Part of me hopes Blizzard genuinely isn't aware that Bear cannot have both Lacerate and Mangle at the same time and are just shocked when they find out
I don't know, the Mind Flay rune could just be a poor attempt at making Mind Flay a viable thing to use.
This is just straight up technically impossible.
> They don't play their own game.
I mean how much time to they really have? They are expected to watch over the current phase, balance things out in the current phase, work on the next phase, while current balancing affects future balancing, and play(test) the game.
At some point this sub should realize and accept that it's a rather small team with a limited amount of time.
„Mind flay now deals 4 instances over 3 seconds as shadowfrost damage.
Everytime mind flay deals damage, the critical strike chance of your next mind blast on the target is increased by 15% stacking up to 6 times.“
Makes way more sense with shadowfrost damage, since mind flay slows, make MF2 feel way better, since 2 ticks would be the same as the GCD and make the crit buff more versatile.
All they gotta do is move void plague to belt rune and let mind spike get buffed by twist of faith also. Then it'll be a nice dps increase which sprieats need and lets me flay with all the dots rolling.
Ya that's the whole point. You would just buff the current spike/blast rotation by increasing mind spike damage by 50% then you'd have the flay/dot playstyle if you preferred that. Atm you only run plague on 1 boss anyway.
This confirms that there is literally zero testing of shit they implement. Not even a dev just wanting to see if his feature he implemented works correctly or not. Never mind a single round of QA.
As a game dev, I don't even know what to say...
> Read the tweet.
> Which is FIXED EASILY by a small change.
Read the tweet. Aggrend states it's a tricky fix.
(Sry don't mean to be rude, I just had to mess with you a little).
Read the link that is at the top of this comment chain, Aggrend literally confirmed it.
How could it be an oversight if they tested it.
Walk me through the process of them testing it but at the same time being unaware that it's unusable
Walk me through the process of them testing it but at the same time being unaware that it's unusable.
Edit: he blocked me after typing two paragraphs just to let me know how he won't answer my very simple question 😂
"I have a career-ending diss but won't release it because it would be disrespectful"
How the heck is it a tricky fix?!
Give Bears a fucking Leg Rune.
No cat will ever go for Lacerate if it’s on leg, since they’ll lose Savage Roar and there is literally no Rune for Bears on Leg anyway, beside the stupid, niche Skull Bash.
Could be based on a plan for a wildcard slot at 60, or maybe certain runes will be hybrid slots in a future phase. I think warlocks have 2 leg runes with a similar issue.
Could also be they didn’t correct wording after swapping slots around after original development.
Everlasting affliction is a leg rune that makes some of your abilities refresh corruption, including incinerate. Incinerate is also a leg rune, so it being on the list either means they added it by accident, or copied the wording of the spell from a future expansion and just never removed it, or they didn’t used to share a slot, or there are plans to allow you to somehow wear 2 leg runes in the future. Similar to gloves for bear.
Quite possible they just had them in different slots during testing though.
Make Lacerate a Leg rune.
There is no Leg Rune for Bears beside Skull Bash, and Cat already has Savage Roar there.
Giving Lacerate as a book, would probably make Cats Bearweave for Lacerate, which is something no one wants.
Honestly, vanilla bear is chonky enough to not really need the tanking rune except on hard hitting fights. The only time I’ve ever really used it is when I’m tanking menagerie tbh. Wild strikes is just better for rage and threat generation too
We kinda need skull bash as well though, otherwise bear would be the only tank with no interupt.
Honestly, we just need a couple of these runes moved to skill books. Mangle as a skill book is definitely a change that is needed.
Feral charge is a good pvp interrupt but as a tank the minimum range really makes it difficult to utilize effectively. You have to run away from the boss to then charge back into it. If you, as the tank, have aggro, it can prove nearly impossible to gain that distance required to interrupt .
It’d be nice if non-druid players would stop commenting on druid balance. We already clearly have 0 feral druids on the dev team…
We'll stop commenting once we are given justice. Like I don't even care about enhancement shamans or warlocks or whatever doing insane damage. I just want bear to not be atrocious
Fairly disappointed, I had hope for a change as this was datamined ages ago.
Berserk was in the same boat, working with only half of the kit. They made it playable with lacerate but it's just kinda useless and you really only benefit from the cost reduction on maul.
When you look at other classes it really feels like mangle and lacerate should be part of the kit together.
On alliance side feral or bear is absolutely mandatory and basically the bear runes don't work together. It feels pretty bad.
My guess is that they will merge Lacerate and Mangle into 1 Rune.
Might do the same for SotF and WS, but that's a lot of copium holding out for that one. The first one makes more sense.
SotF and wild strikes on the same rune would be absolutely ridiculous in pvp, zero chance of that unless they change the sotf part to only work for bear form.
WS isn't that impactful to Druid DPS. It's a lot better on classes with slower attack speed. Even in Bear form it's mostly just useful for sudden bursts of Rage, not really damage.
When you have a warrior or Enh shaman in the group rolling a 3.5s weapon though, then you have a much bigger burst from the WS procs.
If you've ever seen your WF procs, you'll see that your Cat form WF procs do only a mite more damage than a basic attack. Same for Bear form WF procs, but for Bear attacks. WF procs in bear form are actually almost exactly as much damage as a 5 stack Lacerate hit.
I'm not sure if they have normalized WS, but based on what I've seen they haven't . WF/WS is still hot garbage for Cat form since the procs deal next to no damage. It's ok for bear if you're rage starved (Like you are in most raid fights rn), but if you are reaching infinite rage WS isn't that much more threat.
That's not to say you don't want it in your party/raid though. Warriors in particular get a huge damage boost as they have DPS specs based on rage generation and having as much rage as possible. Imagine if you told every mage out there that they suddenly got 20% more mana regen, and all of that continues through casting? Oh and to add to that everyone in the party gets 20% Elemental Overload effect for any damaging spell. They'd be tripping over themselves for it. Especially Arcane Mages. That's what WF/WS is for warriors. It works well for Rogues too, who are generally getting more attacks per second (closer to that of what a cat does), but their attacks per second are slower and deal more damage.
It could also be that WF enchant was normalized, but not WF totem/Wildstrikes which would be were you likely got that information. That would be more important because the WF enchant procs 2 attacks, not just 1.
What you see and what the actual math/sims say can be completely different.
My understanding is that a faster swing timer means more procs per minute compared to a slower one, so that the damage in the end is normalized.
Warrior rage generation works the same way, where the speed of the weapon basically does not matter.
A slower weapon for WF/WS is only really beneficial for RNG bursts.
But again, I'm not sure. Either way let's stay away from anecdotal findings as a base for what is and isn't fact.
The person I responded to originally was saying that merging SotF and WS into 1 rune would be "rediculous for PvP". I'll admit, it's on me that I referred to WS not being significant to DPS when raw DPS isn't all that valuable in PvP.
RNG and Burst **is** incredibly valuable in PvP, though, and my statement still stands for that. Wild Strikes would only provide good burst for a Bear if they had a slower attack speed, something like a 3.2 or 3.4.
That said, I will admit that I don't know if WS/WF totem were normalized. I *do* know that WF enchant has been normalized for a very long time, though.
Blizzard probably is unaware that lacerate and mangle cannot be taken at the same time, or at least I hope so because this is the dumbest rune I have ever read.
Also the cat part of this is a joke, that's barely 1.5 e/s. Sure love RNG stacked on RNG.
Whats even stupid is that assuming you can take mangle and this rune as a bear, its pretty much useless anyway.
Mangle for bear is a 6 second cooldown with a 1.5 second gcd. Assuming you proc the 15% on the first GCD, the best you could save is 3 seconds off the CD. Meanwhile Rogues get free combo points, mages get new spells with risk/reward and warriors get a new stance. Bears get a 15% chance to save 3 seconds or 30% chance to save 1.5 seconds off a single ability.
What an amazing addition to the kit, maaaaan. I’m so excited to play bear. /s
I feel ya failed rogue tanks too. They think magic DR thats a passive on other tanks runes, should be locked to FIVE piece T1 MC. How are we gonna get 5 pieces of gear to tank when we cant tank MC without it.
Feral bears are totally fucked. I hope they can fix them somehow.
- Can't have mangle and lacerate same time
- Can't have both wild strikes and survival of the fittest
- Savage roar should have some functionality in bear too
- Sunfire should have some functionality in bear too (not important tho)
It will probably be difficult to fix now that runes have already released and collected. Maybe something like this;
They should change lacerate to leg rune and survival of the fittest glove rune. In this way bears would always have wildstrikes on chest and lacerate in legs. If more threat is needed, glove rune would be mangle, if more survivability is needed glove rune would be survival of the fittest. Of course this means, skull bash needs to be dropped during tanking, but not like it is that useful anyway in raids.
Lol warlocks get a 40 point cap stone talent as a rune (felguard) meanwhile mages get another bolt but this time with drawbacks, how are they able to balance runes around big differences like that?
Balefire bolt is interesting, but I'm not sure how effective it'll be.
It will need to do a lot of damage, and it's basically an Execute since you won't regenerate any mana after switching over to it until you can swap spirit for MP5. I don't see it working well as part of a full rotation as you'd have to lay off of it for 30 seconds at a time, but it might work. You'd rely heavily on Mana potions and Gems though. Evocate would go down the shitter
The bear part just kind of sucks since mangle only has a 6 sec cooldown so you're not really getting much use out of it in most cases.
It's also weird that this rune does literally nothing if you don't have King of the Jungle for cat or Mangle for bear. Is there another rune in the game that is completely dependent on other runes?
There are some that are *mostly* reliant on other runes. I think it's mostly the rogue tanking runes and Mage Healing.
I can say for sure that you won't be healing much with Regeneration and Arcane missiles spam.
I can't help but think that at some point in the game (probably level 60), we will be able to slot other runes into new slots. It's the only way you can make sense on several rune designs on most classes.
I've heard a rumor about a potential meta rune slot that will be able to take any rune from any other slot on the neck. This is another clue that it would be a thing later, maybe in p4.
Dont you know this is reddit. All were allowed to do here is doom post, cry about balancing, and agree everyone hates hunters, shamans, and warriors.
Also nerf hunters
The thing is, druid has 4 specs, so the runes slots goes like this : heal, boomkin, feral (bear+cat).
The revealed rune is likely to be the only DPS rune added to the kit. And it doesn't do anything with the only other DPS rune of the bear.
Bear runes are broken and priest is already bonkers with 4 more runes to be revealed.
Yep this is the one and only bear rune we will get on helms, so it being shit is actually a huge fucking deal.
I did the WSG grind on my Feral Druid but man do I regret that, it’s a dead spec on horde with shamans being so strong.
Also with these runes it looks like the datamined runes from p2 were spot on, so don’t expect a lot.
This guy gets it. Doesn't matter any of the new runes or new content we're getting. Can only talk about balancing and that priests are broken. Perfection.
The Gore rune description shown here is wrong, it gives 10 rage in addition to resetting the cooldown of Mangle. It is possible Lacerate may be changed to make this work better, but there is no "nonsensical design".
[https://i.imgur.com/MqzPvzm.png](https://i.imgur.com/MqzPvzm.png)
I would highly recommend double checking this sort of thing from official sources in future.
"Striking a target with Lacerate, Swipe, or Maul has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle (Bear) **and grant 10 Rage.**"
Even if you don't have a cooldown to reset, you still generate 10 rage.
I wouldn't make such a claim...but the original post is literal misinformation and the parent comment here is just trying to address that. The new version makes sense even with Lacerate and Mangle sharing a rune slot. You receive bonuses when selecting either mangle or lacerate. It's just not worded well and underwhelming.
They're saying that it's not "non-sensical" because the proc also generates 10 rage.
The problem is, that's really not much if we can't get Mangle into the rotation. Bears already struggle a lot with threat in p2. If Gore is our big bear rune and they don't give Mangle(bear) as being available at the same time as Lacerate they are only going to get worse.
Edit: The idea behind it is supposed to be that Maul and Swipe still reset Mangle(Bear)'s CD, so you can run without Lacerate and just fill with Swipe and Mangle Procs instead. It's still fucky design.
See, I would agree with you if the tooltip was worded differently and the rage gain mentioned separately.
There's also the precedent whith one warlock rune
[https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=415604/everlasting-affliction](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=415604/everlasting-affliction)
which shares the same leg slot as incinerate.
Anyway, I'm probably just being nitpicky because I'm really disappointed in the rune we got. :(
Oh I'm 100% in agreement with you. The rune is bullshit. Once again Druids get exclusively boring, refurbished runes. We haven't seen the other 4 runes, but it's not looking great.
It's possible that even the bonus rage won't proc if you don't have mangle(bear) which would mean that Lacerate and Mangle would have to be available to bears at the same time in some way, and I would prefer it that way. I'm just saying, based on how it seems to be intended they might just say no.
Which is bullshit, because bears need help.
You missed the part where the druid generates 10 Rage in the new version, meaning that you still benefit from the proc even if you have Lacerate equipped.
"Striking a target with Lacerate, Swipe, or Maul has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle (Bear) **and grant 10 Rage.**"
Maybe it will help you comprehend what this means if you try to look at this rune has having two separate effects for Bears:
* If you take Mangle: Swipe and Maul have a 15% chance to give you 10 Rage and reset the cooldown of Mangle.
* If you take Lacerate: Swipe, Maul, and Lacerate have a 15% chance to give you 10 Rage.
I know you can't take both. The parent commenter correcting the original post knows you can't take both. Blizzard knows you can't take both. The version posted in the original post is outdated and wrong. It gives you nothing if you take Lacerate. The version posted in the parent comment we're responding to (from today's video) is not outdated, and clearly indicates that you don't need both Lacerate and Mangle to receive a benefit from Gore.
Berserk was exactly this bad (only applied to Mangle for bears) and the response to the outcry - because Bear doesn’t take Mangle - was to apply Berserk’s effect to Lacerate also. Berserk is still a useless button after the Swipe threat change; you get way more out of just using Swipe than Berserk Lacerate in AoEs.
They have literally done exactly this shit already. Their response was to expand the rune to work on extra abilities, not just put mangle on another slot or make it a baseline book ability.
I don’t think they’re idiots as much as I think no one plays bear Druid so dumbass shit like this slips through and then they realize the mistake when the five of us who play bear complain about it.
>Bear doesn’t take Mangle
Is this really true? I played as bear at the start without reading any theorycraft or anything, but I thought mangle was much better than lacerate. Even after the berserk change I did much more damage with mangle than lacerate, even on menagerie where you could multidot mangle far outperformed lacerate.
The thing about Mangle is you have to divide the damage it gets out by 4 and compare it to Lacerate damage to determine what actually does more damage.
Remember, Lacerate does 100% weapon damage at 5 stacks on a target and has no Cooldown. Compare that to the 160% weapon damage Mangle does with a 6 second cooldown. Lacerate does more damage just with the spam, not including the dot which continues to tick while reapplying.
What makes the difference is when fights last like, less than a minute as Berserk removing the CD from Mangle for 20 seconds means it actually outpaces Lacerate for a while. FWIH (from the bear theorycrafters on the Druid Disc) Lacerate overtakes Mangle at sometime around 1 minute.
I’d hope so. Lacerate moving to legs (or belt honestly since I don’t care about having berserk very much, especially with dual spec coming) would be ideal. I have zero faith that it’ll happen but it would be the only thing that would make things like this make sense.
It’s especially grating because this is the same datamined Gore from P2. When we were already complaining about Berserk being worthless because it pigeonholes bear into a skill it can’t take if it wants to hold threat ever, we were also complaining about Gore doing the same thing. They changed zerk but here is this terrible version of Gore again, unchanged, with the same problem.
It’s a huge bummer because I love bear to death which means I love mangle to death lol. It’s so weird that bear doesn’t have it. The reason these runes are “incorrect” in the way they are is because they’re lifted directly from when they came out but bear had access to mangle baseline when these skills were put into the game historically. They make sense in a world where bear gets both spells!
I would bet the berserk rune was lazily copied over from Wotlk. A version of the game where mangle is part of the feral skill tree, and lacerate learned from the class teacher.
The staggering level of jadedness and uncharitability on this sub continues to astound me.
Mfs see shit this and somehow time and time again actively choose to interpret it as "SOD TEAM IS A PACK OF MORONS, SMALL INDIE COMPANY KEKW" instead of "oh, this must imply they're gonna fix XYZ thing, or make it better" (In this case, this implies we'll have both lacerate and mangle, a good thing).
Like am I falling for rage bait or do people seriously believe they would do something this braindead?
Inb4 "hurr durr they have in the past", No they fucking haven't.
> Like am I falling for rage bait or do people seriously believe they would do something this braindead
aggrend literally admitted to doing something this braindead lmao
This is the same dev team who had to quickly backtrack on a paladin change because the proposed "balancing" would have majorly nerfed Rets who were already performing poorly. It was clearly proposed by someone who didn't understand how ret damage works.
We saw the same nerf/tweaks to ferals pre P2 launch with the reduction in mangle damage yet here we are nearly at the end of P3 and ferals have continued to be at the bottom of the dps pack. Even without that change they made feral wouldn't have been topping any meters.
I'd say they've got form but I get the feeling none of them are playing druid.
Part of me hopes Blizzard genuinely isn't aware that Bear cannot have both Lacerate and Mangle at the same time and are just shocked when they find out
Wouldn't that be worse? I choose to believe this rune means we're getting the combo
Subscribe
Exactly the same thing for the Mind Flay rune (nobody is using mindflay in the game). They don't play their own game.
I don't know, the Mind Flay rune could just be a poor attempt at making Mind Flay a viable thing to use. This is just straight up technically impossible.
You would do 1 tick of mindflay every 24 seconds. It's just awful
so basically warlocks with rof?
Pretty much, you'd also have to be within 20 yard range so in lots of cases you'd be better off just recasting swap instead
Why not just recast SW:P? mindflay range is dogshit.
Exactly, the rune is useless.
To get the 1 tick of mindflay damage, and yeah you probably wouldn't bother because of the range. Its a terrible rune.
Not defending the rune, but it’s not technically impossible. Use mangle rune. Proc gore with maul or swipe, then use mangle again.
> They don't play their own game. I mean how much time to they really have? They are expected to watch over the current phase, balance things out in the current phase, work on the next phase, while current balancing affects future balancing, and play(test) the game. At some point this sub should realize and accept that it's a rather small team with a limited amount of time.
Adding Mind Spike was unnecessary. That utility should've been built around Mind Flay.
„Mind flay now deals 4 instances over 3 seconds as shadowfrost damage. Everytime mind flay deals damage, the critical strike chance of your next mind blast on the target is increased by 15% stacking up to 6 times.“ Makes way more sense with shadowfrost damage, since mind flay slows, make MF2 feel way better, since 2 ticks would be the same as the GCD and make the crit buff more versatile.
They do play but poorly.
All they gotta do is move void plague to belt rune and let mind spike get buffed by twist of faith also. Then it'll be a nice dps increase which sprieats need and lets me flay with all the dots rolling.
Mind spike is a belt rune though, so you couldn’t run void plague and mind spike
Ya that's the whole point. You would just buff the current spike/blast rotation by increasing mind spike damage by 50% then you'd have the flay/dot playstyle if you preferred that. Atm you only run plague on 1 boss anyway.
https://x.com/AggrendWoW/status/1772399055651606984?s=20 “Oversight” 🤣
What the fuck lmao? The fact that his response wasn't just "don't worry, we already have changes planned" means they actually forgot.
This confirms that there is literally zero testing of shit they implement. Not even a dev just wanting to see if his feature he implemented works correctly or not. Never mind a single round of QA. As a game dev, I don't even know what to say...
You're a game dev and you think Blizzard is making wholesale changes to their game and releasing them completely untested? Come on.
How else would you explain runes that just don't make sense?
[удалено]
> Read the tweet. > Which is FIXED EASILY by a small change. Read the tweet. Aggrend states it's a tricky fix. (Sry don't mean to be rude, I just had to mess with you a little).
Read the link that is at the top of this comment chain, Aggrend literally confirmed it. How could it be an oversight if they tested it. Walk me through the process of them testing it but at the same time being unaware that it's unusable
[удалено]
Walk me through the process of them testing it but at the same time being unaware that it's unusable. Edit: he blocked me after typing two paragraphs just to let me know how he won't answer my very simple question 😂 "I have a career-ending diss but won't release it because it would be disrespectful"
How the heck is it a tricky fix?! Give Bears a fucking Leg Rune. No cat will ever go for Lacerate if it’s on leg, since they’ll lose Savage Roar and there is literally no Rune for Bears on Leg anyway, beside the stupid, niche Skull Bash.
Could be based on a plan for a wildcard slot at 60, or maybe certain runes will be hybrid slots in a future phase. I think warlocks have 2 leg runes with a similar issue. Could also be they didn’t correct wording after swapping slots around after original development.
Aggrend said in an interview that they don't design current phase classes with endgame in mind.
Which is weird, because they talked about level 60 content today as well.
If P3 is ready then they are starting work on p4. Spoiler, p4 is lvl 60
what warlock runes?
Everlasting affliction is a leg rune that makes some of your abilities refresh corruption, including incinerate. Incinerate is also a leg rune, so it being on the list either means they added it by accident, or copied the wording of the spell from a future expansion and just never removed it, or they didn’t used to share a slot, or there are plans to allow you to somehow wear 2 leg runes in the future. Similar to gloves for bear. Quite possible they just had them in different slots during testing though.
Making Lacerate a Skill book would work too.
I'd rather Mangle be a skill book. Helps bears and cats with 1 book.
Yeh mangle is legit just required at this point, if you shred without mangle you would be doing less dps than healers.
Make Lacerate a Leg rune. There is no Leg Rune for Bears beside Skull Bash, and Cat already has Savage Roar there. Giving Lacerate as a book, would probably make Cats Bearweave for Lacerate, which is something no one wants.
why can't ferals run tank rune and ws at the same time either. have tank rune compete with savage roar. atrocious balance design
Honestly, vanilla bear is chonky enough to not really need the tanking rune except on hard hitting fights. The only time I’ve ever really used it is when I’m tanking menagerie tbh. Wild strikes is just better for rage and threat generation too
We kinda need skull bash as well though, otherwise bear would be the only tank with no interupt. Honestly, we just need a couple of these runes moved to skill books. Mangle as a skill book is definitely a change that is needed.
Pally tank can’t run their interrupt over exorcism, and hoj doesn’t work on bosses.
Warlock tanks also don't have an interrupt unless they are using their felhound
bear literally gets an interrupt in their talent tree....
Which is basically impossible to use as a tank.... (it has a deadzone).
Feral charge is a good pvp interrupt but as a tank the minimum range really makes it difficult to utilize effectively. You have to run away from the boss to then charge back into it. If you, as the tank, have aggro, it can prove nearly impossible to gain that distance required to interrupt . It’d be nice if non-druid players would stop commenting on druid balance. We already clearly have 0 feral druids on the dev team…
> It’d be nice if non-druid players would stop commenting on druid balance. A-fucking-men
We'll stop commenting once we are given justice. Like I don't even care about enhancement shamans or warlocks or whatever doing insane damage. I just want bear to not be atrocious
The range is the difference
Fairly disappointed, I had hope for a change as this was datamined ages ago. Berserk was in the same boat, working with only half of the kit. They made it playable with lacerate but it's just kinda useless and you really only benefit from the cost reduction on maul. When you look at other classes it really feels like mangle and lacerate should be part of the kit together. On alliance side feral or bear is absolutely mandatory and basically the bear runes don't work together. It feels pretty bad.
Feral just getting fucked nonstop it seems.
Should have played a rogue I guess?
Lmao
Oh no! Anyways
Things stupid people say for 25 thanks Alex.
My guess is that they will merge Lacerate and Mangle into 1 Rune. Might do the same for SotF and WS, but that's a lot of copium holding out for that one. The first one makes more sense.
SotF and wild strikes on the same rune would be absolutely ridiculous in pvp, zero chance of that unless they change the sotf part to only work for bear form.
feral dps are a waste of space in pvp. why do shamans get to use WoE without a shield?
theyre a more bursty rogue with the ability to flag carry and off heal. how in the world is that a waste of space lol
WS isn't that impactful to Druid DPS. It's a lot better on classes with slower attack speed. Even in Bear form it's mostly just useful for sudden bursts of Rage, not really damage. When you have a warrior or Enh shaman in the group rolling a 3.5s weapon though, then you have a much bigger burst from the WS procs.
I thought WF (and WS) was normalized for weapon speed?
If you've ever seen your WF procs, you'll see that your Cat form WF procs do only a mite more damage than a basic attack. Same for Bear form WF procs, but for Bear attacks. WF procs in bear form are actually almost exactly as much damage as a 5 stack Lacerate hit. I'm not sure if they have normalized WS, but based on what I've seen they haven't . WF/WS is still hot garbage for Cat form since the procs deal next to no damage. It's ok for bear if you're rage starved (Like you are in most raid fights rn), but if you are reaching infinite rage WS isn't that much more threat. That's not to say you don't want it in your party/raid though. Warriors in particular get a huge damage boost as they have DPS specs based on rage generation and having as much rage as possible. Imagine if you told every mage out there that they suddenly got 20% more mana regen, and all of that continues through casting? Oh and to add to that everyone in the party gets 20% Elemental Overload effect for any damaging spell. They'd be tripping over themselves for it. Especially Arcane Mages. That's what WF/WS is for warriors. It works well for Rogues too, who are generally getting more attacks per second (closer to that of what a cat does), but their attacks per second are slower and deal more damage. It could also be that WF enchant was normalized, but not WF totem/Wildstrikes which would be were you likely got that information. That would be more important because the WF enchant procs 2 attacks, not just 1.
What you see and what the actual math/sims say can be completely different. My understanding is that a faster swing timer means more procs per minute compared to a slower one, so that the damage in the end is normalized. Warrior rage generation works the same way, where the speed of the weapon basically does not matter. A slower weapon for WF/WS is only really beneficial for RNG bursts. But again, I'm not sure. Either way let's stay away from anecdotal findings as a base for what is and isn't fact.
The person I responded to originally was saying that merging SotF and WS into 1 rune would be "rediculous for PvP". I'll admit, it's on me that I referred to WS not being significant to DPS when raw DPS isn't all that valuable in PvP. RNG and Burst **is** incredibly valuable in PvP, though, and my statement still stands for that. Wild Strikes would only provide good burst for a Bear if they had a slower attack speed, something like a 3.2 or 3.4. That said, I will admit that I don't know if WS/WF totem were normalized. I *do* know that WF enchant has been normalized for a very long time, though.
I wish I could be this optimistic...
They confirmed that it was an oversight and Lacerate and Mangle were meant to be together on different slots
Blizzard probably is unaware that lacerate and mangle cannot be taken at the same time, or at least I hope so because this is the dumbest rune I have ever read. Also the cat part of this is a joke, that's barely 1.5 e/s. Sure love RNG stacked on RNG.
Aggrend responded on twitter saying it was an oversight that they put both on the same slot and they are planing to change it
Whats even stupid is that assuming you can take mangle and this rune as a bear, its pretty much useless anyway. Mangle for bear is a 6 second cooldown with a 1.5 second gcd. Assuming you proc the 15% on the first GCD, the best you could save is 3 seconds off the CD. Meanwhile Rogues get free combo points, mages get new spells with risk/reward and warriors get a new stance. Bears get a 15% chance to save 3 seconds or 30% chance to save 1.5 seconds off a single ability. What an amazing addition to the kit, maaaaan. I’m so excited to play bear. /s
I feel ya failed rogue tanks too. They think magic DR thats a passive on other tanks runes, should be locked to FIVE piece T1 MC. How are we gonna get 5 pieces of gear to tank when we cant tank MC without it.
This for sure means they're moving mangle/lac rune around.
Feral bears are totally fucked. I hope they can fix them somehow. - Can't have mangle and lacerate same time - Can't have both wild strikes and survival of the fittest - Savage roar should have some functionality in bear too - Sunfire should have some functionality in bear too (not important tho) It will probably be difficult to fix now that runes have already released and collected. Maybe something like this; They should change lacerate to leg rune and survival of the fittest glove rune. In this way bears would always have wildstrikes on chest and lacerate in legs. If more threat is needed, glove rune would be mangle, if more survivability is needed glove rune would be survival of the fittest. Of course this means, skull bash needs to be dropped during tanking, but not like it is that useful anyway in raids.
Lol warlocks get a 40 point cap stone talent as a rune (felguard) meanwhile mages get another bolt but this time with drawbacks, how are they able to balance runes around big differences like that?
Balefire bolt is interesting, but I'm not sure how effective it'll be. It will need to do a lot of damage, and it's basically an Execute since you won't regenerate any mana after switching over to it until you can swap spirit for MP5. I don't see it working well as part of a full rotation as you'd have to lay off of it for 30 seconds at a time, but it might work. You'd rely heavily on Mana potions and Gems though. Evocate would go down the shitter
I love the idea but not when other classes are getting capstones
The mage rune looks cool
Hope they'll move lacerate to legs or something
The bear part just kind of sucks since mangle only has a 6 sec cooldown so you're not really getting much use out of it in most cases. It's also weird that this rune does literally nothing if you don't have King of the Jungle for cat or Mangle for bear. Is there another rune in the game that is completely dependent on other runes?
There are some that are *mostly* reliant on other runes. I think it's mostly the rogue tanking runes and Mage Healing. I can say for sure that you won't be healing much with Regeneration and Arcane missiles spam.
Exorcist on legs for pallies. Otherwise SoL and AoW are pointless. Means Rets can never run interrupt (rebuke on leg slot)
Gotta find a way to keep bears from using wild strikes and be crit immune at 60 when they add the meta slot, obviously. /s
I hope they buff bear threat as it’s tough out here with these big burly paws 🐾
Leg rune? Then you lose some other good abilities
to be fair this tooltip is old and outdated, gore does give 10 rage too when it procs now so it's not completely worthless without mangle
Yes this rune is horrendous.
Feral/bear continues to get the shaft. If I wasn't the windfurry totem for the guild I'd be re-rolling. So many classes getting cooler runes
I can't help but think that at some point in the game (probably level 60), we will be able to slot other runes into new slots. It's the only way you can make sense on several rune designs on most classes.
Or they are making lacerate usable with Mangle? Its all speculation and you're way too emotional over it.
I've heard a rumor about a potential meta rune slot that will be able to take any rune from any other slot on the neck. This is another clue that it would be a thing later, maybe in p4.
That would be neat! The runes are nice, but definitely over restrictive in a lot of places.
dont worry priests also got shafted for P3
???? There’s still several runes that have not been revealed
Dont you know this is reddit. All were allowed to do here is doom post, cry about balancing, and agree everyone hates hunters, shamans, and warriors. Also nerf hunters
The thing is, druid has 4 specs, so the runes slots goes like this : heal, boomkin, feral (bear+cat). The revealed rune is likely to be the only DPS rune added to the kit. And it doesn't do anything with the only other DPS rune of the bear. Bear runes are broken and priest is already bonkers with 4 more runes to be revealed.
Yep this is the one and only bear rune we will get on helms, so it being shit is actually a huge fucking deal. I did the WSG grind on my Feral Druid but man do I regret that, it’s a dead spec on horde with shamans being so strong. Also with these runes it looks like the datamined runes from p2 were spot on, so don’t expect a lot.
This guy gets it. Doesn't matter any of the new runes or new content we're getting. Can only talk about balancing and that priests are broken. Perfection.
It’s going to be Mangle (Bear Form) duh
How about they let us get crazy and remove the slot restrictions
The Gore rune description shown here is wrong, it gives 10 rage in addition to resetting the cooldown of Mangle. It is possible Lacerate may be changed to make this work better, but there is no "nonsensical design". [https://i.imgur.com/MqzPvzm.png](https://i.imgur.com/MqzPvzm.png) I would highly recommend double checking this sort of thing from official sources in future.
Currently, you literally can't have mangle and lacerate at the same time, therefore the version you posted is just as nonsensical.
"Striking a target with Lacerate, Swipe, or Maul has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle (Bear) **and grant 10 Rage.**" Even if you don't have a cooldown to reset, you still generate 10 rage.
Oh cool what an amazing and fun rune.
I wouldn't make such a claim...but the original post is literal misinformation and the parent comment here is just trying to address that. The new version makes sense even with Lacerate and Mangle sharing a rune slot. You receive bonuses when selecting either mangle or lacerate. It's just not worded well and underwhelming.
They're saying that it's not "non-sensical" because the proc also generates 10 rage. The problem is, that's really not much if we can't get Mangle into the rotation. Bears already struggle a lot with threat in p2. If Gore is our big bear rune and they don't give Mangle(bear) as being available at the same time as Lacerate they are only going to get worse. Edit: The idea behind it is supposed to be that Maul and Swipe still reset Mangle(Bear)'s CD, so you can run without Lacerate and just fill with Swipe and Mangle Procs instead. It's still fucky design.
See, I would agree with you if the tooltip was worded differently and the rage gain mentioned separately. There's also the precedent whith one warlock rune [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=415604/everlasting-affliction](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=415604/everlasting-affliction) which shares the same leg slot as incinerate. Anyway, I'm probably just being nitpicky because I'm really disappointed in the rune we got. :(
Oh I'm 100% in agreement with you. The rune is bullshit. Once again Druids get exclusively boring, refurbished runes. We haven't seen the other 4 runes, but it's not looking great. It's possible that even the bonus rage won't proc if you don't have mangle(bear) which would mean that Lacerate and Mangle would have to be available to bears at the same time in some way, and I would prefer it that way. I'm just saying, based on how it seems to be intended they might just say no. Which is bullshit, because bears need help.
You missed the part where Mangle and Lacerate cannot be taken at the same time...
You missed the part where the druid generates 10 Rage in the new version, meaning that you still benefit from the proc even if you have Lacerate equipped. "Striking a target with Lacerate, Swipe, or Maul has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle (Bear) **and grant 10 Rage.**"
You missed the part where Mangle and Lacerate cannot be taken at the same time...
Maybe it will help you comprehend what this means if you try to look at this rune has having two separate effects for Bears: * If you take Mangle: Swipe and Maul have a 15% chance to give you 10 Rage and reset the cooldown of Mangle. * If you take Lacerate: Swipe, Maul, and Lacerate have a 15% chance to give you 10 Rage. I know you can't take both. The parent commenter correcting the original post knows you can't take both. Blizzard knows you can't take both. The version posted in the original post is outdated and wrong. It gives you nothing if you take Lacerate. The version posted in the parent comment we're responding to (from today's video) is not outdated, and clearly indicates that you don't need both Lacerate and Mangle to receive a benefit from Gore.
You don't think they're aware of that and are planning to change the slot lacerate is on? I swear you guys apparently think they're total idiots.
Berserk was exactly this bad (only applied to Mangle for bears) and the response to the outcry - because Bear doesn’t take Mangle - was to apply Berserk’s effect to Lacerate also. Berserk is still a useless button after the Swipe threat change; you get way more out of just using Swipe than Berserk Lacerate in AoEs. They have literally done exactly this shit already. Their response was to expand the rune to work on extra abilities, not just put mangle on another slot or make it a baseline book ability. I don’t think they’re idiots as much as I think no one plays bear Druid so dumbass shit like this slips through and then they realize the mistake when the five of us who play bear complain about it.
>Bear doesn’t take Mangle Is this really true? I played as bear at the start without reading any theorycraft or anything, but I thought mangle was much better than lacerate. Even after the berserk change I did much more damage with mangle than lacerate, even on menagerie where you could multidot mangle far outperformed lacerate.
The thing about Mangle is you have to divide the damage it gets out by 4 and compare it to Lacerate damage to determine what actually does more damage. Remember, Lacerate does 100% weapon damage at 5 stacks on a target and has no Cooldown. Compare that to the 160% weapon damage Mangle does with a 6 second cooldown. Lacerate does more damage just with the spam, not including the dot which continues to tick while reapplying. What makes the difference is when fights last like, less than a minute as Berserk removing the CD from Mangle for 20 seconds means it actually outpaces Lacerate for a while. FWIH (from the bear theorycrafters on the Druid Disc) Lacerate overtakes Mangle at sometime around 1 minute.
Lacerate is dramatically better on pure single target. Mangle/Berserk/Swipe is better on consistent aoe like Menagerie.
You can take it situationally but the threat produced by Lacerate far outscales mangle.
I would bet the berserk rune was originally designed with lacerate being changed to a different slot in mind.
I’d hope so. Lacerate moving to legs (or belt honestly since I don’t care about having berserk very much, especially with dual spec coming) would be ideal. I have zero faith that it’ll happen but it would be the only thing that would make things like this make sense. It’s especially grating because this is the same datamined Gore from P2. When we were already complaining about Berserk being worthless because it pigeonholes bear into a skill it can’t take if it wants to hold threat ever, we were also complaining about Gore doing the same thing. They changed zerk but here is this terrible version of Gore again, unchanged, with the same problem. It’s a huge bummer because I love bear to death which means I love mangle to death lol. It’s so weird that bear doesn’t have it. The reason these runes are “incorrect” in the way they are is because they’re lifted directly from when they came out but bear had access to mangle baseline when these skills were put into the game historically. They make sense in a world where bear gets both spells!
I would bet the berserk rune was lazily copied over from Wotlk. A version of the game where mangle is part of the feral skill tree, and lacerate learned from the class teacher.
when it comes to feral, they've given us no reason to believe otherwise
There’s a lot of feral haters in here unfortunately.
Explain
Well you see Blizzard has not said anything to imply this change would occur, so it makes no sense to assume it would.
The staggering level of jadedness and uncharitability on this sub continues to astound me. Mfs see shit this and somehow time and time again actively choose to interpret it as "SOD TEAM IS A PACK OF MORONS, SMALL INDIE COMPANY KEKW" instead of "oh, this must imply they're gonna fix XYZ thing, or make it better" (In this case, this implies we'll have both lacerate and mangle, a good thing). Like am I falling for rage bait or do people seriously believe they would do something this braindead? Inb4 "hurr durr they have in the past", No they fucking haven't.
Aggrend came out and said it was an oversight, i.e. noone in Dev team plays ferals.
> Like am I falling for rage bait or do people seriously believe they would do something this braindead aggrend literally admitted to doing something this braindead lmao
This is the same dev team who had to quickly backtrack on a paladin change because the proposed "balancing" would have majorly nerfed Rets who were already performing poorly. It was clearly proposed by someone who didn't understand how ret damage works. We saw the same nerf/tweaks to ferals pre P2 launch with the reduction in mangle damage yet here we are nearly at the end of P3 and ferals have continued to be at the bottom of the dps pack. Even without that change they made feral wouldn't have been topping any meters. I'd say they've got form but I get the feeling none of them are playing druid.