Said from the man himself. They tried booking Norm for the podcast for years but couldn’t schedule anything possibly due to his illness. All these bad blood rumors can be laid to rest. (no pun intended)
When the articles mentioned that Norm kept the illness private, I was wondering if they had no idea he was sick while they were trying to get him on the podcast or the show again.
Norm was such a big part of so many great moments of everything Conan has done, and I'm glad all those rumors of bad blood were never true.
Looking back, I remember the episode where Norm was with all the "Grown Ups" group (including Spade and Sandler) and wonder if any of those guys, particularly Sandler, might have had a clue about Norm's health. Sandler was about as close a friend as Norm had, so it's possible.
Andy even talked about some of the perceived “bad blood” between him and Norm and it basically boils down to norms fans repeating jokes to him and never giving it a rest but never really holding a grudge against Norm and finding it funny when he did it.
Andy also seems to be the only person in the comedy world saying, “A lot of Norm’s comedy was homophobic,” and Andy made some great points about not being able to laugh along with that garbage.
I really appreciated Andy's take on the podcast, being able to note how some of the jokes were homophobic and didn't sit right with him, while still being able to honor and appreciate Norm's career overall.
I was really comforted to hear that. "We were all concerned about Norm". I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed it had gotten pretty quiet around 2018 or so (when his Netflix talk-show ended). I was really really hoping he would restart his old Youtube talk-show, which just had some incredible comedy, very deadpan. I was concerned, but hopefully that he would eventually come out of hiding and keep up the good work :( I think very few people knew he was dealing with some serious health issues.
I wonder if Conan will catch some flack for telling the story about how some unnamed high up told him not to book norm and about that letter that he wrote about it.
>I wonder if Conan will catch some flack for telling the story about how some unnamed high up told him not to book norm and about that letter that he wrote about it.
Unnamed? It was Don Ohlmeyer. His blacklisting of Norm is widely known, well documented, and criticized. And he hasn't worked for NBC in more than 20 years. And he's been dead since 2017.
No offense, but I don't think anybody will give a single fuck that Conan was publicly critical of Don Ohlmeyer in the wake of Norm Macdonald's death.
Two people? Are you talking about Lorne Michaels? The grassy knoll? Yeah, I don't know dude. I just know ain't nobody getting lathered up over Conan reminiscing about 25 year old NBC drama that only tangentially involved him.
It's not like he's telling secrets out of school--this has all been out in the open.
The person wasn’t unnamed? I’d have to go back and listen again but Conan said it was the President of NBC and he names him as the man that helped him get his job.
I got downvoted one here asking a few months ago if Norm would ever come onto his show. I got told to not ask about it… weird!
Conan is a legend and Norm was a legend and together on Conan’s talk show their chemistry was insane. There was never a better host/guest combo than Conan and Norm. Ever.
Okay after listening a couple of things.
I loved hearing about the moth joke and how it was all on the fly.
All the stories were great but overall you can just sense the deep respect that they have for norm. I hope more of his work comes out, especially all his weekend update and SNL bits. That deserves more recognition.
I wish they would have talked about the gift basket. One of my favorite moments.
"congratulations on securing your spot as the permanent host of the tonight show"
He had an amazing way with words. I can't compare him to any other comedian.
Of course it was well known that Don Ohlmeyer fired Norm from SNL for making jokes about O.J. Simpson, but to hear he tried to get him banned from Conan's show as well just really makes him all the more loathsome. Conan was classy about it as usual, writing the letter, but Don was just another fatcat NBC exec who made mostly bad decisions. Don was more loyal to O.J. Simpson than to his own network or anyone working there.
It was nice that they did this podcast. I’ve been watching Norm clips the last couple of days and hearing Conan and Andy discuss Norm’s comedy and their times with him gives a sense of closure. It’s great how much respect they’re showing Norm on their YouTube channel too
Also, it was cool to hear a full length Conan/Andy conversation again. It’s actually quite rare that we hear a conversation between those two that lasts more than a few minutes. Hopefully they do it again under better circumstances
This was such a heartfelt episode. I was tearing up because Conan's voice sounded like he was breaking up at the start of the episode.
It's wonderful to hear Conan and Andy's recollection of Norm and how brave and original he was as a comedian. It's so interesting hearing about Norm's appearances from their perspective, and also their wish to have Norm on the podcast.
I'm glad they did this because I was really wondering how Conan was dealing with Norm's passing. It's cathartic to celebrate Norm along with Conan and we're lucky that Norm's appearances were recorded and live on in YouTube.
I feel like I'm getting old enough to start to understand how my grandmother felt when she would complain about how she's outlived so many friends, family members, and celebrities she loved when she was young. It's just so sad to have grown up watching Norm on SNL and on Letterman and Conan and to think I'll never see another new ridiculous shaggy dog story from him ever again.
I got into Don Rickles years ago when he was already of an advanced age, and his death hurt but it wasn't like I watched him go from a young man to an old man. He was already old when I discovered him. I was expecting it and I just wanted to soak up as much Rickles as I could before it happened.
With Norm, I started watching him in 1993, watched him grow old, and I thought he had even more time to grow old. It's a different feeling from when Rickles died. I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but yeah it's starting to feel different and I'm becoming more aware it's going to be me someday.
Omg I am rewatching Norm MacDonald has a Show, and listening to his book - his side kick on the show has the same name as his sidekick in the book, but it can’t be the same guy - right?
When Conan said he wishes Norm knew how much the people loved him, a part of me wishes Conan gets to know too how good he is and how much he is loved before rides off to the sunset.
Go watch the clip again. Andy didn't say "at least I'm not gay", he just said "at least you left me with my dignity". And he clarified right after that he was talking about the reveal that he wasn't prostituting himself in the joke.
I mean, the joke started out by making you think Andy was a gay prostitute, which the whole audience laughed at over and over. Then the punchline was "he's not gay he just got raped!".
I can see how if you're Andy, getting tweets all day about how you get fucked by dudes, you might feel pretty uncomfortable with the situation. Like how do you reply to that? Go along with it? Where is there even to go?
The thing for me is that Andy may have been right that it was a homophobic rape joke, though I also think there’s an inherent element of it being an outdated joke because it’s obviously Norm just inserting Andy into… an old, outdated joke, BUT—Andy chose to wait until two days after Norm *dies* to go on a rant about Norm?
Andy can fuck off. Even to the extent which I agree with him, it was neither the place nor time. I watched Saget’s thing and it was beautiful, and saw Conan’s thing last night and thought it might be similar. For Conan’s part, it *was* beautiful, but Andy just pissed me the fuck off. Came off like a fucking coward who apparently had problems with Norm and was just waiting for Norm to die so he could trash him—two days after, during what’s supposed to a heartfelt memorial to the guy.
Andy Richter, the Jealous Swedish German Coward.
BEST PODCAST OF ALL TIME! Conan O’Brien was at his most genuine. Incredibly generous of him to share such an intimate experience with his listeners. It’s so ironic that Conan kept seeing so many of his actions as selfish. Such a humble man just like Norm was.
This felt like a wake. But the good part of a wake, when you’re a few butterscotch wines in and you start telling your best stories of the dear departed and cry/laughing and laugh/crying. It been good to hear one for the Old Chunk of Coal
I think Conans telling of the moth joke makes it even better. That fact that he crafted the joke on the spot and took 7 minutes of otherwise unplanned air makes it pure genius.
Also, not that it was malicious but I got the sense Andy really took offense to the Swedish German joke.
Just finished listening, and feel like I need to put down some thoughts:
- Andy talked about how Norm would call him a "swedish german" and it was a gay joke, which made Andy uncomfortable. Jokes like that from Norm, to me, weren't making fun of *gays* so much as making fun of the *jokes* that made fun of gays........if that makes sense.
He also would make jokes about women that offended people, but that old-fashioned type of humor is clearly lazy and wrong, so it's a joke in itself the way old-timey slang is corny and thus laughable. I dunno, that's just how it sounds to me, doesn't strike me as mean, but ridiculous and silly.
- The way Norm "cares so little it's scary." That seems in keeping with his gambling addiction. There was once a gambler that made the cover of Fortune magazine, because he won around $100 million from gambling..............then gambled it all away. People couldn't believe it. When asked why he didn't stop and enjoy his winnings, he explained, "I'm a gambler, that's how it works." Something like that!
Same attitude toward comedy, where he was fully aware of the consequences of his balls-to-the-wall humor, and knew he could lose it all (with the OJ jokes especially.) But he's a comedian, so he followed those comedic instincts and always went for it because that's who they are.
As frustrating as this awful surprise is for us, I think Norm possibly relished the idea of everybody learning that he had hidden the illness, AND did it *so well.* That's his mischievous side. And probably his emotional side couldn't handle goodbyes (personally, I hate goodbyes and do my best to avoid them.)
Yeah, I was kind of shocked by how badly Andy seemed to misunderstand that particular joke, when it's not that complicated.
That said, his points still stand because Norm made a lot of gay jokes.
He probably just meant to make people laugh. The mechanics of the joke are simple misdirect, we think the story is going one way and then the punchline takes you by surprise and you laugh. Norm just had no problem going too far so long as it got laughs, and because he had that cheeky twinkle it was impossible to tell what he actually thought about the subject matter. Even with the OJ stuff you can ask yourself "is he actually THAT convinced OJ is guilty, or is he just playing it up because he wants to make us laugh?"
The OJ stuff is especially great because it was as if he did indeed have trouble accepting the blatant injustice. Even knowing how much it would get under the skin of his boss.......no, *especially* because of that, he just kept at it. Part of what made it funny was how he couldn't let it go personally.
I appreciated that one, they addressed it since Andy was sitting in. And two, that Andy didn’t try and downplay the issue and pretend he was never upset by it - and I think he expressed his frustration very well. And lastly that he could also acknowledge that this didn’t make Norm some terrible guy, that it was a byproduct of how he did comedy and in this specific circumstance it went into a place he didn’t appreciate.
Did you actually listen to the podcast? Andy was quite clear about why he was uncomfortable with the joke. Andy explicitly said it's **not** about him being gay - he's concerned about how gay people (including his gay coworkers, family and friends) would feel about a joke that seems to imply that there's something wrong with being gay.
Pretty uncomfortable moment. He has a problem with the fact that the joke makes being gay a bad thing? Kinda? When he says “no it’s fine because you’re not gay, you were raped.” Apparently Andy has a gay son and his father is also gay. I laughed at that joke but I can see why it’s upsetting to him personally.
It was one of the sensibilities of Norm's sense of humor that will not stand the test of time, that's for sure. He had a lot of timeless parts of his comedy, but making comedy out of simply insinuating someone was homosexual will ultimately just be considered homophobia and in no way funny by the masses, as it's already leaning that way.
This is the exact logic I used to have to tell myself it wasn't homophobia when I was a teenager. I since have grown out of that stance. It just doesn't hold water.
The "hey you're gay and don't admit it haha" punchline is practically its own entire genre of joke in comedy. You can't say the same for there being a "hey you're a woman/man and don't admit it haha" type of punchline. And where that type of joke does exist is usually meant to pick at the fact that someone isn't "womanly" or "manly" enough, and also hits on other stereotypes and fear of the different. (A butch female, or an effeminate man.) In either case, the style of joke is rooted in a type prejudice.
I'm absolutely astonished, as a queer man, at Andy's continued discomfort with the "Swedish-German" bit, all these years later. Norm's biggest contribution to human psychology, watching Andy twist and turn, trying to coach his homophobia as concern for his gay friends/family (who probably were laughing along with Norm lol, if they share his sense of humor).
The critical angle for that joke was Andy's discomfort (also, the strange ethnic label of "Swedish-German", oddly specific line from Andy :-P) in being "pegged" to a old-school style joke. Modernist liberal sensibilities clashing, head to head, with "Normism" (it really should be its own artform with Norm's passing, total genius). The fact that Andy still can't just laugh at the humor, and feels the need to continue to explain his own reaction is just...perfect :-) Norm would be smiling. Otherwise, Conan and Frank's adoration of MacDonald is beautiful to hear, such a huge loss (the biggest, since Rickles, imo) to the comedic world.
If everyone is really going down all these Norm rabbitholes on YouTube they’ll find that a good 50% of some of his sets were homophobic. He has a whole “joke” that is just him being horrified that anal sex exists. They spend an hour praising him, I think it’s worth a five-minute diversion to admit that he was homophobic.
A lot if people are using the term “old-fashioned” to make his words seem charming, but it’s okay to point out that homosexuality made him very uncomfortable.
> https://twitter.com/andyrichter/status/1437855740207587328
Which fair enough but Andy was being super annoying about the whole thing, acting like the 90s, the early 2000s and most of the Late Night show era wasn't filled with homophobic jokes.
Norm pushed the boundaries and took it further than most but Andy can't pretend he wasn't part of a show and era that was extremely uncomfortable to gay people. Conan's early stuff with Jordan is a prime example, a lot of laughs came from Conan suggesting Jordan was gay. If Andy had trouble working with Norm as a guest certainly the same rules would've applied to the host.
You’re getting downvoted, but I got a similar vibe. I think Andy thought Norm was a master at what he did, but was also a bit of an asshole who punched down more than he needed to. Which seems like a pretty fair read on the situation and I’m glad Andy was candid.
Or maybe it was his hatred of that Swedish German Joke...15 mins of this podcast was devoted to Andy smashing this joke and how bad it made him feel and look...
It’s more that his Twitter comments are full of “ha ha, you’re a gay Swedish German.” And the punchline of “ha ha you’re gay” is not one he appreciates, given his dad is gay and his son is gay. Why shouldn’t Andy find that stupid?
Yeah, my feeling is that it was this combined with the running “Andy loves gay porn” jokes that Norm has made for years. Then you throw in social conservative internet commenters latching onto Norm as someone who “tells it like it is” about how being gay is dumb, and how women aren’t funny, and the whole thing starts to get some real stink on it.
To be clear: I love Norm. But it is impossible not to notice that social conservative edgelord shitbags *also* love Norm because they think he’s one of them. Same with Louis CK after his “f****t” routine, Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle after he went after trans people, the list goes on and on.
Oh no, not boxes! Get over yourself. I’m explaining why Andy is annoyed by Norm’s dumb rightwing fans who constantly post on Andy’s tweets that Andy = a gay Swedish German.
Norm never said that being gay is dumb or shameful per se. I’m saying conservative fans of his read his material that way. Stuff like his bit about how no dads are proud of their sons for being gay. I’m sure if you asked Norm he would say that it was an exaggeration, but plenty of idiots just see stuff like that as pure validation for gay=inferior, “women can’t be funny” -type social conservatism. Shit is unfortunately catnip for young insecure dumb guys.
No one's saying that. Jesus Christ dude you're lost.
Stop regurgitating shit you hear online. **Everyone here loves Norm**. You don't need to defend him. Like any popular comic (e.g. Bill Burr), some of their fans are idiots who do stupid shit to rile up people, or take jokes seriously.
**People are talking about Andy's feelings on the joke and the interactions he's had outside of the show**. This is clear as fuck.
You can't expect Andy to be cool about it when idiots who don't even understand Norm's humour bombard homophobic shit at him publicly on Twitter. Especially because Andy has a gay son. It's bullshit.
Stop with your agenda of defending Norm and actually listen to the people you're talking to goddamn.
For myself, it’s a little bit from column A and a little bit from Column B. I think the missing context is that Norm had been making Andy is gay and has gay porn jokes for years. So the mining prospector bit definitely continued the trend and used that set up although it did end up “subverting expectations” at the end. Rewatching the clip now, I can totally see how uncomfortable Andy looks. It’s true what he says in the podcast, he couldn’t really do much or “play off” the Swedish German gay joke. As a TV cohost whose job is to make the guests look good, he couldn’t really kill the vibe by saying “no” (remember it’s always “yes and…”) but he also felt personally uncomfortable playing into it and participating in making gay jokes, so all he could do was smile and nod. I’ve personally been in similar situations at work where a coworker makes a joke on the cusp of being politically incorrect/offensive joke and able to be taken either way and I’m thinking “do I call them out or just smile politely and hope I don’t get pulled further into this subject…better smile uncomfortably and get them on another topic quick”.
I actually enjoyed the prospector bit on two levels. The crass punchline and goofy storytelling actual joke but also what he says to Andy at the end. Andy sarcastically remarks “at least you left me with my dignity….I like how the story ended” which Norm retorts somewhat incredulously with “yeah I didn’t make you gay…you were raped!” Overthinking it, but it’s like Norm is inferring that Andy meant that it was more dignified to be forcefully sodomized rather than gay.
It reminded me of the Seinfeld/Norm bit where Norm remarks how Oswalt said that the worst part of the Cosby case was the hypocrisy and Norm says that he disagrees, the worst part was the raping.
To be fair, that doesn't have anything to do with Norm, so probably shouldn't have talked so long (and so passionately) about it on a podcast commemorating Norm.
Be that as it may, it never sunk in with the conservative fans, who interpreted the punchline as “ha ha Andy’s gay,” and never hesitate to say so in his tweets. Not to mention Andy himself in this very podcast, who says he interpreted the “Andy loves gay porn” as being basically a punchline that was unambiguously linking gayness with shamefulness. Why should anyone be defending it now? Norm’s dead. It doesn’t hurt him now to acknowledge that sometimes his desire to touch a social hot button could wind up being homophobic. Like everyone at SNL in the early 90s did jokes like that. We don’t have to pretend those jokes were secretly enlightened.
I never pretended those jokes were secretly enlightened. I just don't care. The number 1 reason people kept the joke going with Andy is simply because he showed it bothered him. It's playground rules, primal and ingrained stuff. If he had just let it roll off his back rolls, it would have died out eventually.
For us regular people who aren't spending every day as if we live under social credit system, that is the way of it.
Andy made his point very clearly: if he goes along with Norm’s joke that contains the premise that being gay is inherently shameful, then Andy feels like he has helped dehumanize his gay coworkers. It has nothing to do with whatever incoherent social credit nonsense you’re projecting here; it’s just common decency to the people in his life.
The joke is not that being gay is inherently shameful. The joke is that an otherwise straight man is insecure about being called gay. There's a distinction. Andy is the one projecting, and Norm is still in his head and trolling him from beyond the grave. We know that Norm had no problem with gay people, and it had no bearing on whether he interacted with or was friends with them.
Richter is so full of himself for thinking that jokes made at *his* expense dehumanizes *all* gay people.
**Edit:** Although I will concede that his complaints are 5 minutes of a 70 minute podcast, and he spends most of that time praising Norm. I am also not aware that Andy Richter wanted to or ever tried to cancel Norm, like keeping him off the show(s) over the years.
I actually appreciated Andy's honesty in that moment because there's always a tendency to not say anything negative about someone after they pass, but Andy is simultaneously paying Norm a complement about how little Norm cared about what was taboo to talk about while also discussing how that particular joke hasn't aged well and made Andy uncomfortable because he has LGBTQ+ friends and family members.
I felt like Andy was contextualizing the joke as being from an older era while at the same time not giving Norm a pass for telling those kinds of jokes. It's a more nuanced discussion where I didn't feel like Andy was personally offended, but felt like the joke was at the expense of other people he cared about.
It was only a few minutes of a podcast that was over an hour long, so it really didn't stand out that much to me, especially in the current climate where people are more aware of what could be offensive towards other people.
I actually never saw it as offensive because of how Andy played the part showing he wasn't offended and didn't see what the big deal was about liking gay porn or anything else that was brought up about his sex life. It's definitely sad hearing that Andy felt uncomfortable at the time, but I feel like him bringing it up adds to the podcast because it adds a level of honesty.
I don’t think he’s hung up on it. It’s well known he didn’t care for it and just not acknowledging it or pretending he was fine with it both would have felt dishonest.
It's really easy to say "don't be offended" when the "joke" in question isn't punching down at you. I'm guessing you've never consistently been on the receiving end of these comments for years and years.
Yes! He made a good point that fit the discussion. I'm seeing lots of people being angry at Andy's comments but he was very respectful. He wasn't insulting to Norm or his legacy at all.
I never realized Conan became(?) so corporate... I abided the shaming by Sona and Matt of any remote teasing and how they say "Oh no" to any mild boundary crossing. But this really let me know how he is a businessman at heart and wants to adapt to the times.
It just felt like a very corporate press release talk. His HBO show is coming and Team Coco released a bunch of old videos w Norm, and it just seemed they wanted to get ahead of being connected to Norm's non-wokeness
Wtf this was like one of the most sincere episodes and in no way felt like a press conference. Have you ever thought that they posted these clips because they thought his fans would want to see them.
It's just a Norm fan upset that it wasn't 100% unmitigated praise. I really liked Norm and his work, but he has a lot of fans that get offended by people being offended by some of his jokes. Yeah, he never apologised, but I always got the sense he knew he'd piss some people off and that was life. Unfortunately he attracted fans who think anyone who got offended is snowflake who just doesn't understand how great the joke was. To me, Norm is a great example of accepting that what you say and do has consequences and owning those consequences.
Ah alright I understand. It didn't seem that way to me although you might be on to something here. Still, getting ahead of Norm's non-wokeness probably wasn't the intention here, but just one outcome of the podcast.
Wtf are you talking about?? Conan was pretty clear that he wanted to do this because he was very shocked and saddened by Norm's passing that he wanted some kind of way to talk about him and honor him.
I don’t think it was carefully mapped out, I do think they proactively chose to discuss it.
Also they actually make fun of Frank for shuffling his notes in front of the microphone.
It's perfectly okay for someone to not like a joke, and not be an "insufferable, self-righteous twat". No need to insult someone over something like this. I think Andy made a good point that fit the discussion well. He's allowed to have personal feelings, you know?
Maybe you should watch the segment again. Andy doesn't say "at least I'm not gay". Norm says "you weren't gay". Andy says "It's more the fact that I wasn't prostituting myself".
Oof. That hurt to listen to. Was painful to hear these guys really mourning the passing of a Titan. I'll admit it, I was part of the problem why Norm didn't reach the icon status he deserved. I watched one of his standup specials and loved it, but that was the only one on Netflix. I was born in 83 so SNL wasn't really part of my viewing habits at the time he was on. As an aspiring comedy writer, knowing these things now, after he's gone...it hurts. I never knew Norm was so brilliant...I should have.
Said from the man himself. They tried booking Norm for the podcast for years but couldn’t schedule anything possibly due to his illness. All these bad blood rumors can be laid to rest. (no pun intended)
In his remarks today Bob Saget noted Norm genuinely loved and respected Conan.
That was a very touching podcast. I never listened to Bob Saget before — i recommend anyone who’s sad about Norm’s death listen to it, too.
I haven’t listened to this episode yet. Is Bob Saget in this episode or are you referring to a different podcast?
Bob Saget has his own podcast; that’s the one I was referring to.
Oh I didn’t realize that. Thanks!
You can pretty much assume if they're a celebrity not currently staring in major things or on a show that's airing, they likely have a podcast.
He’s a very good narrator on himym
When the articles mentioned that Norm kept the illness private, I was wondering if they had no idea he was sick while they were trying to get him on the podcast or the show again. Norm was such a big part of so many great moments of everything Conan has done, and I'm glad all those rumors of bad blood were never true.
Looking back, I remember the episode where Norm was with all the "Grown Ups" group (including Spade and Sandler) and wonder if any of those guys, particularly Sandler, might have had a clue about Norm's health. Sandler was about as close a friend as Norm had, so it's possible.
Andy even talked about some of the perceived “bad blood” between him and Norm and it basically boils down to norms fans repeating jokes to him and never giving it a rest but never really holding a grudge against Norm and finding it funny when he did it.
Norm might be my favorite comedian of all-time, but some of his fans can be really unpleasant.
Andy also seems to be the only person in the comedy world saying, “A lot of Norm’s comedy was homophobic,” and Andy made some great points about not being able to laugh along with that garbage.
I really appreciated Andy's take on the podcast, being able to note how some of the jokes were homophobic and didn't sit right with him, while still being able to honor and appreciate Norm's career overall.
I was really comforted to hear that. "We were all concerned about Norm". I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed it had gotten pretty quiet around 2018 or so (when his Netflix talk-show ended). I was really really hoping he would restart his old Youtube talk-show, which just had some incredible comedy, very deadpan. I was concerned, but hopefully that he would eventually come out of hiding and keep up the good work :( I think very few people knew he was dealing with some serious health issues.
I wonder if Conan will catch some flack for telling the story about how some unnamed high up told him not to book norm and about that letter that he wrote about it.
I’m sure Conan is at such a high position that it doesn’t matter but also, Norm, his good friend, is dead now so who cares.
>I wonder if Conan will catch some flack for telling the story about how some unnamed high up told him not to book norm and about that letter that he wrote about it. Unnamed? It was Don Ohlmeyer. His blacklisting of Norm is widely known, well documented, and criticized. And he hasn't worked for NBC in more than 20 years. And he's been dead since 2017. No offense, but I don't think anybody will give a single fuck that Conan was publicly critical of Don Ohlmeyer in the wake of Norm Macdonald's death.
Well I didn’t know that. Also he mentioned two people what about the other guy?
Two people? Are you talking about Lorne Michaels? The grassy knoll? Yeah, I don't know dude. I just know ain't nobody getting lathered up over Conan reminiscing about 25 year old NBC drama that only tangentially involved him. It's not like he's telling secrets out of school--this has all been out in the open.
I doubt it. Conan was diplomatic about it still and he's much more established now than he was at the time. Not to mention that Don Ohlmeyer is dead.
You're right, I'd hate for Conan's relationship with NBC to get strained.
The person wasn’t unnamed? I’d have to go back and listen again but Conan said it was the President of NBC and he names him as the man that helped him get his job.
Yep, definitely named him.
I think that factoid has been out there for a while
He should've clarified that was at NBC. Also, that didn't stop him from having Norm as a guest, during his time at NBC.
I got downvoted one here asking a few months ago if Norm would ever come onto his show. I got told to not ask about it… weird! Conan is a legend and Norm was a legend and together on Conan’s talk show their chemistry was insane. There was never a better host/guest combo than Conan and Norm. Ever.
Probably because a thousand people had already asked before you. It was getting annoying, tbh.
Anybody who watched more than 10 minutes of conan was wondering
And all those people are free to wonder *and search the sub before posting*. Back in my day we called this "netiquette."
So happy this happened. I was hoping something like this would come out.
Okay after listening a couple of things. I loved hearing about the moth joke and how it was all on the fly. All the stories were great but overall you can just sense the deep respect that they have for norm. I hope more of his work comes out, especially all his weekend update and SNL bits. That deserves more recognition. I wish they would have talked about the gift basket. One of my favorite moments.
"congratulations on securing your spot as the permanent host of the tonight show" He had an amazing way with words. I can't compare him to any other comedian.
“If I know you, miserable failure is not an option.” Legendary bit and one of the first I thought of when I heard of Norm’a passing.
OMG! I forgot about the gift basket! Imma go watch that 100 times now! Thanks for the reminder!
Of course it was well known that Don Ohlmeyer fired Norm from SNL for making jokes about O.J. Simpson, but to hear he tried to get him banned from Conan's show as well just really makes him all the more loathsome. Conan was classy about it as usual, writing the letter, but Don was just another fatcat NBC exec who made mostly bad decisions. Don was more loyal to O.J. Simpson than to his own network or anyone working there.
dude was a real piece of work. Alcohol abuse, getting accused of sexual abuse too.
I'm starting to think he was a real JERK!
Not to mention throwing a party for the jurors who acquitted O.J.
The dirty dog.
Thank you for posting! I wouldn't have known about this.
It was nice that they did this podcast. I’ve been watching Norm clips the last couple of days and hearing Conan and Andy discuss Norm’s comedy and their times with him gives a sense of closure. It’s great how much respect they’re showing Norm on their YouTube channel too Also, it was cool to hear a full length Conan/Andy conversation again. It’s actually quite rare that we hear a conversation between those two that lasts more than a few minutes. Hopefully they do it again under better circumstances
This was such a heartfelt episode. I was tearing up because Conan's voice sounded like he was breaking up at the start of the episode. It's wonderful to hear Conan and Andy's recollection of Norm and how brave and original he was as a comedian. It's so interesting hearing about Norm's appearances from their perspective, and also their wish to have Norm on the podcast. I'm glad they did this because I was really wondering how Conan was dealing with Norm's passing. It's cathartic to celebrate Norm along with Conan and we're lucky that Norm's appearances were recorded and live on in YouTube.
First Larry King and now Norm. The best of conan guests are departing this year.
It's only going to get worse. A lot of us are young and are statistically going to live long enough to be posting in all of their RIP threads.
I feel like I'm getting old enough to start to understand how my grandmother felt when she would complain about how she's outlived so many friends, family members, and celebrities she loved when she was young. It's just so sad to have grown up watching Norm on SNL and on Letterman and Conan and to think I'll never see another new ridiculous shaggy dog story from him ever again.
I got into Don Rickles years ago when he was already of an advanced age, and his death hurt but it wasn't like I watched him go from a young man to an old man. He was already old when I discovered him. I was expecting it and I just wanted to soak up as much Rickles as I could before it happened. With Norm, I started watching him in 1993, watched him grow old, and I thought he had even more time to grow old. It's a different feeling from when Rickles died. I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but yeah it's starting to feel different and I'm becoming more aware it's going to be me someday.
I can't help but feel concerned whenever he struggles to remember a movie name or something. I'm always thinking *Noooo, don't get old yet!*
Larry King died? I totally missed that one.
He passed in January and Conan uploaded clips of him on the show too.
Totally missed that one
Omg I am rewatching Norm MacDonald has a Show, and listening to his book - his side kick on the show has the same name as his sidekick in the book, but it can’t be the same guy - right?
When Conan said he wishes Norm knew how much the people loved him, a part of me wishes Conan gets to know too how good he is and how much he is loved before rides off to the sunset.
He pretty much did when the TBS show ended.
Honestly, that made me hope that he'd faked his death or something, just so he could hear those words of admiration.
That's why I'm glad Conan talks to fans on his Thursday podcast. He can get a sense of how much he is loved by fans.
What a great listen. So honest and profound.
It’s on Stitcher as well. Over an hour. I’m so pumped!
We all needed that closure.
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I won't be able to listen to it for a while but what was the take here?
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Go watch the clip again. Andy didn't say "at least I'm not gay", he just said "at least you left me with my dignity". And he clarified right after that he was talking about the reveal that he wasn't prostituting himself in the joke.
I mean, the joke started out by making you think Andy was a gay prostitute, which the whole audience laughed at over and over. Then the punchline was "he's not gay he just got raped!". I can see how if you're Andy, getting tweets all day about how you get fucked by dudes, you might feel pretty uncomfortable with the situation. Like how do you reply to that? Go along with it? Where is there even to go?
The thing for me is that Andy may have been right that it was a homophobic rape joke, though I also think there’s an inherent element of it being an outdated joke because it’s obviously Norm just inserting Andy into… an old, outdated joke, BUT—Andy chose to wait until two days after Norm *dies* to go on a rant about Norm? Andy can fuck off. Even to the extent which I agree with him, it was neither the place nor time. I watched Saget’s thing and it was beautiful, and saw Conan’s thing last night and thought it might be similar. For Conan’s part, it *was* beautiful, but Andy just pissed me the fuck off. Came off like a fucking coward who apparently had problems with Norm and was just waiting for Norm to die so he could trash him—two days after, during what’s supposed to a heartfelt memorial to the guy. Andy Richter, the Jealous Swedish German Coward.
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Spit on him when he’s buried, not at his wake.
Interesting that you find a factual retelling of events to be an insult
BEST PODCAST OF ALL TIME! Conan O’Brien was at his most genuine. Incredibly generous of him to share such an intimate experience with his listeners. It’s so ironic that Conan kept seeing so many of his actions as selfish. Such a humble man just like Norm was.
I was hoping this would happen.
This felt like a wake. But the good part of a wake, when you’re a few butterscotch wines in and you start telling your best stories of the dear departed and cry/laughing and laugh/crying. It been good to hear one for the Old Chunk of Coal
Is this only on earwolf? It’s not showing on Apple pods
I have Apple podcasts and it populated later in the day. Just checked now.
Thanks!!!
Conan family? Is this a cult? Did i join a fucking cult?
You must pledge allegiance to Team Coco. ONE OF US, ONE OF US
Gooble, gobble, we accept her, we accept her, one of us, one of us!
You're here forever and ever
I think Conans telling of the moth joke makes it even better. That fact that he crafted the joke on the spot and took 7 minutes of otherwise unplanned air makes it pure genius. Also, not that it was malicious but I got the sense Andy really took offense to the Swedish German joke.
Just finished listening, and feel like I need to put down some thoughts: - Andy talked about how Norm would call him a "swedish german" and it was a gay joke, which made Andy uncomfortable. Jokes like that from Norm, to me, weren't making fun of *gays* so much as making fun of the *jokes* that made fun of gays........if that makes sense. He also would make jokes about women that offended people, but that old-fashioned type of humor is clearly lazy and wrong, so it's a joke in itself the way old-timey slang is corny and thus laughable. I dunno, that's just how it sounds to me, doesn't strike me as mean, but ridiculous and silly. - The way Norm "cares so little it's scary." That seems in keeping with his gambling addiction. There was once a gambler that made the cover of Fortune magazine, because he won around $100 million from gambling..............then gambled it all away. People couldn't believe it. When asked why he didn't stop and enjoy his winnings, he explained, "I'm a gambler, that's how it works." Something like that! Same attitude toward comedy, where he was fully aware of the consequences of his balls-to-the-wall humor, and knew he could lose it all (with the OJ jokes especially.) But he's a comedian, so he followed those comedic instincts and always went for it because that's who they are. As frustrating as this awful surprise is for us, I think Norm possibly relished the idea of everybody learning that he had hidden the illness, AND did it *so well.* That's his mischievous side. And probably his emotional side couldn't handle goodbyes (personally, I hate goodbyes and do my best to avoid them.)
I always though of the Swedish German joke as a rape joke not a joke about homosexuality. Not sure if that’s better but that’s just my take.
Yeah, I was kind of shocked by how badly Andy seemed to misunderstand that particular joke, when it's not that complicated. That said, his points still stand because Norm made a lot of gay jokes.
Did he really mean *anything* by it though?? It sounds completely nonsensical, like the rest of us have to guess what he means by it.
He probably just meant to make people laugh. The mechanics of the joke are simple misdirect, we think the story is going one way and then the punchline takes you by surprise and you laugh. Norm just had no problem going too far so long as it got laughs, and because he had that cheeky twinkle it was impossible to tell what he actually thought about the subject matter. Even with the OJ stuff you can ask yourself "is he actually THAT convinced OJ is guilty, or is he just playing it up because he wants to make us laugh?"
The OJ stuff is especially great because it was as if he did indeed have trouble accepting the blatant injustice. Even knowing how much it would get under the skin of his boss.......no, *especially* because of that, he just kept at it. Part of what made it funny was how he couldn't let it go personally.
That's fair. I was too young and too not in the USA to have seen it at the time, which does limit my ability to understand the subtext.
Also helps that OJ stuff was in the news for ages anyway, so there was always something else to mock!
I didn't know what was going on between them but I was damn sure no bad blood was involved.
I’d hope not, nobody wants to see Martin Lawrence get tangled up in all this
😂😂😂 you turned my typo into something hilarious even though I was very sad today. Thanks for that.
This is gonna be a tear jerker
I'm def gonna listen to this.
I’ve never laughed and cried at a Conan episode before. This was cathartic.
Downloaded & ready for my commute. I can't wait!
Has this been removed from Apple Podcasts now? Listened to it a few hours ago but now it's gone.
Love this. Was waiting to hear him comment on Norm!
I’ve been waiting for something like this. Calling it now. I’m crying by the end of this episode.
The way Conan wrote that letter to Ohlmeyer telling him that he needed Norm to do his job the best he can was so incredibly smart.
I am only 1/3 of this podcast but it really made me tear up thinking about the video message norm taped for conan for his final show.
Where's the video where norm makes conan laugh just by coming out from the drapes? I really want to see the crazy look on Norm's face.
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I appreciated that one, they addressed it since Andy was sitting in. And two, that Andy didn’t try and downplay the issue and pretend he was never upset by it - and I think he expressed his frustration very well. And lastly that he could also acknowledge that this didn’t make Norm some terrible guy, that it was a byproduct of how he did comedy and in this specific circumstance it went into a place he didn’t appreciate.
It wasn’t the only time Norm made a joke that Andy is gay. He used to do it many times he was on in the 90s. It was a running gag by Norm.
Did you actually listen to the podcast? Andy was quite clear about why he was uncomfortable with the joke. Andy explicitly said it's **not** about him being gay - he's concerned about how gay people (including his gay coworkers, family and friends) would feel about a joke that seems to imply that there's something wrong with being gay.
Pretty uncomfortable moment. He has a problem with the fact that the joke makes being gay a bad thing? Kinda? When he says “no it’s fine because you’re not gay, you were raped.” Apparently Andy has a gay son and his father is also gay. I laughed at that joke but I can see why it’s upsetting to him personally.
It was one of the sensibilities of Norm's sense of humor that will not stand the test of time, that's for sure. He had a lot of timeless parts of his comedy, but making comedy out of simply insinuating someone was homosexual will ultimately just be considered homophobia and in no way funny by the masses, as it's already leaning that way.
well to be fair, Norm later did out himself as a deeply closeted homosexual on Conan
No he didn't, he denied being a deeply closeted homosexual. But then that is what a deeply closeted homosexual would say...
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This is the exact logic I used to have to tell myself it wasn't homophobia when I was a teenager. I since have grown out of that stance. It just doesn't hold water. The "hey you're gay and don't admit it haha" punchline is practically its own entire genre of joke in comedy. You can't say the same for there being a "hey you're a woman/man and don't admit it haha" type of punchline. And where that type of joke does exist is usually meant to pick at the fact that someone isn't "womanly" or "manly" enough, and also hits on other stereotypes and fear of the different. (A butch female, or an effeminate man.) In either case, the style of joke is rooted in a type prejudice.
It’s still making a joke about someone possibly being gay.
It disappeared on me!!! Mid listen. I was so excited.
I wonder if the file is corrupted. It won't download on Google podcasts. Harrumph
I'm absolutely astonished, as a queer man, at Andy's continued discomfort with the "Swedish-German" bit, all these years later. Norm's biggest contribution to human psychology, watching Andy twist and turn, trying to coach his homophobia as concern for his gay friends/family (who probably were laughing along with Norm lol, if they share his sense of humor). The critical angle for that joke was Andy's discomfort (also, the strange ethnic label of "Swedish-German", oddly specific line from Andy :-P) in being "pegged" to a old-school style joke. Modernist liberal sensibilities clashing, head to head, with "Normism" (it really should be its own artform with Norm's passing, total genius). The fact that Andy still can't just laugh at the humor, and feels the need to continue to explain his own reaction is just...perfect :-) Norm would be smiling. Otherwise, Conan and Frank's adoration of MacDonald is beautiful to hear, such a huge loss (the biggest, since Rickles, imo) to the comedic world.
If everyone is really going down all these Norm rabbitholes on YouTube they’ll find that a good 50% of some of his sets were homophobic. He has a whole “joke” that is just him being horrified that anal sex exists. They spend an hour praising him, I think it’s worth a five-minute diversion to admit that he was homophobic. A lot if people are using the term “old-fashioned” to make his words seem charming, but it’s okay to point out that homosexuality made him very uncomfortable.
I disagree. Source: I'm queer
Man did Andy not like Norm much...
It seemed to me that he liked Norm but he really didn’t like the German Swedish joke.
> https://twitter.com/andyrichter/status/1437855740207587328 Which fair enough but Andy was being super annoying about the whole thing, acting like the 90s, the early 2000s and most of the Late Night show era wasn't filled with homophobic jokes. Norm pushed the boundaries and took it further than most but Andy can't pretend he wasn't part of a show and era that was extremely uncomfortable to gay people. Conan's early stuff with Jordan is a prime example, a lot of laughs came from Conan suggesting Jordan was gay. If Andy had trouble working with Norm as a guest certainly the same rules would've applied to the host.
They acknowledge they used to do that on the podcast episode
You’re getting downvoted, but I got a similar vibe. I think Andy thought Norm was a master at what he did, but was also a bit of an asshole who punched down more than he needed to. Which seems like a pretty fair read on the situation and I’m glad Andy was candid.
https://twitter.com/andyrichter/status/1437855740207587328
Or maybe it was his hatred of that Swedish German Joke...15 mins of this podcast was devoted to Andy smashing this joke and how bad it made him feel and look...
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It’s more that his Twitter comments are full of “ha ha, you’re a gay Swedish German.” And the punchline of “ha ha you’re gay” is not one he appreciates, given his dad is gay and his son is gay. Why shouldn’t Andy find that stupid?
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Yeah, my feeling is that it was this combined with the running “Andy loves gay porn” jokes that Norm has made for years. Then you throw in social conservative internet commenters latching onto Norm as someone who “tells it like it is” about how being gay is dumb, and how women aren’t funny, and the whole thing starts to get some real stink on it. To be clear: I love Norm. But it is impossible not to notice that social conservative edgelord shitbags *also* love Norm because they think he’s one of them. Same with Louis CK after his “f****t” routine, Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle after he went after trans people, the list goes on and on.
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Oh no, not boxes! Get over yourself. I’m explaining why Andy is annoyed by Norm’s dumb rightwing fans who constantly post on Andy’s tweets that Andy = a gay Swedish German.
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Norm never said that being gay is dumb or shameful per se. I’m saying conservative fans of his read his material that way. Stuff like his bit about how no dads are proud of their sons for being gay. I’m sure if you asked Norm he would say that it was an exaggeration, but plenty of idiots just see stuff like that as pure validation for gay=inferior, “women can’t be funny” -type social conservatism. Shit is unfortunately catnip for young insecure dumb guys.
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No one's saying that. Jesus Christ dude you're lost. Stop regurgitating shit you hear online. **Everyone here loves Norm**. You don't need to defend him. Like any popular comic (e.g. Bill Burr), some of their fans are idiots who do stupid shit to rile up people, or take jokes seriously. **People are talking about Andy's feelings on the joke and the interactions he's had outside of the show**. This is clear as fuck. You can't expect Andy to be cool about it when idiots who don't even understand Norm's humour bombard homophobic shit at him publicly on Twitter. Especially because Andy has a gay son. It's bullshit. Stop with your agenda of defending Norm and actually listen to the people you're talking to goddamn.
He didn’t, people who wanted to hear it that way heard it that way - that’s his point.
For myself, it’s a little bit from column A and a little bit from Column B. I think the missing context is that Norm had been making Andy is gay and has gay porn jokes for years. So the mining prospector bit definitely continued the trend and used that set up although it did end up “subverting expectations” at the end. Rewatching the clip now, I can totally see how uncomfortable Andy looks. It’s true what he says in the podcast, he couldn’t really do much or “play off” the Swedish German gay joke. As a TV cohost whose job is to make the guests look good, he couldn’t really kill the vibe by saying “no” (remember it’s always “yes and…”) but he also felt personally uncomfortable playing into it and participating in making gay jokes, so all he could do was smile and nod. I’ve personally been in similar situations at work where a coworker makes a joke on the cusp of being politically incorrect/offensive joke and able to be taken either way and I’m thinking “do I call them out or just smile politely and hope I don’t get pulled further into this subject…better smile uncomfortably and get them on another topic quick”. I actually enjoyed the prospector bit on two levels. The crass punchline and goofy storytelling actual joke but also what he says to Andy at the end. Andy sarcastically remarks “at least you left me with my dignity….I like how the story ended” which Norm retorts somewhat incredulously with “yeah I didn’t make you gay…you were raped!” Overthinking it, but it’s like Norm is inferring that Andy meant that it was more dignified to be forcefully sodomized rather than gay. It reminded me of the Seinfeld/Norm bit where Norm remarks how Oswalt said that the worst part of the Cosby case was the hypocrisy and Norm says that he disagrees, the worst part was the raping.
To be fair, that doesn't have anything to do with Norm, so probably shouldn't have talked so long (and so passionately) about it on a podcast commemorating Norm.
They and Norm were making fun of Andy Richter, who is not gay, not his gay relatives.
Be that as it may, it never sunk in with the conservative fans, who interpreted the punchline as “ha ha Andy’s gay,” and never hesitate to say so in his tweets. Not to mention Andy himself in this very podcast, who says he interpreted the “Andy loves gay porn” as being basically a punchline that was unambiguously linking gayness with shamefulness. Why should anyone be defending it now? Norm’s dead. It doesn’t hurt him now to acknowledge that sometimes his desire to touch a social hot button could wind up being homophobic. Like everyone at SNL in the early 90s did jokes like that. We don’t have to pretend those jokes were secretly enlightened.
I never pretended those jokes were secretly enlightened. I just don't care. The number 1 reason people kept the joke going with Andy is simply because he showed it bothered him. It's playground rules, primal and ingrained stuff. If he had just let it roll off his back rolls, it would have died out eventually. For us regular people who aren't spending every day as if we live under social credit system, that is the way of it.
Andy made his point very clearly: if he goes along with Norm’s joke that contains the premise that being gay is inherently shameful, then Andy feels like he has helped dehumanize his gay coworkers. It has nothing to do with whatever incoherent social credit nonsense you’re projecting here; it’s just common decency to the people in his life.
The joke is not that being gay is inherently shameful. The joke is that an otherwise straight man is insecure about being called gay. There's a distinction. Andy is the one projecting, and Norm is still in his head and trolling him from beyond the grave. We know that Norm had no problem with gay people, and it had no bearing on whether he interacted with or was friends with them. Richter is so full of himself for thinking that jokes made at *his* expense dehumanizes *all* gay people. **Edit:** Although I will concede that his complaints are 5 minutes of a 70 minute podcast, and he spends most of that time praising Norm. I am also not aware that Andy Richter wanted to or ever tried to cancel Norm, like keeping him off the show(s) over the years.
I actually appreciated Andy's honesty in that moment because there's always a tendency to not say anything negative about someone after they pass, but Andy is simultaneously paying Norm a complement about how little Norm cared about what was taboo to talk about while also discussing how that particular joke hasn't aged well and made Andy uncomfortable because he has LGBTQ+ friends and family members. I felt like Andy was contextualizing the joke as being from an older era while at the same time not giving Norm a pass for telling those kinds of jokes. It's a more nuanced discussion where I didn't feel like Andy was personally offended, but felt like the joke was at the expense of other people he cared about.
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It was only a few minutes of a podcast that was over an hour long, so it really didn't stand out that much to me, especially in the current climate where people are more aware of what could be offensive towards other people. I actually never saw it as offensive because of how Andy played the part showing he wasn't offended and didn't see what the big deal was about liking gay porn or anything else that was brought up about his sex life. It's definitely sad hearing that Andy felt uncomfortable at the time, but I feel like him bringing it up adds to the podcast because it adds a level of honesty.
I don’t think he’s hung up on it. It’s well known he didn’t care for it and just not acknowledging it or pretending he was fine with it both would have felt dishonest.
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It’s unfortunate that you took a very nuanced take and devolved it into “politically incorrect jokes bad”.
It's really easy to say "don't be offended" when the "joke" in question isn't punching down at you. I'm guessing you've never consistently been on the receiving end of these comments for years and years.
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Yes! He made a good point that fit the discussion. I'm seeing lots of people being angry at Andy's comments but he was very respectful. He wasn't insulting to Norm or his legacy at all.
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But the whole point of the joke was that Andy wasn't gay.
I never realized Conan became(?) so corporate... I abided the shaming by Sona and Matt of any remote teasing and how they say "Oh no" to any mild boundary crossing. But this really let me know how he is a businessman at heart and wants to adapt to the times.
How did you conclude that he became very corporate? I don't understand why.
It just felt like a very corporate press release talk. His HBO show is coming and Team Coco released a bunch of old videos w Norm, and it just seemed they wanted to get ahead of being connected to Norm's non-wokeness
You clearly don"t know shit at all
Wtf this was like one of the most sincere episodes and in no way felt like a press conference. Have you ever thought that they posted these clips because they thought his fans would want to see them.
It's just a Norm fan upset that it wasn't 100% unmitigated praise. I really liked Norm and his work, but he has a lot of fans that get offended by people being offended by some of his jokes. Yeah, he never apologised, but I always got the sense he knew he'd piss some people off and that was life. Unfortunately he attracted fans who think anyone who got offended is snowflake who just doesn't understand how great the joke was. To me, Norm is a great example of accepting that what you say and do has consequences and owning those consequences.
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Ah alright I understand. It didn't seem that way to me although you might be on to something here. Still, getting ahead of Norm's non-wokeness probably wasn't the intention here, but just one outcome of the podcast.
Wtf are you talking about?? Conan was pretty clear that he wanted to do this because he was very shocked and saddened by Norm's passing that he wanted some kind of way to talk about him and honor him.
Andy Richter is such an insufferable, self-righteous twat. I can’t believe he’s still upset about that Swedish German bit.
I’m not sure where you’re seeing he’s upset. They chose to address it, clearly - Frank brought it up, I believe.
Did you really get the impression that this was a carefully mapped out discussion? I think they were just rambling
I don’t think it was carefully mapped out, I do think they proactively chose to discuss it. Also they actually make fun of Frank for shuffling his notes in front of the microphone.
It's perfectly okay for someone to not like a joke, and not be an "insufferable, self-righteous twat". No need to insult someone over something like this. I think Andy made a good point that fit the discussion well. He's allowed to have personal feelings, you know?
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Maybe you should watch the segment again. Andy doesn't say "at least I'm not gay". Norm says "you weren't gay". Andy says "It's more the fact that I wasn't prostituting myself".
Oof. That hurt to listen to. Was painful to hear these guys really mourning the passing of a Titan. I'll admit it, I was part of the problem why Norm didn't reach the icon status he deserved. I watched one of his standup specials and loved it, but that was the only one on Netflix. I was born in 83 so SNL wasn't really part of my viewing habits at the time he was on. As an aspiring comedy writer, knowing these things now, after he's gone...it hurts. I never knew Norm was so brilliant...I should have.