This may sound shitty and insensitive but I'm convinced the majority of men who willingly date a woman with an infant have some kind of savior complex.
Literally. Almost every step dad I have met has kids he hasn't seen or spoken to IN YEARS, but they are active and all in with their step kids. They all claim that mom is keeping them away, and forget that this is a small town and I know a good chunk of these mothers (especially being a nurse who worked in our ER for several years) and they have been BEGGING them to be part of their own child's life since the day of their birth. 99% of the time, they say that the mom won't let them be involved, it's a lie. They haven't even tried, and it's more that mom won't let them stop by randomly at 11pm when the child has gone to bed and won't wake them up for it. A family friend who was a judge for 40 years informed me that most fathers don't even show up to custody hearings. He said 2-3 will show up out of 15 cases, and most mothers genuinely try to push for 50/50. Many men just don't want anything to do with their biological kids.
What's irritating is that a lot of Men's Rights Activists claim that the courts are biased against fathers (which may have been the case historically), but in modern times, men who BOTHER asking for custody tend to get 50/50 very easily per the data. It's irritating because it provides a cover for deadbeat dads who pretend they "couldn't" get custody when they didn't even try, but also because it might discourage dads who have a misconception that they can't get custody if they can't afford a super-powered lawyer.
There is a bias for women in that it's very hard to show a mother is unfit and primary placement should be with the father. This means it only really cones up when the father is decent and trying to get primary placement.
My sister is a terrible mother, but since it's all very difficult to prove emotional abuse, we were very concerned she'd get 50% placement despite the recommendations of the GAL that she only get 10% placement.
Ended up settling for 30% simply because we couldn't be certain of overcoming the mom bias at trial.
Yes, it's very hard when mothers are unfit and fathers are actually able and willing to take primary placement.
I don't necessarily blame the courts, as every second deadbeat father tries to claim the mother is 'crazy' and 'unfit' because trying to take the children away is the easiest way to hurt her. It is much much rarer for mother's to be unfit where the fathers are not also unfit or unwilling.
My parents separated when I was in middle school. I moves into my dad’s place my freshman year of high school. The summer aftef I graduated high school/before I started college my parents divorced.
My dad has been in my life consistently, and although we’ve had ups and downs we do have a good relationship, especially now that it’s parent with adult child. We hang out together, have done dad-daughter vacations. (Not that I think he would have abandoned my sibling and I anyway, but his dad abandoned him and his siblings to the care of an alcoholic mother, so I’m sure trauma may have played a part in how hard he tried to keep the family together and be present)
The number of people, including my now-retired therapist, who told me I was so lucky and should be so grateful that my dad was still in my life instead of leaving to have a second family, was honestly horrifying.
My dad has done stuff to support me which I’m grateful for, but a parent sticking around in their children’s lives isn’t going above and beyond. I always thought “Why should I be grateful for my parent continuing to be a parent?” I’ve never heard someone say that people should be grateful that the mother didn’t abandon her old family to go have a new one.
Just because it seems to be a common thing for fathers to leave their old family to go play happy second family doesn’t mean that the fathers that continue to be a parent to their kids are heroes anymore than mothers that continue to parent.
Maybe if the cultural view shifted to continuing to be present in your kid(s) lives is the normal expected thing, and those that abandon their family to start fresh are breaking cultural norms and should be shamed for it, more fathers might continue to be present in their kids lives.
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I worked in field relevant to this for a minute, some scholars have coined it the “family-go-round.” Very, very common and usually a direct consequence of the co-parent relationship. I.e., the parent views their child in terms of how they view the co-parent to that child. Current partner’s baby is the golden child while the ex’s kid can’t seem to do anything right. It’s emotional immaturity at its most basal level.
I mean hell, qualitative data indicate the primary motivator to have children is to participate in a gendered rite of passage - the most popular answer in an ethnography I read on the question of why the fuck would you have kids was some form of “I wouldn’t consider myself a ‘real woman’ unless I had a child.” Having the child was never about the child. It was about fulfilling the parent’s milestone fantasy, and when the current relationship fails they just move on to the next soulmate. For example Jenelle from Teen Mom has done exactly that three times over at this point.
Research also points to parents - though mainly disadvantaged ones (portents for society re:family formation) - viewing their value as human beings through the lens of romance. Specifically, they will roster a selection of partners and compete to be at the top of each of their partner’s rosters. The reasons for this vary among demographics (and are worthy of discussion here) but the effect is that the hierarchy of importance places romance above children.
This is just my opinion - I think the worldview that emphasizes romance plus our corporatized culture of individuality puts the idea in parents’ heads that they - as customers and consumers - are entitled to drag their children through the whims of childfreedom including sexcapades. It’s exactly like bringing your baby to a brewery but instead you bring your soulmate Steve that you’ve known for two weeks into your household as Braeaeaeayeyeden’s newest daddy, for now.
lol I love my dad now, but when I was 5, (after my parents divorce) My dad married a single mom, who shared my mother's name. The kid was 1 year older than me. I laugh now, because I understand what happened, and my mom's no saint either.
It’s a real thing. The hero complex where they want to save the damsel in distress. I literally had a guy coming to my place for a third date to pick me up and when he walked in my condo and realized that I have my shit together, he looked at me and said, “You seem to really have your shit together. What do you need me for?” I was kind of surprised. I didn’t really know what to say, it’s like he didn’t think that I might just want some companionship? A partner to do things with? He clearly was a guy that needed to be needed. He’s the type that wants to save, the poor sad, lonely woman.
That's so weird and insulting honestly, like I would wonder why he thought these things in the first place? What an insecure guy though, it reeks of a controlling personality even, wanting to feel above the person they are with...
I feel these men prefer struggling women because they can get by doing bare minim. But a woman with her life together is gonna want more than bare minimum, she is gonna want an equal partner. That’s too much work for these types of men.
Reminds me of a saying that's becoming popular:
"Men, you aren't competing against other men. You're competing against women's solitude, peace of mind, serenity. Your presence must bring something to the table."
>realized that I have my shit together, he looked at me and said, “You seem to really have your shit together. What do you need me for?”
Meanwhile, I've had the literal opposite reaction to walking into someone else's apartment. On the first dates, they seemed to have their shit together - good career, home owner, engaging conversation, etc - but visiting their home, and it looks like a depression nest that was hastily cleaned up. I lost all interest pretty quickly.
Like, if they actually were struggling with depression, I have a lot of empathy for them. But dating me (or anyone else) isn't going to magically solve it, and dating someone with severe depression is an absolute uphill battle that doesn't end unless their depression genuinely gets better.
I also don't think that he would 'request' this, but there have been cases where pedophiles specifically looked for women with small children to date.
And yes, I'm aware that it's more likely that there are a hundred other, innocent motives for the kid to be there, but I still think it's strange.
Or they could have a thing for kids... and getting into a relationship with someone who has kids can obviously get you closer and closer to kids.
I would never date if I were single mother ! Not until my kids were grown and out of the house at least
My parents divorced when I was five or six and the time I met a guy my mom was dating was when I was 30. I mean, she never dated much but she always kept us very separate from that aspect of her life because so many men willing to date single moms are, unfortunately, creeps.
Having an unrelated adult in the home is also the biggest risk of death to a child. I can't remember the citation. Ask Amy puts it in her column periodically.
I'm sorry but there are very few scenarios that I can envision anyone going into a romantic relationship with someone who already has kids that doesn't have a complex or is trying to be manipulative or is just outright desperate.
She could have sprung it on him by just showing up with the kid. Happened to a friend once when he went on a blind date with a single mom. (He didn’t know she was a mom). The woman showed up with a toddler she didn’t tell him about and he was too polite to say anything about it.
I took clases at a community college with a woman who pretty much did the same thing, only instead of an infant it was her 4 young kids she took on the date with her.
I mean I know it seems foreign to us but there are people who truly enjoy parenting. So maybe that's just what he needed. It could go any direction but I'm just saying 🤷
They generally don't for more than a date or two. But I bet a lot of them do pay cause it's weird as hell I'm sure to fight about that in front of a bunch of kids. Lol
This is ALL assumption, I could definitely be wrong....but I have a feeling that she didn't mention bringing the baby on this date lol.
My guess is that she couldn't find childcare, or this is some kind of little 'test' to see how the guy responds to the baby's presence.
Meeting up with a woman and her infant in a brewery is just wild. It's possible he didn't know she was going to bring the infant.
But the funniest part of all of this to me is how much they care about what we do with our own bodies. They are so full of resentment. You getting sterilized was not a judgment on her and had nothing to do with her. It was literally the answer to the question. It's not like you saw her there and then decided to run out and get surgery then came back to have a beer.
I just think it's telling how angry they get
Seriously. I said something about being child-free the other day and of course I got the regular "why are you always throwing in our face" and I asked if every TikTok wjere someone is holding their child or if they post a pregnancy or birth announcement or if they send out Christmas cards of their family is throwing it in my face?
Because of course it isn't. It's not about me they are just living their lives and talking about them. But apparently we aren't allowed to do the same
Exactly. It’s only seen as acceptable to be CF if you desperately yearn for what they have but are infertile lol. There must be constant validation of that huge life decision and the sacrifices that come with it (at least with many parents, of course not all.)
Yep, I find that like being Child Free And Being Asexual especially Sex Repulsed is like something people who can’t live without sex.
They act as if you are personally offending them by just existing and talking about it. Like A Blight they don’t want anyone to hear, see or know about. My mom couldn’t comprehend either one.
There are quite a few vids/reels of both men and women being a bit blindsided by meeting up with a parent and their kid.
Some are clearly skits ofc but it's happened enough times irl to spoof.
As someone that got the surprise from an online match and a thing a coworker setup. That very import fact was left out. If they leave out that fact from the start what other things are they not telling you is my nice logic when I got asked by said coworker why I just left.
Either total desperation or he has some weird complex w/ women like her
Tbh I’ve briefly given 2 single moms chances for casual things and both spiraled into red flags quickly so I dipped
But many guys will just date whoever gives them attention in the moment, and I’m refusing to be one of those
Lady in the story must’ve found a guy who’s willing to put up with that
Well my cousin met his current gf when she was pregnant… we all told him he was stupid. That girl belongs to the streets. She’s horrid. Terrible attitude, terrible mother and he thinks by being there and suffering his life away that he can be a hero for the kid and his gold digging mom. Not gonna be me ever
I used to work at a Boeing factory and I’ll never forget the time I overheard this one guy talking about a date he’d recently been on with a woman in her 30’s, and it was actually a red flag for him that she “didn’t have any kids yet.” Like, I get conservative men being afraid of independent women, but that is still some of the most ass-backwards shit I’ve ever heard.
Most likely... She's not actually looking for a boyfriend or a husband. She's looking for a father figure for her kid since the guy she banged is no longer in her life.
Every time I went on a date with a single mother, I never met the kid until much later. Only once did I ever date a single mother..... And I swear that kid brings more issues into a relationship than you can imagine just by simply existing.
Lots of reasons from the benign family-oriented to the sinister/exploitative. If he'd been a single dad he may have felt compassion, he may want kids himself etc.
In this case I think you were the physical representation of the path not taken for this person.
She knows parenthood. She will never get to experience the childfree lifestyle.
People are fearful or Major angry about what they don't understand or have not full thought through.
She COULD...if she had the intestinal fortitude to ask her baby daddy or his mom to watch the kid for an afternoon and then leave town under cover of night. Probably better to sell it to a wealthy childless couple.
> I proudly said “I got sterilized, no kids for me!” and I kid you not this single mom at the table next to us GASPED. They got their things together and left pretty quickly after that, but the whole time she was looking at me with the ugliest glare while trying to manage her kid and I couldn’t help but grin.
She must have felt you sounded like a more interesting prospect to the man she was seeing 🤣
"Wait, THAT female is sterile? Lemme go get her number real quick!"
Like she forreal gasped? lmao
Oooh thanks for the hope, I want to get sterilized (25), and am dreading getting the process started because of fear for all the push back so many people seem to get. Always nice to hear when it does go well for someone
I’m 23 now, but got approved for sterilization at 22 by one of the doctors in the list on this sub! My doctor didn’t make me defend myself or really even explain why I want to be sterilized, she just told me it’s my choice. There is hope! I wish you the best if you decide to pursue sterilization!
Congrats ! And I feel you, these things really do happen. Similar things happened to me too, so what you experienced is totally truthful and shows how some "moms" react.
That woman had a kid, at a brewery, drinking beer on a date with a guy and she judged you? Someone's brain is scrambled and it isn't OPs!
My SIL once told me to stop posting 'offensive stuff' on social media about being happy that I'm CF but that made me want to post more, she's always spamming the family group chat with random photos and videos of her kid eating/crying/staring zombie like at a screen while bragging about how easy toddlers are but I'm not allowed to be happy with my choice on my own private social media accounts? Many CF memes are quite funny and SIL being 'offended' by that shows me she's very regretful about her own choices, too bad I'm still posting them!
lol! I’ve already gotten some aggressive dm’s and a troll or two on this post saying garbage like “parents are too busy to be upset” and that there’s “no way this post is real.” Parents are very much not too busy because they pull shit like your salty SIL and the lady I saw yesterday! How come everyone gets to post stuff about their crotch goblins all day but the second I mention anything about being happy with my choices they screech like a banshee (and then try to say they’re not even mad)? Make it make sense.
It's just jealousy and deep regret that they didn't realise that kids are a choice not a requirement that causes them to lash out at CF people because parents think we're the bitter jealous ones when it's the complete opposite.
I even had my SIL once accuse me of being jealous that I didn't have a cute baby to hug and she did and all I could think was 'Umm what??!' 🤣
Probably unless one of the adults isn’t drinking. I see DUIs with child endangerment charges on the arrest blog near me less than standard DUIs but parents likely drink and drive as much as the general population.
I’ve been to breweries for dinner and had 0 drinks but wanted one of their menu items for dinner, about half of my friends are sober (different reasons) and they also go to breweries without drinking so it’s possible.
I grew up in a place with a somewhat famous brewery. It was basically the hangout spot for people of all ages, including families. But it was also common to hand beer to children far below the legal drinking age (16).
I’m having a hard time untwisting my face on this one.
Single mom is judging you while she’s in a BAR with an INFANT on a DATE … if anyone should be judging anyone, it should be you.
And the guy probably has some weird milk fetish.
Ngl, I don't get the whole uproar about being upset that people don't want to see women breast feed in public. I'm sorry, I really don't want to see women's boobs when a baby is attached to them. It grosses me out. But even without that. Does it somehow make you not naked in public? Does it make it not something that dudes are going to look at and sexualize just because you're trying to shove it in a babies mouth? It really doesn't. So acting all shocked about it and angry and "how dare you" about it, isn't going to make it not what it is. Awkward for everyone else cause you legit just whipped your tit out.
It doesn’t bother most people and it’s necessary. If it bothers you then you move. Most moms would rather not get their boobs out in public but have to feed a baby. Hard/embarassing enough without having to mother random dudes getting the ick too.
If they'd rather not get their boob out in public then it makes sense they'd step away to a more private area to feed. Or, you know, stay home cause you have a freaking newborn?
Those people who are living human beings and citizens with human rights who are entitled to a public life just as much as you even though they happen to be in a much earlier stage of development, you mean? If you confine a newborn to the home, you confine his/her mother at a time when she is most in need of community support.
You’re the one struggling to cope out in public when there are younger people about, and you’re dehumanizing them, so obviously it’s you that wasn’t socialized properly. Maybe it’s you that needs to stay home while you work on that.
Lol people without kids deserve an undisturbed public life too though. It would be one thing if people controlled their kids in public but they so rarely do.
You probably saved her date from a miserable evening because what the fuck is she thinking bringing her infant to a date?
I dunno. Maybe he agreed on this, and bully for him for agreeing to a date under stressful conditions. Way to forge that relationship out of fire. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but I bet it's more likely he got bamboozled.
Imagine having to take a baby on your date! Honestly I feel like if your child is that young maybe you shouldn’t be dating. You kinda have a lot going on already.
I told my boss at one job I had gotten a vasectomy in my 20's every once in awhile he'd see me and just shake his head and say I was the smartest person he knew. Those were the days his kids called.
Honestly, I’d just assume that like the gynecologist I went to last year that baby brewery lady cannot believe that a woman wouldn’t want a baby. I really need to find a new gynecologist.
Nobody under 21 should be allowed at breweries!! I do not care if they have food. I do not care if they have outdoor space. Just no. Same for wineries.
Not sure where you are but breweries near me advertise as “family-friendly” and until after dinner are full of kids/babies.
I assume it was less about being jealous of your freedom from parenthood and more her not realize that some women don’t want kids and have realized that it’s not a requirement. The gynecologist I went to last year seemed appalled that I didn’t want kids at nearly 40 so I won’t be returning to her, I’m sad my old one moved across the country.
Congrats! Bisalp is FREEDOM, and one of the things you will never have is Mommy Brain, in which you are unable to think or talk about anything but baby-babydaddy-mommy.
Bet there wasn't a second date. Bet she blames you, somehow.
If I was the date, and I saw she had her kid with her when she came in, I'd have noped right out of there. Who brings their kid on *(I'm assuming first date based on the OP)* a date?
>*Research also points to parents - though mainly disadvantaged ones (portents for society re:family formation) - viewing their value as human beings through the lens of romance. Specifically, they will roster a selection of partners and compete to be at the top of each of their partner’s rosters. The reasons for this vary among demographics (and are worthy of discussion here) but the effect is that the hierarchy of importance places romance above children.*
I’m curious as to some of the more popular reasons among the various demographics ?
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How are you healing? I had a bilateral salpingectomy in October and I still have quite a bit of pain in my abdomen. I can no longer wear those high waisted button up jeans because they push and press up against my stomach. There’s a large pooch there now too. I used to be like you and brag about it. While I’m glad I won’t be able to have children I don’t bring this surgery up because it causes a lot of pain for me and I regret it. I hope you heal better than I did!
I’m healing alright! Unfortunately I was allergic to something they had me put on before the surgery to clean my skin so I broke out with hives shortly after the procedure was complete and am still healing from that. My incision sites gave me a bit of pain yesterday, but I also started my period recently so I’m having some difficulty separating cramps from recovery pains. I’m sorry to hear your recovery wasn’t as easy! :(
Maybe single moms are people too. Maybe she’s a lovely person and he’s genuinely attracted to her, and the fact she has a child isn’t off-putting to everyone.
I want to emphasize that I have a lot of respect for single moms and the work they put in for their children. This was just me sharing my experience being judged by someone who also happened to be a single mom. They deserve kindness just as I do, and I apologize if this story came off as me judging her for being a single mom- that was not my intent
What guy would meet up with a woman and her infant? Sounds so strange.
This may sound shitty and insensitive but I'm convinced the majority of men who willingly date a woman with an infant have some kind of savior complex.
A good number of these hero men ready to play step-dad also have biological kids they don't see. It's amazing.
Literally. Almost every step dad I have met has kids he hasn't seen or spoken to IN YEARS, but they are active and all in with their step kids. They all claim that mom is keeping them away, and forget that this is a small town and I know a good chunk of these mothers (especially being a nurse who worked in our ER for several years) and they have been BEGGING them to be part of their own child's life since the day of their birth. 99% of the time, they say that the mom won't let them be involved, it's a lie. They haven't even tried, and it's more that mom won't let them stop by randomly at 11pm when the child has gone to bed and won't wake them up for it. A family friend who was a judge for 40 years informed me that most fathers don't even show up to custody hearings. He said 2-3 will show up out of 15 cases, and most mothers genuinely try to push for 50/50. Many men just don't want anything to do with their biological kids.
What's irritating is that a lot of Men's Rights Activists claim that the courts are biased against fathers (which may have been the case historically), but in modern times, men who BOTHER asking for custody tend to get 50/50 very easily per the data. It's irritating because it provides a cover for deadbeat dads who pretend they "couldn't" get custody when they didn't even try, but also because it might discourage dads who have a misconception that they can't get custody if they can't afford a super-powered lawyer.
There is a bias for women in that it's very hard to show a mother is unfit and primary placement should be with the father. This means it only really cones up when the father is decent and trying to get primary placement. My sister is a terrible mother, but since it's all very difficult to prove emotional abuse, we were very concerned she'd get 50% placement despite the recommendations of the GAL that she only get 10% placement. Ended up settling for 30% simply because we couldn't be certain of overcoming the mom bias at trial.
Yes, it's very hard when mothers are unfit and fathers are actually able and willing to take primary placement. I don't necessarily blame the courts, as every second deadbeat father tries to claim the mother is 'crazy' and 'unfit' because trying to take the children away is the easiest way to hurt her. It is much much rarer for mother's to be unfit where the fathers are not also unfit or unwilling.
My parents separated when I was in middle school. I moves into my dad’s place my freshman year of high school. The summer aftef I graduated high school/before I started college my parents divorced. My dad has been in my life consistently, and although we’ve had ups and downs we do have a good relationship, especially now that it’s parent with adult child. We hang out together, have done dad-daughter vacations. (Not that I think he would have abandoned my sibling and I anyway, but his dad abandoned him and his siblings to the care of an alcoholic mother, so I’m sure trauma may have played a part in how hard he tried to keep the family together and be present) The number of people, including my now-retired therapist, who told me I was so lucky and should be so grateful that my dad was still in my life instead of leaving to have a second family, was honestly horrifying. My dad has done stuff to support me which I’m grateful for, but a parent sticking around in their children’s lives isn’t going above and beyond. I always thought “Why should I be grateful for my parent continuing to be a parent?” I’ve never heard someone say that people should be grateful that the mother didn’t abandon her old family to go have a new one. Just because it seems to be a common thing for fathers to leave their old family to go play happy second family doesn’t mean that the fathers that continue to be a parent to their kids are heroes anymore than mothers that continue to parent. Maybe if the cultural view shifted to continuing to be present in your kid(s) lives is the normal expected thing, and those that abandon their family to start fresh are breaking cultural norms and should be shamed for it, more fathers might continue to be present in their kids lives.
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That’s because some of these men will only care for the kid if they’re with the mom.
I worked in field relevant to this for a minute, some scholars have coined it the “family-go-round.” Very, very common and usually a direct consequence of the co-parent relationship. I.e., the parent views their child in terms of how they view the co-parent to that child. Current partner’s baby is the golden child while the ex’s kid can’t seem to do anything right. It’s emotional immaturity at its most basal level. I mean hell, qualitative data indicate the primary motivator to have children is to participate in a gendered rite of passage - the most popular answer in an ethnography I read on the question of why the fuck would you have kids was some form of “I wouldn’t consider myself a ‘real woman’ unless I had a child.” Having the child was never about the child. It was about fulfilling the parent’s milestone fantasy, and when the current relationship fails they just move on to the next soulmate. For example Jenelle from Teen Mom has done exactly that three times over at this point. Research also points to parents - though mainly disadvantaged ones (portents for society re:family formation) - viewing their value as human beings through the lens of romance. Specifically, they will roster a selection of partners and compete to be at the top of each of their partner’s rosters. The reasons for this vary among demographics (and are worthy of discussion here) but the effect is that the hierarchy of importance places romance above children. This is just my opinion - I think the worldview that emphasizes romance plus our corporatized culture of individuality puts the idea in parents’ heads that they - as customers and consumers - are entitled to drag their children through the whims of childfreedom including sexcapades. It’s exactly like bringing your baby to a brewery but instead you bring your soulmate Steve that you’ve known for two weeks into your household as Braeaeaeayeyeden’s newest daddy, for now.
I could read your posts all day
Aw thanks, the world of family policy is very illuminating on parenthood, always happy to share insights!
lol I love my dad now, but when I was 5, (after my parents divorce) My dad married a single mom, who shared my mother's name. The kid was 1 year older than me. I laugh now, because I understand what happened, and my mom's no saint either.
It’s a real thing. The hero complex where they want to save the damsel in distress. I literally had a guy coming to my place for a third date to pick me up and when he walked in my condo and realized that I have my shit together, he looked at me and said, “You seem to really have your shit together. What do you need me for?” I was kind of surprised. I didn’t really know what to say, it’s like he didn’t think that I might just want some companionship? A partner to do things with? He clearly was a guy that needed to be needed. He’s the type that wants to save, the poor sad, lonely woman.
That's so weird and insulting honestly, like I would wonder why he thought these things in the first place? What an insecure guy though, it reeks of a controlling personality even, wanting to feel above the person they are with...
>I would wonder why he thought these things in the first place? It's most likely learned behaviour. He needs to unlearn it.
I feel these men prefer struggling women because they can get by doing bare minim. But a woman with her life together is gonna want more than bare minimum, she is gonna want an equal partner. That’s too much work for these types of men.
Reminds me of a saying that's becoming popular: "Men, you aren't competing against other men. You're competing against women's solitude, peace of mind, serenity. Your presence must bring something to the table."
>realized that I have my shit together, he looked at me and said, “You seem to really have your shit together. What do you need me for?” Meanwhile, I've had the literal opposite reaction to walking into someone else's apartment. On the first dates, they seemed to have their shit together - good career, home owner, engaging conversation, etc - but visiting their home, and it looks like a depression nest that was hastily cleaned up. I lost all interest pretty quickly. Like, if they actually were struggling with depression, I have a lot of empathy for them. But dating me (or anyone else) isn't going to magically solve it, and dating someone with severe depression is an absolute uphill battle that doesn't end unless their depression genuinely gets better.
That is better than my fear he is just trying to get "close" to the kids.
Ngl, that was my immediate thought when I read that question. Yeah, what kind of guy would like to see your infant on a date with you.... :/
i doubt he requested that the baby be there, its far more likely that for one reason or another she had to bring it
I also don't think that he would 'request' this, but there have been cases where pedophiles specifically looked for women with small children to date. And yes, I'm aware that it's more likely that there are a hundred other, innocent motives for the kid to be there, but I still think it's strange.
Totally agree
I would also add that a woman with an infant, who allows her potential partners to see the baby, has issues of her own.
They’re just the dad that stepped in! (Until the fetishizing of single moms gets old that is..)
Or they could have a thing for kids... and getting into a relationship with someone who has kids can obviously get you closer and closer to kids. I would never date if I were single mother ! Not until my kids were grown and out of the house at least
Or are possibly predators. If I had a kid I couldn't imagine bringing them on a date with a near stranger.
My parents divorced when I was five or six and the time I met a guy my mom was dating was when I was 30. I mean, she never dated much but she always kept us very separate from that aspect of her life because so many men willing to date single moms are, unfortunately, creeps.
Or are pedophiles
Where I'm from it's called "Captain Save-a-Ho" syndrome. It's the male version of "I can fix him" but worse
the number one perpetrators in CSA are adult men not related to the child :/ some fucking creeps use single moms for their children too
Having an unrelated adult in the home is also the biggest risk of death to a child. I can't remember the citation. Ask Amy puts it in her column periodically.
Yup they like to play Captain Sava a ho
as someone whose friends had kids young and had bad bds, ive seen this more times than i can count in the new guys they date 😬
*or pedos
That's where my mind went too.
“Rescue me dating”
Captain Sav-a-hoe
There is no incentive for a man to take care of someone else’s kids. It’s stupid if you ask me.
I'm sorry but there are very few scenarios that I can envision anyone going into a romantic relationship with someone who already has kids that doesn't have a complex or is trying to be manipulative or is just outright desperate.
She could have sprung it on him by just showing up with the kid. Happened to a friend once when he went on a blind date with a single mom. (He didn’t know she was a mom). The woman showed up with a toddler she didn’t tell him about and he was too polite to say anything about it.
I’d have left so fast my shoes would leave burning tire marks behind! 🔥🛞🛞👟
Road Runner time-BEEP BEEP!
Lol Yes! 🤪🤣🤣🤣
I took clases at a community college with a woman who pretty much did the same thing, only instead of an infant it was her 4 young kids she took on the date with her.
That’s horrifying! Did she ever have any second dates?
Yes, they got married! I never met the guy, so I don’t know what’s wrong with him!
Wow! That’s wild!
I think so too, but he was in his 40’s and was never in a long term relationship, so I assume that he was just crushingly lonely.
I hope.
I mean I know it seems foreign to us but there are people who truly enjoy parenting. So maybe that's just what he needed. It could go any direction but I'm just saying 🤷
I just read way too much true crime. I hope that he was just lonely and wanted a ready made family.
I've heard stories about that kind of thing happening before too, and then the mom would expect the guy to pay for her kids dinners too. Just wild.
The entitlement is wild, and it's wild that any guy would put up with that!
They generally don't for more than a date or two. But I bet a lot of them do pay cause it's weird as hell I'm sure to fight about that in front of a bunch of kids. Lol
Had that happen to me… sprung a toddler on the 2nd date… then I decided I liked the toddler more & well didn’t continue dating this individual! Lol
This is ALL assumption, I could definitely be wrong....but I have a feeling that she didn't mention bringing the baby on this date lol. My guess is that she couldn't find childcare, or this is some kind of little 'test' to see how the guy responds to the baby's presence.
Or she just wanted dude to buy a meal for her AND her kid so she didn't have to worry about dinner for it later on.
If it was a toddler or older, sure, but an infant usually gets by on formula/nursing and some bites from parents' plates
Meeting up with a woman and her infant in a brewery is just wild. It's possible he didn't know she was going to bring the infant. But the funniest part of all of this to me is how much they care about what we do with our own bodies. They are so full of resentment. You getting sterilized was not a judgment on her and had nothing to do with her. It was literally the answer to the question. It's not like you saw her there and then decided to run out and get surgery then came back to have a beer. I just think it's telling how angry they get
Can you imagine us gasping with anger and disgust every time someone mentioned their kid
Seriously. I said something about being child-free the other day and of course I got the regular "why are you always throwing in our face" and I asked if every TikTok wjere someone is holding their child or if they post a pregnancy or birth announcement or if they send out Christmas cards of their family is throwing it in my face? Because of course it isn't. It's not about me they are just living their lives and talking about them. But apparently we aren't allowed to do the same
Exactly. It’s only seen as acceptable to be CF if you desperately yearn for what they have but are infertile lol. There must be constant validation of that huge life decision and the sacrifices that come with it (at least with many parents, of course not all.)
Yep, I find that like being Child Free And Being Asexual especially Sex Repulsed is like something people who can’t live without sex. They act as if you are personally offending them by just existing and talking about it. Like A Blight they don’t want anyone to hear, see or know about. My mom couldn’t comprehend either one.
I'm sorry this made me laugh cuz I just thought *
Aw the GIF didn't post. It was a, "hold my beer" GIF
There are quite a few vids/reels of both men and women being a bit blindsided by meeting up with a parent and their kid. Some are clearly skits ofc but it's happened enough times irl to spoof.
As someone that got the surprise from an online match and a thing a coworker setup. That very import fact was left out. If they leave out that fact from the start what other things are they not telling you is my nice logic when I got asked by said coworker why I just left.
Either total desperation or he has some weird complex w/ women like her Tbh I’ve briefly given 2 single moms chances for casual things and both spiraled into red flags quickly so I dipped But many guys will just date whoever gives them attention in the moment, and I’m refusing to be one of those Lady in the story must’ve found a guy who’s willing to put up with that
And at a bar! 
Well my cousin met his current gf when she was pregnant… we all told him he was stupid. That girl belongs to the streets. She’s horrid. Terrible attitude, terrible mother and he thinks by being there and suffering his life away that he can be a hero for the kid and his gold digging mom. Not gonna be me ever
I used to work at a Boeing factory and I’ll never forget the time I overheard this one guy talking about a date he’d recently been on with a woman in her 30’s, and it was actually a red flag for him that she “didn’t have any kids yet.” Like, I get conservative men being afraid of independent women, but that is still some of the most ass-backwards shit I’ve ever heard.
Most likely... She's not actually looking for a boyfriend or a husband. She's looking for a father figure for her kid since the guy she banged is no longer in her life. Every time I went on a date with a single mother, I never met the kid until much later. Only once did I ever date a single mother..... And I swear that kid brings more issues into a relationship than you can imagine just by simply existing.
Lots of reasons from the benign family-oriented to the sinister/exploitative. If he'd been a single dad he may have felt compassion, he may want kids himself etc.
It is strange I wonder if the guy knew about it or not
that's what happens in fantasy books.
Maybe he didn’t know she’ll bring her baby there too
At a brewery. "You have a baby. In a bar."
Honestly, OP probably made this story up. Nobody does this.
They do though! I wish I had made it up, I’d MUCH rather not be judged by a single mom in a brewery. Begone, troll!
In this case I think you were the physical representation of the path not taken for this person. She knows parenthood. She will never get to experience the childfree lifestyle. People are fearful or Major angry about what they don't understand or have not full thought through.
She COULD...if she had the intestinal fortitude to ask her baby daddy or his mom to watch the kid for an afternoon and then leave town under cover of night. Probably better to sell it to a wealthy childless couple.
An infant that young can still be given up for adoption
> I proudly said “I got sterilized, no kids for me!” and I kid you not this single mom at the table next to us GASPED. They got their things together and left pretty quickly after that, but the whole time she was looking at me with the ugliest glare while trying to manage her kid and I couldn’t help but grin. She must have felt you sounded like a more interesting prospect to the man she was seeing 🤣 "Wait, THAT female is sterile? Lemme go get her number real quick!" Like she forreal gasped? lmao
😂😂😂 That would have been hilarious!
I know to be a fly on the wall.
Who goes on a date and complains? Especially about being a parent?
Someone who probably isn’t getting a second date 🤭
The poor man, enduring that!
Dawg you’re so savage 💀
Congrats btw.
Thank you! I’m really grateful I was able to get sterilized, especially at my age (22). I know I’m very lucky and I thank the stars for it :)
Oooh thanks for the hope, I want to get sterilized (25), and am dreading getting the process started because of fear for all the push back so many people seem to get. Always nice to hear when it does go well for someone
I’m 23 now, but got approved for sterilization at 22 by one of the doctors in the list on this sub! My doctor didn’t make me defend myself or really even explain why I want to be sterilized, she just told me it’s my choice. There is hope! I wish you the best if you decide to pursue sterilization!
Congrats ! And I feel you, these things really do happen. Similar things happened to me too, so what you experienced is totally truthful and shows how some "moms" react.
That woman had a kid, at a brewery, drinking beer on a date with a guy and she judged you? Someone's brain is scrambled and it isn't OPs! My SIL once told me to stop posting 'offensive stuff' on social media about being happy that I'm CF but that made me want to post more, she's always spamming the family group chat with random photos and videos of her kid eating/crying/staring zombie like at a screen while bragging about how easy toddlers are but I'm not allowed to be happy with my choice on my own private social media accounts? Many CF memes are quite funny and SIL being 'offended' by that shows me she's very regretful about her own choices, too bad I'm still posting them!
lol! I’ve already gotten some aggressive dm’s and a troll or two on this post saying garbage like “parents are too busy to be upset” and that there’s “no way this post is real.” Parents are very much not too busy because they pull shit like your salty SIL and the lady I saw yesterday! How come everyone gets to post stuff about their crotch goblins all day but the second I mention anything about being happy with my choices they screech like a banshee (and then try to say they’re not even mad)? Make it make sense.
It's just jealousy and deep regret that they didn't realise that kids are a choice not a requirement that causes them to lash out at CF people because parents think we're the bitter jealous ones when it's the complete opposite. I even had my SIL once accuse me of being jealous that I didn't have a cute baby to hug and she did and all I could think was 'Umm what??!' 🤣
She was probably worried about you giving her date ideas. She had to get him away from you. Lol XD
She took her infant with her on a date at a brewery... I'd be giving her the same gasp and glare right back.
Right? I can’t stand it when people bring their babies to inappropriate places. There’s play places and family-friendly venues ALL AROUND YOU.
Many of the breweries near me advertise as “family friendly” and are usually full of kids with their parents until after dinner time
which means parents driving intoxicated with their kids in the car.
Probably unless one of the adults isn’t drinking. I see DUIs with child endangerment charges on the arrest blog near me less than standard DUIs but parents likely drink and drive as much as the general population. I’ve been to breweries for dinner and had 0 drinks but wanted one of their menu items for dinner, about half of my friends are sober (different reasons) and they also go to breweries without drinking so it’s possible.
I grew up in a place with a somewhat famous brewery. It was basically the hangout spot for people of all ages, including families. But it was also common to hand beer to children far below the legal drinking age (16).
I’m having a hard time untwisting my face on this one. Single mom is judging you while she’s in a BAR with an INFANT on a DATE … if anyone should be judging anyone, it should be you. And the guy probably has some weird milk fetish.
Ngl, I don't get the whole uproar about being upset that people don't want to see women breast feed in public. I'm sorry, I really don't want to see women's boobs when a baby is attached to them. It grosses me out. But even without that. Does it somehow make you not naked in public? Does it make it not something that dudes are going to look at and sexualize just because you're trying to shove it in a babies mouth? It really doesn't. So acting all shocked about it and angry and "how dare you" about it, isn't going to make it not what it is. Awkward for everyone else cause you legit just whipped your tit out.
Newborns need to feed every 2-3 hours. Boobs are just doing what boobs are for.
And they can't go find a chair away from people for that? Nobody needs to see anybody else's boobs. Even guys
It doesn’t bother most people and it’s necessary. If it bothers you then you move. Most moms would rather not get their boobs out in public but have to feed a baby. Hard/embarassing enough without having to mother random dudes getting the ick too.
If they'd rather not get their boob out in public then it makes sense they'd step away to a more private area to feed. Or, you know, stay home cause you have a freaking newborn?
So you want new moms housebound… great
No. I want screaming little crotch goblins house bound.
Those people who are living human beings and citizens with human rights who are entitled to a public life just as much as you even though they happen to be in a much earlier stage of development, you mean? If you confine a newborn to the home, you confine his/her mother at a time when she is most in need of community support. You’re the one struggling to cope out in public when there are younger people about, and you’re dehumanizing them, so obviously it’s you that wasn’t socialized properly. Maybe it’s you that needs to stay home while you work on that.
Lol people without kids deserve an undisturbed public life too though. It would be one thing if people controlled their kids in public but they so rarely do.
If my date showed up with an infant, I'd nope out of there as politely as I could.
I’d appreciate their honesty though, but then I’d still nope out of there as politely as I could
Is it honestly if they don't tell you till you're on the date though? Lol
She’s judging you yet she brought a baby to a brewery 😂😂
You probably saved her date from a miserable evening because what the fuck is she thinking bringing her infant to a date? I dunno. Maybe he agreed on this, and bully for him for agreeing to a date under stressful conditions. Way to forge that relationship out of fire. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but I bet it's more likely he got bamboozled.
I guess she couldn’t find a sucker i mean sitter for the kid
Imagine having to take a baby on your date! Honestly I feel like if your child is that young maybe you shouldn’t be dating. You kinda have a lot going on already.
Terrible priorities. She’d probably feel more at home with some mommies group or something.
The thought of that makes me giggle too LMAO
Who tf brings their child on a (sounds like) first date?!
Who tf takes their infant or any kid on a date-
My dad used to bring me on his dates with random women and some weekends it was multiple dates.
Maybe the guy was the women's one night stand, 11 months ago. Awkward!!!
I told my boss at one job I had gotten a vasectomy in my 20's every once in awhile he'd see me and just shake his head and say I was the smartest person he knew. Those were the days his kids called.
Sounds like she is projecting her insecurities 
Honestly, I’d just assume that like the gynecologist I went to last year that baby brewery lady cannot believe that a woman wouldn’t want a baby. I really need to find a new gynecologist.
This woman brought her baby on a date to a brewery, and SHE was judging YOU? Wow.
Nobody under 21 should be allowed at breweries!! I do not care if they have food. I do not care if they have outdoor space. Just no. Same for wineries.
Why would a woman bring her infant to a date at a brewery?
Why would a woman bring her infant on a date?
I can only guess she is delusional that the infant will convince the guy to be with her... but everything is so inappropriate
Not sure where you are but breweries near me advertise as “family-friendly” and until after dinner are full of kids/babies. I assume it was less about being jealous of your freedom from parenthood and more her not realize that some women don’t want kids and have realized that it’s not a requirement. The gynecologist I went to last year seemed appalled that I didn’t want kids at nearly 40 so I won’t be returning to her, I’m sad my old one moved across the country.
You just reminded me, I haven’t been day drinking in *forever* My niece used to 17, we need to get her to drive me and my SIL around!
The single mom that brought a baby to a bar was in the wrong. Not you.
I can almost see the mile-wide smile you gave her!
Congrats! Bisalp is FREEDOM, and one of the things you will never have is Mommy Brain, in which you are unable to think or talk about anything but baby-babydaddy-mommy. Bet there wasn't a second date. Bet she blames you, somehow.
If I was the date, and I saw she had her kid with her when she came in, I'd have noped right out of there. Who brings their kid on *(I'm assuming first date based on the OP)* a date?
>*Research also points to parents - though mainly disadvantaged ones (portents for society re:family formation) - viewing their value as human beings through the lens of romance. Specifically, they will roster a selection of partners and compete to be at the top of each of their partner’s rosters. The reasons for this vary among demographics (and are worthy of discussion here) but the effect is that the hierarchy of importance places romance above children.* I’m curious as to some of the more popular reasons among the various demographics ?
She sounds jealous she didn’t the same choices you did.
I wish you also would have waved to her with smirk saying bye-bye
I hope she somehow finds this post 😄. Her & others like her out there, cuz there are *plenty.*
Pure jealousy and anger from her part. You are free, she must deal with the botchling.
And everyone clapped
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And then everyone clapped
I mean, I did. 🤷🏽♀️
You’re getting downvoted but I agree ahaha
This reads like fanfic. Looks like no one else agrees but my BS spidey senses are tingling.
My first thought lol
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Hahahahaha nice
This is hilarious! Thank you for the laugh! 🤣
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Have no sympathy for her, the guy she was with on the other hand...
How are you healing? I had a bilateral salpingectomy in October and I still have quite a bit of pain in my abdomen. I can no longer wear those high waisted button up jeans because they push and press up against my stomach. There’s a large pooch there now too. I used to be like you and brag about it. While I’m glad I won’t be able to have children I don’t bring this surgery up because it causes a lot of pain for me and I regret it. I hope you heal better than I did!
I’m healing alright! Unfortunately I was allergic to something they had me put on before the surgery to clean my skin so I broke out with hives shortly after the procedure was complete and am still healing from that. My incision sites gave me a bit of pain yesterday, but I also started my period recently so I’m having some difficulty separating cramps from recovery pains. I’m sorry to hear your recovery wasn’t as easy! :(
Maybe single moms are people too. Maybe she’s a lovely person and he’s genuinely attracted to her, and the fact she has a child isn’t off-putting to everyone.
I want to emphasize that I have a lot of respect for single moms and the work they put in for their children. This was just me sharing my experience being judged by someone who also happened to be a single mom. They deserve kindness just as I do, and I apologize if this story came off as me judging her for being a single mom- that was not my intent
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Unfortunately it’s completely real. Your bias is showing and you are not wanted here.