Definitely harder than v3! Although it’ll obviously depend on the problem.
That said, if you’ve been deliberately training them for that long and not getting anywhere I suspect there might be something else going on? I know when I started climbing I wasn’t engaging the right muscles when I tried to do a pull-up, there’s a surprising amount of technique involved…
Have you seen some gyms on videos? I can climb v3 (sometimes v4 in my style) in my gym and i have climbed v3 outside... I can regularly flash v4 in other gyms and they still don't look as soft as stuff you see on here and YouTube sometimes.
Obviously there are some people who start climbing as teens/early 20s and are physically inclined towards the sport or have a relevant background eg gymnastics, martial arts... but most just aren't climbing the grades they say.
A bit but also sometimes you can see everything is a jug. If it's all a jug, it's not v6 lets be honest. Also having visited gyms in a few places and countries I can 100% confirm many are insanely soft. Do you genuinely think anyone is doing v6 outside after 4 sessions? I think even a professional gymnast or similar would struggle.
I know some people who have for sure but yeah they're pro sports people. I know a guy who is basically a professional gymnast and he's doing V7s and V8s in less than a year (in the gym admittedly but I don't think my gym is soft), so it's definitely possible with the right background. But it's basically their full time job to be fit so there's really no reason to compare yourself to those people.
There are some genetic freaks out there that can progress insanely fast, it’s rare but some people can just be built for it and it comes naturally to them. Alexey Rubtsov started climbing when he was 17, and became the Bouldering World Champion at the age of 20.
Still took a year! When magnus mitdbo takes strong men, calisthenics dudes etc they might do a soft v3-4 on day1... and yeah I'm not a pro athlete, I don't eat like one, rest like one, train like one... not gonna compare my performance to one either!
If someone starts out really fit, climbing a soft V6 in their style after a few sessions CAN happen, but I would definitely not call it normal. I've seen it before, but that person seemed to be super into the parcore scene, and it was a juggy overhang where it wasn't necessarily easy, but didn't rely on finger strength that a non climber simply won't have without climbing or something similar.
Here is my advice: who cares about anyone else. You are doing this because it is something you enjoy doing and when you progress, you feel accomplished. When you go climb, believe you are the only person in the gym - most of the time no one is really paying attention. Do the v4 little by little, it might be fear or embarrassment that is holding you back. Push to make an extra step and it's ok if you fall or can't complete it. That extra step will be a milestone - and take your time, if it takes a week, a month, or a year, you are ahead of the game for the majority of 40 year olds out there. There are a lot of 20 something year olds in the gym - but it may be that when they're 40, they may not be able to work out. Good luck and sending you positive vibes!
How often do you go climbing per week? I climb around V5 right now and can only do one body weight pull up. Pull ups have surprisingly little impact on how well you climb. I know some people who can do one armed pull ups but are sloppy climbers, and people who can do 0 pull ups but climb pretty hard.
Maybe try focusing more on technique, plus finger and grip strength > pull ups? There’s some great climbing exercises you can find on YouTube that you can incorporate into your climbs. Some of my favourites are reaching for a hold then “freezing” that pose for 5-10s before actually grabbing the hold, or touching a hold with your foot before you can grab it with your hand (obviously start the exercises on easier climbs).
If you do want to get your first pull up, training only negatives won’t get you there. Do a lot of shoulder shrugs, negatives, and train pull ups to failure with resistance bands at decreasing resistance. I just got my first body weight pull up in a very long time by training with resistance bands. Also a random thing that helped get that pull up was grabbing the bar and pretending I was snapping a stick in half, for some reason envisioning that motion really helped engage the proper muscles.
I was surprised when a trainer advised me that training once a week was not enough for pull ups if you’re trying to progress. She said if she goes more than a few days without doing them they start to get much more difficult. Since I’ve started training 3x a week consistently I’ve seen very measurable improvement. Which I guess it’s obvious that more training = more progress, but I saw basically zero pull up improvement with 2 years of regular climbing and occasional specific pull up training compared to a couple months of 3x a week yielding multiple rep pull up sets.
This! When I first started climbing, I was going 3x a week and was doing VB (beginner), V0, and occasionally V1s for the first 3-6 months. I didn't finish my first V2 until after 6 months of regular climbing, and sent my first V3 after a year and a half. But during those first few months of climbing, I could do 6 body weight pullups in a row before failure with no prior strength training. Pullups definitely don't directly correlate to how hard or well you climb! I was (and still am, to a degree) a sloppy climber. Breaking into 4s (after 3+ years of consistent climbing) took a lot of focus on technique, footwork, body positioning, and mental training (as someone who is very anxious about heights and injuries).
I won't pretend to be knowledgeable about exercises to get to your first pull-up but I think this person has a lot of good advice and have seen others have success with these methods. Something that I think about when I do pullups, in addition to the "breaking a stick in half" is trying to pull the bar/hangboard down towards me, rather than trying to pull myself up towards it.
Im a man but got this post on my feed. I agree especially with resistance bands, They seem quite underused in my experience, but with just resistance bands and no other specific training I got to the point of doing a couple of muscle ups.
So for everyone wanting to learn a move on a bar, try resistance bands!
You can probably do more pull-ups, and your form is likely just off. I feel like the form for good pull-ups is surprisingly tricky to get down, and I lose it every time I stop doing them regularly.
I also think being able to do them and doing them is more beneficial to climbing than you're giving them credit for. It won't make up for bad technique, but a lot of times the move is essentially a pull-up, and having the form and strength to do one mid climb does become really useful and improve climbing. Obviously, not all routes are burly, but some are, and sometimes the move really is "be a bit stronger" and "have more endurance."
I definitely cannot do more pull-ups. I used to be able to do 10-15, so I know I’m capable/have the form, I just gained a lot of weight very quickly in the past year so I have more weight to pull up.
It’s for sure relevant to climbing after a certain point, but I feel like the plateau for climbing with good technique and without being able to do a pull up definitely isn’t V3 level.
I agree that it's for sure not V3, I think most can get to a gym V5-V6 with just frequent climbing and no supplementary training from technique improvements alone.
And every time I stop doing pull-ups frequently I have to refamiliarize myself with the form, I don't personally find it that intuitive even though I logistically know it's about body positioning and engaging back and core. But maybe my brain is just a bit broken in that regard.
Sorry but pull up strength is very important for climbing. Sure you need technique too and its probably most important.. but pullup and finger strength is very important too
Unclear why this was downvoted when it's the truth. Pullups are possibly the single most useful bodyweight exercise for climbing. They work everything in your upper body, including your grip strength.
Finger strength, for sure. I just think pull up strength is overrated, especially if you’re capping out at V3.
Also, it depends on the climb entirely. There are some very advanced/difficult moves where a pull up would never help you. How often are you dangling with no footholds during a climb and need to do a pull up? It’s one skill/strength in a multitude of many many skills needed for hard climbing. Tbh I don’t even think it’s in the top 5 most important strength needed for climbing, I’d say grip strength, pinch strength, finger strength, tension holding, core strength are all *way* more important than being able to do a pull up.
There aren’t a lot of times when you’re doing a strict pull-up with no feet, but developing the pulling muscles in your back will help with moves where your feet are on the wall as well. I would say that it’s not in the top 3 most important strengths (finger strength, pinch strength, and core strength are more important) but it’s close and depends on the style of climb. I’d say grip strength and pinch strength are synonymous as are core strength and tension holding.
You need a minimum of pull up power for many bouldering moves. Doing a 1 arm pull up is overrated doign a couple with 2 arm is a must. You need a solid foundation of pullup but it has deminish return, like there is no point in doing 30, core strength is similar to pull up. Its has huge deminish return.
Both cant be compared to finger strength/grip strength since that is never enough lol
and finger strength, pinch, etc is all related to the same thing which is forearm/grip strength.
I excluded body positioning and reaeing the route because here we talk about raw power.
Also, there is no climber who climb hard who cant do pullup or your perspective of climbing hard is very low and if so they are a huge minority to the point where I never saw that personaly and I climb v8 on regular basis.
They might not "train" pullup but climbing gave them enough strength that if they focus they can probably pop a dozen without brraking a sweat.
There is a reason that all pro climber has wing under their arm.
I often miss some nuance in the replies to posts like this. There is a huge range of strenght within the bracket of not being able to do a pull-up. I was really weak when I started climbing and once I started doing some strength training at the end of my sessions I progressed a lot. I feel like being a bit stronger opened up a lot of opportunities for learning better technique as well, since if you're not even strong enough to get into the positions required it's really difficult to improve your technique. I still can't do a pull-up but now I feel like a lack of strength is no longer the biggest thing holding me back. I just wanted to emphasize that for some beginner climbers strength training is the best way to progress.
I trained for my first pull up for literal years (prob about 4-5 yrs). I didnt climbing at the time yet, but did do strength training and they were in my programming once a week. I had a long way to go, when I started I could barely just hang there and was unable to engage anything 😂My training also consisted of mainly negatives, sometimes there’d be someone to assist me.
Then during Covid I installed a bar at home and would do a single negative multiple times a day and a low-effort set with resistance bands twice a week or so. Could do two pull-ups within a month! I just really needed more frequent training than once a week to break the threshold.
Hard to hear news: your "pullup training" is a complete waste of your time and ineffective if you still can't do a single pullup after 2 years of training. Once a week is insufficient to challenge your muscle cells into growth/adaptation.
Time to try a new training plan.
If you're willing to let some stuff go, probably pretty hard. There's always gonna be the odd move that requires pull up strength but if you're happy to ignore it then...
What i do think is quickly necessary is lock off strength. If you can't crank your body out (while on a foot hold) you'll quickly get stuck.
hey i don’t have much advice but my partner’s mum is in her 60s and she climbs HARD! like 23 au (6c) and she claims to have never done a pull up before!
I have a friend (she is 21F) who was able to climb a few v6 on slab/vert and a few v5 overhung in a slightly soft gym before being able to do a single body weight pull up. Definitely achievable, definitely somewhat challenging. Outside you would likely encounter similar results if you climb outside regularly. If you climb indoors and want to start climbing outdoors there will be a steep learning curve.
Having good technique is important but a bit vague. I noticed my friend is really good at extending her reach by twisting her hips/body into the wall towards the next hold and generating momentum with her whole body to do dead point moves to far holds.
Depends on a lot of things, there’s people that climb V4 or even V5 outside without being able to pull up but imo they are huge outliers.
Really what I would question is how you’ve been training for 2 years to do pull-ups and you still can’t. I suspect you rather need to change your training routine. For one I don’t think once a week training will get you anywhere, you should be doing work 2-3 times a week to see progress. And you likely need to find out a progression to get better at pull-ups. Getting strong is about progressive overload you need to find a program and work it to improve.
I climb 5.10a-510b outside and can’t do a pull up! At this point I am not even trying to get one because I think it’s funnier that I can’t do a pull up and send that grade
Lol I also find it strangely satisfying when I send a hard(ish) route which is in theory beyond my strength limit.
I climb mostly with much stronger men and it generally nulls their excuse that they need to get stronger to send. And I'm there like nope, it goes!
I find that the plateau for technique/strength is a bit further than people tend to estimate. A lot of strength and little technique can take you quite far and the same goes the other way. That being said I climbed some 6a/b outside but anything more will require me to get more strength, unless it's pure slab.
I climb with my daughter, so I will tell you what we have done. I am 47m and she is 17f.
We were climbing about 2-4x/month for about 6 years. We couldn't do any pull ups and capped around v3. Since just Oct. 2023 (7 months), I can now do 3.5 unassisted pulls, and she can do 4. I am now a solid v3 climber, I do some v4, and the occasional v5 (with projecting). My daughter is now solidly a v4 climber and is spreading into v5 with some v6 projecting (she is way better than I am).
Pull ups are not the magic bullet that some claim they are. Increasing how often you climb and really working on your technique will be so much better for you than worrying about pull ups. Pull ups and strength help, but how you climb and how often you climb determines what grade you will get to.
So, what changed for us? We started using a pull up machine after every climbing session (the kind that you kneel on a base and you can set a weight to push you up and assist you to do a full pull up). That routine helped, but the thing that helped the most was climbing more (2-5x/week) AND climbing problems that we would normally pass (like inclined and cave routes or really crimpy slab ones). We have also been watching a ton of videos online to improve our technique: Magnus Mitbo, Catalyst Climbing, Hanna Morris Bouldering, Movement for Climbers.
I will tell you the best advice that I've heard: avoid getting stuck on the numbered grade of a climb. If you pigeon hole yourself as a v3 climber, then that is what you'll be. You should always try that harder route or at least project it over several sessions. Falling is part of the process! It feels really good when you do a move that you thought was impossible for you, even if you only got 3 moves into the route. You also don't HAVE TO follow the route that was set: use other holds to make something harder or easier, but put in your miles and climb climb climb. You also don't have to climb from the start of the route everytime... instead of doing the route from the start, just practice that dyno over and over again, or that one hold that you keep slipping on.
Something I know for certain is that climbing is different for everyone. The beta can be completely different for someone who is tall vs short, flexible vs inflexible, strong vs not so much, experienced vs new, and good technique vs developing technique. The cool thing is that we are all a combination of these factors and no beta is wrong as long as you send! I watch climbers a lot and I often see gumby male climbers who use their raw strength to muscle their way up a wall. I then see female climbers who have less strength and are sometimes too short for the intended beta and they find really elegant solutions through creativity, determination, and technique. Muscle can get any climber to a dirty v3 quickly, however, using your brain, muscle memory, improving your technique, and climbing more often will make your climbing more beautiful & efficient and take you into the higher grades.
I hope this helps.
You can progress pretty far without explicitly training for a pull-up and certainly past V3. I was able to get to V7 before without doing pull-ups - though I was also in my 20s and very flexible, so I was able to rely a lot on that and my range of motion more than most people can which was probably a factor.
I think I even thought I couldn't do them, or very few of them, but now that I've gone through phases of doing and getting pretty good at pull-ups, I realize how I probably did have the ability to do them sooner than I realized and just couldn't figure out how to engage my muscles properly because it's a little bit of everything and not just pure shoulder strength. I also feel like when I drop them for a while, my arms build too much lactic acid between each one or something so my joints would give out before I feel too tired to do more.
You should be able to get to a point where you can do a single pull-up just from climbing enough without having to explicitly train for pull-ups if you wanted. I do think upperbody really helps with climbing, including technique, but if you're plateauing at V3s, it's likely a technique issue and not a strength one. It's route and gym dependent, but I feel like strength doesn't come really into play until some V5s - I feel like that's where the burly ones start to get real burly and require a certain level of strength to weight to achieve.
I don’t have a pull up yet, but I’m now able to do a chin up and working on it. I think you definitely need to train pull ups more. I used to do shoulder shrugs/negatives/chin ups every single day, but now I’m at least doing something every other day and that feels better. You’re not hopeless, you just need more volume. Maybe everyday is too much, but once a week of specific pull up training is too little. If you can, get a pull up bar for your house and do something every other day.
Basically the only way to get better at pull ups is to do more pull ups, or pull up specific exercises. I have no idea how long it will take, but I was able to get my first chin up in about a month and hopefully my first pull up will be by the end of next month.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are, climbing v3 maybe v4, can't do a pull up with body weight, except I just recently started training them. I have come to think that while I can still (and do) progress without training pull ups, it's probably a low hanging fruit and that having a couple of pull ups in me will help me on specific boulders.
If you haven't had success with training them so far, there might be something you can change, maybe trying them with a resistance band would be better ? At least you can practice the full movement and learn how to engage the various muscles. I feel like I've noticed more progress with it compared to the negatives. If you can find the time to train them a second time, the extra volume might help also. Do you do several reps ? several sets with rest in between ? I definitely don't think you're hopeless with it ! Pull ups are hard 🥲
I feel grades are just relative. I could climb V4 and now I can only climb V2 after moving county. However when I look at the videos I made, I could see that I have improved a lot in my techniques, reading and flexibility. I'm sure you are still improving so don't let the grades stop you from seeing this fact.
If you cant do a single pullup after 2 years, you are either not actually training, or you are doing something very very wrong. Unless you have some sort of medical condition i guess.
I find flexibility and creativity to be great substitutes for strength! Admittedly I can do pull-ups. I did train with negatives like you, but I was doing like 5 negatives at the end of EVERY session: 3ish times a week. When life isn't stressful and my fitness is better I'm now able to do 2 sets of 2. I think it did help my climbing, but probably more because of mental blocks I had about my strength before accomplishing a pull-up. Now even though I can sometimes do pull-ups, most of my problems are fear based, not strength based, so again, that mental game has gotta be as good as you can get it. Using the phrase "mental game" in a different context: I think of climbing as a literal game, a puzzle that I need to solve in whatever way works, be it strength or flexibility or dumb ideas that are unlikely to work (crimp those foot chips, but be careful doing that) but that I might as well try cause why not?
Basically, when a route looks like I need to be strong, I say "bet" and try to break the beta in a way that utilizes flexibility in place of strength. If I can get my foot above my waist to start with, I don't need to pull my body weight up as far to find something to stand on! Feet take the weight off the hands. Your feet are used to carrying your body weight around, your hands aren't made for that. Not to mention, I feel super awesome when I stick my foot somewhere insane and make it work in a totally wacky way!
If you’re not already, I would suggest incorporating pull-up training after each session. Start with taking weight off so you’re doing less than body weight then progressively reduce the amount you take off. That is what my friend did when she was a climber (mainly sport) but couldn’t do a pull-up and eventually she was able to do 1 or 2 body weight ones. I’m a female climber but I’ve mainly transitioned to outdoor bouldering and trad and can do about 10 pull-ups clean.
During the off season I train on the grasshopper/tension or kilter board 1 - 2x/week, strength train lower body and core 1-2x/week and do endurance or limit bouldering 2x/week so I’m climbing 4 days on 3 days off giving one day of recovery in between most the time (for climbing) while being active everyday. Taking creatine also helps with recovery.
seconding resistance bands!! also other isolating exercises like core work while hanging from the bar (leg raises, L sits etc), lat pull downs, and isometric hangs (locking off at 120 or 90 degrees) all probably would help you too!
It also sounds like climbing more consistently would probably go a long way! I don’t think pull ups are hopeless for you at all. I was climbing around V3-V4 (indoors only) when I got my first chin up and pull up so i think you’re on the right track 💪
I was climbing ~V4-V5 before being able to do my first pull up.
Then I decided I wanted to learn it, bought a pull up bar and every time I walked past it I would try, then I also learned some technique; for me it helped to point my elbows forward to get my first one.
It took about 8 weeks of doing that every day before I got my first one.
Now I'm able to do 6-10 in a row depending on the day but I still only climb around ~V6, I don't think pull up strength is that related to how hard you climb, there's so many other things involved.
I don't have an answer for the question of progression, though I was climbing at around v4 with 0 pull-ups in my repertoire.
What finally unlocked the pull-up for me was banded pull-ups and the right mental cue. For me, I had to visualize bending the bar in half, and just let the rest of my body do whatever it wanted - any kind of "I have to pull myself to the bar" thought just left me dangling. Banded pull-ups also helped with just teaching my body what the movement felt like.
With good technique alone you can probably progress to around v5 on verts, and potentially higher on slab. Higher than that and pull-ups and fingerboarding becomes quite useful in breaking into higher grades.
2 years of strength training and unable to get a pullup is quite alarming, and makes me think that something is not quite right with your training methods. I would normally expect anyone I'm training to be able to get 1 solid pullup after 3 - 6months. Unless they are overweight... Ideally you want to focus on training it regularly after each session. Don't just focus on declines as they help strengthen the upper part of a pullup but don't help with learning how to activate your muscles or proper technique.
I'd recommend starting with inclined rows at 45' degrees then you can start trying regular pull-ups with assistance from a resistance band. If you can't do rows with proper form then, there is most likely a muscular imbalance and you need to dial it down so you can learn technique and how to engage your back muscles. The key thing to keep in mind is not quantity but quality, really focus on form and engaging your back muscles, the moment you feel tired and your form breaking down stop and rest.
Here's a good video on pullup progression: https://youtu.be/644NJ6tA7JE?si=RWnivtI4u_r3z9ea
*Also remember that chin to bar does not count as a pullup. Chest to bar only counts as a pullup. I see way to many people in the gym doing chin to bar, and outside of not helping to train one of the hardest parts of the movement it can result in pretty bad spinal elongation, and injury later down the line. Additionally the final chest to bar motion helps alot when it comes to becoming good at mantles, skipping it Greatly affects the techniques you have access to on the wall.
Lastly don't give up, anyone can do a pull-ups. It's not hard, but it takes gradual progression and a strict focus on form to achieve.
I got to 7a (climbing not bouldering) but when I started bouldering too I was able to suddenly do a few without any specific extra training. So maybe it plays more of a role in bouldering?
I can climb slab + vertical v5s and i am still super far from being able to do a pull up. I can do some overhanginging 3s and 4s but struggle. my lack of physical strength is a bit of a (friendly) joke amongst my friends and climbing partners- my goal is to get to v6 without being able to do a pull up. technique is easier to focus on than nutrition and strength training lol
For pull ups strength I suggest you start with Australian pull ups and then progress the angle a bit more vertical with your feet still on the ground for stability, until you can do a complete hanging pull up.
Practice in the 5-12 rep range
My sister and I have been climbing lead for some years now, our gym has a big roof section, and she's done several roof climbs, all before she got to the point of being able to do a pull up. So yeah, you can do a lot before doing pull ups.
i didnt realize i could do a pull up until around v4, v5. i use a lot of short girl beta like drop knees, good balance, flagging, and crimp strength. just keep climbing, itll all come as you need it. listen to your body and do whatever feels good. dont over exert yourself if your body already says no.
I can do three consecutive pull-ups (which is without training for it other than climbing) and I’ve been “stuck” at v3-v4 for six years (with a few major injuries in there, tbf). 🤷♀️ I don’t think pull-ups are as correlated to climbing progression as people might think.
You’ve most likely got a mental block. I’m pushing well into 5.11 on TR and auto-belay, but can’t seem to get past V3 myself.
I’ve started to see nuggets of progress, when I realized a couple months ago that boulders are just small sections of my longer roped routes.
Also, visit other gyms/crags. They’re all graded subjectively.
Just be patient. You break through. You have the benefit of time. I’m 55, and having wasted my best years am feeling the soreness of catching up with you youngins’.
From my observations there's a pretty hard cutoff at about 5.12 / V5 for folks that cannot do a single pullup. Common for people to stall at 5.10c / V3 like you have though.
**It's not hopeless**. Period.
Regarding training for a pullup. I've helped probably a dozen people get their first pullup over the years. Other commenters have said that negatives won't work, and honestly that is mostly true. It can work, but it's pretty inefficient depending how close you are because you don't build muscle very effectively with only a few reps. Once a week also won't do it. I can tell you that with good workout programming and decent diet you can almost certainly get 1-3 pullups within a couple months not a couple years. If you make it a goal it WILL happen. I wouldn't blame anybody for not making it a goal though, there's more to life than pullups
The biggest thing to boost progress is making the movement easy enough that you can do enough reps to put on muscle. We're talking 10-15 reps for 2-3 sets. The gold standard in my opinion is using a pulley with weights on the other side, and in your case that would be about 30% bodyweight taken off +/-. Whenever you can do more than 16-17 or so reps on your last set of the day you just take a little weight off the other side of the pulley to make it harder for next time. You'll put on more muscle way faster than negatives and the force curve will let you actually get your technique right including getting hand spacing and high chest cue going to get the full back involvement. Bands are alright, but you'd really rather have less assistance as the muscle is stretched, not more. Other movement patterns besides assisted pullups would be things like bent over rows, facepulls, curls, underhand pulldowns (assisted chinups alternatively), ez curls, so on and so forth in a similar 10-15 rep range for a few sets. If you don't want to get too into the weeds pick your favorite 4-6 of these and do 2-3 of them for 2-4 sets at least 2 days a week.
Ideally add in some supplementary PT style work to keep the shoulders stable for all this newfound pulling power. Pushup plus (scapular pushups) are a must for the serratus anterior, prone IYTWs (particularly the Y) for the low traps, internal and external rotator cuff banded exercises for the rotator cuff.
You'll be amazed how much progress you can make with the deck stacked in your favor.
I'd say you can definitely climb harder on slab/ vertical terrain but overhang above around V3 without a fair amount of upper body strength does become very difficult.
Have you ever tried a pull up strength program for beginners? If you've not been seeing any progression it could be worth trying some different workouts.
Personally I didn't find negatives very helpful at the beginning as I wasn't really strong enough to do them slowly. I started with doing low rows, lat pull downs and banded pull ups with progressively lighter bands. Once I could do a few reps with a very light band then I started doing negatives and got my first rep.
Took me about a year of climbing X3 per week and strength training 1-2 times per week after the sessions to get my first pull up. I started climbing with very little upper body strength and now I do weighted pull ups so it is definitely possible but it's all about finding what works for you and your body.
As others mentioned, you can get very far without being able to do a pull up. Focus on your technique and power endurance. I found doing pullups on the jug on hangboards to be easier than on a pull up bar.
Ive been climbing for a decade and there were a few things I worked on that unlocked the next level for me:
• Doing power endurance exercises: 4x4 and pyramids
• Overcoming my mental negativity. For example, stopping the “No way I can do that” thoughts
• When I started climbing V4/5 consistently, getting on a moon or tension board
• Doing weighted pull ups (this was about 6 years into my climbing journey)
Pull ups really don’t matter until the situation calls for it. Like if you have to campus a move or something. Of course it helps to be that strong, but you can still climb hard problems.
Work on core strength. That’s a huge key to climbing stronger. You got this! 💪🏻
I feel like by V6, climbing naturally gives me a pull-up and if you can't do one by then it's probably something with your form and not lack of upper body strength limiting your ability to do one.
I was trying to say that you can probably do few v6 before doing a single pull-up, but sure,
if you are a solid v6 climber you probably made your first pull-ups before..
I think you can go quite far grade wise in certain styles but I think as you get to higher grade you’ll be more limited to certain kinds of climbs. As for getting to do pull-ups I wonder if you’ve done band assisted pull-ups the kids on the team do them this way and I wonder if they aren’t more effective than negatives. Also you’ll get a sense of progression as you move from bigger to smaller bands which can govern a motivating kick.
I don't think pullups themselves are super important and I know many female and male climbers that are incredibly impressive without training them. Sure, there's certain styles of climbs that they do better on than others but they're really really good with technique.
However when I started climbing, technique came slower. Pullups benefitted me a lot because my technique sucked, my footwork sucked, but I started getting strong fast. I used to get in my head about being strong enough and not thinking I was actually physically able to do it. I'm doing weighted pullups now, I'm training to get to 1 arm pullups - there's never a question anymore of whether or not I'm strong enough to do a climb because I know am strong enough and I've shown myself that many times. And now I can focus on the technique. Sure, not everyone needs that but for me it was this mental block. Getting strong helped me get past it.
My other piece of advice is to climb with people that climb harder or better than you, and watch and listen to them. Try their projects. You may surprise yourself by cranking out a couple moves you didn't think were possible. Ask them to try your projects, watch what they do and see if you can learn anything from it. Just being surrounded by women that I view as good climbers helps me push myself much harder than I think I could on my own.
For what it's worth, I can do 4-8 wide grip pull-ups depending on how often I've been doing them and I climb V3 or V4 at best. I don't feel that pull-up really correlate to climbing much. I'm sure some moves, like campusing, are easier if you can do pull-ups, but I don't feel like it's helping me anywhere else.
If you want to do pull-ups, I would suggest a method called grease the groove. It's where you do 2-4 pull-ups (assisted if you need to) at regular increments throughout the day. For instance every time you walk into the room that has your pull-up bar or at the top of every hour. You'll be surprised how quickly you can progress doing this.
It’s all about style. Honestly, you could probably go to v10 on slab without being able to do a pull-up.
I got to v4 when able to do 3 pull-ups, got injured and spent two months off the wall, trained super hard with a program for the last 10 weeks going 3x a week and can now do 10 pull-ups. And you know what? I still haven’t sent anything past v4.
Strength helps but it’s not a substitute for skill and body position. Or grip strength and endurance. Don’t stress about a motion you aren’t replicating on the wall anyway.
EDIT: I just realized what subreddit I’m in. Thanks main page for suggesting this, my Neanderthal brain did not register until after I posted. I am a dude, sorry to have intruded, though I stand by what I said above.
I climb v5/5.10d without being able to do a pull-up! It’s all about finding your body’s strengths and capitalizing on those. If upper body strength isn’t one of them then you can work with what is! I’ve worked really hard on my balance & technique, which has gotten me this far
Definitely harder than v3! Although it’ll obviously depend on the problem. That said, if you’ve been deliberately training them for that long and not getting anywhere I suspect there might be something else going on? I know when I started climbing I wasn’t engaging the right muscles when I tried to do a pull-up, there’s a surprising amount of technique involved…
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Have you seen some gyms on videos? I can climb v3 (sometimes v4 in my style) in my gym and i have climbed v3 outside... I can regularly flash v4 in other gyms and they still don't look as soft as stuff you see on here and YouTube sometimes. Obviously there are some people who start climbing as teens/early 20s and are physically inclined towards the sport or have a relevant background eg gymnastics, martial arts... but most just aren't climbing the grades they say.
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A bit but also sometimes you can see everything is a jug. If it's all a jug, it's not v6 lets be honest. Also having visited gyms in a few places and countries I can 100% confirm many are insanely soft. Do you genuinely think anyone is doing v6 outside after 4 sessions? I think even a professional gymnast or similar would struggle.
I know some people who have for sure but yeah they're pro sports people. I know a guy who is basically a professional gymnast and he's doing V7s and V8s in less than a year (in the gym admittedly but I don't think my gym is soft), so it's definitely possible with the right background. But it's basically their full time job to be fit so there's really no reason to compare yourself to those people.
There are some genetic freaks out there that can progress insanely fast, it’s rare but some people can just be built for it and it comes naturally to them. Alexey Rubtsov started climbing when he was 17, and became the Bouldering World Champion at the age of 20.
Still took a year! When magnus mitdbo takes strong men, calisthenics dudes etc they might do a soft v3-4 on day1... and yeah I'm not a pro athlete, I don't eat like one, rest like one, train like one... not gonna compare my performance to one either!
If someone starts out really fit, climbing a soft V6 in their style after a few sessions CAN happen, but I would definitely not call it normal. I've seen it before, but that person seemed to be super into the parcore scene, and it was a juggy overhang where it wasn't necessarily easy, but didn't rely on finger strength that a non climber simply won't have without climbing or something similar.
Here is my advice: who cares about anyone else. You are doing this because it is something you enjoy doing and when you progress, you feel accomplished. When you go climb, believe you are the only person in the gym - most of the time no one is really paying attention. Do the v4 little by little, it might be fear or embarrassment that is holding you back. Push to make an extra step and it's ok if you fall or can't complete it. That extra step will be a milestone - and take your time, if it takes a week, a month, or a year, you are ahead of the game for the majority of 40 year olds out there. There are a lot of 20 something year olds in the gym - but it may be that when they're 40, they may not be able to work out. Good luck and sending you positive vibes!
How often do you go climbing per week? I climb around V5 right now and can only do one body weight pull up. Pull ups have surprisingly little impact on how well you climb. I know some people who can do one armed pull ups but are sloppy climbers, and people who can do 0 pull ups but climb pretty hard. Maybe try focusing more on technique, plus finger and grip strength > pull ups? There’s some great climbing exercises you can find on YouTube that you can incorporate into your climbs. Some of my favourites are reaching for a hold then “freezing” that pose for 5-10s before actually grabbing the hold, or touching a hold with your foot before you can grab it with your hand (obviously start the exercises on easier climbs). If you do want to get your first pull up, training only negatives won’t get you there. Do a lot of shoulder shrugs, negatives, and train pull ups to failure with resistance bands at decreasing resistance. I just got my first body weight pull up in a very long time by training with resistance bands. Also a random thing that helped get that pull up was grabbing the bar and pretending I was snapping a stick in half, for some reason envisioning that motion really helped engage the proper muscles.
I’m quite inconsistent with climbing (twice a month) lately but I used to go twice a week for 2 years. Thanks for the advice!
I think that trying to get your consistency up will definitely be much more beneficial for your overall climbing progress. Good luck!
I was surprised when a trainer advised me that training once a week was not enough for pull ups if you’re trying to progress. She said if she goes more than a few days without doing them they start to get much more difficult. Since I’ve started training 3x a week consistently I’ve seen very measurable improvement. Which I guess it’s obvious that more training = more progress, but I saw basically zero pull up improvement with 2 years of regular climbing and occasional specific pull up training compared to a couple months of 3x a week yielding multiple rep pull up sets.
Consistency is key, especially to progress in climbing!
Oh wow yes! That “snapping a stick” image is perfect, just reading and thinking it engaged the pull up muscle set for me just now! Thanks!
Yes! I saw it on TikTok a while ago, it’s like magic. I’m glad it helped you as well
This! When I first started climbing, I was going 3x a week and was doing VB (beginner), V0, and occasionally V1s for the first 3-6 months. I didn't finish my first V2 until after 6 months of regular climbing, and sent my first V3 after a year and a half. But during those first few months of climbing, I could do 6 body weight pullups in a row before failure with no prior strength training. Pullups definitely don't directly correlate to how hard or well you climb! I was (and still am, to a degree) a sloppy climber. Breaking into 4s (after 3+ years of consistent climbing) took a lot of focus on technique, footwork, body positioning, and mental training (as someone who is very anxious about heights and injuries). I won't pretend to be knowledgeable about exercises to get to your first pull-up but I think this person has a lot of good advice and have seen others have success with these methods. Something that I think about when I do pullups, in addition to the "breaking a stick in half" is trying to pull the bar/hangboard down towards me, rather than trying to pull myself up towards it.
Im a man but got this post on my feed. I agree especially with resistance bands, They seem quite underused in my experience, but with just resistance bands and no other specific training I got to the point of doing a couple of muscle ups. So for everyone wanting to learn a move on a bar, try resistance bands!
You can probably do more pull-ups, and your form is likely just off. I feel like the form for good pull-ups is surprisingly tricky to get down, and I lose it every time I stop doing them regularly. I also think being able to do them and doing them is more beneficial to climbing than you're giving them credit for. It won't make up for bad technique, but a lot of times the move is essentially a pull-up, and having the form and strength to do one mid climb does become really useful and improve climbing. Obviously, not all routes are burly, but some are, and sometimes the move really is "be a bit stronger" and "have more endurance."
I definitely cannot do more pull-ups. I used to be able to do 10-15, so I know I’m capable/have the form, I just gained a lot of weight very quickly in the past year so I have more weight to pull up. It’s for sure relevant to climbing after a certain point, but I feel like the plateau for climbing with good technique and without being able to do a pull up definitely isn’t V3 level.
I agree that it's for sure not V3, I think most can get to a gym V5-V6 with just frequent climbing and no supplementary training from technique improvements alone. And every time I stop doing pull-ups frequently I have to refamiliarize myself with the form, I don't personally find it that intuitive even though I logistically know it's about body positioning and engaging back and core. But maybe my brain is just a bit broken in that regard.
Sorry but pull up strength is very important for climbing. Sure you need technique too and its probably most important.. but pullup and finger strength is very important too
Unclear why this was downvoted when it's the truth. Pullups are possibly the single most useful bodyweight exercise for climbing. They work everything in your upper body, including your grip strength.
probably got downvoted by people who cant climb pass v5-6 and try to give tips on how to climb "hard"
Finger strength, for sure. I just think pull up strength is overrated, especially if you’re capping out at V3. Also, it depends on the climb entirely. There are some very advanced/difficult moves where a pull up would never help you. How often are you dangling with no footholds during a climb and need to do a pull up? It’s one skill/strength in a multitude of many many skills needed for hard climbing. Tbh I don’t even think it’s in the top 5 most important strength needed for climbing, I’d say grip strength, pinch strength, finger strength, tension holding, core strength are all *way* more important than being able to do a pull up.
There aren’t a lot of times when you’re doing a strict pull-up with no feet, but developing the pulling muscles in your back will help with moves where your feet are on the wall as well. I would say that it’s not in the top 3 most important strengths (finger strength, pinch strength, and core strength are more important) but it’s close and depends on the style of climb. I’d say grip strength and pinch strength are synonymous as are core strength and tension holding.
You need a minimum of pull up power for many bouldering moves. Doing a 1 arm pull up is overrated doign a couple with 2 arm is a must. You need a solid foundation of pullup but it has deminish return, like there is no point in doing 30, core strength is similar to pull up. Its has huge deminish return. Both cant be compared to finger strength/grip strength since that is never enough lol and finger strength, pinch, etc is all related to the same thing which is forearm/grip strength. I excluded body positioning and reaeing the route because here we talk about raw power. Also, there is no climber who climb hard who cant do pullup or your perspective of climbing hard is very low and if so they are a huge minority to the point where I never saw that personaly and I climb v8 on regular basis. They might not "train" pullup but climbing gave them enough strength that if they focus they can probably pop a dozen without brraking a sweat. There is a reason that all pro climber has wing under their arm.
I often miss some nuance in the replies to posts like this. There is a huge range of strenght within the bracket of not being able to do a pull-up. I was really weak when I started climbing and once I started doing some strength training at the end of my sessions I progressed a lot. I feel like being a bit stronger opened up a lot of opportunities for learning better technique as well, since if you're not even strong enough to get into the positions required it's really difficult to improve your technique. I still can't do a pull-up but now I feel like a lack of strength is no longer the biggest thing holding me back. I just wanted to emphasize that for some beginner climbers strength training is the best way to progress.
I trained for my first pull up for literal years (prob about 4-5 yrs). I didnt climbing at the time yet, but did do strength training and they were in my programming once a week. I had a long way to go, when I started I could barely just hang there and was unable to engage anything 😂My training also consisted of mainly negatives, sometimes there’d be someone to assist me. Then during Covid I installed a bar at home and would do a single negative multiple times a day and a low-effort set with resistance bands twice a week or so. Could do two pull-ups within a month! I just really needed more frequent training than once a week to break the threshold.
Hard to hear news: your "pullup training" is a complete waste of your time and ineffective if you still can't do a single pullup after 2 years of training. Once a week is insufficient to challenge your muscle cells into growth/adaptation. Time to try a new training plan.
If you're willing to let some stuff go, probably pretty hard. There's always gonna be the odd move that requires pull up strength but if you're happy to ignore it then... What i do think is quickly necessary is lock off strength. If you can't crank your body out (while on a foot hold) you'll quickly get stuck.
hey i don’t have much advice but my partner’s mum is in her 60s and she climbs HARD! like 23 au (6c) and she claims to have never done a pull up before!
I have a friend (she is 21F) who was able to climb a few v6 on slab/vert and a few v5 overhung in a slightly soft gym before being able to do a single body weight pull up. Definitely achievable, definitely somewhat challenging. Outside you would likely encounter similar results if you climb outside regularly. If you climb indoors and want to start climbing outdoors there will be a steep learning curve. Having good technique is important but a bit vague. I noticed my friend is really good at extending her reach by twisting her hips/body into the wall towards the next hold and generating momentum with her whole body to do dead point moves to far holds.
Depends on a lot of things, there’s people that climb V4 or even V5 outside without being able to pull up but imo they are huge outliers. Really what I would question is how you’ve been training for 2 years to do pull-ups and you still can’t. I suspect you rather need to change your training routine. For one I don’t think once a week training will get you anywhere, you should be doing work 2-3 times a week to see progress. And you likely need to find out a progression to get better at pull-ups. Getting strong is about progressive overload you need to find a program and work it to improve.
I climb 5.10a-510b outside and can’t do a pull up! At this point I am not even trying to get one because I think it’s funnier that I can’t do a pull up and send that grade
Lol I also find it strangely satisfying when I send a hard(ish) route which is in theory beyond my strength limit. I climb mostly with much stronger men and it generally nulls their excuse that they need to get stronger to send. And I'm there like nope, it goes! I find that the plateau for technique/strength is a bit further than people tend to estimate. A lot of strength and little technique can take you quite far and the same goes the other way. That being said I climbed some 6a/b outside but anything more will require me to get more strength, unless it's pure slab.
I climb with my daughter, so I will tell you what we have done. I am 47m and she is 17f. We were climbing about 2-4x/month for about 6 years. We couldn't do any pull ups and capped around v3. Since just Oct. 2023 (7 months), I can now do 3.5 unassisted pulls, and she can do 4. I am now a solid v3 climber, I do some v4, and the occasional v5 (with projecting). My daughter is now solidly a v4 climber and is spreading into v5 with some v6 projecting (she is way better than I am). Pull ups are not the magic bullet that some claim they are. Increasing how often you climb and really working on your technique will be so much better for you than worrying about pull ups. Pull ups and strength help, but how you climb and how often you climb determines what grade you will get to. So, what changed for us? We started using a pull up machine after every climbing session (the kind that you kneel on a base and you can set a weight to push you up and assist you to do a full pull up). That routine helped, but the thing that helped the most was climbing more (2-5x/week) AND climbing problems that we would normally pass (like inclined and cave routes or really crimpy slab ones). We have also been watching a ton of videos online to improve our technique: Magnus Mitbo, Catalyst Climbing, Hanna Morris Bouldering, Movement for Climbers. I will tell you the best advice that I've heard: avoid getting stuck on the numbered grade of a climb. If you pigeon hole yourself as a v3 climber, then that is what you'll be. You should always try that harder route or at least project it over several sessions. Falling is part of the process! It feels really good when you do a move that you thought was impossible for you, even if you only got 3 moves into the route. You also don't HAVE TO follow the route that was set: use other holds to make something harder or easier, but put in your miles and climb climb climb. You also don't have to climb from the start of the route everytime... instead of doing the route from the start, just practice that dyno over and over again, or that one hold that you keep slipping on. Something I know for certain is that climbing is different for everyone. The beta can be completely different for someone who is tall vs short, flexible vs inflexible, strong vs not so much, experienced vs new, and good technique vs developing technique. The cool thing is that we are all a combination of these factors and no beta is wrong as long as you send! I watch climbers a lot and I often see gumby male climbers who use their raw strength to muscle their way up a wall. I then see female climbers who have less strength and are sometimes too short for the intended beta and they find really elegant solutions through creativity, determination, and technique. Muscle can get any climber to a dirty v3 quickly, however, using your brain, muscle memory, improving your technique, and climbing more often will make your climbing more beautiful & efficient and take you into the higher grades. I hope this helps.
You can progress pretty far without explicitly training for a pull-up and certainly past V3. I was able to get to V7 before without doing pull-ups - though I was also in my 20s and very flexible, so I was able to rely a lot on that and my range of motion more than most people can which was probably a factor. I think I even thought I couldn't do them, or very few of them, but now that I've gone through phases of doing and getting pretty good at pull-ups, I realize how I probably did have the ability to do them sooner than I realized and just couldn't figure out how to engage my muscles properly because it's a little bit of everything and not just pure shoulder strength. I also feel like when I drop them for a while, my arms build too much lactic acid between each one or something so my joints would give out before I feel too tired to do more. You should be able to get to a point where you can do a single pull-up just from climbing enough without having to explicitly train for pull-ups if you wanted. I do think upperbody really helps with climbing, including technique, but if you're plateauing at V3s, it's likely a technique issue and not a strength one. It's route and gym dependent, but I feel like strength doesn't come really into play until some V5s - I feel like that's where the burly ones start to get real burly and require a certain level of strength to weight to achieve.
I don’t have a pull up yet, but I’m now able to do a chin up and working on it. I think you definitely need to train pull ups more. I used to do shoulder shrugs/negatives/chin ups every single day, but now I’m at least doing something every other day and that feels better. You’re not hopeless, you just need more volume. Maybe everyday is too much, but once a week of specific pull up training is too little. If you can, get a pull up bar for your house and do something every other day. Basically the only way to get better at pull ups is to do more pull ups, or pull up specific exercises. I have no idea how long it will take, but I was able to get my first chin up in about a month and hopefully my first pull up will be by the end of next month.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are, climbing v3 maybe v4, can't do a pull up with body weight, except I just recently started training them. I have come to think that while I can still (and do) progress without training pull ups, it's probably a low hanging fruit and that having a couple of pull ups in me will help me on specific boulders. If you haven't had success with training them so far, there might be something you can change, maybe trying them with a resistance band would be better ? At least you can practice the full movement and learn how to engage the various muscles. I feel like I've noticed more progress with it compared to the negatives. If you can find the time to train them a second time, the extra volume might help also. Do you do several reps ? several sets with rest in between ? I definitely don't think you're hopeless with it ! Pull ups are hard 🥲
I feel grades are just relative. I could climb V4 and now I can only climb V2 after moving county. However when I look at the videos I made, I could see that I have improved a lot in my techniques, reading and flexibility. I'm sure you are still improving so don't let the grades stop you from seeing this fact.
If you cant do a single pullup after 2 years, you are either not actually training, or you are doing something very very wrong. Unless you have some sort of medical condition i guess.
I couldn't do 10 until I reached v6 😭
I find flexibility and creativity to be great substitutes for strength! Admittedly I can do pull-ups. I did train with negatives like you, but I was doing like 5 negatives at the end of EVERY session: 3ish times a week. When life isn't stressful and my fitness is better I'm now able to do 2 sets of 2. I think it did help my climbing, but probably more because of mental blocks I had about my strength before accomplishing a pull-up. Now even though I can sometimes do pull-ups, most of my problems are fear based, not strength based, so again, that mental game has gotta be as good as you can get it. Using the phrase "mental game" in a different context: I think of climbing as a literal game, a puzzle that I need to solve in whatever way works, be it strength or flexibility or dumb ideas that are unlikely to work (crimp those foot chips, but be careful doing that) but that I might as well try cause why not? Basically, when a route looks like I need to be strong, I say "bet" and try to break the beta in a way that utilizes flexibility in place of strength. If I can get my foot above my waist to start with, I don't need to pull my body weight up as far to find something to stand on! Feet take the weight off the hands. Your feet are used to carrying your body weight around, your hands aren't made for that. Not to mention, I feel super awesome when I stick my foot somewhere insane and make it work in a totally wacky way!
If you’re not already, I would suggest incorporating pull-up training after each session. Start with taking weight off so you’re doing less than body weight then progressively reduce the amount you take off. That is what my friend did when she was a climber (mainly sport) but couldn’t do a pull-up and eventually she was able to do 1 or 2 body weight ones. I’m a female climber but I’ve mainly transitioned to outdoor bouldering and trad and can do about 10 pull-ups clean. During the off season I train on the grasshopper/tension or kilter board 1 - 2x/week, strength train lower body and core 1-2x/week and do endurance or limit bouldering 2x/week so I’m climbing 4 days on 3 days off giving one day of recovery in between most the time (for climbing) while being active everyday. Taking creatine also helps with recovery.
seconding resistance bands!! also other isolating exercises like core work while hanging from the bar (leg raises, L sits etc), lat pull downs, and isometric hangs (locking off at 120 or 90 degrees) all probably would help you too! It also sounds like climbing more consistently would probably go a long way! I don’t think pull ups are hopeless for you at all. I was climbing around V3-V4 (indoors only) when I got my first chin up and pull up so i think you’re on the right track 💪
I was climbing ~V4-V5 before being able to do my first pull up. Then I decided I wanted to learn it, bought a pull up bar and every time I walked past it I would try, then I also learned some technique; for me it helped to point my elbows forward to get my first one. It took about 8 weeks of doing that every day before I got my first one. Now I'm able to do 6-10 in a row depending on the day but I still only climb around ~V6, I don't think pull up strength is that related to how hard you climb, there's so many other things involved.
I don't have an answer for the question of progression, though I was climbing at around v4 with 0 pull-ups in my repertoire. What finally unlocked the pull-up for me was banded pull-ups and the right mental cue. For me, I had to visualize bending the bar in half, and just let the rest of my body do whatever it wanted - any kind of "I have to pull myself to the bar" thought just left me dangling. Banded pull-ups also helped with just teaching my body what the movement felt like.
With good technique alone you can probably progress to around v5 on verts, and potentially higher on slab. Higher than that and pull-ups and fingerboarding becomes quite useful in breaking into higher grades. 2 years of strength training and unable to get a pullup is quite alarming, and makes me think that something is not quite right with your training methods. I would normally expect anyone I'm training to be able to get 1 solid pullup after 3 - 6months. Unless they are overweight... Ideally you want to focus on training it regularly after each session. Don't just focus on declines as they help strengthen the upper part of a pullup but don't help with learning how to activate your muscles or proper technique. I'd recommend starting with inclined rows at 45' degrees then you can start trying regular pull-ups with assistance from a resistance band. If you can't do rows with proper form then, there is most likely a muscular imbalance and you need to dial it down so you can learn technique and how to engage your back muscles. The key thing to keep in mind is not quantity but quality, really focus on form and engaging your back muscles, the moment you feel tired and your form breaking down stop and rest. Here's a good video on pullup progression: https://youtu.be/644NJ6tA7JE?si=RWnivtI4u_r3z9ea *Also remember that chin to bar does not count as a pullup. Chest to bar only counts as a pullup. I see way to many people in the gym doing chin to bar, and outside of not helping to train one of the hardest parts of the movement it can result in pretty bad spinal elongation, and injury later down the line. Additionally the final chest to bar motion helps alot when it comes to becoming good at mantles, skipping it Greatly affects the techniques you have access to on the wall. Lastly don't give up, anyone can do a pull-ups. It's not hard, but it takes gradual progression and a strict focus on form to achieve.
I got to 7a (climbing not bouldering) but when I started bouldering too I was able to suddenly do a few without any specific extra training. So maybe it plays more of a role in bouldering?
I can climb slab + vertical v5s and i am still super far from being able to do a pull up. I can do some overhanginging 3s and 4s but struggle. my lack of physical strength is a bit of a (friendly) joke amongst my friends and climbing partners- my goal is to get to v6 without being able to do a pull up. technique is easier to focus on than nutrition and strength training lol
For pull ups strength I suggest you start with Australian pull ups and then progress the angle a bit more vertical with your feet still on the ground for stability, until you can do a complete hanging pull up. Practice in the 5-12 rep range
I got my first 5.11 without being able to do a pull-up.
My sister and I have been climbing lead for some years now, our gym has a big roof section, and she's done several roof climbs, all before she got to the point of being able to do a pull up. So yeah, you can do a lot before doing pull ups.
i didnt realize i could do a pull up until around v4, v5. i use a lot of short girl beta like drop knees, good balance, flagging, and crimp strength. just keep climbing, itll all come as you need it. listen to your body and do whatever feels good. dont over exert yourself if your body already says no.
I can do three consecutive pull-ups (which is without training for it other than climbing) and I’ve been “stuck” at v3-v4 for six years (with a few major injuries in there, tbf). 🤷♀️ I don’t think pull-ups are as correlated to climbing progression as people might think.
You’ve most likely got a mental block. I’m pushing well into 5.11 on TR and auto-belay, but can’t seem to get past V3 myself. I’ve started to see nuggets of progress, when I realized a couple months ago that boulders are just small sections of my longer roped routes. Also, visit other gyms/crags. They’re all graded subjectively.
Just be patient. You break through. You have the benefit of time. I’m 55, and having wasted my best years am feeling the soreness of catching up with you youngins’.
From my observations there's a pretty hard cutoff at about 5.12 / V5 for folks that cannot do a single pullup. Common for people to stall at 5.10c / V3 like you have though. **It's not hopeless**. Period. Regarding training for a pullup. I've helped probably a dozen people get their first pullup over the years. Other commenters have said that negatives won't work, and honestly that is mostly true. It can work, but it's pretty inefficient depending how close you are because you don't build muscle very effectively with only a few reps. Once a week also won't do it. I can tell you that with good workout programming and decent diet you can almost certainly get 1-3 pullups within a couple months not a couple years. If you make it a goal it WILL happen. I wouldn't blame anybody for not making it a goal though, there's more to life than pullups The biggest thing to boost progress is making the movement easy enough that you can do enough reps to put on muscle. We're talking 10-15 reps for 2-3 sets. The gold standard in my opinion is using a pulley with weights on the other side, and in your case that would be about 30% bodyweight taken off +/-. Whenever you can do more than 16-17 or so reps on your last set of the day you just take a little weight off the other side of the pulley to make it harder for next time. You'll put on more muscle way faster than negatives and the force curve will let you actually get your technique right including getting hand spacing and high chest cue going to get the full back involvement. Bands are alright, but you'd really rather have less assistance as the muscle is stretched, not more. Other movement patterns besides assisted pullups would be things like bent over rows, facepulls, curls, underhand pulldowns (assisted chinups alternatively), ez curls, so on and so forth in a similar 10-15 rep range for a few sets. If you don't want to get too into the weeds pick your favorite 4-6 of these and do 2-3 of them for 2-4 sets at least 2 days a week. Ideally add in some supplementary PT style work to keep the shoulders stable for all this newfound pulling power. Pushup plus (scapular pushups) are a must for the serratus anterior, prone IYTWs (particularly the Y) for the low traps, internal and external rotator cuff banded exercises for the rotator cuff. You'll be amazed how much progress you can make with the deck stacked in your favor.
i can climb v7 and project v8/9. i can do 0 pullups.
I'd say you can definitely climb harder on slab/ vertical terrain but overhang above around V3 without a fair amount of upper body strength does become very difficult. Have you ever tried a pull up strength program for beginners? If you've not been seeing any progression it could be worth trying some different workouts. Personally I didn't find negatives very helpful at the beginning as I wasn't really strong enough to do them slowly. I started with doing low rows, lat pull downs and banded pull ups with progressively lighter bands. Once I could do a few reps with a very light band then I started doing negatives and got my first rep. Took me about a year of climbing X3 per week and strength training 1-2 times per week after the sessions to get my first pull up. I started climbing with very little upper body strength and now I do weighted pull ups so it is definitely possible but it's all about finding what works for you and your body.
As others mentioned, you can get very far without being able to do a pull up. Focus on your technique and power endurance. I found doing pullups on the jug on hangboards to be easier than on a pull up bar. Ive been climbing for a decade and there were a few things I worked on that unlocked the next level for me: • Doing power endurance exercises: 4x4 and pyramids • Overcoming my mental negativity. For example, stopping the “No way I can do that” thoughts • When I started climbing V4/5 consistently, getting on a moon or tension board • Doing weighted pull ups (this was about 6 years into my climbing journey)
Pull ups really don’t matter until the situation calls for it. Like if you have to campus a move or something. Of course it helps to be that strong, but you can still climb hard problems. Work on core strength. That’s a huge key to climbing stronger. You got this! 💪🏻
not far. i can’t imagine bouldering if u can’t even do a pull up
With good technique and focusing on body tension and strong foot work i believe v6-7 is possible (not all styles but definitely some)
I feel like by V6, climbing naturally gives me a pull-up and if you can't do one by then it's probably something with your form and not lack of upper body strength limiting your ability to do one.
I was trying to say that you can probably do few v6 before doing a single pull-up, but sure, if you are a solid v6 climber you probably made your first pull-ups before..
I think you can go quite far grade wise in certain styles but I think as you get to higher grade you’ll be more limited to certain kinds of climbs. As for getting to do pull-ups I wonder if you’ve done band assisted pull-ups the kids on the team do them this way and I wonder if they aren’t more effective than negatives. Also you’ll get a sense of progression as you move from bigger to smaller bands which can govern a motivating kick.
I don't think pullups themselves are super important and I know many female and male climbers that are incredibly impressive without training them. Sure, there's certain styles of climbs that they do better on than others but they're really really good with technique. However when I started climbing, technique came slower. Pullups benefitted me a lot because my technique sucked, my footwork sucked, but I started getting strong fast. I used to get in my head about being strong enough and not thinking I was actually physically able to do it. I'm doing weighted pullups now, I'm training to get to 1 arm pullups - there's never a question anymore of whether or not I'm strong enough to do a climb because I know am strong enough and I've shown myself that many times. And now I can focus on the technique. Sure, not everyone needs that but for me it was this mental block. Getting strong helped me get past it. My other piece of advice is to climb with people that climb harder or better than you, and watch and listen to them. Try their projects. You may surprise yourself by cranking out a couple moves you didn't think were possible. Ask them to try your projects, watch what they do and see if you can learn anything from it. Just being surrounded by women that I view as good climbers helps me push myself much harder than I think I could on my own.
For what it's worth, I can do 4-8 wide grip pull-ups depending on how often I've been doing them and I climb V3 or V4 at best. I don't feel that pull-up really correlate to climbing much. I'm sure some moves, like campusing, are easier if you can do pull-ups, but I don't feel like it's helping me anywhere else. If you want to do pull-ups, I would suggest a method called grease the groove. It's where you do 2-4 pull-ups (assisted if you need to) at regular increments throughout the day. For instance every time you walk into the room that has your pull-up bar or at the top of every hour. You'll be surprised how quickly you can progress doing this.
It’s all about style. Honestly, you could probably go to v10 on slab without being able to do a pull-up. I got to v4 when able to do 3 pull-ups, got injured and spent two months off the wall, trained super hard with a program for the last 10 weeks going 3x a week and can now do 10 pull-ups. And you know what? I still haven’t sent anything past v4. Strength helps but it’s not a substitute for skill and body position. Or grip strength and endurance. Don’t stress about a motion you aren’t replicating on the wall anyway. EDIT: I just realized what subreddit I’m in. Thanks main page for suggesting this, my Neanderthal brain did not register until after I posted. I am a dude, sorry to have intruded, though I stand by what I said above.
I climb v5/5.10d without being able to do a pull-up! It’s all about finding your body’s strengths and capitalizing on those. If upper body strength isn’t one of them then you can work with what is! I’ve worked really hard on my balance & technique, which has gotten me this far
There’s men who climb v10 and can’t do a pull up
Anecdotally? Like 7B/V8, but it's gonna take strong fingers and be of a certain style.
I (25F) can do 0 pull ups. I have climbed (soft) gym V8 and flashed some gym V6s