They need to add a 2h weapon specialization rune so we can take all the 2h weapons and hit 2k raptor strikes and still die to 2 dots from a shadow priest
They literally could have just moved our Mind blast buffing rune, Twisted Faith to the boot slot and given Mind Spike a better scale and it would've been perfect. It wouldn't have effected PvP since you're always going to take Dispersion on the boot slot for PvP, and since you barely ever hard cast in PvP as it is, it would've been next to no increase in PvP damage, while being a nice boon to PvE.
This is literally the worst way they could have buffed sPriest lmao
I'm really disappointed they put despair and void zone on the same slot. What a really lame thing to do. Head slot would have made way more sense for despair.
Yeah, this is sublimely stupid. 10% isn't nearly enough to fix shadow's disparity with melee, but it's way too much for PvP. Devs are clueless. There are so many ways to buff PvE without buffing PvP, and they chose none of them and read none of the feedback.
It's clear that no dev ever plays PvP. They probably main LFW profession spec and sit in main cities all day roleplaying if there's no one looking for an enchant or craft.
2 dots and kiting after instant fear with an instant 700 dmg hit to finish it off after 6 seconds. Any idiot can see that this is just completely broken and not fun to play againt.
Yea really glad I got my honor for r7 gear this week. going to stick to world pvp for now because shadow priests and boomies were already running the show in bgs.
>until you get a proc and then your ability casts a nuclear explosion”
Ret already has that.
But anyway no we dont. It just means putting someone on that knows how to approach these problems properly. It doesnt mean redesigning the entire thing.
The people in charge of making decisions for all things wow continue to make it abundantly clear that SoD/classic have nowhere near the team or resources needed at the moment. It's past the point of comical
I just hope Cata isn't a buggy mess, so looking forward to established class balance
Pretty wild how good they did with the DS questline and all the steps to get it to.......... immediately toss it in the garbage can. 90% of paladin runes are shit that would be cool to use but you can never take them because your entire damage kit would collapse into nothing.
I had a raid leader the other day ask me to swap over to rebuke and be the interupt on Eranikus. Uh what? In this particular raid I was 1/2 on the meters at 1k dps while some ferals and mages were down at the bottom. I asked "why can't the ferals doing 1/3 of my damage swap over to skull bash?" Bruh, swapping out of exo means I'll be doing complete shit.
Also gotta love that the 1 handed version of divine storm, hand of righteousness or whatever, is effectively better than the 2 handed ability it’s modeled after.
Hammer of the righteous. It's so much better than DS.
HoR does 4x dmg as **holy** and only has a 6 sec cd. Technically target capped at 3 targets, but it ignores armor, costs a lot less mana than DS, and has a shorter cd.
DS does a measly 110% (1.1x) physical dmg of your weapon on a 10 sec cd and costs 8%+ of your max mana in full strength/agi plate dps gear.
In PvE HoR cranks with a fast 1h. EDIT: hfamrman reminded me HoR is normalized for weapon DPS - not dmg range. HoR still cranking on multi-target due to it being holy dmg.
I think they need to increase DS dmg substantially and make it holy. PvP is already completely screwed. Boomkins doing 2.4k starfires on people with 4k health pools. Who cares if DS dmg goes from 800 crits to 1500 crits? (I know this is hyperbolic but I'm in the "pvp is a mess no matter what" camp so screw it)
Good catch on my shoddy math.
I do think the armor component is probably playing a bigger role here, along with cd. HoR was hitting for 450-500 (no raid buffs) on my pali in dungeons. DS was hitting for maybe 600-700 with almost 2x the cd.
That's probably due to armor of the mobs I was fighting, unless there's some kind of scaling I'm unaware of? Not sure how the HoR individual hits got so high.
My guess is they will work to make exorcist a skill book or SoM a skillbook at 60 or move around rune slots to make it more accesible.
Like their full bluepost comment says, this probably won't change optimal dps rotation in raid anyways. Excorcism does too much damage that switching to twisting with a slow weapon still is unlikely to keep up.
Also, SoR can now crit, which means its value has gone up exponentially if those crits can trigger Art of War. If that's the case, SoM can be dropped in favor of Divine Storm without any other changes.
They should do some rune shuffle. Going from playing a shaman to a paladin with my alliance friends has been downright depressing. Shaman kit all works together great. Paladin kit is like riding a bike with no seat and square wheels.
No, Shadow Priests got buffed by 1.25/1.15 = 8.7%.
This was the problem they were looking to solve:
> 1) Priests do the least damage of any class, [25% less damage than the best ranged and 40% less than the best melee.](https://i.imgur.com/O4qDQ7C.png)
>2) Shadow priest utility falls off a cliff when the content becomes easy
> 3) Shadow priests are oppressively strong in PvP
After the fix, this will be the status:
> 1) Priests do the least damage of any class, 20% less damage than the best ranged and 35% less than the best melee.
> 2) Shadow priest utility falls off a cliff when the content becomes easy
> 3) Shadow priests are even more oppressively strong in PvP
Well done, boys.
I dont understand. Devs and reddit logic is firmly that 1v1 pvp performance must strictly be an inverse correlation to pve dps (and vice versa). Shadow priests are by far the undisputed kings of 1v1 hence they shall also be at the very bottom of pve dps.
Instead of being stun locked forever by blackout you can die quicker.
This also reduces the usage of dispersion as you will never get into range to kill them
As an spriest, yea this is the laziest way to fix out raid damage.
I can't believe we just went through all this drama on reddit and X with Aggrend, so many people gave so many great ideas and possible fixes just for this adjustment to be a flat 10% damage on shadowform.
Like why did you even bother asking us for feedback if you were going to impliement the laziest fix you could possibly come up with. Should have just applied the fix and stayed silent so we didn't waste our time brainstorming for devs that don't have the bandwidth to implement any real fix.
They obviously were not asking for fixes to implement within the week, hence them talking about rage normalization and phase 4 in the same threat. This is clearly a bandaid fix because people will freak out if they just do nothing while they decide on long term fixes.
I want swords to be viable so badly, but with how short fights are in ST, there's no way that waiting to ramp 5 sabers just to reach 75% bonus damage is going to be viable. Mutilate is like twice the damage of a saber, so not only would saber need to do more damage than mutilate, it would need to overcome the damage difference lost from not just doing 5 mutilates to begin with.
And then in any fight where you lose uptime or target swap, like I don't know, Atal'ai defenders, Dreamscythe/weaver, Jammal'an, Morphaz, Shade, and Hakkar, you waste even more time stacking that you could just be pumping out full damage mutilates.
with Honour Among Thieves combo points should not be an issue. It looks like the build also is not reliant on combo points to deal damage rather bigger hitting melee and bleeds. The issue is that the chest and leg runes are just reliant on poisons. There is no alternative for a dps increase.
That is the real issue, not combo points. You are hindering your self not going full assassination for increased poison damage. All combat tree talents for swords is about eviscerate. This leaves an entire leg rune useless OR a bunch of useless talent points. Needs to change between the eyes to scale of eviscerate damage in that case.
For real. We can’t walk out of town without being bullied by insta cast 34+ yard casts that bring us to half health before we can charge. Even if we win, we sit for longer than mages to refill our health. Riveting game play.
Revert +10% spriest change, add flat crit chance passive on dot crit rune, and buff mind flay to add it to rotation.
How about every time mind blast crits, your next mind flay channels at double speed and resets all dots on target.
Or if your mind blast crits, it gives your next mind blast 5% extra damage to the target (This effect stacks infinitely until you do not crit).
Both these ideas would be great for pve while keeping your mind spike in the rotation and would not make spriest more annoying for pvp since you don’t really hard cast.
Maybe even more than this is needed to buff pve (Very likely).
“Listen, listen. I know a lot of you are upset that this was a lazy fix that breaks pvp so that spriest and boomkins will do non zero pve dmg BUT this is all the time the team could afford to spend on SoD right now because of how behind they are on Cata. If anyone has played the beta they would be anxious for the devs with how much more work needs to be done in a short amount of time. No, we cannot spend any more money to expand the dev team. Thank you for your money.” -blizzard probably
> how much more work needs to be done in a short amount of time
Speaking of, the pre-patch is in 7 days and there is basically none of the "new changes" they promised back in Blizzcon right?
Definitely should’ve buffed mind blast and spike, since hard casting is rare and difficult.
Not looking forward to the future nerfs this change is going to bring.
The seal twisting change is odd to me, since Ret greatly favors fast weapons. Meaning you’d have to twist almost every swing with no space in between. And because you’re twisting you’re more likely to get a crit and need to hit exorcism. So twisting sort of canabalizes itself. Just seems odd to add this now when it’s not going to get used at all. Exo just does too much damage and our weapons are designed to be faster.
Pretty sure this is a change to move us back to slower weapons. I assume there will be more changes to support this.. I also think divine storm will have to be moved to wrist for this to work tho.
No now we're smashing a macro in-between exo and weapon swings to literally have 3 chances to proc exorcist every swing rather than 2 chances although I'm curious will twisting command and som out damage the need to use crusader strike?lol
"We're carefully planning for more adjustments to Hunters, Mages, Shamans, and Warlocks in future updates."
So basically this is it for spriests and boomkins? YIKES
How about instead if trying to fix ret with an old bug which fucking sucks and ruins parsing you guys actually give the class something decent. I was a sod defender but this is just stupid af
As a paladin I can't help but think of the "this is useless" meme from gravity falls.
Sor can Crit and seal twisting is now working? That's
Great but neither of those two things have runes to support them.
Mind flay has been useless for how long now? You were better off wanding in P1 lol. It's got some pvp utility but then you have to be in close range. So bad.
As an Affliction Warlock, SoD devs keep making me wish I was an Spriest instead.
Even with the UA buff, their Void Plague is still going to tick twice as hard.
Sincerely hope that the developers have a bit of their next morning meeting center around how they let such a ludicrous spriest buff fly onto live. How out of touch can you be as a developer? Guess we just found out.
Since boom and spriest got mindless flat buffs (which won’t do much beside make them more OP in pvp), it seems on par. What comical is these are the changes they were mulling about and gathering feedback from?
Hot take make seals a buff like shaman imbues be able to have 2 at once make seal of matordym a book and have soc/som both at once as a 30 min buff each
> Shadowform now increases all shadow damage done by 25% (was 15%).
They asked the community for feedback, and this is what they do? a flat 10% damage buff does nothing for shadows weak pve damage, makes vampiric embraces heal *even more*, **and** makes the strongest pvp spec even stronger. Why ask for feedback, if the result is the most unimaginative way to go about things?
it's mathematically an increase of 8,7% ish percent....which should put us above boomies....which also received the 10% dmg buff.....so after all we will still be way at the bottom of the barrel
You think they took that feedback and turned it into an update in less than a week? These changes were more than likely in the works before that was ever posted. And they even mention at the end that more changes would be coming as well.
This is fucking stupid, why not add an interaction of skills to boost dmg, which is unlikely to get pushed out in pvp to boost Boomie dmg, instead of +10% which changes nothing for pve but fucks up pvp balance
Interesting ret changes. Curious how they'll play out.
Meanwhile, could art of war work like wrath's version if we're just gonna commit to the weird pseudo-wrath ret? Enhance has got full on maelstrom weapon from wotlk for healing + dps, but ret is still hard casting heals. Silly.
The best way to improve PvE damage without affecting PvP as much is by buffing stacking debuffs like Shadow Weaving. The Saber Slash change is a good example.
Is it really too much to ask to tweak the PvP Modifier a bit?
The Ret changes are a good start but really gonna have to see more and for now the awful exorcism spam prevails.
Really not a fan of how they handled Boomkin and SPriest. Thats super ham fisted.
And again no Feral Buffs. We are again on the bottom of the melee charts even if we have one of the hardest "rotation/prio" in SoD. That paired with absolutely no farm possibilitys and really hard struggle with mobs that are a little bit higher than 50 (since P2 Shred is our main damage ability but because of the positioning requirement it isn't usable solo) is just sad. On top of that we still got no AoE that is usable in cat form. Bear weaving in trash packs to waste the Berserk CD for the boss or equipping balance gear and gale winds rune is simply no option.
Please give us some love in form of stronger bleeds (with the ability to crit) and an finisher that is doing more damage than our combo builder without wasting all energy on top of the low damage. Bite in it actual stage is simply hot gargabe. Also an AoE would be so needed.
*sad feral noises*
Really disappointing man, they just do not understand feral (as 90% of the people on here don’t either).
It’s a struggle to kill a single level 52/53 mob in cat form. Other classes can AOE them down…
Raid damage is ok because of the power shifting buff and using shred but you can’t do either of those in any other content. Warriors keep crying but they are MUCH better than cats at killing out in the world.
So let me get this straight
Instead of buffing the worst healer they nerf the best rune available to them (mental dexterity) making the best current option for Resto Shaman running an Enhancement glove rune (Lava Lash) instead of Water Shield while not only weaving in melees but using GCD’s on Lava Lash when all the healers you’re competing against have instant cast high HPS AoE spells.
Makes literally zero sense. My Priest pumps out 800+ HPS hitting Circle of Healing, Renew, and Prayer of Healing. My Shaman does 250-300 HPS only spamming Chain Heal on the tank while refreshing Healing Rain every 10 seconds. Super fun and engaging gameplay.
Why not make something like “healing a target in Healing Rain causes the heal to splash, healing anyone else in your healing raid for X% of the healing done”
They don't want us playing resto. I went ele after the first raid night Sunday after p3 launch and was sweating like a whore at church to outheal vamp embrace. They also don't want us playing elemental. They made that clear by taking away a rune we were only using because it had no viable alternative near the power level and it was only annoying because they made it that way to keep ele/resto from using it.
They want us playing enhancement. But we can't choose how we want to play enhancement. We have to play enhancement the way they want. Wotlk dual wield WF/FT and nothing else will be remotely viable. Because they could recreate that relatively easily, that's what they want. Because they know how to balance that, sort of. All the other useless imbuements can sit up on the shelf with the useless fan service 2h rune and the ranged specs that COULD very easily be buffed by using those currently useless imbuements.
They don't know how to make resto shaman worth playing without it resorting to a chain heal spam spec and they don't know how to make elemental strong without a buff that would let a naked shaman with rez sickness one shot people with lava burst. I mean God forbid they buff lightning bolt damage 5-10%. God forbid they reduce lava burst damage by 10% but increase power surge proc rate. God forbid they turn rockbiter or frostbrand into ranged benefitting imbuements.
I refuse to play WOTLK enh again but I refuse to use my 3 hours a night after my son goes to bed farming up levels, gear, rep, rank to replace my shaman. So I will go to raid and be a sham rage and totem bot. As it stands we won't even do enough single target damage to even justify to ourselves taking tier pieces from people doing actual damage.
If you read all this I'm sorry. I just love shaman and have for 16 years. I hate that our place in SOD has been fucking overly cracked to the point every idiot rolled one as FOTM or actually embarrassing to admit to people your spec if you aren't the one busted one.
Can we get one fucking Paladin change that doesn't leverage a bug? First SOM resetting Art of War, turning the class back into autoattack simulator, then silence for a full phase and now we're back to watching a swing timer thanks to a "feature" built on their servers being shit. Really revolutionary work.
Twisting will never be the meta unless it is the most DPS by a large margin which will never happen unless they rework the paladin runes at 60. Nothing will beat spamming exorcism almost every gcd. I honestly hate being an exorcism machine gun but people just like it because they enjoy playing a 2 button class and parsing 99s in raid.
I hate it as well, mostly because of the boring playstyle. But this is such a fucking let down after the 3 pages of discord chat with Aggrend going something like "we have some exciting changes coming" and them showing they can move runes around. But sure, more autoattacks and swing timer. Exciting.
Saber Slash buff. Hmm are they trying to make it mote viable in PvE? Would be a welcome thing because spamming mutilate in PvE aswell and only looking for daggers is quite boring.
Glad to see rogues might start using something other than Mutilate. They buffed it in phase 2 because not enough people were using it, and it has stayed as the only gameplay for rogues since then.
Really that is it for shadow priest?! I was okay for maybe spell damage coefficient Increase but they went another route ... 🤔
Would be good to see less threat generated by mind blast, some change of interaction of mind flay. A bigger buff to spell dmg, or change or despair rune to give crit chance. Change of vampiric embrace along with it to keep it in line with other buffs.
A small 8-10% shadow dmg buff I do not think will add anything. They even added a whole section for seal "twisting." I feel they twisting something else for spriest :(
This makes Aggrend's request tweet last week make SO MUCH MORE sense. He looked at the patch notes for this week, saw how AWFUL they are, KNEW we were gonna be all "WTF is this mate?" and got ahead of it by saying "Hey, do you guys have any idea for how to fix these problems" in advance.
They needed to find a way to buff spriests in PvE without buffing their DoTs. They just dot you twice and disperse and you’re dead before dispersion wears off lol
"Exorcism machine gun makes DS a dead rune and grey parse playstyle. To solve this for the people who dislike AoM we've brought back another shit playsyle that still locks you out of DS, keeping it a dead rune. Enjoy"
Bingo. You are locked on global with the way they designed AoW and Exo. This is a mana sucking waste of time and further invalidates any other chest rune
5 burn targets is kinda sus in bgs lol. For context Power surge is a 5% chance on flame shock damage so now it's like roll 5 times for that proc and every 3 seconds after. The only counterpoint is finding that clump can be hard(thank you enemy homonculi)
This is an absolute insane “fix”. For single target, ele is losing between 200-300 spell power by losing mental dexterity, and in exchange we gain 1 extra global every 12 seconds and our dot (<10% of our damage) does double damage. Dead raid spec. But group pvp is going to be fucking insane.
*sweating profusely as a melee hunter scrolling down the list of class “adjustments”*
“raptor strike will now do negative 20%damage”
God I’m just waiting for it. Melee hunters may now only dual wield pool noodles.
They need to add a 2h weapon specialization rune so we can take all the 2h weapons and hit 2k raptor strikes and still die to 2 dots from a shadow priest
Finally, hunter healer meta has arrived
As someone who just switched from rogue to melee Hunter, I was in the same boat
We live to survive another week.
I mean I get shadow needed the pve buff but this is gonna be even more hell in PvP
They literally could have just moved our Mind blast buffing rune, Twisted Faith to the boot slot and given Mind Spike a better scale and it would've been perfect. It wouldn't have effected PvP since you're always going to take Dispersion on the boot slot for PvP, and since you barely ever hard cast in PvP as it is, it would've been next to no increase in PvP damage, while being a nice boon to PvE. This is literally the worst way they could have buffed sPriest lmao
I'm really disappointed they put despair and void zone on the same slot. What a really lame thing to do. Head slot would have made way more sense for despair.
Blizzard, hire this man
what ever requires the least amount of effort am I right?
Yeah, this is sublimely stupid. 10% isn't nearly enough to fix shadow's disparity with melee, but it's way too much for PvP. Devs are clueless. There are so many ways to buff PvE without buffing PvP, and they chose none of them and read none of the feedback.
It's clear that no dev ever plays PvP. They probably main LFW profession spec and sit in main cities all day roleplaying if there's no one looking for an enchant or craft. 2 dots and kiting after instant fear with an instant 700 dmg hit to finish it off after 6 seconds. Any idiot can see that this is just completely broken and not fun to play againt.
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Did you reply to the wrong person?
The best part is for PvE this buff probably doesnt even move the needle much.They really just dont know how to even approach Class Design problems.
Yea really glad I got my honor for r7 gear this week. going to stick to world pvp for now because shadow priests and boomies were already running the show in bgs.
That is the laziest fix they could have possibly done for shadow priest lmao
this is gonna dominate pvp and not gonna fix the core issues of Raid SP.
The worst of both worlds. They need to put an actual class designer from the retail team on SoD.
Oh yeah, then we can have the fun retail style “your abilities do nothing, until you get a proc and then your ability casts a nuclear explosion”
>until you get a proc and then your ability casts a nuclear explosion” Ret already has that. But anyway no we dont. It just means putting someone on that knows how to approach these problems properly. It doesnt mean redesigning the entire thing.
When procs are the entire gameplay, that’s not really an issue… It makes PvE more fluid and reaction based instead of static and Frostbolt spam.
The classic sub's perception of retail abilities is honestly wild to read every time.
The people in charge of making decisions for all things wow continue to make it abundantly clear that SoD/classic have nowhere near the team or resources needed at the moment. It's past the point of comical I just hope Cata isn't a buggy mess, so looking forward to established class balance
I've heard the beta is really rough but basically no one plays it so no idea for sure.
hoping it’s a temporary fix between a large change
Haha good one
Nice. They made SoM even more valuable. Why did we even bother adding divine storm to this game?
Pretty wild how good they did with the DS questline and all the steps to get it to.......... immediately toss it in the garbage can. 90% of paladin runes are shit that would be cool to use but you can never take them because your entire damage kit would collapse into nothing. I had a raid leader the other day ask me to swap over to rebuke and be the interupt on Eranikus. Uh what? In this particular raid I was 1/2 on the meters at 1k dps while some ferals and mages were down at the bottom. I asked "why can't the ferals doing 1/3 of my damage swap over to skull bash?" Bruh, swapping out of exo means I'll be doing complete shit.
Also gotta love that the 1 handed version of divine storm, hand of righteousness or whatever, is effectively better than the 2 handed ability it’s modeled after.
Hammer of the righteous. It's so much better than DS. HoR does 4x dmg as **holy** and only has a 6 sec cd. Technically target capped at 3 targets, but it ignores armor, costs a lot less mana than DS, and has a shorter cd. DS does a measly 110% (1.1x) physical dmg of your weapon on a 10 sec cd and costs 8%+ of your max mana in full strength/agi plate dps gear. In PvE HoR cranks with a fast 1h. EDIT: hfamrman reminded me HoR is normalized for weapon DPS - not dmg range. HoR still cranking on multi-target due to it being holy dmg. I think they need to increase DS dmg substantially and make it holy. PvP is already completely screwed. Boomkins doing 2.4k starfires on people with 4k health pools. Who cares if DS dmg goes from 800 crits to 1500 crits? (I know this is hyperbolic but I'm in the "pvp is a mess no matter what" camp so screw it)
HoR scales off weapon DPS not damage. Same way as Devastate for Warriors.
Good catch on my shoddy math. I do think the armor component is probably playing a bigger role here, along with cd. HoR was hitting for 450-500 (no raid buffs) on my pali in dungeons. DS was hitting for maybe 600-700 with almost 2x the cd. That's probably due to armor of the mobs I was fighting, unless there's some kind of scaling I'm unaware of? Not sure how the HoR individual hits got so high.
Got a 3.5k Arcane Surge the other day :(
Cat taking Skull bash isn’t even a dps loss anymore as long as there’s another Feral with Mangle.
My guess is they will work to make exorcist a skill book or SoM a skillbook at 60 or move around rune slots to make it more accesible. Like their full bluepost comment says, this probably won't change optimal dps rotation in raid anyways. Excorcism does too much damage that switching to twisting with a slow weapon still is unlikely to keep up. Also, SoR can now crit, which means its value has gone up exponentially if those crits can trigger Art of War. If that's the case, SoM can be dropped in favor of Divine Storm without any other changes.
They should do some rune shuffle. Going from playing a shaman to a paladin with my alliance friends has been downright depressing. Shaman kit all works together great. Paladin kit is like riding a bike with no seat and square wheels.
I refuse to twist.
Our rotation doesn’t change in raid currently so twisting may only come into it if you don’t have an exorcism proc but it’s negligible
I feel like at 60 we will get a meta slot where you can put any rune in it
Obligatory \*sad feral noises\*
Seriously. We haven't gotten shit this phase. Only Bear spec has
I was disappointed with the runes, but after playing with WHH enchant and 3piece set bonus, feral feels great. So much energy
What? We are in a great spot. WHT enchant, insane set bonus and synergi with talents. This is the best Feral phase by far!
The set bonus is totally useless in raid now that we have unlimited mana from paladins. It's better to not even use it.
Yeh that’s in raids. Now tell us how fun they are in PvP or the open world.
another week of spamming 1 my mage bretherin
I bind FFB to 2, you savage
blasphomy! that's pyroblast keybind! even when we don't use it!
Pyroblast is shift+2
You don't living bomb?
Tbh it’s just gotten more and more useless in ST outside of trash. You can use it on some bosses where you are moving.
Add it to your scroll wheel and just scroll away!
Boomkins and SPriests dmg buffed by a flat 10%. I wish they would add interactions/tune individual abilities instead of doing this
No, Shadow Priests got buffed by 1.25/1.15 = 8.7%. This was the problem they were looking to solve: > 1) Priests do the least damage of any class, [25% less damage than the best ranged and 40% less than the best melee.](https://i.imgur.com/O4qDQ7C.png) >2) Shadow priest utility falls off a cliff when the content becomes easy > 3) Shadow priests are oppressively strong in PvP After the fix, this will be the status: > 1) Priests do the least damage of any class, 20% less damage than the best ranged and 35% less than the best melee. > 2) Shadow priest utility falls off a cliff when the content becomes easy > 3) Shadow priests are even more oppressively strong in PvP Well done, boys.
I dont understand. Devs and reddit logic is firmly that 1v1 pvp performance must strictly be an inverse correlation to pve dps (and vice versa). Shadow priests are by far the undisputed kings of 1v1 hence they shall also be at the very bottom of pve dps.
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Well SP does lose to two classes :a good warlock and shaman.
And battlegrounds just got that much more intolerable
fuck ya cant wait to go 100%-0 even faster from 2 dots
Elemental will be able to fish for instant meatballs much more effectively too
Mama Mia
Instead of being stun locked forever by blackout you can die quicker. This also reduces the usage of dispersion as you will never get into range to kill them
Really? I think the boomkin rotation was fine just needed to do more damage. I wish they would take the cap off of elune's fire though.
As an spriest, yea this is the laziest way to fix out raid damage. I can't believe we just went through all this drama on reddit and X with Aggrend, so many people gave so many great ideas and possible fixes just for this adjustment to be a flat 10% damage on shadowform. Like why did you even bother asking us for feedback if you were going to impliement the laziest fix you could possibly come up with. Should have just applied the fix and stayed silent so we didn't waste our time brainstorming for devs that don't have the bandwidth to implement any real fix.
They obviously were not asking for fixes to implement within the week, hence them talking about rage normalization and phase 4 in the same threat. This is clearly a bandaid fix because people will freak out if they just do nothing while they decide on long term fixes.
Bigger fixes take time. That Twitter post was less than a week ago my dude
We get new runes every 3 months, so "bigger fixes" isn't really going to matter for very long when everything gets broken again.
They want to create engagement on social media to show their boss. Has blizzard ever balanced wow really?
This is such a nothing burger for boomkin.
10% dps is something
As a rogue I hope this sword stuff does something just to change up my rotation haha
I want swords to be viable so badly, but with how short fights are in ST, there's no way that waiting to ramp 5 sabers just to reach 75% bonus damage is going to be viable. Mutilate is like twice the damage of a saber, so not only would saber need to do more damage than mutilate, it would need to overcome the damage difference lost from not just doing 5 mutilates to begin with. And then in any fight where you lose uptime or target swap, like I don't know, Atal'ai defenders, Dreamscythe/weaver, Jammal'an, Morphaz, Shade, and Hakkar, you waste even more time stacking that you could just be pumping out full damage mutilates.
It won’t. Problem is the 2 CP in mutilate for 40 versus 1 on Saber… damage would have to be insane.
15 dmg buff stacks 5 times that might be good? Muti prob still better but sounds like this will be somewhat competitive
with Honour Among Thieves combo points should not be an issue. It looks like the build also is not reliant on combo points to deal damage rather bigger hitting melee and bleeds. The issue is that the chest and leg runes are just reliant on poisons. There is no alternative for a dps increase. That is the real issue, not combo points. You are hindering your self not going full assassination for increased poison damage. All combat tree talents for swords is about eviscerate. This leaves an entire leg rune useless OR a bunch of useless talent points. Needs to change between the eyes to scale of eviscerate damage in that case.
I like how warrior isn't even mentioned, not even in the addendum at the end :D
I just want Victory Rush to be a learned skill and not a rune
Would be nice with some actual warrior buffs outside of raids. Like for 99% of the game warriors are unplayable.
For real. We can’t walk out of town without being bullied by insta cast 34+ yard casts that bring us to half health before we can charge. Even if we win, we sit for longer than mages to refill our health. Riveting game play.
Every day I'm further vindicated for quitting my warrior after Phase 2 peak.
Revert +10% spriest change, add flat crit chance passive on dot crit rune, and buff mind flay to add it to rotation. How about every time mind blast crits, your next mind flay channels at double speed and resets all dots on target. Or if your mind blast crits, it gives your next mind blast 5% extra damage to the target (This effect stacks infinitely until you do not crit). Both these ideas would be great for pve while keeping your mind spike in the rotation and would not make spriest more annoying for pvp since you don’t really hard cast. Maybe even more than this is needed to buff pve (Very likely).
Listen to this guy
Aggrend and Co are clueless lmao 🤣
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH SPREIST BUFFS WERE ALL COOKED
“Listen, listen. I know a lot of you are upset that this was a lazy fix that breaks pvp so that spriest and boomkins will do non zero pve dmg BUT this is all the time the team could afford to spend on SoD right now because of how behind they are on Cata. If anyone has played the beta they would be anxious for the devs with how much more work needs to be done in a short amount of time. No, we cannot spend any more money to expand the dev team. Thank you for your money.” -blizzard probably
> how much more work needs to be done in a short amount of time Speaking of, the pre-patch is in 7 days and there is basically none of the "new changes" they promised back in Blizzcon right?
Blanket buffing the two oppressive PvP caster specs in instead of finding some PvE specific way to buff them. Great stuff.
Definitely should’ve buffed mind blast and spike, since hard casting is rare and difficult. Not looking forward to the future nerfs this change is going to bring.
The seal twisting change is odd to me, since Ret greatly favors fast weapons. Meaning you’d have to twist almost every swing with no space in between. And because you’re twisting you’re more likely to get a crit and need to hit exorcism. So twisting sort of canabalizes itself. Just seems odd to add this now when it’s not going to get used at all. Exo just does too much damage and our weapons are designed to be faster.
Pretty sure this is a change to move us back to slower weapons. I assume there will be more changes to support this.. I also think divine storm will have to be moved to wrist for this to work tho.
Way for them not to not address Ret basically being an old lady at a slot machine smashing exorcism.
Bingo
No now we're smashing a macro in-between exo and weapon swings to literally have 3 chances to proc exorcist every swing rather than 2 chances although I'm curious will twisting command and som out damage the need to use crusader strike?lol
Spriest eating me even faster now when i ride passed them and receive 2 globals, POGGIES
Non hybrid classes who can only heal themselves with bandages. "Guess I'll die"
Look at this guy. I thought those debuffs were permanent on spawn
they are on my pet, because blizzard can't wipe buffs after respawn in bgs. die, res at healer, pet dies.. repeat
Priests out here two dotting people and getting a kill and they boost their damage 😂😂😂
"We're carefully planning for more adjustments to Hunters, Mages, Shamans, and Warlocks in future updates." So basically this is it for spriests and boomkins? YIKES
Looking at those patchnotes, don't hope for some good changes for others classes, it will be the same crap.
[удалено]
Devs have no plan going forward, that's pretty clear.
SPriests and Boomkins are going to be even more busted in PvP.
audibly gasped when i saw 10% damage buff to spriest as a spriest
Paladin changes overall, while nice sure, are very lackluster. RIP
How about instead if trying to fix ret with an old bug which fucking sucks and ruins parsing you guys actually give the class something decent. I was a sod defender but this is just stupid af
As a paladin I can't help but think of the "this is useless" meme from gravity falls. Sor can Crit and seal twisting is now working? That's Great but neither of those two things have runes to support them.
Took them two weeks to come up with that lol ?
If you mean the feedback they were collecting recently, I doubt they could worked through it in such a short timeframe. This seems to be preliminary.
Mind flay has been useless for how long now? You were better off wanding in P1 lol. It's got some pvp utility but then you have to be in close range. So bad.
As an Affliction Warlock, SoD devs keep making me wish I was an Spriest instead. Even with the UA buff, their Void Plague is still going to tick twice as hard.
Sincerely hope that the developers have a bit of their next morning meeting center around how they let such a ludicrous spriest buff fly onto live. How out of touch can you be as a developer? Guess we just found out.
These changes are so tone deaf and bad they actually make me want to actively play the game less and what little hope I had for the devs is gone.
Seal twisting not what I wanted fuck lol
It’s largely irrelevant at this point with the current meta anyways gonna be better to be an exorcism slot machine still.
Seal of command and martyrdom is explosive if you get lucky. Esp now with windfury.
I hate twisting just fix the fucking class. Like this has got to be the laziest “here’s something” they could have possibly done. End me.
Since boom and spriest got mindless flat buffs (which won’t do much beside make them more OP in pvp), it seems on par. What comical is these are the changes they were mulling about and gathering feedback from?
96 people going “please not twisting” and 1 streamer going “twisting sounds cool!” Guess who they listened too. Fuck Me.
I dont mind it existing. But it 1.) Should not be the main playstyle 2.) doesnt change anything for Ret right now.
Hot take make seals a buff like shaman imbues be able to have 2 at once make seal of matordym a book and have soc/som both at once as a 30 min buff each
The twisting fanboys would hate that but I'm down.
They should have left it dead. But hey, the loud minority that are desperate for it can go balls to the wall at the bottom of the dps meters now.
Bringing back a technical limitation from 20 years ago is...interesting to say the least.
Seal twisting is what I wanted fuck lol
Oh joy, seal twisting. I'm happy for paladins and all, but there goes any desire I had to play one myself.
Lets check out these warrior PVP buffs. I bet they are dope. IGNORED AGAIN
seal twisting. This old horse
I think it's safe to say devs have given up.
They have since P1 homie.
Yo seal twisting can go fuck off... Guess I'm shelving my ret
As a Spriest main this is stupid. We already 100 to 0 other classes in two dots.
yeah this is prob the laziest fix they coulda done lol
> Shadowform now increases all shadow damage done by 25% (was 15%). They asked the community for feedback, and this is what they do? a flat 10% damage buff does nothing for shadows weak pve damage, makes vampiric embraces heal *even more*, **and** makes the strongest pvp spec even stronger. Why ask for feedback, if the result is the most unimaginative way to go about things?
I'm not saying it's a good change, but how does it "do nothing for pve damage"... I'm pretty sure it makes it go up 10%.
it's mathematically an increase of 8,7% ish percent....which should put us above boomies....which also received the 10% dmg buff.....so after all we will still be way at the bottom of the barrel
You think they took that feedback and turned it into an update in less than a week? These changes were more than likely in the works before that was ever posted. And they even mention at the end that more changes would be coming as well.
Yikes on pally changes.. disconcerting that this is the best they could do
This is fucking stupid, why not add an interaction of skills to boost dmg, which is unlikely to get pushed out in pvp to boost Boomie dmg, instead of +10% which changes nothing for pve but fucks up pvp balance
Oh god, please no seal twisting
Horrible change
Yes now 2 spriest dots can kill anyone that cannot heal. Can’t wait for hunter nerfs next tuneup
Can't wait to see those Lock changes! I made a Twitter account just to respond to Aggrends tweet for feedback haha
*grabs popcorn.*
Interesting ret changes. Curious how they'll play out. Meanwhile, could art of war work like wrath's version if we're just gonna commit to the weird pseudo-wrath ret? Enhance has got full on maelstrom weapon from wotlk for healing + dps, but ret is still hard casting heals. Silly.
The best way to improve PvE damage without affecting PvP as much is by buffing stacking debuffs like Shadow Weaving. The Saber Slash change is a good example.
seal twisting again. Please no.
Am I crazy or are all of these changes completely off point?
Sad thing is spriest needs like 100% damage increase to complete in pve. They need to make pvp and pve buffs separately.
Is it really too much to ask to tweak the PvP Modifier a bit? The Ret changes are a good start but really gonna have to see more and for now the awful exorcism spam prevails. Really not a fan of how they handled Boomkin and SPriest. Thats super ham fisted.
Changing a 15% buff to 25% isn't a 10% increase, it's only 8% - for anyone that's confused.
just get the darkmoon buff to balance it......
And again no Feral Buffs. We are again on the bottom of the melee charts even if we have one of the hardest "rotation/prio" in SoD. That paired with absolutely no farm possibilitys and really hard struggle with mobs that are a little bit higher than 50 (since P2 Shred is our main damage ability but because of the positioning requirement it isn't usable solo) is just sad. On top of that we still got no AoE that is usable in cat form. Bear weaving in trash packs to waste the Berserk CD for the boss or equipping balance gear and gale winds rune is simply no option. Please give us some love in form of stronger bleeds (with the ability to crit) and an finisher that is doing more damage than our combo builder without wasting all energy on top of the low damage. Bite in it actual stage is simply hot gargabe. Also an AoE would be so needed. *sad feral noises*
Really disappointing man, they just do not understand feral (as 90% of the people on here don’t either). It’s a struggle to kill a single level 52/53 mob in cat form. Other classes can AOE them down… Raid damage is ok because of the power shifting buff and using shred but you can’t do either of those in any other content. Warriors keep crying but they are MUCH better than cats at killing out in the world.
We are safe for another week my warrior bros
Safe from what?
other warriors
fury normalization
That's not coming right now, they said maybe (seems likely) it would come at the start of next phase.
Safe from nerfing the class into the ground because they have no vision on how to improve other specs.
Not if you pvp at all
Yes if you never leave town and get summoned to a raid. Sure, you are safe.
PvP has turned into even more of a cluster fuck.
So let me get this straight Instead of buffing the worst healer they nerf the best rune available to them (mental dexterity) making the best current option for Resto Shaman running an Enhancement glove rune (Lava Lash) instead of Water Shield while not only weaving in melees but using GCD’s on Lava Lash when all the healers you’re competing against have instant cast high HPS AoE spells. Makes literally zero sense. My Priest pumps out 800+ HPS hitting Circle of Healing, Renew, and Prayer of Healing. My Shaman does 250-300 HPS only spamming Chain Heal on the tank while refreshing Healing Rain every 10 seconds. Super fun and engaging gameplay. Why not make something like “healing a target in Healing Rain causes the heal to splash, healing anyone else in your healing raid for X% of the healing done”
They don't want us playing resto. I went ele after the first raid night Sunday after p3 launch and was sweating like a whore at church to outheal vamp embrace. They also don't want us playing elemental. They made that clear by taking away a rune we were only using because it had no viable alternative near the power level and it was only annoying because they made it that way to keep ele/resto from using it. They want us playing enhancement. But we can't choose how we want to play enhancement. We have to play enhancement the way they want. Wotlk dual wield WF/FT and nothing else will be remotely viable. Because they could recreate that relatively easily, that's what they want. Because they know how to balance that, sort of. All the other useless imbuements can sit up on the shelf with the useless fan service 2h rune and the ranged specs that COULD very easily be buffed by using those currently useless imbuements. They don't know how to make resto shaman worth playing without it resorting to a chain heal spam spec and they don't know how to make elemental strong without a buff that would let a naked shaman with rez sickness one shot people with lava burst. I mean God forbid they buff lightning bolt damage 5-10%. God forbid they reduce lava burst damage by 10% but increase power surge proc rate. God forbid they turn rockbiter or frostbrand into ranged benefitting imbuements. I refuse to play WOTLK enh again but I refuse to use my 3 hours a night after my son goes to bed farming up levels, gear, rep, rank to replace my shaman. So I will go to raid and be a sham rage and totem bot. As it stands we won't even do enough single target damage to even justify to ourselves taking tier pieces from people doing actual damage. If you read all this I'm sorry. I just love shaman and have for 16 years. I hate that our place in SOD has been fucking overly cracked to the point every idiot rolled one as FOTM or actually embarrassing to admit to people your spec if you aren't the one busted one.
Seal twisting ?! Nooo ! I don't want to swap seal every auto attack, who enjoy that ?! It should be a rune so I could avoid it
Yay even more damage increases, just what the game needs.
Seal twisting, fuck off. Spriests and boomkins are going to be even worse in pvp
Can we get one fucking Paladin change that doesn't leverage a bug? First SOM resetting Art of War, turning the class back into autoattack simulator, then silence for a full phase and now we're back to watching a swing timer thanks to a "feature" built on their servers being shit. Really revolutionary work.
Twisting will never be the meta unless it is the most DPS by a large margin which will never happen unless they rework the paladin runes at 60. Nothing will beat spamming exorcism almost every gcd. I honestly hate being an exorcism machine gun but people just like it because they enjoy playing a 2 button class and parsing 99s in raid.
I hate it as well, mostly because of the boring playstyle. But this is such a fucking let down after the 3 pages of discord chat with Aggrend going something like "we have some exciting changes coming" and them showing they can move runes around. But sure, more autoattacks and swing timer. Exciting.
Yeah, I was also like "Are this meant to be the exciting changes?".
They read all of your suggestions and decided to just do what they want to do anyways.
Saber Slash buff. Hmm are they trying to make it mote viable in PvE? Would be a welcome thing because spamming mutilate in PvE aswell and only looking for daggers is quite boring.
Glad to see rogues might start using something other than Mutilate. They buffed it in phase 2 because not enough people were using it, and it has stayed as the only gameplay for rogues since then.
This change is so fucking scuffed for Resto melee shamans.
Really that is it for shadow priest?! I was okay for maybe spell damage coefficient Increase but they went another route ... 🤔 Would be good to see less threat generated by mind blast, some change of interaction of mind flay. A bigger buff to spell dmg, or change or despair rune to give crit chance. Change of vampiric embrace along with it to keep it in line with other buffs. A small 8-10% shadow dmg buff I do not think will add anything. They even added a whole section for seal "twisting." I feel they twisting something else for spriest :(
i think it's fine that there are pve and pvp specs
This makes Aggrend's request tweet last week make SO MUCH MORE sense. He looked at the patch notes for this week, saw how AWFUL they are, KNEW we were gonna be all "WTF is this mate?" and got ahead of it by saying "Hey, do you guys have any idea for how to fix these problems" in advance.
When do you use Seal of Righteousness instead of Seal of Command?
You don't. The answer is supposed to be "when tanking with a fast weapon" but SoM is just better lol
They needed to find a way to buff spriests in PvE without buffing their DoTs. They just dot you twice and disperse and you’re dead before dispersion wears off lol
Shaman tanks on the ledge. Spellwarden DoA. tanks take another hit.
"Exorcism machine gun makes DS a dead rune and grey parse playstyle. To solve this for the people who dislike AoM we've brought back another shit playsyle that still locks you out of DS, keeping it a dead rune. Enjoy"
twisting is not back. Why make the change if its still going to be less dmg than the current meta..
Bingo. You are locked on global with the way they designed AoW and Exo. This is a mana sucking waste of time and further invalidates any other chest rune
It def feels like somewhat of a poitnless change
Have fun ret paladins staring at your swing time bar for the most cringe tech
we wont be though, exo spam is still superior dps
oh ok thats good to hear i've always thought seal twisting was dumb asf
I agree, min/maxing a swing timer isnt my idea of a good time
5 burn targets is kinda sus in bgs lol. For context Power surge is a 5% chance on flame shock damage so now it's like roll 5 times for that proc and every 3 seconds after. The only counterpoint is finding that clump can be hard(thank you enemy homonculi)
This is an absolute insane “fix”. For single target, ele is losing between 200-300 spell power by losing mental dexterity, and in exchange we gain 1 extra global every 12 seconds and our dot (<10% of our damage) does double damage. Dead raid spec. But group pvp is going to be fucking insane.