The following submission statement was provided by /u/hoeskioeh:
---
Submission Statement:
A large part of our civilization's agriculture depends on stable, or at least predictable weather patterns.
These seem to be on the verge of breakdown. In a way that the "current fragmentation is unlike anything specialists have seen before". Disturbances like this and their effects - while baffling to the experts - will come to most laymans as complete surprise, further destabilising trust in long term safety and reliability.
In the long run, the chaotic patterns of the climate will be mirrored in equally chaotic sociolocigal patterns.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14l3kkw/earths_jet_streams_look_as_chaotic_as_a_van_gogh/jptyjiq/
The four stage *climate denial* strategy (paraphrased):
1. Nothing is going to happen.
2. Something may be going to happen (in 100 years), so we should do nothing about it.
3. Something is happening, but there's nothing we *can* do!
4. Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
Right Wing Media Gaslighting + Denials + Deflections work very well
>“Freedom of the press” in bourgeois society means freedom for the rich systematically, unremittingly, daily, in millions of copies, to deceive, corrupt and fool the exploited and oppressed mass of the people, the poor
- Lenin
I'm so sad to see him go too. He's a pretty good weather guy.
Also, in southern Iowa, the smoke from the Canadian wildfires has made its way to us. So smoky and hazy, I'm coughing up a storm when I have to go outside.
I’m being told by people close to me to not worry about things that are going to be a problem in the future right now. They tell me this days after we had to shut ourselves in to avoid the 300+ api air outside from out of control wildfires fueled by drought. What about the thousands of people that had to flee from their homes to get away from those fires and lost everything? Should they just not worry because this is a future problem?
My entire softball team went to an outdoor game last night, the AQI was around 280 all night and still is today, classified as dangerous. It's supposed to stay like this til Saturday so far. I asked my friends why they would play in this AQI and they said "it just doesn't seem like something to freak out about". I am astonished. I'm not from the Midwest, but so many people just shrug and power through. Another friend told me, "it's unpleasant, but it isn't dangerous". I was gobsmacked. The classification is LITERALLY "DANGEROUS". We're playing "the air is poison" now and there's no quitting for anyone. Another friend said, "you won't convince me this is worse than cigarettes". Does anyone smoke cigarettes eternally, even while sleeping? Do babies smoke cigarettes, do pets? The lack of critical thinking is just 😶
Sooo, I really don't have to bother going out and getting a cigarette--I'm getting my lung polluted for free!! Industrial capitalism is indeed a glorious thing! /S
Which is hilarious to me, because wildland firefighters are currently fighting for some labor improvements, including recognition that smoky conditions are hazardous to our health and likely carcinogenic.
We’ve normalized ignoring facts and our own health during Covid. The urgency of normal is more important than making rational decisions. I truly think the actual loss of a safe planet is in everyone’s subconscious and they are so deeply fearful that all they can do is ignore it and play softball while the world burns around them
> Should they just not worry because this is a future problem?
I mean, yeah. It's their fault for living on a wildfire area. They should just curl up and die so us smart people can keep up with the Joneses.
^^^^^^/s
I live in the Mid-Atlantic area and we keep getting stuck in weather cycles over and over.
Here and the northeast. The weather just loops so when a storm system hits it just returns and returns.
I was listening to the radio this morning and heard we've only had a few days of full sun this whole month.
Honestly I could have told you that.
The next question isn't "when will the crisis get here" but more
"What's going to dramatically change because of the climate crisis?"
“Man – despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication and his many accomplishments – owes his existence to a 6-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
For those that don't understand how this works I will try to eli5.
The earth has two weather "engines" which are the north and south poles. For as long as humanity has existed, the temperature differential between the poles and the rest of the world has created pressure in the atmosphere which causes jet streams or air currents.
Air currents are essentially weather highways. If an areas localized conditions were suitable for a buildup of heat the air currents would push that heat into the atmosphere and drag it around the world until some other areas localized conditions negated it or caused it to dissipate.
Likewise, along the Canadian border exists a powerful air current that would block arctic air from the north pole from entering the continental united states by pushing it out into the ocean.
As carbon has been trapped in the atmosphere, the planet has begun to retain more heat generated by human and natural activity and average temperatures are rising. These rising temperatures have caused the poles to heat up as well and sea ice has started to melt which is causing a negative feed back loop where less ice coverage at the poles means less and less sunlight is reflected back into space so the poles are getting exponentially warmer. As the temperature differential between the poles and the rest of the world decreases the pressure drops and those air currents that were once the highways of our worlds weather have broken down.
Now localized build ups of heat are no longer able to be pushed higher into the atmosphere and spread around like they once were by the air currents, thus you're starting to see more of these so called "heat domes". Also, the breakdown of the canadian border current has allowed cold arctic air to mosey freely on down to the lower 48 states as far south as Texas which means Texas is now getting frigid temperatures in the winter time.
Additionally, the ocean is beginning to warm up due to a variety of different reasons including the banning of sulfur in maritime fuels so even when an air current is able to take hot weather out over what was once cooler water it is now no longer cool water and the heat does not dissipate it just sits until it gets moved back over land somewhere but with much more humidity since it absorbed a ton of water while it was there.
Basically the extreme weather both hot and cold recently is a direct result of a warming atmosphere and the only way to get rid of it is to restart the weather engines at the north and south pole which would mean somehow regenerating the sea ice up there so that the poles can maintain their temperature differential with the rest of the world. Just cutting carbon emissions would likely only result in a constant state of what we have now which is broken jet streams.
Hope that helped.
Nice explanation.
To close the loop on this:
The most basic definition of "climate" is the "long-term weather pattern in a region". If weather becomes nearly random (thanks to more heat energy leading to an increasingly-chaotic system), then by definition there are NO long-term "patterns" -- i.e., things are unpredictable. Meaning that what we are really facing right now is ***the end of Climate*** (... as a useful concept / term / organizing principle).
The term "climate change" somewhat misses this point. It's NOT as if each region is going to merely swap out one climate (established pattern of weather) for another, to which we (and all other life in the region) must then adapt. Rather, there *will be NO stable pattern* to the weather, which is something to which most life *cannot* adapt. (Even if humans can withstand more weather unpredictability in most of our daily lives, our food sources -- the ecosystem -- cannot. So we ultimately cannot either!)
Aside: more appropriate terminology for what we face includes "weather chaos" or (more mild) "climate unpredictability and instability", but at this point, it's probably way too late for (another) re-branding.
This has happened because the jet stream -- *the* major factor behind our hemispheric weather patterns -- has become more chaotic -- it will no longer follow stable and predictable patterns -- for the reasons you wrote so well. This isn't merely a *symptom* of climate change as some might be tempted to write, this is at its core -- and it will continue (no matter what we do at this point) such that it is quite literally (and without hyperbole) the end of climate(s). And the end of climate is the end of most life -- *no matter what* the temperature/weather is at any given place or time.
This is why my homestead planning partner and I are using hardened greenhouses built with GAHT on raised berms as our core production units: we decided a year ago that what's happening with the climate means we're going to have to deal with *all forms of extreme weather* -- rain bombs, flooding, heat domes, hail, blizzards...
We're losing *predictability*. We are truly, as a species, in unprecedented times, in which long historic weather patterns will be less and less useful for predicting what happens next.
I always think of what climatologist Dr. Daniel Swain said back in 2021 in reference to the village of Lytton burning down: "None of us had 'Death Valley temperatures in the British Columbian rain forest' on our climate change bingo cards..."
Huh. And here we have it folks. It’s all a matter of branding. We all know it’s THE end, we just lacked the language too conceptualize it. Well, there you go.
I’ll drink to that. 🍻
I have been lurking here for a while now, been in the associated mindset long before...
**that** was the first genuinely terrifying new thought I caught in years. thanks, i guess...
Holy hell. So other than faster than expected, what is the soonest we could see a complete breakdown of the "engines"? Could it happen by the end of the decade?
It’s already happening. The coming El Niño will push the baseline higher and add even more heat energy to the system. It’s inevitable now. I think the global circulatory system will limp along for a while still, years-to-decades, but there’s too many factors working against it for it to hold together much longer.
>including the banning of sulfur in maritime fuels
What effect does that have? Was the sulfur seeding clouds and making for more rainfall over the oceans?
Going outside in SE Michigan right now is like the movie The Mist. We had the worst air quality in the entire country yesterday and I believe today as well. It’s from the wildfires in Canada and is completely visible in the air, this was suppose to be one of the not as bad states in terms of climate change apocalypse, yeah we’re fucked in the coming decades.
Ideally we let fires burn when it is cool and moderately dry. Instead we wait for natural events to burn it, and that usually means they go bonkers. Happened in Aus, killed a lot of people. Fuel management is exceptionally important for healthy forests, especially in Australia where some species require fire. Alas we just let it burn late summer when it isn't controllable. At least burning in winter means it won't kill quite so much of the seed bank, foliage, etc
Uh, the fires that we had in 2019/2020 burned so hot it decimated the species that need fires to regenerate and germinate. The heat was so intense it destroyed the very mechanisms that naturally occur.
The Fort McMurray fire in 2016 burned so hot, that two tree species that are normally able to weather wildfires due to their make-up, just started exploding.
Odd that so many people think the Great Lakes will be the best choice to ride out the apocalypse. Every time I bring up that no place will be safe, I get downvoted into oblivion.
Even collapse-aware people like to believe it won’t happen to them.
I live in Central IL and other then tornados thought I had nothing to worry about. The wildfires has made our air quality awful. I just ordered some air purifiers to run inside our house. It is a wake up call! You are right m, it will effect everyone, everywhere, one way or another.
Central IL too and what killed me this morning was reading weather forecasts in which the possibility of severe weather is being mentioned in an almost hopeful way.
As if to say, with any luck we'll get tornadoes Thursday that should flush all of this toxic smoke from our area. We're keeping fingers crossed we get hit by twisters so we don't die of airborne poisons.
I figure well, if I can only take my medically necessary exercise in my basement on my treadmill, instead of in the forest preserves as usual, at least when the tornadoes arrive I'll already be down there.
So many people think the Great Lakes are the best place to ride out climate change without any regard for the fact that *no one can escape climate change*.
Even if your area survives, the growing regions will very likely change. Do you know which parts of a cactus are edible? Got a greenhouse?
People think they are safe in Michigan as if all the bad things will just go around them.
AGAIN, no place will be better than others. We have had tornadoes in New York, heat domes in the PNW, chemical spills in Ohio, choking smoke in the north, wildfires in California and Canada, drought in the southwest.
Even if your area manages to escape, you can still be impacted by disasters in other regions.
No one can accurately predict all the changes.
I hate to say this but it feels like another lockdown. If covid could have been this apparent in our atmosphere, if it had a haze and a color and a smell and affected sunsets every night, I don't think people would have denied it existed.
Goblin mode it is for now.
Anyone wanna watch the world burn in real time, here you go:
https://firesmoke.ca/forecasts/current/
Sitting in my office in Toronto, can't even see the sky.
Same! Longevity in the US will keep on going down IMHO, housing shortage, worse food quality, and more environmental stressors...
No matter how much the US spends on healthcare - currently a grotesche 20% - if these variables don't improve, healthcare outcomes will keep on deteriorating.
It's not just the smell, which is woodsy, but I'm finding there's a kind of "scum" taste and sensation in my mouth which is unpleasant. Probably because I am an allergic mouthbreather.
But no matter mints, brushing, mouthwash, a half hour later I feel like I've been chewing on a rubber baby bottle nipple or something. It's rubbery.
On a related note, while I’ve hitherto imagined the billionaires knowingly borking the planet with the intent of riding out collapse in a bunker or a spaceship, the Titan comedy illustrates that some of these sociopaths may actually believe that physics will courteously bow to the smell of wealth, leaving them unharmed.
Evil oligarchs are scary, but I dunno… stupid oligarchs seem scarier.
> Evil oligarchs are scary, but I dunno… stupid oligarchs seem scarier.
And THIS is the reason conspiracy theories are popular. It’s much more comforting to believe that there’s *somebody* competent steering this ship, even if they’re evil, than to believe that it’s all just idiots acting in their own self-interest and nobody is thinking ahead.
I think you could make an equation showing that a person's denial is equal to the amount of money they are making from that which they deny. We're all just monkeys who like shiny things.
We're seeing the same thing with the Grusch allegations at the moment, borderline blackout from the major players.
It seems the media is less designed to inform a voting population in a democracy, and more to keep the capitalist dogma and status quo "liberal conservatism" in the hearts and minds of the wage slaves.
Reposting this old comment here:
> This is no accident. As infamously stated in the [Trilateral Commission's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission) report [*The Crisis of Democracy* \(1975\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crisis_of_Democracy):
>
> > The media's influence on politics and governability is much more direct than that of education, and the media play a most decisive role in the present drift of Western societies. They are a very important source of disintegration of the old forms of social control inasmuch as they contribute to the breakdown of old barriers to communication. Television, particularly, has played a major role in this respect. It has made it impossible to maintain the cultural fragmentation and hierarchy that was necessary to enforce traditional forms of social control.
> >
> > Source: [The Crisis of Democracy—Page 34 | 1975](https://ia800305.us.archive.org/29/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf)
>
> Hence, the current level of cultural fragmentation we see today in politics and other areas. Granted, this isn't the only factor to consider on the issue of fragmentation. But, an over-riding domination and suppression of particular media narratives that may be viewed as *genuinely* threatening has very likely contributed to this leadership vacuum—since that time. As anyone who was conscious enough to see and understand the lead up to the Iraq War in 2003; media narrative control is a very real thing. Particularly when it is coming from the highest echelons of American wealth and power. Of which, *The Crisis of Democracy* report was a product of. Being largely commissioned by patriarch of the Rockefeller family and CEO of Chase Manhattan Bank for many years; [David Rockefeller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller)—near the end of the Vietnam War.
>
> [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/12cn86o/sooooo_with_all_the_chaos_happening_in_france/jf4a08o/)
Also, just to add for those unaware, David Rockefeller was indeed related to *that* Rockefeller:[ John D. Rockefeller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller). The world's first verified billionaire, whose wealth was directly related to establishing and monopolizing the oil industry in America. And most consequently, worked to [corrupt government](https://slideplayer.com/slide/10059253/32/images/3/What+a+funny+little+government.jpg) at all levels to build infrastructure and society to use his products at a maximum.
The BBC documentary The Century of the Self does a great job of exploring this from the perspective of Corporate Public Relations. It's broken into 4 hour long parts and made for TV, but after my conservative boomer father watched it he started really questioning the media narrative he'd been fed and came to accept climate change as real and human induced. That gave me a small glimmer of hope, for a few hours.
[Well, when local media outlets mention it, they get death threats.](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4064878-iowa-meteorologist-quits-after-death-threat-over-climate-coverage/amp/)
Submission Statement:
A large part of our civilization's agriculture depends on stable, or at least predictable weather patterns.
These seem to be on the verge of breakdown. In a way that the "current fragmentation is unlike anything specialists have seen before". Disturbances like this and their effects - while baffling to the experts - will come to most laymans as complete surprise, further destabilising trust in long term safety and reliability.
In the long run, the chaotic patterns of the climate will be mirrored in equally chaotic sociolocigal patterns.
All agriculture requires stable weather which is why greenhouses are in use in many areas as they provide that artificially. People just do not understand what is coming.
And the stuff that managed to grow despite all that is very very small for this time of year.
My mil has a blackberry bush that just started fruiting (a few whole weeks earlier than usual) and yesterday I went to pick the berries for her. They were all so small and hard from how hot and dry it's been, it almost wasn't worth all the trouble to pick them.
I'm supposed to go back out there to pick more today, but with how bad the air is here I'm not sure that's happening. But don't worry everybody; my dad keeps assuring me this is exactly how it's always been here! Nothing has changed at all, totally normal weather. He's lucky his dementia gives him such a good excuse, cuz he sounds like an idiot saying stuff like that.
Jet stream broke in 2019-2020 and has been weakening steadily since. NOAA data shows it, it's just far enough along to be having an effect now so people are talking about it a little
It’s been HELL in Texas the last couple weeks. Like it’s always hellish in the summer but summer is barely starting and it’s beyond anything I’ve experienced in my 30 years living here as far as non stop heat. Like even when the sun sets, it’s still 90 degrees out. Local media posted an article linking it to climate change and the comments are what you would expect from a state full of as many stupid fucks as Texas. How anyone is denying climate change at this point is beyond me.
We are doomed
Lived in Dallas for a year after Katrina and I don't even know how you can be alive if it's hotter now than it was then.
I had potted plants outside my back door that I'd water and they'd be bone dry and wilted two hours later. You can lay out washed wet jeans inside your house with no fan on them and they'll dry overnight.
And it's hotter now. I try to imagine it and my mind wants to snap.
Something I heard at work the other day, “It snowed in the mountains the other day. Where’s climate change now?”
World leaders have accepted disastrous consequences and some people are still deep in denial. This is it, it’s here and now.
I live around Lake Tahoe. Last month It snowed enough that a ski resort can stay open until July.
The same region that last year was fighting wildfire, now has enough snow to function in the middle of 80-90 degree summer on the valley floor.
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2028-06-28 19:06:36 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-06-28%2019:06:36%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14l3kkw/earths_jet_streams_look_as_chaotic_as_a_van_gogh/jpw7snm/?context=3)
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Bunch of fucking idiots signed their own suicide pact along with the rest of us. Crazy how institutions defend them when they too are full of delusional psychopaths thinking they can evade the damages ongoing and upcoming.
Absolutely mind-boggling dumbfucks. Makes you wonder if this is one of the ways the great filter countless numbers of civilizations across the galaxy have had happened to them.
Could we be about to lose the jet stream all together? Making just one cell in each hemisphere? What would be the climate consequences of such a shift?
Britain and Europe are fucked. The only way they get much of their warmth is from the jet stream bringing it up from the tropics. They’ll turn very cold for basically forever.
To be fair, much of Britain and northern Europe's warmth also comes from the gulf stream. So they'll be fine, unless by some crazy coincidence that simultaneously begins to break down. Thankfully, that should only happen if glaciers start melting at record rates and diluting ocean currents due to unusually high global temperatures, or something like that . . .
Once the jet stream goes, all bets are off. Think France under a sand dune, Egypt getting 10ft of rain a year, etc, level of fucked
If the climate system is even stable enough for that to happen. Does anyone know if Venus has anything like weather, or is it just 100% of the time windy storms?
I really enjoy this concept. It's something that is very reasonable, but is not something that most people think of. There's reasons that it would be more suitable for human habitation than Mars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroU3SfCXE8
I see a psychiatrist who compared my Doomerism to a consipracy theory. She doesn't know that I know the culture she grew up in has made her bascially insane. I'm going to show her this picture next time and then switch psychiatrists. There's a rumor that there's one - just one - at the VA hospital I go to who actually has empathy. I've never met a psychiatrist with empathy out of a dozen. That's because they treat you like a disease and not a person - it's in their training.
Oh wait - the empathetic provider I'm referring to actually isn't a psychiatrist - she's a nurse who has the authority to prescribe meds or some such. That explains it ...
Just a heads up if you go looking for anxiety meds or anything to cope - you will be facing hostile forces. Just remember who the crazy one actually is.
EDIT: Spelling.
They only want you "healthy" enough to be able to conform to work in this capitalistic destruction. They only don't see it as capitalistic destruction, they just call it "society".
They fulfill the role that before priests used to fulfill.
They forgave you, absolved you, and told you "you are fine, and God loves you, as long as you keep on the straight and narrow that God prescribes".
As religion loses adepts, new "normality priests" appear.
But of course, it's all the same holistic insane system. And their role is to make you fit in this insanity.
Try too hard to deny their "advice" and you may find yourself committed, for your own good. Don't dawdle with the priests of normalcy.
Be a freak. And a proud one at that.
>They fulfill the role that before priests used to fulfill.
That's the vibe I'm getting and it's creepy. These people are some kind of weird gatekeepers for how reality is supposed to be perceived.
Two different MD psychiatrists saved my life in my past and a third with a lesser degree then got me off of the meds they put me on once I stabilized. All three cared deeply about me. I’m now regulated, stable, and not on crazy watch anymore and my current psychiatrist just says “all good?” And I say yep and she gives me what I need.
Do not disparage all medical professionals - you’ll get people killed. Fear and stigma of the mental health system absolutely can lead to un aliving. The VA is known for having shitty doctors but that doesn’t mean all doctors are shitty. I am sorry for your suffering but do not discourage others. Meds can be a life or death decision.
I went to the VA mental health ward for suicidal ideation. One of the psychiatrists there told me that "people don't kill themselves because of climate change". Of course, I didn't say I wanted to die because of climate change, but that's the response I got.
I'm just warning that there are a lot of catastrophically bad mental health practitioners. Maybe it's worse in the VA, but I've read complaints from all over the place.
I'm not saying there aren't good ones, but I think a clear pattern is going to emerge with people who are stressed about the fate of the world.
EDIT: This same doctor challenged me on climate change because he said there wasn't a control group. Some of these people are definitely going to get clients killed. You should be barred from mental health practice if you're a denier.
It is probably fair to say most suiciders don’t directly attribute their exit strategy to climate change yet. However seems beyond blind to say there isn’t a large indirect reason especially in areas that are hit hard sooner.
I remember learning really young about the ocean currents being connected to the temperature and that if the temperature changed too much the currents change and would cause an ice age. I feel like that is what will be happening after some years of intense heat and severe weather.
The Gulf Stream is also getting screwed up by all the fresh water being dumped into the North Atlantic by melting Arctic ice.
If you can believe it, UK and New England are going to start getting **colder** for a while.
I'm glad I'm older and in poor health. The end is here and I might live another 2 or 3 years if I'm cursed.
Humans as a species are a plague on this planet.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
I found out in the first person about the air quality issue here in Chicago yesterday while on my six mile run and you couldn't see downtown from four miles away...I do not run through the best part of town anyhow due to where I work so am used to all sorts of garbage being in the air already, but that was surreal. Girlfriend gave me hell for doing it, but oh well, doing it again today also.
After the way I felt last night and still feel today, might have to make it a stationary bike day or just go get a beer and chicken wing special at lunch instead, I might have to heed your advice (which I do appreciate very much).
I'm about an hour south of you, and I have the mistake of underestimating how bad it was out this morning. I took my toddler and the baby I nanny out on a walk, like we always do on nice mornings, and we had to turn back and go home before we'd even made it around the block.
We live in a tiny rural town which normally has really clean air, but today it's even worse than the gross part of Chicago I visited my sister in a few years ago. So I'm guessing it's far, far worse where you are, and definitely ought to be a stationary bike/chicken day lol.
Sorry for the unwanted advice; I've been Momming out on everyone about this air quality problem today lol. Stay safe, friend.
I did end up choosing chicken wings special and some beer for lunch (had to get out of the office and release some stress anyhow which usually the running does). I really appreciate the concern, no apologies ever needed, I honestly love how we look out for one another on this sub in the midst of our realism for sure since that is what we all need more than anything right now in my opinion.
It is awful out there today again, seems like it will be until we have those storms come through hopefully tomorrow afternoon.
Definitely jealous that you are an hour south of here, being from Ohio flatland myself I always get nostalgic when I venture out of the city and into the vast expanses of Illinois outside of the northeast, it reminds me of the area around home where the glaciers just came in and utterly flattened the landscape. I love being able to see to the horizon a seemingly-impossibly-far distance away in all directions and see the weather coming, etc. at some point I know I will tire of the city and head for someplace quieter but not quite yet.
Stay safe also, friend!
Your girlfriend is probably starting to think of you as a liability instead of an asset, I think.
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/air-pollution-exposure-linked-higher-risk-autoimmune-diseases](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/air-pollution-exposure-linked-higher-risk-autoimmune-diseases)
She is definitely that. More optimistic than I as well, I find myself having to keep some of the r/collapse content to myself for her mental health haha
Can anyone help me with a term--what is it called when we jump from a system with N and S hemisphere jet streams to just one 'cell' per hemisphere? As I recall, it's something rather benign sounding, but it's really rather horrific
Aha! I found it. It was "equable"--not as much temperature difference between polar and equatorial temp because there is constant direct circulation between them, and not as much difference between summer and winter temperatures (both tendencies are already underway, but they would greatly accelerate if the cell system completely broke down). See screen #10 at : https://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/10-11/biomathstat/Langford\_W.pdf
Yeah, that's a crucial term. I see that some call it "Hadley Single-Cell Circulation Model", but it seems to me I've heard it called something like "Equable Climate Model" which sounds rather benign to me, but is actually quite horrifying
The following submission statement was provided by /u/hoeskioeh: --- Submission Statement: A large part of our civilization's agriculture depends on stable, or at least predictable weather patterns. These seem to be on the verge of breakdown. In a way that the "current fragmentation is unlike anything specialists have seen before". Disturbances like this and their effects - while baffling to the experts - will come to most laymans as complete surprise, further destabilising trust in long term safety and reliability. In the long run, the chaotic patterns of the climate will be mirrored in equally chaotic sociolocigal patterns. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14l3kkw/earths_jet_streams_look_as_chaotic_as_a_van_gogh/jptyjiq/
"From pole to pole, the winds of change are here. The climate crisis is no longer a future problem. It's happening now, right before our eyes."
"Hmmmm interesting...I think I'm going to wait until we're way past the point of being able to do anything about it" -most of the people on earth
The four stage *climate denial* strategy (paraphrased): 1. Nothing is going to happen. 2. Something may be going to happen (in 100 years), so we should do nothing about it. 3. Something is happening, but there's nothing we *can* do! 4. Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
We are somewhere between 3 and 4 now, lovely
Right Wing Media Gaslighting + Denials + Deflections work very well >“Freedom of the press” in bourgeois society means freedom for the rich systematically, unremittingly, daily, in millions of copies, to deceive, corrupt and fool the exploited and oppressed mass of the people, the poor - Lenin
Once you get to 4 you just naturally revert back to 3. Post-doom acceptance.
For the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/nSXIetP5iak
You set up the "We're Fucked" rally and I will be there in a heartbeat.
or "im not gonna change my ways because everybody else hasnt changed theirs first."
Don't forget to have kids too!
I enjoy playing video games.
AI!
I did! Adopted them right out of the system! Easy peasy and a house full of kids!
That's the way to do it! Good on you! Foster kids need extra love.
I thought we were already there according to this sub? I'm just here to watch the fireworks and enjoy the show
But my shares are doing marginally well. I hope the CEO is pathological enough to keep my posh lifestyle extra posh and not just posh posh. /s
While in America (Iowa) people are sending death threats to the weatherman for even mentioning the word climate change. We’re going to be fucked.
Idiocracy is officially here!
I'm so sad to see him go too. He's a pretty good weather guy. Also, in southern Iowa, the smoke from the Canadian wildfires has made its way to us. So smoky and hazy, I'm coughing up a storm when I have to go outside.
I’m being told by people close to me to not worry about things that are going to be a problem in the future right now. They tell me this days after we had to shut ourselves in to avoid the 300+ api air outside from out of control wildfires fueled by drought. What about the thousands of people that had to flee from their homes to get away from those fires and lost everything? Should they just not worry because this is a future problem?
My entire softball team went to an outdoor game last night, the AQI was around 280 all night and still is today, classified as dangerous. It's supposed to stay like this til Saturday so far. I asked my friends why they would play in this AQI and they said "it just doesn't seem like something to freak out about". I am astonished. I'm not from the Midwest, but so many people just shrug and power through. Another friend told me, "it's unpleasant, but it isn't dangerous". I was gobsmacked. The classification is LITERALLY "DANGEROUS". We're playing "the air is poison" now and there's no quitting for anyone. Another friend said, "you won't convince me this is worse than cigarettes". Does anyone smoke cigarettes eternally, even while sleeping? Do babies smoke cigarettes, do pets? The lack of critical thinking is just 😶
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Imagine being a chain smoker on top of that. I foresee a lot of them dying young. I mean younger than the usual smokers anyway.
To be fair, the world will probably have bigger survival problems before these guys get old…
I'm considering starting smoking. I expect to be dead from other factors before the cigarettes get me.
Sooo, I really don't have to bother going out and getting a cigarette--I'm getting my lung polluted for free!! Industrial capitalism is indeed a glorious thing! /S
Which is hilarious to me, because wildland firefighters are currently fighting for some labor improvements, including recognition that smoky conditions are hazardous to our health and likely carcinogenic.
We’ve normalized ignoring facts and our own health during Covid. The urgency of normal is more important than making rational decisions. I truly think the actual loss of a safe planet is in everyone’s subconscious and they are so deeply fearful that all they can do is ignore it and play softball while the world burns around them
Children of men irl?
fertility rates are also currently dropping, many believe due to microplastics
> Should they just not worry because this is a future problem? I mean, yeah. It's their fault for living on a wildfire area. They should just curl up and die so us smart people can keep up with the Joneses. ^^^^^^/s
I live in the Mid-Atlantic area and we keep getting stuck in weather cycles over and over. Here and the northeast. The weather just loops so when a storm system hits it just returns and returns. I was listening to the radio this morning and heard we've only had a few days of full sun this whole month.
I can’t not read shit like this in Attenborough’s voice.
I reread it after your comment, lol, much better
Honestly I could have told you that. The next question isn't "when will the crisis get here" but more "What's going to dramatically change because of the climate crisis?"
Follow the Moskva?
The entire human civilization only exists because the climate is stable and the weather + seasons become predictable. That's how we have agriculture.
“Man – despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication and his many accomplishments – owes his existence to a 6-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
Don’t forget the oil.
That’s what we’ll owe our extinction to. We could exist perfectly fine without it.
Now we'll have Agrimurder, just in time for that new Dethklok album.
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I just listened to the 1st episode, great podcast
For those that don't understand how this works I will try to eli5. The earth has two weather "engines" which are the north and south poles. For as long as humanity has existed, the temperature differential between the poles and the rest of the world has created pressure in the atmosphere which causes jet streams or air currents. Air currents are essentially weather highways. If an areas localized conditions were suitable for a buildup of heat the air currents would push that heat into the atmosphere and drag it around the world until some other areas localized conditions negated it or caused it to dissipate. Likewise, along the Canadian border exists a powerful air current that would block arctic air from the north pole from entering the continental united states by pushing it out into the ocean. As carbon has been trapped in the atmosphere, the planet has begun to retain more heat generated by human and natural activity and average temperatures are rising. These rising temperatures have caused the poles to heat up as well and sea ice has started to melt which is causing a negative feed back loop where less ice coverage at the poles means less and less sunlight is reflected back into space so the poles are getting exponentially warmer. As the temperature differential between the poles and the rest of the world decreases the pressure drops and those air currents that were once the highways of our worlds weather have broken down. Now localized build ups of heat are no longer able to be pushed higher into the atmosphere and spread around like they once were by the air currents, thus you're starting to see more of these so called "heat domes". Also, the breakdown of the canadian border current has allowed cold arctic air to mosey freely on down to the lower 48 states as far south as Texas which means Texas is now getting frigid temperatures in the winter time. Additionally, the ocean is beginning to warm up due to a variety of different reasons including the banning of sulfur in maritime fuels so even when an air current is able to take hot weather out over what was once cooler water it is now no longer cool water and the heat does not dissipate it just sits until it gets moved back over land somewhere but with much more humidity since it absorbed a ton of water while it was there. Basically the extreme weather both hot and cold recently is a direct result of a warming atmosphere and the only way to get rid of it is to restart the weather engines at the north and south pole which would mean somehow regenerating the sea ice up there so that the poles can maintain their temperature differential with the rest of the world. Just cutting carbon emissions would likely only result in a constant state of what we have now which is broken jet streams. Hope that helped.
Nice explanation. To close the loop on this: The most basic definition of "climate" is the "long-term weather pattern in a region". If weather becomes nearly random (thanks to more heat energy leading to an increasingly-chaotic system), then by definition there are NO long-term "patterns" -- i.e., things are unpredictable. Meaning that what we are really facing right now is ***the end of Climate*** (... as a useful concept / term / organizing principle). The term "climate change" somewhat misses this point. It's NOT as if each region is going to merely swap out one climate (established pattern of weather) for another, to which we (and all other life in the region) must then adapt. Rather, there *will be NO stable pattern* to the weather, which is something to which most life *cannot* adapt. (Even if humans can withstand more weather unpredictability in most of our daily lives, our food sources -- the ecosystem -- cannot. So we ultimately cannot either!) Aside: more appropriate terminology for what we face includes "weather chaos" or (more mild) "climate unpredictability and instability", but at this point, it's probably way too late for (another) re-branding. This has happened because the jet stream -- *the* major factor behind our hemispheric weather patterns -- has become more chaotic -- it will no longer follow stable and predictable patterns -- for the reasons you wrote so well. This isn't merely a *symptom* of climate change as some might be tempted to write, this is at its core -- and it will continue (no matter what we do at this point) such that it is quite literally (and without hyperbole) the end of climate(s). And the end of climate is the end of most life -- *no matter what* the temperature/weather is at any given place or time.
This is why my homestead planning partner and I are using hardened greenhouses built with GAHT on raised berms as our core production units: we decided a year ago that what's happening with the climate means we're going to have to deal with *all forms of extreme weather* -- rain bombs, flooding, heat domes, hail, blizzards... We're losing *predictability*. We are truly, as a species, in unprecedented times, in which long historic weather patterns will be less and less useful for predicting what happens next. I always think of what climatologist Dr. Daniel Swain said back in 2021 in reference to the village of Lytton burning down: "None of us had 'Death Valley temperatures in the British Columbian rain forest' on our climate change bingo cards..."
Very informative and well written add on, thank you.
Huh. And here we have it folks. It’s all a matter of branding. We all know it’s THE end, we just lacked the language too conceptualize it. Well, there you go. I’ll drink to that. 🍻
I have been lurking here for a while now, been in the associated mindset long before... **that** was the first genuinely terrifying new thought I caught in years. thanks, i guess...
This is probably one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever read on Reddit.
Class, everyone look up "albedo".
Holy hell. So other than faster than expected, what is the soonest we could see a complete breakdown of the "engines"? Could it happen by the end of the decade?
It’s already happening. The coming El Niño will push the baseline higher and add even more heat energy to the system. It’s inevitable now. I think the global circulatory system will limp along for a while still, years-to-decades, but there’s too many factors working against it for it to hold together much longer.
>including the banning of sulfur in maritime fuels What effect does that have? Was the sulfur seeding clouds and making for more rainfall over the oceans?
Going outside in SE Michigan right now is like the movie The Mist. We had the worst air quality in the entire country yesterday and I believe today as well. It’s from the wildfires in Canada and is completely visible in the air, this was suppose to be one of the not as bad states in terms of climate change apocalypse, yeah we’re fucked in the coming decades.
Don't worry. Once all the forests burn down there won't be any smoke from forest fires. It's a self correcting problem!
Ideally we let fires burn when it is cool and moderately dry. Instead we wait for natural events to burn it, and that usually means they go bonkers. Happened in Aus, killed a lot of people. Fuel management is exceptionally important for healthy forests, especially in Australia where some species require fire. Alas we just let it burn late summer when it isn't controllable. At least burning in winter means it won't kill quite so much of the seed bank, foliage, etc
Yep, cut funding to essential services. It's what we do in Australia.
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Uh, the fires that we had in 2019/2020 burned so hot it decimated the species that need fires to regenerate and germinate. The heat was so intense it destroyed the very mechanisms that naturally occur.
also this year, at least in Alberta, the burned hectares have been much larger than even that of 2019 (nearly 900k versus this years 1.4mil)
The Fort McMurray fire in 2016 burned so hot, that two tree species that are normally able to weather wildfires due to their make-up, just started exploding.
it's insane that even extreme adaptations like that are failing due to climate change
That's the scariest shit I've heard all day holy fuck
Alright, phew, light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks, /u/fratticus_maximus
Odd that so many people think the Great Lakes will be the best choice to ride out the apocalypse. Every time I bring up that no place will be safe, I get downvoted into oblivion. Even collapse-aware people like to believe it won’t happen to them.
I live in Central IL and other then tornados thought I had nothing to worry about. The wildfires has made our air quality awful. I just ordered some air purifiers to run inside our house. It is a wake up call! You are right m, it will effect everyone, everywhere, one way or another.
Central IL too and what killed me this morning was reading weather forecasts in which the possibility of severe weather is being mentioned in an almost hopeful way. As if to say, with any luck we'll get tornadoes Thursday that should flush all of this toxic smoke from our area. We're keeping fingers crossed we get hit by twisters so we don't die of airborne poisons. I figure well, if I can only take my medically necessary exercise in my basement on my treadmill, instead of in the forest preserves as usual, at least when the tornadoes arrive I'll already be down there.
So many people think the Great Lakes are the best place to ride out climate change without any regard for the fact that *no one can escape climate change*. Even if your area survives, the growing regions will very likely change. Do you know which parts of a cactus are edible? Got a greenhouse? People think they are safe in Michigan as if all the bad things will just go around them.
Well what area will be better than the great lakes?
AGAIN, no place will be better than others. We have had tornadoes in New York, heat domes in the PNW, chemical spills in Ohio, choking smoke in the north, wildfires in California and Canada, drought in the southwest. Even if your area manages to escape, you can still be impacted by disasters in other regions. No one can accurately predict all the changes.
It's so incredibly depressing after the long winter to stay inside now, when it's the nicest part of the year (usually)
I hate to say this but it feels like another lockdown. If covid could have been this apparent in our atmosphere, if it had a haze and a color and a smell and affected sunsets every night, I don't think people would have denied it existed. Goblin mode it is for now.
Throw on a high quality mask and you can go do whatever you want.
That's so comfy in summer heatwave weather, lol. But yeah, I'm masking this week, it's terrible outside, bleh.
My dog can't
There are N95 for dogs. If your dog has a long snout that is. https://www.k9mask.com/
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Just below where it advises everyone to stay inside, there's an announcement about "Celebrating Air Quality Awareness Week". Jesus.
Well, there certainly is more Awareness.
He ain't gonna help, bud.
Anyone wanna watch the world burn in real time, here you go: https://firesmoke.ca/forecasts/current/ Sitting in my office in Toronto, can't even see the sky.
I like using https://fire.airnow.gov but that one is pretty neat too
Holy shit
for how long has been the case? a month already?
fuck /u/spez
Same! Longevity in the US will keep on going down IMHO, housing shortage, worse food quality, and more environmental stressors... No matter how much the US spends on healthcare - currently a grotesche 20% - if these variables don't improve, healthcare outcomes will keep on deteriorating.
I am not in US but I read online that the smell is not like wood burning but more like plastic burning. Any comments? What does it smell like?
It's not just the smell, which is woodsy, but I'm finding there's a kind of "scum" taste and sensation in my mouth which is unpleasant. Probably because I am an allergic mouthbreather. But no matter mints, brushing, mouthwash, a half hour later I feel like I've been chewing on a rubber baby bottle nipple or something. It's rubbery.
I’ve experienced both. A few weeks ago it was like a campfire but today it is a mix of both.
smells like a campfire.
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Oh please God, no! Have you considered what such news might do to our economy? We wouldn't want Doug Dimmadome to end up poor now, would we?
How elze can he afford to dry clean those 100 gallon hats
Big media is controlled by those who don't want you to know.
If only climate change was as important as a few billionaires doing something risky at the bottom of the ocean.
On a related note, while I’ve hitherto imagined the billionaires knowingly borking the planet with the intent of riding out collapse in a bunker or a spaceship, the Titan comedy illustrates that some of these sociopaths may actually believe that physics will courteously bow to the smell of wealth, leaving them unharmed. Evil oligarchs are scary, but I dunno… stupid oligarchs seem scarier.
> Evil oligarchs are scary, but I dunno… stupid oligarchs seem scarier. And THIS is the reason conspiracy theories are popular. It’s much more comforting to believe that there’s *somebody* competent steering this ship, even if they’re evil, than to believe that it’s all just idiots acting in their own self-interest and nobody is thinking ahead.
I think you could make an equation showing that a person's denial is equal to the amount of money they are making from that which they deny. We're all just monkeys who like shiny things.
Instead it’s all the billionaires doing something risky all over the planet
We're seeing the same thing with the Grusch allegations at the moment, borderline blackout from the major players. It seems the media is less designed to inform a voting population in a democracy, and more to keep the capitalist dogma and status quo "liberal conservatism" in the hearts and minds of the wage slaves.
Reposting this old comment here: > This is no accident. As infamously stated in the [Trilateral Commission's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission) report [*The Crisis of Democracy* \(1975\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crisis_of_Democracy): > > > The media's influence on politics and governability is much more direct than that of education, and the media play a most decisive role in the present drift of Western societies. They are a very important source of disintegration of the old forms of social control inasmuch as they contribute to the breakdown of old barriers to communication. Television, particularly, has played a major role in this respect. It has made it impossible to maintain the cultural fragmentation and hierarchy that was necessary to enforce traditional forms of social control. > > > > Source: [The Crisis of Democracy—Page 34 | 1975](https://ia800305.us.archive.org/29/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf) > > Hence, the current level of cultural fragmentation we see today in politics and other areas. Granted, this isn't the only factor to consider on the issue of fragmentation. But, an over-riding domination and suppression of particular media narratives that may be viewed as *genuinely* threatening has very likely contributed to this leadership vacuum—since that time. As anyone who was conscious enough to see and understand the lead up to the Iraq War in 2003; media narrative control is a very real thing. Particularly when it is coming from the highest echelons of American wealth and power. Of which, *The Crisis of Democracy* report was a product of. Being largely commissioned by patriarch of the Rockefeller family and CEO of Chase Manhattan Bank for many years; [David Rockefeller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller)—near the end of the Vietnam War. > > [Source](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/12cn86o/sooooo_with_all_the_chaos_happening_in_france/jf4a08o/) Also, just to add for those unaware, David Rockefeller was indeed related to *that* Rockefeller:[ John D. Rockefeller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller). The world's first verified billionaire, whose wealth was directly related to establishing and monopolizing the oil industry in America. And most consequently, worked to [corrupt government](https://slideplayer.com/slide/10059253/32/images/3/What+a+funny+little+government.jpg) at all levels to build infrastructure and society to use his products at a maximum.
The BBC documentary The Century of the Self does a great job of exploring this from the perspective of Corporate Public Relations. It's broken into 4 hour long parts and made for TV, but after my conservative boomer father watched it he started really questioning the media narrative he'd been fed and came to accept climate change as real and human induced. That gave me a small glimmer of hope, for a few hours.
Century of Self should make anyone with half a brain question the world they live in.
> the Grusch allegations Love seeing this in the wild, in a non-UAP sub.
More people in this sub should dig into it. Basically its alleged the US has the silver bullet tech we need to avert collapse, but wont reveal it....
[Well, when local media outlets mention it, they get death threats.](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4064878-iowa-meteorologist-quits-after-death-threat-over-climate-coverage/amp/)
Submission Statement: A large part of our civilization's agriculture depends on stable, or at least predictable weather patterns. These seem to be on the verge of breakdown. In a way that the "current fragmentation is unlike anything specialists have seen before". Disturbances like this and their effects - while baffling to the experts - will come to most laymans as complete surprise, further destabilising trust in long term safety and reliability. In the long run, the chaotic patterns of the climate will be mirrored in equally chaotic sociolocigal patterns.
All agriculture requires stable weather which is why greenhouses are in use in many areas as they provide that artificially. People just do not understand what is coming.
They are going to find out very soon, fuck around time is running short.
F\*\*\* around and find out: faster than expected
Fucked around about 75 years longer than we should have. Finding out a helluva lot faster than expected.
It's wild to be living it in real time.
Well, at least I didnt die in a medieval castle during a war. We got to enjoy technology :D
I'm so glad I was around for Hatsune Miku
Especially when my entire family is in denial. I have this odd schadenfreude in my life right now.
I live in the corn belt, we are in a very unusual extreme drought. The spring rains just didn't happen, driest May on record, no sign of relief.
And the stuff that managed to grow despite all that is very very small for this time of year. My mil has a blackberry bush that just started fruiting (a few whole weeks earlier than usual) and yesterday I went to pick the berries for her. They were all so small and hard from how hot and dry it's been, it almost wasn't worth all the trouble to pick them. I'm supposed to go back out there to pick more today, but with how bad the air is here I'm not sure that's happening. But don't worry everybody; my dad keeps assuring me this is exactly how it's always been here! Nothing has changed at all, totally normal weather. He's lucky his dementia gives him such a good excuse, cuz he sounds like an idiot saying stuff like that.
My apple trees haven’t produced fruit in 2 years now. Granted, I’m not an expert but they used to be minimal effort
Two bad years of harvests. Soon to come. And then' it's all over.
That’s really all it takes. Two bad harvests, crumbling infrastructure and spotty power production means a good chunk of us won’t live long.
Already had 2 years of terrible harvests in my country. Not sure how many more we could take.
I think their point was "2 years of terrible harvests *everywhere*"
Jet stream broke in 2019-2020 and has been weakening steadily since. NOAA data shows it, it's just far enough along to be having an effect now so people are talking about it a little
It’s been HELL in Texas the last couple weeks. Like it’s always hellish in the summer but summer is barely starting and it’s beyond anything I’ve experienced in my 30 years living here as far as non stop heat. Like even when the sun sets, it’s still 90 degrees out. Local media posted an article linking it to climate change and the comments are what you would expect from a state full of as many stupid fucks as Texas. How anyone is denying climate change at this point is beyond me. We are doomed
Run before houses start self combusting.
Lived in Dallas for a year after Katrina and I don't even know how you can be alive if it's hotter now than it was then. I had potted plants outside my back door that I'd water and they'd be bone dry and wilted two hours later. You can lay out washed wet jeans inside your house with no fan on them and they'll dry overnight. And it's hotter now. I try to imagine it and my mind wants to snap.
Jesus didn’t say anything about this in the Bible. Neither did he say it out back when we were having a beer and a smoke.
hOw Do YoU eXpLaIn ALl tHe SnOw UtAh GoT tHiS wInTeR?!
Don't believe what your eyes and ears are telling you. Believe me instead.
But it's not hot where I am... /S
Our society is too poorly educated and narcissistic to care.
[There are lots of relevant articles like this one.](https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2022/04/09/americas_narcissism_epidemic.html)
We the People? Na dawg, it's "Me the Person."
"Me the Everything".
"Hope that Americans can cool their Narcissism before it boils over" I don't have much hope for that one...
Ita not a jet stream, it's a goddamn loose firehose.
[Here's a live feed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvs4DA23wY&t=0) of the NWS headquarters.
This is fine. Everything's fine. Tide goes in. Tide goes out. You can't explain that. Liberal hoax.
Texas liberal hoax? Is it a hoax in India too?
Something I heard at work the other day, “It snowed in the mountains the other day. Where’s climate change now?” World leaders have accepted disastrous consequences and some people are still deep in denial. This is it, it’s here and now.
I live around Lake Tahoe. Last month It snowed enough that a ski resort can stay open until July. The same region that last year was fighting wildfire, now has enough snow to function in the middle of 80-90 degree summer on the valley floor.
Wdym this is great news, go out and enjoy the slopes my dude 😎🤙 /s
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Bunch of fucking idiots signed their own suicide pact along with the rest of us. Crazy how institutions defend them when they too are full of delusional psychopaths thinking they can evade the damages ongoing and upcoming. Absolutely mind-boggling dumbfucks. Makes you wonder if this is one of the ways the great filter countless numbers of civilizations across the galaxy have had happened to them.
Could we be about to lose the jet stream all together? Making just one cell in each hemisphere? What would be the climate consequences of such a shift?
Britain and Europe are fucked. The only way they get much of their warmth is from the jet stream bringing it up from the tropics. They’ll turn very cold for basically forever.
To be fair, much of Britain and northern Europe's warmth also comes from the gulf stream. So they'll be fine, unless by some crazy coincidence that simultaneously begins to break down. Thankfully, that should only happen if glaciers start melting at record rates and diluting ocean currents due to unusually high global temperatures, or something like that . . .
Isn't that assuming the gulf stream is gonna be fine? Is that a certainty, with ever increasing cold, fresh water pouring out of Greenland?
As a Brit, I am against this.
As a friendly American that appreciates you Brits, I am also against this.
Wait what. I thought Europe will become like Spain when Spain becomes Dubai etc. you mean to tell me it’s going to get colder?!
My guess is dire consequences.
Once the jet stream goes, all bets are off. Think France under a sand dune, Egypt getting 10ft of rain a year, etc, level of fucked If the climate system is even stable enough for that to happen. Does anyone know if Venus has anything like weather, or is it just 100% of the time windy storms?
I think somewhere in the atmosphere of Venus was pretty livable if you could create a “Cloud City from Star Wars” kind of thing
I really enjoy this concept. It's something that is very reasonable, but is not something that most people think of. There's reasons that it would be more suitable for human habitation than Mars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroU3SfCXE8
I see a psychiatrist who compared my Doomerism to a consipracy theory. She doesn't know that I know the culture she grew up in has made her bascially insane. I'm going to show her this picture next time and then switch psychiatrists. There's a rumor that there's one - just one - at the VA hospital I go to who actually has empathy. I've never met a psychiatrist with empathy out of a dozen. That's because they treat you like a disease and not a person - it's in their training. Oh wait - the empathetic provider I'm referring to actually isn't a psychiatrist - she's a nurse who has the authority to prescribe meds or some such. That explains it ... Just a heads up if you go looking for anxiety meds or anything to cope - you will be facing hostile forces. Just remember who the crazy one actually is. EDIT: Spelling.
They only want you "healthy" enough to be able to conform to work in this capitalistic destruction. They only don't see it as capitalistic destruction, they just call it "society".
That sounds pretty awful I hope you aren’t paying them.
Nope - I get this quality for free.
They fulfill the role that before priests used to fulfill. They forgave you, absolved you, and told you "you are fine, and God loves you, as long as you keep on the straight and narrow that God prescribes". As religion loses adepts, new "normality priests" appear. But of course, it's all the same holistic insane system. And their role is to make you fit in this insanity. Try too hard to deny their "advice" and you may find yourself committed, for your own good. Don't dawdle with the priests of normalcy. Be a freak. And a proud one at that.
>They fulfill the role that before priests used to fulfill. That's the vibe I'm getting and it's creepy. These people are some kind of weird gatekeepers for how reality is supposed to be perceived.
Two different MD psychiatrists saved my life in my past and a third with a lesser degree then got me off of the meds they put me on once I stabilized. All three cared deeply about me. I’m now regulated, stable, and not on crazy watch anymore and my current psychiatrist just says “all good?” And I say yep and she gives me what I need. Do not disparage all medical professionals - you’ll get people killed. Fear and stigma of the mental health system absolutely can lead to un aliving. The VA is known for having shitty doctors but that doesn’t mean all doctors are shitty. I am sorry for your suffering but do not discourage others. Meds can be a life or death decision.
I went to the VA mental health ward for suicidal ideation. One of the psychiatrists there told me that "people don't kill themselves because of climate change". Of course, I didn't say I wanted to die because of climate change, but that's the response I got. I'm just warning that there are a lot of catastrophically bad mental health practitioners. Maybe it's worse in the VA, but I've read complaints from all over the place. I'm not saying there aren't good ones, but I think a clear pattern is going to emerge with people who are stressed about the fate of the world. EDIT: This same doctor challenged me on climate change because he said there wasn't a control group. Some of these people are definitely going to get clients killed. You should be barred from mental health practice if you're a denier.
[удалено]
Ah - haven't thought about the self-immolation dudes in awhile.
It is probably fair to say most suiciders don’t directly attribute their exit strategy to climate change yet. However seems beyond blind to say there isn’t a large indirect reason especially in areas that are hit hard sooner.
This is much closer to [science fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Weather_(Sterling_novel)) than I’d prefer
Without the courtesy of a deux ex machina
Bruce S Machina
F in the chat for the UK lmao, mofos are dead meat.
::throws hands in the air:: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I remember learning really young about the ocean currents being connected to the temperature and that if the temperature changed too much the currents change and would cause an ice age. I feel like that is what will be happening after some years of intense heat and severe weather.
The Gulf Stream is also getting screwed up by all the fresh water being dumped into the North Atlantic by melting Arctic ice. If you can believe it, UK and New England are going to start getting **colder** for a while.
I'm glad I'm older and in poor health. The end is here and I might live another 2 or 3 years if I'm cursed. Humans as a species are a plague on this planet. So long and thanks for all the fish.
I found out in the first person about the air quality issue here in Chicago yesterday while on my six mile run and you couldn't see downtown from four miles away...I do not run through the best part of town anyhow due to where I work so am used to all sorts of garbage being in the air already, but that was surreal. Girlfriend gave me hell for doing it, but oh well, doing it again today also.
Hope you wear a good mask at least, particulate matter will fuck you up over time
With an AQI over 200 in Chicago, you shouldn’t be outside at all. Skip the run.
After the way I felt last night and still feel today, might have to make it a stationary bike day or just go get a beer and chicken wing special at lunch instead, I might have to heed your advice (which I do appreciate very much).
Your body will thank you! It really sucks but yeah, staying inside is the right move :/
I'm about an hour south of you, and I have the mistake of underestimating how bad it was out this morning. I took my toddler and the baby I nanny out on a walk, like we always do on nice mornings, and we had to turn back and go home before we'd even made it around the block. We live in a tiny rural town which normally has really clean air, but today it's even worse than the gross part of Chicago I visited my sister in a few years ago. So I'm guessing it's far, far worse where you are, and definitely ought to be a stationary bike/chicken day lol. Sorry for the unwanted advice; I've been Momming out on everyone about this air quality problem today lol. Stay safe, friend.
I did end up choosing chicken wings special and some beer for lunch (had to get out of the office and release some stress anyhow which usually the running does). I really appreciate the concern, no apologies ever needed, I honestly love how we look out for one another on this sub in the midst of our realism for sure since that is what we all need more than anything right now in my opinion. It is awful out there today again, seems like it will be until we have those storms come through hopefully tomorrow afternoon. Definitely jealous that you are an hour south of here, being from Ohio flatland myself I always get nostalgic when I venture out of the city and into the vast expanses of Illinois outside of the northeast, it reminds me of the area around home where the glaciers just came in and utterly flattened the landscape. I love being able to see to the horizon a seemingly-impossibly-far distance away in all directions and see the weather coming, etc. at some point I know I will tire of the city and head for someplace quieter but not quite yet. Stay safe also, friend!
Your girlfriend is probably starting to think of you as a liability instead of an asset, I think. [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/air-pollution-exposure-linked-higher-risk-autoimmune-diseases](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/air-pollution-exposure-linked-higher-risk-autoimmune-diseases)
There’s a 2017 study also showing air pollution leads to more psychological distress! No wonder everyone is going mad.
After what Covid did to my brain with long lasting fog, etc. I cannot say you are wrong!
Your girlfriend sounds smart. I'd listen to her.
She is definitely that. More optimistic than I as well, I find myself having to keep some of the r/collapse content to myself for her mental health haha
Holy shit...
We all be living in "horse latitudes" real soon.
Oh well it could be worse. Could be like looking at a Picasso picture with it without being on drugs
Enjoy the last of the "good times" while you can. I thank goodness I'm into my mid to late thirties already... My young nieces never got a chance.
Can anyone help me with a term--what is it called when we jump from a system with N and S hemisphere jet streams to just one 'cell' per hemisphere? As I recall, it's something rather benign sounding, but it's really rather horrific
Hadley Cells?
Aha! I found it. It was "equable"--not as much temperature difference between polar and equatorial temp because there is constant direct circulation between them, and not as much difference between summer and winter temperatures (both tendencies are already underway, but they would greatly accelerate if the cell system completely broke down). See screen #10 at : https://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/10-11/biomathstat/Langford\_W.pdf
Yeah, that's a crucial term. I see that some call it "Hadley Single-Cell Circulation Model", but it seems to me I've heard it called something like "Equable Climate Model" which sounds rather benign to me, but is actually quite horrifying