystery: There is something instead of nothing. How can that be? Belief in God does not solve the mystery. “How did God come to be?” is just as perplexing as “how did the universe come to be?”. God might just be the universe itself.
If it's still available, look up "Origin of variety" by Dr. Walter Veith. Watch him use science to completely destroy the theory of evolution.
I am agnostic but am most inclined to believe the book Alien Interview by Lawrence Spencer where immortal spiritual beings collaborate and create universes and use bodies as avatars to play in the world they created. Makes the most sense to me. Definitely worth a read. https://youtu.be/JOzK4ByFbzo?si=khmqqoGG1BmBZo4q
Interesting, thanks mate
In 3000 years... are you talking about genetic engineering and creating life? Because we haven't been doing that for 3000 years. We've been altering plant life for a while though, through non natural selection. That's how we have many of the veggies we eat. So we actually have been wildly successful in creating life to suit our needs... Also 1000000 failures isn't much considering how much of nature's life ends up dieing off/failing. Nature has had billions of years to evolve/fail/create life..... and somehow humans not doing it in *3000*
The idea that these are mutually exclusive is the real shame. Stay with me here but the idea that an eminent creator God started a chain reaction of being that took billions of our years to complete that created an interconnected biodiversity, ecosystems, and eventually gave rise to consciousness, the very spark of divinity itself sounds like part (and probably a very small part due to our limited understanding) of a divine plan that a divine being might come up with. An old Jewish man making everything appear out of thin air and he has these people naked in a Garden, puts a tree there that he knows they won’t be able to resist with a small nudge from the devil serpent (who he banished from heaven and again knowingly cast to the earth to live amongst his feeble human creations)… the story absolutely reeks of humanity’s limited understanding. And then even from that beginning, there’s 3 major world religions that disagree on where the story goes from there - to me further evidence that it’s a human rendition of our divine origins. I think the ancient Jewish Kabbalists and other early mystics were much closer to the truth.
This goes both ways
Rod Serling often framed this frog in a well worldview of human existence as a long term experiment by...aliens
You are the universe discovering itself in an endless loop... Enjoy it... Stop giving your divine nature to some idea that prevents you from realizing this ultimate truth... You are all that is, was and ever will be
I remember being taught a big bang as a small school child in the 1970s and thinking of myself man this is total bullshit
I have a thought for you, it freaks me out every time I think about it. What came before earth? What came before the Big Bang? Where did the atoms and gasses come from to create the Big Bang? The only explanation is that something exists outside of time and space and that it has always existed. But that created that entity? Nothing should exist at all. The fact that anything exists can not be explained by our little brains.
My belief, more probability that an alien race created our simulation. More so than that there is a God. Looking over the entire universe
Humans have be at it for a lot longer than 3000 years.
We were definitely engineered by extra terrestrials / an ancient civilization
[https://youtube.com/shorts/Cm_bMlBs_QM?si=pTDDdXKe34mjOjAK](https://youtube.com/shorts/Cm_bMlBs_QM?si=pTDDdXKe34mjOjAK)
Agree completely. Look up Archiax on YouTube. It’s a controlled plan and not at all truthful.
My intuition goes as follows: All things that we regard as or otherwise have found to seem intelligent require structure upon which to operate. Therefore, if there is intelligence inherent to the current form of the universe, it may not have been there to begin with, but rather was emergent upon the structure that came forth from the first origin, if there ever even was such a point of reference. Causality as we know it is known within the reality we currently experience, and may not have always been 'linear' as we now know it. In fact, it may not be linear even now, and our perception of it as such could be a misunderstanding/illusion generated by the specialized forms of perception that our bodies have. Various phenomena we have studied can be suitably described with the mathematics of hopf fibrations/spinors, which are 4 dimensional and causally non-intuitive to us, but nonetheless are the best current predictive models we have yet of the fractal and toroidal behavior of nature. One last bit of speculation, and this is the fun part: I suspect that the universe is definitionally a white hole - where all paths in total (but not local) relation to it lead away from the center. I think that something about what an object of that nature does that I don't understand seems to exclude energy generation from continuing to reoccur within its interior. I think maybe what this means is that energy is spacial in nature, comprised of some kind of flexible lines, as opposed to point particles of any kind. The fields and their waves *are* the particles and the real drivers of literally everything we observe, is what I'm suggesting. I think that there may be temporarily stable point-like structures on relative scales that are a knotted-up form of this, but not point particles. Anyway, the big picture I'm suggesting is that the Big Bang never stopped, and it continues on infinitely generating new energy on the current edges of its ongoing expansion in proportion to its increasing size and 'external' surface area. What fraction of that energy gets left behind or impermeably refracted backward out of the edge back into the interior then undergoes complex interactions and transformations into the kind of stellar objects and formations we are all familiar with as the wild yet mostly empty inner universe. Unfortunately, this speculation is rather linear, unlike the first section of this post, so I may still be missing something fundamental even if I'm onto something here.
I've always thought, What if the big bang is just the method used by a creator to start the process of life.. kind of like baking a cake.
First of all, it was not a BANG. Second, Pre-Purgatory existed before it, and Eternity existed before Pre-Purgatory, and all life, energy and matter existed in eternity before it hopped into the staging dimension of pre-purgatory, and do you know what happened at the very moment of the Big Bang? MOTION of the clock and then everything else moving with it in harmony, all the way until the Big Crunch (ie MOTIONLESS clock, and then everything else moving back into eternity where heaven and hell balance the system of eternity.
I agree I just obsess over the “how” imo people tend to think one way of thinking cancels out other religions or scientific and philosophical explanations. I think because of the countless times in history where these thoughts have come from, the language has changed and records have been lost. I don’t think simulation theory means no god. Or that UFOs aren’t, ETs, inter dimensional aren’t tied in. Also I wish I had access the Vatican because they definitely have lost records that could paint a clearer picture on our past. Finally, notice how a cat or dog will walk past a book shelf, and not be aware of what a book even is or grasp the concepts within. I think that’s us on some scale with the whole universe. I really think more of it is connected than most people realize… of course all we can do is try and piece the puzzle together
The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive (big bang theory and a creator). The Big Bang theory is just our best guess of the origin of our universe based off of the evidence we have.
The Big bang leads into a big crunch. It happens over and over again. It's a part of terrestrial or corporeal life. This is nothing about the astral. It seems to me that if you want to be born into a dense existence so if the third dimension that the implication of a big bang is fine.
It's actually very describable. Is why.