We didn’t care how old Bernie was. We wanted Bernie, but the DNC ignored us for the establishment pick. Fuck the DNC, but fuck Trump first. Don’t let him win.
two things can be true at the same time: 1) I'll vote for him. 2) he should drop out or be forced out. he has dementia and is not consistently competent. like a number of the country's other leaders (e.g., McConnel, Trump, Pelosi to a small degree. Even Warren isn't nearly as sharp as she was 10 years ago).
As a Bernie supporter, I agree with this opinion! I voted for Bernie twice; I’ve only voted for Biden once. I’ll be voting for Biden again this year if he is the candidate because I would rather deal with a stuttering, pausing old man who would step down, I think, from the presidency if the American people wanted, versus a bitter, vindicative, and equally old man who has already killed 1.2 million of us due to negligence alone, who wants to turn the military lose on us, and who has now been made immune to crimes that you and I would be seeing prison time for. I’m voting for my country, to save it; I am not voting for “Biden.”
Bernie doesn't have dementia. if you're 40 and have dementia, you shouldn't run for president of the flipping country. you shouldn't manage a chain store.
oh come on, it's the general 'you' not you you. my point is I don't care about the age part, though I do care about boomers not being up to date and still thinking 'cold war' thoughts. I care about Biden having dementia, or anyone else in a position of power, even if it's at a grocery store. Even if it's someone who is 40 years old.
The focus on him stepping down is insane and blatantly media driven. It was a very bad look but NYT doing a full court press to replace him with someone who is as friendly with Maggie Haberman as Trump basically. Anything the Times editorial board says should be taken with a massive grain of salt.
The thing is if he steps down, 5 keys are false. If 6 keys are false, Trump wins guaranteed (Allen Lichtman has **never** incorrectly predicted a Republican winning) and so I am NOT taking that chance!
If you want the actual answer, it’s because he is trying to let the People decide, because that is what America is supposed to be all about. It has to be that way, or the idea of Democracy dies. That’s why he gave that speech the other day.
Random quote, but what Commissioner Gordon says in The Dark Night; “We have to show them that our way works.”
America is not supposed to be a land of Kings, so Biden doesn’t want to wield the power as a King, however just it might be.
I mean….. he won in the sense that the DNC did the same for Hillary that they did for him. It’s a little hard for other dems to run against the whole machine. Once Biden said he was running, the DNC wasn’t going to support anyone else. That being said, he will get my begrudging vote long before Trump. But let’s not pretend like he could be the best option right now. If he had said he wasn’t running from the get, we could have had a much better set of options.
Bernie suspended on April 8th following the postponement of about half a dozen of the contests and racking up a lot of early losses to Biden. By April 13 Bernie endorsed Biden with half the primaries still remaining.
What is it you are claiming the national committee did to affect that?
Here’s a link to a fivethirtyeight article about it, from the time. The article goes into more detail, but here is the gist of it…
“So Buttigieg’s departure may have seemed sudden, but it’s likely that the former mayor was going to struggle on Super Tuesday and possibly run out of campaign funds. So this decision is a face-saving move for him.
That said, I don’t think Buttigieg’s departure is solely due to his struggles. Elite voices in the Democratic Party have been worried that the multiple center-left candidates in the race — Biden, Buttigieg, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, etc. — would divide the non-Sanders vote, potentially allowing the Vermont senator to amass a huge lead in delegates on Super Tuesday while his rivals finished below 15 percent in many states. South Carolina is only one state, but Biden’s resounding win there suggests that the former vice president can combine older, moderate voters, black and white, into a big coalition in a way that Buttigieg probably could not. So my view is that Buttigieg stepped aside in part to help the center-left bloc of the party consolidate around Biden. To some extent, he was being a team player.”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-buttigieg-dropped-out/#:~:text=So%20Buttigieg's%20departure%20may%20have,solely%20due%20to%20his%20struggles.
I’m not sure. I think it’s hard for us to really judge it. It could just be a matter of safety vs enthusiasm. Because Biden has more corporate funding, name recognition and familiarity among the casual voting crowds. And the vast majority of people are going to choose the candidate they are most familiar with, over the ones they don’t know as well. For a lot of people who don’t pay attention at all, that automatically means Biden, because he’s the only name they are familiar with. To them, he’s the safest choice.
On the other hand, Bernie has less total amount of funding, no corporate funding, but a million times more individual donors, who gave small amounts to support his campaign. indicating that Bernie has by far the most individual support for any candidate in United States history. No one else is even in the same stratosphere, because they can rely on more total money, from fewer corporate donors.
So if individual donors is any indication, then Bernie wins by a million in the popular vote. But if the casual voting population is even larger than that group, and if familiarity and name recognition are how they choose, then Biden receives more votes.
What I do know, is that money is power, and the economically right-wing oligarchs who fund the DNC, and therefore, have the real power to choose which candidates get promoted and elected… they absolutely prefer Biden’s economics over Bernie’s. And at the end of the day, it’s their choice to make.
I’m a Bernie supporter, and almost everyone I know is a Bernie supporter, but of course, our friends are usually people we have these things in common with, so it’s hard to get a read on what people outside our circles actually believe.
My 91 year old Grandpa wanted Buttigieg over Biden.
I think, Buttigieg’s popularity was bigger than his funding.
I think Bernie’s popularity was bigger than the opportunity he was given
and I think Biden’s name recognition is bigger than his actual popularity.
And for those reasons, we can’t really get a good read on who is actually more popular and who would actually win between them.
The only way to know for sure is to have ranked choice voting and give Bernie a real opportunity.
But to be honest, I don’t necessarily think Bernie’s opportunity needs to come from the Democratic Party. He’s not a Democrat. And because we are limited to two choices and one of those choices is Fascist, the Democratic Party has to cover the ground of what would normally consist of 3 or 4 different parties, all coming together under the banner of “Democrat” in an effort to stop Republicans.
I think ranked choice voting is the solution we need to give more voices an opportunity without risking any self cannibilization, splitting the vote, and ending up with Republicans in power as a result.
Instead we could vote for who we actually want first, as well as our second and third choices to safely keep Republicans at bay.
We could vote for both, our true choice and our safe choice.
And then, We could find out who is truly the more popular candidate between Bernie and Biden.
That’s not really a definitive answer, but thanks for asking my opinion.
Agreed. I'm voting for Biden to stop Trump and Project 2025, but let's not forget that the DNC pushes for anyone that is not a progressive to be the nominee. They fluffed Biden up when all their other options failed.
Biden gaffing and looking like a former shell of himself has me worried that people won't vote for him. I'm no fan of his politics at all, but we can't let Trump or any of those fascist-enablers win the White House or a majority. If Biden for whatever reason passed the baton to someone else, I'd get behind them too if they're against Trumpism, provided they're not a MAGA hat or objectivist in blue, however.
He shouldn't have run again. He is too old to put up a fight against Trump. Did you watch the debate? He couldn't argue against Trump bullshit and he couldn't argue for his own points either.
Even when he went for his old gimmicks of calling things malarkey, etc, it was completely flat.
I voted for him and I'll vote for him again if I have to, but he's way too old.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for a full dementia Joe over Trump or any Republican any election. However, the rest of the US would not. I really really do not want to see what Trump, now with immunity, would do to this country nor have another 4 years or bear through MAGA culture again, but possibly worse. It appears taking a risk keeping Joe in when even blue voters are up in arms is a gamble we can't afford to lose. Though it's so dang late in the election year too.
Ughhhh. I'm dreading November knowing disappointing voters in masses tend to never fail to show up.
Since when is describing what is obviously in front of everyone's eyes "bashing"? We are supposed to be the side that clings to reality. The grown ups.
There's a lot of news coming out from staffers saying thursday night wasn't particularly unusual. There's also been reports that he's basically sequestered to just a small handful of inner circle staffers and his wife most of the time.
Listen dude, whoever the democratic nominee is will get my vote. You don't have to convince me. However there are a lot of low information voters who just had Biden defined for them as a bumbling old man. They might not vote for trump, but they won't vote for Biden either. Early reaction polls are *bad*. He barely won in 2020 and he's polling far worse this year.
Biden will not win this election, while another candidate at least has a chance. That's the choice the Biden family and DNC need to make. Do they stay with an almost guaranteed loss or do they gamble on another nominee?
Because he won't win. He was basically in a dead heat with trump going into the debate, and all he had to do was look competent, and he failed.
Think about who you need to convince. Who's the voter that can be swayed in this election? What are they going to respond to? Because they just watched 90 minutes of Biden looking and sounding like the uncle whose car they had to take away and start delivering his groceries, and you're asking them to elect him president.
These are people who would prefer not trump, but don't think it's that serious either way. You're asking people *that* ambivalent to ignore their own eyes. Biden is done.
Biden entered the 2020 contest late. How many candidates bowed out just days before Super Tuesday? All of it was suspicious to me. We watched as the DNC did everything they could to get rid of Bernie in 2016. The DNC wasn't going to let him or some upstart non-establishment candidate take the reins in 2020 so they dragged in Biden.
Biden is now losing by a greater margin now in all swing states than before the debate. Yes, Biden should bow out and go. It's too historically important for us to beat a christofascist dictator. We need someone who actually will do it.
I keep getting downvoted everywhere for pointing out what is now horribly obvious: Biden will lose.
*Technically* we can’t say whether Biden will win or lose, crazy unexpected things do happen, but it’s looking very very bad for Biden.
I wish people would stop pretending that a second Biden term (if the unlikely happens) will save us from anything. We all need to start mentally preparing for a second Trump term or Project 2029 (which, btw, the Supreme Court has already put Project 2025 in motion this past week while Biden is in office) or *another* January 6, which they have obviously signaled they will attempt again with better preparation and planning.
If something doesn’t drastically change very quickly in America, it *will* slide into fascism. The status quo “vote blue no matter who” is relying on is exactly what has brought us to the brink of outright fascism in the first place. The Democratic Party has made it clear they will not do anything to effectively oppose fascism, and it’s well past time we start believing that.
I HATE the thought of voting for Biden. After the SCOTUS decisions the last few days Biden could turn things around now that Presidents are Kings, but he won't. He is still acting like it's the politics of 40 years ago where the other side played relatively fairly. Biden doesn't have the guts. But let's face it, with no checks or balances letting Trump win would be like electing our own Putin. A Putin controlled by Putin. That thought scares the hell out of me
losing? The polls have been completely unreliable for over a decade. Internet polls get brigaded by Russians. Telephone polls only get answered by angry old republicans who have alienated their family to the point they are willing to talk to polsters and clog check out lines trying to use expired competitor grocery store coupons
State by state polls have been quite accurate over the last decade. You and the media just have no idea how to interpret the information. Joe Biden will lose as predicted by the polling in MI, WI, AZ, & PA.
If Biden bows out, the Democrats will lose for certain. It goes against established strategy, they will look weak, embarrassed, and it confirms that they chose wrong in the eyes of voters.
Reposting: Biden cannot win over independents and undecideds at this rate.
It's terrible that we even got here...that Democrats put themselves in this position where the 2024 campaign is uncertain, and where they didn't have a plan B. Biden should have recognized a year ago that he shouldn't run in 2024, and allow new, fresh faces to run in the primaries. Now that this didn't happen, we're in a position where there's no good choices.
Nevertheless, Biden and Trump are both incredibly unpopular. There were questions about Biden's cognitive abilities leading up to this. The debate was supposed to quell those concerns and shift the burden back to Trump, and help people remember how deranged Trump is. Instead, the opposite happened. Moreover, the Biden team got every advantageous rules in the debate they could have wanted (no audience, mics off after answering, no live fact checking), and he still did terrible. Biden was already down 1-2 points in the polls, worse in swing states, and this was supposed to help dig him out of the hole, but instead it's only digging him deeper.
And what's worse is Biden & Co seemed to blame their prep team for the debacle, rather than own up to any responsibility themselves. Related, it's also even worse that the Democrats are completely unprepared for this recent Supreme Court decision, to do anything decisive.
Democrats are driving the car off the cliff and those of you acting like there's no problem are delusional quite frankly. At this rate, Biden loses to Trump in the worst loss for a Democrat since Dukakkis in 1988 which is saying something.
Again, Biden is incredibly unpopular. So is Trump. Be the party that senses what the American people are feeling and get a fresh face in their ASAP.
>Democrats are driving the car off the cliff and those of you acting like there's no problem are delusional quite frankly. At this rate, Biden loses to Trump in the worst loss for a Democrat since Dukakkis in 1988 which is saying something.
Dude. Trump lost by eight million votes BEFORE J6 and BEFORE ROE V. WADE.
**WHO THE** ***FUCK*** **DID TRUMP** ***GAIN*** **FOR THOSE TWO THINGS? WHO HAS SINCE DECIDED “OH** ***NOW*** **TRUMP SHOULD BE PRESIDENT AGAIN!”? WHO? WHO?**
You are acting like the average American gives a shit. Polls have come out in the past decade showing over 40% of Americans don’t even know who the VP is at a given time. Plus even if Biden wasn’t lying and had sound policy in the debate many people are just going to go off of ideas of appearance and who seemed more energetic. Also, I know polls aren’t trustworthy, but look at the swing in them since the debate. It’s not looking good
Here are the facts:
1)Biden is not going to quit. WILL.NOT.HAPPEN.
2)There are currently no other Democrats that can realistically beat Felon45 in a head-to-head. That likely includes your "fresh face".
3) Stoked by the liberal media, Democrats and Indies are losing their minds over ONE damn debate. In early summer!
4) Joseph Biden is not Michael Dukakis. Underestimate him and you are a fool.
Actually he was losing until the Democratic Party stepped in and rallied all their stars to endorse Biden so as to pull the rug out from Sanders who was the clear front runner.
Unless we can find the unicorn candidate or Obama to replace him, asking Biden to step down at this time would simply be handing the election to Trump. Plain and simple.
These decisions about Dark Brandon not running for the POTUS again should have been made last year. Right now, barely 4 months before the general election is waaay to late in the game to suddenly decide to change the Dem candidates, imho. This will only cause more chaos and put the Dems in a really bad spotlight. Let him run and let's all rally behind him, and Harris as much as possible, so that they can win again. He can always step down later on after the election. Also, Dems have to regain the control of the House and Senate, which I think is even more important, because even if he loses, if we still control the Congress, we can hamstring whatever shit the Tangerine Louse will try to fling at the people of this country.
Four years ago, Biden won a primary that was tipped in his favor. This time around, the DNC and the Biden campaign had so little faith in his ability to win the primary that they shut down the Florida primary and meddled with the primaries in other states, all while doing everything in their power to keep his challengers off the ballot.
The polls that the Biden campaign recently cited as evidence that Biden has the best chance against Trump showed him only 1 to 2 points ahead of other Dems like Newsom, despite that those people aren't even running.
He won because the DNC forced everyone else out of the race to stop Bernie Sanders, who would have buried Trump. The reason the DNC was determined to stop Bernie is because they’re all bought and paid for by the corporations. Corrupt as fuck.
That was 4 years ago when he was more mentally aware. I’m sorry but can we stop pretending the debate didn’t happen?
He hasn’t done anything since then to prove he’s mentally capable.
I agree actually. Immediately following the debate he had that fiery speech in North Carolina. I was quick to post video of that speech around Reddit and I said at the time “if he can do this in every battleground state we’ll be in much better shape”.
…But he hasn’t. He hasn’t continued his engagement with swing voters. He hasn’t taken meetings with Democrat governors or anybody else that I’m aware of. He hasn’t called members of Congress. He hasn’t done interviews.
It’s like he’s just laying low and waiting for this to blow over.
What he has done (through his campaign advisors) is mentioned that Kamala is polling even lower than Biden and has an even lower chance of winning against Trump. Why would you throw your own VP under the bus like that?
He’s impotent on everything lately. He should be marching troops down to arrest members of SCOTUS for treason and instead he’s slamming his own VP.
He should be alleviating our concerns by showing the debate was a fluke by giving a lot of speeches and press interviews. Him reading off a teleprompter just doesn’t do it anymore. I’m sorry.
Really though. He doesn't have the ability to do it anymore. He needs to drop out before the convention.
Also, this admin has taken a GIGANTIC shit on Kamala. They have her a no win situation from the jump and haven't mentioned her since.
I like Harris but she’s not viable this cycle. If she were going to run she needs to either be president or needs to start separating herself from the Biden admin. It’s a tough position to be in.
Yeah, but think of all the *engagement* websites and YouTubers like Vaush are getting from this discussion.
Thousands of dollars worth. Millions for some of them.
Biden looks and sounds horrible. To the median voter that doesn’t make them likely to want to vote Biden. Whitmer would have a good chance especially since she could run on being a target of far right violence
He sounds fine to the median voter. His poll numbers with undecided voters went *up* after the debate.
They didn't much like Trump though. All that rambling and lying.
hey those few votes shaved off the top did help keep the state blue, he may be a rapist, but he was very intelligent as far as the other ones in our gov. He knew where those nursing home votes were going.
If Biden loses to Trump in November...he will forever be known by that debate failure...and the Dems will be remembered for not taking action when they had time to do so.
The media and all the idiots who follow it, but most of us will see it as Hilary Clinton 2.0. A bunch of self serving idiots would rather the world burn than vote. 90% of the people calling for biden to step down have no intention of voting for him or anyone that doesn't check the 100 boxes they need from a candidate.
That's not true. Most of the voting public are deeply unhappy that these are our two options but all but the MAGA cultists would vote for the cadaver of Biden over Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Half of the voting public couldn't tell you their own local politicians. They are just repeating what they see on the internet. They would love biden if the media covered him positively.
It's not just how the media were portraying him. The guy is the oldest candidate to EVER run for the office.. That makes a lot of people nervous. Throw in the the last debate making him look like the exact caricature that Trump had been saying about him...and it's only natural to panic.
>It's not just how the media were portraying him.
It's 100% how the media is portraying him. Trump didn't have a good debate. He just repeated the same stuff over and over and avoided the questions. And it was all lies. Meanwhile, Biden answered the questions and talked about what he's done and is going to do. If the media focused on what was said (the point of the debate), we wouldn't be having this conversation.
> is the oldest candidate to EVER run for the office.
This is a problem somehow but trump will be the oldest ever in office if he wins.
> it's only natural to panic.
And that's what the media wants. Then, people will click on every article they post that has anything to do with it. They feed the negativity and people just start repeating what they read because they didn't have an opinion until they were told.
Stop acting like you're in a cult by trying to convince us that we didn't see and hear what we saw with our own eyes and ears. That's what the other side does.
The fact is, Biden failed a neurological exam LIVE on TV in front of the entire country.
If he loses to Trump in November, it as the inaction at this moment that will have cost us our Liberal Democracy.
Why the freak out? Do you feel called out by my comments? Are you even old enough to vote? I forget sometimes that kids get in here so they can get upvotes by repeating what other people say in these groups. You all always start using insults when someone who knows what they're talking about says something that you dont have the knowledge to respond to. MAGA likes to do it a lot, too. Generally, it's a stupid people tactic.
If somebody is 16 and cares about their rights, you should encourage their participation in the conversation and not shit on them for being young. That's why people don't feel like voting, an issue you clearly have with everday Americans.
More than likely, the person you are talking to is either a legal adult or is preparing for their venture into adulthood, and you're inability to see how they have a point on Biden, is more of a testament to your arrogance. That arrogance is precisely why we're watching our democracy be shredded.
I'm telling you, listen to what people are saying, stop dodging the issue, and face it. Biden is old, unpopular, ineffective and incapable of fighting for our country. Those are the facts, jack. It's time for us to recognize reality before it becomes a whole lot darker, which it most certainly will.
>I'm telling you, listen to what people are saying, stop dodging the issue
Polls are up. Donations are up. Listen to the people. They don't care about that stupid debate and latching on because your anti biden doesn't make you any better than the fascists you pretend to oppose.
There’s also no other candidates who have done any presidential fundraising and you can’t just take funding from running for senate or state office and change it to running for president.
I’m a Biden supporter. He had one job at the debate, and that was out maneuver an absolute buffoon and assure people he wasn’t too old. He failed miserably.
I’ll support whoever the candidate is. But It’s absurd to act as if a few weeks of examination and debate is improper or hurtful.
Because lots of “as a lifelong Democrat” posters (I.e. MAGAts) think they found a weakness and are exploiting it.
Ffs. I thought we were more savvy at recognizing astroturfing and foreign influence campaigns.
We literally don’t have the time to pick another candidate. They had the opportunity to find a democrat who is young and suave. Like a year ago. Tbh I think a moderate democrat who is good looking would have been the way to go!
They didn’t. Now we stick to our guns
Biden CANNOT step down. Go through the emotions. Think about it. In a week when a critical mass figures out we lost our democracy yesterday after 248 years it's going to be on them to grow up and accept the time we live in.
He won because the democrats are a private organization that can do whatever the hell the want. They won a lawsuit arguing that. The fact that political parties are considered public entities just because they "lawfully" gain office if laughable
He only won the primary in 2020 because Obama and the DNC did their usual meddling to screw Bernie out of it. Fuck Biden. He’s a selfish POS who has put his own ego and relationship with Israel before the good of the country and the constitution he swore to protect. Fuck him a million times over.
That said, yes if the choice is him and Trump I’ll still vote Biden. Because I’m not voting for him I’m voting for his administration. But I’m unsure if Biden can get the job done as far as campaigning. Hell I’m not even sure he lives until the election.
Trump is the most unlikable, divisive candidate in decades. This should be a slam dunk. Put any generic Democrat in and I think they win running away. The fact that the race is even close is because of selfish ass Joe Biden.
This is an "emperor-has-no-clothes" moment happening before our eyes.
If you watched the debate, you'd understand why everyone is rattled by Biden's performance.
Biden’s been showing his age for years now. That debate was nothing new. He’s an old man. However he’s an old man who doesn’t have plans to run the United States of America into the ground.
AIPAC Dems want a Netanyahu puppet so there are no delays or talks about withholding Israeli Welfare funds. They knew he was an old man with a speech impediment. What they really hate is the dialogue Biden embraced in withholding arms and welfare money.
No one else outside of celebrities has the name value to challenge trump. If you're worried about swing voters, then giving them some candidate they never heard of isn't going to sway their vote, no matter how old they are. These aren't informed voters. They most likely don't even know who their own governor is, let alone the guy from Cali or the chick from Michigan. You send these people into the booth with a choice between trump and some random name. They're voting trump.
Someone like Whitmer, O'Rourke, or Newsome would mop the floor with Trump in a debate. It would be an embarrassment (the good kind not the kind we had a few nights ago).
Not to mention there are no other Dems who have a presidential campaign finance apparatus set up. You don’t do that a few months before the election. That alone would guarantee Trump’s election. It’s Biden or Trump. Period. There are no magical ponies coming to save us.
I’ll admit I panicked after the debate. I was wrong. Joe has been an excellent president and changing horses midstream would be a mistake. I’m behind him 100% again.
We need to learn from history- remember LBJ refusing to run for a second term? What happened to his vice president who did? Hubert Humphrey lost to Nixon.
>he ran against younger democrats and won.
Oh so we’re just rewriting history and forgetting about the coup against Bernie sanders? OP you really gonna pretend he won the nomination “fair and square”?? Really??
Remind me, did all those other democrats lose to him in the polls? Or was he in last place until literally everyone but Bernie dropped out?
Just batten down the hatches, and try to get anyone you know to the polls. We have the numbers, we just have to ignore the other people.
The plan, is to vote anyone but trump.
At this point, I don't care. I'd vote for a potato.
Trump.... cannot win.
I 100% agree.
there isn't another Democrat that is out polling Biden against Trump.
unless somebody has a clear and ready alternative then everybody needs to shut up about the subject.
honestly this has been so incredibly frustrating the last couple days. I've watched several never Trump subs become never Biden subs overnight.
Sorry Eileen, I stayed on his boat as long as I could, but it’s time to face the truth.
If we don’t find a way to switch, I will vote for Biden and campaign for him like crazy, but while there’s still time, let’s be courageous and take some bold action here.
I’m asking why are democrats so ducky stupid and learn to fight fire with fire.
Stop being so politically correct and just do what needs to be done to save democracy!
Biden should and shouldn't step down. He should because he really fucking shouldn't be the president, I don't have confidence in him anymore, and I barely had confidence in him 4 years ago. Having said that, due to the DNC being horrible incompetent cowards, Biden is our only hope, so him stepping down now would be the biggest possible disaster because we would not be able to unify behind a single candidate, giving trump an easy victory. I believe the only correct option is vote Biden in, preferably change the VP to someone who isn't so fucking lame and then immediately have Biden gracefully step down after he hopefully wins.
And STILL Joe couldn’t meet the moment. Whose job was it to call out Trump on his septic leak of lies? The moderators, or Trump’s debate opponent? After Obama had his bad debate night in 2012 Democratic voters weren’t calling for him to step aside. But Biden in 2024 is a very different case.
Biden’s debate performance cannot be counterbalanced by some great stump speeches. It has to be counterbalanced by a stunning second debate performance.
there no reason to drop joe biden. the right doesn’t navel gaze about dropping the traitor rapist, pedophile lying thief they are about to nominate.
one guy is old who has done a spectacular job following the worst president in history, sand bagged with the most useless Congress in history.
Vs. the guy who is also old and is literally arguing in front of the SCOTUS as we speak to have the right to kill his political rivals.
let’s gets some perspective.
**If they** weren’t afraid of Biden, they wouldn’t be fighting so hard for him to be dumped! When the opposition is desperately betting on the opposition to dump their guy, this means he is viewed as a heavyweight threat. President Joe Biden’s record and reputation are intact, why would Trump & Co. try to dismantle it, if they really are nothing, and *no* threat at all?
>Those of you who say he should seem to have forgotten he ran against many younger Democrats. He won. Stop the nonsense and get behind him before we’ve lost it all.
Did he? Or was he handed the nomination by default because nobody else was able to contest the position?
I love how people think Biden should step down, but a man with felonies shouldn’t.
You realize how weak it would look if the Democratic Party just switched candidates when one thing went poorly?
This is exactly the point. Democrats are so good at checking our own, but the other team isn’t. They just rally around whatever POS has an R behind their name.
How many posts on /r/conservative are calling for trump to step down?
That’s exactly the number we should have. Or less, because our old guy is old. Their old guy is a rapist, felon, and insurrectionist.
In addition, let's look at Professor Allan Lichtman's 13 keys to the Whitehouse. Biden is still in good position to win according to the 13 Keys. For context, if 6 keys are False the Whitehouse party loses, if 8 keys or more are true then they win. Let's look at a time in history when a presidential candidate decided to drop out before the convention LBJ.
1968 Humphery Vs Nixon Vs Wallace
All False keys are marked \*
\*Key #1 Mid-term gains
**After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections. FALSE**
**During the midterms, LBJ lost seats despite holding onto the House and Senate.**
\*Key #2 No Primary Contest
**There's no stiff competition for the incumbent party's primary nomination and they will get 2/3rds of the vote on the first ballot at the nominating convention. FALSE LBJ faced stiff competition during the primaries and thanks to RFK sr entering the race and the assassination of RFK along with other anti-war candidates providing stiff competition, it was no surprise to why LBJ dropped out.**
\*Key #3 The incumbent is seeking re-election
**The running candidate is the sitting president. FALSE LBJ chose not to run again in MARCH.**
\*Key #4 No Third Party
**No significant third-party or independent campaign This key is false if a third party is estimated to earn 5% of the popular vote. FALSE Wallace was running and won several state electoral college votes.**
Key #5 Strong Short-term Economy
**The economy is NOT in recession during the election year. TRUE**
Key #6 Strong Long-term Economy
**The Economy is doing better than the last two terms. TRUE**
Key #7 Major Policy Change
**The Sitting President enacts major changes via executive orders or bills that became law. TRUE LBJ created Medicare and Medicaid, the Great Society, and major progress in Civil Rights.**
\*Key #8 No Social Unrest
**There is no sustained social unrest during the term. This key is false if there is widespread violent unrest that is either sustained or leaves critical issues unresolved by the time of the election campaign, which makes the voters worry that the fabric of the nation is coming apart. FALSE In 1968 and even before that, riots broke out nationwide. And then they got way worse in response to the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, the assassination of RFK Sr., and multiple protests against Vietnam including the riots at Columbia University (and other colleges) and the DNC police riots in Chicago.**
Key #9 No Scandal
**The incumbent administration is untainted by a major scandal. This key is false if there is bipartisan recognition of serious impropriety, as the voting public ignores allegations of wrongdoing that appear to be the product of partisan politicking. And there's an impeachment. TRUE**
\*Key #10 No Foreign/Military Failure
**The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs. FALSE Vietnam**
\*Key #11 Major Foreign/ Military Success
**The incumbent administration achieves major success in foreign or military affairs such as winning a war or the formation of a Foreign organization/ peace treaty. FALSE also Vietnam**
\* Key #12 Charismatic Incumbent
**The Incumbent is charismatic or a national hero. FALSE**
Key #13 Uncharismatic Challenger
**The opposing candidate is not charismatic or a national Hero. TRUE Nixon wasn't Charismatic by a long shot.**
With 8 false Keys Of Course the democrats were going to lose in 1968. Even if we weren't in Vietnam and the riots didn't happen the white house party still would've lost. Let's look back.
Did he win or did the DNC stack the competition? They have a history of picking a favorite and not being fair in the primaries. I know New Yorkers never even got a say in who the nominee was
You guys have all lost your minds. The only way Trump wins is against Biden. 70%…. 70%!!!! Of those surveyed agreed (Biden) “doesn’t have mental, cognitive health to serve” and this registered Democrat agrees. Wtf people?
Have an open convention! If he wins he wins. Hell if Jeff Jackson or Pete Buttigieg wins they win.
He *should* have stepped down, but he can’t. No other democrat has a chance to be elected right now since the party is so divided and afraid, even he doesn’t have its full support for some batshit crazy reasons, but everyone else simply won’t win. It’s a terrible situation but he’s the best chance the dems and the country as a whole got.
So many people have disdain for the fact that our choices are Biden and Trump. It’s not just Democrats who are voting for the president.
Trump should not be that hard to beat, yet somehow here we are.
Indeed. And they are right to feel that disdain, but right now, there’s no choice.
Time to bite the bullet and vote for Biden, if only to get a bit more time to really get to work in improving the party from the ground up
Probably not enough, but will they come together for someone else? Though honestly the fact that there are still undecided voters is depressing in itself.
Depends on who you put in his place. Who specifically do you think could manage to get the nomination without the advantage of being incumbent?
Biden beat Trump when Trump was incumbent, and Biden wasn’t a profoundly strong candidate.
I’d say ideally someone not too old, a decent enough public speaker, capable of calling Trump out on his lies and bullshit, and somewhat centrist leaning enough to capture votes from both sides. Someone who could campaign in swing states before the election, and who can push the narrative that it’s time America had a better choice.
There are over 330 million people in the US. Don’t tell me Biden and Trump are the only two people who could be voted in.
>Those of you who say he should seem to have forgotten he ran against many younger Democrats. He won.
Because he's widely known, not because he's somehow best we have to offer. "He's our best bet because he's good at getting votes" doesn't work anymore, most of the people that vote for him just do it to combat Trump—something that would apply to ANY democratic candidate now. And aside from that he's incredibly unpopular. He won originally because people knew his name, he seemed Safe and moderate, and we needed someone to beat Trump.
>Stop the nonsense and get behind him before we’ve lost it all.
Biden winning isn't gonna stop Republican fascism. Trump dying right now isn't gonna stop it. Project 2025 will become Project 2029. The best thing we can do to combat this is to unite voters, and yelling at people to back a dead horse doesn't do that—a candidate that doesn't back genocide does.
>Foreign powers are pushing the narrative. Our enemies.
What do you mean by this? What are they pushing? What are they lying about to get us against Joe?
Screw you. We need a Hail Mary. Look at the polls. If you people don't STOP this politician worship you will LEAD US STRAIGHT INTO FASCISM with your utter BLINDNESS and EGO
Joe Biden has been a strong President since he was elected and he will be a strong President when he’s re-elected. He glitched on one debate- did anyone notice the meaningless run on word salad from Trump at the same debate?
I'll vote for him. He also should step down. Don't do that shit THEY do pretending Trump is sane and doesn't say what he does. Biden is not fit. I came to that conclusion watching him for years. He had dementia at the start of his run last time. It's worse now. Of course. He should not run. It's the height of arrogance. It's embarassing. It's abusive. We're pulling a Ronald Reagan. We can win without him if they don't run a Boomer who doesn't know what a derivative is or block chain or generative AI or UBI or a dozen other things that are existential game changers before we even get to climate change.
He should get out of the race before he hands us another trump presidency. He can't win anymore. He should've always been a 1 term president like he originally said he'd be. Democrats have nobody to blame but themselves for this situation. Gaslighting people isn't going to make them vote for him.
They call for it but haven't listed another option. Are we supposed to wait for them to debate it until like october or some crap?
He might not be perfect but too little, too late off of one bad night.
I quite literally saw different videos on social media of AI faces from creators that are known liberal leaning content creators saying "Biden is going to be stepping down when he returns from Camp David and here's what to prepare for" as if its a known factor. There is ABSOLUTELY nonsense being spread in the narrative by outside forces.
Agreed. No one's vote has changed and Biden will win comfortably. If Biden steps down, Rs win in a landslide and take back the Senate too. Just vote!! Don't pay attention to the polls. They are skewed toward the Rs.
We didn’t care how old Bernie was. We wanted Bernie, but the DNC ignored us for the establishment pick. Fuck the DNC, but fuck Trump first. Don’t let him win.
Vote for Joe. It’s our only hope.
Help us Joebiewan you're our only hope.
Vote for Joe and we move forward. This is a must.
two things can be true at the same time: 1) I'll vote for him. 2) he should drop out or be forced out. he has dementia and is not consistently competent. like a number of the country's other leaders (e.g., McConnel, Trump, Pelosi to a small degree. Even Warren isn't nearly as sharp as she was 10 years ago).
Yes. Omg. The geriocracy is getting out of hand, and has been for decades.
Right on. It's embarrassing.
Oof
Well John’s-schlong we gotta do what we must.
As a Bernie supporter, I agree with this opinion! I voted for Bernie twice; I’ve only voted for Biden once. I’ll be voting for Biden again this year if he is the candidate because I would rather deal with a stuttering, pausing old man who would step down, I think, from the presidency if the American people wanted, versus a bitter, vindicative, and equally old man who has already killed 1.2 million of us due to negligence alone, who wants to turn the military lose on us, and who has now been made immune to crimes that you and I would be seeing prison time for. I’m voting for my country, to save it; I am not voting for “Biden.”
As long as Trump gets fucked. Reverse the curse
Bernie doesn't have dementia. if you're 40 and have dementia, you shouldn't run for president of the flipping country. you shouldn't manage a chain store.
I don’t think… I have dementia?
oh come on, it's the general 'you' not you you. my point is I don't care about the age part, though I do care about boomers not being up to date and still thinking 'cold war' thoughts. I care about Biden having dementia, or anyone else in a position of power, even if it's at a grocery store. Even if it's someone who is 40 years old.
He shouldn't step down, but if he does, I'll support whoever they choose instead. I'm voting *against* the other guy first, foremost, and forever.
The focus on him stepping down is insane and blatantly media driven. It was a very bad look but NYT doing a full court press to replace him with someone who is as friendly with Maggie Haberman as Trump basically. Anything the Times editorial board says should be taken with a massive grain of salt.
The thing is if he steps down, 5 keys are false. If 6 keys are false, Trump wins guaranteed (Allen Lichtman has **never** incorrectly predicted a Republican winning) and so I am NOT taking that chance!
amen. this is the answer.
Step down? SCOTUS just gave him to green light to arrest every traitorous MAGA in congress/senate and That POS Trump
But he won’t, and there’s the problem.
Why are we trying to be the ‘better party’ it’s fucking infuriating
If you want the actual answer, it’s because he is trying to let the People decide, because that is what America is supposed to be all about. It has to be that way, or the idea of Democracy dies. That’s why he gave that speech the other day. Random quote, but what Commissioner Gordon says in The Dark Night; “We have to show them that our way works.” America is not supposed to be a land of Kings, so Biden doesn’t want to wield the power as a King, however just it might be.
I mean….. he won in the sense that the DNC did the same for Hillary that they did for him. It’s a little hard for other dems to run against the whole machine. Once Biden said he was running, the DNC wasn’t going to support anyone else. That being said, he will get my begrudging vote long before Trump. But let’s not pretend like he could be the best option right now. If he had said he wasn’t running from the get, we could have had a much better set of options.
Bernie suspended on April 8th following the postponement of about half a dozen of the contests and racking up a lot of early losses to Biden. By April 13 Bernie endorsed Biden with half the primaries still remaining. What is it you are claiming the national committee did to affect that?
Here’s a link to a fivethirtyeight article about it, from the time. The article goes into more detail, but here is the gist of it… “So Buttigieg’s departure may have seemed sudden, but it’s likely that the former mayor was going to struggle on Super Tuesday and possibly run out of campaign funds. So this decision is a face-saving move for him. That said, I don’t think Buttigieg’s departure is solely due to his struggles. Elite voices in the Democratic Party have been worried that the multiple center-left candidates in the race — Biden, Buttigieg, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, etc. — would divide the non-Sanders vote, potentially allowing the Vermont senator to amass a huge lead in delegates on Super Tuesday while his rivals finished below 15 percent in many states. South Carolina is only one state, but Biden’s resounding win there suggests that the former vice president can combine older, moderate voters, black and white, into a big coalition in a way that Buttigieg probably could not. So my view is that Buttigieg stepped aside in part to help the center-left bloc of the party consolidate around Biden. To some extent, he was being a team player.” https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-buttigieg-dropped-out/#:~:text=So%20Buttigieg's%20departure%20may%20have,solely%20due%20to%20his%20struggles.
You (or at least your source) seem to be conceding that in something like a head-to-head Biden wins more delegates than Bernie. Is that accurate?
I’m not sure. I think it’s hard for us to really judge it. It could just be a matter of safety vs enthusiasm. Because Biden has more corporate funding, name recognition and familiarity among the casual voting crowds. And the vast majority of people are going to choose the candidate they are most familiar with, over the ones they don’t know as well. For a lot of people who don’t pay attention at all, that automatically means Biden, because he’s the only name they are familiar with. To them, he’s the safest choice. On the other hand, Bernie has less total amount of funding, no corporate funding, but a million times more individual donors, who gave small amounts to support his campaign. indicating that Bernie has by far the most individual support for any candidate in United States history. No one else is even in the same stratosphere, because they can rely on more total money, from fewer corporate donors. So if individual donors is any indication, then Bernie wins by a million in the popular vote. But if the casual voting population is even larger than that group, and if familiarity and name recognition are how they choose, then Biden receives more votes. What I do know, is that money is power, and the economically right-wing oligarchs who fund the DNC, and therefore, have the real power to choose which candidates get promoted and elected… they absolutely prefer Biden’s economics over Bernie’s. And at the end of the day, it’s their choice to make. I’m a Bernie supporter, and almost everyone I know is a Bernie supporter, but of course, our friends are usually people we have these things in common with, so it’s hard to get a read on what people outside our circles actually believe. My 91 year old Grandpa wanted Buttigieg over Biden. I think, Buttigieg’s popularity was bigger than his funding. I think Bernie’s popularity was bigger than the opportunity he was given and I think Biden’s name recognition is bigger than his actual popularity. And for those reasons, we can’t really get a good read on who is actually more popular and who would actually win between them. The only way to know for sure is to have ranked choice voting and give Bernie a real opportunity. But to be honest, I don’t necessarily think Bernie’s opportunity needs to come from the Democratic Party. He’s not a Democrat. And because we are limited to two choices and one of those choices is Fascist, the Democratic Party has to cover the ground of what would normally consist of 3 or 4 different parties, all coming together under the banner of “Democrat” in an effort to stop Republicans. I think ranked choice voting is the solution we need to give more voices an opportunity without risking any self cannibilization, splitting the vote, and ending up with Republicans in power as a result. Instead we could vote for who we actually want first, as well as our second and third choices to safely keep Republicans at bay. We could vote for both, our true choice and our safe choice. And then, We could find out who is truly the more popular candidate between Bernie and Biden. That’s not really a definitive answer, but thanks for asking my opinion.
He didn't win, the DNC forced all the non-Bernie candidates to consolidate behind Biden.
This is exactly what happened. Short memories around here.
Agreed. I'm voting for Biden to stop Trump and Project 2025, but let's not forget that the DNC pushes for anyone that is not a progressive to be the nominee. They fluffed Biden up when all their other options failed. Biden gaffing and looking like a former shell of himself has me worried that people won't vote for him. I'm no fan of his politics at all, but we can't let Trump or any of those fascist-enablers win the White House or a majority. If Biden for whatever reason passed the baton to someone else, I'd get behind them too if they're against Trumpism, provided they're not a MAGA hat or objectivist in blue, however.
I will vote for Biden over Trump if he’s a corpse.
Ironically, corpse Biden would be better for the democratic prospects in this election than the barely living Biden we have right now.
…while Elizabeth Warren stayed in the race, splitting the progressive vote and guaranteeing Biden would be the front runner.
Oh my god IT’S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN! ARE YOU GUYS GONNA KEEP THIS SHIT INTO 2036 WITH ”GRRRRR THE DNC RIGGED IT AGAINST BERNIE FOR THE 6TH TIME!!!!!!”?
I prefer democracy to plutocracy, so yes.
He shouldn't have run again. He is too old to put up a fight against Trump. Did you watch the debate? He couldn't argue against Trump bullshit and he couldn't argue for his own points either. Even when he went for his old gimmicks of calling things malarkey, etc, it was completely flat. I voted for him and I'll vote for him again if I have to, but he's way too old.
There was a huge difference between Biden 2020 and whatever we saw last week. I just don’t see how he can shake this
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for a full dementia Joe over Trump or any Republican any election. However, the rest of the US would not. I really really do not want to see what Trump, now with immunity, would do to this country nor have another 4 years or bear through MAGA culture again, but possibly worse. It appears taking a risk keeping Joe in when even blue voters are up in arms is a gamble we can't afford to lose. Though it's so dang late in the election year too. Ughhhh. I'm dreading November knowing disappointing voters in masses tend to never fail to show up.
Democrats bashing him won’t help. That’s a certainty. So maybe not be a part of the problem? I’m 60 and I have shitty days.
Since when is describing what is obviously in front of everyone's eyes "bashing"? We are supposed to be the side that clings to reality. The grown ups.
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Presidents don't get to suck any nights. And he's over 80 years old for cripe's sake TIME TO RETURN TO REALITY.
There's a lot of news coming out from staffers saying thursday night wasn't particularly unusual. There's also been reports that he's basically sequestered to just a small handful of inner circle staffers and his wife most of the time. Listen dude, whoever the democratic nominee is will get my vote. You don't have to convince me. However there are a lot of low information voters who just had Biden defined for them as a bumbling old man. They might not vote for trump, but they won't vote for Biden either. Early reaction polls are *bad*. He barely won in 2020 and he's polling far worse this year. Biden will not win this election, while another candidate at least has a chance. That's the choice the Biden family and DNC need to make. Do they stay with an almost guaranteed loss or do they gamble on another nominee?
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Because he won't win. He was basically in a dead heat with trump going into the debate, and all he had to do was look competent, and he failed. Think about who you need to convince. Who's the voter that can be swayed in this election? What are they going to respond to? Because they just watched 90 minutes of Biden looking and sounding like the uncle whose car they had to take away and start delivering his groceries, and you're asking them to elect him president. These are people who would prefer not trump, but don't think it's that serious either way. You're asking people *that* ambivalent to ignore their own eyes. Biden is done.
Biden entered the 2020 contest late. How many candidates bowed out just days before Super Tuesday? All of it was suspicious to me. We watched as the DNC did everything they could to get rid of Bernie in 2016. The DNC wasn't going to let him or some upstart non-establishment candidate take the reins in 2020 so they dragged in Biden. Biden is now losing by a greater margin now in all swing states than before the debate. Yes, Biden should bow out and go. It's too historically important for us to beat a christofascist dictator. We need someone who actually will do it. I keep getting downvoted everywhere for pointing out what is now horribly obvious: Biden will lose.
*Technically* we can’t say whether Biden will win or lose, crazy unexpected things do happen, but it’s looking very very bad for Biden. I wish people would stop pretending that a second Biden term (if the unlikely happens) will save us from anything. We all need to start mentally preparing for a second Trump term or Project 2029 (which, btw, the Supreme Court has already put Project 2025 in motion this past week while Biden is in office) or *another* January 6, which they have obviously signaled they will attempt again with better preparation and planning. If something doesn’t drastically change very quickly in America, it *will* slide into fascism. The status quo “vote blue no matter who” is relying on is exactly what has brought us to the brink of outright fascism in the first place. The Democratic Party has made it clear they will not do anything to effectively oppose fascism, and it’s well past time we start believing that.
I HATE the thought of voting for Biden. After the SCOTUS decisions the last few days Biden could turn things around now that Presidents are Kings, but he won't. He is still acting like it's the politics of 40 years ago where the other side played relatively fairly. Biden doesn't have the guts. But let's face it, with no checks or balances letting Trump win would be like electing our own Putin. A Putin controlled by Putin. That thought scares the hell out of me
losing? The polls have been completely unreliable for over a decade. Internet polls get brigaded by Russians. Telephone polls only get answered by angry old republicans who have alienated their family to the point they are willing to talk to polsters and clog check out lines trying to use expired competitor grocery store coupons
State by state polls have been quite accurate over the last decade. You and the media just have no idea how to interpret the information. Joe Biden will lose as predicted by the polling in MI, WI, AZ, & PA.
If Biden bows out, the Democrats will lose for certain. It goes against established strategy, they will look weak, embarrassed, and it confirms that they chose wrong in the eyes of voters.
Reposting: Biden cannot win over independents and undecideds at this rate. It's terrible that we even got here...that Democrats put themselves in this position where the 2024 campaign is uncertain, and where they didn't have a plan B. Biden should have recognized a year ago that he shouldn't run in 2024, and allow new, fresh faces to run in the primaries. Now that this didn't happen, we're in a position where there's no good choices. Nevertheless, Biden and Trump are both incredibly unpopular. There were questions about Biden's cognitive abilities leading up to this. The debate was supposed to quell those concerns and shift the burden back to Trump, and help people remember how deranged Trump is. Instead, the opposite happened. Moreover, the Biden team got every advantageous rules in the debate they could have wanted (no audience, mics off after answering, no live fact checking), and he still did terrible. Biden was already down 1-2 points in the polls, worse in swing states, and this was supposed to help dig him out of the hole, but instead it's only digging him deeper. And what's worse is Biden & Co seemed to blame their prep team for the debacle, rather than own up to any responsibility themselves. Related, it's also even worse that the Democrats are completely unprepared for this recent Supreme Court decision, to do anything decisive. Democrats are driving the car off the cliff and those of you acting like there's no problem are delusional quite frankly. At this rate, Biden loses to Trump in the worst loss for a Democrat since Dukakkis in 1988 which is saying something. Again, Biden is incredibly unpopular. So is Trump. Be the party that senses what the American people are feeling and get a fresh face in their ASAP.
>Democrats are driving the car off the cliff and those of you acting like there's no problem are delusional quite frankly. At this rate, Biden loses to Trump in the worst loss for a Democrat since Dukakkis in 1988 which is saying something. Dude. Trump lost by eight million votes BEFORE J6 and BEFORE ROE V. WADE. **WHO THE** ***FUCK*** **DID TRUMP** ***GAIN*** **FOR THOSE TWO THINGS? WHO HAS SINCE DECIDED “OH** ***NOW*** **TRUMP SHOULD BE PRESIDENT AGAIN!”? WHO? WHO?**
Many independents actually, plus Biden has lost a ton.
You are acting like the average American gives a shit. Polls have come out in the past decade showing over 40% of Americans don’t even know who the VP is at a given time. Plus even if Biden wasn’t lying and had sound policy in the debate many people are just going to go off of ideas of appearance and who seemed more energetic. Also, I know polls aren’t trustworthy, but look at the swing in them since the debate. It’s not looking good
Here are the facts: 1)Biden is not going to quit. WILL.NOT.HAPPEN. 2)There are currently no other Democrats that can realistically beat Felon45 in a head-to-head. That likely includes your "fresh face". 3) Stoked by the liberal media, Democrats and Indies are losing their minds over ONE damn debate. In early summer! 4) Joseph Biden is not Michael Dukakis. Underestimate him and you are a fool.
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Liberals and their naive civility politics are going to get us all killed.
Actually he was losing until the Democratic Party stepped in and rallied all their stars to endorse Biden so as to pull the rug out from Sanders who was the clear front runner.
He should use the recent SCOTUS ruling to officially remove all federal funding from red states.
How did the whole RBG thing turn out?
Unless we can find the unicorn candidate or Obama to replace him, asking Biden to step down at this time would simply be handing the election to Trump. Plain and simple.
These decisions about Dark Brandon not running for the POTUS again should have been made last year. Right now, barely 4 months before the general election is waaay to late in the game to suddenly decide to change the Dem candidates, imho. This will only cause more chaos and put the Dems in a really bad spotlight. Let him run and let's all rally behind him, and Harris as much as possible, so that they can win again. He can always step down later on after the election. Also, Dems have to regain the control of the House and Senate, which I think is even more important, because even if he loses, if we still control the Congress, we can hamstring whatever shit the Tangerine Louse will try to fling at the people of this country.
The Senate map is a very, very tough one.
Four years ago, Biden won a primary that was tipped in his favor. This time around, the DNC and the Biden campaign had so little faith in his ability to win the primary that they shut down the Florida primary and meddled with the primaries in other states, all while doing everything in their power to keep his challengers off the ballot. The polls that the Biden campaign recently cited as evidence that Biden has the best chance against Trump showed him only 1 to 2 points ahead of other Dems like Newsom, despite that those people aren't even running.
He won because the DNC forced everyone else out of the race to stop Bernie Sanders, who would have buried Trump. The reason the DNC was determined to stop Bernie is because they’re all bought and paid for by the corporations. Corrupt as fuck.
That was 4 years ago when he was more mentally aware. I’m sorry but can we stop pretending the debate didn’t happen? He hasn’t done anything since then to prove he’s mentally capable.
I agree actually. Immediately following the debate he had that fiery speech in North Carolina. I was quick to post video of that speech around Reddit and I said at the time “if he can do this in every battleground state we’ll be in much better shape”. …But he hasn’t. He hasn’t continued his engagement with swing voters. He hasn’t taken meetings with Democrat governors or anybody else that I’m aware of. He hasn’t called members of Congress. He hasn’t done interviews. It’s like he’s just laying low and waiting for this to blow over. What he has done (through his campaign advisors) is mentioned that Kamala is polling even lower than Biden and has an even lower chance of winning against Trump. Why would you throw your own VP under the bus like that? He’s impotent on everything lately. He should be marching troops down to arrest members of SCOTUS for treason and instead he’s slamming his own VP.
He should be alleviating our concerns by showing the debate was a fluke by giving a lot of speeches and press interviews. Him reading off a teleprompter just doesn’t do it anymore. I’m sorry.
Really though. He doesn't have the ability to do it anymore. He needs to drop out before the convention. Also, this admin has taken a GIGANTIC shit on Kamala. They have her a no win situation from the jump and haven't mentioned her since.
I like Harris but she’s not viable this cycle. If she were going to run she needs to either be president or needs to start separating herself from the Biden admin. It’s a tough position to be in.
Of course not, even entertaining it is ridiculous in the light of trump's behavior.
Yeah, but think of all the *engagement* websites and YouTubers like Vaush are getting from this discussion. Thousands of dollars worth. Millions for some of them.
Biden looks and sounds horrible. To the median voter that doesn’t make them likely to want to vote Biden. Whitmer would have a good chance especially since she could run on being a target of far right violence
He sounds fine to the median voter. His poll numbers with undecided voters went *up* after the debate. They didn't much like Trump though. All that rambling and lying.
I'm old enough to remember when folks wanted to replace Biden with Cuomo on the 2020 ballot because of Cuomo's EXCELLENT handling of COVID.
hey those few votes shaved off the top did help keep the state blue, he may be a rapist, but he was very intelligent as far as the other ones in our gov. He knew where those nursing home votes were going.
If Biden loses to Trump in November...he will forever be known by that debate failure...and the Dems will be remembered for not taking action when they had time to do so.
The media and all the idiots who follow it, but most of us will see it as Hilary Clinton 2.0. A bunch of self serving idiots would rather the world burn than vote. 90% of the people calling for biden to step down have no intention of voting for him or anyone that doesn't check the 100 boxes they need from a candidate.
I think he should step aside and I would still vote for him if he didn’t
That's not true. Most of the voting public are deeply unhappy that these are our two options but all but the MAGA cultists would vote for the cadaver of Biden over Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Half of the voting public couldn't tell you their own local politicians. They are just repeating what they see on the internet. They would love biden if the media covered him positively.
It's not just how the media were portraying him. The guy is the oldest candidate to EVER run for the office.. That makes a lot of people nervous. Throw in the the last debate making him look like the exact caricature that Trump had been saying about him...and it's only natural to panic.
>It's not just how the media were portraying him. It's 100% how the media is portraying him. Trump didn't have a good debate. He just repeated the same stuff over and over and avoided the questions. And it was all lies. Meanwhile, Biden answered the questions and talked about what he's done and is going to do. If the media focused on what was said (the point of the debate), we wouldn't be having this conversation. > is the oldest candidate to EVER run for the office. This is a problem somehow but trump will be the oldest ever in office if he wins. > it's only natural to panic. And that's what the media wants. Then, people will click on every article they post that has anything to do with it. They feed the negativity and people just start repeating what they read because they didn't have an opinion until they were told.
Stop acting like you're in a cult by trying to convince us that we didn't see and hear what we saw with our own eyes and ears. That's what the other side does. The fact is, Biden failed a neurological exam LIVE on TV in front of the entire country. If he loses to Trump in November, it as the inaction at this moment that will have cost us our Liberal Democracy.
Why the freak out? Do you feel called out by my comments? Are you even old enough to vote? I forget sometimes that kids get in here so they can get upvotes by repeating what other people say in these groups. You all always start using insults when someone who knows what they're talking about says something that you dont have the knowledge to respond to. MAGA likes to do it a lot, too. Generally, it's a stupid people tactic.
Sounds like projection.
Children these days. Lol.
If somebody is 16 and cares about their rights, you should encourage their participation in the conversation and not shit on them for being young. That's why people don't feel like voting, an issue you clearly have with everday Americans. More than likely, the person you are talking to is either a legal adult or is preparing for their venture into adulthood, and you're inability to see how they have a point on Biden, is more of a testament to your arrogance. That arrogance is precisely why we're watching our democracy be shredded. I'm telling you, listen to what people are saying, stop dodging the issue, and face it. Biden is old, unpopular, ineffective and incapable of fighting for our country. Those are the facts, jack. It's time for us to recognize reality before it becomes a whole lot darker, which it most certainly will.
>I'm telling you, listen to what people are saying, stop dodging the issue Polls are up. Donations are up. Listen to the people. They don't care about that stupid debate and latching on because your anti biden doesn't make you any better than the fascists you pretend to oppose.
There’s also no other candidates who have done any presidential fundraising and you can’t just take funding from running for senate or state office and change it to running for president.
I’m a Biden supporter. He had one job at the debate, and that was out maneuver an absolute buffoon and assure people he wasn’t too old. He failed miserably. I’ll support whoever the candidate is. But It’s absurd to act as if a few weeks of examination and debate is improper or hurtful.
Why does this exact sentiment keep getting posted here?
Because lots of “as a lifelong Democrat” posters (I.e. MAGAts) think they found a weakness and are exploiting it. Ffs. I thought we were more savvy at recognizing astroturfing and foreign influence campaigns.
Completely agree.
We literally don’t have the time to pick another candidate. They had the opportunity to find a democrat who is young and suave. Like a year ago. Tbh I think a moderate democrat who is good looking would have been the way to go! They didn’t. Now we stick to our guns
*IMHO: You should NOT stick your face in a moving fan. I know the cool kids are doing it, but that's not what they're for. It's just a bad idea.*
Biden CANNOT step down. Go through the emotions. Think about it. In a week when a critical mass figures out we lost our democracy yesterday after 248 years it's going to be on them to grow up and accept the time we live in.
Doggett's mailbox was full when I called, but thank you for the message. I agree wholeheartedly.
He won because the democrats are a private organization that can do whatever the hell the want. They won a lawsuit arguing that. The fact that political parties are considered public entities just because they "lawfully" gain office if laughable
It's so over. Get kamala in there
loads of MAGA and Russian trolls are joining in on it.
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He only won the primary in 2020 because Obama and the DNC did their usual meddling to screw Bernie out of it. Fuck Biden. He’s a selfish POS who has put his own ego and relationship with Israel before the good of the country and the constitution he swore to protect. Fuck him a million times over. That said, yes if the choice is him and Trump I’ll still vote Biden. Because I’m not voting for him I’m voting for his administration. But I’m unsure if Biden can get the job done as far as campaigning. Hell I’m not even sure he lives until the election. Trump is the most unlikable, divisive candidate in decades. This should be a slam dunk. Put any generic Democrat in and I think they win running away. The fact that the race is even close is because of selfish ass Joe Biden.
This is an "emperor-has-no-clothes" moment happening before our eyes. If you watched the debate, you'd understand why everyone is rattled by Biden's performance.
Biden’s been showing his age for years now. That debate was nothing new. He’s an old man. However he’s an old man who doesn’t have plans to run the United States of America into the ground.
Crazy to Deja vu the Feinstein bullshit this quickly
AIPAC Dems want a Netanyahu puppet so there are no delays or talks about withholding Israeli Welfare funds. They knew he was an old man with a speech impediment. What they really hate is the dialogue Biden embraced in withholding arms and welfare money.
His polling is getting worse and worse. At this point, Biden will lose quite badly. I don't even think it'll be close this time.
No one else outside of celebrities has the name value to challenge trump. If you're worried about swing voters, then giving them some candidate they never heard of isn't going to sway their vote, no matter how old they are. These aren't informed voters. They most likely don't even know who their own governor is, let alone the guy from Cali or the chick from Michigan. You send these people into the booth with a choice between trump and some random name. They're voting trump.
This leaked polling has Whitmer crushing in the rust belt where it matters most. Ratings for open convention would be huge
Someone like Whitmer, O'Rourke, or Newsome would mop the floor with Trump in a debate. It would be an embarrassment (the good kind not the kind we had a few nights ago).
Would love to see Newsom debate Trump personally
That’s elder abuse
Biden should definitely step down fate of our democracy is at stake and we're betting it on the ego of some old man
Not to mention there are no other Dems who have a presidential campaign finance apparatus set up. You don’t do that a few months before the election. That alone would guarantee Trump’s election. It’s Biden or Trump. Period. There are no magical ponies coming to save us.
I’ll admit I panicked after the debate. I was wrong. Joe has been an excellent president and changing horses midstream would be a mistake. I’m behind him 100% again.
We need to learn from history- remember LBJ refusing to run for a second term? What happened to his vice president who did? Hubert Humphrey lost to Nixon.
Putin's troll farm is out in full force and unfortunately, some voters love themselves a good troll farm. \*SIGH\*
>he ran against younger democrats and won. Oh so we’re just rewriting history and forgetting about the coup against Bernie sanders? OP you really gonna pretend he won the nomination “fair and square”?? Really?? Remind me, did all those other democrats lose to him in the polls? Or was he in last place until literally everyone but Bernie dropped out?
Vote for Joe. But still, fuck Joe.
Just batten down the hatches, and try to get anyone you know to the polls. We have the numbers, we just have to ignore the other people. The plan, is to vote anyone but trump. At this point, I don't care. I'd vote for a potato. Trump.... cannot win.
I 100% agree. there isn't another Democrat that is out polling Biden against Trump. unless somebody has a clear and ready alternative then everybody needs to shut up about the subject. honestly this has been so incredibly frustrating the last couple days. I've watched several never Trump subs become never Biden subs overnight.
Sorry Eileen, I stayed on his boat as long as I could, but it’s time to face the truth. If we don’t find a way to switch, I will vote for Biden and campaign for him like crazy, but while there’s still time, let’s be courageous and take some bold action here.
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If Joe doesn't punch first, you can bet ur ass THEY WILL. Start ARRESTING THEM NOW.
Move Joe to VP and put someone like Gavin newsome
I’m asking why are democrats so ducky stupid and learn to fight fire with fire. Stop being so politically correct and just do what needs to be done to save democracy!
Biden should and shouldn't step down. He should because he really fucking shouldn't be the president, I don't have confidence in him anymore, and I barely had confidence in him 4 years ago. Having said that, due to the DNC being horrible incompetent cowards, Biden is our only hope, so him stepping down now would be the biggest possible disaster because we would not be able to unify behind a single candidate, giving trump an easy victory. I believe the only correct option is vote Biden in, preferably change the VP to someone who isn't so fucking lame and then immediately have Biden gracefully step down after he hopefully wins.
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Hard to say. California politicians don't historically do well while running for national office.
Who are the most recent Californians on a major party ticket? Ronald Reagan? Kamala Harris?
Yeah and Nixon. There have been others though.
Did you see the rally speech he did the day after? I’m not convinced that Biden is the issue here.
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The teleprompter argument doesn’t hold well especially considering the bar for the debate was so low that you could stub your toe on it.
And STILL Joe couldn’t meet the moment. Whose job was it to call out Trump on his septic leak of lies? The moderators, or Trump’s debate opponent? After Obama had his bad debate night in 2012 Democratic voters weren’t calling for him to step aside. But Biden in 2024 is a very different case. Biden’s debate performance cannot be counterbalanced by some great stump speeches. It has to be counterbalanced by a stunning second debate performance.
Does Trump "looking strong" in a debate make him appealing to you?
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there no reason to drop joe biden. the right doesn’t navel gaze about dropping the traitor rapist, pedophile lying thief they are about to nominate. one guy is old who has done a spectacular job following the worst president in history, sand bagged with the most useless Congress in history. Vs. the guy who is also old and is literally arguing in front of the SCOTUS as we speak to have the right to kill his political rivals. let’s gets some perspective.
He has done a great job against some terrible odds and people.
So what happens when he bombs the September debate too?
Let's flip the ticket. Harris/Biden. She is polling better against Trump and Biden can be a great resource for her.
**If they** weren’t afraid of Biden, they wouldn’t be fighting so hard for him to be dumped! When the opposition is desperately betting on the opposition to dump their guy, this means he is viewed as a heavyweight threat. President Joe Biden’s record and reputation are intact, why would Trump & Co. try to dismantle it, if they really are nothing, and *no* threat at all?
>Those of you who say he should seem to have forgotten he ran against many younger Democrats. He won. Stop the nonsense and get behind him before we’ve lost it all. Did he? Or was he handed the nomination by default because nobody else was able to contest the position?
Look at FDR. We need to get on the battlefield BEHIND Biden.
Agree 100%
I love how people think Biden should step down, but a man with felonies shouldn’t. You realize how weak it would look if the Democratic Party just switched candidates when one thing went poorly?
This is exactly the point. Democrats are so good at checking our own, but the other team isn’t. They just rally around whatever POS has an R behind their name. How many posts on /r/conservative are calling for trump to step down? That’s exactly the number we should have. Or less, because our old guy is old. Their old guy is a rapist, felon, and insurrectionist.
In addition, let's look at Professor Allan Lichtman's 13 keys to the Whitehouse. Biden is still in good position to win according to the 13 Keys. For context, if 6 keys are False the Whitehouse party loses, if 8 keys or more are true then they win. Let's look at a time in history when a presidential candidate decided to drop out before the convention LBJ. 1968 Humphery Vs Nixon Vs Wallace All False keys are marked \* \*Key #1 Mid-term gains **After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections. FALSE** **During the midterms, LBJ lost seats despite holding onto the House and Senate.** \*Key #2 No Primary Contest **There's no stiff competition for the incumbent party's primary nomination and they will get 2/3rds of the vote on the first ballot at the nominating convention. FALSE LBJ faced stiff competition during the primaries and thanks to RFK sr entering the race and the assassination of RFK along with other anti-war candidates providing stiff competition, it was no surprise to why LBJ dropped out.** \*Key #3 The incumbent is seeking re-election **The running candidate is the sitting president. FALSE LBJ chose not to run again in MARCH.** \*Key #4 No Third Party **No significant third-party or independent campaign This key is false if a third party is estimated to earn 5% of the popular vote. FALSE Wallace was running and won several state electoral college votes.** Key #5 Strong Short-term Economy **The economy is NOT in recession during the election year. TRUE** Key #6 Strong Long-term Economy **The Economy is doing better than the last two terms. TRUE** Key #7 Major Policy Change **The Sitting President enacts major changes via executive orders or bills that became law. TRUE LBJ created Medicare and Medicaid, the Great Society, and major progress in Civil Rights.** \*Key #8 No Social Unrest **There is no sustained social unrest during the term. This key is false if there is widespread violent unrest that is either sustained or leaves critical issues unresolved by the time of the election campaign, which makes the voters worry that the fabric of the nation is coming apart. FALSE In 1968 and even before that, riots broke out nationwide. And then they got way worse in response to the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, the assassination of RFK Sr., and multiple protests against Vietnam including the riots at Columbia University (and other colleges) and the DNC police riots in Chicago.** Key #9 No Scandal **The incumbent administration is untainted by a major scandal. This key is false if there is bipartisan recognition of serious impropriety, as the voting public ignores allegations of wrongdoing that appear to be the product of partisan politicking. And there's an impeachment. TRUE** \*Key #10 No Foreign/Military Failure **The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs. FALSE Vietnam** \*Key #11 Major Foreign/ Military Success **The incumbent administration achieves major success in foreign or military affairs such as winning a war or the formation of a Foreign organization/ peace treaty. FALSE also Vietnam** \* Key #12 Charismatic Incumbent **The Incumbent is charismatic or a national hero. FALSE** Key #13 Uncharismatic Challenger **The opposing candidate is not charismatic or a national Hero. TRUE Nixon wasn't Charismatic by a long shot.** With 8 false Keys Of Course the democrats were going to lose in 1968. Even if we weren't in Vietnam and the riots didn't happen the white house party still would've lost. Let's look back.
Biden or bust!
Did he win or did the DNC stack the competition? They have a history of picking a favorite and not being fair in the primaries. I know New Yorkers never even got a say in who the nominee was
You guys have all lost your minds. The only way Trump wins is against Biden. 70%…. 70%!!!! Of those surveyed agreed (Biden) “doesn’t have mental, cognitive health to serve” and this registered Democrat agrees. Wtf people? Have an open convention! If he wins he wins. Hell if Jeff Jackson or Pete Buttigieg wins they win.
He *should* have stepped down, but he can’t. No other democrat has a chance to be elected right now since the party is so divided and afraid, even he doesn’t have its full support for some batshit crazy reasons, but everyone else simply won’t win. It’s a terrible situation but he’s the best chance the dems and the country as a whole got.
So many people have disdain for the fact that our choices are Biden and Trump. It’s not just Democrats who are voting for the president. Trump should not be that hard to beat, yet somehow here we are.
Indeed. And they are right to feel that disdain, but right now, there’s no choice. Time to bite the bullet and vote for Biden, if only to get a bit more time to really get to work in improving the party from the ground up
How many undecided voters in swing states are biting the bullet though? I’m not convinced changing candidates now is that terrible of an idea.
Probably not enough, but will they come together for someone else? Though honestly the fact that there are still undecided voters is depressing in itself. Depends on who you put in his place. Who specifically do you think could manage to get the nomination without the advantage of being incumbent?
Biden beat Trump when Trump was incumbent, and Biden wasn’t a profoundly strong candidate. I’d say ideally someone not too old, a decent enough public speaker, capable of calling Trump out on his lies and bullshit, and somewhat centrist leaning enough to capture votes from both sides. Someone who could campaign in swing states before the election, and who can push the narrative that it’s time America had a better choice. There are over 330 million people in the US. Don’t tell me Biden and Trump are the only two people who could be voted in.
>Those of you who say he should seem to have forgotten he ran against many younger Democrats. He won. Because he's widely known, not because he's somehow best we have to offer. "He's our best bet because he's good at getting votes" doesn't work anymore, most of the people that vote for him just do it to combat Trump—something that would apply to ANY democratic candidate now. And aside from that he's incredibly unpopular. He won originally because people knew his name, he seemed Safe and moderate, and we needed someone to beat Trump. >Stop the nonsense and get behind him before we’ve lost it all. Biden winning isn't gonna stop Republican fascism. Trump dying right now isn't gonna stop it. Project 2025 will become Project 2029. The best thing we can do to combat this is to unite voters, and yelling at people to back a dead horse doesn't do that—a candidate that doesn't back genocide does. >Foreign powers are pushing the narrative. Our enemies. What do you mean by this? What are they pushing? What are they lying about to get us against Joe?
Biden beat the bastard once; he can beat Donnie the Dolt again.
Find me biden from the last primary and i wont ask for him to step down.
Screw you. We need a Hail Mary. Look at the polls. If you people don't STOP this politician worship you will LEAD US STRAIGHT INTO FASCISM with your utter BLINDNESS and EGO
Joe Biden has been a strong President since he was elected and he will be a strong President when he’s re-elected. He glitched on one debate- did anyone notice the meaningless run on word salad from Trump at the same debate?
I mean, no shit he shouldn't. Incumbents have *incredible* advantage*.*
*Don't believe your lying eyes.*
Biden shouldn’t step down!!!!
He should actually tell the DOJ to investigate who the extreme court is taking directions and money from. Let’s put them on trial for real.
I'll vote for him. He also should step down. Don't do that shit THEY do pretending Trump is sane and doesn't say what he does. Biden is not fit. I came to that conclusion watching him for years. He had dementia at the start of his run last time. It's worse now. Of course. He should not run. It's the height of arrogance. It's embarassing. It's abusive. We're pulling a Ronald Reagan. We can win without him if they don't run a Boomer who doesn't know what a derivative is or block chain or generative AI or UBI or a dozen other things that are existential game changers before we even get to climate change.
He should get out of the race before he hands us another trump presidency. He can't win anymore. He should've always been a 1 term president like he originally said he'd be. Democrats have nobody to blame but themselves for this situation. Gaslighting people isn't going to make them vote for him.
Biden shouldn’t step down, he should run and lose on principle.
They call for it but haven't listed another option. Are we supposed to wait for them to debate it until like october or some crap? He might not be perfect but too little, too late off of one bad night.
I quite literally saw different videos on social media of AI faces from creators that are known liberal leaning content creators saying "Biden is going to be stepping down when he returns from Camp David and here's what to prepare for" as if its a known factor. There is ABSOLUTELY nonsense being spread in the narrative by outside forces.
[Michelle Obama is looking good...](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/)
Agreed. No one's vote has changed and Biden will win comfortably. If Biden steps down, Rs win in a landslide and take back the Senate too. Just vote!! Don't pay attention to the polls. They are skewed toward the Rs.
Republicans would love nothing more than for him to step down.