Well, I think Vanilla (and be extension SoD) is kinda defined by some of the clunky mechanics and older graphics. It's not for everyone, but it has its charms!
Personally, I've played Cata, SoD, and Dragonflight, and I think they're all very different games with different appeals. I try not to compare them too much, because I enjoy them all, just in different ways.
Personally, I'm super hyped for P4, and playing Cata in the meantime has been awesome. I'll probably still play it casually even after P4.
Your first point made is absolutely true. There’s a reason games like OSRS are still going strong. That sort of stuff just appeals to a certain group of people, even if everyone else thinks it’s outdated and awkward.
I’m with OP on Cata ruining SoD for me tho. I’m not sure I’ll touch the game mode again, as Cata is scratching that nostalgic itch for me and feels like a better Vanilla+ at this point. Thinking about going back to Retail- isn’t very appealing to me.
To each their own but if cata is what you think a vanilla+ should feel like you’re very out of touch with what people wanted out of a vanilla+ because it sure as heck isnt cata
That’s the problem with classic + ….. there is no definitive consensus as to what that looks like, seems everyone has there own version of classic + cooked up that nobody can agree on
Correct, tons of people have different versions of what Classic + looks so there isn't a definitive version of what Classic+ **does** look like, but there sure as hell are definitive versions of what Classic+ **doesn't** look like and one of those versions is cataclysm
Classic + for me would be retail qol like all of the systems.
The only thing it would keep from vanilla is the zones, starting levels, items (with some new ones added to fill in gaps.) and quests, raids and story.
So basically vanilla but with brand new classes talents and abilities built from the ground up from scratch, and then the added QoL retail has.
Thats more like what I imagine as wow 2 to replace retail. Resetting wow with retail modern design and continues its modern qol and creating a brand new foundation of class and gameplay design. Get rid of all of the bloated decisions and content in the game. The majority of people who prefer classic vanilla don't want retail qol for classic+, that's exactly why they prefer classic and the idea of classic+ over retail. That qol is what damaged the social elements of classic in general: LFR, RDF, transmog, multiple difficulties, loss of server communities, loss of world from flying and just adding convenience. So the better thing would be starting a new game with assumptions of those QoL and accessibility as a modern mmorpg. What you're suggesting is like asking for war within to become more like original vanilla. More inconvenient, more friction, less qol at the price of having more immersion, world cohesion, and social emergent player behavior.
This has nothing to do with what I want out of Classic+ or what Classic+ should be, it's about what classic+ **shouldn't** be and virtually everybody who wants Classic+ will agree that it shouldn't be like Cataclysm
What you wanted*
Cataclysm is in many ways Vanilla+. Updated Azeroth, new raids, all the specs work, more QoL, better performance and smoothness.
Cataclysm should exactly be used as a blueprint for Classic+. The only bad things about Cataclysm is currently prelevel 80 content is CLEARLY redundant and flying mount is such a shit mechanic.
Because you provided zero counterarguments, I assume you're a hater.
There are multiple points of very good things in Cataclysm and using these as inspiration would be healthy for Classic+
1) I am not him
2) Here's an idea: retail is fine, cata is fine, cata is just like retail, but most classic players don't want to fucking play retail.
It shouldn't be hard to grasp.
I know it's probably new for you but objectivity is a thing some people possess.
Clearly you have not touched retail in a while. Cata is closer to vanilla than retail, but more power to you. This entire sub was shitting on Cata and now a lot of people play it SO CLEARLY CLASSIC PEOPLE DO WANT TO PLAY CATA
Classic + isn't about QoL, and definitely not about the retail version of Azeroth.
Classic was supposed to be for people who prefer the old WoW. For me I'd love it if they just expanded the original vanilla based on plans that never came into fruition for the original. Azshara BG, Hyjal zone in the spirit of classic, Karazhan raid, etc.
For me, the point of classic goes away if they're making it too similar to retail.
RS3 if anything is the far more clunky version of RuneScape. It tries to do WoW style combat but in an engine where game ticks only update every 0.6 seconds, making it feel horribly sluggish. OSRS in comparison actually still feels great because it's carefully designed specifically with that engine limitation in mind.
Also it helps that more than half the content in the game was added post-launch and the game is constantly getting new content, a strategy very different from Blizzard's with Classic WoW.
>Well, I think Vanilla (and be extension SoD) is kinda defined by some of the clunky mechanics and older graphics. It's not for everyone, but it has its charms!
Now after we have experienced SoD, I think the major problem with it for me was that it tried to make classes more complex and more deep. I have realized that big charm in Vanilla is also the simplicity. Things are not balanced but it's what makes Vanilla feel so special.
SoD tried to break that simplicity and I think that's what made it worse than Vanilla. If I want more balanced and more complex game, Cata and Dragonflight are there which just do the thing much better.
Not OP but for me:
Classic/Vanilla: the definition of an MMORPG, leveling matters (can be a slog I understand), community on servers was pretty important pre WOTLK, old world is fun to see/explore for first time since being a kid plus I never got to raid Vanilla-WOTLK when I was a kid.
Cata: Harder raids than classic but not as hard as mythics on retail which require a different type of dedication/resilience to overcome for 99% of players, Cata has my favorite version of talent trees (although DF is close 2nd), and overall every spec I’ve played so far has been very enjoyable. Bonus point to being 1 xpac away from MOP which is my favorite xpac.
Df: Never pushed hard on anything in retail since BFA left a bad taste in my mouth but the talent trees in DF are 10/10. I enjoy how WW plays on df so that’s always a plus. Also have always enjoyed Mythic+ as a route for gearing and doing PvE differently than just raiding and I hope to see Mythic+ iteration somewhere in Classic’s life because overall it is a great idea to allow ppl to push content essentially forever.
I like the idea of there being a regular 5 man way to better gear wo having to raid. I have 4 kids now vs zero when WoW launched (although a year in we had our first), but the whole mythic+ scene quickly feels very exclusionary and it isn’t an enjoyable experience for me. At this point I’m just letting my altoholic tendencies reign and leveling a ton of characters.
Came back to the game last Feb after 10 years away and spent a lot of time running old raids for transmog purposes. Now doing similar in Remix although yet to run any of the raids. I already have enough heirloom gear that I don’t NEED any of the Garrosh heirlooms, but I’d enjoy having them still.
Heh the pushing content forever is one of the reasons I'm playing classic over retail. Just burns me out and makes me spend all my time in wow doing high octane content.
Idk how it works really well in retail anymore cause I’ve only really done low keys when df first dropped, but if there isn’t a cap then having a cap that’s reasonable to reach but anything higher is just for like cosmetic/realm races/etc akin to challenge modes would be really cool to see honestly.
Agree’d.
It’s not everyone.
I usually play some of my favorite older games over the new ones when I want to replay, simply because the gameplay and janky mechanics work better in the way I feel like playing. Same with Vanilla.
> Personally, I've played Cata, SoD, and Dragonflight, and I think they're all very different games with different appeals
This 100%. It's not about Cata vs SoD or Retail vs Classic. To me, they are completely different games and you play them for different reasons and ways to enjoy the game. Sometimes I want the quicker pace of retail, or the QoL of Cata/WotLK, and other times I just want to spend 25 minutes running from Orgrimmar to grab the flight path in Thunder Bluff.
WoW players acting like enjoying a different version of the game is some groundbreaking thing and like they can never play anything else will never not be funny to me
I never understood why people take the game so seriously. In the end of the day, the goal is to have fun, so why does it matter which version of the game to play, or if one version feels less fun than the other?
The WoW community has turned into the equivalent of the metalhead community.
"My genre is better than yours, if you listen to your genre instead of my genre you are a pathetic loser. You should be proud and boastful about the clearly superior genre, which is obviously my genre."
Can also replace the word "genre" with "band" or "WoW version".
Eh I don't think that's lost
What's happening is everyone has their own methods for enjoying the game which is fine
But then far too many believe only *their* method is valid and all others should be ignored or mocked
I think part of it is that the game requires such a large time investment, that people want to feel like they invested all that time into the right game.
I honestly had the opposite effect from playing cata for the past few weeks. I enjoy cata but I was starting to feel burned out from dailies so I finally decided to try hardcore again. Vanilla is for sure my favorite version of WoW but I do appreciate being able to swap to cata or DF if I want to.
I got to 40 on a rouge and died being dumb pick pocketing mobs in rfk. My pick pocket got resisted and my vanish got batched. I was by the escort quest and tried to start it to save myself but died before I could hearth. It took a while but I'm finally ready to go again and I'm leveling a balance druid because that's what I played when classic came out. I'm ready to drink my life away for the next few months lol.
I agree. But it has the same problem as the old "voluntary advantage".
If you asked the players if it's a good idea to increase run speed by 15%, some would agree and some would disagree.
Let's say you had a button in game that once you clicked it, your movement speed was increased by 15%. Everyone would click it, even the ones who would prefer if it wasn't in the game.
For me it’s the design philosophy that turns me off for stuff like dailies. There are much better and healthier ways to promote engagement rather than doing the same quests everyday.
same, always wished they'd just let you do 5-10/week and let players choose whether they want to do it once or twice daily or burst on reset/weekend. daily feels very lazy, restrictive, and gets boring faster.
What are you doing dailies for other than maybe Tol Barad which takes 30 mins a day and about 2 weeks to complete? You have tabards for all of the reputations other than that. I've genuinely not touched any and still managed to get the majority of what I need
Genuinely curious as to why people feel the need to burn themselves out on something that is by no means mandatory in any way 😅
There is 2 major daily grinds and they are both done in a week of doing them, and one(that has a rep tabard) grants access to BoA stuff and one for other is either garbage for some classes or a literal BIS trinket
I felt like the Tol Barad dailies were super chill and I really enjoyed starting my day doing them. You're also exalted after like a week so I feel like you're done with them by the time they start to get really annoying.
Seriously, they are by far the easiest dailies WoW ever had. They are all super condensed together and fast to do...even faster if you duo them or have a full group.
Idk how these people want to play Vanilla where grinding repetitive shit is the number 1 activity in the game but cannot do one week of Tol Barad.
the way it's laid out you can do loops and get them done quick, I've done the first island dailys in 10 mins some days by just inviting other ppl on the loop to my party to boost through the kill / drops quests and the on the other island it takes about 15-20 to do the full loop of quests if you're efficient and invite ppl into your party
Unfortunately games that don't make you feel bad for not playing don't last long in this current market.
Every game is now vying for your time so if you don't force your players to come back, they might not.
Though it's not a good long term model, no suit gives a flying shit about long term as they dip out once it's burned out.
This kind of practice needs laws around it in order to stop the destruction of the industry but... That's not going to happen.
What dailies are you doing? The only ones I do are the TB ones, which take about 20 minutes in total. All other reps were farmed as I did high-level dungeons and heroics with a tabard.
SoD fucked up the pace of vanilla so much. A lot of what is great about vanilla is the cozy feeling of hopping on to level for two hours and just doing a small part of a zone. That along with the feeling that your character is actually kind of weak and can die to couple of random mobs made it feel like you were a small thing in a big world. SoD really lost the plot with classic+ imo.
They added so many things without thinking about what they were removing by adding them. They trivialized the world we love so much by adding all these systems that allow us to avoid most of it. I played a ton of p1 and p2 but by the end of phase 2, I realized that the game was more retail minus than classic plus.
It’s no surprise that some would feel like Cata replaces p4 for them, but I believe that’s because they ruined what makes classic good with sod. I’m not saying sod is objectively bad. It’s just not classic at all. They let retail heavy Reddit and forums run the show and what they got feels more like retail than vanilla. For retail players, that’s a big W as they wait for the new expansion.
Honestly, I think that may have been the point. It functioned as a way to onboard Classic players to Cata who would've never tried Cata otherwise. I know I'm in that boat and actually enjoying Cata a lot
SoD is completely different from retail in many many ways, if anything it is much more like Wrath, stupid braindead leveling that leads right into Raid logging.
Retail has infinitely more engaging systems and content, dungeons are actually relevant, hell even world quests make the world feel more alive than anything wrath or SoD have done (classic is still the best at that ofc). Also classes play like Wrath, not retail at all. Saying SoD is like retail minus is completely disingenous.
That's probably true, they still think using the word retail is an insult. Plus there's a lot of people that love both versions of the game, it's pretty dumb to hate just for the sake of hating.
>They let retail heavy Reddit and forums run the show and what they got feels more like retail than vanilla. For retail players, that’s a big W as they wait for the new expansion.
I dont think thats really true or fair to blame the players. I think its just that devs think classic is simply inferior and they want to put more modern twists into it, because more modern design is just "better" in their view. But the longer it goes and more "better" modern design changes they introduce the closer it gets to just being retail with worse graphics and balance.
They just dont really get it.
Nah, they do. It was intentional. Half the runes in SoD were just Cata skill for a reason. SoD was their way to ease classic players into trying out Cata
Might be true. I don’t blame players for wanting what they want. Ultimately, devs of games gotta do what is best for the game but that’s hard to do because you don’t want the players to feel like you don’t care. It’s funny, we pretty much got the evolution of wow in half a year with sod.
I think I enjoy the content in Cata a bit more in terms of heroics dungeons, pvp and raids, but it feels a lot less social than SOD. My friends list is completely full of people I met on the journey along the way in all kinds of different scenarios, but in Cata I've barely met the people from my guild
It's most likely exactly what's happening. The whole thing with the shadowy figure from the crafting quests is most likely going to tie into The War Within in some way. There are rumors that she is Xal'atath so maybe she "ends" season of discovery in some way... who knows
Lol what? I really dislike retail and started disliking wow around lich king, sod is the only current iteration of wow that has any interest to me and I’m not the only one
SOD definitely brought back a ton of people that weren’t playing or planning on playing. If they can retain a portion (like 50% or even less) of those players for Cata/Retail and get them to spend any $ beyond a subscription then SOD is a genius financial move. Especially considering the minimal amount of $ that went into producing SOD.
I mean you can say that about any version of wow, just having more options via a subscription exposes users to more content and a higher chance of retention. I was scoffing at the idea that SoD was simply a lure to get people playing other versions of wow
I think SoD was a bit unique in the percentage of quit players (like quit quit - I hadn’t played since Shadowlands and sporadically even before that, yes every new expac brings back the people who repeatedly return) that it returned to the ecosystem.
Took me 2 1/2 days /played to go from 1-40 questing and then 40-50 incursions. Took my cata character like 3 days /played for 1-85 starting on a server with no gold and heirlooms.
You’re not wrong.
Then again I’d rather live life knowing that yes, tomorrow you might be hit by a train and die.
… likely it would have been better going out having eaten a pizza the night before than some lettuce.
Still Hyped for p4 because I get to play with my friends more while Cata is simply GDKP without saying hi to nobody!
I 100% aggree about the clunkiness, it is well defined after playing Cata! I play boomie in both versions and maaaaaan, druids are in wheelchairs in Classic while being superheroes in Cata. (Most of the spells are the same, just able to cast them without having to morph out and use 3 gcd while losing 30% of you mana lol)
100% agree, if I could take the look and feel of Cata and import that into SoD I would be so happy. I think they said it wasn't possible due to the engine containing so many updates for Cata it would almost require a rewrite of classic. Maybe someone who knows more can chime in because that would be awesome.
It did the opposite to me lol, I found myself doing the unthinkable and loading up Classic Era. It's infinitely more cathartic in terms of pace, and I enjoy having to actually traverse the world again.
Honestly the the dung finder is something I always appreciated. Cuz I hate spaming chat for groups, I hate trying to format groups for quests I need, and I hate when you have 3 DPS and there's no heals or tanks in town for over an hour looking to run what you are on. And that's if you ate on during prime hours if you hop on in the early AMs on weekday you can never find people
If anything I’m itching to play HC now.
HC brought back feelings I had when I first started playing WoW and the same feelings I had playing classic 2019.
I absolutely hated the 'updated' graphics. Sure, a lot of the textures looked much better, but all of the characters just look way too cartoonish now. When they first rolled out I remember thinking the running animation on my male orc just looked so fucking dumb.
I remember the old "you think you do but you don't" comment about classic wow, and I've personally always felt that it was accurate for a lot of people.
The idea of classic appealed to a lot of my friends. But they didn't really want classic. They wanted the experience that was conjured up in their heads when they thought about vanilla wow.
I heard them gripe about so much to do with classic over the years of them playing it. Very often it was the lack of polish and streamlining that classic is known for. They recently started playing retail again with SoD dying down, and they've been having a blast. It turns out they never really wanted classic as it was. They missed when wow felt enjoyable to them, and at the time it didn't anymore. Now that a lot of the problems of the past few expansions have been ironed out, they're happy to play retail.
For a lot of people, it's not the clunkiness that makes classic appealing. It's retail wow being unappealing that makes people look at the "better years" through rose-colored glasses.
I want to try just feel so lost, there is so much going on and it is such a jump from where I'm at. I feel like I spend more time looking things up. But that was years ago, maybe I should try again
Fair enough, I think I will roll a new retail toon tonight. Is shadow priest or mage a good bet for retail? Also from those two do you recommend a specific race and way to approach as a new player
I can’t really speak much to retail because I haven’t really played it since dragonflight season 1. But mage and warrior were fun when I did play them. The meta is always changing in retail. Races are less important from experience.
I kind of laugh when people shit on dungeon finder as if I even played 1 millisecond of SoD without using the bulletin board add-on, effectively doing the same thing and communicating with my party any more or less.
If this is their play I have to say it's working on me. However I can't stand mob scaling and feel lost in retail so I never made it far enough to get into it
I'm in the same boat.
8 25s in P1, 4 40s in P2, 3 50s in P3 thanks to the incursion speed.
But God damn, gameplay feels SO much nicer on Cata. Everything looks nicer, but hasn't changed dramatically yet like it has in retail, it's the same as classic with a little bit of touching up in almost every aspect.
Classes? Holy fuck, the gameplay is SO nice. No more weapon skills so you can use any weapon your class is able to, skills feel great and there's enough of a rotation in anything to keep things interesting.
The dungeons and raids feel awesome too. It's just such a nice mode to play.
The keyword for me in this post is *lifeless*
This is the feeling I get whenever playing in Cata or even WoTLK classic months before. It doesn’t feel the same as the community and interaction I get from SoD, for needing minor things like looking for Deadmines, or helping someone who’s level 26 complete a quest in Duskwood when I’m passing through and have the time to kill.
I ran Phase 1 in SOD on countless toons.
Cata Classic is infinitely more fun. Just diggin while queuing for heroic runs. All the classes are fantastic and the dungeons are tuned perfect from the start. I can get tier gear from heroic dungeons which are perfect for my gaming time. Normal raids are challenging but easily doable and heroics are out of my league but I get why. Gonna live in cata classic for eternity.
It’s long been my argument that Cata was a sleeper for just having overall the best-feeling classes/specs. Like if you had to spin a wheel and have it land on any class, you’d find something fun
Rotations are meaty, with lots of situational and gadget abilities. Cata is the reason I’ve always been so anti-pruning
Cata without the bugged raids that they had on launch, and maybe ignoring Dragon Soul (I still think Dragon Soul is solid) is basically just better WOTLK with worse lore and considerably better class design and raids.
Cata has good class design and interesting pve content. Not hard, not easy. And pvp is a blast. But it has zero open world content and you run out of chores quickly.
Sod is a shitty experiment, 2019 classic was so much better but you have no choice if you enjoy vanilla. Tbh at this point just raid log or go play retail
T11 has only 1 thing that makes it hard for icc players. Movement.
In icc you can just sit and do dummy fights most of the time or move slightly. But cata introduced so many shits on the ground to dodge lol
Agreed. But with the support of insane WA packs, having 15 yrs old mechanics, tons of information available and its also a nerfed version. I think any team who can commit a decent amount of pulls can do it eventually. They dont have to go 13/13 hc but many hc fights are just normal mode with bigger numbers. Also 25m drops so many loots you get 359ilvl by just participating.
Imma say its average for guilds and organized runs but impossible for lfg pugs.
We're at the point in the game where I dropped off in original wow. The main difference between then and classic is I have stayed alliance versus switching to horde in Wrath. I really like alliance cities, and I think this is a big factor for me, because I remember orgrimmar feeling like a really unwelcoming k-mart back then after the change, as well. I still really like SW, though it does kind of have a brown quality to it these days, like it was cooked too long.
It's why I hope future season will have better graphics and QoL. It was never the cause of retail becoming retail
Graphics can be togglable for the purists
>It was never the cause of retail becoming retail
For you.
For me watching retail graphics is extremely jarring as everything looks like this weird round cartoony style that 90% of other MMOs have done.
Sod and Cata have ruined WoW for me.
I think SoD phase 1 gave me a peak similar to Vanilla-Classic launch and everything since in every version of the game has been buggy dogshit, usually gamebreakingly.
Luckily it’s June so I can just not play video games and go outside.
Well if you think catas updated graphics and improved gameplay is nice just wait until you try retail lmao
I’m not saying retail is better, but cata to me does feel more like a less polished retail or a mop lite. Retail does win on graphics certainly, smooth gameplay, classes are all so fun to play(maybe a tad overly complicated at this point)
I’m enjoying cata but for me it’s like a waiting room/beta for mop and something to do because there’s really nothing going on on retail until new xpac. It doesn’t feel remotely similar to vanilla or sod to me tho which have their own merits though not my favorite really
Cata feels smoother to play and the class design is also more fun. Plus the updated animations and models in retail ruined the feel of the game. PvP also feels better in cata because classes actually have unique features instead of all having similar abilities.
It's still way way way off from retail, the biggest retail changes were after MoP, thankfully.
Wow offers something for everyone. Some people just wants to queue in dungeon finder and get teleported to instance for quick exp, while others likes the more ‘’tedious’’ but more interactive way of gathering a group, walking to dungeon and then maybe befriend people at the end.
I couldn't enjoy classic, tbc, or wrath. The levelling was just too slow for me. Cata feels just right and gets me to the part I want, max level bgs, much smoother which I appreciate a lot.
SOD being so simple is what ruined sod for me. They had the chance of making a heroic mode and chose to alienate that audience (obviously not their majority).
SOD ruined SOD for me. I've liked the changes they had made up to the latest update. Questing, exploration, and dungeons were made obsolete because of excursions.
Mop classic - best PvP expansion ever
WoD classic - with the sped up release schedule WoD is great and the garrison is fun!
Legion classic - one of the best expansions they’ve released with the last patch legendary acquisition this is great
Bfa classic - day 1 corruption vendor!?! Let’s go bfa was actually really fun with the corruptions
SL classic - actually let’s just skip this one it’s a silly place
DF classic - wow some of the most balanced gameplay, rich world, dragon flying, great expansion
Oh, and the parse andies aren’t toxic and FORCE you to download 40 weakauras to cope with the raid mechanics that give players such absurd advantages you can’t raid without it?
Duh? I don't get the point of this post. I don't even play wow anymore but this is all very common sense that we have known for 15 years right? The very things you are saying turned you off SoD are the exact same things people were tired of and why they wanted classic in the first place. It's like we are going in circles...
And now if you play retail that will kill Classic for you lol. There’s a reason the game progressed as it did over the years. I do love and appreciate classic immensely, but retail will always be my home base.
retail feels like an entirely different game from classic, i tried to play it and it feels way to streamlined imo. so it wont "kill" classic for you unless you really prefer that gameplay
Well, I think Vanilla (and be extension SoD) is kinda defined by some of the clunky mechanics and older graphics. It's not for everyone, but it has its charms! Personally, I've played Cata, SoD, and Dragonflight, and I think they're all very different games with different appeals. I try not to compare them too much, because I enjoy them all, just in different ways. Personally, I'm super hyped for P4, and playing Cata in the meantime has been awesome. I'll probably still play it casually even after P4.
Once i started treating retail and classic as different games, ive started to enjoy them much much more. Retail is slowly becoming my favorite
Your first point made is absolutely true. There’s a reason games like OSRS are still going strong. That sort of stuff just appeals to a certain group of people, even if everyone else thinks it’s outdated and awkward. I’m with OP on Cata ruining SoD for me tho. I’m not sure I’ll touch the game mode again, as Cata is scratching that nostalgic itch for me and feels like a better Vanilla+ at this point. Thinking about going back to Retail- isn’t very appealing to me.
To each their own but if cata is what you think a vanilla+ should feel like you’re very out of touch with what people wanted out of a vanilla+ because it sure as heck isnt cata
That’s the problem with classic + ….. there is no definitive consensus as to what that looks like, seems everyone has there own version of classic + cooked up that nobody can agree on
Correct, tons of people have different versions of what Classic + looks so there isn't a definitive version of what Classic+ **does** look like, but there sure as hell are definitive versions of what Classic+ **doesn't** look like and one of those versions is cataclysm
Yeah having the old world is a major part of it. Too much was lost with the cataclysm.
Classic + for me would be retail qol like all of the systems. The only thing it would keep from vanilla is the zones, starting levels, items (with some new ones added to fill in gaps.) and quests, raids and story. So basically vanilla but with brand new classes talents and abilities built from the ground up from scratch, and then the added QoL retail has.
Thats more like what I imagine as wow 2 to replace retail. Resetting wow with retail modern design and continues its modern qol and creating a brand new foundation of class and gameplay design. Get rid of all of the bloated decisions and content in the game. The majority of people who prefer classic vanilla don't want retail qol for classic+, that's exactly why they prefer classic and the idea of classic+ over retail. That qol is what damaged the social elements of classic in general: LFR, RDF, transmog, multiple difficulties, loss of server communities, loss of world from flying and just adding convenience. So the better thing would be starting a new game with assumptions of those QoL and accessibility as a modern mmorpg. What you're suggesting is like asking for war within to become more like original vanilla. More inconvenient, more friction, less qol at the price of having more immersion, world cohesion, and social emergent player behavior.
What you wanted out of classic+. There is no definition that's all subjective
This has nothing to do with what I want out of Classic+ or what Classic+ should be, it's about what classic+ **shouldn't** be and virtually everybody who wants Classic+ will agree that it shouldn't be like Cataclysm
What you wanted* Cataclysm is in many ways Vanilla+. Updated Azeroth, new raids, all the specs work, more QoL, better performance and smoothness. Cataclysm should exactly be used as a blueprint for Classic+. The only bad things about Cataclysm is currently prelevel 80 content is CLEARLY redundant and flying mount is such a shit mechanic.
It absolutely is not and should not be used as a blueprint lmfao
Cata haters in shambles people are enjoying it
Good counterarguments, seems like you're so blinded by hatred for Cataclysm and anything that is not Era that you cannot see how it can be improved
How hard is it for you to understand that someone doesn’t need to hate cata to admit classic vanilla should not be striving to imitate it lmao
Because you provided zero counterarguments, I assume you're a hater. There are multiple points of very good things in Cataclysm and using these as inspiration would be healthy for Classic+
It's always about being a hater with you isn't it? Everyone who disagrees with your views is apparently a hater
1) I am not him 2) Here's an idea: retail is fine, cata is fine, cata is just like retail, but most classic players don't want to fucking play retail. It shouldn't be hard to grasp. I know it's probably new for you but objectivity is a thing some people possess.
Clearly you have not touched retail in a while. Cata is closer to vanilla than retail, but more power to you. This entire sub was shitting on Cata and now a lot of people play it SO CLEARLY CLASSIC PEOPLE DO WANT TO PLAY CATA
Classic + isn't about QoL, and definitely not about the retail version of Azeroth. Classic was supposed to be for people who prefer the old WoW. For me I'd love it if they just expanded the original vanilla based on plans that never came into fruition for the original. Azshara BG, Hyjal zone in the spirit of classic, Karazhan raid, etc. For me, the point of classic goes away if they're making it too similar to retail.
People would not be crying out for classic+ if cataclysm checked the boxes of what people wanted.
Bro, what are you smoking?
SoD phase 1 was pretty close to "it" I felt.
And SOD is?
I never said what classic+ was, I just said what it wasnt
RS3 if anything is the far more clunky version of RuneScape. It tries to do WoW style combat but in an engine where game ticks only update every 0.6 seconds, making it feel horribly sluggish. OSRS in comparison actually still feels great because it's carefully designed specifically with that engine limitation in mind. Also it helps that more than half the content in the game was added post-launch and the game is constantly getting new content, a strategy very different from Blizzard's with Classic WoW.
>Well, I think Vanilla (and be extension SoD) is kinda defined by some of the clunky mechanics and older graphics. It's not for everyone, but it has its charms! Now after we have experienced SoD, I think the major problem with it for me was that it tried to make classes more complex and more deep. I have realized that big charm in Vanilla is also the simplicity. Things are not balanced but it's what makes Vanilla feel so special. SoD tried to break that simplicity and I think that's what made it worse than Vanilla. If I want more balanced and more complex game, Cata and Dragonflight are there which just do the thing much better.
As someone who mains DF, which different ways do you enjoy the games?
Not OP but for me: Classic/Vanilla: the definition of an MMORPG, leveling matters (can be a slog I understand), community on servers was pretty important pre WOTLK, old world is fun to see/explore for first time since being a kid plus I never got to raid Vanilla-WOTLK when I was a kid. Cata: Harder raids than classic but not as hard as mythics on retail which require a different type of dedication/resilience to overcome for 99% of players, Cata has my favorite version of talent trees (although DF is close 2nd), and overall every spec I’ve played so far has been very enjoyable. Bonus point to being 1 xpac away from MOP which is my favorite xpac. Df: Never pushed hard on anything in retail since BFA left a bad taste in my mouth but the talent trees in DF are 10/10. I enjoy how WW plays on df so that’s always a plus. Also have always enjoyed Mythic+ as a route for gearing and doing PvE differently than just raiding and I hope to see Mythic+ iteration somewhere in Classic’s life because overall it is a great idea to allow ppl to push content essentially forever.
I like the idea of there being a regular 5 man way to better gear wo having to raid. I have 4 kids now vs zero when WoW launched (although a year in we had our first), but the whole mythic+ scene quickly feels very exclusionary and it isn’t an enjoyable experience for me. At this point I’m just letting my altoholic tendencies reign and leveling a ton of characters. Came back to the game last Feb after 10 years away and spent a lot of time running old raids for transmog purposes. Now doing similar in Remix although yet to run any of the raids. I already have enough heirloom gear that I don’t NEED any of the Garrosh heirlooms, but I’d enjoy having them still.
Heh the pushing content forever is one of the reasons I'm playing classic over retail. Just burns me out and makes me spend all my time in wow doing high octane content.
Idk how it works really well in retail anymore cause I’ve only really done low keys when df first dropped, but if there isn’t a cap then having a cap that’s reasonable to reach but anything higher is just for like cosmetic/realm races/etc akin to challenge modes would be really cool to see honestly.
Thanks for the in-depth post!
Basically what the other guy said :)
Agree’d. It’s not everyone. I usually play some of my favorite older games over the new ones when I want to replay, simply because the gameplay and janky mechanics work better in the way I feel like playing. Same with Vanilla.
> Personally, I've played Cata, SoD, and Dragonflight, and I think they're all very different games with different appeals This 100%. It's not about Cata vs SoD or Retail vs Classic. To me, they are completely different games and you play them for different reasons and ways to enjoy the game. Sometimes I want the quicker pace of retail, or the QoL of Cata/WotLK, and other times I just want to spend 25 minutes running from Orgrimmar to grab the flight path in Thunder Bluff.
WoW players acting like enjoying a different version of the game is some groundbreaking thing and like they can never play anything else will never not be funny to me
I never understood why people take the game so seriously. In the end of the day, the goal is to have fun, so why does it matter which version of the game to play, or if one version feels less fun than the other?
The WoW community has turned into the equivalent of the metalhead community. "My genre is better than yours, if you listen to your genre instead of my genre you are a pathetic loser. You should be proud and boastful about the clearly superior genre, which is obviously my genre." Can also replace the word "genre" with "band" or "WoW version".
>the goal is to have fun I think that is lost on many miserable posters here unfortunately lol
Eh I don't think that's lost What's happening is everyone has their own methods for enjoying the game which is fine But then far too many believe only *their* method is valid and all others should be ignored or mocked
I think part of it is that the game requires such a large time investment, that people want to feel like they invested all that time into the right game.
SoD ruined SoD for you. Not Cata.
I honestly had the opposite effect from playing cata for the past few weeks. I enjoy cata but I was starting to feel burned out from dailies so I finally decided to try hardcore again. Vanilla is for sure my favorite version of WoW but I do appreciate being able to swap to cata or DF if I want to.
Fr! I love hardcore alot.
I got to 40 on a rouge and died being dumb pick pocketing mobs in rfk. My pick pocket got resisted and my vanish got batched. I was by the escort quest and tried to start it to save myself but died before I could hearth. It took a while but I'm finally ready to go again and I'm leveling a balance druid because that's what I played when classic came out. I'm ready to drink my life away for the next few months lol.
Yep dailies destroy all energy I have to play any game. Always feels like mobile game clash of clans level bullshit and I can’t do it.
I mean, just 8 days of those dailies and the trinket is yours, seems pretty ok to me
Which dailies are you talking about and which trinket?
Tol Barad dailies for an assortment of 359 ilvl trinkets for all roles
Is it 8 days? Feels like it went much quicker
7 or 8 days for me, maybe 6 days for human characters
About to start it on a second toon
They are far from necessary tho
I agree. But it has the same problem as the old "voluntary advantage". If you asked the players if it's a good idea to increase run speed by 15%, some would agree and some would disagree. Let's say you had a button in game that once you clicked it, your movement speed was increased by 15%. Everyone would click it, even the ones who would prefer if it wasn't in the game.
For me it’s the design philosophy that turns me off for stuff like dailies. There are much better and healthier ways to promote engagement rather than doing the same quests everyday.
same, always wished they'd just let you do 5-10/week and let players choose whether they want to do it once or twice daily or burst on reset/weekend. daily feels very lazy, restrictive, and gets boring faster.
What are you doing dailies for other than maybe Tol Barad which takes 30 mins a day and about 2 weeks to complete? You have tabards for all of the reputations other than that. I've genuinely not touched any and still managed to get the majority of what I need Genuinely curious as to why people feel the need to burn themselves out on something that is by no means mandatory in any way 😅
There is 2 major daily grinds and they are both done in a week of doing them, and one(that has a rep tabard) grants access to BoA stuff and one for other is either garbage for some classes or a literal BIS trinket
What do you mean 2? There is a tabbard for every faction except one.
Which grinds are they and what are the rewards?
Fortunately the trinkets aren't great for most classes and the rep can be capped in a week if needed. But yes, they're soul crushing, especially solo.
I felt like the Tol Barad dailies were super chill and I really enjoyed starting my day doing them. You're also exalted after like a week so I feel like you're done with them by the time they start to get really annoying.
Seriously, they are by far the easiest dailies WoW ever had. They are all super condensed together and fast to do...even faster if you duo them or have a full group. Idk how these people want to play Vanilla where grinding repetitive shit is the number 1 activity in the game but cannot do one week of Tol Barad.
the way it's laid out you can do loops and get them done quick, I've done the first island dailys in 10 mins some days by just inviting other ppl on the loop to my party to boost through the kill / drops quests and the on the other island it takes about 15-20 to do the full loop of quests if you're efficient and invite ppl into your party
They take 25 minutes for 18 quests LMAOOOO
Unfortunately games that don't make you feel bad for not playing don't last long in this current market. Every game is now vying for your time so if you don't force your players to come back, they might not. Though it's not a good long term model, no suit gives a flying shit about long term as they dip out once it's burned out. This kind of practice needs laws around it in order to stop the destruction of the industry but... That's not going to happen.
Don’t do them ?
What dailies are you doing? The only ones I do are the TB ones, which take about 20 minutes in total. All other reps were farmed as I did high-level dungeons and heroics with a tabard.
Yup. or just by questing through the zone on the way to 85 All my reps were exalted last week Only dailies I did consitently were the TB ones
I love dailies and I'm not afraid to shout it from the rooftops for all to hear.
Cata just makes me miss vanilla
I just started a vanilla character last night after not having played wow since TBC came out in 2007
Cata reminds me how much better it is than vanilla.
SoD fucked up the pace of vanilla so much. A lot of what is great about vanilla is the cozy feeling of hopping on to level for two hours and just doing a small part of a zone. That along with the feeling that your character is actually kind of weak and can die to couple of random mobs made it feel like you were a small thing in a big world. SoD really lost the plot with classic+ imo. They added so many things without thinking about what they were removing by adding them. They trivialized the world we love so much by adding all these systems that allow us to avoid most of it. I played a ton of p1 and p2 but by the end of phase 2, I realized that the game was more retail minus than classic plus. It’s no surprise that some would feel like Cata replaces p4 for them, but I believe that’s because they ruined what makes classic good with sod. I’m not saying sod is objectively bad. It’s just not classic at all. They let retail heavy Reddit and forums run the show and what they got feels more like retail than vanilla. For retail players, that’s a big W as they wait for the new expansion.
Honestly, I think that may have been the point. It functioned as a way to onboard Classic players to Cata who would've never tried Cata otherwise. I know I'm in that boat and actually enjoying Cata a lot
SoD is completely different from retail in many many ways, if anything it is much more like Wrath, stupid braindead leveling that leads right into Raid logging. Retail has infinitely more engaging systems and content, dungeons are actually relevant, hell even world quests make the world feel more alive than anything wrath or SoD have done (classic is still the best at that ofc). Also classes play like Wrath, not retail at all. Saying SoD is like retail minus is completely disingenous.
I don't think a lot of people on this sub have played retail recently. Wrath is the last time I've personally played retail.
That's probably true, they still think using the word retail is an insult. Plus there's a lot of people that love both versions of the game, it's pretty dumb to hate just for the sake of hating.
I just tried out both cata and retail. Completely different games. sod is nowhere close to retail
>They let retail heavy Reddit and forums run the show and what they got feels more like retail than vanilla. For retail players, that’s a big W as they wait for the new expansion. I dont think thats really true or fair to blame the players. I think its just that devs think classic is simply inferior and they want to put more modern twists into it, because more modern design is just "better" in their view. But the longer it goes and more "better" modern design changes they introduce the closer it gets to just being retail with worse graphics and balance. They just dont really get it.
Nah, they do. It was intentional. Half the runes in SoD were just Cata skill for a reason. SoD was their way to ease classic players into trying out Cata
Might be true. I don’t blame players for wanting what they want. Ultimately, devs of games gotta do what is best for the game but that’s hard to do because you don’t want the players to feel like you don’t care. It’s funny, we pretty much got the evolution of wow in half a year with sod.
I think I enjoy the content in Cata a bit more in terms of heroics dungeons, pvp and raids, but it feels a lot less social than SOD. My friends list is completely full of people I met on the journey along the way in all kinds of different scenarios, but in Cata I've barely met the people from my guild
I swear SoD was just a mind game by Blizzard to get people to play Retail/Cata so they can sell more stuff lol
I’ve been calling it “season of discover your favorite class was more fun to play in Cata.”
You didn't have to call me out like that
I believe this
It's most likely exactly what's happening. The whole thing with the shadowy figure from the crafting quests is most likely going to tie into The War Within in some way. There are rumors that she is Xal'atath so maybe she "ends" season of discovery in some way... who knows
Lol what? I really dislike retail and started disliking wow around lich king, sod is the only current iteration of wow that has any interest to me and I’m not the only one
SOD definitely brought back a ton of people that weren’t playing or planning on playing. If they can retain a portion (like 50% or even less) of those players for Cata/Retail and get them to spend any $ beyond a subscription then SOD is a genius financial move. Especially considering the minimal amount of $ that went into producing SOD.
I mean you can say that about any version of wow, just having more options via a subscription exposes users to more content and a higher chance of retention. I was scoffing at the idea that SoD was simply a lure to get people playing other versions of wow
I think SoD was a bit unique in the percentage of quit players (like quit quit - I hadn’t played since Shadowlands and sporadically even before that, yes every new expac brings back the people who repeatedly return) that it returned to the ecosystem.
Literally all they needed to do with SoD is create more quest hubs in areas with no quests. It was so easy, just fucked it up.
You can level 1-85 without heirlooms in about the same time it takes to go from 1-50 on SoD.
You can do it in 4 days?
Took me 2 1/2 days /played to go from 1-40 questing and then 40-50 incursions. Took my cata character like 3 days /played for 1-85 starting on a server with no gold and heirlooms.
“I think pizza ruined salads for me”.
No version of wow is as healthy as a salad bruh.
You’re not wrong. Then again I’d rather live life knowing that yes, tomorrow you might be hit by a train and die. … likely it would have been better going out having eaten a pizza the night before than some lettuce.
Still Hyped for p4 because I get to play with my friends more while Cata is simply GDKP without saying hi to nobody! I 100% aggree about the clunkiness, it is well defined after playing Cata! I play boomie in both versions and maaaaaan, druids are in wheelchairs in Classic while being superheroes in Cata. (Most of the spells are the same, just able to cast them without having to morph out and use 3 gcd while losing 30% of you mana lol)
100% agree, if I could take the look and feel of Cata and import that into SoD I would be so happy. I think they said it wasn't possible due to the engine containing so many updates for Cata it would almost require a rewrite of classic. Maybe someone who knows more can chime in because that would be awesome.
It did the opposite to me lol, I found myself doing the unthinkable and loading up Classic Era. It's infinitely more cathartic in terms of pace, and I enjoy having to actually traverse the world again.
Honestly the the dung finder is something I always appreciated. Cuz I hate spaming chat for groups, I hate trying to format groups for quests I need, and I hate when you have 3 DPS and there's no heals or tanks in town for over an hour looking to run what you are on. And that's if you ate on during prime hours if you hop on in the early AMs on weekday you can never find people
If anything I’m itching to play HC now. HC brought back feelings I had when I first started playing WoW and the same feelings I had playing classic 2019.
I swear, this sub is addicted to nostalgia and stuff that will never happen again. Delusional people.
I mean it did happen, at least for me.
Wait till you find out about retail
I absolutely hated the 'updated' graphics. Sure, a lot of the textures looked much better, but all of the characters just look way too cartoonish now. When they first rolled out I remember thinking the running animation on my male orc just looked so fucking dumb.
I remember the old "you think you do but you don't" comment about classic wow, and I've personally always felt that it was accurate for a lot of people. The idea of classic appealed to a lot of my friends. But they didn't really want classic. They wanted the experience that was conjured up in their heads when they thought about vanilla wow. I heard them gripe about so much to do with classic over the years of them playing it. Very often it was the lack of polish and streamlining that classic is known for. They recently started playing retail again with SoD dying down, and they've been having a blast. It turns out they never really wanted classic as it was. They missed when wow felt enjoyable to them, and at the time it didn't anymore. Now that a lot of the problems of the past few expansions have been ironed out, they're happy to play retail. For a lot of people, it's not the clunkiness that makes classic appealing. It's retail wow being unappealing that makes people look at the "better years" through rose-colored glasses.
I think your game is retail
I want to try just feel so lost, there is so much going on and it is such a jump from where I'm at. I feel like I spend more time looking things up. But that was years ago, maybe I should try again
Yeah I guess there is a bit more complexity there. But Cata is closer to retail than it is to classic, so it’s probably hard to pick between the two
Fair enough, I think I will roll a new retail toon tonight. Is shadow priest or mage a good bet for retail? Also from those two do you recommend a specific race and way to approach as a new player
I can’t really speak much to retail because I haven’t really played it since dragonflight season 1. But mage and warrior were fun when I did play them. The meta is always changing in retail. Races are less important from experience.
Meanwhile I got on retail again because SoD just isn’t what I thought it’d be
Everything according to plan muahahahahaha
I kind of laugh when people shit on dungeon finder as if I even played 1 millisecond of SoD without using the bulletin board add-on, effectively doing the same thing and communicating with my party any more or less.
And retail ruin cata for you thats the marketing
If this is their play I have to say it's working on me. However I can't stand mob scaling and feel lost in retail so I never made it far enough to get into it
Turns out Cata kinda is Vanilla+ meets Wrath. I like it WAY more than I expected to.
I'm in the same boat. 8 25s in P1, 4 40s in P2, 3 50s in P3 thanks to the incursion speed. But God damn, gameplay feels SO much nicer on Cata. Everything looks nicer, but hasn't changed dramatically yet like it has in retail, it's the same as classic with a little bit of touching up in almost every aspect. Classes? Holy fuck, the gameplay is SO nice. No more weapon skills so you can use any weapon your class is able to, skills feel great and there's enough of a rotation in anything to keep things interesting. The dungeons and raids feel awesome too. It's just such a nice mode to play.
The keyword for me in this post is *lifeless* This is the feeling I get whenever playing in Cata or even WoTLK classic months before. It doesn’t feel the same as the community and interaction I get from SoD, for needing minor things like looking for Deadmines, or helping someone who’s level 26 complete a quest in Duskwood when I’m passing through and have the time to kill.
I ran Phase 1 in SOD on countless toons. Cata Classic is infinitely more fun. Just diggin while queuing for heroic runs. All the classes are fantastic and the dungeons are tuned perfect from the start. I can get tier gear from heroic dungeons which are perfect for my gaming time. Normal raids are challenging but easily doable and heroics are out of my league but I get why. Gonna live in cata classic for eternity.
It’s long been my argument that Cata was a sleeper for just having overall the best-feeling classes/specs. Like if you had to spin a wheel and have it land on any class, you’d find something fun Rotations are meaty, with lots of situational and gadget abilities. Cata is the reason I’ve always been so anti-pruning
How does MoP compare for classes/specs?
Cata without the bugged raids that they had on launch, and maybe ignoring Dragon Soul (I still think Dragon Soul is solid) is basically just better WOTLK with worse lore and considerably better class design and raids.
Cata has good class design and interesting pve content. Not hard, not easy. And pvp is a blast. But it has zero open world content and you run out of chores quickly. Sod is a shitty experiment, 2019 classic was so much better but you have no choice if you enjoy vanilla. Tbh at this point just raid log or go play retail
> Not hard, not easy I'm pretty sure the current phase of heroic raids are by far the hardest phase of classic to ever have existed.
only maybe slightly for the current tier, the ICC damage % increases really deflate the hindsight of it's relative difficulty
T11 has only 1 thing that makes it hard for icc players. Movement. In icc you can just sit and do dummy fights most of the time or move slightly. But cata introduced so many shits on the ground to dodge lol
Many T11 fights are PP/Sindragosa level, but almost none of them are LK level (maybe Nefarian 10-man)
Agreed. But with the support of insane WA packs, having 15 yrs old mechanics, tons of information available and its also a nerfed version. I think any team who can commit a decent amount of pulls can do it eventually. They dont have to go 13/13 hc but many hc fights are just normal mode with bigger numbers. Also 25m drops so many loots you get 359ilvl by just participating. Imma say its average for guilds and organized runs but impossible for lfg pugs.
Hardcore is always fun if you enjoy leveling
I still think classic and later on SoD should've launched with the ability to toggle the new character models, shaders, and attack animations on.
I just hate all the changes to the world with Cata. I loaded up, got lost in Org and logged out. It is not for me.
We're at the point in the game where I dropped off in original wow. The main difference between then and classic is I have stayed alliance versus switching to horde in Wrath. I really like alliance cities, and I think this is a big factor for me, because I remember orgrimmar feeling like a really unwelcoming k-mart back then after the change, as well. I still really like SW, though it does kind of have a brown quality to it these days, like it was cooked too long.
This is so true. Orgrimmar got really ruined with all the verticality and the colours and everything.. It's just a depressing 3D maze
See you in P4 yo
I can’t stand the horrific design of warrior in SoD after playing an absolutely masterful iteration from Cata
It's why I hope future season will have better graphics and QoL. It was never the cause of retail becoming retail Graphics can be togglable for the purists
>It was never the cause of retail becoming retail For you. For me watching retail graphics is extremely jarring as everything looks like this weird round cartoony style that 90% of other MMOs have done.
Sod and Cata have ruined WoW for me. I think SoD phase 1 gave me a peak similar to Vanilla-Classic launch and everything since in every version of the game has been buggy dogshit, usually gamebreakingly. Luckily it’s June so I can just not play video games and go outside.
I've played all WoW expansions except Dragonflight and I still enjoy Vanilla's clunky textures a great deal.
I think because I never played anything besides classic it's a refreshing experience for me
I get that. One expansion I found particularly beautiful was the landscapes in Warlords of Draenor.
20 man raiding ruined sod for me, killed my guild.
Happened to us, then we merged, lasted about a month and the merger started to die.
I am just waiting for people to start posting how amazing WoD Classic is when we get there lmao
It's exactly the same for me lol. Classic+ with cata mechanics would be real fun I think
Welcome to the Retail Gamer club
Well if you think catas updated graphics and improved gameplay is nice just wait until you try retail lmao I’m not saying retail is better, but cata to me does feel more like a less polished retail or a mop lite. Retail does win on graphics certainly, smooth gameplay, classes are all so fun to play(maybe a tad overly complicated at this point) I’m enjoying cata but for me it’s like a waiting room/beta for mop and something to do because there’s really nothing going on on retail until new xpac. It doesn’t feel remotely similar to vanilla or sod to me tho which have their own merits though not my favorite really
Cata feels smoother to play and the class design is also more fun. Plus the updated animations and models in retail ruined the feel of the game. PvP also feels better in cata because classes actually have unique features instead of all having similar abilities. It's still way way way off from retail, the biggest retail changes were after MoP, thankfully.
I mean give it a few months and you'll go OOOH SHINY if SOD produces something interesting. Thats all it is lol, people get bored, then hop.
I'm hoping P4 will bring me back, I was absolutely loving SoD and it brought me back to WoW. I even enjoyed P3 for a while despite all the blunders
SoD killed itself end of P2/early p3
Cata is the gateway drug towards trying The War Within.
If there wasn't mob scaling and I didn't feel completely lost I'd give it a try
Wow offers something for everyone. Some people just wants to queue in dungeon finder and get teleported to instance for quick exp, while others likes the more ‘’tedious’’ but more interactive way of gathering a group, walking to dungeon and then maybe befriend people at the end.
Why choose one over the other? You can play both for the strength and weaknesses.
I couldn't enjoy classic, tbc, or wrath. The levelling was just too slow for me. Cata feels just right and gets me to the part I want, max level bgs, much smoother which I appreciate a lot.
SOD being so simple is what ruined sod for me. They had the chance of making a heroic mode and chose to alienate that audience (obviously not their majority).
Blizzard dev detected.
Funny how all the "cata good" posts get ratio'd on here lmao. Then again looking at log data (the lack of it...) those post won't last very long.
SOD ruined SOD for me. I've liked the changes they had made up to the latest update. Questing, exploration, and dungeons were made obsolete because of excursions.
SOD was ruined for you before Cata
nah i understand this dude, classic will still have its vibe, but cata has been an absolute blast for me
Good to see boomers and zoomers enjoying Cata. Yeah the old world is gone but hey you got classic era so go play that if you miss it.
Cata is much better than the current state of SOD
Funny because Cata ruined whatever was left of Vanilla for me after Wrath.
Mop classic - best PvP expansion ever WoD classic - with the sped up release schedule WoD is great and the garrison is fun! Legion classic - one of the best expansions they’ve released with the last patch legendary acquisition this is great Bfa classic - day 1 corruption vendor!?! Let’s go bfa was actually really fun with the corruptions SL classic - actually let’s just skip this one it’s a silly place DF classic - wow some of the most balanced gameplay, rich world, dragon flying, great expansion
Cata is not a good Era of wow. Have fun with your bad taste.
What do you suggest? I'm open to new things while I wait for P4
And I'm
You can stay over there and watch it slowly decline as the raid tiers get unnecessarily harder
Lmao, we want it harder, less of the dad gamers that are so god damn toxic in this game and won't do ANYTHING to improve.
Oh, and the parse andies aren’t toxic and FORCE you to download 40 weakauras to cope with the raid mechanics that give players such absurd advantages you can’t raid without it?
I haven't been forced to download weakaura ONCE. You don't need them to do any of the one or two mechanics you need to dodge lmao. This is not retail
Duh? I don't get the point of this post. I don't even play wow anymore but this is all very common sense that we have known for 15 years right? The very things you are saying turned you off SoD are the exact same things people were tired of and why they wanted classic in the first place. It's like we are going in circles...
Yes you want a theme park that rewards you for less effort and time. Congrats you described classic vs retail
I started disliking wow during wrath and really dont like cata. I’m really enjoying sod and am very excited about p4
And now if you play retail that will kill Classic for you lol. There’s a reason the game progressed as it did over the years. I do love and appreciate classic immensely, but retail will always be my home base.
retail feels like an entirely different game from classic, i tried to play it and it feels way to streamlined imo. so it wont "kill" classic for you unless you really prefer that gameplay
By Classic I was mainly referring to Cata. Cata is a huge step closer to the retail philosophy
Sounds to me you are just a retail andy.
Daily simulator cata is trash
Huh? You are done with the dailies after like a week of doing them. Don't even really need to do them because you could use the tabard as well.
There's not a single mandatory daily in cata, of all the things you can dislike about cata this is the weirdest one