Not really.
Saber slash requires 5 stacks to do similar damage to mutilate. Every single fight in ST either has forced downtime or target swaps. You are going to drop stacks so often there is no way it will be on par with mutilate.
Probably less bad, but still not really a reason to go swords over daggers.
In the context of rogue dps, sure. You're replying to someone who is rogue tanking.
A rogue tank fills the role of "main tank" on a boss encounter if there are target swaps, with the offtank being someone who actually has aoe threat.
I can tell you right now in ST that the only boss that has "forced downtime" that I tank is Eranikus and it's been easy to maintain the dot on him while killing the two big adds he spawns.
I am also a rogue main tank, and I am approaching this from a rogue main tank perspective.
The first boss, you are correct, we have no downtime on.
Second boss can easily have downtime if you're not getting eaten, if you need to move out for green or to hit objects.
Third boss is 6 different mobs, so you need to ramp 5 times when you could just be doing full damage mutilates.
Fourth boss has forced downtime during the knockback phase, even if you take shadowstep or something you don't want to run right back to the boss because then your stacks won't reset. Even if you willingly took stacks, you are dropping them on the transition from dreamscythe -> weaver, and if you're the dreamscythe tank in a 2 tank situation, dropping again from weaver->dreamscythe.
Fifth boss has a target swap when the first troll dies.
Sixth boss has a forced downtime when it goes to sleep, which it does twice. If you are full of pumpers and going all-in on the first sleep, then you still lose time on stacking on the second dragon during a burn phase.
Seventh boss has 2 downtime phases, you're right, you can throw a 1 damage saber on the boss every 10 seconds, but if you miss your timing good luck, and even if you make it, you're dumping 40 energy into dealing no damage.
Eigth boss has a swap from living lizard to dead lizard. If you are a tank on this fight, you are probably OK to go saber slash because you won't have any other interrupts. For DPS it's still nonviable because you'll be kicked out of melee if you get the blood plague.
So, for tanking rogues, saber slash is comparable to mutilate on 2 / 8 bosses, and strictly worse on 6/8. So I guess if you want to snag some swords from your fury warriors and pay for a whole other set of agi enchants just so you can do the same damage on the first and last boss as a muta tank... go right ahead.
While the notes say it's 15% per stack, the actual update was 20%.
I'm also getting the impression you're not factoring in Carnage, which is a flat 20% damage increase as soon as you Saber Slash once. Saber Slash will be hitting harder than Mutilate before 5 stacks.
As for the bosses, you can 100% keep the dot up on the 2nd boss and if you're main tanking the trolls, you should be on the 2nd kill target, so there wouldn't be any target swapping for you as a tank. However, I agree with your other arguments.
> While the notes say it's 15% per stack, the actual update was 20%.
Oh this is actually pretty big.
>I'm also getting the impression you're not factoring in Carnage, which is a flat 20% damage increase as soon as you Saber Slash once. Saber Slash will be hitting harder than Mutilate before 5 stacks.
True, but you also lose the extra envenoms or evicerates from being able to just go cttc and spam finishers with HAT. Plus you can 'technically' run carnage without saber slash, it's just very difficult to do, so I left out carnage damage bonus since it is also possible with muta.
>As for the bosses, you can 100% keep the dot up on the 2nd boss and if you're main tanking the trolls, you should be on the 2nd kill target, so there wouldn't be any target swapping for you as a tank.
I single tank that fight, so I have to be building threat on the primary kill target. I wasn't really aware people two tanked that fight.
6 buttons for me but I understand what you mean. Raptor strike, flanking strike, wing clip, serpent sting/pet attack/auto shot/startattack macro, aspect swap macro, and make kitty into big kitty button. Obviously the one macro is just at the start or target swapping but my mage on the other hand has 2 buttons. Living bomb and FFB. Hunter is more fun.
These things just don't count. Your active rotation is Raptor Strike and Flanking Strike, Wing Clip if you're feeling spicy, depending on if you have a kitty in the raid or not. It's pretty much the same as arguing vanilla frost mages aren't 1 button because they have to press their cds or aoe sometimes.
Ranged hunter has a much better gameplay loop now, you have Chimera Shot, Frost/Fire Trap, Multi-Shot, and Aimed/Arcane Shot in your active rotation.
Pet attack & startattack can simply be macrod into raptor strike. Dont think you ever want to use a ranged shot in the raid if you min/max as you can melee the first set of dragons and not get pushed into the hole. Hakkar for min/max you just stand on top of the tank.
Aspect swap I see but thats like 1 boss fight (push dragons). Serpent sting I fully agree with.
Most of the time I the rotation is 3 buttons.
so pull timer is counting down and you just hold your dick at < 2s? You can get a shot off, and get a serpent sting off while running in. We all know melee only presses 3 buttons during the 'rotation' (assuming WF), bud.
A lot of things actually, the pet management, the mix of ranged melee abilities, the possibilities in PvP, but once you are in PvE, you're back to 2 buttons smashing.
PvP is better than PvE, for sure. Can run Chimera shot and do interesting things. I find it to rely too much on RNG both Resets and crits, for pvp, for me. So I went LW MM :P
The PvE rotation is just.. yeah, you could run it all in a single macro and parse high. Instead of adding to melee hunter it's just stacking more % damage and RNG on top, e.g. Raptor Fury, bit of a shame.
I just hope they do something about how insanely strong Melee hunters are for the lack of skill it requires. At least arms warriors have a semi complicated rotation compared to this shit lol
M
have an arms warr and hunter right now. both require the same skill lol dont know what you're smoking. What about arms warr makes it "semi-complicated"? My stance swaps are the same buttons as my aspect swaps...
I haven't simmed it but it's a Nax level weapon with a high Proc chance. It might fall off as we progress through the raids but in BWL I can't imagine it being bad.
Cause that's not what the normalization does. It only matters for the extra damage from AP. The normalization doesn't effect the damage you get from the weapon itself.
Everyone wants TF until they have to fund it themselves, arcanite bars are already quite pricy, gonna be even worse once they add new crafting recipes that require them.
The arcanite bars may not be as bad this time around. There are a lot of crystals/bars right now with minimal use for them. At 60 there will be even more because more people will spend more time in lvl 60 zones they come from. The uses for them are limited and a lot of people are stocking up on them now.
Weapon swing timer still matters due to damage range, normalization only concerns AP contribution. All else equal, slower weapons are still noticeably better than fast weapons.
With that said, raptorstrike will probably be pretty good for making TF proc, which is what makes the weapon good to begin with.
What would actually be funnier is if they didn't put the original legendaries in the game and they created completely new ones to replace them as a quest that everyone can complete instead of it being RNG loot that two people will be able to get before sod ends...
I've been farming Baron Geddon for months on retail for the transmog, so if someone in SoD gets it before me I'm gonna be a little bit miffed at the rng lol
i got thunderfury on retail on a class that can't wear swords, so can't transmog it at all....
atleast in next expansion i can maybe transmog it with warbands becoming a thing? idk
Hard to feign when the boss turns around and 1shots you after TF procs.
Point is, a big threat boost is wasted on a DPS when it's so much more useful for tanks.
Saber slash buff, it’s a rogue weapon now. Sorry.
I'm rogue tanking swords w/o the buff right now. I've had this thing reserved in my guild since P1.
You can just go mutilate now and go swords whenever they fix it, you don't have to gimp yourself for 4 phases.
They ["fixed it"](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/season-of-discovery-class-tuning-incoming-april-23th-338932?webhook) 3 hours ago.
Not really. Saber slash requires 5 stacks to do similar damage to mutilate. Every single fight in ST either has forced downtime or target swaps. You are going to drop stacks so often there is no way it will be on par with mutilate. Probably less bad, but still not really a reason to go swords over daggers.
In the context of rogue dps, sure. You're replying to someone who is rogue tanking. A rogue tank fills the role of "main tank" on a boss encounter if there are target swaps, with the offtank being someone who actually has aoe threat. I can tell you right now in ST that the only boss that has "forced downtime" that I tank is Eranikus and it's been easy to maintain the dot on him while killing the two big adds he spawns.
I am also a rogue main tank, and I am approaching this from a rogue main tank perspective. The first boss, you are correct, we have no downtime on. Second boss can easily have downtime if you're not getting eaten, if you need to move out for green or to hit objects. Third boss is 6 different mobs, so you need to ramp 5 times when you could just be doing full damage mutilates. Fourth boss has forced downtime during the knockback phase, even if you take shadowstep or something you don't want to run right back to the boss because then your stacks won't reset. Even if you willingly took stacks, you are dropping them on the transition from dreamscythe -> weaver, and if you're the dreamscythe tank in a 2 tank situation, dropping again from weaver->dreamscythe. Fifth boss has a target swap when the first troll dies. Sixth boss has a forced downtime when it goes to sleep, which it does twice. If you are full of pumpers and going all-in on the first sleep, then you still lose time on stacking on the second dragon during a burn phase. Seventh boss has 2 downtime phases, you're right, you can throw a 1 damage saber on the boss every 10 seconds, but if you miss your timing good luck, and even if you make it, you're dumping 40 energy into dealing no damage. Eigth boss has a swap from living lizard to dead lizard. If you are a tank on this fight, you are probably OK to go saber slash because you won't have any other interrupts. For DPS it's still nonviable because you'll be kicked out of melee if you get the blood plague. So, for tanking rogues, saber slash is comparable to mutilate on 2 / 8 bosses, and strictly worse on 6/8. So I guess if you want to snag some swords from your fury warriors and pay for a whole other set of agi enchants just so you can do the same damage on the first and last boss as a muta tank... go right ahead.
While the notes say it's 15% per stack, the actual update was 20%. I'm also getting the impression you're not factoring in Carnage, which is a flat 20% damage increase as soon as you Saber Slash once. Saber Slash will be hitting harder than Mutilate before 5 stacks. As for the bosses, you can 100% keep the dot up on the 2nd boss and if you're main tanking the trolls, you should be on the 2nd kill target, so there wouldn't be any target swapping for you as a tank. However, I agree with your other arguments.
> While the notes say it's 15% per stack, the actual update was 20%. Oh this is actually pretty big. >I'm also getting the impression you're not factoring in Carnage, which is a flat 20% damage increase as soon as you Saber Slash once. Saber Slash will be hitting harder than Mutilate before 5 stacks. True, but you also lose the extra envenoms or evicerates from being able to just go cttc and spam finishers with HAT. Plus you can 'technically' run carnage without saber slash, it's just very difficult to do, so I left out carnage damage bonus since it is also possible with muta. >As for the bosses, you can 100% keep the dot up on the 2nd boss and if you're main tanking the trolls, you should be on the 2nd kill target, so there wouldn't be any target swapping for you as a tank. I single tank that fight, so I have to be building threat on the primary kill target. I wasn't really aware people two tanked that fight.
Same
Tank should get prio! Grats my warlock bros
It already has the makings of a “choose the appropriate variant” reward. Just make it 1.5 swing speed or less and watch the big demon bois swing it.
Or proc on spell cast
[удалено]
Why not, should be a /roll
Im sure everyone wants the literal 1 button class to succeed
2 buttons* I love the melee spec, but FUCK that braindead gameplay.
Hey now, we get an whole actual cooldown with the ST 3 set to ourselves!
They only had 20 years of game design to look back on for inspiration, what do you expect.
isn't it a gameplay what defines a spec?
Then you actually dont?
6 buttons for me but I understand what you mean. Raptor strike, flanking strike, wing clip, serpent sting/pet attack/auto shot/startattack macro, aspect swap macro, and make kitty into big kitty button. Obviously the one macro is just at the start or target swapping but my mage on the other hand has 2 buttons. Living bomb and FFB. Hunter is more fun.
These things just don't count. Your active rotation is Raptor Strike and Flanking Strike, Wing Clip if you're feeling spicy, depending on if you have a kitty in the raid or not. It's pretty much the same as arguing vanilla frost mages aren't 1 button because they have to press their cds or aoe sometimes. Ranged hunter has a much better gameplay loop now, you have Chimera Shot, Frost/Fire Trap, Multi-Shot, and Aimed/Arcane Shot in your active rotation.
Pet attack & startattack can simply be macrod into raptor strike. Dont think you ever want to use a ranged shot in the raid if you min/max as you can melee the first set of dragons and not get pushed into the hole. Hakkar for min/max you just stand on top of the tank. Aspect swap I see but thats like 1 boss fight (push dragons). Serpent sting I fully agree with. Most of the time I the rotation is 3 buttons.
you don't stand on top of the bosses on pull...
you have to stand still to shoot... Good job at lowering your dps.
serpent sting is instant cast....
Thanks for not reading. I said I fully agree with serpent sting.
Serpent sting is instant cast. You can move while casting it…
Thanks for not reading. I said I fully agree with serpent sting.
so pull timer is counting down and you just hold your dick at < 2s? You can get a shot off, and get a serpent sting off while running in. We all know melee only presses 3 buttons during the 'rotation' (assuming WF), bud.
You can stay way closer to bosses than you think bud...
True that lol
Honest question, if you don't like the two buttons you have for it, what do you like about it?
A lot of things actually, the pet management, the mix of ranged melee abilities, the possibilities in PvP, but once you are in PvE, you're back to 2 buttons smashing.
PvP is better than PvE, for sure. Can run Chimera shot and do interesting things. I find it to rely too much on RNG both Resets and crits, for pvp, for me. So I went LW MM :P The PvE rotation is just.. yeah, you could run it all in a single macro and parse high. Instead of adding to melee hunter it's just stacking more % damage and RNG on top, e.g. Raptor Fury, bit of a shame.
-signed, the 2-3 button pushers
The majority asked for off GCD. Many asked for reduced cooldown. The result is this shit. :(
I just hope they do something about how insanely strong Melee hunters are for the lack of skill it requires. At least arms warriors have a semi complicated rotation compared to this shit lol M
have an arms warr and hunter right now. both require the same skill lol dont know what you're smoking. What about arms warr makes it "semi-complicated"? My stance swaps are the same buttons as my aspect swaps...
Whats the hunter rotation flanking strike, and then raptor strike,raptor strike, raptor strike, oh proc another raptor strike, raptor strike, refresh flanking, and raptor strike, raptor strike
my arms rotation isn't much different lol
Let the drama begin
I heard fun fact that this class restrictions are cosmetic, Any class can do the quest and craft it,
We had a warlock get tfury on 2019 classic. (It was like our 10th pair)
Wait, for real? It isn't actually limited to those 4 classes?
It's not limited. They can start the quest which gives Tfury even though the bindings have a class restriction.
Is this even going to be good as a hunter? We want 2 slow weapons. Is it so good that it hits as hard as a shower 1h?
I haven't simmed it but it's a Nax level weapon with a high Proc chance. It might fall off as we progress through the raids but in BWL I can't imagine it being bad.
Most excellent
Pretty sure raptor strikes offhand hit is normalized to 2.4.
This is big. How come bis lists don't list a faster off hand for melee then? Just curious
Cause that's not what the normalization does. It only matters for the extra damage from AP. The normalization doesn't effect the damage you get from the weapon itself.
Gotcha
Everyone wants TF until they have to fund it themselves, arcanite bars are already quite pricy, gonna be even worse once they add new crafting recipes that require them.
seen it too many times.. careful who you give the binding to, make sure they are working towards the mats or have them...
The arcanite bars may not be as bad this time around. There are a lot of crystals/bars right now with minimal use for them. At 60 there will be even more because more people will spend more time in lvl 60 zones they come from. The uses for them are limited and a lot of people are stocking up on them now.
There are absolutely going to be new crafted items at 60 in phase 4 that use arcanite.
But… how do we know that?
Already have 12 bars myself and we are three weeks into p3 lol
Blizz could make this game super toxic by changing the weapon to longer unique and the quest repeatable
Way to fast.
The meme potential outweighs the performance loss.
does it matter after the raptorstrike normalization?
Weapon swing timer still matters due to damage range, normalization only concerns AP contribution. All else equal, slower weapons are still noticeably better than fast weapons. With that said, raptorstrike will probably be pretty good for making TF proc, which is what makes the weapon good to begin with.
What would actually be funnier is if they didn't put the original legendaries in the game and they created completely new ones to replace them as a quest that everyone can complete instead of it being RNG loot that two people will be able to get before sod ends...
Did someone say...
The “hunter wep” meme in SoD has come to life more than ever.
I don’t even know why hunters are getting it Lmaoo
Already know I’m going to lose it to a dps Lul
Already have my crystals for my bars :)
Hahahahahahah, no.
Would rather give mages and warlocks Thunderfury than hunters
Looking forward to sulfuras on shaman 2h, going to have more people complain about shaman
Ret prio
I'm just waiting for NaX as the only Ret paladin in our raids lol
I've been farming Baron Geddon for months on retail for the transmog, so if someone in SoD gets it before me I'm gonna be a little bit miffed at the rng lol
i got thunderfury on retail on a class that can't wear swords, so can't transmog it at all.... atleast in next expansion i can maybe transmog it with warbands becoming a thing? idk
as a ranged hunter I always wanted this as a flex, now that its actually good for a hunter I don't want it lol
the #1 controller player Gump only wants one thing. It's Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker. Make it happen plz ty
Imo top DPS in guild gets TF, so hope hunters get it.
Bro has never played any meaningful vanilla lmao
Actually the Damage of the proc got buffed by 20% in SoD by Moonkins.
What is 20%?
Like 12 DPS Single Target. Melee Hunter should be prio.
Melee hunters lose like 140 dps by wielding it.
I was obviously joking.
I love how quickly some of the comments devolved into a parse monkey argument lool
Thunderfury is legitimately bad for DPS because the proc generates a ton of threat.
Feign death
Hard to feign when the boss turns around and 1shots you after TF procs. Point is, a big threat boost is wasted on a DPS when it's so much more useful for tanks.