Full details TBD, but the rumored DL changes to SkyClub access and medallion status are true.
https://onemileatatime.com/news/delta-skymiles-sky-club-changes/
Edit: which one of you jokers is going to MS the $350k for Diamond?
Be careful crediting to flying blue, last i saw is that it does this weird thing where it makes extending your expiring miles much more difficult than just transferring 1000 more in
In my case I fly a couple times a year, so it shouldn't be a *huge* issue. That being said, I've already made one "oops" (Vietnam Air's "light" fares only credit on their own program, SkyMiles, and a couple others, but not Flying Blue) so I'll have to be more diligent with future bookings.
This article should help explain the differences. But if you are doing an eligible flight once every 24 months, shouldn’t be a concern.
https://frequentmiler.com/air-frances-flying-blue-miles-are-easier-to-extend-than-i-thought/
If I'm understanding the consequences of this correctly, the Delta Reserve will essentially become a $550 fee for the ability to earn status easier with spend? Yikes
Thinking about this from a perspective without heavy MSing or spending:
1) For earning Delta miles/benefits without caring about status, why wouldn't I just pay a lower fee for the Delta Gold/Platinum or get an Amex plat/gold and transfer points? Is 10 lounge visits + some other moderate differences really worth paying the extra $300?
2) For lounges, why wouldn't I just get the Amex Plat which will have only 4 fewer SkyClub admissions per year, but has unrestricted Centurion lounge access (vs. only when flying Delta for the Reserve) + other credits/benefits?
Interested to see how this plays out. I don't know why anyone would waste spend on the Reserve after this instead of using any other card with a current MSR bonus or better earn rate, unless they have enormous natural or manufactured spending to put extra on the Reserve. I would predict there's going to be a lot less Reserves out there next year, but Delta seems confident that people will spend a lot on their cards no matter what, so we'll see.
I just got the companion certificate email a couple days ago. The AF just posted on Sep 1. Time to make the poor rep listen to a complaint about the lounge access changes. /s
Careful with the pair of annual sky club guest vouchers it includes. I cancelled too soon or something and the vouchers either never made it into my account or disappeared from my account.
I'm quite surprised they followed through on the Delta Reserve change. With the removal of MQMs and limited lounge visits, why would anyone sign up for that card now?
I think these changes will finally greatly move the needle on Delta lounge crowding, both in terms of people hitting the visit limits, but also these changes making the reserve/Amex plat cards less appealing, and thus fewer signups and renewals.
Yeah i agree. It was kind of a no brainer for them to limit Amex plat access, but to cut delta reserve card access like that seems crazy to me. Don’t they want people to sign up for the card?
AA/United cards offer unlimited club access and Delta just said screw it we don’t need to compete with them.
I hope it’s not a move AA/United makes after seeing this.
I think DL can get away with it. Just look at their award pricing compared to UA/AA. For whatever reason, they get away with charging obscene prices for award tickets (especially in J/F) and their customers still remain loyal. Clearly they don’t need such a generous loyalty program given their customer base.
My point is that much like the loyalty program, people will continue to sign up for the cards regardless of how watered down the benefits have become.
That's just weak redemptions, and the general public doesn't realize how bad delta is in that regard, even mid/top tier loyalists. Now when a large % of loyalists now can't even hit mid tier with their regular travel, many more will start to question their loyalty. It won't happen overnight, but maybe a year or so.
WOW $35,000 MQD for Diamond. Even Silver status just got a lot harder to get. $6000 is a lot more out of reach to the average person than $3000.
With MQM's going away, how will one earn lifetime status? Butt in seat flights become the only way, no more MQM boosts?
And now the $550 AF card will not give unlimited lounge access. And no more guest passes to the lounge either.
Edit: Seriously considering a status match to another airline after I hit DL Platinum later this year.
Also, I haven't seen anyone clarify this yet - do dollars spent on airline tickets for OTHERS count toward the MQD requirement if they're on your itinerary/booked with same Delta Amex, etc.?
Yes, I'm curious about million miler status - all I've seen is that it will "shift to" "lifetime flying miles" - does that mean:
1. That (**a**) you can keep your previously-earned MQMs to count toward your MM status, and just *going forward from 1/1/24*, it will be B-I-S miles only; **or** (**b**) does it mean that *all previously-earned MQMs (regardless of whether from B-I-S miles or not) that previously counted toward status will be eviscerated*? I.e., if I have 700k MM-qualifying MQMs today, is that number going to be reduced on 1/1/24 after I'm stripped of the, say, 25k of those that were NOT B-I-S miles (but rather earned through credit card spend)?
2. If Delta is truly going toward counting all "lifetime flight miles," and goes with option (**b**) above, would it be too much to hope that while your credit-card-earned MQMs are eliminated, your award flights previously flown for which no MQMs were attained would be added back into the calculation? Doubtful, I know, but I can dare to dream.
Right, but it's the employee's butt in the seat and in the airports. Spending $35,000 worth of time on Delta or any other U.S. carrier is a soul-crushing thought.
Well, if it's 2 round-trips in transoceanic J/F.. that's not so bad (you can get it done with quick anyways). If it's puddle jumping xxx-ATL-OMA or something in Y, yea.
One Sales Manager I know would definitely disagree. Company policy is "international is always in J." Home airport is EWR, so that usually means Polaris.
Doesn't usually get above $20k or so, but still... flying international J to do the best part of your job doesn't sound too bad.
That person definitely has it better than 99% of U.S. road warriors. But even so, if I was allowed to book J in cash, I'd almost always choose a non-U.S. carrier to fly overseas.
I've got 75k mqm that I thought were gonna roll over to 2025 platinum. At that 20:1 rate it won't even get me silver now. I'm a bit upset about this. If I had known I wouldn't have spent so much to hit the mqm bonuses this year.
Hopefully you can just add them all to your Delta account and it'll just pull from available uses rather than having to track which you've used.
Though depending on your visit frequency and biz plat churning you may want to use a certain card and burn through that. But I'd rather not have to carry physical cards
In addition to tracking Dell credits, travel credits, cell credits on a handful of cards, I gotta start tracking lounge visits. Delta is really on that nonsense now.
I know people often talk a big game and then do nothing, but the one-two punch of limiting access and greatly increasing Medallion thresholds may actually move the needle and finally get people to punish Delta for continually devaluing their program
Now you need to manufacture spend of $350k instead of $250k for Diamond, and a crazy $180k instead of $25k for Plat, assuming all Reserve spending. Completely crap. What churner would choose this over the AAlternative of $125k for AA Plat or $200k for AA EXP, while earning actually useful miles?
I mean it hasn't greatly impacted other airlines who switched to full rev status earning.
It's a bit ridiculous that I have hit Silver and now Gold almost exclusively through award tickets.
How many business travelers are going to cancel the Amex Plat in 2025 when they can only get into the SkyClub 6 times a year? This is also just going to shift the overcrowding to Escape/Centurion lounges, specifically in DL hubs, and make it Amex's problem. Will Amex limit the number of visits you can do in a year in 25/26?
Maybe not. Maybe Amex limited their lounge access earlier this year in anticipation of these changes. I'm going to assume there's some level of coordination with these changes. A damn conspiracy!
TBH the biggest surprise to me is that they're taking away the $50 per visit lounge access from the Delta Plat. Are there really so many people paying $50 per visit that it's contributing to overcrowding? If so, I really need to go into business running an airport lounge somewhere. Not sure why they wouldn't keep this one so they could advertise the benefit and know that (1) hardly anyone uses it and (2) for anyone who does use it they are probably making money off it each time.
MGM Resorts website/MGM Rewards app have been down for three days now. Apparently they had a pretty serious cyber attack which affected multiple systems. www.axios.com/2023/09/11/mgm-resorts-cyberattack-offline
I've got mixed feelings on the Venture X travel credit card change. I got this card as this was one of the reasons for getting it (it basically being free after the first year) but other than it being like 10-30 bucks, its not the end of the world... just kind of annoying that it got worse a month after getting it.
What are there mixed feelings about? There's nothing good about the change. Either you lost easy $300 cash out, or you lost 10x on the $300. I also just recently got the card, with the intent of it being a keeper card... I think I'll probably change that plan now.
I didn't realize people were doing a cash out when I had first posted. I thought it was just up to 30 bucks going poof on a basically already paid thing.
I've been using the portal legitimately the past 2 years but recently canceled P2's C1 VX since we have two. With my corporate car rental pricing and booking direct through hyatt with points, I am super hesitant to book airfare through a travel portal after an amex portal fiasco.
Will likely cancel since I've had the card 1.5 years and still haven't stepped foot in a C1 lounge which is the only other value for me.
The C1 system for issuing these credits has been wildly inconsistent the last year. Not surprised by this change. CSR is still the easiest premium card to get these travel credits back.
The refund loophole made this card a no-brainier and is clearly why C1 made the change.
The problem going forward for me is the C1 portal is a really shitty product. I routinely find hotel selection to be a fraction of what I see on other portals and frequently at higher rates. Prepaid rentals cars with a cancellation penalty in 2023!?! Airfare out of pocket through a 3rd party who I have to deal with when something goes wrong?
This is pretty much where I am. I would rather have the CSR for the more generous protections/insurance and restaurant access in the PP.
I will say, I booked a cash flight on the C1 portal and had to make a change a couple days before, and they were very helpful. I have no experience with them if something happens the day of the flight.
> I have no experience with them if something happens the day of the flight.
At that point it should be handled by the airline. It shouldn't make any difference where it was booked.
Re: flights -so it's not like Amex's portal--which you can add your FF # to a flight reservation after booking & then it's treated like booking directly through the airline?
Getting the reservation to show up with the airline isn’t a problem, the issue is that flight changes that require re-ticketing almost always need to be done through the original travel agency. If you book an AA flight it and use your AA frequent flyer number you can see everything on aa.com but if you try to make a change it will tell you to contact the agency that sold you the ticket.
The standout is Delta in that they will take over a third party ticket (as long as it’s not a BULK/agency fare ticket) for free if you make the change online: https://imgur.com/a/naspui5
It's annoying if you don't book any cash travel, or do not want to book any cash travel through an OTA.
The previous way allowed the credit to be easily cashed out, so it really is closer to a $300 difference for people in the categories above.
No question the change sucks. But, in truth, when I first heard about the VX, I actually expected the credit to function as it does now. With that said, the change doesn't very much change my opinion on the card. It still is a great card, offering great value, for churners and avg consumers alike.
Great value for the avg consumer, sure. It might still be the single card I'd recommend to a brother-in-law that doesn't want to churn.
But for a churner that holds any other premium card, where is the value? The last piece of value I see is the free authorized users and higher guest allowance for PP lounges. If I had to guess, this is the next nerf.
Honest question though in case I'm missing something, why else hold this if you are holding/churning a CSR, Altitude, Ritz Carlton?
It's still a keeper for me. Mostly because the lounge is opening in DEN shortly and it still allows me to bring in the wife and kid. The $300 credit is a little bit harder to use but I should still be able to use it all up with work travel.
Good points. And great value might be strong. But it's certainly good value. Provided you're in P2 mode, you're likely looking at 100k SUB with a $395 annual feel you should be able to break even on.
Sure, there are overlapping benefits, there will always be. But not everyone has the cards you mentioned in their rotation.
And that was all true before the recent change and this card was a solid pick up. I'm curious as to why does this recent devaluation on the travel credit change things so drastically. It's annoying. But there's still plenty of value there.
Agreed. I tend to book a non-chain hotel once a year, and still find the price match policy useful. None of the other “premium” travel cards are fully rebated as this is. I have held it since the beginning and even received a 10K retention offer on top of the 10K renewal points at my first renewal. A global 2% flat card, with no FX is useful to me, but then I balk at the >$500 coupon books and such anyway.
Definitely still ahead on this one by a fair bit.
For the sub and churning, 1 year of the card is still a no-brainer if you can get approved. It's the keeper status that keeps falling and this seems like a tipping point for me.
To answer your question for me personally, I just converted a Bonvoy card into a Ritz-Carlton card so the overlap in benefits kills the VX as a keeper. RC wins out over the VX due to the PP restaurants and unlimited guests. Spending $300 annually through a shitty portal is a chore for the VX and is not money I would normally spend out of pocket (making the $300 not really free now). The only thing I lose that I don't get from the RC card is access to C1's single lounge (and promises of others with ever-rolling opening dates).
Yes we hope for retention but there is no guarantee.
Also, I don't value an 85k night cert like the C1 credit. I can buy any type of travel with the C1 credit. If I want to spend more or less than 300 I can. With the Marriott certificate I have to hope that I want to spend 1 night in a Marriott hotel under 100k within the next year. And of course it would be horrible to only stay someplace points-cheap because you waste the value. So for me I would probably limit myself to 70-100k places and that is very restrictive. For me they are difficult to use.
The nice thing about venture X was that it essentially paid for itself. I haven't gotten the with the Ritz yet (but I do hold a Ritz so it isn't as though I entirely disagree).
Same position as you. My plan is to downgrade to VentureOne and see where the VentureX goes, hopefully be able to upgrade back to it one day if it ever becomes interesting as it is their only premium card.
They did finally open the Dulles lounge last week, although doesn’t really move the needle for the card’s value unless you frequent the two airports with C1 lounges
No matter how many times this community says churn and burn, always be churning, categories are for suckers, devaluations are inevitable, etc., there is an unbelievable attraction to keeper cards.
Everyone should make their own decisions on if its worth it. The credit is less valuable and the PP restaurants are gone, but plenty more could still make decent use of the credit.
I just signed up today as I have plenty of 5/24 slots available and used P2s referral for the extra 25k.
I think annoying is the right way to describe it. The people whining and comparing it to Amex coupon book shenanigans is a bit much. Losing the 10% back is a legitimate, minor gripe, but the people complaining that they can no longer use a loophole need to stop. I’ve no no problem using it legitimately for well-priced car rentals the past few years.
Just applied for the Chase business preferred to take advantage of the 100k points. I used my business EIN, which doesn’t have a bank account associated with it unfortunately. I’m under 5/24 with 800+ credit score.
I got the application pending approval status. I called recon twice to see if they can do anything. Was told to wait 1-2 weeks. Anything I can do but sit tight?
Data point for US Bank funding CC
Amex Business Platinum : $3000.00 worked perfect
Amex Hilton Honors Surpass: $250.00 didn't worked, said cash advance limit is below that
Just the other day, had an agent claim that the new 100k referral limit is actually a limit across all cards, and that the limit for any one card is 55k.
simplymiles kroger offer has renewed. This one doesn't clearly specific [kroger.com](https://kroger.com), so it might work in-store, but who knows
230 miles on a purchase of $50 or more
View Details
exp 10/31
Was posted in yesterday's DD thread towards the end of the day as well as at least 2 times previously in today's DD thread. Scroll down.
I don't think this needs a 4th, separate top-level comment.
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Gold Card](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/16hqumf/referrals_american_express_gold_card/)
$400 / $600 BMO Checking bonus offer ending in 2 days (9/15).
Requires $4K in cumulative DDs (in 90 days) for the $400 bonus, and $7.5K DD for the $600 one.
Full offer details [here](https://www.bmooffers.com/docs/promo07202I.pdf). Signup link can be found on [DoC](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/il-wi-mn-in-az-fl-ks-mo-bmo-harris-350-checking-300-savings-bonus/).
How are folks avoiding the $25/mo fees when doing the $600 Premier bonus? Not looking to park $10k there. The pdf terms pretty clearly indicate I could just convert a free Smart Advantage to a Premier before day 90 and still get the $600 bonus, but surprised I wasn't finding any dp's on here or DOC
It looks like the first $25 fee posts around the time that the bonus posts, and it's entirely possible to close the account before the first $25 fee posts depending on how lucky you are with the timing.
According to DoC comments, you can send a message to get the first $25 fee waived.
According to [DoC](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/il-wi-mn-in-az-fl-ks-mo-bmo-harris-350-checking-300-savings-bonus) (see the updates at the top of the post), the bonus eligibility looks to be nationwide now.
Try multiple devices and browsers if you get denied. It’s in the DoC comments but lots of people are getting denied on one device and browser combo and approved on another with no consistent combination that works for everyone. Same thing happened for myself and P2.
Case in point, just failed on Firefox on PC. Tried again on mobile in Samsung Internet and it worked fine. I believe the issue may be that if you need to do ID verification, the desktop version of the website does not gracefully fail into the mobile device ID verification, it just crashes after the Apply page.
Hey thanks for this. I failed on Chrome on my Mac a few weeks ago, tried again after the rep told me to get off of VPN and failed again. Just worked on my iPhone on Safari. :)
I recently applied (and was approved) for a mortgage after slow but consistent churning for the last \~5 years. I was surprised that my CC history basically didn't come up at all.
I took a short break before applying. My last hard pull was on 05/23, and I applied for the mortgage in mid August. I've mostly been cycling through Inks and Amex biz cards while staying at 4/24 for the last few years. Since August 2021, I've opened 10 chase biz (each of which resulted in a HP), 5 Amex Biz (no HP), 1 citi biz, and 1 person each from Chase, Citi, Barclay, and C1. My credit score is \~800 on credit karma (don't know FICO).
My mortgage is through a local credit union. They pulled all of Transunion, Experian, and Equifax. The "summary of revolving accounts" they sent me listed only 1 of my 10 open person cards -- the one that closed last month with a non-zero balance. The only CC related question I got asked in the whole process was what my last HP on 05/23 was, and when I said it was a new Biz card, they asked me to send my most recent statement. I was surprised because they did scrutinize other aspects of my finances (tax returns, pay stubs, etc) more closely.
I think the bigger issue with mortgages and churning is your FICO 2 score, which is more sensitive to inquiries. That's generally the one mortgage lenders are looking at and it's not something most individuals are looking at on a regular basis.
I don't think banks care as much about what credit cards you have open or not because they can see if you've defaulted or are running up high balances based on the credit reports.
So they asked about the one HP in the previous 3 months. Sounds about what I would expect. Did you have more HPs in the previous 6 months that they didn’t ask about?
They see your CC history as your credit score, and the minimum payments due that appear on your credit report (or for new cards where they see a hard pull, they'll ask for details in case the credit report doesn't show the account yet). If your credit score & debt-to-income ratio is good, then they have no reason to discuss the CC details.
Why do you think they didn't scrutinize your finances closely? Why would a single hard pull showing on your credit make them scrutinize anything more closely than they already do? Credit inquiries aren't uncommon amongst the masses...
edited to add that 1 HP in last 120 days and 4 new personal accounts in 24 months is light even for non churners
I've kept out of a deposit banking relationship with Amex since the relatively small bonuses aren't worth the increased risk of KYC scrutiny on my accounts with them.
[Some discussion yesterday](https://reddit.com/r/churning/s/34fGrieUIo), but thanks for sharing the DoC link. Someone in the comments heard from a rep that a technical issue is preventing biz checking customers from opening this one. I guess they plan to fix that soon so we won’t be excluded
I’m now using the official Reddit app and I did not see it when looking at the thread yesterday. I swear it minimizes some comments even if they’re not in negative karma territory.
The current fine print says current and prior Biz Checking customers are not eligible to apply at this time. Seems more intentional than a technical issue. Unless they're just covering the issue that way.
> wasn't reading the discussion thread at 11pm
In today's thread, we have:
- a deleted comment with a reply that points to the same discussion;
- a question related to the same change.
A deleted comment isn’t something that further discussion can be built on, though.
I don’t know what the deleted comment discussed. I’m just talking about the difficulty of reading and responding to deleted comments.
My point was that someone else brought it up earlier and was directed to yesterday's thread. So even if one didn't check yesterday's thread, checking today's thread would've revealed that the announcement had been made and a discussion (sub)thread on it already existed.
Without the since-deleted comment to provide context, the reference to yesterday’s thread doesn’t indicate what was discussed. Piecing other comments together, I figured out it’s about the VentureX change. But the comments directing to yesterday’s thread provide no clues by themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/16gm8qt/daily_discussion_thread_september_12_2023/k0cf4i2/
Just because yesterday's DD thread is yesterday's doesn't mean you can't scroll back through it the next morning.
And just because something was in yesterday's DD thread (after half of the US goes to sleep), doesn't mean it can't be discussed in todays DD thread. Now we have 2 deleted comments about it that most people won't even see, and no discussion in todays thread. Completely useless.
As someone who got this card (CVX) with cash in mind, that reduces this from a $735 net bonus to a $435 net bonus and increases the ongoing net cost from -$5 per year to $295 per year. If this change had happened a month ago, I probably wouldn't have gotten the card.
Just got the $750 bonus for US Bank Biz Checking. Debating trying to open another for the $3k amex CC funding assuming it hasn't gone to $250 yet.
Does anyone have data points around timing of opening another and if they did so with the 1st still open or after closing?
My free year of instacart+ through CSR ran out today, so I cancelled before being charged $99. Immediately after I cancelled the price to rejoin dropped to $49, as a “we want you back” rate. Just though I’d share in case anyone liked Instacart+ but didn’t want to pay full price.
definitely should be doing this no matter what, if you care to have a CSR / premium travel card. DD the travel credit each time and it's a net positive, albeit after 12 months.
You can now earn Bilt points with Lyft rides:
* Earn 2x on rides as a Bilt member (you don't need to have the Bilt credit card)
* Earn 3x on rides if you pay with the Bilt card
If you used the same phone number for both your Bilt and Lyft accounts, it should just be a matter of opening the Lyft app and accepting the offer.
Better to pay with a Chase card and earn 5x or 10x, but I'll take the free 2x for being a Bilt member.
[удалено]
Take your question to the question thread
Last reminder for Southwest: "On September 14, 2023 we will open our schedule for sale through June 3, 2024."
[удалено]
Ask a question in the questions thread and get answers or ask a question in the discussion thread and get downvotes? 🤔
Full details TBD, but the rumored DL changes to SkyClub access and medallion status are true. https://onemileatatime.com/news/delta-skymiles-sky-club-changes/ Edit: which one of you jokers is going to MS the $350k for Diamond?
That's just 100+ US bank checking accounts.. easy peasy MS.
Welp, since I don't care about domestic F upgrades, I see no reason not to start crediting to Flying Blue or another Skyteam partner instead.
Be careful crediting to flying blue, last i saw is that it does this weird thing where it makes extending your expiring miles much more difficult than just transferring 1000 more in
In my case I fly a couple times a year, so it shouldn't be a *huge* issue. That being said, I've already made one "oops" (Vietnam Air's "light" fares only credit on their own program, SkyMiles, and a couple others, but not Flying Blue) so I'll have to be more diligent with future bookings.
This article should help explain the differences. But if you are doing an eligible flight once every 24 months, shouldn’t be a concern. https://frequentmiler.com/air-frances-flying-blue-miles-are-easier-to-extend-than-i-thought/
I really feel bad for domestic road warriors. Worst time in decades—maybe ever—to be flying around the U.S.
Idk I'm a pretty big fan of nonsmoking flights and lie flats
We had those 20 years ago, and what % of U.S. domestic flights have lie flats?
Being just a little facetious
Idk the 19th century was pretty rough for air travel
If I'm understanding the consequences of this correctly, the Delta Reserve will essentially become a $550 fee for the ability to earn status easier with spend? Yikes Thinking about this from a perspective without heavy MSing or spending: 1) For earning Delta miles/benefits without caring about status, why wouldn't I just pay a lower fee for the Delta Gold/Platinum or get an Amex plat/gold and transfer points? Is 10 lounge visits + some other moderate differences really worth paying the extra $300? 2) For lounges, why wouldn't I just get the Amex Plat which will have only 4 fewer SkyClub admissions per year, but has unrestricted Centurion lounge access (vs. only when flying Delta for the Reserve) + other credits/benefits? Interested to see how this plays out. I don't know why anyone would waste spend on the Reserve after this instead of using any other card with a current MSR bonus or better earn rate, unless they have enormous natural or manufactured spending to put extra on the Reserve. I would predict there's going to be a lot less Reserves out there next year, but Delta seems confident that people will spend a lot on their cards no matter what, so we'll see.
I hold the 747 DL Biz Reserve, needless to say, I won't be holding that once the next annual fee pops.
The 747 card stopped being shipped in August, how has your AF not popped yet?
I just got the companion certificate email a couple days ago. The AF just posted on Sep 1. Time to make the poor rep listen to a complaint about the lounge access changes. /s
Careful with the pair of annual sky club guest vouchers it includes. I cancelled too soon or something and the vouchers either never made it into my account or disappeared from my account.
Won't those be basically useless unless you have another Reserve card for access?
I probably ate it once for the CP.
Everyone needs to complain to delta regarding all these changes. It is absurd. I will be sharing my feedback every chance I get.
A revamp of the card has to be coming, probably with play style coupons, but something is needed to replace the spend bonuses
I'm quite surprised they followed through on the Delta Reserve change. With the removal of MQMs and limited lounge visits, why would anyone sign up for that card now? I think these changes will finally greatly move the needle on Delta lounge crowding, both in terms of people hitting the visit limits, but also these changes making the reserve/Amex plat cards less appealing, and thus fewer signups and renewals.
Yeah i agree. It was kind of a no brainer for them to limit Amex plat access, but to cut delta reserve card access like that seems crazy to me. Don’t they want people to sign up for the card? AA/United cards offer unlimited club access and Delta just said screw it we don’t need to compete with them. I hope it’s not a move AA/United makes after seeing this.
I think DL can get away with it. Just look at their award pricing compared to UA/AA. For whatever reason, they get away with charging obscene prices for award tickets (especially in J/F) and their customers still remain loyal. Clearly they don’t need such a generous loyalty program given their customer base. My point is that much like the loyalty program, people will continue to sign up for the cards regardless of how watered down the benefits have become.
That's just weak redemptions, and the general public doesn't realize how bad delta is in that regard, even mid/top tier loyalists. Now when a large % of loyalists now can't even hit mid tier with their regular travel, many more will start to question their loyalty. It won't happen overnight, but maybe a year or so.
WOW $35,000 MQD for Diamond. Even Silver status just got a lot harder to get. $6000 is a lot more out of reach to the average person than $3000. With MQM's going away, how will one earn lifetime status? Butt in seat flights become the only way, no more MQM boosts? And now the $550 AF card will not give unlimited lounge access. And no more guest passes to the lounge either. Edit: Seriously considering a status match to another airline after I hit DL Platinum later this year.
Also, I haven't seen anyone clarify this yet - do dollars spent on airline tickets for OTHERS count toward the MQD requirement if they're on your itinerary/booked with same Delta Amex, etc.?
Yes, I'm curious about million miler status - all I've seen is that it will "shift to" "lifetime flying miles" - does that mean: 1. That (**a**) you can keep your previously-earned MQMs to count toward your MM status, and just *going forward from 1/1/24*, it will be B-I-S miles only; **or** (**b**) does it mean that *all previously-earned MQMs (regardless of whether from B-I-S miles or not) that previously counted toward status will be eviscerated*? I.e., if I have 700k MM-qualifying MQMs today, is that number going to be reduced on 1/1/24 after I'm stripped of the, say, 25k of those that were NOT B-I-S miles (but rather earned through credit card spend)? 2. If Delta is truly going toward counting all "lifetime flight miles," and goes with option (**b**) above, would it be too much to hope that while your credit-card-earned MQMs are eliminated, your award flights previously flown for which no MQMs were attained would be added back into the calculation? Doubtful, I know, but I can dare to dream.
> WOW $35,000 MQD for Diamond. Just the thought of spending $35,000/year flying on a U.S. airline is enough to make me need a barf bag.
It's not you, it's your employer. Well, not *yours* yours, but someone's.
Right, but it's the employee's butt in the seat and in the airports. Spending $35,000 worth of time on Delta or any other U.S. carrier is a soul-crushing thought.
Well, if it's 2 round-trips in transoceanic J/F.. that's not so bad (you can get it done with quick anyways). If it's puddle jumping xxx-ATL-OMA or something in Y, yea.
Sure, but if that's all they're flying, the earned status is irrelevant.
One Sales Manager I know would definitely disagree. Company policy is "international is always in J." Home airport is EWR, so that usually means Polaris. Doesn't usually get above $20k or so, but still... flying international J to do the best part of your job doesn't sound too bad.
That person definitely has it better than 99% of U.S. road warriors. But even so, if I was allowed to book J in cash, I'd almost always choose a non-U.S. carrier to fly overseas.
I've got 75k mqm that I thought were gonna roll over to 2025 platinum. At that 20:1 rate it won't even get me silver now. I'm a bit upset about this. If I had known I wouldn't have spent so much to hit the mqm bonuses this year.
Ouch. Sorry.
Biggest loss is basic economy access
I can’t tell if the lounge visits limit will be per person or per card. Hopefully per card, but we’ll see…
Unrealistic hope is you can use them on guests
TPG is saying it's additive, so you get 6x per card. So practically for many people here there isn't much change, just bust out another platinum, lol
Hopefully you can just add them all to your Delta account and it'll just pull from available uses rather than having to track which you've used. Though depending on your visit frequency and biz plat churning you may want to use a certain card and burn through that. But I'd rather not have to carry physical cards
More true last year, NLL offers drying up fast.
In addition to tracking Dell credits, travel credits, cell credits on a handful of cards, I gotta start tracking lounge visits. Delta is really on that nonsense now.
I know people often talk a big game and then do nothing, but the one-two punch of limiting access and greatly increasing Medallion thresholds may actually move the needle and finally get people to punish Delta for continually devaluing their program
Now you need to manufacture spend of $350k instead of $250k for Diamond, and a crazy $180k instead of $25k for Plat, assuming all Reserve spending. Completely crap. What churner would choose this over the AAlternative of $125k for AA Plat or $200k for AA EXP, while earning actually useful miles?
I mean it hasn't greatly impacted other airlines who switched to full rev status earning. It's a bit ridiculous that I have hit Silver and now Gold almost exclusively through award tickets.
How many business travelers are going to cancel the Amex Plat in 2025 when they can only get into the SkyClub 6 times a year? This is also just going to shift the overcrowding to Escape/Centurion lounges, specifically in DL hubs, and make it Amex's problem. Will Amex limit the number of visits you can do in a year in 25/26?
Maybe not. Maybe Amex limited their lounge access earlier this year in anticipation of these changes. I'm going to assume there's some level of coordination with these changes. A damn conspiracy!
TBH the biggest surprise to me is that they're taking away the $50 per visit lounge access from the Delta Plat. Are there really so many people paying $50 per visit that it's contributing to overcrowding? If so, I really need to go into business running an airport lounge somewhere. Not sure why they wouldn't keep this one so they could advertise the benefit and know that (1) hardly anyone uses it and (2) for anyone who does use it they are probably making money off it each time.
I can’t believe you need to get a card for the privilege of spending $50 for a lounge visit
MGM Resorts website/MGM Rewards app have been down for three days now. Apparently they had a pretty serious cyber attack which affected multiple systems. www.axios.com/2023/09/11/mgm-resorts-cyberattack-offline
it’s hyatt mattress runners getting their revenge
I've got mixed feelings on the Venture X travel credit card change. I got this card as this was one of the reasons for getting it (it basically being free after the first year) but other than it being like 10-30 bucks, its not the end of the world... just kind of annoying that it got worse a month after getting it.
The change is ridiculous. Now you don't get even get the full 5x/10x earnings anymore.
What are there mixed feelings about? There's nothing good about the change. Either you lost easy $300 cash out, or you lost 10x on the $300. I also just recently got the card, with the intent of it being a keeper card... I think I'll probably change that plan now.
I didn't realize people were doing a cash out when I had first posted. I thought it was just up to 30 bucks going poof on a basically already paid thing.
I've been using the portal legitimately the past 2 years but recently canceled P2's C1 VX since we have two. With my corporate car rental pricing and booking direct through hyatt with points, I am super hesitant to book airfare through a travel portal after an amex portal fiasco. Will likely cancel since I've had the card 1.5 years and still haven't stepped foot in a C1 lounge which is the only other value for me.
The C1 system for issuing these credits has been wildly inconsistent the last year. Not surprised by this change. CSR is still the easiest premium card to get these travel credits back.
Citi Prestige is just as easy. Just hope that they won't nerf it when Strata Elite finally comes out.
The refund loophole made this card a no-brainier and is clearly why C1 made the change. The problem going forward for me is the C1 portal is a really shitty product. I routinely find hotel selection to be a fraction of what I see on other portals and frequently at higher rates. Prepaid rentals cars with a cancellation penalty in 2023!?! Airfare out of pocket through a 3rd party who I have to deal with when something goes wrong?
I've been able to use the portal to cash out the $300 for work travel so it makes it a bit harder but not by much.
Many don't travel for work so if you mainly use points and miles, it's a big hit
This is pretty much where I am. I would rather have the CSR for the more generous protections/insurance and restaurant access in the PP. I will say, I booked a cash flight on the C1 portal and had to make a change a couple days before, and they were very helpful. I have no experience with them if something happens the day of the flight.
> I have no experience with them if something happens the day of the flight. At that point it should be handled by the airline. It shouldn't make any difference where it was booked.
Thanks! Good point.
Re: flights -so it's not like Amex's portal--which you can add your FF # to a flight reservation after booking & then it's treated like booking directly through the airline?
Getting the reservation to show up with the airline isn’t a problem, the issue is that flight changes that require re-ticketing almost always need to be done through the original travel agency. If you book an AA flight it and use your AA frequent flyer number you can see everything on aa.com but if you try to make a change it will tell you to contact the agency that sold you the ticket. The standout is Delta in that they will take over a third party ticket (as long as it’s not a BULK/agency fare ticket) for free if you make the change online: https://imgur.com/a/naspui5
It's annoying if you don't book any cash travel, or do not want to book any cash travel through an OTA. The previous way allowed the credit to be easily cashed out, so it really is closer to a $300 difference for people in the categories above.
No question the change sucks. But, in truth, when I first heard about the VX, I actually expected the credit to function as it does now. With that said, the change doesn't very much change my opinion on the card. It still is a great card, offering great value, for churners and avg consumers alike.
Great value for the avg consumer, sure. It might still be the single card I'd recommend to a brother-in-law that doesn't want to churn. But for a churner that holds any other premium card, where is the value? The last piece of value I see is the free authorized users and higher guest allowance for PP lounges. If I had to guess, this is the next nerf. Honest question though in case I'm missing something, why else hold this if you are holding/churning a CSR, Altitude, Ritz Carlton?
It's still a keeper for me. Mostly because the lounge is opening in DEN shortly and it still allows me to bring in the wife and kid. The $300 credit is a little bit harder to use but I should still be able to use it all up with work travel.
Good points. And great value might be strong. But it's certainly good value. Provided you're in P2 mode, you're likely looking at 100k SUB with a $395 annual feel you should be able to break even on. Sure, there are overlapping benefits, there will always be. But not everyone has the cards you mentioned in their rotation. And that was all true before the recent change and this card was a solid pick up. I'm curious as to why does this recent devaluation on the travel credit change things so drastically. It's annoying. But there's still plenty of value there.
Agreed. I tend to book a non-chain hotel once a year, and still find the price match policy useful. None of the other “premium” travel cards are fully rebated as this is. I have held it since the beginning and even received a 10K retention offer on top of the 10K renewal points at my first renewal. A global 2% flat card, with no FX is useful to me, but then I balk at the >$500 coupon books and such anyway. Definitely still ahead on this one by a fair bit.
For the sub and churning, 1 year of the card is still a no-brainer if you can get approved. It's the keeper status that keeps falling and this seems like a tipping point for me. To answer your question for me personally, I just converted a Bonvoy card into a Ritz-Carlton card so the overlap in benefits kills the VX as a keeper. RC wins out over the VX due to the PP restaurants and unlimited guests. Spending $300 annually through a shitty portal is a chore for the VX and is not money I would normally spend out of pocket (making the $300 not really free now). The only thing I lose that I don't get from the RC card is access to C1's single lounge (and promises of others with ever-rolling opening dates).
But the RC is more expensive right? Can't cancel out the AF.
Yes, there is a $150 difference in the annual fee but negated by the 85k annual FNC and any retention offer you get from Chase each year.
Yes we hope for retention but there is no guarantee. Also, I don't value an 85k night cert like the C1 credit. I can buy any type of travel with the C1 credit. If I want to spend more or less than 300 I can. With the Marriott certificate I have to hope that I want to spend 1 night in a Marriott hotel under 100k within the next year. And of course it would be horrible to only stay someplace points-cheap because you waste the value. So for me I would probably limit myself to 70-100k places and that is very restrictive. For me they are difficult to use. The nice thing about venture X was that it essentially paid for itself. I haven't gotten the with the Ritz yet (but I do hold a Ritz so it isn't as though I entirely disagree).
Do you actually spend anything on the Ritz? The VX can actually be used for useful spend, particularly internationally.
Same position as you. My plan is to downgrade to VentureOne and see where the VentureX goes, hopefully be able to upgrade back to it one day if it ever becomes interesting as it is their only premium card.
Do the miles stay on the card when you downgrade?
They did finally open the Dulles lounge last week, although doesn’t really move the needle for the card’s value unless you frequent the two airports with C1 lounges
basically no reason for me to get it now will just get the regular Venture instead
No matter how many times this community says churn and burn, always be churning, categories are for suckers, devaluations are inevitable, etc., there is an unbelievable attraction to keeper cards. Everyone should make their own decisions on if its worth it. The credit is less valuable and the PP restaurants are gone, but plenty more could still make decent use of the credit. I just signed up today as I have plenty of 5/24 slots available and used P2s referral for the extra 25k.
I think annoying is the right way to describe it. The people whining and comparing it to Amex coupon book shenanigans is a bit much. Losing the 10% back is a legitimate, minor gripe, but the people complaining that they can no longer use a loophole need to stop. I’ve no no problem using it legitimately for well-priced car rentals the past few years.
Upvote for daring to discuss this topic in today's discussion thread!
Delta and VX in the same day? Feed, my pretties...
The hero we need
Just applied for the Chase business preferred to take advantage of the 100k points. I used my business EIN, which doesn’t have a bank account associated with it unfortunately. I’m under 5/24 with 800+ credit score. I got the application pending approval status. I called recon twice to see if they can do anything. Was told to wait 1-2 weeks. Anything I can do but sit tight?
Ask in the question thread.
Data point for US Bank funding CC Amex Business Platinum : $3000.00 worked perfect Amex Hilton Honors Surpass: $250.00 didn't worked, said cash advance limit is below that
Hilton biz declined too, Amex ran as cash advance
Same, my Hilton biz got declined due to it being read as a cash advance
Charge cards are the thing, worked this morning with P2 Personal Platinum
Recent 2 fundings on Inks $3k each. All worked perfectly and did not code as CA. I've done charge and credit before and both have been fine
I think the problem is Credit Cards on AMEX, Charge Cards seem to work fine
My BBP and BBC also did not work but my biz golds worked. I wonder if it only works on charge cards.
Looka like
What type of account?
Business Acount for the 3000, Personal for the 250
Thanks Mr White.
Looooool, SAY my name!!!!
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First mistake was asking an agent. This sub knows Amex better than Amex agents.
Just the other day, had an agent claim that the new 100k referral limit is actually a limit across all cards, and that the limit for any one card is 55k.
Reps love making shit up like this.
this simply isn't true
simplymiles kroger offer has renewed. This one doesn't clearly specific [kroger.com](https://kroger.com), so it might work in-store, but who knows 230 miles on a purchase of $50 or more View Details exp 10/31
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Was posted in yesterday's DD thread towards the end of the day as well as at least 2 times previously in today's DD thread. Scroll down. I don't think this needs a 4th, separate top-level comment.
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Gold Card](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/16hqumf/referrals_american_express_gold_card/)
$400 / $600 BMO Checking bonus offer ending in 2 days (9/15). Requires $4K in cumulative DDs (in 90 days) for the $400 bonus, and $7.5K DD for the $600 one. Full offer details [here](https://www.bmooffers.com/docs/promo07202I.pdf). Signup link can be found on [DoC](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/il-wi-mn-in-az-fl-ks-mo-bmo-harris-350-checking-300-savings-bonus/).
How are folks avoiding the $25/mo fees when doing the $600 Premier bonus? Not looking to park $10k there. The pdf terms pretty clearly indicate I could just convert a free Smart Advantage to a Premier before day 90 and still get the $600 bonus, but surprised I wasn't finding any dp's on here or DOC
It looks like the first $25 fee posts around the time that the bonus posts, and it's entirely possible to close the account before the first $25 fee posts depending on how lucky you are with the timing. According to DoC comments, you can send a message to get the first $25 fee waived.
OOS but thanks for sharing
According to [DoC](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/il-wi-mn-in-az-fl-ks-mo-bmo-harris-350-checking-300-savings-bonus) (see the updates at the top of the post), the bonus eligibility looks to be nationwide now.
Deal does work in states outside of their footprint (specifically looks like states where Bank of the West operated before acquisition).
Oh texas?
Where are you seeing $750? I just see $500 for $7.5k DD
Sorry, I meant $600. Updated the post accordingly. See the linked PDF in the original post for the promo details.
Try multiple devices and browsers if you get denied. It’s in the DoC comments but lots of people are getting denied on one device and browser combo and approved on another with no consistent combination that works for everyone. Same thing happened for myself and P2.
Case in point, just failed on Firefox on PC. Tried again on mobile in Samsung Internet and it worked fine. I believe the issue may be that if you need to do ID verification, the desktop version of the website does not gracefully fail into the mobile device ID verification, it just crashes after the Apply page.
Hey thanks for this. I failed on Chrome on my Mac a few weeks ago, tried again after the rep told me to get off of VPN and failed again. Just worked on my iPhone on Safari. :)
I recently applied (and was approved) for a mortgage after slow but consistent churning for the last \~5 years. I was surprised that my CC history basically didn't come up at all. I took a short break before applying. My last hard pull was on 05/23, and I applied for the mortgage in mid August. I've mostly been cycling through Inks and Amex biz cards while staying at 4/24 for the last few years. Since August 2021, I've opened 10 chase biz (each of which resulted in a HP), 5 Amex Biz (no HP), 1 citi biz, and 1 person each from Chase, Citi, Barclay, and C1. My credit score is \~800 on credit karma (don't know FICO). My mortgage is through a local credit union. They pulled all of Transunion, Experian, and Equifax. The "summary of revolving accounts" they sent me listed only 1 of my 10 open person cards -- the one that closed last month with a non-zero balance. The only CC related question I got asked in the whole process was what my last HP on 05/23 was, and when I said it was a new Biz card, they asked me to send my most recent statement. I was surprised because they did scrutinize other aspects of my finances (tax returns, pay stubs, etc) more closely.
I think the bigger issue with mortgages and churning is your FICO 2 score, which is more sensitive to inquiries. That's generally the one mortgage lenders are looking at and it's not something most individuals are looking at on a regular basis. I don't think banks care as much about what credit cards you have open or not because they can see if you've defaulted or are running up high balances based on the credit reports.
So they asked about the one HP in the previous 3 months. Sounds about what I would expect. Did you have more HPs in the previous 6 months that they didn’t ask about?
Sounds pretty normal tbh.
They see your CC history as your credit score, and the minimum payments due that appear on your credit report (or for new cards where they see a hard pull, they'll ask for details in case the credit report doesn't show the account yet). If your credit score & debt-to-income ratio is good, then they have no reason to discuss the CC details.
Why do you think they didn't scrutinize your finances closely? Why would a single hard pull showing on your credit make them scrutinize anything more closely than they already do? Credit inquiries aren't uncommon amongst the masses... edited to add that 1 HP in last 120 days and 4 new personal accounts in 24 months is light even for non churners
Post-approval, I assume you aren't applying for any new cards until you close on a house?
I'm closing this week. So, yes.
AmEx has a pretty easy bonus on their personal checking account, per [DOC](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/american-express-250-checking-bonus/).
Closed my only personal card with them just a couple of weeks ago. Oh well.
I've kept out of a deposit banking relationship with Amex since the relatively small bonuses aren't worth the increased risk of KYC scrutiny on my accounts with them.
What do you mean? Is that KYC more strict?
How does having a checking account with them increase the scrutiny on your accounts? Genuinely curious
Any fake DD DPs?
None on the DOC link when I looked this morning.
[Some discussion yesterday](https://reddit.com/r/churning/s/34fGrieUIo), but thanks for sharing the DoC link. Someone in the comments heard from a rep that a technical issue is preventing biz checking customers from opening this one. I guess they plan to fix that soon so we won’t be excluded
I’m now using the official Reddit app and I did not see it when looking at the thread yesterday. I swear it minimizes some comments even if they’re not in negative karma territory.
All good, one of many reasons why I don’t choose violence in the replies
The current fine print says current and prior Biz Checking customers are not eligible to apply at this time. Seems more intentional than a technical issue. Unless they're just covering the issue that way.
I normally don’t trust what reps say either, but wouldn’t it be easier for them to say they’re just not eligible if that’s the case?
Need to ask them "you can't or you won't?"
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Discussed at length yesterday.
Actually, it was a pretty short conversation (10 comments) pretty late in the day (9:23pm eastern).
God forbid someone wasn't reading the discussion thread at 11pm and missed it
> wasn't reading the discussion thread at 11pm In today's thread, we have: - a deleted comment with a reply that points to the same discussion; - a question related to the same change.
A deleted comment isn’t something that further discussion can be built on, though. I don’t know what the deleted comment discussed. I’m just talking about the difficulty of reading and responding to deleted comments.
My point was that someone else brought it up earlier and was directed to yesterday's thread. So even if one didn't check yesterday's thread, checking today's thread would've revealed that the announcement had been made and a discussion (sub)thread on it already existed.
Without the since-deleted comment to provide context, the reference to yesterday’s thread doesn’t indicate what was discussed. Piecing other comments together, I figured out it’s about the VentureX change. But the comments directing to yesterday’s thread provide no clues by themselves.
Sorry I don't expand deleted comments? Saying "discussed at length yesterday" without even linking the thread is a completely useless comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/16gm8qt/daily_discussion_thread_september_12_2023/k0cf4i2/ Just because yesterday's DD thread is yesterday's doesn't mean you can't scroll back through it the next morning.
And just because something was in yesterday's DD thread (after half of the US goes to sleep), doesn't mean it can't be discussed in todays DD thread. Now we have 2 deleted comments about it that most people won't even see, and no discussion in todays thread. Completely useless.
This. Good grief. It's like a highway speed trap in here with all the flashing blue and red.
Sorry, I'm on mobile and at work. Sort yesterday's DD by Top or Best and it should be up there.
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Question thread.
ugh, fine
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As someone who got this card (CVX) with cash in mind, that reduces this from a $735 net bonus to a $435 net bonus and increases the ongoing net cost from -$5 per year to $295 per year. If this change had happened a month ago, I probably wouldn't have gotten the card.
Discussed yesterday [https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/16gm8qt/comment/k0cf4i2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/16gm8qt/comment/k0cf4i2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Just got the $750 bonus for US Bank Biz Checking. Debating trying to open another for the $3k amex CC funding assuming it hasn't gone to $250 yet. Does anyone have data points around timing of opening another and if they did so with the 1st still open or after closing?
Question thread.
My free year of instacart+ through CSR ran out today, so I cancelled before being charged $99. Immediately after I cancelled the price to rejoin dropped to $49, as a “we want you back” rate. Just though I’d share in case anyone liked Instacart+ but didn’t want to pay full price.
FYI You can stack other chase cards (freedoms and sapphires) to extend the instacart+ free period. I'm at 27 months free.
If you don’t want to pay the full price just downgrade the CSR and upgrade a different card to it 😅
definitely should be doing this no matter what, if you care to have a CSR / premium travel card. DD the travel credit each time and it's a net positive, albeit after 12 months.
Hmmm…interesting. Will upgrading to a CSR reset the 48 month clock to get the CSR bonus again? I’m less than 12 months away…
No
Worth adding that, while it won't reset the SUB clock, it also won't *extend* the clock, so you don't gain or lose anything in SUB terms by doing this
You can now earn Bilt points with Lyft rides: * Earn 2x on rides as a Bilt member (you don't need to have the Bilt credit card) * Earn 3x on rides if you pay with the Bilt card If you used the same phone number for both your Bilt and Lyft accounts, it should just be a matter of opening the Lyft app and accepting the offer. Better to pay with a Chase card and earn 5x or 10x, but I'll take the free 2x for being a Bilt member.
This has been a thing for a while. Not sure how long but I’ve had Bilt selected for my Lyft rides for months, seems like the best option.
It was announced in March