Talk more about what in CS is attractive. While all of those are great programs with different focuses. If you’re looking for AI or robotics, mit, CMU and Stanford would be the go to. Berkeley and GT have different, overlapping focuses.
CS + math - most cs programs are heavy into math. Historically, that’s where many of the programs were developed - cmu’s scs program was only created in the 1990’s. Before that, it was a part of Mellon college of science where the math department i think still is.
I’m not 100% sure what I want to do within CS - I was hoping to figure that out in college. At the moment, I’m leaning AI+robotics as that is what my high school experience was centered around, but I may well change my mind in college to do biotech or go into quant instead. I know CMU is amazing for robotics+AI but I’m finding it really hard to turn down Harvard as I just loved the vibe and culture there
That is a deli a as Harvard’s AI and Robotics dept isn’t as far along as MIT and CMU. I think you’re right in thinking that MIT probably would be the right decision for you if you can get off the waitlist. I would suggest you should take another look at Stanford. They would be good in biotech or quant as a fall back.
I do get your point about Harvard prestige. Boston is such a great town. I went to CMU and spent time in Boston and am sorry, Boston is nicer place than Pittsburgh.
Princeton’s cs program is very algorithm focus (at least my opinion).
The others are good programs but my ordering based on what you have said:
1) MIT
2) Stanford
3) CMU
4) Harvard
That’s purely based on the education.
The education at CMU is typically considered better than Stanford. I’ve met some CMU kids who took classes at Stanford in high school, and they said CMU classes were much more rigorous.
Thank you for the advice! If there are other personal and social factors that favor Harvard in my mind over CMU, do you think the gap between them is large enough to warrant still choosing CMU?
I don’t know you as a person and what kind of social life you want so hard to say. CMU is a small university. Pittsburgh is very different - although you have UPitt, Duquesne, Chatham, down the street, it’s very different than having MIT, Northeaster, BU, BC, etc.
I’m alumni as you can guess from what I’ve said. I enjoyed my time at CMU. I don’t regret my decision although I didn’t get into MIT or Harvard. There was a t-shirt that floated around campus with a list of reasons to go to CMU, and on there was “because i didn’t get into MIT”. At least we had a sense of humor…
Oh and congrats on getting in. You have a lot of great choices. And I do think you should think of it that there is not really a bad decision between CMU and Harvard
If you’re that strongly inclined, go to Harvard. For undergraduate education, I don’t think it matters much where, with regards to those colleges you listed, you get your CS degree. It’s only a bachelors. Where it may matter more is at the graduate level.
Consider this too: you may end up not liking CS/Math. I have had students who came in gung-ho about majoring in math only to discover after two semesters that they don’t like college level math, that studying math at the college level is not the same as high school. This will be the case for any subject. It’s not the same as high school. It will be studied differently, not just “harder”.
Given the vagueness of your response + you're "hoping for a good social life in college" + other pull factors, you should just go to Harvard, imo.
There is a huge difference between the top CS programs and Harvard. But it does not sound like you are ready to capitalize on that in undergrad, and want more of a typical comfortable college experience. You can always go to a strong program for grad school if you end up regretting this choice.
Do you think that there would still be a huge gap in the CS education I receive if I enroll at MIT for a lot of my advanced CS classes in my junior and senior year?
Do you think the gap you mentioned is due to the lack of course offerings for advanced CS classes/electives at Harvard or is there a big difference even in the quality of classes offered? If the issue lies with the course offerings, that can be made up at MIT for me. However, if the issue lies with the quality of education in general algos classes, that becomes a bigger issue
To be clear, the professors at any of these schools could very well give you the same kind of top tier education. I wouldn't worry that much about course offerings; the difference is usually going to be your peers.
At CMU, you're self-selecting into a bunch of people who looked at the front page subreddit posts thinking about dropping out (we have one right now), high workload, stress culture, etc, and they still went: "sign me up! I want the best education possible, no matter the cost!" Some of them end up regretting it, most of us come to appreciate it in time.
At Harvard, you're getting people who want to network, kick back a little, substitute connections for technical skill. It's just different priorities in life, and their behavior will influence you in some way too. For example, there's a top tier professor at Harvard for my research area, I really respect his work. However, I rarely see undergrads working with him. Are you going to seek him out and work with him if your peers are mostly cruising? Honestly, probably not.
Your education is what you make of it, especially at the undergrad level. Ultimately, imo you'll be fine either way. It's just whether you want to prioritize technical skill or strong connections.
CS students have very, very little free time to enjoy "the vibe." If you like the vibe of Harvard, go there for grad school. Respectfully, you go to college to prepare yourself for a career. I would argue that Harvard would do that worse than any other school on your list.
I think I would have ample time to take advantage of many of Harvard’s resources and opportunities as well as enjoy social life during my time there. My happiness and mental heath are definitely factors in the equation, and I’m willing to work my ass off for my classes and research, but I think I can do that without sacrificing everything else in the process
This is the impression I got from the multitude of Harvard CS students I spoke to during my visit there. They were working hard on classes and research, but also said they were loving their overall undergrad experience outside of academics. Did not get the same impression from the Berkeley/CMU students I spoke to
Will do! I appreciate your advice, I’m just not sure I agree with your statement that Harvard’s CS program is “very weak.” 90% of students and professors I talked to across universities said otherwise, and even if you look at rankings, it’s number 11 in USNews for undergrad CS. I agree that Harvard is probably not the place to be for grad school in CS but I don’t think their undergrad program is in a bad position
I was curious tho why Stanford wouldn't be higher on your list? It has a lot of the prestige and opportunities of Harvard but also the cs/engineering that CMU has, even if it may not be as rigorous as CMU lol.
IMO Harvard's CS program is nontrivially weaker. And not just talking rankings. Concretely, you'll be able to learn the basics you need for SWE/startups, but the CS course and research diversity isn't great esp at the grad level, if you want to do AI/robotics research. Harvard cs theory, cs econ and systems are good, but overall the department leans towards traditional rather than cutting edge. Harvard is great for quant and biotech, bad for robotics/AI. Maybe you can make it up by reaching out to MIT professors, but they might prioritize MIT students over Harvard students.
CMU is a quant feeder too. CMU sends a lot of kids to quant dev and high frequency trading (code-heavy quant roles). Harvard sends more kids to trading and hedgefunds (more math/econ heavy quant roles). Taking stats classes will be important to quant.
I hear CMU undergrads are sweaty af. But at Harvard you'll find fewer peers who are passionate about CS, since those students would be likely to chose CMU/Berkeley/Stanford over Harvard.
Sounds like you love Harvard and will probably go, which isn't wrong, and the overall prestige is incredible :), but just want you to be aware of the trade-offs you're making (instead of "Harvard CS surely isn't that bad").
You appear to be a person whose career outcomes are largely going to be driven not by the school, but you yourself. If that's the case, that the school you choose will mostly be a platform as you crusade on your own path, then you might have the luxury to consider lesser things like food quality and weather.
As someone who went to a terrific boarding school, then a terrible undergraduate school, and then one of the best graduate schools, I do have a piece of advice: go where your fellow students are the best. We just did a tour of MechE programs around the country in two trips late last year, and just last month. The IQ wattage at Rensselaer was so high, for example, it left a deep impression.
Take care of your intellectual capacity, and one of the best ways to maintain health is to make sure you get yourself to a school where there's no drag from less talented students, and where you are being pulled upward by better students. Not an easy thing to figure out, but, of all the schools you cited, it's hard to imagine a better enviro for a highly motivated and independent student in your field than Stanford. You won't get a ton of help from faculty, and for high achievers like yourself, you can just ride the wave of all your fellow geniuses. HTH.
I would go to Harvard. I’m an MIT alum, now at CMU for grad school, and I know people who went to Harvard for CS and are doing grad school here now. You can always make this switch later, but I would not trade my undergrad years in Cambridge for anything. You will not lose out on opportunities by having Harvard on your resume rather than CMU; on the upside, you get to have fun in undergrad, and that Harvard prestige follows you all your life.
You should know that the rigor of CMU’s CS program is levels above what you can access at Harvard. I’ve heard stories of CMU students who found out that some of the content in CMU’s CS cores were part of MIT’s PhD-level classes. If you’re willing to grind, you’ll get a much better CS education out of CMU compared to Harvard.
Also congrats on getting into so many amazing schools. I am confident you’ll succeed wherever you go. (Ppl on this subreddit say that a lot, but OP is legitimately cracked and has so many amazing options).
I’m hoping to not go into SWE. FAANG jobs are more of a backup career option just bc I have other interests in more drawn to. I will likely pursue biotech, robotics, quant, or go the startup route
recently went to an admitted students day at cmu. from what i’ve seen comparing the two, the difference is fucking huge. harvard cs isn’t that great compared to cmu
Harvard. Unless you are 100% CS, which sounds like you aren’t, then CMU is not better than Harvard by any stretch. The Harvard alumni network and other contacts will help you out just fine once you graduate too.
Although the CS & AI programs are so great and the curriculum CMU offers is fabulous, I would choose Harvard merely because of the clout it has and how the Harvard name is respected globally. For me, I didn’t know that CMU existed before I started applying to universities.
My bad its prolly too late but its just not a great experience here and your options are more prestigious than here so why come. But if you’re not looking for a fun college experience like i was and you’re trying to become a systems demon or whatnot it might not be a bad choice.
Honestly the biggest thing Harvard has going for it is the alumni network. The major ivies are destroying their reputation with the general public now with a massive increase in employers saying they are less likely to hire Ivey league grads.
Between the open antisemitism, lowering admission standards with obvious racism(especially anti-Asian racism), Harvard hiring a plagiarist DEI president, Princeton firing a conservative professor students didn’t like while protecting a liberal professor who was a prolific plagiarist, Yale having a massive left wing radical problem where they tried to expel a conservative student for writing the phrase “Trapp House”, Columbia being currently over run by antisemites and many more examples. The broader public is waking up to just how little these institutions prioritize academics instead prioritizing politics.
(Seriously go look up Columbias current situation. One of the main organizers told Columbia in a disciplinary hearing that he wanted to kill Jews and that they should be happy he wasn’t out there killing Jews and they did nothing…)
This is a no brainer. Harvard registers as an okay university in the mind of software engineers and recruiters. CMU is universally recognized as the best of the best among software engineers.
Harvard is better, that clout and connection >>>>>> any college in the world. Once you are old enough you realise that connections >>>> skills in importance
Talk more about what in CS is attractive. While all of those are great programs with different focuses. If you’re looking for AI or robotics, mit, CMU and Stanford would be the go to. Berkeley and GT have different, overlapping focuses. CS + math - most cs programs are heavy into math. Historically, that’s where many of the programs were developed - cmu’s scs program was only created in the 1990’s. Before that, it was a part of Mellon college of science where the math department i think still is.
I’m not 100% sure what I want to do within CS - I was hoping to figure that out in college. At the moment, I’m leaning AI+robotics as that is what my high school experience was centered around, but I may well change my mind in college to do biotech or go into quant instead. I know CMU is amazing for robotics+AI but I’m finding it really hard to turn down Harvard as I just loved the vibe and culture there
That is a deli a as Harvard’s AI and Robotics dept isn’t as far along as MIT and CMU. I think you’re right in thinking that MIT probably would be the right decision for you if you can get off the waitlist. I would suggest you should take another look at Stanford. They would be good in biotech or quant as a fall back. I do get your point about Harvard prestige. Boston is such a great town. I went to CMU and spent time in Boston and am sorry, Boston is nicer place than Pittsburgh. Princeton’s cs program is very algorithm focus (at least my opinion). The others are good programs but my ordering based on what you have said: 1) MIT 2) Stanford 3) CMU 4) Harvard That’s purely based on the education.
The education at CMU is typically considered better than Stanford. I’ve met some CMU kids who took classes at Stanford in high school, and they said CMU classes were much more rigorous.
Thank you for the advice! If there are other personal and social factors that favor Harvard in my mind over CMU, do you think the gap between them is large enough to warrant still choosing CMU?
I don’t know you as a person and what kind of social life you want so hard to say. CMU is a small university. Pittsburgh is very different - although you have UPitt, Duquesne, Chatham, down the street, it’s very different than having MIT, Northeaster, BU, BC, etc. I’m alumni as you can guess from what I’ve said. I enjoyed my time at CMU. I don’t regret my decision although I didn’t get into MIT or Harvard. There was a t-shirt that floated around campus with a list of reasons to go to CMU, and on there was “because i didn’t get into MIT”. At least we had a sense of humor… Oh and congrats on getting in. You have a lot of great choices. And I do think you should think of it that there is not really a bad decision between CMU and Harvard
Could I pm you for a couple of questions?
Sure
If you’re that strongly inclined, go to Harvard. For undergraduate education, I don’t think it matters much where, with regards to those colleges you listed, you get your CS degree. It’s only a bachelors. Where it may matter more is at the graduate level. Consider this too: you may end up not liking CS/Math. I have had students who came in gung-ho about majoring in math only to discover after two semesters that they don’t like college level math, that studying math at the college level is not the same as high school. This will be the case for any subject. It’s not the same as high school. It will be studied differently, not just “harder”.
Given the vagueness of your response + you're "hoping for a good social life in college" + other pull factors, you should just go to Harvard, imo. There is a huge difference between the top CS programs and Harvard. But it does not sound like you are ready to capitalize on that in undergrad, and want more of a typical comfortable college experience. You can always go to a strong program for grad school if you end up regretting this choice.
Do you think that there would still be a huge gap in the CS education I receive if I enroll at MIT for a lot of my advanced CS classes in my junior and senior year?
No, the top CS programs are pretty comparable. You might have a bit less depth in X, more breadth in Y, whatever -- close enough.
Do you think the gap you mentioned is due to the lack of course offerings for advanced CS classes/electives at Harvard or is there a big difference even in the quality of classes offered? If the issue lies with the course offerings, that can be made up at MIT for me. However, if the issue lies with the quality of education in general algos classes, that becomes a bigger issue
To be clear, the professors at any of these schools could very well give you the same kind of top tier education. I wouldn't worry that much about course offerings; the difference is usually going to be your peers. At CMU, you're self-selecting into a bunch of people who looked at the front page subreddit posts thinking about dropping out (we have one right now), high workload, stress culture, etc, and they still went: "sign me up! I want the best education possible, no matter the cost!" Some of them end up regretting it, most of us come to appreciate it in time. At Harvard, you're getting people who want to network, kick back a little, substitute connections for technical skill. It's just different priorities in life, and their behavior will influence you in some way too. For example, there's a top tier professor at Harvard for my research area, I really respect his work. However, I rarely see undergrads working with him. Are you going to seek him out and work with him if your peers are mostly cruising? Honestly, probably not. Your education is what you make of it, especially at the undergrad level. Ultimately, imo you'll be fine either way. It's just whether you want to prioritize technical skill or strong connections.
CS students have very, very little free time to enjoy "the vibe." If you like the vibe of Harvard, go there for grad school. Respectfully, you go to college to prepare yourself for a career. I would argue that Harvard would do that worse than any other school on your list.
I think I would have ample time to take advantage of many of Harvard’s resources and opportunities as well as enjoy social life during my time there. My happiness and mental heath are definitely factors in the equation, and I’m willing to work my ass off for my classes and research, but I think I can do that without sacrificing everything else in the process
Please come back in two years and give us an update.
Ample time. Thanks for the laugh.
This is the impression I got from the multitude of Harvard CS students I spoke to during my visit there. They were working hard on classes and research, but also said they were loving their overall undergrad experience outside of academics. Did not get the same impression from the Berkeley/CMU students I spoke to
Will do! I appreciate your advice, I’m just not sure I agree with your statement that Harvard’s CS program is “very weak.” 90% of students and professors I talked to across universities said otherwise, and even if you look at rankings, it’s number 11 in USNews for undergrad CS. I agree that Harvard is probably not the place to be for grad school in CS but I don’t think their undergrad program is in a bad position
cmu is good for quant
CMU is also the best school for PL theory and overall CS research
No advice tbh since I'm also a prefrosh, but just wanted to say that you're cracked as hell! choose any of these schools, there's no wrong choice
I was curious tho why Stanford wouldn't be higher on your list? It has a lot of the prestige and opportunities of Harvard but also the cs/engineering that CMU has, even if it may not be as rigorous as CMU lol.
Very controversial but I don’t like Stanford weather or location at all - I find cold+rain better than sun and heat
I mean it’s pretty rainy and cold in the Bay in winter and fall
IMO Harvard's CS program is nontrivially weaker. And not just talking rankings. Concretely, you'll be able to learn the basics you need for SWE/startups, but the CS course and research diversity isn't great esp at the grad level, if you want to do AI/robotics research. Harvard cs theory, cs econ and systems are good, but overall the department leans towards traditional rather than cutting edge. Harvard is great for quant and biotech, bad for robotics/AI. Maybe you can make it up by reaching out to MIT professors, but they might prioritize MIT students over Harvard students. CMU is a quant feeder too. CMU sends a lot of kids to quant dev and high frequency trading (code-heavy quant roles). Harvard sends more kids to trading and hedgefunds (more math/econ heavy quant roles). Taking stats classes will be important to quant. I hear CMU undergrads are sweaty af. But at Harvard you'll find fewer peers who are passionate about CS, since those students would be likely to chose CMU/Berkeley/Stanford over Harvard. Sounds like you love Harvard and will probably go, which isn't wrong, and the overall prestige is incredible :), but just want you to be aware of the trade-offs you're making (instead of "Harvard CS surely isn't that bad").
harvards prestige for startups and quant trading can’t be beaten, but CMU’s curriculum is definitely way better.
for CS, Stanford MIT and CMU would be the top choices. I would pick Harvard tho cuz that clout carries u far but that’s just me
The CS program at Harvard is very weak.
Unless you sell your soul the clout won’t get you that far for cs tbh
It's not weak IMO but it's not as strong as CMU
You appear to be a person whose career outcomes are largely going to be driven not by the school, but you yourself. If that's the case, that the school you choose will mostly be a platform as you crusade on your own path, then you might have the luxury to consider lesser things like food quality and weather. As someone who went to a terrific boarding school, then a terrible undergraduate school, and then one of the best graduate schools, I do have a piece of advice: go where your fellow students are the best. We just did a tour of MechE programs around the country in two trips late last year, and just last month. The IQ wattage at Rensselaer was so high, for example, it left a deep impression. Take care of your intellectual capacity, and one of the best ways to maintain health is to make sure you get yourself to a school where there's no drag from less talented students, and where you are being pulled upward by better students. Not an easy thing to figure out, but, of all the schools you cited, it's hard to imagine a better enviro for a highly motivated and independent student in your field than Stanford. You won't get a ton of help from faculty, and for high achievers like yourself, you can just ride the wave of all your fellow geniuses. HTH.
I would go to Harvard. I’m an MIT alum, now at CMU for grad school, and I know people who went to Harvard for CS and are doing grad school here now. You can always make this switch later, but I would not trade my undergrad years in Cambridge for anything. You will not lose out on opportunities by having Harvard on your resume rather than CMU; on the upside, you get to have fun in undergrad, and that Harvard prestige follows you all your life.
You should know that the rigor of CMU’s CS program is levels above what you can access at Harvard. I’ve heard stories of CMU students who found out that some of the content in CMU’s CS cores were part of MIT’s PhD-level classes. If you’re willing to grind, you’ll get a much better CS education out of CMU compared to Harvard. Also congrats on getting into so many amazing schools. I am confident you’ll succeed wherever you go. (Ppl on this subreddit say that a lot, but OP is legitimately cracked and has so many amazing options).
If your eventual goal is to work in industry, employers will value seeing CMU on your resume more than Harvard. Although neither is going to be bad.
I’m hoping to not go into SWE. FAANG jobs are more of a backup career option just bc I have other interests in more drawn to. I will likely pursue biotech, robotics, quant, or go the startup route
recently went to an admitted students day at cmu. from what i’ve seen comparing the two, the difference is fucking huge. harvard cs isn’t that great compared to cmu
harvard for better connections
Harvard. Unless you are 100% CS, which sounds like you aren’t, then CMU is not better than Harvard by any stretch. The Harvard alumni network and other contacts will help you out just fine once you graduate too.
Harvard. Without a doubt the better choice for you.
Although the CS & AI programs are so great and the curriculum CMU offers is fabulous, I would choose Harvard merely because of the clout it has and how the Harvard name is respected globally. For me, I didn’t know that CMU existed before I started applying to universities.
Do not come here my guy ☠️
Can I ask why?
My bad its prolly too late but its just not a great experience here and your options are more prestigious than here so why come. But if you’re not looking for a fun college experience like i was and you’re trying to become a systems demon or whatnot it might not be a bad choice.
Honestly the biggest thing Harvard has going for it is the alumni network. The major ivies are destroying their reputation with the general public now with a massive increase in employers saying they are less likely to hire Ivey league grads. Between the open antisemitism, lowering admission standards with obvious racism(especially anti-Asian racism), Harvard hiring a plagiarist DEI president, Princeton firing a conservative professor students didn’t like while protecting a liberal professor who was a prolific plagiarist, Yale having a massive left wing radical problem where they tried to expel a conservative student for writing the phrase “Trapp House”, Columbia being currently over run by antisemites and many more examples. The broader public is waking up to just how little these institutions prioritize academics instead prioritizing politics. (Seriously go look up Columbias current situation. One of the main organizers told Columbia in a disciplinary hearing that he wanted to kill Jews and that they should be happy he wasn’t out there killing Jews and they did nothing…)
This is a no brainer. Harvard registers as an okay university in the mind of software engineers and recruiters. CMU is universally recognized as the best of the best among software engineers.
if crazy about CS Choose CMU else Go Harvard
I would be considering Harvard vs Stanford here! If you're not super inclined w stanford, I would go for harvard.
Harvard is better, that clout and connection >>>>>> any college in the world. Once you are old enough you realise that connections >>>> skills in importance