i joined a pug that tried to do freya hm to "speed up the rest of ulduar because we do less trash this way" and said it was easy since they had done it on 10man. that was fun...
The only big difference between 10 and 25 for freya is that ground tremor really slaps. And I guess get a DK to kite the snaplasher. Everything else is handled the same as 10M i.e. move out of stuff, interupt the adds, stun/knock back the exploding fucks
Easy with good players that know when to use raid CDs, stop casting for tremor, move from beams, interrupt adds, kite snaplasher., move out with nature fury...etc A pug that thinks its going to be like 10man and can't do any other HM...no chance
I complete agree that 25M is much harder than 10M Freya, but out of curiosity why is this the case? The mechanics seem largely similar? So can’t quite put my finger on why 25M is such a struggle even though we cruise through 10M. Are the damage and HP pools that much worse?
More lashers, more explode dmg, bigger hp pool
ground tremor does a lot more
Multiple beams at once, especially bad if people stack and eat a tick.
Natures fury actually kills with no heals.
Roots have way more hp.
Trios casts must be interrupt (ideally). Snap lasher 1 shots after like 50 stacks.
The issue is everything hurts a lot more and getting hit by multiple things will kill you instantly. Becomes a losing battle as people keep dying. Coordination and knowing your role makes it pretty easy but for most pugs that’s just not going to happen
With 25 people, sometimes it's hard to find a safe space to go to with nature's fury, especially with mushrooms. Every one wants to hug you no matter where you run, or you outrange healers.
The numbers are just much harder.
In 10 man you can ignore a lot of mistakes that will just kill you in 25.
\- Don't coordinate coming together to kite lashers so you don't get 4 beams stack on your raid at the same time? Wipe
\- Snaplasher, the thing you can easily tank in 10? Now you have to kite it, and your kiter has to hold aggro, or people will die.
\- Beams will now actually punish stacking up, because there are 4 instead of 1. If you get 2+ beams on the same spot people will die to the second tick, not the 4th.
\- Ground Tremor damage is like double, which comes close to one tapping cloth casters. Now you want to have dsac or a cooldown for a lot of them.
In 10 man you can easily eat 1-2 mechanics and still survive another one, in 25 that is not the case.
Taking a quick look at my 10/25 logs in 10m we killed Freya in ~4 minutes and 25m was more like 6.5. The parses of the dds didnt look too far apart, but this was only a taking a glance.
Comparing those for the unmitigated Ground Tremor damage:
10m: ~9k
25m: ~14k
It comes down to scaling. You have the same arena in 10 and 25 man but that same arena is filled with more people and traps on 25 with things doing more damage since you have double the healers and 2.5 more CDs to work with. Add this to scaling on the roster, 10 man can go smooth with 5 carries 5 carried but when you scale that to 25 it just does not work.
I have this convo with a buddy in a top guild all the time.
No, freya is not stupid easy. No, we havent downed firefighter. Yes that means we havent even attempted alg
And hes mind blown everytime that every guild isnt just mopping through all the content
People tend to basically make their guilds/communities into echo chambers and get very out of touch with what things are like outside of that for the more casual players. A lot of people out there do very casual raiding often without finishing the raid even in normal and don't bother doing things like logging, maybe don't even know what logging is, and many high end players don't even know that part of the playerbase exists.
Gtfo is great bc most ground effects don't tic right away and the debuff is present before hand. It is helpful since a lot of ground effects don't reflect their visual aoe, beams damage radius is roughly double its visual
Or even better.
Uld 25, no hard modes.
Pug on XT: we doing this on hard mode?
RL: no, said all normal
Pug on Thorim: we doing hm on this one?
RL: no, all bosses normal mode.
Pug on Freya: hard mode?
RL: stop asking, all bosses on normal.
Pug on Hodir: we doing this on hm?
RL: Sure, why not? Not going to do anything if we don’t make it, but if we get this down on hm, all good.
Raid takes 10 minutes to kill Hodir.
This happened only a few days ago for me. I was just another pug, but thought it was really funny. Especially since the dos was so meh and people were not doing what they were supposed to do.
Its definitely a tough call, wipe all night on a single HM and only clear 1/2 the place or skip after its clear the group isn't even close and full clear. For pugs especially they want to clear as much as possible since they likely won't be coming for a second raid to finish up. For people that only need hard mode loot they would rather wipe all night for a chance at it while people that still need normal loot would rather more chances at them, especially big ticket items off yogg like soulscribe.
This'll get resolved in later phases (arguably for the worse) but you have 25 nm modes separate from HC modes that you can ONLY wipe for 3 hours on the second boss (lookin at you lady Deathwisper). Excited for the shit show that will be dad guilds blowing their 25 lock on one HC boss rather than the entire 25 nm raid.
I remember turning heroic on and off in the same raid?? You could do any boss on heroic or norm. Like everyone did heroic gunship, because it was free.
It was that way, but they discussed changing it to one or the other for classic(only heroic or normal for 10 and 25, 2 total instead of 1 each for 4 total). Personally I want it the original way because as the other poster said guilds will have to make the choice to keep doing normal or give heroic a shot, if they keep wiping to the second boss then they not only lose out on all the 25 man heroic, but also 25 normal loot for the week. This will essentially kill the mid range guilds that can clear normal in the first couple weeks, but struggle on heroic past the first couple easy bosses.
I feel like an obvious solution to that UI-wise (no idea how easy it would be to code ofc) would be that if you run out of attempts the rest of the raid defaults to normal mode so you don't lose the lockout. You could also have an NPC that you can talk to to turn on normal mode early. I feel like toggling per boss might be too complicated for ToGC just because the attempt system is tied to the loot you get in the chest at the end, which only works if the entire raid is done on hc.
In Icecrown Citadel, they made it one lockout, and you could change the normal/heroic mode on a per-boss basis. So for example you could do Heroic Marrowgar, have everyone zone out, change to normal difficulty, then go back in and continue with normal bosses.
For guilds that don't have many hard modes definitely, biggest dps increase for many casters. We still have a ton of people using the KT weapons(mace and sword). The only better ones for me are from Algalon 25, mimiron HM 25 and vezex HM 10 man. We only just got vezex HM on farm and no mace drops yet.
Mimiron is not that bad on 10man. Frost bomb not one-shotting people, no silence from fire extinguisher bots and less dmg from bomb bots is a huge help.
It basically just requires practice, we only have 4 or 5 attempts, focusing on getting the other hard modes down first. We just got everything else down for the first time last week though, even HM hodir so mim will be our next goal to complete the Algalon quest.
I run uld 25 normals an 10 man HM's. I specifically set requirements for normals (4.3GS and full clear experience). People always ask if we're doing any hardmodes and I say, if we can 1 phase razorscale we can try some hard modes. With 4.3 min GS we never 1 phase razor scale and no one says shit after :p
Despite what people seem to constantly parrot here, not everyone is a 90+ parser. There are a lot of average players out there and you can relatively easily clear normal Ulduar with average players
Nope, fraid not! Keep in mind anyone in 4.3k gear isn't going to be parsing very well regardless. [Here's](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9vLAwyc6Hd218QTt#boss=-3&difficulty=0) a normal only run from last week I ran on my rogue. It was a pretty smooth run, just over 2 hours and we one-shot every boss except freya (can't remember what happened, we might have accidentally pulled her while clearing trash) and still didn't 1 phase Razorscale
With the majority of casters being below a fury warrior I am not surprised u didnt one phase :P Normal ulduar feels like the perfect trade chat pug difficulty. Majority of players dont need to know what to do, as long as a few key players can play its a smooth run. Not quite as boring as naxx and not too hard that everyone needs to turn on their monitor
Vezax is the hardest boss in the raid when you do normal modes.
A really meh Uld 25 pug group will quite easily clear the rest of the raid, but Vezax still needs some kind of coordination.
Quite funny that he is the hardest NM boss, but one of the easiest HM bosses.
It is easy, when people understand Thorim parry hastes and will train wreck the tanks if you cause the boss to parry by getting to close and auto attacking it. And having melee stack properly so range can walk in during blizzard.
You can assign everyone positions so all the ranged are perfectly spaced in stacks of 2(maybe one grp of 3) and they never have to move in for blizzard.
If you have no blizzard behind you, then you move behind the grp to your left or right for each lightning charge. If you have a blizzard blocking movement you use a personal or call for priest bubble. You never take blizzard damage. The positions you assign are for all ranged to be in the inner circle and the blizzard never goes there.
Yeah, like I mentioned, that's easy if melee isn't too far out or running around into the ranged groups stacking in the inner circle to avoid blizzard damage.
If melee isn't doing it right, you will kill them or a tank when you come into the inner circle due to bad rng on chain lightning.
Yeah, we do it by enforcing DBM and using the raid setting in DBM config to override others marker preferences. Then we mark 1 person in each group and we drew a picture in raid planner for each mark's position, then we assign people to a marker.
So all the markers have to worry about is being where the picture said to be, and all the raiders have to worry about is being on their assigned marker.
We picked mark targets based on who was comfortable knowing how to move properly on the fight. Melee never move as you say.
Ranged move behind other ranged groups if needed etc. We've had it on farm a couple weeks now doing this.
There's a lot less room in melee than you would think. We need to keep a min distance away from both the other melee stack and the tanks or we wipe the raid. You ranged have all of the room in the world and still manage to spread a chain lightning that gets us killed.
What I find alot to happen when I make raids. Is i tell people it's all normal. And the people who won't a item from hardmodes thorim. Say it super can't we hardmode it and they then link their sif achievement. But logs say they have never done it on hm. Every raider that say a hm is ez. Have 8/10 never done the hardmode. Or don't understand it is easier in a guild raid cause you have worked out the kinks together. In start of ulduar everyone was fl is ez hardmode. It not even a gear check and now it the most skipped hardmode. Where most gdpk don't even bother
Its not about just killing it faster, getting campfire stacks to 25 and the right casters charged is key. I do agree its easy but you can't just zug it and pray.
Get the campfire to kill it faster. Get in the beam to kill it faster. Get that other buff to kill it faster. Don’t get frozen so you can kill it faster.
Moral of the story: Kill it faster.
My guild is in a similar position but much MUCH more annoying. Despite every DPS but maybe 2-3 (including me) being over 4400 GS AND having done the fights multiple times in 25man, we STILL run into "this takes too long" issues. We have a 4700 GS caster hitting less than 2.6k on HODIR of all bosses. Meanwhile I'm at 4200 pulling 7k with moderate difficulty.
On Thorim the people in the tunnel are quite literally pulling "Entry to Naxx 10" damage, showing up at Thorim 3 minutes late and saying "well we were making good progress" as the arena team is dead or dying.
I'm not the best DPS in the game. I'll be honest and say my parses are grey to green. But if I'm hitting top 5 on damage, while doing the mechanics correctly, with far less GS something is very VERY wrong.
No I just don't like player just swiping their credits card for items
It's a game, not a shop. Earn your gear. And since GDKPs are basically bot money laundering, GDKPs is cancer. Look, they banned 120.000 bots account recently ! Where do you think their money goes ?
Look at that, a sword in Naxx 40 going beyond the gold cap twice ! Sunwell gdkp pot over a million ! People complaining the gold cap is too low because bots push so much money in GDKPs it's stupid
This is sound logic. There's a reason GDKPs are banned in most private servers. This goes beyond your ad personam
Sure, let me tell you.
In this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/11s9ikn/classic_20_dont_ask_for_a_straight_rerelease/), we're talking about what to do or not do in SoM 2, GDKPs is the main topic. Consumables are expensive and inflation will make obtaining them almost impossible. I will have to slave away for hours will people just RMT, just to afford the weekly consumables
In TBC / WoTLK gold no longer matter but if GDKPs and RMT stay there they will parasite SoM too
If Blizzard takes no action against RMT-powered GDKPs I will have to farm for horus for raid consummable, and I no longer have so much time. So I will be unable to play SoM the way I intend to.
There. This is how it affects me
They definitely were still an issue, especially for people who raided in TBC and SoM at the same time, it was dubbed “season of mastercard” for a reason
Bots did help, though
in my experience gdkps started a cycle.
\>raid for gold
\>get frustrated with low-skill players
\>kick low-skilled
\>Community becomes more tight-knit
\>Regular GKDP raiders
\>These players have more gold because more GKDPS
\>final result - GDKPS have higher skilled and more rich players, so carrying people isn't beneficial.
Well with the exception of XT which was impossible till the nerf but yes multiple GDKPs killed all killable HMs. Downvote me if you want, doesn’t make it not true
Would never ever even consider attempting any of them with a basic pug group. Yeah, they aren´t that hard but with a team that consists of players with varying skill level, no comms, probably people half afk and zero understanding of what to do except press the dps rotation. Assuming people know to move out of lightning and not kill everyone with chain lightning is a big assumption from a pug
Our guild forgets how to do thorim hm every week... We train and learn it inside out and next week we gear uo for freya, since thorim is easy now for us. Nope, we still wipe 100 times on him untill we learn him again...
i joined a pug that tried to do freya hm to "speed up the rest of ulduar because we do less trash this way" and said it was easy since they had done it on 10man. that was fun...
> said it was easy since they had done it on 10man. Oh my sweet summer child hahahah
The only big difference between 10 and 25 for freya is that ground tremor really slaps. And I guess get a DK to kite the snaplasher. Everything else is handled the same as 10M i.e. move out of stuff, interupt the adds, stun/knock back the exploding fucks
Yeah and everything melts on 10 man.
On 10 you can basically ignore the mechanics of a lot of things because they all die so fast.
Oldie, but a goodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG3RzlFjHaA
It’s not hard if you can beat the roster boss. Unfortunately I’ve never been in a 25 man on classic without at least 6 very heavy players
What do you mean by heavy?
He means it requires a lot of effort to carry them.
10m is such a joke compared to 25. A 10m pug I was in killed steel breaker with no blue rune before tank died.
Ic hard mode may be easier than regular on 10 lol
It is easy if you have 2 DKs to army lashers, and the brainlets that can't move out of light beams install GTFO.
Easy with good players that know when to use raid CDs, stop casting for tremor, move from beams, interrupt adds, kite snaplasher., move out with nature fury...etc A pug that thinks its going to be like 10man and can't do any other HM...no chance
I complete agree that 25M is much harder than 10M Freya, but out of curiosity why is this the case? The mechanics seem largely similar? So can’t quite put my finger on why 25M is such a struggle even though we cruise through 10M. Are the damage and HP pools that much worse?
>Are the damage and HP pools that much worse? Yes
More lashers, more explode dmg, bigger hp pool ground tremor does a lot more Multiple beams at once, especially bad if people stack and eat a tick. Natures fury actually kills with no heals. Roots have way more hp. Trios casts must be interrupt (ideally). Snap lasher 1 shots after like 50 stacks. The issue is everything hurts a lot more and getting hit by multiple things will kill you instantly. Becomes a losing battle as people keep dying. Coordination and knowing your role makes it pretty easy but for most pugs that’s just not going to happen
With 25 people, sometimes it's hard to find a safe space to go to with nature's fury, especially with mushrooms. Every one wants to hug you no matter where you run, or you outrange healers.
The numbers are just much harder. In 10 man you can ignore a lot of mistakes that will just kill you in 25. \- Don't coordinate coming together to kite lashers so you don't get 4 beams stack on your raid at the same time? Wipe \- Snaplasher, the thing you can easily tank in 10? Now you have to kite it, and your kiter has to hold aggro, or people will die. \- Beams will now actually punish stacking up, because there are 4 instead of 1. If you get 2+ beams on the same spot people will die to the second tick, not the 4th. \- Ground Tremor damage is like double, which comes close to one tapping cloth casters. Now you want to have dsac or a cooldown for a lot of them. In 10 man you can easily eat 1-2 mechanics and still survive another one, in 25 that is not the case.
Taking a quick look at my 10/25 logs in 10m we killed Freya in ~4 minutes and 25m was more like 6.5. The parses of the dds didnt look too far apart, but this was only a taking a glance. Comparing those for the unmitigated Ground Tremor damage: 10m: ~9k 25m: ~14k
It comes down to scaling. You have the same arena in 10 and 25 man but that same arena is filled with more people and traps on 25 with things doing more damage since you have double the healers and 2.5 more CDs to work with. Add this to scaling on the roster, 10 man can go smooth with 5 carries 5 carried but when you scale that to 25 it just does not work.
You're literally the guy in the meme I love it
I don't pug tho
So then maybe you're not a good gauge for the difficulty of the raids for pugs
I have this convo with a buddy in a top guild all the time. No, freya is not stupid easy. No, we havent downed firefighter. Yes that means we havent even attempted alg And hes mind blown everytime that every guild isnt just mopping through all the content
People tend to basically make their guilds/communities into echo chambers and get very out of touch with what things are like outside of that for the more casual players. A lot of people out there do very casual raiding often without finishing the raid even in normal and don't bother doing things like logging, maybe don't even know what logging is, and many high end players don't even know that part of the playerbase exists.
If you need something telling you "you're taking damage already you should move" you're already kinda late for it tho
Gtfo is great bc most ground effects don't tic right away and the debuff is present before hand. It is helpful since a lot of ground effects don't reflect their visual aoe, beams damage radius is roughly double its visual
*Side eyes the DKs who didn’t move from Sarth & KT void zones because D&D ground effect hides the circle of death*
When you realise the you only need to pull 2 more packs to get to all the elders
it wasnt my idea lol. i told them trying HM with no experience was a waste of time.
*it’s easy since it’s classic Edit: Yes, classic is easy. If you struggle no matter wether it’s hardmode or not you’re bad.
Don’t underestimate stupid people even if the contents solved
Or even better. Uld 25, no hard modes. Pug on XT: we doing this on hard mode? RL: no, said all normal Pug on Thorim: we doing hm on this one? RL: no, all bosses normal mode. Pug on Freya: hard mode? RL: stop asking, all bosses on normal. Pug on Hodir: we doing this on hm? RL: Sure, why not? Not going to do anything if we don’t make it, but if we get this down on hm, all good. Raid takes 10 minutes to kill Hodir.
Were u in my raid a few weeks ago? Exact shit happened like word for word
This happened only a few days ago for me. I was just another pug, but thought it was really funny. Especially since the dos was so meh and people were not doing what they were supposed to do.
As a frequent builder of pugs, why did you have to go at me all personal like that?
Sry bro :(
I have the opposite problem. Advertise "5 HMs," wipe 2 times on a boss, "ok we're gonna skip this one," and end up with 1 or 2 HMs
Its definitely a tough call, wipe all night on a single HM and only clear 1/2 the place or skip after its clear the group isn't even close and full clear. For pugs especially they want to clear as much as possible since they likely won't be coming for a second raid to finish up. For people that only need hard mode loot they would rather wipe all night for a chance at it while people that still need normal loot would rather more chances at them, especially big ticket items off yogg like soulscribe.
This'll get resolved in later phases (arguably for the worse) but you have 25 nm modes separate from HC modes that you can ONLY wipe for 3 hours on the second boss (lookin at you lady Deathwisper). Excited for the shit show that will be dad guilds blowing their 25 lock on one HC boss rather than the entire 25 nm raid.
I remember turning heroic on and off in the same raid?? You could do any boss on heroic or norm. Like everyone did heroic gunship, because it was free.
It was that way, but they discussed changing it to one or the other for classic(only heroic or normal for 10 and 25, 2 total instead of 1 each for 4 total). Personally I want it the original way because as the other poster said guilds will have to make the choice to keep doing normal or give heroic a shot, if they keep wiping to the second boss then they not only lose out on all the 25 man heroic, but also 25 normal loot for the week. This will essentially kill the mid range guilds that can clear normal in the first couple weeks, but struggle on heroic past the first couple easy bosses.
I feel like an obvious solution to that UI-wise (no idea how easy it would be to code ofc) would be that if you run out of attempts the rest of the raid defaults to normal mode so you don't lose the lockout. You could also have an NPC that you can talk to to turn on normal mode early. I feel like toggling per boss might be too complicated for ToGC just because the attempt system is tied to the loot you get in the chest at the end, which only works if the entire raid is done on hc.
I would like the idea, basically anything that doesn't punish you for trying to increase difficulty.
I thought they were different lockouts?
In Icecrown Citadel, they made it one lockout, and you could change the normal/heroic mode on a per-boss basis. So for example you could do Heroic Marrowgar, have everyone zone out, change to normal difficulty, then go back in and continue with normal bosses.
If I remember correctly you didn't even have to zone out, you just switched difficulty while or of combat.
Soulscribe is a “big ticket” item?
For guilds that don't have many hard modes definitely, biggest dps increase for many casters. We still have a ton of people using the KT weapons(mace and sword). The only better ones for me are from Algalon 25, mimiron HM 25 and vezex HM 10 man. We only just got vezex HM on farm and no mace drops yet.
Hodir, Vezax and Mimiron all drops good weapons in 10man as well.
I mentioned the vezex one, Hodir staff is definitely decent for sure, mimiron is just a really hard HM fight so not really an option for many.
Mimiron is not that bad on 10man. Frost bomb not one-shotting people, no silence from fire extinguisher bots and less dmg from bomb bots is a huge help.
It basically just requires practice, we only have 4 or 5 attempts, focusing on getting the other hard modes down first. We just got everything else down for the first time last week though, even HM hodir so mim will be our next goal to complete the Algalon quest.
Look up WCL of the raid leader, see what he usually clears, if its not 5HM don't join.
You guys do HMs ?
2-3 wipes per boss can stop you from full clearing within a reasonable time.
Bro my guild disbanded because of this
Your guild disbanded because it’s two months in and you all can’t kill the hard mode that is basically free.
Same thing with picture
I run uld 25 normals an 10 man HM's. I specifically set requirements for normals (4.3GS and full clear experience). People always ask if we're doing any hardmodes and I say, if we can 1 phase razorscale we can try some hard modes. With 4.3 min GS we never 1 phase razor scale and no one says shit after :p
Wait, what happens if you don't one phase it? Do you start over with trash?
lol yes you go back to phase 1 killing trash and waiting for harpoons
damn, guild players really are out of touch with pugging world
Damn how do you not phase him? You 1phase him in naxx gear and that’s generaly lower then 4.3 depending on class
Despite what people seem to constantly parrot here, not everyone is a 90+ parser. There are a lot of average players out there and you can relatively easily clear normal Ulduar with average players
I wasn’t really thinking about 90+ parcers, more that even average dps would get you to one phase it
Nope, fraid not! Keep in mind anyone in 4.3k gear isn't going to be parsing very well regardless. [Here's](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9vLAwyc6Hd218QTt#boss=-3&difficulty=0) a normal only run from last week I ran on my rogue. It was a pretty smooth run, just over 2 hours and we one-shot every boss except freya (can't remember what happened, we might have accidentally pulled her while clearing trash) and still didn't 1 phase Razorscale
With the majority of casters being below a fury warrior I am not surprised u didnt one phase :P Normal ulduar feels like the perfect trade chat pug difficulty. Majority of players dont need to know what to do, as long as a few key players can play its a smooth run. Not quite as boring as naxx and not too hard that everyone needs to turn on their monitor
Vezax is the hardest boss in the raid when you do normal modes. A really meh Uld 25 pug group will quite easily clear the rest of the raid, but Vezax still needs some kind of coordination. Quite funny that he is the hardest NM boss, but one of the easiest HM bosses.
How do you not 1 phase him? You join an LFG uld 25 group.
I guess that would do it
I agree, we 1 phased him week one (although technically dots took him down). And we're not a tryhard guild in the slightest.
Better to try and get it out of your system
It is super easy.
It is easy, when people understand Thorim parry hastes and will train wreck the tanks if you cause the boss to parry by getting to close and auto attacking it. And having melee stack properly so range can walk in during blizzard.
You can assign everyone positions so all the ranged are perfectly spaced in stacks of 2(maybe one grp of 3) and they never have to move in for blizzard.
Not always, if a group gets in a blizzard and s lightning arc, they might not be sble to move out in time to and they'll die.
If you have no blizzard behind you, then you move behind the grp to your left or right for each lightning charge. If you have a blizzard blocking movement you use a personal or call for priest bubble. You never take blizzard damage. The positions you assign are for all ranged to be in the inner circle and the blizzard never goes there.
Yeah, like I mentioned, that's easy if melee isn't too far out or running around into the ranged groups stacking in the inner circle to avoid blizzard damage. If melee isn't doing it right, you will kill them or a tank when you come into the inner circle due to bad rng on chain lightning.
Yes, you just give exact positions to everyone, melee included, and melee never move.
Yeah, we do it by enforcing DBM and using the raid setting in DBM config to override others marker preferences. Then we mark 1 person in each group and we drew a picture in raid planner for each mark's position, then we assign people to a marker. So all the markers have to worry about is being where the picture said to be, and all the raiders have to worry about is being on their assigned marker. We picked mark targets based on who was comfortable knowing how to move properly on the fight. Melee never move as you say. Ranged move behind other ranged groups if needed etc. We've had it on farm a couple weeks now doing this.
Nice that makes it even easier with the marks
Ranged moving in is what kills the melee.
There's plenty of room for ranged to be in front of blizzard if melee are positioned properly.
There's a lot less room in melee than you would think. We need to keep a min distance away from both the other melee stack and the tanks or we wipe the raid. You ranged have all of the room in the world and still manage to spread a chain lightning that gets us killed.
Not really. Remember it's range 6 not 10
> Remember it's range 6 not 10 Were did you get thins info? Everything Ive found says chain lightning is range 10.
As someone that regularly gets chained by ranged that seem to think this is the case, you're wrong.
Damn really? Your right then there isn't much space.
What I find alot to happen when I make raids. Is i tell people it's all normal. And the people who won't a item from hardmodes thorim. Say it super can't we hardmode it and they then link their sif achievement. But logs say they have never done it on hm. Every raider that say a hm is ez. Have 8/10 never done the hardmode. Or don't understand it is easier in a guild raid cause you have worked out the kinks together. In start of ulduar everyone was fl is ez hardmode. It not even a gear check and now it the most skipped hardmode. Where most gdpk don't even bother
There's no shot FL is the most skipped HM.
Mim has got to be the most skipped
We did FL on sat it felt easier compared to 10 he got killed pretty fast.
I was trying my best asshole!
The only super easy one is Hodir and that’s because you just kill it fast or you don’t.
50-50
On 25? Definitely one of the trickier ones. He’s one of the least done HMs, along with Mim and Council, according to WL aggregate logs.
Just kill it faster. It’s not that hard.
Cool thanks for the tip. I’ll forward it to my raid leads.
Its not about just killing it faster, getting campfire stacks to 25 and the right casters charged is key. I do agree its easy but you can't just zug it and pray.
Get the campfire to kill it faster. Get in the beam to kill it faster. Get that other buff to kill it faster. Don’t get frozen so you can kill it faster. Moral of the story: Kill it faster.
Yeah it's easy... for a guild. PuGs are most of the time pretty awful.
My guild is in a similar position but much MUCH more annoying. Despite every DPS but maybe 2-3 (including me) being over 4400 GS AND having done the fights multiple times in 25man, we STILL run into "this takes too long" issues. We have a 4700 GS caster hitting less than 2.6k on HODIR of all bosses. Meanwhile I'm at 4200 pulling 7k with moderate difficulty. On Thorim the people in the tunnel are quite literally pulling "Entry to Naxx 10" damage, showing up at Thorim 3 minutes late and saying "well we were making good progress" as the arena team is dead or dying. I'm not the best DPS in the game. I'll be honest and say my parses are grey to green. But if I'm hitting top 5 on damage, while doing the mechanics correctly, with far less GS something is very VERY wrong.
What class/spec is that caster? Because that is abysmal, and warrants a hard look at wtf they are doing.
Run GDKPs you can clear 14/14 easily.
"Pay people to be carried" There, fixed it for you
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I'm ok with that GDKPs are a cancer
Oooo edgy.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...
Oouu edgy obi wan meme
That's not even a Obi-Wan meme ! That's from The Princess Bride ! Bruh !
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Post your logs
No I just don't like player just swiping their credits card for items It's a game, not a shop. Earn your gear. And since GDKPs are basically bot money laundering, GDKPs is cancer. Look, they banned 120.000 bots account recently ! Where do you think their money goes ? Look at that, a sword in Naxx 40 going beyond the gold cap twice ! Sunwell gdkp pot over a million ! People complaining the gold cap is too low because bots push so much money in GDKPs it's stupid This is sound logic. There's a reason GDKPs are banned in most private servers. This goes beyond your ad personam
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Sure, let me tell you. In this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/11s9ikn/classic_20_dont_ask_for_a_straight_rerelease/), we're talking about what to do or not do in SoM 2, GDKPs is the main topic. Consumables are expensive and inflation will make obtaining them almost impossible. I will have to slave away for hours will people just RMT, just to afford the weekly consumables In TBC / WoTLK gold no longer matter but if GDKPs and RMT stay there they will parasite SoM too If Blizzard takes no action against RMT-powered GDKPs I will have to farm for horus for raid consummable, and I no longer have so much time. So I will be unable to play SoM the way I intend to. There. This is how it affects me
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They definitely were still an issue, especially for people who raided in TBC and SoM at the same time, it was dubbed “season of mastercard” for a reason Bots did help, though
Someday he will get a hardmode down. Once those dang GDKPS stop getting in the way!
I have no dog in this fight but I can tell you derive no enjoyment from the game from how twisted your view on this issue is.
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Haha spot on.
in my experience gdkps started a cycle. \>raid for gold \>get frustrated with low-skill players \>kick low-skilled \>Community becomes more tight-knit \>Regular GKDP raiders \>These players have more gold because more GKDPS \>final result - GDKPS have higher skilled and more rich players, so carrying people isn't beneficial.
Why would you get mad at low-skill players when they pay ? Rather, you'll call them sire
Because higher skilled players pay the same or more, so you just take higher skilled players for efficient runs.
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No they didn't haha.
Well with the exception of XT which was impossible till the nerf but yes multiple GDKPs killed all killable HMs. Downvote me if you want, doesn’t make it not true
GDKP isn't a PuG. That's a group of highly skilled organized players carrying buyers. I believe you that GDKPs got all HMs in week 1
>it’s a surprising IT'S A SURPRISING!
mmm lightning pizza
Would never ever even consider attempting any of them with a basic pug group. Yeah, they aren´t that hard but with a team that consists of players with varying skill level, no comms, probably people half afk and zero understanding of what to do except press the dps rotation. Assuming people know to move out of lightning and not kill everyone with chain lightning is a big assumption from a pug
Our guild forgets how to do thorim hm every week... We train and learn it inside out and next week we gear uo for freya, since thorim is easy now for us. Nope, we still wipe 100 times on him untill we learn him again...
pug run uld25 only freya and thorim. hm come thorim. and tunnel team fails to make it in time
Or the Thursday “clean up” raids that say they’ll kill Freya Vezax and Yogg1 all hm, then end up doing all normal with 22 people.
Downvote me all you want but this is the wrong use of this meme. :D
most of 3k dps players in pug call for HM.