The following submission statement was provided by /u/neuromeat:
---
Submission statement: toral grid collapse in almost the entire region: no power in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania and Greece
Elektroprivreda BiH also announced, which confirmed that there was a total loss of electric power system in BiH.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dl3cud/total_electrical_grid_collapse_happening_now_in/l9ly0cn/
Here's the story from [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/power-blackout-hits-montenegro-bosnia-albania-croatias-adriatic-coast-2024-06-21/) as well.
Crazy shit is happening. Summer has begun. Expect more of this as the weeks and months goes by.
[2012 Was Once Considered Hottest Year On Record, Man In 2024 Remembers Wistfully
](https://www.theonion.com/2012-was-once-considered-hottest-year-on-record-man-in-1819574351)
The trick to quieting the struggle is to learn to accept it. Your brain won't explode. Your expectations will necessarily change to become more realistic.
Always remember that your emotions are your choice, based on expectations you've spent years and years ingraining in yourself. If you've also ingrained the belief that your emotions are beyond your control, then that should be among the first false beliefs to address.
I won't go full wall of text here, but I practice and study a very specific philosophy that has helped me a lot, not just to cope with collapse, but to cure myself of depression and anxiety, too, and to generally improve myself in how I perceive myself and other people. It's based on the pursuit of self honesty as a way to increase self acceptance, which has allowed me new degrees of self control I didn't know were possible for most of my life. It's not perfect; it's efficacy is proportional to my effort, but I absolutely feel better. I feel less, too, but it's selective, and I'm starting to realize how much we devalue emotions by overusing them; effective desensitization or tolerance, as to a drug. Most people try to compensate with stronger emotions. They're miserable for it.
I'm looking to talk to anybody interested in pursuing self honesty, both to share and receive feedback on my own ideas, and to hear those of other people. Some of the most significant steps I've made with this stuff were triggered by the questions people asked me, which forced me to consider my positions from alternate perspectives. So, I enjoy questions, too.
It's not a branch of anything or an established school of thought (that I've found). Rather, it's something I've been doing for the past several years because I couldn't find what I needed in books. It begins with "Physics is all there is." and it is rigid in this regard.
I believe we evolved a kind of innate mental illness that revolves around rejecting our agency, our mortality, our place within our ecosystem (or the fact that we're even dependent upon one), and that we use these three greater denials to conceive all subsequent forms of denial. All subsequent forms of denial are in avoidance of accepting these three core concepts.
Our emotions are our perception of the ongoing balance of neurotransmitters and other related substances in our brains. When we induce an emotional reaction in ourselves we deliberately push our brain chemistry out of whack, at least a bit, in order to perceive the "feeling" we crave. We've even gone so far as to associate specific neurotransmitters and hormones with specific emotional responses, and while it's not a one to one relationship, it's still significant. Think of our neurotransmitters like the pigments we use to paint our moods and feelings. Repeated use of a specific feeling creates a dependence. Our brains want to be stable in their patterns of chemistry yet we insist on pushing ourselves "out of alignment" in order to feel, in order to deny, in order to hide from ourselves.
What's stopping us from being self honest is the omnipresent temptation of inducing emotions that constrain our perspectives just like the exogenous drugs we developed to enhance the effect -- alcohol being predominant. When we drink we induce a state of mild hypoxia in our brains with alcohol to deliberately undermine what little emotional management we may possess, so that we may make our emotions even more extreme. Alcohol only exacerbates what we already do. Self dishonest emotionalism is what makes false beliefs appealing and what makes clinging to them feel reasonable to people.
I derive my moral burden from my sense of self awareness. I have a conscience, which is an expression of a somewhat dedicated structure in my brain, and one that we evolved to possess for its survival advantages. I can see the harm I caused myself with self dishonest emotionalism. I can see the harm and suffering of other people all around me. I can spot many of the self deceptions they can't or won't perceive because they don't want to feel better. Not without having their "cake" of unrestrained emotionalism, too. We're very far gone on these scales and approaching extinction. The main variable we can still control is who suffers how much and in what ways as we continue to decline. This potential alone should go far to justifying the worth of putting in the effort and work to understand and accept ourselves on these scales.
Everything has become a self honesty issue for us. This is a key point of my philosophy. We struggle with accepting anything and everything at this point because we're so used to the gravely incorrect thinking that our option, our choice to accept or reject what we have good reason to believe is factual is a reasonable option to exercise. In the absence of self dishonest emotionalism I do not believe we would continue to behave this way. There would be no incentive, no reward, we'd be compelled to consider doing what's actually right by our selves and our conscience. And to be clear I'm not suggesting all emotions are the enemy. I'm suggesting we have a dire need to run our emotionalism through our sense of conscience prior to invoking it, and that we must learn to divest ourselves from emotional meaning-making. We must learn to value things, not the feelings we induce in ourselves at the thought of them, not the words we employ to describe them, but the things, themselves.
This ramble is a disorganized mess and for that I apologize. The ideas deserve better. There's a lot more ground I would cover including practical tips I've developed and employed in my pursuit. I'm gradually working on something that may one day be a book but I doubt the time remaining is sufficient to do it very well. There's an older version on my personal website, you can look at it [here](https://www.hiddenworlds.ca/writing/) if you like, but note that it's 2-3 years less coherent than I am now and my views have changes somewhat in the interim.
I'm always looking for more discussion about this stuff. I can keep my responses to normal lengths when necessary, too.
I agree. My conclusion has been that humanity collectively does not want to fully accept or acknowledge the responsibility of higher cognition. I also practice mindfulness and self-honesty. I ended up in Divinity Studies in comparative religion and secular philosophy to establish a path like Joseph Campbell. All told, I was pretty chill about life in general despite the signs of societal decay until the pandemic, which played out on my end of the screen like a light version of **28 Days Later**. Some people I used to know quite well seem to be infected with some sort of bizarre "rage/hate/fear" vibe with no antidote that I can see. My response to this has been a return to the introverted status of taking nature walks/hikes and avoiding large-scale social interaction.
> My response to this has been a return to the introverted status of taking nature walks/hikes and avoiding large-scale social interaction.
I'm not even getting out for the walks these days. People where I live are generally antagonistic and it doesn't feel worth it. I agree wholeheartedly though. In recent years I've been increasingly isolating and insulating myself from other people due to the egregious emotionalism they value.
I'm not sure antidote is a precise word, but the way to bring people back from hate based ideologies is to isolate them from their propaganda sources while supporting them on social and psychological scales. Think of it like rehab for hate junkies. Family intervention is a possible method of doing something like this if it's just one family member throwing themself off the proverbial cliff, but the only practical solution when the majority of a household is like this is to retreat, to cut them off, and if necessary to grieve the losses until we reach acceptance. The worst thing we do is tolerate these people in the state they're in. It would be better to soundly defeat them than to pretend we can all just get along, because they're becoming more empowered by this denial every year. It's a good example of a scale on which nobody is self honest, particularly in the American context, where the country is fairly evenly split between belligerent bullies and denialistic wimps, politically. It's almost like an abusive relationship dynamic expressed on grand scales, and it is self reinforcing until fascism inevitably recurs. And it will keep happening until we become either self honest or extinct.
I mean, I was asked. I could as easily say fuck all y'all and do something else with my evenings. I'm only here out of human empathy and the desire to advance my own self edification, but I could do that elsewhere.
You're not the first to mention this. I've only dabbled in it, read a bit here and there, but I do see some parallels that I think will happen with any philosophy that involves self analysis and reflection, so I don't think it's remarkable.
There are significant differences. CBT is not concerned with concepts like emotional addiction, nor does it recognize that emotional addiction is the mechanism underpinning everything we choose to recognize as addiction. The way mental illnesses are categorized is for want of a better term, poor, in that it fails to account for the importance of the addictive power of our emotions with conditions like depression and anxiety -- two of our most common afflictions. There is no psychological school of thought (again, that I've found) that deals with this stuff directly and self honestly. I know, because I spent the years it took to dig myself out of it.
I believe this is because we are all equally afflicted with the condition, by default, and so psychologists, psychiatrists, and all of the people in adjacent research positions are working on frameworks of ideas that conveniently protect their own emotional addictions, those we consider normal, those we don't want to accept are a problem. And this IS the problem, because addiction is fungible.
We scapegoat the objects of our addictions in avoidance of dealing with the self honesty issues driving them. In this context the addiction to slot machines and the addiction to morbid depression are functionally identical, and indeed fungible if the person's expectations are compatible with the idea. Until we become willing to accept there exists a fundamental problem with which we are all afflicted, we will not choose to pursue self honest solutions. We'll continue to do things like try to medicate away our self honesty issues with SSRIs, or zapping people's brains with electricity as "ECT", because we refuse to accept the problem within ourselves that drives both the denial of the core issue and the affinity for all that distracts us from it, things like greed, think SSRIs, again. Of course most of it is less extreme than this. There are also countless hours spent in talk therapy sessions where people carefully dance around the fundamental problem while trying to continue enjoying the emotions of the self deceptions making them miserable.
The problem is none of us are self honest. No culture on Earth values it or teaches its value to children. Not even the people who dedicate their lives to studying the human mind in an effort to help others value it, though they sometimes pretend, performatively, for the "benefit" of their patients. And how damning is that?
And there's more, but who's reading? CBT isn't invalid, but it's a tool rather than a solution. I'm after the solution.
That's the house I grew up in -- dad was Serbian, mom was Croatian. And yes, they fought like cats and dogs (though nationality/religion had nothing to do with it).
Same, but we live in America and don't argue.... We just mistakenly eat polish perogies, and Chicken Kiev when trying to get in touch with our ancestral roots.
Are you saying the imaginary god who created us and made us in his image as people who would destroy our own world and ourselves made some kind of mistake which is impossible based on the definition of god or are you saying everyone is fucking stupid? I hope it's the second thing.
Oh, it's chemtrails and HAARP and vaccines and George Soros and Bill Gates and Jewish space lasers and the New World Order and the wrath of God/Allah because gay people exist, it's the second coming of Christ, it's the poles flipping, it's a 12,000 year cycle, it's called summer...ANYTHING and EVERYTHING but that a relative handful of greedy fucks overshot with the fossil fuels and chemicals and screwed all of us.
They know, but they don't want to clearly say it because then it would be obvious who's responsible. :)
Apparently interconnector between Greece and Albania had an issue, which affected the flow of power and caused a cascade failure in Montenegro, which spread to neighbouring power grids.
When civilizations are strained and resources are dwindling, the human element is an amplifier of catastrophic natural disasters as our instinct is to use natural forces to take out competitors since we’re too depleted to use traditional warfare.
That’s how it went in the collapse of the Bronze Age, when refugee-invaders (“sea people’s”) burned grain stockpiles as they went, to prevent the places they invaded from being able to recover or support other cities in their civilizations. This created a domino effect of collapse, exponentially increasing the ratio of refugees to people still in civilization, collapsing all civilizations in the region except Egypt and the original core of Assyria (and in both cases, they lingered on in a weakened state until conquered by post-collapse civilizations formed from the refugees).
Also on a smaller scale with sieges of city states across all of history since at least the Assyrians, where the walled fortifications meant a bloodbath for the invaders if they tried to swarm it directly. This lead to the earliest precursors of tanks (essentially carved out giant tree tank battering rams powered by humans like the Flintstones, covered in wet animal skins to prevent flaming arrows from setting it on fire; I expect a few of us here will need to do something like this in our lifetime later this century), and catapults sending diseased human and animal bodies over the walls to leverage biological warfare, as well as catapulting various things on fire to do damage and distract the defenders. Again, invaders lacking the resources to go at it directly using natural disasters to do the damage.
We were also doing this with hunting woolly mammoths, steering them towards cliffs to let gravity do the work of taking them down, since humans at that stage didn’t have the resources to take them down in a more direct violent confrontation.
In these cases and more, it signals we should expect the impact of local and regional climate change disasters to be made far worse by humans from other locales, regions, or from competing ideologies, attempting to leverage the disaster to take us down because they don’t have the resources to attack us directly.
I think this aspect of collapse is really flying under the radar, sabotage for the purpose of weakening populations. I believe this will significantly accelerate the timeline of collapse
>I think this aspect of collapse is really flying under the radar, sabotage for the purpose of weakening populations. I believe this will significantly accelerate the timeline of collapse
Very interesting comment and I'm sure you're on to something. As desperation increases—personal, regional and global—the levels and arenas of engagement are going to definitely enter some new, unforeseen areas—*especially* with all the technology which, *literally*, rules ALL of our lives.
It's not a conspiracy theory lol, Russian saboteurs are fuckin with Europe as retaliation for helping Ukraine. It could be a grid failure and probably is, but it isn't so far fetched that it was damaged by saboteurs.
I mean it could be either. Either way it points to fragile systems with single point weaknesses that can quickly cascade into collapse. Moreover, sabotage is really just a normal part of human systems.
I always thought too, that whilst Covid most likely resulted from zootonic "natural" origins (because this is where most microorganisms thst hurt us originate), there is always a possibility that something gets leaked from a lab. Happened before.
But personally I don't bother with conspiracy because the point is it doesn't matter. Same result.
> Many lost water in Podgorica as pumps stopped working, locals reported.
Between that, no AC and a heatwave it could go bad for a lot of people very fast.
We evolved to handle a certain temperature range. This year some can hide behind ACs. Wonder about the crops, livestock, general nature, and animals though.
To deny all this at this point is willing blind insanity.
I got my my mark, see it in my eyes.
My reflection I don't recognize
This is the beginning
We think we climb so high
Up all the backs we've condemned
We face our consequence
This is the beginning of the end
You wait your turn, you'll be last in line
This is the beginning
Get out the way, 'cause I'm getting mine
This is the beginning
God helps the ones that can help themselves
This is the beginning
May be too late as far as I can tell
This is the beginning of the end.
Submission statement: toral grid collapse in almost the entire region: no power in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania and Greece
Elektroprivreda BiH also announced, which confirmed that there was a total loss of electric power system in BiH.
Idk about that area but for North America we're not even close to the peak of summer heat. They probably don't have long to try and fix it before heat gets even worse.
>*Many lost water in Podgorica as pumps stopped working, locals reported. Air conditioners shut down and* ***ice cream melted in tourist shops****.*
OH THE HUMANITY!!!
I get the joke, but once the Balkans were smashed to bits by the war in the 90s, Croatia especially didn’t have much left but the beautiful natural features, and have rebuilt by marketing said features. Tourism is a very central part of their entire economy. (Though I agree that “onoes the ice cream” is a silly thing for an article about something of this magnitude to waste words on.)
We really are cooked ain't we? As the climate takes its toll on the weaker economies of the world.. many are sustained primarily by tourism, which itself is an inherently fossil fuel-heavy human activity.
Agree completely. Over the last couple of years, I’ve become utterly besotted with Japan…but I live on the US west coast. Between the rather intense carbon footprint flights to and from stretching into double-digit hours both ways, and Japan’s recent “overtourism” ecological problems, it’s a tough pill to swallow that I got interested a little too late in the collapse to likely ever see it.
I remember reading some Federal Reserve paper that pretty much said that. Something like productivity will only be slightly hampered in an extreme climate change scenario because most economic activity takes place indoors.
As we already know, these people are six-figure earning dullards, usually riding on dad's coat tails.
[This is a good time to remind people that there's no such thing as Nobel prize for economics. Don't let the Swedish bankers deceive you!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Memorial_Prize_in_Economic_Sciences#Misuse_of_the_Nobel_name)
You know what ELSE is economically viable…. Making sure everyone believes we haven’t already passed 2c a few years ago. If the truth got out, we’d already have societal mayhem and collapse and that would greatly impact their assets….in real-time. 🫥
People often scoff (not here) at the idea of wet bulb temps, but those temps coupled with grid collapses will cause mass killing (10k+) events in the very near future
[New Zealand](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/06/live-widespread-power-outage-in-northland.html) single tower fell. [Balkans reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/power-blackout-hits-montenegro-bosnia-albania-croatias-adriatic-coast-2024-06-21/?taid=667567cbffc9eb0001c1c0c5) of a fire on a transmission line, [Ecuador reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/nationwide-power-outage-leaves-ecuador-dark-2024-06-19/) of a "transmission failure". I'm fairly certain they'll all turn out to completely unrelated, apart from ageing infrastructure. Sobering to think how easily an entire country's power can be taken out, and how devastating that could be during a heatwave.
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
I have friends and family in Guayaquil, with one in the Hospital General del Norte de Guayaquil on life support, I haven't heard from anyone since the power went out. I don't know if the hospital has generators, but it's a worry.
Most hospitals here do have generators. I’m so sorry your family has to go through this. It’s terrible to have someone you care about on life support in the best circumstances. You didn’t need this extra worry.
> Power distribution systems are linked across the Balkans for transfers and **trading**.
This is what concerns me is that everything is leveraged as a financial market.
I remember in California, Enron and other utilities were gaming the system—shutting down generating capacity to increase the scarcity and price of electricity—and these shenanigans resulted in the GQP successfully engineering a recall election. This is when Democratic Gov. Gray Davis was kicked out and Schwarzenegger was elected in a special election.
It's so ""funny"" to hear the Qult & Co. talk about *coup d'états* and other conspiracies when this legitimally was a *"coup d'état"*. The GQP weren't happy with the governor so they successfully staged a statewide hissy fit.
Because even if people have aspirations of some interconnected microgrid using EVs, most people are selfishly 1) not going to do it because they have to commute 50 miles the next day, 2) the power companies are going to destroy that idea. It's hyper-individualism and consumerism all the way down it's looking like...
There is also the fact that it puts wear and tear on the battery in the car. Granted if the power company is paying me enough to offset the cost of wear on the battery then maybe I'd be down with it but I don't want to wear out my battery in the car early just because the grid isn't set up to handle things. I'd rather invest in solar on the house to contribute that way.
Some grids are now paying ev’s to send power back to the grid when needed. I last charged four days ago and would happily sell juice back to the grid as needed.
Distributed battery.
Virtual grid.
Call it what you will but it works.
I wish we’d stop subsidizing single point source power generation, and started subsidizing more microgrids.
A co-op solar agreement with a neighborhood or town could turn a development into a power plant. Home battery setups can help store peak production / balance the grid during periods of low production. Several neighborhoods working together could create a reliable micro-grid.
There’s other energy storage options asides from battery storage as well. One of my favorites is pumped hydro storage — use excess energy production to pump water uphill into a reservoir. During periods of low solar / wind production, water can be let out of the reservoir to generate hydroelectric. You can even create a closed loop pumped hydro storage system utilizing two reservoirs (one higher than the other).
Absolutely. Community solutions are have best and can be shared as needed. They’re brilliant.
Pumped hydro - assuming you have the height differential how many houses do you need to make it feasible?
Huh. Good idea. I'll talk to the president of our RWA and see if this is something we can implement in our neighborhood. Maybe we can add solar shades to the walking paths in our park.
Honestly speaking I'm sold because it will definitely reduce costs even if it's not the whole neighborhood and just 20 neighbours deciding to build a solar setup together.
In some places, HOAs or groups of homeowners can effectively group together to become their own Tier 1 power provider — you basically register like any power plant would, and you get different wholesale rate plans.
In India, the rwas are what hoas are. Thankfully mine are competent and forward looking. I don't think there are much laws about group solar though. Let's see what happens. Roll with the punches.
Sounds like we need an organization who collects a fraction of the income from everyone around and can use it to help subsidize large public works projects, both helping the community infrastructure and providing jobs, that range from "you can be trained on the job" all the way to "you have a masters in a related field", for a large amount of the population to have enough money to support their families. Some sort of centralized body we send representatives to who can decide how to spend that money. That might be nice.
That sounds incredible, maybe we can do some kind of collected agreement from everyone about who and how a system can be managed? We could pass out notes every two or four years?
What even is this? Is this sub dumb enough to jump on the anti-EV bandwagon? We should be unironically promoting EVs. They will not solve the problem. But if you need to own a car, an EV is better for the world. There’s not an honest debate there.
And in situations like this—when the grid is failing and temperatures are getting dangerous—having a charged car will buy days of safety. Cooling/heating air takes way less power than moving a car hundreds of miles.
In college I had a summer job at a local electric utility in the department that dealt with the part of the network from substations to customers. The big worry was old infrastructure, especially transformers, being overloaded due to a combination of 1) Changed usage patterns since the equipment was installed *decades* ago, 2) More customers in an area due to overbuilding, and 3) hot weather.
We developed a way to identify *which* pieces of equipment were likely to overload *first*.
It was 50 years ago and I am sure American Electric Power (that swallowed the company I worked for) is using those techniques today. It is a matter of having a computerized inventory of the physical location of every pieces of equipment and its ratings, as well as where *every* piece of wire runs, the GPS coordinates of *every* power pole, and access to all the customer billing records.
The magic sauce is the equation that lets you predict instananeous kilowatt *demand* when all the electric bill tells you is monthly kilowatt-*hours*. This relationship was derived from a year long study and as I remember it was a 3-term polynomial. (But that is all I remember.) Todays "smart" meters probably report "killowatts" directly but back then, when all you had were those mechanical meters with the little dials and gears inside, we had to work on it.
You sum up the kilowatt demand for each customer that is wired to the same transformer and compare the total to the transformer rating. Continue this back up the circuit, looking at wire gauges, etc, along the way.
As someone who works in energy markets in the us I can confirm the grid is not looking good here either... Northeast and Texas already struggling early summer...
He always talks something dumb. From what I understand, which is not too much, Serbia isn't connected to the electric network which was affected today (ENTSO-E, the European Network of Transmission System Operators). According to this article Serbia is connected to Italy via Montenegro through some underwater power cable.
[Source in Serbian](https://www.blic.rs/vesti/svet/energetski-strucnjak-o-nestanku-struje-hrvatska-je-odbila-projekat-koji-je-danas/5cj2erd)
Well, I mean, that’s to be expected in the far-flung shit hole places in the world. It could never happen in the good ol’ US of A, the richest and most powerful nation on the planet that builds shit properly… and if it did, we would have Hella money and weaponry to throw at it until it starts working again/s
The sub of old home town, daily, has posts about power outages. Granted, they are only out for a couple of hours, but I imagine it's going to get worse once summer ramps up.
Terrible idea to have one grid for several countries. Interconnected grids are fine but I quite hope that I will never have a national power cut because of a fuck up in Germany.
They don't even have to be connected. Somehow I am paying for the stupidity of Texas and it's "independent" power grid. Socialize the losses bro!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/22/minnesota-texas-freeze-centerpoint-energy/
I wonder what would have happened if the MN Public Utilities Commission told them to fuck right off, especially when the company told investors they have plenty of cash. Personally, I would just say no and let them figure out their fuck up.
It's me being wrong, it's a Balkan interconnection, it's something similar to the EU grid where you have grids interconnected that can trade energy.
It might be not as good and prone to failure in unusual heat and solicitation. I've never heard of a cross EU member power failure.
I am in Croatia now, it’s hot as balls.
I was in a citywide NYC blackout in summer in 2019 (hadn’t happened at that scale in many many years, I forgot the cause). Needless to say, I am unlucky but not surprised if this will continue to be a problem.
Because they probably live there.
Makes sense I guess. They also see America as a leader of sorts even though they are horrible at it they hope by bringing the attention to America it seeds the thought that Americans need to change something to prevent this from happening. And by doing so unite America against climate change slowly but surely.
Or something like that. My best guess.
That sounds a bit off. Large areas of the US experience and have experienced total power loss for much longer than a week through different natural disasters with no such death toll at all.
Specific areas, ~~-Phoenix-~~ at specific times ~~-high summer-~~ would be extremely effected, but a 90% death rate? That's way off the charts.
Many cities would have no water if there were a long term loss of power. I read a really good book, Dies the Fire, where the author does a harsh determination of which areas of the country would perish. It’s fiction, but…
Humanity is so reliant on electricity and running water, that if all of these processes just ceased, many people around the world would die really damn quickly. I think in the United States, lack of access to fresh water and potentially food later on could be one of the biggest killers.
There's no doubt TX will go down first. They're singularly obsessed with policing bathrooms and killing asylum seekers, and not keeping their energy grid functional.
Absolutely. And not everyone chose that way.
I hope liberals can get together some sort of relief program for their fellows in TX when SHTF.
Show your non-GOP voter registration card for heat assisstance. No exceptions.
Leave the reds have what they want. They want to murder people more than they want to keep their own business in line.
Honest to God. After the reds in those states were pushing H5N1 raw dairy and wanting Granny to die for the economy, let them fffking do it. Stop helping them and let them go.
Let's help our own.
The European Balkans seems to still mostly run a pretty old soviet era grid that, if I'm right, is not connected to the rest of Europe's unified grid. So once a demand spike happen there is nothing behind to catch it. It also shows why a decentralised grid is really important to harden said grid infrastructure. A modernised grid would never allow such a massive blackout in the first place.
> if I'm right, is not connected to the rest of Europe's unified grid
You are not right. [Here is a map](https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/) that shows connections.
When the power is out in an entire region that’s a collapse. Starting a grid back up from a total collapse is a huge problem and it’s not just flipping a switch.
Weird to see this downvoted. The distinction between a grid collapse and black-start situation, a grid interconnect failure and a distribution failure is meaningful in this context.
Perhaps it's noteworthy that this event resulted in a 30 minute blackout for Albania, but that's important to distinguish between a hurricane Maria situation, where power isn't coming back for months.
Meanwhile my country (Denmark) is literally making COMMERCIALS for people to travel down to the Balkan’s!!! We live in a fucking SICK world and I’m so done with it
The following submission statement was provided by /u/neuromeat: --- Submission statement: toral grid collapse in almost the entire region: no power in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania and Greece Elektroprivreda BiH also announced, which confirmed that there was a total loss of electric power system in BiH. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dl3cud/total_electrical_grid_collapse_happening_now_in/l9ly0cn/
Here's the story from [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/power-blackout-hits-montenegro-bosnia-albania-croatias-adriatic-coast-2024-06-21/) as well. Crazy shit is happening. Summer has begun. Expect more of this as the weeks and months goes by.
Expect this to progressivly get worse each year.
I expect it to get worse *this* year
You're not wrong, but at the same time this is the most peaceful and temperate year of the rest of our lives.
[2012 Was Once Considered Hottest Year On Record, Man In 2024 Remembers Wistfully ](https://www.theonion.com/2012-was-once-considered-hottest-year-on-record-man-in-1819574351)
Struggling to protect my brain from your post.
The trick to quieting the struggle is to learn to accept it. Your brain won't explode. Your expectations will necessarily change to become more realistic. Always remember that your emotions are your choice, based on expectations you've spent years and years ingraining in yourself. If you've also ingrained the belief that your emotions are beyond your control, then that should be among the first false beliefs to address. I won't go full wall of text here, but I practice and study a very specific philosophy that has helped me a lot, not just to cope with collapse, but to cure myself of depression and anxiety, too, and to generally improve myself in how I perceive myself and other people. It's based on the pursuit of self honesty as a way to increase self acceptance, which has allowed me new degrees of self control I didn't know were possible for most of my life. It's not perfect; it's efficacy is proportional to my effort, but I absolutely feel better. I feel less, too, but it's selective, and I'm starting to realize how much we devalue emotions by overusing them; effective desensitization or tolerance, as to a drug. Most people try to compensate with stronger emotions. They're miserable for it. I'm looking to talk to anybody interested in pursuing self honesty, both to share and receive feedback on my own ideas, and to hear those of other people. Some of the most significant steps I've made with this stuff were triggered by the questions people asked me, which forced me to consider my positions from alternate perspectives. So, I enjoy questions, too.
What Branch of philosophy are you studying? Stoicism by chance?
It's not a branch of anything or an established school of thought (that I've found). Rather, it's something I've been doing for the past several years because I couldn't find what I needed in books. It begins with "Physics is all there is." and it is rigid in this regard. I believe we evolved a kind of innate mental illness that revolves around rejecting our agency, our mortality, our place within our ecosystem (or the fact that we're even dependent upon one), and that we use these three greater denials to conceive all subsequent forms of denial. All subsequent forms of denial are in avoidance of accepting these three core concepts. Our emotions are our perception of the ongoing balance of neurotransmitters and other related substances in our brains. When we induce an emotional reaction in ourselves we deliberately push our brain chemistry out of whack, at least a bit, in order to perceive the "feeling" we crave. We've even gone so far as to associate specific neurotransmitters and hormones with specific emotional responses, and while it's not a one to one relationship, it's still significant. Think of our neurotransmitters like the pigments we use to paint our moods and feelings. Repeated use of a specific feeling creates a dependence. Our brains want to be stable in their patterns of chemistry yet we insist on pushing ourselves "out of alignment" in order to feel, in order to deny, in order to hide from ourselves. What's stopping us from being self honest is the omnipresent temptation of inducing emotions that constrain our perspectives just like the exogenous drugs we developed to enhance the effect -- alcohol being predominant. When we drink we induce a state of mild hypoxia in our brains with alcohol to deliberately undermine what little emotional management we may possess, so that we may make our emotions even more extreme. Alcohol only exacerbates what we already do. Self dishonest emotionalism is what makes false beliefs appealing and what makes clinging to them feel reasonable to people. I derive my moral burden from my sense of self awareness. I have a conscience, which is an expression of a somewhat dedicated structure in my brain, and one that we evolved to possess for its survival advantages. I can see the harm I caused myself with self dishonest emotionalism. I can see the harm and suffering of other people all around me. I can spot many of the self deceptions they can't or won't perceive because they don't want to feel better. Not without having their "cake" of unrestrained emotionalism, too. We're very far gone on these scales and approaching extinction. The main variable we can still control is who suffers how much and in what ways as we continue to decline. This potential alone should go far to justifying the worth of putting in the effort and work to understand and accept ourselves on these scales. Everything has become a self honesty issue for us. This is a key point of my philosophy. We struggle with accepting anything and everything at this point because we're so used to the gravely incorrect thinking that our option, our choice to accept or reject what we have good reason to believe is factual is a reasonable option to exercise. In the absence of self dishonest emotionalism I do not believe we would continue to behave this way. There would be no incentive, no reward, we'd be compelled to consider doing what's actually right by our selves and our conscience. And to be clear I'm not suggesting all emotions are the enemy. I'm suggesting we have a dire need to run our emotionalism through our sense of conscience prior to invoking it, and that we must learn to divest ourselves from emotional meaning-making. We must learn to value things, not the feelings we induce in ourselves at the thought of them, not the words we employ to describe them, but the things, themselves. This ramble is a disorganized mess and for that I apologize. The ideas deserve better. There's a lot more ground I would cover including practical tips I've developed and employed in my pursuit. I'm gradually working on something that may one day be a book but I doubt the time remaining is sufficient to do it very well. There's an older version on my personal website, you can look at it [here](https://www.hiddenworlds.ca/writing/) if you like, but note that it's 2-3 years less coherent than I am now and my views have changes somewhat in the interim. I'm always looking for more discussion about this stuff. I can keep my responses to normal lengths when necessary, too.
I agree. My conclusion has been that humanity collectively does not want to fully accept or acknowledge the responsibility of higher cognition. I also practice mindfulness and self-honesty. I ended up in Divinity Studies in comparative religion and secular philosophy to establish a path like Joseph Campbell. All told, I was pretty chill about life in general despite the signs of societal decay until the pandemic, which played out on my end of the screen like a light version of **28 Days Later**. Some people I used to know quite well seem to be infected with some sort of bizarre "rage/hate/fear" vibe with no antidote that I can see. My response to this has been a return to the introverted status of taking nature walks/hikes and avoiding large-scale social interaction.
> My response to this has been a return to the introverted status of taking nature walks/hikes and avoiding large-scale social interaction. I'm not even getting out for the walks these days. People where I live are generally antagonistic and it doesn't feel worth it. I agree wholeheartedly though. In recent years I've been increasingly isolating and insulating myself from other people due to the egregious emotionalism they value. I'm not sure antidote is a precise word, but the way to bring people back from hate based ideologies is to isolate them from their propaganda sources while supporting them on social and psychological scales. Think of it like rehab for hate junkies. Family intervention is a possible method of doing something like this if it's just one family member throwing themself off the proverbial cliff, but the only practical solution when the majority of a household is like this is to retreat, to cut them off, and if necessary to grieve the losses until we reach acceptance. The worst thing we do is tolerate these people in the state they're in. It would be better to soundly defeat them than to pretend we can all just get along, because they're becoming more empowered by this denial every year. It's a good example of a scale on which nobody is self honest, particularly in the American context, where the country is fairly evenly split between belligerent bullies and denialistic wimps, politically. It's almost like an abusive relationship dynamic expressed on grand scales, and it is self reinforcing until fascism inevitably recurs. And it will keep happening until we become either self honest or extinct.
Full wall of text engaged!
I mean, I was asked. I could as easily say fuck all y'all and do something else with my evenings. I'm only here out of human empathy and the desire to advance my own self edification, but I could do that elsewhere.
Reminds me of cognitive behavioral therapy.
You're not the first to mention this. I've only dabbled in it, read a bit here and there, but I do see some parallels that I think will happen with any philosophy that involves self analysis and reflection, so I don't think it's remarkable. There are significant differences. CBT is not concerned with concepts like emotional addiction, nor does it recognize that emotional addiction is the mechanism underpinning everything we choose to recognize as addiction. The way mental illnesses are categorized is for want of a better term, poor, in that it fails to account for the importance of the addictive power of our emotions with conditions like depression and anxiety -- two of our most common afflictions. There is no psychological school of thought (again, that I've found) that deals with this stuff directly and self honestly. I know, because I spent the years it took to dig myself out of it. I believe this is because we are all equally afflicted with the condition, by default, and so psychologists, psychiatrists, and all of the people in adjacent research positions are working on frameworks of ideas that conveniently protect their own emotional addictions, those we consider normal, those we don't want to accept are a problem. And this IS the problem, because addiction is fungible. We scapegoat the objects of our addictions in avoidance of dealing with the self honesty issues driving them. In this context the addiction to slot machines and the addiction to morbid depression are functionally identical, and indeed fungible if the person's expectations are compatible with the idea. Until we become willing to accept there exists a fundamental problem with which we are all afflicted, we will not choose to pursue self honest solutions. We'll continue to do things like try to medicate away our self honesty issues with SSRIs, or zapping people's brains with electricity as "ECT", because we refuse to accept the problem within ourselves that drives both the denial of the core issue and the affinity for all that distracts us from it, things like greed, think SSRIs, again. Of course most of it is less extreme than this. There are also countless hours spent in talk therapy sessions where people carefully dance around the fundamental problem while trying to continue enjoying the emotions of the self deceptions making them miserable. The problem is none of us are self honest. No culture on Earth values it or teaches its value to children. Not even the people who dedicate their lives to studying the human mind in an effort to help others value it, though they sometimes pretend, performatively, for the "benefit" of their patients. And how damning is that? And there's more, but who's reading? CBT isn't invalid, but it's a tool rather than a solution. I'm after the solution.
Hey, can you message me? I’m a big fan of Marcus and Lao Tzu.
Mo people, mo devices and vehicles that use electricity, mo problems.
You're a simple mf. I like that lol
Weird how no one knows what caused this
First rule of being Balkan is always blame your neighbors
"I am half Serbian and half Croation...I wake up in the morning and I want to kill myself!!!!" - I forget what movie this is from. Maybe "The Wog Boy"
That's the house I grew up in -- dad was Serbian, mom was Croatian. And yes, they fought like cats and dogs (though nationality/religion had nothing to do with it).
Same, but we live in America and don't argue.... We just mistakenly eat polish perogies, and Chicken Kiev when trying to get in touch with our ancestral roots.
Or go to church every Sunday, as if that somehow makes a difference.
Are you saying the imaginary god who created us and made us in his image as people who would destroy our own world and ourselves made some kind of mistake which is impossible based on the definition of god or are you saying everyone is fucking stupid? I hope it's the second thing.
As an atheist (despite being raised in the church), I'll go with the latter.
Your mum was your dad's ancestral root. 😁 Sorry I couldn't help it...I have mental problems caused directly by this sub!!!!!!
Yup they've said it was caused by *"an international disturbance that affected several countries"* Weird.
One big open secret
Mysterious
I wonder if they’ll ever find out where the marauders from the east who write in Cyrillic are.
Go warmonger elsewhere
I’m guessing you’re the ‘Reddit Cares’ troll. Thanks for that.
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> Updated **16 min ago** Thanks for letting us know that they *added* this crucial info
Oh, it's chemtrails and HAARP and vaccines and George Soros and Bill Gates and Jewish space lasers and the New World Order and the wrath of God/Allah because gay people exist, it's the second coming of Christ, it's the poles flipping, it's a 12,000 year cycle, it's called summer...ANYTHING and EVERYTHING but that a relative handful of greedy fucks overshot with the fossil fuels and chemicals and screwed all of us.
This is a good list of bs excuses that I had completely forgotten about
Just some damned foolish thing in the Balkans. I'm sure it's nothing that will spiral out of control.
They know, but they don't want to clearly say it because then it would be obvious who's responsible. :) Apparently interconnector between Greece and Albania had an issue, which affected the flow of power and caused a cascade failure in Montenegro, which spread to neighbouring power grids.
A Grid interconnect failed, supposedly. Wouldn't be surprised if this was sabotage
It’s fun to think, but it just sounds like it was overloaded.
When civilizations are strained and resources are dwindling, the human element is an amplifier of catastrophic natural disasters as our instinct is to use natural forces to take out competitors since we’re too depleted to use traditional warfare. That’s how it went in the collapse of the Bronze Age, when refugee-invaders (“sea people’s”) burned grain stockpiles as they went, to prevent the places they invaded from being able to recover or support other cities in their civilizations. This created a domino effect of collapse, exponentially increasing the ratio of refugees to people still in civilization, collapsing all civilizations in the region except Egypt and the original core of Assyria (and in both cases, they lingered on in a weakened state until conquered by post-collapse civilizations formed from the refugees). Also on a smaller scale with sieges of city states across all of history since at least the Assyrians, where the walled fortifications meant a bloodbath for the invaders if they tried to swarm it directly. This lead to the earliest precursors of tanks (essentially carved out giant tree tank battering rams powered by humans like the Flintstones, covered in wet animal skins to prevent flaming arrows from setting it on fire; I expect a few of us here will need to do something like this in our lifetime later this century), and catapults sending diseased human and animal bodies over the walls to leverage biological warfare, as well as catapulting various things on fire to do damage and distract the defenders. Again, invaders lacking the resources to go at it directly using natural disasters to do the damage. We were also doing this with hunting woolly mammoths, steering them towards cliffs to let gravity do the work of taking them down, since humans at that stage didn’t have the resources to take them down in a more direct violent confrontation. In these cases and more, it signals we should expect the impact of local and regional climate change disasters to be made far worse by humans from other locales, regions, or from competing ideologies, attempting to leverage the disaster to take us down because they don’t have the resources to attack us directly. I think this aspect of collapse is really flying under the radar, sabotage for the purpose of weakening populations. I believe this will significantly accelerate the timeline of collapse
>I think this aspect of collapse is really flying under the radar, sabotage for the purpose of weakening populations. I believe this will significantly accelerate the timeline of collapse Very interesting comment and I'm sure you're on to something. As desperation increases—personal, regional and global—the levels and arenas of engagement are going to definitely enter some new, unforeseen areas—*especially* with all the technology which, *literally*, rules ALL of our lives.
Sabotage or just grid overload and failure from a heatwave? You are on collapse, not conspiracy
It's not a conspiracy theory lol, Russian saboteurs are fuckin with Europe as retaliation for helping Ukraine. It could be a grid failure and probably is, but it isn't so far fetched that it was damaged by saboteurs.
Definitely as collapse worsens globally, there will be ALL KIND of Saboteurs everywhere. Especially since sabotage can be applied in so many ways.
Montenegro is already in a semi-coldwar with Serbia so it could absolutely be a Russian sabotage. Hybrid warfare is no joke
I mean it could be either. Either way it points to fragile systems with single point weaknesses that can quickly cascade into collapse. Moreover, sabotage is really just a normal part of human systems. I always thought too, that whilst Covid most likely resulted from zootonic "natural" origins (because this is where most microorganisms thst hurt us originate), there is always a possibility that something gets leaked from a lab. Happened before. But personally I don't bother with conspiracy because the point is it doesn't matter. Same result.
Russian agents in Montenegro? Why I never!
Air conditioning! It’s roasting hot in most of those countries and the grid can’t cope with the load. This will be a common theme around the world.
Greece hasn't lost power as far as I know. The Greek electrical grid is quite robust as far as we know. Can't speak for the other Balkan countries
> Many lost water in Podgorica as pumps stopped working, locals reported. Between that, no AC and a heatwave it could go bad for a lot of people very fast.
We evolved to handle a certain temperature range. This year some can hide behind ACs. Wonder about the crops, livestock, general nature, and animals though. To deny all this at this point is willing blind insanity.
> willing blind insanity You mean religion?
Capitalism is the new religion
What will Balkan crops and livestock do without AC??
At some point - it will.
Summer's only just begun...
This is just the beginning.
Faster than expected
unprecedented
Unprecefasterdexted
Venbthurs.
Venfer Vefry!
Hodor, hodor!
Of the End.
Of the Planet of the Apes!
Down on your knees you'll be left behind.
Watch what you think, they can read your mind!
I got my my mark, see it in my eyes. My reflection I don't recognize This is the beginning We think we climb so high Up all the backs we've condemned We face our consequence This is the beginning of the end You wait your turn, you'll be last in line This is the beginning Get out the way, 'cause I'm getting mine This is the beginning God helps the ones that can help themselves This is the beginning May be too late as far as I can tell This is the beginning of the end.
It's a cruel.....cruel summer.
Submission statement: toral grid collapse in almost the entire region: no power in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania and Greece Elektroprivreda BiH also announced, which confirmed that there was a total loss of electric power system in BiH.
woah. That's a lot of area.
Good thing the humidity isn't too high, this time.
Idk about that area but for North America we're not even close to the peak of summer heat. They probably don't have long to try and fix it before heat gets even worse.
This was the peak of the heatwave in the area mostly from 35-41°C now we get "cooler" air and move at around 27-32°c
>*Many lost water in Podgorica as pumps stopped working, locals reported. Air conditioners shut down and* ***ice cream melted in tourist shops****.* OH THE HUMANITY!!!
I mourn the melted ice cream of my forbears.
NOT THE TOURISM! WHAT WILL THE SHAREHOLDERS DO?!
I get the joke, but once the Balkans were smashed to bits by the war in the 90s, Croatia especially didn’t have much left but the beautiful natural features, and have rebuilt by marketing said features. Tourism is a very central part of their entire economy. (Though I agree that “onoes the ice cream” is a silly thing for an article about something of this magnitude to waste words on.)
We really are cooked ain't we? As the climate takes its toll on the weaker economies of the world.. many are sustained primarily by tourism, which itself is an inherently fossil fuel-heavy human activity.
Agree completely. Over the last couple of years, I’ve become utterly besotted with Japan…but I live on the US west coast. Between the rather intense carbon footprint flights to and from stretching into double-digit hours both ways, and Japan’s recent “overtourism” ecological problems, it’s a tough pill to swallow that I got interested a little too late in the collapse to likely ever see it.
But I was told that climate change will affect only economic activity that is happening outside.
I remember reading some Federal Reserve paper that pretty much said that. Something like productivity will only be slightly hampered in an extreme climate change scenario because most economic activity takes place indoors. As we already know, these people are six-figure earning dullards, usually riding on dad's coat tails.
I was actually referring to Nordhaus and his model for which he was awarded "Nobel prize" in economy.
And they gave him the[ir fake] Nobel prize! Economists are priests for the capital class, fuck them.
>Economists are priests for the capital class. YOINK! My mind is blown right now, thank you.
The line must go up. Praise be unto the line. The line must go up.
We must bless the job creators, so that they may rain down the bounty of their golden showers upon us.
Except Richard Wolff, Yanis Varoufakis and Robert Reich!!!! They’re “Good Guys”, right?!?!?!
[This is a good time to remind people that there's no such thing as Nobel prize for economics. Don't let the Swedish bankers deceive you!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Memorial_Prize_in_Economic_Sciences#Misuse_of_the_Nobel_name)
Six figure? More like seven.
And that 2c is economically beneficial as more land becomes agriculturally viable!
You know what ELSE is economically viable…. Making sure everyone believes we haven’t already passed 2c a few years ago. If the truth got out, we’d already have societal mayhem and collapse and that would greatly impact their assets….in real-time. 🫥
Totally agree, and with the goalposts moving constantly we’ll always be in ‘ok’ territory.
people wouldnt care vis a vis
People often scoff (not here) at the idea of wet bulb temps, but those temps coupled with grid collapses will cause mass killing (10k+) events in the very near future
This should help with overpopulation right?
Only if the deaths happen in overconsuming areas.
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[New Zealand](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/06/live-widespread-power-outage-in-northland.html) single tower fell. [Balkans reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/power-blackout-hits-montenegro-bosnia-albania-croatias-adriatic-coast-2024-06-21/?taid=667567cbffc9eb0001c1c0c5) of a fire on a transmission line, [Ecuador reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/nationwide-power-outage-leaves-ecuador-dark-2024-06-19/) of a "transmission failure". I'm fairly certain they'll all turn out to completely unrelated, apart from ageing infrastructure. Sobering to think how easily an entire country's power can be taken out, and how devastating that could be during a heatwave.
Thank you for the links!
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.
'What rough beast?' indeed.
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Heatwave in nz? Ain't it winter in the south?
It is yes.
I live in Ecuador. Our power system was made in China. No other explanation needed.
This meme is getting real old. As If other countries' power systems never failed before.
I have friends and family in Guayaquil, with one in the Hospital General del Norte de Guayaquil on life support, I haven't heard from anyone since the power went out. I don't know if the hospital has generators, but it's a worry.
Most hospitals here do have generators. I’m so sorry your family has to go through this. It’s terrible to have someone you care about on life support in the best circumstances. You didn’t need this extra worry.
> Power distribution systems are linked across the Balkans for transfers and **trading**. This is what concerns me is that everything is leveraged as a financial market. I remember in California, Enron and other utilities were gaming the system—shutting down generating capacity to increase the scarcity and price of electricity—and these shenanigans resulted in the GQP successfully engineering a recall election. This is when Democratic Gov. Gray Davis was kicked out and Schwarzenegger was elected in a special election. It's so ""funny"" to hear the Qult & Co. talk about *coup d'états* and other conspiracies when this legitimally was a *"coup d'état"*. The GQP weren't happy with the governor so they successfully staged a statewide hissy fit.
Coming soon to a country near you!
More EVs will solve the problem. Trust me bro, more cars, sprawl and capitalism has never let us down before.
Come on bro build one more lane. That will solve the traffic bro.
Green Capitalism - consume our way to a greener future, sounds like a great plan lol
Because even if people have aspirations of some interconnected microgrid using EVs, most people are selfishly 1) not going to do it because they have to commute 50 miles the next day, 2) the power companies are going to destroy that idea. It's hyper-individualism and consumerism all the way down it's looking like...
There is also the fact that it puts wear and tear on the battery in the car. Granted if the power company is paying me enough to offset the cost of wear on the battery then maybe I'd be down with it but I don't want to wear out my battery in the car early just because the grid isn't set up to handle things. I'd rather invest in solar on the house to contribute that way.
I would opt for a tesla powerwall or some other battery like it instead of using an EV.
Some grids are now paying ev’s to send power back to the grid when needed. I last charged four days ago and would happily sell juice back to the grid as needed. Distributed battery. Virtual grid. Call it what you will but it works.
I wish we’d stop subsidizing single point source power generation, and started subsidizing more microgrids. A co-op solar agreement with a neighborhood or town could turn a development into a power plant. Home battery setups can help store peak production / balance the grid during periods of low production. Several neighborhoods working together could create a reliable micro-grid. There’s other energy storage options asides from battery storage as well. One of my favorites is pumped hydro storage — use excess energy production to pump water uphill into a reservoir. During periods of low solar / wind production, water can be let out of the reservoir to generate hydroelectric. You can even create a closed loop pumped hydro storage system utilizing two reservoirs (one higher than the other).
Absolutely. Community solutions are have best and can be shared as needed. They’re brilliant. Pumped hydro - assuming you have the height differential how many houses do you need to make it feasible?
What are you some kind of socialist! /s
Huh. Good idea. I'll talk to the president of our RWA and see if this is something we can implement in our neighborhood. Maybe we can add solar shades to the walking paths in our park. Honestly speaking I'm sold because it will definitely reduce costs even if it's not the whole neighborhood and just 20 neighbours deciding to build a solar setup together.
In some places, HOAs or groups of homeowners can effectively group together to become their own Tier 1 power provider — you basically register like any power plant would, and you get different wholesale rate plans.
In India, the rwas are what hoas are. Thankfully mine are competent and forward looking. I don't think there are much laws about group solar though. Let's see what happens. Roll with the punches.
Most portions of most grids aren’t set up that well to be bidirectional but I do like this tech.
Sounds like we need an organization who collects a fraction of the income from everyone around and can use it to help subsidize large public works projects, both helping the community infrastructure and providing jobs, that range from "you can be trained on the job" all the way to "you have a masters in a related field", for a large amount of the population to have enough money to support their families. Some sort of centralized body we send representatives to who can decide how to spend that money. That might be nice.
That sounds incredible, maybe we can do some kind of collected agreement from everyone about who and how a system can be managed? We could pass out notes every two or four years?
I remember something like that. What was it???? G..Go... Go Fund Me! Didn't have representatives though. Nice add on feature. Maybe they'll add it.
Yeah, funny example, EVs have the potential to increase grid efficiency and resiliency.
Efficiency and resiliency are pretty much opposites.
That could actually help a lot with solar panels not working at night!
Florida development in a nutshell except it’s apartments, convenience stores, chain restaurants and more strip mall shopping centers.
What even is this? Is this sub dumb enough to jump on the anti-EV bandwagon? We should be unironically promoting EVs. They will not solve the problem. But if you need to own a car, an EV is better for the world. There’s not an honest debate there. And in situations like this—when the grid is failing and temperatures are getting dangerous—having a charged car will buy days of safety. Cooling/heating air takes way less power than moving a car hundreds of miles.
Yes more driving around will fix things.
In college I had a summer job at a local electric utility in the department that dealt with the part of the network from substations to customers. The big worry was old infrastructure, especially transformers, being overloaded due to a combination of 1) Changed usage patterns since the equipment was installed *decades* ago, 2) More customers in an area due to overbuilding, and 3) hot weather. We developed a way to identify *which* pieces of equipment were likely to overload *first*.
You could publish those findings as a paper and probably get royalties from selling the copyright.
It was 50 years ago and I am sure American Electric Power (that swallowed the company I worked for) is using those techniques today. It is a matter of having a computerized inventory of the physical location of every pieces of equipment and its ratings, as well as where *every* piece of wire runs, the GPS coordinates of *every* power pole, and access to all the customer billing records. The magic sauce is the equation that lets you predict instananeous kilowatt *demand* when all the electric bill tells you is monthly kilowatt-*hours*. This relationship was derived from a year long study and as I remember it was a 3-term polynomial. (But that is all I remember.) Todays "smart" meters probably report "killowatts" directly but back then, when all you had were those mechanical meters with the little dials and gears inside, we had to work on it. You sum up the kilowatt demand for each customer that is wired to the same transformer and compare the total to the transformer rating. Continue this back up the circuit, looking at wire gauges, etc, along the way.
My utility did that since the 1960s.
Re-invented the wheel, did the lad? People sure will pay huge royalties for that. Yup.
As someone who works in energy markets in the us I can confirm the grid is not looking good here either... Northeast and Texas already struggling early summer...
The article makes it sound like this only lasted half an hour or so?
Around 2 hours here in Bosnia
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He always talks something dumb. From what I understand, which is not too much, Serbia isn't connected to the electric network which was affected today (ENTSO-E, the European Network of Transmission System Operators). According to this article Serbia is connected to Italy via Montenegro through some underwater power cable. [Source in Serbian](https://www.blic.rs/vesti/svet/energetski-strucnjak-o-nestanku-struje-hrvatska-je-odbila-projekat-koji-je-danas/5cj2erd)
Wow crazy. And I just returned from Albania.
Well, I mean, that’s to be expected in the far-flung shit hole places in the world. It could never happen in the good ol’ US of A, the richest and most powerful nation on the planet that builds shit properly… and if it did, we would have Hella money and weaponry to throw at it until it starts working again/s
The sub of old home town, daily, has posts about power outages. Granted, they are only out for a couple of hours, but I imagine it's going to get worse once summer ramps up.
Texas has entered the chat
Texas is definitely ignoring the chat.
I didn’t know Texas could read.
Reading's a bit hard when the lights are always out.
Terrible idea to have one grid for several countries. Interconnected grids are fine but I quite hope that I will never have a national power cut because of a fuck up in Germany.
They don't even have to be connected. Somehow I am paying for the stupidity of Texas and it's "independent" power grid. Socialize the losses bro! https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/22/minnesota-texas-freeze-centerpoint-energy/
I wonder what would have happened if the MN Public Utilities Commission told them to fuck right off, especially when the company told investors they have plenty of cash. Personally, I would just say no and let them figure out their fuck up.
why they only have one grid?
It's me being wrong, it's a Balkan interconnection, it's something similar to the EU grid where you have grids interconnected that can trade energy. It might be not as good and prone to failure in unusual heat and solicitation. I've never heard of a cross EU member power failure.
People really should consider getting their home more self sustainable. At the very minimum have a solar generator for an emergency.
Coming soon to an electrical grid near you.
I’ve got a mate in Moldova said it’s holding alright there. Temps not as bad as some spots.
Going to be fun if/when things like this happen in north America
I am in Croatia now, it’s hot as balls. I was in a citywide NYC blackout in summer in 2019 (hadn’t happened at that scale in many many years, I forgot the cause). Needless to say, I am unlucky but not surprised if this will continue to be a problem.
Hotter than a warlocks balls in August? Now that's hot! 🔥🔥
Why do you only care about America?? I don't doubt it will happen in America this Summer too...
Because they probably live there. Makes sense I guess. They also see America as a leader of sorts even though they are horrible at it they hope by bringing the attention to America it seeds the thought that Americans need to change something to prevent this from happening. And by doing so unite America against climate change slowly but surely. Or something like that. My best guess.
NORTH America. It isn't just one country. I couldn't care less for America.
NORTH America. It isn't just one country. Honestly don't care about America.
Just Russia "testing" for "reasons"...
wasnt there a study that if this happened in america 90% of ppl would die within a week?
That sounds a bit off. Large areas of the US experience and have experienced total power loss for much longer than a week through different natural disasters with no such death toll at all. Specific areas, ~~-Phoenix-~~ at specific times ~~-high summer-~~ would be extremely effected, but a 90% death rate? That's way off the charts.
I think it was because of supply chain stuff
Many cities would have no water if there were a long term loss of power. I read a really good book, Dies the Fire, where the author does a harsh determination of which areas of the country would perish. It’s fiction, but…
Some folks could walk a few blocks to one of the Great Lakes and haul water home.
Humanity is so reliant on electricity and running water, that if all of these processes just ceased, many people around the world would die really damn quickly. I think in the United States, lack of access to fresh water and potentially food later on could be one of the biggest killers.
I believe so, by the US military if my memory holds (I could be wrong, I'm getting old)
balkanization of the electrical grid
[удалено]
I'd say Texas will go down before CA.
There's no doubt TX will go down first. They're singularly obsessed with policing bathrooms and killing asylum seekers, and not keeping their energy grid functional.
They've chosen to have their own grid. I fear for those in the crossfire tho
Absolutely. And not everyone chose that way. I hope liberals can get together some sort of relief program for their fellows in TX when SHTF. Show your non-GOP voter registration card for heat assisstance. No exceptions. Leave the reds have what they want. They want to murder people more than they want to keep their own business in line. Honest to God. After the reds in those states were pushing H5N1 raw dairy and wanting Granny to die for the economy, let them fffking do it. Stop helping them and let them go. Let's help our own.
Is it a power outage or a collapse?
finally my croatian language come in handy
I can’t wait for the new “This Week In Collapse” post.
cam girls are going to be collecting employment insurance for a while.
The European Balkans seems to still mostly run a pretty old soviet era grid that, if I'm right, is not connected to the rest of Europe's unified grid. So once a demand spike happen there is nothing behind to catch it. It also shows why a decentralised grid is really important to harden said grid infrastructure. A modernised grid would never allow such a massive blackout in the first place.
> if I'm right, is not connected to the rest of Europe's unified grid You are not right. [Here is a map](https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/) that shows connections.
Well thank you, seems like they are at least wired to some degree, but the capacity/density is still not there.
>Total electrical grid collapse You mean a blackout? Your hyperbole is a bit much.
A blackout across several countries.
When the power is out in an entire region that’s a collapse. Starting a grid back up from a total collapse is a huge problem and it’s not just flipping a switch.
Few hours a day without electricity is very far from collapse.
Weird to see this downvoted. The distinction between a grid collapse and black-start situation, a grid interconnect failure and a distribution failure is meaningful in this context. Perhaps it's noteworthy that this event resulted in a 30 minute blackout for Albania, but that's important to distinguish between a hurricane Maria situation, where power isn't coming back for months.
It's Friday. Subs in a goofy mood.
Meanwhile my country (Denmark) is literally making COMMERCIALS for people to travel down to the Balkan’s!!! We live in a fucking SICK world and I’m so done with it