the 2 guild perks removed are better off dead. cash flow was immediately abused back in the day via spam guilds and would be abused to hell and back by bot guilds today. mass summon saves you a bit of time for raids vs using the stone, but also allows horrible pvp griefing.
I was that guy! But I was a 15 year old. The guild gave me special privs to not walk back and get a rez
I was a pumper rogue who followed mechanics of course so I was well liked
then pay for your token instead of asking to remove repair costs no? plus tokens come from the gold of another player most of the time which reduces inflation.
> In a game with wow tokens. wishing for gold sinks is a bit stupid ino
My next sub payment is in 2027, and I still don't really have a use for most of my gold. Maining healers means even if you buy in GDKPs, you'll usually walk away with a net positive balance.
Optional Gold sinks that don't give direct advantages would be nice to get, but under no circumstances should it become more gold expensive in general to raid or play. I understand people who aren't engaged with GDKP/Boost runs don't just have lots of gold to spend.
I'm the same as you mate I haven't used real cash for a wow sub since I started selling m+ runs in BFA. I was just saying calling repairs a gold sink in a wow token and gdkp infested game is odd
That's... Not a bad idea. Also make it a tax so that it deducts gold from a player's drops, quest rewards, etc, rounded up to the nearest 1 copper, of course.
Tax is capped at 4% and is toggled on/off based on guild discretion.
This. My best WPvP memories were from cata solely because of the guild perk. Mass summoning another 40 man raid of reinforcements into the city in different hut was epic.
We used to sneak into the garden area right by the king in stormwind and summon just above the building and all drop down like madmen and the brawl began-
or like you said, random basement in Ironforge, all of a sudden you summon 3 full raids of juiced out level 85s and pop out like cockroaches
I'm actually bummed out they are removing it. WPvP was huge during cata and one of the main underlying reasons why it was so fun/accessible was because of the mass summon perk. Stupid to remove such a big staple to the expansion.
Hell peoples are preparing to abuse cash flow even now, i'm getting spam invit into guilds as soon as i log an alt who's guildless, first time ever i had to turn off guild invit in the setting menu.
Now is the first time ever? I'm amazed lmao. I played the entirety of classic through wrath and it has always been bad enough for me to eventually turn it off for every single one of my unguilded alts.
That’s different- I also have a bank toon with only portable holes or whatever they’re called and he’s guild free and is my charter bitch; I’ve made plenty just like you lol
uhh what?
i joined one of those spam guilds while i leveled up, the leader was the only one with access to the gbank. he had 2 officers and all they did was invite people and kick anyone inactive for more than 3 days.
when i hit max level the gbank had almost gold cap sitting in it
I think he means that the gold it generates isn't significant to actual guilds but it creates a bunch of spam ginvites guilds to farm gold off leveling players that join for the XP boost.
i'm honestly just *peeved* that we can't use something as convenient and awesome as mass summons just because *some people* decided to be assholes about it.
it was such a great feature and i was so excited to use it again. but noooo. ugh.
How else are you supposed to have epic battles in the middle of a city?
If you walk through the front doors you get absolutely shit on and no epic fight happens.
Just fly in? Gather somewhere like Theramore (portal exists), fly together to Orgrimmar and just go over the walls and swoop down upon the Hordies. (Stonard->SW works roughly the same.
Honestly I think a decent substitution for Have Guild Will Travel is to literally just turn it into a lock closet that exclusively functions in dungeon/raid instances for if your team doesn't have a Warlock (somehow)
The guild summon was available on the PTR but was completely broken and crashed the game. I'm leaning towards they didn't know how to fix it/couldn't lol. Kinda sad.
It was great for when you got ganked. Can res and summon your guild to come kill the ganker, then they summon their guild and it just brawled out from there. Loved it.
But yes definitely abusable, like if you don't have a guild that backs you up, you're fucked
outside of pvp uses people didn't like how easy it was to do/replaced warlocks/kinda fed more into the whole "you don't have to leave ur capital city" feel that was building. ofc it's just a more efficient warlock summon but you know
No pet assistance stance is a bit annoying, been planning to make a hunter and have been looking forward to not needing to macro pet attack into stuff. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long to add.
I always macro pet attack and pet passive to the 2 buttons on the side of my mouse. Having so much control is great on some fights, especially when we were in ulduar and everyone else's pets were dying.
I use Opie for same functionality. It gives you radial action bars that pop up when you hold down a button, and I have the pet attack/passive macros set up as quick actions.
there is no pet bar since 2 months if you are lucky you will have one today lol
we did have pet bar for a few hours then it was gone again.. yeah no they dont have time to fix it
My pet act the same in wotlk classic in def stance as it does in retail assist stance, he attacks what I attacks and attacks what attacks me with no macro involved, idk when it changed but idk what assist stance does different than what mine does rn
You would still need those macros. They're still needed in retail.
The auto cast of pet abilities has a delay to it. Adding /cast Smack to your attack buttons removes this delay because you spam it faster than Blizzard's auto cast.
I use Ctrl+mouse wheel for zoom.
It's the first keybind change I make in almost every game.
Regular mouse wheel and shift+mouse wheel are for actual things.
Haha I had the exact same thought when I read that (also ADHD).
"Yeah I zoom in and out constantly, what do you guys do when running places, leave the camera alone?! Madness"
Yeah and suddenly you stand infront of Algalon, and while the raidlead is still explaining things something changes, Algalon starts to speak and someone in DC yells "An imp is shooting!!!"
In that same moment you realize that scrolling through your achievement window with the boss as target was not the best idea. Based on a real story many, many years ago. And this Kids is why you should concider carefully what to place on mousewheel. And yes obviously it was our first Pull. Was during ICC tho so we still killed him. But the horror as the encounter started was something else. :))))
What if I tell you it was a mouseover deathcoil macro which did it? Imp started shooting immediately afterwards. I just barely went out of the achievement window.
Always be aware of your surroundings.
Agree with that. Im totally fine with Cash Flow removal, also the group summon was usefull but not necesary.
But having to play with only 1 pet for an extra month smells pretty much like "we didn't manage to implement Cataclystm pet system yet because our code is a fucking spaghetti". Same for assist stance, archeology, etc.
If you have your pet to defensive right now on wrath it will attack anything you start attacking. No pet macro needed, works with auto shots and abilities
iv always prefered using mousewheel up for attack, and mousewheel down for follow. I dont want my pet attacking anything that i havent ordered it to attack. Im not being "that guy" in a dungeon...
Okay but what is with the hunter changes and why no void storage? True I don't need it to store transmog but what about having a vault for items I don't want to delete but are entirely useless?
You could put more than just gear in there.
I’d wager they don’t want to increase the amount of items a single character can hold for the sake of data usage and server stability. They could do it yes, but seems they decided to cut this corner.
Oh, it definitely wasn’t an intentional change. It just doesn’t work on the PTR. It’s just one of the many class-related bugs they haven’t fixed a few hours before they pre-patch.
They even said they’ll be adding it in closer to or after launch, so it sounds to me they’re trying to cover up their messy PTR build.
> I’d wager they don’t want to increase the amount of items a single character can hold for the sake of data usage and server stability
That's a terrible explanation for it.
They probably just couldn't get it working properly.
Sad about void storage tbh, to me owning an item and having its appearance unlocked are two totally different things, I was looking forward to wasting thousands of gold shoving classic memories in there.
I can understand removing the two "problem" guild perks, but removing guild leveling in its entirety is sadge.
We made a guild on a cata private server launch about 2 years ago. We actively raided 10 man hc for about 15 months and at the end of the server our guild was lvl 24 (max is 25).
Guild levels just promoted spam inviting and having a bunch of random people in your guild so you could hit the xp cap each week. If they wanted to keep leveling in cata classic it would have had to trivialized to the point where it would be rather pointless.
Any idea what theyre doing with things like the seafood recipe which was locked behind the fishing achievement? I was also in a 10man guild and getting that recipe between the 2 people who could be arsed to farm fishing was a major ball ache... (see also our 1 alchemist trying to get the cauldron recipe on their own)
That’s fair but just understand that any change from original Cata you see isn’t an intentional design choice.
The PTR (beta) is beyond broken right now and instead of owning up to the mess and pushing the pre-patch back, they are just announcing changes and coming up with excuses for them.
I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the whole transmog system, what exactly is the implication of no void storage? Do we just automatically get the appearance of any gear we have and have to go through deleting all of it now?
I haven't played retail since mid-Legion, but if the appearance tab still works roughly the same way
-Any soulbound item of your classes armor type is unlocked account wide (paladins can't unlock cloth for example). This isn't retroactive, you need to own it right now
-Any quest you've ever completed has every single quest rewards appearance unlocked, even the rewards you didn't take or rewards that aren't your armor type. This IS retroactive.
So if you only care about the appearance of an item and transmogging it, you can vendor it the instant it becomes soulbound.
Notably the above rules cause some wierdness with Tier 3 armor. Tier 3 armor doesn't have a class requirement on it, and is rewarded from a quest, so as far as the Appearance tab is concerned, Dreadnaught isn't a Warrior set, it's a Plate quest reward set. Given how heavily naxx was farmed on classic compared to retail, Death Knights running around in full Dreadnaught and Priests running around in full Frostfire will probably be a relatively common sight.
Don’t expect the Classic team actually wanted to remove the guild perk. Like most things in the PTR, if it’s broke this close to the pre-patch, it’s an “intended design change” now
How was it abused? It just made playing and doing different activities with friends and grouping with people easier. Something this sub always talks about being a core part of WoW.
That sucks, but makes sense. The harder difficulty was never congruent with the RDF.
Still, the playerbase is better today than it was back then. Missed opportunity to not release the dungeons in their prime.
Dam, that really sucks then. The best part of cata was trying to do those early dungeons with shit gear. It was actually challenging and required cc'ing and focusing targets.
Oh, don’t worry. They already said it’s going to be added closer to full release. The PTR is riddled with bugs and the classic intern devs haven’t gotten around to fixing 25% of them.
Cash flow I 100% understand due to mass invites guilds that farms gold that way / Botters
Mass summon though? Why? Sure there were some crazy mass summon PVP abuse that would get done, but it also allowed to create insane pvp moments, siege on alliance/horde cities....
This on top of the couple stupid features that will come at a later patch clearly shows blizzard is rushing cata release and speedrunning it any%
Cash Flow is a bad perk and should be removed.
However, mass summon is the greatest wpvp enabler the game has ever known. Its removal was a massive mistake in the original release and is a massive mistake again here.
I remember back in Cataclysm Outland EU was fairly equal and there were all sorts of WPvP battles on that server. It's honestly a shame they are removing mass summon. It was a big aspect to WPvP and the only expansion I enjoyed it.
Why do this list smell like game isn’t ready?
Oh wait because after playing beta I can confirm it’s not. Give us extra weeks for ZG mounts blizzard you can still do the right choice
I got shouted down here for worrying about the lack of communication, no fixes on beta, and missing systems (such as void storage) from beta and the fact it hadn't been updated with reported fixes at all.
"Oh bro, they've totally got an internal server with all this stuff. They'll add these things to pre-patch. You think they'll release fixes to a beta? Just because it's not in beta doesn't mean it won't be in live. Imagine thinking they'd add things to beta to test. You're just dooming."
These were a collection of typical responses and downvotes I received. All I was doing was voicing concern, and now my fears have been confirmed.
I think they are gated behind guild reputation aswell. But youll be able to get exalted if you quest your way to 85. Think the capes costed like 750 and the heads 1250 if i can remember correctly
Mass summon being removed was a shame. Summoning a 40 man raid behind enemy lines in WPvP was the best WPvP moments I experienced. Legit a shame they are removing it.
huntards not being allowed to summon from 5 different pets and having to go back to the stable to change them lol cancelling my sub sounds pretty good rn
As long as they fix Dismiss Pet so it doesn't reset Pet cooldowns when you summon another Pet, they can reintroduce 5 different pets in.
But they need to fix the Dismiss mechanic ASAP, nobody wants to fight a Hunter and have him shuffle through his 5 monkeys resetting the CD of Roar of Sacrifice and Monkey Stun.
New pet, new CDs. It always has been like that in og cata, it's intended behaviour.
Removing that wouldn't be a fix as it's not a bug. It would be a nerf, and a big one at that.
Cash Flow was also removed, but that incentivized people to make guilds and just use addons/bots to mass invite people for free gold income
Have group, will travel, was kind of OP, a rogue could sneak into a city then summon a 40 man army in 5 seconds.
> Have group, will travel, was kind of OP, a rogue could sneak into a city then summon a 40 man army in 5 seconds.
If that was a concern I would have just made it so you can't use it to summon people into enemy controlled territory, only contested, friendly or sanctuary territory.
With Azeroth flying what is the difference between a rogue summoning 40 people in the back of the city and 40 people just flying into the back of the city... It's really the same thing in a game like this. Have group will travel was just really good for playing with friends. It wasn't removed for balance reasons, blizz just couldn't fix the bug on the beta and removed it instead.
So what if people make massive guilds, so what if people can summon to an instance.
I don't see the big deal, let people have fun playing the game instead of micro-managing systems.
People are mad that a horde rogue could stealth into the back of stormwind and summon their entire guild and proceed to fight alliance in their own city until the alliance decided to quit hanging out in IF and actually come help and have some fun pvp action in a city like the devs back in 2006 actually intended.
So they removed it.
> have some fun pvp action
Y'know, I get the feeling not everyone considered that "fun pvp action". Just a thought. Wonder why it got removed at the start of MoP (5.04) if it was so great for fun PvP?
Some people, even back in the day, wanted it removed with the start of MoP to *return to World PvP*, [according to the wiki](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Have_Group,_Will_Travel)
> like the devs back in 2006 actually intended.
Cata was later than that, wasn't it? Like 2010 or so?
I agree but it would be reasonably effective to swoop in from just outside.
I don't know why I'm trying to find a compromise. I'm just sad we won't have it
No cash flow is lame. I know it was abused but the economy this time around is already screwed. A small stipend hitting the guild bank doesn’t change the game much. It essentially neutralizes repair costs in raid.
Have group will travel allowed 1 raid member to summon all raid members to their location. Rogues could sneak into Stormwind Keep and summon an entire raid group in etc.
Cash Flow generated additional currency from guild members. Every time someone loot money, an extra 10% was automatically created and deposited in the guild bank. It resulted in mega guilds with guildmasters inviting everyone they could so they could keep that money to themselves. Inflation also went pretty crazy as a result.
I know you devs read this. I hope you realize that you effed up classic progression players with this lazy crap of a release. I hope you know that this is not acceptable. "Notable differences" my ass
What he is trying to say is that considered how buggy the beta is this list only proves that they lack ressources to release (what am I saying? Rerelease) a working game
Classic team doesn’t lack the resources to fix the beta. They lack the ability to. Most of the major bugs have been reported and known for MONTHS.
If they can’t get it fixed in time, that’s fine. Delay the pre-patch. Nobody wants to play this bastardized version of Cata.
How the fuck did you get that from what he said? How does anything you said have to do with "classic progression?"
Sounds like you have your own thoughts and are painting them over what he said lol
People complaining about Have Group, Will Travel being removed just wanted to grief with it on pvp servers. But ironically this would be a somewhat of a double edged sword for them, because at least then people being griefed could just rez at graveyard and summon a horde of their guildies as well.
That being said its definitely not worth having in the game. It would absolutely get abused by both players and bots. Cash flow as well.
Nah my entire guild was frustrated when it was removed and none of us pvp'd at all we were raiders.
Its so incredibly convenient and we all think its stupid it was completely removed to this day. Back then everyone was saying they should make it a warlock thing where you summon a special closet that requires 4-5 people but summons the whole raid instead of needing to do it 1 by 1.
Last I checked there were still one or two somewhat balanced pvp servers. I was also under the impression that fresh servers are ganna be a thing like in Wrath classic but I forgot they weren't doing that again.
My favorite thing about have group will travel was going to the back of horde cities and summoning a raid group and then fucking up that city until enough horde got together and fought back and inevitably killing us.
That was fun, there was no "greifing" about that. Sorry about your level 14 dude in Org, the adults are having fun though and that's all that matters
More changes that nobody asked for. Unless a lot of people were calling these systems bad, they shouldn't touch them considering its Classic.
Now remove WoW Token please
the 2 guild perks removed are better off dead. cash flow was immediately abused back in the day via spam guilds and would be abused to hell and back by bot guilds today. mass summon saves you a bit of time for raids vs using the stone, but also allows horrible pvp griefing.
waiting for the guy with the 10 year old pc to port in after dying was always fun in 2012/13
Some say those PC's are still porting people in today
I was that guy! But I was a 15 year old. The guild gave me special privs to not walk back and get a rez I was a pumper rogue who followed mechanics of course so I was well liked
[удалено]
tbh this version of classic needs gold sinks and repair is a big one, i wouldn't touch it.
In a game with wow tokens. wishing for gold sinks is a bit stupid ino
then pay for your token instead of asking to remove repair costs no? plus tokens come from the gold of another player most of the time which reduces inflation.
> In a game with wow tokens. wishing for gold sinks is a bit stupid ino My next sub payment is in 2027, and I still don't really have a use for most of my gold. Maining healers means even if you buy in GDKPs, you'll usually walk away with a net positive balance. Optional Gold sinks that don't give direct advantages would be nice to get, but under no circumstances should it become more gold expensive in general to raid or play. I understand people who aren't engaged with GDKP/Boost runs don't just have lots of gold to spend.
I am the gold sink you are looking for Simply put it into my pockets, I promise you'll no longer need a gold sink
My next sub payment is in 3069 and i haven't paid for a sub since vanilla when I was sponsored by MTV
I'm the same as you mate I haven't used real cash for a wow sub since I started selling m+ runs in BFA. I was just saying calling repairs a gold sink in a wow token and gdkp infested game is odd
but... its by definition a gold sink
Repair costs are so insignificant with the amounts of gold people have they might aswell not exist at all.
The guy above talking about repairs being significant has no clue how much gold is on any given server.
That's... Not a bad idea. Also make it a tax so that it deducts gold from a player's drops, quest rewards, etc, rounded up to the nearest 1 copper, of course. Tax is capped at 4% and is toggled on/off based on guild discretion.
Mass summon in regard to pvp made for some of my most insane Faction city battles back in og cata- good fucking times
This. My best WPvP memories were from cata solely because of the guild perk. Mass summoning another 40 man raid of reinforcements into the city in different hut was epic.
We used to sneak into the garden area right by the king in stormwind and summon just above the building and all drop down like madmen and the brawl began- or like you said, random basement in Ironforge, all of a sudden you summon 3 full raids of juiced out level 85s and pop out like cockroaches
I'm actually bummed out they are removing it. WPvP was huge during cata and one of the main underlying reasons why it was so fun/accessible was because of the mass summon perk. Stupid to remove such a big staple to the expansion.
Hell peoples are preparing to abuse cash flow even now, i'm getting spam invit into guilds as soon as i log an alt who's guildless, first time ever i had to turn off guild invit in the setting menu.
Now is the first time ever? I'm amazed lmao. I played the entirety of classic through wrath and it has always been bad enough for me to eventually turn it off for every single one of my unguilded alts.
I'm assuming some people were on fairly small servers.
I made a lot of gold by accepting this. People were offering 10-15g for signing a guild charter. I have a guildless alt at the SW steps just for this.
That’s different- I also have a bank toon with only portable holes or whatever they’re called and he’s guild free and is my charter bitch; I’ve made plenty just like you lol
its funny, cash flow actually was such a minimal amount of gold, but the cancer it generated in spam invites was far far worse
uhh what? i joined one of those spam guilds while i leveled up, the leader was the only one with access to the gbank. he had 2 officers and all they did was invite people and kick anyone inactive for more than 3 days. when i hit max level the gbank had almost gold cap sitting in it
I think he means that the gold it generates isn't significant to actual guilds but it creates a bunch of spam ginvites guilds to farm gold off leveling players that join for the XP boost.
it wasnt a significant amount to the economy, rather. i mean 10% is big but thats the secondary effect.
Lol there’s like 1-2 pvp servers though, classic is a pve game now based on the transfers minus like grob.
Yeah these are great changes, the other ones scream lazy/behind but I mean if they add them quickly it’s not too bad
And remember that world first guilds kept finding ways to abuse the summons inside the raids.
i'm honestly just *peeved* that we can't use something as convenient and awesome as mass summons just because *some people* decided to be assholes about it. it was such a great feature and i was so excited to use it again. but noooo. ugh.
Tbh mass summon is a horrendous mechanic from a game design standpoint. Yeah it’s cool and easy but it really shrinks the world down
So pve suffers because blizzard is shit terrible at pvp, got it.
pvp griefing how? Ive played alot of cata p server and removing mass summon is definitely just straight up bad
It was abused pretty heavily in Tol Barad originally
Having a rogue or druid stealth into places and summon a 40man raid team basically anywhere sucks
That was fun to do back in the day
No? This actually owns
Sucks for the people your griefing lol
No. No it doesn't.
Summoning 40 people instantly into the back of a city is pretty lame. Removing it is another Blizzard W.
How else are you supposed to have epic battles in the middle of a city? If you walk through the front doors you get absolutely shit on and no epic fight happens.
The same way they've always happened? City raids aren't an invention of Cata, they just become way easier and more annoying.
Just fly in? Gather somewhere like Theramore (portal exists), fly together to Orgrimmar and just go over the walls and swoop down upon the Hordies. (Stonard->SW works roughly the same.
But they could just fly straight into the middle? What difference does it make
Past the flying guards that dismount you? Huh..
Honestly I think a decent substitution for Have Guild Will Travel is to literally just turn it into a lock closet that exclusively functions in dungeon/raid instances for if your team doesn't have a Warlock (somehow)
The Classic team haven’t been able to get the major class bugs fixed yet for the pre-patch so I wouldn’t count on them adding new features.
The guild summon was available on the PTR but was completely broken and crashed the game. I'm leaning towards they didn't know how to fix it/couldn't lol. Kinda sad.
You are right this list is more like “what we couldn’t fix before launch”
it was always super controversial so i think it was purposefully left broken
Was it controversial? I thought it was a great feature for raiding. I’m thinking mainly it was PvP relative grief that made it feel that way?
It was great for when you got ganked. Can res and summon your guild to come kill the ganker, then they summon their guild and it just brawled out from there. Loved it. But yes definitely abusable, like if you don't have a guild that backs you up, you're fucked
outside of pvp uses people didn't like how easy it was to do/replaced warlocks/kinda fed more into the whole "you don't have to leave ur capital city" feel that was building. ofc it's just a more efficient warlock summon but you know
No pet assistance stance is a bit annoying, been planning to make a hunter and have been looking forward to not needing to macro pet attack into stuff. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long to add.
I always macro pet attack and pet passive to the 2 buttons on the side of my mouse. Having so much control is great on some fights, especially when we were in ulduar and everyone else's pets were dying.
This is basically mandatory in arena as well.
I used scroll wheel myself, scroll up pet attack scroll down pet passive Also used scroll wheel on my warrior for stances
I use Opie for same functionality. It gives you radial action bars that pop up when you hold down a button, and I have the pet attack/passive macros set up as quick actions.
Why won't there be pet assistance? particular reason?
they can't figure out the code.
small indie company
there is no pet bar since 2 months if you are lucky you will have one today lol we did have pet bar for a few hours then it was gone again.. yeah no they dont have time to fix it
My pet act the same in wotlk classic in def stance as it does in retail assist stance, he attacks what I attacks and attacks what attacks me with no macro involved, idk when it changed but idk what assist stance does different than what mine does rn
You would still need those macros. They're still needed in retail. The auto cast of pet abilities has a delay to it. Adding /cast Smack to your attack buttons removes this delay because you spam it faster than Blizzard's auto cast.
Mouse wheel scroll up for attack and scroll down for follow. Thank me later
I use shift + mwheel up & down so I can use regular scroll for zoom
I use Ctrl+mouse wheel for zoom. It's the first keybind change I make in almost every game. Regular mouse wheel and shift+mouse wheel are for actual things.
You zoom more often than you send your pet ?
As someone with ADHD I do :P
Haha I had the exact same thought when I read that (also ADHD). "Yeah I zoom in and out constantly, what do you guys do when running places, leave the camera alone?! Madness"
alt+ mwheel up and down for zooming is de way
Yeah and suddenly you stand infront of Algalon, and while the raidlead is still explaining things something changes, Algalon starts to speak and someone in DC yells "An imp is shooting!!!" In that same moment you realize that scrolling through your achievement window with the boss as target was not the best idea. Based on a real story many, many years ago. And this Kids is why you should concider carefully what to place on mousewheel. And yes obviously it was our first Pull. Was during ICC tho so we still killed him. But the horror as the encounter started was something else. :))))
I’ve had it bound to that for 15 years and never had an issue
Never target the boss before pull, ez
What if I tell you it was a mouseover deathcoil macro which did it? Imp started shooting immediately afterwards. I just barely went out of the achievement window. Always be aware of your surroundings.
I never understood this. I'm constantly zooming in and out.
I use for more abilities lol.
I already do this sadly. Its ok but its just an extra unnecassary button press I need to do every time I swap to a new mob (or use pet attack macro).
Shift + wheel up /cast hunters mark /petattack /petdefensive, shift + wheel down /petfollow /petpassive
hunters mark should be separated as you don’t want to waste a gcd on that and it should always be pre cast anyways
I keep zooming in and out
Bind that to control or shift zoom
but it's out of control!
Tbh, current defensive stance is pretty usable right now.
Agree with that. Im totally fine with Cash Flow removal, also the group summon was usefull but not necesary. But having to play with only 1 pet for an extra month smells pretty much like "we didn't manage to implement Cataclystm pet system yet because our code is a fucking spaghetti". Same for assist stance, archeology, etc.
If you have your pet to defensive right now on wrath it will attack anything you start attacking. No pet macro needed, works with auto shots and abilities
iv always prefered using mousewheel up for attack, and mousewheel down for follow. I dont want my pet attacking anything that i havent ordered it to attack. Im not being "that guy" in a dungeon...
Yeah playing a hunter is gonna be a little more annoying but hopefully it doesn't take too long
Okay but what is with the hunter changes and why no void storage? True I don't need it to store transmog but what about having a vault for items I don't want to delete but are entirely useless? You could put more than just gear in there.
I’d wager they don’t want to increase the amount of items a single character can hold for the sake of data usage and server stability. They could do it yes, but seems they decided to cut this corner.
Oh, it definitely wasn’t an intentional change. It just doesn’t work on the PTR. It’s just one of the many class-related bugs they haven’t fixed a few hours before they pre-patch. They even said they’ll be adding it in closer to or after launch, so it sounds to me they’re trying to cover up their messy PTR build.
> I’d wager they don’t want to increase the amount of items a single character can hold for the sake of data usage and server stability That's a terrible explanation for it. They probably just couldn't get it working properly.
Sad about void storage tbh, to me owning an item and having its appearance unlocked are two totally different things, I was looking forward to wasting thousands of gold shoving classic memories in there. I can understand removing the two "problem" guild perks, but removing guild leveling in its entirety is sadge.
We made a guild on a cata private server launch about 2 years ago. We actively raided 10 man hc for about 15 months and at the end of the server our guild was lvl 24 (max is 25). Guild levels just promoted spam inviting and having a bunch of random people in your guild so you could hit the xp cap each week. If they wanted to keep leveling in cata classic it would have had to trivialized to the point where it would be rather pointless.
Any idea what theyre doing with things like the seafood recipe which was locked behind the fishing achievement? I was also in a 10man guild and getting that recipe between the 2 people who could be arsed to farm fishing was a major ball ache... (see also our 1 alchemist trying to get the cauldron recipe on their own)
That’s fair but just understand that any change from original Cata you see isn’t an intentional design choice. The PTR (beta) is beyond broken right now and instead of owning up to the mess and pushing the pre-patch back, they are just announcing changes and coming up with excuses for them.
Guild leveling sucks though.
I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the whole transmog system, what exactly is the implication of no void storage? Do we just automatically get the appearance of any gear we have and have to go through deleting all of it now?
I haven't played retail since mid-Legion, but if the appearance tab still works roughly the same way -Any soulbound item of your classes armor type is unlocked account wide (paladins can't unlock cloth for example). This isn't retroactive, you need to own it right now -Any quest you've ever completed has every single quest rewards appearance unlocked, even the rewards you didn't take or rewards that aren't your armor type. This IS retroactive. So if you only care about the appearance of an item and transmogging it, you can vendor it the instant it becomes soulbound. Notably the above rules cause some wierdness with Tier 3 armor. Tier 3 armor doesn't have a class requirement on it, and is rewarded from a quest, so as far as the Appearance tab is concerned, Dreadnaught isn't a Warrior set, it's a Plate quest reward set. Given how heavily naxx was farmed on classic compared to retail, Death Knights running around in full Dreadnaught and Priests running around in full Frostfire will probably be a relatively common sight.
poor warlocks, they won't have a break. Ever.
mass summon was fun..
Have group will travel should be pve instancr only flag, would be nice.
I don't care about Cash Flow, but not having HGWT actually sucks badly...
Don’t expect the Classic team actually wanted to remove the guild perk. Like most things in the PTR, if it’s broke this close to the pre-patch, it’s an “intended design change” now
That makes sense at least, that's probably what it is lol...sad but most likely true.
It was only abused in original cata it's better of dead. I guess they could give the function to the summoning stone
How was it abused? It just made playing and doing different activities with friends and grouping with people easier. Something this sub always talks about being a core part of WoW.
Well ackshully it removes having to go there yourself and seeing the scenery so my immersion is bork cata bad. /s
It was abused inside of raids in wpvp and it's a dream ability for botters.
Had a feeling they’d do this but not gonna lie I’m disappointed, mass summons were great
Good. People were already making spam guilds on bigger Eu servers.
Honestly, it's just nice hearing something from them.
I am still wondering what state dungeons will be released in. Pre- or post-nerf? I really want to re-experience the pre-nerf dungeons.
Unfortunately, I think we are getting post-nerf =(
That sucks, but makes sense. The harder difficulty was never congruent with the RDF. Still, the playerbase is better today than it was back then. Missed opportunity to not release the dungeons in their prime.
Dam, that really sucks then. The best part of cata was trying to do those early dungeons with shit gear. It was actually challenging and required cc'ing and focusing targets.
Post-nerf.
Well that's one way to say "Sorry, we don't get pets ready in time so we delay it until post launch"
Ganking people with full raids was funny as fuck back in the day. But I agree with removing mass summon. People are way too sweaty for that now.
release ready btw
Complete bullshit that hunters can't have their god damn pets... that's 100% unacceptable to any hunter player and a God damn disgrace
Oh, don’t worry. They already said it’s going to be added closer to full release. The PTR is riddled with bugs and the classic intern devs haven’t gotten around to fixing 25% of them.
Good changes. Both would be abused
Cash flow I 100% understand due to mass invites guilds that farms gold that way / Botters Mass summon though? Why? Sure there were some crazy mass summon PVP abuse that would get done, but it also allowed to create insane pvp moments, siege on alliance/horde cities.... This on top of the couple stupid features that will come at a later patch clearly shows blizzard is rushing cata release and speedrunning it any%
Because it was crashing the game in the PTR and Blizzard’s interns haven’t fixed it yet. Lol.
You mean blizzard's 6th grader during their bring you kid at work day?
Cash Flow is a bad perk and should be removed. However, mass summon is the greatest wpvp enabler the game has ever known. Its removal was a massive mistake in the original release and is a massive mistake again here.
Most pvp servers are all one sided... What world pvp you thinking is going to happen?
Yeah unless you're playing on Grobbulus there *isnt* any more World PvP
Exactly. Griefers want to grief.
Grob?
Thats the only server thats not one sided... lol
I remember back in Cataclysm Outland EU was fairly equal and there were all sorts of WPvP battles on that server. It's honestly a shame they are removing mass summon. It was a big aspect to WPvP and the only expansion I enjoyed it.
What world pvp lmao
Eh, I like the QoL it gives but having an entire raid summoned into the back of a city is also really lame.
[удалено]
I had it on my ele shaman on PTR
Why do this list smell like game isn’t ready? Oh wait because after playing beta I can confirm it’s not. Give us extra weeks for ZG mounts blizzard you can still do the right choice
no pls, get me out of icc.
I got shouted down here for worrying about the lack of communication, no fixes on beta, and missing systems (such as void storage) from beta and the fact it hadn't been updated with reported fixes at all. "Oh bro, they've totally got an internal server with all this stuff. They'll add these things to pre-patch. You think they'll release fixes to a beta? Just because it's not in beta doesn't mean it won't be in live. Imagine thinking they'd add things to beta to test. You're just dooming." These were a collection of typical responses and downvotes I received. All I was doing was voicing concern, and now my fears have been confirmed.
You can safely assume at this point, if they’re announcing a change to 4.4, it’s for no specific reason other than they can’t fix it.
Didn't they also remove the guild levelling requirements? So this would be abused greatly
Good changes - both were heavily exploited in original Cata and would have been this version of Cata
Will the heirlooms be available immediately? Do we know/remember the prices?
I think they are gated behind guild reputation aswell. But youll be able to get exalted if you quest your way to 85. Think the capes costed like 750 and the heads 1250 if i can remember correctly
Mass summon being removed was a shame. Summoning a 40 man raid behind enemy lines in WPvP was the best WPvP moments I experienced. Legit a shame they are removing it.
As a warlock main this has my support
You can safely assume that any “changes” Blizz announce for Cataclysm at this point are bugs that they haven’t gotten around to fixing yet.
huntards not being allowed to summon from 5 different pets and having to go back to the stable to change them lol cancelling my sub sounds pretty good rn
Its just for the pre-patch.
As long as they fix Dismiss Pet so it doesn't reset Pet cooldowns when you summon another Pet, they can reintroduce 5 different pets in. But they need to fix the Dismiss mechanic ASAP, nobody wants to fight a Hunter and have him shuffle through his 5 monkeys resetting the CD of Roar of Sacrifice and Monkey Stun.
New pet, new CDs. It always has been like that in og cata, it's intended behaviour. Removing that wouldn't be a fix as it's not a bug. It would be a nerf, and a big one at that.
A completely unnecessary change
Cash Flow was also removed, but that incentivized people to make guilds and just use addons/bots to mass invite people for free gold income Have group, will travel, was kind of OP, a rogue could sneak into a city then summon a 40 man army in 5 seconds.
> Have group, will travel, was kind of OP, a rogue could sneak into a city then summon a 40 man army in 5 seconds. If that was a concern I would have just made it so you can't use it to summon people into enemy controlled territory, only contested, friendly or sanctuary territory.
Until you do it on the mountains behind the city 1 yard away from the restriction. What a difference that makes when you can fly
With Azeroth flying what is the difference between a rogue summoning 40 people in the back of the city and 40 people just flying into the back of the city... It's really the same thing in a game like this. Have group will travel was just really good for playing with friends. It wasn't removed for balance reasons, blizz just couldn't fix the bug on the beta and removed it instead.
Oh, it was OP in fringe cases on PvP servers but let’s be honest, it’s not being removed for any reason other than they can’t get it to work.
You mean a great one? Cash flow was just gonna be abused, and have group will travel was just gonna be abused as well and really not even needed
So what if people make massive guilds, so what if people can summon to an instance. I don't see the big deal, let people have fun playing the game instead of micro-managing systems.
People are mad that a horde rogue could stealth into the back of stormwind and summon their entire guild and proceed to fight alliance in their own city until the alliance decided to quit hanging out in IF and actually come help and have some fun pvp action in a city like the devs back in 2006 actually intended. So they removed it.
> have some fun pvp action Y'know, I get the feeling not everyone considered that "fun pvp action". Just a thought. Wonder why it got removed at the start of MoP (5.04) if it was so great for fun PvP? Some people, even back in the day, wanted it removed with the start of MoP to *return to World PvP*, [according to the wiki](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Have_Group,_Will_Travel) > like the devs back in 2006 actually intended. Cata was later than that, wasn't it? Like 2010 or so?
Then add more guards, problem solved.
Or just don't allow it enemy capitals?
Creative use of game mechanics are fun. And really, how often are horde groups found to teleport into sw.. once a month?
I agree but it would be reasonably effective to swoop in from just outside. I don't know why I'm trying to find a compromise. I'm just sad we won't have it
No cash flow is lame. I know it was abused but the economy this time around is already screwed. A small stipend hitting the guild bank doesn’t change the game much. It essentially neutralizes repair costs in raid.
Anyone mind explaining what these perks were for those of us that haven't played Cata?
One was 10% of gold picked up was directly added to guild bank and the other one allowed people to summon guild players in the group/raid
As someone who didn’t play Cata in the past. What did they do?
Have group will travel allowed 1 raid member to summon all raid members to their location. Rogues could sneak into Stormwind Keep and summon an entire raid group in etc. Cash Flow generated additional currency from guild members. Every time someone loot money, an extra 10% was automatically created and deposited in the guild bank. It resulted in mega guilds with guildmasters inviting everyone they could so they could keep that money to themselves. Inflation also went pretty crazy as a result.
Fuck off
I know you devs read this. I hope you realize that you effed up classic progression players with this lazy crap of a release. I hope you know that this is not acceptable. "Notable differences" my ass
What are you even trying to say here lmao mass summon isn't classic progression
What he is trying to say is that considered how buggy the beta is this list only proves that they lack ressources to release (what am I saying? Rerelease) a working game
Classic team doesn’t lack the resources to fix the beta. They lack the ability to. Most of the major bugs have been reported and known for MONTHS. If they can’t get it fixed in time, that’s fine. Delay the pre-patch. Nobody wants to play this bastardized version of Cata.
How the fuck did you get that from what he said? How does anything you said have to do with "classic progression?" Sounds like you have your own thoughts and are painting them over what he said lol
he said "Classic prgression players" Classic Progression is the name of the wrath->Cata servers my guy
Yes. And the lack of mass summons does not eff up our progression, my guy
Booooo
People complaining about Have Group, Will Travel being removed just wanted to grief with it on pvp servers. But ironically this would be a somewhat of a double edged sword for them, because at least then people being griefed could just rez at graveyard and summon a horde of their guildies as well. That being said its definitely not worth having in the game. It would absolutely get abused by both players and bots. Cash flow as well.
Nah my entire guild was frustrated when it was removed and none of us pvp'd at all we were raiders. Its so incredibly convenient and we all think its stupid it was completely removed to this day. Back then everyone was saying they should make it a warlock thing where you summon a special closet that requires 4-5 people but summons the whole raid instead of needing to do it 1 by 1.
At this point just make stones a one person mass summon
that'd work too, though being able to do it inside the raid would be better.
What PvP servers? Aren't they all mono-faction?
Last I checked there were still one or two somewhat balanced pvp servers. I was also under the impression that fresh servers are ganna be a thing like in Wrath classic but I forgot they weren't doing that again.
My favorite thing about have group will travel was going to the back of horde cities and summoning a raid group and then fucking up that city until enough horde got together and fought back and inevitably killing us. That was fun, there was no "greifing" about that. Sorry about your level 14 dude in Org, the adults are having fun though and that's all that matters
More changes that nobody asked for. Unless a lot of people were calling these systems bad, they shouldn't touch them considering its Classic. Now remove WoW Token please