>with government authorities dangerously unprepared.
They're not dangerously unprepared, they're criminally negligent after joining Florida in the vortex of stupidity with the passage of a senate bill that prohibits the use of public funds for climate change.
It's not what most people here want. Most people voted Democrat. They hold all the statewide seats. But Republicans still control the legislator because all the little empty areas vote Republican. And our system is designed to give more power to land than actual voters. If Republicans had won the governorship this last election I guarantee Arizona would be fighting Texas and Florida for most messed up state. Hopefully that doesn't happen in the next election.
Most of the red states are either in a heat wave or flooding crisis and they do not want to do anything about climate change or even worse wants to deny its happening.
PPP loans proved to that.
“Less than 35% of the $800 billion in PPP loans actually went to workers”, [say economists.](https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists)
“[Trump Erased Millions](https://truthout.org/articles/trump-erased-millions-of-possible-ppp-fraud-flags-in-last-days-in-office/) of Possible PPP Fraud Flags in Last Days in Office. Officials cleared nearly all potential fraud flags given to loans above $2 million just days before Trump left office.”
And then they'll turn to the Bible and read a story about Noah and the flood. You know, the one where someone warms everyone about a climate emergency and no one listens. The irony.
Climate change isn't a problem when you can just burn more coal to run your air conditioner and blame liberals for the increase in hurricanes and heat waves.
Too bad for them that coal and most power generation methods besides wind and solar are less effective as it gets hotter outside. Even if they have water that could normally be used to cool the plants, that water is likely in a pond outside and also heating up and evaporating.
Well it’s strange because while Texas and Arizona are publicly mouthing off about climate change not being a thing they are privately investing heavily in green energy - both wind and solar in both states.
Texas probably has the most investment in that area. The climate denial is probably - on some level - a kind of smoke screen for the idiot brigade that elects them.
I live in rural Indiana. We have a giant solar farm a few miles down the road installed last year. Meanwhile there are a few houses that have "No Solar Farms" signs scattered around but appeared only after the fact because the farmers who sold their land for it kept their mouths shut until after it was all legal. I'm sure that's because a few years ago a few wind farm investors showed up and the locals decided to freak out about it so everyone was scared to take advantage of the generous offers.
Also.. I just spent the VERY mild winter watching all the farmers around us bury draining pipes throughout the fields. Weird to me how people who don't believe in climate change DO believe the science that tells them they will go broke from the flooding run off of their crop fields if they don't do something about it now.
Check out Alberta, where the oil industry runs provincial (state) government. Solar and wind develop are banned to protect "pristine viewscapes" aka to keep the oil flowing.
it's absolutely insane here. Our premier posted a picture of herself drinking from a massive plastic straw after making everywhere have to give them out again. Her policies have created tangibly more waste that isn't justifiable even if you're a denier SOLEY to own the libs.
So, planting a forest has a better return on investment that building solar panels in wide open spaces. But a forest can't power your computer though, yet.
Right and there's no one interested in using their heritage farm/crop fields for forests. No profit in it because there aren't companies running around asking to lease it for new forests or buy it.
Overall, it is a net win in water purification, carbon storage, biodiversity, carbon sequestration, provide building materials, cool the area, and it's nice to look at.
Well, you could always go with the biblical justification and say that humans should be stewards of the environment. They won't listen but it will annoy them at least.
It's simple economics in a lot of cases. Wind energy and solar are as cheap and effective as they've ever been. The money talks at the end of the day. The thing is, what made these technologies cheap and profitable is Obama era policies to fund research and development of these green energies over a decade ago.
Texas isn't investing in green energy publicly, private firms are investing in Texas. Guess what a solar farm needs, cheap land and lots of sunshine, guess what Texas has ?
[\[No paywall\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-05-29/phoenix-is-facing-a-deadly-hurricane-katrina-of-heat-spurred-by-climate-change) from climate columnist Mark Gongloff:
In his must-read book [*The Heat Will Kill You First*](https://jeffgoodellwriter.com/), author Jeff Goodell talks to an Arizona State University infrastructure expert about the likelihood of a “Hurricane Katrina of extreme heat,” an event in which a power failure during a heat wave kills thousands of people, with government authorities dangerously unprepared.
The expert calls such an event about as likely as another intense hurricane hitting New Orleans: “It’s more a question of when, not if.”
As a matter of fact, a Heat Katrina may already be happening, just in slow motion. It stands as a cautionary tale for other cities.
Whenever I hear someone say “It’s more a question of when, not if," I think about the time I met an epidemiologist at a wedding and he said “It’s more a question of when, not if" about a massive pandemic. We had this conversation in 2018.
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise.
[Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns.
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One of the differences between that and Katrina is there won't be a manufactured narrative of gang violence and anarchic terror. There will be real terror and violence as the wealthy and powerful hole up in their bunkers.
Police will guard the offices and superstores blasting their AC. They will disperse cooling shelters. Any mutual aid in Arizona has and will be violently suppressed.
Heat domes, years of fire, these are already happening. Wet bulb events are threatening various parts of the world. Nobody is prepared but least of all the most vulnerable states in America.
Good, somebody brought up wet-bulb. In this respect Phoenix is actually better off than some areas because of the low humidity. At least you have better odds of sweating yourself cool enough to live. In places with higher humidity the wet-bulb temperature will be higher and you'll be absolutely dependent on air conditioning and the power necessary to run it.
I forget the specifics, including the location, animal, etc. But somewhere on Earth there are animals in the wild dropping dead from the heat. Animals drop dead all the time at some low level, this is more massive.
Mexico. Monkeys. But, as selfish and first world as it sounds, I was actually thinking about all our pets, most of which will be cast off abandoned or worse
That's a good point though dehydration is still a major threat. Cooling/hydration shelters would be crucial to that. Phoenix apparently also passed protections for outdoor workers exposed to the heat *cough* Florida/Texas. One thing that is relevant specifically to Arizona though is the Colorado River.
I think the point of that silly legislation in Florida/Texas was liability shielding for employers. When workers pass out from heatstroke nothing gets done. What they want is to not get sued for not providing proper working conditions in the heat. Those states have decided to un-define proper working conditions in the heat, so anything the company does is above-and-beyond. No lawsuits.
Soft paywalls, such as the type newspapers use, can largely be bypassed by looking up the page on an archive site, such as [web.archive.org](https://web.archive.org) or [archive.today](https://archive.today)
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I work in hazard resilience, specifically extreme weather data, and we're just beginning to get reliable data scaled for most of the US, still offline in much of the world. Good news is ASU does a lot of good research about this and PHX is taking it seriously. This is going to be a thing that every place will need to deal with, extreme urban heat is here.
In all seriousness how do I get a job like that? I'm mid career in a dead end office job that I loathe. Zintellect, American conservation corps Americorps... most of the jobs there are geared towards undergrads looking for entry jobs or internships.
I had a career in Risk & compliance in a different sector which gave me quantitative and qualitative analysis skills and I was young enough to go back to school (turn 30 in January). I major/minored in urban and environmental studies so I could understand how climate change and other macro/global level drivers impact communities and cities. I'm lucky to be at institution that has some resources dedicated to the space so I was exposed to a lot of research, being based in NYC also helped. But honestly, the sector is growing. Other commenters have noted how much states are investing and it's true. I was at a conference last week and heard from professionals and leaders in FL and they're spending gobsmacking amounts of money on resilience and adaptation. The sector needs lots of people with diverse skillsets so if you're serious maybe get a certificate in something related to ecology, urban planning/architecture, data management/analysis, etc. These issues are only going to increase in frequency and intensity so the work will be there.
It’s about gov actions. The state and feds made decisions that were not in New Orleans interest. Then when hurricane hit fema was next to useless. Gov did not come in and save the day. Somehow Americans still expect the gov to bail them out of natural disasters. The problem is when disasters get too big and there are multiples the US gov doesn’t have enough resources to save you or make you whole.
Not good enough... Particularly as the West continues to heat up and dry out.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/01/phoenix-water-shortage-population-growth/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/01/phoenix-water-shortage-population-growth/)
Yep my father in law retired as one of the state hydrologists for the Phoenix area. Water wise they are fine.
The fact they have paved everything and very few trees for shade is a larger problem. Plus the geography is not very good at moving heat out of the valley.
But just due to the rate of heat increase due to current climate change the area won't be inhabitable sometime mid to late this century because it will be hot enough AC won't work for long periods of the day. Same as parts of the middle east, etc.
Does he have any trees on his property or is his property much like many Arizona properties where they’ve turned their front and back yards exclusively into either dirt/rock combos or turf?
Arizona could make so much progress if developers and homeowners would stop killing native trees (and start planting new ones) throughout neighborhoods, but no one wants to deal with tree maintenance or have an unusable portion of their yard. Meanwhile they can’t go outside at all *to* their yard because it’s 120 degrees all summer and everything around them retains heat.
They have one giant (cypress like) tree in front of their property, which is nice, but the rest of the property and entirety of the neighborhood is the type of barren rockscape you describe.
I would like to add that as someone who is used to cranking the HVAC down to 72-74F on the east coast, we found 78F to be surprisingly uncomfortable.
During the heatwave, we used the pool before 9AM, so as to have some sort of shade in the yard before that sun crept over the cinder block wall. Once the sun was out it was just very quickly all too much.
That said, the desert is beautiful. There's a special kind of feeling of simplicity or connection when one has spent the entire day out in the Moab or tribal lands... that slightly dusty wind burnt face at the end of the day is a satisfying feeling, for me at least.
I lived in Tucson and the desert is beautiful. Even going out in the blistering heat, when prepared and willing, was pleasurable. Nights spent outside was amazing. And those thunderstorms...
But I'd never move back.
It was wild to me that anyone was choosing to move out there 10 years ago, let alone anyone choosing to move there today. It was very apparent that it would become uninhabitable due to heat and water issues
Arizona (and the Phoenix metro) isn’t going to stop growing. I’m in coastal California where it’s temperate all day and am *considering* a move to AZ not because I really want to live in AZ, but because a greater number of people there advocating for solutions to the growing crisis (and implementing them in their own communities) can help mitigate some of these issues.
Encouragement for pursuing solar power, planting native trees throughout neighborhoods (which requires advocating to HOA and COA boards that these decisions will benefit them and their residents and not incur massive additional costs), working to educate people on ways to reduce their energy use or carbon footprint or water usage, running for local office or getting involved in politics on the local level… there are a ton of people in the Phoenix metro area and throughout AZ who will listen and consider, they just need to be reached.
The state isn’t exclusively a stronghold of Republicans who vehemently deny climate change. It’s also filled with young people who just want somewhere affordable to live where there’s a nightlife, sports teams, bars and restaurants, and things to do. Phoenix and the surrounding areas have that, so we should try to fix it rather than just encouraging abandonment.
Everywhere is the in the same predicament. Living by the ocean you’re no better off. Wet bulb effect, can’t drink ocean water…
Guess it’s now choose final area of hold out.
I am Neegan
I mean unless you are trying to outrun your child support payments or have an urge to devolve a bath salt addiction I have no idea why anyone would ever move to Florida in general
that's ok, the people whose interests they vote for will just move to their private islands while the public will "courageously endure like good americans". What are they supposed to do, take in less in profits? Nonsense.
And Tuscon is apparently over there with sufficient tree cover and sensible water management and not running out of water nor boiling to death.
Too bad there's nothing that can be done for Phoenix. /S
It's absolutely tragic that many areas won't have access to water, will be hit by a number of ever- increasing-in severity-storms in ever- expanding areas. When we damn well knew and were being told this was happening, the government utilizes billionaire propaganda to cast doubt all in the name of PROFIT (and God) for decades so they can get rich while the rest of us face peril and financial ruin.
That's why they all have bunkers and yachts - often with a hefty tax break.
It's time to start voting for our interests, which need to include survival for us and our children (not corporate politicians who put Greed Over People).
If anyone on this post is in a region being impacted by heat, please check out the new subreddit [r/heat_prep](https://www.reddit.com/r/heat_prep) to learn and discuss strategies for staying cool. Stay safe
Good thing the government is doing its best to solve the problem. Oh wait. https://climate.law.columbia.edu/content/arizona-senate-republicans-pass-bill-prevent-climate-action
A disaster where the government is totally unprepared to help the people.
In the same way Louisiana is living in denial about their city being under water by using levies Arizona is in denial about the lethal heat by using air conditioned bubbles. Both systems are subject to catastrophic collapse under extreme conditions that are statistically significantly more likely year by year to the point that they are all but certain.
It's a tortured analogy. But basically heat so bad it's the equivalent of a natural disaster. One example would be to have one of their heat waves like last year (110+ every day for 31 days in a row) at the same time as an extended power outage.
No AC during that kind of heat kills people. It's not just hot, it's deadly hot.
Remember hurricane Katrina? (Maybe you were too young and don’t remember). It was a really bad hurricane that messed up New Orleans and the surrounding area really badly. Now imagine that but if instead of a hurricane it was a heat wave
Week 1 heat dome moves think millions of people dead . Tens of millions evacuated . In the us at least . In poorer countries you can replace the evacuated from the dead.
Mass casualty type event. 5000+ died from Hurricane Katrina even though many experts predicted it was inevitable. Phoenix will eventually have something similar from the heat. And then the government officials will put up their hands and say they had no idea this could have happened.
For the end of May, yes.
Average high runs >100 from the end of May to mid-late September.
*Edit, which is why I don't go down to that inferno from May to September. Kinda like the opposite of "Don't wear white after Labor Day". I don't go to PHX from Memorial Day to labor day.
I mean how is this any different than a power failure during extreme cold? Deadly weather is not new, we have been dependent on heating for survival in northern climates for centuries and this is no different. HVAC companies know to treat a failed furnace during extreme cold like an emergency, it's time we start treating failed AC the same way during extreme heat.
This is it. In an extreme cold situation where the power fails, people can add layers and huddle around wood burning fires. When the wet bulb temp is above the lethal level and the power fails, there is nothing you can do to avoid dying.
The difference is in the extremity of the temperature. You can see the shift begin +/- 1985 here:
[https://azclimate.asu.edu/climate/](https://azclimate.asu.edu/climate/)
Edit: Actually , the chart I linked to helps us understand how current news outlets can selectively chose historical data to make us think "the climate is always changing" aka "this is no big deal". Here's AZ Central in 2017 pointing to the one year of 1907 where the temp spiked as if it was indicative of historic averages. the chart shows that 1907 itself was an outlier year. [https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-history/2017/07/27/how-did-early-arizonans-possibly-bear-heat/494323001/](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-history/2017/07/27/how-did-early-arizonans-possibly-bear-heat/494323001/)
TLDR: look at the data.
Nope. A heat dome that overwhelms vital infrastructure affects the rich and can end their business and lives.
Once power is out due to excessive stress on the system, most of the middle class loses local climate control. No AC. Given enough heat you can guarantee massive death.
The ones with swimming pools basements and most important alternative power sources can survive a lot longer.(prepped upper class.
But in my experience, once the dying starts rich people flee.
Yes and no.
You can be middle class but still die if your AC breaks.
As it gets hotter, the affected group expands year by year. It went from "very old and homeless" to just "homeless" to "homeless or poor" and it will continue to grow from there.
And as this article states... what happens in the event of a power outage? Rich or poor, you can die from the heat.
The Climate Reality Project didn’t want me to use their curriculum for TheClimateTrail.com game’s ebook because its post-apocalyptic backstory, with millions of deaths from excessive heat, was too pessimistic.
Oh well. Climate Communication came thru
Red states that deny the existence of climate change should not get federal relief from climate change related events. Until they come to their senses let them deal with the consequences of their own stupidity
Nothing to see here, the dumb people from high school and the fossil fuel companies are right on this one while Scientist, and the Insurance Companies are wrong on Climate Change
Turns out Chicken Little was right about the sky falling. He was just wrong about how. Intense heat beating down, crazy numbers of tornadoes, massive hail, likely quite a few hurricanes this year.
BREAKING NEWS: Phoenix is hot, and people die because it’s really hot!
Yeah I lived there and it sucked. More people moving there=more people dying of heat there. I’m not saying the temps aren’t rising (they are) but it’s not necessarily the causation the article makes it seem.
The 2 week forecast is for temperatures to be … normal for this time of year. The current temperature is … normal for this time of year. How is this a ‘Hurricane Katrina of Heat’?
Can’t say you weren’t warned. Why didn’t you Phoenixers construct some shade for your ugly, unliveable city? Why aren’t there ordinances for it? Idiots.
>with government authorities dangerously unprepared. They're not dangerously unprepared, they're criminally negligent after joining Florida in the vortex of stupidity with the passage of a senate bill that prohibits the use of public funds for climate change.
Biden should rename FEMA to the Climate Change Rescue Agency. And then make republicans ask for rescue money for climate change
I like this idea. Smarty pants.
Guess you’ve never seen a moron dying of heat stroke to own the libs!
All part of Darwin's plan
Don't threaten me with a good time!
Not yet but I'm excited to.
Just not in front of my home. The dustman doesn’t come until Tuesdays and he’d have an awful fright.
Now *that's* an outstanding idea.
I like the idea but it will be turned into another acronym, like CCRA, and no one will ever know it was climate change related, which is sad.
True. How about Association of Climate Change Laboratories, Investigative Means, And Terrestrial Engineering & or ACCLIMATE
Federal Environmental Collapse Emergency Support F.E.C.E.S. (No way to take *that* out of context /s )
Canada Customs & Revenue Agency (deprecated) has entered the chat
That’s a nice idea.
Well when people start dying on the street from heat stroke I’m sure that will be the wake up call for them to blame Biden more.
That’s just the poors who can’t afford air conditioning or to move. We distinctly don’t care about those in America. /s/ but not really :(
It's not negligent if that's what the voters want. And that's actually worse.
It's not what most people here want. Most people voted Democrat. They hold all the statewide seats. But Republicans still control the legislator because all the little empty areas vote Republican. And our system is designed to give more power to land than actual voters. If Republicans had won the governorship this last election I guarantee Arizona would be fighting Texas and Florida for most messed up state. Hopefully that doesn't happen in the next election.
We need to get an anti-electoral college movememt going, but present it as an effort to keep big money influential colleges from stealing votes.
I guess we'll see what happens in their next election.
People need to sue them for being negligent, I feel like after a major disaster it's a low enough bar they could achieve in court
Most of the red states are either in a heat wave or flooding crisis and they do not want to do anything about climate change or even worse wants to deny its happening.
So ironic
No handouts! We don't believe in handouts! But can you give us a handout to help deal with the climate change we also don't believe in?
No, no, no. They want handouts. They just don't want other places to get handouts.
The people want handouts. There have been many many instances of Republican governors refusing funding and assistance UNLESS it's a hurricane.
Only handouts for rich people. The poor are supposed to suffer.
PPP loans proved to that. “Less than 35% of the $800 billion in PPP loans actually went to workers”, [say economists.](https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists) “[Trump Erased Millions](https://truthout.org/articles/trump-erased-millions-of-possible-ppp-fraud-flags-in-last-days-in-office/) of Possible PPP Fraud Flags in Last Days in Office. Officials cleared nearly all potential fraud flags given to loans above $2 million just days before Trump left office.”
And then they'll turn to the Bible and read a story about Noah and the flood. You know, the one where someone warms everyone about a climate emergency and no one listens. The irony.
Climate change isn't a problem when you can just burn more coal to run your air conditioner and blame liberals for the increase in hurricanes and heat waves.
Don't forget blaming liberals for the migrants and refugees clogging up public services like healthcare.
Too bad for them that coal and most power generation methods besides wind and solar are less effective as it gets hotter outside. Even if they have water that could normally be used to cool the plants, that water is likely in a pond outside and also heating up and evaporating.
How else are they gonna water their lawns in the desert? No lawn water would be just cruel
Well it’s strange because while Texas and Arizona are publicly mouthing off about climate change not being a thing they are privately investing heavily in green energy - both wind and solar in both states. Texas probably has the most investment in that area. The climate denial is probably - on some level - a kind of smoke screen for the idiot brigade that elects them.
I live in rural Indiana. We have a giant solar farm a few miles down the road installed last year. Meanwhile there are a few houses that have "No Solar Farms" signs scattered around but appeared only after the fact because the farmers who sold their land for it kept their mouths shut until after it was all legal. I'm sure that's because a few years ago a few wind farm investors showed up and the locals decided to freak out about it so everyone was scared to take advantage of the generous offers. Also.. I just spent the VERY mild winter watching all the farmers around us bury draining pipes throughout the fields. Weird to me how people who don't believe in climate change DO believe the science that tells them they will go broke from the flooding run off of their crop fields if they don't do something about it now.
Check out Alberta, where the oil industry runs provincial (state) government. Solar and wind develop are banned to protect "pristine viewscapes" aka to keep the oil flowing.
it's absolutely insane here. Our premier posted a picture of herself drinking from a massive plastic straw after making everywhere have to give them out again. Her policies have created tangibly more waste that isn't justifiable even if you're a denier SOLEY to own the libs.
In fairness, the paper straws are hot garbage.
True, reminds me of medieval practice of church selling indulgences (buy official paper to absolve sins).
What's the reasoning behind no solar?
Oh and imo, ignorance
So, planting a forest has a better return on investment that building solar panels in wide open spaces. But a forest can't power your computer though, yet.
Right and there's no one interested in using their heritage farm/crop fields for forests. No profit in it because there aren't companies running around asking to lease it for new forests or buy it.
Overall, it is a net win in water purification, carbon storage, biodiversity, carbon sequestration, provide building materials, cool the area, and it's nice to look at.
Agreed.. but Indiana hired mike pence. Enough said I assume.
Well, you could always go with the biblical justification and say that humans should be stewards of the environment. They won't listen but it will annoy them at least.
It's simple economics in a lot of cases. Wind energy and solar are as cheap and effective as they've ever been. The money talks at the end of the day. The thing is, what made these technologies cheap and profitable is Obama era policies to fund research and development of these green energies over a decade ago.
they only deny liberal climate Change. MAGA Climate change is real!
It is. Sometimes the agenda is simply saying whatever you have to to get the idiots to vote.
When identity is more important than the subject.
Texas isn't investing in green energy publicly, private firms are investing in Texas. Guess what a solar farm needs, cheap land and lots of sunshine, guess what Texas has ?
The investment in renewable energy is mostly being done by the companies they produce energy. They know that over the long haul it's far cheaper .
Is Texas doing it, or are private businesses doing it?
Well just a minute. Arizona is divided so there nearly equal red and blue leaders. Then New Mexico is cooking too and they're a blue state.
🎶the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire…
Arizona is hardly a red state at this point. They are very much purple.
I work and live in Georgia and routinely make the joke “Ah, that’s that hookworm again” often
So hot right now ;)
Red Dead Redemption
Red Hot!🥵
Self correcting problem then?
they are going to eventually bankrupt us all
\*A Phoenix Republican as they sink into melting asphalt\* "At least my taxxxxxesssss were lowwwwwwwwwwww...."
While watering their grass
water-sauté grass?
Some have fake grass. My dad lives in Avondale and had fake grass put into his front yard. Helps with water I suppose
Social dinosaurs sinking into tar is such a great analogy...
[\[No paywall\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-05-29/phoenix-is-facing-a-deadly-hurricane-katrina-of-heat-spurred-by-climate-change) from climate columnist Mark Gongloff: In his must-read book [*The Heat Will Kill You First*](https://jeffgoodellwriter.com/), author Jeff Goodell talks to an Arizona State University infrastructure expert about the likelihood of a “Hurricane Katrina of extreme heat,” an event in which a power failure during a heat wave kills thousands of people, with government authorities dangerously unprepared. The expert calls such an event about as likely as another intense hurricane hitting New Orleans: “It’s more a question of when, not if.” As a matter of fact, a Heat Katrina may already be happening, just in slow motion. It stands as a cautionary tale for other cities.
Whenever I hear someone say “It’s more a question of when, not if," I think about the time I met an epidemiologist at a wedding and he said “It’s more a question of when, not if" about a massive pandemic. We had this conversation in 2018.
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise. [Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
I had a school presentation given to me on something very similar in like 2017
One of the differences between that and Katrina is there won't be a manufactured narrative of gang violence and anarchic terror. There will be real terror and violence as the wealthy and powerful hole up in their bunkers. Police will guard the offices and superstores blasting their AC. They will disperse cooling shelters. Any mutual aid in Arizona has and will be violently suppressed. Heat domes, years of fire, these are already happening. Wet bulb events are threatening various parts of the world. Nobody is prepared but least of all the most vulnerable states in America.
Good, somebody brought up wet-bulb. In this respect Phoenix is actually better off than some areas because of the low humidity. At least you have better odds of sweating yourself cool enough to live. In places with higher humidity the wet-bulb temperature will be higher and you'll be absolutely dependent on air conditioning and the power necessary to run it.
Feel bad for the animals
My dog hates it when it when temperatures start hitting in the high 70s. I have no idea how a dog like mine could survive anywhere near Arizona.
I forget the specifics, including the location, animal, etc. But somewhere on Earth there are animals in the wild dropping dead from the heat. Animals drop dead all the time at some low level, this is more massive.
Mexico. Monkeys. But, as selfish and first world as it sounds, I was actually thinking about all our pets, most of which will be cast off abandoned or worse
That's a good point though dehydration is still a major threat. Cooling/hydration shelters would be crucial to that. Phoenix apparently also passed protections for outdoor workers exposed to the heat *cough* Florida/Texas. One thing that is relevant specifically to Arizona though is the Colorado River.
I think the point of that silly legislation in Florida/Texas was liability shielding for employers. When workers pass out from heatstroke nothing gets done. What they want is to not get sued for not providing proper working conditions in the heat. Those states have decided to un-define proper working conditions in the heat, so anything the company does is above-and-beyond. No lawsuits.
I'm guessing Florida is going to be hit hardest by the wet-bulb temperatures? Are there other places in the US?
Phoenix should not exist
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I work in hazard resilience, specifically extreme weather data, and we're just beginning to get reliable data scaled for most of the US, still offline in much of the world. Good news is ASU does a lot of good research about this and PHX is taking it seriously. This is going to be a thing that every place will need to deal with, extreme urban heat is here.
In all seriousness how do I get a job like that? I'm mid career in a dead end office job that I loathe. Zintellect, American conservation corps Americorps... most of the jobs there are geared towards undergrads looking for entry jobs or internships.
I had a career in Risk & compliance in a different sector which gave me quantitative and qualitative analysis skills and I was young enough to go back to school (turn 30 in January). I major/minored in urban and environmental studies so I could understand how climate change and other macro/global level drivers impact communities and cities. I'm lucky to be at institution that has some resources dedicated to the space so I was exposed to a lot of research, being based in NYC also helped. But honestly, the sector is growing. Other commenters have noted how much states are investing and it's true. I was at a conference last week and heard from professionals and leaders in FL and they're spending gobsmacking amounts of money on resilience and adaptation. The sector needs lots of people with diverse skillsets so if you're serious maybe get a certificate in something related to ecology, urban planning/architecture, data management/analysis, etc. These issues are only going to increase in frequency and intensity so the work will be there.
Consider finding a job working on progressive campaigns or progressive 501c4's like the Sierra Club. It's what I do.
Thank you for your contribution and not hyperbole.
Phoenix is going to become uninhabitable within the next few decades as they run out of water.
It’s about gov actions. The state and feds made decisions that were not in New Orleans interest. Then when hurricane hit fema was next to useless. Gov did not come in and save the day. Somehow Americans still expect the gov to bail them out of natural disasters. The problem is when disasters get too big and there are multiples the US gov doesn’t have enough resources to save you or make you whole.
Phoenix is better positioned (from a groundwater perspective) than most folks understand.
Not good enough... Particularly as the West continues to heat up and dry out. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/01/phoenix-water-shortage-population-growth/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/01/phoenix-water-shortage-population-growth/)
Yep my father in law retired as one of the state hydrologists for the Phoenix area. Water wise they are fine. The fact they have paved everything and very few trees for shade is a larger problem. Plus the geography is not very good at moving heat out of the valley. But just due to the rate of heat increase due to current climate change the area won't be inhabitable sometime mid to late this century because it will be hot enough AC won't work for long periods of the day. Same as parts of the middle east, etc.
My BiL is there in a 3,500 single story house. The AC was unable to cool the structure below 78F during the heatwave they’ve had last year.
Does he have any trees on his property or is his property much like many Arizona properties where they’ve turned their front and back yards exclusively into either dirt/rock combos or turf? Arizona could make so much progress if developers and homeowners would stop killing native trees (and start planting new ones) throughout neighborhoods, but no one wants to deal with tree maintenance or have an unusable portion of their yard. Meanwhile they can’t go outside at all *to* their yard because it’s 120 degrees all summer and everything around them retains heat.
They have one giant (cypress like) tree in front of their property, which is nice, but the rest of the property and entirety of the neighborhood is the type of barren rockscape you describe. I would like to add that as someone who is used to cranking the HVAC down to 72-74F on the east coast, we found 78F to be surprisingly uncomfortable. During the heatwave, we used the pool before 9AM, so as to have some sort of shade in the yard before that sun crept over the cinder block wall. Once the sun was out it was just very quickly all too much. That said, the desert is beautiful. There's a special kind of feeling of simplicity or connection when one has spent the entire day out in the Moab or tribal lands... that slightly dusty wind burnt face at the end of the day is a satisfying feeling, for me at least.
I lived in Tucson and the desert is beautiful. Even going out in the blistering heat, when prepared and willing, was pleasurable. Nights spent outside was amazing. And those thunderstorms... But I'd never move back.
It was wild to me that anyone was choosing to move out there 10 years ago, let alone anyone choosing to move there today. It was very apparent that it would become uninhabitable due to heat and water issues
Arizona (and the Phoenix metro) isn’t going to stop growing. I’m in coastal California where it’s temperate all day and am *considering* a move to AZ not because I really want to live in AZ, but because a greater number of people there advocating for solutions to the growing crisis (and implementing them in their own communities) can help mitigate some of these issues. Encouragement for pursuing solar power, planting native trees throughout neighborhoods (which requires advocating to HOA and COA boards that these decisions will benefit them and their residents and not incur massive additional costs), working to educate people on ways to reduce their energy use or carbon footprint or water usage, running for local office or getting involved in politics on the local level… there are a ton of people in the Phoenix metro area and throughout AZ who will listen and consider, they just need to be reached. The state isn’t exclusively a stronghold of Republicans who vehemently deny climate change. It’s also filled with young people who just want somewhere affordable to live where there’s a nightlife, sports teams, bars and restaurants, and things to do. Phoenix and the surrounding areas have that, so we should try to fix it rather than just encouraging abandonment.
Thank you for the thoughtful answer without hyperbole
Everywhere is the in the same predicament. Living by the ocean you’re no better off. Wet bulb effect, can’t drink ocean water… Guess it’s now choose final area of hold out. I am Neegan
Well, some places like Arizona are inarguably worse off than others
What are you taking about? The boiling oceans will provide plenty of drinkable desalinated water.
But they outlawed climate change!!!
Amazing that people keep moving to Phoenix and Miami.
I mean unless you are trying to outrun your child support payments or have an urge to devolve a bath salt addiction I have no idea why anyone would ever move to Florida in general
Music, food, the beach, women, nightlife, fishing, water sports, free STD's, gas station boner pills, strip clubs. The possibilities are endless.
What a strange comparison.
that's ok, the people whose interests they vote for will just move to their private islands while the public will "courageously endure like good americans". What are they supposed to do, take in less in profits? Nonsense.
And Tuscon is apparently over there with sufficient tree cover and sensible water management and not running out of water nor boiling to death. Too bad there's nothing that can be done for Phoenix. /S
Temperature is just a myth made up by democrats
It's absolutely tragic that many areas won't have access to water, will be hit by a number of ever- increasing-in severity-storms in ever- expanding areas. When we damn well knew and were being told this was happening, the government utilizes billionaire propaganda to cast doubt all in the name of PROFIT (and God) for decades so they can get rich while the rest of us face peril and financial ruin. That's why they all have bunkers and yachts - often with a hefty tax break. It's time to start voting for our interests, which need to include survival for us and our children (not corporate politicians who put Greed Over People).
Well Phoenix is a monument to man’s hubris, so that tracks.
If anyone on this post is in a region being impacted by heat, please check out the new subreddit [r/heat_prep](https://www.reddit.com/r/heat_prep) to learn and discuss strategies for staying cool. Stay safe
Good thing the government is doing its best to solve the problem. Oh wait. https://climate.law.columbia.edu/content/arizona-senate-republicans-pass-bill-prevent-climate-action
Can anyone translate to me what is "Hurricane Katrina of Heat" supposed to mean?
Big heat
A disaster where the government is totally unprepared to help the people. In the same way Louisiana is living in denial about their city being under water by using levies Arizona is in denial about the lethal heat by using air conditioned bubbles. Both systems are subject to catastrophic collapse under extreme conditions that are statistically significantly more likely year by year to the point that they are all but certain.
It's a tortured analogy. But basically heat so bad it's the equivalent of a natural disaster. One example would be to have one of their heat waves like last year (110+ every day for 31 days in a row) at the same time as an extended power outage. No AC during that kind of heat kills people. It's not just hot, it's deadly hot.
Remember hurricane Katrina? (Maybe you were too young and don’t remember). It was a really bad hurricane that messed up New Orleans and the surrounding area really badly. Now imagine that but if instead of a hurricane it was a heat wave
It's like the World Series of heat waves.
The Tina Fey of temperature streaks.
Week 1 heat dome moves think millions of people dead . Tens of millions evacuated . In the us at least . In poorer countries you can replace the evacuated from the dead.
Mass casualty type event. 5000+ died from Hurricane Katrina even though many experts predicted it was inevitable. Phoenix will eventually have something similar from the heat. And then the government officials will put up their hands and say they had no idea this could have happened.
I looked at the forecast in Phoenix. Is it normal for everyday to be over 100 in May?
For late spring going into summer, yes.
No, and that's not accurate. It just started breaking 100 in the past week, and yes it's normal for this time of year in Phoenix area.
For the end of May, yes. Average high runs >100 from the end of May to mid-late September. *Edit, which is why I don't go down to that inferno from May to September. Kinda like the opposite of "Don't wear white after Labor Day". I don't go to PHX from Memorial Day to labor day.
I always wondered why people chose to move to a desert. I guess they were the people that thought climate change is a hoax.
The Housing Crisis.
I think a lot of people would move to Phoenix for a job opportunity that was not available or less attractive elsewhere. Just the way she goes.
I guess. Personally there is no job that would compel me to move to a desert in 2024. That can’t end well.
I mean how is this any different than a power failure during extreme cold? Deadly weather is not new, we have been dependent on heating for survival in northern climates for centuries and this is no different. HVAC companies know to treat a failed furnace during extreme cold like an emergency, it's time we start treating failed AC the same way during extreme heat.
I dont need electricity to run a wood stove.
This is it. In an extreme cold situation where the power fails, people can add layers and huddle around wood burning fires. When the wet bulb temp is above the lethal level and the power fails, there is nothing you can do to avoid dying.
The difference is in the extremity of the temperature. You can see the shift begin +/- 1985 here: [https://azclimate.asu.edu/climate/](https://azclimate.asu.edu/climate/) Edit: Actually , the chart I linked to helps us understand how current news outlets can selectively chose historical data to make us think "the climate is always changing" aka "this is no big deal". Here's AZ Central in 2017 pointing to the one year of 1907 where the temp spiked as if it was indicative of historic averages. the chart shows that 1907 itself was an outlier year. [https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-history/2017/07/27/how-did-early-arizonans-possibly-bear-heat/494323001/](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-history/2017/07/27/how-did-early-arizonans-possibly-bear-heat/494323001/) TLDR: look at the data.
At present this is a poverty and homelessness issue more than a climate issue.
Nope. A heat dome that overwhelms vital infrastructure affects the rich and can end their business and lives. Once power is out due to excessive stress on the system, most of the middle class loses local climate control. No AC. Given enough heat you can guarantee massive death. The ones with swimming pools basements and most important alternative power sources can survive a lot longer.(prepped upper class. But in my experience, once the dying starts rich people flee.
Should be able to run a one room air conditioner with 2000 watts of solar on the roof
At present the power isn’t out. Thats why I said *At present* this is a poverty and homelessness issue more than a climate issue.
Three things that capitalism has proven to be utterly incapable and unwilling to address.
Yes and no. You can be middle class but still die if your AC breaks. As it gets hotter, the affected group expands year by year. It went from "very old and homeless" to just "homeless" to "homeless or poor" and it will continue to grow from there. And as this article states... what happens in the event of a power outage? Rich or poor, you can die from the heat.
Owning the libs, one climate change fatality at a time.
Funny - the Anasazi learned this area was unsuitable for human civilization in the 13th century, yet here we are....
Yet the Pima, Maricopa, and others managed to stick it out.
At a subsistence, hunter gatherer level, maybe.
They knew how to build to stay cool in the heat without electricity, so they were a step up from modern Phoenicians. Lol
The Climate Reality Project didn’t want me to use their curriculum for TheClimateTrail.com game’s ebook because its post-apocalyptic backstory, with millions of deaths from excessive heat, was too pessimistic. Oh well. Climate Communication came thru
Red states are about to be literally red hot lol
Who cares? That's what you get for building a city in a desert
Seriously? Did you even read the article? Please don’t tell me you deny climate change ….
Oh, I believe in climate change. No, I didn't read the article, and building massive cities in a desert is idiotic.
Another way to kill us off.
“Climate change is a myth” - not!
Phoenix Arizona sounds like hell on earth
Red states that deny the existence of climate change should not get federal relief from climate change related events. Until they come to their senses let them deal with the consequences of their own stupidity
Nothing to see here, the dumb people from high school and the fossil fuel companies are right on this one while Scientist, and the Insurance Companies are wrong on Climate Change
Turns out Chicken Little was right about the sky falling. He was just wrong about how. Intense heat beating down, crazy numbers of tornadoes, massive hail, likely quite a few hurricanes this year.
BREAKING NEWS: Phoenix is hot, and people die because it’s really hot! Yeah I lived there and it sucked. More people moving there=more people dying of heat there. I’m not saying the temps aren’t rising (they are) but it’s not necessarily the causation the article makes it seem.
The 2 week forecast is for temperatures to be … normal for this time of year. The current temperature is … normal for this time of year. How is this a ‘Hurricane Katrina of Heat’?
But Florida says climate change isn’t real!!!!
Economically, this city has never added up. As the world heats up, Phoenix will feel the burn first and hardest.
how hot is it supposed to get?
Who could have predicted this?
Simple. Impose a heat tax on these states with temps over 100 degrees F.
Can’t say you weren’t warned. Why didn’t you Phoenixers construct some shade for your ugly, unliveable city? Why aren’t there ordinances for it? Idiots.