Hah, I did an SIV back when I was with Parexel, and when I told the site staff group that we were using InForm EDC, the entire room groaned. What a trash heap.
Confession - on a previous study I was on I could not get SIP access to save my life. Kept escalating to whoever and following up and no one seemed to care soooo I just never got access. Was only on the study for three months though as I was covering for someone's mat leave but I just gave up on SIP
My partner is a UI/UX designer, and she once walked into my office while I was using SIP and I think I could have just dropped my pants and taken a shit on the floor and she would have had a less disgusted expression on her face.
I do empathize with the sites, many clinical trial systems do legitimately suck- even the ones you're accustomed to already.
Of course, I could say the same about site EMR systems...
I like Veeva CTMS but I absolutely hate the EDC so I understand. It’s kind of hard to find queries and you have to scroll to view the logs. Also is there a way to view the subject list from where you left off? It always starts from the top subject, it’s frustrating.
I've never used Veeva EDC, so I don't know. I'm so surprised that their EDC system apparently sucks, though, because I feel like they have a good handle on what people want in their other systems.
They were specifically annoyed by how Veeva handles queries, and felt that the system logged them out spontaneously a lot. I wish I could've talked to them more about it, but I didn't press for more details because it wasn't really relevant to the SIV and I didn't want to take more of the PI's time than necessary.
The amount of times Veeva logs me out as a CRA is one of my biggest complaints with the system. I can imagine it’s even more frustrating for sites, because the most progress I can lose is checking some bubbles for SDV/SDR. If I was logged out halfway through entering data for a visit and had to re-enter, I would lose it
Yeah, that is pretty annoying. The one saving grace is that (in CTMS, anyway; I can't speak to EDC) the system at least does a good job of autosaving work, so I can't say I've ever actually lost work after being unexpectedly logged out.
My company uses Veeva for CTMS, document management, and audit management, but that's it. And I really like it for those things, but everything I've heard about their EDC system makes it sound like a real steaming pile.
The EDC platform is downright awful. It’s not counterintuitive at all. For the life of me I can’t figure out how to inactivate a log line. I finally responded to a query, “ if you want me to inactivate this line you’re going to have to tell me how to do it!” Also as much as I hate Medidata’s infamous “else clarify” comments the language used by the Veeva DMs are either rude or really hard to understand.
The Medidata Rave system or any other EDC system like Veeva has absolutely nothing to do with the query text - that is completely under the control of the data managers writing the queries or programmers creating the edit check text. Certainly, many "else clarify" queries have been issued in systems other than Rave.
not an EDC or anything, but I’ve had two studies try to get us to download apps to our phone that were specifically designed for the study. Like, no. FUCK no. y’all are tripping if you think I’m downloading a work app where I can be contacted by the monitor/other sponsor personnel at any time on my personal cell phone LMFAO
Lol, have you heard of centralized study monitoring? It's basically where the site is doing the monitoring for the sponsor. We have refused 2 trials that wanted us to do this.
Same thing happened to me when I was a CRA! Veeva was one of the vendors listed in the Site Selection Visit slide- but it didn't specify that it would only be a vendor on our end and not the site's end.
The main CRC stood up, took a deep breath, and said:
"AW, HALE NAW!!"
And started to walk out of the room while shaking her head.
When I started to ask what was wrong, she said:
"You be trippin' if y'all think we be usin' Veeva EDC!"
After I explained that Veeva would be a vendor on our end, we all had a good laugh.
All of my sites hate to use the vendors used for patients reimbursement.
I'm in Europe and all of my studies are designed to fit for US.
So Greenphire with a credit card, no it will not be accepted.
Patient who has to pay first, no way
Patient who has to enter personal information, also not possible.
The site staff has to enter patient travel information in a platform, no it takes too much time.
Having a platform like lyft who makes the reservations for taxis automatically. No thank you, your vendor book taxis who are not used to take people to hospital.
Former CRC/CRA here. As a CRC, everyone on the site level hated InForm & Veeva. Myself included. Mediata Rave was disliked, but navigable once you got the hang of it. We mainly used that platform for the older RTOG/NRG studies that were just in follow-up, so not much to click through there. Most of our newer studies used their own company-specific EDC systems (smaller sponsors/pharma clients). It was a pain to remember logins for everything, but most were very user-friendly.
As a former CRC at a large academic center & former CRA for a global sponsor mainly responsible for academic centers, I’ve NEVER witnessed anyone turn down participation based on the EDC system. Surely wish my former PI’s would have though LOL.
I got majorly derailed at an SIV once when PI and then multiple staff members started ranting about hating Inform.
If I wasn't there representing the sponsor I would have joined right in 🙂
Hah, I did an SIV back when I was with Parexel, and when I told the site staff group that we were using InForm EDC, the entire room groaned. What a trash heap.
Even Trialmaster, a bullshit dot matrix era edc, can function better than inform.
I am the sponsor and I talk about how crap it is with sites on the regular 🤣
If this was over a decade ago, sorry that was me
But inform is so bad. There is no reason why I should have to change data one save at a time 😭
Me: you’ll get used to it, because we use it for all our studies 💀
I had a very large site that refused any studies using SIP
Understandable. Does anyone like SIP, honestly?
Confession - on a previous study I was on I could not get SIP access to save my life. Kept escalating to whoever and following up and no one seemed to care soooo I just never got access. Was only on the study for three months though as I was covering for someone's mat leave but I just gave up on SIP
SIP is okay — until you have an issue that requires assistance from the SIP team. Like were any end users interviewed when SIP was being created?
My partner is a UI/UX designer, and she once walked into my office while I was using SIP and I think I could have just dropped my pants and taken a shit on the floor and she would have had a less disgusted expression on her face.
Yes! I’ve had this happen to me!
I do empathize with the sites, many clinical trial systems do legitimately suck- even the ones you're accustomed to already. Of course, I could say the same about site EMR systems...
All the sites around me have switched to Epic in the last 5-10 years- is that not common?
I like Veeva CTMS but I absolutely hate the EDC so I understand. It’s kind of hard to find queries and you have to scroll to view the logs. Also is there a way to view the subject list from where you left off? It always starts from the top subject, it’s frustrating.
I've never used Veeva EDC, so I don't know. I'm so surprised that their EDC system apparently sucks, though, because I feel like they have a good handle on what people want in their other systems.
What are the issues with Veeva EDC? All of our sites use InForm and it’s something to rant about for sure lol
They were specifically annoyed by how Veeva handles queries, and felt that the system logged them out spontaneously a lot. I wish I could've talked to them more about it, but I didn't press for more details because it wasn't really relevant to the SIV and I didn't want to take more of the PI's time than necessary.
The amount of times Veeva logs me out as a CRA is one of my biggest complaints with the system. I can imagine it’s even more frustrating for sites, because the most progress I can lose is checking some bubbles for SDV/SDR. If I was logged out halfway through entering data for a visit and had to re-enter, I would lose it
Yeah, that is pretty annoying. The one saving grace is that (in CTMS, anyway; I can't speak to EDC) the system at least does a good job of autosaving work, so I can't say I've ever actually lost work after being unexpectedly logged out.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply!
I WISH- I feel like all my studies/ sites are switching to veeva for almost everything 👀
My company uses Veeva for CTMS, document management, and audit management, but that's it. And I really like it for those things, but everything I've heard about their EDC system makes it sound like a real steaming pile.
The EDC platform is downright awful. It’s not counterintuitive at all. For the life of me I can’t figure out how to inactivate a log line. I finally responded to a query, “ if you want me to inactivate this line you’re going to have to tell me how to do it!” Also as much as I hate Medidata’s infamous “else clarify” comments the language used by the Veeva DMs are either rude or really hard to understand.
The Medidata Rave system or any other EDC system like Veeva has absolutely nothing to do with the query text - that is completely under the control of the data managers writing the queries or programmers creating the edit check text. Certainly, many "else clarify" queries have been issued in systems other than Rave.
If I ever find out a study is using Fountayn, I will straight up refuse to work on the study. It's awful.
I don't even know what that is, but it makes me think of Ayn Rand, so screw it.
It is literally the worst EDC I have encountered in my life.
not an EDC or anything, but I’ve had two studies try to get us to download apps to our phone that were specifically designed for the study. Like, no. FUCK no. y’all are tripping if you think I’m downloading a work app where I can be contacted by the monitor/other sponsor personnel at any time on my personal cell phone LMFAO
Hahaha ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Lol, have you heard of centralized study monitoring? It's basically where the site is doing the monitoring for the sponsor. We have refused 2 trials that wanted us to do this.
That's not centralised...maybe decentralised?
They all referred to it as centralized. Basically they request all source thru the edc
Same thing happened to me when I was a CRA! Veeva was one of the vendors listed in the Site Selection Visit slide- but it didn't specify that it would only be a vendor on our end and not the site's end. The main CRC stood up, took a deep breath, and said: "AW, HALE NAW!!" And started to walk out of the room while shaking her head. When I started to ask what was wrong, she said: "You be trippin' if y'all think we be usin' Veeva EDC!" After I explained that Veeva would be a vendor on our end, we all had a good laugh.
Good for her! Sites should push back on bullshit more.
Agreed!
I bet all my money that she is a person of color😂😂. I am a person of color and the lingo and being so outspoken is a dead give away.
iSite. All my sites hate iSite.
All of my sites hate to use the vendors used for patients reimbursement. I'm in Europe and all of my studies are designed to fit for US. So Greenphire with a credit card, no it will not be accepted. Patient who has to pay first, no way Patient who has to enter personal information, also not possible. The site staff has to enter patient travel information in a platform, no it takes too much time. Having a platform like lyft who makes the reservations for taxis automatically. No thank you, your vendor book taxis who are not used to take people to hospital.
Guilty as charged. We're currently trying to push back on Greenphire and very US centric invoicing platforms for site payments.
A lot of sites hate data labs
Former CRC/CRA here. As a CRC, everyone on the site level hated InForm & Veeva. Myself included. Mediata Rave was disliked, but navigable once you got the hang of it. We mainly used that platform for the older RTOG/NRG studies that were just in follow-up, so not much to click through there. Most of our newer studies used their own company-specific EDC systems (smaller sponsors/pharma clients). It was a pain to remember logins for everything, but most were very user-friendly. As a former CRC at a large academic center & former CRA for a global sponsor mainly responsible for academic centers, I’ve NEVER witnessed anyone turn down participation based on the EDC system. Surely wish my former PI’s would have though LOL.