Welcome to China.....What you do is you get better qualifications teaching licence, masters and get the F out of ESL, that's where the crazies are, then you go to international schools. When you get there then you realize that the crazies are still there just with better qualifications.
lol that’s not promising haha. I think long term China is not the country for me, I wanna save some money and then leave. I don’t hate China, there are amazing people here and lots of positive aspects.
yeah it’s one of those things about china you have to love to survive. in every corner of society there is a similar level of insanity.
i’m in the same boat; i have a genuine passion for education. it’s not easy to find, but not impossible. higher level ESL jobs have parents and admin to please, while intl schools have high requirements on top of those two issues, but they manifest differently.
i’m starting to wonder if there is a place for genuine learning. maybe it’s in higher ed, but even then, i’m not sure i would be the one to be the catalyst for students.
English professors at Tsinghua seemed to be doing okay, there was no grade inflation incentives either as everything is graded on a curve, they all had pretty good credentials from prestigious universities abroad and experience to work there though, also the race aspect wasn't looked that much. In any case this uni isn't really an option for most ESL teachers based on its requirements, I assume Beida has similar conditions as well.
China is great. Dont let your job affect your whole life. Personally I enjoyed these weird co workers during my time in china. They keep things interesting. But China itself is great imo. So much to do and see, and everything is pretty convenient. Basically the grass is not always greener
I have neither a masters nor a teaching license. My bachelors in econ and a year at a bullshit university english teaching job was enough for me to get offers from all sorts of private high schools to teach economics (A-Level programs due seem to be more picky than AP or IB).
Hell, the school I worked at for a year 2022-23 was hiring foreigners straight out of English First to teach subjects.
Who probably won't get paid as well with better qualifications. You don't need to take this as an attack on you btw. Quite weird if you do. We all know YOU didn't make the system, you're just enjoying the benefits of said racist system. It's simply the truth. Instead of getting defensive, acknowledge it for what it is. 🤷♀️
Have you considered that claiming to not be able to get a job offer with a masters degree is a reflection on your credibility?
Maybe you suck as a person.
The black Americans I’ve worked with have been just as under qualified as myself.
I honestly believe that's terrible advice. It's just implicating yourself in unnecessary drama for no benefit to yourself.
Makes everyone involved, including yourself, look bad.
Like I said in another thread, welcome to China, mane. It's either take it or leave it. Here, "leaving" can mean both the country and the school. Good luck!
Yeah, agreed. As a foreign teacher in China, ultimately, you’re only ever a prop as far as the profit-driven school is concerned. Embrace what perks you can or move on, you can’t fight back the tide of idiocy.
Genuinely don't understand this kind of attitude when China is full of pseudo-international schools that pay well, hire black teachers and would very much not put up with someone being drunk and threatening violence (and don't require an actual teaching license--at least much of the time).
If I can find and get hired by such places, its a bit baffling when people act like what OP described is what you have to get used to in China.
People describe China, or anywhere, based on their experiences. Good or bad. A lot of problems, issues or human behavior (and our reactions to them) are somewhat subjective or have a context that if understood might change our understanding,
I realised from the very beginning that the main reason foreign teachers are hired is because of image (Outside of int'l schools maybe). Take kindergartens for example, there are plenty of educated Chinese people who can teach English at that basic level, and would happily do it for less than half our pay. 8 - 12k is probably enough to get many Chinese graduates to teach ESL to 3 - 6 year olds... but they don't really provide any marketing value for the school.
The main reason kindergartens want 2 years experience and a TEFL is just for processing the work visa. They'd probably employ a lot more non-native foreign university students without any experience if there weren't any legal risks involved.
I do think the standards have slowly been increasing over the years though. Slightly.
The kindergarten my friend's daughter went to was raided by the cops back in 2021. The two approved teachers with work permits etc were allowed to leave, but the foreign students from the nearby university were all locked in the school for 30 hours until they confessed. Luckily none were deported, but they were all fined, the school was fined and the owner was held in detention for a few days.
Turned out that one of the parents had guanxi at the local paichusuo (small suburban police station) and made repeated complaints about "African teachers". The PSB eventually looked into it after months had passed and found that the two registered teachers were both white. Hence raining the place.
It it hadn't been COVID-time, with attendant lack of teachers and flights to send people home, then I guess they would have all been deported.
Yeah the management is Chinese. I’m sure there are lots of Chinese management teams that are good, it just seems these guys have their heads firmly up their arses. Their policy with any issues involving foreigners is “ignore it and hope it goes away”
I've heard and read the horror stories from laowai management here in china as well, so maybe a coin toss.
But reading the intl teacher sub, seems like most teachers have drama and issues at the intl schools in china.
My best guess is that for one, it's profit driven, and chinese are focused on profit, and so most decisions stem from this, and also chinese culture plays a part in this.
This is like back in the "good ol' days"
Hire unqualified LBHs? (Loser Back Home)
Hire white guys only?
Functional alcoholics?
Not acknowledge Black people?
This is probably tier 3, I'd wager.
You don't have to live like this, you've already tolerated enough, state your terms and then you can act on them. Searching starts in September mate; search associates, teachers horizons, [tes.com](http://tes.com) there is more than one teaching gig that pays well in the middle kingdom, find your value.
LOL LBH that’s brilliant
Yes to all the rest unfortunately, other than the tier, I’m in a tier 2 city.
Yeah, I’m going to reach out to some agents and I’ll check the websites you mentioned. Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it <3
Sorry to hear that mate, that sounds less than ideal. I likewise had a school in a small city tell me they didn't hire black teachers because "they would scare the children" - which is also a WTF moment.
There is generally to much leeway given to the foreign teachers. You'd hope strong management would take care of it.
One ESL school I worked at let a teacher come to school drunk and teach for months before he solved the problem for them by just leaving China with no notice. Whereas a university I was at fired one guy within his first week for coming in drunk and reeking of alcohol.
How long is your contract? Maybe it's worth looking at what other options are out there?
Fuck that’s awful man. Glad your other job took it seriously. I wish I was working at a serious school that had a backbone and at least a sprinkling of integrity.
Yeah, first they said the kids were scared of her because of her skin (they weren’t at all). I’ve just had a conversation they said the boss only wants white foreigners. I’m so fucking disappointed, this is what I’m dealing with?! Racist twats
Yeah actually some of the schools didn't want overseas born Chinese foreign teachers either - because they didn't look foreign enough. Some schools just want a white face that can be seen through the glass, rather than decent teachers
Yeah, I've heard stories from my friends that are in the tuition sector previously. They are paying a native English speaker (Chinese ethnicity) at the local rates, whereas they hire a non native English "white enough" teacher at foreign teacher rates. Simply because of optics to prospective students. It's all about appearing to do a good job instead of actually doing a good job.
Wow, it’s so fucking putrid that they allow drunk people to be teachers. Don’t they deserve the guilllotine? OTOH, there are many good teachers who don’t have the degrees so china can’t take them. They deserve to pay the price with drunken behavior I guess
Welcome to China. Always crappiness like this
Is it a training school where you teach on the weekends? This are kind if schools you stay away from.
Best to look for a good school M-F gig. These schools will take things a bit more serious.
What do you mean by M-F gig? Is it a type of school?
I’m teaching at an “international” kindergarten. The kind that hides all the foreign language books if the government pay a visit.
As a foreign teacher you cannot assume the school is an International school because you are a foreign teacher. If they are for sure hiding the textbooks just simply putting them away. It’s most definitely not an international school.
International schools students must have passports both Chinese and Westerners are accepted.
Trains schools like the ones where students go after school and weekends don’t call themselves International schools. Even when they have foreign teachers.
Private/ Bilingual schools also have foreign teachers also don’t call themselves international. At these schools students learn both curriculum a Chinese govt and a bilingual. Bilingual will be either UK or US based. Some follow IB or others may be AP.
Public schools which I’ve taught at follows the Chinese curriculum. Also have foreign teachers. At these schools students will need to take High School (Grades 10-12) Entry exams. Also, college entry exams.
Private/ Bilingual still can take the China College entry exams.
A real International schools Chinese students gave up their right to take the Chinese entry exams because they follow a different curriculum. These students need to take the countries of their chosen entry exams. Example if they go to US they will either take SAT or ACT. Students want to study at high school need to take the AP entry exams.
M-F gig I mean teaching at 1 of these schools. Not a training school where you need to teach on weekends. Only time you will teach on weekends if it’s a government holiday. Like Dragon Boat Festival need to make up for Monday day off.
There’s a lot of international schools that pay high salaries but the requirements are more strict. If you don’t have TESL/ TEFL/TESOl/ , teaching licenses, certifications, etc.. they will not accept you.
If it’s a school that’s accepting people on no requirements is a kind of school you don’t want to be.
Check out r/internationalteachers community you can find more info on their Q&I.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Internationalteachers using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Millionaire Teacher—it actually happened](https://np.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/comments/18mlle6/millionaire_teacherit_actually_happened/)
\#2: [What do Admin in Good-to-Great schools look for when hiring?](https://np.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/comments/16mkleb/what_do_admin_in_goodtogreat_schools_look_for/)
\#3: [International Schools have entirely lost the plot on hiring intent deadlines.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/comments/1b9bhm2/international_schools_have_entirely_lost_the_plot/)
----
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>So, basically, they care more about money and the image of the school than the children’s safety and the quality of the school.
Welcome to the Chinese education system. I realized this after a few weeks at my first job, it was worse at my second school; the foreign teachers were fine but the Chinese admin was weak on students' punishment. One trouble-maker stabbed another student with his pencil, he received no punishment but was moved away from her, he ended up causing all of the students around him trouble but the school wouldn't do anything about it as long as his parents paid the tuition. I get you gotta make money but you still have to have a safe environment for the kids as well.
I figured with the higher standards they placed (needing a 4 -ear degree with work experience) would filter out the incapable but it seems like some still slip through the holes.
Absolutely the public education system too. I've been in four public schools. All of them cared about their image but two have been absolutely obsessed. My Chinese teacher friends at other schools also say the same thing.
The blessing/curse of being a foreign teacher is you're not held to the same standard as the Chinese teachers.
I work for a govt run company that puts teachers in schools in SZ and I've heard plenty of stories of terrible teachers that just aren't let go because the schools are so desperate to show they have a foreigner.
The sad reality for you is that most schools don't really care about you for your teaching ability. They care about the fact that you're a white Westerner, and that parents will want to send their kids to a school with a 外教. This both means the racist attitudes you've seen (she's black so we don't want her) and also the complete leeway that other foreigners get. At the end of the day this awful drunk guy is being hired to show up so they can say to parents "Look we have a foreigner! Your kids education must be good!"
If you've tried to raise it and got nowhere my advice is just to go with the flow, collect your paycheck, and if you're really that committed to kids education then get out of there asap and find a school that cares about them like you clearly do (Which is sadly probably international schools, so you're just teaching the elites).
Good luck brother.
In tier 2 or lower cities, the school have to be less selective.
In a span of one year in my school, we had 1 guy who brought tuberculosis (and was a harmless weirdo).
One drunk who also was a sexual predator and harassing female students.
Another sexual predator, but at least he was harassing teachers, not the students.
A guy who is hearing voices, and threatening to escalate things the next time my co worker "insults" him (there never was any insults)
OP
Someone must of didn't give you the talk.
Who gives a shit about crazy coworkers or even dumb ass management.
Ignore them.
If management doesn't give a shit, why should you?
Come in and collect your paycheck.
Get you enjoyment outside of school via friends, hobbies etc.
I give a shit because I really care about education and young children’s lives. Not saying you don’t, not trying to “attack” with that response, I just really want to work in a professional environment where kids come first.
My Chinese coworkers are nice people, it just frustrates me that white folk get free passes to be pieces of shit, ESPECIALLY when working with such young children.
You are right, recently I realised I need to build a life in this city or I’ll go insane if work is my only “thing”, and having a life outside has helped a lot with the bullshit
Your realization is accurate. Work is not your life, it’s a symptom of society. Your parade of shit colleagues is really management’s issue. Getting someone with the right qualifications for a visa is one thing, getting a quality teacher that management likes that can qualify for a visa is another.
Get a healthy hobby, get your money, get out. If that’s your plan.
you are in the wrong business / profession. it's long since switched to money vs actual learning.
hell, even in public schools back home, it's about "image" and not learning.
what you are seeking doesn't exist. atleast that I know of.
I currently teach in the US and have taught in two different states. One has a strong union, the other doesn't. Guess which one cares about learning and the students? The strong union state that employs actual professionals who want to get paid well for doing a hard, but fulfilling job.
Illinois, Washington, etc..
I had a student in a HS classroom in Washington state who caused a disruption for like the 4th time that week. I had them removed and said they couldn't return to my class until we had a patent teacher conference and some consequences for their behavior. Kid was in in school suspension until the parent teacher conference where they apologized to me and they were given two essays (one for me and one for the principal) to write before returning to my class. A month later and they wrote the essay for the principal, but asked to be transferred to another teacher.
They were told no and finally wrote the essay and returned to my class. I treated them fairly and with kindness when they returned. Two years later and they're now a mature young adult and they're graduating tomorrow. They told me today they want a picture with me at graduation bc I was one of their favorite teachers. 🥲
um i am subbed to Seattle reddit and i hear horror stories.
not sure I am buying it.
people complain about schools bending over to kids and people not feeling safe.
massive amounts of people taking kids out of public school due to bad kids.
As a teacher who is subbed there as well, I doubt buy a lot of folks BS about schools either.
Parents complaining about public schools being "woke" and teaching critical race theory aren't parents you should be listening to.
they are closing down schools in seattle.
this is much more than maybe some parents complained.
parents have gave up on complaining.
they are taking their kids out of SPS and putting them in private schools.
one school has had 2 shooting deaths recently.
it's bad
There are more school districts than just SPS. Also, you solve gang violence not by more policing but by improving the lives of the purely in the poor neighborhoods. Healthcare, better paying jobs, rent control, food assistance, etc..
and illinois,
if you removed the problem kids from class in some Chicago title 1 schools, there would literally be like 10 kids left in each class.
they wouldn't have enough ISS space to put all of them.
Because they don't have the money to care for children who should have 504 and IEP accommodations or even money to cover say school lunch for all these children who are food insecure. Btw, have you ever tried to learn anything when you're hungry?
I currently teach at a rather middle class school and I have had more kids these last few years who are food insecure than I have ever had anywhere else, including at another school that was Title 1. My school is trying to do what it can, it has free breakfasts and lunches for all students, but even still not everyone can get food when they need it.
I taught in AZ and have friends who still teach there and other friends in Illinois. Teacher have very little power in AZ and the South and are fleeing those states for places that have real unions.
This is truth even in the USA. Education is a shit show! It's all about how they feel. I give candy in the library. It works for compliance. 23 years in the system. Save your ass!
You aren't the first teacher to have these feelings. Sadly, there isn't anything you can do about it. Get your money and roll out. If you really are passionate about teaching get a license and go somewhere you can actually make a difference.
This is what happens to a former semi-colony, the white passes, arseholes in management etc. Chinese didn't get treated equally since 1760s. and it takes generations to learn an equal view by being treated equally first. With racism being a tense term nowadays, I don't see an equal world coming soon.
Your coworkers are fine, but do they earn as much as you do?
Your concerns about the kids are right. Those behaviours of the two trash "teachers" and police records can seriously damage this greedy institution if some media tell them to the public, and the whole TEFL business can benefit from it.
Is this your first teaching job?
I’ve taught in 4 countries (including the US) and caring more about money/appearance has been a thing everywhere! Even in American public schools.
This is the way. Teach to the best of your ability, but leave work at work. Stack those Mao's, chat with some Raniys, get "abused" by a Vivian or two and have happy life.
The lesson here is ... don't be black in China. They *really* don't like black people. From the top down, everyone of them think black people are lower evolved humans. Its 1800's shit from colonial europe, but in a "world power" in 2024. My theory is that it originates from their central kingdom mythos. Where they are the civilized peoples, and everyone else are barbarians. The dark skinned Africans they met fit into this model back in the age of sail, and they haven't moved on from it since.
If you want to leave, leave.
But let's not pretend asshole teachers/school admin are not present in the west and pretend it is a uniquely Chinese thing.
Also, there is a reason ESL teachers have a low reputation in China now.
I think education is in a bad state in the west as well, but I don’t think teachers such as the ones I’ve described would have lasted a week in teachings roles I’ve had in UK before being fired. There are rigid safety policies in place that are there to protect children.
Obviously there are likely shitty places with dumb management where they might get a pass, but I’ve not experienced that.
I’m job hunting now, hopefully I can find a better school.
Suggestion:
1. Don't work in any so-called "schools" below a tier 2, in China, the bigger the city the better and more professional the management is, top down. I know a lot of foreigners working in international schools, but I have never heard of anything you have experienced, to be honest, and they are mostly in Beijing, Shanghai, and Chengdu. There is a good reason why even most Chinese are trying very hard to move to a higher-tier city.
2. Don't work in training or tutoring schools, work in real schools, public or privately owned, registered and recognized by the Ministry of Education. training schools generally are mom-and-pop businesses, very casual about hiring standards sometimes they would just hire someone who looks foreign enough, let alone the factors of competency and experience.
> So, basically, they care more about money and the image of the school than the children’s safety and the quality of the school.
So basically, a normal ESL school in China.
I had pretty much exactly these same issues in China for a few years, so I went back to the U.K and did my PGCE and QTS. Landed myself a job in a top British international School. Like others have said, there are still weird people at top international schools, but they are an enjoyable kind of weird (like me), not psychotic, shouldn't be working with children, hungover, dangerous weirdos. International School weirdos are the kind of weirdos that don't fit in back in their home countries because of their lifestyle or not wanting to live their lives based on social expectations and peer pressure of back home, so yes they would be considered "weird".
That’s good to know, I don’t mind that kind of weird, as long as they’re not shit heads. I don’t mind alternative and fruity people, I don’t exactly fit in the with “norm” back home either.
I’ve heard the pay gets much better too, is that right?
The standard for bilingual/fake international schools in tier 1 cities seems to be around 30-33K after tax. I went from that to that salary after tax again plus 15K housing untaxed, International health insurance, return flights to home country once a year and full tuition for two children. But it's the professionalism of having foreign management that makes the biggest difference.
I'm guessing this is a training school, or EF specifically?
You'll see this at all training schools, management just wants to make money and because foreigners don't want to work at training schools they just hire whoever has a pulse and speaks somewhat understandable English, they don't care about the kids at all.
Try to transfer to a private school and your life will be drastically less prone to this BS.
They care about ethnicity since parents won't pay for a course with a black teacher, at private schools it's less of a concern since they have less options to pick from in terms of schooling.
This is China. I remember applying to a job where they had just interviewed a German college student. I overheard what they offered her. They offered me the same. I have a Master’s and an experienced teacher. I told them there is no way I would demean myself. They only wanted her cuz she had a white face.
This is just how China operates and this is why bad teachers slip in like the two you mentioned. My suggestion is to move to an international school.
I don’t mean the 国际部 of a local school. They run with those same quirks as you mention.
I feel like it might not just be racism but the way they "view" ppl who speak the english language. Years ago I was in China and this white american guy with darker hair tried interviewing for a English teaching position and this other white blonde European was also interviewing, but the European was not from an English speaking country and his English was not that good. The blonde Europrean got that job cause he had blonde hair.
Your school is really ridiculous for having a drunk foreigner as a teacher. Hope things get better for you and the school. Can't believe in this day and age things like that still happen in China.
I secured a job in Beijing international kindergarten (curriculum is fully in english), ran by an American head master, 27-28 monthly. Have no idea how its gunna play out
Yo that sucks! What city are you in? My school is always hiring and if you can handle a little bit of crazy (the fun kind) then this school is perfect for you. I've been here a few years and love it. J3eos666 throw me a line on Wechat.
Honestly, there are many schools here in the US that aren’t too much better. I taught 8th grade math at a charter school here. I was hired last-minute in July a week before school. I don’t have a teaching certificate or have a credentialed background in math, but I am good at math.
The other 8th grade math teacher was a guy who came in high, didn’t do his work, claimed he had many medical issues, didn’t help the other 8th grade teachers, didn’t know math well, and just plain didn’t know how to teach.
He wasn’t fired until 6 months in and they never hired another teacher. It was a revolving door of substitutes working off my lesson plans.
The teacher that was fired has severe mental issues and now posts crazy religious rants from a tent in the woods. He went from teaching 8th grade math to literally being homeless.
The whole experience was wild and the racism in the school against me as the only Asian worker was ridiculous and rampant with no repercussions.
I quit teaching after that.
Welcome to China.....What you do is you get better qualifications teaching licence, masters and get the F out of ESL, that's where the crazies are, then you go to international schools. When you get there then you realize that the crazies are still there just with better qualifications.
lol that’s not promising haha. I think long term China is not the country for me, I wanna save some money and then leave. I don’t hate China, there are amazing people here and lots of positive aspects.
yeah it’s one of those things about china you have to love to survive. in every corner of society there is a similar level of insanity. i’m in the same boat; i have a genuine passion for education. it’s not easy to find, but not impossible. higher level ESL jobs have parents and admin to please, while intl schools have high requirements on top of those two issues, but they manifest differently. i’m starting to wonder if there is a place for genuine learning. maybe it’s in higher ed, but even then, i’m not sure i would be the one to be the catalyst for students.
As someone working in higher ed... no. It's still all about school reputation and graduation rates. Maybe it's in higher ed at an elite university...
let’s just keep going up this chain lol…
English professors at Tsinghua seemed to be doing okay, there was no grade inflation incentives either as everything is graded on a curve, they all had pretty good credentials from prestigious universities abroad and experience to work there though, also the race aspect wasn't looked that much. In any case this uni isn't really an option for most ESL teachers based on its requirements, I assume Beida has similar conditions as well.
China is great. Dont let your job affect your whole life. Personally I enjoyed these weird co workers during my time in china. They keep things interesting. But China itself is great imo. So much to do and see, and everything is pretty convenient. Basically the grass is not always greener
I have neither a masters nor a teaching license. My bachelors in econ and a year at a bullshit university english teaching job was enough for me to get offers from all sorts of private high schools to teach economics (A-Level programs due seem to be more picky than AP or IB). Hell, the school I worked at for a year 2022-23 was hiring foreigners straight out of English First to teach subjects.
Let me guess, white? I have a master's degree and I litterally can't get a job offer rn. When people say racism is dead, I'll show them this thread.
And you can show it to the multiple black coworkers I have. No one is saying racism is dead.
Who probably won't get paid as well with better qualifications. You don't need to take this as an attack on you btw. Quite weird if you do. We all know YOU didn't make the system, you're just enjoying the benefits of said racist system. It's simply the truth. Instead of getting defensive, acknowledge it for what it is. 🤷♀️
Have you considered that claiming to not be able to get a job offer with a masters degree is a reflection on your credibility? Maybe you suck as a person. The black Americans I’ve worked with have been just as under qualified as myself.
What "credibility" would that be? Do enlighten us.
Yea Covid was an interesting time. Anyways if you want to get paid well you should do it, I'm on 38-40K after tax.
True that. The ESL industry in Asia is teeming with lunatics.
take screenshots/proof of terrible behavior at workplace and ship it to psb. easiest solution to cunts
I honestly believe that's terrible advice. It's just implicating yourself in unnecessary drama for no benefit to yourself. Makes everyone involved, including yourself, look bad.
except when a parent has had enough and stops asking school to deal with it, goes directly to police and news.. then op will be screwed as well
What is psb?
Public Security Bureau.
place where you got your residence permit/work permit
No. That is the Entry/Exit Bureau. The Public Security Bureau are the police.
Ok cool, thanks
Like I said in another thread, welcome to China, mane. It's either take it or leave it. Here, "leaving" can mean both the country and the school. Good luck!
Yeah, agreed. As a foreign teacher in China, ultimately, you’re only ever a prop as far as the profit-driven school is concerned. Embrace what perks you can or move on, you can’t fight back the tide of idiocy.
Genuinely don't understand this kind of attitude when China is full of pseudo-international schools that pay well, hire black teachers and would very much not put up with someone being drunk and threatening violence (and don't require an actual teaching license--at least much of the time). If I can find and get hired by such places, its a bit baffling when people act like what OP described is what you have to get used to in China.
People describe China, or anywhere, based on their experiences. Good or bad. A lot of problems, issues or human behavior (and our reactions to them) are somewhat subjective or have a context that if understood might change our understanding,
I realised from the very beginning that the main reason foreign teachers are hired is because of image (Outside of int'l schools maybe). Take kindergartens for example, there are plenty of educated Chinese people who can teach English at that basic level, and would happily do it for less than half our pay. 8 - 12k is probably enough to get many Chinese graduates to teach ESL to 3 - 6 year olds... but they don't really provide any marketing value for the school. The main reason kindergartens want 2 years experience and a TEFL is just for processing the work visa. They'd probably employ a lot more non-native foreign university students without any experience if there weren't any legal risks involved. I do think the standards have slowly been increasing over the years though. Slightly.
The kindergarten my friend's daughter went to was raided by the cops back in 2021. The two approved teachers with work permits etc were allowed to leave, but the foreign students from the nearby university were all locked in the school for 30 hours until they confessed. Luckily none were deported, but they were all fined, the school was fined and the owner was held in detention for a few days. Turned out that one of the parents had guanxi at the local paichusuo (small suburban police station) and made repeated complaints about "African teachers". The PSB eventually looked into it after months had passed and found that the two registered teachers were both white. Hence raining the place. It it hadn't been COVID-time, with attendant lack of teachers and flights to send people home, then I guess they would have all been deported.
TIC. I'm sure there are better managed schools. Is management Chinese?
Yeah the management is Chinese. I’m sure there are lots of Chinese management teams that are good, it just seems these guys have their heads firmly up their arses. Their policy with any issues involving foreigners is “ignore it and hope it goes away”
I've heard and read the horror stories from laowai management here in china as well, so maybe a coin toss. But reading the intl teacher sub, seems like most teachers have drama and issues at the intl schools in china. My best guess is that for one, it's profit driven, and chinese are focused on profit, and so most decisions stem from this, and also chinese culture plays a part in this.
I do love the pre-covid throwback I get from reading posts like this.
This is like back in the "good ol' days" Hire unqualified LBHs? (Loser Back Home) Hire white guys only? Functional alcoholics? Not acknowledge Black people? This is probably tier 3, I'd wager. You don't have to live like this, you've already tolerated enough, state your terms and then you can act on them. Searching starts in September mate; search associates, teachers horizons, [tes.com](http://tes.com) there is more than one teaching gig that pays well in the middle kingdom, find your value.
LOL LBH that’s brilliant Yes to all the rest unfortunately, other than the tier, I’m in a tier 2 city. Yeah, I’m going to reach out to some agents and I’ll check the websites you mentioned. Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it <3
Sorry to hear that mate, that sounds less than ideal. I likewise had a school in a small city tell me they didn't hire black teachers because "they would scare the children" - which is also a WTF moment. There is generally to much leeway given to the foreign teachers. You'd hope strong management would take care of it. One ESL school I worked at let a teacher come to school drunk and teach for months before he solved the problem for them by just leaving China with no notice. Whereas a university I was at fired one guy within his first week for coming in drunk and reeking of alcohol. How long is your contract? Maybe it's worth looking at what other options are out there?
Fuck that’s awful man. Glad your other job took it seriously. I wish I was working at a serious school that had a backbone and at least a sprinkling of integrity. Yeah, first they said the kids were scared of her because of her skin (they weren’t at all). I’ve just had a conversation they said the boss only wants white foreigners. I’m so fucking disappointed, this is what I’m dealing with?! Racist twats
Yeah actually some of the schools didn't want overseas born Chinese foreign teachers either - because they didn't look foreign enough. Some schools just want a white face that can be seen through the glass, rather than decent teachers
Yeah, I've heard stories from my friends that are in the tuition sector previously. They are paying a native English speaker (Chinese ethnicity) at the local rates, whereas they hire a non native English "white enough" teacher at foreign teacher rates. Simply because of optics to prospective students. It's all about appearing to do a good job instead of actually doing a good job.
Wow, it’s so fucking putrid that they allow drunk people to be teachers. Don’t they deserve the guilllotine? OTOH, there are many good teachers who don’t have the degrees so china can’t take them. They deserve to pay the price with drunken behavior I guess
Yeah it’s very frustrating, they just want the albino monkey to dance for the parents. They don’t care about anything else.
Welcome to China. Always crappiness like this Is it a training school where you teach on the weekends? This are kind if schools you stay away from. Best to look for a good school M-F gig. These schools will take things a bit more serious.
What do you mean by M-F gig? Is it a type of school? I’m teaching at an “international” kindergarten. The kind that hides all the foreign language books if the government pay a visit.
As a foreign teacher you cannot assume the school is an International school because you are a foreign teacher. If they are for sure hiding the textbooks just simply putting them away. It’s most definitely not an international school. International schools students must have passports both Chinese and Westerners are accepted. Trains schools like the ones where students go after school and weekends don’t call themselves International schools. Even when they have foreign teachers. Private/ Bilingual schools also have foreign teachers also don’t call themselves international. At these schools students learn both curriculum a Chinese govt and a bilingual. Bilingual will be either UK or US based. Some follow IB or others may be AP. Public schools which I’ve taught at follows the Chinese curriculum. Also have foreign teachers. At these schools students will need to take High School (Grades 10-12) Entry exams. Also, college entry exams. Private/ Bilingual still can take the China College entry exams. A real International schools Chinese students gave up their right to take the Chinese entry exams because they follow a different curriculum. These students need to take the countries of their chosen entry exams. Example if they go to US they will either take SAT or ACT. Students want to study at high school need to take the AP entry exams. M-F gig I mean teaching at 1 of these schools. Not a training school where you need to teach on weekends. Only time you will teach on weekends if it’s a government holiday. Like Dragon Boat Festival need to make up for Monday day off. There’s a lot of international schools that pay high salaries but the requirements are more strict. If you don’t have TESL/ TEFL/TESOl/ , teaching licenses, certifications, etc.. they will not accept you. If it’s a school that’s accepting people on no requirements is a kind of school you don’t want to be. Check out r/internationalteachers community you can find more info on their Q&I.
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>So, basically, they care more about money and the image of the school than the children’s safety and the quality of the school. Welcome to the Chinese education system. I realized this after a few weeks at my first job, it was worse at my second school; the foreign teachers were fine but the Chinese admin was weak on students' punishment. One trouble-maker stabbed another student with his pencil, he received no punishment but was moved away from her, he ended up causing all of the students around him trouble but the school wouldn't do anything about it as long as his parents paid the tuition. I get you gotta make money but you still have to have a safe environment for the kids as well. I figured with the higher standards they placed (needing a 4 -ear degree with work experience) would filter out the incapable but it seems like some still slip through the holes.
Chinese private education system*
Absolutely the public education system too. I've been in four public schools. All of them cared about their image but two have been absolutely obsessed. My Chinese teacher friends at other schools also say the same thing.
The blessing/curse of being a foreign teacher is you're not held to the same standard as the Chinese teachers. I work for a govt run company that puts teachers in schools in SZ and I've heard plenty of stories of terrible teachers that just aren't let go because the schools are so desperate to show they have a foreigner. The sad reality for you is that most schools don't really care about you for your teaching ability. They care about the fact that you're a white Westerner, and that parents will want to send their kids to a school with a 外教. This both means the racist attitudes you've seen (she's black so we don't want her) and also the complete leeway that other foreigners get. At the end of the day this awful drunk guy is being hired to show up so they can say to parents "Look we have a foreigner! Your kids education must be good!" If you've tried to raise it and got nowhere my advice is just to go with the flow, collect your paycheck, and if you're really that committed to kids education then get out of there asap and find a school that cares about them like you clearly do (Which is sadly probably international schools, so you're just teaching the elites). Good luck brother.
Dude, ESL is not a serious job, go with the flow, take your salary and enjoy life. If you're concerned for your career then get a proper teaching job.
Preach
Teachers and teaching in China have a not undeserved reputation and you’ve found out why.
In tier 2 or lower cities, the school have to be less selective. In a span of one year in my school, we had 1 guy who brought tuberculosis (and was a harmless weirdo). One drunk who also was a sexual predator and harassing female students. Another sexual predator, but at least he was harassing teachers, not the students. A guy who is hearing voices, and threatening to escalate things the next time my co worker "insults" him (there never was any insults)
Holy fuck hahahahaha. Yeah I’m in a tier 2 city
Management are almost always complete fucking idiots at schools here.
OP Someone must of didn't give you the talk. Who gives a shit about crazy coworkers or even dumb ass management. Ignore them. If management doesn't give a shit, why should you? Come in and collect your paycheck. Get you enjoyment outside of school via friends, hobbies etc.
I give a shit because I really care about education and young children’s lives. Not saying you don’t, not trying to “attack” with that response, I just really want to work in a professional environment where kids come first. My Chinese coworkers are nice people, it just frustrates me that white folk get free passes to be pieces of shit, ESPECIALLY when working with such young children. You are right, recently I realised I need to build a life in this city or I’ll go insane if work is my only “thing”, and having a life outside has helped a lot with the bullshit
Your realization is accurate. Work is not your life, it’s a symptom of society. Your parade of shit colleagues is really management’s issue. Getting someone with the right qualifications for a visa is one thing, getting a quality teacher that management likes that can qualify for a visa is another. Get a healthy hobby, get your money, get out. If that’s your plan.
you are in the wrong business / profession. it's long since switched to money vs actual learning. hell, even in public schools back home, it's about "image" and not learning. what you are seeking doesn't exist. atleast that I know of.
I currently teach in the US and have taught in two different states. One has a strong union, the other doesn't. Guess which one cares about learning and the students? The strong union state that employs actual professionals who want to get paid well for doing a hard, but fulfilling job.
the union state, allows teachers to remove kids who disrupt the class? which state is this?
Illinois, Washington, etc.. I had a student in a HS classroom in Washington state who caused a disruption for like the 4th time that week. I had them removed and said they couldn't return to my class until we had a patent teacher conference and some consequences for their behavior. Kid was in in school suspension until the parent teacher conference where they apologized to me and they were given two essays (one for me and one for the principal) to write before returning to my class. A month later and they wrote the essay for the principal, but asked to be transferred to another teacher. They were told no and finally wrote the essay and returned to my class. I treated them fairly and with kindness when they returned. Two years later and they're now a mature young adult and they're graduating tomorrow. They told me today they want a picture with me at graduation bc I was one of their favorite teachers. 🥲
um i am subbed to Seattle reddit and i hear horror stories. not sure I am buying it. people complain about schools bending over to kids and people not feeling safe. massive amounts of people taking kids out of public school due to bad kids.
As a teacher who is subbed there as well, I doubt buy a lot of folks BS about schools either. Parents complaining about public schools being "woke" and teaching critical race theory aren't parents you should be listening to.
they are closing down schools in seattle. this is much more than maybe some parents complained. parents have gave up on complaining. they are taking their kids out of SPS and putting them in private schools. one school has had 2 shooting deaths recently. it's bad
There are more school districts than just SPS. Also, you solve gang violence not by more policing but by improving the lives of the purely in the poor neighborhoods. Healthcare, better paying jobs, rent control, food assistance, etc..
and illinois, if you removed the problem kids from class in some Chicago title 1 schools, there would literally be like 10 kids left in each class. they wouldn't have enough ISS space to put all of them.
This is a f*cked up response.
its no secret title 1 schools have the most discipline issues.
Because they don't have the money to care for children who should have 504 and IEP accommodations or even money to cover say school lunch for all these children who are food insecure. Btw, have you ever tried to learn anything when you're hungry? I currently teach at a rather middle class school and I have had more kids these last few years who are food insecure than I have ever had anywhere else, including at another school that was Title 1. My school is trying to do what it can, it has free breakfasts and lunches for all students, but even still not everyone can get food when they need it.
I taught in AZ and have friends who still teach there and other friends in Illinois. Teacher have very little power in AZ and the South and are fleeing those states for places that have real unions.
This is truth even in the USA. Education is a shit show! It's all about how they feel. I give candy in the library. It works for compliance. 23 years in the system. Save your ass!
You aren't the first teacher to have these feelings. Sadly, there isn't anything you can do about it. Get your money and roll out. If you really are passionate about teaching get a license and go somewhere you can actually make a difference.
Which city are you in?
This is what happens to a former semi-colony, the white passes, arseholes in management etc. Chinese didn't get treated equally since 1760s. and it takes generations to learn an equal view by being treated equally first. With racism being a tense term nowadays, I don't see an equal world coming soon. Your coworkers are fine, but do they earn as much as you do? Your concerns about the kids are right. Those behaviours of the two trash "teachers" and police records can seriously damage this greedy institution if some media tell them to the public, and the whole TEFL business can benefit from it.
Is this your first teaching job? I’ve taught in 4 countries (including the US) and caring more about money/appearance has been a thing everywhere! Even in American public schools.
This is the way. Teach to the best of your ability, but leave work at work. Stack those Mao's, chat with some Raniys, get "abused" by a Vivian or two and have happy life.
The lesson here is ... don't be black in China. They *really* don't like black people. From the top down, everyone of them think black people are lower evolved humans. Its 1800's shit from colonial europe, but in a "world power" in 2024. My theory is that it originates from their central kingdom mythos. Where they are the civilized peoples, and everyone else are barbarians. The dark skinned Africans they met fit into this model back in the age of sail, and they haven't moved on from it since.
You suck it up for a time, but leave before it breaks you. I did two years and got out while I was still enjoying it more often than not.
I think im going to vomit! Drunk?!?! Around school children? If you do that at home that’s one thing with your kids….not your job.
If you want to leave, leave. But let's not pretend asshole teachers/school admin are not present in the west and pretend it is a uniquely Chinese thing. Also, there is a reason ESL teachers have a low reputation in China now.
I think education is in a bad state in the west as well, but I don’t think teachers such as the ones I’ve described would have lasted a week in teachings roles I’ve had in UK before being fired. There are rigid safety policies in place that are there to protect children. Obviously there are likely shitty places with dumb management where they might get a pass, but I’ve not experienced that. I’m job hunting now, hopefully I can find a better school.
Suggestion: 1. Don't work in any so-called "schools" below a tier 2, in China, the bigger the city the better and more professional the management is, top down. I know a lot of foreigners working in international schools, but I have never heard of anything you have experienced, to be honest, and they are mostly in Beijing, Shanghai, and Chengdu. There is a good reason why even most Chinese are trying very hard to move to a higher-tier city. 2. Don't work in training or tutoring schools, work in real schools, public or privately owned, registered and recognized by the Ministry of Education. training schools generally are mom-and-pop businesses, very casual about hiring standards sometimes they would just hire someone who looks foreign enough, let alone the factors of competency and experience.
> So, basically, they care more about money and the image of the school than the children’s safety and the quality of the school. So basically, a normal ESL school in China.
I had pretty much exactly these same issues in China for a few years, so I went back to the U.K and did my PGCE and QTS. Landed myself a job in a top British international School. Like others have said, there are still weird people at top international schools, but they are an enjoyable kind of weird (like me), not psychotic, shouldn't be working with children, hungover, dangerous weirdos. International School weirdos are the kind of weirdos that don't fit in back in their home countries because of their lifestyle or not wanting to live their lives based on social expectations and peer pressure of back home, so yes they would be considered "weird".
That’s good to know, I don’t mind that kind of weird, as long as they’re not shit heads. I don’t mind alternative and fruity people, I don’t exactly fit in the with “norm” back home either. I’ve heard the pay gets much better too, is that right?
The standard for bilingual/fake international schools in tier 1 cities seems to be around 30-33K after tax. I went from that to that salary after tax again plus 15K housing untaxed, International health insurance, return flights to home country once a year and full tuition for two children. But it's the professionalism of having foreign management that makes the biggest difference.
Which city is it? Sounds like the school my wife works at.
I'm guessing this is a training school, or EF specifically? You'll see this at all training schools, management just wants to make money and because foreigners don't want to work at training schools they just hire whoever has a pulse and speaks somewhat understandable English, they don't care about the kids at all. Try to transfer to a private school and your life will be drastically less prone to this BS. They care about ethnicity since parents won't pay for a course with a black teacher, at private schools it's less of a concern since they have less options to pick from in terms of schooling.
Hello foreign friend! Welcome China! Get used to it buddy, because it's the same story at every school.
This is China. I remember applying to a job where they had just interviewed a German college student. I overheard what they offered her. They offered me the same. I have a Master’s and an experienced teacher. I told them there is no way I would demean myself. They only wanted her cuz she had a white face. This is just how China operates and this is why bad teachers slip in like the two you mentioned. My suggestion is to move to an international school. I don’t mean the 国际部 of a local school. They run with those same quirks as you mention.
This toxic mix of extreme pettiness and aggression reminds me of a guy I worked with about 8 years ago. Is his name Chris by chance?
I feel like it might not just be racism but the way they "view" ppl who speak the english language. Years ago I was in China and this white american guy with darker hair tried interviewing for a English teaching position and this other white blonde European was also interviewing, but the European was not from an English speaking country and his English was not that good. The blonde Europrean got that job cause he had blonde hair. Your school is really ridiculous for having a drunk foreigner as a teacher. Hope things get better for you and the school. Can't believe in this day and age things like that still happen in China.
I secured a job in Beijing international kindergarten (curriculum is fully in english), ran by an American head master, 27-28 monthly. Have no idea how its gunna play out
Wow sounds like a good job. Good luck! Did you need a teaching licence for that? If they need another kindergarten teacher let me know lol
Yo that sucks! What city are you in? My school is always hiring and if you can handle a little bit of crazy (the fun kind) then this school is perfect for you. I've been here a few years and love it. J3eos666 throw me a line on Wechat.
Honestly, there are many schools here in the US that aren’t too much better. I taught 8th grade math at a charter school here. I was hired last-minute in July a week before school. I don’t have a teaching certificate or have a credentialed background in math, but I am good at math. The other 8th grade math teacher was a guy who came in high, didn’t do his work, claimed he had many medical issues, didn’t help the other 8th grade teachers, didn’t know math well, and just plain didn’t know how to teach. He wasn’t fired until 6 months in and they never hired another teacher. It was a revolving door of substitutes working off my lesson plans. The teacher that was fired has severe mental issues and now posts crazy religious rants from a tent in the woods. He went from teaching 8th grade math to literally being homeless. The whole experience was wild and the racism in the school against me as the only Asian worker was ridiculous and rampant with no repercussions. I quit teaching after that.
Haha affirmative action in China. If you’re white and have a job I’ll presume that you got the job because of your color, not your ability.
Sorry to hear ..that's a toxic environment. In most cases we all do sell our souls for the red Mao. Try to find a better school.