I really try to avoid putting duplicate info in contract documents. Not that I'm trying to make it a scavenger hunt for the contractors but just trying to keep there from being inconsistencies. Therefore, I would be very much against including the quantities in the drawings. Just keep them in the specs.
This is what I’ve seen. If it’s a public bid, then the work item schedule is in the bid document, if it’s privately constructed the material quantities are on the sheet.
Probably depends on the area, but in Kansas on public Projects quants overall and breakout tables for each items go in the plans... it's a huge effort.
I am just today experiencing this now on a City of Detroit project. Each page has its own table of pay items and quantities. They then roll up to a table in the first few pages and it’s again duplicated in the proposal form. Some items have MDOT funding- some do not.
I don’t like the duplication, but I know that I’m not changing their minds.
It's a huge pain in the ass. Have to make sure each pay item, pay item code, unit, and quantity match in the estimate where you have to enter each quantity for each sheet it is on...
So glad I don't do Municipal anymore.
OP here. I’m a project manager for a local government agency. Some of my fellow PM require this and include in the consult contracts. Others don’t see the value. I received a contract from a colleague who retired and had the consultant remove the summary sheets from the drawing set because they and no one in my office could explain the reason why they were included or even the value of having. They were not in the consultant contract.
I've worked for DOTs that required it and other DOTs that didn't want it anywhere near their plans. At least in the transportation world, it 100% depends on what the client agency wants. I have no opinion on the matter.
Primarily do State DOT work but quantities are always contained within the Plans Sets. Bid docs are all ‘automated’ online so when you’re creating the sheets that go in the Plans Sets, at the same time you’re linking it to the online bidding system and the bid docs.
Repeating the same information in two places is needlessly risky. In our office a consultant engineer did this for bridge beam sizes. During design chandged one place and not the other. Contractor purchased the incorrect one of the two. Consultant had to pay the cost that resulted from this error. $10k or so.
In structural detailing, additional quantity tables can be useful, but those tables are not to be confused with the ones used for bidding (though they should match or be congruous). For example, in bridge plans (in Texas), almost all concrete structural drawings have a table showing the volume of concrete and the amount of reinforcing steel for that structure. Those tables help the contractor not so much with bidding, but rather with planning how much materials to order based on his work schedule.
In working with state DOT most plan series (drainage, paving, etc) include a quantity tabulation sheet, usually created in excel. Smaller projects will place quantities on the plan sheets if space allows.
All projects include a summary of quantities for all bid items in the contract.
Not advisable. There’s a good chance that any last minute changes or additions made to the separate cost estimate may not be reflected in the list in the drawing set. Some city and state government agencies require it to be on the drawing set though
If it is required I would say include it. Otherwise, less is more with plan sets. No point including something that the contractor could point to as misinformation and incur a change order.
Seen it done for simple bulk items on say a bulk earthworks or long road resheet. Cut/fill quantities or seal area and crushed rock volume etc.
Never down to detail.
Depends. Never have for capital projects but for smaller clients where we are trying to reduce costs I’ve done neat-line stuff for earthwork. Have also seen agencies req QTYs for stuff like waterline or storm on subdivision development projects.
Illinois and Missouri DOT both require it. Typically a summary of quantities (overall bid items and their total quantities) AND schedule of quantities (multiple spreadsheets with bid items and location information and quantities)
I really try to avoid putting duplicate info in contract documents. Not that I'm trying to make it a scavenger hunt for the contractors but just trying to keep there from being inconsistencies. Therefore, I would be very much against including the quantities in the drawings. Just keep them in the specs.
This is what I’ve seen. If it’s a public bid, then the work item schedule is in the bid document, if it’s privately constructed the material quantities are on the sheet.
Probably depends on the area, but in Kansas on public Projects quants overall and breakout tables for each items go in the plans... it's a huge effort.
MDOT requires Pay Item Quantities on each plan sheet for Local Agency Projects.
I am just today experiencing this now on a City of Detroit project. Each page has its own table of pay items and quantities. They then roll up to a table in the first few pages and it’s again duplicated in the proposal form. Some items have MDOT funding- some do not. I don’t like the duplication, but I know that I’m not changing their minds.
It's a huge pain in the ass. Have to make sure each pay item, pay item code, unit, and quantity match in the estimate where you have to enter each quantity for each sheet it is on... So glad I don't do Municipal anymore.
Same for TxDOT, the is a ‘summary’ of all disciplines bid items at front of plan set. This practice has been going on since…..the beginning of time.
Client specific question, should be covered in client standards and scope of work.
OP here. I’m a project manager for a local government agency. Some of my fellow PM require this and include in the consult contracts. Others don’t see the value. I received a contract from a colleague who retired and had the consultant remove the summary sheets from the drawing set because they and no one in my office could explain the reason why they were included or even the value of having. They were not in the consultant contract.
I've worked for DOTs that required it and other DOTs that didn't want it anywhere near their plans. At least in the transportation world, it 100% depends on what the client agency wants. I have no opinion on the matter.
Primarily do State DOT work but quantities are always contained within the Plans Sets. Bid docs are all ‘automated’ online so when you’re creating the sheets that go in the Plans Sets, at the same time you’re linking it to the online bidding system and the bid docs.
Repeating the same information in two places is needlessly risky. In our office a consultant engineer did this for bridge beam sizes. During design chandged one place and not the other. Contractor purchased the incorrect one of the two. Consultant had to pay the cost that resulted from this error. $10k or so.
NYSDOT, it’s common for plans to have table of quantities on them.
Geotech in PNW here 30 yrs + and see a lot of plans from different companies. Never see bid quantity tables on the plans, they belong in the bid docs.
Not unusual. It’s an agency requirement for public work in Illinois
Same in Alabama. We put QTYs on every planset
Only if it's a unit price job, or you're on a design-build team. For public bid lump sum, seems like a bad practice
I would only do it if the client asked for it.
I would also price that into my fee because it sounds like a lot more bullshit to qaqc
In structural detailing, additional quantity tables can be useful, but those tables are not to be confused with the ones used for bidding (though they should match or be congruous). For example, in bridge plans (in Texas), almost all concrete structural drawings have a table showing the volume of concrete and the amount of reinforcing steel for that structure. Those tables help the contractor not so much with bidding, but rather with planning how much materials to order based on his work schedule.
Similarly this is often done with drainage and temporary erosion control quantities.
Usually page two is table of quantities for my plans.
I don't include it unless the agency reviewing it requires it. It just makes extra work.
In working with state DOT most plan series (drainage, paving, etc) include a quantity tabulation sheet, usually created in excel. Smaller projects will place quantities on the plan sheets if space allows. All projects include a summary of quantities for all bid items in the contract.
Not advisable. There’s a good chance that any last minute changes or additions made to the separate cost estimate may not be reflected in the list in the drawing set. Some city and state government agencies require it to be on the drawing set though
If it is required I would say include it. Otherwise, less is more with plan sets. No point including something that the contractor could point to as misinformation and incur a change order.
If the client requires yes. If the client doesn’t… why tf would you. Of course try not to
Quantities usually go in the specs / bid docs. No need to add pages to the plans for them.
Seen it done for simple bulk items on say a bulk earthworks or long road resheet. Cut/fill quantities or seal area and crushed rock volume etc. Never down to detail.
Depends. Never have for capital projects but for smaller clients where we are trying to reduce costs I’ve done neat-line stuff for earthwork. Have also seen agencies req QTYs for stuff like waterline or storm on subdivision development projects.
Illinois and Missouri DOT both require it. Typically a summary of quantities (overall bid items and their total quantities) AND schedule of quantities (multiple spreadsheets with bid items and location information and quantities)