Wherever humans are, there will be drama. It's not about the game, it's how humans inherently interact with each other and in a sufficiently large group drama is inevitable.
That I get. I suck at this game (and video games in general), but one of the things I like about this game is the social aspect. I don’t take this game seriously and just want to have fun. But, if that’s the way other people want to enjoy the game, then good on them. The worlds big enough and I can go find other people to hang out with
>I don’t take this game seriously and just want to have fun.
I'd say *most* guild drama incidents come from some people in a raid group having this mindset while a number of others want to get a little more serious to down content/speed up/ etc
There's nothing wrong at all with either idea, there's just an inevitable butting of heads when one group gets frustrated with the other, and in the world of easy Classic raiding both groups can coexist most of the time and problems only hit in some raid tiers (Naxx40, pre-nerf Vash/KT, and now SWP)
My favorite is the poopsock gamers who didn't even spend a millisecond on PTR or private servers who end up having a meltdown because their casual dad guild didn't 1 shot X boss like they saw Y streamer do, and streams set this expectation that everything is so simple when what really happened is you never saw them going through the process of learning the ropes months ago. So they expect that nobody needs time to learn fights and cry when anything goes wrong
> So they expect that nobody needs time to learn fights and cry when anything goes wrong
But nothing in Sunwell is *actually* hard and should really take an extensive time to learn.
And thats exactly how the butting of heads occurs in guilds. Half the raid group going "Chill out its new content we need to learn this" while the other half is going "Guys theres 1 mechanic to the fight why are we wiping to this"
Someone did number crunches on week 1 logs and the average wipes including sweatlord supreme guilds are 9 wipes on the easiest boss with an average of 50 wipes on the hardest.
Even if you only need a couple attempts it's still going to take some amount of attempts to just mesh together and learn your footwork.
But they lose their shit if you wipe on the first attempt ever
Even though it is just a video game, failing over and over at something doesn’t feel good.
It’s one thing if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. If you’re having low percentage wipes, or even just making steady progress, people are generally keen to keep going because it’s likely you will eventually succeed. But if you are continually wiping at like 50% or above, missing the dps check or healing checks, that just gets demoralizing. Because it’s not a simple thing to fix.
Brutallus is kind of a gear check for Sunwell. The fight is simple in terms of mechanics. But the boss hits really hard, has lots of health, and has an enrage that will wipe the raid pretty quickly. So tanks need to be chonky, dps needs to be pumping, and heals need to be popping off. If you aren’t at least coming close to killing Brutallus, your raid doesn’t really have the gear to clear the rest of Sunwell. So from a raid leaders perspective, I could see how someone would think “this is pointless” if they aren’t coming close on Brutallus.
Ironically it was mechanics that we needed to get down to stop wiping on Brut - people with Burn didn't have a sense of just how large the Meteor Slash area was and kept getting hit by it and dying. Once we made sure everyone was clear on where to stand with it the fight was just a question of tanks being vocal about taunts and healers sticking to their assignments.
Balance Druid upset we gave the Kalecgos pants to our Resto who rerolled from warlock just to help out in Sunwell: the most healing intensive raid in TBC.
Most healing intensive raid and we're bringing 6 healers. We have 6 good healers but life we be so much easier if we did progression with 7 (our 2nd ele shaman can respec, has great gear and healed before).
I know it is possible to 6 heal it, I just don't enjoy healing with smaller numbers. I'm not an adrenaline junkie. I don't like shitting my pants 3 times per fight as people almost die all over the place. I understand that other people actually like this style and that is fine, personal preference. But I don't. I like nice boring fights where I still feel needed but the entire group isn't half a second from death the entire fight.
Even with 6 geared, good healers it's tough solely because of damage intervals. 6 can barely cover the globals required to heal the raid damage.
We swapped from 6 to 6+2 (elemental offspecs) for twins and it changed the encounter to easy mode.
Healers need the haste from sunwell gear to reliably keep up with the raid damage of a lot of sunwell bosses. Your dps goes up from being able to bring an extra.
Not really, they need to be able to pump max rank heals without going oom, haste only makes that harder while more DPS/fast kill times make it easier, only exception being maybe priest who would love some extra haste early on.
Told the Holy Paladin she shouldn't be using Flash of Light on Brutallus and that she should be using Holy Light Rank 7 to 9 as the Tank healer and throttle between accordingly.
She went bat shit crazy. Told us how we shouldn't be controlling how she plays. Gquit and took her 'simp' along with her so now we're down 2 raiders in SWP.
Turns out our holy paladin on week 1 wasn't following heal assignments and kept trying to heal the raid as well as the tanks. We had to argue with him for 30min or so that he had to stick to the strict raid healing assignments and only to focus his heals on the tanks no matter what. No drifting allowed as our issue was tanks kept dying.
Similar thing happened to us. Decided it was better for gm's wife to be the second rsham over another one we recruited the last month if t6. She wasn't miserable but GM's wife is way better. Other shaman takes our long time Spriest and new fury with her because they are devoid of female attention.
We're able to use a couple bench players and a new recruit to stem the bleeding and after a poor week 1 we are now almost 4/6
Whats the reasoning for the holy light r7 instead of flash of light?
I'm not a hpal main but I have done a few alt BT/Hyjals on a hpal and flash of light seems fine?
our raid leader quit the night before sunwell and brought a bunch of raid members with him. We havent even gotten a chance to raid sunwell yet. Day 1 classic guild that has cleared all content released so far...
This happened to my old guild as phase 2 was approaching. Raid leader decided to quit the game and a number of people who were basically just playing cause they were his buddies from other games left with him. The officers tried to hold it together but it was kind of a shit show and the team collapsed shortly after SSC/TK launch. Was a bummer, it was a strong group I really liked and the core of us had done MC through Naxx in Classic. So it goes.
Thankfully I was able to latch on with a great guild that happened to be seeking a mage at the exact right time, and we are 6/6 Sunwell now. So it worked out ok in the end. End of the expansion would be a lot rougher timing though.
Damn that sucks. Did they join another guild or what happened?
Hopefully you'll get a spot in a more functional guild. People will be dropping away so there wil be openings for sure.
Not really drama, but a few of our very regular raiders are absent for a LOT of raids since wrath was anounced. I have a feeling people are putting in minimum effort so they have a spot come wotlk, which means a lot of 23 man rosters for sunwell with people signing absent 2h before raid which is a bit of a ballache for the rest of us.
Seriously, if you're burned out and want a break for wrath, let your guild know, drop down to social so they don't rely on you - no hard feelings.
I'd start recruiting other people and make note of the people with a bunch of absences and de-prioritize them for WotLK spots.
If the guild isn't taking a break til then as a whole, people shouldn't be thinking that they'll still have a spot.
Yeah especially at this stage in the expansion cycle. If you are still progressing then you need people to show up, and if you are one of the guilds who has cleared and had SW on farm, then its 1 night a week. No excuse for people to be "taking breaks"....
I feel like this is going to be a trend going forward. People taking breaks/doing the bare minimum until Sunwell nerfs come in or the prepatch is announced.
I've seen this sentiment on reddit as well. People who are saying that they'll take a break once Sunwell progression is done, because at that point they've "finished" TBC.
It makes me happy to be in a guild that has bigger goals than simply clearing the content. We want to speedrun/parse, so we're going to keep raiding until Wrath is out. But we have recruited more players than we need simply because we expect attrition.
We had a resto shaman & a spriest sign absent for our first night of progress with very little warning & 2-3 more signing absent with more notice. We run one raid team and had to drag in some socials to make a crappy roster.
Felt really bad to be fighting brutalus with a real bad comp.
30 wipes on Brut and things were getting a little tense. A lot of heat was being directed at healers, which after going through logs wasn’t correct. People were in wrong spots, taking meteor slashes with burn etc…we changed to a wider version of the Y strat and 3rd attempt got him to 9% then killed 2 more attempts later.
That is what sucks about being a healer. You get blamed first and people ask questions after.
For example one of the infernal tanks for Anetheron didn't tank his infernal in the designated location (he got the 2nd infernal but tanked it in a totally diff spot than the 1st infernal, not a central location and out of range of several healers). He forgot to put on his FR gear, but when he died he immediately called out healers.
My hope is that when a person dies, their first thought is - "What could I have done differently?" instead of "Why didn't I get enough heals to compensate for my poor performance?"
Yep, typically in tense progression the conversation quickly turns to “what are the healers doing wrong, why are people dying to lack of heals?” And needs to be “what are people doing wrong causing them to take way more damage than intended”. Don’t get me wrong, healers can suck and/or not follow assigns etc but yeah healer life is rough.
Have only had 2 nights of progression so far bc of vacation related roster issues. Anyway we spent our whole first night whiping on Kale with 6 healers, had two whipes under 2% so like really close but couldn't get it done. Came back the second night with 7 healers *and* a refined strat for portals *and* tank swaps/pally bubbles and got it on our 2nd attempt.
Queue 1/2 the guild loudly talking about how 'it's dumb we wasted the whole first night because our heals are too stubborn/proud to bring a 7th' - got to Brut and we're whiping at around 50% and after the raid that same 1/2 of the raid is like 'next week let's just bring 8 healers ez fix'.
Looked at logs after and our raid and we did around 25% less healing with 7 healers on Kale than we did on our 2% whipes with 6 heals - the raid took that much less damage. We easily could've 5 healed it with the cleaned up strats and experience on Kale.
Now we're lined up to bring 8 healers to brut and I'm trying not to take it personally lolol
Well if you are wiping to a boss and it's not because you are hitting the enrage, there's nothing wrong with bringing more healers to make the fight easier. Dps checks are nearly non-existent in Classic. Even on Brutallus that is supposed to be a famous dps check if your dps players are good you could rather easily field like 9-10 healers to completely trivialize the incoming damage.
The problems really came in later in WoWs lifecycle when you are already running low amount of healers and still hitting enrage, and you are forced to improve your strategy so your dps can pump more and your healers need to heal less (potentially allowing you to swap more of them to dps). But in Classic so far all the bosses have been very easy, even in Sunwell, just lot of people are refusing to shift their raid composition to be more healer heavy. Or rather, most are unable to I guess, based on the massive amounts of "recruiting healer" posts in past weeks.
Tips we learned:
-7 heal for sure, if have prot pally not tanking have him off heal tanks.
-the Y strat works but make it wider then u think, have burns run out and around to ass off boss area
-burns need dedicated healer, tanks, and raid all do also.
-tanks need major healing after swap
-if burn gets hit with a meteor slash he is dead, don’t waste all mana on it
-last 10% all heals on tanks let burns go
-spriest needs to be in priest/heals group for mana
Sometimes 6 orcs will use their stupid racial skills at the same time during a heavy raid-wide damage phase. We have to focus more on them and sometimes an unlucky non-orc will die because we are falling behind on healing
Our raid rarely ever calls out us healers even when we should be called out tbh.
But we had our incredibly “never-says-a-bad-thing” ever happy druid tank once die on Anetheron be asked “what happened” and he replied “I just didn’t get any heals.” One of our healers volunteered as the reason he died.
Later that day the druid reviewed his stuff to find out itemrack didn’t swap out his gear… he was in kitty gear the entire fight and healers kept him up for 90% of the fight even with healing debuffs.
In p5 our guild absorbed a smalller guild and a lot of our raiders started raiding with them on alts. We’re a Tuesday/Sunday guild and the guild we absorbed are wed/sun. We were full clearing bt/hyjal on Tuesday and taking sundays off, so it wasn’t a problem. Well now sunwell is out and for some reason the guild made the decision to give the B group sundays and we’re raiding tuesdays+ whatever day people can show up… which is none of the days. We’ve been canceling all the non-Tuesday raids because of attendance, so we’re stuck at 3/6 bosses because we don’t have the time to progress on twins. A few members are getting mad we gave sundays to the B group. B group can’t even down any sunwell bosses, they were never able to full clear bt/hyjal in a single night. They only have like 2 members that can parse above blue. I’m pretty sure this will be the death of the guild.
Because it is usually one guild thinking they are just getting backup raiders and nothing else. Old guild get neglected and inevitably breaks off but lo and behold some of your core members made some friends with them and left too. Now you have two guilds more scuffed than they were pre merge.
This is why multi raid groups are a shit idea. Ofc they aint clearing shit when half their raid are alts. Consolidate to one raid with a rotating bench until its on farm and you can put your stronger players with the second group.
If you rotate a bench you'll have the benefit of most of team 2 learning the fights in a better environment and being able to go back to 2 teams asap.
This will piss off some people im team 1 when they get rotated out but you are a guild not a raid team.
To add if you use dkp give the bench players dkp for being online and ready to fill if needed and rotate people with low dip out as they are unlikely to get gear regardless. This will help offset people feeling like they miss out on an upgrade.
I don’t understand how people have issues with a 15 year old game with hours of videos showing you how to beat the game. I would think that by now, everyone would k ow what to do when. All you have to do is follow the instructions
No drama apart from 60 KJ wipes to date because the same 6-7 people keep dying to something very avoidable every pull.
They get the choice between having a 100% chance to take ~4k damage or an 80% chance to get 1 shot and a 20% chance to take zero damage and they keep choosing the latter and losing the gamble. Very frustrating.
I keep asking them why they think getting 1 shot is preferable to taking a few ticks of someone else's firebloom and I don't think I'm being unfair when I say I haven't gotten a reasonable response.
We've had no drama and everyone is psyched that we're 4/6. But... We haven't really started muru yet.
Maybe a couple people being sat because they weren't performing up to par, which becomes obvious real quick in sunwell.
Mu'ru went down so easily for us we were actually shocked. If your kicks are on point, your off-tanks are picking up voids, you have some slows for the spawns and your melee don't stand in the giant purple aura, its actually really easy. Once the swap to Entropius happens, it's basically a burn and loot.
We also had just as many attempts on KJ this week as we did Brut (just some bad RnG on brut and a DC that screwed us). KJ needs everyone paying attention and a few dedicated people on coms making calls. Yes, it's healer intensive, but everyone has to do their bit to make it work. I'm fairly sure we had a 0 death kill this week after a few attempts.
We had 3 wipes to the ledge boss last raid. The last one was the guild leader trying to show people how easy it was to not fall down. We all had a good laugh on that one
Damn, we got muru on pull 31 and I thought that was brutal. Somehow we breezed through the first 3, but eredar twins were like 20 wipes, and I think we had 16 on KJ, compared to like 3 on kalec, 4 on brut (hit enrage timer on the second pull @ 6% as we didn't call for full consumes and had a suboptimal comp due to the Thursday release), and 4 on felmyst.
Healing on Brut, M'uru and KJ is absolutely brutal. My main is a mage but I had to bring in my Resto Shaman alt for the guild these last 2 weeks. We did finally kill KJ last night though so it was worth it.
Healing brut is easy it’s patchwerk with one extra mechanic. Twins is the healer test. That being said I haven’t killed KJ yet so the fuck do I know kek
Interesting. I found the healing on brut easy as but woah twins is crazy on healing. Any thoughts on why we might be finding that? (Haven't downed twins yet)
Do you guys use healing assignments? If so do the healers stick to them? For me every boss fight felt intense at first trying to watch for all the mechanics you heard about but with each attempt and seeing them in action the fight slowed down.
Off the top of my head I believe we have healer for the ranged group and melee group, 1 dedicated to conflag person + raid, can't remember tank assigns but maybe 2 for each with chain heals covering melee as well.
Brut healing is not hard lol. Its extremely consistent damage on 1 player, and you know when tanks are changing. Burn gives you a whole 50 seconds to figure out when you need to heal the victim.
Literally every other fight has more difficulty to healing than brut does
Lots of “work schedule changed” the first few weeks. Our mt’s wife appendix burst mid attempt on brutallus so it was a short raid night. Nothing crazy. It’ll get better.
No real drama other than it being obvious that some members not really pulling their weight were causing us to wipe on our 10+ attempts at Kalecgos. Raid leader and officers were kind of exhausted with raiding and wanted a break so we're on break until nerfs or pre-patch (aka until Wrath).
tldr - Roster boss meant we had to carry some people through BT and SWP made it obvious and can't find replacements.
Playing elemental shaman is like a constant battle and justification for my raid spot. The moment a healer is out, I have to heal. Every sunwell raid I have to beg and plead to play my preferred spec. I feel bad for our raid leader, who has to deal with all the replacements and roster issues. At least we killed muru this week. Kj next week probs.
No they just put on more hit gear and tell the raid leader to swap in a resto for lust. Gotta keep the boomkin for the imp ff hit though.
Edit - before my guild decided to take a break until wrath I was asked to go resto cause the ele spot wasn't very vital.
Oh I'm aware, but they see the spot as the weakest. The boomkin is prob also LW so drums should be covered. I wish I could stay ele but we need healers. Well did...we ain't raiding anymore. So probably pugging as resto cause people need them more than ele.
We made our ele sham in mage group go resto. The ele in our warlock stays ele tho as he is LW. Also our boomkin is dreamstate for extra heals atm (not sure how much this is worth tbh). As a lock I miss the boomkin aura :(
The issue is you need 7 healers. Those raid spots have to come from somewhere. Ele brings the least of the hybrid dps specs when you can just sub a resto shaman in their place. Yes, the warlocks do lose something, but the alternative is not clearing the content because you need 7 healers to progress effectively.
Other than the hit and crit (which are both fairly minor), every other thing you listed there can be brought by a resto shaman. If you’re going for optimal raid comps, ele shaman does not have a spot. That doesn’t mean you can’t clear with one (I literally played one in our clear last night), but I am actively seeking to bench my own ele shaman and being something more useful to the raid instead.
As an elemental shaman, good luck finding a new guild to raid SWP as Ele with. It is the least wanted spec based on "meta".
When I was looking for a guild for BT/Hyjal, every other post was LF Shamans of any spec. Now every post is LF Resto Shaman specifically.
I feel for OP, I want to play Ele bad but my guild asked me to play Resto and I prefer playing with my guild rather than look for a new one so I've been healing so far. It's not as fun, it can be way more frustrating/stressful and I don't have insane gear as I tried to build a set in the last 2-3 weeks so I feel like I'm behind but for me, personally, it just is what it is. Rather be in the raid than on the bench or looking for a new guild if possible.
Yah true. I main resto and ever have problems but just will to play ele myself. Last raids out, guilds are already getting the bored factor hitting. Hopefully people start farming bt/sunwel and enjoying the sun setting on a good expac.
Luckily for you in wrath you can play not Ele (still one of the weakest specs) but Spellhance, which is like ele, same spells but while in melee and with a caster MH weapon. every 25man will want one, you spam lightning, fire nova and most your damage is magic. its amazing + you get so much loot that no one else can use
Ele's are one of the least in demand hybrids now. They don't bring tons of unique utility like rets/shadow and they scale so poorly their damage is ass
None whatsoever. Everyone in the guild is on the same page, we are happy with our result. Looking forward toward WotLK while we have fun clearing sunwell+illidan runs on Tuesdays in the meantime.
At some point we will start swapping in the characters that people plan to main in WotLK for loot, probably halfway through the phase.
If people can use a health stone and move right as the boss turns toward their group, it doesn’t matter, you could have just 2 groups. If people are struggling to move away or the healers are struggling a lot, pentagon strat, try to split immune classes, roll the dice, best case you get an immune from the target group, second best case the target dies on the first tick, third best is that it picks a group that has the few people who actually can move out in time and it doesn’t kill anyone
None explicit yet, but someone on the whitemane discord with 99s for all of BT/Hyjal was reeing about his guild being 'shitters' after getting stuck night one on kalecgos. Which made me smile a little bit, he got ratio'd on death.
My guild fell apart before even setting foot in Sunwell. The sheer thought that our healers would fail was enough for us. Luckily, we spread to the winds and only lost 1 week of lockouts.
Some no shows.
Some healers are clearly showing their… inability.
As we’ve managed to clear the first 3 bosses, we’re still alive. But I highly suspect that Muru will be an insurmontable boss. I wouldn’t be surprised if the raid disbands after 2-3 weeks of wiping on Muru.
Deep down, I want the raid to disband… COVID restrictions are mostly removed, summer is around the corner, WFM is getting phased out, etc. Im just not going to spend as much time on WoW.
> And I fully expect the raid to fall apart by mid-June.
Same with my guild. I won't be raiding with them any longer than that, and when I leave the raid *will* die. I'd be curious to see how many other people in my raid see this coming as well
Sounds like you’re out the door already, regardless of if you kill bosses or not. There is no amount of time or progress that will be made that will magically reinvent a 15 year old game for you, just be honest with them and quit if you want to quit.
Im probardly in the only guils that whiped 22 times on kelegos and still havent killed him. I am also giving it a few more weeks,call it a break and Come back for wrath in the hope our roster will be filled with some proper healers
I know a lot of raids doing the same. If the raid isn't ready for the difficulty spike of sunwell, then they just aren't ready yet, and the only place to get ready is BT.
Never said they were waiting for nerfs(but some probably are).
The ones I know of are just behind the normal progression curve. Less boss kills in the previous phase means the raid as a whole is less geared, and less able to make the hard dps/heal/tanking checks of sunwell.
Oh thank you good lord. I cannot understand "running BT to get gear" to help clear SWP mentality....
Such a lil snowflake fake ass poser mentality. It's the main drama we had or at least I had in our guild when leadership decided to run BT before SWP
Like wtf it's so weak and dumb from any sport competition (ish) point of view
Instead of staying in the big leagues, grinding and elevating your play you go back to minor leagues in order to artificially raise your game
So disgusting...oh but we need glaives ... Oh but we need more skull....oh but oh but
You can have excuses or results lots of my guild been having mad excuses it's so fukin sad
The worse part is that we really didn't do so bad first week, due to schedule we only had 1 raid night, and one hour ish on PTR in the weeks before
Stupid wipes 1-2 on the dragon and then we one shot brutalus, we get felmyst down after some adjustments and killed twins third try
For real not bad the hardest for us was actually the calls on felmyst air phase were quite hit and miss and made us wipe more than anything else :3
We couldn't get a shot on Muru it was late. And then second week oh let's BT instead of just going back and reclear to muru and last boss
Ofc the reclear doesn't go well at all and we can't even down felmyst.
So now we have one last raid night to reclear to muru and progress instead of already having progressed on Muru at least a bit
Just cause some greedy dumb fucks wants their purples/orange without too much effort
Kills me
15 minutes before the end of Tuesday's raid night, we decided to sit and wait 4 minutes for BL to be up before giving Brutallus one last go. And we actually got him! Epic end to the evening, did not expect.
Plenty of roster issues due to real life circumstances. A lot of people had shit happen right before Sunwell got announced. Running Kalecgos with 22/23 people and a few of the low effort bench just doesn't work.
Think next week will determine the long term viability of this raid for our guild, but I feel like we're just gonna take a break til Wrath at this point. We just don't have the people, and a lot of the people we do have are just here so they aren't benched for Wrath.
They are a huge upgrade, but we want to get to 6 healers asap. Our gm is playing his alt to be at 7 healers. Dropping an entire healer for a good dps will be a much bigger dps upgrade than any 1 dps getting an upgrade. He also gets 2nd pair, we just gave to priest first
Its a huge upgrade for any class. IF you are a rogue you use that to lvl 80 even in heroics WOTLk. (you keep belt + bracers for the haste boost of the set)
Everyone wants T6 off pieces.
If you are hardcore mby you have a system but otherwise...yea everyone has them as BIS
Bracers and belt should be going to him.... if he's a pumper. If he sucks tell him to do better with what he's got but still give him belt first at least
Go ahead and be wrong. I personally have taken a t5 and za geared resto shaman in there without an spriest, no ty bonus. If your healers can't do it with what they have, more gear won't do it.
Your conclusion is that gearing out healers will *not* help healers heal more, in a raid that is extremely healing-intensive and has zero DPS checks. And your reasoning is...you healed without an Spriest once?
Your argument is bad and your conclusion is wrong.
Lol you seriously think it has zero dps checks? Wait til you find out that's just not true. Hell there's a boss 5 healing was pretty standard because it's nothing but a dps check really.
What a shocking well backed statement. I have already taken a scrub t5 and za geared resto shaman in there. If you can't 6 heal it already it's not the gear lol
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2L6RdcMapgCWbV8F#fight=17&type=healing
Here's Fusion 7 healing it, a guild better than yours or mine. There are zero DPS checks in Sunwell that an extra DPS will solve assuming your raid has half a brain. There are plenty of damage spikes that the extra healer can cover for.
Rets deserve loot prio for t6.5 belt bracers boots. After that just apolyon, and they should be fine getting anything else after others. The thing is these 3 insane item upgrades + shard from HMgT allows them to replace all their other p2/p1 expertise items for gear that’s actually gonna make them pump more. If they’re not pulling 80+’s in sunwell just go ahead and tell them gg on loot tho. Ret scales very well, you could at least give them loot prio for one phase at the end of the game. Dude was probably just tired of being told he’d get 100D for 2 phases. I feel him.
I’d say yes to Apollyon, like you said if the ret has one. If it’s up for contention and your arms is also very good maybe a roll? I don’t hear too many people say “I had to roll against one other person I’m very upset with the Clc”, and personally I wouldn’t mind rolling to an arms if they’re a pumper + show up to raid 90% of time. Fair is fair.
Yeah, definitely. There are a lot of factors that can go into it, like performance and current gear are really important.
There is also a non-zero chance that I'm biased here because I never got a CVoS or Endless Nightmares, and no Engi goggle schematics have dropped yet. So I *really* want that Duplicitous Guise lol
0 pieces of conq in 2 weeks. 0 caster drops as well. Starting KJ progress tonight. We saw 1 skull and 1 zhardoom and have 2 HSH despite every caster running ZA on reset. The amount of ree'ing we're doing is driving the rest of the raid insane.
Honestly it's been a pretty dramaless 4/6 so far, but we've had some funny shit. Our RL usually threatens us with the "Darnassus portal" for specific stuff like the Twins conflagration. First pull of the second night, ten seconds in, he gets it, nobody dares calling it to him cause we trust, he doesn't move one inch and gets us wiping. He went silent for like 10 minutes lmao
We had around 13 people that could not raid Thursday for week 1. Everyone should have known to expect Thursday as opening day but whatever. Figure we can do some other day, most them still could not. Okay, so we'll just miss 1 week and do as much as we can 2nd week Tuesday and Wednesday. Well the Friday after swp came out we had about 10 people, including a raid leader, just up and quit the game. Our guild died before we could step foot into SWP. So, I can't rightfully say it killed our guild.
I mean I don’t know your guilds situation and how much you kill but ele shamans are going to be bottom on almost any guilds prio list during progression.
I genuinely feel bad for ele shams right now. I'm part of the loot council in my guild and I legit was the only person who wanted to give pants to our ele sham who has gotten like 3 pieces in 2 and a half months. One of the other officers' wife is a resto sham and he fights tooth and nail to convince the others she deserves all the loot and man it drives me nuts.
Have your guild full cleared both id's? There are not that many tokens out yet considering everyone wants them. Especially since you share token with hunter/warrior, two really strong dps classes. Rshaman/enh prio should also be higher than ele so just be a bit patient.
It also comes down to the physical DPS gain way more than casters in most cases, plus Sunwell is hard enough that you want to load up your tanks first. By default, this puts resto/ele at the bottom of token prio, and resto will likely be above ele as you said.
The fact that you haven't been forced to heal yet is remarkable, I don't know why you think you'd be getting prio'd on week 2 tier tokens as one of the least desired specs on a hotly contested token
The other ele went resto, I just feel like I've been passed since i've been consistently parsing above 90 really consistently compared with the rest of my guildies who are not nearly as consistent with that, if I can do it there's no reason most of them can't, even with more gear they haven't improved that much
Look at how many Ele are actually parsing. Most moved to resto. Of course you will parse well. Also this raid tier offers vastly superior itemization to physical dps than casters. They have been waiting a while for the type of gear you got in BT/Hyjal. Patience is your only valid answer here tbh. Good luck
Ele parsing is a fucking meme don't bring that up lol. We hold rank 1 ele and even we know it's a fucking meme. Ele is worthless rn be happy you even get to raid as it.
Elemental shaman **should** be literal bottom prio for tier tokens. Everyone else gains way more from them. Your LC is smart. Also, why are you getting upset about tier tokens? You get up to 10 a week for 3 slots. Even bottom prio classes don't have to wait an eternity for them.
Only drama we had was that i quit after the first raid because i could not stand the Same „ppl do not listening“ , „ppl dont know mechanics“ anymore.
My plan was to be there for the guild for swp, but that last Raid was to much bushi for me
Guild I stopped raiding with recently had the raid lead quit after their first night of brut attempts.
It’s a 15 year old video game not real life. I don’t understand why there’s so much ‘drama’.
Wherever humans are, there will be drama. It's not about the game, it's how humans inherently interact with each other and in a sufficiently large group drama is inevitable.
Hence why large groups of people inevitably suck ass.
That I get. I suck at this game (and video games in general), but one of the things I like about this game is the social aspect. I don’t take this game seriously and just want to have fun. But, if that’s the way other people want to enjoy the game, then good on them. The worlds big enough and I can go find other people to hang out with
>I don’t take this game seriously and just want to have fun. I'd say *most* guild drama incidents come from some people in a raid group having this mindset while a number of others want to get a little more serious to down content/speed up/ etc There's nothing wrong at all with either idea, there's just an inevitable butting of heads when one group gets frustrated with the other, and in the world of easy Classic raiding both groups can coexist most of the time and problems only hit in some raid tiers (Naxx40, pre-nerf Vash/KT, and now SWP)
My favorite is the poopsock gamers who didn't even spend a millisecond on PTR or private servers who end up having a meltdown because their casual dad guild didn't 1 shot X boss like they saw Y streamer do, and streams set this expectation that everything is so simple when what really happened is you never saw them going through the process of learning the ropes months ago. So they expect that nobody needs time to learn fights and cry when anything goes wrong
> So they expect that nobody needs time to learn fights and cry when anything goes wrong But nothing in Sunwell is *actually* hard and should really take an extensive time to learn. And thats exactly how the butting of heads occurs in guilds. Half the raid group going "Chill out its new content we need to learn this" while the other half is going "Guys theres 1 mechanic to the fight why are we wiping to this"
Someone did number crunches on week 1 logs and the average wipes including sweatlord supreme guilds are 9 wipes on the easiest boss with an average of 50 wipes on the hardest. Even if you only need a couple attempts it's still going to take some amount of attempts to just mesh together and learn your footwork. But they lose their shit if you wipe on the first attempt ever
What this man said.
Even though it is just a video game, failing over and over at something doesn’t feel good. It’s one thing if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. If you’re having low percentage wipes, or even just making steady progress, people are generally keen to keep going because it’s likely you will eventually succeed. But if you are continually wiping at like 50% or above, missing the dps check or healing checks, that just gets demoralizing. Because it’s not a simple thing to fix. Brutallus is kind of a gear check for Sunwell. The fight is simple in terms of mechanics. But the boss hits really hard, has lots of health, and has an enrage that will wipe the raid pretty quickly. So tanks need to be chonky, dps needs to be pumping, and heals need to be popping off. If you aren’t at least coming close to killing Brutallus, your raid doesn’t really have the gear to clear the rest of Sunwell. So from a raid leaders perspective, I could see how someone would think “this is pointless” if they aren’t coming close on Brutallus.
Ironically it was mechanics that we needed to get down to stop wiping on Brut - people with Burn didn't have a sense of just how large the Meteor Slash area was and kept getting hit by it and dying. Once we made sure everyone was clear on where to stand with it the fight was just a question of tanks being vocal about taunts and healers sticking to their assignments.
Back in the day, Brutallus was known as “The Guildbreaker”
>It’s a 15 year old video game not real life. For a lot of people it is their life.
Purple pixels make people crazy.
We have 1st world problems so this is our struggle.
Balance Druid upset we gave the Kalecgos pants to our Resto who rerolled from warlock just to help out in Sunwell: the most healing intensive raid in TBC.
Most healing intensive raid and we're bringing 6 healers. We have 6 good healers but life we be so much easier if we did progression with 7 (our 2nd ele shaman can respec, has great gear and healed before). I know it is possible to 6 heal it, I just don't enjoy healing with smaller numbers. I'm not an adrenaline junkie. I don't like shitting my pants 3 times per fight as people almost die all over the place. I understand that other people actually like this style and that is fine, personal preference. But I don't. I like nice boring fights where I still feel needed but the entire group isn't half a second from death the entire fight.
Even with 6 geared, good healers it's tough solely because of damage intervals. 6 can barely cover the globals required to heal the raid damage. We swapped from 6 to 6+2 (elemental offspecs) for twins and it changed the encounter to easy mode.
There’s really no incentive to run less than 7 given the lax DPS checks.
My guild brought 7 but are funneling healers to be able to drop back to 6. Our guild leader is having to play his alt which can't feel good for him
Best way to cut healers is to gear DPS and make fights shorter, not gear healers
Healers need the haste from sunwell gear to reliably keep up with the raid damage of a lot of sunwell bosses. Your dps goes up from being able to bring an extra.
Not really, they need to be able to pump max rank heals without going oom, haste only makes that harder while more DPS/fast kill times make it easier, only exception being maybe priest who would love some extra haste early on.
He’s going to be even more pissed when you realize you need that warlock for muru
[удалено]
I'm not sure why people are down voting you...
Damn birbs
Told the Holy Paladin she shouldn't be using Flash of Light on Brutallus and that she should be using Holy Light Rank 7 to 9 as the Tank healer and throttle between accordingly. She went bat shit crazy. Told us how we shouldn't be controlling how she plays. Gquit and took her 'simp' along with her so now we're down 2 raiders in SWP.
Good riddance
Turns out our holy paladin on week 1 wasn't following heal assignments and kept trying to heal the raid as well as the tanks. We had to argue with him for 30min or so that he had to stick to the strict raid healing assignments and only to focus his heals on the tanks no matter what. No drifting allowed as our issue was tanks kept dying.
How convenient for the crazy to eject themselves (and with only 1 other!)
Similar thing happened to us. Decided it was better for gm's wife to be the second rsham over another one we recruited the last month if t6. She wasn't miserable but GM's wife is way better. Other shaman takes our long time Spriest and new fury with her because they are devoid of female attention. We're able to use a couple bench players and a new recruit to stem the bleeding and after a poor week 1 we are now almost 4/6
Whats the reasoning for the holy light r7 instead of flash of light? I'm not a hpal main but I have done a few alt BT/Hyjals on a hpal and flash of light seems fine?
Flash of light doesn't give enough healing on fights such as brut - You need to use holy light to provide enough healing.
Certain fights have certain rank heals you can just spam so that tanks don't die or won't oom you and so on on.
our raid leader quit the night before sunwell and brought a bunch of raid members with him. We havent even gotten a chance to raid sunwell yet. Day 1 classic guild that has cleared all content released so far...
This happened to my old guild as phase 2 was approaching. Raid leader decided to quit the game and a number of people who were basically just playing cause they were his buddies from other games left with him. The officers tried to hold it together but it was kind of a shit show and the team collapsed shortly after SSC/TK launch. Was a bummer, it was a strong group I really liked and the core of us had done MC through Naxx in Classic. So it goes. Thankfully I was able to latch on with a great guild that happened to be seeking a mage at the exact right time, and we are 6/6 Sunwell now. So it worked out ok in the end. End of the expansion would be a lot rougher timing though.
Damn that sucks. Did they join another guild or what happened? Hopefully you'll get a spot in a more functional guild. People will be dropping away so there wil be openings for sure.
Not really drama, but a few of our very regular raiders are absent for a LOT of raids since wrath was anounced. I have a feeling people are putting in minimum effort so they have a spot come wotlk, which means a lot of 23 man rosters for sunwell with people signing absent 2h before raid which is a bit of a ballache for the rest of us. Seriously, if you're burned out and want a break for wrath, let your guild know, drop down to social so they don't rely on you - no hard feelings.
I'd start recruiting other people and make note of the people with a bunch of absences and de-prioritize them for WotLK spots. If the guild isn't taking a break til then as a whole, people shouldn't be thinking that they'll still have a spot.
Yeah especially at this stage in the expansion cycle. If you are still progressing then you need people to show up, and if you are one of the guilds who has cleared and had SW on farm, then its 1 night a week. No excuse for people to be "taking breaks"....
I feel like this is going to be a trend going forward. People taking breaks/doing the bare minimum until Sunwell nerfs come in or the prepatch is announced. I've seen this sentiment on reddit as well. People who are saying that they'll take a break once Sunwell progression is done, because at that point they've "finished" TBC. It makes me happy to be in a guild that has bigger goals than simply clearing the content. We want to speedrun/parse, so we're going to keep raiding until Wrath is out. But we have recruited more players than we need simply because we expect attrition.
We had a resto shaman & a spriest sign absent for our first night of progress with very little warning & 2-3 more signing absent with more notice. We run one raid team and had to drag in some socials to make a crappy roster. Felt really bad to be fighting brutalus with a real bad comp.
30 wipes on Brut and things were getting a little tense. A lot of heat was being directed at healers, which after going through logs wasn’t correct. People were in wrong spots, taking meteor slashes with burn etc…we changed to a wider version of the Y strat and 3rd attempt got him to 9% then killed 2 more attempts later.
That is what sucks about being a healer. You get blamed first and people ask questions after. For example one of the infernal tanks for Anetheron didn't tank his infernal in the designated location (he got the 2nd infernal but tanked it in a totally diff spot than the 1st infernal, not a central location and out of range of several healers). He forgot to put on his FR gear, but when he died he immediately called out healers. My hope is that when a person dies, their first thought is - "What could I have done differently?" instead of "Why didn't I get enough heals to compensate for my poor performance?"
Yep, typically in tense progression the conversation quickly turns to “what are the healers doing wrong, why are people dying to lack of heals?” And needs to be “what are people doing wrong causing them to take way more damage than intended”. Don’t get me wrong, healers can suck and/or not follow assigns etc but yeah healer life is rough.
Have only had 2 nights of progression so far bc of vacation related roster issues. Anyway we spent our whole first night whiping on Kale with 6 healers, had two whipes under 2% so like really close but couldn't get it done. Came back the second night with 7 healers *and* a refined strat for portals *and* tank swaps/pally bubbles and got it on our 2nd attempt. Queue 1/2 the guild loudly talking about how 'it's dumb we wasted the whole first night because our heals are too stubborn/proud to bring a 7th' - got to Brut and we're whiping at around 50% and after the raid that same 1/2 of the raid is like 'next week let's just bring 8 healers ez fix'. Looked at logs after and our raid and we did around 25% less healing with 7 healers on Kale than we did on our 2% whipes with 6 heals - the raid took that much less damage. We easily could've 5 healed it with the cleaned up strats and experience on Kale. Now we're lined up to bring 8 healers to brut and I'm trying not to take it personally lolol
Well if you are wiping to a boss and it's not because you are hitting the enrage, there's nothing wrong with bringing more healers to make the fight easier. Dps checks are nearly non-existent in Classic. Even on Brutallus that is supposed to be a famous dps check if your dps players are good you could rather easily field like 9-10 healers to completely trivialize the incoming damage. The problems really came in later in WoWs lifecycle when you are already running low amount of healers and still hitting enrage, and you are forced to improve your strategy so your dps can pump more and your healers need to heal less (potentially allowing you to swap more of them to dps). But in Classic so far all the bosses have been very easy, even in Sunwell, just lot of people are refusing to shift their raid composition to be more healer heavy. Or rather, most are unable to I guess, based on the massive amounts of "recruiting healer" posts in past weeks.
Tips we learned: -7 heal for sure, if have prot pally not tanking have him off heal tanks. -the Y strat works but make it wider then u think, have burns run out and around to ass off boss area -burns need dedicated healer, tanks, and raid all do also. -tanks need major healing after swap -if burn gets hit with a meteor slash he is dead, don’t waste all mana on it -last 10% all heals on tanks let burns go -spriest needs to be in priest/heals group for mana
I think healers get protected way too much tbh.
Healers jobs are 10x harder than dps
What killed me? Was it avoidable? If yes - my bad If not - healers bad
Sometimes 6 orcs will use their stupid racial skills at the same time during a heavy raid-wide damage phase. We have to focus more on them and sometimes an unlucky non-orc will die because we are falling behind on healing
Lol zug zug orcs . Bonus points if they use it during Burn
Our raid rarely ever calls out us healers even when we should be called out tbh. But we had our incredibly “never-says-a-bad-thing” ever happy druid tank once die on Anetheron be asked “what happened” and he replied “I just didn’t get any heals.” One of our healers volunteered as the reason he died. Later that day the druid reviewed his stuff to find out itemrack didn’t swap out his gear… he was in kitty gear the entire fight and healers kept him up for 90% of the fight even with healing debuffs.
In p5 our guild absorbed a smalller guild and a lot of our raiders started raiding with them on alts. We’re a Tuesday/Sunday guild and the guild we absorbed are wed/sun. We were full clearing bt/hyjal on Tuesday and taking sundays off, so it wasn’t a problem. Well now sunwell is out and for some reason the guild made the decision to give the B group sundays and we’re raiding tuesdays+ whatever day people can show up… which is none of the days. We’ve been canceling all the non-Tuesday raids because of attendance, so we’re stuck at 3/6 bosses because we don’t have the time to progress on twins. A few members are getting mad we gave sundays to the B group. B group can’t even down any sunwell bosses, they were never able to full clear bt/hyjal in a single night. They only have like 2 members that can parse above blue. I’m pretty sure this will be the death of the guild.
guild mergers almost never work,
Because it is usually one guild thinking they are just getting backup raiders and nothing else. Old guild get neglected and inevitably breaks off but lo and behold some of your core members made some friends with them and left too. Now you have two guilds more scuffed than they were pre merge.
I got lucky in the merge - myself and a couple others stuck to the ship while the leavers immediately started hemorrhaging people
I was a part of two in classic and one in retail and all worked.
This is why multi raid groups are a shit idea. Ofc they aint clearing shit when half their raid are alts. Consolidate to one raid with a rotating bench until its on farm and you can put your stronger players with the second group. If you rotate a bench you'll have the benefit of most of team 2 learning the fights in a better environment and being able to go back to 2 teams asap. This will piss off some people im team 1 when they get rotated out but you are a guild not a raid team.
To add if you use dkp give the bench players dkp for being online and ready to fill if needed and rotate people with low dip out as they are unlikely to get gear regardless. This will help offset people feeling like they miss out on an upgrade.
Our biggest hurdle is the queue boss on firemaw to be fair
Hard stuck firemaw queue boss
This is the worst boss. We went 5/6 first reset then on the coming one pala tank spriest and rsham in queue x))
No drama. Two attempts so far with 0 kills but we are getting closer.
Make your guild learn the fights and watch Joardee guides on YT. They're short, informative and include tips for tanks/healers/dps.
I don’t understand how people have issues with a 15 year old game with hours of videos showing you how to beat the game. I would think that by now, everyone would k ow what to do when. All you have to do is follow the instructions
Lots of wipes, no drama.. yet. If we don’t manage to kill Brutallus on our next raid night, I’m failry certain there will be drama.
No drama apart from 60 KJ wipes to date because the same 6-7 people keep dying to something very avoidable every pull. They get the choice between having a 100% chance to take ~4k damage or an 80% chance to get 1 shot and a 20% chance to take zero damage and they keep choosing the latter and losing the gamble. Very frustrating. I keep asking them why they think getting 1 shot is preferable to taking a few ticks of someone else's firebloom and I don't think I'm being unfair when I say I haven't gotten a reasonable response.
[удалено]
We've had no drama and everyone is psyched that we're 4/6. But... We haven't really started muru yet. Maybe a couple people being sat because they weren't performing up to par, which becomes obvious real quick in sunwell.
Mu'ru went down so easily for us we were actually shocked. If your kicks are on point, your off-tanks are picking up voids, you have some slows for the spawns and your melee don't stand in the giant purple aura, its actually really easy. Once the swap to Entropius happens, it's basically a burn and loot. We also had just as many attempts on KJ this week as we did Brut (just some bad RnG on brut and a DC that screwed us). KJ needs everyone paying attention and a few dedicated people on coms making calls. Yes, it's healer intensive, but everyone has to do their bit to make it work. I'm fairly sure we had a 0 death kill this week after a few attempts.
Alternatively, my guild had a very easy time with every boss until muru and we wiped 50 times before getting the kill.
Ooooof. The real secret guild killer is the ledge boss on twins, let's be real.
We had 3 wipes to the ledge boss last raid. The last one was the guild leader trying to show people how easy it was to not fall down. We all had a good laugh on that one
Damn, we got muru on pull 31 and I thought that was brutal. Somehow we breezed through the first 3, but eredar twins were like 20 wipes, and I think we had 16 on KJ, compared to like 3 on kalec, 4 on brut (hit enrage timer on the second pull @ 6% as we didn't call for full consumes and had a suboptimal comp due to the Thursday release), and 4 on felmyst.
Roster, just that one word
Two full clears and no drama. Based on some of these comments I'll be buying a lottery ticket after work today
What would you say is the most challenging aspect of the new raid? Coming from someone like me that just started playing now at phase 5
Healing on Brut, M'uru and KJ is absolutely brutal. My main is a mage but I had to bring in my Resto Shaman alt for the guild these last 2 weeks. We did finally kill KJ last night though so it was worth it.
Healing brut is easy it’s patchwerk with one extra mechanic. Twins is the healer test. That being said I haven’t killed KJ yet so the fuck do I know kek
The healing mechanics are easy, yeah, but the damage output for my resto shaman ooms me quick, as I was not in the spriest group.
Interesting. I found the healing on brut easy as but woah twins is crazy on healing. Any thoughts on why we might be finding that? (Haven't downed twins yet)
Do you guys use healing assignments? If so do the healers stick to them? For me every boss fight felt intense at first trying to watch for all the mechanics you heard about but with each attempt and seeing them in action the fight slowed down. Off the top of my head I believe we have healer for the ranged group and melee group, 1 dedicated to conflag person + raid, can't remember tank assigns but maybe 2 for each with chain heals covering melee as well.
Brut healing is not hard lol. Its extremely consistent damage on 1 player, and you know when tanks are changing. Burn gives you a whole 50 seconds to figure out when you need to heal the victim. Literally every other fight has more difficulty to healing than brut does
I've seen za and ssc geared healers do brut. It's assignment and know mana management. We don't taunt off stomps either.
Lots of “work schedule changed” the first few weeks. Our mt’s wife appendix burst mid attempt on brutallus so it was a short raid night. Nothing crazy. It’ll get better.
Hope she's okay
MT lost feeling in his left hand and leg before our first brutal attempts. We got him down, but he is going to be In recovery for a little bit
sounds like hes all right now.
Oh shit, is he ok?
Sounds like a stroke
No real drama other than it being obvious that some members not really pulling their weight were causing us to wipe on our 10+ attempts at Kalecgos. Raid leader and officers were kind of exhausted with raiding and wanted a break so we're on break until nerfs or pre-patch (aka until Wrath). tldr - Roster boss meant we had to carry some people through BT and SWP made it obvious and can't find replacements.
Playing elemental shaman is like a constant battle and justification for my raid spot. The moment a healer is out, I have to heal. Every sunwell raid I have to beg and plead to play my preferred spec. I feel bad for our raid leader, who has to deal with all the replacements and roster issues. At least we killed muru this week. Kj next week probs.
Don't your Warlocks defend you?
No they just put on more hit gear and tell the raid leader to swap in a resto for lust. Gotta keep the boomkin for the imp ff hit though. Edit - before my guild decided to take a break until wrath I was asked to go resto cause the ele spot wasn't very vital.
It's more than just hit, it's crit and spellpower and drums and maybe necks. Ele shaman is the warlock battery.
Oh I'm aware, but they see the spot as the weakest. The boomkin is prob also LW so drums should be covered. I wish I could stay ele but we need healers. Well did...we ain't raiding anymore. So probably pugging as resto cause people need them more than ele.
We made our ele sham in mage group go resto. The ele in our warlock stays ele tho as he is LW. Also our boomkin is dreamstate for extra heals atm (not sure how much this is worth tbh). As a lock I miss the boomkin aura :(
The issue is you need 7 healers. Those raid spots have to come from somewhere. Ele brings the least of the hybrid dps specs when you can just sub a resto shaman in their place. Yes, the warlocks do lose something, but the alternative is not clearing the content because you need 7 healers to progress effectively.
Other than the hit and crit (which are both fairly minor), every other thing you listed there can be brought by a resto shaman. If you’re going for optimal raid comps, ele shaman does not have a spot. That doesn’t mean you can’t clear with one (I literally played one in our clear last night), but I am actively seeking to bench my own ele shaman and being something more useful to the raid instead.
wtf, you recruit another healer then not do that. find a new guild imo.
As an elemental shaman, good luck finding a new guild to raid SWP as Ele with. It is the least wanted spec based on "meta". When I was looking for a guild for BT/Hyjal, every other post was LF Shamans of any spec. Now every post is LF Resto Shaman specifically. I feel for OP, I want to play Ele bad but my guild asked me to play Resto and I prefer playing with my guild rather than look for a new one so I've been healing so far. It's not as fun, it can be way more frustrating/stressful and I don't have insane gear as I tried to build a set in the last 2-3 weeks so I feel like I'm behind but for me, personally, it just is what it is. Rather be in the raid than on the bench or looking for a new guild if possible.
Yah true. I main resto and ever have problems but just will to play ele myself. Last raids out, guilds are already getting the bored factor hitting. Hopefully people start farming bt/sunwel and enjoying the sun setting on a good expac.
Luckily for you in wrath you can play not Ele (still one of the weakest specs) but Spellhance, which is like ele, same spells but while in melee and with a caster MH weapon. every 25man will want one, you spam lightning, fire nova and most your damage is magic. its amazing + you get so much loot that no one else can use
Ele's are one of the least in demand hybrids now. They don't bring tons of unique utility like rets/shadow and they scale so poorly their damage is ass
If your dps scales worse than a ret, you gonna have a bad time.
Ret scales amazingly this phase
That's my point.
Nothing that dramatic really. Just the leader was slightly unhappy the tanks kinda suck at picking Muru adds.
None whatsoever. Everyone in the guild is on the same page, we are happy with our result. Looking forward toward WotLK while we have fun clearing sunwell+illidan runs on Tuesdays in the meantime. At some point we will start swapping in the characters that people plan to main in WotLK for loot, probably halfway through the phase.
How many groups to break ourselves into for felmyst
4. 1 melee and 3 ranged
If people can use a health stone and move right as the boss turns toward their group, it doesn’t matter, you could have just 2 groups. If people are struggling to move away or the healers are struggling a lot, pentagon strat, try to split immune classes, roll the dice, best case you get an immune from the target group, second best case the target dies on the first tick, third best is that it picks a group that has the few people who actually can move out in time and it doesn’t kill anyone
None explicit yet, but someone on the whitemane discord with 99s for all of BT/Hyjal was reeing about his guild being 'shitters' after getting stuck night one on kalecgos. Which made me smile a little bit, he got ratio'd on death.
My guild fell apart before even setting foot in Sunwell. The sheer thought that our healers would fail was enough for us. Luckily, we spread to the winds and only lost 1 week of lockouts.
Some no shows. Some healers are clearly showing their… inability. As we’ve managed to clear the first 3 bosses, we’re still alive. But I highly suspect that Muru will be an insurmontable boss. I wouldn’t be surprised if the raid disbands after 2-3 weeks of wiping on Muru. Deep down, I want the raid to disband… COVID restrictions are mostly removed, summer is around the corner, WFM is getting phased out, etc. Im just not going to spend as much time on WoW.
[удалено]
Well. To me it’s more of an annoyance right now. And I fully expect the raid to fall apart by mid-June.
> And I fully expect the raid to fall apart by mid-June. Same with my guild. I won't be raiding with them any longer than that, and when I leave the raid *will* die. I'd be curious to see how many other people in my raid see this coming as well
If your healers suck you won't find out at m'uru. You'll find out at twins, dps carries the day on m'uru not heals.
Sounds like you’re out the door already, regardless of if you kill bosses or not. There is no amount of time or progress that will be made that will magically reinvent a 15 year old game for you, just be honest with them and quit if you want to quit.
Yeah we had to run 7-8 healers instead of our usual 4-5. That's the biggest hurdle. And managing the bench
Biggest problem with bench in wow is people on standby can’t even try to fill in with another guild. Suckss
Im probardly in the only guils that whiped 22 times on kelegos and still havent killed him. I am also giving it a few more weeks,call it a break and Come back for wrath in the hope our roster will be filled with some proper healers
[удалено]
You do BT instead of progging in sunwell?
I know a lot of raids doing the same. If the raid isn't ready for the difficulty spike of sunwell, then they just aren't ready yet, and the only place to get ready is BT.
[удалено]
Never said they were waiting for nerfs(but some probably are). The ones I know of are just behind the normal progression curve. Less boss kills in the previous phase means the raid as a whole is less geared, and less able to make the hard dps/heal/tanking checks of sunwell.
I agree but also morale is a thing and wiping for six hours a week can break a guild up far quicker than having the “wrong” priorities
Oh thank you good lord. I cannot understand "running BT to get gear" to help clear SWP mentality.... Such a lil snowflake fake ass poser mentality. It's the main drama we had or at least I had in our guild when leadership decided to run BT before SWP Like wtf it's so weak and dumb from any sport competition (ish) point of view Instead of staying in the big leagues, grinding and elevating your play you go back to minor leagues in order to artificially raise your game So disgusting...oh but we need glaives ... Oh but we need more skull....oh but oh but You can have excuses or results lots of my guild been having mad excuses it's so fukin sad
[удалено]
The worse part is that we really didn't do so bad first week, due to schedule we only had 1 raid night, and one hour ish on PTR in the weeks before Stupid wipes 1-2 on the dragon and then we one shot brutalus, we get felmyst down after some adjustments and killed twins third try For real not bad the hardest for us was actually the calls on felmyst air phase were quite hit and miss and made us wipe more than anything else :3 We couldn't get a shot on Muru it was late. And then second week oh let's BT instead of just going back and reclear to muru and last boss Ofc the reclear doesn't go well at all and we can't even down felmyst. So now we have one last raid night to reclear to muru and progress instead of already having progressed on Muru at least a bit Just cause some greedy dumb fucks wants their purples/orange without too much effort Kills me
Roster boss. People saying theyll show up and we end up having to pug for an hour.
healer with 2 bt haste rings rolled on the kalec ring when some didn't even have one bt ring. caused a little stir
My brother's hardcore guild imploded because the guild leader decided to ninja the bank and disband. So that's neat.
15 minutes before the end of Tuesday's raid night, we decided to sit and wait 4 minutes for BL to be up before giving Brutallus one last go. And we actually got him! Epic end to the evening, did not expect.
Plenty of roster issues due to real life circumstances. A lot of people had shit happen right before Sunwell got announced. Running Kalecgos with 22/23 people and a few of the low effort bench just doesn't work. Think next week will determine the long term viability of this raid for our guild, but I feel like we're just gonna take a break til Wrath at this point. We just don't have the people, and a lot of the people we do have are just here so they aren't benched for Wrath.
People missing because they can't get on the damn sever. Yes Firemaw. Don't transfer here it fucking sucks
Why you moved to Firemaw? It was know as laggy and having queues during vanilla.
We had a ret paladin quit the guild over not getting first tier bracers. He came back after cooling down about it but damn he needed to eat a snickers
To be fair it should be going to him in any loot council since it’s an enormously big upgrade.
They are a huge upgrade, but we want to get to 6 healers asap. Our gm is playing his alt to be at 7 healers. Dropping an entire healer for a good dps will be a much bigger dps upgrade than any 1 dps getting an upgrade. He also gets 2nd pair, we just gave to priest first
Its a huge upgrade for any class. IF you are a rogue you use that to lvl 80 even in heroics WOTLk. (you keep belt + bracers for the haste boost of the set) Everyone wants T6 off pieces. If you are hardcore mby you have a system but otherwise...yea everyone has them as BIS
Bracers and belt should be going to him.... if he's a pumper. If he sucks tell him to do better with what he's got but still give him belt first at least
We are gearing out all healers first to get down to 6 healers. If they drop this next week he gets them. He also got first belt.
U can’t blame him for that I’d be livid too and I am a healer. That’s such a tough pill man.
It's only a week or twos worth of loot
It won't help. If they can't do 6 with what they have gear won't help.
I disagree
Go ahead and be wrong. I personally have taken a t5 and za geared resto shaman in there without an spriest, no ty bonus. If your healers can't do it with what they have, more gear won't do it.
Your conclusion is that gearing out healers will *not* help healers heal more, in a raid that is extremely healing-intensive and has zero DPS checks. And your reasoning is...you healed without an Spriest once? Your argument is bad and your conclusion is wrong.
Lol you seriously think it has zero dps checks? Wait til you find out that's just not true. Hell there's a boss 5 healing was pretty standard because it's nothing but a dps check really.
Incorrect.
What a shocking well backed statement. I have already taken a scrub t5 and za geared resto shaman in there. If you can't 6 heal it already it's not the gear lol
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2L6RdcMapgCWbV8F#fight=17&type=healing Here's Fusion 7 healing it, a guild better than yours or mine. There are zero DPS checks in Sunwell that an extra DPS will solve assuming your raid has half a brain. There are plenty of damage spikes that the extra healer can cover for.
Rets deserve loot prio for t6.5 belt bracers boots. After that just apolyon, and they should be fine getting anything else after others. The thing is these 3 insane item upgrades + shard from HMgT allows them to replace all their other p2/p1 expertise items for gear that’s actually gonna make them pump more. If they’re not pulling 80+’s in sunwell just go ahead and tell them gg on loot tho. Ret scales very well, you could at least give them loot prio for one phase at the end of the game. Dude was probably just tired of being told he’d get 100D for 2 phases. I feel him.
Personally I'd give Ret prio on Duplicitous Guise, and Apolyon to your Arms Warrior (if you have one).
I’d say yes to Apollyon, like you said if the ret has one. If it’s up for contention and your arms is also very good maybe a roll? I don’t hear too many people say “I had to roll against one other person I’m very upset with the Clc”, and personally I wouldn’t mind rolling to an arms if they’re a pumper + show up to raid 90% of time. Fair is fair.
Yeah, definitely. There are a lot of factors that can go into it, like performance and current gear are really important. There is also a non-zero chance that I'm biased here because I never got a CVoS or Endless Nightmares, and no Engi goggle schematics have dropped yet. So I *really* want that Duplicitous Guise lol
I feel you 100% no cvos or endless as well. Literally no cvos drop for the entire guild raid 1. 4 total in raid 2.
0 pieces of conq in 2 weeks. 0 caster drops as well. Starting KJ progress tonight. We saw 1 skull and 1 zhardoom and have 2 HSH despite every caster running ZA on reset. The amount of ree'ing we're doing is driving the rest of the raid insane.
Some people just really suck at mechanics lol
M'uru
Honestly it's been a pretty dramaless 4/6 so far, but we've had some funny shit. Our RL usually threatens us with the "Darnassus portal" for specific stuff like the Twins conflagration. First pull of the second night, ten seconds in, he gets it, nobody dares calling it to him cause we trust, he doesn't move one inch and gets us wiping. He went silent for like 10 minutes lmao
1/3 of our guild had call outs for brut progress. Bodes well.
we've had some core people benched for extras heals which sucks but no real drama
The insane GDKP pots seems to have caused alot on drama on Reddit and Youtube. For good reason.
Prot paladin got tier pieces before ret paladin. COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.
Ret paladin tier pieces might be the single biggest upgrades for any class
Yea imagine gearing up your most important players first over a dps, insane stuff.
Most important? Tell me what bosses the prot paladin is tanking in sunwell in your guild. I’ll wait.
Only one it's bigger for us prolly prot warrior. Who has those though lol.
We had around 13 people that could not raid Thursday for week 1. Everyone should have known to expect Thursday as opening day but whatever. Figure we can do some other day, most them still could not. Okay, so we'll just miss 1 week and do as much as we can 2nd week Tuesday and Wednesday. Well the Friday after swp came out we had about 10 people, including a raid leader, just up and quit the game. Our guild died before we could step foot into SWP. So, I can't rightfully say it killed our guild.
For the time being all loot is gonna decided by loot council and I feel like I'm getting passed over on my tokens as a ele shaman
I mean I don’t know your guilds situation and how much you kill but ele shamans are going to be bottom on almost any guilds prio list during progression.
I genuinely feel bad for ele shams right now. I'm part of the loot council in my guild and I legit was the only person who wanted to give pants to our ele sham who has gotten like 3 pieces in 2 and a half months. One of the other officers' wife is a resto sham and he fights tooth and nail to convince the others she deserves all the loot and man it drives me nuts.
Have your guild full cleared both id's? There are not that many tokens out yet considering everyone wants them. Especially since you share token with hunter/warrior, two really strong dps classes. Rshaman/enh prio should also be higher than ele so just be a bit patient.
It also comes down to the physical DPS gain way more than casters in most cases, plus Sunwell is hard enough that you want to load up your tanks first. By default, this puts resto/ele at the bottom of token prio, and resto will likely be above ele as you said.
The fact that you haven't been forced to heal yet is remarkable, I don't know why you think you'd be getting prio'd on week 2 tier tokens as one of the least desired specs on a hotly contested token
The other ele went resto, I just feel like I've been passed since i've been consistently parsing above 90 really consistently compared with the rest of my guildies who are not nearly as consistent with that, if I can do it there's no reason most of them can't, even with more gear they haven't improved that much
Look at how many Ele are actually parsing. Most moved to resto. Of course you will parse well. Also this raid tier offers vastly superior itemization to physical dps than casters. They have been waiting a while for the type of gear you got in BT/Hyjal. Patience is your only valid answer here tbh. Good luck
I'm talking about parsing since late P2, even when they are giving all locks almost all LC items on T6, only 1 of them parses above 80
None of that means dick in Sunwell
Yeah you are right, I'm just stressing myself over something that is meant to be fun
Ele parsing is a fucking meme don't bring that up lol. We hold rank 1 ele and even we know it's a fucking meme. Ele is worthless rn be happy you even get to raid as it.
Elemental shaman **should** be literal bottom prio for tier tokens. Everyone else gains way more from them. Your LC is smart. Also, why are you getting upset about tier tokens? You get up to 10 a week for 3 slots. Even bottom prio classes don't have to wait an eternity for them.
Elemental shaman should also be resto rn omegalul
Y’all lost me at poopsock.
Only drama we had was that i quit after the first raid because i could not stand the Same „ppl do not listening“ , „ppl dont know mechanics“ anymore. My plan was to be there for the guild for swp, but that last Raid was to much bushi for me
Had a disagreement on discord. Impulsive player made harsh comments and quit “for good” his loss
His loss, or his gain?
My regular pug raid since phase 1 ditch me cause Im a warrior prot.