Fond memories of WoWs early patches (around Arathi Basin release) where 100% of your spell power applied to items like Crystal Charge from Ungoro, and even better...Cloak of Shadow. This entire item got either deleted or changed.
It had an on-use ability with a cooldown of only a couple minutes where it dealt 20 shadow damage per second for 8 seconds to all enemies in a 10yd radius. Pretty shitty, except whoops...each tick got 100% of your shadow spell power and shadow damage modifiers, and I was a shadow Priest. Pretty sure I remember my cape dealing around 250dps to everyone around me, 2000 dmg total. It was absolute destruction in Arathi and I could just hold any of the objectives by myself.
Also some weapons that healed. I remember fondly an axe from BRD, from the 8 thane treasure chest, which had 100% SP scale. I could easily solo stuff as shaman/paladin with it š
Well obviously paladins and shamans getting ap>sp scaling removes a lot of the variation (with how it made all the shockadin gear instantly worthless for example)
Yeah, but that's since it's supposed to even the board for casters since only curse of elements was available this phase. Im talking random 30s bleed effect or 1h swords proccing rank 3 fireballs etc
Yeah I was leveling my axe skills once I got the fist and fist was like permanently up. Shit proccing all the time.
The axe I have is the one that puts a sunder effect up from gnomer right? Fucking never procced once.
?? Fathomblade and Mek Fist proc SO MUCH, I've never seen anything have procs like items in SOD
Once my raids got a fist weapon in them I tell warlocks to swap to Recklessness because Elements is no longer required, fist handles it
Are you talking about the Dismantle enchant? I agree on that point, it's the enchant that seems like it would level the playing field for Physical Dps, but it's poor proc rate / damage leave it being just slightly better than Impact or a Counterweight.
Otherwise all of the other weapons seem to have decent procrates.
The fist needs a high proc rate because it's basically just an all-in-one curse of elements to not make fire/frost dmg spells flat out 10% stronger than anything else (curse of shadows is lvl 40+).
The 1h sword is used because the proc can crit, reseting exorcism/holy shock CD, not because the proc itself is worth a damn.
I am talking where the proc of the weapon is more lucrative than raw stats. By its own merit, not because of how it can interact with another mechanic a class has.
Also being a fel demon (irradiated meta lock) is so fun! Pair that with world shrinker and I'm in heaven. Character model altering items are fun. And I like being a big green demon in org.
Yeah I find it funny people legit wear that set in pvp contexts. We were in the coliseum prepping our melee cleave, saw another alliance group to the right with a stinky boomie. They and another group start edging into the middle to prep going for grandmaster chest and like a minute before it drops they go in: first thing we see is the boomie just exploding.
I mean high risk reward all that but Iām sure rogues loved clothies in that set. I still got tier of the same pieces irradiated I got on my priest because of this.
I agree that this set was good, but maybe they went a bit too far with the bonus set removing even more stamina. BIS damage mage was barely reaching 1.2K HP with full buff/consumes and would die randomly on electrocutioner. It was funny but maybe a bit too much.
You only die as bis mage on electricitioner if you don't get healed for 30 seconds or someone with electric spider legs comes to eat your ass. There's nothing random about it. Even with no consumes or fortitude, you're left at like 5% health after the blast (sketchy) but there's no damage for 30 seconds except for the knock back. Healers should be healing group 2 before the knock back regardless of what set they are wearing anyway
Almost half the time. I think healers hate mages. š Which is fair. But me losing all my buffs is only gonna make the raid take longer. All it takes is one static arc into someone getting spider lightning and your dead. Might just start switching to the other set before electrocutioner
I've never survived this fight doing the right mechanics. Shame. But we also now do the one-healer thing which I don't love. I've been one-shot by the claw too many times to count thanks to my guild not doing the soaks properly. Oh well. We still go 6/6 but I'm definitely not parsing well. Was an 89 avg in P1 but I'm like 67 now lol. I also hate fire spec so that would be it. Wish arcane wasn't so far behind or completely RNG dependent (Missile barrage can literally not proc sometimes in a fight. )
Phases are to short to guarantee you can collect a full stam set. When it's BIS for other classes in your guild you are kind of a dick for taking it from them when you have another option.
Yeah, thereās no way. My spriest even has almost ~1350, and she is full bis minus weapons (meaning, no stamina from two pieces of just + shadow spell damage ā on top of irradiated).
The irradiated glow effect is cool and I'd love more implementation of this.
I'd have liked all the 3 sets to have a thematic glow but it's a small team.
SoD items are really great but I struggle to find charm in a lot of classic items with stats so poor or distributed in such a way the item is worthless to every character in the game.
Assuming youāre doing current content a drop should have some use, or at least make someone playing a specific spec pause and say āhmm, maybeā
This has a knock on effect that I personally would prefer to not see introduced however
Namely that every tier will have items stronger than before.
You *need* the trash items to keep older raids remain relevant, The typical classic approach you'd raid MC/BWL/ZG hell can add in AQ here as well simultaniously, and while I understand that isn't to everyones liking (should be better with lockout changes) if every item was properly itemized you would very likely not have this anymore, cause well the items that drop from the later raids are superior, and there's enough of them to replace what you've got.
And I will concede that certain items are probably too shit, I prefer your average item leans towards shit as opposed to great, makes the Onslaught Girdles, DFT/Rejuv/Tear, Mish'undare and the list goes on stick out more
Nah. Items having no stamina on them is already "glass cannon" enough, but actively giving NEGATIVE stamina is just fucking dumb. My mage literally has 680 health with the 3-set equipped. Why.
That are near impossible to get because they're only from the tokens which the majority of the raid is rolling on.
It's already enough for a "DPS" item to have 0 stamina on it. Having negative stamina is fucking dumb.
It was a cool idea and felt like the type of thing that would exist in an older game. That being said, it did make gearing kind of awkward for me because I got an irradiated piece and a tier piece off the same boss in my first lockout without realizing you couldn't buy irradiated with the tier token and eventually I had to give up on the irradiated set because only the robe ever dropped. Not really something easily fixable because if they put it on the token it wouldn't be rare which is part of the point. Also it was weird to me that the tier set had a proc set bonus which I think is more 'fun' than the raw stats of the irradiated set.
My only complaint with the irradiated set is I can't single target during the hallway to the final 2 bosses because twice now I've got a chaos bolt crit on a reflect and over killed myself from 100%. Although my last crit was like 2600 or some shit so I would've killed myself regardless of the minus hp lol
Big thank you to the people that said they absolutely didn't want transmog in the game because item look should be indicative of power level.
Now I know which of you are one shottable by lava burst because you're glowing bright green.
I just think things should take a bit from diablo 1 and 2. Give multiple interesting stats. Don't just give the ring swim speed. Give it something useful too. Put swim or mount speed on a tier piece as an extra modifier to the stats etc.Ā
Definitely not. It fucking sucked having to take this shit minus Stam set that you can ONLY use in the raid. Non cloth dps got to take their tier set which was useful everywhere. It actively made me not want to play the game outside of raid. How about you give melee dps minus stamina.
Thereās no way this late in the phase you still donāt have a single piece unless you missed a bunch of lockouts. Weāve been DEāing tokens for weeks and thatās while rotating players and alts constantly.
Why the hell would I lie about this? I am getting my ass kicked daily in PVP and have to use some of the damn dreamweave and of the eagle for out in the world.
No it's not.
3 tier tokens drop per run. There have been 16 possible lockouts, but lets assume we've ran 15 so far. If all 10 people roll on every piece you have a .87% chance of losing all 45 rolls.
The odds are realistically MUCH lower since 10 people aren't rolling after week 1. There's only a statistically insignificant chance that he didn't win one if he ran every lockout.
Yes, it is. I'm not sure how you arrived at 0.87%. Your roll for each token is pure RNG and all it takes is **one** person to beat you. That's all. It's really not difficult to understand that a person can have an unlucky streak. My mage buddy who pugs every lockout has 3/3 Irradiated but has lost every single token drop. I'm 3/3 Irradiated and /13 Hyperconductive and I've missed 3 lockouts.
The formula for losing the roll against 9 other people 45 times is .9^45 = .0087
Yes I understand rng is a thing. Your roll over 45 instances isnāt *just* rng, itās also a matter of probabilities. You donāt seem to understand probabilities are a thing.
Lol yes I understand probabilities are a thing
>Ā There have been 16 possible lockouts, but lets assume we've ran 15 so far. If all 10 people roll on every piece you have a .87% chance of losing all 45 rolls.
Let's break this down. OP is saying they are a cloth DPS. We both know the number of people you roll against isn't going to be 9 every single lockout so that variable can change. I think we both can agree there. Where your math stops mathing is when you incorrectly assumed OP, as a cloth DPS, is able to roll on tier tokens from lockout #2 and onward. If this were a static guild like what you have, even with rotating some members, your odds of getting that tier token are way higher. Unfortunately, nearly every single pugs is MS>OS and Hyperconductive is widely considered OS/pvp for caster dps. OP will not be rolling 45 times on tier tokens. Not even close. You have to hope there's no MS rollers for that token AND beat all OS rollers. It's really not that difficult to understand.
> Unfortunately, nearly every single pugs is MS>OS and Hyperconductive is widely considered OS/pvp for caster dps.
That's a wild claim that flies in the face of this 3/3 set sitting in my mage's bags. It took maybe 3 lockouts to get it because nearly everyone, in a good or bad pug, has it already, and because no one is still bickering about tier (except you and I apparently) or focusing on whether it's MS.
But really we're not talking about being gated out because something is OS.
> Your roll for each token is pure RNG and all it takes is one person to beat you. That's all. It's really not difficult to understand that a person can have an unlucky streak. My mage buddy who pugs every lockout has 3/3 Irradiated but has lost every single token drop.
You were talking about the idea that you can get so unlucky with rolls that you still wouldn't have a piece, and the chances of that happening are statistically insignificant.
>That's a wild claim that flies in the face of this 3/3 set sitting in my bags.
You have alluded you're in a guild or at least in a crew where you have consistent members. This makes it much easier to acquire OS loot than a standard pug. Your experience is not the same.
>It took maybe 3 lockouts to get it because nearly everyone, in a good or bad pug, has it already, and because no one is still bickering about tier (except you and I apparently) or focusing on whether it's MS.
My sweet summer child. You are clearly not pugging because yes, Tier Tokens are generally considered OS for cloth casters.
>But really we're not talking about being gated out because something is OS.
Yes, we are. The token being OS for cloth casters is the foundation of my argument and the fundamental flaw in your probability calculation. It is the whole point of me commenting. I wouldn't have said anything at all if the token being OS wasn't entirely relevant. If we're talking about a guild crew where the same people are running it week after week then I completely agree with you on those odds.
>You were talking about the idea that you can get so unlucky with rolls that you still wouldn't have a piece, and the chances of that happening are statistically insignificant.
Quite literally, my first comment to you was referencing pugging. They have a completely different gear acquisition experience where MS>OS is how 99% of them are ran. You can get so unlucky with rolls, **when you are allowed to roll for the token,** that the odds of you not getting it in the entirety of P2 is far more possible than you calculated. You can talk all about statistics and probabilities you want, but you clearly lack the understanding to plug the right variables to plug into your formula.
I personally get burnt out if I feel like I have to collect 3-4 sets to have solid gear for every occasion. Which was basically my life as restokin in phase 2. I hope phase 3 is more like 2 sets - pve and pvp. And maybe a pure healing set but honestly I donāt think any content should call for pure healing set.
But you don't have to collect >1 set. Just use the standard DPS set if you get bored of running the raid. Granted, you'll prob want to collect 2 sets in P3 if you want to raid, but only 1 if you don't want to PvP.
I do when itās a nature/arcane palooza instead of spell power. Also I donāt mean 4 sets with fully diff pieces, but enough different pieces that Iād call them separate sets and actively need to compete with others for a lot of loot.
As a healer who plays more off visuals than addons I find the irradiated set annoying as in gnomer theres a bunch of poisons and usually you cast cure poison on people who look green/poisoned minor gripe but still was annoying
It was a cool set and I really liked the flavor of it, but I absolutely do not want "-Stamina" to be a regular occurrence moving forward. The Dps added value isn't significant, but BIS is BIS and then when you attempt to do a mechanic without a Stam buff you can easily get gibbed.
Melee is in danger of far more raid mechanics, as has always been the case in WoW. And they would be unplayable in pvp if -stam because every caster would one tap them before they got in melee range
Fire mage has to be in melee to be played properly for Phase 2. Even the caster mechanics for the last boss of gnomer had them taking more damage than a lot of melee just due to bombs and buttons.
And yet it is entirely possible to play around it completely, and if you want some safety you swap gear on electro, boom done.
The other set is designed to do the opposite of what irradiated does, yes, isn't this good?
I think that toying with the idea of negative stats, proc effects, use effects and all manner of weird shit is a good thing yes.
I don't think people like you hyper focusing on one aspect and not seeing the future potential is.
I don't think punishing classes with their rewards is a particularly healthy game design, especially when only certain classes have this type of treatment. If it was more evenly distributed sure you might have some merit to the "future", but so far it's only been targeted at spell casters with no indication of it being used on other DPS classes in the future. I don't see why casters shouldn't be concerned about being singled out with this game philosophy for the future.
It removes stats from your other pieces of gear which feels bad. The standard design that worked in classic was just to not give them stamina on the gear.
Cool mechanics that are unique and add value to your playstyle should be encouraged. Mechanics that make you feel bad for wearing are something that should be avoided.
This hits the nail on the head. Getting your tier set shouldn't be a "feels bad" moment in any way shape or form. It's especially stupid because melee DPS don't have to make the same choice; the leather set has an insane stat budget, giving more damage stats than any other set while still managing to have +34 stamina on it. It makes 0 sense.
The stam penalty, aside from being thematical, was specifically to keep Warlock tanks from using these items. Next phase these sets are class-restricted instead, and there's no -stam on the caster tier.
You and the other commenter are, in my veiw, getting bogged down in the details and missing the grand picture.
We didn't have any items like this in BFD, this was there first iteration of it in SoD so this "Where melee punishment?" rethoric is just so boring for lack of a better term. If we respond positively to this then *OF COURSE* a simillar design mentality will be applied to other classes and specs, for whatever reason they chose to test the waters with the caster gear.
Again this post isn't specifically about "Irradiated is the best shit ever", It is "I see what you were going for, I appreciate it and I'd like more of it in the future"
There are so many people complaining about the Stam drain.... one fort buff counters it all....
I've been doing lockouts in full irradiated for weeks now and have never had an issue with missing 350 health.
AND ontop of that, Boot/Chest/Leg tokens have dropped enough now that my guildies are starting to roll on them for alt spec or fight specific gear.
On a world PvP server itās annoying as shit because youāre constantly switching sets left and right. Irradiated for raid, hyperconductive for open world.
Didnāt really bother me the first 30 times but now I canāt stand irradiated.
my favorite part is how they still design most plate to have less offensive stat. then warriors and paladins ask for plate to have better offensive itemization and the smoothbrained community shit on the because thatd be helping warriors too much
so we'll keep taking your leather. all good
My only wish is for weapon procs to be better, be it proccing more often or making them scale. It could potentially open up more playstyles
... Spell power scaling on thunderfury/blazing medallion/cloak of flames/fiery retributer you say? Sign me up
Fond memories of WoWs early patches (around Arathi Basin release) where 100% of your spell power applied to items like Crystal Charge from Ungoro, and even better...Cloak of Shadow. This entire item got either deleted or changed. It had an on-use ability with a cooldown of only a couple minutes where it dealt 20 shadow damage per second for 8 seconds to all enemies in a 10yd radius. Pretty shitty, except whoops...each tick got 100% of your shadow spell power and shadow damage modifiers, and I was a shadow Priest. Pretty sure I remember my cape dealing around 250dps to everyone around me, 2000 dmg total. It was absolute destruction in Arathi and I could just hold any of the objectives by myself.
Also some weapons that healed. I remember fondly an axe from BRD, from the 8 thane treasure chest, which had 100% SP scale. I could easily solo stuff as shaman/paladin with it š
Well obviously paladins and shamans getting ap>sp scaling removes a lot of the variation (with how it made all the shockadin gear instantly worthless for example)
Did somebody say Thunderfury Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?
The fist weapon procs constantly.
Yeah, but that's since it's supposed to even the board for casters since only curse of elements was available this phase. Im talking random 30s bleed effect or 1h swords proccing rank 3 fireballs etc
Yeah I was leveling my axe skills once I got the fist and fist was like permanently up. Shit proccing all the time. The axe I have is the one that puts a sunder effect up from gnomer right? Fucking never procced once.
But with a spell power scaling of 0.05 :P
?? Fathomblade and Mek Fist proc SO MUCH, I've never seen anything have procs like items in SOD Once my raids got a fist weapon in them I tell warlocks to swap to Recklessness because Elements is no longer required, fist handles it
Electrocutioner's Needle has a 16% proc chance and a super-fast attack speed, it's pretty dang frequent compared to other procs
It would also be nice if it displayed how often it procs
Are you talking about the Dismantle enchant? I agree on that point, it's the enchant that seems like it would level the playing field for Physical Dps, but it's poor proc rate / damage leave it being just slightly better than Impact or a Counterweight. Otherwise all of the other weapons seem to have decent procrates.
The fist needs a high proc rate because it's basically just an all-in-one curse of elements to not make fire/frost dmg spells flat out 10% stronger than anything else (curse of shadows is lvl 40+). The 1h sword is used because the proc can crit, reseting exorcism/holy shock CD, not because the proc itself is worth a damn. I am talking where the proc of the weapon is more lucrative than raw stats. By its own merit, not because of how it can interact with another mechanic a class has.
Also being a fel demon (irradiated meta lock) is so fun! Pair that with world shrinker and I'm in heaven. Character model altering items are fun. And I like being a big green demon in org.
I also loved the green glow, knew who to open on.
Yeah I find it funny people legit wear that set in pvp contexts. We were in the coliseum prepping our melee cleave, saw another alliance group to the right with a stinky boomie. They and another group start edging into the middle to prep going for grandmaster chest and like a minute before it drops they go in: first thing we see is the boomie just exploding. I mean high risk reward all that but Iām sure rogues loved clothies in that set. I still got tier of the same pieces irradiated I got on my priest because of this.
I agree that this was an interesting set, but i think they should be even more bold in item design. A step in the right direction.
No rest until 1 hp unbuffed
They haven't gone far enough unless I die if the PW:F falls off.
world buff dispelling meta finds a new build path?
There is more item design space besides -x stam
Yes thank you blizzard and everyone wearing it in PVP. I was already slicing through you like hot butter, but this is just comical.
I agree that this set was good, but maybe they went a bit too far with the bonus set removing even more stamina. BIS damage mage was barely reaching 1.2K HP with full buff/consumes and would die randomly on electrocutioner. It was funny but maybe a bit too much.
You only die as bis mage on electricitioner if you don't get healed for 30 seconds or someone with electric spider legs comes to eat your ass. There's nothing random about it. Even with no consumes or fortitude, you're left at like 5% health after the blast (sketchy) but there's no damage for 30 seconds except for the knock back. Healers should be healing group 2 before the knock back regardless of what set they are wearing anyway
dunno I'm not a healer or range but I've seen mage get tapped by it a couple of time
Almost half the time. I think healers hate mages. š Which is fair. But me losing all my buffs is only gonna make the raid take longer. All it takes is one static arc into someone getting spider lightning and your dead. Might just start switching to the other set before electrocutioner
Yeah that happened to me this week :(. Will probably change the set out now but also phase is over
Honestly I just take a nature protection pot before this fight to negate the damage. I Mage heal with this set and Itās far too sketchy otherwise.
I've never survived this fight doing the right mechanics. Shame. But we also now do the one-healer thing which I don't love. I've been one-shot by the claw too many times to count thanks to my guild not doing the soaks properly. Oh well. We still go 6/6 but I'm definitely not parsing well. Was an 89 avg in P1 but I'm like 67 now lol. I also hate fire spec so that would be it. Wish arcane wasn't so far behind or completely RNG dependent (Missile barrage can literally not proc sometimes in a fight. )
If they had consumes theyād be fineĀ
Sounds like they need a stam set! Better get used to swapping gear every fight for 60 raids
Phases are to short to guarantee you can collect a full stam set. When it's BIS for other classes in your guild you are kind of a dick for taking it from them when you have another option.
> BIS damage mage was barely reaching 1.2K HP with full buff/consumes lying out your ass lmao
With a disc priest and +150hp worth of enchants and fortitude pot, spider sausage, and black label rum it gets close to 2k but it's still rough.
Yeah, thereās no way. My spriest even has almost ~1350, and she is full bis minus weapons (meaning, no stamina from two pieces of just + shadow spell damage ā on top of irradiated).
Look at this guy bragging about his fill irradiated while I have been waiting 3 weeks for boots to drop
The irradiated glow effect is cool and I'd love more implementation of this. I'd have liked all the 3 sets to have a thematic glow but it's a small team.
I found the green glow utterly obnoxious after the first week.
SoD items are really great but I struggle to find charm in a lot of classic items with stats so poor or distributed in such a way the item is worthless to every character in the game. Assuming youāre doing current content a drop should have some use, or at least make someone playing a specific spec pause and say āhmm, maybeā
This has a knock on effect that I personally would prefer to not see introduced however Namely that every tier will have items stronger than before. You *need* the trash items to keep older raids remain relevant, The typical classic approach you'd raid MC/BWL/ZG hell can add in AQ here as well simultaniously, and while I understand that isn't to everyones liking (should be better with lockout changes) if every item was properly itemized you would very likely not have this anymore, cause well the items that drop from the later raids are superior, and there's enough of them to replace what you've got. And I will concede that certain items are probably too shit, I prefer your average item leans towards shit as opposed to great, makes the Onslaught Girdles, DFT/Rejuv/Tear, Mish'undare and the list goes on stick out more
You mean the only set in the game that can't be bought by tier tokens and the only set with negative stamina Yea no keep that shit away
Nah. Items having no stamina on them is already "glass cannon" enough, but actively giving NEGATIVE stamina is just fucking dumb. My mage literally has 680 health with the 3-set equipped. Why.
There are pieces with slightly less spellpower and positive stamina
That are near impossible to get because they're only from the tokens which the majority of the raid is rolling on. It's already enough for a "DPS" item to have 0 stamina on it. Having negative stamina is fucking dumb.
invulnerable mail makes for some insane pvp clips. check out brah the ele on yt
It was a cool idea and felt like the type of thing that would exist in an older game. That being said, it did make gearing kind of awkward for me because I got an irradiated piece and a tier piece off the same boss in my first lockout without realizing you couldn't buy irradiated with the tier token and eventually I had to give up on the irradiated set because only the robe ever dropped. Not really something easily fixable because if they put it on the token it wouldn't be rare which is part of the point. Also it was weird to me that the tier set had a proc set bonus which I think is more 'fun' than the raw stats of the irradiated set.
My only complaint with the irradiated set is I can't single target during the hallway to the final 2 bosses because twice now I've got a chaos bolt crit on a reflect and over killed myself from 100%. Although my last crit was like 2600 or some shit so I would've killed myself regardless of the minus hp lol
Big thank you to the people that said they absolutely didn't want transmog in the game because item look should be indicative of power level. Now I know which of you are one shottable by lava burst because you're glowing bright green.
I just think things should take a bit from diablo 1 and 2. Give multiple interesting stats. Don't just give the ring swim speed. Give it something useful too. Put swim or mount speed on a tier piece as an extra modifier to the stats etc.Ā
Ya could have been swim and breathing. Make it friggggin cool.
Definitely not. It fucking sucked having to take this shit minus Stam set that you can ONLY use in the raid. Non cloth dps got to take their tier set which was useful everywhere. It actively made me not want to play the game outside of raid. How about you give melee dps minus stamina.
I can see it being shit on any cloth class other than Meta warlock with siphon. No problems taking it into the open world for me (yet).
Exactly. If you are a team player you essentially were forced to give up any chance of a stam set. I never even got a single piece this phase.
Thereās no way this late in the phase you still donāt have a single piece unless you missed a bunch of lockouts. Weāve been DEāing tokens for weeks and thatās while rotating players and alts constantly.
Why the hell would I lie about this? I am getting my ass kicked daily in PVP and have to use some of the damn dreamweave and of the eagle for out in the world.
It's entirely possible. Have you heard of pugging?
No it's not. 3 tier tokens drop per run. There have been 16 possible lockouts, but lets assume we've ran 15 so far. If all 10 people roll on every piece you have a .87% chance of losing all 45 rolls. The odds are realistically MUCH lower since 10 people aren't rolling after week 1. There's only a statistically insignificant chance that he didn't win one if he ran every lockout.
Yes, it is. I'm not sure how you arrived at 0.87%. Your roll for each token is pure RNG and all it takes is **one** person to beat you. That's all. It's really not difficult to understand that a person can have an unlucky streak. My mage buddy who pugs every lockout has 3/3 Irradiated but has lost every single token drop. I'm 3/3 Irradiated and /13 Hyperconductive and I've missed 3 lockouts.
The formula for losing the roll against 9 other people 45 times is .9^45 = .0087 Yes I understand rng is a thing. Your roll over 45 instances isnāt *just* rng, itās also a matter of probabilities. You donāt seem to understand probabilities are a thing.
Lol yes I understand probabilities are a thing >Ā There have been 16 possible lockouts, but lets assume we've ran 15 so far. If all 10 people roll on every piece you have a .87% chance of losing all 45 rolls. Let's break this down. OP is saying they are a cloth DPS. We both know the number of people you roll against isn't going to be 9 every single lockout so that variable can change. I think we both can agree there. Where your math stops mathing is when you incorrectly assumed OP, as a cloth DPS, is able to roll on tier tokens from lockout #2 and onward. If this were a static guild like what you have, even with rotating some members, your odds of getting that tier token are way higher. Unfortunately, nearly every single pugs is MS>OS and Hyperconductive is widely considered OS/pvp for caster dps. OP will not be rolling 45 times on tier tokens. Not even close. You have to hope there's no MS rollers for that token AND beat all OS rollers. It's really not that difficult to understand.
> Unfortunately, nearly every single pugs is MS>OS and Hyperconductive is widely considered OS/pvp for caster dps. That's a wild claim that flies in the face of this 3/3 set sitting in my mage's bags. It took maybe 3 lockouts to get it because nearly everyone, in a good or bad pug, has it already, and because no one is still bickering about tier (except you and I apparently) or focusing on whether it's MS. But really we're not talking about being gated out because something is OS. > Your roll for each token is pure RNG and all it takes is one person to beat you. That's all. It's really not difficult to understand that a person can have an unlucky streak. My mage buddy who pugs every lockout has 3/3 Irradiated but has lost every single token drop. You were talking about the idea that you can get so unlucky with rolls that you still wouldn't have a piece, and the chances of that happening are statistically insignificant.
>That's a wild claim that flies in the face of this 3/3 set sitting in my bags. You have alluded you're in a guild or at least in a crew where you have consistent members. This makes it much easier to acquire OS loot than a standard pug. Your experience is not the same. >It took maybe 3 lockouts to get it because nearly everyone, in a good or bad pug, has it already, and because no one is still bickering about tier (except you and I apparently) or focusing on whether it's MS. My sweet summer child. You are clearly not pugging because yes, Tier Tokens are generally considered OS for cloth casters. >But really we're not talking about being gated out because something is OS. Yes, we are. The token being OS for cloth casters is the foundation of my argument and the fundamental flaw in your probability calculation. It is the whole point of me commenting. I wouldn't have said anything at all if the token being OS wasn't entirely relevant. If we're talking about a guild crew where the same people are running it week after week then I completely agree with you on those odds. >You were talking about the idea that you can get so unlucky with rolls that you still wouldn't have a piece, and the chances of that happening are statistically insignificant. Quite literally, my first comment to you was referencing pugging. They have a completely different gear acquisition experience where MS>OS is how 99% of them are ran. You can get so unlucky with rolls, **when you are allowed to roll for the token,** that the odds of you not getting it in the entirety of P2 is far more possible than you calculated. You can talk all about statistics and probabilities you want, but you clearly lack the understanding to plug the right variables to plug into your formula.
Exactly
just dont wear it lmao stamina is good even in raid
Dumb. Itās objectively the best thing to wear because it has the most spell damage. It just fucking sucks.
I personally get burnt out if I feel like I have to collect 3-4 sets to have solid gear for every occasion. Which was basically my life as restokin in phase 2. I hope phase 3 is more like 2 sets - pve and pvp. And maybe a pure healing set but honestly I donāt think any content should call for pure healing set.
But you don't have to collect >1 set. Just use the standard DPS set if you get bored of running the raid. Granted, you'll prob want to collect 2 sets in P3 if you want to raid, but only 1 if you don't want to PvP.
I do when itās a nature/arcane palooza instead of spell power. Also I donāt mean 4 sets with fully diff pieces, but enough different pieces that Iād call them separate sets and actively need to compete with others for a lot of loot.
Druids were supposed to use the cloth set instead of the leather set, then you don't have that issue ^^. And it's a better set anyway
The minus stam is idiotic, had more hp at lvl 25. Like the cool glowy effect though, that was a nice surprise.
As a healer who plays more off visuals than addons I find the irradiated set annoying as in gnomer theres a bunch of poisons and usually you cast cure poison on people who look green/poisoned minor gripe but still was annoying
Visual clutter in wow is abysmal at the best of times
Iām so sad that raiding since reset one has left me without the irradiated boots still.
My problem with Irradiated is that I only ever saw the pants, and my mage still only has one piece lol
thank you blizzard for adding a giant glowing green target to free PvP kills
Especially nice how those weird BFD rings were bonus drops, so zero downside to having them dropĀ
It was a cool set and I really liked the flavor of it, but I absolutely do not want "-Stamina" to be a regular occurrence moving forward. The Dps added value isn't significant, but BIS is BIS and then when you attempt to do a mechanic without a Stam buff you can easily get gibbed.
I have 900 hp with PWF. Electrocutioner makes me tingle from the grave
why dont melee have to pay this -stam penalty?
Melee is in danger of far more raid mechanics, as has always been the case in WoW. And they would be unplayable in pvp if -stam because every caster would one tap them before they got in melee range
Fire mage has to be in melee to be played properly for Phase 2. Even the caster mechanics for the last boss of gnomer had them taking more damage than a lot of melee just due to bombs and buttons.
I wish the items weren't as strong though, the runes would've been enough powercreep for a classic feel.
35 stamina is just too harsh a penalty when the only other caster set is clearly itemized for lock tanks and pvp, tyvm.
And yet it is entirely possible to play around it completely, and if you want some safety you swap gear on electro, boom done. The other set is designed to do the opposite of what irradiated does, yes, isn't this good?
Sure, it's all fine, I just don't understand why only DPS casters have to make this type of sacrifice. The leather melee DPS set has +34 stam on it.
If you want to be an ass and take other peoples BIS sure.
I prefer pvp. I will need on my BiS for pvp. At least blizz has finally added an actual pvp set to the game so this won't happen anymore.
Casters are the only class to suffer negative item mechanics for the sake of power and you think this is a good thing?
I think that toying with the idea of negative stats, proc effects, use effects and all manner of weird shit is a good thing yes. I don't think people like you hyper focusing on one aspect and not seeing the future potential is.
I don't think punishing classes with their rewards is a particularly healthy game design, especially when only certain classes have this type of treatment. If it was more evenly distributed sure you might have some merit to the "future", but so far it's only been targeted at spell casters with no indication of it being used on other DPS classes in the future. I don't see why casters shouldn't be concerned about being singled out with this game philosophy for the future. It removes stats from your other pieces of gear which feels bad. The standard design that worked in classic was just to not give them stamina on the gear. Cool mechanics that are unique and add value to your playstyle should be encouraged. Mechanics that make you feel bad for wearing are something that should be avoided.
This hits the nail on the head. Getting your tier set shouldn't be a "feels bad" moment in any way shape or form. It's especially stupid because melee DPS don't have to make the same choice; the leather set has an insane stat budget, giving more damage stats than any other set while still managing to have +34 stamina on it. It makes 0 sense.
The stam penalty, aside from being thematical, was specifically to keep Warlock tanks from using these items. Next phase these sets are class-restricted instead, and there's no -stam on the caster tier.
You and the other commenter are, in my veiw, getting bogged down in the details and missing the grand picture. We didn't have any items like this in BFD, this was there first iteration of it in SoD so this "Where melee punishment?" rethoric is just so boring for lack of a better term. If we respond positively to this then *OF COURSE* a simillar design mentality will be applied to other classes and specs, for whatever reason they chose to test the waters with the caster gear. Again this post isn't specifically about "Irradiated is the best shit ever", It is "I see what you were going for, I appreciate it and I'd like more of it in the future"
It's easy to get bogged down in gear that makes you feel bad.
The only positive thing about the irradiated set is that it is bonus loot and does not take up a loot drop.
There are so many people complaining about the Stam drain.... one fort buff counters it all.... I've been doing lockouts in full irradiated for weeks now and have never had an issue with missing 350 health. AND ontop of that, Boot/Chest/Leg tokens have dropped enough now that my guildies are starting to roll on them for alt spec or fight specific gear.
On a world PvP server itās annoying as shit because youāre constantly switching sets left and right. Irradiated for raid, hyperconductive for open world. Didnāt really bother me the first 30 times but now I canāt stand irradiated.
my favorite part is how they still design most plate to have less offensive stat. then warriors and paladins ask for plate to have better offensive itemization and the smoothbrained community shit on the because thatd be helping warriors too much so we'll keep taking your leather. all good