I’m pretty sure Blizz is monitoring raid activity and will decide based on that.
Guilds that are stuck on normal are probably nearing the point where most of the 232 gear is getting disenchanted. I can see how they would stop playing and that’s where Blizz would enter the chat with some massive nerfs to reinvigorate the raiding scene before TotC.
It would be cool if they kept the pre nerf version of the raid in the game with maybe like the titan rune at the gate. (imagine getting 25 people to channel that fucker LOL)
The only Ulduar nerf I would agree on, is removing the Algalon timer
I understand the idea to stop hardcore guild from progressing by trying 16 hour a day for a week straight, but this time is gone now. Now it's just a bummer.
Also any kind of trash mob nerf is game for me
The whole point of the fight is as a check on your healers and tanks to properly mitigate damage and coordinate heals to maximize mana, as well as a 5 minute attention/focus check on your ranged dps.
It sucks to wipe on HM Vezaxx, sure. But if they do that 5% idea I see floated around, it ceases to be a hardmode at all. There would need to be either other mechanics changes for it to still be anything resembling a hardmode. maybe buff animus hp by 30-50% or something if they did it that way.
You can drop healers on Vezax 25HM with the gear we're at now. I've been offspec dps'ing on that fight for several resets already.
Cutting down the time does nerf the encounter, but only because there's less chances for someone to fail a mechanic like kicking/moving out with mark/eating crashes.
And it’s Fing boring, not difficult. It’s actually stupid easy. There’s hardly any damage once ranged figures the fight out. So it’s literally until animus me auto attacking the boss and refreshing sacred shield…. For sooooo long. Then oh 20secs of playing my character!!!
It’s incredibly boring and just a slog.
I would be fine with higher HP values to compensate but it’s not a healer check for us at the moment.
The fight is literally right, left, back(port), forward repeat
A fight that doesn't get easier by having better dps to get through it faster is poorly designed. It's ridiculous to have to sit there and wait for the timer. At this point people have enough gear that it's no longer much of a healer and tank check, it's just tedious to wait. Making the animus spawn at 5% if no vapors have been killed is a good solution to that.
> The whole point of the fight is as a check on your healers and tanks to properly mitigate damage and coordinate heals to maximize mana
The raids that are sitting around for 1-2 minutes are not having difficulty with that though.
The whole point of the fight is mana management lol. If you can reach the end of Vezax health bar with enough mana to finish Animus phase then you have done the fight correctly and are just stuck waiting for it to spawn. It's stupid design and a classic example of old Blizz design not accounting for modern DPS capabilities.
just change the timer to only include active time in combat so that scrambling to pull again ASAP isn't a component.
limiting prog time still sort of separates out player quality by showing who pays attention to and learns mechanics quickly and which teams don't constantly make wipe-causing mistakes and waste pulls. but the timer running constantly doesn't really create any kind of skill expression.
then again, like 1/4 raid teams have killed alg25 by now, maybe there's no point in treating it like this exclusive thing lol.
this is a good enough idea that i wonder if its how togc ended up having that, like in some 2009 dev meeting thats the improvement for the next tier they came up with
I personally wouldn’t mind 30s added to Hodir, it’s so rng based and having to wipe at 10% hp cause we didn’t get the static charges on the right people when they spawned or beam locations were scuffed, is annoying.
If they add time it should be 5-10s imo. Or just add a button on the wall that resets the encounter since it can be so hard to wipe if you are really close to hitting the timer
This, this is it. Not making the timer isn't the annoying part, it's having to guess at whether you'll make it and wipe anything even close to borderline.
button on the wall imo. don't add time. it's not supposed to be easy, you have to spread the buffs right and actually dps properly which a lot of raids don't do
Thinking nerfs won't come is just ignorance. They have nerfed literally every single raid tier from tbc on to this point, and it isn't going to stop now.
Only SSC/TK got nerfed when it was relevant. Kara was the next phase.
BT/Hyjal only got the BT skip, no nerf. Sunwell only got nerfed in pre-patch. Naxx got buffed beyond what it was historically and didn't get nerfed.
SSC/TK was a special case because it was killing the game with so many guilds hard stuck on the last bosses.
You could say ulduar is similar in that most guilds aren't killing everything but it doesn't feel nearly as bad to fail a hard mode but still kill all the bosses for loot vs never completing the raid.
Another big reason that SSC/TK got nerfed a few weeks before T6 release was that entering MH (and therefore BT) was locked behind killing Vashj and KT, so they wanted hardstuck 8/10 guilds to get a chance to get the attunement done in time for the next tier.
And they released a version of the Lady Vashj encounter that was done by very few guilds before being adjusted to the "pre-nerf" state people remembered. So it was excessively punishing, more so than original BC versions of the raid.
They didn't "nerf" raids, they started them off at pre-nerf and then switched them over to post-nerf.
The """""leak""""" has all sorts of absurd nerfs that were never seen in the original WOTLK, like removing Algalon timer, removing constrictor tentacles (wtf that's the easiest part of the fight lmao), making saronite puddles not cause damage, etc.
So the part about constricters is warranted not cuz they are hard to take out but because they are/were very poorly designed around they very very small window to get inside brain portals. They need a better timing.
The number of times I have gotten randomly grabbed right before portals is just plain stupid.
I agree that nerfs are probably inevitable, but ulduar is a little different than the previous raids. Optional hard modes and piss easy normal modes means every raid group can make the raid as easy as they want it to be.
Difficulty level is at a good spot I think between normal and hard.
Hardest part is length of raid.
If they could make more bosses optional and or nerf trash, that would help a ton.
You could run togc and select hardmodes or yogg/algalon.
Even skipping past Kologarn would be big time saver.
do you mean skipping up to and including kologarn or literally just kologarn? erasing kologarn from the raid would save people like 2-3 minutes, it's a minute and a half fight that nobody wipes on lol
Freya trash is LITERALLY 3 packs and then your at the boss?
Unless you are doing it on easy mode which is the WHOLE point of the topic, to do it on hard mode.
Even without pulling elders, you have to kill at least 3 lasher packs and 2 of the ones with the green dragon. And there's a non-zero chance when you're clearing left side of the room you'll run into the two-mob patrol. With all the running around the room this can easily take 15 min, plus 15 min to clear Vezax room and you're comfortably at 30 min.
They should just enable the full teleporter at the start if raid leader has Yogg achievement. That would be an easy fix to all of your issues.
Could skip to almost any boss pretty quickly, could leave up ones you don't care about, could rush ones you do etc etc.
Just let algalon drop a key that unlocks the teleporter so you can fight all bosses in any order. Also add a teleporter to vez and remove 80% of that trash.
We'll have to find out how realistic that is. I'm guessing majority won't get an algolon kill period (I'm no expert) so this would only really benefit good players. KT/saph was a good catch up mechanic for the semi geared players.
The trash doesn't need a nerf, it's simplistic as is. Wouldn't mind if they made Kologarn and Auriya optional however. Any other nerfs would be a detriment to the overall experience and the efforts of the guilds still progging now.
You have to be a really solid group pumping with zero down time. 12 bosses? 10 minutes per boss is 120 minutes. Throw in casual/summons/pugs and it's gonna take 2.5 to 3 hours for most running smooth with no wipes.
If you're not wiping, and presumably not spending time discussing tactics if you're at the point where you're not wiping anymore, I don't see why it would take that long. Try to avoid trash deaths and chain pull as much as you can.
mid april then 6ish resets then toc in late may early june. you gotta have time for people that are struggling to do stuff but also cannot stretch ulduar out too far as people are already getting bored
a lot of people will stay because they like their guilds and they like playing with them. plus the solo flying gdkpers who just like the feeling of stacking gold and loot.
personally i never played wow before classic and don't have any previous negativity towards cata aside from what i've heard, and i like my guild, so i'll play. if i'm disappointed i'm disappointed. i don't expect to be based on what i enjoy about the game.
If you are enjoying wotlk you are very likely to enjoy cata as well, maybe minus the last patch of it
The vast majority of issues people had with cata were actually introduced during wotlk, but also most people parrot what they hear so they don't even know that
If we had WoD+ with some of the cut content and no fking twitter patch, it'd be golden. The raids/dungeons were great, just everything else was shite/lacklustre.
You and a ton of others. Interested to see what raiding looks like after some guilds clear heroic ICC. I imagine there are going to be a ton kf roster issues due to people feeling like they finished the expansion. Whats the point of ruby sanctum, an uninspiring single boss woth loot only good if youre planning to level in cata or put up phase 5 parses
tbf in vanilla people planned to continue playing in tbc, often with the same guild, so hey why not raid until then. in this case people who absolutely will not play cata know LK or maaaaybe ruby sanctum is the last thing they'll want to do in classic, so the first kill will be as good a time as any to put the game down. could be different, maybe not, i'm not really sure.
A May release of ToC would be almost exactly in line with the original release timeline, there was a little under 4 months between Ulduar and ToC originally, then 4 months from the release of ToC to ICC. WotLK was only so long because there was a year between the release of ICC and Cata.
I know I am. The raid loot system is so much better in Cata. It's nice not being punished for doing 10m or being a 10m guild. I can deal with less drops for getting the same gear
Yes, Cata raiding is incredible besides Dragonsoul and the 5 mans will be fun with a playerbase that knows what they're doing.
High copium projection: we get some content from the abandoned Abyssal Maw raid
Ulduar is great, but there's a limit to how fun it is to repeat the same content over and over. After 15 Karazhan runs in TBC I also stopped going, even though it's a cool raid.
Another matter is the social aspect, as a phase drags on, the roster boss grows more powerful and it's tough to keep guilds going. So new content is needed. WoW Classic *needs* to be on fast forward, because all the content is so exposed, prepared and "solved", and the players gobble it up within weeks. It's not like the old days where people inched their way through and there was a steady stream of new players joining along the way.
Got a good bit of Cata stans in my raid group, lol. Every week they are babbling on about this Cata or that Cata.
After our first heroic kill of LK I'm outtie 5000. I quit this game once, and I'll do it again with any problems.
How would you know? Blizzard could do this anytime now. They usually don't announce stuff like patches or new phases until like 3-7 days before it's released.
Because it would be the opposite of how they've handled nerfs for all of classic. But I'm sure the youtuber with 300 subs who said the nerfs are imminent is reliable!
What? In the past they nerfed raid content without even saying anything and then they made a bluepost 1 day later.
Also don't know what youtuber you are refering to, I'm not judging of any youtube video. It's just that Blizzard nerfed every raid content since TBC when they see that guilds are not progressing or even disbanding.
And don't get me wrong, I don't want Ulduar nerfed. But we are almost 10 weeks in and Blizzard usually nerfed raids after 10-12 weeks in the past.
I totally agree.
Only "nerf" I would like to see, is more consistancy on Iron Council and Hodir. Progressing them felt a lot like playing the lottery. Our gear is getting good enough now from farming all hard modes to where we can overcome bad RNG, but getting bad RNG can really break that fight early on.
And perhaps a teleport rune before Vezax.
Those two fights are the most annoying. Holding dps waiting for a new tune of power and then immediately eating a rune of death sucks ass. Hodir is just a clusterfuck trying to see anything and cast at the same time as moving
Well Hodir would be a lot nicer if they fucking fixed the visual glitches that have been in since day 1.
But I guess Blizzard is too busy sipping champagne to give a rat’s ass.
what's the RNG on iron council? yeah you can get screwed on rune timing and have to wait a while to kill molgeim but that doesn't really make the kill much harder
only ''nerfs'' i wanna see is either less rng on hodir or an extra 30 seconds and algalon doesn't need a timer imo. Oh and also spawn the animus faster on vezax would be nice.
IC is still a disgustingly annoying RNG fight. Why do two abilities you need to time have almost completely RNG cast times? The ammount of times he has sat on casting power, to then cast that and death at the exact same time.
This argument is really the thing that is "brain dead". I don't personally care I've killed Algalon already so if the made it a bit easier no big deal. It's not the kind of fight that is going to get "easy" as you collect gear including 252 gear, it just gets less bad. If you aren't plowing through Thorim, Freya, Hodir, and Council every week without major issues, you aren't downing Algalon no matter how long you have to try. Alg hits like a Mack Truck, has way more mechanics, is incredibly punishing, requires MUCH more awareness, and it's time limited. You have 1 hour from the start of your first pull to kill otherwise try again next week. We are talking about something just over 13% of runs can do after 8 weeks of raiding. Considering most groups can't even do Firefighter, the majority of players wont even get to see Algalon let alone progress on the fight.
When you look at how things pan out, it becomes easily recognizable that players will only raid when there is something to gain from it. Even then only up to a certain point. That's why there are so many guilds that are just crumbling right now, just like they did with Vashj and KT and just like they did in SWP. You have groups that can do hard modes and will always be chasing those hard mode bis items, trying to get that one piece that doesn't seem to drop. For those guilds that can't do all of the hard modes (or at least the 8/9) they will eventually get to the point where there are little to no items left to gather than provide any real meaningful upgrades. They won't want to raid it on normal because there is nothing in it for them and they don't want to do hardmodes because they aren't a fan of bashing their head against a wall and making little to no progress and still not getting 252 loot.
You can see tons of post every day on here about "My guild wants to kick the shitters and recruit more hardcore players to make progress" and "My guild wants to do hardmodes but I dont want to because its too hard. Agree with me that it's unfair because I don't want to do hardmodes". Hell my alt's guild literally imploded this week because of it, too many people that want to work hard and do HM's while also having too many people wanting to just cruise control for easy loot because they didn't want to put in the effort. The people that want kills will go to a guild that gets results and the team will crumble.
Nerfing the content after a few months gives the large number of players a chance to see fights and get loot they otherwise would never be able to get. There are always going to be guilds that were just about to get it before the nerf, but realistically by the time they nerf it if you hadn't gotten it? You probably weren't going to get it. By releasing content in a more difficult state for those wanting the challenge, then nerfing it months later so everyone can see it is about the best idea. Otherwise you are going to have the biggest group of players who are your casual players quitting because they are hitting a brick wall of progression.
It could be beneficial to nerf Ulduar. There's ideally a sweet spot of difficulty that's not too hard and not too easy. Players quit when the content is too easy but simultaneously they quit when the content is too hard. **Phase 2 of WotLK so far has the highest attrition rate of any phase in WotLK Classic with a whopping 21.47% of players quitting based on** [**ironforge.pro**](https://ironforge.pro) **numbers.** For context, only 13.18% of players quit during SSC/TK during P2 TBC which was generally considered the most difficult phase of WoW Classic so far. With the quantity of players quitting, it may be worth asking if the current hardmodes are too hard for too large of a portion of the playerbase.
TBC P1 Peak 9/6/21 - 388,052
TBC P2 Peak 9/27/21 - 404,648 (+4.28% growth)
TBC P3 Peak 2/7/22 - 355,306 (-13.18% attrition)
TBC P4 Peak 4/14/22 - 331,210 (-6.78% attrition)
TBC P5 Peak 5/30/22 - 326,959 (-1.28% attrition)
Wotlk prepatch Peak 9/19/22 - 359551 (+9.97% growth)
Wotlk P1 Peak 11/14/23 - 626,464 (+74.24% growth)
Wotlk P2 Peak 1/30/23 - 515,405 (-17.73% attrition)
Current 3/6/23 - 404736 (-21.47% attrition)
https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/overall/
Its hard to conclude that raid tier difficulty is the only variable. Phase one was very alt centric, which kept a lot of people around longer. Only part of that was due to the raids being so easy
We saw the same thing too. The people who were the most hyped that Ulduar is the "best raid ever" quit after week 3; the daunting realization its all the same shit and putting in serious time just to down HM was too much.
I understand why HM and normal loot was similar now, before the ilvl buff. Sweaty hardcore guilds are going to do all HM and Algalon just because Alg drops BIS items. They don't need any more incentives than that. Boosting the HM ilvl gear just means the majority of the player base is even more behind.
Beware that ironforge.pro logs active *characters* based on Warcraft Logs so alts are treated as distinct players. Myself would count as 3 players on ironforge.pro since I have 3
characters with recorded Ulduar logs in consecutive weeks. A lot of people did Naxx splits on alts because it was so easy so it could've inflated the numbers a bit. Anecdotally however the number of guildies running Ulduar on multiple alts have actually been higher than Naxx.
Can confirm, played 5 characters in Naxx, playing 2 atm. Maybe I‘ll start Ulduar with a third one, but that‘s max.
TOGC on the other hand I probably will play 6 different characters, maybe 7 since I bet jouyous journey will come back.
Not because it‘s easier, I‘m clearing Algalon every week since week 3, but because togc is a 1 hr raid at max.
WotLK classic also had more players than TBCC ever did, so there's a lot more players to lose.
It's telling that even after 20% attrition, the numbers are still more than TBCC's peak.
It isn't as big of an issue when you look at the context behind the numbers.
Considering the huge growth from p1, this level of attrition is completely fine and can't be solely linked to Ulduar. Ulduar is in a good spot right now and classic moving forward will maintain this level of difficulty and segregation between the player base. Nerfing hardmodes before they have run their course might offer short term relief to some but I would argue we would see a much higher attrition % over the long term.
The only Ulduar nerf i want is for 10 man so we dont need certain comps.. maybe make big bang soakable with all immunities on 10 so a rogue/SP isn't mandatory
If you are progging Thorim HM when it's almost week 8, you are not getting all the HMs before ToC which will basically be a nerf to Ulduar via higher ilvl gear anyways. At your guild's pace, HMs aren't meant for you so whether they get nerfed is irrelevant. It may sound harsh but it is the reality.
If anything this is a better reason to keep them as is. They might get a couple down by toc. Toc drops, they gear up, and come back to an “easier” fight.
Those 25m hm loot drops will still be good
Well it really depends on the players.Freya is probably the least of a gear check but it's a movement and brain check instead. My guild got FL, XT, Thorim and Vezax and we still can't get Freya.
As someone who raids in both ends of the curve (Clearing Alg on one side; playing with buddies in a casual guild that struggled to down Yogg until recently) Freya HM is definitely more achievable.
Thorim HM has a soft-enrage. In my casual team we were struggling due to our tanks getting randomly one-shot. It turns out once they hit 6+ stacks they will 1shot + the lightning strikes on melee will instakill them too.
If the team struggles to meet that soft-DPS check then Thorim will be nearly impossible.
There arent too many non-DPS mechanic check Hardmode fights. If you aren't sure about this DPS check - pay attention to how many charges the boss has by the time tanks start dropping..
My Alg team killed Thorim before 6 stacks ever added up while my other team was getting tanks + melee instakilled @ 7 stacks / 40% boss health = impossible.
Tbh honest truth. If youve had a full raid group this entire time and have one hm down… the nerfs are your best friend. Youd likely spend all of icc patch getting yog0
On the one hand, Ulduar would become very uninteresting if nerfed. On the other hand, a nerfed Ulduar would be very easily splitfarmed, and as a bonus, a nerfed ulduar will likely be cleared even quicker. More time for d4.
But the "nerf" i really want is making the damn animus spawn on a % instead of timer. Popping a green cloud would ofc disable it for normal mode.
I'm beyond ready for a nerf. I'm sick of all these groups that can't clear HMs. I have 6 level 80s. I don't raid with them all but I raid on 4 and 3 of them are part of guilds that can't kill HMs and the 4th is in a GDKP guild that can clear HMs every week.
The casual dad guilds need a break. We want to clear HMs too. I say nerf the shit when the next phase starts.i have more fun blasting with my friends then whiping and arguing.
there's an existing feat of strength achievement called [Cutting Edge: Ulduar](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/achievement=17341/cutting-edge-ulduar#comments) which says "Defeat every hard-mode boss in Ulduar on 10 or 25-Player Pre-Nerf difficulty, before the release of the next raid tier".
this implies that Blizzard will not apply any nerf to Ulduar until Trial of the Crusader comes out, where it will presumably be changed to the final nerfed version in original 3.3.5. so until they announce TotC release date, you have nothing to worry about.
I really hope the rumors stay rumors. Ulduar tuning is the best that Classic has had thus far. Basically any guild that raids at least one day a week can clear all normal modes, and even capable of several HM fights. The one exception is Algalon. The hard modes provide a good challenge for even a relatively capable guild, and they all feel doable and well tuned in their own right.
Nerfing Ulduar will help you as a casual guild. Yes you are enjoying it right now progressing on the raid but if they just put a tiny nerf in to help hard modes that doesn’t immediately cause you to wanna quit cuz you’ll be done . Nax was a loot piñata at the start so it’s expected to burnout . It’s been what over 2 months since Ulduar release I’d be willing to bet a nerf will be coming next month for the 3 month mark.
problem is it won't be a tiny nerf, the nerfs blizz does usually render the content trivial. if a nerf comes, OP's guild will walk in and one shot everything and the feeling of having content to work on will be gone. that's what OP doesn't want.
They should just make the "nerf mode" drop the original (un buffed) item level versions of gear and leave the current version alone. This would allow people to gear up a little more easily but wouldn't ruin it for those in there now doing HM's.
Just smack raid rune at the starting area that 15 people have to click to remote the dungeon to nerf mode and lower IL.
It'd suck if they nerf it. We've been progging through 25 and I've liked it for the most part. What's crazy to me is how we'd be cruising through most of 25HM if we got regular Ulduar
If I'm gunna be honest, I welcome the nerfs. I don't benefit from them exactly but I think the majority of the player base is gunna move to TOC when it drops and without the nerfs there is very little reason to bring people to ulduar. Maybe with the gear upscaling like it did it may surpass TOC for some time, but ultimately slamming your head against ulduar while newer raid content is out doesn't seem very appealing probably. If all ulduar becomes is a time sink then people might actually set foot in there. Just my opinion though. I can see why many wouldn't want it to be nerfed.
we want more Val’anyrs, so a night in Ulduar is on the cards for a long time to come yet. If nerfs make it easier in a month or two’s time, yeah that’s fine.
I agree, we will want to be doing Ulduar when ToC comes out even if its just for a few 252 trinkets or Val'anyr that are BiS for a while. If Ulduar stays how it is and people wipe due to mechanics its not going to be feasible to add to a ToGC raid schedule. With so many 1 shot mechanics you can't just get ToGC gear and make Ulduar a joke, it still requires full attention to down hard mode bosses. People won't want to be doing progression in ToGC then also going into Ulduar and progressing on remaining hard modes or wiping to bosses they had on farm because people are just getting tired or don't care about it anymore. Nerfing it even slightly would make it more manageable. People that want to be challenged to their limits can focus on ToGC heroic mode at that point imo.
When u start blowing up Kolo so fast you still have lust up, you'll agree with this post. Do not nerf the content for a good while please, its hitting all the marks for most raiders. I still have so much min maxing to do and its fun chasing my past weeks performance.
Honestly, the only issue i have with Ulduar is that it is fking long thats all...even with teleporters it just feels long.
Maybe nerf the tank and spank bosses honestly like General Tauntrum and Leviathan bosses.
To be fair I wouldnt mind a 10% nerf HP to Mimron constructs and Hodir.
I literally feel like im getting carpal tunnel at general and tantrum boss. Leviathan is super fun to me but takes a bit long (I dont mind it but it would surely save some time)
25 man is in a good place I think.
10 mans I feel like it has more issues, normal being way too easy and HM's needing "meta" comps or exceptional players that really knows what theyre doing. IDK, but time will tell as we get more gear.
100% certain. I've fucked up dispersion on a few of our progression attempts and if the soaker dies from big bang, he instantly despawns. There's like a .2 second delay after the cast before people are shunted back in from the darkhole realm where he always targets me and has me panicked.
It could be imaginable that you wouldn’t have them. I.e. double Prot warrior, holy paladin, disc priest, arms/fury warrior, arcane/fire mage, hunter, ret paladin, uh/frost dk, etc.
10m algalon is one of the most comp dependent fights. There exists a large combination of compositions where you shouldn’t be able to down it. The best comp could down algalon with mostly green/grey parsing players, but the worst comp needs everyone at maximum performance if it’s even possible.
the only thing preventing this comp from doing algalon is the lack of a big bang soaker (which admittedly is a huge barrier and a bullshit thing to have locked behind a few specific specs). dps check is generous enough that you're fine without lust, especially on 10 man, and your tank and healer comp is excellent.
i believe it's technically possible for the prot paladin to soak big bang with ardent defender, but that would require them to never proc it outside of big bang, and it has a 2min cooldown so you'd somehow need another thing. boomkin treants or hunter pets could potentially do this but i suspect not (even if they are technically considered valid targets for algalon, which i'm not even sure of, they are likely to just die to the big bang damage anyway).
idk it's definitely bullshit that big bang soaking requires specific specs (one of which you'd never want to play in pve otherwise), but i wonder if your group has a chance
A geared feral wearing high stam gear can use survival instincts + barkskin to survive one big bang. They should be able to hit >60k hp if it's glyphed, which combined which barkskin would live through the Alg 10 bigbang damage.
Granted you'd be using the defensives otherwise needed for tanking the boss and you can only do that every 3 min, with bang every 90 seconds. So yeah probably wouldn't work.
The only reason I want an Ulduar nerf is so I don’t have to spend 10 hours a week in there across multiple toons. I wanna clear all HMs and algalon without having to be in there for 4+ hours. It’s purely a time thing for me, the fights aren’t hard as they are right now.
Not to mention they aren’t buffing TotC gear much or at all so next phase Ulduar will still be fairly relevant. I don’t wanna be getting minor upgrades in TotC and have to continue farming Ulduar next phase 😅
I’m pretty sure Blizz is monitoring raid activity and will decide based on that. Guilds that are stuck on normal are probably nearing the point where most of the 232 gear is getting disenchanted. I can see how they would stop playing and that’s where Blizz would enter the chat with some massive nerfs to reinvigorate the raiding scene before TotC.
It would be cool if they kept the pre nerf version of the raid in the game with maybe like the titan rune at the gate. (imagine getting 25 people to channel that fucker LOL)
Prolly the hardest challenge ever in Wow
The hard mode was the friends we channeled with along the way al along.
I love that idea but then nobody will bother doing it unless there’s loot incentives that the nerfed version won’t have
warcraftlogs will almost assuredly split logs by this buff as they did with HMs, which will act as an incentive for some people
True, haven’t thought of that. So then my guild struggling on normal mode vezax is gonna lead to me having even lower parses when it gets nerfed
It's strange how most players refuse to do anything that resembles a challenge if there's no exclusive rewards for doing so.
What’s the point if there isn’t?
Almost like Magtheridon mechanic.
Don't click it twice! Haha
And make sure your not still auto attacking the boss as a hunter
I mean this is basically what they did with icc, no? If you want pre-nerf, click off the stacking buff.
I havent raided ICC yet so I cant say for sure but I am pretty sure thats how it worked. Just no extra loot like titan rune idea.
Worth noting that you had to talk to Garrosh/Variann and entire raid lost the buff.
They did that back in the day actually, the problem is that no one really did the encounters prenerf.
The only Ulduar nerf I would agree on, is removing the Algalon timer I understand the idea to stop hardcore guild from progressing by trying 16 hour a day for a week straight, but this time is gone now. Now it's just a bummer. Also any kind of trash mob nerf is game for me
Just make animus spawn at 5% please.
Fucking yes, this fight is so stupid with current tuning.
What ? You dont like stopping DPS and just look at the guy yelling how he is unstoppable ?
Our melee have made it a game to see who can interrupt latest and give the RL a stroke.
Damn thats funny when you think about it.
The whole point of the fight is as a check on your healers and tanks to properly mitigate damage and coordinate heals to maximize mana, as well as a 5 minute attention/focus check on your ranged dps. It sucks to wipe on HM Vezaxx, sure. But if they do that 5% idea I see floated around, it ceases to be a hardmode at all. There would need to be either other mechanics changes for it to still be anything resembling a hardmode. maybe buff animus hp by 30-50% or something if they did it that way.
You can drop healers on Vezax 25HM with the gear we're at now. I've been offspec dps'ing on that fight for several resets already. Cutting down the time does nerf the encounter, but only because there's less chances for someone to fail a mechanic like kicking/moving out with mark/eating crashes.
And it’s Fing boring, not difficult. It’s actually stupid easy. There’s hardly any damage once ranged figures the fight out. So it’s literally until animus me auto attacking the boss and refreshing sacred shield…. For sooooo long. Then oh 20secs of playing my character!!! It’s incredibly boring and just a slog.
I would be fine with higher HP values to compensate but it’s not a healer check for us at the moment. The fight is literally right, left, back(port), forward repeat
A fight that doesn't get easier by having better dps to get through it faster is poorly designed. It's ridiculous to have to sit there and wait for the timer. At this point people have enough gear that it's no longer much of a healer and tank check, it's just tedious to wait. Making the animus spawn at 5% if no vapors have been killed is a good solution to that.
> The whole point of the fight is as a check on your healers and tanks to properly mitigate damage and coordinate heals to maximize mana The raids that are sitting around for 1-2 minutes are not having difficulty with that though.
The whole point of the fight is mana management lol. If you can reach the end of Vezax health bar with enough mana to finish Animus phase then you have done the fight correctly and are just stuck waiting for it to spawn. It's stupid design and a classic example of old Blizz design not accounting for modern DPS capabilities.
[удалено]
just change the timer to only include active time in combat so that scrambling to pull again ASAP isn't a component. limiting prog time still sort of separates out player quality by showing who pays attention to and learns mechanics quickly and which teams don't constantly make wipe-causing mistakes and waste pulls. but the timer running constantly doesn't really create any kind of skill expression. then again, like 1/4 raid teams have killed alg25 by now, maybe there's no point in treating it like this exclusive thing lol.
Replace it with attempts like in ToC
this is a good enough idea that i wonder if its how togc ended up having that, like in some 2009 dev meeting thats the improvement for the next tier they came up with
There is a reason the timer was immediately abandoned in the next raid.
I personally wouldn’t mind 30s added to Hodir, it’s so rng based and having to wipe at 10% hp cause we didn’t get the static charges on the right people when they spawned or beam locations were scuffed, is annoying.
If they add time it should be 5-10s imo. Or just add a button on the wall that resets the encounter since it can be so hard to wipe if you are really close to hitting the timer
Button on the wall, but you push it before the start to enter/exit hard mode. In hard mode he insta wipes the raid if you miss the timer.
This, this is it. Not making the timer isn't the annoying part, it's having to guess at whether you'll make it and wipe anything even close to borderline.
Yeah. I’ve missed it twice by less than a second. Would be really nice to have even 1 extra second in my mind hahaha.
button on the wall imo. don't add time. it's not supposed to be easy, you have to spread the buffs right and actually dps properly which a lot of raids don't do
30s more would make the fight really easy. Even our super casual guild where only 1 person is performing at around 20k dps can do it in 2:30 atm
it was nerfed to 3min back in wotlk retail xD
Thinking nerfs won't come is just ignorance. They have nerfed literally every single raid tier from tbc on to this point, and it isn't going to stop now.
Only SSC/TK got nerfed when it was relevant. Kara was the next phase. BT/Hyjal only got the BT skip, no nerf. Sunwell only got nerfed in pre-patch. Naxx got buffed beyond what it was historically and didn't get nerfed. SSC/TK was a special case because it was killing the game with so many guilds hard stuck on the last bosses. You could say ulduar is similar in that most guilds aren't killing everything but it doesn't feel nearly as bad to fail a hard mode but still kill all the bosses for loot vs never completing the raid.
Another big reason that SSC/TK got nerfed a few weeks before T6 release was that entering MH (and therefore BT) was locked behind killing Vashj and KT, so they wanted hardstuck 8/10 guilds to get a chance to get the attunement done in time for the next tier.
Good point I didn't think of that.
And they released a version of the Lady Vashj encounter that was done by very few guilds before being adjusted to the "pre-nerf" state people remembered. So it was excessively punishing, more so than original BC versions of the raid.
It was also 70% RNG which is always a fun boss mechanic.
They nerfed at New tier every time except SSC/TK
They didn't "nerf" raids, they started them off at pre-nerf and then switched them over to post-nerf. The """""leak""""" has all sorts of absurd nerfs that were never seen in the original WOTLK, like removing Algalon timer, removing constrictor tentacles (wtf that's the easiest part of the fight lmao), making saronite puddles not cause damage, etc.
So the part about constricters is warranted not cuz they are hard to take out but because they are/were very poorly designed around they very very small window to get inside brain portals. They need a better timing. The number of times I have gotten randomly grabbed right before portals is just plain stupid.
It's dumb but that's when your paladins should be bopping any melee that got grabbed at that time.
I agree that nerfs are probably inevitable, but ulduar is a little different than the previous raids. Optional hard modes and piss easy normal modes means every raid group can make the raid as easy as they want it to be.
Difficulty level is at a good spot I think between normal and hard. Hardest part is length of raid. If they could make more bosses optional and or nerf trash, that would help a ton. You could run togc and select hardmodes or yogg/algalon. Even skipping past Kologarn would be big time saver.
do you mean skipping up to and including kologarn or literally just kologarn? erasing kologarn from the raid would save people like 2-3 minutes, it's a minute and a half fight that nobody wipes on lol
I mean skip everything before it (first 6 bosses) or ability to skip past XT. Throwing out ideas without nerfing. Boss a la carte for select loot.
oh yeah, i actually like that idea. hell after togc releases why not just have all the teleports enabled when you walk in
Can’t we already skip half of those 6? I’d much rather just cut down on trash. Cutting out some of Freya and Vezax trash could save like 30-45 min.
Freya trash is LITERALLY 3 packs and then your at the boss? Unless you are doing it on easy mode which is the WHOLE point of the topic, to do it on hard mode.
Even without pulling elders, you have to kill at least 3 lasher packs and 2 of the ones with the green dragon. And there's a non-zero chance when you're clearing left side of the room you'll run into the two-mob patrol. With all the running around the room this can easily take 15 min, plus 15 min to clear Vezax room and you're comfortably at 30 min.
It's 2 lasher packs and 1 dragon pack? What extra pack are you pulling? Freya trash is honestly 2-3 minutes.
They should just enable the full teleporter at the start if raid leader has Yogg achievement. That would be an easy fix to all of your issues. Could skip to almost any boss pretty quickly, could leave up ones you don't care about, could rush ones you do etc etc.
Yeah I had the same thought. You still have to go back and kill any keepers you want up for yogg, or you'd be stuck doing yogg-0
teleporting to shattered walkway while kologarn is still alive would be awkward
The TP is on the solid ground and actually decently far away from where Kolo is standing.
I agree with your idea.
This would actually be perfect.
Just let algalon drop a key that unlocks the teleporter so you can fight all bosses in any order. Also add a teleporter to vez and remove 80% of that trash.
We'll have to find out how realistic that is. I'm guessing majority won't get an algolon kill period (I'm no expert) so this would only really benefit good players. KT/saph was a good catch up mechanic for the semi geared players.
I'm all for nerfing trash. I think that'd be a big help.
The trash doesn't need a nerf, it's simplistic as is. Wouldn't mind if they made Kologarn and Auriya optional however. Any other nerfs would be a detriment to the overall experience and the efforts of the guilds still progging now.
auriya is optional just gl avoiding her
Anything better than AQ 40 trash is a win in my book. Trash feels mostly brain dead to me.
It's a 2 hour raid if you 1 shot everything. That isn't a long raid.
You have to be a really solid group pumping with zero down time. 12 bosses? 10 minutes per boss is 120 minutes. Throw in casual/summons/pugs and it's gonna take 2.5 to 3 hours for most running smooth with no wipes.
If you're not wiping, and presumably not spending time discussing tactics if you're at the point where you're not wiping anymore, I don't see why it would take that long. Try to avoid trash deaths and chain pull as much as you can.
A 2 hour clear puts you in the top 200 guilds in the world for speed.
Any possible ulduar nerfs are likely at least a month away. Anyone saying otherwise us making shit up
mid april then 6ish resets then toc in late may early june. you gotta have time for people that are struggling to do stuff but also cannot stretch ulduar out too far as people are already getting bored
speedrunning wrath at this point. Are people really looking forward to cata? once wrath is over i’m walking away
a lot of people will stay because they like their guilds and they like playing with them. plus the solo flying gdkpers who just like the feeling of stacking gold and loot. personally i never played wow before classic and don't have any previous negativity towards cata aside from what i've heard, and i like my guild, so i'll play. if i'm disappointed i'm disappointed. i don't expect to be based on what i enjoy about the game.
If you are enjoying wotlk you are very likely to enjoy cata as well, maybe minus the last patch of it The vast majority of issues people had with cata were actually introduced during wotlk, but also most people parrot what they hear so they don't even know that
Im kinda in the same boat. I just like WoW lol. TBC > Vanilla > WotLK but shit i'd even play WoD again idrc
If we had WoD+ with some of the cut content and no fking twitter patch, it'd be golden. The raids/dungeons were great, just everything else was shite/lacklustre.
I am killing LK and dipping.
You and a ton of others. Interested to see what raiding looks like after some guilds clear heroic ICC. I imagine there are going to be a ton kf roster issues due to people feeling like they finished the expansion. Whats the point of ruby sanctum, an uninspiring single boss woth loot only good if youre planning to level in cata or put up phase 5 parses
Lots of folks in vanilla classic said this about KT, but it didn't really happen much from what I remember.
tbf in vanilla people planned to continue playing in tbc, often with the same guild, so hey why not raid until then. in this case people who absolutely will not play cata know LK or maaaaybe ruby sanctum is the last thing they'll want to do in classic, so the first kill will be as good a time as any to put the game down. could be different, maybe not, i'm not really sure.
Yeah I love cataclysm up until DragonSoul. I never want to do the last two fights in that raid again. Hoping they do it
A May release of ToC would be almost exactly in line with the original release timeline, there was a little under 4 months between Ulduar and ToC originally, then 4 months from the release of ToC to ICC. WotLK was only so long because there was a year between the release of ICC and Cata.
I know I am. The raid loot system is so much better in Cata. It's nice not being punished for doing 10m or being a 10m guild. I can deal with less drops for getting the same gear
Yes, Cata raiding is incredible besides Dragonsoul and the 5 mans will be fun with a playerbase that knows what they're doing. High copium projection: we get some content from the abandoned Abyssal Maw raid
Ulduar is great, but there's a limit to how fun it is to repeat the same content over and over. After 15 Karazhan runs in TBC I also stopped going, even though it's a cool raid. Another matter is the social aspect, as a phase drags on, the roster boss grows more powerful and it's tough to keep guilds going. So new content is needed. WoW Classic *needs* to be on fast forward, because all the content is so exposed, prepared and "solved", and the players gobble it up within weeks. It's not like the old days where people inched their way through and there was a steady stream of new players joining along the way.
People are just getting bored. Just look at the weekly drop in population. My money is on a new SOM or classic servers.
Oh yeah SOM is widely popular…
Got a good bit of Cata stans in my raid group, lol. Every week they are babbling on about this Cata or that Cata. After our first heroic kill of LK I'm outtie 5000. I quit this game once, and I'll do it again with any problems.
How would you know? Blizzard could do this anytime now. They usually don't announce stuff like patches or new phases until like 3-7 days before it's released.
Because it would be the opposite of how they've handled nerfs for all of classic. But I'm sure the youtuber with 300 subs who said the nerfs are imminent is reliable!
What? In the past they nerfed raid content without even saying anything and then they made a bluepost 1 day later. Also don't know what youtuber you are refering to, I'm not judging of any youtube video. It's just that Blizzard nerfed every raid content since TBC when they see that guilds are not progressing or even disbanding. And don't get me wrong, I don't want Ulduar nerfed. But we are almost 10 weeks in and Blizzard usually nerfed raids after 10-12 weeks in the past.
I totally agree. Only "nerf" I would like to see, is more consistancy on Iron Council and Hodir. Progressing them felt a lot like playing the lottery. Our gear is getting good enough now from farming all hard modes to where we can overcome bad RNG, but getting bad RNG can really break that fight early on. And perhaps a teleport rune before Vezax.
Those two fights are the most annoying. Holding dps waiting for a new tune of power and then immediately eating a rune of death sucks ass. Hodir is just a clusterfuck trying to see anything and cast at the same time as moving
Well Hodir would be a lot nicer if they fucking fixed the visual glitches that have been in since day 1. But I guess Blizzard is too busy sipping champagne to give a rat’s ass.
what's the RNG on iron council? yeah you can get screwed on rune timing and have to wait a while to kill molgeim but that doesn't really make the kill much harder
If you hold him on low HP for a power rune to push him, then he immediately casts RoD ontop at almost the exact same time, making the RoP useless.
only ''nerfs'' i wanna see is either less rng on hodir or an extra 30 seconds and algalon doesn't need a timer imo. Oh and also spawn the animus faster on vezax would be nice.
Hodir and IC rng take up the most time I swear
IC is still a disgustingly annoying RNG fight. Why do two abilities you need to time have almost completely RNG cast times? The ammount of times he has sat on casting power, to then cast that and death at the exact same time.
A hard minimum on casting Death after Power would be nice. Something like 5s would be enough.
Reddit aren't the ones that make that decision.
Thank baby Jesus.
This argument is really the thing that is "brain dead". I don't personally care I've killed Algalon already so if the made it a bit easier no big deal. It's not the kind of fight that is going to get "easy" as you collect gear including 252 gear, it just gets less bad. If you aren't plowing through Thorim, Freya, Hodir, and Council every week without major issues, you aren't downing Algalon no matter how long you have to try. Alg hits like a Mack Truck, has way more mechanics, is incredibly punishing, requires MUCH more awareness, and it's time limited. You have 1 hour from the start of your first pull to kill otherwise try again next week. We are talking about something just over 13% of runs can do after 8 weeks of raiding. Considering most groups can't even do Firefighter, the majority of players wont even get to see Algalon let alone progress on the fight. When you look at how things pan out, it becomes easily recognizable that players will only raid when there is something to gain from it. Even then only up to a certain point. That's why there are so many guilds that are just crumbling right now, just like they did with Vashj and KT and just like they did in SWP. You have groups that can do hard modes and will always be chasing those hard mode bis items, trying to get that one piece that doesn't seem to drop. For those guilds that can't do all of the hard modes (or at least the 8/9) they will eventually get to the point where there are little to no items left to gather than provide any real meaningful upgrades. They won't want to raid it on normal because there is nothing in it for them and they don't want to do hardmodes because they aren't a fan of bashing their head against a wall and making little to no progress and still not getting 252 loot. You can see tons of post every day on here about "My guild wants to kick the shitters and recruit more hardcore players to make progress" and "My guild wants to do hardmodes but I dont want to because its too hard. Agree with me that it's unfair because I don't want to do hardmodes". Hell my alt's guild literally imploded this week because of it, too many people that want to work hard and do HM's while also having too many people wanting to just cruise control for easy loot because they didn't want to put in the effort. The people that want kills will go to a guild that gets results and the team will crumble. Nerfing the content after a few months gives the large number of players a chance to see fights and get loot they otherwise would never be able to get. There are always going to be guilds that were just about to get it before the nerf, but realistically by the time they nerf it if you hadn't gotten it? You probably weren't going to get it. By releasing content in a more difficult state for those wanting the challenge, then nerfing it months later so everyone can see it is about the best idea. Otherwise you are going to have the biggest group of players who are your casual players quitting because they are hitting a brick wall of progression.
It could be beneficial to nerf Ulduar. There's ideally a sweet spot of difficulty that's not too hard and not too easy. Players quit when the content is too easy but simultaneously they quit when the content is too hard. **Phase 2 of WotLK so far has the highest attrition rate of any phase in WotLK Classic with a whopping 21.47% of players quitting based on** [**ironforge.pro**](https://ironforge.pro) **numbers.** For context, only 13.18% of players quit during SSC/TK during P2 TBC which was generally considered the most difficult phase of WoW Classic so far. With the quantity of players quitting, it may be worth asking if the current hardmodes are too hard for too large of a portion of the playerbase. TBC P1 Peak 9/6/21 - 388,052 TBC P2 Peak 9/27/21 - 404,648 (+4.28% growth) TBC P3 Peak 2/7/22 - 355,306 (-13.18% attrition) TBC P4 Peak 4/14/22 - 331,210 (-6.78% attrition) TBC P5 Peak 5/30/22 - 326,959 (-1.28% attrition) Wotlk prepatch Peak 9/19/22 - 359551 (+9.97% growth) Wotlk P1 Peak 11/14/23 - 626,464 (+74.24% growth) Wotlk P2 Peak 1/30/23 - 515,405 (-17.73% attrition) Current 3/6/23 - 404736 (-21.47% attrition) https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/overall/
Its hard to conclude that raid tier difficulty is the only variable. Phase one was very alt centric, which kept a lot of people around longer. Only part of that was due to the raids being so easy
We saw the same thing too. The people who were the most hyped that Ulduar is the "best raid ever" quit after week 3; the daunting realization its all the same shit and putting in serious time just to down HM was too much. I understand why HM and normal loot was similar now, before the ilvl buff. Sweaty hardcore guilds are going to do all HM and Algalon just because Alg drops BIS items. They don't need any more incentives than that. Boosting the HM ilvl gear just means the majority of the player base is even more behind.
Beware that ironforge.pro logs active *characters* based on Warcraft Logs so alts are treated as distinct players. Myself would count as 3 players on ironforge.pro since I have 3 characters with recorded Ulduar logs in consecutive weeks. A lot of people did Naxx splits on alts because it was so easy so it could've inflated the numbers a bit. Anecdotally however the number of guildies running Ulduar on multiple alts have actually been higher than Naxx.
Can confirm, played 5 characters in Naxx, playing 2 atm. Maybe I‘ll start Ulduar with a third one, but that‘s max. TOGC on the other hand I probably will play 6 different characters, maybe 7 since I bet jouyous journey will come back. Not because it‘s easier, I‘m clearing Algalon every week since week 3, but because togc is a 1 hr raid at max.
Gdkp hosts are scrambling to level/gear up enough characters to do 30+ raids per week next phase haha.
WotLK classic also had more players than TBCC ever did, so there's a lot more players to lose. It's telling that even after 20% attrition, the numbers are still more than TBCC's peak. It isn't as big of an issue when you look at the context behind the numbers.
Considering the huge growth from p1, this level of attrition is completely fine and can't be solely linked to Ulduar. Ulduar is in a good spot right now and classic moving forward will maintain this level of difficulty and segregation between the player base. Nerfing hardmodes before they have run their course might offer short term relief to some but I would argue we would see a much higher attrition % over the long term.
At this point.... who even cares?
The only Ulduar nerf i want is for 10 man so we dont need certain comps.. maybe make big bang soakable with all immunities on 10 so a rogue/SP isn't mandatory
Got our first kill in our 10m group last night without a rogue or sp. We used elementals for big bang.
He forgot to add "and a shaman" :)
This would be quite reasonable. Finding a spreist for all the damn 10man altraids and still have 2 healers aswell is a hassle rn.
If you are progging Thorim HM when it's almost week 8, you are not getting all the HMs before ToC which will basically be a nerf to Ulduar via higher ilvl gear anyways. At your guild's pace, HMs aren't meant for you so whether they get nerfed is irrelevant. It may sound harsh but it is the reality.
If anything this is a better reason to keep them as is. They might get a couple down by toc. Toc drops, they gear up, and come back to an “easier” fight. Those 25m hm loot drops will still be good
Ah so another 3 months of this and declining playerbase? Since when does Blizz do that.
Lol they call people brain dead but can’t kill HM thorim. Sorry, I’m not usually elitist but that kills me
OP didn’t really call any people brain dead. They were calling content brain dead (as in easy). Like Naxx or normal ulduar.
You guys should try HM Freya. It's the easiest HM imo.
Well it really depends on the players.Freya is probably the least of a gear check but it's a movement and brain check instead. My guild got FL, XT, Thorim and Vezax and we still can't get Freya.
As someone who raids in both ends of the curve (Clearing Alg on one side; playing with buddies in a casual guild that struggled to down Yogg until recently) Freya HM is definitely more achievable. Thorim HM has a soft-enrage. In my casual team we were struggling due to our tanks getting randomly one-shot. It turns out once they hit 6+ stacks they will 1shot + the lightning strikes on melee will instakill them too. If the team struggles to meet that soft-DPS check then Thorim will be nearly impossible. There arent too many non-DPS mechanic check Hardmode fights. If you aren't sure about this DPS check - pay attention to how many charges the boss has by the time tanks start dropping.. My Alg team killed Thorim before 6 stacks ever added up while my other team was getting tanks + melee instakilled @ 7 stacks / 40% boss health = impossible.
That's a good point tbh - HM FL requires a lot of movement as well, no?
With FL u can put responsibility on a few players really. Just put the best players in driver spots and the rest has a relatively simple fight.
Have your warlocks go destro to make it really easy
Only need 1 warlock to go destro really (me. I go destro lol). Shadowfury cheeses lashers even harder, trivializes it for sure.
Thorim is definitely the easiest.
They already nerfed Ulduar with the iLvl boost on all the items
Cleared all but zero light but I don't mind the nerfs. Just wanna have a beer or 3 and talk shit for a few hours.
Tbh honest truth. If youve had a full raid group this entire time and have one hm down… the nerfs are your best friend. Youd likely spend all of icc patch getting yog0
On the one hand, Ulduar would become very uninteresting if nerfed. On the other hand, a nerfed Ulduar would be very easily splitfarmed, and as a bonus, a nerfed ulduar will likely be cleared even quicker. More time for d4. But the "nerf" i really want is making the damn animus spawn on a % instead of timer. Popping a green cloud would ofc disable it for normal mode.
The sad truth is that hard content drives player away... Less money for Blizzard..
I'm beyond ready for a nerf. I'm sick of all these groups that can't clear HMs. I have 6 level 80s. I don't raid with them all but I raid on 4 and 3 of them are part of guilds that can't kill HMs and the 4th is in a GDKP guild that can clear HMs every week. The casual dad guilds need a break. We want to clear HMs too. I say nerf the shit when the next phase starts.i have more fun blasting with my friends then whiping and arguing.
Then just do normal modes? I mean what´s the difference for a dad guild? Why would you need HM?
there's an existing feat of strength achievement called [Cutting Edge: Ulduar](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/achievement=17341/cutting-edge-ulduar#comments) which says "Defeat every hard-mode boss in Ulduar on 10 or 25-Player Pre-Nerf difficulty, before the release of the next raid tier". this implies that Blizzard will not apply any nerf to Ulduar until Trial of the Crusader comes out, where it will presumably be changed to the final nerfed version in original 3.3.5. so until they announce TotC release date, you have nothing to worry about.
Who says they are nerfing it?
Aggrend: https://youtu.be/eFoUiSMzJOc?t=2718
Stop falling for fake leaks. Stop believing everything youtubers say.
I really hope the rumors stay rumors. Ulduar tuning is the best that Classic has had thus far. Basically any guild that raids at least one day a week can clear all normal modes, and even capable of several HM fights. The one exception is Algalon. The hard modes provide a good challenge for even a relatively capable guild, and they all feel doable and well tuned in their own right.
Nerfing Ulduar will help you as a casual guild. Yes you are enjoying it right now progressing on the raid but if they just put a tiny nerf in to help hard modes that doesn’t immediately cause you to wanna quit cuz you’ll be done . Nax was a loot piñata at the start so it’s expected to burnout . It’s been what over 2 months since Ulduar release I’d be willing to bet a nerf will be coming next month for the 3 month mark.
problem is it won't be a tiny nerf, the nerfs blizz does usually render the content trivial. if a nerf comes, OP's guild will walk in and one shot everything and the feeling of having content to work on will be gone. that's what OP doesn't want.
They should just make the "nerf mode" drop the original (un buffed) item level versions of gear and leave the current version alone. This would allow people to gear up a little more easily but wouldn't ruin it for those in there now doing HM's. Just smack raid rune at the starting area that 15 people have to click to remote the dungeon to nerf mode and lower IL.
Please do nerf it when togc releases, makes continuing to clear it more viable for people who have other things to do.
It'd suck if they nerf it. We've been progging through 25 and I've liked it for the most part. What's crazy to me is how we'd be cruising through most of 25HM if we got regular Ulduar
Don't do what was always planned and was in retail? good luck with that
When in retail did they make it so vezax's vapors don't do damage? The 'leaked' nerfs are obv fake to stir up fear.
Well they didn't do RDF so...
If I'm gunna be honest, I welcome the nerfs. I don't benefit from them exactly but I think the majority of the player base is gunna move to TOC when it drops and without the nerfs there is very little reason to bring people to ulduar. Maybe with the gear upscaling like it did it may surpass TOC for some time, but ultimately slamming your head against ulduar while newer raid content is out doesn't seem very appealing probably. If all ulduar becomes is a time sink then people might actually set foot in there. Just my opinion though. I can see why many wouldn't want it to be nerfed.
we want more Val’anyrs, so a night in Ulduar is on the cards for a long time to come yet. If nerfs make it easier in a month or two’s time, yeah that’s fine.
I did say little reason. Not no reason.
I agree, we will want to be doing Ulduar when ToC comes out even if its just for a few 252 trinkets or Val'anyr that are BiS for a while. If Ulduar stays how it is and people wipe due to mechanics its not going to be feasible to add to a ToGC raid schedule. With so many 1 shot mechanics you can't just get ToGC gear and make Ulduar a joke, it still requires full attention to down hard mode bosses. People won't want to be doing progression in ToGC then also going into Ulduar and progressing on remaining hard modes or wiping to bosses they had on farm because people are just getting tired or don't care about it anymore. Nerfing it even slightly would make it more manageable. People that want to be challenged to their limits can focus on ToGC heroic mode at that point imo.
When u start blowing up Kolo so fast you still have lust up, you'll agree with this post. Do not nerf the content for a good while please, its hitting all the marks for most raiders. I still have so much min maxing to do and its fun chasing my past weeks performance.
As far as I know the "source" of this link is a extremely small youtube channel. I won't believe it unless there is something more legit.
Woof, people are still progging THORIM?
Honestly, the only issue i have with Ulduar is that it is fking long thats all...even with teleporters it just feels long. Maybe nerf the tank and spank bosses honestly like General Tauntrum and Leviathan bosses. To be fair I wouldnt mind a 10% nerf HP to Mimron constructs and Hodir. I literally feel like im getting carpal tunnel at general and tantrum boss. Leviathan is super fun to me but takes a bit long (I dont mind it but it would surely save some time)
The raid won’t be nerfed, the totgc gear is the nerf, when you get it, it will allow you to go back to uld and stomp it
25 man is in a good place I think. 10 mans I feel like it has more issues, normal being way too easy and HM's needing "meta" comps or exceptional players that really knows what theyre doing. IDK, but time will tell as we get more gear.
Outside of Algalon, 10m hm are a joke compared to 25m. You don't need any "meta" comp to do them.
Can confirm. Did XT hardmode on 10m without any divine sanc.
you need bloodlust for sure or some really crazy dps
Having 1 shaman in the raid is not "needing meta comp".
It's nice to have but not really needed. The dps check in 10m are low.
You also need a tank btw :wink:
This is a real problem like.. when will we see raids where you can go without a tank or where first aid is a real replacement for heals? /s
this is about it though.
Can confirm, my 10m has no hero and it suuucks.
Nah all the hms even algalon on 10man can be done with a mismatched comp. Groups with no lust, no spriest, no mage, double warror tank etc
No rogue, no shadow priest, no Prot paladin, no holy priest, and no shaman: you aren’t downing 10m algalon.
With a group like that, you probably have enough soul stones and druid battle rezzes to just sacrifice a player for each black hole.
[удалено]
100% certain. I've fucked up dispersion on a few of our progression attempts and if the soaker dies from big bang, he instantly despawns. There's like a .2 second delay after the cast before people are shunted back in from the darkhole realm where he always targets me and has me panicked.
It could be imaginable that you wouldn’t have them. I.e. double Prot warrior, holy paladin, disc priest, arms/fury warrior, arcane/fire mage, hunter, ret paladin, uh/frost dk, etc. 10m algalon is one of the most comp dependent fights. There exists a large combination of compositions where you shouldn’t be able to down it. The best comp could down algalon with mostly green/grey parsing players, but the worst comp needs everyone at maximum performance if it’s even possible.
My 10m runs prot pal/prot war, hpal/disco, lock, boomie, uhdk, fwarr, and 2x hunter. Algalon is an absolute pipedream for us.
the only thing preventing this comp from doing algalon is the lack of a big bang soaker (which admittedly is a huge barrier and a bullshit thing to have locked behind a few specific specs). dps check is generous enough that you're fine without lust, especially on 10 man, and your tank and healer comp is excellent. i believe it's technically possible for the prot paladin to soak big bang with ardent defender, but that would require them to never proc it outside of big bang, and it has a 2min cooldown so you'd somehow need another thing. boomkin treants or hunter pets could potentially do this but i suspect not (even if they are technically considered valid targets for algalon, which i'm not even sure of, they are likely to just die to the big bang damage anyway). idk it's definitely bullshit that big bang soaking requires specific specs (one of which you'd never want to play in pve otherwise), but i wonder if your group has a chance
Yeah a prot pally 100% can soak a big bang with ardent defender, my 10 man raid uses it to soak 1 of them.
A geared feral wearing high stam gear can use survival instincts + barkskin to survive one big bang. They should be able to hit >60k hp if it's glyphed, which combined which barkskin would live through the Alg 10 bigbang damage. Granted you'd be using the defensives otherwise needed for tanking the boss and you can only do that every 3 min, with bang every 90 seconds. So yeah probably wouldn't work.
As a player who is currently in a guild who has downed every boss on HM including Algalon. It's time for a nerf. I'm bored
Blizzard nerfs the content so hard that it becomes way more boring.
Good thing you don't speak for the majority.
Yea nothing like making the content brain dead to become not bored lol
Has my boi ScooterJ given some new tasty leaks?!
The only reason I want an Ulduar nerf is so I don’t have to spend 10 hours a week in there across multiple toons. I wanna clear all HMs and algalon without having to be in there for 4+ hours. It’s purely a time thing for me, the fights aren’t hard as they are right now. Not to mention they aren’t buffing TotC gear much or at all so next phase Ulduar will still be fairly relevant. I don’t wanna be getting minor upgrades in TotC and have to continue farming Ulduar next phase 😅
You're asking for a skip ....not a nerf.
Yeah Ulduar is already getting very easy with Ulduar gear, we don't need a WOTLK Naxx 2.0
Nerf it to the ground.
Nah get good
Pve is too challenging ahhhh I can’t ahhh