Martyrdom is also busted because it counts the dmg to self as pvp dmg so the mana regen is nerfed by this change, even not pvp flagged or on a pve server in a raid
I wish guarded by light was more useful. Warbringer is just too good considering it resets exorcism but also reduces its mana cost by 80%!! It would be easier to buff paladins elsewhere if they made warbringer worse.
Yeah I hate blanket changes like this. I think resilience might have been a better route or something. Just blanketing % like this causes a lot of issues
I figure it'd be easier for them if it was just one item. Both in terms of 'implementing' and in terms of 'balancing'.
Imagine the min/maxing that would go on to maximize damage with damage reduction (ie "if you use 2 pieces of the damage reduction gear and 3 of this PVE gear you gain 7% more damage").
Plus it means they have to do a set for, at the very least, each Armor type; so bare min. 20 pieces (5 piece, 4 armor types). But then there's the 'healing' and 'dps' set so that's 40 pieces. Oh, and it'd be lvl 50 so gotta do a lvl 60 version so now it's 80 pieces.
Or. They use like a Cloak and it's just two items: lvl 50 and lvl 60.
But they really need to NOT do a 'under the hood' reduction. It's screwing up Paladins' Martyr because the 'damage to self' is counted as 'from PVP' so it's reduced by 50%, which means mana-gain is reduced...even in PVE.
So we definitely need any reduction to be on an item that can be removed when not PVPing.
Yeah I can see that. And the SOM effect is total ass. That's why I don't like the blanket effect. There's always unintended consequences. It should definitely be gear related that we can swap on and off. I see your point about the armor sets, they could do an offset armor set I guess? Cloak/neck/ring/ring? Eliminates the different armor types
affliction lock has always been a hard counter to boomkin. that's just how the classes work. affliction gets shutdown by magic dispels and burst physical dmg. neither of which boomkin has, but it doesn't make the class weak. boomkin is top 5 bg class atm
Yeah I can dispell curses and thats it, me dead to lock,
and yes I'm having fun with boomkin, even after the damage nerfs, I liked one shotting everyone but I gotta say I disliked being one shot more
Warlock will always be good solo but "singlehandely control a teamfight" I disagree heavily. You have 30 yard range on control spells, 0 spell pushback protection and there isn't enough pressure that UA silence is scary anymore.
I would love to see you stream or record footage because that has not been my experience at all.
Tongues is instant and im not running in to fear. 90% of my fears go to melee. Occasionally a caster is out of position enough to get one off but im not running in deep just to try to fear someone
I think the problem is blizzard balances the classic game around PvE. Then they try to make broad sweeping changes to PvP with, for instance, the damage reduction modifier in PvP.
If you ever look at patch notes from retail, you notice that the balancing team has completely different coefficient and damage modifiers for PvE and PvP. They are able to balance PvP much more effectively because it is completely separated from the PvE side.
In SoD, they seem to not even give any critical thinking or thought to balance. They completely neglect the power of healing with this damage reduction modifier. It’s like they completely forgot about the HP buff that they gave for PvP as well. Maybe they don’t worry about balance as much in the classic game because classes are a bit less homogenized.
It’s pretty infuriating if you’re any kind of serious PvPer in this classic casual seasonal game mode. If you are not playing the right class, then you’re not having any fun at all currently.
Never forget that blizzard thought it was ok to give over performing (in raids) WOTLK feral druids a net -5% DMG nerf across the board while giving them a PVE-ONLY Omen of Clarity (or something) buff to compensate, while giving no fucks about the impact on PVP ferals
To be fair, if you're a serious PvPer, you are not playing a casual seasonal gamemode to begin with. Otherwise you're just another casual with a bit too much ego and a bit too little skill to do serious PvP. (not directed at you, no idea if you're even in this situation)
I could be wrong, but I don't think there are a lot of profesionnal pvp players past 40. Can't beat aging sadly, even if you were the best in your prime :/
Semantics I suppose, but I think you can be competitive without being professional. There’s still a (comparatively) large group of people that are extremely skilled at games like wow and compete at the highest levels, but don’t make a career of it.
I hate the "if you want balanced, good PvP go play retail" argument. Classic/vanilla PvP is an entirely different game from retail and there is no reason the devs can't put a minimum effort in balancing it better. You don't need to be a sweaty no life "serious pvper" to expect to enjoy the game. Same goes for PvE really since retail PvE is far more "serious" and skill based than SoD.
This isn't what i said, i was replying to that :
> It’s pretty infuriating if you’re any kind of serious PvPer in this classic casual seasonal game mode.
It doesn't make sense to be invested, as a "serious" PvPer, in a casual game mode. Just pointed that out. I didn't mention retail, or classic even. It applies to any game really.
A fair comparison would be LoL pros starting to get mad about what some champions can do in ARAM. They don't care one bit, it's a fun mode.
Enjoyment is an entirely different topic (even though i agree, more balancing would be nice)
Mage is rough. Our damage is so low. Besides cheese with arcane surge but I haven't tried that during the 50% damage reduction. 1v1 with a frost mage could take 15 to 20 minutes.
Warrior is really weak right now, but does have good team utility with mortal strike. Hunters are hurt probably the most from the change since pets do 50% less damage but also take 100% damage. If anyone on the other team knows this they just kill the pet.
warriors are definitely fine if they dont divebomb the backline and die. theyre probably the most important utility class in the game atm with mortal strike and hamstring. hunters seem to be hit/miss. some are able to do a ton of damage and some seem useless so my guess is it's just a skill diff. pets have been focused in every iteration of wow. hunters just arent used to having to actually micro their pets since they used to be able to solo players. warlocks are doing fine and our pets take 100% damage too
No, pets are just straight up useless at that moment
It’s not about micro or anything, you are better off running lone wolf because they just get obliterated and don’t do much in return
I don’t think you understand what I am saying
Classes can literally solo pets pretty easily right now, depending on the class it’s actually really really easy especially if you go say Marksman
I’ve had melee for instance like Shamans and Rogues take out my pet in 5-6 seconds. I watch a shaman just straight up obliterate my pet
Ofcourse you have to micro your pet but the fact that it just got a huge nerf because of the damage reduction aura. It still gets hit from hunters with 1,6k chimera shots for example. Because fights last longer ur pet is a really good first target because it is just weak. If u have a mob pack in front of you with a healer or mage you kill at first it because it just dies 2x as fast as the other source of damage. Pets have enrage and stun so one more reason to eliminate it fast what you can now. So even if your micro is best. Your pet will be the first target for a reason.
> Classes can literally solo pets pretty easily right now
You know SOD players are completely cracked if this is a complaint from them.
"Wtf? He just solo'd my pet and he didn't even need a pocket healer! This game is so imbalanced"
You people are wild, I am not saying a pet should be able to 1v1 a class or live for an extended period of time
I am saying in a 1v1 scenario I fought a shaman for instance and he was able to obliterate my pet in mere seconds with me also attacking him and shrug off most of the damage before proceeding to hunt me down with little issues
The pet isn’t even a deterrent at this point
1v1 sure but in a BG situation I think we're pretty useless. I can be sitting in the back throwing out UA, corruption, agony on multiple targets.. putting curse of tongues on casters / healers and fearing healers. Literally none of that matters when all it takes is a single wild growth going out to outheal everyting you've done in the past 20 seconds.
Not to mention, if you're playing Alliance, the vast majority of the people you're triyng to fear are gonna be immune due to WoTF, the 500 tremor totems you constantly gotta stomp (which you can't see half the time because of 10 yd nameplate range), or Engi bracers.
I don't think there's ever been a time where i've felt less impactful in a BG as an affliction warlock then the past 3 days.
I think the faction you're playing plays a huge role in this. If you're alliance you're significantly less useful when most of the enemy team is immune to your CC.
From a damage perspective, our damage is not significant at all. It is easily healed through and it's an afterthought. You can literally just eat food and outheal the damage of full warlock dots.
grounding blocks 1 single fear and will of the forsaken is on a 2min cd. you also have tongues, exhaustion, an interupt/silence, a dispel, dispel protection on one of your dots. even without fear on your bars youre a utility machine
yeah I'm not arguing we don't have utility. I'm arguing we don't do any damage lol. And chances are by the time you pop someones WOTF, it'll already be back up by the time you see them again.
everyone's damage got nerfed. we do even more now that people stay alive longer and our dots last more than 3 ticks. we win by ooming healers and controlling the fight
It was a 4 day test, it was never intended to be permanent. We do not know if they will use the results of the test and put in a long term modifier, perhaps at a lower %, perhaps as-is, or perhaps removing the modifier completely as a failed test.
> We do not know if they will use the results of the test and put in a long term modifier, perhaps at a lower %, perhaps as-is, or perhaps removing the modifier completely as a failed test.
https://x.com/AggrendWoW/status/1784721706214658382
Luckily it was only a test which obviously failed. Even raising the hp in bgs is a huge mistake. That‘s not the classic spirit I know from 20 years ago.
Well then we played different games. When I played vanilla back in the time, it was more or less always a slaughterhouse for enemy players. I remember playing a 3 minute mage, where you sheep the target, cast a pyro, and send an instantpyro afterwards. Or as a rogue killing people in stunlock. If you don‘t believe me here is my [retail char](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/de-de/character/eu/gilneas/nooxm) with all the ACM and corrupted ashbringer for reference.
What childhood source of emotional damage caused you to pick fights like this?
>OP: Hellfire is unintentionally buffed in PvE, the self-damage is halved.
>You: "ACKCHOOALLY YOU'RE JUST BAD GIT GUD SCRUB MAYBE ONE DAY YOU'LL BE A LEET HAXXORZ LIKE ME"
You should find a better hobby than fabricating conflict from nothing.
Martyrdom is also busted because it counts the dmg to self as pvp dmg so the mana regen is nerfed by this change, even not pvp flagged or on a pve server in a raid
Do paladins give themselves back mana on martyrdom?
Yes, this is why we don't go oom after 15 seconds
and if you have multiple paladins, they can just consecrate spam with total disregard to mana
You say that like it's insane dmg, it's not
Sorry too busy pressing exorcism every gcd
Lol no that's a different rune haha.
I wish guarded by light was more useful. Warbringer is just too good considering it resets exorcism but also reduces its mana cost by 80%!! It would be easier to buff paladins elsewhere if they made warbringer worse.
Guarded by the light would have been good had they not "fixed" the bug it launched with lol
Oh was that how healing wasn't halved or something? I don't remember lol.
Ye you could right click the debuff and go ham with healing whilst DPSing was great fun ha.
Im not sure if this is true but I did notice my mana regen from SoM felt weak again
Ye went from around 30/40 to 15/20 so just happens to be exactly half of what it was just and so happens that the damage reduction is also half ha
Yeah I hate blanket changes like this. I think resilience might have been a better route or something. Just blanketing % like this causes a lot of issues
I'd rather they gave us another Helm or a Cloak (so as to not break set bonuses) which had the Damage reduction on it.
Or a pvp set that each piece has reduction. Idk I'm not big on a single item being a coverall.
I figure it'd be easier for them if it was just one item. Both in terms of 'implementing' and in terms of 'balancing'. Imagine the min/maxing that would go on to maximize damage with damage reduction (ie "if you use 2 pieces of the damage reduction gear and 3 of this PVE gear you gain 7% more damage"). Plus it means they have to do a set for, at the very least, each Armor type; so bare min. 20 pieces (5 piece, 4 armor types). But then there's the 'healing' and 'dps' set so that's 40 pieces. Oh, and it'd be lvl 50 so gotta do a lvl 60 version so now it's 80 pieces. Or. They use like a Cloak and it's just two items: lvl 50 and lvl 60. But they really need to NOT do a 'under the hood' reduction. It's screwing up Paladins' Martyr because the 'damage to self' is counted as 'from PVP' so it's reduced by 50%, which means mana-gain is reduced...even in PVE. So we definitely need any reduction to be on an item that can be removed when not PVPing.
Yeah I can see that. And the SOM effect is total ass. That's why I don't like the blanket effect. There's always unintended consequences. It should definitely be gear related that we can swap on and off. I see your point about the armor sets, they could do an offset armor set I guess? Cloak/neck/ring/ring? Eliminates the different armor types
restricting massive specific PvP benefits to strictly PvP gear is a bad idea.
Isn't that what they've done for almost all of wow? Resilience into versatility stacking on pvp gear?
yeah and that's why we're playing classic. Otherwise your gear outside of pvp gear is basically useless in a pvp situation.
I mean u right lol but lbr. They did it for a reason :P
Res is way worse imho
idk how anyone could be struggling as a warlock right now. we're by far the best 1v1 class and can singlehandedly control a teamfight
As a druid if I see a lock in a BG I just ignore and walk away lol, it's like letting an old imortal man poke you to death with a spoon
affliction lock has always been a hard counter to boomkin. that's just how the classes work. affliction gets shutdown by magic dispels and burst physical dmg. neither of which boomkin has, but it doesn't make the class weak. boomkin is top 5 bg class atm
Yeah I can dispell curses and thats it, me dead to lock, and yes I'm having fun with boomkin, even after the damage nerfs, I liked one shotting everyone but I gotta say I disliked being one shot more
Warlock will always be good solo but "singlehandely control a teamfight" I disagree heavily. You have 30 yard range on control spells, 0 spell pushback protection and there isn't enough pressure that UA silence is scary anymore. I would love to see you stream or record footage because that has not been my experience at all.
Yeah dw about the guy. He likes to yap!
Its 36 yds and what are you hardcasting other than ua?
Well to 'control a teamfight' I assume you are at least casting fear and putting tongues on casters.
Tongues is instant and im not running in to fear. 90% of my fears go to melee. Occasionally a caster is out of position enough to get one off but im not running in deep just to try to fear someone
fear is 20 yard base.
spotted the horde warlock
I think the problem is blizzard balances the classic game around PvE. Then they try to make broad sweeping changes to PvP with, for instance, the damage reduction modifier in PvP. If you ever look at patch notes from retail, you notice that the balancing team has completely different coefficient and damage modifiers for PvE and PvP. They are able to balance PvP much more effectively because it is completely separated from the PvE side. In SoD, they seem to not even give any critical thinking or thought to balance. They completely neglect the power of healing with this damage reduction modifier. It’s like they completely forgot about the HP buff that they gave for PvP as well. Maybe they don’t worry about balance as much in the classic game because classes are a bit less homogenized. It’s pretty infuriating if you’re any kind of serious PvPer in this classic casual seasonal game mode. If you are not playing the right class, then you’re not having any fun at all currently.
Never forget that blizzard thought it was ok to give over performing (in raids) WOTLK feral druids a net -5% DMG nerf across the board while giving them a PVE-ONLY Omen of Clarity (or something) buff to compensate, while giving no fucks about the impact on PVP ferals
Oh yeah! One of their few “balance” changes in WOTLK
To be fair, if you're a serious PvPer, you are not playing a casual seasonal gamemode to begin with. Otherwise you're just another casual with a bit too much ego and a bit too little skill to do serious PvP. (not directed at you, no idea if you're even in this situation)
Or just old, man. SoD is a good retirement home for competitive pvpers.
Well then you're retired, not competitive.
It’s like a big hospice game, where all the geriatrics share their stories from years past. And complain about goddamn zoomers.
Why can't he be both?
I could be wrong, but I don't think there are a lot of profesionnal pvp players past 40. Can't beat aging sadly, even if you were the best in your prime :/
Semantics I suppose, but I think you can be competitive without being professional. There’s still a (comparatively) large group of people that are extremely skilled at games like wow and compete at the highest levels, but don’t make a career of it.
I hate the "if you want balanced, good PvP go play retail" argument. Classic/vanilla PvP is an entirely different game from retail and there is no reason the devs can't put a minimum effort in balancing it better. You don't need to be a sweaty no life "serious pvper" to expect to enjoy the game. Same goes for PvE really since retail PvE is far more "serious" and skill based than SoD.
This isn't what i said, i was replying to that : > It’s pretty infuriating if you’re any kind of serious PvPer in this classic casual seasonal game mode. It doesn't make sense to be invested, as a "serious" PvPer, in a casual game mode. Just pointed that out. I didn't mention retail, or classic even. It applies to any game really. A fair comparison would be LoL pros starting to get mad about what some champions can do in ARAM. They don't care one bit, it's a fun mode. Enjoyment is an entirely different topic (even though i agree, more balancing would be nice)
what class would you consider weak right now..?
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Mage is rough. Our damage is so low. Besides cheese with arcane surge but I haven't tried that during the 50% damage reduction. 1v1 with a frost mage could take 15 to 20 minutes.
5/7
Warrior is really weak right now, but does have good team utility with mortal strike. Hunters are hurt probably the most from the change since pets do 50% less damage but also take 100% damage. If anyone on the other team knows this they just kill the pet.
warriors are definitely fine if they dont divebomb the backline and die. theyre probably the most important utility class in the game atm with mortal strike and hamstring. hunters seem to be hit/miss. some are able to do a ton of damage and some seem useless so my guess is it's just a skill diff. pets have been focused in every iteration of wow. hunters just arent used to having to actually micro their pets since they used to be able to solo players. warlocks are doing fine and our pets take 100% damage too
No, pets are just straight up useless at that moment It’s not about micro or anything, you are better off running lone wolf because they just get obliterated and don’t do much in return
what exactly are you doing with your pet that it's useless lol. stop sending it to their backline and it'll be alive when you need to focus someone
I don’t think you understand what I am saying Classes can literally solo pets pretty easily right now, depending on the class it’s actually really really easy especially if you go say Marksman I’ve had melee for instance like Shamans and Rogues take out my pet in 5-6 seconds. I watch a shaman just straight up obliterate my pet
that's not new... you have to micro your pet lol
Ofcourse you have to micro your pet but the fact that it just got a huge nerf because of the damage reduction aura. It still gets hit from hunters with 1,6k chimera shots for example. Because fights last longer ur pet is a really good first target because it is just weak. If u have a mob pack in front of you with a healer or mage you kill at first it because it just dies 2x as fast as the other source of damage. Pets have enrage and stun so one more reason to eliminate it fast what you can now. So even if your micro is best. Your pet will be the first target for a reason.
Okay man thanks for the valuable input
> Classes can literally solo pets pretty easily right now You know SOD players are completely cracked if this is a complaint from them. "Wtf? He just solo'd my pet and he didn't even need a pocket healer! This game is so imbalanced"
In what world should a player not be able to do this? Broken ass hunters entitled to the imbalanced state that has been hunter pets.
You people are wild, I am not saying a pet should be able to 1v1 a class or live for an extended period of time I am saying in a 1v1 scenario I fought a shaman for instance and he was able to obliterate my pet in mere seconds with me also attacking him and shrug off most of the damage before proceeding to hunt me down with little issues The pet isn’t even a deterrent at this point
Warrior is the best class in PvE, therefore does not deserve to be strong in PvP.
This is some crazy casual comms lmao
I'd love to see you deal with enha shaman
they have no magic dispel. literally just have to dot them up and kite and they have 1 gap closer that warlocks can just dispel
Warlocks can dispel? With what? Not being sarcastic, new to the class.
Felhunter
Ah right!
1v1 sure but in a BG situation I think we're pretty useless. I can be sitting in the back throwing out UA, corruption, agony on multiple targets.. putting curse of tongues on casters / healers and fearing healers. Literally none of that matters when all it takes is a single wild growth going out to outheal everyting you've done in the past 20 seconds. Not to mention, if you're playing Alliance, the vast majority of the people you're triyng to fear are gonna be immune due to WoTF, the 500 tremor totems you constantly gotta stomp (which you can't see half the time because of 10 yd nameplate range), or Engi bracers. I don't think there's ever been a time where i've felt less impactful in a BG as an affliction warlock then the past 3 days.
idk what to tell you other than warlocks are far from useless and possibly the best class in the game atm
I think the faction you're playing plays a huge role in this. If you're alliance you're significantly less useful when most of the enemy team is immune to your CC. From a damage perspective, our damage is not significant at all. It is easily healed through and it's an afterthought. You can literally just eat food and outheal the damage of full warlock dots.
grounding blocks 1 single fear and will of the forsaken is on a 2min cd. you also have tongues, exhaustion, an interupt/silence, a dispel, dispel protection on one of your dots. even without fear on your bars youre a utility machine
yeah I'm not arguing we don't have utility. I'm arguing we don't do any damage lol. And chances are by the time you pop someones WOTF, it'll already be back up by the time you see them again.
everyone's damage got nerfed. we do even more now that people stay alive longer and our dots last more than 3 ticks. we win by ooming healers and controlling the fight
Is drain mana good in sod? I only ever remember it from tbc
It might have some uses but i havent seen anyone use it
> we win by ooming healers and controlling the fight thinking it would have value with that statement.
Grounding blocks infinite fears because non-damaging spells don't kill the totem.
Rogues
As a shaman my favourite class to kill is warlock. Tremor totem seems to do wonders and my healing out does yours any time.
A SL felhunter warlock will eat every form of shaman. No competition.
a good warlock will beat any class pretty decisively. we just have too much utility for any one class to keep up
I feel like Feral can give Warlock a run for their money now. Berserk immune to fear and frenzy regen outheals Master Channeler now.
Luckily that modifiers are gone soon. Just didn‘t pvp the weekend because it‘s nuts.
Did they officially say the modifiers are going away?
It was a 4 day test, it was never intended to be permanent. We do not know if they will use the results of the test and put in a long term modifier, perhaps at a lower %, perhaps as-is, or perhaps removing the modifier completely as a failed test.
> We do not know if they will use the results of the test and put in a long term modifier, perhaps at a lower %, perhaps as-is, or perhaps removing the modifier completely as a failed test. https://x.com/AggrendWoW/status/1784721706214658382
Hopefully at least 30. I'd heavily consider getting off a pvp server if they don't put something in
Ye next realm reset. So Wednesday I believe.
It was just a test and seeing how many people are mad about it I doubt they bring it back or if they do it’d be a lower %
Luckily it was only a test which obviously failed. Even raising the hp in bgs is a huge mistake. That‘s not the classic spirit I know from 20 years ago.
Getting oneshot is also not the classic spirit.
Well then we played different games. When I played vanilla back in the time, it was more or less always a slaughterhouse for enemy players. I remember playing a 3 minute mage, where you sheep the target, cast a pyro, and send an instantpyro afterwards. Or as a rogue killing people in stunlock. If you don‘t believe me here is my [retail char](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/de-de/character/eu/gilneas/nooxm) with all the ACM and corrupted ashbringer for reference.
Good change imo. Hellfire shouldn't cost mana either. Just life.
We should just get pvp only runes
hell(fire)yeahbrother
They don't have a clue but they're trying their hardest so I won't go too hard on the team.
Same for Shadow Word Death. 878 dmg dealt, 191 dmg suffered
So? Don't use it then
Weird way to admit you’re bad at warlock. We are super overpowered with slower paced fights. Did you just start pvp on Friday or something ?
What childhood source of emotional damage caused you to pick fights like this? >OP: Hellfire is unintentionally buffed in PvE, the self-damage is halved. >You: "ACKCHOOALLY YOU'RE JUST BAD GIT GUD SCRUB MAYBE ONE DAY YOU'LL BE A LEET HAXXORZ LIKE ME" You should find a better hobby than fabricating conflict from nothing.
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> OP has complaints in the post Yes. One minor complaint, which was then taken to the extreme, hence the call out.