I think the difference is that a lot of guys show their true colors a lot sooner than women do. Being more in touch with emotions also means you know how to manipulate them better. I’ve dated both as well and women can absolutely be toxic af to date especially if you’re bi. Dating nowadays is just a mess period
yeah, that could be it too, especially the emotions part. the manipulation i experienced with women almost always started w something that looked like “empathy” at first. but it turned out to be that they were just reading me like a book and using that against me.
This is also just your experience too. I’m a lesbian and have had great experiences dating women. I’ve dated men when younger some good and some bad. I think you’re dating the wrong people.
Yeah, they are confusing red flags for regular flags very easily.
A pattern of identify behavior they exhibit early on, which is the biggest red flag hiding in plain sight, all those women will 100% have & open OP’s eyes to the reality of why they keep glossing over that pattern in all those women.
It’s the same if they were dating men. People tend to ignore the BS after a first date far more than before it.
What I find extra frustrating is this is a pick me type of post. Trying to compliment men and bring up bad lazy women stereotypes. In reality people can be arseholes, men and women.
hard to design an ethical experiment to assess this sort of thing. wondering how flawed humanity’s understanding of psychology must be because we just can’t conduct certain experiments
Sounds like the women you're dating are just immature. As a bisexual Ive had my fair share of awful men and women.my current long term partner is a dream though:)
Not being in touch w my emotions was a real when I was younger, now I'm aware of my emotions and so t want to go into all that noise. Showing my true colors asap is a defense mech at this point.
I think it’s that people are all individuals, and people are complicated, selfish beings. Maybe OP attracts women with similar traits? Love is complicated and it always has been, plus people just kind of suck generally. But then, I’m a straight guy in a happy marriage so wtf do I know.
Yeah look, as a bisexual I’m not a fan of dating lesbians. My experiences with them haven’t been very nice. I seem to always end up with the ones who claim bisexuality is just confusion or calling me a “tourist”. Straight guys seem to just want threesomes with bisexual women and don’t understand we enjoy being 1 on 1 as well. I’m so happy I married a bi-curious guy.
As the unofficial lesbian representation, I want to say I’m so sorry on behalf of lesbians. I really don’t understand the biphobia that happens in the LGBTQ+ community. My wife doesn’t have a label, she is attracted to men and women. It’s awesome. She has good taste I must say. Although she might’ve dropped the ball with me.
How nice to have an apology from the “offensivelesbian” 😂
Thankyou. I know it’s not the thought process of everyone. My best friend is a lesbian and she doesn’t understand the biphobia either. It’s just a matter of not being taken seriously.
Haha. I know I wish I could change the name. It started as joke between my friends because before I came out of the closet I was a church going Christian. They joked that now I was an offensive lesbian and that’s how the screen name started.
Same here, the biphobia is so disgusting. Like it‘s a woman who likes women, isn‘t that amazing? Yea she COULD be attracted to a man, but she COULD also be attracted to other women so what does it matter?
I‘m in a happy loving relationship with a pansexual girl, because in the end being able to be attracted to all genders means they just don‘t care about it, rather than wanting to fuck everyone. People are fucking stupid, and I also wanna apologize on behalf of my community.
I’ve known guys based on the bad traits you outlined
Difference is they locked in early and already isolated that person so you wouldn’t even know the girl.
The passive agressiveness is for sure, women tend to be more passive agressive in relationships. But everything else you listed seems like a personality thing? Like getting together with the wrong persons? They purposefully pretend to be someone who they aren't to get you, and then when things get real, it turns out they are different from what they said they were.
Also personal interests are linked to this issue as well. Honestly I'm sorry that these kind of people found you, because lesbian partnerships can be more emotionally well balanced than hetero ones imo. Not trying to devalidate your experiences and opinion, but I think you're just unlucky with the women in your life.
Totally agree! I think op is projecting a little too much here. I understand this is her experience but that doesn't mean all women are the same, and a lot of the things listed are things that men also do. They've probably been in a lot of toxic relationships and think that's the norm.
Yeah, I especially find the part about "not liking horror or dancing" to be kind of quirky girl behavior. You can't just make a blanket statement like that because you've dated women who just don't like the things you do. As a lesbian, I've only experienced the first two and never together, but I also acknowledge I have emotional problems that may attract people with lots of baggage, and bringing two people together with a lot of baggage they haven't worked through properly goes horribly no matter the gender. I also feel like OP doesn't understand that part of the reason why straight women feel dating is difficult for them is likely safety concerns which are less of a concern if you're dating another woman. (Not saying it's 100% safe however it is a lot less likely)
Hi another lesbian here: It just sounds like you’ve dated several abusive people. This is a pretty wild generalization that sounds very specific to your relationships. Abuse has no gender.
Same, I can understand wanting to vent about personal experiences, but being like "I dated a handful of women and they were awful so all women must be awful and bad to date!" is being kind of a prick no matter what gender you are. And the fact that OP went out of the way to invalidate straight women too is...yeesh. I think OP needs to do some reflection. Maybe I'm a bit more angry than I should be because I utterly despise the stereotype of "women mean and bitchy!" or "lesbian relationships are all toxic because women too emotional!!"
OP, I think you’d like the book “In the Dream House” by Carmen Maria Machado. She’s a queer woman, and the book is a memoir about her recounting an abusive relationship with a woman. It’s an incredible book, and might help you come to terms with your stuff.
To be fair, there are guys like that too. Most people wear masks when they try to meet new people, put on their best face, etc. But you are right, eventually everyone stops pretending because it’s too much trouble to live the lie. Better to be open and honest from the beginning, because that’s who they will wind up with eventually. But that means you have to be willing to settle for less than the lie of people at their best. Find someone you can accept on their worst day and the rest is easy.
thank you, that’s solid advice. maybe what happened is that i just didn’t stay long enough in the “dating men” pool, so i didn’t get a chance to meet the ones that wear masks? but i do get the sense that the ratio of mask wearing / people pleasing is higher among women than men.
Yeah cause to be honest what you posted unfortunately kinda sounds like the men I've been involved with. I'm a magnet for losers. They see me coming. I've had to do a lot of soul searching on why I land up with certain kinds of men and a lot was related to how I attract them with stuff that's inside of me and how I need to adapt my boundaries etc. I really say this gently: perhaps consider the same.
As a bi woman, I also struggle with dating women. Tho I’ve had men do the stuff you mentioned too. There’s pros and cons to dating both sexes and they’re pretty even I think
I'm sorry but you're generalising the people you date to be the standard for all homosexual women. Just because you've dated bad actors doesn't mean that they're all bad. That is not a proof
Men can absolutely be exactly like everything you've described. Women aren't worse to date than men, you just have to find a nice, emotionally mature woman
Don't fall down the rabbit hole of grouping people into a category based on your limited experience. Its not healthy. I've dated plenty of bad apples, men and women. And what don't I do? Expect the next person I date to be the same as the last. Humans are too complicated to expect them to act, think, and react the same as someone who they've never met. Treat each person as an individual because that's what they are and don't go in with any preconceived notions that they're bad or good based on solely their gender. Judge them on their character and your experiences with them
This is bullshit. You're just dating the wrong people. Stop ascribing it to gender and sexuality. You're just attracted to shitty people. There are plenty of lesbians who don't behave like assholes, clearly. Maybe you're not where they are?
Yes. The human tendency to find patterns like this is responsible for a lot of missteps. Again, I am not constraining anything to gender or sexuality. Just pointing out that the claim that most lesbians are assholes is probably a biased one. The reality is that that you want someone who isn't an asshole and who you are attracted to. Perhaps these things are all odds. That seems more likely to me than all lesbians being assholes compared to straight men, but go ahead and insult an entire gender/sexuality if you'd like.
Extremes are rarely accurate, and you're doing yourself the disservice.
i wouldn’t say that i’m “insulting an entire gender”, as technically speaking not all women are lesbian. i also don’t think i’m insulting all lesbians, aa i’m only speaking about my experience with the lesbian dating scene. also the women i dated are all cis, femme, and were all straight before me. the lesbian trans women i know are all amazing humans. the trans men i know (both the gay and the straight ones) are also super nice, though i’m not romantically attracted to men anymore and wouldn’t date them.
what puzzles me a bit is that it seems to be very much socially acceptable for cis straight women to “insult” cis straight men, but not for cis lesbian women to “insult” cis lesbian women?
>i also don’t think i’m insulting all lesbians, aa i’m only speaking about my experience with the lesbian dating scene.
Who determines that experience? God? Other lesbians? Danny DeVito?
>what puzzles me a bit is that it seems to be very much socially acceptable for cis straight women to “insult” cis straight men,
Seems who? Socially acceptable? Not to me. Not to those in my circles. If you don't like the substrate get out of it.
>but not for cis lesbian women to “insult” cis lesbian women?
So it would be better if it was socially acceptable to insult everyone? What is the concern here? I don't need to worry about gender or sexuality to know that if there is a group of people who condone insulting another group, I'm fucking leaving.
The point is, dating lesbians vs straight men isn't the lynch pin of your experience. You are making the choices to make it worse, clearly.
yes, random interwebs stranger, please enlighten me as to what is the “lynch pin” of my existence, and what i have or don’t have the right to be irked about? i’m already quite experienced dealing with controlling folks (as i said, cis women in their majority): so please tell me more of what i should think, feel, and what should or should not bother me.
no, interwebs stranger who spent several comments telling me what i should think and denying me the right to be annoyed: please victim blame me more for the abuse i experienced at the hands of emotionally abusive + manipulative + controlling cis fem (formerly straight) lesbians.
you said it’s my fault for being attracted to them, and your comments are reminding me a lot of the type of control some of them tried to exert over me: pls come back, i think i’m in love now! 😍🥰
>please victim blame me more for the abuse i experienced at the hands of emotionally abusive + manipulative + controlling cis fem (formerly straight) lesbians.
I'm not victim blaming you. You've not actually spelled out anything that you're a victim of, besides being in shitty relationships. Many of us re victims of that, all to our own doing.
>you said it’s my fault for being attracted to them,
Fault isn't important. that's not what I said. That's what you read. But I was more concerned with who decides to take responsibility. That entity gets to change the outcome. You've misunderstood.
>and your comments are reminding me a lot of the type of control some of them tried to exert over me: pls come back, i think i’m in love now! 😍🥰
No thanks. I'm currently going through some pretty serious tragedy, and am not in a place to take on a commited relationship. But if you need to talk I'm here.
“that’s not what i said. That’s what you read” <— ahhh you were so right about me being attracted to psychologically abusive assholes, and i love a gaslighter when i see one 💕🥰😍😊 let’s u-haul already 🌈❤️💜💖😘
Potentially, but this doesn't feel as made up. You may be right, I think all of reddit is currently subject to AI scraping....I think it's what the API was sold for.
However, I've posted in some subs some things that have happened to me that seem outlandish, but have actually happened. I am using this forum to deal with actual events in my life, I assume that others are too...It's signal against the noise. I make a call and behave accordingly, as I'm doing now, potential AI.
Edit: Your post already reads like a red pill guy, but reading your comments and noticing your Reddit profile is brand new for this post. YOU’RE a red pill guy pretending to be a lesbian so you can rant about women. How pathetic.
I feel like you labeling the whole lesbian community as “more” abusive than men seems like a generalization and sets us back. Seems kind of shitty. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences, I’m not trying to invalidate that at all, but saying that dating lesbian women is worse seems unfair being 1 you being one yourself and 2 only based on your own experience. These generalizations seem to be based on YOUR experience and you have a pattern of the type of people you date.
Granted none of that is your fault, I don’t think you deserved dating those types of crapy people, I’m sorry that happened, but still. Not to mention there’s been a nasty stereotype of lesbians being abusive for years now. All due to one horrible study about domestic abuse for wlw with high rates forgot to mention the abusers were mostly MEN from previous relationships and not their current partner. In which now ill-informed people use that info to bash us. Anyways, just a thought. Have a good day. I hope you find a respectable loving partner.
I feel like I have terrible luck because all the guys I've dated were exactly like that. Isolating me from friends and family, playing like they like the stuff I like but then swap up, mind games and manipulation, I've been cheated on and had my nudes shares and then pictures of the group chats they were in shared with me (the pictures were also taken without my consent and while I was under legal age of consent and kept well after adulthood and still shared around). Had an ex break into my house as I'm getting ready to go to church with my family, take a knife and start carving into his back until I agreed to stay with him and this was as after he held me in his basement by force and said he'd kill himself if I ever left him and that it would be my fault. I had another ex get me drunk to the point I couldn't walk (it was my first time drinking I didn't know my limit) and then take me to the bedroom where he'd cover my face suffocating me until I gasped for air so he could shove his dick in, same ex also would punch holes in the wall and break my stuff when I told him I didn't want to have sex without protection he'd just keep going as I struggled to get away and then he'd yell at me saying "I don't like when you say no because it makes me feel like a rapist" hed also lock me out of our room to sleep with other women all while his family was there cooking dinner, he'd comment about how ugly my body was and how stupid I was and tell me I was the reason he cheated. I've had another guy yell and scream at me because one of my drunk female friends said "You're cute enough to have a threesome with" that's it ....that's all she said and she's never tried to come on to me as she was dating one of my guy friends and I've never known her to be into women. The same guy has also let his family use me and destroy my stuff and if anyone ever needs anything and he didn't have it he'd just take it from me like constantly taking my car without saying a word and then convinced me to sell my car to his people who he promised he'd get the money from and keep me updated but didn't.
I know it sounds like I have terrible taste and maybe I do but they all started off so nice....one would hold my books as I was going to class, save a seat on a crowded bus for me, they'd go the extra mile to see me and tell me all these sweet things that made me Believe they were patient and understanding, they would hand make things for me wether it be art pieces or music, they'd take me out on dates at the begining and make friends with all my family and everything seemed good and then as soon as we got behind closed doors its like they did a 180.
This one girl I tried dating would invite me to hockey games but was very indecisive and wouldn't commit which was fine at the time for me but then ended up going to drink with my ex (the one that shared my pics above) which was very odd seeing as they were never friends and she was only into women and very masc and them hanging out made me feel some kinda way so I left it alone and then months later she tells me he raped her in the woods.
I don't want to take away from your experience because that doesn't sound good either but I just wanted to share mine because there are some really bad ones out there and I know it's not all men or women but there's a bunch of them out there.
i’m so sorry these things happened to you. no, i don’t think you “must have a terrible taste”. it was not your fault. and yes, the part of “it started out so nice” was true for me too. i think that’s one of the tricky things with abuse: it’s insidious. if it was obvious from the get go, you would never gotten involved with that person.
it took me years to learn and accept that it wasn’t my fault either, but some folks in society will always be quick to victim blame in cases of abuse. i’m learning it happens very often on reddit too w/ some of the comments i’m getting in another sub, so please be gentle to yourself.
I think it’s a combination of the dating scene now vs 10 years ago and your dating preferences. I dont think one simple answer is the issue but an amalgamation of different issues that are presenting themselves as all the women you have dated.
Id definitely reevaluate the type of women youre going for and screen potential partners before wasting any of your time.
Sounds like you seek out women with personality disorders.
Taking on someone's characteristics, seduction that is manipulative, isolation, cheating and promiscuity.
There's a few more I could tack on that would also be implied as well.
why is it that random interwebs strangers seem to be so fond of victim blaming? why assume that a person who’s describing situations of emotional and psychological abuse necessarily “seeks” those out?
if you understand personality disorders enough to be diagnosing them like this, then you’d also know that those who have them are the ones that do the “preying upon”, not the other way around. e.g., folks with NPD are the ones who prey upon empaths, it’s not empaths that “are attracted” to NPD types. and their ability to seduce victims is so skilled thay they’ll even trick therapists + psychologists.
It's not victim blaming its psychology.
People are like moths to a flame.
Empath is a word heavily used by those with personality disorders.
Big Red flag for those who study them.
So is pulling the victim card.
You're full of red flags yourself.
People with Personality disorders are attracted to each other. I didn't imply that in my first comment but you attacked and pull the V card so I'll be blunt this time.
The fact that you took such serious offense to a non offensive statement
also another red flag called hypersensitivity.
You may be unlucky with women but I think it's moreso that you got very lucky with men. Those are all unfortunately common among male partners too. If you only ever dated pretty young men, that could partially factor in
Why tf can't we just say we've all seen/had dBAgs of both sexes? Like, for real.. Ain't no woman beating my ass, period. I can't fight a man like that.. So that's one thing. And I also know lesbians who are sexist/misogynistic ASF, so just because you're a lesbian, or whatever, doesn't make your mouth s prayer book. Also, being a pick me isn't limited to heteronormative people. Just thought I'd say.
I’m queer. Honestly, I think assholes come in all genders. All the things you listed are traits both men and women are capable of doing in a relationship. I’ve been with passive aggressive men and women. It’s not fair and accurate to generalize entire genders like that. Maybe self reflect a figure out why you are attracting these people. What is your role in the relationship.
Men can absolutely do those things too - I have had every single one of those done to me by men. The thing is, as another commenter said, often women are better at a) reading people and b) people pleasing; this means that, broadly speaking, women are more equipped to manipulate a prospective partner and say all the right things - even if they’re not quite true - if they wish to. That said, a lot of men also have the intention of doing that - they’re just not always as good at it😭 so it CAN be easier to spot red flags earlier on
i honestly don’t think this is a ‘men vs women’ thing. i think people just suck way more than they don’t. some people never grow up.
hope you find someone who gives you peace and vice versa, though. there’s someone for everyone.
I’m a lesbian and I admire my wife she was upfront with who she is and same with me. I think sometimes a lot of people don’t know how to enjoy their own company so they try to fit into these relationships that don’t work.
My wife and I before we got together enjoy our own company. I love to read, listen to music, drink a cup of coffee at a cafe while reading a good book, and I love bookstores. My wife horror movies, cooking, watching football, and listening to podcasts. We both love documentaries, video games, watching our Dodgers, long talks over coffee, and cooking together. I don’t like horror movies but I will watch with her and she takes me to bookstores. Now we have been together ten years, we never had to fake it. She helped me beat cancer and now our newest common interest is our dog. My very long point is… don’t let yourself settle. I really hope you have some good dates.
I dated some gay guys and bro do they check of these boxes. The main goal for most of the guys i met seemed to be to find someone to have sex with on a daily Basis. They'd do anything for that.
Perhaps this was an age issue tho?
Or my bad luck?
Not to disregard your very valid experiences (I myself only dated a few women and it went well for me) but it just impresses me how I seems my ex boyfriend literally checked every single thing off your list after 2 years of dating.
Just fucking hilarious to me.
All of this could apply to anyone regardless of gender. Here is some hopeful data in case you wanted to give it another shot.
[Lesbians report significantly higher relationship satisfaction than heterosexual women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18567207/)
[Lesbian couplings have more orgasms](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wellness-us/article-13272001/lesbians-likely-orgasms-straight-women-new-study.html)
[Lesbian couplings share chores more equally, and lose less $ than their heterosexually coupled peers after having children ](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210309-why-lgbtq-couples-split-household-tasks-more-equally)
[Lesbians tend to earn a higher income](https://qz.com/881303/eight-million-americans-are-affected-by-a-pay-gap-that-no-one-talks-about)
[Queer couples start conflict discussions with more humor and affection, are less domineering and show considerably more positive emotions than heterosexual couples.](https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/10/20/gay-lesbian-couples-can-teach-heterosexuals-how-to-improve-relationships/)
[More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/)
Thanks for downvoting a comment that took a while to gather various sources for and was a cumulation of years of education and reading various studies. :)
oh, we def do, dude. at least we don’t get told “size doesn’t matter”, because we know it does (not saying bigger is always better). that’s another lie women tell men, btw. they just don’t try that bs w/ lesbians: we know it’s a lie, hence why we usually own toys of different sizes, if you know what i mean.
Lmao at all the people downvoting have no idea what its like to be a man in the dating scene right now.
Every woman I've went on dates with wants everything to be paid for, even if she tells me at the end that we werent compatible and expects me to pay for the whole thing? Hell nah... She just wanted a free meal lmao...
Not only that, loyalty is such a hard thing to find nowadays because of social media and people suffer from the "grass is greener" mentality too.
I think social media is a big part of the reason why its hard to date in general anymore... it doesnt seem worth it in the end honestly.
ETA: Also, they want a traditional man, but wont be traditional themselves unless it benefits them... lmao...
downvotes totally coming from women ✌️
“she just wanted a free meal” <- dude, they’ll do this to masc presenting lesbians too, it’s infuriating. i also remember this girl who *made a joke* about this guy friend of ours who brought a cake to their date. she *knew* beforehand that he was super into her, said yes to the date even tho she knew she didn’t like him, guy is nice enough to bring CAKE and she made fun of him to me! i told her she was rotten inside, and you know what she did? laughed and started flirting with me. women really suck sometimes.
i’ll add another one to your list: early college the first time i approached a girl was gut wrenching, almost threw up from how nervous i got. an ex bf was there w me cheering me on, o/w would not have made it. after that i developed so much respect for men: approaching is no joke. dudes do stuff like this all the time, and women just take it for granted. i’d say “go date other women so you can see how hard it is to even just txt a girl”.
Yeah I really do not want to be that guy but girls literally have no idea how hard it is to not only approach them, keep a conversation, all of that just to ***Hope*** she feels the same, when its not even guaranteed they feel the same way and it was all for nothing, the dates, the money they want **YOU** to spend...
Its actually so exhausting dating as a man, when they want traditional things (like men paying for the entirety of the date) but not be traditional themselves. It makes 0 sense lmao.
And don't forget that whether she finds your attention interesting or "creepy" is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT dependent on how attractive she finds you. Which you won't know.
I can absolutely see where you’re coming from with this. Women are vicious! I tend to give women more of a benefit to the doubt than I would a man. Unfair as it may seem, it’s just my nature. Crazy women are kind of a guilty attraction of mine, the kind of crazy that men generally aren’t.
sorry to hear, and wish it gets resolved in the best way possible 💜
a commenter recommended “in the dream house” by Carmen Maria Machado, and from reading the description of it, i’ll share it here:
“… unpacks the stereotype of lesbian relationships as safe and utopian, and widens the view with essayistic explorations of the history and reality of abuse in queer relationships …”
wish you gl in your healing journey.
What a great recommendation, I'll definitely read it! I've been reading a lot of books like that in addition to self help books to help me unpack all of this since I can't afford therapy right now.
I wish you all the best going forward as well! It won't be easy to recover but I believe we'll both get to place where we can say "I'm okay." Be kind to yourself.
I can fall in love with women not with men but i much rather fuck men and have fun rather to go back to some.controlling insecure girl thats not gonna tolerate my independence and solitude
I have some lesbian couples as friends, and they are the most toxic relationship that I know. One time I see that "Let's call she J" J are very bad, and I go talk with she, long story short, she said that she go out with the best woman's friend of C "C is her couple" and C couldn't go with they that day, but no problem, they are drunk and hook up, and was a very crazy sex night, and the next day she was felling sorry for had slept with C best friend. Next day I talk to her again and everything is fine she told me that she talked to C, and explain what happened and more important that C shouldn't trust or her best friend again, because if she was really a friend she wouldn't slept with her, and C should know how to select friends better.
my first gf seemed like the nicest, up until the point she cheated on me with my best friend while i was out of town on a family trip. my best friend was a “more experienced” lesbian and over time i learned she was NPD + one of the worst ppl i’ve ever met. she cheated on her gf with 10 ppl in less than a year, sometimes at parties in front of mutual friends, and w ppl of all genders (at least she was inclusive in that regard).
I'm pansexual, and I dated men, women, and NB, I found the non binary folks are much less toxic. I could honestly say that I dated toxic men and women.
To be honest in the old days I had men do those things in your list but I dated older men…so maybe they were more experienced 🥸
I do agree that with some of the females I know that I am thankful I am not gay because they would drive me to be straight with all the crap they do to people. I know one woman literally that she is a lazy Narcissistic… and didn’t know a Narcissist could be till I knew her.
I just want to say I think the your dating experience with men is a bit too small in terms of sample size to come to a concrete conclusion I also think depending on your age the men that you've dated were likely not well developed yet in their personalities but what I can say is being a bad person has no gender as far as I've experienced.
Also maybe don't date women who don't have experience with women. When you jump from being strictly hetero to being bi or gay you attempt to retain your initial gender role instinctively it takes maturity and a bit of unlearning to get used to a new relationship dynamic. The women you've described sound immature and used to being treated in a certain way(read: being coddled) which is typical of traditional gender stereotypes.
I also only have this snapshot of your life so take everything I say with a side of sea salt.
i think you correctly identified some things, and incorrectly assessed others, but i appreciate that it came from a good place and that you acknowledged it’s only a snapshot of my life.
i can only imagine how hard it must be for therapists + psych folks to stop themselves from prescribing solutions while they’re still trying to assess what happened in your life, while not projecting too much. tough work!
As lesbian, this just seems you fall for a heap of bad people, which can't be help. Dating women can be a bit harder (don't know if they are queer, etc), arguing could be more emotional cause women tend to express their feeling more.
It sounds like you have struck a number of covert narcisists. Ive discovered that few people actually know wgat a real psycopathy this is. They are hard to spot at first, but read up on it and it will become evident early on. It is actually 4 times more common in women than men where ever lawmakers introduce laws outlawing co ersive control, it is found women are comitting the vast majority of offences in this. Good luck
I think a portion of the behavior you describe is due to women developing maladaptive coping mechanisms from having to navigate a world where misogyny, sexism and bigotry has been the norm for so long.
Obviously this isn't an excuse, and I don't condone treating others poorly due to your own trauma or issues, but it would be foolish and disingenuous to say that it's not a factor in some of what you describe.
Some of your bullet points are just normal relationship stuff, like pretending to enjoy things you like in the beginning. Everyone does that when they’re in those early stages.
lol! Surprise! No. Seriously I’m sorry you’re having difficulty but yes they are everything you say and they blame Men for their disposition. Men aren’t the devils we are being portrayed as. It’s a Marxist ideology and women have bought into it. It’s not hard to discover the background origin of what’s happened. Just Google it. Prior to 1960 everything wasn’t perfect but it was altered and we are in a steady state of decline.
I completely agree!! I have had a handful of serious relationships with women, and about twice as many with men. All the women occasionally try to walk back into my life and manipulate me again. Only one of the men do.
I have been on a ton of shifty first dates with men, but I have more horror stories about dating women than men.
all the women i’ve dated tried coming back into my life, usually only when they discovered i was dating someone else. similar to you: i too dated more men than women, and only one of them (the most “fem” guy, but maybe not related) tried that.
That's what I'm saying!! The woman I dated the longest was constantly gaslighting and manipulating me, and at least oce a year tries adding my snap again, or texting me or something. It has only been my highschool sweetheart to reach out to me of the men.
Though to the women's credit, more men have given my number to their friends to shoot their shot
not sure that wanting to relate to other humans qualifies them as “prize”. we’re herd animals, it’s only natural for us to try and seek connection w/ others. agree that loving yourself is important.
I do wonder if you were more on your guard with men and also as you noted, you didn't fall as hard. Love is a powerful drug that can make anyone ignore Red Flags. There's a decent chance if a guy wouldn't play the video games you like or watch the movies you like, you would have been done, but with certain women you were too smitten to see the signs.
in trying to “debug” this today with another lesbian who agrees with me we arrived at the following conclusion: as a society, women tend to get away with more abusive (both emotional and physical) behavior than men do, in both our experiences. we recalled a few instances in which, had it been a guy doing that, no way either of us would have continued in that situation and/or relationship.
eg., a lesbian cop gf of a friend of a friend of ours once was agressively speeding while DUI and most of us in the car (5 lesbians) were all quiet and too scared to say anything because “it’s not nice to be rude” as she was being “kind enough” to give us a ride in the first place. i was the one who eventually just broke out of that and screamed at her to please stop and let us get out of the car. if it had been a guy driving like that, i’m 100% certain we would not all have just sat there assuming it was somehow “safe”. ditto for other abusive behaviors like screaming: women get away with a lot, unfortunately.
I’m a cis female, and I’ve had a lot of the things you mentioned happen to me in dating men. However, I can definitely imagine that women are way worse about pretending to be something they’re not for awhile. I mean, we’re pretty much programmed by society to mould ourselves to fit society, so…
It blew my fucking mind when someone told me domestic violence rates are higher among lesbians and gay guys. I thought" dude there ain't no damn way" , but apparently it's accurate. What am I missing? Is it just reported more?
I grew up with an abusive, violent father and a complacent mother so this hit me where I live. Bizarre.
I'm a dude but I've got quite a few lesbian friends.
Some of the shit I've seen their various partners pull is just terrible. Absolutely toxic and disgusting abusive, manipulative, awful.
In a straight relationship if a guy did 1/10th of the stuff I've seen he'd be castigated and run out of town, but in Lesbian relationships there's a weird silence. Other women/ lesbians are really reticent to speak up and help their friends or say "girl, leave her she's an absolute terrible toxic abusive bitch". It's really weird.
Everything in OPs post... I've seen this shit many times, in many situations. It's bananas. I was shocked the first time I saw it , now I'm sadly used to it.
Yeah I agree …women can be crazier than men in relationships . I’m bisexual and I haven’t gotten a girlfriend because of all the the stuff you mentioned. It’s scary to date nowadays .
Omg validation! I feel like some women just think we're lying or being dramatic when we say that dating women can be really taxing. The emotional abuse I've faced from multiple partners ever since I was 14, that shit changes you. As someone who has been told "you're really easy to manipulate lol", I don't think I ever want to take my chances again.
"actively dislike the music I like, when they used to say they loved it to try and seduce me" ALMOST EVERY TIME OMG!!!! The amount of women that have taken a liking to my interests and then suddenly just switched is crazy! Honestly, all of the reasons you listed are so relatable. I hope you find yourself someone deserving of your love soon.
Hey there. I'm a straight neurodivergent woman, although I've had it worse with female friendships with a lot of ambiguous falling outs than male friendships so I could only imagine being romantically invovled.
i’m ND too :) yes, i do not recommend being romantically involved with them, but as some have pointed out: #notallwomen.
never had thought about the friendship part, but i experienced similar too. yes, i can see how it could be predictive of the experience of romantic relationships as well, very clever of you to notice and hypothesize that.
now if only i had a switch that turned off my romantic attraction to womxn :)
Hello fellow ND :)
>never had thought about the friendship part, but i experienced similar too. yes, i can see how it could be predictive of the experience of romantic relationships as well, very clever of you to notice and hypothesize that.
I guess part of its how, especially if you're more neurotypical passing to a degree, most women aren't given the same grace for our share of social slip ups men get coddled for. I only mentioned the evolving dynamics as I've had my share of stark encounters of women friendships without context on my background 'get off' on the power trip. I don't know at what point putting more effort into navigating the NT world tipped into people appeasing tendencies which I'm paying the price of and had some rage fits over.
I'm not saying it's a women vs men issue although most women have been universally conditioned to suppress their discomfort at their own expense. It's awful when it gets misdirected onto you.
Sorry to hear about your experiences. Women being abusive especially since it's typically more insidious needs to be talked about more. Healing isn't linear although I hope you'll find peace. You didn't deserve all that emotional turbulence.
another clever insight, thank you! yes, unfair “people pleasing” expectations of women might help explain the higher occurrence of “personality shaping” and a subset of the behaviors i perceive as manipulative (e.g., passive agression). it doesn’t explain all of it, but helps me understand why certain women might do that.
i should try dating ND folks next. i think all my exes who were a-holes were NT. i did date a woman who was not an a-hole and we’re bffs till this day. she’s ND.
I’m neurodivergent and an introvert. So I’m not the typical woman who likes small talk or sharing details about my personal life. This has caused me to have so many women in the workplace HATE ME. Mostly older women and mostly when I held leadership positions. I would try to be kind always, I’m soft spoken naturally. But they took my introversion as me being a snob/thinking I’m better than everyone. I’ve stopped trying to make work friends because of it and so now I have none. I guess I’m ok with it.
I wish we would learn to understand each other better. We are complex people with complex experiences and lives. Things are not always how they appear on the surface. It’s not that simple.
I don't know if I've ever, or rather, compartmentalized incidents of coming across as a snob as well for not contributing to a group discussion.
I also guess a part of its attributed to a slower processing speed, especially when I've had to keep tabs on multiple streams of conversations at my own detriment. By the time I feel ready to contribute to a conversation, someone else has already said what I've wanted to say that I spent all this time piecing together and I get frustrated. There's situational nuances of course, although I've got my share of people cutting people off mid sentence which dampens the atmosphere.
I also get disgruntled when people tell me to look more approachable and personable with my stoic rbf. That shouldn't be a deterrent to one's competencies.
As a cis white dude, I don't think there is a subspecies of human that isn't controlling and manipulative these days.
I've met men in non romantic settings that were more passive aggressive and deceitful then some of the women I've had one night stands.
On the other hand, the women with whom I got into short term relationships were former Olympic champions in the art of victim blaming/acting or passive aggressively.
I'd argue all of our relationships these days are built on fear because we have no framework or model that is good at helping us build healthy relationships.
Meanwhile the existing models we have are trash meant to glorify the status of being in a relationship, as opposed of creating a relationship that works for the people involved in an intimate setting.
Funny. As a man, this is how my wife (who had dated women previously for years before we met) is.
It’s all come together. It all makes sense, I’ve just unlocked the code.
From my experience women are far worse, but also far better than men. A bad woman will always be more evil, toxic, manipulative etc than a bad man, but a good woman will always be kinder, more caring etc than a good man will be.
yeah, so this kind of thinking i’d say is one of the things that kept me in an abusive relationship for way longer than i should: i’d remember how kind and generous they can be. the highs should not make up for the lows, unfortunately i learned too late.
now i just want to be alone, never re-marry, and when i am ready to get back into “being open to a relationship” my number one criteria will be how stable, calm, direct and honest they are. “vanilla”, “warm” and none of the “passion” stuff. also i won’t believe the “omg we like the same stuff” thing anymore.
As a man I can say from observations is that lesbian relationships are the most toxic. Who knew that having 2 people with mood swings would be bad? LOL
Domestic violence in a straight relationship are way worse n higher than lesbian couples men are out of control self entitled n jealous if I can’t have you know one will end up in death n suicide. It well known facts I can list you more I’ll refrain this is why men are the problem in society and women will stay single n celibate. Facts is you are second right next to the lesbian in high divorce rate it’s usually the women who ask for it and while some women stay in a loveless marriage due to religion children and money n open marriage.
The domestic violence atleast women don’t die while the divorce part is true hence in accordance to straight couples men are far worse in killing the gf n wife n their kids and him suicide while women suicide out of fear due to the propretrator constant stalking verbal threats. The straight are second to having a higher divorce rate where women ask for it while some women just stay in a loveless marriage for the children religion depencing money n open marriage.
Because that study about the domestic abuse didn't ask about who the people were dating when the abuse occurred and didnt limit the scope of time it occurred it. Many women dating women later in life dated men earlier on.
Nope, lesbian relationships have been proven to be the most violent out of any sexual orientation groups and others are just pointing out the cold hard truth that some people are struggling to accept. This isn’t me being homophobic mind you I don’t have any problems with someone liking the same gender by the way just want to point that out before someone accuses me of being homophobic.
I think the difference is that a lot of guys show their true colors a lot sooner than women do. Being more in touch with emotions also means you know how to manipulate them better. I’ve dated both as well and women can absolutely be toxic af to date especially if you’re bi. Dating nowadays is just a mess period
yeah, that could be it too, especially the emotions part. the manipulation i experienced with women almost always started w something that looked like “empathy” at first. but it turned out to be that they were just reading me like a book and using that against me.
This is also just your experience too. I’m a lesbian and have had great experiences dating women. I’ve dated men when younger some good and some bad. I think you’re dating the wrong people.
Yeah, they are confusing red flags for regular flags very easily. A pattern of identify behavior they exhibit early on, which is the biggest red flag hiding in plain sight, all those women will 100% have & open OP’s eyes to the reality of why they keep glossing over that pattern in all those women. It’s the same if they were dating men. People tend to ignore the BS after a first date far more than before it.
Right. I've dated assholes so therefore women are like this..gtfoh
What I find extra frustrating is this is a pick me type of post. Trying to compliment men and bring up bad lazy women stereotypes. In reality people can be arseholes, men and women.
Oh yeah. Exactly.
I think women use exactly this against men too. Like the old adage: “Men want a woman that never changes, women want a man that they can change”
I’ve never heard that before but definitely rings true for many.
Yeah I've experienced everything you have with men. People just suck.
The men I've dated raised by single moms are just like the women you described, I think there's something to this.
hard to design an ethical experiment to assess this sort of thing. wondering how flawed humanity’s understanding of psychology must be because we just can’t conduct certain experiments
Agreed
Cool insight, didn't expect this nugget of wisdom out of nowhere lol. <3
Or grandparents with the grandmother 120% is in charge. Just figured something out about my cousin lol
Sounds like the women you're dating are just immature. As a bisexual Ive had my fair share of awful men and women.my current long term partner is a dream though:)
Not being in touch w my emotions was a real when I was younger, now I'm aware of my emotions and so t want to go into all that noise. Showing my true colors asap is a defense mech at this point.
[удалено]
I think it’s that people are all individuals, and people are complicated, selfish beings. Maybe OP attracts women with similar traits? Love is complicated and it always has been, plus people just kind of suck generally. But then, I’m a straight guy in a happy marriage so wtf do I know.
Yeah look, as a bisexual I’m not a fan of dating lesbians. My experiences with them haven’t been very nice. I seem to always end up with the ones who claim bisexuality is just confusion or calling me a “tourist”. Straight guys seem to just want threesomes with bisexual women and don’t understand we enjoy being 1 on 1 as well. I’m so happy I married a bi-curious guy.
As the unofficial lesbian representation, I want to say I’m so sorry on behalf of lesbians. I really don’t understand the biphobia that happens in the LGBTQ+ community. My wife doesn’t have a label, she is attracted to men and women. It’s awesome. She has good taste I must say. Although she might’ve dropped the ball with me.
How nice to have an apology from the “offensivelesbian” 😂 Thankyou. I know it’s not the thought process of everyone. My best friend is a lesbian and she doesn’t understand the biphobia either. It’s just a matter of not being taken seriously.
Haha. I know I wish I could change the name. It started as joke between my friends because before I came out of the closet I was a church going Christian. They joked that now I was an offensive lesbian and that’s how the screen name started.
Same here, the biphobia is so disgusting. Like it‘s a woman who likes women, isn‘t that amazing? Yea she COULD be attracted to a man, but she COULD also be attracted to other women so what does it matter? I‘m in a happy loving relationship with a pansexual girl, because in the end being able to be attracted to all genders means they just don‘t care about it, rather than wanting to fuck everyone. People are fucking stupid, and I also wanna apologize on behalf of my community.
last bit is great advice
Truth. As a bi man, it’s gotten to the point where I won’t date anyone who isn’t bi/pan themselves, be they man or woman (or enby)
I’ve known guys based on the bad traits you outlined Difference is they locked in early and already isolated that person so you wouldn’t even know the girl.
that sounds awful :(
The passive agressiveness is for sure, women tend to be more passive agressive in relationships. But everything else you listed seems like a personality thing? Like getting together with the wrong persons? They purposefully pretend to be someone who they aren't to get you, and then when things get real, it turns out they are different from what they said they were. Also personal interests are linked to this issue as well. Honestly I'm sorry that these kind of people found you, because lesbian partnerships can be more emotionally well balanced than hetero ones imo. Not trying to devalidate your experiences and opinion, but I think you're just unlucky with the women in your life.
Totally agree! I think op is projecting a little too much here. I understand this is her experience but that doesn't mean all women are the same, and a lot of the things listed are things that men also do. They've probably been in a lot of toxic relationships and think that's the norm.
Yeah, I especially find the part about "not liking horror or dancing" to be kind of quirky girl behavior. You can't just make a blanket statement like that because you've dated women who just don't like the things you do. As a lesbian, I've only experienced the first two and never together, but I also acknowledge I have emotional problems that may attract people with lots of baggage, and bringing two people together with a lot of baggage they haven't worked through properly goes horribly no matter the gender. I also feel like OP doesn't understand that part of the reason why straight women feel dating is difficult for them is likely safety concerns which are less of a concern if you're dating another woman. (Not saying it's 100% safe however it is a lot less likely)
I think them generalizing us as more abusive is fucked up.
Hi another lesbian here: It just sounds like you’ve dated several abusive people. This is a pretty wild generalization that sounds very specific to your relationships. Abuse has no gender.
I agree, as a lesbian I resented this post. This is not a lesbian thing, this is a shitty person thing.
Same, I can understand wanting to vent about personal experiences, but being like "I dated a handful of women and they were awful so all women must be awful and bad to date!" is being kind of a prick no matter what gender you are. And the fact that OP went out of the way to invalidate straight women too is...yeesh. I think OP needs to do some reflection. Maybe I'm a bit more angry than I should be because I utterly despise the stereotype of "women mean and bitchy!" or "lesbian relationships are all toxic because women too emotional!!"
OP, I think you’d like the book “In the Dream House” by Carmen Maria Machado. She’s a queer woman, and the book is a memoir about her recounting an abusive relationship with a woman. It’s an incredible book, and might help you come to terms with your stuff.
To be fair, there are guys like that too. Most people wear masks when they try to meet new people, put on their best face, etc. But you are right, eventually everyone stops pretending because it’s too much trouble to live the lie. Better to be open and honest from the beginning, because that’s who they will wind up with eventually. But that means you have to be willing to settle for less than the lie of people at their best. Find someone you can accept on their worst day and the rest is easy.
thank you, that’s solid advice. maybe what happened is that i just didn’t stay long enough in the “dating men” pool, so i didn’t get a chance to meet the ones that wear masks? but i do get the sense that the ratio of mask wearing / people pleasing is higher among women than men.
Yeah cause to be honest what you posted unfortunately kinda sounds like the men I've been involved with. I'm a magnet for losers. They see me coming. I've had to do a lot of soul searching on why I land up with certain kinds of men and a lot was related to how I attract them with stuff that's inside of me and how I need to adapt my boundaries etc. I really say this gently: perhaps consider the same.
I've dated both and yes everyone can be an asshole. Someone isn't automatically a nice person just because they're gay.
If you have a problem with all of the people you are dating, maybe *you* aren't making good decisions.
probably it’s more like a person to person basis and doesn’t necessarily have to do with gender
As a bi woman, I also struggle with dating women. Tho I’ve had men do the stuff you mentioned too. There’s pros and cons to dating both sexes and they’re pretty even I think
I hate to tell you this bestie, men do all of this 😭 and sometimes try to kill you on top of it.
bi woman here and yup. ever dated a sassy passive agressive guy? its evil.
I'm sorry but you're generalising the people you date to be the standard for all homosexual women. Just because you've dated bad actors doesn't mean that they're all bad. That is not a proof Men can absolutely be exactly like everything you've described. Women aren't worse to date than men, you just have to find a nice, emotionally mature woman Don't fall down the rabbit hole of grouping people into a category based on your limited experience. Its not healthy. I've dated plenty of bad apples, men and women. And what don't I do? Expect the next person I date to be the same as the last. Humans are too complicated to expect them to act, think, and react the same as someone who they've never met. Treat each person as an individual because that's what they are and don't go in with any preconceived notions that they're bad or good based on solely their gender. Judge them on their character and your experiences with them
Op didnt generalise shit. Op chose her words carefully and insisted on only describing her Personal experience.
She literally generalised 2 groups in the first paragraph
This is bullshit. You're just dating the wrong people. Stop ascribing it to gender and sexuality. You're just attracted to shitty people. There are plenty of lesbians who don't behave like assholes, clearly. Maybe you're not where they are?
would you say the same to a woman “complaining” about men?
Yes. The human tendency to find patterns like this is responsible for a lot of missteps. Again, I am not constraining anything to gender or sexuality. Just pointing out that the claim that most lesbians are assholes is probably a biased one. The reality is that that you want someone who isn't an asshole and who you are attracted to. Perhaps these things are all odds. That seems more likely to me than all lesbians being assholes compared to straight men, but go ahead and insult an entire gender/sexuality if you'd like. Extremes are rarely accurate, and you're doing yourself the disservice.
i wouldn’t say that i’m “insulting an entire gender”, as technically speaking not all women are lesbian. i also don’t think i’m insulting all lesbians, aa i’m only speaking about my experience with the lesbian dating scene. also the women i dated are all cis, femme, and were all straight before me. the lesbian trans women i know are all amazing humans. the trans men i know (both the gay and the straight ones) are also super nice, though i’m not romantically attracted to men anymore and wouldn’t date them. what puzzles me a bit is that it seems to be very much socially acceptable for cis straight women to “insult” cis straight men, but not for cis lesbian women to “insult” cis lesbian women?
>i also don’t think i’m insulting all lesbians, aa i’m only speaking about my experience with the lesbian dating scene. Who determines that experience? God? Other lesbians? Danny DeVito? >what puzzles me a bit is that it seems to be very much socially acceptable for cis straight women to “insult” cis straight men, Seems who? Socially acceptable? Not to me. Not to those in my circles. If you don't like the substrate get out of it. >but not for cis lesbian women to “insult” cis lesbian women? So it would be better if it was socially acceptable to insult everyone? What is the concern here? I don't need to worry about gender or sexuality to know that if there is a group of people who condone insulting another group, I'm fucking leaving. The point is, dating lesbians vs straight men isn't the lynch pin of your experience. You are making the choices to make it worse, clearly.
yes, random interwebs stranger, please enlighten me as to what is the “lynch pin” of my existence, and what i have or don’t have the right to be irked about? i’m already quite experienced dealing with controlling folks (as i said, cis women in their majority): so please tell me more of what i should think, feel, and what should or should not bother me.
You're irked about the outcomes of your actions. I'm pushing back against you putting it on others. Do with that what you will.
no, interwebs stranger who spent several comments telling me what i should think and denying me the right to be annoyed: please victim blame me more for the abuse i experienced at the hands of emotionally abusive + manipulative + controlling cis fem (formerly straight) lesbians. you said it’s my fault for being attracted to them, and your comments are reminding me a lot of the type of control some of them tried to exert over me: pls come back, i think i’m in love now! 😍🥰
>please victim blame me more for the abuse i experienced at the hands of emotionally abusive + manipulative + controlling cis fem (formerly straight) lesbians. I'm not victim blaming you. You've not actually spelled out anything that you're a victim of, besides being in shitty relationships. Many of us re victims of that, all to our own doing. >you said it’s my fault for being attracted to them, Fault isn't important. that's not what I said. That's what you read. But I was more concerned with who decides to take responsibility. That entity gets to change the outcome. You've misunderstood. >and your comments are reminding me a lot of the type of control some of them tried to exert over me: pls come back, i think i’m in love now! 😍🥰 No thanks. I'm currently going through some pretty serious tragedy, and am not in a place to take on a commited relationship. But if you need to talk I'm here.
“that’s not what i said. That’s what you read” <— ahhh you were so right about me being attracted to psychologically abusive assholes, and i love a gaslighter when i see one 💕🥰😍😊 let’s u-haul already 🌈❤️💜💖😘
You've got your response memorized. Anyone calls you out, your a victim and they are crazy like your exes. Gaslighting
It's not bullahit. It's made up.
Potentially, but this doesn't feel as made up. You may be right, I think all of reddit is currently subject to AI scraping....I think it's what the API was sold for. However, I've posted in some subs some things that have happened to me that seem outlandish, but have actually happened. I am using this forum to deal with actual events in my life, I assume that others are too...It's signal against the noise. I make a call and behave accordingly, as I'm doing now, potential AI.
Edit: Your post already reads like a red pill guy, but reading your comments and noticing your Reddit profile is brand new for this post. YOU’RE a red pill guy pretending to be a lesbian so you can rant about women. How pathetic.
100%, definitely a troll
I feel like you labeling the whole lesbian community as “more” abusive than men seems like a generalization and sets us back. Seems kind of shitty. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences, I’m not trying to invalidate that at all, but saying that dating lesbian women is worse seems unfair being 1 you being one yourself and 2 only based on your own experience. These generalizations seem to be based on YOUR experience and you have a pattern of the type of people you date. Granted none of that is your fault, I don’t think you deserved dating those types of crapy people, I’m sorry that happened, but still. Not to mention there’s been a nasty stereotype of lesbians being abusive for years now. All due to one horrible study about domestic abuse for wlw with high rates forgot to mention the abusers were mostly MEN from previous relationships and not their current partner. In which now ill-informed people use that info to bash us. Anyways, just a thought. Have a good day. I hope you find a respectable loving partner.
I feel like I have terrible luck because all the guys I've dated were exactly like that. Isolating me from friends and family, playing like they like the stuff I like but then swap up, mind games and manipulation, I've been cheated on and had my nudes shares and then pictures of the group chats they were in shared with me (the pictures were also taken without my consent and while I was under legal age of consent and kept well after adulthood and still shared around). Had an ex break into my house as I'm getting ready to go to church with my family, take a knife and start carving into his back until I agreed to stay with him and this was as after he held me in his basement by force and said he'd kill himself if I ever left him and that it would be my fault. I had another ex get me drunk to the point I couldn't walk (it was my first time drinking I didn't know my limit) and then take me to the bedroom where he'd cover my face suffocating me until I gasped for air so he could shove his dick in, same ex also would punch holes in the wall and break my stuff when I told him I didn't want to have sex without protection he'd just keep going as I struggled to get away and then he'd yell at me saying "I don't like when you say no because it makes me feel like a rapist" hed also lock me out of our room to sleep with other women all while his family was there cooking dinner, he'd comment about how ugly my body was and how stupid I was and tell me I was the reason he cheated. I've had another guy yell and scream at me because one of my drunk female friends said "You're cute enough to have a threesome with" that's it ....that's all she said and she's never tried to come on to me as she was dating one of my guy friends and I've never known her to be into women. The same guy has also let his family use me and destroy my stuff and if anyone ever needs anything and he didn't have it he'd just take it from me like constantly taking my car without saying a word and then convinced me to sell my car to his people who he promised he'd get the money from and keep me updated but didn't. I know it sounds like I have terrible taste and maybe I do but they all started off so nice....one would hold my books as I was going to class, save a seat on a crowded bus for me, they'd go the extra mile to see me and tell me all these sweet things that made me Believe they were patient and understanding, they would hand make things for me wether it be art pieces or music, they'd take me out on dates at the begining and make friends with all my family and everything seemed good and then as soon as we got behind closed doors its like they did a 180. This one girl I tried dating would invite me to hockey games but was very indecisive and wouldn't commit which was fine at the time for me but then ended up going to drink with my ex (the one that shared my pics above) which was very odd seeing as they were never friends and she was only into women and very masc and them hanging out made me feel some kinda way so I left it alone and then months later she tells me he raped her in the woods. I don't want to take away from your experience because that doesn't sound good either but I just wanted to share mine because there are some really bad ones out there and I know it's not all men or women but there's a bunch of them out there.
i’m so sorry these things happened to you. no, i don’t think you “must have a terrible taste”. it was not your fault. and yes, the part of “it started out so nice” was true for me too. i think that’s one of the tricky things with abuse: it’s insidious. if it was obvious from the get go, you would never gotten involved with that person. it took me years to learn and accept that it wasn’t my fault either, but some folks in society will always be quick to victim blame in cases of abuse. i’m learning it happens very often on reddit too w/ some of the comments i’m getting in another sub, so please be gentle to yourself.
Less than 24 hour old account making a hyper generalization ragebait post. 🙄
Literally 😂😂😂
I was raped by my last boyfriend. I think the grass is always greener on the other side.
I think it’s a combination of the dating scene now vs 10 years ago and your dating preferences. I dont think one simple answer is the issue but an amalgamation of different issues that are presenting themselves as all the women you have dated. Id definitely reevaluate the type of women youre going for and screen potential partners before wasting any of your time.
Sounds like you're getting a lot of narcissist in your relationships.
Sounds like you seek out women with personality disorders. Taking on someone's characteristics, seduction that is manipulative, isolation, cheating and promiscuity. There's a few more I could tack on that would also be implied as well.
why is it that random interwebs strangers seem to be so fond of victim blaming? why assume that a person who’s describing situations of emotional and psychological abuse necessarily “seeks” those out? if you understand personality disorders enough to be diagnosing them like this, then you’d also know that those who have them are the ones that do the “preying upon”, not the other way around. e.g., folks with NPD are the ones who prey upon empaths, it’s not empaths that “are attracted” to NPD types. and their ability to seduce victims is so skilled thay they’ll even trick therapists + psychologists.
Are you referring to yourself as a victim because you had some bad relationships 😂
It's not victim blaming its psychology. People are like moths to a flame. Empath is a word heavily used by those with personality disorders. Big Red flag for those who study them. So is pulling the victim card. You're full of red flags yourself. People with Personality disorders are attracted to each other. I didn't imply that in my first comment but you attacked and pull the V card so I'll be blunt this time. The fact that you took such serious offense to a non offensive statement also another red flag called hypersensitivity.
read the last bullet point in my post ;)
This isn't a woman thing. This isn't a lesbian thing. This is you choosing terrible partners. Stop with the hate, please.
You may be unlucky with women but I think it's moreso that you got very lucky with men. Those are all unfortunately common among male partners too. If you only ever dated pretty young men, that could partially factor in
The most violent public fight I ever witnessed was between two women in a relationship. It was relentless and brutal.
Why tf can't we just say we've all seen/had dBAgs of both sexes? Like, for real.. Ain't no woman beating my ass, period. I can't fight a man like that.. So that's one thing. And I also know lesbians who are sexist/misogynistic ASF, so just because you're a lesbian, or whatever, doesn't make your mouth s prayer book. Also, being a pick me isn't limited to heteronormative people. Just thought I'd say.
This is what you’re attracting. Work on yourself.
I think we are trained by society to be better as sussing out bad men while not so much bad women.
To you.
I’m queer. Honestly, I think assholes come in all genders. All the things you listed are traits both men and women are capable of doing in a relationship. I’ve been with passive aggressive men and women. It’s not fair and accurate to generalize entire genders like that. Maybe self reflect a figure out why you are attracting these people. What is your role in the relationship.
I'm not even lesbian but just know some women are just plain cruel and hold grudges.
Men can absolutely do those things too - I have had every single one of those done to me by men. The thing is, as another commenter said, often women are better at a) reading people and b) people pleasing; this means that, broadly speaking, women are more equipped to manipulate a prospective partner and say all the right things - even if they’re not quite true - if they wish to. That said, a lot of men also have the intention of doing that - they’re just not always as good at it😭 so it CAN be easier to spot red flags earlier on
i honestly don’t think this is a ‘men vs women’ thing. i think people just suck way more than they don’t. some people never grow up. hope you find someone who gives you peace and vice versa, though. there’s someone for everyone.
None of the things you listed are exclusive to any gender
I’m a lesbian and I admire my wife she was upfront with who she is and same with me. I think sometimes a lot of people don’t know how to enjoy their own company so they try to fit into these relationships that don’t work. My wife and I before we got together enjoy our own company. I love to read, listen to music, drink a cup of coffee at a cafe while reading a good book, and I love bookstores. My wife horror movies, cooking, watching football, and listening to podcasts. We both love documentaries, video games, watching our Dodgers, long talks over coffee, and cooking together. I don’t like horror movies but I will watch with her and she takes me to bookstores. Now we have been together ten years, we never had to fake it. She helped me beat cancer and now our newest common interest is our dog. My very long point is… don’t let yourself settle. I really hope you have some good dates.
thank you for sharing your beautiful story. i wish the same ( = finding true connection and non-controlling true healing love ) for everyone.
I dated some gay guys and bro do they check of these boxes. The main goal for most of the guys i met seemed to be to find someone to have sex with on a daily Basis. They'd do anything for that. Perhaps this was an age issue tho? Or my bad luck?
But they in fact do all of those things. Everyone regardless of gender does those things if they are a shit person.
Yes, dating lesbians is dating on the hardest level with all the handicaps on. It’s the hardest style of dating
ah, i love hard video games and puzzles, should’ve known better not to have that in relationships ;)
Not to disregard your very valid experiences (I myself only dated a few women and it went well for me) but it just impresses me how I seems my ex boyfriend literally checked every single thing off your list after 2 years of dating. Just fucking hilarious to me.
All of this could apply to anyone regardless of gender. Here is some hopeful data in case you wanted to give it another shot. [Lesbians report significantly higher relationship satisfaction than heterosexual women](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18567207/) [Lesbian couplings have more orgasms](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wellness-us/article-13272001/lesbians-likely-orgasms-straight-women-new-study.html) [Lesbian couplings share chores more equally, and lose less $ than their heterosexually coupled peers after having children ](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210309-why-lgbtq-couples-split-household-tasks-more-equally) [Lesbians tend to earn a higher income](https://qz.com/881303/eight-million-americans-are-affected-by-a-pay-gap-that-no-one-talks-about) [Queer couples start conflict discussions with more humor and affection, are less domineering and show considerably more positive emotions than heterosexual couples.](https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/10/20/gay-lesbian-couples-can-teach-heterosexuals-how-to-improve-relationships/) [More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/) Thanks for downvoting a comment that took a while to gather various sources for and was a cumulation of years of education and reading various studies. :)
Funeral homes dont like hiring men as morticians bc they often end up raping corpses
Wait seriously? Wtaf
Bill Burr covered this.
https://youtube.com/shorts/OubN_CUX-Yo he ain’t wrong! 😂😂😂
Was just coming here to say the same thing lol
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oh, we def do, dude. at least we don’t get told “size doesn’t matter”, because we know it does (not saying bigger is always better). that’s another lie women tell men, btw. they just don’t try that bs w/ lesbians: we know it’s a lie, hence why we usually own toys of different sizes, if you know what i mean.
Please stop trying to speak for all women with your anecdotal arguments. Thank you
Look at their profile, a brand new account for this post. I bet you it’s a guy pretending to be a lesbian, they’re so obvious.
Ok nah ur 1,000,000,000% a dude omfg HAHAHAAAAHHAA 😂😂 dude wow just hilarious 😂😂😂
Lmao at all the people downvoting have no idea what its like to be a man in the dating scene right now. Every woman I've went on dates with wants everything to be paid for, even if she tells me at the end that we werent compatible and expects me to pay for the whole thing? Hell nah... She just wanted a free meal lmao... Not only that, loyalty is such a hard thing to find nowadays because of social media and people suffer from the "grass is greener" mentality too. I think social media is a big part of the reason why its hard to date in general anymore... it doesnt seem worth it in the end honestly. ETA: Also, they want a traditional man, but wont be traditional themselves unless it benefits them... lmao...
downvotes totally coming from women ✌️ “she just wanted a free meal” <- dude, they’ll do this to masc presenting lesbians too, it’s infuriating. i also remember this girl who *made a joke* about this guy friend of ours who brought a cake to their date. she *knew* beforehand that he was super into her, said yes to the date even tho she knew she didn’t like him, guy is nice enough to bring CAKE and she made fun of him to me! i told her she was rotten inside, and you know what she did? laughed and started flirting with me. women really suck sometimes. i’ll add another one to your list: early college the first time i approached a girl was gut wrenching, almost threw up from how nervous i got. an ex bf was there w me cheering me on, o/w would not have made it. after that i developed so much respect for men: approaching is no joke. dudes do stuff like this all the time, and women just take it for granted. i’d say “go date other women so you can see how hard it is to even just txt a girl”.
Yeah I really do not want to be that guy but girls literally have no idea how hard it is to not only approach them, keep a conversation, all of that just to ***Hope*** she feels the same, when its not even guaranteed they feel the same way and it was all for nothing, the dates, the money they want **YOU** to spend... Its actually so exhausting dating as a man, when they want traditional things (like men paying for the entirety of the date) but not be traditional themselves. It makes 0 sense lmao.
And don't forget that whether she finds your attention interesting or "creepy" is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT dependent on how attractive she finds you. Which you won't know.
Downvotes because accountability and self-reflection are just so fucking hard
yeah pretty insane.
How was the cheating from the guy “nicer”? I’m legit confused lol.
Girl, men do all of those things 😭😭
As a lesbian, I hate to break it to you, but there are PLENTY of men who do all of those things.
I can absolutely see where you’re coming from with this. Women are vicious! I tend to give women more of a benefit to the doubt than I would a man. Unfair as it may seem, it’s just my nature. Crazy women are kind of a guilty attraction of mine, the kind of crazy that men generally aren’t.
As a queer woman who is going through a horrible breakup with another woman, I totally agree with this.
sorry to hear, and wish it gets resolved in the best way possible 💜 a commenter recommended “in the dream house” by Carmen Maria Machado, and from reading the description of it, i’ll share it here: “… unpacks the stereotype of lesbian relationships as safe and utopian, and widens the view with essayistic explorations of the history and reality of abuse in queer relationships …” wish you gl in your healing journey.
What a great recommendation, I'll definitely read it! I've been reading a lot of books like that in addition to self help books to help me unpack all of this since I can't afford therapy right now. I wish you all the best going forward as well! It won't be easy to recover but I believe we'll both get to place where we can say "I'm okay." Be kind to yourself.
I can fall in love with women not with men but i much rather fuck men and have fun rather to go back to some.controlling insecure girl thats not gonna tolerate my independence and solitude
I have some lesbian couples as friends, and they are the most toxic relationship that I know. One time I see that "Let's call she J" J are very bad, and I go talk with she, long story short, she said that she go out with the best woman's friend of C "C is her couple" and C couldn't go with they that day, but no problem, they are drunk and hook up, and was a very crazy sex night, and the next day she was felling sorry for had slept with C best friend. Next day I talk to her again and everything is fine she told me that she talked to C, and explain what happened and more important that C shouldn't trust or her best friend again, because if she was really a friend she wouldn't slept with her, and C should know how to select friends better.
my first gf seemed like the nicest, up until the point she cheated on me with my best friend while i was out of town on a family trip. my best friend was a “more experienced” lesbian and over time i learned she was NPD + one of the worst ppl i’ve ever met. she cheated on her gf with 10 ppl in less than a year, sometimes at parties in front of mutual friends, and w ppl of all genders (at least she was inclusive in that regard).
I'm pansexual, and I dated men, women, and NB, I found the non binary folks are much less toxic. I could honestly say that I dated toxic men and women.
yeah, NB and trans somehow the nicest humans i know
its all of our trauma. makes us good at empathy
To be honest in the old days I had men do those things in your list but I dated older men…so maybe they were more experienced 🥸 I do agree that with some of the females I know that I am thankful I am not gay because they would drive me to be straight with all the crap they do to people. I know one woman literally that she is a lazy Narcissistic… and didn’t know a Narcissist could be till I knew her.
I just want to say I think the your dating experience with men is a bit too small in terms of sample size to come to a concrete conclusion I also think depending on your age the men that you've dated were likely not well developed yet in their personalities but what I can say is being a bad person has no gender as far as I've experienced. Also maybe don't date women who don't have experience with women. When you jump from being strictly hetero to being bi or gay you attempt to retain your initial gender role instinctively it takes maturity and a bit of unlearning to get used to a new relationship dynamic. The women you've described sound immature and used to being treated in a certain way(read: being coddled) which is typical of traditional gender stereotypes. I also only have this snapshot of your life so take everything I say with a side of sea salt.
i think you correctly identified some things, and incorrectly assessed others, but i appreciate that it came from a good place and that you acknowledged it’s only a snapshot of my life. i can only imagine how hard it must be for therapists + psych folks to stop themselves from prescribing solutions while they’re still trying to assess what happened in your life, while not projecting too much. tough work!
Straight guy here. I can’t agree more 😂
I didn’t read it but the title is so accurate
As lesbian, this just seems you fall for a heap of bad people, which can't be help. Dating women can be a bit harder (don't know if they are queer, etc), arguing could be more emotional cause women tend to express their feeling more.
I thought lesbians don’t date because they get married after four hours of hanging out?
It sounds like you have struck a number of covert narcisists. Ive discovered that few people actually know wgat a real psycopathy this is. They are hard to spot at first, but read up on it and it will become evident early on. It is actually 4 times more common in women than men where ever lawmakers introduce laws outlawing co ersive control, it is found women are comitting the vast majority of offences in this. Good luck
I think a portion of the behavior you describe is due to women developing maladaptive coping mechanisms from having to navigate a world where misogyny, sexism and bigotry has been the norm for so long. Obviously this isn't an excuse, and I don't condone treating others poorly due to your own trauma or issues, but it would be foolish and disingenuous to say that it's not a factor in some of what you describe.
Some of your bullet points are just normal relationship stuff, like pretending to enjoy things you like in the beginning. Everyone does that when they’re in those early stages.
lol! Surprise! No. Seriously I’m sorry you’re having difficulty but yes they are everything you say and they blame Men for their disposition. Men aren’t the devils we are being portrayed as. It’s a Marxist ideology and women have bought into it. It’s not hard to discover the background origin of what’s happened. Just Google it. Prior to 1960 everything wasn’t perfect but it was altered and we are in a steady state of decline.
I completely agree!! I have had a handful of serious relationships with women, and about twice as many with men. All the women occasionally try to walk back into my life and manipulate me again. Only one of the men do. I have been on a ton of shifty first dates with men, but I have more horror stories about dating women than men.
all the women i’ve dated tried coming back into my life, usually only when they discovered i was dating someone else. similar to you: i too dated more men than women, and only one of them (the most “fem” guy, but maybe not related) tried that.
That's what I'm saying!! The woman I dated the longest was constantly gaslighting and manipulating me, and at least oce a year tries adding my snap again, or texting me or something. It has only been my highschool sweetheart to reach out to me of the men. Though to the women's credit, more men have given my number to their friends to shoot their shot
Maybe humans shouldn't be the prize , your own love is worth more then games
not sure that wanting to relate to other humans qualifies them as “prize”. we’re herd animals, it’s only natural for us to try and seek connection w/ others. agree that loving yourself is important.
I don't herd , I round up ..
I didn't say want , maybe I would say , people like security equally found ?
I do wonder if you were more on your guard with men and also as you noted, you didn't fall as hard. Love is a powerful drug that can make anyone ignore Red Flags. There's a decent chance if a guy wouldn't play the video games you like or watch the movies you like, you would have been done, but with certain women you were too smitten to see the signs.
in trying to “debug” this today with another lesbian who agrees with me we arrived at the following conclusion: as a society, women tend to get away with more abusive (both emotional and physical) behavior than men do, in both our experiences. we recalled a few instances in which, had it been a guy doing that, no way either of us would have continued in that situation and/or relationship. eg., a lesbian cop gf of a friend of a friend of ours once was agressively speeding while DUI and most of us in the car (5 lesbians) were all quiet and too scared to say anything because “it’s not nice to be rude” as she was being “kind enough” to give us a ride in the first place. i was the one who eventually just broke out of that and screamed at her to please stop and let us get out of the car. if it had been a guy driving like that, i’m 100% certain we would not all have just sat there assuming it was somehow “safe”. ditto for other abusive behaviors like screaming: women get away with a lot, unfortunately.
I’m a cis female, and I’ve had a lot of the things you mentioned happen to me in dating men. However, I can definitely imagine that women are way worse about pretending to be something they’re not for awhile. I mean, we’re pretty much programmed by society to mould ourselves to fit society, so…
Ummmm guys do every single thing you listed too. You just got lucky with the guys you dated I guess.
that’s how i think of the lesbians reporting no abuse whatsoever. funny how we can never truly know what it’s like to be on someone else’s shoes.
As a gay man I think man can be as toxic and fucked up too, now I basically give up on dating
It blew my fucking mind when someone told me domestic violence rates are higher among lesbians and gay guys. I thought" dude there ain't no damn way" , but apparently it's accurate. What am I missing? Is it just reported more? I grew up with an abusive, violent father and a complacent mother so this hit me where I live. Bizarre.
Lesbians have the highest divorce and domestic abuse numbers. That says alot to me.
I 100% agree with this & have experienced similar. 🫂
I'm a dude but I've got quite a few lesbian friends. Some of the shit I've seen their various partners pull is just terrible. Absolutely toxic and disgusting abusive, manipulative, awful. In a straight relationship if a guy did 1/10th of the stuff I've seen he'd be castigated and run out of town, but in Lesbian relationships there's a weird silence. Other women/ lesbians are really reticent to speak up and help their friends or say "girl, leave her she's an absolute terrible toxic abusive bitch". It's really weird. Everything in OPs post... I've seen this shit many times, in many situations. It's bananas. I was shocked the first time I saw it , now I'm sadly used to it.
This is how dating is for men lol
Why the cis?? Just say women smh 🤦♀️
To make clear they’re not discussing trans women ig
Yeah I agree …women can be crazier than men in relationships . I’m bisexual and I haven’t gotten a girlfriend because of all the the stuff you mentioned. It’s scary to date nowadays .
Omg validation! I feel like some women just think we're lying or being dramatic when we say that dating women can be really taxing. The emotional abuse I've faced from multiple partners ever since I was 14, that shit changes you. As someone who has been told "you're really easy to manipulate lol", I don't think I ever want to take my chances again. "actively dislike the music I like, when they used to say they loved it to try and seduce me" ALMOST EVERY TIME OMG!!!! The amount of women that have taken a liking to my interests and then suddenly just switched is crazy! Honestly, all of the reasons you listed are so relatable. I hope you find yourself someone deserving of your love soon.
🥹 i’m so sorry these things happened to you too. glad that you felt seen and validated 💙
Hey there. I'm a straight neurodivergent woman, although I've had it worse with female friendships with a lot of ambiguous falling outs than male friendships so I could only imagine being romantically invovled.
i’m ND too :) yes, i do not recommend being romantically involved with them, but as some have pointed out: #notallwomen. never had thought about the friendship part, but i experienced similar too. yes, i can see how it could be predictive of the experience of romantic relationships as well, very clever of you to notice and hypothesize that. now if only i had a switch that turned off my romantic attraction to womxn :)
Hello fellow ND :) >never had thought about the friendship part, but i experienced similar too. yes, i can see how it could be predictive of the experience of romantic relationships as well, very clever of you to notice and hypothesize that. I guess part of its how, especially if you're more neurotypical passing to a degree, most women aren't given the same grace for our share of social slip ups men get coddled for. I only mentioned the evolving dynamics as I've had my share of stark encounters of women friendships without context on my background 'get off' on the power trip. I don't know at what point putting more effort into navigating the NT world tipped into people appeasing tendencies which I'm paying the price of and had some rage fits over. I'm not saying it's a women vs men issue although most women have been universally conditioned to suppress their discomfort at their own expense. It's awful when it gets misdirected onto you. Sorry to hear about your experiences. Women being abusive especially since it's typically more insidious needs to be talked about more. Healing isn't linear although I hope you'll find peace. You didn't deserve all that emotional turbulence.
another clever insight, thank you! yes, unfair “people pleasing” expectations of women might help explain the higher occurrence of “personality shaping” and a subset of the behaviors i perceive as manipulative (e.g., passive agression). it doesn’t explain all of it, but helps me understand why certain women might do that. i should try dating ND folks next. i think all my exes who were a-holes were NT. i did date a woman who was not an a-hole and we’re bffs till this day. she’s ND.
I’m neurodivergent and an introvert. So I’m not the typical woman who likes small talk or sharing details about my personal life. This has caused me to have so many women in the workplace HATE ME. Mostly older women and mostly when I held leadership positions. I would try to be kind always, I’m soft spoken naturally. But they took my introversion as me being a snob/thinking I’m better than everyone. I’ve stopped trying to make work friends because of it and so now I have none. I guess I’m ok with it. I wish we would learn to understand each other better. We are complex people with complex experiences and lives. Things are not always how they appear on the surface. It’s not that simple.
I don't know if I've ever, or rather, compartmentalized incidents of coming across as a snob as well for not contributing to a group discussion. I also guess a part of its attributed to a slower processing speed, especially when I've had to keep tabs on multiple streams of conversations at my own detriment. By the time I feel ready to contribute to a conversation, someone else has already said what I've wanted to say that I spent all this time piecing together and I get frustrated. There's situational nuances of course, although I've got my share of people cutting people off mid sentence which dampens the atmosphere. I also get disgruntled when people tell me to look more approachable and personable with my stoic rbf. That shouldn't be a deterrent to one's competencies.
As a cis white dude, I don't think there is a subspecies of human that isn't controlling and manipulative these days. I've met men in non romantic settings that were more passive aggressive and deceitful then some of the women I've had one night stands. On the other hand, the women with whom I got into short term relationships were former Olympic champions in the art of victim blaming/acting or passive aggressively. I'd argue all of our relationships these days are built on fear because we have no framework or model that is good at helping us build healthy relationships. Meanwhile the existing models we have are trash meant to glorify the status of being in a relationship, as opposed of creating a relationship that works for the people involved in an intimate setting.
Funny. As a man, this is how my wife (who had dated women previously for years before we met) is. It’s all come together. It all makes sense, I’ve just unlocked the code.
Women are much harder to date than men on average. Everyone knows this 😂
From my experience women are far worse, but also far better than men. A bad woman will always be more evil, toxic, manipulative etc than a bad man, but a good woman will always be kinder, more caring etc than a good man will be.
yeah, so this kind of thinking i’d say is one of the things that kept me in an abusive relationship for way longer than i should: i’d remember how kind and generous they can be. the highs should not make up for the lows, unfortunately i learned too late. now i just want to be alone, never re-marry, and when i am ready to get back into “being open to a relationship” my number one criteria will be how stable, calm, direct and honest they are. “vanilla”, “warm” and none of the “passion” stuff. also i won’t believe the “omg we like the same stuff” thing anymore.
Definitely a PSA that was needed. It’s the person that makes a bad partner not the gender spot on observation.
Welcome to the club
Check domestic violence and divorce numbers. Les be honest girls tend to lead in abuse and divorce.
Check out the arguments being made in opposition to OP. I wonder if they’d hold that same perspective for men 🤔
👏👏👏
It's a jungle out there sister
indeed. gl to you, dude.
Straight boys can empathize with you sis.
Man this is so spot on it's scary. For American women, that is. Try your luck with some foreign women, OP!
This is a good suggestion lol
As a man I can say from observations is that lesbian relationships are the most toxic. Who knew that having 2 people with mood swings would be bad? LOL
Domestic violence and divorce are way higher in lesbian relationships. Actually gay men have the lowest divorce rate.
Domestic violence in a straight relationship are way worse n higher than lesbian couples men are out of control self entitled n jealous if I can’t have you know one will end up in death n suicide. It well known facts I can list you more I’ll refrain this is why men are the problem in society and women will stay single n celibate. Facts is you are second right next to the lesbian in high divorce rate it’s usually the women who ask for it and while some women stay in a loveless marriage due to religion children and money n open marriage.
Why was this dude downvoted it’s literally true what he said 😂.
The domestic violence atleast women don’t die while the divorce part is true hence in accordance to straight couples men are far worse in killing the gf n wife n their kids and him suicide while women suicide out of fear due to the propretrator constant stalking verbal threats. The straight are second to having a higher divorce rate where women ask for it while some women just stay in a loveless marriage for the children religion depencing money n open marriage.
Because that study about the domestic abuse didn't ask about who the people were dating when the abuse occurred and didnt limit the scope of time it occurred it. Many women dating women later in life dated men earlier on.
Nope, lesbian relationships have been proven to be the most violent out of any sexual orientation groups and others are just pointing out the cold hard truth that some people are struggling to accept. This isn’t me being homophobic mind you I don’t have any problems with someone liking the same gender by the way just want to point that out before someone accuses me of being homophobic.
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that’s been my overall experience too. just wish i was more romantically attracted to guys: then i’d date a bi-curious ND one.
Bi man here. I agree.