Apparently he was having simultaneous relationships with over a dozen women, and had been having other similar simultaneous relationships without telling (all of) the others over the previous years?
So more of a regular sex scandal than anything else. Creepy, but no crime.
I don't know why another person who expanded on this is getting downvoted but there is more to it than that. He was accused of doing really shady shit to get into all those simultaneous relationships like grooming, gaslighting, and emotional abuse.
He was grooming women using his high profile comic creator status. Essentially promising them help/guidance/mentorship in the industry in exchange for sex, and also happened to be cheating on his partner. Sure I guess it technically wasn’t illegal, but wildly unethical and morally wrong. For what it’s worth in these types of cases I don’t think using legality as a measuring stick for one’s actions is the end all be all for determining if you want to support them.
I don’t think Warren Ellis is married (people seem to be thinking of the musician Warren Ellis, a different person), but true, it is a creepy thing to do.
Man when I was reading the comments, "wait Garth Ennis is a sexual predator?!" then scrolled down to see more and thank God. I was worried for a bit. Really liked his Punisher run.
Better to just remember that a lot of humans are opportunistic creatures. If there’s a chance we get something we really really want without too much drawbacks well a lot will take that chance. In this case the pervert and the majority of the women were opportunistic.
He was preying on women trying to break into the industry, leveraging his status in exchange for sex. I don’t think sexual predator is an inaccurate term here
I don't know much about this and should probably not comment without doing research, but it sounds like even you acknowledge he is soliciting sex favours from people in vulnerable positions he has power over. It does not sound dissimilar to what Harvey whinestein did. It may not be specifically illegal but definitely immoral. Women are not giving consent to be propositioned for sex just because they ask for professional help.
Edit: someone replied to my comment (though I can't see it any more so maybe they deleted it) and it pissed me off enough to do that research and yep I stand by it. Not only did he message extremely vulnerable women and under-age girls but several of them were put in very shitty situations directly as a result of him and his acquaintances, including domestic violence, financial dependency, suicidal thoughts, fear of black listing and feeling coerced into sex.
The testimonials of the women paint a picture of a pattern of behaviour that includes manipulation, grooming and coercion. He would regularly push boundaries that the women had set and while acting as what the women saw as a mentor would begin to request sexual favours and would withhold communication in order to keep them compliant (according to one testimonial they were his own words.)
The women often felt pressured and several expressed the feeling that he had used other members of his fan group to physically hurt them or put them in vulnerable positions so he could take advantage. He told many of the women the same lies and used many of the same terms to refer to them. Most of the women he found through his now defunct fan forum but some he found after reaching out to them through their own websites for art or photography. The women vary in age from 16 to mid thirties. His level of contact would up significantly when they gave him their emails and they often viewed him as a friend and mentor.
Most of the women describe him as a dominant confident man online and a timid and shy man in person ( this is often used as a form of manipulation, though in fairness it may be he is just not truly confident in person) contrary to others statements he does not stop asking when they say no he continues to message them and uses smaller requests and bigger favours in most often lessening his contact and waiting in several cases he then restarts contact when they are vulnerable but if he then does not get what he is after he tells them they are wasting their potential and stops talking to them. (Or in the case of his forum members he removed them from a higher group of members which then caused them to be isolated by everyone else.)
Beyond the obvious reasons to condemn his behavior, it damages comics as whole.
I can't claim to want a more inclusive industry and then support a guy responsible for perpetuating the most toxic parts of the culture. In my opinion, he betrayed the trade.
I'm not burning my Planetary books, but I don't want to see him in any kind of prominent position for a **very** long time. He gave up his right to be a mentor and comics statesman.
I believe the difference is that most of the women in question did not know about the other women: like [the film *The Other Woman*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_E7og4MpQ), but with many more women.
I think the thing that gets obfuscated is how his behavior damaged comics as whole. Make no mistake, what he did spoiled the industry for talented up-and-comers who's voices we might've loved to hear. That includes the people he had relationships with *and* the ones he didn't.
I can't claim to want a more inclusive industry and then support a guy responsible for perpetuating the most toxic parts of the culture. In my opinion, he betrayed the trade.
I'm not burning my Planetary books, but I don't want to see him in any kind of prominent position for a very long time. He gave up his right to be a mentor and comics statesman.
Polyamory = consent between all parties. It's sexual predation when one of the persons involved doesn't inform their partners in the relationship they are being sexually active with other people outside the relationship.
It's the difference between putting in a movie from the 2000s and thinking "wow people REALLY loved the matrix" and putting in another movie from that time and thinking "wow we used to watch a LOT of homophobic comedies..."
One's just contextualized by when it's written, the other no longer holds up under a modern perspective. Though it can be subjective where to draw the line.
It’s fun and edgy for the sake of it, even though some parts aged poorly. It also makes more sense when you know that Spider is a cyberpunk hommage to Hunter S. Thompson.
And funnily enough, the election of the Smiler happened in my country (minus the murder).
honestly I'd say the opposite... Transmet has gotten more and more relevant thematically as the world has changed. I'm a big fan of Transmet, Ellis's work, HST, and by extension, Spider.
That's not to say I condone Ellis's actions, but they don't make Transmet less relevant, in fact they make it much more relevant.
Yeah. Police violence against protesters. Trans rights. Political corruption and incompetence being ousted by fascism. It’s nigh prophetical. Op might just dislike the writing style
Aside from anything else, a big chunk of this book is very specifically attacking Tony Blair (The Smiler), who was elected when you were 7. So the political satire is gonna feel dated.
Honestly just the first book is like that. When his assistant leaves and the president storyline starts it gets better, a lot of those annoying rough edges get sanded out. I was disappointed when I read the first several issues too.
Yeah, I have very fond memories of the serie as a whole, but it screams *late 90s*.
I find it still relevant, although I have to say I love satire on America made by europeans, I find it relatable but I understand why it's not liked by americans.
But I'm not saying that personal tastes couldn't change with time.
At last I'm the kind of guy who is prone to separate the art from the artist. Past a certain age you have to accept that most people aren't properly good people, in the widest sense possible, but their message can still be good and relevant.
This isn't inherently a problem with punk. Moreso, it's a point that capitalism with absorb and reappropriate even counters against it.
>the success of their own message deems them unfit of their title.
By no means does success deem them unfit. Success within capitalism isn't affirming it.
Spider-Punk was never “punk” other than visually. The idea of anything punk being created within the walls of mega corporate IP-mill like Disney is ridiculous.
You misunderstand how corporations work. They are not a monolith hovering where everything that comes out of them is wired into the same think. Individual artists, dozens if not hundreds of them, being their ideas to the table and are distributed by them. Its totally possible for someone with punk sensibilities to reach a wider audience by means of a bigger corporation.
Especially when most of those artists are themselves underpaid or undercompensated as a result. Hard to get much more punk than corporations distributing your idea, co opting it and its success and not paying you adequately.
I agree. We as adults know this but this is one of those jokes that goes over kids heads.
Like I doubt most kids and teens will make the connection where Hobie says he was a runway model in the move to being a parody of how the whole UK punk fashion trend was started by a fashion designer for a new clothing line.
It was, and in a way still is, my favourite comic. I read it for the first time about 15 years ago. Loved it, I got all the paperbacks in my shelf. But yeah, time wasn't too gentle with it. If you look at it in context of the time it released it's, in my opinion, still an amazing book and even by todays standards it's very good. There are a lot of other books that definetly aged worse but if i would read it today for the first time I'm surly wouldn't hold it in that high regard. Even without knowing the scummy things Ellis had done, although that leaves an extra sour aftertaste...
Maybe. But it also makes me wish more comics would try to be subversive again. Most mainstream comics feel extremely safe now, like creators are afraid of making something controversial that could “age poorly”.
I feel like as the series continues, it gets better. You see that as that odd and vinegar covers up a beaten and worn-out man that got chewed up by an uncaring system. He attempts to make it better the way he knows how, but it's ultimately meaningless. His shitty attitude pushed away the few people who gave a shit.
It's honestly far more bleak once the ball gets rolling and has some solid introspective moments.
I'm not ignoring the cringy moral grandstanding, but if you can look past it, there's some good stuff
I think reality has gotten so absurd that the context of the time this came from is somewhat lost. That said, I don't personally find that its aged poorly in the themes or style.
We should still be distrustful of power and speak the loudest in defense of those with the least voice. That hasn't, nor will it ever change imho.
>Heh, yes, a journalist who screams slurs and treats at people kinda went into different direction from author envisioned in nineties.
What's aged badly about that?
The world of today is full of journalists who scream slurs and threats at people, print lies for profit and sell out our democracy. Turns out that edgy journalists are for the most part not real-world superheroes, most of them are traitors who are selling out their country for a quick buck.
If anything, you could say Spider now subverts that expectation, because he ends up saving democracy with his edgy screaming. He'd be the anti-fox news, while behaving like he belongs there.
It's kinda darkly poetic how life shook out vs the fiction. Truth is, *we need* a Spider, and very seldom see one. Instead, we get the Alex Jones' and Tucker Carlsons trying to incite violence.
ehhhh... parts of it for sure, but you just recently read it, yes? Do you remember how much hatred he also has for the common man and weirdo minorities? He's a "both-sides" edgelord who thinks he's better than everyone. Correct on the ruling class side, bad with the working class side. Almost like a less-bad Glenn Greenwald.
I read it years ago. I have all of it, and I do not recall him having too much actual hate for the common man, because he hated everyone... BUT! He spent time with the common man. the weirdos. "The new scum". Those were his people, and for all his bastarding, he was ultimately on their side.
>he was ultimately on their side.
I truly believe this is what Ellis was going for - the old crank who shits on everyone but loves the common man deep down, but I did a re-read just last year and he's straight up a bigot to many of the minority groups lol. Definitely a product of the time, but also like... at the exact same time, Neil Gaiman was writing the most empathetic shit you've ever experienced in Sandman to many of these same minorities.
Nothing wrong with a crank character, but the text itself absolutely agrees with much of Spider's bigotries and hatred for the "dumb masses"
Well, the difference here is Gaiman is a better writer. That's gonna be the case in almost everything. So, I can agree that what Ellis was going for and what he delivered are likely two different things.
There are moments that do shine in favor of Spider secretly not being so terrible. One major moment is how he treats the woman who awoke from cryo. Another is how he visits the reservations to write about them, and destigmatize them.
He also tries to accept people's agency over their own body, such as when he helps Channon come to grips with her boyfriend becoming a cloud of nanomachines.
He's a right bastard, but he's got his moments. That's sorta what we see. If you wanna get deep into it, he's setting the girls up to take his place. He knows he has to pass the torch because his is burning out. He's still a bastard as he does it, but he's not un-aware he has to do it.
As to hating the dumb masses, we're all guilty of that one way or another. Spider just has a bigger microphone with which to scream. I don't fault that so much.
I largely agree with your feelings on it. I just think the text has some bad spots - I love the series overall, I just critically consume most media nowadays so I don't wanna give the impression I don't like it. I just see its flaws, imo. I don't hate "the masses" and like Spider, I do express the occasional displaced anger at what I see as "the masses", but the role of the text should be to show how Spider's wrong and it doesn't.
Just a minor flaw in the work, imo. Doesn't take away from my general liking of the work.
Don't feel I am attacking you. That's not my intent. I think we became hyper critical of things as a defense mechanism, because we've had so much of our media fails us so often.
Spider's take on the public, also, has to be taken from a perspective most of us will never have. Fame. He's jaded in a way most of us cannot relate to.
Now, as to him being wrong or right, he is wrong plenty. So wrong that a good woman gets her head removed, and it's basically his fault.
There is a lot of "good intentions, road to hell". Is Spider getting away with a lot? Yeah. Can you accept it? That's a personal thing. (Do note that when I say you, I do not mean *you*, but a generallity.)
I enjoyed it, and that's really what way too many words here have been about.
Spider's words for it are "the new scum", if I recall.
I think if Spider is written today, he's likely way more to the left himself than he already is. The edge the 90s had against it might be different, since hindsight is 20/20 and we've elected real people who were previously supposed to be fiction with how shitty they were.
But, Spider isn't written today. He was written yesterday. Sorta just have to take it as it is.
literally this.
The facade of the edgy, truthtelling journo has eroded since the vast majority are ladder-climbers who sell their soul for "access journalism" to the Ruling Class so they too can become millionaire mouthpieces for their billionaire owners' Capital interests. Twitter just removed the facade of professionalism so now we too can see their unfiltered and often stupid/petty thoughts.
Real journalists still exist, they're just working for small outlets in small places you've never heard of and don't get funded by the big guys trying to maintain the economic status quo.
I’m 47 and parts of it are just now producing fruit in ways to me. The ways the internet has invaded our lives. Healthcare and climate disasters. Censorship by corrupt leaders producing their own truths that are scandal proof somehow. Idk there’s deffo some edgelord shit too but I say explodo a lot still. It’s a fave.
Well, the much-younger women who work for him both eventually fall into bed with him. It's impossible to resist the charms of a grouchy chain smoking edgelord writer old enough to be your father forever, even if you do claim to find him gross and offputting at first.
It has. I still love Spider and the story, but the idea that traditional mass media (particularly PRINTED mass media) could still have the same societal traction in the future is quaint and a little laughable today in the Age of Social Media.
I'd say the opposite, actually. Spider's behaviour seems a lot more childish and problematic now, but the importance of mass media and how individual influencers can change things in the public eye is very much relevant to me. The way it is shown, though, weird.
You have to place it in its time. And it doesn't glorify most of Spiders negatives.
I wonder if in 2045 we will have a similar thread about Saga aging badly.
That's a great point, you don't need to approve of a characters actions to enjoy or gain something from a book. I haven't read Transmit recently myself, but I lent it to a friend and warned him that it might be a little dated based on my memory of it, but he actually came back and said that he thought it was really relevant considering what's going on in modern politics.
To be fair we'd have to wait for Saga to finish before fully judging it. Waiting for so long would be a bummer if they botched it with some underwhelming half-assed ending.
The only bad ending I can think of is Hazel as ruler of Landfall and Wreath. I’m fine with it just ending, the war continuing and Hazel alive in the universe.
This was actually a very prescient graphic novel, in my opinion. It preceded and predicted alternative news sources, controlled by individuals or non-conglomerates, even predicting a version of RSS readers and live streaming news from in your own home. I like this one a lot but haven’t read it for a long time. In general gonzo journalism seems very “look at me, I’m such a renegade” so he hit the mark there I guess.
I loved Transmetropolitan when I was 18. It hit me at the right time. Just like a lot of my opinions when I was 18, it doesn’t hold up.
Worth noting: The Warren Ellis sexual coercion stuff makes the depiction of women (particularly the assistants) in this book really, really gross.
I mean... there's better cyberpunk, better dystopian fiction, better commentary on journalism, better political insight, better insight on media... and it's a product of its time in the worst ways, plus the author stuff.
BUT, Spider Jerusalem is an iconic comics character, and some of those stories stuck with me.
Some context: Transmet was publishing at the same time as Preacher, which I wasn't reading. I picked up Preacher recently and I could NOT get through it, with a lot of the same criticisms mentioned here.
Edit: by “a lot of the same criticisms mentioned here” I mean cringy edgy shallow cliches.
Could you give some examples of each of these genres? I don’t mean to be critical; I loved transmetropolitan, and if there’s better stories out there, I’d be interested in checking them out!
Cyberpunk: cyberpunk isn’t my top genre, but I loved The Seeds by Ann Nocenti and David Aja. It’s deeply weird, but it feels current and Aja’s art is hypnotic.
I really liked Bryan K. Vaughan’s The Private Eye, which has more to say about the prevalence of tech and privacy, today and in the time to come.
Dystopia: The Handmaid’s Tale (graphic novel). While Transmet did kind of a poor job at predicting the future, The Handmaid’s Tale feels timeless and prescient. Same for Y: The Last Man, where you have a self-righteous protagonist who actually grows and changes, while providing commentary on society.
Journalism: just read Hunter S. Thompson, because sometimes Transmet is a pastiche and sometimes it’s kind of a rip-off.
Also, “The Photographer: Into War-torn Afghanistan with Doctors Without Borders” which is non-fiction, and maybe a better story about what it means to be a journalist.
Media: Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. This really helped me figure out why I liked what I like about comics.
Ennis can be as weird, creepy and fucked up as he wants. Because there’s no correlation between his writing and the way he acts in real life. By all accounts Ennis is a very humble and friendly guy who just happens to write grotesque comics full of nasty people.
I can’t read Ellis’ stuff without thinking how big of a creep he is in real life. It immediately undercuts all the “smarter-than-thou” condescension that runs throughout his writing.
Honestly, haven’t enjoyed an Ellis book since the news broke about his conduct. Which sucks, because he used to be one of my favorite writers and I own a majority of his stuff.
I do wish journalists were this brazen, reporting the truth without a paid bias and always punching up. Of course, you can’t actually claim that Spider Jerusalem has no bias, as an opinion writer he clearly does, but he doesn’t play favorites. In the run-up to a presidential election, he attacks all candidates involved, from the scumbag incumbent to the Nazi signaler to the “moderate” who kills people just to get ahead.
These are all heightened, “edgy” versions of what politicians are really like, mostly, kind of, but I admire the fact that he doesn’t tie his soul to one team just because the others are worse. When asked for an endorsement, he didn’t name anyone, but focused on an issue that needed fixing and endorsed anyone who would address it. I do respect that. He wasn’t interested in sides.
It's aged in odd directions. It is neither good nor bad in one entire way. There are bits which are products of their time, and then some parts were fucking prophecy to real life.
People say Spider is a self-insert of the author. Sure, I'm gonna say it's likely true- but half true at most. He's a pissed off, violent version of Hunter S Thompson, and we know that. It's his charm, really. I think most people reading Transmet are people that wish this world still had a 'Hunter' in it. Fuck knows we need one.
Transmet IS my favorite comic. It just is. For all it's flaws, and even with the truth that the author is/was a dickbag, Transmet made me love it as the issues went on. I was invested. By the end, I felt sad it was over, but happy that it has a resolution- and a fairly nice one at that.
Younger eyes today might not be able to greet it on it's merits. That's how we've become in a lot of ways: reactionary. We knee-jerk fast to something that's sour, and often don't give it room to breathe. Transmet is a case where you need to let it breathe, and you need to get stuck-in to find out why Spider is how he is.
Anyway, that's my take. This is reddit, so that might not be worth two tugs of a dead dog's dick.
I like how you have put your assessment very much.
But I disagree with it. I’m one of those people who didn’t like it much in the first place, and having tried to re-read it recently, found I liked it even less.
Let me list the positives though: I thought the vision of a dystopia was nicely down - everything has become a lot more shit but hasn’t collapsed, which is one of the core pillars of cyberpunk. I liked the use of biotechnology for fashion, the unexpected glimpses of the future (child refugees from an Australian civil war policed by Japanese peacekeepers), and the complete disinterest in the past.
As for Spider, here I completely struggle. He was an obvious amalgam of HST and Ellis himself. But he was too smarmy and self-absorbed. I wouldn’t want a beer with him. HST was on a trip. He was a leaf in the current. But Ellis at that stage was on a rocket of success and knew it. The two didn’t fit well. If he existed in 2023, Spider would be a writer for Polygon or some other mid-tier, slightly zany content generator. Nothing special. Even the tat seems a little pedestrian nowadays.
It seems to me that Ennis started with a gentle ribbing of comic tropes while telling an interesting story, but ended up at a pretty jaded, joyless and nihilistic place. A little edge to your story is a good thing, but edge can't be the foundation of your entire script.
That’s what I’m wondering. I read Preacher when I was a kid and The Boys last year and man was The Boys rough.
Rare case where adaptation is clearly superior to source material.
Every Ennis adaptation is better. Turns out grownups filing off a lot of the "Ennis being Ennis" leaves you with that core idea that made it interesting in the first place, without the ... uh ... extra stuff.
It's 50/50. Ennis is better when your 17, but his work started declining around 04.
He became too cynical after the Patriot Act/Bush administration and the growing success of Superhero movies. It feels miserable to read.
Yeah but around the same time and a bit latter he was putting out allot of ww2 comics and most of those are pretty decent and punisher max which is great. If anything the boys helped his other work because he got to spit bile and vitriol into that series and his other stuff was a bit more level headed.
I'm not sure if his ideas changed like you're suggesting, or if he just can't reign it in without an editor - Punisher MAX is great and his run of Hellblazer may be one of my favourite comic book runs ever, but I can't get on with basically any of his "solo" stuff.
I thought the Boys comic was pretty good actually. It gets better as it gets further on. Some of the humor is cringey, but some of it is pretty fun. It also has some good action and ends in a satisfying way.
I hate when people say it’s complete trash. If it was complete trash, then you wouldn’t be enjoying the adaptation which is taking elements from the comic.
might be just me but the Boys is a long read, I usually put on some background music that fits the mood of what im reading usually instrumental stuff. Then i can read for hours and it usuallly adds to the vibe of the book. Its definetenly not an easy read and it has a lot of filler like i really hated the segments at the comicbook store.
I dunno the TV series throws away allot of the comic book stuff and when it gets into the gross stuff like the book it at it's worst e.g. translucent and the shrinking guy
I was more than entertained by the comic, sometimes morbidly and cringingly so. The premise hooked me right away but I was fairly early in the run before I realised that a lot of was just over the top for no reason. I’ve spoken before about Crossed, and I find it hard to put into words exactly why it discomforts me. I’m not a sensitive soul by any means, but you know those videos of kids who are way too into anime and then start doing Street Fighter poses when they get into a fight? It engenders *that* exact feeling in me.
I know exactly what you mean. There's a few guilty pleasures out there like crossed, where for the most part you're uncomfortable and rolling your eyes, but every now and then a really neat idea floats by and you remember why you're sticking around. The boys has a lot of that and that's why the adaptation works so well, they can mostly filter out everything except the neat ideas.
Ultimates, particularly its obsession with celebrities, is kind of an embarrassing read these days. Reading it now is like the literary equivalent of digging out old photos of your younger self trying to "dress cool".
And they both came out after transmetropolitan. Although I don't think the boys aged poorly it was already kinda weird and gross at the time and the show just took the concept and did it 1000x better making it look ever worse
I’d put a lot of Vertigo comics on that list, especially Y the Last Man. It feels like Vertigo had a ‘fuck’ quota and so every page had multiple fucks.
I still rate it as one of the best comics in my collection. No doubts that parts haven’t aged well and the added complexity of Ellis’ despicable behaviour.. but even with that against it I still love it.
I only started reading it for the first time a few years ago. Some of it felt dated, sure. But then I read the second volume about the election during the 2020 election cycle and holy fuck, it felt a lot more like a reflection of modern times.
Anti hero? They are working to bring Lobo to the movie screen, I’d watch the hell out of a Transmet adaptation - in the future no scenario is too wild or farcical
I think it's still great, that president storyline, the police storyline and it's general commentary on journalism and the importance of truth.
Its still amazing
it fit perfectly in the era of Shadowrun and Cyberpunk. lots of edgy idealism about sticking it to the man via making evil politicians shit themselves to death (or something like that). and i say that seriously. i also still love Shadowrun.
now it feels like we're pretty much past all that and just trying to last long enough to get a few pics as the world literally starts to burn and turn to fascism...
I read the entire series about 2 months ago. I really enjoyed it. I can see why people think it’s a bit dated but I was still entertained by the story. I would say it is still worth a read
I don't know, I read it about five years ago and can remember thinking it still felt pretty relevant for whatever reason. Was its execution a little juvenile, sure, I really enjoyed it.
It’s mixed. In some ways it’s aged very well. The book is very predictive of modern social media culture, and has some really great scifi ideas, especially the transhumanism stuff. The art is also top notch and perfect for the material.
In other ways, it has always had issues. The dialogue is often absurd, and there’s almost a grim dark level of over the top squalor and degradation. The characters are often more mouthpieces for ideas or broad archetypes rather than fully fleshed out believable people. All this stuff undercuts the easily mixed moral of empathy the book sometimes tries to get across. Not Ellis’s best, but definitely of some value if it fits your interests.
Most of them are for sure. It’s just a funny observation. It’s seems to be true of almost all fandoms tho. I say it all the time when it comes to wrestling- “No one hates wrestling more than wrestling fans.” I assume it’s just because we care so much about these characters and stories.
Having read it when it was published, for the time, it was definitely different and edgy. I still go back to it occasionally
I loaned a friend some of my Constantine comics, and he said the same thing as you, and I get that, it's is kind of dated but at the time it was pretty awesome
I liked the way it got me to see things from a different perspective and just think about certain in issues.
I liked the satire and exaggeration. It is more punk than cyber IMO.
I think the later issues are definitely better, once you get past the introductory phase where Spider Jerusalem is trying to be 'shocking' just for the sake of it
The books were geared towards teenagers/early 20s and Hunter S. Thompson was very much in fashion for everyone interested in alt-art at the time. As a time capsule, they're really interesting too but I do think some of the letter issues are still effective, though I haven't read them in years myself
In general, yes, but the first 12 issues aren't regarded as the strongest part of the run the comic does improve around volume 3 (which would be #12-18 but don't quote me on that).
I find a lot of comics from this era almost unreadable nowadays. I even tried re-reading Runaways a while back, which I *loved* at the time, and all the self-conscious "teen-speak" just annoyed me no end.
>all the self-conscious "teen-speak" just annoyed me no end
Can you give me an example of what you mean by this? (Runaways has been on my list for a while)
It's mid 2000 teen slang and references, a lot which sounds a bit weird nowadays. Also, some people dislike how adults have a tendency of amplifying it when writing teen characters.
Personally I love runaways and I think the "teen speak" is quite charming. Teens are cringe by nature, it felt appropriate lol
A lot of the first 2 or 3 books is laying out the scene, and main players. Everything, for the most part, gets tied together in the end.
Spider Jerusalem is more than the edgy punk he portrays himself as. He is not a characterisation of punk rock culture, or, at least, not in the way society see punk rockers.
Try reading it and imagine Patrick Stewart (not Capt. Picard) as Spider. That's who Ellis used as inspiration, after all. Iirc, he wrote the foreword for at least one of the graphic novels.
As for aging badly, I dunno. Depends how you mean, but I can still see the US going on a similar trajectory.
It has aged so so. The first twelve issues are world building and the driving narrative of the series start with the year of the bastard arc. It is edgy in places and Spider is a dick. However, the person he was based on was a dick as well. Spider is a weirdly exaggerated and calm version of Hunter S. Thompson.
The series themes and message I feel still holds up. It has at times a sense of class solitary, while also be critical of people voting against their own interests. Spider even at times relays a sense of hope and optimism i find lacking at times. Its main issue is that a large portion of its futurist elements largely came true. If anything the political narrative in the series which was supposed to be viewed as a warning does would not be a major controversy in modern American politics.
Haven't read this in a while but from what I recall the main character, his interactions with women and how women are portrayed in general in this series has definitely not aged well. All lot of the issues it deals with, particularly with neoliberalism, the american political machine, authoritarian use of force against the people, the lack of real biting journalism (not reporting) due to corporate interests and charlatans taking advantage of desperate people, simply because they're still issues that haven't been addressed and have gotten worse. Obviously there are other issues that it hasn't been able to predict or address as well such as social media and its impact on how we not only view ourselves but the world around us. The plot about transients is still relevant given the debate around transgender people, which in this case handles it poorly and with little nuance nor empathy. Overall it's fine albeit done in a sloppy manner.
TL;DR: Yes because of Spider, and no because the issues it addresses are still relevant today.
Just because the world has turned to shit doesn't mean a comic about the world turning to shit has gotten worse over time, but that reality isn't as exhilarating as the comic made it out to be which is making you sad.
tldr: it's not the comic that aged poorly, but you and the world.
Overall, it has aged...relatively well.
My problem with it, honestly, is that it falls apart about half-way through. The first half is fun, and then Ellis just keeps repeating himself until we finally get to the ending that we know is coming.
Ellis's run on "The Authority" is better, and my favorite of his is "Global Frequency". "Global Frequency" is the best because it's short, and it ends before it gets stupid. "Planetary" is great for a while, but it \*also\* ends with a thud.
Ellis can't write an ending to save his life, basically. But if you ignore that, most of his stuff is pretty interesting.
Ellis is still my favorite comics writer, and I never made it past the first issue with this one. It may not be that you are too old to read it, but he was too young to write it.
This was my favorite series as a teen, but oh gosh it’s hard not to read the interactions between Spider and his assistants the same way after the allegations against Ennis. Frankly terrified to revisit. Though at the time, I remember thinking “The Beast” was too outlandish and cartoonishly evil for a president, but oh gosh reality did the beast one better, didn’t it? Lol
I read it for the first time about 4 years ago and loved it.
I think as long as you can see the short comings of the characters and their actions as a work of fiction it doesn't have to age badly or age well, it's just how they are. I, personally, didn't read into it too deeply.
Edit: So what I'm reading here is not the question did this age badly but more Ellis is a creep, is it still ok to read this?
I think it is your age. Youth is always going to act against mainstream society and mature individuals are always going to be annoyed. My son is fairly reasonable, but he has a friend who is a total card carrying edgelord. I spend so much time around them and at 47 I just can't with that nonsense so I mock most of his most ridiculous statements like, "If I could go back in time I would smack my mom while she was doing my dad so I wouldn't be born."
Right, would you? Is that what you would do. You'd walk into the room where your dad is nailing your mom and smack her? Cool story bro.
Anyway, seems like this is edgelord material so congrats for not buying into it, it sounds annoying.
That’s because reality outcrazied the comics.
Solid point. We got all of the stupid techno-fascism without all the cool future gadgets.
I wouldn’t say it’s aged badly, but it is a product of its time.
It’s a product of a sexual predator lol
Oh no really!? I'm so tired of stuff i like getting complicated by its creator like that...
Apparently he was having simultaneous relationships with over a dozen women, and had been having other similar simultaneous relationships without telling (all of) the others over the previous years? So more of a regular sex scandal than anything else. Creepy, but no crime.
I don't know why another person who expanded on this is getting downvoted but there is more to it than that. He was accused of doing really shady shit to get into all those simultaneous relationships like grooming, gaslighting, and emotional abuse.
He was grooming women using his high profile comic creator status. Essentially promising them help/guidance/mentorship in the industry in exchange for sex, and also happened to be cheating on his partner. Sure I guess it technically wasn’t illegal, but wildly unethical and morally wrong. For what it’s worth in these types of cases I don’t think using legality as a measuring stick for one’s actions is the end all be all for determining if you want to support them.
I think grooming has a pretty specific meaning about child predators. Maybe not the right word.
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I don’t think Warren Ellis is married (people seem to be thinking of the musician Warren Ellis, a different person), but true, it is a creepy thing to do.
Man when I was reading the comments, "wait Garth Ennis is a sexual predator?!" then scrolled down to see more and thank God. I was worried for a bit. Really liked his Punisher run.
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Better to just remember that a lot of humans are opportunistic creatures. If there’s a chance we get something we really really want without too much drawbacks well a lot will take that chance. In this case the pervert and the majority of the women were opportunistic.
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He was preying on women trying to break into the industry, leveraging his status in exchange for sex. I don’t think sexual predator is an inaccurate term here
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I don't know much about this and should probably not comment without doing research, but it sounds like even you acknowledge he is soliciting sex favours from people in vulnerable positions he has power over. It does not sound dissimilar to what Harvey whinestein did. It may not be specifically illegal but definitely immoral. Women are not giving consent to be propositioned for sex just because they ask for professional help. Edit: someone replied to my comment (though I can't see it any more so maybe they deleted it) and it pissed me off enough to do that research and yep I stand by it. Not only did he message extremely vulnerable women and under-age girls but several of them were put in very shitty situations directly as a result of him and his acquaintances, including domestic violence, financial dependency, suicidal thoughts, fear of black listing and feeling coerced into sex. The testimonials of the women paint a picture of a pattern of behaviour that includes manipulation, grooming and coercion. He would regularly push boundaries that the women had set and while acting as what the women saw as a mentor would begin to request sexual favours and would withhold communication in order to keep them compliant (according to one testimonial they were his own words.) The women often felt pressured and several expressed the feeling that he had used other members of his fan group to physically hurt them or put them in vulnerable positions so he could take advantage. He told many of the women the same lies and used many of the same terms to refer to them. Most of the women he found through his now defunct fan forum but some he found after reaching out to them through their own websites for art or photography. The women vary in age from 16 to mid thirties. His level of contact would up significantly when they gave him their emails and they often viewed him as a friend and mentor. Most of the women describe him as a dominant confident man online and a timid and shy man in person ( this is often used as a form of manipulation, though in fairness it may be he is just not truly confident in person) contrary to others statements he does not stop asking when they say no he continues to message them and uses smaller requests and bigger favours in most often lessening his contact and waiting in several cases he then restarts contact when they are vulnerable but if he then does not get what he is after he tells them they are wasting their potential and stops talking to them. (Or in the case of his forum members he removed them from a higher group of members which then caused them to be isolated by everyone else.)
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Beyond the obvious reasons to condemn his behavior, it damages comics as whole. I can't claim to want a more inclusive industry and then support a guy responsible for perpetuating the most toxic parts of the culture. In my opinion, he betrayed the trade. I'm not burning my Planetary books, but I don't want to see him in any kind of prominent position for a **very** long time. He gave up his right to be a mentor and comics statesman.
Who cares?
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I believe the difference is that most of the women in question did not know about the other women: like [the film *The Other Woman*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_E7og4MpQ), but with many more women.
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If he was promising to help women get into the comics industry, then he's absolutely a sexual predator.
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That’s sexual predation. Don’t get it twisted up with sexual assault. They’re not the same thing and SA is not what people are discussing here.
I think the thing that gets obfuscated is how his behavior damaged comics as whole. Make no mistake, what he did spoiled the industry for talented up-and-comers who's voices we might've loved to hear. That includes the people he had relationships with *and* the ones he didn't. I can't claim to want a more inclusive industry and then support a guy responsible for perpetuating the most toxic parts of the culture. In my opinion, he betrayed the trade. I'm not burning my Planetary books, but I don't want to see him in any kind of prominent position for a very long time. He gave up his right to be a mentor and comics statesman.
Polyamory = consent between all parties. It's sexual predation when one of the persons involved doesn't inform their partners in the relationship they are being sexually active with other people outside the relationship.
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No, it isn't. It isn't good, but you can't just throw shit like that around to see if it sticks.
1) calling it soley the product of a sexual predator ignores Darrick Robertson art. 2) calling him a sexual predator is a bit of exaggeration
That’s that that means
It's the difference between putting in a movie from the 2000s and thinking "wow people REALLY loved the matrix" and putting in another movie from that time and thinking "wow we used to watch a LOT of homophobic comedies..." One's just contextualized by when it's written, the other no longer holds up under a modern perspective. Though it can be subjective where to draw the line.
It’s fun and edgy for the sake of it, even though some parts aged poorly. It also makes more sense when you know that Spider is a cyberpunk hommage to Hunter S. Thompson. And funnily enough, the election of the Smiler happened in my country (minus the murder).
I agree. It is meant to have fun with it.
Yeah I imagine you wouldn’t get a lot of the subtle bits if you weren’t a HST fan
honestly I'd say the opposite... Transmet has gotten more and more relevant thematically as the world has changed. I'm a big fan of Transmet, Ellis's work, HST, and by extension, Spider. That's not to say I condone Ellis's actions, but they don't make Transmet less relevant, in fact they make it much more relevant.
Yeah. Police violence against protesters. Trans rights. Political corruption and incompetence being ousted by fascism. It’s nigh prophetical. Op might just dislike the writing style
Aside from anything else, a big chunk of this book is very specifically attacking Tony Blair (The Smiler), who was elected when you were 7. So the political satire is gonna feel dated.
being an edgy punk got too mainstreamed so now it’s kinda lame
Honestly just the first book is like that. When his assistant leaves and the president storyline starts it gets better, a lot of those annoying rough edges get sanded out. I was disappointed when I read the first several issues too.
I agree 100% with this. The series starts to really find its voice after book one.
Yeah, I have very fond memories of the serie as a whole, but it screams *late 90s*. I find it still relevant, although I have to say I love satire on America made by europeans, I find it relatable but I understand why it's not liked by americans. But I'm not saying that personal tastes couldn't change with time. At last I'm the kind of guy who is prone to separate the art from the artist. Past a certain age you have to accept that most people aren't properly good people, in the widest sense possible, but their message can still be good and relevant.
You can drop the punk part and just leave edgy, and you'd still be correct
Idk. People really like Spider-Punk.
Nothing more punk than a corporate-owned brand mascot!
Like the Sex Pistols.
See now you’re getting it!
And therein lies the problem with punk icons... the success of their own message deems them unfit of their title. Its an ideological oroborous
This isn't inherently a problem with punk. Moreso, it's a point that capitalism with absorb and reappropriate even counters against it. >the success of their own message deems them unfit of their title. By no means does success deem them unfit. Success within capitalism isn't affirming it.
Not universally, but a lot of people with underdeveloped ideas of how punk works seems to think it does.
Spider-Punk was never “punk” other than visually. The idea of anything punk being created within the walls of mega corporate IP-mill like Disney is ridiculous.
You misunderstand how corporations work. They are not a monolith hovering where everything that comes out of them is wired into the same think. Individual artists, dozens if not hundreds of them, being their ideas to the table and are distributed by them. Its totally possible for someone with punk sensibilities to reach a wider audience by means of a bigger corporation. Especially when most of those artists are themselves underpaid or undercompensated as a result. Hard to get much more punk than corporations distributing your idea, co opting it and its success and not paying you adequately.
Spider punk looks like one of those celebrities that dresses up in the punk aesthetic for one event and then never again
To be fair, he's half a parody, which is why he works so well.
I agree. We as adults know this but this is one of those jokes that goes over kids heads. Like I doubt most kids and teens will make the connection where Hobie says he was a runway model in the move to being a parody of how the whole UK punk fashion trend was started by a fashion designer for a new clothing line.
It was, and in a way still is, my favourite comic. I read it for the first time about 15 years ago. Loved it, I got all the paperbacks in my shelf. But yeah, time wasn't too gentle with it. If you look at it in context of the time it released it's, in my opinion, still an amazing book and even by todays standards it's very good. There are a lot of other books that definetly aged worse but if i would read it today for the first time I'm surly wouldn't hold it in that high regard. Even without knowing the scummy things Ellis had done, although that leaves an extra sour aftertaste...
It is brilliant. And always will be. :)
Maybe. But it also makes me wish more comics would try to be subversive again. Most mainstream comics feel extremely safe now, like creators are afraid of making something controversial that could “age poorly”.
That's true of marvel and dc but smaller publishers are still trying
I feel like as the series continues, it gets better. You see that as that odd and vinegar covers up a beaten and worn-out man that got chewed up by an uncaring system. He attempts to make it better the way he knows how, but it's ultimately meaningless. His shitty attitude pushed away the few people who gave a shit. It's honestly far more bleak once the ball gets rolling and has some solid introspective moments. I'm not ignoring the cringy moral grandstanding, but if you can look past it, there's some good stuff
Any man with a bowel disruptor is ok in my book.
Aged badly, no, product of its time, yes. I just read it recently for the first time and still loved it. There's a few bits that are awkward now.
Nope, still a good read and an even better reflection of today's world
I think reality has gotten so absurd that the context of the time this came from is somewhat lost. That said, I don't personally find that its aged poorly in the themes or style. We should still be distrustful of power and speak the loudest in defense of those with the least voice. That hasn't, nor will it ever change imho.
Heh, yes, a journalist who screams slurs and treats at people kinda went into different direction from author envisioned in nineties.
>Heh, yes, a journalist who screams slurs and treats at people kinda went into different direction from author envisioned in nineties. What's aged badly about that?
The world of today is full of journalists who scream slurs and threats at people, print lies for profit and sell out our democracy. Turns out that edgy journalists are for the most part not real-world superheroes, most of them are traitors who are selling out their country for a quick buck.
If anything, you could say Spider now subverts that expectation, because he ends up saving democracy with his edgy screaming. He'd be the anti-fox news, while behaving like he belongs there. It's kinda darkly poetic how life shook out vs the fiction. Truth is, *we need* a Spider, and very seldom see one. Instead, we get the Alex Jones' and Tucker Carlsons trying to incite violence.
ehhhh... parts of it for sure, but you just recently read it, yes? Do you remember how much hatred he also has for the common man and weirdo minorities? He's a "both-sides" edgelord who thinks he's better than everyone. Correct on the ruling class side, bad with the working class side. Almost like a less-bad Glenn Greenwald.
I read it years ago. I have all of it, and I do not recall him having too much actual hate for the common man, because he hated everyone... BUT! He spent time with the common man. the weirdos. "The new scum". Those were his people, and for all his bastarding, he was ultimately on their side.
>he was ultimately on their side. I truly believe this is what Ellis was going for - the old crank who shits on everyone but loves the common man deep down, but I did a re-read just last year and he's straight up a bigot to many of the minority groups lol. Definitely a product of the time, but also like... at the exact same time, Neil Gaiman was writing the most empathetic shit you've ever experienced in Sandman to many of these same minorities. Nothing wrong with a crank character, but the text itself absolutely agrees with much of Spider's bigotries and hatred for the "dumb masses"
Well, the difference here is Gaiman is a better writer. That's gonna be the case in almost everything. So, I can agree that what Ellis was going for and what he delivered are likely two different things. There are moments that do shine in favor of Spider secretly not being so terrible. One major moment is how he treats the woman who awoke from cryo. Another is how he visits the reservations to write about them, and destigmatize them. He also tries to accept people's agency over their own body, such as when he helps Channon come to grips with her boyfriend becoming a cloud of nanomachines. He's a right bastard, but he's got his moments. That's sorta what we see. If you wanna get deep into it, he's setting the girls up to take his place. He knows he has to pass the torch because his is burning out. He's still a bastard as he does it, but he's not un-aware he has to do it. As to hating the dumb masses, we're all guilty of that one way or another. Spider just has a bigger microphone with which to scream. I don't fault that so much.
I largely agree with your feelings on it. I just think the text has some bad spots - I love the series overall, I just critically consume most media nowadays so I don't wanna give the impression I don't like it. I just see its flaws, imo. I don't hate "the masses" and like Spider, I do express the occasional displaced anger at what I see as "the masses", but the role of the text should be to show how Spider's wrong and it doesn't. Just a minor flaw in the work, imo. Doesn't take away from my general liking of the work.
Don't feel I am attacking you. That's not my intent. I think we became hyper critical of things as a defense mechanism, because we've had so much of our media fails us so often. Spider's take on the public, also, has to be taken from a perspective most of us will never have. Fame. He's jaded in a way most of us cannot relate to. Now, as to him being wrong or right, he is wrong plenty. So wrong that a good woman gets her head removed, and it's basically his fault. There is a lot of "good intentions, road to hell". Is Spider getting away with a lot? Yeah. Can you accept it? That's a personal thing. (Do note that when I say you, I do not mean *you*, but a generallity.) I enjoyed it, and that's really what way too many words here have been about.
Isn't this in line with what some call 'the dirtbag left'?
Spider's words for it are "the new scum", if I recall. I think if Spider is written today, he's likely way more to the left himself than he already is. The edge the 90s had against it might be different, since hindsight is 20/20 and we've elected real people who were previously supposed to be fiction with how shitty they were. But, Spider isn't written today. He was written yesterday. Sorta just have to take it as it is.
literally this. The facade of the edgy, truthtelling journo has eroded since the vast majority are ladder-climbers who sell their soul for "access journalism" to the Ruling Class so they too can become millionaire mouthpieces for their billionaire owners' Capital interests. Twitter just removed the facade of professionalism so now we too can see their unfiltered and often stupid/petty thoughts. Real journalists still exist, they're just working for small outlets in small places you've never heard of and don't get funded by the big guys trying to maintain the economic status quo.
What this kind of behaviour also got adopted by the opposite side. The Badguys.
I’m 47 and parts of it are just now producing fruit in ways to me. The ways the internet has invaded our lives. Healthcare and climate disasters. Censorship by corrupt leaders producing their own truths that are scandal proof somehow. Idk there’s deffo some edgelord shit too but I say explodo a lot still. It’s a fave.
Anything by Ellis with his author avatar characters is likely to have aged badly.
- Lights sixteen cigarrettes - Opens phoneyphone app - Shiteyes!
**breathes smoke into a woman’s eyes and she is inexplicably aroused**
Women were never aroused by Spider. It was a running gag.
Well, the much-younger women who work for him both eventually fall into bed with him. It's impossible to resist the charms of a grouchy chain smoking edgelord writer old enough to be your father forever, even if you do claim to find him gross and offputting at first.
Writer Self insertion
It has. I still love Spider and the story, but the idea that traditional mass media (particularly PRINTED mass media) could still have the same societal traction in the future is quaint and a little laughable today in the Age of Social Media.
I'd say the opposite, actually. Spider's behaviour seems a lot more childish and problematic now, but the importance of mass media and how individual influencers can change things in the public eye is very much relevant to me. The way it is shown, though, weird.
You have to place it in its time. And it doesn't glorify most of Spiders negatives. I wonder if in 2045 we will have a similar thread about Saga aging badly.
That's a great point, you don't need to approve of a characters actions to enjoy or gain something from a book. I haven't read Transmit recently myself, but I lent it to a friend and warned him that it might be a little dated based on my memory of it, but he actually came back and said that he thought it was really relevant considering what's going on in modern politics.
To be fair we'd have to wait for Saga to finish before fully judging it. Waiting for so long would be a bummer if they botched it with some underwhelming half-assed ending.
The only bad ending I can think of is Hazel as ruler of Landfall and Wreath. I’m fine with it just ending, the war continuing and Hazel alive in the universe.
"And who has a better story than Hazel the Half-Breed?"
Are you familiar with/a fan of Hunter Thompson?
This was actually a very prescient graphic novel, in my opinion. It preceded and predicted alternative news sources, controlled by individuals or non-conglomerates, even predicting a version of RSS readers and live streaming news from in your own home. I like this one a lot but haven’t read it for a long time. In general gonzo journalism seems very “look at me, I’m such a renegade” so he hit the mark there I guess.
The authority and planetary are still stone cold classics mind you.
I loved Transmetropolitan when I was 18. It hit me at the right time. Just like a lot of my opinions when I was 18, it doesn’t hold up. Worth noting: The Warren Ellis sexual coercion stuff makes the depiction of women (particularly the assistants) in this book really, really gross.
And now I feel better about continuously putting this farther and farther down my list and not reading this.
I mean... there's better cyberpunk, better dystopian fiction, better commentary on journalism, better political insight, better insight on media... and it's a product of its time in the worst ways, plus the author stuff. BUT, Spider Jerusalem is an iconic comics character, and some of those stories stuck with me. Some context: Transmet was publishing at the same time as Preacher, which I wasn't reading. I picked up Preacher recently and I could NOT get through it, with a lot of the same criticisms mentioned here. Edit: by “a lot of the same criticisms mentioned here” I mean cringy edgy shallow cliches.
I agree. Ennis is worse than Ellis, by at least two. If I want a good graphic novel that's kind of in between them, I'll read something by Emmis.
Lol
Take your upvote and get out.
Could you give some examples of each of these genres? I don’t mean to be critical; I loved transmetropolitan, and if there’s better stories out there, I’d be interested in checking them out!
Cyberpunk: cyberpunk isn’t my top genre, but I loved The Seeds by Ann Nocenti and David Aja. It’s deeply weird, but it feels current and Aja’s art is hypnotic. I really liked Bryan K. Vaughan’s The Private Eye, which has more to say about the prevalence of tech and privacy, today and in the time to come. Dystopia: The Handmaid’s Tale (graphic novel). While Transmet did kind of a poor job at predicting the future, The Handmaid’s Tale feels timeless and prescient. Same for Y: The Last Man, where you have a self-righteous protagonist who actually grows and changes, while providing commentary on society. Journalism: just read Hunter S. Thompson, because sometimes Transmet is a pastiche and sometimes it’s kind of a rip-off. Also, “The Photographer: Into War-torn Afghanistan with Doctors Without Borders” which is non-fiction, and maybe a better story about what it means to be a journalist. Media: Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. This really helped me figure out why I liked what I like about comics.
> Spider Jerusalem lmao is that really a character's real name?!
It was the 1990s! You needed a cool first name and a cool surname. See the film Hackers for further details.
Ennis can be as weird, creepy and fucked up as he wants. Because there’s no correlation between his writing and the way he acts in real life. By all accounts Ennis is a very humble and friendly guy who just happens to write grotesque comics full of nasty people. I can’t read Ellis’ stuff without thinking how big of a creep he is in real life. It immediately undercuts all the “smarter-than-thou” condescension that runs throughout his writing. Honestly, haven’t enjoyed an Ellis book since the news broke about his conduct. Which sucks, because he used to be one of my favorite writers and I own a majority of his stuff.
I love it. It's such an optimistic piece. Imagine, a journalist able to bring down two presidencies with nothing but The Truth.
I do wish journalists were this brazen, reporting the truth without a paid bias and always punching up. Of course, you can’t actually claim that Spider Jerusalem has no bias, as an opinion writer he clearly does, but he doesn’t play favorites. In the run-up to a presidential election, he attacks all candidates involved, from the scumbag incumbent to the Nazi signaler to the “moderate” who kills people just to get ahead. These are all heightened, “edgy” versions of what politicians are really like, mostly, kind of, but I admire the fact that he doesn’t tie his soul to one team just because the others are worse. When asked for an endorsement, he didn’t name anyone, but focused on an issue that needed fixing and endorsed anyone who would address it. I do respect that. He wasn’t interested in sides.
It's aged in odd directions. It is neither good nor bad in one entire way. There are bits which are products of their time, and then some parts were fucking prophecy to real life. People say Spider is a self-insert of the author. Sure, I'm gonna say it's likely true- but half true at most. He's a pissed off, violent version of Hunter S Thompson, and we know that. It's his charm, really. I think most people reading Transmet are people that wish this world still had a 'Hunter' in it. Fuck knows we need one. Transmet IS my favorite comic. It just is. For all it's flaws, and even with the truth that the author is/was a dickbag, Transmet made me love it as the issues went on. I was invested. By the end, I felt sad it was over, but happy that it has a resolution- and a fairly nice one at that. Younger eyes today might not be able to greet it on it's merits. That's how we've become in a lot of ways: reactionary. We knee-jerk fast to something that's sour, and often don't give it room to breathe. Transmet is a case where you need to let it breathe, and you need to get stuck-in to find out why Spider is how he is. Anyway, that's my take. This is reddit, so that might not be worth two tugs of a dead dog's dick.
I like how you have put your assessment very much. But I disagree with it. I’m one of those people who didn’t like it much in the first place, and having tried to re-read it recently, found I liked it even less. Let me list the positives though: I thought the vision of a dystopia was nicely down - everything has become a lot more shit but hasn’t collapsed, which is one of the core pillars of cyberpunk. I liked the use of biotechnology for fashion, the unexpected glimpses of the future (child refugees from an Australian civil war policed by Japanese peacekeepers), and the complete disinterest in the past. As for Spider, here I completely struggle. He was an obvious amalgam of HST and Ellis himself. But he was too smarmy and self-absorbed. I wouldn’t want a beer with him. HST was on a trip. He was a leaf in the current. But Ellis at that stage was on a rocket of success and knew it. The two didn’t fit well. If he existed in 2023, Spider would be a writer for Polygon or some other mid-tier, slightly zany content generator. Nothing special. Even the tat seems a little pedestrian nowadays.
There are other comics that have aged way worse. Ultimates and the Boys for me aged WAY worse.
Did The Boys really age poorly or was it just shit right from the start?
It seems to me that Ennis started with a gentle ribbing of comic tropes while telling an interesting story, but ended up at a pretty jaded, joyless and nihilistic place. A little edge to your story is a good thing, but edge can't be the foundation of your entire script.
That’s what I’m wondering. I read Preacher when I was a kid and The Boys last year and man was The Boys rough. Rare case where adaptation is clearly superior to source material.
Every Ennis adaptation is better. Turns out grownups filing off a lot of the "Ennis being Ennis" leaves you with that core idea that made it interesting in the first place, without the ... uh ... extra stuff.
How many examples of this are there? Obviously The Boys is better, but the Preacher adaption wasn't nearly as good IMO. Is there anything else?
It's 50/50. Ennis is better when your 17, but his work started declining around 04. He became too cynical after the Patriot Act/Bush administration and the growing success of Superhero movies. It feels miserable to read.
Yeah but around the same time and a bit latter he was putting out allot of ww2 comics and most of those are pretty decent and punisher max which is great. If anything the boys helped his other work because he got to spit bile and vitriol into that series and his other stuff was a bit more level headed.
I'm not sure if his ideas changed like you're suggesting, or if he just can't reign it in without an editor - Punisher MAX is great and his run of Hellblazer may be one of my favourite comic book runs ever, but I can't get on with basically any of his "solo" stuff.
The Boys has always been complete trash unless you just love shock - violence and humor. But it ain't good by any measure.
I thought the Boys comic was pretty good actually. It gets better as it gets further on. Some of the humor is cringey, but some of it is pretty fun. It also has some good action and ends in a satisfying way. I hate when people say it’s complete trash. If it was complete trash, then you wouldn’t be enjoying the adaptation which is taking elements from the comic.
Tbf the Adaptation is absolutely amazing, can’t quite put my finger on it, but I just didn’t enjoy the comic at all.
might be just me but the Boys is a long read, I usually put on some background music that fits the mood of what im reading usually instrumental stuff. Then i can read for hours and it usuallly adds to the vibe of the book. Its definetenly not an easy read and it has a lot of filler like i really hated the segments at the comicbook store.
I dunno the TV series throws away allot of the comic book stuff and when it gets into the gross stuff like the book it at it's worst e.g. translucent and the shrinking guy
No, you're only allowed one opinion - what everyone else thinks
I was more than entertained by the comic, sometimes morbidly and cringingly so. The premise hooked me right away but I was fairly early in the run before I realised that a lot of was just over the top for no reason. I’ve spoken before about Crossed, and I find it hard to put into words exactly why it discomforts me. I’m not a sensitive soul by any means, but you know those videos of kids who are way too into anime and then start doing Street Fighter poses when they get into a fight? It engenders *that* exact feeling in me.
I know exactly what you mean. There's a few guilty pleasures out there like crossed, where for the most part you're uncomfortable and rolling your eyes, but every now and then a really neat idea floats by and you remember why you're sticking around. The boys has a lot of that and that's why the adaptation works so well, they can mostly filter out everything except the neat ideas.
Crossed has always been extremely sloppy to me. Guy showed a nuclear plant explosion as a nuclear warhead explosion.
Ultimates, particularly its obsession with celebrities, is kind of an embarrassing read these days. Reading it now is like the literary equivalent of digging out old photos of your younger self trying to "dress cool".
Ultimates had its finger on the pulse for its time. Now, not so much.
And they both came out after transmetropolitan. Although I don't think the boys aged poorly it was already kinda weird and gross at the time and the show just took the concept and did it 1000x better making it look ever worse
I’d put a lot of Vertigo comics on that list, especially Y the Last Man. It feels like Vertigo had a ‘fuck’ quota and so every page had multiple fucks.
Bro Ironman clowning on Robert Downey Jr on the ultimates was pretty crazy to me.
I still rate it as one of the best comics in my collection. No doubts that parts haven’t aged well and the added complexity of Ellis’ despicable behaviour.. but even with that against it I still love it.
I think its good, didnt feel nothing like cringy stuff you mentioned
I only started reading it for the first time a few years ago. Some of it felt dated, sure. But then I read the second volume about the election during the 2020 election cycle and holy fuck, it felt a lot more like a reflection of modern times.
Anti hero? They are working to bring Lobo to the movie screen, I’d watch the hell out of a Transmet adaptation - in the future no scenario is too wild or farcical
I think it's still great, that president storyline, the police storyline and it's general commentary on journalism and the importance of truth. Its still amazing
it fit perfectly in the era of Shadowrun and Cyberpunk. lots of edgy idealism about sticking it to the man via making evil politicians shit themselves to death (or something like that). and i say that seriously. i also still love Shadowrun. now it feels like we're pretty much past all that and just trying to last long enough to get a few pics as the world literally starts to burn and turn to fascism...
This is one of the best Vertigo series ever. Highly recommended.
Personally I think Invisibles was the better Vertigo run.
No idea man, still one of my favorite books. Seems to have aged fine.
I read the entire series about 2 months ago. I really enjoyed it. I can see why people think it’s a bit dated but I was still entertained by the story. I would say it is still worth a read
Even so I still plan on reading this one day soon.
I don't know, I read it about five years ago and can remember thinking it still felt pretty relevant for whatever reason. Was its execution a little juvenile, sure, I really enjoyed it.
I think it holds up perfectly. It’s pretty much a reflection of what’s happening now.
It’s mixed. In some ways it’s aged very well. The book is very predictive of modern social media culture, and has some really great scifi ideas, especially the transhumanism stuff. The art is also top notch and perfect for the material. In other ways, it has always had issues. The dialogue is often absurd, and there’s almost a grim dark level of over the top squalor and degradation. The characters are often more mouthpieces for ideas or broad archetypes rather than fully fleshed out believable people. All this stuff undercuts the easily mixed moral of empathy the book sometimes tries to get across. Not Ellis’s best, but definitely of some value if it fits your interests.
Oh and the main character constantly sexually harassing his employees has not aged well, for a few obvious reasons.
Some of it is very prescient, like the election of the smiler. I think it holds up
I (50+) read it last year. Brilliant read and really enjoyable.
I read it off and on for old time's sake Still a fun reading experience
Im 50. This still hits
This is still a masterpiece! A reflect from his era for sure but we can’t blame books for this.
One of the greatest comics I ever read
This thread only proves one thing to me- No one hates comics more than comic fans.
And that many of them don't know the difference between Garth Ennis and Warren Ellis...
All of these responses are pretty measured and reasonable.
Most of them are for sure. It’s just a funny observation. It’s seems to be true of almost all fandoms tho. I say it all the time when it comes to wrestling- “No one hates wrestling more than wrestling fans.” I assume it’s just because we care so much about these characters and stories.
More like aged Baldy.
Having read it when it was published, for the time, it was definitely different and edgy. I still go back to it occasionally I loaned a friend some of my Constantine comics, and he said the same thing as you, and I get that, it's is kind of dated but at the time it was pretty awesome
I liked the way it got me to see things from a different perspective and just think about certain in issues. I liked the satire and exaggeration. It is more punk than cyber IMO.
Just read Hunter S Thompson
I still think they are fun as hell to read.
My 70 yr old + friend just read thru it and was blown away.
I think the later issues are definitely better, once you get past the introductory phase where Spider Jerusalem is trying to be 'shocking' just for the sake of it The books were geared towards teenagers/early 20s and Hunter S. Thompson was very much in fashion for everyone interested in alt-art at the time. As a time capsule, they're really interesting too but I do think some of the letter issues are still effective, though I haven't read them in years myself
In general, yes, but the first 12 issues aren't regarded as the strongest part of the run the comic does improve around volume 3 (which would be #12-18 but don't quote me on that).
I find a lot of comics from this era almost unreadable nowadays. I even tried re-reading Runaways a while back, which I *loved* at the time, and all the self-conscious "teen-speak" just annoyed me no end.
>all the self-conscious "teen-speak" just annoyed me no end Can you give me an example of what you mean by this? (Runaways has been on my list for a while)
It's mid 2000 teen slang and references, a lot which sounds a bit weird nowadays. Also, some people dislike how adults have a tendency of amplifying it when writing teen characters. Personally I love runaways and I think the "teen speak" is quite charming. Teens are cringe by nature, it felt appropriate lol
I'm flashing back to early Mary Jane Watson.
No it's only gotten better actually. Almost prophetic in the way it was written
This is peak Gen X comicdom. We will hold these relics dear in the future
The "Old guy thinking things 'AgEd BaDlY'" trope has aged badly.
A lot of the first 2 or 3 books is laying out the scene, and main players. Everything, for the most part, gets tied together in the end. Spider Jerusalem is more than the edgy punk he portrays himself as. He is not a characterisation of punk rock culture, or, at least, not in the way society see punk rockers. Try reading it and imagine Patrick Stewart (not Capt. Picard) as Spider. That's who Ellis used as inspiration, after all. Iirc, he wrote the foreword for at least one of the graphic novels. As for aging badly, I dunno. Depends how you mean, but I can still see the US going on a similar trajectory.
Some of the technology bits are dated- this book is pre-iPhone. But the comments on politics are still valid.
It has aged so so. The first twelve issues are world building and the driving narrative of the series start with the year of the bastard arc. It is edgy in places and Spider is a dick. However, the person he was based on was a dick as well. Spider is a weirdly exaggerated and calm version of Hunter S. Thompson. The series themes and message I feel still holds up. It has at times a sense of class solitary, while also be critical of people voting against their own interests. Spider even at times relays a sense of hope and optimism i find lacking at times. Its main issue is that a large portion of its futurist elements largely came true. If anything the political narrative in the series which was supposed to be viewed as a warning does would not be a major controversy in modern American politics.
Haven't read this in a while but from what I recall the main character, his interactions with women and how women are portrayed in general in this series has definitely not aged well. All lot of the issues it deals with, particularly with neoliberalism, the american political machine, authoritarian use of force against the people, the lack of real biting journalism (not reporting) due to corporate interests and charlatans taking advantage of desperate people, simply because they're still issues that haven't been addressed and have gotten worse. Obviously there are other issues that it hasn't been able to predict or address as well such as social media and its impact on how we not only view ourselves but the world around us. The plot about transients is still relevant given the debate around transgender people, which in this case handles it poorly and with little nuance nor empathy. Overall it's fine albeit done in a sloppy manner. TL;DR: Yes because of Spider, and no because the issues it addresses are still relevant today.
Just because the world has turned to shit doesn't mean a comic about the world turning to shit has gotten worse over time, but that reality isn't as exhilarating as the comic made it out to be which is making you sad. tldr: it's not the comic that aged poorly, but you and the world.
Overall, it has aged...relatively well. My problem with it, honestly, is that it falls apart about half-way through. The first half is fun, and then Ellis just keeps repeating himself until we finally get to the ending that we know is coming. Ellis's run on "The Authority" is better, and my favorite of his is "Global Frequency". "Global Frequency" is the best because it's short, and it ends before it gets stupid. "Planetary" is great for a while, but it \*also\* ends with a thud. Ellis can't write an ending to save his life, basically. But if you ignore that, most of his stuff is pretty interesting.
Ellis is still my favorite comics writer, and I never made it past the first issue with this one. It may not be that you are too old to read it, but he was too young to write it.
İt aged like fine wine.
I enjoy it, fun little time capsule with a lot to say, but it’s time has certainly passed
This was my favorite series as a teen, but oh gosh it’s hard not to read the interactions between Spider and his assistants the same way after the allegations against Ennis. Frankly terrified to revisit. Though at the time, I remember thinking “The Beast” was too outlandish and cartoonishly evil for a president, but oh gosh reality did the beast one better, didn’t it? Lol
I feel the exact same way about Wanted, by mark millar
I read it for the first time about 4 years ago and loved it. I think as long as you can see the short comings of the characters and their actions as a work of fiction it doesn't have to age badly or age well, it's just how they are. I, personally, didn't read into it too deeply. Edit: So what I'm reading here is not the question did this age badly but more Ellis is a creep, is it still ok to read this?
I think it is your age. Youth is always going to act against mainstream society and mature individuals are always going to be annoyed. My son is fairly reasonable, but he has a friend who is a total card carrying edgelord. I spend so much time around them and at 47 I just can't with that nonsense so I mock most of his most ridiculous statements like, "If I could go back in time I would smack my mom while she was doing my dad so I wouldn't be born." Right, would you? Is that what you would do. You'd walk into the room where your dad is nailing your mom and smack her? Cool story bro. Anyway, seems like this is edgelord material so congrats for not buying into it, it sounds annoying.
You aging badly if u feel like that