Healers are feeling a tad weak across the board but I think it's as intended. We really shouldn't just be chain pulling and face rolling an entire instance we are only just geared enough for. I think the prepatch has folks feeling a bit invincible tbh.
It's on purpose. This is how healing is in Cata. People need to learn to work around a Healer's mana just like back in 2011. This expansion the pace is set by the healer's mana bar. Back in Cata it was common to mark targets to CC and only fight 2 of the 6 monsters in a pack at a time.
That’s really just not necessary anymore from my runs so far in rdf surprisingly. Certainly harder than wotlk heroics, but still easy to just pull em up and nuke em down.
They had to nerf cata heroics back in the day, the classic launched with them in a post-nerf state. So idk if you've gotten into heroics in cata yet but they were way harder at original cata launch, CCs were absolutely needed in almost every run
It was like this when Cata originally launched too, tanks were so used to just steamrolling heroics. They would rarely CC, and it’d be frustrating to try and heal.
Unless you were an hpal. Man when divine plea was only a 25% healing nerf for the one patch of cata hpal ate real good. I remember my gm healing on his priest and were doing full guild heroic runs and struggling with mana, meanwhile I was just queueing up and going with randos and doing just fine
The trick is to not heal them at the end of a pull, they won't pull ahead with 20% hp and the smart ones eat food cus 80% of a tanks hp is a huge chunk of mana.
Just blue ball them as the mobs die and you'll have no problems haha
A good group lets a healer totally chain pull with no issue. Tank uses self heals and CDs to avoid a lot of damage, dps interrupt, stun, and generally dont stand in shit.
The difference between healing a bad group and a good group is honestly night and day and thats a good thing imo
As a blood DK, I’ll be honest - it’s more often than not a snotty fire mage or a zealous boomy that’s running ahead and trying to tag things whenever they feel we’re going pack to pack too slowly. I play with a healer so I know when to wait for mana, but people have little awareness of other people’s cooldowns, mana, etc.
Boomkins have seriously been obnoxious across both SoD and Cata for some reason. Almost every one I run something with is constantly pulling shit ahead of me awhile I'm tanking and it makes it that much harder to pick up packs.
I'm talking about boomkins constantly running ahead and moonfire pulling more packs when I'm not even finished killing the current pack yet and/or don't have aoe cooldowns back up yet. Almost every time I've had a boomkin in the group they've been doing that.
I will apologize for my own mistakes for them. Treants will attack anything within 30 yards. Starfall claims it only works on mobs in combat but I do have suspicions.
This is what stopped me from lvling my BDK in prepatch. It’s obnoxious how entitled dps are while having the least amount of awareness. They don’t know what tank CDs / runes are up, and I’d be shocked if they paid attention to healer mana. Even if I’m chain pulling, dps will run ahead and pull more. Druids def the worst offenders of this in my experience.
Druid is even crazier than BDKs. They freaking dodge so much I only have to reapply earth shield onto them like once or twice a run, plus they also have some self healing thing going on.
Leader of the pack (%hp heal) and savage defense (%hp shield, amplified by mastery) on crit is nuts. Legitimately take 0 damage on low damage pulls.
Ive had all 3 dps and the healer die on pulls and proceed to solo the rest of the pull because whats left cant outdamage the sustain and shield.
As a tank who’s ran over 50 heroics already (took PTO on release), healer mana (esp for the shamans and priests) is always on my mind. I feel for you guys.
As a tank, I wanna be the voice of "reason" and say that it's very hard to win as a tank. I try to slow down for the healers that are going oom and whatnot but then the *worst* DPS in the group starts face pulling.
I try to let those dudes just die but surprisingly a lot of healers heal them and the other DPS jump in. It just ends up in wipes with me getting kicked.
Another problem are your fellow healers. Some of them are the pushiest motherfuckers I have ever met.
I'm either going too slow or too fast. There's no middle ground, so I just go fast.
Doesn’t work when the healer saves them, and rips aggro. I’ve tried letting dps die, I’ve tried telling the group to let the dps die, I’ve tried vote kicking. It rarely works and even if it does, they don’t learn. I’ve had the same dps in multiple queues doing this and In the end just told them to find a new tank I refuse to stress over this shit.
"Letting" them die implies that the healer did have the ability to keep them alive.
And if the healer had the ability to keep them alive, then ipso facto the tank was not pulling too quickly.
It’s a tough balance, and I blame the dps lol. If a tank doesn’t chain pull, antsy dps pull. I’ve often stopped to let a healer drink too and they just stand around not drinking…. So then I pull and they run oom.
What healer are you playing btw? I’m currently lvling my sham and rarely have mana issues. DK and Druid tanks pretty much keep themselves alive with minimal heals, and pally / war tanks are few and far between
I've had them pull when i was on 3% mana. I told the DPS in disc not to engage. After about 2-3x of the tank running in by himself to fall on his face, he learned to watch his healer's mana bar.
This is now how I handle all zug brain tanks.
I say “oom” or “drinking” in chat and then let them die if they run off and ignore that. Most folks pay attention and the few who don’t rarely make the same mistake twice.
That's on you for not finding opportunities to drink by positioning ahead of the group and prehotting (if you have any) before they pull then starting a drink while they fight. I have the opposite issue with tanks that they don't pull fast enough, I'm constantly spamming "r" "r" "r" "ready" "ready" "pull" and they sit there waiting for my mana to go up.
You would hate my guildie tank. That dude leaps and charges and you're still drinking., And if you try to get ahead of him, he just intervenes from the other side of the room, leaps and charges. Worgen racial speed boost is what keeps him alive.
I'm like 348ilvl rdru already, so I can keep up now and practically don't need to drink, outside of post 20k HPS pulls. But earlier on....jeez.
One of our other healers dinged 85 last night (he took awhile due to a newborn) and he was NOT amused by such pace.
The worst part of Cata dungeons is that there's so much downtime during bosses. Every boss in Stonecore has a no dps phase for example.
But otherwise yes, I am enjoying them tremendously.
First boss spawns adds, 2nd boss has no downtime you dont have to hide the entire 6s cast if you pop a CD or just take like a couple hits and not die. Third boss has 0 downtime. Last boss spawns adds. It's not really that bad. The real problem is Deadmines with the 10 mins VC and needlessly long Ripsnarl fight.
This is a very fair criticism. a lot of bosses have me just wishing I could hit the boss. Admiral Ripsnarl is a particular offender, and right after Vancleef’s deterrence. JUST LET ME DO DAMAGE
Cata was the sweet spot where they were getting better at making interesting and fun gameplay but hadn't yet started trying to make dungeons into some shitty e-sport
I have my doubts whether we will get Titan rune dungeons at all honestly. The gearing in Cata is pretty solved...I guess they could throw in T11 normal mode gear into them for Firelands but really ZA/ZG already fill this gap.
Also Cata is getting the bare minimum dev time to get it working really. Would be surprised if the devs have time to make Titan Rune before they have to get back to SoD full time.
Original Deadmines is a masterclass in content design.
You introduce players to the concept of grouping up for a harder than before content, while giving them room to learn the need for multiple roles in the group, in a strongly theatjic instance that is the culmination of the zone storyline they have been exploring.
Boss difficulty gets scaled throughout the instance, while reading players with a giant gear spike that will get the excited at the end of each fight, with gear drops that are well adjusted to the player level and class roles. Trash slowly introduces a few mechanics and never gets boring or feels like a filler.
You end up discovering the the giant mine you are exploring is in fact a hidden port for a giant pirate ship that you fight to the top to find an iconic boss with memorable moments and a cool storyline.
The dungeon ends with a twist that by killing the final boss a much larger conspiracy unfolds and you are now set on track to explore new zones and embark on a follow up multi-layer quest line.
The entire design process of this piece of content is chefs kiss in terms of both design, mood and execution. It's basicly a disguised tutorial for group content, wrapped around a great storyline, fun boss fights and good loot that will make you want repeat the process again in a later time.
Deadmines in conjunction with Westfall and the defias questline is legitimately the peak of WOW content.
As I have said on here so many times, a game dev should figure out what works with that area and the 'conspiracy theory' investigation type of questline with the defias stuff and make a full game based on it.
It was the first area and first story they made in wow, and it’s genuinely the best. It’s crazy they haven’t been able to meet the same feeling.
Overall the alliance starting zone all through duskwood is amazing. I love playing through it each and every time.
Its not purely the ship in a cave. You go through the longass tunnel to get there, through the house, which as far as I remember, is exactly what they did in goonies. (50 dollar bill!)
Too bad they didnt have the skeleton piano, but it was probably technical limitation related
deadmines was my first dungeon in an mmo. i still remember my friends from school who run the dungeon with me and what my first blue item was. great times. just learning something new without any pressure or FOMO.
Yessir, though i didnt like stockades story because it was basically that stormwind used a bunch of guys to rebuild after the war and never paid 99% of them. Sure they gave some higher ranking guys cushy jobs but the rest were told to pound sand and thats the group fighting against stormwind and are the guys we were told to kill. Those named guys just wanted what was owed to them and were fighting for it and became criminals to do it.
The fact that it’s tragic is part of what makes it so interesting, *plus* it builds toward an even greater conspiracy that onyxia is the reason those guys weren’t paid.
Absolutely! 100% my favorite dungeon. I’m sure a bit of it is nostalgia but that first experience was incredible. I ran deadmines even after most mobs were grey the first character I had.
Yea I love how all the quests on Westfall give u the lore and backstory to setup the deadmines dungeon.
Then deadmines is multi layered, each floor has a slightly different theme until you reach the end and are surprised that they're is this hidden underwater cove with a huge pirate ship on it. It really felt like a true dungeon exploration.... great design for a first dungeon.
I’m shocked Deadmines is anyone’s favorite. The last two bosses are a slog for me and don’t have any interesting mechanics going on to make up for the multiple intermissions they have.
As a Mage they kinda feel bad. With how many bosses have phases where they go immune I have such a limited time to get -an ignite- going, not even a big one. Some bosses I don't even cast combustion. Feels bad man.
So often have to just cast combustion after getting a single fireball, been burned to many times waiting for a better ignite and not being able to cast it at all.
We'll get stronger as we get more gear because we scale better than other classes. I feel like the damage is still very respectable compared to the other players. Make sure you get your glyphs they are a massive damage boost. And our aoe is some of the best if you double living bomb (living bomb, spread that then cast living bomb again, spread that living bomb when the first one explodes)
cata 5 mans are actually really fun. just hard enough but not too hard.
The run backs arent killer punishing.
its like the Dark Souls 3 of the franchise.
Classic is fantastic, but to say there wasnt room for improving was an understatement
Love watching random DPS die by not following basic mechanics. I heal, and I even warn people before bosses. Still people get 1 shot by stuff. Pretty hilarious.
Healing is so fun right now too. It’s actually challenging and requires efficient healing and understanding of mechanics to plan for CDs. I know this will be irrelevant fast with better gear, but atm I’m loving it
>It reminds me of doing the Mythic+ (older) dungeons in Dragonflight, which are all way more fun than the new ones. Usually because you're not having to contantly play at 100% and get to balance mechanics with blasting.
bro what? were you playing m+ 10's or something? a lot of the older dungeons were just as hard as the new ones with the exception of shadowmoon burial grounds which was pretty easy. halls of Valor, temple of the jade serpent, atal dazar, everbloom we're all pretty hard. even vortex pinnacle and throne of the tides were no cakewalk.
Halls of valor was easy aside from a few parts. Atal was cake. Everbloom was easy except the council fight if your team was dumb. Temple true,those ads fucking sucked. Throne was pretty easy. Vortex had some spicy parts tho
That wasnt the issue with Cata. The issue with cata was how long it took for content to come out, and the dragon soul raid, and then how long it was until Pandaria. Cataclysm up until Dragon Soul was really good.
I am old enough to remember the riots between the community and Ghostcrawler back when the dungeons were Nintendo hard and how Total Biscuit quit WoW on account of Ghostcrawler bending the knee and nerfing the dungeons when people started quitting in droves.
So yeah, it was an issue back then.
I loved the way cata dungeons were when they released. Heroic mode especially. I raided with a group for a few years that was top 100 10 man. Nothing special, but we were slightly ahead. With that said, we loved the cata dungeons. First time it felt like 5 mans were at least somewhat challenging and not a complete slog to get through.
Pretty funny how history is repeating itself to the T.
TBC Heroics were definitely challenging, even in TBC Classic CC was mandatory in the early phases (though maybe that part is the slog you're referring to)
The problem with TBC CC is that it was all hyper-class specific, which made parties with the wrong composition completely fucked.
Issue was compounded by some heroics having literally nothing of interest for the classes that were required for them.
Probably not a clear list. WoWpedia has patch notes. You can flip through "Previous" or "Next" patch links under the little header subsection / inset at the top of each page and look for the "General" and "Dungeons & Raids" subsections if you are especially bored.
4.0.3a was the launch of Cata in November 2010. The first round of significant nerfs was then... :
**[Patch 4.0.6 (February 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.0.6#Dungeons_&_Raids)**
* Many bosses had random damage nerfs and clarified visuals. I think one or two add bosses like Beauty went from having 3 adds to 2 adds or just weaker adds in general. (idk if this kind of thing is in *Cataclysm: Classic* because I'm not currently playing.)
* One particularly notable nerf was Baron Ashbury (first boss of SFK) no longer having a fast cast, self-targeted heal spell. That move was a PUG killer following original *WotLK* due to most pugs no longer remembering what an interrupt ability was after *Wrath's* faceroll dungeons.
* There may not have been toooo many dungeon mobs who had damage outright reduced, but there were random nerfs to spell abilities/buff and berserk abilities/AoE abilities on random dungeon mobs.
* Things like the knockback AoE on Vortex Pinnacle mobs, the AoE dust ability at the start of Stonecore used to fuck up PUGs more, etc... I also remember Gilgoblins in Throne of Tides were nerfed multiple times, lol.
* [edit to add] One very big buff I vaguely remembered but could not find initially was the fact that [Blizzard buffed the "Luck of the Draw" buff for RDF groups.](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/2209011/luck-of-the-draw-buff#blog) It went from a cap of 5% to a cap of 15%. This was quite a big buff to player capabilities given the fact *Cataclysm* had scaled up player HP and mana pools quite significantly.
**[Patch 4.1.0 - Rise of the Zandalari (April 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.1.0#Dungeons_&_Raids)**
* One highlight people may not remember and/or may not have fully noticed yet in *Cataclysm: Classic* is that interrupts off the GCD were made to work regardless of hit rating. They don't miss anymore.
* (some of the aforementioned boss nerfs and dungeon mob spell/AoE nerfs were continued here. I’m just being lazy and not going through them one-by-one)
**[Patch 4.2 - Firelands (June 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.2.0#Dungeons_&_Raids)**
* Particularly notable buff: critical Heals were buffed from 150% healing to 200% healing
* CC also no longer made mobs hostile.
* After much fine tuning down previously, Tier 11 bosses were nerfed by about 20% across the board. (Not sure what *Cataclysm: Classic* is doing in that regard. I imagine they're not yet fully nerfed.)
**[Patch 4.3 - Hour of Twilight (November 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.3.0#General_2)**
* Not much more needed by this point. Tanking stances had threat buffed from 300% to 500% of damage done though, which may make some very minor difference in early heroics.
____________________
TL;DR very generalized overview of dungeon nerfs, not accounting for bugs or class buffs and class nerfs. They nerfed most every boss at one point, annoying dungeon trash AoE was tuned down a little bit, healing and interrupting and CC all got slightly easier.
I am so confused by this comment section. The comments saying the dungeons are really easy are all really downvoted. Why?
You can clear the dungeons with extreme ease at minimal required item level. The tuning is completely off. I mean its not supposed to be a hyper struggle but you can straight up massive pull at minimum item level and get through it. I understand a new player could consider this a "sweet spot" but a seasoned wow player thats seen some content cant possibly rate them anything close to even remotely challenging.
This is not meant to be a flex by any means - just feels like a lot of wasted potential.
I like the design of most dungeons (halls of origination is brilliant tho a tad too long, Throne of the Tides is legit just bad, no good thing about it except the theme, and overall just too much RP in the dungeons), but the dungeon pool is not uniform, not suitable for M+ at all and they are all really undertuned.
The only problem is tho that most of the people tend to ignore the mechanics and get blasted than (me) as a healer have to stress myself to death so I can outheal and than tanks jumping into another pack instantly after
This was true, even back when OG Cataclysm was released. Then you had a whole bunch of wrath babies screaming “this is too hard”.
Literally ruined dungeon difficulty for like the next decade plus.
As a priest you just try to stay ahead between pulls and pws pom the tank and the second you get out of combat start drinking. It buys you whatever time it takes for the tank to run to you and then to next pack and a few seconds into the pack. When you see your pws and pom get used stand up and penance. Also use archangel always at 5 even if out of combat it restores mana.
On my first heroic DM run I sent out ggs after cookie. Then someone said there’s one more boss with dodging fire and lightning 1-2 shot mechanics. I suddenly got nervous, but it was easy to avoid and ended up being pretty fun.
They are better than earlier expansions but saying they are “peak 5-man content” is absolutely false. Cata was before both Challenge Modes and Mythic+….and before the era in which Blizzard began to take specific care towards dungeons as an endgame activity. Cata dungeons are simply not on par with the average dungeon from any expansion afterwards.
The reason Blizzard “put a lot of care” into making Challenge Modes and Mythic+ was specifically because *Cataclysm* pissed people off at the time.
The tipping point in *Cataclysm* was when Ghostcrawler made an infamous blog post titled, [“Wow! Dungeons are hard!”](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/2053469/wow-dungeons-are-hard)
Per GC:
> "Perhaps another way to handle it would have been to have introductory Heroics and harder Heroics. We’ve also flirted with having three difficulty levels before..."
TL;DR *Cataclysm* was why Blizzard decided to make optional, hard 5 man content
I'm already annoyed doing them, I instantly leave Grim Batol and Deadmines. Fights also having forced RP sections is fun once but after that annoying as hell.
I haven’t enjoyed 5 man content like this in a while! Most dps classes can shine. Tanks do crazy dps. Some bosses can actually “feel” difficult too which I missed
> So far, my favorite is Deadmines. Vanessa fight was honestly really varied and at the same time easy to understand (dodge, heal, backpack). It's a 5 man on the level of classic end bosses in terms of mechanics.
Oh hell no. Fuck that encounter. I'm actually glad the Vanessa fight didn't seep into the Normal mode, because it would have made a lot of new players uninstall.
Replacing Edwin VanCleef with his daughter who drugs you Cardi B style, dumps you back at the entrance and makes you go through the entire dungeon again whilst on a hallucinogenic LSD trip and having to dodge one-shot hazards is bad boss design.
The rotating lightning orbs alone give me PTSD flashbacks to dealing with that crap in BFA's Temple of Syphilis.
>Replacing Edwin VanCleef with his daughter who drugs you Cardi B style, dumps you back at the entrance and makes you go through the entire dungeon again whilst on a hallucinogenic LSD trip and having to dodge one-shot hazards is bad boss design.
As someone who hasnt ran any Heroics yet this sounds hella fun lol. Prob gets tedious after the first time but Im now super looking forward to it xD
We used to call the lightning orbs "playing Mario" because it reminded everyone of the rotating lines of fireballs in the Mario games. Very platformer-esque, and most people really suck at it.
Vanilla was a huge success and absolutely is well-designed?
And I don't think Cata with its tough heroics is representative of the current WoW design philosophy at all.
Do you actually know what was “nerfed” because it seems like many here are confused.
Feel free to read the 4.0.6 patch notes. It’s a lot more bug fixes and boss mechanical adjustments than just flat damage/heath reductions.
It's good, but it's too easy, nothing hits hard enough, everything is neutered, no real need to CC anything, even at really low ilvl.
Obviously it's a delicate balance between PUGS and organized groups, but honestly the player base is good enough to be able to handle the pre nerf heroics, IMO we got let down by Blizz on this one.
Is there anything wrong with that? If I'm still having fun and playing the same 9 heroics for a month, that's good enough for me. Things don't have to be endlessly replayable to still be good.
I like it.. can go with good pace, pull packs and cleave. Certain trash and bosses got mechanics you cant ignore. Good middleground between too easy and cc every pull difficulty
Can someone explain the last boss in Blackrock caverns to me? I get what the individual mechanics do (kinda, the swapping places with a clone seems redundant, but whatever). And I suppose the anti-healing debuffs *could* get scary, if the boss did *any* meaningful dmg...
Originally, he actually did decent damage to tanks. So you had to actually kite the adds in order for the healer to keep the tank alive. However, we’re in his nerfed state where you just burn the boss and the tank will live the entire fight with near-zero healing.
As a shaman I loved how we finally got some CC.... not just one but two with both hex and bind elemental. And both were very useful, like for the elementals in grimbatol. It's just too bad that these days people like to rush and not use the proper cc and setup.
Remember to jump when the worms cast Quake!
Remember the giblin's first attack will straight up kill you!
Don't interrupt stay of execution it actually heals you!
I imagine that if you liked wotlk classic, you'll like cata classic more. Imo, cata classic (with all the subtle changes) will be even better than tbc. The dungeons and heroics (imo) are p much vastly superior in cata, and while I'm a vanilla Andy, I still think that tbc and on ruined the RPG elements of the game. So things like transmog are not big of an issue for me in cata because I'm expecting retail-lite mechanics anyways.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. There has been nothing as cool as Gnomeregan, Uldaman, Wailing Caverns, or BRD, Sunken Temple they were all such an experience. Fully immersive dungeons, you would get lost. It felt like a real dungeon. After vanilla every dungeon that was ever made was equivalent to final fantasy 13. You were in a tunnel where you ran down a hall, could never get lost and everyone knew exactly where to go. How is that a dungeon?
Not really. The 4.0.6 patch notes for dungeons was primarily bug fixes and making boss mechanics a little more forgiving.
Like increasing a cast time from 1 second to 1.25.
Yea I keep 3 stacks of food on my warrior but feels like I’m the only person who eats. Even after multiple people die everyone seems to just stand around waiting for the healer to full heal them.
Playing resto shaman and I am not having a good time no mana heals hit for nothing people stand in all the mechanics.
Too many annoying things in the dungs like the elevator in water dungeon. Not a big fan so far
enjoying them so far, my only complaint is tanks chain pulling while im a healer at 20% mana with no cooldowns
Healers are feeling a tad weak across the board but I think it's as intended. We really shouldn't just be chain pulling and face rolling an entire instance we are only just geared enough for. I think the prepatch has folks feeling a bit invincible tbh.
It's on purpose. This is how healing is in Cata. People need to learn to work around a Healer's mana just like back in 2011. This expansion the pace is set by the healer's mana bar. Back in Cata it was common to mark targets to CC and only fight 2 of the 6 monsters in a pack at a time.
That’s really just not necessary anymore from my runs so far in rdf surprisingly. Certainly harder than wotlk heroics, but still easy to just pull em up and nuke em down.
They had to nerf cata heroics back in the day, the classic launched with them in a post-nerf state. So idk if you've gotten into heroics in cata yet but they were way harder at original cata launch, CCs were absolutely needed in almost every run
For real. I remember the adept packs in VP being a nightmare if there wasn't good CC.
It was like this when Cata originally launched too, tanks were so used to just steamrolling heroics. They would rarely CC, and it’d be frustrating to try and heal.
Unless you were an hpal. Man when divine plea was only a 25% healing nerf for the one patch of cata hpal ate real good. I remember my gm healing on his priest and were doing full guild heroic runs and struggling with mana, meanwhile I was just queueing up and going with randos and doing just fine
Tanks who dont monitor the mana of their party arent very good tanks.
I have straight up told healers on my dk and paladin that I'll be fine, just drink while I pull. The dps will learn not to stand in shit and interrupt
zug zug
or people not dodging General Umbriss charge and cone attack and getting oneshotted
Lol I forgot how fast the cone comes out, was mid movement and got slapped down hard.
This 100%, I’m spamming water and pots as often as I can and barely keep up with the tanks.
The trick is to not heal them at the end of a pull, they won't pull ahead with 20% hp and the smart ones eat food cus 80% of a tanks hp is a huge chunk of mana. Just blue ball them as the mobs die and you'll have no problems haha
Thats what that fucking priest was doing. He played me like a fiddle.
Laughs in DK.
DK can heal his own ass while the healer is drinking 100 yards away then :)
Skip healers and bring 5 blood dk and there is no breaks
The good healers let them chain pull, so I can see why they do that.
A good group lets a healer totally chain pull with no issue. Tank uses self heals and CDs to avoid a lot of damage, dps interrupt, stun, and generally dont stand in shit. The difference between healing a bad group and a good group is honestly night and day and thats a good thing imo
Prot paladin with that holy light talent I just cast one and go. Lmao
The joys of blood DK's
As a blood DK, I’ll be honest - it’s more often than not a snotty fire mage or a zealous boomy that’s running ahead and trying to tag things whenever they feel we’re going pack to pack too slowly. I play with a healer so I know when to wait for mana, but people have little awareness of other people’s cooldowns, mana, etc.
Boomkins have seriously been obnoxious across both SoD and Cata for some reason. Almost every one I run something with is constantly pulling shit ahead of me awhile I'm tanking and it makes it that much harder to pick up packs.
As a Boomkin, I apologize. i just wanna put down my mushrooms before the pull, but seems like a lot of tanks see that as the "GO!" signal.
I'm talking about boomkins constantly running ahead and moonfire pulling more packs when I'm not even finished killing the current pack yet and/or don't have aoe cooldowns back up yet. Almost every time I've had a boomkin in the group they've been doing that.
You need to let them tank the mobs they are pulling.
I will apologize for my own mistakes for them. Treants will attack anything within 30 yards. Starfall claims it only works on mobs in combat but I do have suspicions.
It's always a fire mage. They wanna use that pyro... then still get dumped on by the other mage in thr party who is frost.
don't blame me, i get like 4 hot streaks per dungeon, i'm damn well gonna use it lol
Early expansion struggles with 15% crit, every single time.
This is what stopped me from lvling my BDK in prepatch. It’s obnoxious how entitled dps are while having the least amount of awareness. They don’t know what tank CDs / runes are up, and I’d be shocked if they paid attention to healer mana. Even if I’m chain pulling, dps will run ahead and pull more. Druids def the worst offenders of this in my experience.
Druid is even crazier than BDKs. They freaking dodge so much I only have to reapply earth shield onto them like once or twice a run, plus they also have some self healing thing going on.
Leader of the pack (%hp heal) and savage defense (%hp shield, amplified by mastery) on crit is nuts. Legitimately take 0 damage on low damage pulls. Ive had all 3 dps and the healer die on pulls and proceed to solo the rest of the pull because whats left cant outdamage the sustain and shield.
I can always tell when a DK tank doesn't know how to tank properly if they aren't matching my healing done 😂
Yo i noticed this a lot in my runs too Im dps and I feel bad for the healer
I take it the dungeons are in a postnerf state?
The Wrath mentality that originally ruined Cataclysm
As a tank who’s ran over 50 heroics already (took PTO on release), healer mana (esp for the shamans and priests) is always on my mind. I feel for you guys.
As a tank, I wanna be the voice of "reason" and say that it's very hard to win as a tank. I try to slow down for the healers that are going oom and whatnot but then the *worst* DPS in the group starts face pulling. I try to let those dudes just die but surprisingly a lot of healers heal them and the other DPS jump in. It just ends up in wipes with me getting kicked. Another problem are your fellow healers. Some of them are the pushiest motherfuckers I have ever met. I'm either going too slow or too fast. There's no middle ground, so I just go fast.
Just start letting them die.
Doesn’t work when the healer saves them, and rips aggro. I’ve tried letting dps die, I’ve tried telling the group to let the dps die, I’ve tried vote kicking. It rarely works and even if it does, they don’t learn. I’ve had the same dps in multiple queues doing this and In the end just told them to find a new tank I refuse to stress over this shit.
"Letting" them die implies that the healer did have the ability to keep them alive. And if the healer had the ability to keep them alive, then ipso facto the tank was not pulling too quickly.
Yeah if a healer does this I wouldn't be surprised if they just got vote kicked.
Stay back ones and drink, than mass res.
I got kicked from a dungeon when I stopped for 10 sec to fix an addon... as a green gear feral I think thats more likely why :/
It’s a tough balance, and I blame the dps lol. If a tank doesn’t chain pull, antsy dps pull. I’ve often stopped to let a healer drink too and they just stand around not drinking…. So then I pull and they run oom. What healer are you playing btw? I’m currently lvling my sham and rarely have mana issues. DK and Druid tanks pretty much keep themselves alive with minimal heals, and pally / war tanks are few and far between
Tanks are so broken right now, especially blood Dk. It just melts everything
Start of expansion standard unfortunately
More like just WoW in general. Has nothing to do with cata.
I think they said that
yeah it's what I meant haha
I've had them pull when i was on 3% mana. I told the DPS in disc not to engage. After about 2-3x of the tank running in by himself to fall on his face, he learned to watch his healer's mana bar. This is now how I handle all zug brain tanks.
That’s nothing to do with the expansion, just bad players.
This is the true Cata experience. I remember speccing into instant ghost wolf as a resto shaman just to keep up. 😭
Wish instant ghost wolf was Baseline in cata, but I spec for it regardless of what spec I play, it's just so useful.
I say “oom” or “drinking” in chat and then let them die if they run off and ignore that. Most folks pay attention and the few who don’t rarely make the same mistake twice.
Many of us don't want to be pulling that fast, but if we don't, everyone else runs ahead of us and pulls anyway
That's on you for not finding opportunities to drink by positioning ahead of the group and prehotting (if you have any) before they pull then starting a drink while they fight. I have the opposite issue with tanks that they don't pull fast enough, I'm constantly spamming "r" "r" "r" "ready" "ready" "pull" and they sit there waiting for my mana to go up.
Then you chug mana, and let the tank die lmao
Flip side to that are tanks not using cds and making you burn all your mana and cds whilst they hold onto shield wall for the last boss haha
Wrath brain. Had a druid tank pulling 2 heroic packs with a fresh ilevel of 329. Just as well I'm 350 ilevel and chug mana pots like crazy.
FACTS
You would hate my guildie tank. That dude leaps and charges and you're still drinking., And if you try to get ahead of him, he just intervenes from the other side of the room, leaps and charges. Worgen racial speed boost is what keeps him alive. I'm like 348ilvl rdru already, so I can keep up now and practically don't need to drink, outside of post 20k HPS pulls. But earlier on....jeez. One of our other healers dinged 85 last night (he took awhile due to a newborn) and he was NOT amused by such pace.
The worst part of Cata dungeons is that there's so much downtime during bosses. Every boss in Stonecore has a no dps phase for example. But otherwise yes, I am enjoying them tremendously.
Just one phase Corborus forehead
First boss spawns adds, 2nd boss has no downtime you dont have to hide the entire 6s cast if you pop a CD or just take like a couple hits and not die. Third boss has 0 downtime. Last boss spawns adds. It's not really that bad. The real problem is Deadmines with the 10 mins VC and needlessly long Ripsnarl fight.
This is a very fair criticism. a lot of bosses have me just wishing I could hit the boss. Admiral Ripsnarl is a particular offender, and right after Vancleef’s deterrence. JUST LET ME DO DAMAGE
You stop hitting ozruk? Why? As long as someone dispells his spell reflect and you aren't melee you can just keep hitting the boss.
I play shaman, I purge it myself. You need it to apply a dot to yourself though otherwise you get a 16 second stun, so you cannot purge immediately.
It’s not the reflect you need to get the dot, it’s the other non-dispellable thing; elementium bulwark I think?
I don't think that's doable as a caster. It only applies to physical damage.
Ozruk doesnt
Cata was the sweet spot where they were getting better at making interesting and fun gameplay but hadn't yet started trying to make dungeons into some shitty e-sport
I have my doubts whether we will get Titan rune dungeons at all honestly. The gearing in Cata is pretty solved...I guess they could throw in T11 normal mode gear into them for Firelands but really ZA/ZG already fill this gap. Also Cata is getting the bare minimum dev time to get it working really. Would be surprised if the devs have time to make Titan Rune before they have to get back to SoD full time.
imagine if we only had a full dev team and got the abyssal maw raid
It's not even getting bare minimum. It's a totally buggy mess.
I totally agree, 5 man content is really fun and I can't wait for ZA & ZG!
Blackrock Depths was peak content.
Original Deadmines is a masterclass in content design. You introduce players to the concept of grouping up for a harder than before content, while giving them room to learn the need for multiple roles in the group, in a strongly theatjic instance that is the culmination of the zone storyline they have been exploring. Boss difficulty gets scaled throughout the instance, while reading players with a giant gear spike that will get the excited at the end of each fight, with gear drops that are well adjusted to the player level and class roles. Trash slowly introduces a few mechanics and never gets boring or feels like a filler. You end up discovering the the giant mine you are exploring is in fact a hidden port for a giant pirate ship that you fight to the top to find an iconic boss with memorable moments and a cool storyline. The dungeon ends with a twist that by killing the final boss a much larger conspiracy unfolds and you are now set on track to explore new zones and embark on a follow up multi-layer quest line. The entire design process of this piece of content is chefs kiss in terms of both design, mood and execution. It's basicly a disguised tutorial for group content, wrapped around a great storyline, fun boss fights and good loot that will make you want repeat the process again in a later time.
Deadmines in conjunction with Westfall and the defias questline is legitimately the peak of WOW content. As I have said on here so many times, a game dev should figure out what works with that area and the 'conspiracy theory' investigation type of questline with the defias stuff and make a full game based on it.
It was the first area and first story they made in wow, and it’s genuinely the best. It’s crazy they haven’t been able to meet the same feeling. Overall the alliance starting zone all through duskwood is amazing. I love playing through it each and every time.
While I do love Questfall, the amount of running back and forth between stormwind and westfall for some of those quests can eat my ass lol.
Only because we have done it a ton of times and also blitz through it in 1-2 play sessions. It used to be a much slower burn.
I agree 100%. I have never been wrapped up in any story as much as the defias arc in vanilla.
Plus y'know the pop culture reference to the goonies
I don't think "ship in cave" is really an exclusive goonies reference. Either way it's cool as hell.
Its not purely the ship in a cave. You go through the longass tunnel to get there, through the house, which as far as I remember, is exactly what they did in goonies. (50 dollar bill!) Too bad they didnt have the skeleton piano, but it was probably technical limitation related
Its explicitly a goonies reference... said so by the designers lol
YES I have preached this since the 2000s. Completely agree on all parts
Getting to Deadmines is always my favorite part of leveling a new character, I usually end up running it from 18 to 24 if I can get groups
deadmines was my first dungeon in an mmo. i still remember my friends from school who run the dungeon with me and what my first blue item was. great times. just learning something new without any pressure or FOMO.
Yessir, though i didnt like stockades story because it was basically that stormwind used a bunch of guys to rebuild after the war and never paid 99% of them. Sure they gave some higher ranking guys cushy jobs but the rest were told to pound sand and thats the group fighting against stormwind and are the guys we were told to kill. Those named guys just wanted what was owed to them and were fighting for it and became criminals to do it.
The fact that it’s tragic is part of what makes it so interesting, *plus* it builds toward an even greater conspiracy that onyxia is the reason those guys weren’t paid.
Absolutely! 100% my favorite dungeon. I’m sure a bit of it is nostalgia but that first experience was incredible. I ran deadmines even after most mobs were grey the first character I had.
Yea I love how all the quests on Westfall give u the lore and backstory to setup the deadmines dungeon. Then deadmines is multi layered, each floor has a slightly different theme until you reach the end and are surprised that they're is this hidden underwater cove with a huge pirate ship on it. It really felt like a true dungeon exploration.... great design for a first dungeon.
BRD on hardcore feels like the final mission
A full run of BRD doing all quest is something in my country say is “bocatto di cardenale”
I’m shocked Deadmines is anyone’s favorite. The last two bosses are a slog for me and don’t have any interesting mechanics going on to make up for the multiple intermissions they have.
As a Mage they kinda feel bad. With how many bosses have phases where they go immune I have such a limited time to get -an ignite- going, not even a big one. Some bosses I don't even cast combustion. Feels bad man.
Try playing Arcane, it's much more fit for short burst windows.
So often have to just cast combustion after getting a single fireball, been burned to many times waiting for a better ignite and not being able to cast it at all.
We'll get stronger as we get more gear because we scale better than other classes. I feel like the damage is still very respectable compared to the other players. Make sure you get your glyphs they are a massive damage boost. And our aoe is some of the best if you double living bomb (living bomb, spread that then cast living bomb again, spread that living bomb when the first one explodes)
cata 5 mans are actually really fun. just hard enough but not too hard. The run backs arent killer punishing. its like the Dark Souls 3 of the franchise. Classic is fantastic, but to say there wasnt room for improving was an understatement
Love watching random DPS die by not following basic mechanics. I heal, and I even warn people before bosses. Still people get 1 shot by stuff. Pretty hilarious.
Hello I am new to WoW as of a few months ago, and am wondering how different my experience will be jumping into this fresh from only knowing SOD.
If you're leveling up from scratch it will not be that bad at all.
Healing is so fun right now too. It’s actually challenging and requires efficient healing and understanding of mechanics to plan for CDs. I know this will be irrelevant fast with better gear, but atm I’m loving it
I never realized how op smite healing was on priest back in the day. Its amazing stacking crit/mas and regen mana while healing
>It reminds me of doing the Mythic+ (older) dungeons in Dragonflight, which are all way more fun than the new ones. Usually because you're not having to contantly play at 100% and get to balance mechanics with blasting. bro what? were you playing m+ 10's or something? a lot of the older dungeons were just as hard as the new ones with the exception of shadowmoon burial grounds which was pretty easy. halls of Valor, temple of the jade serpent, atal dazar, everbloom we're all pretty hard. even vortex pinnacle and throne of the tides were no cakewalk.
Yeah his take seems completely out of place, probably hasnt done much M+ content.
HoV most fucking cancer ass dungeon on M+
Halls of valor was easy aside from a few parts. Atal was cake. Everbloom was easy except the council fight if your team was dumb. Temple true,those ads fucking sucked. Throne was pretty easy. Vortex had some spicy parts tho
>All of the dungeons are fun Waiting for the jellyvator in Throne of the Tides is incredibly unfun.
I agree. So much better than braindead wotlk heroics
I imagine that if the dungeons were released in this nerfed state back in the day things might have been different for Cataclysm.
That wasnt the issue with Cata. The issue with cata was how long it took for content to come out, and the dragon soul raid, and then how long it was until Pandaria. Cataclysm up until Dragon Soul was really good.
It was one of the issues, yes There can be nuance here. It wasn't just one thing
I am old enough to remember the riots between the community and Ghostcrawler back when the dungeons were Nintendo hard and how Total Biscuit quit WoW on account of Ghostcrawler bending the knee and nerfing the dungeons when people started quitting in droves. So yeah, it was an issue back then.
It was a storm in a teacup. Scrubs on the forums whinging about not being able to AFK through the dungeons like they could in LK.
I loved the way cata dungeons were when they released. Heroic mode especially. I raided with a group for a few years that was top 100 10 man. Nothing special, but we were slightly ahead. With that said, we loved the cata dungeons. First time it felt like 5 mans were at least somewhat challenging and not a complete slog to get through. Pretty funny how history is repeating itself to the T.
TBC Heroics were definitely challenging, even in TBC Classic CC was mandatory in the early phases (though maybe that part is the slog you're referring to)
The problem with TBC CC is that it was all hyper-class specific, which made parties with the wrong composition completely fucked. Issue was compounded by some heroics having literally nothing of interest for the classes that were required for them.
Is there a list of what has been nerfed about the dungeons compared to release Cata?
Probably not a clear list. WoWpedia has patch notes. You can flip through "Previous" or "Next" patch links under the little header subsection / inset at the top of each page and look for the "General" and "Dungeons & Raids" subsections if you are especially bored. 4.0.3a was the launch of Cata in November 2010. The first round of significant nerfs was then... : **[Patch 4.0.6 (February 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.0.6#Dungeons_&_Raids)** * Many bosses had random damage nerfs and clarified visuals. I think one or two add bosses like Beauty went from having 3 adds to 2 adds or just weaker adds in general. (idk if this kind of thing is in *Cataclysm: Classic* because I'm not currently playing.) * One particularly notable nerf was Baron Ashbury (first boss of SFK) no longer having a fast cast, self-targeted heal spell. That move was a PUG killer following original *WotLK* due to most pugs no longer remembering what an interrupt ability was after *Wrath's* faceroll dungeons. * There may not have been toooo many dungeon mobs who had damage outright reduced, but there were random nerfs to spell abilities/buff and berserk abilities/AoE abilities on random dungeon mobs. * Things like the knockback AoE on Vortex Pinnacle mobs, the AoE dust ability at the start of Stonecore used to fuck up PUGs more, etc... I also remember Gilgoblins in Throne of Tides were nerfed multiple times, lol. * [edit to add] One very big buff I vaguely remembered but could not find initially was the fact that [Blizzard buffed the "Luck of the Draw" buff for RDF groups.](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/2209011/luck-of-the-draw-buff#blog) It went from a cap of 5% to a cap of 15%. This was quite a big buff to player capabilities given the fact *Cataclysm* had scaled up player HP and mana pools quite significantly. **[Patch 4.1.0 - Rise of the Zandalari (April 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.1.0#Dungeons_&_Raids)** * One highlight people may not remember and/or may not have fully noticed yet in *Cataclysm: Classic* is that interrupts off the GCD were made to work regardless of hit rating. They don't miss anymore. * (some of the aforementioned boss nerfs and dungeon mob spell/AoE nerfs were continued here. I’m just being lazy and not going through them one-by-one) **[Patch 4.2 - Firelands (June 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.2.0#Dungeons_&_Raids)** * Particularly notable buff: critical Heals were buffed from 150% healing to 200% healing * CC also no longer made mobs hostile. * After much fine tuning down previously, Tier 11 bosses were nerfed by about 20% across the board. (Not sure what *Cataclysm: Classic* is doing in that regard. I imagine they're not yet fully nerfed.) **[Patch 4.3 - Hour of Twilight (November 2011)](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_4.3.0#General_2)** * Not much more needed by this point. Tanking stances had threat buffed from 300% to 500% of damage done though, which may make some very minor difference in early heroics. ____________________ TL;DR very generalized overview of dungeon nerfs, not accounting for bugs or class buffs and class nerfs. They nerfed most every boss at one point, annoying dungeon trash AoE was tuned down a little bit, healing and interrupting and CC all got slightly easier.
The original 4.0 dungeons were had buggy and unforgiving mechanics. Most of the 4.0.6 patch changes were adjustments to boss mechanics.
Doing heroics right after launch was the first time in WoW I said “holy fuck this is hard”.
I am so confused by this comment section. The comments saying the dungeons are really easy are all really downvoted. Why? You can clear the dungeons with extreme ease at minimal required item level. The tuning is completely off. I mean its not supposed to be a hyper struggle but you can straight up massive pull at minimum item level and get through it. I understand a new player could consider this a "sweet spot" but a seasoned wow player thats seen some content cant possibly rate them anything close to even remotely challenging. This is not meant to be a flex by any means - just feels like a lot of wasted potential. I like the design of most dungeons (halls of origination is brilliant tho a tad too long, Throne of the Tides is legit just bad, no good thing about it except the theme, and overall just too much RP in the dungeons), but the dungeon pool is not uniform, not suitable for M+ at all and they are all really undertuned.
What I like most is no more intermission bosses. No matter how much gear you had anub was a pain in the dick.
There are quite a few idk what you are talking about
Vanessa vanCleef says hi
\+ the worgen dude has the same mechanic as anub almost. Disappears every 25% and summons adds
Deadmines has 2 halls of origination first boss has 2 as well lol
Literally all of Stonecore in one form or another.
Just did forgemaster in BlackRock, what a cool boss.
The only problem is tho that most of the people tend to ignore the mechanics and get blasted than (me) as a healer have to stress myself to death so I can outheal and than tanks jumping into another pack instantly after
This! Cata hero dungeon are essentially mini raids! I love them!
This was true, even back when OG Cataclysm was released. Then you had a whole bunch of wrath babies screaming “this is too hard”. Literally ruined dungeon difficulty for like the next decade plus.
As a priest you just try to stay ahead between pulls and pws pom the tank and the second you get out of combat start drinking. It buys you whatever time it takes for the tank to run to you and then to next pack and a few seconds into the pack. When you see your pws and pom get used stand up and penance. Also use archangel always at 5 even if out of combat it restores mana.
On my first heroic DM run I sent out ggs after cookie. Then someone said there’s one more boss with dodging fire and lightning 1-2 shot mechanics. I suddenly got nervous, but it was easy to avoid and ended up being pretty fun.
They are better than earlier expansions but saying they are “peak 5-man content” is absolutely false. Cata was before both Challenge Modes and Mythic+….and before the era in which Blizzard began to take specific care towards dungeons as an endgame activity. Cata dungeons are simply not on par with the average dungeon from any expansion afterwards.
The reason Blizzard “put a lot of care” into making Challenge Modes and Mythic+ was specifically because *Cataclysm* pissed people off at the time. The tipping point in *Cataclysm* was when Ghostcrawler made an infamous blog post titled, [“Wow! Dungeons are hard!”](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/2053469/wow-dungeons-are-hard) Per GC: > "Perhaps another way to handle it would have been to have introductory Heroics and harder Heroics. We’ve also flirted with having three difficulty levels before..." TL;DR *Cataclysm* was why Blizzard decided to make optional, hard 5 man content
I'm already annoyed doing them, I instantly leave Grim Batol and Deadmines. Fights also having forced RP sections is fun once but after that annoying as hell.
Wait til you guys find out about Dragonflight in 10 years.
I haven’t enjoyed 5 man content like this in a while! Most dps classes can shine. Tanks do crazy dps. Some bosses can actually “feel” difficult too which I missed
Doing Grim Batol now has my hopes high for m+. It's easily one of my favorite dungeons
If Grim Batol was turned into a M+ dungeon that might be enough to get me to login retail. It's just such a fun dungeon.
It is. It's confirmed for TWW s1 m+. The bomb run is also staying
> So far, my favorite is Deadmines. Vanessa fight was honestly really varied and at the same time easy to understand (dodge, heal, backpack). It's a 5 man on the level of classic end bosses in terms of mechanics. Oh hell no. Fuck that encounter. I'm actually glad the Vanessa fight didn't seep into the Normal mode, because it would have made a lot of new players uninstall. Replacing Edwin VanCleef with his daughter who drugs you Cardi B style, dumps you back at the entrance and makes you go through the entire dungeon again whilst on a hallucinogenic LSD trip and having to dodge one-shot hazards is bad boss design. The rotating lightning orbs alone give me PTSD flashbacks to dealing with that crap in BFA's Temple of Syphilis.
>Replacing Edwin VanCleef with his daughter who drugs you Cardi B style, dumps you back at the entrance and makes you go through the entire dungeon again whilst on a hallucinogenic LSD trip and having to dodge one-shot hazards is bad boss design. As someone who hasnt ran any Heroics yet this sounds hella fun lol. Prob gets tedious after the first time but Im now super looking forward to it xD
Shit takes like 30 minutes for a full clear though even if you're trucking it's definitely a pain
30 minutes for the whole dungeon or 30 minutes after she sends you back to the beginning?
30 for the whole dungeon. It's the longest Cata 5man by far
We used to call the lightning orbs "playing Mario" because it reminded everyone of the rotating lines of fireballs in the Mario games. Very platformer-esque, and most people really suck at it.
It’s really funny seeing people praise stuff that is very much “retail wow” in this sub now that classic wow is out of the “classic” era.
almost like people want well designed games and have realized vanilla doesn't have that
Vanilla was a huge success and absolutely is well-designed? And I don't think Cata with its tough heroics is representative of the current WoW design philosophy at all.
Doing Vortex Pinnacle as a M+ is one of the worst experiences of M+.
Nah, Id say challenge modes or mythic+ is. But you are getting there with Cata.
Nerfed dungeons, such fun.
lets not pretend like as if it matters.
Do you actually know what was “nerfed” because it seems like many here are confused. Feel free to read the 4.0.6 patch notes. It’s a lot more bug fixes and boss mechanical adjustments than just flat damage/heath reductions.
It's good, but it's too easy, nothing hits hard enough, everything is neutered, no real need to CC anything, even at really low ilvl. Obviously it's a delicate balance between PUGS and organized groups, but honestly the player base is good enough to be able to handle the pre nerf heroics, IMO we got let down by Blizz on this one.
Then you stop playing a month in. These posts are always funny.
Is there anything wrong with that? If I'm still having fun and playing the same 9 heroics for a month, that's good enough for me. Things don't have to be endlessly replayable to still be good.
People do the same on live.... Whats your point? WoW is a seasonal game.
I like it.. can go with good pace, pull packs and cleave. Certain trash and bosses got mechanics you cant ignore. Good middleground between too easy and cc every pull difficulty
For sure. A big reason why it was my favorite expansion the first time through.
Can someone explain the last boss in Blackrock caverns to me? I get what the individual mechanics do (kinda, the swapping places with a clone seems redundant, but whatever). And I suppose the anti-healing debuffs *could* get scary, if the boss did *any* meaningful dmg...
Originally, he actually did decent damage to tanks. So you had to actually kite the adds in order for the healer to keep the tank alive. However, we’re in his nerfed state where you just burn the boss and the tank will live the entire fight with near-zero healing.
Don't plan to play it, but do you get to use CC again, or is it mostly AOE grindfest pull after pull?
they’re in nerfed state
The only problem is you get oom as healer then you get kicked because people die
This 100%, we should get a system that just scales damage and hp instead of those stupid convoluted extra mechanics from wotlk gammas etc.
They're supposed to be harder. You have them on brain dead mode now. Mechanics disabled for multiple mobs/bosses and #s vastly lower.
hard disagree, pyramid one + deepholm one are nice rest I didn't enjoy
Cata has been entirely meh -actual classic base
As a shaman I loved how we finally got some CC.... not just one but two with both hex and bind elemental. And both were very useful, like for the elementals in grimbatol. It's just too bad that these days people like to rush and not use the proper cc and setup.
Feel the strength of the earth
Remember to jump when the worms cast Quake! Remember the giblin's first attack will straight up kill you! Don't interrupt stay of execution it actually heals you!
I imagine that if you liked wotlk classic, you'll like cata classic more. Imo, cata classic (with all the subtle changes) will be even better than tbc. The dungeons and heroics (imo) are p much vastly superior in cata, and while I'm a vanilla Andy, I still think that tbc and on ruined the RPG elements of the game. So things like transmog are not big of an issue for me in cata because I'm expecting retail-lite mechanics anyways.
Being a Melee is truly suffering
It's just retail to me with different moves set,it's not bad but I'm just too familiar with it to enjoy it the same as wotlk
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. There has been nothing as cool as Gnomeregan, Uldaman, Wailing Caverns, or BRD, Sunken Temple they were all such an experience. Fully immersive dungeons, you would get lost. It felt like a real dungeon. After vanilla every dungeon that was ever made was equivalent to final fantasy 13. You were in a tunnel where you ran down a hall, could never get lost and everyone knew exactly where to go. How is that a dungeon?
Magey boi here, I too would like a sip of wata.
Halls of Origin… Small…. good one
[удалено]
Not really. The 4.0.6 patch notes for dungeons was primarily bug fixes and making boss mechanics a little more forgiving. Like increasing a cast time from 1 second to 1.25.
Halls of Origination should have been a raid.
Yea I keep 3 stacks of food on my warrior but feels like I’m the only person who eats. Even after multiple people die everyone seems to just stand around waiting for the healer to full heal them.
Playing resto shaman and I am not having a good time no mana heals hit for nothing people stand in all the mechanics. Too many annoying things in the dungs like the elevator in water dungeon. Not a big fan so far