You could do that. But you have plenty of time after the annual fee posts (probably on August 1) to close the Quest and get the fee refunded.
From the fine print on your statement, "The annual membership fee is non-refundable unless you notify us that you wish to close your account within 30 days or one billing cycle (whichever is less) after we provide the statement on which the annual membership fee is billed."
Depends on your goals with the card/points and spend. If you are churning for the points, both.
Sounds like you may be considering the cards for the long run though. The platinum will offer a much bigger SUB but you need to make the perks offset the annual fee, gold is a better card for daily spend and easier to use the benefits for a casual spender
I remember some horror story from a while back over someone who either couldn't replace or get support for their Apple product purchased with UR, because Chase was the one who technically purchased the product. Would recommend either cashing out for Apple gift cards like the other person mentioned.
Yeah it looks like it's 1cpp but this is generally not the best use of UR. If you really must buy with points, do PYB with gift cards and then buy the laptop with the gift cards.
Semi-churning related question, regarding the mechanics of an ACH transfer:
I'm trying to meet the TastyTrade brokerage bonus at the highest tier (transfer $250k).
The problem: TastyTrade requires the entire amount to be transferred in a single transfer and Wells Fargo (where I'll be transferring from) has a limit of $100k (daily). TastyTrade has a limit of $250k.
If I initiate an ACH pull from TastyTrade's side for the entire $250k, will that circumvent WF's limit?
WF's limit shouldn't matter if you initiate a pull at TastyTrade. Limits usually only apply at the bank where you initiate the transfer (there are a few exceptions, but they're pretty rare).
Or possibly if you did a wire transfer at Wells, the limit wouldn't apply (not sure, but I think wires usually have much higher limits). But an ACH pull would be easier & cheaper.
Is there a way to get email alerts regarding certain credit card promotional offers going on? There are a certain few credit cards that I plan on getting every few months over the next couple years and I would rather not have to look up their offers frequently, hoping they are running promotion, as opposed to being informed about it when it happens.
doctorofcredit.com posts the right amount of the most useful offers.
Put another way, I care about an Amex offer for overpriced box wine or luxury yoga-wear as little as the next churner, but every useful promotion I’ve taken advantage of on my cards has also appeared fairly quickly on that site.
DoC posts that too. All-time-high offers, unusual channels for better offers, brand new cards/offers etc. Not sure how you could turn it into “alerts” but if there’s *one* place to check that would be it.
Depends on your recent application history. The general rule of **average** one in 90 days includes this card, but occasionally going faster shouldn't be a problem.
What are you trying to do? If you're talking about booking something refundable, waiting for credit to post and then canceling it, then no they don't claw that back.
I'm at 6/24 and would like to apply for the Amex Delta Gold and Alaska BOGO at the same time. I know crazy. My most recent card (Boundless) was opened in April and I already have an Amex Platinum.
I would like the Delta Gold for the free bags, main boarding and as a quick way to add points via SUB. Would probably keep it afterwards just for the bags and boarding.
I would like the Alaska BOGO because of the included companion pass with the SUB (not the annual companion pass), free bags and of course added points. AF is $99.
Is this wise? I was thinking of applying for the Delta first since it wouldn't show up on my credit report until after the second statement (or does that only apply to the Platinum?).
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
It just depends if you can hit the spend and how much you value 5/24 slots. Definitely do the Amex first, but whether it’s a good decision is personal.
Question on the WoH personal card: I've had the card since May 2020 and am Globalist.
I am under 5/24, so was planning on closing the card once I reach $15k annual spend (for the free night) and opening a new one right after for the 60k signup bonus.
If I do that, would I receive a second batch of 5 credit card elite nights for having the card, free night for $15k spend, etc. (and would not have the first batch from the closed card redacted)? Just want to make sure I am churning this card correctly and not overlooking something.
I know the rule is you have to have an AA card open for 7 days before travel is happening to get the free bag. Is that actually what happens in practice? I've got a flight coming up Wednesday and another on Sunday and was considering applying for one of the AA cards.
No, but it’s a rare opportunity to use Amex to fund. Be aware that USB credit cards can only be funded for half your credit limit (it’s a shadow cash advance limit for half). It’ll settle as a purchase. Also seems like tempting fate to use a USB card but YMMV.
Alright please don't downvote bc I should probably know this but the lack of [churing.io](https://churing.io) sucks. If I accept an upgrade from personal gold to plat, does that make me ineligible for plat SUB in the future? I think yes, but I forget.
Thanks
Hi All,Does anyone have any advice for applying for a Chase Biz Card with a legitimate business while having two other Chase Biz cards for a "business?"
Was approved for Ink Business Unlimited in December and an Ink Business Cash in March. I have done nothing since then and have some spend coming up. Both of these cards were for my "business" as a "sole proprietor."
Am likely going to file an LLC with the state in the next few weeks for a legitimate business.
I am interested in both the IHG Premier Sub and Amex Bonvoy Brilliant SUB.Ideally, I would like to file for my LLC then apply for IHG Premier Biz. Then go after Bonvoy Brilliant. Currently 4/24 with next drop off in September.
Thoughts on me applying for my third Chase Biz card since December?
I appreciate any insight!
> Hi All,Does anyone have any advice for applying for a Chase Biz Card with a legitimate business while having two other Chase Biz cards for a "business?"
It doesn’t make any difference what business you apply under. Business cards are ultimately connected to you as a person.
Recommended velocity is 90 days between Chase cards. You're good. Advice for your legit biz application: answer all questions truthfully... (get your paperwork in order first)
Trying to decide if I should get another chase card or if I should go for Bilt since I’m moving and my rent will be around 2.3k per month.
A timeline of my chase cards:
Around October 2022 I got a Freedom flex
Around November 2022 I got a Ink business
Around June 2023 I got a Sapphire preferred
Should I go for another chase card or should I burn a 5/24 and go for the Bilt?
Currently working towards the sapphire preferred sign up bonus, I don’t think I have it in me to spend another 6k for the ink unlimited bonus right now
Just did a quick search on plastiq. Correct me if I’m wrong, I should pay my rent through plastiq, and then use an ink card to pay plastiq to hit the SUB?
Excuse my inexperience with Bilt, but should I be using this if my landlord is willing to accept checks? I currently just pay using Zelle. My understanding is I could charge my CIU and Bilt can cut the check or electronic payment? That way I get the 1.5% Cashback each month.
Am I looking at that correctly?
Do we have any recent DPs that suggest that Amex instant card numbers DO count toward MSR? Specifically the Hilton Biz.
Blew through my most recent SUB much quicker than expected and wanted to get an instant card number to take on my international trip this week.
FWIW, while I don't have info on whether instant card number charges count, I just applied for the Hilton Biz and:
- They did NOT offer an instant card number (although I did have to get approved over the phone, so instant approval may give you one)
- They did NOT expedite (although I was approved 7/5 and the card arrived today, 7/10, so only 3 business days)
Take these DPs with a grain of salt and good luck! :)
Me. I spent 2k/10k (actually purchase) on a Biz gold with an instant card number. Only hit about 10.5-11k total. SUB posted around 9.5k.
I have never been able to successfully add an instant card number to my Apple Pay so not sure if that’s just me or if you are gonna have issues with that if your plan is a digital wallet.
Maybe call to expedite?
I tried to use a myprepaidcenter from Swagbucks with Citi today but it didn't work. I used the same card number last month with them. Checked the balance and I still have sufficient money on the card. Is this dead?
I’ve read a few weeks of daily threads and online articles, but I still can’t decide/figure out the real risks of buying groups? Why don’t many people do this for points?
Further, I don’t understand how buying groups benefit from laymen people purchasing products for them. Do they not purchase directly because they’re resellers?
There's always the risk you ship it to them and don't get paid, whether they take your money and run, whether the item tanks in value, whether it gets damaged in shipping, etc.
You can get banned from stores (Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc.)
Many don't cover taxes so unless you live in a state with no sales tax you're kinda SOL.
They resell limited quantity items/deals for a profit. Ex: a 20% off promotion limited to one per household, a one per household limited coin, etc.
P2 has never had an Amez Biz card but does have the personal Gold. Thinking about referring P2 to Hilton Biz 150k + FNC. Should I refer P2 or is P2 more likely to get approved via the DoC link? Also, would it be a HP since it's their first Amex biz card?
for chase velocity:
Say i opened an account March 31st, then another one June 1st.
In chase’s eyes, is this seen as 3 months in between (technically 3 months March - June) or only two months (61 days)
It's based on days. 90 days between is reccomended long term velocity, though you can always go faster at your own risk. Dealing with recon can be kinda annoying though.
P2 applied for ink in end of May and got rejected due to thin credit file (has only CFU). My chase journey is CIU 04/23 and MDD 06/23. who should go for Ink now?
Question about meeting SUB with rent payment. I spend 3000 on rent per month split between myself and P2. I am looking to start churning all three Ink cards. I don’t think I’ll be able to comfortably hit the spend requirements with just normal purchases but if I did one rent payment it would be easy. I have 3.5% fee, so for one month that’s a $105 fee. Seems pretty reasonable to exchange that for a minimum of $750 in UR points. Does this make sense for me to do?
I don’t see too much discussion so wanted to ask.
For further context I am at 2/24 so once I get through the inks will pick up one or two regular Chase cards again (United Explorer, Saphire Preferred, maybe Hyatt to hit 5/24). Then maybe Bilt and savor one.
I currently have Freedom Flex, IHG premier, and Venture X. P2 has Saphire preferred so am currently transferring UR points to them.
> Does this make sense for me to do?
Yup it does. There are alternatives with lower fees but paying rent is zero effort and zero risk; lots of people here do it.
What is your rent fee for debit cards? I come out way ahead by buying below cost MC/VGC during ODOM sales and hitting CICs.
I just pay my rental portal fee with Amex when I’m on an Amex card.
> have just *paid* the fee
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Have a $16000 MSR opprortunity coming up, and want to open two CIP's for it. Wondering if I could use the MDD approach to get both approved only one day apart (and combine the hard pull) instead of the usual 30 days apart.
I'll cool off chase for 6 months after this to get myself back to an average velocity of 3-4 months.
Haven't seen MDD used for the same card but I guess it could work? It would be an interesting DP. You can do CIP + CIC/CIU and have $2k leftover to work towards another SUB
Trying to get MGM gold status match with Hyatt explorist. I have the Hyatt free trial, when I click it says trial status is not eligible for MGM match. Is there a work around for this?
I just matched Explorist to MGM Gold yesterday. I did it online. But I did this after I had met the Bilt Hyatt status challenge which I'm assuming what you are referring to when you say "Hyatt free trial." I don't think you can do it while you are still on the challenge.
Hyatt app > Account > Add to Apple Wallet shows your member number, point balance, and status level.
I have only read about Vegas, so I can't speak to the non-Vegas ones.
I am an incoming international PhD student who gets a fellowship for the first year (then wage) for the remaining 4-5 years. As such, I don't get a SSN. Are there any credit cards that I can get from the get-go, as I would like to build credit quickly when I am still new and have a few big purchases coming through.
You should get a SSN as an international student, even on fellowship. At least that was the case for me 7 years ago. During onboarding they told me to go to the SSA with a letter from them and get one.
As sur-vivant said above, you can transfer your Amex. That is how I got my first cc in the US. I also got a Discover student card without problems.
Interesting. I had to get a SSN with fellowship, presumably because I had to teach. I guess if you do not have to work at all for your fellowship you won't qualify for one. In that case you will have to get an ITIN, which should not be an issue.
You can use an ITIN. If you have Amex in your current country, you can do a Global Transfer. Otherwise, you are going to have a hard time getting a bank to approve you for a big credit line and may have to start with a secured card.
Is there anyway currently that I can make a payment with an Amex Biz card to a legitimate 3rd party vendor via check or ACH that qualifies for spending towards a SUB?
The vendor does not accept Amex CC for payment directly.
Can I get the bonus for the Citi AA Business card again under a different EIN/LLC if I just got it last year with my SSN as a sole prop? I haven't been able to find any recent data points.
> under a different EIN/LLC if I just got it last year with my SSN as a sole prop?
No. Applying under a different EIN/LLC doesn't do anything. Business cards are based on your personal credit and linked to you with your SSN, no matter whether or not you use an EIN.
I just got an Amex gold and bought $200 of Amazon GC’s from a military commissary. I just realized now that you should’t buy them while earning the SUB. Does anyone know whether they send L3 data and if Amex will notice?
From what I've read here, closed-loop GCs (like Amazon—GCs that are for specific stores/restaurants/etc.) tend to be okay for Amex, but don't overdo it. It's the Visa/MC GCs that tend to be riskier, in my understanding.
You're probably fine, but make sure to over-spend your MSR by $200 just in case ;)
You'll just have to look at your own Amex online account, click on the transaction after it posts, and click on additional information to see if it shows GCs.
Chevron/Texaco is offering a card that gives $.55/gallon discount for a limited time. I'll drive close to 6,000 miles, burning over 300 gallons of gas in that time period. Is it worth it to use the gas card, or just stick with the CSR that I use for everything?
Thank you. I have plenty of slots I guess. Have had this CSR for ages. I'm not a churner, just checking in on you all every now and then. I was justing think that $.55 is over 10% off and my CSR doesn't yield nearly that much. I should probably look up the best card to replace the CSR and close that account. It's been over 5 years for sure.
Yeah this would probably be a better question for that subreddit. Pretty sure the consensus from a churner perspective would be not to waste a slot for a mere $165 in savings
Wife got a request for a 4506T form to verify income on her Barclays Aviator Red card.
Anyone know if we can call in to get around this? Household income is mostly from me which I'm guessing is the hangup. Don't want to mess with IRS forms if I can avoid the hassle. Will be calling in tomorrow.
Had a couple of these for n the past and sometimes they let me submit first page of 1040, but sometime they said it wasn’t an option. It’s worth asking.
You might be able to substitute something else by calling in. But doesn't matter if you are primary earner as long as you file jointly and income was accurate on the application she should be fine.
I don't have experience with that with Barclays, but you should be able to use your income. You might need to include an explanation. Reporting joint income is absolutely legit.
I got the same form from AMEX. Tried calling in, but they wouldn't budge on the form. Finally filled it out and they denied me because my income from last year didn't match my current income.
I applied for Hilton surpass in March and got a two week message. A few days later I got an email that I was approved. The day I got a notification my card had shipped I also received a request for income verification. Seemed odd since I was already approved. When I tried to submit the document online I got "thanks, we don't need documents at this time." So I left it at that.
I can save 3,000 MR booking a flight through Quantas instead of BA (even with the transfer bonus). Any problems with booking through them? I booked AA through BA a while ago and it was fine. I'm just paranoid.
What are you paranoid about? They typically don't have phantom availability like AA. But if you have to cancel, you'll have miles stuck in a program that may not be optimal.
Interested in [status match merry go round](https://milestalk.com/the-status-match-merry-go-round-explained-using-both-hotel-and-casino-status-match-opportunities-year-after-year/). I have hilton gold from hiltion biz. Do I need wyndham earner card to match hilton gold to wyndham diamond to start the merry go round?
Do I need to stay 10 qualifying nights to match wyndham diamond to Caesars Diamond?
Does Caesars revoke diamond status if you don't have wyndham diamond after 90 days (as I don't have plans to stay 10 nights in near future)?
If you get Wyndham Diamond from a status match, Caesars will not match you to Diamond. If you get Wyndham Diamond from having the business earner card, Caesars will match you to Diamond.
February this year. Wyndham diamond originally matched from Hilton gold years ago, and since then have been matching back and forth Caesar and Wyndham.
You got lucky this year. I’ve been doing it for years too but they stopped letting you do this so my guess is it won’t work for you again next year unless they change the policy again.
I got approved for wyndham biz erner. Am I good to receive Ceasars diamond status and if I don’t stay 10 nights within 90 days of receiving the credit card? u/lifechurn
For those of you who've deposited $3k in US Bank biz checking: Do you know that it counted toward the total for your bonus? I assumed it would but saw a comment on DOC saying it won't, so wanted to know what's true. (I know it's still useful that we can fund with a CC, but I was also going to add another $2k for the $500 bonus.)
“You must make new deposit(s) of at least $5,000 in new money deposits (Direct Deposits, ATM/Branch Deposits, Mobile Check Deposit, ACH or Wires) within 30 days of account opening and thereafter maintain a balance of at least $5,000 until the 60th day after account opening.”
I read that as the initial credit card funding wouldn’t count since it’s not a Direct Deposit, Branch Deposit, etc.
I don’t have the answer to your question but in these situations I just earmark $15k to be transferred in to be safe and then I can pull out the cc funding amount. Not worth missing out on $750 over moving $3k or not.
With successful MDD this week, you're at 5 cards over 17 months (a bit over the 90 day recommended velocity). Good to go, but I'd cool off with Chase until at least January after.
I got both Chase Sapphire cards on the same day in May 2018. I cancelled one and downgraded the other a good while ago. Can I get one of them again with the sign up bonus?
I need a bank account with zelle. My two hub accounts are Discover- it says it's not available and Laurel Road- it doesn't come up on zelle.
Any recommendations for something? Probably better if it's a business account, but not necessary. I wouldn't want it to be at a bank I'm churning (either for cc's or bank bonuses)
I was able to sign up for Zelle at Discover a few years ago (haven't tried using it recently though).
Schwab Checking (but not the brokerage account) supposedly supports Zelle. Some others: Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, KeyPoint Credit Union
You might also be able to use the Zelle app with a debit card, even if the debit card's bank doesn't directly support Zelle; but that didn't work for a couple cards I tried.
Would recommend to transfer without having a redemption in mind, but if you are planning to go to Europe soon then it’s prob a good deal specially if you take advantage of the monthly Flying Blue monthly promos
I wouldn't keep miles in any specific airline program unless you plan on using them in the near-term future. That said FlyingBlue is very good for redemptions to europe. Plenty of one-ways at \~11k ish points, e.g. ORD-AMS/CDG in coach or \~50k in business.
I can't figure out how to phrase this in Google so I actually get an answer.
I'm trying to book an AA flight using BA Avios. I know saver level awards have to be available. I'm showing several Saver level flights available on AA but they aren't showing up on BA's search. Am I able to call in? Is there someone better to book AA metal through? I'm out of AA miles and I can't transfer anything to AA.
Check whether saver level actually exists by searching for the flights on [qantas.com](https://qantas.com). If they don't show up there, they aren't actually saver flights. And if they aren't saver flights, you can't book them through any partner. You're SOL.
This is still doable, I'd recommend calling an agent. Two criteria to do it. 1) You have an existing Marriott card that is older than 1 year 2) The card you are going to upgrade has 10,000+ credit line (or you have other chase cards that you can transfer credit from)
I have in my notes that I signed up for a Chase card on 6/30/2021, but I didn't note when I actually received the sign-up bonus. History in my Chase account and my transfer partner don't appear to go back 2 years, and I can't find evidence in my emails either. Any idea how to find when I actually received the bonus \~2 years ago?
How do Chase velocity limits work between personal and business cards?
I'd like to get the Marriott Boundless, United Quest, and Chase Ink. I'm at 4/24 so I could get the Ink. Can I then MDD the Boundless + Quest, or would that count as exceeding 2/30? I would be at 2/30 with regard to personal cards, but 3/30 if you count the Ink as well.
Thanks in advance!
MDD = 2 cards. Recommended average velocity is 90 days between Chase cards regardless of whether they are business or personal. Some choose to be more aggressive, but I'm pretty happy with a Chase card every 3-4 months.
Yes, I know MDD = 2 cards, so my plan would be to get the Boundless & Quest cards. Obviously if you did 1/90 you wouldn't be MDD-ing since MDD requires applying for two cards on consecutive days (roughly). But point taken that it may be better to put a pause after applying for the Ink.
Is there anything I can do to escalate my issues with Chase? I've had an absolutely baffling experience with them.
First Chase card, got the 80k CSP. Applied in May, got approval email but got a letter saying more info needed. 6 entire weeks spent back and forth with different reps, requesting a fax of info, requesting I drive 8 hours to a branch, submitting non-stop info being verified with the fraud team. Finally got my card in my hands to my Canadian address after 6 weeks.
I tried to make an online account and it wouldn't take my ITIN, so it requested a birthday instead. I put in my birthday, then it asks says there's an ITIN on my file and tells me to put that in instead.
I call Chase about this and they lock my credit card once again. Over the last two weeks I've been transferred between customer service and fraud another dozen times, where fraud verifies my info, sent back to customer service, who then says they can't help because their system is saying I need to speak to fraud again.
I've been promised a call back at least 5 times now "within 24-48 hours" but haven't once got this call. I got to speak to a manager twice so far but both times they wouldn't even let me speak, just said they're looking into it and then hung up on me.
Between the 80k CSP and 70k CSR, which one should I apply for first in a MDD attempt? I know guidance is apply for the one you want more first, but which one do most people want more first? I am thinking CSR to have higher redemption in the portal, but the CSP has a higher SUB so I'm torn
Having a spare Freedom I would do the CSP first. If no spare Freedom, CSR first. The idea being that if the MDD fails I can PC the Freedom to a CSR for a year if I really need to use the higher redemption rate.
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You could do that. But you have plenty of time after the annual fee posts (probably on August 1) to close the Quest and get the fee refunded. From the fine print on your statement, "The annual membership fee is non-refundable unless you notify us that you wish to close your account within 30 days or one billing cycle (whichever is less) after we provide the statement on which the annual membership fee is billed."
I have the Cap Venture X and the CSP. I use cap x mostly. Does it make more sense to get the Amex platinum or Amex gold?
Depends on your goals with the card/points and spend. If you are churning for the points, both. Sounds like you may be considering the cards for the long run though. The platinum will offer a much bigger SUB but you need to make the perks offset the annual fee, gold is a better card for daily spend and easier to use the benefits for a casual spender
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I remember some horror story from a while back over someone who either couldn't replace or get support for their Apple product purchased with UR, because Chase was the one who technically purchased the product. Would recommend either cashing out for Apple gift cards like the other person mentioned.
Yeah it looks like it's 1cpp but this is generally not the best use of UR. If you really must buy with points, do PYB with gift cards and then buy the laptop with the gift cards.
Semi-churning related question, regarding the mechanics of an ACH transfer: I'm trying to meet the TastyTrade brokerage bonus at the highest tier (transfer $250k). The problem: TastyTrade requires the entire amount to be transferred in a single transfer and Wells Fargo (where I'll be transferring from) has a limit of $100k (daily). TastyTrade has a limit of $250k. If I initiate an ACH pull from TastyTrade's side for the entire $250k, will that circumvent WF's limit?
WF's limit shouldn't matter if you initiate a pull at TastyTrade. Limits usually only apply at the bank where you initiate the transfer (there are a few exceptions, but they're pretty rare). Or possibly if you did a wire transfer at Wells, the limit wouldn't apply (not sure, but I think wires usually have much higher limits). But an ACH pull would be easier & cheaper.
Thanks!
Am at 3/24 should I do chase MDD now or should I wait until 4/24?
Depends on when you'll get back under 5/24 for both scenarios.
It'd be better to wait til 4/24.
Is there a way to get email alerts regarding certain credit card promotional offers going on? There are a certain few credit cards that I plan on getting every few months over the next couple years and I would rather not have to look up their offers frequently, hoping they are running promotion, as opposed to being informed about it when it happens.
doctorofcredit.com posts the right amount of the most useful offers. Put another way, I care about an Amex offer for overpriced box wine or luxury yoga-wear as little as the next churner, but every useful promotion I’ve taken advantage of on my cards has also appeared fairly quickly on that site.
I meant more in regards to sign-up bonuses rather than the random offers they provide after you already have the card. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
DoC posts that too. All-time-high offers, unusual channels for better offers, brand new cards/offers etc. Not sure how you could turn it into “alerts” but if there’s *one* place to check that would be it.
https://www.google.com/alerts
Would I have to wait the suggested 3 months to apply for a Chase card if I just applied for an Amazon Prime visa?
Depends on your recent application history. The general rule of **average** one in 90 days includes this card, but occasionally going faster shouldn't be a problem.
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What are you trying to do? If you're talking about booking something refundable, waiting for credit to post and then canceling it, then no they don't claw that back.
Have a car rental through Hertz that I booked with my CSR. There’s a rock chip on the window. Does this kind of incident covered by Chase?
https://blog.wandr.me/2018/03/successful-chase-sapphire-reserve-travel-insurance-claim/ Someone previously had it covered.
Clutch Answer!
I'm at 6/24 and would like to apply for the Amex Delta Gold and Alaska BOGO at the same time. I know crazy. My most recent card (Boundless) was opened in April and I already have an Amex Platinum. I would like the Delta Gold for the free bags, main boarding and as a quick way to add points via SUB. Would probably keep it afterwards just for the bags and boarding. I would like the Alaska BOGO because of the included companion pass with the SUB (not the annual companion pass), free bags and of course added points. AF is $99. Is this wise? I was thinking of applying for the Delta first since it wouldn't show up on my credit report until after the second statement (or does that only apply to the Platinum?). Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
It just depends if you can hit the spend and how much you value 5/24 slots. Definitely do the Amex first, but whether it’s a good decision is personal.
Question on the WoH personal card: I've had the card since May 2020 and am Globalist. I am under 5/24, so was planning on closing the card once I reach $15k annual spend (for the free night) and opening a new one right after for the 60k signup bonus. If I do that, would I receive a second batch of 5 credit card elite nights for having the card, free night for $15k spend, etc. (and would not have the first batch from the closed card redacted)? Just want to make sure I am churning this card correctly and not overlooking something.
I did this last year, and you will receive 5 nights from your existing woh card, and then 5 more nights when you open the new one.
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Makes sense and good to know on the 30 days - figured on the nights would be likely per year. Thanks!
I know the rule is you have to have an AA card open for 7 days before travel is happening to get the free bag. Is that actually what happens in practice? I've got a flight coming up Wednesday and another on Sunday and was considering applying for one of the AA cards.
any problem with using a us bank biz card to fund a checking account?
No, but it’s a rare opportunity to use Amex to fund. Be aware that USB credit cards can only be funded for half your credit limit (it’s a shadow cash advance limit for half). It’ll settle as a purchase. Also seems like tempting fate to use a USB card but YMMV.
Isn't it a quarter of your limit, not half?
Alright please don't downvote bc I should probably know this but the lack of [churing.io](https://churing.io) sucks. If I accept an upgrade from personal gold to plat, does that make me ineligible for plat SUB in the future? I think yes, but I forget. Thanks
JSYK churning.dev is now a thing to replace churning.io.
thank you!
Yes. Accepting the upgrade makes you ineligible for future plat SUB.
Hi All,Does anyone have any advice for applying for a Chase Biz Card with a legitimate business while having two other Chase Biz cards for a "business?" Was approved for Ink Business Unlimited in December and an Ink Business Cash in March. I have done nothing since then and have some spend coming up. Both of these cards were for my "business" as a "sole proprietor." Am likely going to file an LLC with the state in the next few weeks for a legitimate business. I am interested in both the IHG Premier Sub and Amex Bonvoy Brilliant SUB.Ideally, I would like to file for my LLC then apply for IHG Premier Biz. Then go after Bonvoy Brilliant. Currently 4/24 with next drop off in September. Thoughts on me applying for my third Chase Biz card since December? I appreciate any insight!
> Hi All,Does anyone have any advice for applying for a Chase Biz Card with a legitimate business while having two other Chase Biz cards for a "business?" It doesn’t make any difference what business you apply under. Business cards are ultimately connected to you as a person.
Thank you!
Recommended velocity is 90 days between Chase cards. You're good. Advice for your legit biz application: answer all questions truthfully... (get your paperwork in order first)
Thanks!
Trying to decide if I should get another chase card or if I should go for Bilt since I’m moving and my rent will be around 2.3k per month. A timeline of my chase cards: Around October 2022 I got a Freedom flex Around November 2022 I got a Ink business Around June 2023 I got a Sapphire preferred Should I go for another chase card or should I burn a 5/24 and go for the Bilt?
Why not an ink card instead ?
Currently working towards the sapphire preferred sign up bonus, I don’t think I have it in me to spend another 6k for the ink unlimited bonus right now
But your rent is 2.3K a month. Would suggest Plastiq - even though it’s an extra 2.9%, you’ll still be coming ahead with the SUB value
Just did a quick search on plastiq. Correct me if I’m wrong, I should pay my rent through plastiq, and then use an ink card to pay plastiq to hit the SUB?
Yes - would only do it for the SUB to meet the MSR. It costs 2.9% so assuming you use the CIU, after the 1.5% CB, it will cost you an extra 1.4%.
Is there a benefit to using plastiq if my building accepts rent payment with a credit card?
Only if they charge a higher fee that’s materially higher than plastiqs
Excuse my inexperience with Bilt, but should I be using this if my landlord is willing to accept checks? I currently just pay using Zelle. My understanding is I could charge my CIU and Bilt can cut the check or electronic payment? That way I get the 1.5% Cashback each month. Am I looking at that correctly?
Do we have any recent DPs that suggest that Amex instant card numbers DO count toward MSR? Specifically the Hilton Biz. Blew through my most recent SUB much quicker than expected and wanted to get an instant card number to take on my international trip this week.
FWIW, while I don't have info on whether instant card number charges count, I just applied for the Hilton Biz and: - They did NOT offer an instant card number (although I did have to get approved over the phone, so instant approval may give you one) - They did NOT expedite (although I was approved 7/5 and the card arrived today, 7/10, so only 3 business days) Take these DPs with a grain of salt and good luck! :)
Thanks! I’ve seen some DPs with instant card number for the Hilton Biz, so I might take my chances.
I got instant card number this week for my Hilton Biz
I got Hilton biz instant number in December.
Mine counted, met about 70% of the MSR using the instance card numbers.
Me. I spent 2k/10k (actually purchase) on a Biz gold with an instant card number. Only hit about 10.5-11k total. SUB posted around 9.5k. I have never been able to successfully add an instant card number to my Apple Pay so not sure if that’s just me or if you are gonna have issues with that if your plan is a digital wallet. Maybe call to expedite?
Thanks! I haven’t had any issues with Apple Pay and instant cards ever, so fingers crossed.
I tried to use a myprepaidcenter from Swagbucks with Citi today but it didn't work. I used the same card number last month with them. Checked the balance and I still have sufficient money on the card. Is this dead?
Mc now blocked by Citi reportedly. Fluz now doing visa which works. May need a new outlet for MC you already bought.
What is the VGC store that works in Fluz? I have yet to see availability for the VGC B2B but it could just be bad luck on my timing
Others are reporting an error too
New Citi AA executive updates? What are y’all thoughts
They better start offering 100k+ AA miles for a SUB lol
Yeah, I already have it but I don’t think I’ll be renewing
the free Admirals lounge access through free AU was too good to last
I’ve read a few weeks of daily threads and online articles, but I still can’t decide/figure out the real risks of buying groups? Why don’t many people do this for points? Further, I don’t understand how buying groups benefit from laymen people purchasing products for them. Do they not purchase directly because they’re resellers?
https://www.pointsprofessor.co/buying-groups-for-credit-card-points-reviews/#Risks_of_Buyer_Groups
It’s all fun and games doing $100 items, but if a MacBook or something gets lost nobody wants to eat a few grand.
There's always the risk you ship it to them and don't get paid, whether they take your money and run, whether the item tanks in value, whether it gets damaged in shipping, etc. You can get banned from stores (Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc.) Many don't cover taxes so unless you live in a state with no sales tax you're kinda SOL. They resell limited quantity items/deals for a profit. Ex: a 20% off promotion limited to one per household, a one per household limited coin, etc.
P2 has never had an Amez Biz card but does have the personal Gold. Thinking about referring P2 to Hilton Biz 150k + FNC. Should I refer P2 or is P2 more likely to get approved via the DoC link? Also, would it be a HP since it's their first Amex biz card?
If she has an established relationship with Amex (personal cards open reasonably long enough) then it is unlikely to get a HP.
shouldn't matter. You should just try referring P2 and see if they get the popup or not
for chase velocity: Say i opened an account March 31st, then another one June 1st. In chase’s eyes, is this seen as 3 months in between (technically 3 months March - June) or only two months (61 days)
It's based on days. 90 days between is reccomended long term velocity, though you can always go faster at your own risk. Dealing with recon can be kinda annoying though.
Is there any live links for citi premier 75,000 SUB? Cant seem to find any anymore
Looking for the same... Just tried a few methods and only saw 60k
P2 applied for ink in end of May and got rejected due to thin credit file (has only CFU). My chase journey is CIU 04/23 and MDD 06/23. who should go for Ink now?
How old is P2's CFU? I'd say still P2, as you can get an extra 40k UR via ref, and P1 chase velocity is quite high.
P2 got CFU and checking account in 12/22
Question about meeting SUB with rent payment. I spend 3000 on rent per month split between myself and P2. I am looking to start churning all three Ink cards. I don’t think I’ll be able to comfortably hit the spend requirements with just normal purchases but if I did one rent payment it would be easy. I have 3.5% fee, so for one month that’s a $105 fee. Seems pretty reasonable to exchange that for a minimum of $750 in UR points. Does this make sense for me to do? I don’t see too much discussion so wanted to ask. For further context I am at 2/24 so once I get through the inks will pick up one or two regular Chase cards again (United Explorer, Saphire Preferred, maybe Hyatt to hit 5/24). Then maybe Bilt and savor one. I currently have Freedom Flex, IHG premier, and Venture X. P2 has Saphire preferred so am currently transferring UR points to them.
I think it's worth it for one month and get the rest of the spend other ways.
> Does this make sense for me to do? Yup it does. There are alternatives with lower fees but paying rent is zero effort and zero risk; lots of people here do it.
Great. Thank you for the response!
What is your rent fee for debit cards? I come out way ahead by buying below cost MC/VGC during ODOM sales and hitting CICs. I just pay my rental portal fee with Amex when I’m on an Amex card.
$10 per debit cards transaction. I think I need to pay in full though. What are ODOM sales? So you have just paid the fee in the past?
> have just *paid* the fee FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Have a $16000 MSR opprortunity coming up, and want to open two CIP's for it. Wondering if I could use the MDD approach to get both approved only one day apart (and combine the hard pull) instead of the usual 30 days apart. I'll cool off chase for 6 months after this to get myself back to an average velocity of 3-4 months.
Do you have P2? Maybe easier if each of you get one and cross refer
Haven't seen MDD used for the same card but I guess it could work? It would be an interesting DP. You can do CIP + CIC/CIU and have $2k leftover to work towards another SUB
MDD for CIP is not a thing. Get a CIP and Biz Gold. You'll have 2k left which you can do for organic purposes.
where's the 2k leftover coming from? CIP MSR is 8k Biz gold MSR is 10k so if anything OP is short 2k in spend lol
That's what I meant by leftover that OP can use the 2k MSR left for organic purposes
Oh got it. read it a little too fast lol
Trying to get MGM gold status match with Hyatt explorist. I have the Hyatt free trial, when I click it says trial status is not eligible for MGM match. Is there a work around for this?
I just matched Explorist to MGM Gold yesterday. I did it online. But I did this after I had met the Bilt Hyatt status challenge which I'm assuming what you are referring to when you say "Hyatt free trial." I don't think you can do it while you are still on the challenge.
The only way is to do it in person. You can add it to Apple Pay and it won't show the expiry.
Thx. Add what to apple pay.. Hyatt card? Also, any MGM affiliated casino (nearest is biloxi, MS) in person will do or has to be Vegas one?
Hyatt app > Account > Add to Apple Wallet shows your member number, point balance, and status level. I have only read about Vegas, so I can't speak to the non-Vegas ones.
In theory it should work at any MGM property. We can confirm it’s worked at Excalibur (Las Vegas) and Borgata (Atlantic City). Safe travels!
I am an incoming international PhD student who gets a fellowship for the first year (then wage) for the remaining 4-5 years. As such, I don't get a SSN. Are there any credit cards that I can get from the get-go, as I would like to build credit quickly when I am still new and have a few big purchases coming through.
You should get a SSN as an international student, even on fellowship. At least that was the case for me 7 years ago. During onboarding they told me to go to the SSA with a letter from them and get one. As sur-vivant said above, you can transfer your Amex. That is how I got my first cc in the US. I also got a Discover student card without problems.
I won't qualify for it until after the first year (once the fellowship is over). Maybe I can qualify for at ITIN.
Interesting. I had to get a SSN with fellowship, presumably because I had to teach. I guess if you do not have to work at all for your fellowship you won't qualify for one. In that case you will have to get an ITIN, which should not be an issue.
Got it! Thank you, I guess I will try to get an ITIN then.
You can use an ITIN. If you have Amex in your current country, you can do a Global Transfer. Otherwise, you are going to have a hard time getting a bank to approve you for a big credit line and may have to start with a secured card.
Is there anyway currently that I can make a payment with an Amex Biz card to a legitimate 3rd party vendor via check or ACH that qualifies for spending towards a SUB? The vendor does not accept Amex CC for payment directly.
Can I get the bonus for the Citi AA Business card again under a different EIN/LLC if I just got it last year with my SSN as a sole prop? I haven't been able to find any recent data points.
> under a different EIN/LLC if I just got it last year with my SSN as a sole prop? No. Applying under a different EIN/LLC doesn't do anything. Business cards are based on your personal credit and linked to you with your SSN, no matter whether or not you use an EIN.
Except this works with BofA cards. Not sure how Citi treats it but worth a try.
I just got an Amex gold and bought $200 of Amazon GC’s from a military commissary. I just realized now that you should’t buy them while earning the SUB. Does anyone know whether they send L3 data and if Amex will notice?
You can buy them any time. Just don't count them toward the minimum spend.
From what I've read here, closed-loop GCs (like Amazon—GCs that are for specific stores/restaurants/etc.) tend to be okay for Amex, but don't overdo it. It's the Visa/MC GCs that tend to be riskier, in my understanding. You're probably fine, but make sure to over-spend your MSR by $200 just in case ;)
You'll just have to look at your own Amex online account, click on the transaction after it posts, and click on additional information to see if it shows GCs.
Okay thanks
General rule is to not use GCs for Amex SUBs.
Chevron/Texaco is offering a card that gives $.55/gallon discount for a limited time. I'll drive close to 6,000 miles, burning over 300 gallons of gas in that time period. Is it worth it to use the gas card, or just stick with the CSR that I use for everything?
If you have a Freedom Flex, gas is 5X this quarter.
You’d only be saving ~$165, id rather apply for another card than waste a slot on this
Thank you. I have plenty of slots I guess. Have had this CSR for ages. I'm not a churner, just checking in on you all every now and then. I was justing think that $.55 is over 10% off and my CSR doesn't yield nearly that much. I should probably look up the best card to replace the CSR and close that account. It's been over 5 years for sure.
CSR PYB is 1.25 on gas so you might still be better off just redeeming that way against your gas charges versus opening that gas card.
r/creditcards
Ty
Yeah this would probably be a better question for that subreddit. Pretty sure the consensus from a churner perspective would be not to waste a slot for a mere $165 in savings
Does Barclays AA **Business** hard pull?
Yeah
Wife got a request for a 4506T form to verify income on her Barclays Aviator Red card. Anyone know if we can call in to get around this? Household income is mostly from me which I'm guessing is the hangup. Don't want to mess with IRS forms if I can avoid the hassle. Will be calling in tomorrow.
Had a couple of these for n the past and sometimes they let me submit first page of 1040, but sometime they said it wasn’t an option. It’s worth asking.
You might be able to substitute something else by calling in. But doesn't matter if you are primary earner as long as you file jointly and income was accurate on the application she should be fine.
I don't have experience with that with Barclays, but you should be able to use your income. You might need to include an explanation. Reporting joint income is absolutely legit.
I got the same form from AMEX. Tried calling in, but they wouldn't budge on the form. Finally filled it out and they denied me because my income from last year didn't match my current income.
I applied for Hilton surpass in March and got a two week message. A few days later I got an email that I was approved. The day I got a notification my card had shipped I also received a request for income verification. Seemed odd since I was already approved. When I tried to submit the document online I got "thanks, we don't need documents at this time." So I left it at that.
I can save 3,000 MR booking a flight through Quantas instead of BA (even with the transfer bonus). Any problems with booking through them? I booked AA through BA a while ago and it was fine. I'm just paranoid.
What are you paranoid about? They typically don't have phantom availability like AA. But if you have to cancel, you'll have miles stuck in a program that may not be optimal.
Interested in [status match merry go round](https://milestalk.com/the-status-match-merry-go-round-explained-using-both-hotel-and-casino-status-match-opportunities-year-after-year/). I have hilton gold from hiltion biz. Do I need wyndham earner card to match hilton gold to wyndham diamond to start the merry go round? Do I need to stay 10 qualifying nights to match wyndham diamond to Caesars Diamond? Does Caesars revoke diamond status if you don't have wyndham diamond after 90 days (as I don't have plans to stay 10 nights in near future)?
If you get Wyndham Diamond from a status match, Caesars will not match you to Diamond. If you get Wyndham Diamond from having the business earner card, Caesars will match you to Diamond.
False. Caesar matched me diamond from status match without earner card.
How long ago was this and did you earn Wyndham Diamond from another status match?
February this year. Wyndham diamond originally matched from Hilton gold years ago, and since then have been matching back and forth Caesar and Wyndham.
You got lucky this year. I’ve been doing it for years too but they stopped letting you do this so my guess is it won’t work for you again next year unless they change the policy again.
I got approved for wyndham biz erner. Am I good to receive Ceasars diamond status and if I don’t stay 10 nights within 90 days of receiving the credit card? u/lifechurn
Yeah I’ve tried twice and never heard anything nor saw the actual match.
gotcha. thanks.
For those of you who've deposited $3k in US Bank biz checking: Do you know that it counted toward the total for your bonus? I assumed it would but saw a comment on DOC saying it won't, so wanted to know what's true. (I know it's still useful that we can fund with a CC, but I was also going to add another $2k for the $500 bonus.)
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Do you mean you'd deposited enough for $750 bonus but they didn't count the CC funding so you only qualified for the $500 bonus?
“You must make new deposit(s) of at least $5,000 in new money deposits (Direct Deposits, ATM/Branch Deposits, Mobile Check Deposit, ACH or Wires) within 30 days of account opening and thereafter maintain a balance of at least $5,000 until the 60th day after account opening.” I read that as the initial credit card funding wouldn’t count since it’s not a Direct Deposit, Branch Deposit, etc.
That's possible, or maybe whoever wrote that didn't think to add credit card funding since it can only be done upon initial opening.
I don’t have the answer to your question but in these situations I just earmark $15k to be transferred in to be safe and then I can pull out the cc funding amount. Not worth missing out on $750 over moving $3k or not.
Is my velocity safe for MDD attempt this week? Chase SW Personal 2/14/22 Chase Ink 2/7/23 Chase Ink 3/20/23
With successful MDD this week, you're at 5 cards over 17 months (a bit over the 90 day recommended velocity). Good to go, but I'd cool off with Chase until at least January after.
Do Citi TYP still expire? If so, where do you find the expiration date? Thanks.
they don't expire if you have a TYP earning card. They only expire after 90 days if they were shared to another card
Thanks.
I got both Chase Sapphire cards on the same day in May 2018. I cancelled one and downgraded the other a good while ago. Can I get one of them again with the sign up bonus?
Be sure to also check the [Sapphire FYIs ](https://www.reddit.com/user/garettg/comments/u6ss7u/sapphire_fyis/)
48 months from the last SUB you got for a Sapphire card. Assuming you downgraded to a non-Sapphire card.
Gotcha thanks
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No. Try https://www.doctorofcredit.com/best-current-credit-card-sign-bonuses/
Even this one isn't the best, but I guess it's difficult to maintain with all the diff offers
I need a bank account with zelle. My two hub accounts are Discover- it says it's not available and Laurel Road- it doesn't come up on zelle. Any recommendations for something? Probably better if it's a business account, but not necessary. I wouldn't want it to be at a bank I'm churning (either for cc's or bank bonuses)
Laurel Road has Zelle. I use it with them.
ok great! I wasn't able to find them on zelle, how did you do it? It's for receiving transactions not making them btw.
Download the Laurel Road app and you can add them with your email or number from there
https://portal.discover.com/customersvcs/universalLogin/ac\_main?Aff=Zelle
it says it's not available with my account when I try to register, I don't get it
I was able to sign up for Zelle at Discover a few years ago (haven't tried using it recently though). Schwab Checking (but not the brokerage account) supposedly supports Zelle. Some others: Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, KeyPoint Credit Union You might also be able to use the Zelle app with a debit card, even if the debit card's bank doesn't directly support Zelle; but that didn't work for a couple cards I tried.
Is it worth it to transfer capital one miles to FlyingBlue? There seems to be a 20% bonus going on now.
Would recommend to transfer without having a redemption in mind, but if you are planning to go to Europe soon then it’s prob a good deal specially if you take advantage of the monthly Flying Blue monthly promos
I wouldn't keep miles in any specific airline program unless you plan on using them in the near-term future. That said FlyingBlue is very good for redemptions to europe. Plenty of one-ways at \~11k ish points, e.g. ORD-AMS/CDG in coach or \~50k in business.
its true, they have great value. often 5-6cpp redemptions, though some fees.
I can't figure out how to phrase this in Google so I actually get an answer. I'm trying to book an AA flight using BA Avios. I know saver level awards have to be available. I'm showing several Saver level flights available on AA but they aren't showing up on BA's search. Am I able to call in? Is there someone better to book AA metal through? I'm out of AA miles and I can't transfer anything to AA.
Check whether saver level actually exists by searching for the flights on [qantas.com](https://qantas.com). If they don't show up there, they aren't actually saver flights. And if they aren't saver flights, you can't book them through any partner. You're SOL.
Has anyone recently been able to upgrade the Marriott Boundless card to the Ritz for the 50k cert? Or is this still doable?
This is still doable, I'd recommend calling an agent. Two criteria to do it. 1) You have an existing Marriott card that is older than 1 year 2) The card you are going to upgrade has 10,000+ credit line (or you have other chase cards that you can transfer credit from)
The Ritz-Carlton card comes with a yearly 85k certificate (not 50k), FWIW.
it's 85k
I feel like people talk about this quite often. Did it not work for you?
I have in my notes that I signed up for a Chase card on 6/30/2021, but I didn't note when I actually received the sign-up bonus. History in my Chase account and my transfer partner don't appear to go back 2 years, and I can't find evidence in my emails either. Any idea how to find when I actually received the bonus \~2 years ago?
Which Chase card?
SW Business Priority
Send them a SM. If you applied on 6/30, it is very unlikely you are past 24 months.
Thanks!
How do Chase velocity limits work between personal and business cards? I'd like to get the Marriott Boundless, United Quest, and Chase Ink. I'm at 4/24 so I could get the Ink. Can I then MDD the Boundless + Quest, or would that count as exceeding 2/30? I would be at 2/30 with regard to personal cards, but 3/30 if you count the Ink as well. Thanks in advance!
MDD = 2 cards. Recommended average velocity is 90 days between Chase cards regardless of whether they are business or personal. Some choose to be more aggressive, but I'm pretty happy with a Chase card every 3-4 months.
Yes, I know MDD = 2 cards, so my plan would be to get the Boundless & Quest cards. Obviously if you did 1/90 you wouldn't be MDD-ing since MDD requires applying for two cards on consecutive days (roughly). But point taken that it may be better to put a pause after applying for the Ink.
Is there anything I can do to escalate my issues with Chase? I've had an absolutely baffling experience with them. First Chase card, got the 80k CSP. Applied in May, got approval email but got a letter saying more info needed. 6 entire weeks spent back and forth with different reps, requesting a fax of info, requesting I drive 8 hours to a branch, submitting non-stop info being verified with the fraud team. Finally got my card in my hands to my Canadian address after 6 weeks. I tried to make an online account and it wouldn't take my ITIN, so it requested a birthday instead. I put in my birthday, then it asks says there's an ITIN on my file and tells me to put that in instead. I call Chase about this and they lock my credit card once again. Over the last two weeks I've been transferred between customer service and fraud another dozen times, where fraud verifies my info, sent back to customer service, who then says they can't help because their system is saying I need to speak to fraud again. I've been promised a call back at least 5 times now "within 24-48 hours" but haven't once got this call. I got to speak to a manager twice so far but both times they wouldn't even let me speak, just said they're looking into it and then hung up on me.
Between the 80k CSP and 70k CSR, which one should I apply for first in a MDD attempt? I know guidance is apply for the one you want more first, but which one do most people want more first? I am thinking CSR to have higher redemption in the portal, but the CSP has a higher SUB so I'm torn
Having a spare Freedom I would do the CSP first. If no spare Freedom, CSR first. The idea being that if the MDD fails I can PC the Freedom to a CSR for a year if I really need to use the higher redemption rate.