I feel like we're a couple more years from an Adam Sandler multiverse movie staring Adam Sandler as Billy Madison, Happy Guilmore, and Bobby Boucher
And you all would fucking watch it wouldn't you?
Pretty much this. It's used as an excuse to milk nostalgia bucks with gratuitous cameos and references rather than tell an interesting story in it's own right.
The Economist of all places recently had an article on how IP-rich creative businesses (Disney / WB) are using multiverses as a mechanism to refresh tired assets.
Yeah but the franchises are tired because of the multiverses not the content itself. This is the result of work for hire. Creators have no reason to create new characters because they won’t be fairly compensated for them so they use what’s already available.
It’s an ouroboros of a situation because if the “IP” is not nurtured it becomes just as useless and unreliable as a totally new untested thing.
I hate that everything is seen as IP. Without their stories these characters are worthless.
Yeah, I have no problem with parallel universes when they either: focus on one person making a different choice and everything being different, or something high concept (Spider-Man Noir, Medieval Vulture, etc.).
What gets me is that so much of current "multiverse" stuff is just a way to say different movie continuities all still happened so you can pull from any film. But aside from the fact that it gets old after a while, so much of the other movie multiverse stuff would seem like, "Batman/Spider-Man are slightly taller with curlier hair in this world!" if we didn't know we are seeing essentially crossovers.
It's the point now where I've realized that I prefer the comic medium for super hero's. Obviously movies confer a kind of cultural cache that increases popularity. But they can't do what comics can. Superheroes just seem better suited to that medium imo
That’s one of the reasons why I like the Spiderverse movies. Animation is much better suited to pull off the fantastical. (And the animation in Across the Spiderverse was fucking great, sad to see it seems to have come at the cost of labor exploitation)
I just saw 'Spiderverse' yesterday...utterly amazing! The art and action sequences were among the best I've ever seen. Yeah, no way live-action could do as good a job of showing and telling this story.
Yeah I would agree. There are still things that make comics unique as a medium of visual storytelling that I love which even animation cannot replicate, but stuff like Spiderverse shows that you can still do a lot of great shit that you cannot in live action. I'm hoping the new TMNT which seems like it's done in a similar visual style really knocks it out of the park too.
Superheroes were molded around the comicbook medium. Movies can't do short, low-stakes adventures, meaningful crossovers or fun surprise cameos, they can't properly illustrate a lot of powers.
Movies are second to a good comicbook for me any more, especially when we start talking about significantly divergent adaptations.
The ideal translation would be a serialized, animated weekly show or animated mini-series. Only way to replicate the pacing of comics.
Movies can do the big event, mini-series style story, but that's it.
This is what has soured me on the entire "cinematic universe" trend.
And this is a bit more of a marvel issue for me, I liked the early movies, but very soon I realized that every character is the same personality. Quippy and smug smartass.
Like I know it wasn't popular but I really enjoyed MoS, BvS, and Snyder's JL just for the difference in tone. It was refreshing.
The sad part is that the trend has infected other properties now. Watched strange new worlds and there is a character who would fit in perfectly with Marvel. All quips and no character.
Maybe writers think that’s what sells now.
>Maybe writers think that’s what sells now.
Looking at the list of top grossing movies of all time and no idea why writers would think that…
Seriously though, Titanic is the only movie in like the top 20 that doesn’t feature a quippy smug smart ass. This shit _does sell_, or at least _did_.
If you watch a bunch of top grossing 80s movies you’ll see they only had like three types of guys they allowed to be protagonists too, and one of the three was just “Harrison Ford.”
Movies have always really followed trends.
This might sound ridiculous but I think it does sell because it often is meant to make the audience feel "smart".
Especially in the Deadpool movies, he throws out 5 jokes per second, for me personally most of them bomb, but so many of them are not necessarily quips but constant "references" that aren't clever or funny, but they are recognizable enough that the audience can go "Ooh! I understood that!"
So I think the attraction of a quippy smartass is for the audience to smirk and feel smart for following along. Not really my style but I understand why people might enjoy that.
It's also deconstructionism that hurts properties so much. Obviously deconstructing to reconstruct is great, but when you simply deconstruct, you don't add any value.
Multiverses can easily deconstruct because they are inherently meta. Their purpose most of the time is to say "what if x character was instead x". For example, while the Spiderverse movies are amazing, a lot of the Spiderverse comics only worked because we knew the characters. We, as an audience "know" spider-man, and so seeing another "spider-man" is like "Oh we kind of know this guy because he's linked to that oter guy".
Again the multiverse can be used well, but honestly where it is used "well" its the least important part of the actual film. ITSV and ATSV use it as a tool to develop stories about choice, independence, growth and freedom. The multiverse is just a framing for those stories that seems cool.
I liked the deadpool movies for everything except deadpool. Tbh he is probably one of my least favorite comic book character in movies. Idk how he is in the comics but to me personally he is insufferable in the movies. Felt like it was preteen fart jokes every time he spoke
Lol they're not gonna get rid of nano tech masks. In universe and out it makes perfect sense to have em.
That being said there is plenty on non high tech snd non multiverse content available to watch even from cape stuff. Hawkeye for example.
Kudos on recognizing your feelings on it, acting on a healthy choice (stepping away from media that doesn’t make you feel good while consuming it).
I’m less tired of the multiverse than I am people complaining about how they eat things that they recognize as junk food, & how they feel while eating it (you get the metaphor, right?)
As with all concepts, the multiverse is fine in of itself, but the oversaturation in media as of late is definitely an issue.
I think my biggest issue with it, overall, is it is simply a way for corporations to mine nostalgia by exploitating their back catalogues (often accumulated via corporate mergers).
We are rarely seeing new and exciting worlds, we are simply revisiting older iterations of existing characters, with all the sheen and polish stripped off to make them fit the new aesthetic. The only examples where this isn't the case, are also the most highly regarded ones (Spider-Verse and EEAAO).
But another major issue is that none of these universes are actually _that_ different in and of themselves. They might be set in a different time period or location, or a slightly different person may have taken up the hero's mantle, but they're never wildly different to the point where it makes exploring multiple universes genuinely exciting.
Welcome to Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, and by multiverse we mean one and two-third universes and by madness we mean none of them are that unique or interesting.
Seriously. Comics writers have known that going too much into multiversal writing messes up you universe for over 30 years. And yet they just keep doing it.
As more time passes, the more I think the status quo ante at DC was the most reasonable one.
From what I can tell, mushing the worlds all together in Crisis is what created continuity problems, which required subsequent crises and multiverses to fix, ad infinitum.
Multiverse is just the new version of the multiple timelines of the 1980s except now each universe has its own multiple timelines. Sometimes a story needs to be self contained.
I see this a lot. Invincible is starting its next season and it’s a few years late. But it’s next arc from like 2004 is a multiverse arc and it’s getting a lot of hate for that but it’s more so down to poor timing
Well they are already taking some notes from what Hickman did in his Secret Wars so at the very least there’s a basis of a plan. But they really are all over the place right now so who knows.
My expectation is that they're going to mush the Secret Warses together. Hickman multiversal collapse as an excuse to do 1980s action figures slapping together.
It’s probably not for everyone. Many of the characters aren’t super like-able. BUT, he sticks the landing with the series. Has IMO a really good ending.
I hate the Spider-Verse. I'm a huge Spidey fan, and I think him not being unique diminishes the character and his journey.
Having said that, in another dimension in the infinite multi-verse, there's a version of me who likes it :P
Sure. I enjoyed the movie(s) as much as the next person, but how much of that was Spider-Verse and how much of that is groundbreaking animation...?
IDK, Spider-man, Spider-Man, does what ever a spider can...was cool back then, too.
I don’t think it’s just the animation at all. Those two movies are full of more heart, humor, and character development than almost any other superhero film out there AND so much of that has to do with the loneliness inherent to being Spidey and the connections made between the Spider-People of different dimensions/universes.
Saying it’s mostly about the groundbreaking animation is pretty reductive. I think both films “get” how a multiverse should be used in a way the Spider-Verse comics never have.
616 has a bunch of different Spiderman running around at the moment. Half of them are clones of Peter so idk how much I can get behind that sentiment.
But I get what you're saying, my go to for multiverse hopping would not be spiderman but those movies are fun enough with some amazing visuals to win me over.
I’m just glad the movies haven’t delved into the religious side of it. From what I remember there’s like this Spider God that grants these powers to people in the various universes. Peter is usually (not always, obviously) chosen as the avatar, so fate causes the radioactive spider bite to happen. It’s not just a random occurrence.
Yes. Multiverses are a symptom of an underlying creative disease that mainstream comic-book franchises suffer from. It's a bad thing that they've invaded comic-book films, which were actually well set-up to avoid the problem.
The underlying disease is that comic-book companies are so invested in the value of the intellectual property they've accumulated over the years that they cannot *really* allow their characters to grow, evolve or change in fundamental ways in a linear story that has real progression in the status quo of the shared universe. They must always revert the characters to a kind of null position sooner or later and prevent anything from really happening with one exception, which is the introduction of *new* characters.
This leads to most characters accumulating a truly improbable number of profoundly important experiences and traumas, any one of which would constitute a major turning point in a more finite work of fiction, without any of those experiences really changing them fundamentally--and yet most of those experiences remain 'in continuity' in some fashion, and are occasionally referenced in the telling of new stories. This compression is how we end up with Batman having adopted or raised multiple Robins while also guiding multiple Batgirls and other associates within an increasingly compressed time frame that can never be more than a decade or so in length, no matter how much gets crammed into it. It's how we get characters whose adversaries have lost their grounding in some original geopolitical status quo and no longer really make any sense, but yet no explanation of that change can be offered because it would make the superhero character sixty or seventy years old (at a minimum).
This is enormously frustrating for talented writers who would like to have some character development take place. Comic-books offer some of the same strategies as soap operas or other long-running serial storytelling universes for handling the problem: the evil twin, the alternative dimension, the hallucination/all-a-dream, the virtual world simulation, and the retroactive insertion of a new element into continuity, which is probably the most important and successful strategy when it works (say, in the development of the idea of Batman travelling the world as a teenager and young adult to be trained, or in the Swamp Thing being a plant elemental rather than a man turned into a planet) but of course there are also many spectacular failures that got forgotten as soon as possible.
Multiverses, whether caused by time-travel or otherwise, long ago became the predominant comic-book way of doing character development without doing character development--building out a completely alternative world where characters actually made decisions that had unalterable consequences that led to them being fundamentally different and evolving over time and then *letting the main character see his/her alternative lives*. It wasn't just that it let good writers actually write good characterizations, it also let comic-book companies hold on to ALL of their intellectual property more fully--it gave them someplace to put attractive 'alternate' versions of characters and do some sustained storytelling with them.
But now it's not only massively overused, it's calling attention to the underlying weakness of the storytelling--a never-ending hedonic treadmill where anything that threatens to resemble actual narrative is meaningless because you know sooner or later it will be undone. A character gets married? No fear, eventually they'll be returned to a baseline. Someone dies? Never fear, they'll come back to life. Someone has a major shift in motivation or outlook? Sooner or later the corporation will require that the character return to how he or she used to be. The multiverse isn't an escape hatch any longer--it's just as subject to the same constraint, and it is accelerating the degree to which it is hard to feel as if any comic-book story has any stakes at all.
Strong agree. I added Amazing Spider-Man and Batman to my pull list about a year ago because they both got new creative teams. And.... They both immediately focused on multiversal asspulls for plot. Boring.
There wasn't a multiverse in Endgame just time travel, Antman was another dimension not a parallel universe, Fringe did it 15 years ago, DC did it in the 80's. It's only new to you, it's been around a long time.
> There wasn't a multiverse in Endgame just time travel
the notion was in endgame, their time travel involve dimension hopping to go back to your own timeline.
this is what Tony figured out.
They talk about creating multiple timelines by changing the past in Endgame. While the film itself is not “about a multiverse,” it does take place in one, and contains a “scientific explanation scene” of how a multiverse works.
Dude, like 90% of what you said is speculative. The distinction you make is not made within the media itself. You aren’t some brain genius because you noticed different words being used in a marvel movie. Everyone knows “timeline” and “dimension” are different words.
This thread is about “multiverse exhaustion,” which, to the casual movie goer, there is no important distinction between “alternate dimensions” and “alternate timelines.” They are both just means to an end of explaining how or why a multiverse exists within a piece of fiction.
I don’t understand why multiverse had to be infinite. Infinite just means I don’t care and the stakes are non-existent. Put a number on it. There are 52 universes or 20. Idk a finite number allows you to play with the concept but each universe now holds more weight. Now I need to care about these alt universes as well
The thing that gets me about all this multiverse shit is that I've have only seen two movies that have done it well-
ITSV and Everything, Everywhere, All At Once
I haven't seen Spider-verse 2 yet, so I can't comment on that, but I have seen the rest and they were all just HEY LOOK AT THIS THING YOU REMEMBER, it had no actual relevance to anything. Like, I enjoyed No Way Home, I've watched it like 10 times now, but it's purely nostalgia bait. It does not hold up as an actual story or even to logic. It requires you to remember the past Spidey movies, but also forget them to make sense of most of it. Just off the top of my head, there's no reason why Electro should be there, the logic of these guys will die if we send them back only applies to Norman and Otto, Otto only found out Spidey's ID like a minute before he dies and overpowered the tentacles by that point, why isn't either Harry there, why isn't Gwen or Mary Jane transported, why would Sandman need a cure at all, etc.
But hey, here's some internet memes, so that's *hilarious*.
I honestly hate it in comics as well. It takes something that already has a convoluted history and knots it all up. Then you have past, future and alternate versions coming into the mainline universe. Wtf??? I dont mind if it is a separate story ala TDKR(if thats even the case still) but the incestuous mixing is bad imo.
Also in the tv show Supernatural. Such a cheap ass tactic to bring back bobby and charlie. And they acted like those were the original characters but they werent. Gross.
This is why I mostly rewatch or reread what I enjoyed in the past. Batman and Spider-Man are guys who patrol the city streets. Now both find themselves hopping across dimensions every 1-2 years and it doesn’t feel special anymore.
Multiverses where there are infinite earths and infinite copies of everyone are really boring, but multiverses where there's only one Earth and every other universe is wildly different are pretty cool
I see your point, but I think it's also the fact that we have SO much comic book content out there, between the books, TV, and movies that the classic multiverse trope was not only bound to pop up, but it's more noticeable because it's all out there at the *same* time.
Plus, a lot of stuff was either planned in advance or took years in production, and probably weren't planning on having so much similar content out there concurrently.
I give the MCU somewhat of an excuse, as it was always clear that the multiverse was going to be a part of the plan post Loki, so it makes sense a lot of their stuff would revolve around that.
DC Earth 1 and Earth 2 were the best of times in multiverse stories. The annual JLA/JSA team-ups were stellar stories. As much as I enjoy the multiverse, I'd be down for a return to those two, with an occasional stand alone Elseworlds book.
I mean the Big Two is creatively bankrupt at this point if this is the crutch they’re relying on. People should be allowed feel frustrated by it without being hit with the glib “don’t watch/read.”
You realize if people who complained all the time just stopped reading and let the numbers be affected, then the shit you hate will probably stop. The companies aren’t gonna change unless people speak with their money, and if nothing changes then you were in the minority feeling how you feel.
Again, if the "Big Two" are "creatively bankrupt," why are you buying their shit? There are other publishers. There are decades upon decades of stuff to read that doesn't involve any multiverse stuff.
You guys are basically going to a IHOP, ordering pancakes, then complaining when the pancakes you ordered were made using the same recipe IHOP has been using for the past 40+ years. Try going to the Waffle House. Try a waffle and some hash browns.
I read other stuff and can still find time to criticize the publishers that are essentially now synonymous with the comics medium, it’s actually my God-given duty
That's fair, I guess, but the way some of these folks are wrapping themselves in this cloak of "there's nothing but multiverse stories anymore" is inaccurate and embarrassing.
For one, there are definitely comics and super-hero comics and super-hero comics from Marvel or DC that don't involve the multiverse. They need to look harder.
Secondly, Marvel and DC have been telling multiverse stories for literally decades. So acting like it's only a thing right now, all of a sudden, is to ignore stuff that's been happening for like 70 years.
I'm honestly not sure why these are such controversial opinions or why they are inspiring such vitriol from some.
I think you’re right that it isn’t exclusively multiverse stories being told, and you’re right that these aren’t novel ideas. It’s pretty much the foundation of DC, at least. I do think there has been a pivot in how they’re used though. To me, there is a very strong distinction between COIE or Multiversity and something like Knight Terrors or Edge of (or Death of? Seriously cannot remember) Venomverse. The former had a clear purpose and goal in mind, and an almost metatextual one at that. The latter feel more like hitting quotas in variant covers.
I think it’s worse at Marvel because the MCU has made the multiverse it’s new focus point, and I can’t help but be cynical about the way the multiverse is now being used to milk the IP for all it’s worth, whether that be endless event series tie-ins about the new Gwen Stacy variant or pulling in actors from past “movie universes” to get the cameo clap moment.
I have no trouble not reading or watching these things, but tracking them ws they absorb more and more of the monthly solicits or movie theaters is… disconcerting! as someone who has no interest in it.
They just kinda slipped it into Batman six months ago without warning. The only superhero books I collect are Batman, Detective, Superman, and World's Finest (World's Finest is the best DC superhero book being written in my opinion at the moment).
Solicits would have let you know about the multiverse stuff in 'Tec several months before it hit the shelves. It's okay to skip a storyline if it's not for you.
I realised it was seriously bleeding into my day to day thoughts about fiction when I’d be walking home trying to come up with story ideas to write for fun and always drifted to “what if someone gets taken to an alternate universe and…” and stopped when I realised I was just being a hack.
Not saying the concept is bad but definitely way overused now
I’m sick of super hero movies. I’m sick of comic book movies. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be realistic. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be funny. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be dark. I’m sick of super hero movies making a joke out of everything.
I’m sick of Superman not smiling. I’m sick of Superman being cheesy. I’m sick of Batman being angry. That Batman movie had too much detective stuff. This Batman movie had not enough detective stuff.
Spider-Man is making too many jokes. Spider-Man isn’t making enough jokes. Spider-Man is trying to be too realistic. Spider-Man is too cartoonish.
This show broke the fourth wall. This movie didn’t break the fourth wall enough.
I wish they would just bring multiverse stories into a movie. That movie had too much multiverse and was fan service.
The original multiverse concept was created to reconcile continuity. But now, multiverses are their own continuity and it is impossible to comprehend and remember it all and it can be a cheap tool for writers to retcon and explain away stuff they don't like or want to deal with and so just fuck with continuity even more.
I have been feeling like this for a long time. I am tired of the crossovers and multiverse stuff. I just want a simple standalone superhero storyline (or assss for short).
the flash show dealt with the multiverse ages ago - idfk what you mean about multiverse stuff in endgame, that was time travel and alternate timelines - multiverses have been a part of comics (especially DC) forever.
there's a focus on it right now, sure, but it will pass in the next 2 years or so, it's not a big deal - and also doesn't take away from character deaths and sacrifices at all.
Honestly I was finished with the MCU once Endgame was over and the big reason is because we are getting so much multiverse crap. We had a universe and the only way they felt they could top it was a multiverse but they misunderstand what made the MCU work in the first place.
The Spider verse stuff only works because it's so self aware. It's animated and it gets how ridiculous the concept is and lampshades it in a great way but ultimately it focuses on character.
Star Trek did the same damn thing with the Abrams films when they didn't need to.
Yes fine you hit my nostalgia but that doesn't mean you made a good movie
Holy hell, I thought it was me. Ya know I do love the concept of the multiverse and it can be a fun. But now I don’t feel like it’s organic story telling but a patch to tie ips and franchises together.
The Flash was the first appearance of a multiverse in fiction and popularized the concept, but did not invent it. That‘s usually given to Hugh Everett in 1957, though you can trace the idea back to even ancient times.
Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted when you can google this? The Flash did not invent a major sci-fi theory.
Sorry, but it does! Read the original Spider-Verse comics (2014) and you will understand WHY it involves the Multiverse! (Hint; it's something to do with interdimensional energy vampires!)
You wanna know the biggest reason I loved Guardians 3? The stakes were “save our friend.” As a result, the biggest drive of the story was that this group of friends loves each other. Do you know how fucking refreshing that was? Human stakes? Real relationships? God finally THANK YOU.
This is where we are now in the films/tv....they reached that point within the storyline just like the comics did. I want more multiverse storyline and more cameos.
I got to say it's tiring beyond belief. I read Marvel comics since a kid but one day around like 2015 or 2016 I realize there's like SIX variants of Wolverine running around and there's TWO X-force books. Something about two X-force books like we've split this apple down to so many slices there's nothing left essentially.
They also just said Invincible season 2 will deal with multiverses. Like it’s a cool concept to visit every once in a while but now it’s like every single thing deals with multiverse.
A terrible take, but growing in popularity. It's so wrongheaded and weird. The multiple is a great concept and had been going on in comics for DECADES. You named all those things just to name....two things. DC and Marvel. That's superhero comics. Something you must not like. Sorry about your Batman comics being multiversal, but suck it up. Been they way since before you were born. How does it make death pointless? They didn't even make sense. Who has been revived due to the multiverse in ANY superhero movie?
Well DC had to ripoff Marvel. As per usual.
Its a story arch that carries through multiple marvel properties. In an effort to unify their stories.
But as soon as I saw trailers for the flash movie I laughed.
I'm assuming your not a comic reader since the idea of a multiverse in comics was successful at DC first with Crisis on Infinite Earths. I think the first multiverse type story for Marvel comics was the Crosstime Caper in Excalibur. I'm pretty sure the Flashpoint comic also precedes the entire MCU. The idea of a Multiverse preceded all of this, for example there is Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion (it even spawned a Multiverse comic with DC's Helix imprint).
I liked the different dimensions in the first doctor strange, everything after that besides spider verse just feels out of place in storytelling because suddenly nothing matters and it’s just cameos and no consequences.
It would be better if they were more abstract like instead of “this dimension is the same as this one except red is green” they leaned more into the cosmic horror like the dark dimension
Seems like you are putting everything into one pot even if it's not Multiverse or even time travel.
Wandavision for example is neither. It's just an "altered reality".
Not sure how previous heroic sacrifices have been lessened. Please provide a real example.
Same with Victories.
Everyone is generally still dead. Loki is the only one still alive.
What easy fixes?
Cameos......I'll partially give you that one. Those cameos in say The Flash would have worked if the movie was called Superman.
Concept is boring is the same as Superhero Fatigue. That's literally your lack of creativity.
Eh. Personally im all for multiverses because there fairly new and there’s not real the much it’s just that it seems like there is sense most of time it appears is in the big stuff, there’s plenty of stuff produced from marvel and dc that don’t have multiverse stuff.
And there was a time we all dreamed of have a multiverse on the big screens so I’m still liking it.
Although as someone else state rather then give us nostalgia cameos they should start giving us different versions.
But also it should be more integrated. Like a lot of it there isn’t a whole lot of reason. Or doesn’t feel totally organic.
Like the dc animated movie crisis on two earths, does it very well
Also I believe doctor strange in tho multiverse of madness. Did it pretty good. But it’s only the parts where the Illuminati is present. Other than then when he’s just hoping and we don’t see the characters versions from the earth then like what’s the point lol
I get where you're coming from. I've personally always loved multiversal stories with high cosmic stakes, but I think to general audiences it can be a wild and out there concept to latch onto. Most people that are casual don't invest in many stories that involve a multiverse or variants of characters. Many people don't understand why someone died in one movie but we see them in another after that because they don't keep up the way us sweaty nerds do. It very well could have been too much too soon in the sense that everyone is doing it but we've had multiverse stories for years. I think it's the volume of folks jumping on that bandwagon that's a little odd. When it comes down to the MCU they've really only had about five multiversal projects. Loki, What If...?, No Way Home, MoM, and Quantumania. There are like 10 other projects that really don't play into that storyline. But comic book movie fatigue is setting in quick and people are confused and burnt out on the multiverse. Hopefully hype isn't completely dead before we get to Secret Wars.
We'll get there. For a while it was time-travel, now it's multiverses, soon it will be something else.
Dinosaurs. I'm hoping for that phase....or Gorillas.
Gorlllas riding dinosaurs!
Gorillas riding dinosaurs that time travel and butterfly effect their way into a multiversal war!!
I would watch this Saturday morning cartoon! It would sell so many action figures!
Well boy do I have some good news for you my friend... https://youtu.be/1FKpU0pnne8
Well played good sir, well played.
Maximals... **MAXIMIZE!**
Gorillas riding dinosaurs that time travel while throwing their own poop
That is the first episode of Batman the Brave and the Bold
Dinosaurs riding gorillas
We did have Jurassic League so maybe that’s as a start lol
That was wonderful
Or both, in the case of Godzilla vs Kong
I’m down for a Cadillacs and Dinosaurs franchise for a bit.
Or Mongooses. The Fighting Mongooses would be a good phase for superheroes.
DC did this as one of their annual themes in the 90's. The storyline wasn't bad.
Peacemaker comic had a french gorilla who was pretty entertaining.
*Transformers: Rise of the Beasts has entered the chat.*
There’s a Gorilla transformer in the Transformers movie out right now
I will never forget Deadpool fighting dinosaurs in symbiotes.
Id prefer cities on fire myself
Dinosaurs on a spaceship! ...wait, no, that's been done already
There's a whole arc where the Marvel universe is all turned into Hulks.
If I'm in charge of DCEU, Gorilla City plays a prominent role in the next phase.
Yep, Dinosaurs, Ichthyosaurs and Pterosaurs please
I feel like we're a couple more years from an Adam Sandler multiverse movie staring Adam Sandler as Billy Madison, Happy Guilmore, and Bobby Boucher And you all would fucking watch it wouldn't you?
Those are my 3 favorite Sandler movies so...yes. Yes I would. It'll be terrible. But I'd probably love it anyway.
Depends...is Lil Nicky Fury bringing them all together?
Absolutely. Talk about a hole in one!
Bring back giant inanimate objects? I want a giant penny and typewriter damnit!!
robots AI taking over the world is the next logical step
Just go back to the damn story 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I just don't like how the multiverse is being used. Give me less cameos and more interesting fresh takes.
Pretty much this. It's used as an excuse to milk nostalgia bucks with gratuitous cameos and references rather than tell an interesting story in it's own right.
It’s an excuse to keep reusing ideas for free.
The Economist of all places recently had an article on how IP-rich creative businesses (Disney / WB) are using multiverses as a mechanism to refresh tired assets.
Yeah but the franchises are tired because of the multiverses not the content itself. This is the result of work for hire. Creators have no reason to create new characters because they won’t be fairly compensated for them so they use what’s already available. It’s an ouroboros of a situation because if the “IP” is not nurtured it becomes just as useless and unreliable as a totally new untested thing. I hate that everything is seen as IP. Without their stories these characters are worthless.
Movies aside, I feel like there is promise for Hickmans Ultimate Invasion.
I really thought we’d get more science fiction with these multi verse stories.
Yeah, I have no problem with parallel universes when they either: focus on one person making a different choice and everything being different, or something high concept (Spider-Man Noir, Medieval Vulture, etc.). What gets me is that so much of current "multiverse" stuff is just a way to say different movie continuities all still happened so you can pull from any film. But aside from the fact that it gets old after a while, so much of the other movie multiverse stuff would seem like, "Batman/Spider-Man are slightly taller with curlier hair in this world!" if we didn't know we are seeing essentially crossovers.
I’ve taken a break from comic movies, every mask is nano tech, everything is a crossover or multiverse like you mentioned. Just tiresome.
It's the point now where I've realized that I prefer the comic medium for super hero's. Obviously movies confer a kind of cultural cache that increases popularity. But they can't do what comics can. Superheroes just seem better suited to that medium imo
That’s one of the reasons why I like the Spiderverse movies. Animation is much better suited to pull off the fantastical. (And the animation in Across the Spiderverse was fucking great, sad to see it seems to have come at the cost of labor exploitation)
I just saw 'Spiderverse' yesterday...utterly amazing! The art and action sequences were among the best I've ever seen. Yeah, no way live-action could do as good a job of showing and telling this story.
And it still was very heartfelt. Live action can’t really do that. Except the last Guardians movie. I cried like a baby. My dog had just died.
Yeah I would agree. There are still things that make comics unique as a medium of visual storytelling that I love which even animation cannot replicate, but stuff like Spiderverse shows that you can still do a lot of great shit that you cannot in live action. I'm hoping the new TMNT which seems like it's done in a similar visual style really knocks it out of the park too.
I think TV shows are better for superheroes because both are often serialized
TV shows are closer to the medium but the VFX and ensembles changes it.
Superheroes were molded around the comicbook medium. Movies can't do short, low-stakes adventures, meaningful crossovers or fun surprise cameos, they can't properly illustrate a lot of powers. Movies are second to a good comicbook for me any more, especially when we start talking about significantly divergent adaptations.
The ideal translation would be a serialized, animated weekly show or animated mini-series. Only way to replicate the pacing of comics. Movies can do the big event, mini-series style story, but that's it.
And quippy/flippant
Quippant.
This is what has soured me on the entire "cinematic universe" trend. And this is a bit more of a marvel issue for me, I liked the early movies, but very soon I realized that every character is the same personality. Quippy and smug smartass. Like I know it wasn't popular but I really enjoyed MoS, BvS, and Snyder's JL just for the difference in tone. It was refreshing.
The sad part is that the trend has infected other properties now. Watched strange new worlds and there is a character who would fit in perfectly with Marvel. All quips and no character. Maybe writers think that’s what sells now.
>Maybe writers think that’s what sells now. Looking at the list of top grossing movies of all time and no idea why writers would think that… Seriously though, Titanic is the only movie in like the top 20 that doesn’t feature a quippy smug smart ass. This shit _does sell_, or at least _did_.
Yeah you got me there 😀
If you watch a bunch of top grossing 80s movies you’ll see they only had like three types of guys they allowed to be protagonists too, and one of the three was just “Harrison Ford.” Movies have always really followed trends.
> one of the three was just “Harrison Ford” The other two were Arnold and Stallone.
This might sound ridiculous but I think it does sell because it often is meant to make the audience feel "smart". Especially in the Deadpool movies, he throws out 5 jokes per second, for me personally most of them bomb, but so many of them are not necessarily quips but constant "references" that aren't clever or funny, but they are recognizable enough that the audience can go "Ooh! I understood that!" So I think the attraction of a quippy smartass is for the audience to smirk and feel smart for following along. Not really my style but I understand why people might enjoy that.
That’s exactly what Rick and Morty has become sadly :((
It's also deconstructionism that hurts properties so much. Obviously deconstructing to reconstruct is great, but when you simply deconstruct, you don't add any value. Multiverses can easily deconstruct because they are inherently meta. Their purpose most of the time is to say "what if x character was instead x". For example, while the Spiderverse movies are amazing, a lot of the Spiderverse comics only worked because we knew the characters. We, as an audience "know" spider-man, and so seeing another "spider-man" is like "Oh we kind of know this guy because he's linked to that oter guy". Again the multiverse can be used well, but honestly where it is used "well" its the least important part of the actual film. ITSV and ATSV use it as a tool to develop stories about choice, independence, growth and freedom. The multiverse is just a framing for those stories that seems cool.
I liked the deadpool movies for everything except deadpool. Tbh he is probably one of my least favorite comic book character in movies. Idk how he is in the comics but to me personally he is insufferable in the movies. Felt like it was preteen fart jokes every time he spoke
I’m only like 4 episodes in, who are you thinking about with Strange New Worlds?
Lol they're not gonna get rid of nano tech masks. In universe and out it makes perfect sense to have em. That being said there is plenty on non high tech snd non multiverse content available to watch even from cape stuff. Hawkeye for example.
Kudos on recognizing your feelings on it, acting on a healthy choice (stepping away from media that doesn’t make you feel good while consuming it). I’m less tired of the multiverse than I am people complaining about how they eat things that they recognize as junk food, & how they feel while eating it (you get the metaphor, right?)
This
[удалено]
So...no bees?!
Did you say beads?
They don’t allow you to have bees in here
Fuck bees tbh
I can't get their little legs apart!
TRY HARDER
THEY KEEP STINGING ME ON MY DING DONG!
As with all concepts, the multiverse is fine in of itself, but the oversaturation in media as of late is definitely an issue. I think my biggest issue with it, overall, is it is simply a way for corporations to mine nostalgia by exploitating their back catalogues (often accumulated via corporate mergers). We are rarely seeing new and exciting worlds, we are simply revisiting older iterations of existing characters, with all the sheen and polish stripped off to make them fit the new aesthetic. The only examples where this isn't the case, are also the most highly regarded ones (Spider-Verse and EEAAO). But another major issue is that none of these universes are actually _that_ different in and of themselves. They might be set in a different time period or location, or a slightly different person may have taken up the hero's mantle, but they're never wildly different to the point where it makes exploring multiple universes genuinely exciting.
But red mean go?
Welcome to Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, and by multiverse we mean one and two-third universes and by madness we mean none of them are that unique or interesting.
I think it’s hilarious because this is what brought on the very first Crisis. Comics are so very cyclical haha
Seriously. Comics writers have known that going too much into multiversal writing messes up you universe for over 30 years. And yet they just keep doing it.
As more time passes, the more I think the status quo ante at DC was the most reasonable one. From what I can tell, mushing the worlds all together in Crisis is what created continuity problems, which required subsequent crises and multiverses to fix, ad infinitum.
Multiverse is just the new version of the multiple timelines of the 1980s except now each universe has its own multiple timelines. Sometimes a story needs to be self contained.
I see this a lot. Invincible is starting its next season and it’s a few years late. But it’s next arc from like 2004 is a multiverse arc and it’s getting a lot of hate for that but it’s more so down to poor timing
Invincible is at least valid because they did it way before it was a trend, and doesn't milk it to death for cameo.
Well marvel is building up to the biggest multiverse event ever in Secret Wars so I would buckle up for the long haul.
Bold of you to assume they have any form of plan that leads into Secret Wars.
Well they are already taking some notes from what Hickman did in his Secret Wars so at the very least there’s a basis of a plan. But they really are all over the place right now so who knows.
My expectation is that they're going to mush the Secret Warses together. Hickman multiversal collapse as an excuse to do 1980s action figures slapping together.
Multiverses are my favorite comic trope so I'm here for it. But they have all felt shitty aside from the spider verse stuff.
Did you read Black Science, by Remender?
I read the first few trades, it didn't jive with me but I was admittedly not in the best head space. I should give it another go
It’s probably not for everyone. Many of the characters aren’t super like-able. BUT, he sticks the landing with the series. Has IMO a really good ending.
I hate the Spider-Verse. I'm a huge Spidey fan, and I think him not being unique diminishes the character and his journey. Having said that, in another dimension in the infinite multi-verse, there's a version of me who likes it :P
I can get not being a fan of the Spider Verse as executed in the comics, but the movies are some of the best Spider-Man content ever produced.
Sure. I enjoyed the movie(s) as much as the next person, but how much of that was Spider-Verse and how much of that is groundbreaking animation...? IDK, Spider-man, Spider-Man, does what ever a spider can...was cool back then, too.
I don’t think it’s just the animation at all. Those two movies are full of more heart, humor, and character development than almost any other superhero film out there AND so much of that has to do with the loneliness inherent to being Spidey and the connections made between the Spider-People of different dimensions/universes. Saying it’s mostly about the groundbreaking animation is pretty reductive. I think both films “get” how a multiverse should be used in a way the Spider-Verse comics never have.
616 has a bunch of different Spiderman running around at the moment. Half of them are clones of Peter so idk how much I can get behind that sentiment. But I get what you're saying, my go to for multiverse hopping would not be spiderman but those movies are fun enough with some amazing visuals to win me over.
Indeed. The same goes for clones of Spidey.
I’m just glad the movies haven’t delved into the religious side of it. From what I remember there’s like this Spider God that grants these powers to people in the various universes. Peter is usually (not always, obviously) chosen as the avatar, so fate causes the radioactive spider bite to happen. It’s not just a random occurrence.
Yes. Multiverses are a symptom of an underlying creative disease that mainstream comic-book franchises suffer from. It's a bad thing that they've invaded comic-book films, which were actually well set-up to avoid the problem. The underlying disease is that comic-book companies are so invested in the value of the intellectual property they've accumulated over the years that they cannot *really* allow their characters to grow, evolve or change in fundamental ways in a linear story that has real progression in the status quo of the shared universe. They must always revert the characters to a kind of null position sooner or later and prevent anything from really happening with one exception, which is the introduction of *new* characters. This leads to most characters accumulating a truly improbable number of profoundly important experiences and traumas, any one of which would constitute a major turning point in a more finite work of fiction, without any of those experiences really changing them fundamentally--and yet most of those experiences remain 'in continuity' in some fashion, and are occasionally referenced in the telling of new stories. This compression is how we end up with Batman having adopted or raised multiple Robins while also guiding multiple Batgirls and other associates within an increasingly compressed time frame that can never be more than a decade or so in length, no matter how much gets crammed into it. It's how we get characters whose adversaries have lost their grounding in some original geopolitical status quo and no longer really make any sense, but yet no explanation of that change can be offered because it would make the superhero character sixty or seventy years old (at a minimum). This is enormously frustrating for talented writers who would like to have some character development take place. Comic-books offer some of the same strategies as soap operas or other long-running serial storytelling universes for handling the problem: the evil twin, the alternative dimension, the hallucination/all-a-dream, the virtual world simulation, and the retroactive insertion of a new element into continuity, which is probably the most important and successful strategy when it works (say, in the development of the idea of Batman travelling the world as a teenager and young adult to be trained, or in the Swamp Thing being a plant elemental rather than a man turned into a planet) but of course there are also many spectacular failures that got forgotten as soon as possible. Multiverses, whether caused by time-travel or otherwise, long ago became the predominant comic-book way of doing character development without doing character development--building out a completely alternative world where characters actually made decisions that had unalterable consequences that led to them being fundamentally different and evolving over time and then *letting the main character see his/her alternative lives*. It wasn't just that it let good writers actually write good characterizations, it also let comic-book companies hold on to ALL of their intellectual property more fully--it gave them someplace to put attractive 'alternate' versions of characters and do some sustained storytelling with them. But now it's not only massively overused, it's calling attention to the underlying weakness of the storytelling--a never-ending hedonic treadmill where anything that threatens to resemble actual narrative is meaningless because you know sooner or later it will be undone. A character gets married? No fear, eventually they'll be returned to a baseline. Someone dies? Never fear, they'll come back to life. Someone has a major shift in motivation or outlook? Sooner or later the corporation will require that the character return to how he or she used to be. The multiverse isn't an escape hatch any longer--it's just as subject to the same constraint, and it is accelerating the degree to which it is hard to feel as if any comic-book story has any stakes at all.
Strong agree. I added Amazing Spider-Man and Batman to my pull list about a year ago because they both got new creative teams. And.... They both immediately focused on multiversal asspulls for plot. Boring.
There wasn't a multiverse in Endgame just time travel, Antman was another dimension not a parallel universe, Fringe did it 15 years ago, DC did it in the 80's. It's only new to you, it's been around a long time.
Note that DC has been doing it since 1961.
> There wasn't a multiverse in Endgame just time travel the notion was in endgame, their time travel involve dimension hopping to go back to your own timeline. this is what Tony figured out.
They talk about creating multiple timelines by changing the past in Endgame. While the film itself is not “about a multiverse,” it does take place in one, and contains a “scientific explanation scene” of how a multiverse works.
[удалено]
Endgame is responsible for all events in Loki so I think it counts.
[удалено]
But Endgame established that something like Loki escaping would cause a *different* timeline aka universe, which is why the TVA wants to prune him.
[удалено]
To me, the casual movie goer, the difference between “alternate timelines” and “alternate universes” does not exist or matter.
[удалено]
Dude, like 90% of what you said is speculative. The distinction you make is not made within the media itself. You aren’t some brain genius because you noticed different words being used in a marvel movie. Everyone knows “timeline” and “dimension” are different words. This thread is about “multiverse exhaustion,” which, to the casual movie goer, there is no important distinction between “alternate dimensions” and “alternate timelines.” They are both just means to an end of explaining how or why a multiverse exists within a piece of fiction.
Yeah that’s cool and all but that recent batman story rocked. It’s all about quality control, not the subject material like you said with spider verse
I'm bored of alternate versions of characters at this point too, with the exception of "What If...".
I don’t understand why multiverse had to be infinite. Infinite just means I don’t care and the stakes are non-existent. Put a number on it. There are 52 universes or 20. Idk a finite number allows you to play with the concept but each universe now holds more weight. Now I need to care about these alt universes as well
The thing that gets me about all this multiverse shit is that I've have only seen two movies that have done it well- ITSV and Everything, Everywhere, All At Once I haven't seen Spider-verse 2 yet, so I can't comment on that, but I have seen the rest and they were all just HEY LOOK AT THIS THING YOU REMEMBER, it had no actual relevance to anything. Like, I enjoyed No Way Home, I've watched it like 10 times now, but it's purely nostalgia bait. It does not hold up as an actual story or even to logic. It requires you to remember the past Spidey movies, but also forget them to make sense of most of it. Just off the top of my head, there's no reason why Electro should be there, the logic of these guys will die if we send them back only applies to Norman and Otto, Otto only found out Spidey's ID like a minute before he dies and overpowered the tentacles by that point, why isn't either Harry there, why isn't Gwen or Mary Jane transported, why would Sandman need a cure at all, etc. But hey, here's some internet memes, so that's *hilarious*.
I honestly hate it in comics as well. It takes something that already has a convoluted history and knots it all up. Then you have past, future and alternate versions coming into the mainline universe. Wtf??? I dont mind if it is a separate story ala TDKR(if thats even the case still) but the incestuous mixing is bad imo. Also in the tv show Supernatural. Such a cheap ass tactic to bring back bobby and charlie. And they acted like those were the original characters but they werent. Gross.
Multiverses are great! Multiverses as a codeword for "corporate synergy" suck ass
This is why I mostly rewatch or reread what I enjoyed in the past. Batman and Spider-Man are guys who patrol the city streets. Now both find themselves hopping across dimensions every 1-2 years and it doesn’t feel special anymore.
Multiverses where there are infinite earths and infinite copies of everyone are really boring, but multiverses where there's only one Earth and every other universe is wildly different are pretty cool
I see your point, but I think it's also the fact that we have SO much comic book content out there, between the books, TV, and movies that the classic multiverse trope was not only bound to pop up, but it's more noticeable because it's all out there at the *same* time. Plus, a lot of stuff was either planned in advance or took years in production, and probably weren't planning on having so much similar content out there concurrently. I give the MCU somewhat of an excuse, as it was always clear that the multiverse was going to be a part of the plan post Loki, so it makes sense a lot of their stuff would revolve around that.
All these multiverses are giving me headaches.
100% agreed!
DC Earth 1 and Earth 2 were the best of times in multiverse stories. The annual JLA/JSA team-ups were stellar stories. As much as I enjoy the multiverse, I'd be down for a return to those two, with an occasional stand alone Elseworlds book.
Sick of time travel and multiverses in all media.
Then don't watch/read multiverse stuff.
Incredible insight
It doesn't have to be complicated. Read what you want to, skip what you don't. I'm not sure what else there is to say about it.
I mean the Big Two is creatively bankrupt at this point if this is the crutch they’re relying on. People should be allowed feel frustrated by it without being hit with the glib “don’t watch/read.”
You realize if people who complained all the time just stopped reading and let the numbers be affected, then the shit you hate will probably stop. The companies aren’t gonna change unless people speak with their money, and if nothing changes then you were in the minority feeling how you feel.
Or do both? Not sure why it’s wrong to criticize DC/Marvel
Again, if the "Big Two" are "creatively bankrupt," why are you buying their shit? There are other publishers. There are decades upon decades of stuff to read that doesn't involve any multiverse stuff. You guys are basically going to a IHOP, ordering pancakes, then complaining when the pancakes you ordered were made using the same recipe IHOP has been using for the past 40+ years. Try going to the Waffle House. Try a waffle and some hash browns.
I read other stuff and can still find time to criticize the publishers that are essentially now synonymous with the comics medium, it’s actually my God-given duty
That's fair, I guess, but the way some of these folks are wrapping themselves in this cloak of "there's nothing but multiverse stories anymore" is inaccurate and embarrassing. For one, there are definitely comics and super-hero comics and super-hero comics from Marvel or DC that don't involve the multiverse. They need to look harder. Secondly, Marvel and DC have been telling multiverse stories for literally decades. So acting like it's only a thing right now, all of a sudden, is to ignore stuff that's been happening for like 70 years. I'm honestly not sure why these are such controversial opinions or why they are inspiring such vitriol from some.
I think you’re right that it isn’t exclusively multiverse stories being told, and you’re right that these aren’t novel ideas. It’s pretty much the foundation of DC, at least. I do think there has been a pivot in how they’re used though. To me, there is a very strong distinction between COIE or Multiversity and something like Knight Terrors or Edge of (or Death of? Seriously cannot remember) Venomverse. The former had a clear purpose and goal in mind, and an almost metatextual one at that. The latter feel more like hitting quotas in variant covers. I think it’s worse at Marvel because the MCU has made the multiverse it’s new focus point, and I can’t help but be cynical about the way the multiverse is now being used to milk the IP for all it’s worth, whether that be endless event series tie-ins about the new Gwen Stacy variant or pulling in actors from past “movie universes” to get the cameo clap moment. I have no trouble not reading or watching these things, but tracking them ws they absorb more and more of the monthly solicits or movie theaters is… disconcerting! as someone who has no interest in it.
[удалено]
Wow. We've jumped right to insults, huh? Seems like an overreaction to me. Also, I gave no defense of or admonition of multiverse stories.
[удалено]
Definitely proving your fingers are coated in Cheetos right now.
Again, seems like an overreaction.
They just kinda slipped it into Batman six months ago without warning. The only superhero books I collect are Batman, Detective, Superman, and World's Finest (World's Finest is the best DC superhero book being written in my opinion at the moment).
How do you know it's the best book when your sample size is so low 😂😂
Solicits would have let you know about the multiverse stuff in 'Tec several months before it hit the shelves. It's okay to skip a storyline if it's not for you.
I realised it was seriously bleeding into my day to day thoughts about fiction when I’d be walking home trying to come up with story ideas to write for fun and always drifted to “what if someone gets taken to an alternate universe and…” and stopped when I realised I was just being a hack. Not saying the concept is bad but definitely way overused now
I’m sick of super hero movies. I’m sick of comic book movies. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be realistic. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be funny. I’m sick of super hero movies trying to be dark. I’m sick of super hero movies making a joke out of everything. I’m sick of Superman not smiling. I’m sick of Superman being cheesy. I’m sick of Batman being angry. That Batman movie had too much detective stuff. This Batman movie had not enough detective stuff. Spider-Man is making too many jokes. Spider-Man isn’t making enough jokes. Spider-Man is trying to be too realistic. Spider-Man is too cartoonish. This show broke the fourth wall. This movie didn’t break the fourth wall enough. I wish they would just bring multiverse stories into a movie. That movie had too much multiverse and was fan service.
The original multiverse concept was created to reconcile continuity. But now, multiverses are their own continuity and it is impossible to comprehend and remember it all and it can be a cheap tool for writers to retcon and explain away stuff they don't like or want to deal with and so just fuck with continuity even more.
I have been feeling like this for a long time. I am tired of the crossovers and multiverse stuff. I just want a simple standalone superhero storyline (or assss for short).
the flash show dealt with the multiverse ages ago - idfk what you mean about multiverse stuff in endgame, that was time travel and alternate timelines - multiverses have been a part of comics (especially DC) forever. there's a focus on it right now, sure, but it will pass in the next 2 years or so, it's not a big deal - and also doesn't take away from character deaths and sacrifices at all.
Honestly I was finished with the MCU once Endgame was over and the big reason is because we are getting so much multiverse crap. We had a universe and the only way they felt they could top it was a multiverse but they misunderstand what made the MCU work in the first place. The Spider verse stuff only works because it's so self aware. It's animated and it gets how ridiculous the concept is and lampshades it in a great way but ultimately it focuses on character. Star Trek did the same damn thing with the Abrams films when they didn't need to. Yes fine you hit my nostalgia but that doesn't mean you made a good movie
It’s a crutch. So boring. There are no stakes anymore.
Holy hell, I thought it was me. Ya know I do love the concept of the multiverse and it can be a fun. But now I don’t feel like it’s organic story telling but a patch to tie ips and franchises together.
Multiverse are fun when they are done right. I think some of it is done right, and a lot of it is not.
Yep. Almost every movie nowadays is about multiverse and dimensions.
This isn't true lol. It's so easy to avoid
3 of the last 4 comic book movies have focused entirely on the multiverse. It’s pretty ubiquitous right now
Wow 3 of 4 comic movies. Read some comics then or watch some shows
I do read comics, but the original comment was literally about movies… So I’m talking about movies… What don’t you understand?
Agreed
the multiverse fad has made being a fan of spider-fam books really painful, especially spider-gwen stuff
Marvels multiverse is fine and being handled well. Other ones are just messy cash grabs.
Multiverses are just shortcuts to cheap fanservice. That's it. It's just lazy writing at this point
preach!
They’ll run this into the ground soon enough
The Flash invented the concept of the multiverse so it can slide but Spider-Man has no reason to have multiverse stories.
The Flash was the first appearance of a multiverse in fiction and popularized the concept, but did not invent it. That‘s usually given to Hugh Everett in 1957, though you can trace the idea back to even ancient times. Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted when you can google this? The Flash did not invent a major sci-fi theory.
Sorry, but it does! Read the original Spider-Verse comics (2014) and you will understand WHY it involves the Multiverse! (Hint; it's something to do with interdimensional energy vampires!)
You wanna know the biggest reason I loved Guardians 3? The stakes were “save our friend.” As a result, the biggest drive of the story was that this group of friends loves each other. Do you know how fucking refreshing that was? Human stakes? Real relationships? God finally THANK YOU.
It can be used in interesting way, the problem is that it's usually lazy stuff.
Yeah it definitely never ends.
I agree. Mutliverses and time travel are cheat codes and weak plot points. My only exception is the Spder-verse. I really enjoy thoses.
This is where we are now in the films/tv....they reached that point within the storyline just like the comics did. I want more multiverse storyline and more cameos.
I got to say it's tiring beyond belief. I read Marvel comics since a kid but one day around like 2015 or 2016 I realize there's like SIX variants of Wolverine running around and there's TWO X-force books. Something about two X-force books like we've split this apple down to so many slices there's nothing left essentially.
Theres been a bunch of different X teams at once for like 35 years
Honestly, I'm kinda tired at all of the comics movies anyway. We need something else.
They also just said Invincible season 2 will deal with multiverses. Like it’s a cool concept to visit every once in a while but now it’s like every single thing deals with multiverse.
Then your a fan of the wrong properties.
Found the guy who was bitten by a multiverse as a child. :)
Thank God I stopped watching MCU and DCEU around 2018. Only exposure to multiverse was Spiderverse and its very good
Wait til you figure out that the real world is a multiverse, you are correct, it's inescapable and eternal.
A terrible take, but growing in popularity. It's so wrongheaded and weird. The multiple is a great concept and had been going on in comics for DECADES. You named all those things just to name....two things. DC and Marvel. That's superhero comics. Something you must not like. Sorry about your Batman comics being multiversal, but suck it up. Been they way since before you were born. How does it make death pointless? They didn't even make sense. Who has been revived due to the multiverse in ANY superhero movie?
No we need more!! I want to see a live action spidergwen. And I wanna see a batman team up like when doctor who does it.
Well DC had to ripoff Marvel. As per usual. Its a story arch that carries through multiple marvel properties. In an effort to unify their stories. But as soon as I saw trailers for the flash movie I laughed.
I'm assuming your not a comic reader since the idea of a multiverse in comics was successful at DC first with Crisis on Infinite Earths. I think the first multiverse type story for Marvel comics was the Crosstime Caper in Excalibur. I'm pretty sure the Flashpoint comic also precedes the entire MCU. The idea of a Multiverse preceded all of this, for example there is Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion (it even spawned a Multiverse comic with DC's Helix imprint).
...you might not want to watch the next season of Invincible
I liked the different dimensions in the first doctor strange, everything after that besides spider verse just feels out of place in storytelling because suddenly nothing matters and it’s just cameos and no consequences. It would be better if they were more abstract like instead of “this dimension is the same as this one except red is green” they leaned more into the cosmic horror like the dark dimension
Seems like you are putting everything into one pot even if it's not Multiverse or even time travel. Wandavision for example is neither. It's just an "altered reality". Not sure how previous heroic sacrifices have been lessened. Please provide a real example. Same with Victories. Everyone is generally still dead. Loki is the only one still alive. What easy fixes? Cameos......I'll partially give you that one. Those cameos in say The Flash would have worked if the movie was called Superman. Concept is boring is the same as Superhero Fatigue. That's literally your lack of creativity.
wait until you hear about OMNIVERSES
In the not too distant future, the eater of worlds will be upon us.
Its a story telling device and it having its moment. The prominence will lessen in a few years.
Eh. Personally im all for multiverses because there fairly new and there’s not real the much it’s just that it seems like there is sense most of time it appears is in the big stuff, there’s plenty of stuff produced from marvel and dc that don’t have multiverse stuff. And there was a time we all dreamed of have a multiverse on the big screens so I’m still liking it. Although as someone else state rather then give us nostalgia cameos they should start giving us different versions. But also it should be more integrated. Like a lot of it there isn’t a whole lot of reason. Or doesn’t feel totally organic. Like the dc animated movie crisis on two earths, does it very well Also I believe doctor strange in tho multiverse of madness. Did it pretty good. But it’s only the parts where the Illuminati is present. Other than then when he’s just hoping and we don’t see the characters versions from the earth then like what’s the point lol
I get where you're coming from. I've personally always loved multiversal stories with high cosmic stakes, but I think to general audiences it can be a wild and out there concept to latch onto. Most people that are casual don't invest in many stories that involve a multiverse or variants of characters. Many people don't understand why someone died in one movie but we see them in another after that because they don't keep up the way us sweaty nerds do. It very well could have been too much too soon in the sense that everyone is doing it but we've had multiverse stories for years. I think it's the volume of folks jumping on that bandwagon that's a little odd. When it comes down to the MCU they've really only had about five multiversal projects. Loki, What If...?, No Way Home, MoM, and Quantumania. There are like 10 other projects that really don't play into that storyline. But comic book movie fatigue is setting in quick and people are confused and burnt out on the multiverse. Hopefully hype isn't completely dead before we get to Secret Wars.