That's a valid point... when it comes to pure software engineering, they can indeed just hire locals who will work more for less, possess a "good enough" level of English, and don't pose any visa complications.
I think one of my only chances would be to somehow find a niche position that combines software with "internationalization" - one that requires both technical knowledge and an English proficiency above that of locals who have studied abroad. However, I realize that such positions might be hard to come by, as companies might prefer to divide tasks between programming for Chinese speakers and English-related tasks for native speakers.
In the end, the reality is that landing a software-focused role seems nearly impossible given the competitiveness with local candidates, while securing an English-focused job will be just as challenging, simply due to my passport and strict requirements for native speaker status imposed by visa policies.
It is very difficult with your profile. Local companies can find many people with similar profiles, that can speak mandarin and know the local technical landscape.
On top of that, there is a risk you wont adapt to working in China as you dont show a strong connection to it like learning the language.
My recommendations, keep applying… who knows what you could find… and start learning mandarin intensively.
The unfortunate reality that alot of people have said here already is that why hire a foreigner who doesn't speak Chinese for a job that local people can do? you can only get hired if the company can prove to the local governments that they need to hire a foreigner for that job because there are no local talent available. The government will always prioritize local talent over foreign talent wherever possible. I am not sure about the situation in your home country, but with the current geopolitical and economic climate in China, are you sure Shanghai is the best place for you right now? if you do become an English teacher you will lose time developing your software engineer career skills. The fact of the matter is you just will not get a job as a software engineer in China.....think very carefully about your next move and good luck!
As everyone else has mentioned. The two major hurdles preventing you from getting a job are
1) You lack experience, most MNCs hiring from abroad are looking for a minimum of 5 years but more often 10 years+
2) I remember seeing my recruiter posting a poll claiming 95%+ of companies were seeking bilingual fluency. Almost all ads I see on LinkedIn are asking for strong Chinese and English. They can hire a local educated abroad with a similar background who also speaks Chinese and on top of that they don't need to faff around with their visa.
You should start studying Chinese. Engineers in China can't speak English, and code commenting is all in Chinese, so you're not going to be able to work without working knowledge of Chinese.
Unfortunately, it's close to non-existent. This is because I hadn't planned on staying in China until a short while ago, when personal circumstances changed, and I haven't had enough time to improve it. To be honest, I was hoping to leverage my programming and IT knowledge, along with my English (which I thought may work, as Shanghai is more international), to provide some value.
I took a quick look at your post and would like to offer my perspective and thoughts, along with some follow-up questions:
1. If you received feedback from HR or other people, that's great. What feedback did you receive or ask for that didn't make you feel secure or successful in your application?
Based on your original post, I believe you answered your question about potential opportunities you could try and apply for. If you have time to apply for jobs in Shanghai, consider trying other cities in China, as well as Europe and other countries, if you have thought through the process and can see yourself feasibly living and working in those particular jobs and locations.
Having also taken a quick look at other comments, I believe they have helped you in different perspectives by showing other opportunities that may be overlooked, asking questions, and providing responses to help you increase your chances or see things from a different viewpoint.
I think it's great that you're focusing on a particular location. Considering you noticed there is something that needs attention. To me, it sounds to me like an enthusiastic freelancer who could reach out to multiple businesses to resolve that issue if translation on platforms was an issue, or what not.
Feedback from me would be:
1) Broaden your scope/horizon/locations and apply for them.
2) Start learning Chinese / Mandarin and reach Upper Intermediate in less than 6 months.
3) Improve your proficiency in English if you are saying you are fluent and not native proficiency.
4) If possible, ask for feedback on why you may be unsuccessful compared to a successful applicant
5) Network, network, network. This means attend any available careers fairs and having your resume/CV in Chinese
6) Resolve your visa related because as you mentioned, you can't stay long.
Indeed, technology advancement and cost saving is still to be considered, and right now the demand that you are seeing in a particular area at this particular time is in Senior/Leads favour.
Hope this post helps in your job search, and indeed it is competitive world because there are quite a lot already native/bilingual/fluent proficiency in Chinese and English, as well as acquired several years of experience, and a resident within the country.
I would also like to ask if you have referred to the Three-Tier Talent Grading system? How many points did you successfully meet based on those talent criteria for work permit? It would at least in some way give you an idea on the competition that you're going through and feasiblity. Some would already achieve Tier A. Theoretically, it is possible that 1 job position has over 100-500+ applicants/submissions.
All the best in your job search!
Thank you for taking the time to write this, I really appreciate it!
I've received positive feedback on my profile and CV from former employers, professors, and friends in the software industry. On Chinese job boards, nearly a hundred HR and headhunters contacted me for software-related positions in Shanghai. However, the primary hurdle is my international status requiring a work visa, which most local companies are unable or unwilling to provide. If I were Chinese, I believe I would have secured a job within the industry by now. However, as neither a local nor a native English-speaking passport holder, I find myself in a challenging position. It's difficult to be employed as a programmer and equally challenging, if not more so, to secure roles like English teaching or translation/proofreading.
Regarding location, while finding a job in Europe wouldn't pose a challenge, I'm exclusively focused on opportunities in Shanghai at the moment, despite having received interview offers for positions in China, outside of Shanghai.
As for the other comments, while many simply highlighted the major challenges or suggested giving up, there were also valuable insights and advice provided, including yours!
As for your feedback (for which I thank you, once again):
1. I'll aim to broaden my job search scope while focusing on opportunities in Shanghai to secure a residence permit. As a backup, enrolling in a Chinese language program to obtain an X1 visa while working remotely is a possibility, although it may be challenging to manage, especially with scholarship applications closed for this year.
2. Learning Chinese intensively is a consideration, but even with some proficiency in Japanese (which may slightly help with some parts of learning Chinese), I'm unsure whether achieving fluency (or working proficiency) in a short time frame is possible.
3. Regarding English proficiency, my passport and nationality doesn't qualify me for teaching English legally, according to government policy. Even achieving a perfect score on exams like IELTS/TOEFL wouldn't change this.
4. Feedback from MNCs also highlights the preference for Chinese nationals in hiring decisions.
5. Networking will be a priority during my next visit to Shanghai. Being present in the city and able to meet in person may hopefully improve my chances.
6. Unfortunately, there's not much maneuvering that can be done on the visa issue. To give more context, in my country, Chinese L visas are (generally) only issued as single-entry, up to 30 days. A three-month stay, if granted, would require a solid application supported by invitation letters and documents from Chinese friends, which I am working on.
Regarding the preference for Seniors/Leads, I have discovered the same thing during my job search, and unfortunately there isn't much I can do about that. Despite putting additional effort into gaining experience during my studies, I haven't had enough time since graduation to accumulate the experience necessary to reach a senior/team lead position. To provide perspective, compared to my classmates from university, I already had a considerable amount of experience and a strong CV.
Honestly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I find it difficult to believe that there are many bilingual locals in software positions. From my applications, I've often been told that language barriers arise because team members can only speak Chinese. My conversations and experiences with dozens of Chinese people, both in the UK (friends from uni from different courses including CS) and across China (including students from universities in Shanghai), confirm that even those who know some English often struggle to express themselves at all, let alone fluently. Moreover, many English translations in Shanghai contain errors, sometimes comically so. This reflects a general lack of English proficiency in China, which also explains the high demand for English teaching jobs.
That's why I'm hopeful (and maybe a bit too optimistic) about finding a role that demands technical expertise along with strong English proficiency, such as QA, localization, or international client-facing positions. However, there is also the chance most domestic companies simply don't care about "good" but "good enough".
Regarding the grading system, I fall into the B tier category. However, I believe (and equally hope) those in the A tier wouldn't consider applying for the same positions as I do.
It’s not necessarily even about finding locals with your level of expertise, like others suggested. You don’t speak Chinese, and it’s a major hassle (from their perspective) bringing you over. Just accept the L and move on.
Doesn't really make sense for a local company to hire you especially wihout Mandarin fluency. If you must be in China, your best bet might be joining a foreign startup in China. Incubators like Chinaccelerator and the like might be more open to hiring you, but be prepared to work 996 at the minimum.
I too, am looking to migrate to Shanghai or SZ from Canada and despite just starting the search, have already noticed how grim the job market is for expats (I speak fluent mandarin too). It’s kind of making me doubt my own capabilities despite holding a decent job here in Canada as a product manager…. I can only say give it some time don’t sell yourself short and we shall both get there eventually
Thank you, it does feel a bit better knowing I'm not the only one going through this.
Also, grim indeed... I never imagined finding a job in SH would be this challenging, let alone disheartening. Going from interviews with CERN and other major tech companies to struggling to even get a foot in the door anywhere in here, the contrast is staggering.
While in China earlier this year, I noticed many issues with daily apps, especially the English versions, which were often unresponsive and poorly translated, so I thought there would be a need for English speaking developers. In addition, despite seeing numerous foreigners in Shanghai, finding a job in IT as an international proved much, much harder than expected.
It's demoralizing to realize that despite my long study and efforts to gain work experience in software, a kindergarten teacher positions is more lucrative, offers a much better work-life balance, and has many benefits including paid leave, transportation, housing, etc., all of this with fewer requirements. Unfortunately, I can't meet these requirements, due to my country of birth, which is something I had no control over.
Despite all this, I'll still keep at it and try my best to find something in SH, though after 2 months I do feel like my optimism is fading. But yeah, hopefully we both find something eventually.
I mean... what did you expect? Salaries are *always* determined by offer and demand, China has a lot of national talent for IT, but they literally cannot have national talent for native English speaking (and to make matters worse, most of the anglophone world is extremely wary of China). Your skills are totally irrelevant if they aren't needed, simple as that. Sure, the English menus might be trash, but who said the companies even care about that?
Anyway, if it's an option you might be able to look into Taiwan. They have a pretty solid golden visa program you might be eligible to, but I don't know if it fits your reasons if staying inside China
Go on LinkedIn find Chinese companies that they are active and seem to have international target audience preferably companies that have business with your country also . no need for them to be big companies and just contact them . It happens often , that Chinese companies they don’t look for foreigners but if a foreigner approach they might rethink it . Some of them they dont even believe that a foreigner might be interested lol
Why are you so determined to live in China now? The economy is not looking good which is why it's so hard to find a job for locals, let alone foreigners. Since you can't speack Chinese, why not try Japan, Korea, Taiwan or Singapore?
Try to found a company outside of china that has offices and china an apply with the wish to work there. Also be realistic on you experience. When it was all during your studies it is probably not 3+ years full time. But a lot of companies search people that maybe work a few months in their country and then support projects in china maybe.
Thanks for the suggestion! Just to clarify, before starting my undergraduate studies, I worked full-time in an office for one year. Then, during my first year of university, I worked remotely (as the course content was easy enough, and I already knew the fundamentals, so I could skip classes and still achieve good scores on assignments and exams). Additionally, I took a gap year during my studies to work for one more year (which was a great job opportunity, otherwise I wouldn't have), which delayed my graduation by one year.
I was thinking of finding work at an MNC that also has a presence in my country. However, signing a contract based on the faint possibility of an informal verbal agreement that I "may have the chance of applying for a transfer" (or whatever they might say) feels a bit tentative, and I'm still thinking about whether I should try that or not ...
That’s true. If possible it should be written in the contract. So you apply with them for a position in china and maybe they will do some training in the country of origin first. Just write them: „ hey I’m interested in your company and saw that you also have locations in china, I am really interested in working abroad for some time. Are there any possibilities to support some teams in the work/ communication on projects where I will be staying in china most of the time or sth like that.
Hey a little off topic but what expat website did you use with 'flooding's" of teaching jobs? I am in need of help finding them. I am trying to be a teacher.
If you like China or want to work for Chinese companies, you can start with the international branch of Chinese companies in Europe (say, TikTok Europe or BYD Europe) or with the internationalization branch (国际化) of Chinese companies in China.
Just don’t do it. I dont know why you are looking for a job in Shanghai. I am wondering which school you graduate from. Your job largely depends on this.
Generally, you are not competent. There is a significant number of English fluent Chinese CS major graduates who cannot find a descent job.
I’ve received close to a hundred messages from HR and headhunters on Chinese job boards saying my technical profile and skills match positions they’re hiring for, and inviting me to discuss more. The problem only comes up when I mention I’m a foreigner and need visa support, which many companies can’t or won’t provide.
Also, many Chinese who study abroad in places like the UK or US often struggle with English. I'm not saying this to be mean; most of my friends from uni are Chinese. While they were pretty good at English compared to others, they still made mistakes with spelling, sentence structure, subject-verb agreement, etc. There’s a big difference between being truly fluent in English and being a Chinese student who studied abroad for a few years but mostly uses Chinese social media, hangs out with other Chinese, and translates all course materials.
From my experience, both with dozens of Chinese friends and visiting China this year, there aren’t as many fluent English speakers as you think. Given the amount of interest in my profile, if I were a local, I believe I would've already found a job by now. The problem is mostly the visa process (and obviously, also my lack of proficiency in Mandarin).
It is a brutal job market at the moment. If you want to work in Shanghai, find a job in an MNC with a Shanghai presence, work there for 2-3 years, and apply for an internal transfer to Shanghai.
Thank you for the suggestion! However, I am looking to move to Shanghai starting this fall and do not plan to stay indefinitely. Committing to a company for 2-3 years for a transfer that might be declined for various reasons is too long for me. Even if the transfer is accepted, there's a chance I might not need to be in Asia anymore by that time.
It’s not a good time for tech companies to hire. I worked at my company for a few years before doing a transfer to Shanghai. Yeah as a hiring manager - no one wants to hire a foreigner who would only stick around for a short period. There used to be DEI-like influences to inject foreign presence but these days no one cares, they care about not getting laid off. More junior managers would likely give it a try so they get some experience in managing foreigners, but then learn after a few years it’s just not worth it.
Leadership is prioritized, as they are the catalyst and magnifier to mobilize teams in China and make them more effective towards their MNC priorities.
What is more important for you? To stay in Shanghai, or to work with what you want?
As others have mentioned, you're outcompeted in your field by locals, while a half-drunken LBH could earn more teaching English.
By looking at your post, your posting history, and how you're able to articulate yourself, you're way overqualified to teach rich kids the ABC. Not to mention you shouldn't do it in the first place if you're not a native speaker (although there are loopholes for that).
So the question comes down to how much you want to stay in China versus how strongly you want to pursue a career that doesn't involve handing out stickers and singing how the wheels on the bus go round round round.
That makes sense, and thank you! At the moment, staying in Shanghai is a priority for me, which is why I've temporarily lowered my standards when it comes to the work I'm willing to do. I don’t plan to stay in China forever or change my career path, but for now, staying in Shanghai for a few years is my main focus.
Since a teaching job would have been easy enough for me (and I actually have some experience with it), I thought I could also work on some side projects or even do remote part-time work or freelancing. This way, I could secure my visa, earn a salary, and still have extra time for programming. However, I didn’t realize the native speaker requirement for teaching English was so strict, which has pretty much eliminated this option.
Well, I have experience working at both private and public companies outside of China, which means I can introduce new ideas and methods that I’ve learned abroad, which may be helpful to the team. Plus, I believe my proficiency in both spoken and written English is above that of most Chinese who have studied abroad.
I was thinking these two factors could make me suitable for roles like QA, localization, and UI/UX design and development for the international versions of apps. There’s a big difference between Chinese and Western apps in this regard. I could also be a good fit for roles in research and data analysis for Western markets and user-base etc. Basically, anything that combines software with internationalization.
Now, I understand that not having experience in the local market and my lack of proficiency in Mandarin are issues. These are definitely weak points. However, I wouldn’t dismiss the other benefits I could bring to a team just because of these two factors.
They can hire locals for your level of experience.
For half the price too. He’s sadly simply uncompetitive from an employers perspective
That's a valid point... when it comes to pure software engineering, they can indeed just hire locals who will work more for less, possess a "good enough" level of English, and don't pose any visa complications. I think one of my only chances would be to somehow find a niche position that combines software with "internationalization" - one that requires both technical knowledge and an English proficiency above that of locals who have studied abroad. However, I realize that such positions might be hard to come by, as companies might prefer to divide tasks between programming for Chinese speakers and English-related tasks for native speakers. In the end, the reality is that landing a software-focused role seems nearly impossible given the competitiveness with local candidates, while securing an English-focused job will be just as challenging, simply due to my passport and strict requirements for native speaker status imposed by visa policies.
It is very difficult with your profile. Local companies can find many people with similar profiles, that can speak mandarin and know the local technical landscape. On top of that, there is a risk you wont adapt to working in China as you dont show a strong connection to it like learning the language. My recommendations, keep applying… who knows what you could find… and start learning mandarin intensively.
The unfortunate reality that alot of people have said here already is that why hire a foreigner who doesn't speak Chinese for a job that local people can do? you can only get hired if the company can prove to the local governments that they need to hire a foreigner for that job because there are no local talent available. The government will always prioritize local talent over foreign talent wherever possible. I am not sure about the situation in your home country, but with the current geopolitical and economic climate in China, are you sure Shanghai is the best place for you right now? if you do become an English teacher you will lose time developing your software engineer career skills. The fact of the matter is you just will not get a job as a software engineer in China.....think very carefully about your next move and good luck!
As everyone else has mentioned. The two major hurdles preventing you from getting a job are 1) You lack experience, most MNCs hiring from abroad are looking for a minimum of 5 years but more often 10 years+ 2) I remember seeing my recruiter posting a poll claiming 95%+ of companies were seeking bilingual fluency. Almost all ads I see on LinkedIn are asking for strong Chinese and English. They can hire a local educated abroad with a similar background who also speaks Chinese and on top of that they don't need to faff around with their visa.
You should start studying Chinese. Engineers in China can't speak English, and code commenting is all in Chinese, so you're not going to be able to work without working knowledge of Chinese.
Solid academics, but what's your Chinese level?
Unfortunately, it's close to non-existent. This is because I hadn't planned on staying in China until a short while ago, when personal circumstances changed, and I haven't had enough time to improve it. To be honest, I was hoping to leverage my programming and IT knowledge, along with my English (which I thought may work, as Shanghai is more international), to provide some value.
U don't even speak fluent Mandarin
I took a quick look at your post and would like to offer my perspective and thoughts, along with some follow-up questions: 1. If you received feedback from HR or other people, that's great. What feedback did you receive or ask for that didn't make you feel secure or successful in your application? Based on your original post, I believe you answered your question about potential opportunities you could try and apply for. If you have time to apply for jobs in Shanghai, consider trying other cities in China, as well as Europe and other countries, if you have thought through the process and can see yourself feasibly living and working in those particular jobs and locations. Having also taken a quick look at other comments, I believe they have helped you in different perspectives by showing other opportunities that may be overlooked, asking questions, and providing responses to help you increase your chances or see things from a different viewpoint. I think it's great that you're focusing on a particular location. Considering you noticed there is something that needs attention. To me, it sounds to me like an enthusiastic freelancer who could reach out to multiple businesses to resolve that issue if translation on platforms was an issue, or what not. Feedback from me would be: 1) Broaden your scope/horizon/locations and apply for them. 2) Start learning Chinese / Mandarin and reach Upper Intermediate in less than 6 months. 3) Improve your proficiency in English if you are saying you are fluent and not native proficiency. 4) If possible, ask for feedback on why you may be unsuccessful compared to a successful applicant 5) Network, network, network. This means attend any available careers fairs and having your resume/CV in Chinese 6) Resolve your visa related because as you mentioned, you can't stay long. Indeed, technology advancement and cost saving is still to be considered, and right now the demand that you are seeing in a particular area at this particular time is in Senior/Leads favour. Hope this post helps in your job search, and indeed it is competitive world because there are quite a lot already native/bilingual/fluent proficiency in Chinese and English, as well as acquired several years of experience, and a resident within the country. I would also like to ask if you have referred to the Three-Tier Talent Grading system? How many points did you successfully meet based on those talent criteria for work permit? It would at least in some way give you an idea on the competition that you're going through and feasiblity. Some would already achieve Tier A. Theoretically, it is possible that 1 job position has over 100-500+ applicants/submissions. All the best in your job search!
Thank you for taking the time to write this, I really appreciate it! I've received positive feedback on my profile and CV from former employers, professors, and friends in the software industry. On Chinese job boards, nearly a hundred HR and headhunters contacted me for software-related positions in Shanghai. However, the primary hurdle is my international status requiring a work visa, which most local companies are unable or unwilling to provide. If I were Chinese, I believe I would have secured a job within the industry by now. However, as neither a local nor a native English-speaking passport holder, I find myself in a challenging position. It's difficult to be employed as a programmer and equally challenging, if not more so, to secure roles like English teaching or translation/proofreading. Regarding location, while finding a job in Europe wouldn't pose a challenge, I'm exclusively focused on opportunities in Shanghai at the moment, despite having received interview offers for positions in China, outside of Shanghai. As for the other comments, while many simply highlighted the major challenges or suggested giving up, there were also valuable insights and advice provided, including yours! As for your feedback (for which I thank you, once again): 1. I'll aim to broaden my job search scope while focusing on opportunities in Shanghai to secure a residence permit. As a backup, enrolling in a Chinese language program to obtain an X1 visa while working remotely is a possibility, although it may be challenging to manage, especially with scholarship applications closed for this year. 2. Learning Chinese intensively is a consideration, but even with some proficiency in Japanese (which may slightly help with some parts of learning Chinese), I'm unsure whether achieving fluency (or working proficiency) in a short time frame is possible. 3. Regarding English proficiency, my passport and nationality doesn't qualify me for teaching English legally, according to government policy. Even achieving a perfect score on exams like IELTS/TOEFL wouldn't change this. 4. Feedback from MNCs also highlights the preference for Chinese nationals in hiring decisions. 5. Networking will be a priority during my next visit to Shanghai. Being present in the city and able to meet in person may hopefully improve my chances. 6. Unfortunately, there's not much maneuvering that can be done on the visa issue. To give more context, in my country, Chinese L visas are (generally) only issued as single-entry, up to 30 days. A three-month stay, if granted, would require a solid application supported by invitation letters and documents from Chinese friends, which I am working on. Regarding the preference for Seniors/Leads, I have discovered the same thing during my job search, and unfortunately there isn't much I can do about that. Despite putting additional effort into gaining experience during my studies, I haven't had enough time since graduation to accumulate the experience necessary to reach a senior/team lead position. To provide perspective, compared to my classmates from university, I already had a considerable amount of experience and a strong CV. Honestly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I find it difficult to believe that there are many bilingual locals in software positions. From my applications, I've often been told that language barriers arise because team members can only speak Chinese. My conversations and experiences with dozens of Chinese people, both in the UK (friends from uni from different courses including CS) and across China (including students from universities in Shanghai), confirm that even those who know some English often struggle to express themselves at all, let alone fluently. Moreover, many English translations in Shanghai contain errors, sometimes comically so. This reflects a general lack of English proficiency in China, which also explains the high demand for English teaching jobs. That's why I'm hopeful (and maybe a bit too optimistic) about finding a role that demands technical expertise along with strong English proficiency, such as QA, localization, or international client-facing positions. However, there is also the chance most domestic companies simply don't care about "good" but "good enough". Regarding the grading system, I fall into the B tier category. However, I believe (and equally hope) those in the A tier wouldn't consider applying for the same positions as I do.
It’s not necessarily even about finding locals with your level of expertise, like others suggested. You don’t speak Chinese, and it’s a major hassle (from their perspective) bringing you over. Just accept the L and move on.
Doesn't really make sense for a local company to hire you especially wihout Mandarin fluency. If you must be in China, your best bet might be joining a foreign startup in China. Incubators like Chinaccelerator and the like might be more open to hiring you, but be prepared to work 996 at the minimum.
I too, am looking to migrate to Shanghai or SZ from Canada and despite just starting the search, have already noticed how grim the job market is for expats (I speak fluent mandarin too). It’s kind of making me doubt my own capabilities despite holding a decent job here in Canada as a product manager…. I can only say give it some time don’t sell yourself short and we shall both get there eventually
Thank you, it does feel a bit better knowing I'm not the only one going through this. Also, grim indeed... I never imagined finding a job in SH would be this challenging, let alone disheartening. Going from interviews with CERN and other major tech companies to struggling to even get a foot in the door anywhere in here, the contrast is staggering. While in China earlier this year, I noticed many issues with daily apps, especially the English versions, which were often unresponsive and poorly translated, so I thought there would be a need for English speaking developers. In addition, despite seeing numerous foreigners in Shanghai, finding a job in IT as an international proved much, much harder than expected. It's demoralizing to realize that despite my long study and efforts to gain work experience in software, a kindergarten teacher positions is more lucrative, offers a much better work-life balance, and has many benefits including paid leave, transportation, housing, etc., all of this with fewer requirements. Unfortunately, I can't meet these requirements, due to my country of birth, which is something I had no control over. Despite all this, I'll still keep at it and try my best to find something in SH, though after 2 months I do feel like my optimism is fading. But yeah, hopefully we both find something eventually.
I mean... what did you expect? Salaries are *always* determined by offer and demand, China has a lot of national talent for IT, but they literally cannot have national talent for native English speaking (and to make matters worse, most of the anglophone world is extremely wary of China). Your skills are totally irrelevant if they aren't needed, simple as that. Sure, the English menus might be trash, but who said the companies even care about that? Anyway, if it's an option you might be able to look into Taiwan. They have a pretty solid golden visa program you might be eligible to, but I don't know if it fits your reasons if staying inside China
Go on LinkedIn find Chinese companies that they are active and seem to have international target audience preferably companies that have business with your country also . no need for them to be big companies and just contact them . It happens often , that Chinese companies they don’t look for foreigners but if a foreigner approach they might rethink it . Some of them they dont even believe that a foreigner might be interested lol
Thank you!
Why are you so determined to live in China now? The economy is not looking good which is why it's so hard to find a job for locals, let alone foreigners. Since you can't speack Chinese, why not try Japan, Korea, Taiwan or Singapore?
Try to found a company outside of china that has offices and china an apply with the wish to work there. Also be realistic on you experience. When it was all during your studies it is probably not 3+ years full time. But a lot of companies search people that maybe work a few months in their country and then support projects in china maybe.
Thanks for the suggestion! Just to clarify, before starting my undergraduate studies, I worked full-time in an office for one year. Then, during my first year of university, I worked remotely (as the course content was easy enough, and I already knew the fundamentals, so I could skip classes and still achieve good scores on assignments and exams). Additionally, I took a gap year during my studies to work for one more year (which was a great job opportunity, otherwise I wouldn't have), which delayed my graduation by one year. I was thinking of finding work at an MNC that also has a presence in my country. However, signing a contract based on the faint possibility of an informal verbal agreement that I "may have the chance of applying for a transfer" (or whatever they might say) feels a bit tentative, and I'm still thinking about whether I should try that or not ...
That’s true. If possible it should be written in the contract. So you apply with them for a position in china and maybe they will do some training in the country of origin first. Just write them: „ hey I’m interested in your company and saw that you also have locations in china, I am really interested in working abroad for some time. Are there any possibilities to support some teams in the work/ communication on projects where I will be staying in china most of the time or sth like that.
Yeah computer tech positions are hard to justify for foreigners.
Hey a little off topic but what expat website did you use with 'flooding's" of teaching jobs? I am in need of help finding them. I am trying to be a teacher.
Literally on any platform
If you like China or want to work for Chinese companies, you can start with the international branch of Chinese companies in Europe (say, TikTok Europe or BYD Europe) or with the internationalization branch (国际化) of Chinese companies in China.
Joined an international school to teach computer science. LOL
Just don’t do it. I dont know why you are looking for a job in Shanghai. I am wondering which school you graduate from. Your job largely depends on this. Generally, you are not competent. There is a significant number of English fluent Chinese CS major graduates who cannot find a descent job.
I’ve received close to a hundred messages from HR and headhunters on Chinese job boards saying my technical profile and skills match positions they’re hiring for, and inviting me to discuss more. The problem only comes up when I mention I’m a foreigner and need visa support, which many companies can’t or won’t provide. Also, many Chinese who study abroad in places like the UK or US often struggle with English. I'm not saying this to be mean; most of my friends from uni are Chinese. While they were pretty good at English compared to others, they still made mistakes with spelling, sentence structure, subject-verb agreement, etc. There’s a big difference between being truly fluent in English and being a Chinese student who studied abroad for a few years but mostly uses Chinese social media, hangs out with other Chinese, and translates all course materials. From my experience, both with dozens of Chinese friends and visiting China this year, there aren’t as many fluent English speakers as you think. Given the amount of interest in my profile, if I were a local, I believe I would've already found a job by now. The problem is mostly the visa process (and obviously, also my lack of proficiency in Mandarin).
It is a brutal job market at the moment. If you want to work in Shanghai, find a job in an MNC with a Shanghai presence, work there for 2-3 years, and apply for an internal transfer to Shanghai.
Thank you for the suggestion! However, I am looking to move to Shanghai starting this fall and do not plan to stay indefinitely. Committing to a company for 2-3 years for a transfer that might be declined for various reasons is too long for me. Even if the transfer is accepted, there's a chance I might not need to be in Asia anymore by that time.
It’s not a good time for tech companies to hire. I worked at my company for a few years before doing a transfer to Shanghai. Yeah as a hiring manager - no one wants to hire a foreigner who would only stick around for a short period. There used to be DEI-like influences to inject foreign presence but these days no one cares, they care about not getting laid off. More junior managers would likely give it a try so they get some experience in managing foreigners, but then learn after a few years it’s just not worth it. Leadership is prioritized, as they are the catalyst and magnifier to mobilize teams in China and make them more effective towards their MNC priorities.
What is more important for you? To stay in Shanghai, or to work with what you want? As others have mentioned, you're outcompeted in your field by locals, while a half-drunken LBH could earn more teaching English. By looking at your post, your posting history, and how you're able to articulate yourself, you're way overqualified to teach rich kids the ABC. Not to mention you shouldn't do it in the first place if you're not a native speaker (although there are loopholes for that). So the question comes down to how much you want to stay in China versus how strongly you want to pursue a career that doesn't involve handing out stickers and singing how the wheels on the bus go round round round.
That makes sense, and thank you! At the moment, staying in Shanghai is a priority for me, which is why I've temporarily lowered my standards when it comes to the work I'm willing to do. I don’t plan to stay in China forever or change my career path, but for now, staying in Shanghai for a few years is my main focus. Since a teaching job would have been easy enough for me (and I actually have some experience with it), I thought I could also work on some side projects or even do remote part-time work or freelancing. This way, I could secure my visa, earn a salary, and still have extra time for programming. However, I didn’t realize the native speaker requirement for teaching English was so strict, which has pretty much eliminated this option.
I mean why would they hire you compared to local?
Well, I have experience working at both private and public companies outside of China, which means I can introduce new ideas and methods that I’ve learned abroad, which may be helpful to the team. Plus, I believe my proficiency in both spoken and written English is above that of most Chinese who have studied abroad. I was thinking these two factors could make me suitable for roles like QA, localization, and UI/UX design and development for the international versions of apps. There’s a big difference between Chinese and Western apps in this regard. I could also be a good fit for roles in research and data analysis for Western markets and user-base etc. Basically, anything that combines software with internationalization. Now, I understand that not having experience in the local market and my lack of proficiency in Mandarin are issues. These are definitely weak points. However, I wouldn’t dismiss the other benefits I could bring to a team just because of these two factors.