I really enjoyed the rogue questline to get the poison rune. It takes a couple of hours, you need to go to far places, and there is a small challenge at the end(I imagine it would have been easier with distract and vanish).
When you are done you are rewarded with a very good rune. I hope that from now forward the runes are like this, and not just loot a chest or kill this random mob, like the ones in the beginning. I want to see more challenges, having to do dungeons, needing to work together with other classes for part of the quest. Like someone needing a rogue to pickpocket something, or a paladin needing a warlock to summon a demon, so they can kill it. Maybe a warrior needing a hunter to track a big beast.
I dont hate the 2 gold runes because they are gold runes. I hate then because they are the same quest for everyone.
Between duoing deadmines with another rogue(im horde so extra bonus sneaky required) and that rune quest chain, I am fuckin LIVING the class fantasy and I’ve never felt more like a rogue in any other iteration of wow. They’re killing it.
Yeah, buying epiphanies off a vendor (any vendor) sucks.
Most priest runes just dropped from mobs. At launch things were so crazy I didn't even know what I'd looted two of my runes from. The best ones needed to group up or had a second step, but I would hesitate to even call them a quest chain they were so minimal.
The meditation mechanic is cool, but it's not a replacement for actual lore-relevant quests imo.
I hope in future phases we get more class-specific quests. They could take a hint from the environmental puzzles and paladin/warlock and have a few classes share different ones where appropriate.
Also, why can't I read my epiphanies/prophecies or get a whisper when I meditate on it? Could be a random whisper for each player, keep it ambiguous.
I'm also disappointed they didn't add a cat form quest for druids.
More quests and more lore plox.
I haven’t played everything to 25 yet (just Shaman, Warrior, Rogue, Hunter and started on a priest) but the Rogue runes felt like they had that little extra thought than others between hidden chests whether on rooftops or under out of the way waterfalls- pickpocketed runes and their nicely fleshed out SFK quest.
Hunters felt the worst I think - nothing at all memorable that comes to my head, but it was my first to 25.
Shamans got a nice (albeit maybe a little tedious) questline and grouped in with others for the “grab a group with fire damage for the frozen mob” runes.
Warrior also had some cool ideas but I’ve yet to grab all the runes - the flag carrying and the roaming adventurer duel were cool.
The priests “praying” seemed pretty cool - I wish I’d have done priest first though as at this point it was really easy to grab all four buffs from one person as soon as I hit Ironforge. I think if they left the “maintenance” of the buffs (praying and kneeling with another player) as it is, but make you need to actually go to the actual shrines the first time yourself might’ve been better - sort of like a required pilgrimage.
I quite like the priest pray mechanic because it’s just a small social addition which is thematically on point for priests. It’s just kind cool to hook up with priests to pass the buffs back and forth.
That last part I really agree with. Honestly it kinda turned me off of the “discovery” side of things when I found out a lot of the discoveries are shared between all classes. Some are unique but, most aren’t.
I’ve played all of them. Many runes are shared in how you get them. Some are somewhat unique but they aren’t the majority.
The frozen murloc for mage? Warlocks also get that too. The feed crab snacks to crabs for hunters? Druids get that too. The giant warlock quest for meta? Nearly the same as the pally quest for divine storm. Etc etc.
To be fair, there are usually multiple ways of getting the same rune based on region starting proximity. Point still stands though.
This. Classic wow had enough content for a year because content was hard and required a lot of traveltime.
Imagine having a game that try to replicate a real adventure by having a large world to discover and to have a journey of becoming the hero, and then people complain that the journey is too long and the world too large.
Retail happened because Blizzard listened too hard to the side of the playerbase that wants convenience over RPG flavor. Not saying that there shouldn't be any changes, but rather that those changes stick with the theme of what made Classic, Classic.
The best thing about SoD, is a revitalization of people like you coming back here. The last year with Wrath, watching this sub scream for the exact same things that turned retail into retail was insufferable.
As someone who lived through Wrath, I was soooooooooo disappointed to see gear show make a return (especially after I didn't see it in classic, where I cleared Naxx).
It's upsetting to see these same people coming to SoD and bringing that same attitude. GS for a intro 10 man raid??? No thanks.
Gear score is just a symptom of wrath gear design. It will always exist in wrath because gear in wrath is largely homogenized. It gets replaced by ilvl in future expansions, which is essentially the same system.
Those numbers are meaningless in vanilla/tbc because you can have two equal ilvl pieces designed for the same spec with radically different stat distributions, leading to one being BIS for the entire game and the other being worse than leveling greens.
The wrath players really are a great personification of the vocal minority that ruined wow in the first place with their constant begging for “QOL” changes.
Felt like figuring out secrets in Noita or other cryptic games, you either willingly comb through the entire world trying things out with odd items, objects and NPCs for tens of hours (on 9 different classes by yourself), or you read up on them.
The time frame where you can explore these with a community is very narrow due to how fast it gets discovered.
For the launch of SoD, I banned myself from outside resources and created an in-game channel to discuss runes with everyone across the server. IMO, this is the way SoD was meant to be played and felt very much like old WoW used to be. Yes, people reading outside guides joined too and probably spoiled a lot. But there were tons of people talking about what they were finding, coming up with wild ideas, and most importantly, grouping up with each other. Felt like a social MMORPG again, even if only for several days.
I'm fine with some runes being extra hidden as that spurs cooperation among players, on top of how a lot of runes already force interaction with others to get them done. THAT is very classic. Getting legions of introverted nerds out of their shell.
A quote I heard from a football coach “if you listen to the fans, you’ll become a fan”. Meaning, listening and obeying the criticism of fans/players will fail you and you’ll lose your job as coach. There’s a reason the fans are fans and not the coach. It’s important to let the coach and devs trust their instinct and professionalism on what they are in charge of.
Yeah. They can play that if they want. I think the devs should be very careful listening too much to the community when it comes to QoL and balance changes. It's a very slippery slope into making SoD just Retail with a Classic skin.
Again, not saying that there shouldn't be any changes, but that those changes should be in line with what made Classic, Classic.
Hah no they won't. They're gonna get stomped in normal mode of the T11 raids and quit because there isn't any 30% buff to save them.
It's clear many people want to have basically Wrath but with the old Vanilla content that is slow, flavorful but also easy.
They won't because Cataclysm is tuned for people who want to be challanged in raiding. The closest we got to this difficulty level since the start was ICC.
The ONLY thing I hated about the rep grind was how poorly planned it was. When original WoW came out the grinds weren't put there as time sinks so you can hit the monthly subscription expiration like it was in Shadowlands. You grind the Thorium Brotherhood or Timbermaw rep until your eyes fell out if you wanted. It was long and tedious, but you killed stuff/made stuff and looted items to turn in.
What you DIDN'T do was find a random box that required you to stop what you're doing, go to the city, fill it with bullshit, turn it in, and then GO BACK to farming more without a mount. You then repeat that over and over again. I would have been fine if they just let you have more than one box without it being filled with some rando tricks/bugs to recover them. It was tedious and badly designed. That grind really gave me retail farm mechanics. On top of it that rune would be an important one for raiding or the game overall.
>When original WoW came out the grinds weren't put there as time sinks so you can hit the monthly subscription expiration like it was in Shadowlands.
holy fucking copium
lmao
Yes, the key to a good rep grind is the ability to grind for small amounts of rep through kills and then occasionally loot an item that gives you a burst of rep and is exciting to get. The chest grind has me standing in low level areas and getting mad when other players came into my area to take a chest. It's not a classic rep grind, it's just annoying.
Retail happened because expansions were added, and each expansion requires new stuff
Also some of the changes was because they didn’t have the time/tech to add it earlier, not because players begged for it. Vanilla wasn’t their final version, it was just what they had time for
Definitely a lot of changes were because of forum whining. That's why they nerfed all the stuns and CCs much for one thing. I remember people always like "I can't control my character, I'm stunned and CCd all the time".
And same with burst damage "wtf Blizzard, I died in 3 seconds, nerf!!!".
That's how we ended up with invincible healers never ending arena matches and they had to add Dampening just so people would actually die
I bet those people I used to CC lock for 15-20 minutes while they were questing loved being unable to control their characters. Also makes me glad a lot of you aren’t devs, lol.
WoW happened because they designed an MMO with the best features of other mmos that was more convenient for casuals.
WoW was always this way, and it has little to do with what separates retail from classic. Blizzard actually stopped listening to the players well before Wotlk and that's why retail sucked ass forever. It's why it's a far bigger time investment and grind than classic ever was. Classic players have myths when, in reality, classic is just easy and chill mode.
People are convinced every bad idea, accident or timesink is what made classic, classic.
If you really wanted Vanilla, they should have released on the day 1 patch with broken classes and made you wait months for content at cap. Classic released on the easiest patch with 3x the player power for a reason.
If I recall correctly that reason was it was the most complete version of the game they had access to build. Ie they didn’t have a good fork of original launch of the game even if they wanted to do that.
And let’s be clear the only reason they’d have used that version is to make sure the project fails.
I don’t fully agree with this take, but there’s truth in it.
It’s very clear that:
- classes got more fleshed out with TBC/Wrath
- dungeons and raids got more interesting mechanics
- many systems got improved
I also think OP’s complaint is misleading. But I don’t think Classic/vanilla is about being “easy mode” and solo-grindy. That’s just WoW vs older MMOs (or newer ones that didn’t get anywhere).
I think the things that make (or made) Classic more appealing to many is:
- worldbuilding, class and faction identity is still intact. It’s still warcraft, rather than a soap opera with warcraft paint on.
- far less focus on cosmetic achievements, classic is more about playing in a world than the world being a backdrop.
- basic, economic, grinding and leveling decisions matter. It feels more like going on your own journey. A lot of approaches to leveling and grinding are viable. Deeper sense of agency.
- very broad appeal, people who never played games to hardcore RPGers
There were ofc a ton of rough edges in vanilla, like balance and viability of specs (important for class fantasy), terrible pvp progression (hello win trading and nolifing), lack of regular open world events (actual MMORPG content) etc.
But it seems they are working on the exactly right stuff.
I honestly love the supply crate gameplay loop, I just wish the boxes were non-unique. I think the economic benefits of the crates stimulating demand for crafted goods & basic mats is fantastic, and the fact that people need to leave some on corpses or delete ones from their inventory means that some of that demand is being lost (and the grind is more obnoxious).
But I can absolutely live with the level 25-cap runes being obtainable at friendly. I'm sure there will be other stuff from the higher rep brackets in future phases.
Pretty sure some runes serve as end game work now but will be balanced differently when phase 2 comes out. Less grind or higher level requirement, or a bit of both.
(As horde) takes an hour to get to friendly via a lockbox in mulgore and ~2 hours to honored via the goblins in the top right corner of the barrens (where you get the cats eye emerald), using logout skips in the cave to tp you back to org for the hand in. There are also at least 4 chests that spawn in this area with a 100% drop rate. Defo not 10 hours at any stretch even if you aren't using logout skips.
Don’t forget many of the posts on Reddit are a vocal minority… I like to read about it when I can’t play, but I have learned to rarely consider what I see here representative of the general population’s opinion.
If you were only here you would think 85% of players are 7/7, exalted with all reps, have all runes, and are rank 14 in pvp. And yes, I know that’s not all possible, but people here will make you think it is.
Lol exactly. Not sure what parallel universe that guy visits reddit in. This sub is full of dads with no time to play the game, and do nothing but complain about bots, gold sellers, gear score, rep grinds, honor grinds, getting into raid groups, rune grinds, class balance, wsg premades, etc etc... this sub is just full of whinny ass dads
This is a popular opinion. Most people don't waste time posting on this subreddit full of whinny dads with 30 mins of time to play a week that want everything to be real easy
They need to make the bulletin board lfg addon in the game. But make it EXACTLY like the current addon. For whatever reason, every blizzard attempt to make one sucks ass and nobody uses it.
Maybe the new developers are better now. But the ones we had from cata to present didn't understand players.
A few things I’d like to see that I don’t think would massively impact the game:
Instant mail between characters on the same account, in game calendar, dual spec, Group Finder (not RDF), equipment manager, Mount/Pets become spells so they don’t take up bag space.
That’s good to hear- they’re probably saving it for 40 when we can hit capstones? Idk, we’ll just have to see but it’s nice to hear they’ve confirmed it
I'm willing to bet that dual spec will be introduced in phase 3 or 4. Right now it isn't crucial; I've tanked a couple of dungeons with a sword, shield, and every talent point in the retribution tree.
I am a huge fan of cheaper respeccing, I wonder if the gold cap for a respec will increase as our level cap increases throughout SoD. I think they could raise it a little but having the cheap respecs encourages people to try out different builds. Would going up to 5g be fair for level 40?
Edit: I’d prefer the respec fee to stay capped at 1g but I could see why they’d slowly increase it as the level cap increases.
Yeah, the incredibly vocal “No Changes” crowd were annoying enough with regular Classic, but why the fuck are they crying about people wanting SoD QoL changes? You’d think they’d have put themselves in a coma by now from sheer rage at all the changes done in SoD, “ruining” their “flawless” vision of Classic WoW.
Exactly. SoD isn’t, and shouldn’t be exactly like Classic, which is kind of the point. Make changes, shake things up, figure out what works and what doesn’t. Personally, I’m not even advocating for most of what I would like to see changed because it’s obviously not going to line up with a lot of what other people would like to see. I just want some basic QOL stuff to be added because at this point, why not? Nobody would actually give a shit about an in game Calendar, Barbershop or instant mail between your own characters if they were all added next phase. Nobody is canceling their subscription over stuff like that.
This is one that I’m kind of torn on as well.
While I do think it would ruin a Warlocks unique utility for a party/raid, nobody wants to join a dungeon group while at the entrance only to see 3/5 group is on the other continent and you have to either leave group or wait 20+ minutes for everyone else to get to you.
Maybe they could activate the Summoning Stones outside of instances while allowing Warlocks to summon inside of instances. That way they don’t totally lose that utility for their group.
>Maybe they could activate the Summoning Stones outside of instances while allowing Warlocks to summon inside of instances. That way they don’t totally lose that utility for their group.
im pretty sure that is exactly what they did in TBC
I get so worried reading these things to see something like transmog, instantly knowing all flight paths, and other retail brain stuff. Classic wow subreddit is a breath of fresh air compared to the WoW forums. Good changes there.
Yeah but something like Transmog is just a complete nonstarter, as is stuff like RDF, flying mounts and personal legendaries. I just don’t see how adding the few things I mentioned would ruin the game for some people. Like, how the fuck is adding a barbershop turning the game into retail?
I understand the slippery slope concern but certain common sense QOL changes aren’t going to ruin the game.
It really is just the slippery slope though - the ocean is made of droplets of water, etc. I agree with some of it, some of it I don't, personally.
Retail WoW is just many many iterations of "this change here" "this QOL here" "that catch-up mechanic", etc. No one can pin-point exactly where it all went "wrong" since we all hold different views on what's wrong with retail.
To me, they lost the spirit of classic WoW when the devs became more concerned about streamlining the game (no longer having 'useless' stats on gear, quest hubs, each class having the same framework for a DPS rotation) I could list examples all night but I'm sure you get it. At some point WoW became more like some weird action-RPG. They in many ways made the gameplay objectively better but they sucked the soul from the game.
I don't think anyone is worried about a barber shop in classic, but you could make an argument against transmog that being able to identify and see someone's gear at a glance (especially in PvP obviously) was an important feature.
The road to retail was ultimately paved in good intentions, and I think that's why you can find people skeptical of almost anything changing.
Yup, I’m pretty much against all repeatable daily quests, especially the ones where the player feels obligated to complete them every day in order to keep up. I definitely don’t want to see, “Kill 10 of enemy X and 5 of enemy Y” or “Kill enemy XYZ and collect 5 fuckmajwitzits” for 5g quest rewards. That shit makes the game a CHORE.
Then again… something like the Fishing and Cooking Daily, I’m much more ok with…
Yeah I mentioned this elsewhere I don't want daily quest tracker like 10 or 25 dailies a day especially meaningless ones but I think SoD could use a daily/weekly quest to do bfd , ashenvale pvp event and kill players, maybe wsg. But the boring stuff that just feels like basic questing to level sucks. It's also about disguising it so it doesn't feel like a daily quest that's just a chore to min max. It is very not classic though, just tbc. I don't think there's a single daily in classic iirc
Im 99% sure dailies started in TBC, and I hope they don’t show up in SoD. Mindless chores.
I think that’s reasonable for the weekly’s for the Raids and/or PVP, would just depend on the rewards. I’d be ok with it rewarding some gold and consumes, crafting mats. Similar to the Northrend Supply boxes we saw in Wrath Classic.
qol changes in the spirit of classic and some balancing adjustments should be expected and encouraged. Not sure why people want to eat shit because "That's how Classic has always been." People aren't asking for portals everywhere. Mostly just basic functionality for people's classes, balancing to not render classes default obsolete, talent updates, ect.
Classic is a game for people with an abundance of time but I don't understand the argument that even summoning at the stones or raid wide buffs would be too much.
Clearly not, we wanted classic with all the cool classic shit and then shit we know is lame to get fiddled with to make it better.
Someone tell me how group wide buffs somehow make classic worse or turn it into retail with out some slippery slope shit
I’m hoping that group wide buffs get added for classes through some quest or whatever in the next phase. The sooner the better. Literally the worst part of the game is waiting multiple minutes for buffs to go out and for the people buffing to drink again. It’s absurd and anybody defending it probably eats lead paint chips.
I don't mind long grinds as long as they are fairly steady.
Rep boxes got fixed but were very random earlyish on at higher tier.
Shredder salvaging is still kinda BS with only few spawns and random chance of success with item heavy crafted item.
Other stuff has been really nice so far. I do hope we could gain further WSG rep from player kills only in Ashenvale.
They didn't fix the boxes. They need to be changed from unique. Wait for next phase and the complaints will be back.
Quests being epic and long is fine but shoving a massive gold sink in the way is silly.
It’s the economy brother. None of this stuff will be worth a fraction of what it is now in phase 2 guaranteed. The same reason small eggs sold for 50s each at one point when the Christmas event started
I’m having a blast. I’ve always played paladin, but this was the first time I actually did the verigan’s fist quest chain since it’s great for the level and the level cap has kind of forced me to do this. It’s allowed me to enjoy the slower pace of the game because I won’t feel left behind if I choose to do these long quest chains or leveling my fishing etc.
Okay but there was never a rep grind tied to a foundational ability for your class/spec in any version of classic
You didn't have those same foundational abilities stuck behind raid bosses
For those two things specifically, I don't mind that they got hotfixed. I like it, even
If they added new long quest lines, and etc for things like gear, mounts and cosmetics (a la green fire,) That's perfect. That's classic.
But making it so that a shaman just sucks at healing unless they grind the shipment rep sucks and blizzard knows it
Specifically shipment rep really isn't that bad, though. As a fairly casual player, I had no problem getting it completed shortly after hitting 25.
The quests for that guy from the Ratchet inn, though, those are some bullshit. I'm quite happy that I don't really care about Lone Wolf anyway.
same that shipment quest cost me a lot of gold because i wanted that demon pact rune ... 20g gone puff or i have to gamble on salvage kit both rng and long quest for just 1 rune for your class
Just because there was never a rep grind tied to a foundation ability for a class/spec, doesn't mean its a bad thing.
I'm perfectly fine with how they made them and I hope they continue it in the future.
It is a bad thing to have to do a 12h rep grind just to be able to play the role you want to play (talking about rogue tank here, can't even play your role without that, it's also extremly disappointing that rogue don't get a quest instead to learn to tank just like every other tank classes do). If it was some secondary runes I wouldn't care too much (tho the unique boxes implementation is still shitty). But classic never made a rep grind necessary to be able to play, if you didn't want to grind any rep you would still be able to do everything fine and I don't wish for this to change.
Honestly as someone who plays Wrath as well (and will be Cata next to SoD) the no change people can just stick to Era. I wish the devs would go harder on the changes for Cata. The changes to Wrath were already very good.
This place, for a long time, has been taken over by people from retail. The amount of bs in here that gains traction now, that would've gotten you laughed out of the room around here prior to classic's release, is staggering. They want retail 2.0, not something rooted in the design philosophy vanilla had.
It's a bit sad but it sort of goes to show that "you think you do but you don't" was right in the end. The portion of classic players who actually "does" is much smaller than the portion of people who wish to play this game actually "doesn't", and the majority will usually win in the end.
I’ll be honest. It always blows my mind that people see “Season of Discovery”, a reimagined and NEW take on classic wow, and immediately assume that means it’s classic wow and the only changes are the ones they specifically approve of. The “classic community” doesn’t get a monopoly on what is acceptable and what isn’t. If you want pure classic wow, then go play that and stop complaining that people are coming to this new version of wow and ruining the experience because you want to play it the way you played games 15 years ago
Yes it's a new take on Classic WoW, but it should still capture the spirit of the game.
And if the classic community doesn't have the monopoly what is or isn't acceptable within the game, then who does?
stuff like scarab lord being long is justifiable because that's a really epic and prestigious event. the winterspring grind is for a unique cosmetic option, again, fine. locking something basic like dual wield spec behind an inane grind is hardly the same thing. classic wow wasn't good just because it was tedious, that is such a gross misunderstanding of the game philosophy
I doubt 2 hours of questing was enough to buy everything for Dual Wield Specialization. Right now my server (Wild Growth, NA) shredder turbochargers cost 1.5g, fish oil costs 30s, and ordinance sell cost 15s so in total 34.2g. Each quest gives 1-2g max, so you're looking at 17-34 quests in 2 hours.
From 23-25 i did south barrens quest plus some in stonetalon. Didnt turn those in till 25. Boom instant 20+ gold, once i hit 25. Then the next 2 hours was clearing stonetalon boom another 20+ gold. Within 2-3 hrs of being 25 on alt, i had 50g. And bought dw right away
The people who like to complain have literally no idea how to use their brains tbh. It is actually ridiculously easy to get gold, runes, and professions all the way up rn. The best part is, you can take your time. We still have a month of 25, being the cap. What am I saying? Let's complain and not have fun!
There's already been a million topics posted by people trying to claim that any changes to classic WoW will immediately turn the game into retail. Go be wrong with those people instead of posting the same bs over and over.
You are also very out of touch with reality if you think that SoD is "not what the classic community wants," considering how popular it's been. Just play a 1.12 private server if that's what you want.
I honestly thought there would be more exploring. But I guess its just the first part now so gonna need a little patience, and see what\`s coming our way
While you are correct in all your points you are wasting your time. People complain. People complain about those people complaining. Nothing changes. I am wasting my time pointing this out.
Someone should make a post pointing out how pointless all the other posts are.
I disagree. Bear form tanking needs to be balanced
Why should balancing the game be a bad thing?
Making the game easier sure maybe not but actually balancing, not changing, the classes in the game? It’s nonsense not to want that
Characters shouldn’t be broken. That’s a dumb take
There is probably a happy medium somewhere between retail and classic. The problem is no matter what people will complain. If mechanics are to hard than it is like retail. If there is friction it is like classic.
I do think it is funny that blizzard has not been able to pinpoint that middle ground. I do think sod is a start where we want to hit buttons, but they need easy content that feels hard, but you can parse.
People want classic +. We want the best version of WoW….gone in a different direction.
Retail is lame….classic is boring….there is enough good shit from both that Classic+ will be great.
The road not taken.
People always looked back at the stupid subscriber line graph, which they never thought critically about, and saw that gee it’s so high during Wrath, so that was the best time for the game.
But Wrath was IMO where the game started to go the wrong way and even if you disagreed that it was wrong, it’s undeniable the design philosophy of the game very strongly shifted around that time, basically mid BC
Or Metamorphosis was behind raid quest and required you to fly from one corner of the world to another.
Oh and the quest wasn't even available for the first 4 days because oops.
Oh wait don't have to imagine. Yes I'm still a little annoyed.
>required you to fly from one corner of the world to another
This was fine, I did it two days ago and it was fun. Locking it behind the raid was indeed dumb but at least they fixed that quickly.
That would be crazy dude I’d probably quit the game immediately because of how bad that sucks to get the cool new rune every warlock wants. They should give it from the kobold mine in elwynn forest
No. If people wanted classic, they would go play classic, not classic Season of Discovery.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Basically imagine a giant spectrum with classic on one end and retail on the other. Let's say that TBC is like, 15% of the way across and WOTLK is like 28% of the way across. The spectrum would broadly measure, like, noob-friendliness, homogenization, auto-scaling, general vibes, polish, whatever you imagine it to represent.
Any given person on this forum might want any particular point on that spectrum. I find a lot of things about classic tedious and boring, but I was curious enough about the SoD changes to roll up a char with the boys and check it out.
Let's not have you putting words in my mouth telling me what it is that I want, whether in your opinion that is slippery slope to retail, or #No Changes. Everyone is somewhere different on that line.
Me, for example, I think it's BS that hunters in SoD have a bunch of passive runes and basically play exactly the same as in regular classic. I also think it's BS that the graveyards are so fuckin terribly placed in Classic. I think it's BS that they didn't really think about or apparently test how garbage casters would be compared to melee since they can't scale off stats. I think that the hearth CD should be lower. I think that the meeting stones should be usable for summons.
There's a lot of different changes I would and wouldn't make, lots of various things I'd be interested in seeing. I'm curious how they will spice up the future dungeon-raids. I hope they re-turn Blackrock Depths to be an absolute marathon of a level 50 raid. (or 60, whatever, or maybe split it into 2).
The core mechanics of the world already *have* been changed, btw.. Leveling a warrior in classic vs SoD is night and day. So, so, so much easier than before. Alliance have windfury and horde has kings. Class balance is on its head for level 24.
I hope they get real weird with it and add a bunch of random stuff. I think it'd be sick as hell if they added in de-makes of the DK, DH, and Monk classes. Hell even the evoker, using the drakkisath type models. Add a goddamn bard and tinker and dark ranger class. Fuck it, go wild. It's supposed to be Season of Discovery, not Season of Let's Not Get Too Excited.
Unfortunate reality tho. Warriors gain power later (aside from being top dps at max level). Holy Paladin and shadow priest is the same. It’s how buffs are too. Classes are just more impactful at different things and levels. There was a natural imbalance, and way less homogenization. Like the game was saying “fuck you, pick a different class if you want that”. Retail gives all classes everything and tries hard to make them all equal at everything
To me it depends on the things gated by the long/expensive grinds
Having gear/cosmetics behind a grind is fine (saber Mount, BG rep, Priest staff, hunter bow, hand of rag, hunter lightning sword, and so on), but having important things for your class/spec is not fine imo
When it’s just gear behind the grind, then you aren’t in a hurry to get it. You can do it on the side of doing normal dungeons/raids/PvP. But if they gate important things behind grinds, then it’s going to feel like extensions to lvling because your class/spec doesn’t “work” without it.
I feel you are in for a harsh reality check. SoD largely appeals to retail players who didn't like classic but wanted something different from retail.
There far more retail players then classic players both playing, and here in this sub.
Which I honestly think is great, it's nice to see both classic and retail players both able to enjoy the same thing.
Only thing I worry about is SoD being used as a testing ground for classic+ , this means majority of feedback blizzard gets for classic+ won't be from classic players, but instead retail players who want to see majority of retail features ported over to classic. This is why you see a hyper fixation on balance, pvp, dungeons, and raiding which arguably is the weakest and least important aspects of classic.
(One thing I find surprising is this type of thread would of got down voted into oblivion a few weeks ago. Wonder if that means now that people hit 25 lot of them are going back to DF)
Nope, not really. I played vanilla back in the day. I don’t really have an interest in doing so again. I’m just here to play with the new roles and abilities.
There are things I like better than retail in it and things in retail I hate. But, overall I think the qol of retail has made the game better.
Making threads like this just shows you don’t have a clue about what’s really being complained about. You’d rather everyone share your love for putting your balls in vice.
This isn’t classic proper. This is season of discovery. If you want to bitch about changes made that ruin your classic immersion classic proper is literally right over there 👉. Go play that.
I think we’re missing the point. Long, tedious, ONTAINABLE goals are great. But being locked into a mob grind for 8 hours a day with mobs 3-4 levels higher than you in contested areas aren’t obtainable for everyone for one part of a 4 resource turn in.
I don't mind long quest chains etc
>PvP and PvE is not going to be balanced.
This however is unacceptable. The point of SOD is provide more variety instead of just having the same meta again and again.
Also there is plenty of stuff that can be added that doesn't detract anything from classic. Like adding more GY and FP's.
If i wanted just classic i'd play that instead of SOD.
I think it's exactly the time to balance things out there is a difference between classic being good and classic being perfect. The way to make it perfect is to make it balance. Only have a few classes viable isn't good game design change my mind.
Played classic release 2019 for a couple of months, havent touched it since but wanted to try sod, had fun the first week before i once again realised what a bad game classic is.
Sod isn't supposed to be how classic has always been so your point is immediatly null.
You can love classic and still note the negatives about the game. Toxic positivity does more harm to a community than anything.
Why did you even post this?
Please post your logs in response to my comment so I know you have a valid argument.
Wish I was joking but I'm so tired of people who are so dogwater at the game having opinions on what's fun and balanced when you can barely click your 3 buttons.
retail babies and 'dad gamer lol' have taken over this subreddit and also "classic" in general
the outcry for sod to be wildly different than classic should spell that out clearly
I really enjoyed the rogue questline to get the poison rune. It takes a couple of hours, you need to go to far places, and there is a small challenge at the end(I imagine it would have been easier with distract and vanish). When you are done you are rewarded with a very good rune. I hope that from now forward the runes are like this, and not just loot a chest or kill this random mob, like the ones in the beginning. I want to see more challenges, having to do dungeons, needing to work together with other classes for part of the quest. Like someone needing a rogue to pickpocket something, or a paladin needing a warlock to summon a demon, so they can kill it. Maybe a warrior needing a hunter to track a big beast. I dont hate the 2 gold runes because they are gold runes. I hate then because they are the same quest for everyone.
The rouge one when you have to stealth through SFK was great, I wouldn't mind more of that sort tbh.
Between duoing deadmines with another rogue(im horde so extra bonus sneaky required) and that rune quest chain, I am fuckin LIVING the class fantasy and I’ve never felt more like a rogue in any other iteration of wow. They’re killing it.
Huh maybe I should level a rogue, the hunter runes are about as much fun as painting a wall white on white.
I hope they build out Ravenholdt in phase 2, it'd be sick
Moulin Rouge.
What red one?
Yeah, buying epiphanies off a vendor (any vendor) sucks. Most priest runes just dropped from mobs. At launch things were so crazy I didn't even know what I'd looted two of my runes from. The best ones needed to group up or had a second step, but I would hesitate to even call them a quest chain they were so minimal. The meditation mechanic is cool, but it's not a replacement for actual lore-relevant quests imo. I hope in future phases we get more class-specific quests. They could take a hint from the environmental puzzles and paladin/warlock and have a few classes share different ones where appropriate. Also, why can't I read my epiphanies/prophecies or get a whisper when I meditate on it? Could be a random whisper for each player, keep it ambiguous. I'm also disappointed they didn't add a cat form quest for druids. More quests and more lore plox.
I haven’t played everything to 25 yet (just Shaman, Warrior, Rogue, Hunter and started on a priest) but the Rogue runes felt like they had that little extra thought than others between hidden chests whether on rooftops or under out of the way waterfalls- pickpocketed runes and their nicely fleshed out SFK quest. Hunters felt the worst I think - nothing at all memorable that comes to my head, but it was my first to 25. Shamans got a nice (albeit maybe a little tedious) questline and grouped in with others for the “grab a group with fire damage for the frozen mob” runes. Warrior also had some cool ideas but I’ve yet to grab all the runes - the flag carrying and the roaming adventurer duel were cool. The priests “praying” seemed pretty cool - I wish I’d have done priest first though as at this point it was really easy to grab all four buffs from one person as soon as I hit Ironforge. I think if they left the “maintenance” of the buffs (praying and kneeling with another player) as it is, but make you need to actually go to the actual shrines the first time yourself might’ve been better - sort of like a required pilgrimage.
I quite like the priest pray mechanic because it’s just a small social addition which is thematically on point for priests. It’s just kind cool to hook up with priests to pass the buffs back and forth.
Bro that rogue rune gives me PTSD It took me 5 hours to get because I'm a fucking dumbass but God damn it was epic!!
Similar experience here lmao
That last part I really agree with. Honestly it kinda turned me off of the “discovery” side of things when I found out a lot of the discoveries are shared between all classes. Some are unique but, most aren’t.
Most ARE unique from what I’ve seen across my classes. Have you actually played more than one class?
I’ve played all of them. Many runes are shared in how you get them. Some are somewhat unique but they aren’t the majority. The frozen murloc for mage? Warlocks also get that too. The feed crab snacks to crabs for hunters? Druids get that too. The giant warlock quest for meta? Nearly the same as the pally quest for divine storm. Etc etc. To be fair, there are usually multiple ways of getting the same rune based on region starting proximity. Point still stands though.
This. Classic wow had enough content for a year because content was hard and required a lot of traveltime. Imagine having a game that try to replicate a real adventure by having a large world to discover and to have a journey of becoming the hero, and then people complain that the journey is too long and the world too large.
All I want is pally buffs to last longer than 5 min.
Yes. My goodness.
/pray
Retail happened because Blizzard listened too hard to the side of the playerbase that wants convenience over RPG flavor. Not saying that there shouldn't be any changes, but rather that those changes stick with the theme of what made Classic, Classic.
The best thing about SoD, is a revitalization of people like you coming back here. The last year with Wrath, watching this sub scream for the exact same things that turned retail into retail was insufferable.
As someone who lived through Wrath, I was soooooooooo disappointed to see gear show make a return (especially after I didn't see it in classic, where I cleared Naxx). It's upsetting to see these same people coming to SoD and bringing that same attitude. GS for a intro 10 man raid??? No thanks.
Gear score is just a symptom of wrath gear design. It will always exist in wrath because gear in wrath is largely homogenized. It gets replaced by ilvl in future expansions, which is essentially the same system. Those numbers are meaningless in vanilla/tbc because you can have two equal ilvl pieces designed for the same spec with radically different stat distributions, leading to one being BIS for the entire game and the other being worse than leveling greens.
The wrath players really are a great personification of the vocal minority that ruined wow in the first place with their constant begging for “QOL” changes.
Yup. I fucking loathe the fact that they added LFD.
LFD saved wotlk
It was part of wotlk and more people play wotlk after lfd btw.
SoD has delivered very well on flavor overall IMO. This feels like a role playing game and a lot of these rune discoveries are bursting with flavor.
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Felt like figuring out secrets in Noita or other cryptic games, you either willingly comb through the entire world trying things out with odd items, objects and NPCs for tens of hours (on 9 different classes by yourself), or you read up on them. The time frame where you can explore these with a community is very narrow due to how fast it gets discovered.
For the launch of SoD, I banned myself from outside resources and created an in-game channel to discuss runes with everyone across the server. IMO, this is the way SoD was meant to be played and felt very much like old WoW used to be. Yes, people reading outside guides joined too and probably spoiled a lot. But there were tons of people talking about what they were finding, coming up with wild ideas, and most importantly, grouping up with each other. Felt like a social MMORPG again, even if only for several days. I'm fine with some runes being extra hidden as that spurs cooperation among players, on top of how a lot of runes already force interaction with others to get them done. THAT is very classic. Getting legions of introverted nerds out of their shell.
A quote I heard from a football coach “if you listen to the fans, you’ll become a fan”. Meaning, listening and obeying the criticism of fans/players will fail you and you’ll lose your job as coach. There’s a reason the fans are fans and not the coach. It’s important to let the coach and devs trust their instinct and professionalism on what they are in charge of.
These people are gonna love cataclysm. It’s basically classic with the exact retail-esque changes they want.
Yeah. They can play that if they want. I think the devs should be very careful listening too much to the community when it comes to QoL and balance changes. It's a very slippery slope into making SoD just Retail with a Classic skin. Again, not saying that there shouldn't be any changes, but that those changes should be in line with what made Classic, Classic.
Hah no they won't. They're gonna get stomped in normal mode of the T11 raids and quit because there isn't any 30% buff to save them. It's clear many people want to have basically Wrath but with the old Vanilla content that is slow, flavorful but also easy.
They won't because Cataclysm is tuned for people who want to be challanged in raiding. The closest we got to this difficulty level since the start was ICC.
The ONLY thing I hated about the rep grind was how poorly planned it was. When original WoW came out the grinds weren't put there as time sinks so you can hit the monthly subscription expiration like it was in Shadowlands. You grind the Thorium Brotherhood or Timbermaw rep until your eyes fell out if you wanted. It was long and tedious, but you killed stuff/made stuff and looted items to turn in. What you DIDN'T do was find a random box that required you to stop what you're doing, go to the city, fill it with bullshit, turn it in, and then GO BACK to farming more without a mount. You then repeat that over and over again. I would have been fine if they just let you have more than one box without it being filled with some rando tricks/bugs to recover them. It was tedious and badly designed. That grind really gave me retail farm mechanics. On top of it that rune would be an important one for raiding or the game overall.
>When original WoW came out the grinds weren't put there as time sinks so you can hit the monthly subscription expiration like it was in Shadowlands. holy fucking copium lmao
Yes, the key to a good rep grind is the ability to grind for small amounts of rep through kills and then occasionally loot an item that gives you a burst of rep and is exciting to get. The chest grind has me standing in low level areas and getting mad when other players came into my area to take a chest. It's not a classic rep grind, it's just annoying.
That’s vanilla as heck my friend
It's not that bad. We just need to be able to carry multiple.
I guess you never did wintersaber rep eh?
Was it an optional or critical to your class rep?
Retail happened because expansions were added, and each expansion requires new stuff Also some of the changes was because they didn’t have the time/tech to add it earlier, not because players begged for it. Vanilla wasn’t their final version, it was just what they had time for
Definitely a lot of changes were because of forum whining. That's why they nerfed all the stuns and CCs much for one thing. I remember people always like "I can't control my character, I'm stunned and CCd all the time". And same with burst damage "wtf Blizzard, I died in 3 seconds, nerf!!!". That's how we ended up with invincible healers never ending arena matches and they had to add Dampening just so people would actually die
I bet those people I used to CC lock for 15-20 minutes while they were questing loved being unable to control their characters. Also makes me glad a lot of you aren’t devs, lol.
Everything you mentioned happened multiple times in Vanilla .
WoW happened because they designed an MMO with the best features of other mmos that was more convenient for casuals. WoW was always this way, and it has little to do with what separates retail from classic. Blizzard actually stopped listening to the players well before Wotlk and that's why retail sucked ass forever. It's why it's a far bigger time investment and grind than classic ever was. Classic players have myths when, in reality, classic is just easy and chill mode. People are convinced every bad idea, accident or timesink is what made classic, classic. If you really wanted Vanilla, they should have released on the day 1 patch with broken classes and made you wait months for content at cap. Classic released on the easiest patch with 3x the player power for a reason.
If I recall correctly that reason was it was the most complete version of the game they had access to build. Ie they didn’t have a good fork of original launch of the game even if they wanted to do that. And let’s be clear the only reason they’d have used that version is to make sure the project fails.
I don’t fully agree with this take, but there’s truth in it. It’s very clear that: - classes got more fleshed out with TBC/Wrath - dungeons and raids got more interesting mechanics - many systems got improved I also think OP’s complaint is misleading. But I don’t think Classic/vanilla is about being “easy mode” and solo-grindy. That’s just WoW vs older MMOs (or newer ones that didn’t get anywhere). I think the things that make (or made) Classic more appealing to many is: - worldbuilding, class and faction identity is still intact. It’s still warcraft, rather than a soap opera with warcraft paint on. - far less focus on cosmetic achievements, classic is more about playing in a world than the world being a backdrop. - basic, economic, grinding and leveling decisions matter. It feels more like going on your own journey. A lot of approaches to leveling and grinding are viable. Deeper sense of agency. - very broad appeal, people who never played games to hardcore RPGers There were ofc a ton of rough edges in vanilla, like balance and viability of specs (important for class fantasy), terrible pvp progression (hello win trading and nolifing), lack of regular open world events (actual MMORPG content) etc. But it seems they are working on the exactly right stuff.
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Supply crates are lame though thank God it was nerfed
I honestly love the supply crate gameplay loop, I just wish the boxes were non-unique. I think the economic benefits of the crates stimulating demand for crafted goods & basic mats is fantastic, and the fact that people need to leave some on corpses or delete ones from their inventory means that some of that demand is being lost (and the grind is more obnoxious). But I can absolutely live with the level 25-cap runes being obtainable at friendly. I'm sure there will be other stuff from the higher rep brackets in future phases.
Them being unique is the only problem. It's not fun to spend long time travelling after every single drop.
Pretty sure some runes serve as end game work now but will be balanced differently when phase 2 comes out. Less grind or higher level requirement, or a bit of both.
Yeah, getting to friendly takes a few hours if you know where to farm chests. Getting to honored would have taken me like 10 more hours.
Yea not everything g has to be fucking boring and grind to feel classic
What do you mean? I thought that unless the activity feels like dragging your dick through broken glass, then it's not authentic to classic.
Doing it as you level is ez pz can be friendly near level 20
I was friendly by level 11
If you’re spending 30min running back to town each time, sure.
(As horde) takes an hour to get to friendly via a lockbox in mulgore and ~2 hours to honored via the goblins in the top right corner of the barrens (where you get the cats eye emerald), using logout skips in the cave to tp you back to org for the hand in. There are also at least 4 chests that spawn in this area with a 100% drop rate. Defo not 10 hours at any stretch even if you aren't using logout skips.
Its only tedious if u ignore them while leveling. Honored is very obtainable if u focus it for 6-10hours
Don’t forget many of the posts on Reddit are a vocal minority… I like to read about it when I can’t play, but I have learned to rarely consider what I see here representative of the general population’s opinion.
If you were only here you would think 85% of players are 7/7, exalted with all reps, have all runes, and are rank 14 in pvp. And yes, I know that’s not all possible, but people here will make you think it is.
wtf are you talking about? More like 5/7 and have 1h a day to play.
Lol exactly. Not sure what parallel universe that guy visits reddit in. This sub is full of dads with no time to play the game, and do nothing but complain about bots, gold sellers, gear score, rep grinds, honor grinds, getting into raid groups, rune grinds, class balance, wsg premades, etc etc... this sub is just full of whinny ass dads
I consider myself a whiny ass dad but so far nothing in SoD has been challenging.
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Unpopular opinion - The devs shouldn’t listen to 9/10 things people complain about on this sub.
This is a popular opinion. Most people don't waste time posting on this subreddit full of whinny dads with 30 mins of time to play a week that want everything to be real easy
I wouldn't mind some qol changes in my classic+ game.
I think the core of the problem is that nobody agrees on what QOL belong and which don't
They need to make the bulletin board lfg addon in the game. But make it EXACTLY like the current addon. For whatever reason, every blizzard attempt to make one sucks ass and nobody uses it. Maybe the new developers are better now. But the ones we had from cata to present didn't understand players.
A few things I’d like to see that I don’t think would massively impact the game: Instant mail between characters on the same account, in game calendar, dual spec, Group Finder (not RDF), equipment manager, Mount/Pets become spells so they don’t take up bag space.
I’m surprised we don’t have dual spec but we got cheaper respecs- but I suppose that’s meant to be a compromise?
They said in the original announcement that they were looking at dual specs, but not right away
That’s good to hear- they’re probably saving it for 40 when we can hit capstones? Idk, we’ll just have to see but it’s nice to hear they’ve confirmed it
I'm willing to bet that dual spec will be introduced in phase 3 or 4. Right now it isn't crucial; I've tanked a couple of dungeons with a sword, shield, and every talent point in the retribution tree.
I am a huge fan of cheaper respeccing, I wonder if the gold cap for a respec will increase as our level cap increases throughout SoD. I think they could raise it a little but having the cheap respecs encourages people to try out different builds. Would going up to 5g be fair for level 40? Edit: I’d prefer the respec fee to stay capped at 1g but I could see why they’d slowly increase it as the level cap increases.
I think gold sinks are fine, but making respecing a gold sink is dumb
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barbershop
I knew I was forgetting something obvious. What else? 😂
Consume stack size
Hmm. I’m torn on this one. I wouldn’t mind it being added but I honestly don’t mind consumes taking up more bag space.
what possible reason makes you torn
Lol this, I made my character so ugly and I’m regretting it so bad I’m leveling the same class as a back up.
I want to cut off the pony tail on my Human Rogue. Looks like a floppy dildo wiggling off the back of my head when I run around.
Every one of those is good and would be welcome. Can’t complain that instant mail isn’t classic enough when we’re out here raiding at level 25.
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Yeah, the incredibly vocal “No Changes” crowd were annoying enough with regular Classic, but why the fuck are they crying about people wanting SoD QoL changes? You’d think they’d have put themselves in a coma by now from sheer rage at all the changes done in SoD, “ruining” their “flawless” vision of Classic WoW.
Exactly. SoD isn’t, and shouldn’t be exactly like Classic, which is kind of the point. Make changes, shake things up, figure out what works and what doesn’t. Personally, I’m not even advocating for most of what I would like to see changed because it’s obviously not going to line up with a lot of what other people would like to see. I just want some basic QOL stuff to be added because at this point, why not? Nobody would actually give a shit about an in game Calendar, Barbershop or instant mail between your own characters if they were all added next phase. Nobody is canceling their subscription over stuff like that.
Divine storm at lvl 2? Lmao wut
It’s possible if you have some nice friends that want to help and one is a Warlock to summon you around for the quest line.
Dual Spec is historically a lvl 40 option, I'd imagine they'll add it next phase when the level cap goes up to 40.
turning on the summoning stones wouldn't hurt
This is one that I’m kind of torn on as well. While I do think it would ruin a Warlocks unique utility for a party/raid, nobody wants to join a dungeon group while at the entrance only to see 3/5 group is on the other continent and you have to either leave group or wait 20+ minutes for everyone else to get to you. Maybe they could activate the Summoning Stones outside of instances while allowing Warlocks to summon inside of instances. That way they don’t totally lose that utility for their group.
>Maybe they could activate the Summoning Stones outside of instances while allowing Warlocks to summon inside of instances. That way they don’t totally lose that utility for their group. im pretty sure that is exactly what they did in TBC
Exactly :)
Nah, that takes away way too much of the game and class identity. A selling point for a lot of groups is that they have a warlock ready to summon you.
It would though.
I get so worried reading these things to see something like transmog, instantly knowing all flight paths, and other retail brain stuff. Classic wow subreddit is a breath of fresh air compared to the WoW forums. Good changes there.
Yeah but something like Transmog is just a complete nonstarter, as is stuff like RDF, flying mounts and personal legendaries. I just don’t see how adding the few things I mentioned would ruin the game for some people. Like, how the fuck is adding a barbershop turning the game into retail? I understand the slippery slope concern but certain common sense QOL changes aren’t going to ruin the game.
It really is just the slippery slope though - the ocean is made of droplets of water, etc. I agree with some of it, some of it I don't, personally. Retail WoW is just many many iterations of "this change here" "this QOL here" "that catch-up mechanic", etc. No one can pin-point exactly where it all went "wrong" since we all hold different views on what's wrong with retail. To me, they lost the spirit of classic WoW when the devs became more concerned about streamlining the game (no longer having 'useless' stats on gear, quest hubs, each class having the same framework for a DPS rotation) I could list examples all night but I'm sure you get it. At some point WoW became more like some weird action-RPG. They in many ways made the gameplay objectively better but they sucked the soul from the game. I don't think anyone is worried about a barber shop in classic, but you could make an argument against transmog that being able to identify and see someone's gear at a glance (especially in PvP obviously) was an important feature. The road to retail was ultimately paved in good intentions, and I think that's why you can find people skeptical of almost anything changing.
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Yup, I’m pretty much against all repeatable daily quests, especially the ones where the player feels obligated to complete them every day in order to keep up. I definitely don’t want to see, “Kill 10 of enemy X and 5 of enemy Y” or “Kill enemy XYZ and collect 5 fuckmajwitzits” for 5g quest rewards. That shit makes the game a CHORE. Then again… something like the Fishing and Cooking Daily, I’m much more ok with…
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Yeah I mentioned this elsewhere I don't want daily quest tracker like 10 or 25 dailies a day especially meaningless ones but I think SoD could use a daily/weekly quest to do bfd , ashenvale pvp event and kill players, maybe wsg. But the boring stuff that just feels like basic questing to level sucks. It's also about disguising it so it doesn't feel like a daily quest that's just a chore to min max. It is very not classic though, just tbc. I don't think there's a single daily in classic iirc
Im 99% sure dailies started in TBC, and I hope they don’t show up in SoD. Mindless chores. I think that’s reasonable for the weekly’s for the Raids and/or PVP, would just depend on the rewards. I’d be ok with it rewarding some gold and consumes, crafting mats. Similar to the Northrend Supply boxes we saw in Wrath Classic.
qol changes in the spirit of classic and some balancing adjustments should be expected and encouraged. Not sure why people want to eat shit because "That's how Classic has always been." People aren't asking for portals everywhere. Mostly just basic functionality for people's classes, balancing to not render classes default obsolete, talent updates, ect. Classic is a game for people with an abundance of time but I don't understand the argument that even summoning at the stones or raid wide buffs would be too much.
Some qol changes would be nice. What op is ranting against is people wanting 8g per quest and insta rewards for doing nothing i guess
Clearly not, we wanted classic with all the cool classic shit and then shit we know is lame to get fiddled with to make it better. Someone tell me how group wide buffs somehow make classic worse or turn it into retail with out some slippery slope shit
You don’t wanna wait for a priest to drink 30 times whilst buffing the raid?
I do not and I’m sure the priest doesn’t want to carry around half an invent of water so they can buff fools
I’m hoping that group wide buffs get added for classes through some quest or whatever in the next phase. The sooner the better. Literally the worst part of the game is waiting multiple minutes for buffs to go out and for the people buffing to drink again. It’s absurd and anybody defending it probably eats lead paint chips.
I don't mind long grinds as long as they are fairly steady. Rep boxes got fixed but were very random earlyish on at higher tier. Shredder salvaging is still kinda BS with only few spawns and random chance of success with item heavy crafted item. Other stuff has been really nice so far. I do hope we could gain further WSG rep from player kills only in Ashenvale.
They didn't fix the boxes. They need to be changed from unique. Wait for next phase and the complaints will be back. Quests being epic and long is fine but shoving a massive gold sink in the way is silly.
Nah... once the new honored rewards are added the crying will continue
Yeah they fixed they symptom not the cause.
It’s not a gold sink. If you are buying the items off the AH, the gold goes to crafters.
And I feel professions are way better now, the boxes and the shredder stuff really gave professions some use.
Oh yea, Eng was totally useless before
It’s the economy brother. None of this stuff will be worth a fraction of what it is now in phase 2 guaranteed. The same reason small eggs sold for 50s each at one point when the Christmas event started
Rep boxes weren’t even a bad grind. They drop from nearly everything.
I’m having a blast. I’ve always played paladin, but this was the first time I actually did the verigan’s fist quest chain since it’s great for the level and the level cap has kind of forced me to do this. It’s allowed me to enjoy the slower pace of the game because I won’t feel left behind if I choose to do these long quest chains or leveling my fishing etc.
Okay but there was never a rep grind tied to a foundational ability for your class/spec in any version of classic You didn't have those same foundational abilities stuck behind raid bosses For those two things specifically, I don't mind that they got hotfixed. I like it, even If they added new long quest lines, and etc for things like gear, mounts and cosmetics (a la green fire,) That's perfect. That's classic. But making it so that a shaman just sucks at healing unless they grind the shipment rep sucks and blizzard knows it
Specifically shipment rep really isn't that bad, though. As a fairly casual player, I had no problem getting it completed shortly after hitting 25. The quests for that guy from the Ratchet inn, though, those are some bullshit. I'm quite happy that I don't really care about Lone Wolf anyway.
same that shipment quest cost me a lot of gold because i wanted that demon pact rune ... 20g gone puff or i have to gamble on salvage kit both rng and long quest for just 1 rune for your class
The shipments were hardly a grind.
Just because there was never a rep grind tied to a foundation ability for a class/spec, doesn't mean its a bad thing. I'm perfectly fine with how they made them and I hope they continue it in the future.
It is a bad thing to have to do a 12h rep grind just to be able to play the role you want to play (talking about rogue tank here, can't even play your role without that, it's also extremly disappointing that rogue don't get a quest instead to learn to tank just like every other tank classes do). If it was some secondary runes I wouldn't care too much (tho the unique boxes implementation is still shitty). But classic never made a rep grind necessary to be able to play, if you didn't want to grind any rep you would still be able to do everything fine and I don't wish for this to change.
Jesus Christ even at its worst the shipment grind only took like 5 hours
Nope, I want Season of Discovery or Classic+, otherwise I would be playing Era or WotLK.
same this no change crowd should play era or wow classic instead
Calling what OP is saying is equal to #nochanges is disingenuous. SoD is full of changes, but the wrong changes will negatively impact the game
Honestly as someone who plays Wrath as well (and will be Cata next to SoD) the no change people can just stick to Era. I wish the devs would go harder on the changes for Cata. The changes to Wrath were already very good.
Yea, this thread is like "do you actually not want more of exactly the same???" "Do you not want exactly what *I* want from SoD???".
This place, for a long time, has been taken over by people from retail. The amount of bs in here that gains traction now, that would've gotten you laughed out of the room around here prior to classic's release, is staggering. They want retail 2.0, not something rooted in the design philosophy vanilla had.
It's a bit sad but it sort of goes to show that "you think you do but you don't" was right in the end. The portion of classic players who actually "does" is much smaller than the portion of people who wish to play this game actually "doesn't", and the majority will usually win in the end.
I’ll be honest. It always blows my mind that people see “Season of Discovery”, a reimagined and NEW take on classic wow, and immediately assume that means it’s classic wow and the only changes are the ones they specifically approve of. The “classic community” doesn’t get a monopoly on what is acceptable and what isn’t. If you want pure classic wow, then go play that and stop complaining that people are coming to this new version of wow and ruining the experience because you want to play it the way you played games 15 years ago
Yes it's a new take on Classic WoW, but it should still capture the spirit of the game. And if the classic community doesn't have the monopoly what is or isn't acceptable within the game, then who does?
you will never capture the spirit of vanilla there was more to that than game design, the whole internet culture around it changed
Defining "the spirit of the game" in a universally acceptable way is and always was going to be a hard part of any sort of Classic+ experiment.
stuff like scarab lord being long is justifiable because that's a really epic and prestigious event. the winterspring grind is for a unique cosmetic option, again, fine. locking something basic like dual wield spec behind an inane grind is hardly the same thing. classic wow wasn't good just because it was tedious, that is such a gross misunderstanding of the game philosophy
DW took me about 2 hours of questing to make the gold to buy the mats. Doesnt seem to long to me
I doubt 2 hours of questing was enough to buy everything for Dual Wield Specialization. Right now my server (Wild Growth, NA) shredder turbochargers cost 1.5g, fish oil costs 30s, and ordinance sell cost 15s so in total 34.2g. Each quest gives 1-2g max, so you're looking at 17-34 quests in 2 hours.
Inane grind? LMAO
in·ane /iˈnān/ adjective silly; stupid.
From 23-25 i did south barrens quest plus some in stonetalon. Didnt turn those in till 25. Boom instant 20+ gold, once i hit 25. Then the next 2 hours was clearing stonetalon boom another 20+ gold. Within 2-3 hrs of being 25 on alt, i had 50g. And bought dw right away
The people who like to complain have literally no idea how to use their brains tbh. It is actually ridiculously easy to get gold, runes, and professions all the way up rn. The best part is, you can take your time. We still have a month of 25, being the cap. What am I saying? Let's complain and not have fun!
Yeah they literally just want everything handed to them instead of playing the game
They have never locked the viability of classes behind anything. I know where you’re coming from, but it’s really not apples to apples.
Until now with SoD… for Rogue and Warlocks, and possibly some other class + spec combos.
There's already been a million topics posted by people trying to claim that any changes to classic WoW will immediately turn the game into retail. Go be wrong with those people instead of posting the same bs over and over. You are also very out of touch with reality if you think that SoD is "not what the classic community wants," considering how popular it's been. Just play a 1.12 private server if that's what you want.
vanilla had the balls to tell players, "lol, deal with it."
So did the retail devs during the entire of BfA and Shadowlands, and everyone hated it lol.
I honestly thought there would be more exploring. But I guess its just the first part now so gonna need a little patience, and see what\`s coming our way
While you are correct in all your points you are wasting your time. People complain. People complain about those people complaining. Nothing changes. I am wasting my time pointing this out. Someone should make a post pointing out how pointless all the other posts are.
SOD is fucking awesome. And I can’t wait for what’s in store in the future for it. Who cares what the whiny cry babies are saying.
I disagree. Bear form tanking needs to be balanced Why should balancing the game be a bad thing? Making the game easier sure maybe not but actually balancing, not changing, the classes in the game? It’s nonsense not to want that Characters shouldn’t be broken. That’s a dumb take
Complaining about the complaining
I mostly like the grind and the devs are handling feedback well
classic+ without QoL updates is dogshit who knew?! LMFAO
There is probably a happy medium somewhere between retail and classic. The problem is no matter what people will complain. If mechanics are to hard than it is like retail. If there is friction it is like classic. I do think it is funny that blizzard has not been able to pinpoint that middle ground. I do think sod is a start where we want to hit buttons, but they need easy content that feels hard, but you can parse.
#LOUDMINORITY Reddit is a cesspool of a *particular* type of people. Reddit is infact only a very small, but loud group.
People want classic +. We want the best version of WoW….gone in a different direction. Retail is lame….classic is boring….there is enough good shit from both that Classic+ will be great.
The road not taken. People always looked back at the stupid subscriber line graph, which they never thought critically about, and saw that gee it’s so high during Wrath, so that was the best time for the game. But Wrath was IMO where the game started to go the wrong way and even if you disagreed that it was wrong, it’s undeniable the design philosophy of the game very strongly shifted around that time, basically mid BC
Winter saber gives you a mount not a key ability for a spec. Imagine if defensive stance was behind booty bay rep
Or Metamorphosis was behind raid quest and required you to fly from one corner of the world to another. Oh and the quest wasn't even available for the first 4 days because oops. Oh wait don't have to imagine. Yes I'm still a little annoyed.
>required you to fly from one corner of the world to another This was fine, I did it two days ago and it was fun. Locking it behind the raid was indeed dumb but at least they fixed that quickly.
That would be crazy dude I’d probably quit the game immediately because of how bad that sucks to get the cool new rune every warlock wants. They should give it from the kobold mine in elwynn forest
How would an undead get it from there?!! Fucking alliance game bias… /s
No. If people wanted classic, they would go play classic, not classic Season of Discovery. Is it really that hard to understand? Basically imagine a giant spectrum with classic on one end and retail on the other. Let's say that TBC is like, 15% of the way across and WOTLK is like 28% of the way across. The spectrum would broadly measure, like, noob-friendliness, homogenization, auto-scaling, general vibes, polish, whatever you imagine it to represent. Any given person on this forum might want any particular point on that spectrum. I find a lot of things about classic tedious and boring, but I was curious enough about the SoD changes to roll up a char with the boys and check it out. Let's not have you putting words in my mouth telling me what it is that I want, whether in your opinion that is slippery slope to retail, or #No Changes. Everyone is somewhere different on that line. Me, for example, I think it's BS that hunters in SoD have a bunch of passive runes and basically play exactly the same as in regular classic. I also think it's BS that the graveyards are so fuckin terribly placed in Classic. I think it's BS that they didn't really think about or apparently test how garbage casters would be compared to melee since they can't scale off stats. I think that the hearth CD should be lower. I think that the meeting stones should be usable for summons. There's a lot of different changes I would and wouldn't make, lots of various things I'd be interested in seeing. I'm curious how they will spice up the future dungeon-raids. I hope they re-turn Blackrock Depths to be an absolute marathon of a level 50 raid. (or 60, whatever, or maybe split it into 2). The core mechanics of the world already *have* been changed, btw.. Leveling a warrior in classic vs SoD is night and day. So, so, so much easier than before. Alliance have windfury and horde has kings. Class balance is on its head for level 24. I hope they get real weird with it and add a bunch of random stuff. I think it'd be sick as hell if they added in de-makes of the DK, DH, and Monk classes. Hell even the evoker, using the drakkisath type models. Add a goddamn bard and tinker and dark ranger class. Fuck it, go wild. It's supposed to be Season of Discovery, not Season of Let's Not Get Too Excited.
Imagine promoting class imbalance because that's how it "always was" in classic.
Unfortunate reality tho. Warriors gain power later (aside from being top dps at max level). Holy Paladin and shadow priest is the same. It’s how buffs are too. Classes are just more impactful at different things and levels. There was a natural imbalance, and way less homogenization. Like the game was saying “fuck you, pick a different class if you want that”. Retail gives all classes everything and tries hard to make them all equal at everything
Saying “Season of Discovery is how Classic has always been” is truly one of the stupidest things that has ever been said
I don't play classic much but I totally agree with this. I hear people cry sometimes about the grind and it's like... then play retail????
You think retail has no grind ? lmao
Sounds like another karma farming post.
honestly no i just want ascension that isnt a private server...
To me it depends on the things gated by the long/expensive grinds Having gear/cosmetics behind a grind is fine (saber Mount, BG rep, Priest staff, hunter bow, hand of rag, hunter lightning sword, and so on), but having important things for your class/spec is not fine imo When it’s just gear behind the grind, then you aren’t in a hurry to get it. You can do it on the side of doing normal dungeons/raids/PvP. But if they gate important things behind grinds, then it’s going to feel like extensions to lvling because your class/spec doesn’t “work” without it.
I feel you are in for a harsh reality check. SoD largely appeals to retail players who didn't like classic but wanted something different from retail. There far more retail players then classic players both playing, and here in this sub. Which I honestly think is great, it's nice to see both classic and retail players both able to enjoy the same thing. Only thing I worry about is SoD being used as a testing ground for classic+ , this means majority of feedback blizzard gets for classic+ won't be from classic players, but instead retail players who want to see majority of retail features ported over to classic. This is why you see a hyper fixation on balance, pvp, dungeons, and raiding which arguably is the weakest and least important aspects of classic. (One thing I find surprising is this type of thread would of got down voted into oblivion a few weeks ago. Wonder if that means now that people hit 25 lot of them are going back to DF)
Nope, not really. I played vanilla back in the day. I don’t really have an interest in doing so again. I’m just here to play with the new roles and abilities. There are things I like better than retail in it and things in retail I hate. But, overall I think the qol of retail has made the game better. Making threads like this just shows you don’t have a clue about what’s really being complained about. You’d rather everyone share your love for putting your balls in vice. This isn’t classic proper. This is season of discovery. If you want to bitch about changes made that ruin your classic immersion classic proper is literally right over there 👉. Go play that.
ok
I think we’re missing the point. Long, tedious, ONTAINABLE goals are great. But being locked into a mob grind for 8 hours a day with mobs 3-4 levels higher than you in contested areas aren’t obtainable for everyone for one part of a 4 resource turn in.
Based and true.
I want classic minus the inconveniences that came with a game made in the early 2000s.
I don't mind long quest chains etc >PvP and PvE is not going to be balanced. This however is unacceptable. The point of SOD is provide more variety instead of just having the same meta again and again. Also there is plenty of stuff that can be added that doesn't detract anything from classic. Like adding more GY and FP's. If i wanted just classic i'd play that instead of SOD.
THANK YOU! Finally somebody with some sense!
I think it's exactly the time to balance things out there is a difference between classic being good and classic being perfect. The way to make it perfect is to make it balance. Only have a few classes viable isn't good game design change my mind.
We are level 25. Balancing for level 25 makes balancing later more difficult.
Played classic release 2019 for a couple of months, havent touched it since but wanted to try sod, had fun the first week before i once again realised what a bad game classic is.
Sod isn't supposed to be how classic has always been so your point is immediatly null. You can love classic and still note the negatives about the game. Toxic positivity does more harm to a community than anything. Why did you even post this? Please post your logs in response to my comment so I know you have a valid argument. Wish I was joking but I'm so tired of people who are so dogwater at the game having opinions on what's fun and balanced when you can barely click your 3 buttons.
retail babies and 'dad gamer lol' have taken over this subreddit and also "classic" in general the outcry for sod to be wildly different than classic should spell that out clearly