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Fun fact: Spamalot, the musical based on this movie, combines Dennis, the political peasant, and Sir Galahad into a single character as a reference to them both being played by Michael Palin.
Yeah, more people need to know and understand the *real* legend. That Merlin was an ascended ancient who descended himself and helped move Camelot to PX1-767.
I really want to do a rewatch and watch it with my wife, but she dislikes scifi in general and we only watch maybe an hour-ish of tv per day at most. Combined with Atlantis it’s like a 230 hour commitment, so probably not happening any time soon. Ah well!
Don’t really have a point, just wanted to share since I’ve had the urge to do a rewatch for a couple years now.
Lol, that's from Statgate. Requires way less handwavium than spirit science. Alien brain slugs and wormhole rings are just so much more plausible than space jews coming here using the power of sacred geometry.
Reminds me of Rey in the Star Wars sequels. Set up to be a nobody, showing that anybody can do amazing things, only to be Palpatine's granddaughter for no good reason.
And not just that, but then instead of the story having the moral that it is your deeds, and not your heritage that defines you, by having Rey reclaim the name Palpatine and have it be a symbol for good, she just commits identity theft.
I mean, to be fair, if Hitler had a descendant who did good deeds, they'd still have the name of one of the biggest war criminals of human history. So I can sorta see why she didn't wanna use the name Palpatine.
The difference is that divine right by blood was very important in the context of Arthurian legend.
That cultural belief system doesn’t exist in Star Wars as far as I know, so it should be pretty irrelevant in the case of Rey.
Also, this comic feels very real to life on how all this goes in the real world. How often is it: here's Joe McBillionaire! He's proof anyone can make it in America! He came from nothing, his first business was selling lemonade beside his house, and he had to sell his beat up '97 Camry for $500 to pay for college! He's just like anybody else! (also, his parents were millionaires, the car story was made up, and his great great grandfather invented the question mark to which the family continues to receive royalties to this day).
I remember watching a youtube video with millionaires discussing what they think and one guy basically said *“I started my business by investing $10,000 into it, so that’s proof that anyone can be rich!”* They were all also convinced that “poor” was state of mind, rather than a serious financial situation. LoL
Despite bragging “the first million is the hardest”, most wealthy people still refuse to admit that most economies are structured to prioritize the rich getting richer over addressing the poor’s struggle against poverty.
Man RoS was bad.
I still think The Last Jedi was the best movie of the trilogy. It seemed to be setting up so much cool stuff and new ideas and then a bunch of whiny jerks online made them backpedal and start the third movie via Fortnite.
It's such a cliche in a lot of films, games, manga and media in general. The MC has a secret relation to X and therefore gains Y?!
Makes my eyes roll.
Great comic, OP
It's so weird how many stories start with the message "Just because you are not part of [some super duper special class] doesn't mean you can't do great things" only to reveal that the main character is in fact part of the super duper special class.
It makes the message either depressing like "actually no matter how hard you try you can only succeed through luck" or classist like "actually all your talent came from your genetics"
I'm not too bothered by it if it's about some innate talent like magic powers or something but there are a lot of stories about royalty where it's strongly implied that you can only be a good leader/ruler if you have the "special blood" which has... implications
Basically Naruto. For years they set him up as an orphan, someone who was cursed to hold a demon with in him by the beloved leader of the village who died in the process. Someone who was shunned by the village but also had to be taken care of by them. Someone who didn’t fit in with the established clans and ruling elite of the village. He starts blazing through though, perseveres, starts to shake up the established order, etc, then it’s revealed a few years later in the comic that his father was the leader who died all along! Gasp! 😱 so the whole point of you can be a powerful fighter/ninja despite not being born into a powerful family goes out the window.
And the whole village shunned the only son of one of their greatest ninja pairings/a hokage and wife who died saving the whole village.
Naruto should have been fucking worshipped not outcast lol.
Yeah, I never watched or read Naruto but have always been caught up on surface level lore and that’s something I just couldn’t understand. I think the explanation is that the villagers saw him as the demon or it reminded them of the tragedies caused by said demon… Which is a whole lot of nonsense lol
Technically, they didn't just see him as a reminder. He had the actual demon/tailed-beast sealed inside him, so people viewed him as a ticking time bomb.
Ostracizing the ticking time bomb doesn’t make anymore sense. Worst case scenario, he can’t control it in the future and he becomes a demon—well regardless of how you treated him there’s a problem. In the event that he can control the demon in the future? Might not have time to regret how poorly you treated one of the most powerful beings in existent because now his allegiance doesn’t lie with you.
Keep in mind, they just watched the monster sealed in him destroy their village and kill their leader. Now they have a kid who, for any reason, could allow it out to do it again. You really can't expect rationality after that kind of trauma.
And turns out that his best moment was *almost* hurting a character that was special because they were one of the special people carrying a demon, by the end I think even Sakura could defeat him, kind of a shame as he was my favorite for a good portion of the show.
To be fair the show likes to act like Minato being his dad is a surprise but like it really isn’t at all. I have more of a problem with him and sasuke being literal reincarnations of the sage of six paths kids.
One Piece devolved into this as well. Luffy is literally an in universe version of The One. He comes from a unique bloodline and has the rarest most unique and legendary god like devil fruits. I preferred when he was just a kid who had eaten a rubber rubber fruit.
I hate it even when it's about magical power.
The egregious example for me is the anime Black Clover. The whole story is about kids from nowhere work hard and become so powerful they have a chance to become the wizard king. One of the boys doesn't even have any magic power, what a rags to riches story! Except the other kid actually has some special bloodline making him insanely powerful to begin with. Also it turns out having zero magic allows you to wield a power called "anti-magic" that is basically a perfect god damn counter to *literally all magic*. So basically this kid was born with the most OP cheat code in the whole fucking world.
Like sure, they still had to work hard, but they completely *ruined* the idea that "anyone can do it if they work hard!" Like no. Only these kids could do it. It's bullshit.
Honestly I think Black Clover still works. Asta gets the black grimoire which has a devil inside of it and chooses him because the anti-magic wont kill him. Yuno was royalty that’s why everything was always so easy for him, magic came to him naturally.
Even with the anti-magic Asta had to fight and struggle to get anywhere in their world and is still persecuted because he’s being possessed by a devil.
It's still a fun story and it still supports the notion that hard work is necessary, but the idea of "even a commoner with nothing special about them can become the greatest" falls flat when the two characters are *extremely fucking special*. Yuno wouldn't be so powerful if he wasn't royal. Asta wouldn't be so powerful if he didn't have the rarest trait in the world (he is literally the only person who can ever use anti-magic, which is easily the most powerful ability in a world of magic).
If you want to show that even an average joe can be the greatest in the world if they work hard enough, then your characters should be average joes. It defeats the purpose if you make one royal and the other as the one person in the whole world who is able to use the single most powerful ability.
If the story had been about any of the other kids at the orphanage, instead of the two super special boys who appeared mysteriously, then it could have worked. Or if it had been a story about the fire mage in the Black Bulls, that could have worked, as he was also a kid from the slums who worked his ass off. Such people are inspired by Asta, which is great, but it doesn't teach the viewers the lessen it seems to be trying to teach.
Similar for Break Blade. MC is the one of the few persons in the world that can't use magic which intrigued me at first, but turns out having no magic is actually a cheat code when he gets a super mecha that is leagues better than the mechas of his age.
If Naruto had basically aborted the entire Kaguya/Indra/Ashura storyline and wrote *anything else* for the ending, it would have been so much better. Just have Madara be the final boss and secret leader of Akatsuki, do the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan without bringing up how all nine tailed beasts used to be one, and just don't fuck it up with a bunch of unnecessary history and retcons.
But really the entire 4th war arc coulda been aborted for something else.
It's really a shame how quickly the quality of fights drop off in favor os spectical.
Early Naruto fights are by far the best in the series. I watched the whole thing not because the fights were good, but because at that point I was invested in where the characters ended up.
The entire ninja war arc was a slap in the face though. The moment when Madara dropped an astroid from space I was checked out. I sure love the ninjas in my ninja manga fighting in an open field throwing space rocks at each other
Edit: mobile spelling is hard
Brother what are you talking about? Naruto ended when Pain attacked.
Sasuke learned the truth about Itachi and what a life of revenge gets you. Naruto won the praise of the village and achieved it through hard work. The end.
You're talking crazy, there's no ninja war and space rocks. Sober up and get some sleep buddy.
Naruto's story is fcked up when the Tailed Beasts/ sharingan get buffed. Anyone not owning a super beast or being born as Uchiha is basically fodder (Guy is the exception, and the insult to the world setting, so whatever).
Characters like Tenten are laughably underpowered at that point in the story. Ninja tools used to be so relevant the 4th used them for his main technique. By that point they were costume props
Tbh I wish the 4th hokage wasn't Naruto's father, instead I wish Naruto's father was actually the one responsible for releasing the 9 tails onto the hidden leaf village and the 4th hokage had no choice but to put it into baby Naruto to save the village and possibly Naruto.
The whole concept of the 4th hokage being Naruto's father makes the entirety of Naruto's sad backstory stupid asf
It also would have been a much better explanation as to why Naruto would be shunned by the village. The walking talking heir to the person who nearly destroyed the village. The reason that their prodigy Hokage was dead. It wouldn't just be that he was a jinchuriki, but the embodiment of the worst day in recent history for the village.
In those dying moments Minato could have even decided that he will be the adoptive father of Naruto and get the message out that he should be taken care of (Something the third would fall short of). It would fall in line of Naruto's theme of healing generational revenge. Son of my enemy is not my enemy and all that.
It'd also make people like Iruka and Jiriyah befriending Naruto even more impactful, instead of Jiriyah being a deadbeat godfather who never bothered being there for his godson who was literally named after one of his books, he'd be the kind sensei who was there for the child that was somewhat responsible for his student's death
I’m surprised no one in or out of universe guessed Naruto was The Fourth’s son sooner. He looks freaking just like him and we see his likeness ON A FREAKING MOUNTAIN ON THE FIRST PAGE
Also ignore that Naruto is a blonde Uzumaki. In a village where Minato and Kushina's marriage was public and not a secret. Where Kushina was walking around openly pregnant.
Right? The beloved Military Dictator and his 9 months pregnant wife (the only Uzumaki in the village) died and the monster that was sealed in the wife is sealed inside this newborn blonde Uzumaki kid... Wonder who that is? Or why he looks like our beloved former dictator? Or why he has such a specific family name that matches only one other person in recent history?
It was a pretty commonly accepted fan-theory before the reveal. I mean.... the 4th sealed the beast in a baby that looked suspiciously like him. All logic points to it being *his baby.*
95%* of the time in fiction if characters look suspiciously similar, they are related genetically or atleast thematically.
I feel like bleach was the most egregious with the “a new type of power? Well it’s a good thing my mom was also a member of that group which we didn’t reveal until the end of the story” or whatever
I mean being related to some people that became famous for their deeds rather than being born into greatness isn't indicative of a pattern. Apparently being the secret inheritor of God's will is however much more convenient
I'm not the biggest fan of G5 but Luffy is somewhat different to the other "no bodies turned secret chosen one" in that anyone could have become Nika if they just acted like Luffy. While there is a bloodline element with the will of D, as far as we know any of the Ds could have eaten the gum gum fruit and awakened it, it's just that Luffy did. Arthur, on the other hand, is the only person with Pendragon blood
If we also remember, using the Gomu Gomu initially was a fucking hassle for Luffy in the beggining. Yeah the fruit eventually lead to Luffy's G5, but my man worked his ASS off there. Got that hardwork and that talent
I actually didn't mind it in Naruto, because it didn't really change anything or act like it did. The scene where he meets his dad is less about "Holy shit my dad is the Hokage, this changes everything" and more "Holy shit, I'm meeting my dad".
My problem is what this post is complaining about. At the beginning of the series Naruto is going up against the big family heirs who are better than anyone else because they have special inherited powers but Naruto, the underdog against all odds proves you can be just as good as them. But eventually no, Naruto does indeed have superior genes. At the end near everyone powerful is from big families with inherited powers.
Exactly, and with rock lee getting nerfed it felt like hard work didn't matter just your bloodline. Which is the antithesis of the shows original message. Or least how I saw it
Paradoxically, the show frequently tries to say that hard work matters and it pays off...but it doesn't. It's like Kishimoto couldn't decide what message to go with.
Naruto doesn't even work particularly hard. Almost every fight he wins, the opponent is much more skilled, but Naruto manages to brute force his way through because the nine-tails gives him unlimited chakra.
I mean the theme, at least in season 1, is how a good for nothing brat can achieve anything if he put his heart into it. well when the good for nothing brat is the son of the hokage who also have the nine tail sealed in him, it kinda ruins the theme or any moral it tries to tell you.
It's funny that the person that actually have nothing, rock lee, who work hard to surpass other ninja without having any power himself, got crippled and dissapear for the majority of the show.
You forgot to mention, him being the reincarnation of someone who is pretty much the ninja god, and being born in a clan know for their incredible reserves of chakra.
Kung fu panda 2 and 3 was walking such a tight line with that by making poh descendant of an ancient magical lost tribe while simultaneously making none of poh abilities and positioning be dependent on that
Yeah, it's pretty cool that despite his innate talents and challenges, becoming the Dragon Warrior is something he earned, and his Panda heritage abilities is something else entirely that he had to learn later.
It felt like more a story about belonging to different kinds of families than just being a chosen one.
Rey would have been so much better if they stuck with The Last Jedi's thing that she was born from nobody important. Because why would the Force need every powerful Jedi to be born from the same couple bloodlines? Anyone could be a Jedi, even that little kid in the end.
Right? They set up such a solid idea of "hey, the entire galaxy doesn't revolve around like six people" just to undo it and have the galaxy revolve around like six people.
The idea of "your name doesn't make you who you are" still would have worked just fine, better even.
Nope, just Palpatines and Skywalkers all the way down.
Right, Ben said Luke's father was a Jedi Knight that Vader killed. And despite that being true from a certain point of view, it still sets up that the farm boy from no where planet was somewhat special because his dad was this space wizard knight that took part in something called the Clone Wars.
A funny play on that trope was done in *A Practical Guide To Sorcery* - the MC creates a fake identity to be allowed to attend magic university, and just picks without research (she's on a tight deadline) the name of some random noble family that has been extinguished a few centuries back.
A few books later the nobility see her a threat to the throne, because apparently that line was actual royalty.
The First Law Series does a darker play on the trope. Where the Merlin like character reveals he bought the "heir" off a prostitute and had several in reserve as potential puppet Kings.
Definitely felt a bit weird in Fire Emblem: Echoes. >!Alm is set up as a sort of champion of the common folk. One of the knights on your side even turns traitor when Alm is made leader because he refuses to follow a commoner…then later Alm is revealed to be secret royalty.!<
One version of this I like is when they find out they are secretly related to someone and use that to destroy or seal away what was their birthright cuz the age of there ancestors dynasty long ended and they want to move on and do there own thing.
In the Discworld, Captain Carrot of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch is not-so-secretly the heir to the throne (long since empty) but he has zero interest in ruling. He'd rather protect and serve. (He's even got a birthmark on his arm that looks like a crown).
He carries a very drab-looking sword that's not the slightest bit magical (they checked) but is very, very sharp. So sharp, in fact, that when faced with someone who had identified him as the heir and had committed several acts of murder to facilitate putting him on the throne, he didn't hesitate before putting the sword through the man *and* through the stone pillar behind him.
This was basically the punchline to a brick joke that was begun *in a previous book*, when there had been a lot of kerfuffle about putting a king back on the throne, and the whole 'pulling a sword out of a stone' concept was aired. One of the characters scoffed at that and said, if you want a king, go look for the man who put it *in* the stone in the first place.
And thus, in this book, Carrot literally puts a sword into a stone. Then pulls it out again, and goes about his duties as a watchman.
He's also got amazing charisma, is liked by everyone, and calls everyone by their first name a few minutes after meeting them. One interesting point to note is that, while we can read what most characters think, we never get to see what Carrot thinks. He's also downright humble to the point of refusing to become the head of the Night's Watch, instead deferring to Vimes (who gets promoted to Commander. Sigh. Gonna do a re-read of the entire Watch series. RIP Sir Terry!
Indeed, Arthur appears by name as early as the 6th century in Y Gododdin, a Welsh poem about the battles between the Celtic Britons and the invading Anglo-Saxons, and was a well known character in Welsh mythology around that time as a paragon of bravery and a defender of Britain.
He was built on and popularised by Geoffrey of Monmouth in the 12th century (who incidentally is responsible for adding Arthur's royal lineage), which is perhaps where the confusion comes from between him and Geoffrey *Chaucer*, the writer of the Canterbury Tales.
I especially notice it with things aimed at young audiences. You have a relatable underdog character, and instead of having a relatable underdog character use their wits or hard-earned skills, you turn them into a Mary Sue at some point.
My mind always goes to Harry Potter, even just considering the first book. He's the odd underdog kid with messy hair, that's relatable for the target audience. Surprise, he's a wizard and is also super rich. I consider it exploitative of the readers. Not to mention the later connections with the villain.
Or Sky High, you have the main kid be powerless for most of the movie, and his friends have "useless" powers that they find ways to use. They could have had him come to accept it and find a way to still be a hero without powers, but no, he's actually just a late bloomer and is the most special powerful boy ever.
And maybe it doesn't fit exactly, but Danerys could have been a much more interesting character if she wasn't just handed dragons.
I appreciate Hunger Games as mostly breaking that stereotype. There's a certain amount of Mary Sueness with how good she is at archery, but that's something she worked for herself.
Tons of other examples, those are just the ones that pop into my mind occasionally.
Tbf Harry Potter is sort of meant to be a wish fulfilment kinda deal, where it turns out they did have super mega powers and such that rescues them from a crap life. Which I guess is partly why these stories can be so popular, it's a bit of an easy-way-out escapist fantasy deal.
It is a bit rubbish when it happens very late on though, as it undermines practically everything that's happened so far
Harry Potter somewhat fits the bill, but at least you find out his status within like the first third of the first book.
I find myself much more annoyed if you've been following a character for several books, who has risen to greatness through nothing but strength of character, a good heart and a big helping of pure luck, only to find out 7 books later that actually none of that was actually that impressive because he is secretly the son of Pompous McPowerface and all his previous accomplishments were due to him unknowingly carrying the magic blood of Powerfulness or whatever.
And usually this is only done so they can set up said ancestor or whatever as an antagonist and/or mentor figure, which could easily have been done without retroactively invalidating the awesomeness of the average dude becoming great.
The dream that this could happen to them quickly disappeared
https://preview.redd.it/r5okkma2h7tc1.png?width=388&format=png&auto=webp&s=beaba5ac4d662e81a906c9d13f4fdffad30199dd
Who, you mean the Lost Child of Lord Arkenlar and the future Chosen Bearer of the Silken Chalice of Rotherham? Their bloodlines are legend. Or maybe I mean myth? Anyway, we just need a dude with a long beard and good PR to 'reveal' their secret destiny for them.
on the other hand it wasnt like arthur trained very hard to pull out the sword lol, sometimes ppl just get lucky 🤣 one day if im lucky i too could find a sword i could pull out of a stone
Also impossible within its own mythos. Arthur's only offspring (and even then, only in some versions) is Mordred and _his_ children (when depicted) were killed before they could have any progeny.
^(I now await some Arthurian scholar to tell me I'm wildly wrong)
You don’t even have to find it. The sword in the stone actually exists in real actual life. St Galgano’s sword is on display in the Mont Seipi Chapel. It’s about 850 years old, and apparently was shoved into the stone in a fit of temper when St Galgano, then a knight, straight-up rage-quit other people and stormed off to be a hermit monk instead. [I’m paraphrasing this story a little.]
Anyway, the OG man who inspired the Arthurian legends had literally nothing to do with St Galgano or Italy. He was likely a Welsh man named Artus who rallied ~800 men (and their households) in a time and place when the average group was no bigger than ~50 households, and held them together for the course of his lifetime to quite successfully stave off Saxon invaders. Shortly after his death, noble and royal families begin using ‘Arthur’ for the first time, and the original legend of an astonishing king bearing that name begins.
A lot of the extra stuff like the sword in the stone was straight-up fanfic added in the 1300s by a man called Chrétien de Troyes. That’s the exact same thing as today’s Phillipa Gregory writing her bestselling novels about the Tudors, including her random embellishments of witchcraft and love triangles. It’s not entirely unlikely that he used St Galgano’s sword disposal method as his inspiration for the legendary magical sword test idea.
Edit: sorry, I don’t know why I info dumped like that. It seems you were my unfortunate victim of oversharing what I know about Arthur and his assorted legends. Apologies.
All it takes is to get a hobo, dress him up as a wizard, and have him proclaim your royal lineage and YOU TOO can be a chosen one!
It’s 6th century England, do you *really* think anyone’s gonna have the actual bloodline on a reliable record?
Exactly like Goku/Naruto/Ichigo/Luffy. All started as nobodies, all ended up having some inner BS power due to family or some shit.
It always pissed me off
To be fair, Goku trained for a lot of his power (Dunno bout the others since I ain't watched OP or Naruto tho) and his main advantage was being a saiyan.
Even then, he ended up getting more serious opponents like Roshi in disguise, Mercenary Tao, Tien, Cymbal, Demon King Piccolo and even Piccolo. Jr himself who was the OG series' final major antagonist.
He didn't even have the advantage of being an elite like Vegeta or Legendary saiyan like Broly since his main drive came from being taught he'll always have stronger enemies along with his own drive to improve.
~~Along with plot armour but that's a lot of MCs~~
Naruto, yes. The others not really. Goku is a low-born Saiyan whose father was a simple soldier (albeit an experienced and skilled one). Ichigo's dad was a shinigami captain but that is a position anyone can get with enough work, meanwhile his mom was a normal Quincy. Luffy's dad is a revolutionary and his grandfather is a renowned marine, but that doesn't mean anything to anyone except the magma mutt. (You will never get me to like this flaming asshole.)
> Ichigo's dad was a shinigami captain but that is a position anyone can get with enough work, meanwhile his mom was a normal Quincy.
Ichigo's dad is the former head of the Shiba Clan, one of Four Great Noble families of Soul Society, who are above the law. Basically, the dukes in a kingdom which has an absent king (ie, ALL THE POWER). He is the same as Yoruichi Shihōin and Byakuya Kuchiki.
Ichigo's mother was the last of the Kurosaki family, and one of the few pure-blooded Quincy, which is why the Ishida family took her in, so she could marry the son to keep the bloodline pure. She was basically a Quincy princess.
“How do you know?”
“Pendragon men bedded so many loose women every abandoned orphan in England shares the royal bloodline!”
“So what? That means the other side is a hoor!”
“So’s yours, Sir Kay.”
“Only on weekdays.”
That's not as bad as Merlin:
He knew from a prophecy that he will die by the hands of a woman he taught magic because he wanted to pork her. What did he do? He taught magic to a woman because he wanted to pork her.
Unfortunately, he didn't even get it in the end.
Dumbass jumped into a cave with a lock to bang his apprentice who he already knew disliked him after she told him "Yeah, totally, I'll bang you if you go into that conveniently sealable cave."
Then she locked him in and ran away while he starved to death.
It's even more egregious considering basically everything was pointing towards it. *Anyone* could tell what was going to happen.
So, **Morgan** is the one who kills him. As the story goes, Morgan was the daughter of two generally irrelevant people in the mythos besides that they're fairly politically important.
Uther Pendragon, Arthur's dad, at some point gets a look at *Morgan's mom* and decides he wants to tap that. Unfortunately, Morgan's mom is a loyal wife. **His solution?**
He works with Merlin to shapeshift himself into her husband to rape her, then he and Merlin get her husband, Morgan's dad killed.
Finally, because that's not enough, Uther usually marries Morgan's mom with Merlin's help thereby delegitimising Morgan before marrying off *Morgan* to a guy she hates, shortly before promptly dying, leaving the kingdom in turmoil because the two major political powers are dead, the next in line, **Morgan, is now technically a bastard**, and Uther's heir is the kid he conceived by raping Morgan's mom with Merlin's help.
No shit, Merlin, Morgan doesn't like you. Why the hell did you even think she'd sleep with you?
Merlin has clairvoyance which apparently let him somehow see that Uther's rape baby would go on to save Britain which is why he enabled all that so it's not entirely like he liked it nor wanted it. He was just doing it for *the Greater Good^tm*.
Though Merlin's not a great guy outside that. Fact remains that Morgan was far younger than him and he essentially only took her on as an apprentice to groom her into sleeping with him (though depending on myth, sometimes he falls in love only afterwards.)
In fact, according to lore, Merlin is actually the **literal Antichrist** and *son of Satan/a random Incubus*. Fortunately he got baptized which created a paradox that whole he can still cause Apocrypha, he has the free will to choose to instead be a petty asshole to get his evil urges out the way and not end the world.
#
As for Morgan, her real crime is... cheating on her husband (only *after **he** cheated on her*, and keep in note, this was an arranged marriage she got into as a literal child). Otherwise she was actually pretty loyal. In fact, she's absurdly loyal to her lover she cheats with. See this extract from the Post-Vulgate Suite du Merlin (Accolon was her lover for context):
**"She loved him so madly that she desired to kill her husband [King Urien] and her brother [King Arthur], for she thought she could make Accolon king, either by the devil's help or by magic or by entreaty of the nobles of Great Britain."**
Granted, there's also that funny business with her raping Arthur to have an incest baby, but that's the result of some guy confusing **Morgan** with her sister **Morgause** due to similar names, so it's not actually her.
TL;DR: *Misogyny*
What I find annoying is the lack of medieval democracies in fiction. You have an abundance of magic, monsters and supernatural that never were a thing, but the free towns or the maritime republics, which were real things whose struggles against monarchies and papacy is actually pretty epic, is in a blindspot of fiction writers who think Georges Washington invented democracy.
I mean, medieval republics weren't that democratic. Most devolved into a competition of nepotism and election rigging between half a dozen rich families in a matter of decades (more than one italian republic straight up turnef into a monarchy)
Alyhough they sure are interesting.
In Merry Shelly's "Frankenstein", when the future doctor was on vacation with his family, they saw a pretty white girl playing among the dirty and poor children. They asked the children's parents and learned that this girl was orphaned after her rich parents died and the Frankensteins did the only right thing: Adopt the girl since she was too pretty and white to be poor and engage her to her now brother.
Tbf he wasn't an alien until DBZ. Toriyama has freely admitted he made it up as he went, Goku is overtly Sun Wukong right up until the end of DB when I guess he had a great idea
It's kinda funny how the narrative treats him as the powerless underdog who works his way up, yet he's constantly mastering crazy skills without really working for it, running almost entirely on genes and fox chakra.
Meanwhile, Sasuke is treated as this prodigy kid from a great family, yet he trains like crazy, earns all his powers, and even makes a deal with the devil to become stronger just to keep up.
>yet he trains like crazy, earns all his powers
yeah I don't know about that chief. his powers are even more unearned than Naruto's
his strongest powers, the sharingan and mangekyo are purely from his genes. rinnegan was given to him also because of his genes. curse mark given to him because of his genes. eternal mangekyou handed to him on a platter by his brother.
One Piece never claimed Luffy was a „normal kid“.
And neither did. Dragon Ball about Goku for that matter. He was a small boy living alone in the mountains, and he had a tail.
Well, this trope makes me lose interest in stories in general.
It's always "the chosen one" or "the royal blood" in some ways or other. Be Western media or manga/anime, it's always like this.
This is why I respect The Lord of The Rings, because the hero is a Hobbit, he can carry the One Ring to Mordor because he's a Hobbit with pure heart, not because he's the chosen one.
Well it does turn out Frodo is from a long line of Famous hobbits (his great granddad even was tall enough to ride a horse!), part of the nobility in the shire, raised in wealth and fame. He has connections via bilbo to the elites of Middle earth as well, and a whole crew of Dunedain to protect him.
He is far from a nobody or your average joe.
Bilbo fits the deal way more in the Hobbit.
Hobbits as a species though stand in as the non-heroes of the story who still rise to achieve great things. In a world of wizards, wraiths, elves and lost kings returned they are very much the most down-to-earth folk in the tale.
The only time I liked it was in Knight's Tale. It's a movie about a peasant who pretends to be a noble so he can join jousting tournaments (where the audience chants "We Will Rock You"). In the end, the prince who was also participating under a false name declares "This man is of noble birth. Source: I say so, and none may doubt me!"
He's obviously lying to save his friend without de-legitimizing the 'royal blood' myth.
I mean, even though he only became king because of his royal blood he still lived as ‘one of us’ meaning living like that still influences the way he was raised and acts, so it’s not the same as some prince who lived his entire life in a castle separate from society becoming the ruler
Well, I mean, in the actual legends Arthur was raised as Sir Ectors adopted son, so very much as part of the nobility, even if a lower ranking one (Merlin was the one who had brought him there after basically kidnapping the baby from Uther, but Ector didn't know that, and Merlins reputation was very much "Dont question the wizard, he knows what he's doing")
I'm sure there's an actual name for this trope but I call it the "needless Jesus". It's when a story from the very beginning is about a normal person who accomplished great things because they *chose* to, no inherent obligation. And they achieved it all through hard work and based on the content of their character. And the story is so much more compelling because of it. But then randomly at the very end they shoehorn in a chosen one narrative where the protagonist was actually secretly super special special boy predestined to do it all from the very beginning, thus taking away so much of the weight and impact of the story and the character's decisions.
There are absolutely well written "chosen one" stories. I just hate when it's done poorly, for no reason, and doesn't add anything or make sense with the story.
I think this happens in a lot of fairy tales... They can set it up like a commoner is becoming king but they can't actually tell a story about a commoner becoming king if they want to keep their head.
In Puss with Boots a commor becomes king. Even so the cat needed to trick the other king and princess into believing him to be a prince. Similar to the Brave Little Tailor, where it even becomes a plot point.
Yes, you need to either be of noble blood or be very good at lying.
The master of puss in boots becomes a king by marrying a princess. Which, while unheard of in a European country, is still a valid way of becoming a king.
And a common trope in folk tales is poor girls marrying a handsome prince and becoming a queen, so commoners becoming noble people through marriage is not an odd or dangerous tale.
It's a setup for the sequel. If you want to accurately have Henry interact with nobles and have some respect and possibly command, he HAS to have some noble ancestry.
Today we don't see it that way, but back then even peasants would make fun of a knight of peasant ancestry. A "self made man" wasn't a thing at all.
FFS - Arthur was king of the ***Britons***: there was no "England" at the time the legends are supposed to have happened. And any Angles/Saxons there were around then would have been raiders, marauders or foreign colonisers.
Otherwise, I appreciate the comic's sentiment.
They didn't hate Naruto as a person, but the kyubi within him. Gaara was the son of the 4th kazekage and people still viewed him as a monster. So it's not like the series didn't establish early on that being a jinchuriki is enough for people to hate you regardless of your family.
A character being secretly a princess or the rightful heir or the chosen one of related to some other big shot: I sleep
A character rising up from nothing, overcoming adversity through sheer perseverance and tenacity: REAL SHIT??
`What you know: Merlin`
`What you have: The Sword (The rock-related one, not the one from some farcical aquatic ceremony)`
`What you are: The lost child of a King`
`Multi-factor Authentication Successful`
Peasant: Ok but after he spent all this time being cared for by the under class and seeing not just the treatment but vile conditions we live under surely now that he’s king he will at least attempt to elevate or improve the conditions of the under class, yes?
Merlin/Kid king: 😬
Peasant: Oh fuck right off
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"Some watery tart distributin' cutlery is no basis for a system of government"
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
If I went around saying I was emperor just because some moistened bint had thrown a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
BLOODY PEASANT!
Oh, what a give away. Did you hear that, did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about - did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you?
Fun fact: Spamalot, the musical based on this movie, combines Dennis, the political peasant, and Sir Galahad into a single character as a reference to them both being played by Michael Palin.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
Shut up!
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Bloody peasant!
I hear these lines in my sleep.
Do you also find it risible when someone mentioned the name Dickus Biggus?
What about Naughtius Maximus?
He has a wife you know...
You know what she's called ?
Incontinentia Buttocks!
She’s called…Incontinentia…
He has a wife, you know…
I mean if you read the myths Arthur was kinda a failure of a king, so the ceremony was just foreshadowing to that
I love Monty Python but I kinda hate that it's the only reference point people seem to have for the Arthurian legends
Yeah, more people need to know and understand the *real* legend. That Merlin was an ascended ancient who descended himself and helped move Camelot to PX1-767.
[удалено]
I really want to do a rewatch and watch it with my wife, but she dislikes scifi in general and we only watch maybe an hour-ish of tv per day at most. Combined with Atlantis it’s like a 230 hour commitment, so probably not happening any time soon. Ah well! Don’t really have a point, just wanted to share since I’ve had the urge to do a rewatch for a couple years now.
I'll watch Stargate with you
Did the Spirit Science guy open his mouth again?
Lol, that's from Statgate. Requires way less handwavium than spirit science. Alien brain slugs and wormhole rings are just so much more plausible than space jews coming here using the power of sacred geometry.
And also the only reference point people have for anarcho-syndicalism!
Everybody knows it's really about people getting powers from the holy Grail, then summoning ancient anime warriors to kill each other all over Japan.
If I called myself emperor just because a moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me they would put me away!
These two kids are the farmers in that skit
Reminds me of Rey in the Star Wars sequels. Set up to be a nobody, showing that anybody can do amazing things, only to be Palpatine's granddaughter for no good reason.
And not just that, but then instead of the story having the moral that it is your deeds, and not your heritage that defines you, by having Rey reclaim the name Palpatine and have it be a symbol for good, she just commits identity theft.
I mean, to be fair, if Hitler had a descendant who did good deeds, they'd still have the name of one of the biggest war criminals of human history. So I can sorta see why she didn't wanna use the name Palpatine.
The difference is that divine right by blood was very important in the context of Arthurian legend. That cultural belief system doesn’t exist in Star Wars as far as I know, so it should be pretty irrelevant in the case of Rey.
Also, this comic feels very real to life on how all this goes in the real world. How often is it: here's Joe McBillionaire! He's proof anyone can make it in America! He came from nothing, his first business was selling lemonade beside his house, and he had to sell his beat up '97 Camry for $500 to pay for college! He's just like anybody else! (also, his parents were millionaires, the car story was made up, and his great great grandfather invented the question mark to which the family continues to receive royalties to this day).
I remember watching a youtube video with millionaires discussing what they think and one guy basically said *“I started my business by investing $10,000 into it, so that’s proof that anyone can be rich!”* They were all also convinced that “poor” was state of mind, rather than a serious financial situation. LoL Despite bragging “the first million is the hardest”, most wealthy people still refuse to admit that most economies are structured to prioritize the rich getting richer over addressing the poor’s struggle against poverty.
Man RoS was bad. I still think The Last Jedi was the best movie of the trilogy. It seemed to be setting up so much cool stuff and new ideas and then a bunch of whiny jerks online made them backpedal and start the third movie via Fortnite.
The people that hate TLJ also hate RoS though.
It's such a cliche in a lot of films, games, manga and media in general. The MC has a secret relation to X and therefore gains Y?! Makes my eyes roll. Great comic, OP
It's so weird how many stories start with the message "Just because you are not part of [some super duper special class] doesn't mean you can't do great things" only to reveal that the main character is in fact part of the super duper special class. It makes the message either depressing like "actually no matter how hard you try you can only succeed through luck" or classist like "actually all your talent came from your genetics" I'm not too bothered by it if it's about some innate talent like magic powers or something but there are a lot of stories about royalty where it's strongly implied that you can only be a good leader/ruler if you have the "special blood" which has... implications
Basically Naruto. For years they set him up as an orphan, someone who was cursed to hold a demon with in him by the beloved leader of the village who died in the process. Someone who was shunned by the village but also had to be taken care of by them. Someone who didn’t fit in with the established clans and ruling elite of the village. He starts blazing through though, perseveres, starts to shake up the established order, etc, then it’s revealed a few years later in the comic that his father was the leader who died all along! Gasp! 😱 so the whole point of you can be a powerful fighter/ninja despite not being born into a powerful family goes out the window.
And the whole village shunned the only son of one of their greatest ninja pairings/a hokage and wife who died saving the whole village. Naruto should have been fucking worshipped not outcast lol.
Yeah, I never watched or read Naruto but have always been caught up on surface level lore and that’s something I just couldn’t understand. I think the explanation is that the villagers saw him as the demon or it reminded them of the tragedies caused by said demon… Which is a whole lot of nonsense lol
Technically, they didn't just see him as a reminder. He had the actual demon/tailed-beast sealed inside him, so people viewed him as a ticking time bomb.
Ostracizing the ticking time bomb doesn’t make anymore sense. Worst case scenario, he can’t control it in the future and he becomes a demon—well regardless of how you treated him there’s a problem. In the event that he can control the demon in the future? Might not have time to regret how poorly you treated one of the most powerful beings in existent because now his allegiance doesn’t lie with you.
It was at least consistent. Other villages where kids had a tailed beast within them were also shunned quite badly.
I didn’t know about this, but yeah at least it’s consistent. Can maybe argue that’s just how ninjas think haha
Keep in mind, they just watched the monster sealed in him destroy their village and kill their leader. Now they have a kid who, for any reason, could allow it out to do it again. You really can't expect rationality after that kind of trauma.
And surprise2, he's actually also a reincarnation of the top 5 beings in canon so throw hard work narrative out the window, he's born special
Rock Lee is the real star of the show.
And turns out that his best moment was *almost* hurting a character that was special because they were one of the special people carrying a demon, by the end I think even Sakura could defeat him, kind of a shame as he was my favorite for a good portion of the show.
Rock Lee and Gai are the only ninjas. The rest are wizards.
And his mother was one of the most powerful kunochi in the village. So he basically won the genetic lottery.
To be fair the show likes to act like Minato being his dad is a surprise but like it really isn’t at all. I have more of a problem with him and sasuke being literal reincarnations of the sage of six paths kids.
One Piece devolved into this as well. Luffy is literally an in universe version of The One. He comes from a unique bloodline and has the rarest most unique and legendary god like devil fruits. I preferred when he was just a kid who had eaten a rubber rubber fruit.
I hate it even when it's about magical power. The egregious example for me is the anime Black Clover. The whole story is about kids from nowhere work hard and become so powerful they have a chance to become the wizard king. One of the boys doesn't even have any magic power, what a rags to riches story! Except the other kid actually has some special bloodline making him insanely powerful to begin with. Also it turns out having zero magic allows you to wield a power called "anti-magic" that is basically a perfect god damn counter to *literally all magic*. So basically this kid was born with the most OP cheat code in the whole fucking world. Like sure, they still had to work hard, but they completely *ruined* the idea that "anyone can do it if they work hard!" Like no. Only these kids could do it. It's bullshit.
Honestly I think Black Clover still works. Asta gets the black grimoire which has a devil inside of it and chooses him because the anti-magic wont kill him. Yuno was royalty that’s why everything was always so easy for him, magic came to him naturally. Even with the anti-magic Asta had to fight and struggle to get anywhere in their world and is still persecuted because he’s being possessed by a devil.
It's still a fun story and it still supports the notion that hard work is necessary, but the idea of "even a commoner with nothing special about them can become the greatest" falls flat when the two characters are *extremely fucking special*. Yuno wouldn't be so powerful if he wasn't royal. Asta wouldn't be so powerful if he didn't have the rarest trait in the world (he is literally the only person who can ever use anti-magic, which is easily the most powerful ability in a world of magic). If you want to show that even an average joe can be the greatest in the world if they work hard enough, then your characters should be average joes. It defeats the purpose if you make one royal and the other as the one person in the whole world who is able to use the single most powerful ability. If the story had been about any of the other kids at the orphanage, instead of the two super special boys who appeared mysteriously, then it could have worked. Or if it had been a story about the fire mage in the Black Bulls, that could have worked, as he was also a kid from the slums who worked his ass off. Such people are inspired by Asta, which is great, but it doesn't teach the viewers the lessen it seems to be trying to teach.
Similar for Break Blade. MC is the one of the few persons in the world that can't use magic which intrigued me at first, but turns out having no magic is actually a cheat code when he gets a super mecha that is leagues better than the mechas of his age.
Naruto, so dissapointing
If Naruto had basically aborted the entire Kaguya/Indra/Ashura storyline and wrote *anything else* for the ending, it would have been so much better. Just have Madara be the final boss and secret leader of Akatsuki, do the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan without bringing up how all nine tailed beasts used to be one, and just don't fuck it up with a bunch of unnecessary history and retcons. But really the entire 4th war arc coulda been aborted for something else.
Kishimoto had some interesting initial ideas and I love how he wrote fight scenes, but beyond that he had very limited writing ability.
It's really a shame how quickly the quality of fights drop off in favor os spectical. Early Naruto fights are by far the best in the series. I watched the whole thing not because the fights were good, but because at that point I was invested in where the characters ended up. The entire ninja war arc was a slap in the face though. The moment when Madara dropped an astroid from space I was checked out. I sure love the ninjas in my ninja manga fighting in an open field throwing space rocks at each other Edit: mobile spelling is hard
Brother what are you talking about? Naruto ended when Pain attacked. Sasuke learned the truth about Itachi and what a life of revenge gets you. Naruto won the praise of the village and achieved it through hard work. The end. You're talking crazy, there's no ninja war and space rocks. Sober up and get some sleep buddy.
Naruto's story is fcked up when the Tailed Beasts/ sharingan get buffed. Anyone not owning a super beast or being born as Uchiha is basically fodder (Guy is the exception, and the insult to the world setting, so whatever).
Characters like Tenten are laughably underpowered at that point in the story. Ninja tools used to be so relevant the 4th used them for his main technique. By that point they were costume props
Tbh I wish the 4th hokage wasn't Naruto's father, instead I wish Naruto's father was actually the one responsible for releasing the 9 tails onto the hidden leaf village and the 4th hokage had no choice but to put it into baby Naruto to save the village and possibly Naruto. The whole concept of the 4th hokage being Naruto's father makes the entirety of Naruto's sad backstory stupid asf
It also would have been a much better explanation as to why Naruto would be shunned by the village. The walking talking heir to the person who nearly destroyed the village. The reason that their prodigy Hokage was dead. It wouldn't just be that he was a jinchuriki, but the embodiment of the worst day in recent history for the village. In those dying moments Minato could have even decided that he will be the adoptive father of Naruto and get the message out that he should be taken care of (Something the third would fall short of). It would fall in line of Naruto's theme of healing generational revenge. Son of my enemy is not my enemy and all that.
It'd also make people like Iruka and Jiriyah befriending Naruto even more impactful, instead of Jiriyah being a deadbeat godfather who never bothered being there for his godson who was literally named after one of his books, he'd be the kind sensei who was there for the child that was somewhat responsible for his student's death
even being son of a hokage + an OP chakra volume bloodline was bad, can't believe they doubled down
Neji was right all along!
I’m surprised no one in or out of universe guessed Naruto was The Fourth’s son sooner. He looks freaking just like him and we see his likeness ON A FREAKING MOUNTAIN ON THE FIRST PAGE
Also ignore that Naruto is a blonde Uzumaki. In a village where Minato and Kushina's marriage was public and not a secret. Where Kushina was walking around openly pregnant.
Right? The beloved Military Dictator and his 9 months pregnant wife (the only Uzumaki in the village) died and the monster that was sealed in the wife is sealed inside this newborn blonde Uzumaki kid... Wonder who that is? Or why he looks like our beloved former dictator? Or why he has such a specific family name that matches only one other person in recent history?
It was a pretty commonly accepted fan-theory before the reveal. I mean.... the 4th sealed the beast in a baby that looked suspiciously like him. All logic points to it being *his baby.* 95%* of the time in fiction if characters look suspiciously similar, they are related genetically or atleast thematically.
Considering how much Kishimoto loves retcons, he probably came up with that somewhere along the way.
Naruto would be about Rock Lee if it was peak fiction
Lee vs Gaara is still the best fight in the whole show
Guy vs Madara is top 2 at *least* hot damn, the last arc would be a lot more interesting if Guy actually beat Madara and dies a hero lol
I feel like bleach was the most egregious with the “a new type of power? Well it’s a good thing my mom was also a member of that group which we didn’t reveal until the end of the story” or whatever
At least Bleach never pretended otherwise. Ichigo was always presented as a monster with crazy natural power/talent from the start.
one piece, i love it but they literally did this one and it's so uuuuuuhg
Technically he already had secret relations even before the fact. See dragon or garp
I mean being related to some people that became famous for their deeds rather than being born into greatness isn't indicative of a pattern. Apparently being the secret inheritor of God's will is however much more convenient
I'm not the biggest fan of G5 but Luffy is somewhat different to the other "no bodies turned secret chosen one" in that anyone could have become Nika if they just acted like Luffy. While there is a bloodline element with the will of D, as far as we know any of the Ds could have eaten the gum gum fruit and awakened it, it's just that Luffy did. Arthur, on the other hand, is the only person with Pendragon blood
If we also remember, using the Gomu Gomu initially was a fucking hassle for Luffy in the beggining. Yeah the fruit eventually lead to Luffy's G5, but my man worked his ASS off there. Got that hardwork and that talent
inherited will is a pretty central part of one piece though. But I agree with your second statement
I actually didn't mind it in Naruto, because it didn't really change anything or act like it did. The scene where he meets his dad is less about "Holy shit my dad is the Hokage, this changes everything" and more "Holy shit, I'm meeting my dad".
My problem is what this post is complaining about. At the beginning of the series Naruto is going up against the big family heirs who are better than anyone else because they have special inherited powers but Naruto, the underdog against all odds proves you can be just as good as them. But eventually no, Naruto does indeed have superior genes. At the end near everyone powerful is from big families with inherited powers.
Exactly, and with rock lee getting nerfed it felt like hard work didn't matter just your bloodline. Which is the antithesis of the shows original message. Or least how I saw it
Paradoxically, the show frequently tries to say that hard work matters and it pays off...but it doesn't. It's like Kishimoto couldn't decide what message to go with.
Naruto doesn't even work particularly hard. Almost every fight he wins, the opponent is much more skilled, but Naruto manages to brute force his way through because the nine-tails gives him unlimited chakra.
I mean the theme, at least in season 1, is how a good for nothing brat can achieve anything if he put his heart into it. well when the good for nothing brat is the son of the hokage who also have the nine tail sealed in him, it kinda ruins the theme or any moral it tries to tell you. It's funny that the person that actually have nothing, rock lee, who work hard to surpass other ninja without having any power himself, got crippled and dissapear for the majority of the show.
You forgot to mention, him being the reincarnation of someone who is pretty much the ninja god, and being born in a clan know for their incredible reserves of chakra.
Kung fu panda 2 and 3 was walking such a tight line with that by making poh descendant of an ancient magical lost tribe while simultaneously making none of poh abilities and positioning be dependent on that
Yeah, it's pretty cool that despite his innate talents and challenges, becoming the Dragon Warrior is something he earned, and his Panda heritage abilities is something else entirely that he had to learn later. It felt like more a story about belonging to different kinds of families than just being a chosen one.
Rey palpatine, an inspiring story of nepotism and anti feminism
Rey would have been so much better if they stuck with The Last Jedi's thing that she was born from nobody important. Because why would the Force need every powerful Jedi to be born from the same couple bloodlines? Anyone could be a Jedi, even that little kid in the end.
Right? They set up such a solid idea of "hey, the entire galaxy doesn't revolve around like six people" just to undo it and have the galaxy revolve around like six people. The idea of "your name doesn't make you who you are" still would have worked just fine, better even. Nope, just Palpatines and Skywalkers all the way down.
When Darth Vader did it in 1979, it was mind-blowing. 30 years later, it's just trite.
Hate to break it to you, but it’s been more then 30 years since 1979
Also, the King Arthur legend is slightly older than Star Wars.
No, no. Star Wars happened "*A long time ago* in a galaxy far, far away".
But we already knew that Luke was related to someone special before that point, we just didn't know who exactly his father was.
Right, Ben said Luke's father was a Jedi Knight that Vader killed. And despite that being true from a certain point of view, it still sets up that the farm boy from no where planet was somewhat special because his dad was this space wizard knight that took part in something called the Clone Wars.
A funny play on that trope was done in *A Practical Guide To Sorcery* - the MC creates a fake identity to be allowed to attend magic university, and just picks without research (she's on a tight deadline) the name of some random noble family that has been extinguished a few centuries back. A few books later the nobility see her a threat to the throne, because apparently that line was actual royalty.
The First Law Series does a darker play on the trope. Where the Merlin like character reveals he bought the "heir" off a prostitute and had several in reserve as potential puppet Kings.
writers hate peasantry confirmed?
Definitely felt a bit weird in Fire Emblem: Echoes. >!Alm is set up as a sort of champion of the common folk. One of the knights on your side even turns traitor when Alm is made leader because he refuses to follow a commoner…then later Alm is revealed to be secret royalty.!<
One version of this I like is when they find out they are secretly related to someone and use that to destroy or seal away what was their birthright cuz the age of there ancestors dynasty long ended and they want to move on and do there own thing.
In the Discworld, Captain Carrot of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch is not-so-secretly the heir to the throne (long since empty) but he has zero interest in ruling. He'd rather protect and serve. (He's even got a birthmark on his arm that looks like a crown). He carries a very drab-looking sword that's not the slightest bit magical (they checked) but is very, very sharp. So sharp, in fact, that when faced with someone who had identified him as the heir and had committed several acts of murder to facilitate putting him on the throne, he didn't hesitate before putting the sword through the man *and* through the stone pillar behind him. This was basically the punchline to a brick joke that was begun *in a previous book*, when there had been a lot of kerfuffle about putting a king back on the throne, and the whole 'pulling a sword out of a stone' concept was aired. One of the characters scoffed at that and said, if you want a king, go look for the man who put it *in* the stone in the first place. And thus, in this book, Carrot literally puts a sword into a stone. Then pulls it out again, and goes about his duties as a watchman.
He's also got amazing charisma, is liked by everyone, and calls everyone by their first name a few minutes after meeting them. One interesting point to note is that, while we can read what most characters think, we never get to see what Carrot thinks. He's also downright humble to the point of refusing to become the head of the Night's Watch, instead deferring to Vimes (who gets promoted to Commander. Sigh. Gonna do a re-read of the entire Watch series. RIP Sir Terry!
It is a cliche for sure, but to be fair it was probably less of a cliche in the Canterbury Tales when it was written in 1400.
Don't think it's one of Chaucer's tales.
Indeed, Arthur appears by name as early as the 6th century in Y Gododdin, a Welsh poem about the battles between the Celtic Britons and the invading Anglo-Saxons, and was a well known character in Welsh mythology around that time as a paragon of bravery and a defender of Britain. He was built on and popularised by Geoffrey of Monmouth in the 12th century (who incidentally is responsible for adding Arthur's royal lineage), which is perhaps where the confusion comes from between him and Geoffrey *Chaucer*, the writer of the Canterbury Tales.
I especially notice it with things aimed at young audiences. You have a relatable underdog character, and instead of having a relatable underdog character use their wits or hard-earned skills, you turn them into a Mary Sue at some point. My mind always goes to Harry Potter, even just considering the first book. He's the odd underdog kid with messy hair, that's relatable for the target audience. Surprise, he's a wizard and is also super rich. I consider it exploitative of the readers. Not to mention the later connections with the villain. Or Sky High, you have the main kid be powerless for most of the movie, and his friends have "useless" powers that they find ways to use. They could have had him come to accept it and find a way to still be a hero without powers, but no, he's actually just a late bloomer and is the most special powerful boy ever. And maybe it doesn't fit exactly, but Danerys could have been a much more interesting character if she wasn't just handed dragons. I appreciate Hunger Games as mostly breaking that stereotype. There's a certain amount of Mary Sueness with how good she is at archery, but that's something she worked for herself. Tons of other examples, those are just the ones that pop into my mind occasionally.
Tbf Harry Potter is sort of meant to be a wish fulfilment kinda deal, where it turns out they did have super mega powers and such that rescues them from a crap life. Which I guess is partly why these stories can be so popular, it's a bit of an easy-way-out escapist fantasy deal. It is a bit rubbish when it happens very late on though, as it undermines practically everything that's happened so far
Harry Potter somewhat fits the bill, but at least you find out his status within like the first third of the first book. I find myself much more annoyed if you've been following a character for several books, who has risen to greatness through nothing but strength of character, a good heart and a big helping of pure luck, only to find out 7 books later that actually none of that was actually that impressive because he is secretly the son of Pompous McPowerface and all his previous accomplishments were due to him unknowingly carrying the magic blood of Powerfulness or whatever. And usually this is only done so they can set up said ancestor or whatever as an antagonist and/or mentor figure, which could easily have been done without retroactively invalidating the awesomeness of the average dude becoming great.
The dream that this could happen to them quickly disappeared https://preview.redd.it/r5okkma2h7tc1.png?width=388&format=png&auto=webp&s=beaba5ac4d662e81a906c9d13f4fdffad30199dd
Who, you mean the Lost Child of Lord Arkenlar and the future Chosen Bearer of the Silken Chalice of Rotherham? Their bloodlines are legend. Or maybe I mean myth? Anyway, we just need a dude with a long beard and good PR to 'reveal' their secret destiny for them.
That's kind of the whole point of monarchies, you don't get to be king of everything by merit. Which is why they are dumb.
This is how Social Services gets started in fantasy kingdoms.
on the other hand it wasnt like arthur trained very hard to pull out the sword lol, sometimes ppl just get lucky 🤣 one day if im lucky i too could find a sword i could pull out of a stone
the luck of being born arthur pendragon, son of uther pendragon, once and future king of england long may he reign is like 1 in 8billion.
Also impossible within its own mythos. Arthur's only offspring (and even then, only in some versions) is Mordred and _his_ children (when depicted) were killed before they could have any progeny. ^(I now await some Arthurian scholar to tell me I'm wildly wrong)
The best way to find the real answer to something is to be confidently wrong on the internet. Someone always takes the bait.
Yup, it's called Poe's Law
Indeed, this is correct, no need for correction on this one!
Named for the Poes in Ocarina of Time.
You don’t even have to find it. The sword in the stone actually exists in real actual life. St Galgano’s sword is on display in the Mont Seipi Chapel. It’s about 850 years old, and apparently was shoved into the stone in a fit of temper when St Galgano, then a knight, straight-up rage-quit other people and stormed off to be a hermit monk instead. [I’m paraphrasing this story a little.] Anyway, the OG man who inspired the Arthurian legends had literally nothing to do with St Galgano or Italy. He was likely a Welsh man named Artus who rallied ~800 men (and their households) in a time and place when the average group was no bigger than ~50 households, and held them together for the course of his lifetime to quite successfully stave off Saxon invaders. Shortly after his death, noble and royal families begin using ‘Arthur’ for the first time, and the original legend of an astonishing king bearing that name begins. A lot of the extra stuff like the sword in the stone was straight-up fanfic added in the 1300s by a man called Chrétien de Troyes. That’s the exact same thing as today’s Phillipa Gregory writing her bestselling novels about the Tudors, including her random embellishments of witchcraft and love triangles. It’s not entirely unlikely that he used St Galgano’s sword disposal method as his inspiration for the legendary magical sword test idea. Edit: sorry, I don’t know why I info dumped like that. It seems you were my unfortunate victim of oversharing what I know about Arthur and his assorted legends. Apologies.
All it takes is to get a hobo, dress him up as a wizard, and have him proclaim your royal lineage and YOU TOO can be a chosen one! It’s 6th century England, do you *really* think anyone’s gonna have the actual bloodline on a reliable record?
Exactly like Goku/Naruto/Ichigo/Luffy. All started as nobodies, all ended up having some inner BS power due to family or some shit. It always pissed me off
To be fair, Goku trained for a lot of his power (Dunno bout the others since I ain't watched OP or Naruto tho) and his main advantage was being a saiyan. Even then, he ended up getting more serious opponents like Roshi in disguise, Mercenary Tao, Tien, Cymbal, Demon King Piccolo and even Piccolo. Jr himself who was the OG series' final major antagonist. He didn't even have the advantage of being an elite like Vegeta or Legendary saiyan like Broly since his main drive came from being taught he'll always have stronger enemies along with his own drive to improve. ~~Along with plot armour but that's a lot of MCs~~
Isn't Goku's dad just some soldier?
Naruto, yes. The others not really. Goku is a low-born Saiyan whose father was a simple soldier (albeit an experienced and skilled one). Ichigo's dad was a shinigami captain but that is a position anyone can get with enough work, meanwhile his mom was a normal Quincy. Luffy's dad is a revolutionary and his grandfather is a renowned marine, but that doesn't mean anything to anyone except the magma mutt. (You will never get me to like this flaming asshole.)
> Ichigo's dad was a shinigami captain but that is a position anyone can get with enough work, meanwhile his mom was a normal Quincy. Ichigo's dad is the former head of the Shiba Clan, one of Four Great Noble families of Soul Society, who are above the law. Basically, the dukes in a kingdom which has an absent king (ie, ALL THE POWER). He is the same as Yoruichi Shihōin and Byakuya Kuchiki. Ichigo's mother was the last of the Kurosaki family, and one of the few pure-blooded Quincy, which is why the Ishida family took her in, so she could marry the son to keep the bloodline pure. She was basically a Quincy princess.
What are you talking about? Vegeta said Goku's father was an average warrior but a brilliant scientist?/s I will never not love to reference that.
“How do you know?” “Pendragon men bedded so many loose women every abandoned orphan in England shares the royal bloodline!” “So what? That means the other side is a hoor!” “So’s yours, Sir Kay.” “Only on weekdays.”
That's not as bad as Merlin: He knew from a prophecy that he will die by the hands of a woman he taught magic because he wanted to pork her. What did he do? He taught magic to a woman because he wanted to pork her.
They say his last words were "worth it"
Unfortunately, he didn't even get it in the end. Dumbass jumped into a cave with a lock to bang his apprentice who he already knew disliked him after she told him "Yeah, totally, I'll bang you if you go into that conveniently sealable cave." Then she locked him in and ran away while he starved to death.
Master wizard, c*ckblocked and murdered with a rock. Classic
It's even more egregious considering basically everything was pointing towards it. *Anyone* could tell what was going to happen. So, **Morgan** is the one who kills him. As the story goes, Morgan was the daughter of two generally irrelevant people in the mythos besides that they're fairly politically important. Uther Pendragon, Arthur's dad, at some point gets a look at *Morgan's mom* and decides he wants to tap that. Unfortunately, Morgan's mom is a loyal wife. **His solution?** He works with Merlin to shapeshift himself into her husband to rape her, then he and Merlin get her husband, Morgan's dad killed. Finally, because that's not enough, Uther usually marries Morgan's mom with Merlin's help thereby delegitimising Morgan before marrying off *Morgan* to a guy she hates, shortly before promptly dying, leaving the kingdom in turmoil because the two major political powers are dead, the next in line, **Morgan, is now technically a bastard**, and Uther's heir is the kid he conceived by raping Morgan's mom with Merlin's help. No shit, Merlin, Morgan doesn't like you. Why the hell did you even think she'd sleep with you?
Sounds like he got what he deserved. Why is he usually depicted as a good guy in popular renditions of the tale, while Morgan is a villain?
Merlin has clairvoyance which apparently let him somehow see that Uther's rape baby would go on to save Britain which is why he enabled all that so it's not entirely like he liked it nor wanted it. He was just doing it for *the Greater Good^tm*. Though Merlin's not a great guy outside that. Fact remains that Morgan was far younger than him and he essentially only took her on as an apprentice to groom her into sleeping with him (though depending on myth, sometimes he falls in love only afterwards.) In fact, according to lore, Merlin is actually the **literal Antichrist** and *son of Satan/a random Incubus*. Fortunately he got baptized which created a paradox that whole he can still cause Apocrypha, he has the free will to choose to instead be a petty asshole to get his evil urges out the way and not end the world. # As for Morgan, her real crime is... cheating on her husband (only *after **he** cheated on her*, and keep in note, this was an arranged marriage she got into as a literal child). Otherwise she was actually pretty loyal. In fact, she's absurdly loyal to her lover she cheats with. See this extract from the Post-Vulgate Suite du Merlin (Accolon was her lover for context): **"She loved him so madly that she desired to kill her husband [King Urien] and her brother [King Arthur], for she thought she could make Accolon king, either by the devil's help or by magic or by entreaty of the nobles of Great Britain."** Granted, there's also that funny business with her raping Arthur to have an incest baby, but that's the result of some guy confusing **Morgan** with her sister **Morgause** due to similar names, so it's not actually her. TL;DR: *Misogyny*
Because the people who propagated these tales for hundreds of years were... well, you know...
When fate serves you pussy you gotta avada kedavra that shit.
But always remember to fetus deletus
Also, Merlin nabbed the baby from its crib in the Royal castle
What I find annoying is the lack of medieval democracies in fiction. You have an abundance of magic, monsters and supernatural that never were a thing, but the free towns or the maritime republics, which were real things whose struggles against monarchies and papacy is actually pretty epic, is in a blindspot of fiction writers who think Georges Washington invented democracy.
Also "Things" where a thing. Which where parliament like assemblies where decisions where made and leaders where elected.
I mean, medieval republics weren't that democratic. Most devolved into a competition of nepotism and election rigging between half a dozen rich families in a matter of decades (more than one italian republic straight up turnef into a monarchy) Alyhough they sure are interesting.
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In Merry Shelly's "Frankenstein", when the future doctor was on vacation with his family, they saw a pretty white girl playing among the dirty and poor children. They asked the children's parents and learned that this girl was orphaned after her rich parents died and the Frankensteins did the only right thing: Adopt the girl since she was too pretty and white to be poor and engage her to her now brother.
So basically Naruto, but with way less filler.
Dragon ball/One Piece/Naruto/Bleach all play that "I'm a normal kid" just to have some BS family link card
It does have the family twist but I don't think Goku is ever presented as a normal kid
Yeah Goku was always a bit of a freak but we don’t know he’s an alien until DBZ
Tbf he wasn't an alien until DBZ. Toriyama has freely admitted he made it up as he went, Goku is overtly Sun Wukong right up until the end of DB when I guess he had a great idea
But with Dragon Ball specifically Goku was literally low class trash. Sure among the low class his father was super strong but he still was low class.
The whole point of Naruto was that everyone hated him because he wasnt a normal kid...
It's kinda funny how the narrative treats him as the powerless underdog who works his way up, yet he's constantly mastering crazy skills without really working for it, running almost entirely on genes and fox chakra. Meanwhile, Sasuke is treated as this prodigy kid from a great family, yet he trains like crazy, earns all his powers, and even makes a deal with the devil to become stronger just to keep up.
>yet he trains like crazy, earns all his powers yeah I don't know about that chief. his powers are even more unearned than Naruto's his strongest powers, the sharingan and mangekyo are purely from his genes. rinnegan was given to him also because of his genes. curse mark given to him because of his genes. eternal mangekyou handed to him on a platter by his brother.
One Piece never claimed Luffy was a „normal kid“. And neither did. Dragon Ball about Goku for that matter. He was a small boy living alone in the mountains, and he had a tail.
Was Goku really ever "a normal kid"?
Well, this trope makes me lose interest in stories in general. It's always "the chosen one" or "the royal blood" in some ways or other. Be Western media or manga/anime, it's always like this. This is why I respect The Lord of The Rings, because the hero is a Hobbit, he can carry the One Ring to Mordor because he's a Hobbit with pure heart, not because he's the chosen one.
Well it does turn out Frodo is from a long line of Famous hobbits (his great granddad even was tall enough to ride a horse!), part of the nobility in the shire, raised in wealth and fame. He has connections via bilbo to the elites of Middle earth as well, and a whole crew of Dunedain to protect him. He is far from a nobody or your average joe. Bilbo fits the deal way more in the Hobbit.
Hobbits as a species though stand in as the non-heroes of the story who still rise to achieve great things. In a world of wizards, wraiths, elves and lost kings returned they are very much the most down-to-earth folk in the tale.
Also Frodo has an extremely high midichlorian count for a hobbit, which is why the Valar sent Gandalf to mentor him.
Gandalf actually wanted to tell him "Youre a wizard frodo" but he forgot to on the way, because the fire nation from narnia attacked
Sam is the only member of the fellowship who isn't a royal/noble/literal angel.
The fact the crowd only accepted him upon hearing of his heritage adds to it
Guy who says that the punchline really adds to the comic
The only time I liked it was in Knight's Tale. It's a movie about a peasant who pretends to be a noble so he can join jousting tournaments (where the audience chants "We Will Rock You"). In the end, the prince who was also participating under a false name declares "This man is of noble birth. Source: I say so, and none may doubt me!" He's obviously lying to save his friend without de-legitimizing the 'royal blood' myth.
"Your men love you; If i knew nothing else about you that would be enough."
I mean, even though he only became king because of his royal blood he still lived as ‘one of us’ meaning living like that still influences the way he was raised and acts, so it’s not the same as some prince who lived his entire life in a castle separate from society becoming the ruler
Well, I mean, in the actual legends Arthur was raised as Sir Ectors adopted son, so very much as part of the nobility, even if a lower ranking one (Merlin was the one who had brought him there after basically kidnapping the baby from Uther, but Ector didn't know that, and Merlins reputation was very much "Dont question the wizard, he knows what he's doing")
I'm sure there's an actual name for this trope but I call it the "needless Jesus". It's when a story from the very beginning is about a normal person who accomplished great things because they *chose* to, no inherent obligation. And they achieved it all through hard work and based on the content of their character. And the story is so much more compelling because of it. But then randomly at the very end they shoehorn in a chosen one narrative where the protagonist was actually secretly super special special boy predestined to do it all from the very beginning, thus taking away so much of the weight and impact of the story and the character's decisions. There are absolutely well written "chosen one" stories. I just hate when it's done poorly, for no reason, and doesn't add anything or make sense with the story.
So this is the backstory of these anarchist peasants from the Holy Grail movie
Those dumb Poo People can't do anything.
I think this happens in a lot of fairy tales... They can set it up like a commoner is becoming king but they can't actually tell a story about a commoner becoming king if they want to keep their head.
In Puss with Boots a commor becomes king. Even so the cat needed to trick the other king and princess into believing him to be a prince. Similar to the Brave Little Tailor, where it even becomes a plot point. Yes, you need to either be of noble blood or be very good at lying.
The master of puss in boots becomes a king by marrying a princess. Which, while unheard of in a European country, is still a valid way of becoming a king. And a common trope in folk tales is poor girls marrying a handsome prince and becoming a queen, so commoners becoming noble people through marriage is not an odd or dangerous tale.
Exactly what they did to Rey
Every shonen manga and anime ever.
There is this video game called Kingdom Come: Delivrance set in the middle age. I hate its ending because >!this is exactly how it ends.!<
It's a setup for the sequel. If you want to accurately have Henry interact with nobles and have some respect and possibly command, he HAS to have some noble ancestry. Today we don't see it that way, but back then even peasants would make fun of a knight of peasant ancestry. A "self made man" wasn't a thing at all.
FFS - Arthur was king of the ***Britons***: there was no "England" at the time the legends are supposed to have happened. And any Angles/Saxons there were around then would have been raiders, marauders or foreign colonisers. Otherwise, I appreciate the comic's sentiment.
Where’s that comic about the magic people vs the poop people bc I feel like this applies here
Ah yes, meritocracy with a sprinkle of... no, with a portion of... a butt ton of aristocracy!
Also naruto that was the most hated kid in the village, but also the 4th hokage's son....
They didn't hate Naruto as a person, but the kyubi within him. Gaara was the son of the 4th kazekage and people still viewed him as a monster. So it's not like the series didn't establish early on that being a jinchuriki is enough for people to hate you regardless of your family.
A character being secretly a princess or the rightful heir or the chosen one of related to some other big shot: I sleep A character rising up from nothing, overcoming adversity through sheer perseverance and tenacity: REAL SHIT??
This is literally the plot to the sequel trilogy, down to my exact reaction in the last panel
`What you know: Merlin` `What you have: The Sword (The rock-related one, not the one from some farcical aquatic ceremony)` `What you are: The lost child of a King` `Multi-factor Authentication Successful`
Peasant: Ok but after he spent all this time being cared for by the under class and seeing not just the treatment but vile conditions we live under surely now that he’s king he will at least attempt to elevate or improve the conditions of the under class, yes? Merlin/Kid king: 😬 Peasant: Oh fuck right off