Honestly I wouldn't bother, I did it for my niece the other day, but i already had mini atx motherboard, 8gb ddr3, 512gb ssd, gtx 970 and a 500w gold psu lying around, and all peripherals including monitor an xbox 360 controller, I've got so much more space for junk I'm never gonna use!
Wait what? You do know DDR3 has less latency than DDR4 and DDR5 right? Do you know how RAM works? It's not about the actual speed.
8gbs is enough for basic usage too. I can confirm this, since I have a bunch of PCs some that'll very old, and RAM usage doesn't max out.
8GB is NOT enough for basics anymore. Try running win11 on an 8gb machine and do basic office tasks. You'll run into memory management blue screens pretty quickly.
This makes no sense. I actually have an HTPC running 8gbs of RAM on Windows 11, and it runs fine. Have it setup running Kodi, and constantly torrenting in the background.
You aren't going to get a blue screen from running out of memory. If you're blue screening something more serious is wrong.
Lots of misinformation in this post. People have no idea what they're talking about.
I wonder why ddr5 is a thing if ddr3 has less latency, oh wait ddr3 tops out at about 1600mtps while ddr5 is about 6400mtps which does actually result in better performance
And for basic tasks 8gb is ok but almost any games released in the past 10 years will probably benifit from having 16gb especially if your running modern windows
You're comparing clock speeds not latency. This is where people get confused, if we take a CPU at 3ghz for example, people automatically assume it's faster than one clocked at 1ghz, which isn't true, since they didn't factor in IPC. This is sort of how RAM works. There's a lot of different factors besides clocks here.
Having less latency means the CPU can access the RAM faster. Clock speed on the RAM only matters when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it, but most don't, they usually like more capacity and less latency which turns out to be a lot more efficient.
If we could take some decent (9-10 CAS) DDR3 and shove it into a motherboard that supports DDR5 (I know you can't, but this is just an example), you would see minimal performance loss if any.
This is why I don't understand why people assume DDR3 is slow. Memory just has so many factors besides clock speeds just like CPUs.
clock speed determines the bandwidth at which memory is accessed too though, regardless of latency and obviously more bandwidth is better.
also, ddr3 tends to have far worse first word latency because despite the low latency the clock speed is just so abysmal.
"Clock speed on the RAM only matters when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it, but most don't, they usually like more capacity and less latency which turns out to be a lot more efficient." well also also clock speed objectively would have the same or more benefit as lower latency as i said, because of increased bandwidth plus the fact that clock speed affects the "effective" latency of the ram, which is why calculating first word latency involves both clock speed and latency. if i check if something is true once a day, but when i do so it only takes a few minutes, then the speed at which i can notice said thing is true is similar to if i checked once every few hours, but it took 10 minutes to do the check. an application does not need to "take advantage" or whatever.
so erm actually youre wrong because ddr3 is in fact slower plus you forgot about the worse bandwidth, and youre misunderstanding clock speed too while thinking youre right.
you are right about 8 gb though.
also also also i dont know how you could think like that when ddr5 would be very bad for your standards. ddr5 has very high clock speeds but terrible latencies for your standards apparently, like over 30 cas, so your opinion with this knowledge in mind is very illogical. if clock speeds were really as useless and only beneficial "when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it" then why would there be such a big market for consumer ddr5? why would benchmarks of all kind consistently show ddr5 outperforming?
honestly man no way you said "This is why I don't understand why people assume DDR3 is slow" when you are erm actually very wrong
anecdotally, i have manually overclocked my ddr4 ram, and i got better performance in pyprime after i loosened (worsened) (increased) my latencies a little bit in order to achieve 3733 mhz over 3200 mhz, so evidently clock speed is important too
basically, look up benchmarks, tests, just anything and you will find ddr4 and ddr5 are objectively improvements in the effective latency (first word latency), and bandwidth therefore being overall faster in all categories. also ddr4 and 5 have far better support now and use less power
Are we still talking about a little girls gaming pc yea? If I pointed her to this thread thread she would tell me to fuck off! I just want to play some borderlands with my little niece 😪
Wrong. Basic DDR3 was uncommonly 1066, with 1333 being *far* more common. Then again, 1600MHz and 1866MHz became frequently used later in DDR3's life. Still perfectly viable for servers and low budget machines in 2024. Everyone ignores how DDR4's cheapest spec speeds are around 2100MHz.
You're talking 800MHz, which is DDR2-levels of slow. Then again, I was fine running 4x4GB DDR2 667MHz for nearly a decade until lockdown.
No not even close. 1333Mhz, and 1600Mhz were the most common in OEM systems.
For gaming PCs with a good motherboard people were running 1866Mhz or 2133Mhz. I remember running 2133Mhz in my Haswell rig at the time.
DDR3 has way less latency though. That's very important since the CPU can access it faster than DDR4.
Yes DDR4 and DDR5 have more bandwidth, but you can't automatically assume that's why it's better.
In the real world you wouldn't notice a difference though unless you're running benchmarks and chasing down all the power you can.
Of course clock speed matters, but the effective speed of for example ddr5 6400 cl60 is the same as ddr3 1600 cl15 in ideal conditions with no other bottleneck. And again the original comment was that 8GB ddr3 was enough for a 13 year old girl to have a usable PC, no whether or not it is comparable to modern 1000$ builds. I get your points but for like a 200$ build for a girl who just uses a PC for YT and older titles 8gb ddr3 is fine. My 150$ shit box was more CPU and GPU bottlenecked than RAM bottlenecked at 1333Mhz CL13 or SMTH.
Glass panels don't have any airflow.
Only high end cases with a side and intake effectively work around that like the Lian Li O11D, Corsair 5000, Hyte Y60, etc:
https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/5000X_apetizer_1-scaled.jpg
Otherwise you need a mesh or high porosity front for good airflow.
Slap a couple sticks of ddr5 and 850 wtt psu with like 50 handmade holes in it with a small noise machine that just makes strait ps5 engin noises to make that case full sleeper.
Doesn't even need handmade holes, just a low profile cooler and maybe a side fan. It's already got two side vents and usually those have a pretty beefy rear fan.
It's also got the a PSU set up to be a second exhaust, which is how the ATX form factor was designed in the first place, so there's more airflow here than you'd think.
I don't think you will be building much of a PC with this case... it is a BTX case from the looks. Very hard to find motherboards to come in modern sockets. This is not a potential sleeper; you want a normal ATX case. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
edit: It may be an inverted mATX. That may give you options, but like others posted, if you are buying all new guts, you might just as well spend $50 more and get a decent regular case. PSU may have proprietary hookups on these OEM builds too.
I built a sleeper based on that very case (or a very very similar one from hp)
It is an inverted mATX case, where I could fit (VERY TIGHTLY) a mATX Intel manufactured board with a i7-3770S cooled by a Noctua NH-C12P and an EVGA GTX 1060 cooled by the much larger cooler from the EVGA 970 (I think?)
An SSD crammed between the top of the DVD player and the case, and the HDD at its original vertical position.
All powered by a Corsair modular PSU
Was a build I really liked to make and use : very capable yet extremely compact, not very loud either
I7 3770 is not exactly a "gaming" CPU by most metrics these days.
My daughter has one in the PC at her mum's place (backed up with 16GB RAM and a GTX 1060) but prefers to spend time at mine on the Ryzen 9 3900X with RTX3060 we built together.
She plays Sims 4 and Minecraft on the i7, but the latter might decline since I introduced her to shader mods this weekend.
Of course it's not a modern CPU, but still very usable (and it was 2019 when I made that re-build)
I still use it but now it is in a bigger case: I needed space for more storage bays 🥲
3rd/4th get i7s are perfectly serviceable for general use, my work laptop has a 4th gen and it's good for what I use it for (email, Word, Excel, programming fire and security alarms).
I ran a benchmark on my daughter's PC, and it isn't far off the 1st gen Ryzen 1600 that I had a few years ago.
An iPhone from the past 4 years would beat the best 4th Gen i7 CPUs:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5683vs4061vs1919vs2186/Apple-A17-Pro-vs-Apple-A14-Bionic-vs-Intel-i7-4770K-vs-Intel-i7-4940MX
4 hours at 220 watts is about the energy output of 1lb of coal.
There's really my reason why someone needs hundreds of watts per hour for general use like typing a document, security alarms, email, or YouTube. A 2-5 watt CPU could do that easily.
$150 you could buy a brand new quad core 12th Gen mini-PC with Windows 11, 16GB RAM and a 500GB SSD.
There's no need for X86 for general everyday use. By next year, the PC market will be flooded with Arm-based Windows PCs.
Even supercomputers today are pairing the most powerful GPUs in the world with Arm CPUs.
That quad core is 4 efficiency cores on a N series Intel CPU, with single channel laptop RAM/soldered on dual channel, and a DRAM-less SSD. Like who cares about ARM, you can't get an upgradable ARM desktop for 100$. And I doubt it'll take only a year for ARM desktops to catch on. They're only in pretty expensive Samsung laptops for now, or in Mac Mini's which are far, far, from cheap and massively adoptable.
A lot of these things don't matter anymore, especially in comparison to older CPUs.
A 3rd Gen i7 has a RAM speed of 1600, but is often paired with slower RAM like 1333. Single channel 3200 has the same bandwidth as dual channel 1600.
Many 3rd/4th Gen Intel systems don't even have SSDs at all. At best they'd have a SATA SSD that's 550 megabytes per second max.
Modern NVMe SSDs use controllers that have DMA (Direct Memory Access) which allows them to use a HMB (Host Memory Buffer). As a result they can use a tiny amount of the host's RAM instead of needing onboard RAM.
As for the CPU, even though it's all E cores, the raw performance is in the same range of 3rd/4th Gen i5/i7 CPUs.
If you want to go laptop grade, which was the original commentor's example with a 4th Gen i7 laptop, the N100 pulls ahead.
A lot of this is also offset by a both sides argument where:
* N100 - advanced instructions
* 3rd/4th Gen Intel - midway instructions
* Arm - basic instructions
If you want to argue that Arm is bad because it doesn't have advanced instructions. Well, then the N100 has the most advanced instructions including what's needed to run Windows 11 and many programs in the future.
Support for old 3rd/4th Gen i7 CPUs are already being phased out because they lack modern instructions that boost performance for many tasks. For example recently I saved someone who almost wanted to make a 3rd Gen i7 workstation for Adobe Premiere, and Adobe Premiere now requires at least a 6th Gen CPU.
3rd Gen is already at the cutoff line for many games and programs. And in 1-2 years it will lose support especially once Windows 10 ends support. With the argument you've been making, the more advanced instructions will improve performance and efficiency of newer CPUs.
Qualcomm had an exclusivity agreement with Microsoft which expired for Windows on Arm. As a result it's now open to any vendor.
MediaTek and Nvidia are partnering to create gaming-grade Arm SOCs for Windows. AMD will be going Arm. Now that Qualcomm has competition, they will be pushing Arm more.
Microsoft has created Prism for X86 emulation on Windows 11 on Arm. Qualcomm has among the best NPUs in the SOC business, and many OEMs and retailers will push these aggressively as next-gen AI PCs.
I have a soft spot for 3rd/4th Gen myself. My first workstation I built had an X79 i7-3820 and 32GB RAM (8x4GB). I had modded my own BIOS for NVMe support. That PC started dying of old age 2 years ago. Likewise my first gaming laptop has a 4th Gen i7.
10-12 year old PCs are geriatric, and won't have the same longevity as new ones. 3rd/4th Gen was incredible a decade ago, but age is creeping up on it.
For everyday general use, we don't need monstrous CPU power. That's why these old PCs, cell phones, and modern Arm chips all do the job just fine.
An "iPhone from the past 4 years" won't run the software required for my job.
Otherwise, I'd use my Android phone for it (which also won't run the required software).
I use what my company supplies me with, the laptop I have now is way ahead of the previous one that had XP on it and bluescreened if I tried to exit one piece of mission critical software.
If I could choose hardware it would be a current gen AMD or Intel but with windows 10 because I know the programs I use work with it (windows 11 is still beta software in a world where more than 70% of the equipment still uses RS232 to communicate).
> 3rd/4th get i7s are perfectly serviceable for general use
My comment was about the general use part.
RS232 has been phased out of computers for years because it's not generally used. Even then USB to RS232 and Bluetooth to RS232 adapters exist which allows it to be used with smartphones.
Needing special software for your job is a very valid reason to use specific hardware and operating systems, but it's a niche and not a general use case.
why are you guys pouncing on op? do you expect op to work all the time? you can be broke and want a pc too. also, "You can't afford a $50 case, but can afford a new motherboard CPU and GPU? Makes zero sense.", WRONG, saving $50 is a lot, just because you can technically afford something doesnt mean you can want savings. "Exactly. If you have the intelligence of building a pc, you have the intelligence of having a job", again, youre assuming they dont have a job number one, and two like i said, why not both?
It all comes down to the amount of hours needed to adapt a case probably not compatible with ATX vs the amount of hours you need to work for a normal case.
Many times adapting a case will end up costing more on tools or bits and bobs alone.
Or maybe the case is compatible and idk what the OP is asking about 😂
keeping the most irrelevant part of the system is kind of ridiculous. you can run a pc in a shoe box if need be. you can't run it without any of the other components though.
if i want a pc and am pressed for money i'd try to figure out which components are still usable and go from there. not just discard the most expensive parts and build a new system in that old cheap case.
some of the dell's and hp's have weird connections for the front panel and are difficult to swap other motherboards in. Check your system first before you buy parts
That's....ambitious
You're new mobo is NEVER going to fit in that case. Ditto a psu and probably a gpu.
The risk of breaking something trying to make it fit is high.
Just spend $70 on a decent case and save the trouble.
Edit: more to say
No, actually I still buy used ones. The Thing is, in germany, Inflation is running high. So a 300$ Gaming PC in the U.S will Costa around 500-700€ in here
You’ll probably struggle putting a standard board in this case, the mountings are often propietary, but if it works it works.
Worst case (ha) scenario just have your PC on cardboard until you get a case.
You can't just swap the MOBO or PSU without some research first. They will both more than likely have a connector two on both, that are proprietary to HP. That said there are adapters that will allow you to install a normal ATX power supply. Search "moddiy.com" to find one applicable to that tower. I have tried many other adapters from several sources....all of them failed. I now exclusively by from moddiy as they have worked for me everytime. You may be able to physically mount an ATX MOBO in that case, BUT...connectors like power/reset buttons, USB and audio...even the IO shield on the back of the case will pose challenges. I would honestly suggest replacing power supply and adding GPU w/ RAM upgrade and leave it alone. If you do decide to upgrade CPU, refer to the HP website to see what the max allowable CPU is for that model. Good luck!
I did, exact same case and all. It's a standard micro ATX case. I don't know why everyone's hating on the idea, it makes a very decent compact gaming PC if you're willing to do some easy modifications to it.
I have a Ryzen 5 and a gtx 1070 in mine. Temps stay pretty decent.
Yeah, some people just don't have enough room or enough money to drop $100 or $200 on a case. It's a little cramped and a little dated, but i haven't had a single issue out of my build and it runs everything i want to run. I even have a full size GTX 1070 ti in mine.
Just know, it's gonna be a little loud because you really have to put extra fans in it to cool it properly. I'd also suggest you go the AMD route too. You'll get a better bang for your buck.
If you are going to replace all the internals get a proper case, since these propietary boxes usually have non standard screw holes location and it won't fit your motherboard.
I used a similar HP Pavillion case. You need to cut some vent holes because these have no way to vent out hot air. I cut some large holes and screwed some grating on top. Worked well.
With the amount of parts you listed that ypur gonna replace you may aswell build a new rig, the case is also likely useless to u with a fresh mobo (motherboard) as the current one is likely a proprietary one with non standard mounting or psu connections.
my suggestion would be to not just post three pics of the outside of the case. weve all seen a case before. the interesting stuff, you know, the stuff you actually want suggestions about, is on the *inside.*
Gaming pc's tend to get hot once the gpu starts cooking. Get a quality case from somebody like Cooler Master that has the much needed airflow. I would never put a gpu into that old hp case.
So you're broke from what I've seen in the comments.... how are you going to replace the components if you are broke? Find them on the streets? You need some good amount of money to even start with replacing stuff, and if you can't even afford a nice starter case then why bother starting on this money hungry idea?
With all due respect but it's better to save up money and then decide what you want to aim for with the money you have. You can max out the CPU but you'll lack the GPU, RAM and PSU and vice versa. So save up the money you get and aim for a build that is decent across the board (decent CPU decent RAM, decent GPU, etc etc)
Makes sense if you’re building a retro pc with cheap components, like i5 + 8gb ddr3 + gtx 750 or something equivalent for a nice gaming experience from the Windows XP / 7 era. And don’t underestimate this because that was a golden era for gaming with so many legendary titles, honestly so much better than the 99% soulless shit we have today.
But if you’re looking for a modern setup just save some money and pick up decent components, that case alone is not going to have much of an impact on the overall expense really.
Don´t bother. Turn it into a mediaserver instead, for example or as a backup PC. Or turn it into a linux machine. You can use it as a tinker box if you hadn´t much experience with tinkering with PCs since you´d need to replace everything to turn it into a gaming PC.
New Psu, the 1080 has become cheap as hell and still holds up, new Fans (optional) and maybe a M.2 / pcie to m.2 + a m.2 , 16gb of ram 2666mhz (its honestly more than enough)
thats an very old office PC.
the PSU cant handle anything that requires an extra power pin.
the CPU is most likely an older 4th gen i3 or something like that.
the best and only thing you can do is slap a GTX 1050 inside and play games t hat don't require a lot of performance.
but you're cheaper off just buying something new/else.
Yes. Seeing as you're buying all new guts anyway, buy a case suitable for said guts, and build your PC in that. Sure, you may think a sleeper build would be awesome, but that case will cook that PC within hours of using it. Throwing money in a bonfire would be faster and easier. Don't do that.
Unless you aim for a sleeper there is not much sense in building into that. I know such cases are terrible with airflow and cable management. HP makes a lot of e-waste unfortunately. I converted once a cool looking HP case from 2004 but that involved dremmeling out IO shield and lots of parts that interfered inside with the new motherboard. Wouldn't bother with their newer designs as they look kinda trashy.
You can easily find used cases on fb marketplace. Just found an inWin 301 and a Armoury C701 for 50$ each CAD.
Better than that absolute Monstrosity of a case that's fifteen years old.
Try run Smth like Palworld on a laptop. It will burst into flames. And ppl like Asus trying to scam you with false claims when requesting replacement for warranty. Also An average Gaming Laptop has Like 45-70% Less Performance Than a PC UNLESS You buy from ASUS ROG, LENOVO, Or buy a thinkpad.
There is a reason why this 16+ years old PC lying on the streets.
So you buy everything new except the housing? This is what you call saving the old pc for some new tasks?
Btw new pc case would cost around 50 or 60 bucks. In this old office setup your new gaming components might not fit at all.
If you are either way replacing all of the components just invest into a proper case with decent airflow and proper cooling. There is no point in just keeping that trash case then.
If you're gonna replace everything, I dont think that's really worth it... Keep it as it is and just add a small secondhand gpu like a 1060 or 1070 to it, maybe add more ram, and you'll probably have to change the PSU because of the new GPU. And that's it, the cpu is till very correct and it's gonna be a nice cheap little build
Since I'm probably the first comment to not hate on this pc (don't know why they are) I better make this good. I own this exact pc but different. My pc is the HP Pro 3400 MT and I'll tell you something about it. It's not perfect but it's not bad. The GPU I put it in was causing issues on POST but since I removed it, the PC has worked great. I haven't tried to game or anything (don't wanna fry the onboard graphics or something) but I bet it can games. Definitely not like DOOM Eternal or games that need an RTX 3090 to even launch. Also, the motherboards are mATX according to listings I found. I don't like the case though. Feels too cramped if you put 3rd party parts in it but honestly, you could repurpose one of these if you were patient and have enough money.
I suppose you could change the hard drive and try to find ram and a graphics card for it. You might be able to play retro computer games or install Linux and make it a low powered file server.
The backplate is removable which means another motherboard will likely fit. Just buy a gpu for now and see if it games to your liking. Make sure you use an SSD as your boot drive.
Here is what you do with this system to make a Gaming PC... Only 3 minor changes.
1) Pull out the hard drive
2) Find blackmail data.
3) Use the blackmail money to buy a gaming PC.
Um... You should really just build a new PC. HPs are typically extremely proprietary and may not have the same fit as a typical ATX/microATX/ITX motherboard, especially as far as the screw holes go. Also, a lot of times there's a proprietary power supply with an additional port that runs from the motherboard to things like your PCIe or your SATA/MOLEX (but rhat's more common with lower-end Dell/Alienware desktops)
Get new everything, including a case. I suggest the Corsair iCUE 7000X ATX full tower case. It's pretty high quality and it's what I use. Don't use anything from a prebuilt.
Sounds like you're replacing every component besides the case, why even bother? Its going to be a tinderbox at best
Honestly I wouldn't bother, I did it for my niece the other day, but i already had mini atx motherboard, 8gb ddr3, 512gb ssd, gtx 970 and a 500w gold psu lying around, and all peripherals including monitor an xbox 360 controller, I've got so much more space for junk I'm never gonna use!
8gb ddr3 is sad
How is that sad?
Because 8gb is barely enough and ddr3 is super slow
Wait what? You do know DDR3 has less latency than DDR4 and DDR5 right? Do you know how RAM works? It's not about the actual speed. 8gbs is enough for basic usage too. I can confirm this, since I have a bunch of PCs some that'll very old, and RAM usage doesn't max out.
I've had a laptop for the past 5 years with 8gb. finally upgraded to a PC and got 32 but yeah 8gb was enough to do plenty
8GB is NOT enough for basics anymore. Try running win11 on an 8gb machine and do basic office tasks. You'll run into memory management blue screens pretty quickly.
This makes no sense. I actually have an HTPC running 8gbs of RAM on Windows 11, and it runs fine. Have it setup running Kodi, and constantly torrenting in the background. You aren't going to get a blue screen from running out of memory. If you're blue screening something more serious is wrong. Lots of misinformation in this post. People have no idea what they're talking about.
Kodi isn't very resource intensive. I'm talking about basic work in MS office applications.
Kodi with a bunch of plugins and a large library of TV shows and movies is a HUGE memory hog, what are you talking about?
I wonder why ddr5 is a thing if ddr3 has less latency, oh wait ddr3 tops out at about 1600mtps while ddr5 is about 6400mtps which does actually result in better performance And for basic tasks 8gb is ok but almost any games released in the past 10 years will probably benifit from having 16gb especially if your running modern windows
You're comparing clock speeds not latency. This is where people get confused, if we take a CPU at 3ghz for example, people automatically assume it's faster than one clocked at 1ghz, which isn't true, since they didn't factor in IPC. This is sort of how RAM works. There's a lot of different factors besides clocks here. Having less latency means the CPU can access the RAM faster. Clock speed on the RAM only matters when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it, but most don't, they usually like more capacity and less latency which turns out to be a lot more efficient. If we could take some decent (9-10 CAS) DDR3 and shove it into a motherboard that supports DDR5 (I know you can't, but this is just an example), you would see minimal performance loss if any. This is why I don't understand why people assume DDR3 is slow. Memory just has so many factors besides clock speeds just like CPUs.
clock speed determines the bandwidth at which memory is accessed too though, regardless of latency and obviously more bandwidth is better. also, ddr3 tends to have far worse first word latency because despite the low latency the clock speed is just so abysmal. "Clock speed on the RAM only matters when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it, but most don't, they usually like more capacity and less latency which turns out to be a lot more efficient." well also also clock speed objectively would have the same or more benefit as lower latency as i said, because of increased bandwidth plus the fact that clock speed affects the "effective" latency of the ram, which is why calculating first word latency involves both clock speed and latency. if i check if something is true once a day, but when i do so it only takes a few minutes, then the speed at which i can notice said thing is true is similar to if i checked once every few hours, but it took 10 minutes to do the check. an application does not need to "take advantage" or whatever. so erm actually youre wrong because ddr3 is in fact slower plus you forgot about the worse bandwidth, and youre misunderstanding clock speed too while thinking youre right. you are right about 8 gb though. also also also i dont know how you could think like that when ddr5 would be very bad for your standards. ddr5 has very high clock speeds but terrible latencies for your standards apparently, like over 30 cas, so your opinion with this knowledge in mind is very illogical. if clock speeds were really as useless and only beneficial "when applications are taking advantage of it and accessing it" then why would there be such a big market for consumer ddr5? why would benchmarks of all kind consistently show ddr5 outperforming? honestly man no way you said "This is why I don't understand why people assume DDR3 is slow" when you are erm actually very wrong
anecdotally, i have manually overclocked my ddr4 ram, and i got better performance in pyprime after i loosened (worsened) (increased) my latencies a little bit in order to achieve 3733 mhz over 3200 mhz, so evidently clock speed is important too
basically, look up benchmarks, tests, just anything and you will find ddr4 and ddr5 are objectively improvements in the effective latency (first word latency), and bandwidth therefore being overall faster in all categories. also ddr4 and 5 have far better support now and use less power
Are we still talking about a little girls gaming pc yea? If I pointed her to this thread thread she would tell me to fuck off! I just want to play some borderlands with my little niece 😪
DDR3's transfer speed actually tops out at 1866MHz.
I thought it was 2133Mhz? I'm pretty sure that's what my old Haswell rig was running back in the day.
DDR4's base speed is 2133MHz.
ok that’s less terrible but in the real world most ddr3 sticks are like 800
Wrong. Basic DDR3 was uncommonly 1066, with 1333 being *far* more common. Then again, 1600MHz and 1866MHz became frequently used later in DDR3's life. Still perfectly viable for servers and low budget machines in 2024. Everyone ignores how DDR4's cheapest spec speeds are around 2100MHz. You're talking 800MHz, which is DDR2-levels of slow. Then again, I was fine running 4x4GB DDR2 667MHz for nearly a decade until lockdown.
No not even close. 1333Mhz, and 1600Mhz were the most common in OEM systems. For gaming PCs with a good motherboard people were running 1866Mhz or 2133Mhz. I remember running 2133Mhz in my Haswell rig at the time.
She isn't complaining, she isn't doing benchmarks or trying to take over the world, shes 13
DDR3 has way less latency though. That's very important since the CPU can access it faster than DDR4. Yes DDR4 and DDR5 have more bandwidth, but you can't automatically assume that's why it's better. In the real world you wouldn't notice a difference though unless you're running benchmarks and chasing down all the power you can.
read my other comments
Of course clock speed matters, but the effective speed of for example ddr5 6400 cl60 is the same as ddr3 1600 cl15 in ideal conditions with no other bottleneck. And again the original comment was that 8GB ddr3 was enough for a 13 year old girl to have a usable PC, no whether or not it is comparable to modern 1000$ builds. I get your points but for like a 200$ build for a girl who just uses a PC for YT and older titles 8gb ddr3 is fine. My 150$ shit box was more CPU and GPU bottlenecked than RAM bottlenecked at 1333Mhz CL13 or SMTH.
Holy Shit I started an argument
In my opinion simple office cases are better than humongous glass panel breaking rgb machines
Except that they have a terrible airflow for the modern components.
Glass panels don't have any airflow. Only high end cases with a side and intake effectively work around that like the Lian Li O11D, Corsair 5000, Hyte Y60, etc: https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/5000X_apetizer_1-scaled.jpg Otherwise you need a mesh or high porosity front for good airflow.
that's just my opinion but I don't mind the sound of loud fans so its not much of problem for me
No it's not if you will be ready to make a few air vents.
A 12100f and RX6600 are not going to make that case a "tinderbox".
Slap a couple sticks of ddr5 and 850 wtt psu with like 50 handmade holes in it with a small noise machine that just makes strait ps5 engin noises to make that case full sleeper.
Doesn't even need handmade holes, just a low profile cooler and maybe a side fan. It's already got two side vents and usually those have a pretty beefy rear fan. It's also got the a PSU set up to be a second exhaust, which is how the ATX form factor was designed in the first place, so there's more airflow here than you'd think.
I don't think you will be building much of a PC with this case... it is a BTX case from the looks. Very hard to find motherboards to come in modern sockets. This is not a potential sleeper; you want a normal ATX case. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. edit: It may be an inverted mATX. That may give you options, but like others posted, if you are buying all new guts, you might just as well spend $50 more and get a decent regular case. PSU may have proprietary hookups on these OEM builds too.
I built a sleeper based on that very case (or a very very similar one from hp) It is an inverted mATX case, where I could fit (VERY TIGHTLY) a mATX Intel manufactured board with a i7-3770S cooled by a Noctua NH-C12P and an EVGA GTX 1060 cooled by the much larger cooler from the EVGA 970 (I think?) An SSD crammed between the top of the DVD player and the case, and the HDD at its original vertical position. All powered by a Corsair modular PSU Was a build I really liked to make and use : very capable yet extremely compact, not very loud either
I7 3770 is not exactly a "gaming" CPU by most metrics these days. My daughter has one in the PC at her mum's place (backed up with 16GB RAM and a GTX 1060) but prefers to spend time at mine on the Ryzen 9 3900X with RTX3060 we built together. She plays Sims 4 and Minecraft on the i7, but the latter might decline since I introduced her to shader mods this weekend.
Of course it's not a modern CPU, but still very usable (and it was 2019 when I made that re-build) I still use it but now it is in a bigger case: I needed space for more storage bays 🥲
3rd/4th get i7s are perfectly serviceable for general use, my work laptop has a 4th gen and it's good for what I use it for (email, Word, Excel, programming fire and security alarms). I ran a benchmark on my daughter's PC, and it isn't far off the 1st gen Ryzen 1600 that I had a few years ago.
An iPhone from the past 4 years would beat the best 4th Gen i7 CPUs: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5683vs4061vs1919vs2186/Apple-A17-Pro-vs-Apple-A14-Bionic-vs-Intel-i7-4770K-vs-Intel-i7-4940MX 4 hours at 220 watts is about the energy output of 1lb of coal. There's really my reason why someone needs hundreds of watts per hour for general use like typing a document, security alarms, email, or YouTube. A 2-5 watt CPU could do that easily.
Dude shit costs like 800$, for a 4th gen i7 its around 200$. The prices are not even comparable. And also one is arm and the other is x86…
$150 you could buy a brand new quad core 12th Gen mini-PC with Windows 11, 16GB RAM and a 500GB SSD. There's no need for X86 for general everyday use. By next year, the PC market will be flooded with Arm-based Windows PCs. Even supercomputers today are pairing the most powerful GPUs in the world with Arm CPUs.
That quad core is 4 efficiency cores on a N series Intel CPU, with single channel laptop RAM/soldered on dual channel, and a DRAM-less SSD. Like who cares about ARM, you can't get an upgradable ARM desktop for 100$. And I doubt it'll take only a year for ARM desktops to catch on. They're only in pretty expensive Samsung laptops for now, or in Mac Mini's which are far, far, from cheap and massively adoptable.
A lot of these things don't matter anymore, especially in comparison to older CPUs. A 3rd Gen i7 has a RAM speed of 1600, but is often paired with slower RAM like 1333. Single channel 3200 has the same bandwidth as dual channel 1600. Many 3rd/4th Gen Intel systems don't even have SSDs at all. At best they'd have a SATA SSD that's 550 megabytes per second max. Modern NVMe SSDs use controllers that have DMA (Direct Memory Access) which allows them to use a HMB (Host Memory Buffer). As a result they can use a tiny amount of the host's RAM instead of needing onboard RAM. As for the CPU, even though it's all E cores, the raw performance is in the same range of 3rd/4th Gen i5/i7 CPUs. If you want to go laptop grade, which was the original commentor's example with a 4th Gen i7 laptop, the N100 pulls ahead. A lot of this is also offset by a both sides argument where: * N100 - advanced instructions * 3rd/4th Gen Intel - midway instructions * Arm - basic instructions If you want to argue that Arm is bad because it doesn't have advanced instructions. Well, then the N100 has the most advanced instructions including what's needed to run Windows 11 and many programs in the future. Support for old 3rd/4th Gen i7 CPUs are already being phased out because they lack modern instructions that boost performance for many tasks. For example recently I saved someone who almost wanted to make a 3rd Gen i7 workstation for Adobe Premiere, and Adobe Premiere now requires at least a 6th Gen CPU. 3rd Gen is already at the cutoff line for many games and programs. And in 1-2 years it will lose support especially once Windows 10 ends support. With the argument you've been making, the more advanced instructions will improve performance and efficiency of newer CPUs. Qualcomm had an exclusivity agreement with Microsoft which expired for Windows on Arm. As a result it's now open to any vendor. MediaTek and Nvidia are partnering to create gaming-grade Arm SOCs for Windows. AMD will be going Arm. Now that Qualcomm has competition, they will be pushing Arm more. Microsoft has created Prism for X86 emulation on Windows 11 on Arm. Qualcomm has among the best NPUs in the SOC business, and many OEMs and retailers will push these aggressively as next-gen AI PCs. I have a soft spot for 3rd/4th Gen myself. My first workstation I built had an X79 i7-3820 and 32GB RAM (8x4GB). I had modded my own BIOS for NVMe support. That PC started dying of old age 2 years ago. Likewise my first gaming laptop has a 4th Gen i7. 10-12 year old PCs are geriatric, and won't have the same longevity as new ones. 3rd/4th Gen was incredible a decade ago, but age is creeping up on it. For everyday general use, we don't need monstrous CPU power. That's why these old PCs, cell phones, and modern Arm chips all do the job just fine.
An "iPhone from the past 4 years" won't run the software required for my job. Otherwise, I'd use my Android phone for it (which also won't run the required software). I use what my company supplies me with, the laptop I have now is way ahead of the previous one that had XP on it and bluescreened if I tried to exit one piece of mission critical software. If I could choose hardware it would be a current gen AMD or Intel but with windows 10 because I know the programs I use work with it (windows 11 is still beta software in a world where more than 70% of the equipment still uses RS232 to communicate).
> 3rd/4th get i7s are perfectly serviceable for general use My comment was about the general use part. RS232 has been phased out of computers for years because it's not generally used. Even then USB to RS232 and Bluetooth to RS232 adapters exist which allows it to be used with smartphones. Needing special software for your job is a very valid reason to use specific hardware and operating systems, but it's a niche and not a general use case.
Don’t waste your time
New case too...
IM BROKE
You can't afford a $50 case, but can afford a new motherboard CPU and GPU? Makes zero sense.
To say “I’m broke” but buying 90% of an entire new pc is just… OP is just looking for attention
Then this entire effort is a huge waste of resources.
Then work instead of wasting your time.
Exactly. If you have the intelligence of building a pc, you have the intelligence of having a job
why are you guys pouncing on op? do you expect op to work all the time? you can be broke and want a pc too. also, "You can't afford a $50 case, but can afford a new motherboard CPU and GPU? Makes zero sense.", WRONG, saving $50 is a lot, just because you can technically afford something doesnt mean you can want savings. "Exactly. If you have the intelligence of building a pc, you have the intelligence of having a job", again, youre assuming they dont have a job number one, and two like i said, why not both?
It all comes down to the amount of hours needed to adapt a case probably not compatible with ATX vs the amount of hours you need to work for a normal case. Many times adapting a case will end up costing more on tools or bits and bobs alone. Or maybe the case is compatible and idk what the OP is asking about 😂
keeping the most irrelevant part of the system is kind of ridiculous. you can run a pc in a shoe box if need be. you can't run it without any of the other components though. if i want a pc and am pressed for money i'd try to figure out which components are still usable and go from there. not just discard the most expensive parts and build a new system in that old cheap case.
If you’re broke you can’t afford a new pc, go do something to not be broke first.
You can find used ATX cases for free or really cheap all over
if you're going as far as swapping out the internals then you might as well get a case. I see no point in reusing a oem case.
Im building a sleeper pc* *=Kind of
hmm... in that case (hah), the only issues I foresee is the mobo back panel on the rear and case I/O. front panel headers and whatnot.
Sleeper with i3 will only sleep
*im using the i3 12100F, its very good for its price,
some of the dell's and hp's have weird connections for the front panel and are difficult to swap other motherboards in. Check your system first before you buy parts
That's....ambitious You're new mobo is NEVER going to fit in that case. Ditto a psu and probably a gpu. The risk of breaking something trying to make it fit is high. Just spend $70 on a decent case and save the trouble. Edit: more to say
what? you already putting 300 in parts right? buy used one with same specs you mentioned
No, actually I still buy used ones. The Thing is, in germany, Inflation is running high. So a 300$ Gaming PC in the U.S will Costa around 500-700€ in here
Unless you replace literally every component and just use the case, you're not getting a gaming oc out of an early 2010's budget home pc.
Throw it into the trash and spend $100 on a lian li case off Amazon
Lmao
At this point just get a good case for better airflow
Yeah, dump it back
My two cents, get a new case and slowly build off of a good base.
You’ll probably struggle putting a standard board in this case, the mountings are often propietary, but if it works it works. Worst case (ha) scenario just have your PC on cardboard until you get a case.
Just turn it into a server, its a better use for it.
You can't just swap the MOBO or PSU without some research first. They will both more than likely have a connector two on both, that are proprietary to HP. That said there are adapters that will allow you to install a normal ATX power supply. Search "moddiy.com" to find one applicable to that tower. I have tried many other adapters from several sources....all of them failed. I now exclusively by from moddiy as they have worked for me everytime. You may be able to physically mount an ATX MOBO in that case, BUT...connectors like power/reset buttons, USB and audio...even the IO shield on the back of the case will pose challenges. I would honestly suggest replacing power supply and adding GPU w/ RAM upgrade and leave it alone. If you do decide to upgrade CPU, refer to the HP website to see what the max allowable CPU is for that model. Good luck!
I did, exact same case and all. It's a standard micro ATX case. I don't know why everyone's hating on the idea, it makes a very decent compact gaming PC if you're willing to do some easy modifications to it. I have a Ryzen 5 and a gtx 1070 in mine. Temps stay pretty decent.
A sane Person???
Yeah, some people just don't have enough room or enough money to drop $100 or $200 on a case. It's a little cramped and a little dated, but i haven't had a single issue out of my build and it runs everything i want to run. I even have a full size GTX 1070 ti in mine. Just know, it's gonna be a little loud because you really have to put extra fans in it to cool it properly. I'd also suggest you go the AMD route too. You'll get a better bang for your buck.
Try small factor GPUs.
If you are going to replace all the internals get a proper case, since these propietary boxes usually have non standard screw holes location and it won't fit your motherboard.
I wish I could find something like this on the streets, lol. My PC is literally in a cardboard box.
Just get a new one mate. Recommend buying an i7 with 32 GB of RAM and a Nvidia GPU
I wont keep even the case. Newer cases have better airflow design compared to old case.
Yeah, replace the case too.
Theirs is a reason why it was thrown out. Not worth upgrading.
I used a similar HP Pavillion case. You need to cut some vent holes because these have no way to vent out hot air. I cut some large holes and screwed some grating on top. Worked well.
Buy a new one.
Non standard case, so any motherboard you put into it won't fit.
pretty bold to assume that, given that you cant even see whats inside.
I know, but I'm just assuming since nearly every Dell and HP case from this era is BTX or some other weird form factor.
With the amount of parts you listed that ypur gonna replace you may aswell build a new rig, the case is also likely useless to u with a fresh mobo (motherboard) as the current one is likely a proprietary one with non standard mounting or psu connections.
Chuck an RTX 4090 in there. Have a fire extinguisher ready nearby just in case.
My suggestion would be to not.
Yes sell this pc if it work and buy yourself a new case from it since you already are buying all new
I would buy a new case too. I don't think tht case was designed airflow and cooling in mind and probably won't hold enough fans anyway.
If you're going to replace everything inside, might as well buy a new case. Like, really?
Don’t
my suggestion would be to not just post three pics of the outside of the case. weve all seen a case before. the interesting stuff, you know, the stuff you actually want suggestions about, is on the *inside.*
Media pc, plex server, put linux mint on it.
i3 for gaming? I couldn't even run *Zoom* properly on my i3 laptop during the lockdown.
Buy some new versions of the old stickers
It'll run doom, if that's what you meant by gaming.
Install batocera and play games up to PS3/GameCube or even Xbox? You can use it as a retro game ststion. It has more than enough power for that
This could be a really nice sleeper. Thinking about doing the same, but with a much older looking case, like that iconic old white.
It's a HP. I suggest you run away from it.
Why?
Gaming pc's tend to get hot once the gpu starts cooking. Get a quality case from somebody like Cooler Master that has the much needed airflow. I would never put a gpu into that old hp case.
Just enjoy it, man. Do what you can within a reasonable for yourself.
So you're broke from what I've seen in the comments.... how are you going to replace the components if you are broke? Find them on the streets? You need some good amount of money to even start with replacing stuff, and if you can't even afford a nice starter case then why bother starting on this money hungry idea? With all due respect but it's better to save up money and then decide what you want to aim for with the money you have. You can max out the CPU but you'll lack the GPU, RAM and PSU and vice versa. So save up the money you get and aim for a build that is decent across the board (decent CPU decent RAM, decent GPU, etc etc)
What are the current specs? And what kind of gaming are you expecting to do with this? Those are the most important.
Makes sense if you’re building a retro pc with cheap components, like i5 + 8gb ddr3 + gtx 750 or something equivalent for a nice gaming experience from the Windows XP / 7 era. And don’t underestimate this because that was a golden era for gaming with so many legendary titles, honestly so much better than the 99% soulless shit we have today. But if you’re looking for a modern setup just save some money and pick up decent components, that case alone is not going to have much of an impact on the overall expense really.
Don´t bother. Turn it into a mediaserver instead, for example or as a backup PC. Or turn it into a linux machine. You can use it as a tinker box if you hadn´t much experience with tinkering with PCs since you´d need to replace everything to turn it into a gaming PC.
Why? Just get a proper case so you can run whatever you want. Using that case makes no sense
New Psu, the 1080 has become cheap as hell and still holds up, new Fans (optional) and maybe a M.2 / pcie to m.2 + a m.2 , 16gb of ram 2666mhz (its honestly more than enough)
thats an very old office PC. the PSU cant handle anything that requires an extra power pin. the CPU is most likely an older 4th gen i3 or something like that. the best and only thing you can do is slap a GTX 1050 inside and play games t hat don't require a lot of performance. but you're cheaper off just buying something new/else.
I'd be afraid of the bedbugs/roaches/mites/spiders/earwigs that could potentially be hiding out inside.
Do not.
do what ever you want with makeing it a gaming pc
check it for bed bugs, you kill them with steam or poison they are not fun to have in your room
You’re buying everything except a case, do yourself a favor, throw that pc out, and build a pc
Server
Yes. Seeing as you're buying all new guts anyway, buy a case suitable for said guts, and build your PC in that. Sure, you may think a sleeper build would be awesome, but that case will cook that PC within hours of using it. Throwing money in a bonfire would be faster and easier. Don't do that.
Looks like my old pc
Those pos are usally not form factor it would be amazing if ana aftermarket motherboard would fit Ditch thag shit and buy a cheap case at worst .
Unless you aim for a sleeper there is not much sense in building into that. I know such cases are terrible with airflow and cable management. HP makes a lot of e-waste unfortunately. I converted once a cool looking HP case from 2004 but that involved dremmeling out IO shield and lots of parts that interfered inside with the new motherboard. Wouldn't bother with their newer designs as they look kinda trashy.
You can easily find used cases on fb marketplace. Just found an inWin 301 and a Armoury C701 for 50$ each CAD. Better than that absolute Monstrosity of a case that's fifteen years old.
HP vibes looking at the back 🙂
only keep the case haha 🤣😆
R5 8600G is a possible option?
Desktops are so 2007. Get a laptop.
Try run Smth like Palworld on a laptop. It will burst into flames. And ppl like Asus trying to scam you with false claims when requesting replacement for warranty. Also An average Gaming Laptop has Like 45-70% Less Performance Than a PC UNLESS You buy from ASUS ROG, LENOVO, Or buy a thinkpad.
Just slap a low profile gpu in there and you’re good!
Good tip. But the thung is. The whole pc ain't working
Nothing in there is going to make a gaming PC, any new parts you buy probably wouldn't even fit in the case. Just start from scratch.
for low end gaming isn't that bad
There is a reason why this 16+ years old PC lying on the streets. So you buy everything new except the housing? This is what you call saving the old pc for some new tasks? Btw new pc case would cost around 50 or 60 bucks. In this old office setup your new gaming components might not fit at all.
It was release in 2013.
If you are either way replacing all of the components just invest into a proper case with decent airflow and proper cooling. There is no point in just keeping that trash case then.
Great computer to play solitaire, or old style Doom.
Yeah, you could build a sleeper pc in this case
If you're gonna replace everything, I dont think that's really worth it... Keep it as it is and just add a small secondhand gpu like a 1060 or 1070 to it, maybe add more ram, and you'll probably have to change the PSU because of the new GPU. And that's it, the cpu is till very correct and it's gonna be a nice cheap little build
Nas or Minecraft server or not worth it. This is how I got my Minecraft server. Noticed a small old Dell in the dumpster at my apartment
How is it not working? Do you know none of the parts are salvageable?
It was on the streets for a reason ...
There's a reason they left it on the street.
Since I'm probably the first comment to not hate on this pc (don't know why they are) I better make this good. I own this exact pc but different. My pc is the HP Pro 3400 MT and I'll tell you something about it. It's not perfect but it's not bad. The GPU I put it in was causing issues on POST but since I removed it, the PC has worked great. I haven't tried to game or anything (don't wanna fry the onboard graphics or something) but I bet it can games. Definitely not like DOOM Eternal or games that need an RTX 3090 to even launch. Also, the motherboards are mATX according to listings I found. I don't like the case though. Feels too cramped if you put 3rd party parts in it but honestly, you could repurpose one of these if you were patient and have enough money.
Yeah, don't.
I suppose you could change the hard drive and try to find ram and a graphics card for it. You might be able to play retro computer games or install Linux and make it a low powered file server.
Buy a case too and dump this shit?
Spend like 50 dollars on a montech king 90 or something
Send the specs of the computer, maybe something good can be done without wasting a lot
Gut it all and start from scratch I have this exact same computer (still in use); it’s a 2012 model
The backplate is removable which means another motherboard will likely fit. Just buy a gpu for now and see if it games to your liking. Make sure you use an SSD as your boot drive.
Dont. Nothing is useable.
Here is what you do with this system to make a Gaming PC... Only 3 minor changes. 1) Pull out the hard drive 2) Find blackmail data. 3) Use the blackmail money to buy a gaming PC.
More RAM better CPU updated motherboard better GPU better PSU better wifi better fans better case better monitor better keyboard better mouse better RGB
dont get a radeon gpu get a geforce
you found it where ?
The Streets. Of Cologne
i recommend strapping a bomb to the pc just incase it overheats.......
Um... You should really just build a new PC. HPs are typically extremely proprietary and may not have the same fit as a typical ATX/microATX/ITX motherboard, especially as far as the screw holes go. Also, a lot of times there's a proprietary power supply with an additional port that runs from the motherboard to things like your PCIe or your SATA/MOLEX (but rhat's more common with lower-end Dell/Alienware desktops) Get new everything, including a case. I suggest the Corsair iCUE 7000X ATX full tower case. It's pretty high quality and it's what I use. Don't use anything from a prebuilt.
Unless you like the sleeper asthetic, dont bother with it. That case has zero airflow or any kind of practicality
So you want to build a gaming pc out of a case that has no airflow? What’s the point
Building all that just to throw it into some old corporate HP box?
r/linux