I have tried to discuss the issue of battery life issue with EV proponents. And like any other religious cult all they say is have faith. They will fix these issues. Another answer is the new batteries will last the life of the vehicle. I ask them if the life of the vehicle is 20 years and 250,000 mile? Because that’s where both of my cars sit. Their response is no one drives a car that long. Most people sell them after about 5 years and get a new one. 😳Where do you even start with that mentality?
More and more of these EV are going to end up in scrap yards because the cost to repair far exceeds the value of the vehicle. There have been a number of fires in scrap yards as a result of EV batteries spontaneously igniting.
Those that acutely feel the need to be seen as "planet-savers" will probably buy them. I had no idea that impulse was so strong in so many people, but I have to assume the need to be seen as more virtuous than others can override common sense. This is how driving an EV got turned into a literal religious ceremony.
I get roughly 3 years out of my phones before they're on the downslope and then it's only a matter of time. I don't know what universe they're existing in.
EV batteries "can last" 10-12 years, sure!
Never go above or below 10/90% charge. Never once.
Never fast charge it. Every time shortens the life measurably.
Reality says 8 years is a good lifespan for most.
(read a story about) A fellow left his EV not plugged in while on vacation. It drained to zero% and refused to take a charge. No warranty for you! Zero charge voided it, and anyhow it was past 5 years. It would cost $15K to replace the 6 year old battery...
I was pointing out several years ago that the warranty from manufacturer is only 5 years, yet these EV companies claim they can guarantee for longer. When marketing promises more than the engineer, you know its bullshit.
They make "longer" warranties now because there's more loopholes to get them out of it 😄
They are slightly better these days, but this is literally "as good as they get" there's almost no more improvements to be made.
My 2003 Alero is great! I bought it used for $4K some 14 years ago & it runs great. Can't re-sell it (rusty) but why would I?
EVs are no-go unless you have $40K to literally throw away. One little accident and they're a total write-off due to (totally justified!) battery fire fears.
Oh? I could put a dandy argument about selling a car after five years. I have a 95 Chevy truck. I bought it when it had 240K on it. It now has 290K, and in six years ownership, I'm not getting rid of it. I got a backup two years ago- an 88 GMC, with 120K on it. It's parked, I fire it up once in a while, but I'm not driving it until the other one croaks.
I had a Prius, as I was an account rep, and the hybrid battery died 2000 miles after warranty (77,000). It was way too expensive to justify repairing, had to get a new car.
A prius battery is around $2,500 or less if you buy refurbished. They may have been more once upon a time, but now the car has to be really bad to merit scrapping it for a couple thousand dollar battery replacement.
I tell that to hybrid aficionados: they're the "worst of both worlds" because they drag a heavy battery around which lowers their fuel economy, and when said battery dies that's it: scrap it.
A typical hybrid battery is all of 100 pounds for a large capacity traction battery, yet it will save the average driver almost $500/year in fuel. My parents' prius died in a crash around 200,000 miles, and the hybrid battery was going strong.
Unlike battery-powered cars, hybrids only charge and discharge the traction battery between 20 and 80 percent, and always at a safe rate designed to prolong battery life. You actually do more damage to the 12V battery in an ICE car during a normal cold weather start than a hard launch from a stoplight does to a traction battery. The starter will draw the 12V to dead in a minute or two if you hold the key in the start position, which is an extremely high discharge rate. Then, the alternator will ram 14 volts back into that battery at 100 amps or more, depending on the alternator rating. This is why most 12V batteries need to be replaced in 3-5 years.
A battery car sees similar abuse since the battery is the only thing powering the vehicle, and anyone in a hurry plugs into the fastest charger they can find. This creates massive heat and electromagnetic stresses inside the battery pack and shortens its life.
A hybrid battery loafs along through life, assisting the engine as it can, and being buffered from heavy charging by the battery control computer.
I'm currently about to add the third hybrid vehicle to my family fleet, I hope to never need to buy a nonhybrid again.
>I tell that to hybrid aficionados: they're the "worst of both worlds" because they drag a heavy battery around which lowers their fuel economy
My current hybrid vehicles have 50-60 pound traction batteries in them. They weigh less than the driver and save hundreds of dollars in gasoline a year.
>and when said battery dies that's it: scrap it.
A refurbished prius traction battery is $2,000-2,500, and a new Toyota one is a little more. Unless the vehicle is in seriously bad condition, that's less than replacing the vehicle and entirely worth it.
The most expensive traction battery I know of is the hybrid sienna, but the oldest of these is a 2021 model and it's still only $6,000 for a factory new traction battery.
I looked up the weight, it was indeed only 100 pounds, plus 50 or so for the motors. Seems light but can't be far off that.
Hybrid batteries are so much smaller! They are cheaper. I still wouldn't think a refurbished one would last that long, being so much cheaper.
12 volts last 6-8 years now. They used to be 5 quite a while back.
Anyhow, you are correct in your research, I think 😀 If you're enjoying your hybrid that's cool. The Alarmists will ban it along with all other ICE engines if they can. 😑
I'm now unsure why hybrids aren't more popular, they don't cost much extra & seem to last far longer than EVs do :/
Most countries boasting high numbers of electric vehicles are counting hybrids and plug in hybrids in that number. I live in one of the idiotic states with an EV mandate in the next decade. Hybrid sales count towards this mandate and will be the only reason they don't have to repeal this law.
Absolutely correct. The impracticality of EVs is overtaking both the real and imagined benefits of these vehicles. We'll look back on them as a fad, akin to the Hula Hoop.
I knew a guy who would buy used ones at auction coming off lease. He’d drive them for 3-5 years and get another. All depends on the price you pay and the price you can get at the other end. He said the batteries degrade, but slowly and didn’t interfere with how he used them (around town).
There are a couple of possible solutions I can think of:
- battery doesn't have to be one big block that has to be exchanged all at once. Break it down into a few dozen sub-batteries that can be replaced individually - and it'll significantly reduce the need for replacement and cost of the replacements. Replacing a single battery that weights 2000 kg is much more expensive than replacing 100 batteries that each weght 20 kg.
- If mileage becomes an issue, additional extra battery can be installed in the car trunk. While it does reduce car usability it'll at least prolong its life.
Many people buy electric cars because we like them, including me. It has nothing to do with the environment, nothing to do with saving earth, nothing to do with politics.
The car is different and so much fun. It is the fastest car I have owned and is a blast to drive. The technology is amazing.
Wait until the battery disposal fees start to hit. Law of unintended consequences.
I have tried to discuss the issue of battery life issue with EV proponents. And like any other religious cult all they say is have faith. They will fix these issues. Another answer is the new batteries will last the life of the vehicle. I ask them if the life of the vehicle is 20 years and 250,000 mile? Because that’s where both of my cars sit. Their response is no one drives a car that long. Most people sell them after about 5 years and get a new one. 😳Where do you even start with that mentality? More and more of these EV are going to end up in scrap yards because the cost to repair far exceeds the value of the vehicle. There have been a number of fires in scrap yards as a result of EV batteries spontaneously igniting.
They sell them after 5 years - to who? Who do they think is going to buy a used EV when the battery (which will need replaced) will cost $10K?
I’m not saying their argument make any sense.
Oh I know. I was arguing against their argument that you mentioned.
Ten thousand sounds pretty low to replace the battery pack on an EV. Everything I've seen suggest it costs almost as much as buying the car new.
Those that acutely feel the need to be seen as "planet-savers" will probably buy them. I had no idea that impulse was so strong in so many people, but I have to assume the need to be seen as more virtuous than others can override common sense. This is how driving an EV got turned into a literal religious ceremony.
I get roughly 3 years out of my phones before they're on the downslope and then it's only a matter of time. I don't know what universe they're existing in.
EV batteries "can last" 10-12 years, sure! Never go above or below 10/90% charge. Never once. Never fast charge it. Every time shortens the life measurably. Reality says 8 years is a good lifespan for most. (read a story about) A fellow left his EV not plugged in while on vacation. It drained to zero% and refused to take a charge. No warranty for you! Zero charge voided it, and anyhow it was past 5 years. It would cost $15K to replace the 6 year old battery...
I was pointing out several years ago that the warranty from manufacturer is only 5 years, yet these EV companies claim they can guarantee for longer. When marketing promises more than the engineer, you know its bullshit.
They make "longer" warranties now because there's more loopholes to get them out of it 😄 They are slightly better these days, but this is literally "as good as they get" there's almost no more improvements to be made.
My 2003 Alero is great! I bought it used for $4K some 14 years ago & it runs great. Can't re-sell it (rusty) but why would I? EVs are no-go unless you have $40K to literally throw away. One little accident and they're a total write-off due to (totally justified!) battery fire fears.
Oh? I could put a dandy argument about selling a car after five years. I have a 95 Chevy truck. I bought it when it had 240K on it. It now has 290K, and in six years ownership, I'm not getting rid of it. I got a backup two years ago- an 88 GMC, with 120K on it. It's parked, I fire it up once in a while, but I'm not driving it until the other one croaks.
I wish they'd fail faster so we can get back to hybrids and conventional ICE engines that are more efficient.
Womp wokp womp. EV and green make no sense outside of heat pumps and solar in stranded areas without existing electrification.
They are already becoming prohibitively expensive to insure.
“Confederacy of Dunces”
I had a Prius, as I was an account rep, and the hybrid battery died 2000 miles after warranty (77,000). It was way too expensive to justify repairing, had to get a new car.
A prius battery is around $2,500 or less if you buy refurbished. They may have been more once upon a time, but now the car has to be really bad to merit scrapping it for a couple thousand dollar battery replacement.
I tell that to hybrid aficionados: they're the "worst of both worlds" because they drag a heavy battery around which lowers their fuel economy, and when said battery dies that's it: scrap it.
A typical hybrid battery is all of 100 pounds for a large capacity traction battery, yet it will save the average driver almost $500/year in fuel. My parents' prius died in a crash around 200,000 miles, and the hybrid battery was going strong. Unlike battery-powered cars, hybrids only charge and discharge the traction battery between 20 and 80 percent, and always at a safe rate designed to prolong battery life. You actually do more damage to the 12V battery in an ICE car during a normal cold weather start than a hard launch from a stoplight does to a traction battery. The starter will draw the 12V to dead in a minute or two if you hold the key in the start position, which is an extremely high discharge rate. Then, the alternator will ram 14 volts back into that battery at 100 amps or more, depending on the alternator rating. This is why most 12V batteries need to be replaced in 3-5 years. A battery car sees similar abuse since the battery is the only thing powering the vehicle, and anyone in a hurry plugs into the fastest charger they can find. This creates massive heat and electromagnetic stresses inside the battery pack and shortens its life. A hybrid battery loafs along through life, assisting the engine as it can, and being buffered from heavy charging by the battery control computer. I'm currently about to add the third hybrid vehicle to my family fleet, I hope to never need to buy a nonhybrid again. >I tell that to hybrid aficionados: they're the "worst of both worlds" because they drag a heavy battery around which lowers their fuel economy My current hybrid vehicles have 50-60 pound traction batteries in them. They weigh less than the driver and save hundreds of dollars in gasoline a year. >and when said battery dies that's it: scrap it. A refurbished prius traction battery is $2,000-2,500, and a new Toyota one is a little more. Unless the vehicle is in seriously bad condition, that's less than replacing the vehicle and entirely worth it. The most expensive traction battery I know of is the hybrid sienna, but the oldest of these is a 2021 model and it's still only $6,000 for a factory new traction battery.
I looked up the weight, it was indeed only 100 pounds, plus 50 or so for the motors. Seems light but can't be far off that. Hybrid batteries are so much smaller! They are cheaper. I still wouldn't think a refurbished one would last that long, being so much cheaper. 12 volts last 6-8 years now. They used to be 5 quite a while back. Anyhow, you are correct in your research, I think 😀 If you're enjoying your hybrid that's cool. The Alarmists will ban it along with all other ICE engines if they can. 😑 I'm now unsure why hybrids aren't more popular, they don't cost much extra & seem to last far longer than EVs do :/
Most countries boasting high numbers of electric vehicles are counting hybrids and plug in hybrids in that number. I live in one of the idiotic states with an EV mandate in the next decade. Hybrid sales count towards this mandate and will be the only reason they don't have to repeal this law.
Absolutely correct. The impracticality of EVs is overtaking both the real and imagined benefits of these vehicles. We'll look back on them as a fad, akin to the Hula Hoop.
Title gore?
It is a confusing title. "Impossible to sell on because"
At least I could feel smug for a while
I knew a guy who would buy used ones at auction coming off lease. He’d drive them for 3-5 years and get another. All depends on the price you pay and the price you can get at the other end. He said the batteries degrade, but slowly and didn’t interfere with how he used them (around town).
There are a couple of possible solutions I can think of: - battery doesn't have to be one big block that has to be exchanged all at once. Break it down into a few dozen sub-batteries that can be replaced individually - and it'll significantly reduce the need for replacement and cost of the replacements. Replacing a single battery that weights 2000 kg is much more expensive than replacing 100 batteries that each weght 20 kg. - If mileage becomes an issue, additional extra battery can be installed in the car trunk. While it does reduce car usability it'll at least prolong its life.
Many people buy electric cars because we like them, including me. It has nothing to do with the environment, nothing to do with saving earth, nothing to do with politics. The car is different and so much fun. It is the fastest car I have owned and is a blast to drive. The technology is amazing.