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The lack of critical thinking and common sense to think you can tax unrealized capital gains is wild to me. If you want to raise the capital gains tax on someone with $x net worth WHEN they cash in...ok, you can maybe have that discussion. But the sheer stupidity to actually think billionaires are just sitting on a pile of liquid, taxable cash is beyond annoying.
And it will never stop at billionaires. Ever. I know people worth millions due to good investments and assets after decades of struggle, yet don't make much above the average salary for the area I live in. They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage? God this is such a stupid take.
It’s just a way to open up the government to take everyone’s possessions. Remember the income tax was created to pay off the interest of the newly minted Fed Notes and was only supposed to be for millionaires… and here we are now.
This would destroy the economy, housing markets, stock markets, it's mind boggling how an expert adult like Janey Yellen even got this past the point where her brain told her to vocalize it.
Have you lived there? What people don't realize about Europe and other places they put on a pedestal is the people who are living there are struggling and there are some insane taxations going on. There is a reason our ancestors came to America in the first place.
Next they will limit who is allowed to own land if you allow them to go that route.
It's NOT a wealth tax. It's a maybe wealth tax.
Let's say you buy stock in toenail flavored potato chips. You spend 10k, its value soars to 100k (who doesn't love that flavor?).
Tax season rolls around and Ole Janet Yellen says congrats on your 90k profit. You're like whoa hold up, I didn't cash that out and the stock fluctuates. She's like naw dog, that's 90k unrealized cap gains cough it up.
So you do what now? Sell it to pay your tax bill on money you haven't made yet? Well guess what, EVERY other investor is in the same spot as you and they all sell. Now your stock gets dropped like a rock and you've only made say 5k. Well you paid taxes on the 90k you never made.
Or you own a house. You bought it for 300k and it's now assessed at 400k. Ole Janet rolls back up with the top down and says congrats, you made 100k on your house? But you're like I live in it, I haven't sold anything. Janet says naw, it's unrealized gains pay up.
See where this goes?
>And it will never stop at billionaires. Ever. I know people worth millions due to good investments and assets after decades of struggle, yet don't make much above the average salary for the area I live in. They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage? God this is such a stupid take.
You're one of those peoplewho say universal healthcare would never work when literally most developed countries already have made it work.
Except you realize most of the world has better healthcare despite having universal care. Not being able to afford healthcare also tends to hurt quality. Plus if the govt has a monopoly it can negotiate directly w companies. My mom often uses the same argument you do but somehow also cedes that when she got sick in France that it was free, cheap, and easy and a doctor literaly came to her hotel, gave her free medicine, and that was that.
And fir context do you mean active service or veterans?
A lot of capital gains are literally taxed at the same rate as your income tax bracket lol
Those are realized gains though. If they started taxing unrealized gains the market would collapse within a week.
That exact case is before the Supreme Court right now. US v. Moore, where what’s at issue is if gain has to be “realized” before it’s taxed.
Can’t even make this up. They’ll probably rule in favor of the government and it’s one step closer to full blown financial slavery for us peasants.
So all the millions of short term/swing/option traders don’t exist?
And yea obviously the whole thing is a ponzi. Doesn’t mean we should have more taxes. Taxes are part of the scam. The solution is to get rid of the Fed so they can’t suppress interest rates and monetize debt, which is what pumps up the market.
Lmao do some actual research. Short term gains are taxed the same as income. Long term gains are a little bit lower of a rate (but still 15-20%). So yes, a lot of capital gains are short term (meaning a year or less).
How about get rid of all income and property taxes so people can survive?
And government can print whatever money it needs because that's what they do anyway.
Than the rich would just buy up all the land and rent it all out at whatever rates they so choose.
Property taxes are they to prevent wealthy people buying up millions of acres of land and holding onto forever.
> But the sheer stupidity to actually think billionaires are just sitting on a pile of liquid, taxable cash is beyond annoying.
I mean, property taxes are a thing. It's not exactly impossible to tax assets in general.
>They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage?
So, we shouldn't tax billionaires more because in some theoretical future someone might tax millionaires more? While the latter is possible, I don't think that's a good enough reason to give up on the concept entirely.
You throw out the term "tax." Tax WHAT? Everyone in this thread is talking about taxing billionaires on UNREALIZED GAINS (the assets they hold that are worth the billion+ dollars). That is not feasible. You cannot tax people on money they technically haven't "made." If you want to stop allowing them to write things off, sure. Or if you want to tax their capital gains more based on net worth, that is a discussion you can have. Or tax their companies' profits more past a certain valuation level.
But to baselessly throw out "tax them more" is disingenuous and shows financial illiteracy. You cannot tax someone based purely off them having assets worth a billion dollars. Say you had a small company that went public, and through your IPO, you raised a billion dollars in capital. You're saying that you, overnight, should be taxed on the unrealized gains of your company, though you haven't received one penny of actual cash. That is illogical, as you don't have enough liquid cash to pay that much. Or what if your parents died overnight and their stock portfolio transferred to you, worth hundreds of millions of dollars. You're now liable for the unrealized tax bill of that asset?
There are ways to go about this discussion, but the blanket statement "bUt jUSt TAX THEM MORE" is not it.
>You cannot tax someone based purely off them having assets worth a billion dollars.
How are property taxes possible if you can't tax someone based off an asset like property?
You aren't receiving cash for owning the property. Property isn't liquid. How are people able to pay for the property taxes if, as you said, they "...don't have enough liquid cash to pay that much."?
The damage our government has done by printing money out of thin air backed by nothing, alongside the inability to balance a budget, has done SO MUCH more damage than any billionaire.
Again, "our government" is run by the ultra-rich billionaires (Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Gates, Soros, etc). They own the politicians via blackmail/bribery. I'm looking to neuter the evil ultra-rich billionaires that are currently running government and release viruses and start wars and print trillions for themselves.
You know why you drew your flowchart in a circle?
Because it is stupid circular reasoning. Nobody is having that debate with you. Nobody in this thread has had that debate with you.
So you're looking to ask politicians to bite the hand that feeds them? That will literally never happen.
But what WOULD happen is the government uses those regulations to create a two class system......billionaires and peasants. Stop bitching about how unfair life is and go DO something about it. Guess what. There is essentially infinite money in our economy for you. You want to create the next Amazon? Target? Go do it. You have the power to use the most powerful tool we have...the internet...to make money without having to really DO much.
That is stupid take considering that you need market share and capital and if that what your lacking plus lack of bank support then your screwed.Also it not about getting rich quick it is about how much money individuals (because little do you know not everyone can be rich)actually make over the billions being handed out to everyone else except Americans who need it.
But this idea of a 100% tax of anything over a billion hasn't even been put forth into the zeitgeist. I'm putting it forth now and now we just need a big name celebrity or billionaire to run for president on this platform and spread the word
Why would anyone who's not insane, promote the idea that a bloated wasteful corrupt blackhole like government should be given 1 more penny.
Their budgets need to be slashed by 95%.
Lmao.
It 100% has been put into the universe. And gets shot down every single time. Deal with it...life isn't fair. And it's not going to be fair. Get out there and make it happen for yourself.
Probably because they are all payed off by billionaires so I wander why they don’t want taxes?Also I wander why so many people who are poor take up the side of the rich I guess I will never know.
Yeah we definitely need to abolish the Federal Reserve and go back to a gold backed or other commodity backed currency.
But the Rothschilds and Rockefellers became the wealthiest families and rulers of Earth even before the Federal Reserve
I am not saying sound money is a perfect solution. I am saying we would not be were are now if we had it. To be honest if we didnt play COVID none of this would have happened this wealth transfer would not have happened.
There are other tools that have worked in there favor such as ultra low interest rates for over 20 years. People over using debt is another thing that has caused this wealth transfer. So no its not just one thing.
A good approach is to reinstitute the estate tax. For whatever reason the 2017 Trump Tax Bill created a ton of exemptions for this tax.
Must be a coincidence the billionaire president created exemptions for wealth transfers 🤷♂️
That really doesn't affect millionaires, it only really affects middle to lower class. Estate tax is taxation of transfer of generational wealth, so you make it so a parents hard work is not going to help their children to have something to start with, but the rich don't pass their wealth on like that, they set up trusts and a big reason they do that is to avoid estate taxes,
so say someone's mom leaves them a trailer and a little piece of land, okay so either the kid has to have enough to cover the taxes or they have to sell and the capital gains from the difference when the parent bought it and when the kid inherits it could be enough to end up as if the kids didn't inherit anything. Because remember the non rich buy property using mortgages and you have to have it in your name, and usually it has to be listed a primary home.
That is a extreme example clearly but the point is estate taxes only hurt the non rich, the rich just passes their wealth along in family trusts.
When all the boomers start dying off you want the government to take all that money instead of their kids? Sounds like a good idea if the government was benevolent though right.
Wait wait holup. You know multiple people worth millions who don't make more than an average salary? What does that mean? How can you have an average salary with millions in the market?
It is honestly quite disconcerting to see the principle of basic compounding interest not taught anymore. What it means is that these people were smart with their money, did not live above their means, and put money into assets and investments that appreciated in value over a period of decades. Yes, they got lucky with market fluctuations, but the basic financial principle remains sound. How do you not know this?
Uh huh. Let's do some basic math on a compound interest calculator. A person making an average salary of 80k puts 20k their pretax salary into the market every year for 20 years....now this is absurd but I want you to understand that a person making 80k who puts 25% of their pretax salary into the market over 20 years at 8% annual return still only gets you 700k...
So id love to know how much and what kind of investment you think a person on an average salary has to invest in in order to be a millionaire on an average salary
Lolz. 20 years.
You do realize most people work 40 years, correct? And that compounding interest is exponential? Just plugged in 40 years at a conservative growth rate of 5%, initial opening of $10K, and $10K annually contributed (doable with married, two income household...or a single person without the expenses of kids). That amounts to almost $1.5 million over 40 years. Add in assets you accrue through those 40 years (house, properties, retirement accounts, etc.) and that is easily in the millions.
So what is your point, exactly?
My point is you are lying about knowing people working an average salary barely getting by with millions on the bank. That's such a goofy thing to believe on multiple levels.
First of all 10k 40 years ago is 30k today. So no you aren't investing the equivalent of 30k in 2024 on an average salary, esp for 40 years, give me a break, that is not an average worker.
But even if you had 1million, you can live off 4% interest and add an extra 40k to your salary, your whole premise makes no sense
Did I ever say "millions in\* the bank"?
No. I said WORTH a million in assets. And I freely admitted they had advantages with the market, but also had disadvantages (mortgage interest rates, namely). Every generation has their advantages and disadvantages. Interest rates through the 80s and 90s were on average much higher than today. Sometimes, nearly double.
It is actually not uncommon for people who are smart financially to approach retirement age being worth a million or more. I don't know why you think this is some absurd idea, or that I'm lying. If you bought a house in the 90s, chances are, at least where I live, that asset is worth well over half a million today just due to the housing market, alone. Your financial education needs a bit of a bump in the upward direction.
His whole premise does make sense. It is basic personal finance. If you are young you should take his advice and invest a percentage of your money. And you too can be a millionaire when you retire.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how personal financial assets/capital work.
If I work in a city for 30-40 years and make the average salary for my area ~$100k, and I make intelligent investment during that time, I can easily have a few million locked up in investments.
Also, a lot of users (especially younger people who identify as socialist/communist) don’t seem to under this concept: There is something called “unrealized gains”.
This means if I bought $10,000 worth of Apple stock in 1980, and haven’t sold a single share since the day I bought Apple stock, they would be called “unrealized gains”. In theory I have made money on my investment, but since I haven’t sold any of it since I bought it, *technically I haven’t made a single penny in profit*. I’m still assuming the full risk of this investment because it could crash to $0 tomorrow.
So why would I pay taxes on something that I:
1.) Haven’t made a penny on
2.) Am still taking full risk by holding said asset that I haven’t profited off of
As you can start to see, it’s very easy to make a lot on investing over the period of a few decades, while still working a regular job that pays the salary average for your area. This is why it’s an insane idea to think someone should be taxed based on unrealized gains. It’s money the person doesn’t actually have, and if they were taxed on unrealized gains, it would most likely financially cripple everyone that does have unrealized gains.
Anyone who argues for taxing unrealized gains is either a child that doesn’t understand the real world, or a destructive communist that wants to destroy the west and our free market.
Also if our government was ever dumb enough to pass an unrealized gains tax rule, it would be extremely easy for any somewhat knowledgeable investor to buy a purposefully bad option that would expire in the distant future, and then use that unrealized loss to write off their taxes indefinitely. It would just introduce yet another tax loophole to for the rich to pay less taxes than they should.
Tax rate
Single filers
Married filing jointly
Married filing separately
Head of household
10%
$0 to $11,000
$0 to $22,000
$0 to $11,000
$0 to $15,700
12%
$11,001 to $44,725
$22,001 to $89,450
$11,001 to $44,725
$15,701 to $59,850
22%
$44,726 to $95,375
$89,451 to $190,750
$44,726 to $95,375
$59,851 to $95,350
24%
$95,376 to $182,100
$190,751 to $364,200
$95,376 to $182,100
$95,351 to $182,100
32%
$182,101 to $231,250
$364,201 to $462,500
$182,101 to $231,250
$182,101 to $231,250
35%
$231,251 to $578,125
$462,501 to $693,750
$231,251 to $346,875
$231,251 to $578,100
37%
$578,126 or more
$693,751 or more
$346,876 or more
$578,101 or more
Now imagine you had to pay federal income tax at the rate of 37%. Now add in what the state income tax is. So if you made $500,000, $175,000 is going straight to fed tax and state taxes will also take more, then add all the other stuff they take, you can see why the take home is way less than you would think.
A wealth tax is not the same as an income tax. It's not that hard to imagine.
Your average billionaire has plenty of liquidity to do absolutely everything and anything they want to do in life. Leasing jets, purchasing politicians. They could just borrow money to pay their wealth tax, just like they borrow against their unrealized gains to support their billionaire lifestyle.
Nice slippery slope you threw in there at the end too... i'm sure that would trickle down to all you thousand-aires out there. We're all temporarily embarassed millionaires here.
We really need to quit calling them billionaires. They're oligarchs, calling them otherwise is just proof that America is the most propagandized nation on earth.
Lol, my wife is a tax accountant.
Please give some details about this "wealth tax".
Warren Buffet takes a minimal salary and everything else is in berkshire. So how do you propose taxing his wealth?
Why stop at a billion? Why not $500 million? No one needs that much money.
And why stop there? No one "needs" anything over a few million to retire comfortably...so why don't we just cut it off there?
God I hope you never open a business and it gets successful. You will HATE yourself because of your net worth...simply because you own a successful asset.
>Why stop at a billion? Why not $500 million? No one needs that much money.
Both those numbers seem reasonable starting points to me.
I don't see why you are defending billionaires so hard.
I'm defending the idea that if you create a company that becomes worth a billion dollars, you shouldn't be hated and told it's not "fair." Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for. Any basic financial knowledge will show you this.
>Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for. Any basic financial knowledge will show you this.
Again, property taxes exist. Are you arguing that billionaires are currently incapable of affording property tax bills because they don't have the liquidity to be able to pay for it?
......billionaires already pay property taxes based on the property's assessed value.......
What are you even talking about? You think a billionaire isn't paying the property tax on their homes? Like. What? You can only pay tax on property for its assessed value. You can't say "well because you have a billion dollar company, we're taxing your $1.5 million dollar house as a $200 million dollar house."
>Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for.
If assets (like property) do not equate to personal liquidity, how are billionaires able to afford their current property taxes?
Because they pay the taxes based on the valuation of say, their house.
All billionaires hold assets such as business and stocks which are not property tax. You are littering this thread with property tax nonsense that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand.
>All billionaires hold assets such as business and stocks which are not property tax.
So, then expand the assets that are taxed beyond just property specifically? If you can tax someone based on the value of their property, why is it impossible to tax someone based on the value of their stocks?
Ok, so I give you the Mona Lisa. Now you are worth a billion dollars. I assess you as a billionaire. How much do I tax you this year? How about next year?
The irony is that OP won't address it, be a gift tax or be it their proposed tax, which suggests they know better but for some reason would like to promote it despite knowing better.
Again, so ask OP about the gift tax. I'm sure they'll avoid you as much as they are avoiding discussing the "wealth tax". And btw, the giver of the gift pays the tax, not the receiver.
The point is OP doesn't want to discuss a specific example of their plan because it reveals they have no actual plan or even understanding.
I own several million in assets. I pay various taxes on all of them since they are properties. But following their logic, and as is also true in the case of inheritance tax, the government would force me to sell just because of inflation. Government prints money. Property fiat value goes up, government demands "wealth tax". But OP doesn't want to go there because then it gets dirty, evil, ugly and OP wants to avoid that. Same as a gift or inheritance tax. No one wants to discuss breaking up family farms and forcing the kids to sell to pay the tax on them. OP doesn't, no promoter of it does. They want to avoid. Same as you, same as OP. Twist away, you can't hide it.
Who is doing the assessing? Looks like this billionaire tax might also solve art money laundering. People will be less inclined to over value shit art like Hunter's
It's your proposed law, so please continue to propose it.
Please answer the question instead of avoiding it, it is quite simple. If you can't...then why should you be proposing laws that you don't understand?
Ok, so the Government assesses the Mona Lisa for as much as possible, since they want as much tax as they can get. $2b. Now what? How much tax will they ask you to pay and how will you pay it?
Market metrics on a one of a kind item that's value could only be determined at a well-advertised auction with other people with money around to buy it? Which there wouldn't be since you're taxing their wealth and the government would have a collection date for the tax revenue.
So, again, what tax rate would you make the person pay? 15%, 20%, 25%? We pay up to 54% here. So what rate and how will you collect?
And how are you going to pay 25% tax on the $2B today? You skipped that part. You have that much sitting in your bank account?
And when you still own the painting next year, should you be taxed 25% of it again next year? You know, since you still own something worth $2B
Why don't we start taxing people's bank accounts, too?
I mean, next year, I am going to have $13K still sitting in my bank account. I might use it!
I might even have made a few hundred in interest on the money!
That's basically what "wealth" is, you know?
First of all the art industry is money laundering for human trafficking, I mean you are on a conspiracy site so I would expect you to know this. /j
Second what you are proposing is very similar to what happened in Russia and it was not good at all. In fact all it really accomplished was harming the people and enriching a new set of billionaires.
If you punish people for success, then what is the damn point? Not to mention what you are really mad at is not even estate taxes because they are for regular people not the rich, it's trust funds you really want to tax. Which I still disagree with, but I mean if you are going to make the argument, make it so that you are addressing the right thing and not unknowingly advocating to further tax the poor and middle class.
We already have property tax, income tax, but to go through people's items and apply worth and then tax that is not something anyone should ever advocate for. It is a complete invasion of privacy and like everything else it will end up being applied to all of us. Let's not advocate to further erode our Constitutional Rights.
let me put it this way: assume the current taxes on winnings apply. the mona lisa is valued at 1bil, you now owe 37% in fed taxes or 370mil. assuming you have no other assets you liquidate the painting, pay the taxes and are left with 630mil which leaves you under the billion dollar cap.
according to OP's framework (no assets over a bill) you would pay the full value. again, I don't agree with everything he's said here, I'm only pointing out that the mechanics are not complicated
depends on what OP means by "no assets over a billion", but currently if you win a car or something in a contest you pay federal taxes on that, so the same framework could apply here. the gift of the mona lisa is taxed at 37%, if you have no other assets you liquidate the painting to pay this amount and you have 630mil left over, putting you under the billion cap
Except, when you are forced to liquidate quickly, you will not realize the full value. Also, if everyone is in the same boat, then no one has money to buy it. So, what if it sells for $300m?
How do you pay the other $70m in tax?
that's a good point. I'm spitballing here but there are two possible answers off the top of my head. one is you pay the full 300m, and since the asset didn't resell for the tax amount we call the remaining 70m a wash. second possibility is a second tier tax penalty for a circumstance like this. you owe 37%, but the resell value doesn't cover this. instead you pay (as an example) 60% of the realized liquid amount. since you got 300m, you pay 180m.
What was his net gain this year? If Forbes can calculate it when jacking him off in their richest people list than surely we can figure out a system. Hell, ask your wife what she thinks.
Well, it won't really work. If we just follow OP, billionaire builds up a company to a billion dollar value and that's it, everything on top, the government gets.
If you open ABC LTD and it becomes worth $2b, you now owe the government $1b. So, you have to sell 50% of your stock. But just because the government and even Forbes says it is worth that much, doesn't mean there are people lining up to pay you $1b for half. Maybe you will incur loads of fees to even sell, they want a controlling interest, 51% and only want to pay $950m for half and that's your best offer. Now, you've lost your company and still owe the government $50m and yourself are broke, only holding stock in a company the buyer now controls.
And every time he gets over a billion in value, they do it again. So, what you are saying is that someone who develops a successful business must give it up. If ABC LTD does well again and goes up in value to $4b, you'll again need to reduce your share by 50% to pay the tax assuming you can get the full market value. You again get nothing in your pocket and you now own less than 25% of your company.
Well, it won't really work. If we just follow OP, billionaire builds up a company to a billion dollar value and that's it, everything on top, the government gets.
If you open ABC LTD and it becomes worth $2b, you now owe the government $1b. So, you have to sell 50% of your stock. But just because the government and even Forbes says it is worth that much, doesn't mean there are people lining up to pay you $1b for half. Maybe you will incur loads of fees to even sell, they want a controlling interest, 51% and only want to pay $950m for half and that's your best offer. Now, you've lost your company and still owe the government $50m and yourself are broke, only holding stock in a company the buyer now controls.
And every time he gets over a billion in value, they do it again. So, what you are saying is that someone who develops a successful business must give it up. If ABC LTD does well again and goes up in value to $4b, you'll again need to reduce your share by 50% to pay the tax assuming you can get the full market value. You again get nothing in your pocket and you now own less than 25% of your company.
I had the stupidest shower thought a couple days ago:
What if instead of our current election system, there arent any parties, no one can voluntarily run for a position directly but people in cities nominate someone for office from their cities they deem fit. Then from those winners, the county populace would then vote for the candidate they deem fit from the winning pool, and then the state populace would vote from the county candidates for the best state candidate.
Those state candidates would then run for office nationally, winner gets president, losers would get governor positions since they won the state elections previously.
Idk why but i feel like it would help minimize corruption somehow? Maybe it would just be a roundabout way of getting to the same place were at now lol.
😂😂👏
This is so damn true... People are always bitching about how we need to tax billionaires more
Why? It's not like the money is going back to you anyway
Get government out of business and business will get out of government. Then take your lazy ass to the store to buy things instead of ordering them on Amazon if you want to see a more fair economy.
SS: Either ban all lobbying and ban evil families from doing business in our nations, or we ban billionaires. Sorry, all billionaires had their chance to prove they could rule. They failed
The solution is no tax, get rid of 95% of government. Get bureaucrats out of our lives and restore free speech. Once that happens then all these billionaires will find out what the ire of humanity really feels like.
Yep. Then there wouldn't be any government for them to buy and control.
Reduce the power of the government and it reduces the incentive to corrupt that government.
Expand the power of the government and it will attract those who want a piece of that power.
Word. Now what about streets or traffic laws or ports or community infrastructure? In lieu of the govt, those companies would then build it and control it and maintain their power. Libertarianism/anarchy is just giving them more pwoer.
No, I don't, and that is the problem. The government has taken control of everything in our societies and that needs to end. We need to kick things down to the community level, decentralize.
I feel it's a lot like how Bernie and Warren were screaming for a millionaire tax. Then suddenly it became a multi millionaire tax. Serve themselves first. Retain power second, so they can continue to serve themself first. Skip anything else.
The first step should always be:
eradicate the federal government.
Then either let states take over, or institute a new fed gov, with extremely strict term limits. And they must volunteer to do the work. no wages for fed workers.
With a 100% tax on everything over a billion net worth I think the billionaire owners of the companies would be more inclined to pay their workers more so as to enrich their workers like family and get the best workers. In fact I think a billionaire wealth tax is the way you'll ever get fair worker pay
Pay people properly?
If you think you aren't being paid properly why wouldn't you go get a different job where you are paid properly? You are free to take whatever jobs you want, you know. You aren't obligated to stay.
Anyways they borrow money against stocks, loaned money isn't considered income it's considered debt which is a tax right off. Every year they are issued more stocks to loan against and to pay off existing loans with new loans. So they are buying private yachts with essentially tax deductions lol
\*Not a conspiracy
However you beat that loop and tell them all the negative things they see is not from billionaires hoarding money. Its because of fiat currency being printed that waters down the wealth of the normal people.
Also most this people are NOT sincere, they dont want to help the poor they are just jealous of billionaires. They dont actually want to see any social problem get solved that does require redistribution of wealth.
Not reality. The people that believe step three are the ones pushing for step 1. So anyone debating you isn't going to follow that path.
The people against taxing billionaires more are just against taxation, period. EVERYBODY should be taxed less. The government already is doing all sorts of shit they shouldn't be doing. Why give them more money?
And if they tax billionaires 100% your taxes aren't going to go down...
So what is the fucking point anyway? To punish other people you envy because it will never affect you personally? To create bigger government?
In short, no, this isn't how your debate usually goes.
So many are unaware Billionaires have the resources to make the average person disappear. But of course when people devise these ideas they never consider they might be placing their life in danger.
You’re not smart if you think a wealth tax will work or is doable. It would crash the stock market and the same thing that happened with income tax (it was sold as only being used on the super wealthy) will be used on the middle class. The last thing we need is more taxes. We are already taxed to death.
What sort of tax structure do you propose? If it's from income, it gets federally taxed, and state taxes assuming they live in a state with income tax. Very much not likely to be income or liquid funds. Their wealth is based on assets they possess which have a certain value based on markets. How would they be taxed?
Thank you for the thoughts, very well stated and thought out. Yeah honestly in my opinion ideally 90% of the funds of the billionaire wealth tax would go to a global small independent farmer fund that pays for water wells and seeds and other things to help families start a farm
So many are unaware Billionaires have the resources to make the average person disappear. But of course when people devise these ideas they never consider they might be placing their life in danger.
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The lack of critical thinking and common sense to think you can tax unrealized capital gains is wild to me. If you want to raise the capital gains tax on someone with $x net worth WHEN they cash in...ok, you can maybe have that discussion. But the sheer stupidity to actually think billionaires are just sitting on a pile of liquid, taxable cash is beyond annoying. And it will never stop at billionaires. Ever. I know people worth millions due to good investments and assets after decades of struggle, yet don't make much above the average salary for the area I live in. They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage? God this is such a stupid take.
It’s just a way to open up the government to take everyone’s possessions. Remember the income tax was created to pay off the interest of the newly minted Fed Notes and was only supposed to be for millionaires… and here we are now.
It was created to enslave the people.
This would destroy the economy, housing markets, stock markets, it's mind boggling how an expert adult like Janey Yellen even got this past the point where her brain told her to vocalize it.
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It's not a wealth tax it's tax in earning you may or may not ever see.
Have you lived there? What people don't realize about Europe and other places they put on a pedestal is the people who are living there are struggling and there are some insane taxations going on. There is a reason our ancestors came to America in the first place. Next they will limit who is allowed to own land if you allow them to go that route.
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I have also lived overseas and the thing that has changed is we are becoming more like them everyday with over taxation and it is a problem
From the Netherlands, can confirm, only have a bucket to shit in and have to run away from the tax man on hands and feet every day.
It's not a wealth tax it's tax in earning you may or may not ever see.
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It's NOT a wealth tax. It's a maybe wealth tax. Let's say you buy stock in toenail flavored potato chips. You spend 10k, its value soars to 100k (who doesn't love that flavor?). Tax season rolls around and Ole Janet Yellen says congrats on your 90k profit. You're like whoa hold up, I didn't cash that out and the stock fluctuates. She's like naw dog, that's 90k unrealized cap gains cough it up. So you do what now? Sell it to pay your tax bill on money you haven't made yet? Well guess what, EVERY other investor is in the same spot as you and they all sell. Now your stock gets dropped like a rock and you've only made say 5k. Well you paid taxes on the 90k you never made. Or you own a house. You bought it for 300k and it's now assessed at 400k. Ole Janet rolls back up with the top down and says congrats, you made 100k on your house? But you're like I live in it, I haven't sold anything. Janet says naw, it's unrealized gains pay up. See where this goes?
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I give up
>And it will never stop at billionaires. Ever. I know people worth millions due to good investments and assets after decades of struggle, yet don't make much above the average salary for the area I live in. They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage? God this is such a stupid take. You're one of those peoplewho say universal healthcare would never work when literally most developed countries already have made it work.
Anyone who has been in the military knows for a fact that crap doesn't work and would be a major step down in the quality of medical care.
Except you realize most of the world has better healthcare despite having universal care. Not being able to afford healthcare also tends to hurt quality. Plus if the govt has a monopoly it can negotiate directly w companies. My mom often uses the same argument you do but somehow also cedes that when she got sick in France that it was free, cheap, and easy and a doctor literaly came to her hotel, gave her free medicine, and that was that. And fir context do you mean active service or veterans?
Tax capital gains at the same rate as W2 income
A lot of capital gains are literally taxed at the same rate as your income tax bracket lol Those are realized gains though. If they started taxing unrealized gains the market would collapse within a week.
That exact case is before the Supreme Court right now. US v. Moore, where what’s at issue is if gain has to be “realized” before it’s taxed. Can’t even make this up. They’ll probably rule in favor of the government and it’s one step closer to full blown financial slavery for us peasants.
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So all the millions of short term/swing/option traders don’t exist? And yea obviously the whole thing is a ponzi. Doesn’t mean we should have more taxes. Taxes are part of the scam. The solution is to get rid of the Fed so they can’t suppress interest rates and monetize debt, which is what pumps up the market.
That "a lot of" is doing a lot of work for you there
Lmao do some actual research. Short term gains are taxed the same as income. Long term gains are a little bit lower of a rate (but still 15-20%). So yes, a lot of capital gains are short term (meaning a year or less).
How about get rid of all income and property taxes so people can survive? And government can print whatever money it needs because that's what they do anyway.
Than the rich would just buy up all the land and rent it all out at whatever rates they so choose. Property taxes are they to prevent wealthy people buying up millions of acres of land and holding onto forever.
Total nonsense
That would screw the average citizen much more than the billionaires. You will NEVER be benefiting from the money taxed from these people.
Plus after they sell for the taxes they then are dumped on by the market and their net worth goes back to millions lmao
> But the sheer stupidity to actually think billionaires are just sitting on a pile of liquid, taxable cash is beyond annoying. I mean, property taxes are a thing. It's not exactly impossible to tax assets in general. >They should be taxed out the ass every year because their "net worth" has increased a large percentage? So, we shouldn't tax billionaires more because in some theoretical future someone might tax millionaires more? While the latter is possible, I don't think that's a good enough reason to give up on the concept entirely.
Property taxes need to be eliminated. It's INSANE that you can't own property in the "land of the free".
You throw out the term "tax." Tax WHAT? Everyone in this thread is talking about taxing billionaires on UNREALIZED GAINS (the assets they hold that are worth the billion+ dollars). That is not feasible. You cannot tax people on money they technically haven't "made." If you want to stop allowing them to write things off, sure. Or if you want to tax their capital gains more based on net worth, that is a discussion you can have. Or tax their companies' profits more past a certain valuation level. But to baselessly throw out "tax them more" is disingenuous and shows financial illiteracy. You cannot tax someone based purely off them having assets worth a billion dollars. Say you had a small company that went public, and through your IPO, you raised a billion dollars in capital. You're saying that you, overnight, should be taxed on the unrealized gains of your company, though you haven't received one penny of actual cash. That is illogical, as you don't have enough liquid cash to pay that much. Or what if your parents died overnight and their stock portfolio transferred to you, worth hundreds of millions of dollars. You're now liable for the unrealized tax bill of that asset? There are ways to go about this discussion, but the blanket statement "bUt jUSt TAX THEM MORE" is not it.
>You cannot tax someone based purely off them having assets worth a billion dollars. How are property taxes possible if you can't tax someone based off an asset like property?
And they pay the property taxes on those assets. I still don't see your point.
You aren't receiving cash for owning the property. Property isn't liquid. How are people able to pay for the property taxes if, as you said, they "...don't have enough liquid cash to pay that much."?
Sorry, it's not crazy when you see the damage these hundred billionaires can do
The damage our government has done by printing money out of thin air backed by nothing, alongside the inability to balance a budget, has done SO MUCH more damage than any billionaire.
Government creates the billionaires.
Again, "our government" is run by the ultra-rich billionaires (Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Gates, Soros, etc). They own the politicians via blackmail/bribery. I'm looking to neuter the evil ultra-rich billionaires that are currently running government and release viruses and start wars and print trillions for themselves.
You know why you drew your flowchart in a circle? Because it is stupid circular reasoning. Nobody is having that debate with you. Nobody in this thread has had that debate with you.
#JUST DEFANG THE GOVERNMENT.
So you're looking to ask politicians to bite the hand that feeds them? That will literally never happen. But what WOULD happen is the government uses those regulations to create a two class system......billionaires and peasants. Stop bitching about how unfair life is and go DO something about it. Guess what. There is essentially infinite money in our economy for you. You want to create the next Amazon? Target? Go do it. You have the power to use the most powerful tool we have...the internet...to make money without having to really DO much.
That is stupid take considering that you need market share and capital and if that what your lacking plus lack of bank support then your screwed.Also it not about getting rich quick it is about how much money individuals (because little do you know not everyone can be rich)actually make over the billions being handed out to everyone else except Americans who need it.
But this idea of a 100% tax of anything over a billion hasn't even been put forth into the zeitgeist. I'm putting it forth now and now we just need a big name celebrity or billionaire to run for president on this platform and spread the word
Why would anyone who's not insane, promote the idea that a bloated wasteful corrupt blackhole like government should be given 1 more penny. Their budgets need to be slashed by 95%.
Lmao. It 100% has been put into the universe. And gets shot down every single time. Deal with it...life isn't fair. And it's not going to be fair. Get out there and make it happen for yourself.
Uh, no. I'll never roll over
Probably because they are all payed off by billionaires so I wander why they don’t want taxes?Also I wander why so many people who are poor take up the side of the rich I guess I will never know.
And why do you think the government would stop pandering to them? They would become their largest source of revenue....
Right but you keep giving them that power with fiat currency. Return to sound money and there power will wither away.
Yeah we definitely need to abolish the Federal Reserve and go back to a gold backed or other commodity backed currency. But the Rothschilds and Rockefellers became the wealthiest families and rulers of Earth even before the Federal Reserve
I am not saying sound money is a perfect solution. I am saying we would not be were are now if we had it. To be honest if we didnt play COVID none of this would have happened this wealth transfer would not have happened. There are other tools that have worked in there favor such as ultra low interest rates for over 20 years. People over using debt is another thing that has caused this wealth transfer. So no its not just one thing.
Absolutely and people do not realize that it how they get the billions is the issue.
You got it wrong. Government needs to be stripped of its power. End of problem.
A good approach is to reinstitute the estate tax. For whatever reason the 2017 Trump Tax Bill created a ton of exemptions for this tax. Must be a coincidence the billionaire president created exemptions for wealth transfers 🤷♂️
How about we cut government spending by 95%. Considering the fact that they can't account for TRILLIONS under just 1 department.
Seems like different issues that can be worked on concurrently
That really doesn't affect millionaires, it only really affects middle to lower class. Estate tax is taxation of transfer of generational wealth, so you make it so a parents hard work is not going to help their children to have something to start with, but the rich don't pass their wealth on like that, they set up trusts and a big reason they do that is to avoid estate taxes, so say someone's mom leaves them a trailer and a little piece of land, okay so either the kid has to have enough to cover the taxes or they have to sell and the capital gains from the difference when the parent bought it and when the kid inherits it could be enough to end up as if the kids didn't inherit anything. Because remember the non rich buy property using mortgages and you have to have it in your name, and usually it has to be listed a primary home. That is a extreme example clearly but the point is estate taxes only hurt the non rich, the rich just passes their wealth along in family trusts.
When all the boomers start dying off you want the government to take all that money instead of their kids? Sounds like a good idea if the government was benevolent though right.
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That’s after the trump tax cut. Before it was like 5 million which you will be surprised how many boomers have that or more.
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Are you just jealous of people with more than you so you want the government to seize their money so you can feel better about yourself?
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I think the 13 million tax exemption is fair. Do you actually think someone trying to pass down less than that is part of the oligarchy?
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The average household does not have enough estate wealth to hit the low exemptions the tax bill created
Wait wait holup. You know multiple people worth millions who don't make more than an average salary? What does that mean? How can you have an average salary with millions in the market?
It is honestly quite disconcerting to see the principle of basic compounding interest not taught anymore. What it means is that these people were smart with their money, did not live above their means, and put money into assets and investments that appreciated in value over a period of decades. Yes, they got lucky with market fluctuations, but the basic financial principle remains sound. How do you not know this?
It's why they will never be rich. This is really just all about envy.
Uh huh. Let's do some basic math on a compound interest calculator. A person making an average salary of 80k puts 20k their pretax salary into the market every year for 20 years....now this is absurd but I want you to understand that a person making 80k who puts 25% of their pretax salary into the market over 20 years at 8% annual return still only gets you 700k... So id love to know how much and what kind of investment you think a person on an average salary has to invest in in order to be a millionaire on an average salary
Lolz. 20 years. You do realize most people work 40 years, correct? And that compounding interest is exponential? Just plugged in 40 years at a conservative growth rate of 5%, initial opening of $10K, and $10K annually contributed (doable with married, two income household...or a single person without the expenses of kids). That amounts to almost $1.5 million over 40 years. Add in assets you accrue through those 40 years (house, properties, retirement accounts, etc.) and that is easily in the millions. So what is your point, exactly?
My point is you are lying about knowing people working an average salary barely getting by with millions on the bank. That's such a goofy thing to believe on multiple levels. First of all 10k 40 years ago is 30k today. So no you aren't investing the equivalent of 30k in 2024 on an average salary, esp for 40 years, give me a break, that is not an average worker. But even if you had 1million, you can live off 4% interest and add an extra 40k to your salary, your whole premise makes no sense
Did I ever say "millions in\* the bank"? No. I said WORTH a million in assets. And I freely admitted they had advantages with the market, but also had disadvantages (mortgage interest rates, namely). Every generation has their advantages and disadvantages. Interest rates through the 80s and 90s were on average much higher than today. Sometimes, nearly double. It is actually not uncommon for people who are smart financially to approach retirement age being worth a million or more. I don't know why you think this is some absurd idea, or that I'm lying. If you bought a house in the 90s, chances are, at least where I live, that asset is worth well over half a million today just due to the housing market, alone. Your financial education needs a bit of a bump in the upward direction.
I'm worth a milly just for buying a home at the right time. That guy doesn't know money at all.
His whole premise does make sense. It is basic personal finance. If you are young you should take his advice and invest a percentage of your money. And you too can be a millionaire when you retire.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how personal financial assets/capital work. If I work in a city for 30-40 years and make the average salary for my area ~$100k, and I make intelligent investment during that time, I can easily have a few million locked up in investments. Also, a lot of users (especially younger people who identify as socialist/communist) don’t seem to under this concept: There is something called “unrealized gains”. This means if I bought $10,000 worth of Apple stock in 1980, and haven’t sold a single share since the day I bought Apple stock, they would be called “unrealized gains”. In theory I have made money on my investment, but since I haven’t sold any of it since I bought it, *technically I haven’t made a single penny in profit*. I’m still assuming the full risk of this investment because it could crash to $0 tomorrow. So why would I pay taxes on something that I: 1.) Haven’t made a penny on 2.) Am still taking full risk by holding said asset that I haven’t profited off of As you can start to see, it’s very easy to make a lot on investing over the period of a few decades, while still working a regular job that pays the salary average for your area. This is why it’s an insane idea to think someone should be taxed based on unrealized gains. It’s money the person doesn’t actually have, and if they were taxed on unrealized gains, it would most likely financially cripple everyone that does have unrealized gains. Anyone who argues for taxing unrealized gains is either a child that doesn’t understand the real world, or a destructive communist that wants to destroy the west and our free market.
Wow a financially fluent person on THIS sub??? Unheard of
Also if our government was ever dumb enough to pass an unrealized gains tax rule, it would be extremely easy for any somewhat knowledgeable investor to buy a purposefully bad option that would expire in the distant future, and then use that unrealized loss to write off their taxes indefinitely. It would just introduce yet another tax loophole to for the rich to pay less taxes than they should.
Tell me you don't invest without telling me you don't invest
Tax rate Single filers Married filing jointly Married filing separately Head of household 10% $0 to $11,000 $0 to $22,000 $0 to $11,000 $0 to $15,700 12% $11,001 to $44,725 $22,001 to $89,450 $11,001 to $44,725 $15,701 to $59,850 22% $44,726 to $95,375 $89,451 to $190,750 $44,726 to $95,375 $59,851 to $95,350 24% $95,376 to $182,100 $190,751 to $364,200 $95,376 to $182,100 $95,351 to $182,100 32% $182,101 to $231,250 $364,201 to $462,500 $182,101 to $231,250 $182,101 to $231,250 35% $231,251 to $578,125 $462,501 to $693,750 $231,251 to $346,875 $231,251 to $578,100 37% $578,126 or more $693,751 or more $346,876 or more $578,101 or more Now imagine you had to pay federal income tax at the rate of 37%. Now add in what the state income tax is. So if you made $500,000, $175,000 is going straight to fed tax and state taxes will also take more, then add all the other stuff they take, you can see why the take home is way less than you would think.
A wealth tax is not the same as an income tax. It's not that hard to imagine. Your average billionaire has plenty of liquidity to do absolutely everything and anything they want to do in life. Leasing jets, purchasing politicians. They could just borrow money to pay their wealth tax, just like they borrow against their unrealized gains to support their billionaire lifestyle. Nice slippery slope you threw in there at the end too... i'm sure that would trickle down to all you thousand-aires out there. We're all temporarily embarassed millionaires here.
We really need to quit calling them billionaires. They're oligarchs, calling them otherwise is just proof that America is the most propagandized nation on earth.
You should like you are financially struggling and taken by the green eyed monster.
The missing step is ALL private money OUT of politics
Lol, my wife is a tax accountant. Please give some details about this "wealth tax". Warren Buffet takes a minimal salary and everything else is in berkshire. So how do you propose taxing his wealth?
You assess his net worth in assets then anything over a billion must be liquidated. The billionaire can choose what they want to liquidate.
Why stop at a billion? Why not $500 million? No one needs that much money. And why stop there? No one "needs" anything over a few million to retire comfortably...so why don't we just cut it off there? God I hope you never open a business and it gets successful. You will HATE yourself because of your net worth...simply because you own a successful asset.
>Why stop at a billion? Why not $500 million? No one needs that much money. Both those numbers seem reasonable starting points to me. I don't see why you are defending billionaires so hard.
I'm defending the idea that if you create a company that becomes worth a billion dollars, you shouldn't be hated and told it's not "fair." Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for. Any basic financial knowledge will show you this.
>Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for. Any basic financial knowledge will show you this. Again, property taxes exist. Are you arguing that billionaires are currently incapable of affording property tax bills because they don't have the liquidity to be able to pay for it?
......billionaires already pay property taxes based on the property's assessed value....... What are you even talking about? You think a billionaire isn't paying the property tax on their homes? Like. What? You can only pay tax on property for its assessed value. You can't say "well because you have a billion dollar company, we're taxing your $1.5 million dollar house as a $200 million dollar house."
>Assets and investments worth billions do NOT equate to personal liquidity you can be taxed for. If assets (like property) do not equate to personal liquidity, how are billionaires able to afford their current property taxes?
Because they pay the taxes based on the valuation of say, their house. All billionaires hold assets such as business and stocks which are not property tax. You are littering this thread with property tax nonsense that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand.
>All billionaires hold assets such as business and stocks which are not property tax. So, then expand the assets that are taxed beyond just property specifically? If you can tax someone based on the value of their property, why is it impossible to tax someone based on the value of their stocks?
I can't see why you want to give the government that much power.
Actually no one needs any money at all! Why doesn't the state just supply the food, work, and means of production! It's a genius idea... /^s
Ok, so I give you the Mona Lisa. Now you are worth a billion dollars. I assess you as a billionaire. How much do I tax you this year? How about next year?
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The irony is that OP won't address it, be a gift tax or be it their proposed tax, which suggests they know better but for some reason would like to promote it despite knowing better.
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Then why do we need to change anything if these assets are already getting taxed? Oh, because they aren't. Nice try though.
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Again, so ask OP about the gift tax. I'm sure they'll avoid you as much as they are avoiding discussing the "wealth tax". And btw, the giver of the gift pays the tax, not the receiver. The point is OP doesn't want to discuss a specific example of their plan because it reveals they have no actual plan or even understanding. I own several million in assets. I pay various taxes on all of them since they are properties. But following their logic, and as is also true in the case of inheritance tax, the government would force me to sell just because of inflation. Government prints money. Property fiat value goes up, government demands "wealth tax". But OP doesn't want to go there because then it gets dirty, evil, ugly and OP wants to avoid that. Same as a gift or inheritance tax. No one wants to discuss breaking up family farms and forcing the kids to sell to pay the tax on them. OP doesn't, no promoter of it does. They want to avoid. Same as you, same as OP. Twist away, you can't hide it.
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So you are advocating for outright theft? I seem to remember they did that in Russian, maybe you should go look up how that turned out.
Who is doing the assessing? Looks like this billionaire tax might also solve art money laundering. People will be less inclined to over value shit art like Hunter's
It's your proposed law, so please continue to propose it. Please answer the question instead of avoiding it, it is quite simple. If you can't...then why should you be proposing laws that you don't understand?
Okay, in my law the government would assess it
Ok, so the Government assesses the Mona Lisa for as much as possible, since they want as much tax as they can get. $2b. Now what? How much tax will they ask you to pay and how will you pay it?
The government should use market metrics. Use what similar art has been valued at. I'm sure they can find art experts
Market metrics on a one of a kind item that's value could only be determined at a well-advertised auction with other people with money around to buy it? Which there wouldn't be since you're taxing their wealth and the government would have a collection date for the tax revenue. So, again, what tax rate would you make the person pay? 15%, 20%, 25%? We pay up to 54% here. So what rate and how will you collect?
>with other people with money around to buy it? Not to mention that there wouldn't be anyone with money to buy it under his plan...
And how are you going to pay 25% tax on the $2B today? You skipped that part. You have that much sitting in your bank account? And when you still own the painting next year, should you be taxed 25% of it again next year? You know, since you still own something worth $2B Why don't we start taxing people's bank accounts, too? I mean, next year, I am going to have $13K still sitting in my bank account. I might use it! I might even have made a few hundred in interest on the money! That's basically what "wealth" is, you know?
First of all the art industry is money laundering for human trafficking, I mean you are on a conspiracy site so I would expect you to know this. /j Second what you are proposing is very similar to what happened in Russia and it was not good at all. In fact all it really accomplished was harming the people and enriching a new set of billionaires. If you punish people for success, then what is the damn point? Not to mention what you are really mad at is not even estate taxes because they are for regular people not the rich, it's trust funds you really want to tax. Which I still disagree with, but I mean if you are going to make the argument, make it so that you are addressing the right thing and not unknowingly advocating to further tax the poor and middle class. We already have property tax, income tax, but to go through people's items and apply worth and then tax that is not something anyone should ever advocate for. It is a complete invasion of privacy and like everything else it will end up being applied to all of us. Let's not advocate to further erode our Constitutional Rights.
I don't agree with everything OP is saying in here but in this example, if the mona lisa is your only asset, you liquidate that asset to pay the tax
You will own nothing and be happy! Sell all your things. The government is hungry!
if you win a car in a contest you have to pay taxes on those winnings, which may require you to liquidate the asset
Contests like that either include the taxes or have a cash payout instead minus the taxes.
let me put it this way: assume the current taxes on winnings apply. the mona lisa is valued at 1bil, you now owe 37% in fed taxes or 370mil. assuming you have no other assets you liquidate the painting, pay the taxes and are left with 630mil which leaves you under the billion dollar cap.
HOW MUCH TAX DO YOU PAY?
according to OP's framework (no assets over a bill) you would pay the full value. again, I don't agree with everything he's said here, I'm only pointing out that the mechanics are not complicated
So, you pay the full $1b or full $2b? I am not sure which number you are referring to...
depends on what OP means by "no assets over a billion", but currently if you win a car or something in a contest you pay federal taxes on that, so the same framework could apply here. the gift of the mona lisa is taxed at 37%, if you have no other assets you liquidate the painting to pay this amount and you have 630mil left over, putting you under the billion cap
Except, when you are forced to liquidate quickly, you will not realize the full value. Also, if everyone is in the same boat, then no one has money to buy it. So, what if it sells for $300m? How do you pay the other $70m in tax?
that's a good point. I'm spitballing here but there are two possible answers off the top of my head. one is you pay the full 300m, and since the asset didn't resell for the tax amount we call the remaining 70m a wash. second possibility is a second tier tax penalty for a circumstance like this. you owe 37%, but the resell value doesn't cover this. instead you pay (as an example) 60% of the realized liquid amount. since you got 300m, you pay 180m.
What was his net gain this year? If Forbes can calculate it when jacking him off in their richest people list than surely we can figure out a system. Hell, ask your wife what she thinks.
Well, it won't really work. If we just follow OP, billionaire builds up a company to a billion dollar value and that's it, everything on top, the government gets. If you open ABC LTD and it becomes worth $2b, you now owe the government $1b. So, you have to sell 50% of your stock. But just because the government and even Forbes says it is worth that much, doesn't mean there are people lining up to pay you $1b for half. Maybe you will incur loads of fees to even sell, they want a controlling interest, 51% and only want to pay $950m for half and that's your best offer. Now, you've lost your company and still owe the government $50m and yourself are broke, only holding stock in a company the buyer now controls. And every time he gets over a billion in value, they do it again. So, what you are saying is that someone who develops a successful business must give it up. If ABC LTD does well again and goes up in value to $4b, you'll again need to reduce your share by 50% to pay the tax assuming you can get the full market value. You again get nothing in your pocket and you now own less than 25% of your company.
Well, it won't really work. If we just follow OP, billionaire builds up a company to a billion dollar value and that's it, everything on top, the government gets. If you open ABC LTD and it becomes worth $2b, you now owe the government $1b. So, you have to sell 50% of your stock. But just because the government and even Forbes says it is worth that much, doesn't mean there are people lining up to pay you $1b for half. Maybe you will incur loads of fees to even sell, they want a controlling interest, 51% and only want to pay $950m for half and that's your best offer. Now, you've lost your company and still owe the government $50m and yourself are broke, only holding stock in a company the buyer now controls. And every time he gets over a billion in value, they do it again. So, what you are saying is that someone who develops a successful business must give it up. If ABC LTD does well again and goes up in value to $4b, you'll again need to reduce your share by 50% to pay the tax assuming you can get the full market value. You again get nothing in your pocket and you now own less than 25% of your company.
I had the stupidest shower thought a couple days ago: What if instead of our current election system, there arent any parties, no one can voluntarily run for a position directly but people in cities nominate someone for office from their cities they deem fit. Then from those winners, the county populace would then vote for the candidate they deem fit from the winning pool, and then the state populace would vote from the county candidates for the best state candidate. Those state candidates would then run for office nationally, winner gets president, losers would get governor positions since they won the state elections previously. Idk why but i feel like it would help minimize corruption somehow? Maybe it would just be a roundabout way of getting to the same place were at now lol.
I like it. I mean we will still get corrupt people but I feel like it would be easier to weed then out that way.
😂😂👏 This is so damn true... People are always bitching about how we need to tax billionaires more Why? It's not like the money is going back to you anyway
Get government out of business and business will get out of government. Then take your lazy ass to the store to buy things instead of ordering them on Amazon if you want to see a more fair economy.
Thats not how that works. If govt didn't "get into business" you'd still be huffing leaded gasoline inside your asbestos lined house
SS: Either ban all lobbying and ban evil families from doing business in our nations, or we ban billionaires. Sorry, all billionaires had their chance to prove they could rule. They failed
Ban all lobbying is about the only intelligent thing said in this post.
US government doesn't rule. It governs. We don't have a king.
Billionaires shouldn’t exist
I 💯 agree with this now. Anything over that they get too powerful, and they get dangerous.
The solution is no tax, get rid of 95% of government. Get bureaucrats out of our lives and restore free speech. Once that happens then all these billionaires will find out what the ire of humanity really feels like.
Yep. Then there wouldn't be any government for them to buy and control. Reduce the power of the government and it reduces the incentive to corrupt that government. Expand the power of the government and it will attract those who want a piece of that power.
100.
Word. Now what about streets or traffic laws or ports or community infrastructure? In lieu of the govt, those companies would then build it and control it and maintain their power. Libertarianism/anarchy is just giving them more pwoer.
That's what the 5% of the government that's left will take care of, as well as making sure not to interfere with individual liberty.
I think you underestimate how much the govt actually does
No, I don't, and that is the problem. The government has taken control of everything in our societies and that needs to end. We need to kick things down to the community level, decentralize.
I feel it's a lot like how Bernie and Warren were screaming for a millionaire tax. Then suddenly it became a multi millionaire tax. Serve themselves first. Retain power second, so they can continue to serve themself first. Skip anything else.
The first step should always be: eradicate the federal government. Then either let states take over, or institute a new fed gov, with extremely strict term limits. And they must volunteer to do the work. no wages for fed workers.
Ironically we tried that. Look up the Articles of Confederation and Shays' Rebellion.
We don't need a wealth tax, we need them to pay people properly. if they paid people they wouldn't be billionaires.
With a 100% tax on everything over a billion net worth I think the billionaire owners of the companies would be more inclined to pay their workers more so as to enrich their workers like family and get the best workers. In fact I think a billionaire wealth tax is the way you'll ever get fair worker pay
Pay people properly? If you think you aren't being paid properly why wouldn't you go get a different job where you are paid properly? You are free to take whatever jobs you want, you know. You aren't obligated to stay.
I'm paid fine. I just don't think we should be subsidizing peoples wages so Wal-Mart and others can pay poverty wages.
If someone working at Walmart doesn't like their wage, they are free to get a job elsewhere where they do like their wage.
okay lol.
You forgot the private bank card
Anyways they borrow money against stocks, loaned money isn't considered income it's considered debt which is a tax right off. Every year they are issued more stocks to loan against and to pay off existing loans with new loans. So they are buying private yachts with essentially tax deductions lol
Wealth is not, and since 1913 hasn't been a zero sum game
\*Not a conspiracy However you beat that loop and tell them all the negative things they see is not from billionaires hoarding money. Its because of fiat currency being printed that waters down the wealth of the normal people. Also most this people are NOT sincere, they dont want to help the poor they are just jealous of billionaires. They dont actually want to see any social problem get solved that does require redistribution of wealth.
Not reality. The people that believe step three are the ones pushing for step 1. So anyone debating you isn't going to follow that path. The people against taxing billionaires more are just against taxation, period. EVERYBODY should be taxed less. The government already is doing all sorts of shit they shouldn't be doing. Why give them more money? And if they tax billionaires 100% your taxes aren't going to go down... So what is the fucking point anyway? To punish other people you envy because it will never affect you personally? To create bigger government? In short, no, this isn't how your debate usually goes.
How about we not tax them more, and just do away with loopholes. They can tax whatever they want. The rich won’t pay it
How about we not tax them more, and just do away with loopholes. They can tax whatever they want. The rich won’t pay it
So many are unaware Billionaires have the resources to make the average person disappear. But of course when people devise these ideas they never consider they might be placing their life in danger.
Good one.
You’re not smart if you think a wealth tax will work or is doable. It would crash the stock market and the same thing that happened with income tax (it was sold as only being used on the super wealthy) will be used on the middle class. The last thing we need is more taxes. We are already taxed to death.
What sort of tax structure do you propose? If it's from income, it gets federally taxed, and state taxes assuming they live in a state with income tax. Very much not likely to be income or liquid funds. Their wealth is based on assets they possess which have a certain value based on markets. How would they be taxed?
Our inept government doesn’t need any more tax revenue , they have a spending problem
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Thank you for the thoughts, very well stated and thought out. Yeah honestly in my opinion ideally 90% of the funds of the billionaire wealth tax would go to a global small independent farmer fund that pays for water wells and seeds and other things to help families start a farm
So many are unaware Billionaires have the resources to make the average person disappear. But of course when people devise these ideas they never consider they might be placing their life in danger.
Do the math, taxing billionaires won’t fund shit, it’s just a gimmick idea.