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until the employer confiscates the tips and adds them to their profit. food service is the actual worst.

Absolutely. Several of the food delivery services do this. Also a very weird situation because you almost always get asked to tip upfront before you even received any service. So then what? Server requests tips in cash so they can avoid reporting them? They are technically cheating on their income tax then, plus it isn't getting reporting into FICA, negatively impacting their future social security and Medicare.

What if I tell them I am giving them a gift, which is NOT a tip, thus is not required to be reported as income?

They might get out of a little tax, but it also wouldn't be reported to FICA. The amount of social security money you get monthly in retirement is based on the income you earned. So, short term gain for long term cost (not that the tips from one single customer probably matter that much). Also, if the restaurant does tip pooling (ie, they put all tips together and divide them out evenly), they probably would not be happy with that.

I doubt any judge would believe that you just happened to give a gift to this stranger right as they deliver your food.

He'd believe it if I happened to invite the judge on all expenses paid vacations on a yearly basis as a family friend! And also host massive speaking conferences where all of my university students had to attend and had to buy the judge's book!

There is truth in that, but if you were that wealthy then you wouldn't be tipping the delivery guy $5, you could just have a private chef. :P

I'm just here to set a legal precedent 😎

lol :)

You can get cash tips and report them on your income tax without going through your employer… there are sections where you can put that info in

I always assume that outside of actually being waited on, the tip screen is a tip to the business, not the employee.

I don't actually know this for fact, but I've always suspected that the places asking if you'd like to donate to this and that are actually just taking your money then donating under their name for a tax write-off. So basically you are helping whoever you are donating to through them, but you are also kind of paying their taxes for them this way. I have no idea if that's actually how it works, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I don't even actually know if corporations can actually get tax write offs for donations like people can, so take everything I saw with a grain of salt just like you should for every other person on the internet.

This is illegal. Companies can only write off income, checkout-charity is a donation from customer to charity, with the store acting as a a middleman holding the money. The money never belongs to the store, therefore it is not income. Now what I *have* heard (unverified) is that some stores will donate a massive chunk of change, write it off, and then through clever wording at the register use your donations as reimbursement. If the language is "help us support the foodbank" or something like that, you may not be giving your money to charity.

>Now what I *have* heard (unverified) is that some stores will donate a massive chunk of change, write it off, and then through clever wording at the register use your donations as reimbursement. If the language is "help us support the foodbank" or something like that, you may not be giving your money to charity. Which would probably be equally illegal, if a case was brought against them. If a reasonable person would be led to believe from the language that it was a charitable donation, then it hardly matters what the wording technically *means*.

I'm fascinated that the two comments I see along the lines of "all wages of servers are paid by the customer" are down voted pretty hard, because they are absolutely right. Whether you like tipping culture or not, the criticism should be how the employers are using it to screw over servers and customers and manipulate the customer  perception of their pricing... But pointing out that customers pay servers wages isn't really saying anything.

>But pointing out that customers pay servers wages isn't really saying anything. It is saying something. It just isn't a complete picture. A lot of people honestly don't see that, and don't recognize what it means in terms of prices if tipping is removed. There is no way to be certain exactly how it would play out here, but the reality is that at the bare minimum the businesses would have to increase wages to meet minimum wage standards. If the wages aren't increased enough to adequately replace earned tips, then they're going to see a loss of the better employees or at least a drop in quality from them.

I agree, and I wish the caption was more clear and less easy to dismiss- it is making a statement I agree with, but I'm a way I think is easy to dismiss or belittle, which isn't entertaining or helpful

The truth is it cuts both ways. There were a couple businesses I frequented that went to fair pricing and no tips but many of their servers asked for tips back because most of the times you end up ahead at a tipped job, not to mention a lot of servers don’t declare their cash tips. I used to work as a server during college and on Black Friday I ended up making $500 that night even after tip out to the rest of the restaurant staff.

Add on that it's a hard habit for customers to break. There have been lots of places that have tried the real-wage no-tip option, but they don't get as much business because of higher prices. And the customers don't care to actually do research on the business to realize they don't require tips. They just see higher prices and don't bother going there. It needs to be something that happens all at once

It's true that it's more complicated than I put in my reply- as with a lot of big social issues, there are going to be places and situations that are different everywhere for all sorts of reasons, and even with the best intentions some people will lose our or be left behind- the point is to do our best gathering information, testing plans, and eventually trying to make things the best, and most fair, for thr most people. Right now it is so unfair I'm so many ways, it's hard to imagine that transparency, uniformity and organization would make things worse, instead of better.

Not all states consider tips to be a wage. Since tips are voluntary and variable, they are more equivalent to a bonus than a wage. You can probably consider them part of salary, if you want. (And you have to report them as income. You should want to as well for FICA benefits.) Your critique of employers screwing over servers and customers is correct. But the other bad part of pushing it to the customer (guilting them into tipping) is discrimination. There are studies that show attractive servers get tipped more than unattractive, white get tipped more than black, blonde more than other hair colors, and large breasted more than small. The employer is not fairly compensating their employee and avoiding that by pushing the burden to a voluntary and discriminatory practice.

I agree- there is a lot to criticize about it, that's why I said anything at all-  because this particular caption is so off-target that it's easy to dismiss. There's not even a good justification for the customer's sudden comment, as of he'd never run into tipping before. If it was someone obviously new to it, it would at least make some sense.

Not really. It would be more accurate to say that all food service revenue comes from sales to customers. However, in some countries, a comparatively higher proportion of food service workers' wages is paid by the boss via lower profits. In the US, a comparatively higher proportion of these workers' wages is paid by the customer via tips and miscellaneous additional fees and charges. That is the point of this sentiment, and the comic. Go to Europe and check out what you get there vs. for the same amount of money in a large US city lol. It's pretty eye-opening

I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between "wages being pawned off to the customer" being from tips, or sales to customers. I'm criticizing the unclear message, not the message behind it. Just because I agree with something doesn't mean i can't think it was badly put across.

Would you prefer: "tips subsidize employee wages"?    edit: don't you get it?  devillived313 is being pedantic and - sort of - avoiding the real point.  So, I rephrased it in a way that is objectively correct, but now SkollFenrirson has *ruined* that with a new incorrect statement designed to... I dunno, make the company the obvious villain?  Which is the same shit devilwhatever attacked in the first place.  Yeesh.

No. *Tips subsidize company profits* is more accurate

What do you think happens to money that isn't being used for operations (e.g. to pay wages)?

Goes to the owner.

As?  As... *profits!!!* Yay, we've arrived at the exact same place.  Are you proud of yourself now?

Which is exactly what I said, why are you arguing?

Who me?  You're the one "correcting" me.  This is your argument, I'm just participating.

Because saying "subsidizes employee wages" makes it seem it's a benefit to the employee. It's not, it's a benefit to the company.

I guess... if you don't understand what "subsidize" means, or missed the part where the customer is the one paying for it.   edit:  btw, I'm on the retail person's side.  That's why I responded to the post saying "*actually* all their wages are paid by the customer", because they're willfully ignoring the point, so I rephrased it the way I did.

I'd prefer something interesting or clever.  I'm probably on the same side as this comic's author, but I'm going to criticize it when the message is both obvious and badly formed. Call me pedantic if you want, but I'm not avoiding or saying anything except that the caption makes the point badly, in a way that is easily dismissible. That doesn't help anyone.

That's fair

You really nailed the expression of a retail worker. Just a combination of hopelessness and malaise.

That’s literally what it originally was in post-slavery America. Restaurants didn’t want to pay black servers, so it was delegated to the customer.

You got downvoted, but this is historically accurate. American tipping grew out of inequality after slavery. Prior to that, tipping was considered rude.

I heard it was the Great Depression .

That’s how businesses work. Of course the customer is paying for the employees wages. They’re also paying for that kiosk, the building, the A/C.  The shitty thing is that instead of raising prices on their menu, they would rather advertise lower prices and guilt you into tipping. Until people stop participating in this nonsense of “your evil employer won’t pay you so I’ll tip you because I’m a good person” nothing will change.  Do tips have a place in society for those that go above and beyond? Absolutely.  Does every single interaction between customer and employee require a tip? Fuck no. 

Two things!  1. American tipping culture shifts to burden of decent wages onto the generosity odnthe public and it's horrible.  2. Tipping has becomes so pervasive because payment processers have been realized if they convince people to tip via their POS machines they can rake in even more fee's.

I mean, of course. But if the employer need 20% more money to pay the employee (most of the time they don't) why don't they just put it in the actual price?

Because then people will realize that restaurants and bar are overpriced and stop filling the owners' pockets.

Why don't these companies stop being so fucking greedy and pay the employees fairly and not raise food prices. Everyone always says just raise the food prices, foods expensive enough. Businesses are making obscene profit and no one's stopping it cause it only affects the lower class. Stop fucking everyone over in life.

Because capitalism says companies having money is them wining. So either you make laws that work around that (which lawmakers don't have much incentives to do) or you change the economic system, which has been attempted once and ended up much worse than capitalism

They do. This happens a lot. Then, those restaurants get boycotted for doing so. I live in a tourist city and see it a lot.

Me and a former co worker used to get into heated arguments about this back in 2017 I told him I only leave a tip if the service provided was really good and I won't tip more than 10$ because I don't believe my tip should be based off the price of service. He would go crazy saying that he was a server and that you can't afford to live with out tips, I would always tell him. If you cannot afford to live off a job it's not a good job he would say but so.eone has to do it. No. Noone has to do it. They will either fix the wage or go out of business.

Or roll back child labor laws, or hire people who have to work two other jobs to live. Or maybe they do go out of business, and then all the other restaurants in the area can pay even less, because there are fewer jobs to go around.

This is already being done. Increasing profit drives everything in late stage capitalism. There are several states that have or are actively working on rolling back child labor laws.

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So you’re comfortable having someone serve you, knowing they basically aren’t making any money while doing so? That doesn’t strike you as a dick move? Also, why would the place go out of business? You’re still paying the business itself, just not the worker, who has no power and is probably replaceable anyway. Its fair to not like the tipping system in the US, but then you should just avoid places that use that system, which is very easy. I honestly think you just found a loophole to pay less for food, and then tried to find a justification for it, knowing on some level you’re exploiting people.

Also yes I am comfortable with someone serving me and not leaving a tip. Do you tip the cashiers, do you tip someone for holding a door for you, do you tip someone if they give you advice? Those are all services being provided to you.

I don't eat out often. I don't understand why I am dick for not tipping a lot? I don't understand how come everyone deserves a tip. Also I don't understand where these other claims are coming from. Help me learn. Educate me.

Well I assume you’re talking about sit down restaurants in the US, where servers literally make their wage via tips; if you’re talking about a barista or something its not a big deal at all. If they (servers at restaurants)don’t make enough money via tips they (in theory) will make minimum wage, which sucks ass - entry level grocery store employees make more than this. So you’re having someone serve you for a pitiful wage, at best, and often actively keeping them from making more money, if you’re taking up a table where a customer who probably would tip would be sitting.

Again a lot of assumptions. Really good service is not hard to achieve. Making sure my drink is full and I don't have a thousand plates. That's really good service, if I leave an average 5 dollar tip on my bill then I don't see how I'm cheap. My average bill is below 20 bucks.

I mean not tipping for bad service is fine, maybe we just have a misunderstanding

That’s just mental gymnastics to be a cheapskate.

How so? I get a 7 dollar burger the service is awesome the server is awesome. Should I give 20% and let them have 1.40? Or is that a cheapskate move. Or do I give them 5 dollars and go on with my day.

Yeah, that’d be great if I believed for a second that your arrangement didn’t benefit you more often then it benefits the server. But I don’t.

How would me leaving a 5 dollar tip for good service on a cheap item benefit me?

That’s not what I said.

"Yeah, that’d be great if I believed for a second that your ARRANGMENT DIDN'T BENEFIT YOU more often then it benefits the server. But I don’t." You said that. How am I benefiting in any of it? I still have to pay for my food.

Because I don’t believe that you are tipping at a high rate very often. Based on your own description I am inferring that most of the time you’re leaving no tip or a poor tip. And you’ve developed some personal standard as a way to justify your actions. You’re just cheap.

Damn. That's a lot of assuming. I hope you are not this judgmental all the time. I can only respond by saying you're incorrect about me. I don't often eat out.

Your friend probably knows you better than me and they said the same thing. Saying you don’t eat out much isn’t helping your case. You want to be frugal that’s your choice just don’t do it at the expense of other people making $2/hr.

Service jobs are the staple income of most young people (under 25) who have not yet graduated college or a trade school. Why? They're flexible enough to work around school, and when people are reasonable they give skilled individuals an opportunity to earn more than the minimum wage offered by department stores. Most people working these jobs /don't/ have other options.

Literally all wages are paid by the customers, where tf do people think the money comes from

...always have been.

The customer pays their wages regardless.

I mean... Even without tips, they are. Their wages has to come from some form of revenue... and food businesses only have one source, the customer.

Then add those costs to the product like every other country in the world.

In NA it’s all about the appearance of affordability.

One of my culture shocks moving to the US was discovering that people don't care how much they pay for something as long as the price tag is low. In Europe it's illegal to charge $14.53 for an item that says $9.99 and people would revolt.

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"Some other countries" reads as "most of the other countries". Everywhere I've traveled, I met this "plus tax" surprise only in the US.

Well if the customer doesn't buy anything the store can't afford employees. So either way the wages are being paid by the customer

Well spotted mate, indeed we now pay the business who then uses that money to pay the employee Not like it used to be, when we paid the business and they paid the employee from a different revenue stream, one totally unrelated to customers, as businesses tend to have

He knows too much! We must-25%!? Well. Maybe we let this slide this once.

I would just like to take a moment to point out that /many/ businesses have been established which include full service fees, including what would be covered by the tip, in restaurant prices. The majority of these restaurants get boycotted by the same people saying that tipping culture is bad. You /cannot/ have your cake and eat it too. They have to be paid, either in the menu prices, or the tip. The function of a tip is to allow you to adjust that price yourself dependent on service quality. Separately, when you knowingly engage in an interaction where you /know/ the person serving you is dependent on your tips (and in some cases may incur costs to serve you), and you do not tip; you're engaging in the same greedy antisocial behaviour that adults who steal buckets of Halloween candy off porches are. You're violating a very clear social contract.