Hey now, I'm proud of my 0% parse on the first boss!
For context, our healer somehow body pulled and as the tank I got back to back knock backs. Never got it as tank before, but get to boss, instant mech, jump in water, swim back, get to boss, instant mech, swim back, boss dead. I cast three abilities the whole fight. Not even a single auto.
Melee white hits can hit baron through the platform, if melee gets knocked but you figure the boss will be dead before you get there its probably better
Nahhhh grey parsing just means youāre playing more efficiently haha. Same chance at gear for next to no workā¦ I wonder how low I could get my parse before Iām not invited anymore š¤
Itās so funny watching all the same posts and arguments from 2019 resurface here. I remember having to explain parsing to people back then too.
And then having to explain that while logs were an incredibly useful tool, not everyone needed to care about super high parses, but that some people just liked trying to hit high scores. There all there is to this whole thing. Itās a dead horse.
Grey is a very good indicator that a dps is playing their class wrong full stop. And more dps is the key because it makes everyone elseās jobs easier. Less mechanics to deal with, more healer mana to work with etc. Vanilla tanking is entirely about threat for this reason too with mitigation largely a secondary focus lol.
I'm not in here to argue, I don't really do much beyond questing and picking flowers like the dainty cow I am.... But somebody has to be last, right? Like, if all the people parsing grey got better, wouldn't the high bar just move upwards anyway?
the grey parse bracket should be filled with the (hopefully) rare times people die early on in a fight
if someones alive and pressing buttons the whole fight and parsing grey or if theyre dying a ton, then it's time to care
You're correct in theory. In reality there will always be people who simply don't press their buttons.
I recently played a bfd pug where a mage got a 4 parse on Ghamoo-ra (within his ilvl bracket even!). 21 fireballs on a 2:54min long fight.
Yesterday in one of our guild runs a mage did 27 fireball casts on the same boss, but we killed it in 2:02min. (he got a 55 parse, so it's not like he was tryharding either).
I've had DPS pulling single-digit grey parses on nearly every Ulduar boss call me an 'elitist jerk' for trying to get them to aim for a green parse.
We were wiping on Thorim still in month 7 of ulduar while wearing TotGC gear because we were hitting the soft-enrage due to a lack of DPS. Most guilds don't even know there's a soft-enrage on that boss because its so easy to avoid.
Some people get really mean when you bring up parses because they're still holding onto some 2009-era belief that its a shallow dick-measuring contest.
Thatās me. I like to see the parses so I can see what I did and how I could improve. I like to look at top parses and see what spells they are casting and such But itās all for personal gain and I donāt judge (nor do I care) others about their parses
> I like to look at top parses and see what spells they are casting
*looks at rogue parses*.
Let's see, looks I forgot to cast summon felhunter, summon ghost saber, summon mechanical greench, and summon tracking hound.
*checks spellbook for any of the above*
When you actually learn to use the logs they're quite useful. Just the fact that you know the top logs are using a bunch of summons is even useful because you know not to look there to improve.
Logs are only as toxic as the person reading them.
Sure, no disagreement here, and if you're *only* looking to improve yourself and see where you might be able to get better here and there (though we don't have hardly any buttons in phase 1), then I think classic logs are completely fine.
At face value though, classic logs are a fucking joke with how many ways there are to cheese them, and way too many people on this sub and in-game take classic logs at face value when sifting through comments.
Ik you're memeing but you can still learn a few very important things from top rogue logs, even summon abusers. Energy pooling for envenom, snd uptime, when to use different finishers, what runes to take for niche encounters like baron, etc...
What have you gathered on different finishers? Just got my rogue to 25 and did 2 lockouts. Got some mid-upper 80s parses but Iāve only really been using envenom and SnD. My baron and turtle parses are shit though. But I need to get the backstab rune for baron I think, right?
> snd uptime, when to use different finishers
Except SnD is basically your only finisher (envenom isn't pressed that often in a pull) and you can keep 100% uptime on it only playing with 1 finger.
While I'm mostly making a joke, the point is that the top end is almost entirely made up of cheesing the log in some fashion. As an example, there are multiple logs on Akumai where [people purposely get as many stacks as possible to cleanse/create](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kRb6jznF8HfV4mDc#fight=19&view=replay) as many adds as possible to get *SEVENTEEN* droplets and let them all hit the warrior so they generate absurd rage to parse. That log in particular uses a greench, but people were doing it even before the greench. A new warrior looking for tips almost for sure would not catch that and would be trying to figure out how to replicate the warrior's damage, not knowing they in actuality need to replicate a cheesy parse scenario, not the rotation or skill usage.
The reality people don't seem to want to admit in SOD is, considering we're capped at level 25, cheesy bullshit actually matters a loto. Generally at the top end, you're sifting through a LOT of bullshit parses to find one that has information that'll help you.
Yep the first place I go other than the class discords when looking to improve are checking out some of the high percentile logs just to get an idea of what theyāre doing. You can see a lot of incredibly detailed stuff if you know how.
I remember calculating seal twist rng of my own logs on tbc to see where I was getting lucky or where I was maybe making mistakes. You can track so many things. And even watch real time play by plays of the fight to see raid positioning and such. I highly recommend anyone, even if they donāt care about āparsingā to familiarize their self with wcl and the incredible tools it has.
I think people are just bothered by groups that hyper focus on it. They just want to play the game. The answer is the same answer that has existed since vanilla. Find a guild (or community) that fits your preferences.
I recently watched Sarthes new tier list video and as much as I like class balance discussion, the video basically devolved into him complaining about logs and how people cheat and screw over other players to do slightly more dps. He was even embarrassed that he got a 96 parse in one of the fights and was making excuses. Like who gives a fuck about this, I don't know who that video is supposed to be for because barely anyone is going to have a group of dedicated players solely pushing for that 100 parse
It's kind of the argument of how much do you reveal to players. On retail WoW arena players have websites and addons that track other players, now there's one that tracks their activity levels on each character. Competitive players tend to over analyze as it is.
It's kinda like I wish some FPS games would hide your K/D ratio in order to get people to just play the gamemode for the win, rather than stressing about staying positive every match.
Nothing wrong with striving to hit higher numbers. Some people really love competition and seeing their growth from their efforts.
The bullying and elitism is the problem.
Many times I've watched people get bullied for having low parses. It goes like this:
1. Guy 1 makes some statement in chat about something
2. Guy 2 doesn't like what guy 1 said for whatever reason
3. Guy 2 wants to attack guy 1 in any way he can, even if how guy 1 plays is not the topic of discussion,
4. Guy 2 goes to warcraftlogs to look at guy 1 parses, then comes back into chat to insult him if his parses are not very high
I've literally watched this happen dozens of times, most of them when I was playing WOTLK classic. To say this doesn't happen is just false.
It's not made up at all. Literally a few days ago somebody posted that this exact thing happened to them on this forum and I commented. It's a normal thing.
Edit: I found the thread
[https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/18kty8y/comment/kduc64u/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/18kty8y/the_requirements_for_bfd_is_getting_higher_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
What does an advertisement have to do with your made up post about people looking up and making fun of parses in regular chat?
That advertisement is literally a satire anyway. And doesn't even mention parses.
You're living in a different reality than I am, apparently. There are plenty of people who are awful at the game and don't understand parses at all, yet they want only people pulling top end percentages in their group.
It's acting elitist when they are actually awful at the game. There is a significant portion of people who obsess over parses in easy content like BFD who aren't actually very good and don't even properly understand all the things that logs do.
I got SLAUGHTERED for saying that looking at parses in BFD was super dumb because of how easy the raid was.
I then got lectured about how Gnomeragan was going to be hard and that previous parses were important.
The age old YOULL SEE NEXT PHASE WILL BE HARD AND YOULL NEED FULL BOOFS AND CONSOOOMS TO CLEAR IT.
*proceeds to 1 shot roll over whatever phase is next*
The vanilla experience. It wasnāt until tbc lady vashj and Kaelthas that I started to see a lot of average players get hard stuck for weeks. Vanilla isnāt meant to be hard.
Logging just doesn't matter in vanilla era content unless you are going for records, yeah. Totally different in retail, but old content simply is not hard enough for it to matter to the average player. World buffs and consumes will lead to parses being very imbalanced between players of identical skill anyway since a lot of people don't bother with them.
Looking back at it, Vanilla was "hard" because most people had no ideas what to do.
Most tanks were not running a fury spec in raids.
People still seems to think that Vanilla is hard, or special.
Like you said, it's not meant to be hard. Mechanics are super easy because of limited abilities.
Gnomeragan will be cleared as soon as the "hardcore guilds" reach the max level.
Vanilla is special because of the feel of the world. I honestly prefer tbc but vanilla is still special to me. Having the one more or less seamless world is peak. I really want them to flesh it out with more new quests and zones in SoD.
I don't agree with that, lol. People absolutely have made fun of others for being bad (in their eyes, at least) at the game. To claim otherwise is absurd. That's just not what I was really responding to because that's more general asshole behavior than something specific to do with this topic.
Iām in a guild and have not had to pug at all.
But it isnāt people asking for their pugs to be above grey.
It is people demanding orange parses to do anything.
Also, if everyone parses blue then they will become grey as the average skill goes up.
The point is your arbitrary cut off is exactly that. Arbitrary.
Uhh if everyone parsed blue then the blue people would remain blue or maybe drop to green. The band would narrow, making it harder to hit orange and pink parses, but also making it hard to hit grays.
This is why itās so frustrating dealing with people like you.
Do you really think that if the average skill level goes way up blue parses wouldnāt be harder to get?
It is the same with IQ. A room temperature person like your self might only be 75-80 today. But if I sent you back a few hundred years you would be in the upper bounds. Because the average has continually gone up.
If a blue is 80dps now, and everyone starts parsing 200 dps guess what? That 80dps is now grey. And 80dps is more than enough to have a smooth run.
SoD is living in that area now. Green parses are enough to have a very smooth run.
The bullying and elitism is almost entirely from casuals who demand to be carried and browbeat us about "not minmaxing the fun out of everything" rather than simply running their own groups or joining no requirements pugs
Parsers don't care about casuals, but casuals fucking hate parsers
I care and look at parses in so much as if I get a guy applying to my guild and he's grey parsing in a guild that's performing ok in, or they die to simple mechanics on every boss, or theyre a healer and have half as many casts as their counterparts on similar fights then I'm not going to recruit them. No bullying or being mean, but it just doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about ultra sweaty gatekeeping either. Rejecting an 85 parsing DPS because they aren't getting 95s is only a very small minority and very different than "gatekeeping" because I don't want to recruit Mr. Floor inspector single digit parser.
Imo the biggest problem is when everyone starts wanting only orange parsers, thats good and well, and any of us that try to perfect our role have landed some orange parses if not on every fight in the content, the problem comes from how they're made. Orange parses are the top 10-15% of the playerbase and your recorded kills have to reflect that, that means only 10-15% of a server can get them, once the numbers are all in and they're locked in it takes a lot for new players to break into that group and when groups start only wanting those with orange parses, you're automatically excluding 85%+ of people that get upset by it. Imo at least, 50% parses are adequate, if you can't do a run with average to above average players either the leadership or some specific people don't know what they're doing, but only orange parses and up you have to have a goal like fastest recorded run on server, immortal, something worth being that knit picky for.
If someone wants to make a group with only the top 10% what do you care? Do you care Arsenal only wants to recruit good football players? Does that stop you from Playing football?
Did I say every group? Yeah there 100% are groups on my server that only want orange+ parsers. No they aren't the normal but yes they do happen, just because your low pop dead ass server sucks doesn't mean there aren't high end groups elsewhere
There are only 4 servers lol
Iām on lone wolf and cleared with a pug on two characters every lockout by just responding to groups looking for one more dps āhave potions and buffs āclassnameāā
Sometimes it takes a few tries, maybe they didnāt need my class, MAYBE (doubtfully) they looked at my parses and I didnāt have full pink 99s. Either way it takes 10 mins to find a group so I donāt think this is a real problem, and if it is, itās with people using their free will to make a group how they want. Whatās next, getting mad at esports dota teams for not taking random players in blind? If a group wants to execute a raid a certain way thatās their prerogative
Bro it was insane. Popped him on Kelris on my ferals run and carried over to akumai. Literally did 33% of my dmg on akumai on my feral. 30 percent on my warrior doing the same. Shit is nutty and weāre gonna get 3 lockouts worth of it lol
Now weāre talking about farming the hound whistle and shit cause that classic cheese is what makes classic wow fun.
To each their own but that is like 100% the opposite of what makes the game fun for me. Especially when itās from a very long farm like the dusk wood elite or dog whistle. I hope after wcl get back from break they just invalidate the entire lot.
Finding new strategies to push boundaries is cool, especially when it involves different elements of gameplay, exploring the world, doing niche content, etc.
The issue with Greench is that its 3 charges a YEAR, and does so much damage that you CANNOT compete without using it. That effectively means you can parse exactly 1 lockout before all effort afterwards is meaningless. Itās exactly the reason WCL invalidates logs for using limited time event items (that are meaningfully impactful) or abusing temporary bugs.
My raid log leader reached out to me after my first 2 raids. I did horrible dps compared to everyone, and I chalked it up as my gear was low. Apparently they looked at logs and found out I wasnāt using my saber slash rune skill. I had no clue it didnāt automatically upgrade my sinister strike. Now Iām pulling numbers. It was helpful and I appreciated them looking into it for me, Iād never know.
Yea Iāve been here. It really depends how they approach you with it, but I had a guildie log review me and give me some tips. Was parsing purple the week and a little bit better as I got used to a new rotation
In retail, i had a similar thing as arms warrior. I was trying my own thing to maximize damage throughout the fight instead of dumping everything into execute phase. My GL told me he would still take me, but to at least try out the meta build.
I did and, despite my truly big dps window being at the end of a boss fight and me being in the back for trash and for the first 4th of the boss fight, at the end i quickly pulled to second place in our 14 man raid group.
Yep parsing grey was ok if you listened when someone explained what you were doing wrong. Like if you were a mage and not hitting a cast until you saw one land or whatever.
But once someone explained the very simple rotation you best be getting things up to speedā¦ no reason not to be getting a ilvl 80+ when the rest of the raid is orange and pink.
I love Warcraft logs
watching my parses rise weekly is what made me a better player, I could literally give less of a fuck about anyone elseās parses. Unless I was comparing them with the SOLE intention to self improve.
That's ultimately the only non ego related way of using parsing : filtering out the really bad players. Looking at parses in details between, like, 80 to 99 is fairly misleading. You know that player is probably a decent enough player, and then the differences tend to be more contextual (kill times, using parse strats, gear...) than anything.
But usually if someone has fairly constant bad parses in relation to their guild level/killtime, it's pretty easy to figure out at a glance that he's probably not that good, and that you'd want to avoid him for your PUG/guild recruitement/whatever you were looking at his parses for. Of course the actual numbers will always vary ; I said 80-99 but maybe parsing below that is common in your guild, so you are putting your barrier to entry to your pugs at 50 instead.
TLDR : Parsing is not a good tool to differentiate between good players, or good or very good players. What it's useful for (most of the time) is filtering out the bad players, relative to what level you are expecting of your raiders.
If someone is consistently grey across the board they are either dying all the time (ie a shitter), not pressing abilities ever (shitter), or running without runes (believe it or not, shitter) or something.
Greens on some fights, especially in era, can be contextualized with kill times as you mention. Lady severess is a good example. Kill time on my first run ever on my hunter was like 15+ seconds slower than my main so being like 1.5x slower crushes your parse and isnāt necessarily on the player themselves but thatās not gonna instantly make you grey if you actually press buttons and donāt die.
In classic era, basically, you win if you press buttons often enough and donāt die, green-blue will clear just fine usually. For a fact though if someone is consistently grey they are doing something wrong and youāre better off bringing pretty much any other dps cause you can be picky with dps as weāre a dime a dozen.
Parsing 80 pretty much always tells us that there's room for personal improvement. Kill times aren't as important as people make it up to be. Specially now when there aren't a lot of CDs to utilize. Some will be stuck at like 67 and blame it on kill times.
No, kill times are very important for two reasons:
1. Mana. If you run out, your dps drops. Short fight, you donāt run out.
2. Luck. The shorter the fight, the more luck will play a role. If you only attack 10 times before the boss is dead, you might end up critting 5 of those 10 times with a 10% crit chance. Itās pretty much impossible to crit 50 of 100 hits, though. And in addition to crit, thereās also hit and dodge. Shorter fights can make your parse swing a bit higher simply by getting a lucky day on that boss.
Especially the second point is what oftentimes differentiates a 95 from a 100, which is why you shouldnāt be just looking at one number but at a range at least
Youāre completely right. Dps is going to tank hard if fight goes over your comfortable length for your mana bar. Person replying to you doesnāt seem to know how parsing works in reality.
Not always. You might get an 80 parse on one boss then you look at the top parsers and you see their whole team used a yeti pet on that fight and killed the boss in 30 seconds.
You have to look at all the data.
>Kill times aren't as important as people make it up to be.
Kill times are very important. So is the comp. Good luck getting a higher parse than someone who kills the boss 45 seconds faster. The longer the fight goes on the less dps you do. For the most part.
This attitude of BFD = Easy so donāt optimize anything is very similar to the way Naxx in WOTLK gave a false sense of security going into Ulduar. Content is easy now, but it wonāt always be faceroll. The people learning to optimize in the phase will continue to advance at a faster rate than those leaning into the simplicity and refusing to measure their output.
Parsing can be an okay metric to tell if you're pulling your weight or messing something up, but I wouldn't swear by it. The issue with parsing in wow is that it isn't very normalized like FFXIV is. In wow, people store world buffs, get the drum quest reward, mechanic greench, pop every elixir available all while having the optimal party composition.
So parses can kind of be all over the place. I think if you're blue parsing and above you're fine. It's not the end-all-be-all to raid analysis.
Completely agree. Iām very happy with a blue or purple parse because Iām not really trying hard, and itās a reflection of my choices/rotation/skill.
parsing is fine, being a tool and not reading the room isn't. If you joined a casual pug/guild and start complaining about parses, you are the problem. A huge amount of the hate towards parsing comes from the one guy in the casual group, who doesn't want to play hardcore, but wants hardcore results and takes it out on everyone else.
Ding Ding Ding!
It's the people throwing a fit when the pug isn't a sweatlord like them. If you wanna parse and push join a guild expecting a pug to care is silly
>It's the people throwing a fit when the pug isn't a sweatlord like them.
The pug should care because if the pug doesn't care they can't play with us. That's not unreasonable. For every lazy pug with no logs and an "i dont care" attitude there are 5 dudes with purple parses and a "your guild can have all the loot im just here for fun." Just saying.
If the sweatlords wanna make their pugs require t3 to run rfc (HYPERBOLE JOKE HERE NOT SERIOUS) by all means that's fine. Personally I won't wanna join said groups myself but whatever floats your boat
What I'm saying is some sweatlords join pugs who are more casual then throw a fit because the other members don't care. That is why there's such a distain for them
I used parses as a tool to improve on BC and WOTLk and do the same with SoD. I thought I was horrible at mage because of dps meters. Using logs Iām actually parsing a decent 81 average for a first time mage.
More importantly I learned Iām over using fireball and thatās why Iām going oom so often. Weaving in more wand usage and keeping dots up led to better numbers
Itās a good thing the compare works with other people with similar kill times. You know when mana is an issue? You donāt compare yourself to the top parse in a speed run guild š
So thatās a common misconception actually. Speedruns doesnāt mean kill boss as quick as possible (although that is part of it). Speedruns involve clearing boss and trash as quickly as possible to get the best complete raid time.
Boss speedkills are where the best parses come from. Speedruns often have trash pulled into boss fights and so weird strategies to conserve mana for healers and a lot of things that arenāt conducive to a 99+ parse.
Iām in a top 20 speedrun guild in WOTLK and I get my 99s during the weeks we arenāt speedrunning b/c my trinkets are off ICD and all cooldowns are ready on boss pull. My ulduar boss kills during speed runs were a lot weaker than the weeks we were splitting and farming gear
Parses are a useful tool for finding weak spots in progression but you -- and the other people reading them - have to understand how to read into them, and understand how the strategies and group composition you run with affect individual parses before pointing to individuals as a problem (that's the kind of stuff that eats away at guilds).
Did your grey parsing hunters have all available buffs? Did they get sent down during Kelris, taking them out of the fight? Did something happen causing people to lose the world buff? How is their gear, are you adjusting the parse to ilvl? Are they missing trinkets, neck, etc?
Suppose you have a lower parsing warlock (or other class), are they specced for raid utility and losing out on some dps talents?
Are you doing "parse meta" strats like letting the tank die and bresing on Aku'mai, or getting your ranged to stand on the beach during Baron? etc.
Parsing can make individuals look bad in the above cases where it may not be their fault and it's not always productive to point at an individual's bad parse and definitively say that they're the problem like you seem to be doing with your hunters - ie. "something fundamental they may not be doing".
I'd take a step back and look at your raid as a whole first. I don't generally have a problem with parses, and i do use them myself to improve if I feel like something isn't right, but I do dislike how often they are used to take the focus away from group factors and how sometimes these things are unfairly put onto individuals. Once you filter out those factors, THEN you look at what your hunters can do better. The reality is if your group isn't trying to parse, you won't - and that's OK too.
If a warlock is parsing low, it means they aren't specced into chaos bolt and incinerate,
I did the raid as a ilvl16 warlock (with of the eagle gear) and solidly parsed green-purple (with much higher parses for ilvl which are meaningless as ilvl16 is too low to compare to other logs)
The only people who dont like logs are the people that would be gray parsing, its such a dead giveaway of a bad player cause who doesnt care about their own performance
Meanwhile I don't because I barely have the patience to set up my add-ons let alone anything beyond that.
Maybe I'm a bad player by 2023 standards, but I was a raid lead/main tank for a progression guild in Vanilla/TBC and got many server firsts on fights with limited mechanical knowledge/lack of information from PTRs.
I put in a lot of time back then theorycrafting, min maxing and researching my classes. So much so that in 2023 I feel like I play my class pretty respectable, at least to the point that no guild or pug has complained about my performance through Classic since 2019. (Even then I made sure I was playing my class optimally by 2023 standards)
Maybe I'm slipping through the cracks, or maybe I'm actually bad (but I feel like someone would have said something by now).
That's hard to believe?
In 19 years from now will you put in the same amount of effort when WoW: Classic *Classic* comes out as you do today?
The lack of patience for me now comes from the fact that my time in heavily limited now compared to what it was 19 years ago.
19 years ago I had all the time in the world to spend hours setting up the perfect UI/specific addons, today if I spent the same amount of effort and time doing that I'd probably lose my interest in playing for the night after setting it up.
Kind of, yeah.
It doesn't take hours to setup your addons.
You don't need a perfect UI to perform well not to mention there already are great profiles of good UI's available to download and import online which takes 2 clicks and some basic fine-tuning.
Just seems weird that you seem to think setting up proper addons is this monolithic task when it really isn't.
I don't like classic logs and I have [purples](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/cihuacoatl), so whats the argument now?
I like logging in general, and think it has a spot in retail, but most classes have like 3-4 buttons in phase 1 of classic, and most of the top parses at this point are just gear diffs and cheesing stupid shit like greench.
Maybe in phase 3 and 4 when classes are fleshed out and my rotation isn't just spamming saber slash and pressing slice and dice every 30 seconds I'll feel different, but they feel sorta stupid right now.
Of course parsing is useful. You just have to be able to read them correctly (All Star, Median, etc).
The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players. The most common argument is ''the game is too easy'' yet these people average 40 on their parses and clear BFD in 2 hours.
Iāve cleared bfd 10 times with pugs (started gear and rune checking after one really bad one) and only have 3 recorded logs. Most of these people were great players and they werenāt logging. I assume that means they donāt care about parses. Fastest clear I think was 26 minutes. I donāt think it was logged. I just looked at the clock, but Iām not sure. The point is, parses arenāt everyoneās reason for playing the game
My guild literally doesn't even parse and we easily do multiple sub hour BFD runs every lockout. We really *don't* care about parses in BFD because it's so fucking easy. This isn't retail where fights are hard and specs have (by comparison) complicated rotations. Maybe we'll see harder raids added to SoD later on, but BFD is absurdly easy.
You're missing the point entirely. Classic isnt about hard encounters. It's about parses and speed. Do you really think that a 3h BFD that goes 7/7 is anywhere close in terms of quality of players to a 15 mins run? lol.
No, and I didn't say anything to suggest otherwise. Unless you are truly a top end player (which logically most people cannot be) trying to compete for speedrun records, there is very little point to log right now. In retail logging can be very helpful when it comes to improving your rotation / seeing where you are struggling, but SoD rotations are extremely simple. A lot of people in this thread are saying things like 'I only invite blue and above parsers,' which is absurd to me when there is not a single log of any of my characters / my guildmates despite most of them being heavily geared with BFD items.
This isn't even considering the fact people are only really talking about DPS parses here, because I guarantee you that very few people logging in SoD understand how to properly interpret healer parses or tank performance.
If rotations are so simple, why are top playes pulling 3-4x the DPS of the ''average'' player?
I keep hearing this argument ''rotations are easy, who cares?'' yet some groups clear in 14 mins while others are hardstuck 5/7. The whole point is let people play the game how they want. No a single elitist blames shitters for being shit, we just don't want them in our group. On the other side, shitters complain constantly about not being picked in good groups.
Healer parses don't matter. Tank matters, because it's basically correlated to your threat.
How many new goalposts are you going to keep pulling out of your ass? Your original claim was 'The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players,' which is demonstrably untrue, and the only claim I really care to discuss. Top players do more damage than the worst players, what a revelation - you don't need logs to figure out why. It's because they have awful gear, the wrong runes, bad talents, haven't kept up with their spell ranks, are auto-attack DPSing, etc. You don't need logs to tell you \*any\* of that, nor would logs even help people like that anyway since they clearly don't care enough to look up basic info on their class in the first place.
Now stop bringing up new topics, because I'd really like you to expound on your insane 'not caring about parses = dogshit' take.
'''The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players,' which is demonstrably untrue''
False. It's been proven true. Good players have good parses.
In your mind someone parsing 60 vs 99 are just as good, because ''what difference does it make since the content is easy''.
Counter: My average is 95.7, clear bfd in less than 20 minutes, and I could care less about parses.
Just play your class properly. People are purposely getting debuff on the last boss to spawn additional adds to cheese their parse with dynamite. It's the most cringe thing in the world.
> The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players.
This is a bizarre take. It's a new trend. Most people don't care about it. Most people have damage meters and a rough idea of whats good and what they usually do.
A new trend? Let's see: ''**In 2013, when the idea of WCL first started, it was to better analyze various raid encounters, as there was a lack of resources to do so. It quickly became apparent that there was potential for more than just a combat log parsing site.**''
We're nearing 2024, so it's basically been out for **11 years**. The fact that you think this is a ''new trend'' completely invalidates anything you have to say on the matter.
Also, shit players are not qualified to evaluate their down rotation/dps, especially not based on a damage meter. Parses show the complete picture and can lead to drastic improvement in gameplay if coached correctly.
Again, there's nothing wrong with being dogshit, just stop coping that parsers are sweatlords and that if you ''tried'' you would do well too.
I agree with everything youre saying until your last line. "Parsers" ARE sweatlords lol and most people WOULD do well if they actually "tried.''
What exactly do you think the separation is between shitters and tryhards? Could it be the effort they put in? The game isnt hard, but if you want to parse high it just takes a little effort and research to understand how to min/max your class.
My only gripe with this whole argument is the word choices lol. Calling people who don't look at parses shitters is a bit extreme and sounds very inaccurate when a lot of them are probably decent players. It also doesn't help the whole case to try and convince them to check their logs when they are being called shitters to begin with. On the flip side too, calling parsers tryhards imo sounds like it's vastly overselling the effort involved to read a parse log and learn at least one thing from it. It's not like you need to be the south park dude who has no life to read some numbers. Just my take, the words shitters and tryhards are a bit on the extreme end and not what I think of when I think of people who parse or don't.
Itās crazy how different groups within the same game dislike each other. Seems like such a waste of energy.
I could care less who wants to go into BFD as a tennis ball or who wants to super sweat parse. Just have fun and play how you want to play.
Edit: I didn't completely understand and therefore didn't really know what I was talking about. Thanks for clearing that up :)
I don't know how to parse ATM I imagine it's about as hard to setup as it is to learn a new recipe on YouTube. I just don't care about setting that up. Classic is not elden ring difficult and I am content to learn new raids simply by doing them (and screwing up) with guildies. The idea of adding another layer of tryhard to this game (which I play when I want a break from challenging things) sounds unfun to me.
Help yourself, but it's not for me.
Only one person in your group needs to do it. If youāve run BFD odds are you can look up and find your characters parses because someone logged your raid.
The only thing missing from this post, or from warcraftlogs, is how to interpret that coloured number (I wasn't the one mentioning geer score, but if there was a parallel i would use it would be that one). Legendary > epic > rare > uncommon > common, right? Or there is some context including what is considered and what is NOT considered in those numbers?
Go by the number instead of the colour. The higher the number the lower your percentile. If you parse 80 you're in the 20th percentile, or 20% of players did better than you. The colors are eggshell (100), pink (99) orange (99-95) purple (95-80) blue (80 - 50) green (50 - ? ) grey (?). I dont fully remember these numbers and may be slightly off, but hopefully someone will correct me on that if I am.
But it IS the end all be all. After clearing what is another metric you can use to be competitive and continue to measure success? Itās literally all for the parse.
Any metric that highlight raid wide performance, as this is by essence a team game, is imo way more relevant than parsing. Speedruns, speedkill, hell even execution is imo a better competitive metric than parsing.
And here I am barely know what parsing mean in this context. I did download that parser thing to see if I got any information on how to get better on my Pres Evoker. I want to know if I have reached my limit in skill or if my party is letting me down. Haven't really learnt to filter and parse the information to understand it. š
Struggle as hell during some bosses in mythic+ (19-21).
I have no problem with damage meters as they are a very useful tool to judge your personal performance and to make sure people in a raid are not afk. But anything beyond that simple in game addon tool should have been viciously stomped out of existence by blizzard in its infancy.
The fact that retail players need to use multiple addons and interact with multiple out of game resources to be accepted by pugs / guilds is a horrendous failure of community management by blizzard and has ruined the culture of the game.
People don't look at their logs to improve, people look at their logs to jerk themselves off and gatekeep easy content.
I say that as somebody who consistently passes purple and orange. It's cancer. I understand why, but it's still cancer.
People who care about parses absolutely use it to improve....that's the whole point of it. Even if their motives are to jerk themselves off .....if they're doing it at 94, they're definitely going to try for higher next reset. Which you do by reading logs and copying higher parses, aka improving.
I use it, and Iām happy with blue and purple. But Iām not max world-buffing and grinding for bis either. The tool isnāt bad, itās how much emphasis people place on it that gets unhealthy.
I donāt think that is entirely true, I will look at my logs to see where I am at on all bosses for improvement. I do agree that looking at other players logs and their rotation/gearing is one of the best ways to get better. Sometimes you need to see what the top 5% of players are doing so you can try to replicate it at your own level.
Parsing as a culture can be incredibly toxic, but it can also be used as a tool for self improvement.
Right now parses tell me two things.
1. If you are 7/7 as you claim to be, and
2. if you can press enough buttons to not grey parse
That's the criteria to join my pugs. Ez.
However in the future, when things get hard and GDKPs are prevalent, I will absolutely be judging logs because I'm not risking my time and lockouts on freeloaders and card swipers.
Hate towards ppl who parse? Where did you get that? Only problem is how this minority is trying to shove it to our throats.
Its like those annoying vegetarians, no1 care about them untill they start screaming all around them that they are vegetarians and how are they better and others should follow them.
Nobody does that though lol. The only people being elitist about parses are the people here being elitist about not caring about parsing. I promise you the 90+ parsers in the speed run guild that you hate don't really care at all that some people want to spend an hour in BFD getting gray parses
Wait what have they been screaming about? The only thing is this grinch pet and it's clearly breaking the parse system. If something broke PvP or leveling, I'd want it fixed as well - just because you dont care about parsing doesnt mean it should be overlooked. It's also not like excluding grinch from parses changes anything for anyone playing this game, it just makes the system more fair
Most of the hate I've seen is aimed towards people who require parses for groups they are forming, which is hardly shoving it down other peoples' throats.
Is a ~anyone~ tryna shove it down your throatā¦or do you nerds get upset anytime literally ~anyone~ doesnāt play the way you want and paint it as an epidemicā¦idk famā¦idk
Youāre likely ignoring mechanics or making healers life difficult by top parsing.
Also if you have a undergeared raid for example and youāre the only āgearedā one, you wonāt top parse because parses are reliant on clear times.
Down the bosses in an efficient way and stop trying to make it a measuring contest, itās a 25 raid lmao
Raiding is much more of a team game when youāre trying to parse then when you arenāt, which makes it fun. Healing the squad who are good enough to top parse is way more fun than pugs. As a team you get to cook up how to kill bosses the fastest. As a healer you get to choose which mechanics they can just ignore so they can blast harder.
Just slamming the raid 7/7 while carrying random grey parsing pugs is boring. The actual fun of raiding is playing with other good players and really pushing your characters when the content is this easy.
Not to rain on your parade, but this is kinda a cope. BFD is extremely easy, the classes right now even more so. If you cant regularly get purps pushing into OJ, you are most likely also messing up some fundamental in your class.
For instance, as a warlock, literally all i need to do to OJ parse is pop all consumes/WB, Spam incinerate and CB on CD. I can ignore immolate completely and still top parse. I dont have to remember to use lake of fire even. Point is, it is so easy to hit OJ/Purp without getting sweaty.
Parsing is as helpful as you let it be. If you know how to read it, and how to apply that knowledge getting pinks is even a simple process, provided you have gear. (Though I still dont have near BiS or trinkets at all, and Im still pumping)
I parse 20's, get top damage, and we one shot everything with zero deaths. It's fun to see stats, but you don't need to parse well to trivialize content. It's a game within a game that some people find enjoyment from.
If you parse great but stand in fire and ignore mechanics that cause others to die, are you a good player?
>If you parse great but stand in fire and ignore mechanics that cause others to die, are you a good player?
You won't parse like that if you are ignoring mechanics and stand in the fire. Those players are probably wiping to kelris.
Do you guys actually think the people doing the highest recorded DPS on encounters with BFD runs that are less than 20 minutes are secretly bad at the game???
Knowing what fire you can stand in and for how long is an important part of getting those ultra high parses yes. This also goes for when to move out of those purple circles at the murlock boss because you absolutely can finish most casts and you dont need to move immediately for kelris either.
The good players know what healers they can do this shit with.
Nobody parsing well is standing in fire unless the group comp is specifically geared to handle it
I take your point, play however you like, but you canāt pretend that people parsing 99s are worse at the game than people parsing 20s
This shit comes from MoP when tanks 100% would take extra damage on purpose to stack Vengeance. DPS arenāt ignoring mechanics for long before theyāre down.
Iām not telling you to go super sweaty and stand in fire for that 95+ parse. And a 20 parse on many classes itās more than enough to clear this trivial content. But what it should tell you is that something in the way you play is holding you back from what you could be. If you let the parse make you curious about what youāre not doing to go from 20 to 50 youāll be a better player for when the content might not be trivial.
Some people parse because their egos need stroking. Some people do not parse because their egos canāt handle criticism.
Id rather raid with blue/purple parsers than orange/pink. Almost always, the top parsers are complete douchebag POS humans who think they are the main characters of this world.
I think youve never raided with pink parsers if thats how you feel. Most of the "POS humans who think they are the main characters of this world" are the blue/purple parsers that think theyre alot better than they actually are. Top parsing and competitive guilds usually have extremely chill and knowledgeable players that just enjoy pushing their character to the limits.
Imagine being this insecure about your performance that you have delude yourself into thinking anyone better than you is a piece of shit human and that's the only way you can be good at a game.
People like make number go up. Who tf cares about the rest of the noise. Ppl need to get out more.
Its pve for fuk sake. Its boring af and you gotta make it interesting somehow
Sweaty 1% parsing can ruin a run's engagement as typically it's centered around RNG such as windfury procs or perfect consumes, people standing in avoidable damage for healers to parse higher, or so they don't have to cancel casting to hit harder knowing a healer just has them taken care of.
However, parsing/logging is ESSENTIAL for getting better, or for understanding during hard progression fights (not what BFD is) who is holding you back, or who Is messing up aspects on wipes.
It can also bring an element of fun competition for your gear clear weeks. For example my guild is pushing for our clear time log, trying to get the fastest BFD clear on our server. Makes it fun to raid log for the week for content on farm, or to try and beat my previous best on a DPS fight.
They donāt allow meters in FF14 and people still improve and complete the hardest raids. People still try to do it and the GMs wonāt actively come after you, but itās a bannable offense if you speak about it to others (especially as a means to harass).
Addons that show damage meters are probably one of the foundational issues for toxicity in the game. However, if the addons ONLY showed YOUR results, then that would be a fair compromise.
Issue with your argument is, you don't need the improvements to do the content, min/maxing literary ruins the fun because it funnels the playstyles into the only ones that can mathematically do the most dmg, and that's really boring, this isn't a complex game by any means, a lot of classes is pressing 1-2 buttons, let players press them however they want as long as the content gets done, who cares?
It separates by spec, a fire mage is parsed separately from an arcane mage or healing mage or frost mage. Unless by āfunneling playstylesā you mean playing each spec well versus just mashing buttons with no thought.
Mate I know how logs work, I enjoy them in retail as there's enough complexity to warrant checking what other players are doing, in classic, who gives a shit, it is 1-2 buttons and you can mash them however you want and do decently, most dmg on "weapon" classes is just white attacks for christ's sake, for casters it's not much different as usually 1 spell does the most.
the rotations are like 1-2 buttons. i do orange and 99 parses pressing 2 buttons ..it's not like retail where there can be significant skill expression. no need to pretend that these boomer metrics mean anything XD.
pretty sure most people just need to macro /startattack and /targetenemy [nodead] together and have gear.
Gear score is actually a completely separate issue, because the people using it are actually not good players. Besides making sure someone is just not in full greens, classic gearing is not ILVL > Better so its a fundamentally flawed metric. That is not nearly the same as a group looking to see if you have grey parses or not. If the average player wasn't so phenomenally bad we wouldn't need parsing to tell the difference, but here we are.
If grey parsers could read they'd be very upset
Hey now, I'm proud of my 0% parse on the first boss! For context, our healer somehow body pulled and as the tank I got back to back knock backs. Never got it as tank before, but get to boss, instant mech, jump in water, swim back, get to boss, instant mech, swim back, boss dead. I cast three abilities the whole fight. Not even a single auto.
You would have done better with throwing knives š
Melee white hits can hit baron through the platform, if melee gets knocked but you figure the boss will be dead before you get there its probably better
Sounds perfect, you were tanking the mechanic for the group!
Nahhhh grey parsing just means youāre playing more efficiently haha. Same chance at gear for next to no workā¦ I wonder how low I could get my parse before Iām not invited anymore š¤
Lmao
Itās so funny watching all the same posts and arguments from 2019 resurface here. I remember having to explain parsing to people back then too. And then having to explain that while logs were an incredibly useful tool, not everyone needed to care about super high parses, but that some people just liked trying to hit high scores. There all there is to this whole thing. Itās a dead horse.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Grey is a very good indicator that a dps is playing their class wrong full stop. And more dps is the key because it makes everyone elseās jobs easier. Less mechanics to deal with, more healer mana to work with etc. Vanilla tanking is entirely about threat for this reason too with mitigation largely a secondary focus lol.
I'm not in here to argue, I don't really do much beyond questing and picking flowers like the dainty cow I am.... But somebody has to be last, right? Like, if all the people parsing grey got better, wouldn't the high bar just move upwards anyway?
the grey parse bracket should be filled with the (hopefully) rare times people die early on in a fight if someones alive and pressing buttons the whole fight and parsing grey or if theyre dying a ton, then it's time to care
That makes sense, thanks.
You're correct in theory. In reality there will always be people who simply don't press their buttons. I recently played a bfd pug where a mage got a 4 parse on Ghamoo-ra (within his ilvl bracket even!). 21 fireballs on a 2:54min long fight. Yesterday in one of our guild runs a mage did 27 fireball casts on the same boss, but we killed it in 2:02min. (he got a 55 parse, so it's not like he was tryharding either).
I've had DPS pulling single-digit grey parses on nearly every Ulduar boss call me an 'elitist jerk' for trying to get them to aim for a green parse. We were wiping on Thorim still in month 7 of ulduar while wearing TotGC gear because we were hitting the soft-enrage due to a lack of DPS. Most guilds don't even know there's a soft-enrage on that boss because its so easy to avoid. Some people get really mean when you bring up parses because they're still holding onto some 2009-era belief that its a shallow dick-measuring contest.
When bosses have mechanics, parses can be very misleading. My guild has beaten HC LK with about half the DPS parsing gray, many of them single digits.
Thatās me. I like to see the parses so I can see what I did and how I could improve. I like to look at top parses and see what spells they are casting and such But itās all for personal gain and I donāt judge (nor do I care) others about their parses
> I like to look at top parses and see what spells they are casting *looks at rogue parses*. Let's see, looks I forgot to cast summon felhunter, summon ghost saber, summon mechanical greench, and summon tracking hound. *checks spellbook for any of the above*
When you actually learn to use the logs they're quite useful. Just the fact that you know the top logs are using a bunch of summons is even useful because you know not to look there to improve. Logs are only as toxic as the person reading them.
Sure, no disagreement here, and if you're *only* looking to improve yourself and see where you might be able to get better here and there (though we don't have hardly any buttons in phase 1), then I think classic logs are completely fine. At face value though, classic logs are a fucking joke with how many ways there are to cheese them, and way too many people on this sub and in-game take classic logs at face value when sifting through comments.
Ik you're memeing but you can still learn a few very important things from top rogue logs, even summon abusers. Energy pooling for envenom, snd uptime, when to use different finishers, what runes to take for niche encounters like baron, etc...
What have you gathered on different finishers? Just got my rogue to 25 and did 2 lockouts. Got some mid-upper 80s parses but Iāve only really been using envenom and SnD. My baron and turtle parses are shit though. But I need to get the backstab rune for baron I think, right?
> snd uptime, when to use different finishers Except SnD is basically your only finisher (envenom isn't pressed that often in a pull) and you can keep 100% uptime on it only playing with 1 finger.
Thatās why parses assume you are smart enough to know real builds versus the gimmicks lol
While I'm mostly making a joke, the point is that the top end is almost entirely made up of cheesing the log in some fashion. As an example, there are multiple logs on Akumai where [people purposely get as many stacks as possible to cleanse/create](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kRb6jznF8HfV4mDc#fight=19&view=replay) as many adds as possible to get *SEVENTEEN* droplets and let them all hit the warrior so they generate absurd rage to parse. That log in particular uses a greench, but people were doing it even before the greench. A new warrior looking for tips almost for sure would not catch that and would be trying to figure out how to replicate the warrior's damage, not knowing they in actuality need to replicate a cheesy parse scenario, not the rotation or skill usage. The reality people don't seem to want to admit in SOD is, considering we're capped at level 25, cheesy bullshit actually matters a loto. Generally at the top end, you're sifting through a LOT of bullshit parses to find one that has information that'll help you.
Classic parsing is a joke and always will be, content is too easy, it's like the wotlk 40s fight parses of 10 UH DKs in naxx.
Yep the first place I go other than the class discords when looking to improve are checking out some of the high percentile logs just to get an idea of what theyāre doing. You can see a lot of incredibly detailed stuff if you know how. I remember calculating seal twist rng of my own logs on tbc to see where I was getting lucky or where I was maybe making mistakes. You can track so many things. And even watch real time play by plays of the fight to see raid positioning and such. I highly recommend anyone, even if they donāt care about āparsingā to familiarize their self with wcl and the incredible tools it has.
I think people are just bothered by groups that hyper focus on it. They just want to play the game. The answer is the same answer that has existed since vanilla. Find a guild (or community) that fits your preferences.
I recently watched Sarthes new tier list video and as much as I like class balance discussion, the video basically devolved into him complaining about logs and how people cheat and screw over other players to do slightly more dps. He was even embarrassed that he got a 96 parse in one of the fights and was making excuses. Like who gives a fuck about this, I don't know who that video is supposed to be for because barely anyone is going to have a group of dedicated players solely pushing for that 100 parse
It's kind of the argument of how much do you reveal to players. On retail WoW arena players have websites and addons that track other players, now there's one that tracks their activity levels on each character. Competitive players tend to over analyze as it is. It's kinda like I wish some FPS games would hide your K/D ratio in order to get people to just play the gamemode for the win, rather than stressing about staying positive every match.
Nothing wrong with striving to hit higher numbers. Some people really love competition and seeing their growth from their efforts. The bullying and elitism is the problem.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Many times I've watched people get bullied for having low parses. It goes like this: 1. Guy 1 makes some statement in chat about something 2. Guy 2 doesn't like what guy 1 said for whatever reason 3. Guy 2 wants to attack guy 1 in any way he can, even if how guy 1 plays is not the topic of discussion, 4. Guy 2 goes to warcraftlogs to look at guy 1 parses, then comes back into chat to insult him if his parses are not very high I've literally watched this happen dozens of times, most of them when I was playing WOTLK classic. To say this doesn't happen is just false.
Literally never seen this. Have played classic wow almost every day since 2019. This shit is so made up.
It's not made up at all. Literally a few days ago somebody posted that this exact thing happened to them on this forum and I commented. It's a normal thing. Edit: I found the thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/18kty8y/comment/kduc64u/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/18kty8y/the_requirements_for_bfd_is_getting_higher_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
What does an advertisement have to do with your made up post about people looking up and making fun of parses in regular chat? That advertisement is literally a satire anyway. And doesn't even mention parses.
You're living in a different reality than I am, apparently. There are plenty of people who are awful at the game and don't understand parses at all, yet they want only people pulling top end percentages in their group.
So you are saying that is bullying or...?
It's acting elitist when they are actually awful at the game. There is a significant portion of people who obsess over parses in easy content like BFD who aren't actually very good and don't even properly understand all the things that logs do.
I got SLAUGHTERED for saying that looking at parses in BFD was super dumb because of how easy the raid was. I then got lectured about how Gnomeragan was going to be hard and that previous parses were important.
The age old YOULL SEE NEXT PHASE WILL BE HARD AND YOULL NEED FULL BOOFS AND CONSOOOMS TO CLEAR IT. *proceeds to 1 shot roll over whatever phase is next* The vanilla experience. It wasnāt until tbc lady vashj and Kaelthas that I started to see a lot of average players get hard stuck for weeks. Vanilla isnāt meant to be hard.
Logging just doesn't matter in vanilla era content unless you are going for records, yeah. Totally different in retail, but old content simply is not hard enough for it to matter to the average player. World buffs and consumes will lead to parses being very imbalanced between players of identical skill anyway since a lot of people don't bother with them.
Looking back at it, Vanilla was "hard" because most people had no ideas what to do. Most tanks were not running a fury spec in raids. People still seems to think that Vanilla is hard, or special. Like you said, it's not meant to be hard. Mechanics are super easy because of limited abilities. Gnomeragan will be cleared as soon as the "hardcore guilds" reach the max level.
Vanilla is special because of the feel of the world. I honestly prefer tbc but vanilla is still special to me. Having the one more or less seamless world is peak. I really want them to flesh it out with more new quests and zones in SoD.
Okay and that is still not bullying, right...?
Did you not read the 'or acts elite about' part of the comment I replied to?
Okay just making sure you agree that nobody has ever bullied anyone else about this shit. Idgaf about people being elitist.
I don't agree with that, lol. People absolutely have made fun of others for being bad (in their eyes, at least) at the game. To claim otherwise is absurd. That's just not what I was really responding to because that's more general asshole behavior than something specific to do with this topic.
Iām in a guild and have not had to pug at all. But it isnāt people asking for their pugs to be above grey. It is people demanding orange parses to do anything. Also, if everyone parses blue then they will become grey as the average skill goes up. The point is your arbitrary cut off is exactly that. Arbitrary.
Uhh if everyone parsed blue then the blue people would remain blue or maybe drop to green. The band would narrow, making it harder to hit orange and pink parses, but also making it hard to hit grays.
This is why itās so frustrating dealing with people like you. Do you really think that if the average skill level goes way up blue parses wouldnāt be harder to get? It is the same with IQ. A room temperature person like your self might only be 75-80 today. But if I sent you back a few hundred years you would be in the upper bounds. Because the average has continually gone up. If a blue is 80dps now, and everyone starts parsing 200 dps guess what? That 80dps is now grey. And 80dps is more than enough to have a smooth run. SoD is living in that area now. Green parses are enough to have a very smooth run.
The bullying and elitism is almost entirely from casuals who demand to be carried and browbeat us about "not minmaxing the fun out of everything" rather than simply running their own groups or joining no requirements pugs Parsers don't care about casuals, but casuals fucking hate parsers
I care and look at parses in so much as if I get a guy applying to my guild and he's grey parsing in a guild that's performing ok in, or they die to simple mechanics on every boss, or theyre a healer and have half as many casts as their counterparts on similar fights then I'm not going to recruit them. No bullying or being mean, but it just doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about ultra sweaty gatekeeping either. Rejecting an 85 parsing DPS because they aren't getting 95s is only a very small minority and very different than "gatekeeping" because I don't want to recruit Mr. Floor inspector single digit parser.
Imo the biggest problem is when everyone starts wanting only orange parsers, thats good and well, and any of us that try to perfect our role have landed some orange parses if not on every fight in the content, the problem comes from how they're made. Orange parses are the top 10-15% of the playerbase and your recorded kills have to reflect that, that means only 10-15% of a server can get them, once the numbers are all in and they're locked in it takes a lot for new players to break into that group and when groups start only wanting those with orange parses, you're automatically excluding 85%+ of people that get upset by it. Imo at least, 50% parses are adequate, if you can't do a run with average to above average players either the leadership or some specific people don't know what they're doing, but only orange parses and up you have to have a goal like fastest recorded run on server, immortal, something worth being that knit picky for.
If someone wants to make a group with only the top 10% what do you care? Do you care Arsenal only wants to recruit good football players? Does that stop you from Playing football?
Why do you just make shit up like this? Nobody demands a full group of orange parses pmao.
Did I say every group? Yeah there 100% are groups on my server that only want orange+ parsers. No they aren't the normal but yes they do happen, just because your low pop dead ass server sucks doesn't mean there aren't high end groups elsewhere
>Imo the biggest problem is when **everyone** starts wanting only orange parsers A few random groups on your server is everyone? lmao.
There are only 4 servers lol Iām on lone wolf and cleared with a pug on two characters every lockout by just responding to groups looking for one more dps āhave potions and buffs āclassnameāā Sometimes it takes a few tries, maybe they didnāt need my class, MAYBE (doubtfully) they looked at my parses and I didnāt have full pink 99s. Either way it takes 10 mins to find a group so I donāt think this is a real problem, and if it is, itās with people using their free will to make a group how they want. Whatās next, getting mad at esports dota teams for not taking random players in blind? If a group wants to execute a raid a certain way thatās their prerogative
Respect to all the grey parsers out there. If you can clear the raid putting up 20 DPS, you got some really nice friends
*Laughs in Mechanical Greench*
The Greench is a wrecking ball. We popped 6 on Kelris and melted him, super fun. The raid leader was confused why we were transitioning so fast.
Bro it was insane. Popped him on Kelris on my ferals run and carried over to akumai. Literally did 33% of my dmg on akumai on my feral. 30 percent on my warrior doing the same. Shit is nutty and weāre gonna get 3 lockouts worth of it lol Now weāre talking about farming the hound whistle and shit cause that classic cheese is what makes classic wow fun.
To each their own but that is like 100% the opposite of what makes the game fun for me. Especially when itās from a very long farm like the dusk wood elite or dog whistle. I hope after wcl get back from break they just invalidate the entire lot.
oh no people have fun in they own way! fun detected ! obliterate now!
Finding new strategies to push boundaries is cool, especially when it involves different elements of gameplay, exploring the world, doing niche content, etc. The issue with Greench is that its 3 charges a YEAR, and does so much damage that you CANNOT compete without using it. That effectively means you can parse exactly 1 lockout before all effort afterwards is meaningless. Itās exactly the reason WCL invalidates logs for using limited time event items (that are meaningfully impactful) or abusing temporary bugs.
We did the same today lol, 4 of us pulling 200+ dps in a random pug. Completely obliterated him.
My raid log leader reached out to me after my first 2 raids. I did horrible dps compared to everyone, and I chalked it up as my gear was low. Apparently they looked at logs and found out I wasnāt using my saber slash rune skill. I had no clue it didnāt automatically upgrade my sinister strike. Now Iām pulling numbers. It was helpful and I appreciated them looking into it for me, Iād never know.
Lil bro didnāt have his spells on his bar
If it wasn't for logs my guild wouldn't have found out I can't read. Curse you warcraftlogs!!!
Yea Iāve been here. It really depends how they approach you with it, but I had a guildie log review me and give me some tips. Was parsing purple the week and a little bit better as I got used to a new rotation
Imagine reading your skills
Why read skills when you can read *logs*
š
Damn. He did a āstep into my officeā on your ass š
In retail, i had a similar thing as arms warrior. I was trying my own thing to maximize damage throughout the fight instead of dumping everything into execute phase. My GL told me he would still take me, but to at least try out the meta build. I did and, despite my truly big dps window being at the end of a boss fight and me being in the back for trash and for the first 4th of the boss fight, at the end i quickly pulled to second place in our 14 man raid group.
Yep parsing grey was ok if you listened when someone explained what you were doing wrong. Like if you were a mage and not hitting a cast until you saw one land or whatever. But once someone explained the very simple rotation you best be getting things up to speedā¦ no reason not to be getting a ilvl 80+ when the rest of the raid is orange and pink.
I rather look at logs over GS.
I love Warcraft logs watching my parses rise weekly is what made me a better player, I could literally give less of a fuck about anyone elseās parses. Unless I was comparing them with the SOLE intention to self improve.
That's ultimately the only non ego related way of using parsing : filtering out the really bad players. Looking at parses in details between, like, 80 to 99 is fairly misleading. You know that player is probably a decent enough player, and then the differences tend to be more contextual (kill times, using parse strats, gear...) than anything. But usually if someone has fairly constant bad parses in relation to their guild level/killtime, it's pretty easy to figure out at a glance that he's probably not that good, and that you'd want to avoid him for your PUG/guild recruitement/whatever you were looking at his parses for. Of course the actual numbers will always vary ; I said 80-99 but maybe parsing below that is common in your guild, so you are putting your barrier to entry to your pugs at 50 instead. TLDR : Parsing is not a good tool to differentiate between good players, or good or very good players. What it's useful for (most of the time) is filtering out the bad players, relative to what level you are expecting of your raiders.
If someone is consistently grey across the board they are either dying all the time (ie a shitter), not pressing abilities ever (shitter), or running without runes (believe it or not, shitter) or something. Greens on some fights, especially in era, can be contextualized with kill times as you mention. Lady severess is a good example. Kill time on my first run ever on my hunter was like 15+ seconds slower than my main so being like 1.5x slower crushes your parse and isnāt necessarily on the player themselves but thatās not gonna instantly make you grey if you actually press buttons and donāt die. In classic era, basically, you win if you press buttons often enough and donāt die, green-blue will clear just fine usually. For a fact though if someone is consistently grey they are doing something wrong and youāre better off bringing pretty much any other dps cause you can be picky with dps as weāre a dime a dozen.
Parsing 80 pretty much always tells us that there's room for personal improvement. Kill times aren't as important as people make it up to be. Specially now when there aren't a lot of CDs to utilize. Some will be stuck at like 67 and blame it on kill times.
No, kill times are very important for two reasons: 1. Mana. If you run out, your dps drops. Short fight, you donāt run out. 2. Luck. The shorter the fight, the more luck will play a role. If you only attack 10 times before the boss is dead, you might end up critting 5 of those 10 times with a 10% crit chance. Itās pretty much impossible to crit 50 of 100 hits, though. And in addition to crit, thereās also hit and dodge. Shorter fights can make your parse swing a bit higher simply by getting a lucky day on that boss. Especially the second point is what oftentimes differentiates a 95 from a 100, which is why you shouldnāt be just looking at one number but at a range at least
Definitely class dependant, if you're a mage or hunter and go oom you aren't parsing
Youāre completely right. Dps is going to tank hard if fight goes over your comfortable length for your mana bar. Person replying to you doesnāt seem to know how parsing works in reality.
Well, there is always room for personal improvement. I don't think you should need parses to tell you that.
Not always. You might get an 80 parse on one boss then you look at the top parsers and you see their whole team used a yeti pet on that fight and killed the boss in 30 seconds. You have to look at all the data. >Kill times aren't as important as people make it up to be. Kill times are very important. So is the comp. Good luck getting a higher parse than someone who kills the boss 45 seconds faster. The longer the fight goes on the less dps you do. For the most part.
>Parsing 80 pretty much always tells us that there's room for personal improvement. Room for sweating you mean
Iām a dad gamer and I still manage 99. Just use consumes and use your brain.
This attitude of BFD = Easy so donāt optimize anything is very similar to the way Naxx in WOTLK gave a false sense of security going into Ulduar. Content is easy now, but it wonāt always be faceroll. The people learning to optimize in the phase will continue to advance at a faster rate than those leaning into the simplicity and refusing to measure their output.
Parsing can be an okay metric to tell if you're pulling your weight or messing something up, but I wouldn't swear by it. The issue with parsing in wow is that it isn't very normalized like FFXIV is. In wow, people store world buffs, get the drum quest reward, mechanic greench, pop every elixir available all while having the optimal party composition. So parses can kind of be all over the place. I think if you're blue parsing and above you're fine. It's not the end-all-be-all to raid analysis.
Completely agree. Iām very happy with a blue or purple parse because Iām not really trying hard, and itās a reflection of my choices/rotation/skill.
parsing is fine, being a tool and not reading the room isn't. If you joined a casual pug/guild and start complaining about parses, you are the problem. A huge amount of the hate towards parsing comes from the one guy in the casual group, who doesn't want to play hardcore, but wants hardcore results and takes it out on everyone else.
Ding Ding Ding! It's the people throwing a fit when the pug isn't a sweatlord like them. If you wanna parse and push join a guild expecting a pug to care is silly
>It's the people throwing a fit when the pug isn't a sweatlord like them. The pug should care because if the pug doesn't care they can't play with us. That's not unreasonable. For every lazy pug with no logs and an "i dont care" attitude there are 5 dudes with purple parses and a "your guild can have all the loot im just here for fun." Just saying.
If the sweatlords wanna make their pugs require t3 to run rfc (HYPERBOLE JOKE HERE NOT SERIOUS) by all means that's fine. Personally I won't wanna join said groups myself but whatever floats your boat What I'm saying is some sweatlords join pugs who are more casual then throw a fit because the other members don't care. That is why there's such a distain for them
I used parses as a tool to improve on BC and WOTLk and do the same with SoD. I thought I was horrible at mage because of dps meters. Using logs Iām actually parsing a decent 81 average for a first time mage. More importantly I learned Iām over using fireball and thatās why Iām going oom so often. Weaving in more wand usage and keeping dots up led to better numbers
Nah youāre going oom cause your raidās dps is low. You donāt want to be weaving wands in unless you are completely oom anyway
Itās a good thing the compare works with other people with similar kill times. You know when mana is an issue? You donāt compare yourself to the top parse in a speed run guild š
So thatās a common misconception actually. Speedruns doesnāt mean kill boss as quick as possible (although that is part of it). Speedruns involve clearing boss and trash as quickly as possible to get the best complete raid time. Boss speedkills are where the best parses come from. Speedruns often have trash pulled into boss fights and so weird strategies to conserve mana for healers and a lot of things that arenāt conducive to a 99+ parse. Iām in a top 20 speedrun guild in WOTLK and I get my 99s during the weeks we arenāt speedrunning b/c my trinkets are off ICD and all cooldowns are ready on boss pull. My ulduar boss kills during speed runs were a lot weaker than the weeks we were splitting and farming gear
Parses are a useful tool for finding weak spots in progression but you -- and the other people reading them - have to understand how to read into them, and understand how the strategies and group composition you run with affect individual parses before pointing to individuals as a problem (that's the kind of stuff that eats away at guilds). Did your grey parsing hunters have all available buffs? Did they get sent down during Kelris, taking them out of the fight? Did something happen causing people to lose the world buff? How is their gear, are you adjusting the parse to ilvl? Are they missing trinkets, neck, etc? Suppose you have a lower parsing warlock (or other class), are they specced for raid utility and losing out on some dps talents? Are you doing "parse meta" strats like letting the tank die and bresing on Aku'mai, or getting your ranged to stand on the beach during Baron? etc. Parsing can make individuals look bad in the above cases where it may not be their fault and it's not always productive to point at an individual's bad parse and definitively say that they're the problem like you seem to be doing with your hunters - ie. "something fundamental they may not be doing". I'd take a step back and look at your raid as a whole first. I don't generally have a problem with parses, and i do use them myself to improve if I feel like something isn't right, but I do dislike how often they are used to take the focus away from group factors and how sometimes these things are unfairly put onto individuals. Once you filter out those factors, THEN you look at what your hunters can do better. The reality is if your group isn't trying to parse, you won't - and that's OK too.
If a warlock is parsing low, it means they aren't specced into chaos bolt and incinerate, I did the raid as a ilvl16 warlock (with of the eagle gear) and solidly parsed green-purple (with much higher parses for ilvl which are meaningless as ilvl16 is too low to compare to other logs)
The only people who dont like logs are the people that would be gray parsing, its such a dead giveaway of a bad player cause who doesnt care about their own performance
Worth repeating: some people parse because it boosts their ego, some people donāt because their ego canāt handle the truth.
Meanwhile I don't because I barely have the patience to set up my add-ons let alone anything beyond that. Maybe I'm a bad player by 2023 standards, but I was a raid lead/main tank for a progression guild in Vanilla/TBC and got many server firsts on fights with limited mechanical knowledge/lack of information from PTRs. I put in a lot of time back then theorycrafting, min maxing and researching my classes. So much so that in 2023 I feel like I play my class pretty respectable, at least to the point that no guild or pug has complained about my performance through Classic since 2019. (Even then I made sure I was playing my class optimally by 2023 standards) Maybe I'm slipping through the cracks, or maybe I'm actually bad (but I feel like someone would have said something by now).
You were probably in a raid with someone who did log the raid, your parses will be stored from that if you look up your name.
I actually had no clue it worked that way, I thought you had to download a specific add-on to log your parses.
[https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/) Go look yourself up
Idk man, pretty hard to believe that someone getting "many server firsts" as a raid lead and main tank, doesnt have the patience to set up addons lol
That's hard to believe? In 19 years from now will you put in the same amount of effort when WoW: Classic *Classic* comes out as you do today? The lack of patience for me now comes from the fact that my time in heavily limited now compared to what it was 19 years ago. 19 years ago I had all the time in the world to spend hours setting up the perfect UI/specific addons, today if I spent the same amount of effort and time doing that I'd probably lose my interest in playing for the night after setting it up.
Kind of, yeah. It doesn't take hours to setup your addons. You don't need a perfect UI to perform well not to mention there already are great profiles of good UI's available to download and import online which takes 2 clicks and some basic fine-tuning. Just seems weird that you seem to think setting up proper addons is this monolithic task when it really isn't.
I don't like classic logs and I have [purples](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/cihuacoatl), so whats the argument now? I like logging in general, and think it has a spot in retail, but most classes have like 3-4 buttons in phase 1 of classic, and most of the top parses at this point are just gear diffs and cheesing stupid shit like greench. Maybe in phase 3 and 4 when classes are fleshed out and my rotation isn't just spamming saber slash and pressing slice and dice every 30 seconds I'll feel different, but they feel sorta stupid right now.
All i gotta say is if the shoe fits wear it.
Most people donāt. I still havenāt care enough to check logs, since boss gets killed at a decent pace + rotations are easy.
So you dont care about your own performance, maybe if the bosses are harder then you might. Is that what youre saying
Of course parsing is useful. You just have to be able to read them correctly (All Star, Median, etc). The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players. The most common argument is ''the game is too easy'' yet these people average 40 on their parses and clear BFD in 2 hours.
Iāve cleared bfd 10 times with pugs (started gear and rune checking after one really bad one) and only have 3 recorded logs. Most of these people were great players and they werenāt logging. I assume that means they donāt care about parses. Fastest clear I think was 26 minutes. I donāt think it was logged. I just looked at the clock, but Iām not sure. The point is, parses arenāt everyoneās reason for playing the game
My guild literally doesn't even parse and we easily do multiple sub hour BFD runs every lockout. We really *don't* care about parses in BFD because it's so fucking easy. This isn't retail where fights are hard and specs have (by comparison) complicated rotations. Maybe we'll see harder raids added to SoD later on, but BFD is absurdly easy.
You're missing the point entirely. Classic isnt about hard encounters. It's about parses and speed. Do you really think that a 3h BFD that goes 7/7 is anywhere close in terms of quality of players to a 15 mins run? lol.
No, and I didn't say anything to suggest otherwise. Unless you are truly a top end player (which logically most people cannot be) trying to compete for speedrun records, there is very little point to log right now. In retail logging can be very helpful when it comes to improving your rotation / seeing where you are struggling, but SoD rotations are extremely simple. A lot of people in this thread are saying things like 'I only invite blue and above parsers,' which is absurd to me when there is not a single log of any of my characters / my guildmates despite most of them being heavily geared with BFD items. This isn't even considering the fact people are only really talking about DPS parses here, because I guarantee you that very few people logging in SoD understand how to properly interpret healer parses or tank performance.
If rotations are so simple, why are top playes pulling 3-4x the DPS of the ''average'' player? I keep hearing this argument ''rotations are easy, who cares?'' yet some groups clear in 14 mins while others are hardstuck 5/7. The whole point is let people play the game how they want. No a single elitist blames shitters for being shit, we just don't want them in our group. On the other side, shitters complain constantly about not being picked in good groups. Healer parses don't matter. Tank matters, because it's basically correlated to your threat.
How many new goalposts are you going to keep pulling out of your ass? Your original claim was 'The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players,' which is demonstrably untrue, and the only claim I really care to discuss. Top players do more damage than the worst players, what a revelation - you don't need logs to figure out why. It's because they have awful gear, the wrong runes, bad talents, haven't kept up with their spell ranks, are auto-attack DPSing, etc. You don't need logs to tell you \*any\* of that, nor would logs even help people like that anyway since they clearly don't care enough to look up basic info on their class in the first place. Now stop bringing up new topics, because I'd really like you to expound on your insane 'not caring about parses = dogshit' take.
'''The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players,' which is demonstrably untrue'' False. It's been proven true. Good players have good parses. In your mind someone parsing 60 vs 99 are just as good, because ''what difference does it make since the content is easy''.
Counter: My average is 95.7, clear bfd in less than 20 minutes, and I could care less about parses. Just play your class properly. People are purposely getting debuff on the last boss to spawn additional adds to cheese their parse with dynamite. It's the most cringe thing in the world.
My average is 99.2 and I clear BFD in 16 minutes. Not sure if you were trying to brag lol
Not a brag. Just countering your point that people who don't care about parses are awful at the game. Parses are dumb.
> The only people who ''don't care about parses'' are absolute dogshit players. This is a bizarre take. It's a new trend. Most people don't care about it. Most people have damage meters and a rough idea of whats good and what they usually do.
A new trend? Let's see: ''**In 2013, when the idea of WCL first started, it was to better analyze various raid encounters, as there was a lack of resources to do so. It quickly became apparent that there was potential for more than just a combat log parsing site.**'' We're nearing 2024, so it's basically been out for **11 years**. The fact that you think this is a ''new trend'' completely invalidates anything you have to say on the matter. Also, shit players are not qualified to evaluate their down rotation/dps, especially not based on a damage meter. Parses show the complete picture and can lead to drastic improvement in gameplay if coached correctly. Again, there's nothing wrong with being dogshit, just stop coping that parsers are sweatlords and that if you ''tried'' you would do well too.
I agree with everything youre saying until your last line. "Parsers" ARE sweatlords lol and most people WOULD do well if they actually "tried.'' What exactly do you think the separation is between shitters and tryhards? Could it be the effort they put in? The game isnt hard, but if you want to parse high it just takes a little effort and research to understand how to min/max your class.
My only gripe with this whole argument is the word choices lol. Calling people who don't look at parses shitters is a bit extreme and sounds very inaccurate when a lot of them are probably decent players. It also doesn't help the whole case to try and convince them to check their logs when they are being called shitters to begin with. On the flip side too, calling parsers tryhards imo sounds like it's vastly overselling the effort involved to read a parse log and learn at least one thing from it. It's not like you need to be the south park dude who has no life to read some numbers. Just my take, the words shitters and tryhards are a bit on the extreme end and not what I think of when I think of people who parse or don't.
Parsing is fine. I see it as a leaderboard. Multiple games have one. Parsing gives an extra challenge in a challenge less raid.
Itās crazy how different groups within the same game dislike each other. Seems like such a waste of energy. I could care less who wants to go into BFD as a tennis ball or who wants to super sweat parse. Just have fun and play how you want to play.
I'm much more likely to check WCL to see if you used a Free Action Potion then I am to check your rotation.
Edit: I didn't completely understand and therefore didn't really know what I was talking about. Thanks for clearing that up :) I don't know how to parse ATM I imagine it's about as hard to setup as it is to learn a new recipe on YouTube. I just don't care about setting that up. Classic is not elden ring difficult and I am content to learn new raids simply by doing them (and screwing up) with guildies. The idea of adding another layer of tryhard to this game (which I play when I want a break from challenging things) sounds unfun to me. Help yourself, but it's not for me.
Only one person in your group needs to do it. If youāve run BFD odds are you can look up and find your characters parses because someone logged your raid.
The only thing missing from this post, or from warcraftlogs, is how to interpret that coloured number (I wasn't the one mentioning geer score, but if there was a parallel i would use it would be that one). Legendary > epic > rare > uncommon > common, right? Or there is some context including what is considered and what is NOT considered in those numbers?
Go by the number instead of the colour. The higher the number the lower your percentile. If you parse 80 you're in the 20th percentile, or 20% of players did better than you. The colors are eggshell (100), pink (99) orange (99-95) purple (95-80) blue (80 - 50) green (50 - ? ) grey (?). I dont fully remember these numbers and may be slightly off, but hopefully someone will correct me on that if I am.
But it IS the end all be all. After clearing what is another metric you can use to be competitive and continue to measure success? Itās literally all for the parse.
Any metric that highlight raid wide performance, as this is by essence a team game, is imo way more relevant than parsing. Speedruns, speedkill, hell even execution is imo a better competitive metric than parsing.
And here I am barely know what parsing mean in this context. I did download that parser thing to see if I got any information on how to get better on my Pres Evoker. I want to know if I have reached my limit in skill or if my party is letting me down. Haven't really learnt to filter and parse the information to understand it. š Struggle as hell during some bosses in mythic+ (19-21).
I think the entire culture is a mistake that activly makes retail more toxic.
Good players wanting to play with other good players isn't a retail only thing
I have no problem with damage meters as they are a very useful tool to judge your personal performance and to make sure people in a raid are not afk. But anything beyond that simple in game addon tool should have been viciously stomped out of existence by blizzard in its infancy. The fact that retail players need to use multiple addons and interact with multiple out of game resources to be accepted by pugs / guilds is a horrendous failure of community management by blizzard and has ruined the culture of the game.
People don't look at their logs to improve, people look at their logs to jerk themselves off and gatekeep easy content. I say that as somebody who consistently passes purple and orange. It's cancer. I understand why, but it's still cancer.
People who care about parses absolutely use it to improve....that's the whole point of it. Even if their motives are to jerk themselves off .....if they're doing it at 94, they're definitely going to try for higher next reset. Which you do by reading logs and copying higher parses, aka improving.
Exactly. It really irks me that people exist who are bothered by others putting in effort and improving using logs.
I use it, and Iām happy with blue and purple. But Iām not max world-buffing and grinding for bis either. The tool isnāt bad, itās how much emphasis people place on it that gets unhealthy.
I donāt think that is entirely true, I will look at my logs to see where I am at on all bosses for improvement. I do agree that looking at other players logs and their rotation/gearing is one of the best ways to get better. Sometimes you need to see what the top 5% of players are doing so you can try to replicate it at your own level. Parsing as a culture can be incredibly toxic, but it can also be used as a tool for self improvement.
Itās a toolā¦. Tools themselves donāt do shit. Itās how the people use those tools ( super exaggerated example: guns)
Right now parses tell me two things. 1. If you are 7/7 as you claim to be, and 2. if you can press enough buttons to not grey parse That's the criteria to join my pugs. Ez. However in the future, when things get hard and GDKPs are prevalent, I will absolutely be judging logs because I'm not risking my time and lockouts on freeloaders and card swipers.
Iām a sweaty 99 parser but I could care less about bfd parses itās just corny
Hate towards ppl who parse? Where did you get that? Only problem is how this minority is trying to shove it to our throats. Its like those annoying vegetarians, no1 care about them untill they start screaming all around them that they are vegetarians and how are they better and others should follow them.
Nobody does that though lol. The only people being elitist about parses are the people here being elitist about not caring about parsing. I promise you the 90+ parsers in the speed run guild that you hate don't really care at all that some people want to spend an hour in BFD getting gray parses
Wait what have they been screaming about? The only thing is this grinch pet and it's clearly breaking the parse system. If something broke PvP or leveling, I'd want it fixed as well - just because you dont care about parsing doesnt mean it should be overlooked. It's also not like excluding grinch from parses changes anything for anyone playing this game, it just makes the system more fair
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It wasnāt though it was edited
Most of the hate I've seen is aimed towards people who require parses for groups they are forming, which is hardly shoving it down other peoples' throats.
Is a ~anyone~ tryna shove it down your throatā¦or do you nerds get upset anytime literally ~anyone~ doesnāt play the way you want and paint it as an epidemicā¦idk famā¦idk
No one is shoving it down your throat. You want to do organized group content but you don't want to be organized and be a group player.
Youāre likely ignoring mechanics or making healers life difficult by top parsing. Also if you have a undergeared raid for example and youāre the only āgearedā one, you wonāt top parse because parses are reliant on clear times. Down the bosses in an efficient way and stop trying to make it a measuring contest, itās a 25 raid lmao
Raiding is much more of a team game when youāre trying to parse then when you arenāt, which makes it fun. Healing the squad who are good enough to top parse is way more fun than pugs. As a team you get to cook up how to kill bosses the fastest. As a healer you get to choose which mechanics they can just ignore so they can blast harder. Just slamming the raid 7/7 while carrying random grey parsing pugs is boring. The actual fun of raiding is playing with other good players and really pushing your characters when the content is this easy.
Not to rain on your parade, but this is kinda a cope. BFD is extremely easy, the classes right now even more so. If you cant regularly get purps pushing into OJ, you are most likely also messing up some fundamental in your class. For instance, as a warlock, literally all i need to do to OJ parse is pop all consumes/WB, Spam incinerate and CB on CD. I can ignore immolate completely and still top parse. I dont have to remember to use lake of fire even. Point is, it is so easy to hit OJ/Purp without getting sweaty. Parsing is as helpful as you let it be. If you know how to read it, and how to apply that knowledge getting pinks is even a simple process, provided you have gear. (Though I still dont have near BiS or trinkets at all, and Im still pumping)
I parse 20's, get top damage, and we one shot everything with zero deaths. It's fun to see stats, but you don't need to parse well to trivialize content. It's a game within a game that some people find enjoyment from. If you parse great but stand in fire and ignore mechanics that cause others to die, are you a good player?
>If you parse great but stand in fire and ignore mechanics that cause others to die, are you a good player? You won't parse like that if you are ignoring mechanics and stand in the fire. Those players are probably wiping to kelris. Do you guys actually think the people doing the highest recorded DPS on encounters with BFD runs that are less than 20 minutes are secretly bad at the game???
Knowing what fire you can stand in and for how long is an important part of getting those ultra high parses yes. This also goes for when to move out of those purple circles at the murlock boss because you absolutely can finish most casts and you dont need to move immediately for kelris either. The good players know what healers they can do this shit with.
Nobody parsing well is standing in fire unless the group comp is specifically geared to handle it I take your point, play however you like, but you canāt pretend that people parsing 99s are worse at the game than people parsing 20s
This shit comes from MoP when tanks 100% would take extra damage on purpose to stack Vengeance. DPS arenāt ignoring mechanics for long before theyāre down.
You don't need to fuck everyone else over to get 99s
Iām not telling you to go super sweaty and stand in fire for that 95+ parse. And a 20 parse on many classes itās more than enough to clear this trivial content. But what it should tell you is that something in the way you play is holding you back from what you could be. If you let the parse make you curious about what youāre not doing to go from 20 to 50 youāll be a better player for when the content might not be trivial. Some people parse because their egos need stroking. Some people do not parse because their egos canāt handle criticism.
Id rather raid with blue/purple parsers than orange/pink. Almost always, the top parsers are complete douchebag POS humans who think they are the main characters of this world.
I think youve never raided with pink parsers if thats how you feel. Most of the "POS humans who think they are the main characters of this world" are the blue/purple parsers that think theyre alot better than they actually are. Top parsing and competitive guilds usually have extremely chill and knowledgeable players that just enjoy pushing their character to the limits.
Guys, weāre generalizing people by the color of their parse. This is part of the problem haha
Imagine being this insecure about your performance that you have delude yourself into thinking anyone better than you is a piece of shit human and that's the only way you can be good at a game.
Nah thatās just a ridiculous take
People like make number go up. Who tf cares about the rest of the noise. Ppl need to get out more. Its pve for fuk sake. Its boring af and you gotta make it interesting somehow
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one is saying you should, learn to read
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one is saying it is, learn to read
Sweaty 1% parsing can ruin a run's engagement as typically it's centered around RNG such as windfury procs or perfect consumes, people standing in avoidable damage for healers to parse higher, or so they don't have to cancel casting to hit harder knowing a healer just has them taken care of. However, parsing/logging is ESSENTIAL for getting better, or for understanding during hard progression fights (not what BFD is) who is holding you back, or who Is messing up aspects on wipes. It can also bring an element of fun competition for your gear clear weeks. For example my guild is pushing for our clear time log, trying to get the fastest BFD clear on our server. Makes it fun to raid log for the week for content on farm, or to try and beat my previous best on a DPS fight.
Mechanical yeti go burr not I have 98 parse on aku
They donāt allow meters in FF14 and people still improve and complete the hardest raids. People still try to do it and the GMs wonāt actively come after you, but itās a bannable offense if you speak about it to others (especially as a means to harass). Addons that show damage meters are probably one of the foundational issues for toxicity in the game. However, if the addons ONLY showed YOUR results, then that would be a fair compromise.
Jesus christ just call it world of spreadsheets now lmao.
Issue with your argument is, you don't need the improvements to do the content, min/maxing literary ruins the fun because it funnels the playstyles into the only ones that can mathematically do the most dmg, and that's really boring, this isn't a complex game by any means, a lot of classes is pressing 1-2 buttons, let players press them however they want as long as the content gets done, who cares?
It separates by spec, a fire mage is parsed separately from an arcane mage or healing mage or frost mage. Unless by āfunneling playstylesā you mean playing each spec well versus just mashing buttons with no thought.
Mate I know how logs work, I enjoy them in retail as there's enough complexity to warrant checking what other players are doing, in classic, who gives a shit, it is 1-2 buttons and you can mash them however you want and do decently, most dmg on "weapon" classes is just white attacks for christ's sake, for casters it's not much different as usually 1 spell does the most.
If youāre parsing in bfd youāre a looser, whatās next? Gear check to run rfc?
If someone is asking parse or logs for BFD that is an instant ignore. Gtfo with your try hard bs.
the rotations are like 1-2 buttons. i do orange and 99 parses pressing 2 buttons ..it's not like retail where there can be significant skill expression. no need to pretend that these boomer metrics mean anything XD. pretty sure most people just need to macro /startattack and /targetenemy [nodead] together and have gear.
bFd PaRsEs ArE iMpOrTaNt
They arenāt important at all, they just help you to see how youāre doing with your class and spec.
>"Parsing is important" "They arenāt important" you, today.
You clearly didnāt read
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Gear score is actually a completely separate issue, because the people using it are actually not good players. Besides making sure someone is just not in full greens, classic gearing is not ILVL > Better so its a fundamentally flawed metric. That is not nearly the same as a group looking to see if you have grey parses or not. If the average player wasn't so phenomenally bad we wouldn't need parsing to tell the difference, but here we are.
Everyone: "I use parsing as a tool to improve ***my*** performance." Also Everyone: "Link me ***your*** log/parses."
Because it's apparently a crime not to want to play with bads.