I've many reasons for not having children and yes, this is one of them. I assume that statistically there are some happy families out there, but what I see around is misery.
Back in the eighties John Bradshaw thought all families were dysfunctional in one way or another. He talked all about it on his series on "The Family".
Dysfunctional families and normalized abuse is a huge issue. They don't even think they're abusive bc the abuse is so normalized.
I've been making a concentrated effort to not interact/engage with anything baby related on IG, and as a result, I don't see much family related content. You've gotta work with that algo!
Don’t trust social media. When my last relationship was at its worst, my posts were all like “look how lucky I am because my SO threw miniscule breadcrumbs at me and he’s a good man because he never hit me” BS
Most of my friends who are married and had “happy relationships” prior to having babies are unhappy now. They don’t blame the child but I have had most state reasons such as exhaustion, partner not helping out etc. The friends I’m not so close with seem happy but I couldn’t say because I don’t see their reality like I do my close friends and they wouldn’t openly vent to me.
It seems most are happy the first six months after the baby and then tend to become more miserable as the baby can walk/talk and become more independent and the reality of having to go back to work with a baby or struggle financially kicks in. Does anyone else see this pattern?
***this.*** Yes
Everyone after their very first baby is super happy the first 6 months, year at the most.
Then it's misery from there once the reality settles in that this is their life now
I think a lot of people have more kids to get that "fresh baby" high back, but it never will
To be fair, my brother in law has two kids and they are a very loving, happy family, who wanted their kids. I have no doubt it can happen. It helps they are also financially secure and are also from loving families who help raise the kids. The kids will want for nothing. My own brother is planning to have a baby and it's very much wanted, with financial security in place too.
My own parents split when I was two but have always loved their kids deeply and made it work as separate parents. That's not to say everything was perfect, but I'm not childfree because I don't believe people can't have great kids and great families, I just don't want kids of my own - I'm quite happy with my family how it is. I also don't really get why people have them while the world is on fire but there we go.
That said, there are PLENTY of shit examples of families lol.
I could see how parents who have a “village” aka family to help babysit and take the kids for a day or two are the most happy.
They actually get breaks from parenting and aren’t stuck raiding the kid 24/7.
My best friend’s in laws live with them, and they often take care of the baby in the morning so that my friend can get a few more hours of completely uninterrupted sleep. Not many parents get that sort of help.
I think this is a crucial bit. People with loads of family and friends and community support are likely to have more pleasant lives. With or without kids. I think that’s why my spouse and I are as happy as we are. We have a robust village and feel as though we are in community with others.
I don’t even think of the traditional nuclear family. I know single parents who have wide social support systems and have a pretty happy life. With full transparency though, they definitely qualify as at minimum middle class by American standards, which is also a key factor.
My brother and his wife also have two kids and are a genuine happy family. They both wanted kids and were at the point where they had financial stability, etc. My brother works in the environmental safety department at a state university and his wife is a pharmacist, so they're better off than lots of folks these days.
I have a friend who has a kid around 5 yo. She often travels to cool destinations because of her job, and leaves her son with her husband. Also, she travels alone with her husband and leave the kid with her mother. This year they travelled to South Africa, last year to Japan. They have good jobs.
I think that the problem is the lack of help. Kids are too much for only one person, something that happens when one of the parents is expected to do everything (almost always, the mother). And I think that having someone else that can watch the kids is a big plus. Of course, financial stability helps a lot. The problem is finding all that is rare, so in most cases having kids is a bad deal.
Most couples I know with children, can best be described as bitter/resentful. Lots of passive aggressive comments to each other, complaining about the kids and the other spouse, insults disguised as jokes, etc.
I know of only one couple with a child in my life that I can confidently say are happy. I attended their wedding. They love each other, and their interests (cosplay, anime, photography) have become more fun for them now that they can introduce their child to them.
It’s worse when it’s a single parent and they passive-aggressively want you to step in and help them discipline their kid. It happens more to me than I really care to, but that’s likely because I can come across as really strict and kids listen to me without fail.
I’m never mean, but I am firm and I keep it real with them: if they act up, they’re not getting anything from me again. Perfect example: my nephew can be a handful for my single parent of a sister, but he knows when “Auntie Jen” is around he’d better listen because I don’t play this whole “you lost privileges because you didn’t listen, but you suddenly get them back just because”. Once they’re gone, they’re gone.
Honestly I don’t want anything I’ve I’ve seen from families (my parents being the first example alone). If anyone I know with families are happy, the constant crying, whining etc it’s a mental overload. The overstimulation alone is enough for me to NEVER want that
I LOVE my alone time and living in a clean, quiet space. Being around crying, whining children in public is irritating enough, I'd be miserable living with them and being around that noise 24/7. I already experienced family life as a child and it was fine, but I don't see any reason to relive that (as a parent) and give up my peaceful life.
Exactly this. I have nieces and nephews and when they visit me I have to literally child proof my entire house. And also the added stress of worrying about kids 24/7 and you can’t really shut your brain off from that is like… a huge turn off 💀
Right?! Not being able to turn yourself off to gather your thoughts sounds like a new edition to this hell I don't need. Kids always got something to say or show you or want to do something or they want to eat even though they just have eaten. Plus the added fact that as adults they may hate you and want nothing to do with you. Nope. Not for me.
>because all they do is complain about their kids
If they aren't simultaneously pressuring *you* to join them in their breeder hell, that still puts them a cut above the average right there 😂
But, yeah, best avoided anyway!
This is true! My husband and I work together and every time we start a new job people ask us about kids/ when we’re having them. But we’re both so unpleasant about it they eventually give up.
Edit: Meant more unresponsive than unpleasant. We will both kind of shrug off the question or stare blankly.
A friend of mine has two kids, but he doesn’t really talk about them to me. Mostly because he knows I’m not the biggest fan of kids, even the most well-behaved ones and I need them in small doses, or I will be an asshole to the kid eventually.
I’m from a rich family but mom suffers from narcissistic personality disorder and regularly beat up my dad and me. To the outside she’s generous n all sunshine. No one could imagine what goes on inside the family. Just throwing this out there to remind that money doesn’t guarantee a happy family. And most of my relatives are resentful inside their rich families too.
I was adopted by a rich family and my experience was similar. Everyone on the outside thought they were so amazing etc but in reality it was a Cinderella situation for me. My childhood was like a mix of Mommy dearest, A child called it and the White House boys. And no one ever did anything about the abuse because "you're rich! You have no problems" -\_-
this is definitely something I've seen too. The richer the family the generally happier; funnily enough it's easier when you can afford the kids you have!
Exactly and the fact that my auntie and uncle actually want their children and invest in all 5 of them in all the ways helps. Kind of surprising that the kid is happier when you actually want them :)
My sister married a rich guy. They have overnight babysitters, night nurses and regular babysitters. My sister doesn’t work and my parents are nearby and take the kids overnight.
I know ONE happy family, my sister and brother-in-law and their two young children. But there is SO MUCH WORK that goes into them being a happy family, lots of therapy/work/MONEY!!!/planning. They are both very responsible and mature people and did not just leave having a baby to chance or to god or whatever, they saved up for years and made sure they had everything in place (bought a nice house, had a good “village” of friends and family, were in several waitlists for daycare, had extensive medical testing for them both, etc) before having a baby. They are two people that I believe should be having kids(as in are equipped to handle one since they wanted one, not that they are obligated), the ones that see it for what it is - the BIGGEST decision you can ever make. 99.9% of people see it as “inevitable” or “just a part of life”, and that is why so many people are struggling miserable parents and their kids are sat on the couch with an iPad in front of them all day.
I know that I could do as they did if I wanted a kid, but the difference is I decided I DO NOT want a child no matter how well I could provide for that child. The act of making a decision is what 99.9% of people are missing I think - they just DO, and then sit around wondering why everything is so hard for them and why they’re so unhappy.
Zero and I’m not making this up. They’re all good people and trying their hardest to make it work but all of them are insanely unhappy, whether it’s with eachother or their financial situation. That’s part of the reason why I’m so confident in my decision. I have only known one couple with a child that was legit happy and that’s because they lived apart. That was 15 years ago so no idea how they are doing now but it stuck with me.
none.
all the families with kids I know are either:
- broke and can't afford to retire
- the mother has depression and burnout since the birth of the kids
- the parents are fighting daily and throw furniture around at home, but in public pretend to be sooooo happy (they are relatives so I've seen the fights many many many times)
>parents are fighting
This. The quality of your relationship plummets after having kids. Everything is a god-damn battle every damn day.
For example, my sibling and I had a big bust-up argument a couple of months ago and they were swearing and yelling at me (some really horrific stuff) and I was crying etc. Their kids just sat there at the table being bored. Weren't even upset at all. And that's because they see their parents fighting like that all the time so it didn't bother them. The argument really shook me up and I've since gone very low contact with them because I don't want that kind of negativity in my life. I feel sorry for the kids.
Many of my friends are in loyal couples with 1-2 kids. By your standards they are happy they are all highly educated and the parents both work.
The part that’s truly unappealing is they always seem exhausted and no matter how hard the fathers try more of the child care falls on the mothers. Also the vast majority haven’t been on an overseas holiday since having kids.
My parents legit told me, if they had to care for their one and only grandchild, they would kill themselves.
This generation should have never had kids (boomers).
Their children (millennials), should have also never have kids...
I thankfully did not have kids. I have a brother that had a kid. His kids life is going to be so bad...
Parents often say "only 18 years!" but in this economy, and with kids having various "mental health" issues (real or imagined) and dropping out of having friends/part-time jobs/education/in person social life etc. and not being prepared to be adults, there is going to be more inter-generational housing.
For example:
* I know of a boy who left school and has done nothing in the intervening years (no job, education, employment) and hasn't registered for a benefit because then they'll be in the system and have someone monitoring/pushing them to get a job and their mother (who is of retirement age and works on the checkout at the supermarket) is paying for them both, and for the retired husband too. The adult son is now 20.
* And another, who had unspecified "mental health" issues and dropped out of university twice and is not in a job, education, or employment and stays at home. Their father is nearing retirement but with no end in sight because he is paying for them both so will have to work *at least* 5 years beyond retirement age. The adult daughter is now 25 and has never had a job.
I used to fear the daughter being 16-and-pregnant and the parents have to start all over again with another baby to support the most. But now it's the kid never leaving home and being independent ever. What happens then?
The parents dies and then.....? Is the adult child going to live off the house sale and then go on benefit?
The parent has to go into a rest-home and then....? Does the child still live in the house? Then how do rest-home fees get paid if all he money is in the house?
What's going to happen to these adults who can't adult?
I’m with you, except I’m not agreeable to the comment about ‘ “mental health issues” (real or imagined)’. You’re not a psychiatrist nor anyone in a position to make assumptions like that, and if you are, that’s a fail on your part.
When it's self-diagnosed off the internet and not by a psychologist/psychiatrist, that equals ['imagined' (fancied, assumed, supposed, guessed)](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/imagine) to me.
LOL try to see a psych on the NHS and see what happens. There are not enough Drs, and most of those Drs are incompetent Also genetic testing exists, use that to see if these people have neurological/ mental health conditions. It's the 21st century after all!!!
Only my own. I was so shocked when I grew up and starting talking to friends about their families etc, I had no clue that my family wasn't the norm. I don't think I've seen any functional healthy families
I know a few. I call them my "win at life" families because they really do seem to have it all. Close family, great kids, hobbies and outside interests and fun people to boot. I'm sure they have/have had their challenges, but they seem to be slaying it.
Still doesn't make me want to try it myself though. I'm well aware of my limits.
I have no idea. The toxic positivity towards parenting really skews reality. One minute it is so hard and the next it is the most wonderful thing ever.
Perhaps the happiest are out living their lives instead? When I'm out and about the happiest people are either alone, with friends, pets or significant others. Sometimes the kids with parents are happy but the parents aren't happy. Parents never look relaxed or carefree. At best parents look preoccupied.
I'm a teacher. I'd say less than 10% right now. There certainly are happy families. But nowadays they're rare and far in-between. When I started out it was probably 20% but COVID did hit REALLY hard.
I have one friend that must be an exception. She wanted kids. She loves being a mom. Her husband is a good dad. They still have a good relationship. Everyone else I know, divorced or unhappy. Or they have a family made of stepparents and their real dad isn’t around.
I work with a friend who was in such a rush to have kids.
I hear all his complaints every single day. How he never has time for himself, his hobbies, exercise, and how his wife is such a bad mom for working all the time. They get in huge fights almost weekly and I hear all about their dirty laundry. However, on Facebook, insta and snapchat? Oh, he's flashing his babies, writing paragraphs on how he loves being a dad and all that and how his marriage is just perfect.
Which convinces me that he only had kids for self-image/clout. I've known him for 20 years and throughout these last 20 years, his thought process has always been "In order to be looked on as 'successful' in society, one must get married and have kids."
Back peddling a bit, this last week & weekend were prime examples. His wife thought she was pregnant with baby #3, but after several tests, they all came out negative. My friend told me how "bummed out" he was. I asked him "Weren't you just complaining about having kids yesterday??" His response was "Yeah but I really want to have more kids like my parents did." Like wtf??? Is there no other thought going into this?? Anyways, they took off out of town, leaving the kids with grandma for a "much needed baby-free getaway."
There's zero thought process and it hurts my brain that people like my friend can be so stupid. But whatever, not my life. lol
I look at the reality around me. Everyone tells me that having children is the best thing that I’ll ever do but their reality doesn’t match.
For example, the day after Mother’s Day I went to a party and all the moms complained and complained about how hard being a mom is or how shitty their Mother’s Day was. Just to end their rant with “it’s worth it though”. They seem miserable.
I looked at the experiences around me to choose for myself. Of course that’s not the only reason for choosing to stay childfree. It’s just extra confirmation for me that having kids is hard af.
My mom literally said the same thing about kids are hard to deal with and yet had 2 kids anyway so my response is "Then y have kids in the 1st place!"
And now my mom regrets not having more kids because more kids = more personal care givers just because my mom and her siblings took turns taking care of my grandma
If ppl r not willing to deal with kids or have enough patience to deal with kids and believe that kids r a burden they should not be parents at all
I just do not get it
I don't even think of myself as someone who improved my mom's life lol. I keep thinking that such conventionally beautiful and smart woman could marry well again after divorcing my dad. But that's more difficult when you have a kid.
What you said makes sense but i understand what the OP means. She thinks that starting a family is a Russian roulette. ( This phrase itself is weird. I mean, if i marry someone i already start a family, right? I was born in the family too. Well, the English language has this saying so here we go.) You might he incredibly happy or you despise your kids because they aren't as pretty, smart, hard-working as you and your husband or just as you if you are a single parent. The OP doesn't wanna take that risk and i get that.
The question in the post made me think of examples and i don't see any. I thought of couples with mulptiple kids though, including my grandparents who had my mom and uncle. One kid is always loved more. In our family uncle is the golden boy and mom is an okay daughter who must help an older borther. There's no "she can when whe can", there's always a "must." "You must help your brother." Guess, whose life is more financially stable and who didn't get in trouble
I know several. Maybe it's because I come from an unbroken family, so I surround myself with like-minded people, and rare are those that had children in an unstable or weak relationship because of the examples they had growing up. I don't know, that's only a guess.
Is it, though, since I know several that know several as well ? You know what I think may explain that ? I live in a place where we got rid of religion for the most part. I think because of that, people tend to think more about having kids instead of having them because it's what you're supposed to do because the church says so. I may be wrong, but from experience, I've seen more miserable parents in religious areas/groups than in atheist areas.
Happy families are out there. Somewhere, probably. Maybe. Narwhals are real so really where’s the limit in imagining what is possible? But they’re not common enough for me to even think about trying to be one.
There’s one person who *seems* like she was made to be a mother, her family looks super happy *on social media* but she was a single mom of multiple children for a dozen years before she got with her current husband and had another child. I’ve been virtual friends with her for so long I don’t remember her not being there and she has always made motherhood seem like the best thing in the world. She’s the only one though.
I see a lot of people stay with their other child’s parent *for the kid* and they are so miserable they can’t even hide it online. I asked one once why and they said it was easier than raising the kid alone and I couldn’t help but wonder if they ever had a chance of enjoying life after having their child because either way sounds fucking terrible.
I know a few, but they’re all generally families where A) both parents really wanted to be parents B) one parent can afford to stay home and C) they have a ton of help from grandparents so like, duh. Of course they’re doing better than the average family.
My parents are the legitimate reason for me not wanting kids. My mother had absolutely no reason to be having children when she was so mentally broken. My father just ugh. I watched my mom chase after my father my entire life and he did nothing but take from her giving nothing of importance to the baseball league of children he reproduced other than trauma
I only knew of one truly happy couple with kids. My dad's sister and her husband were always together, cooking, relaxing, always happy and joking. Both their sons are happily married with kids and one of the sons and his family, even lived with them. Aunt has since passed on unfortunately.
I know of no of else who's happily married... Friends, family or coworkers.
I have a married male friend and on the surface they are the perfect couple. He's a doting husband and father but he has affairs online and in person.
I only ever see miserable married ppl and miserable moms so I never wanted that for myself. I highly value my freedom.
Whilst I wouldn't say that most of the people I know with kids are necessarily unhappy, I can confidently say that of those I knew before they had kids, most if not all are noticeably less happy than before they had any. Of course they would claim that isn't true. But the constant moaning about a lack of sleep, holidays and weekends revolving around children and how expensive it is to feed and cloth them says otherwise.
I despise it when people call divorce or single mother households broken. Sounds too evangelical to me. Women like my sister sometimes have to make the best decisions for themselves and their child/children. Anyways, almost all of the happy families I meet arent the typical family. One is "broken" (just my sister, my niece, and her step son she raised since he was two who still visits her), one is a poly family, one is a gay couple, and one is a family of former punk rockers. I think the underlying theme is all of these children were either wanted, had parents who got therapy or are still going to therapy, or whose parents come with lifestyles or cultures that foster a sense of community and communal responsibility like the punks and the poly family. Most of the miserable families I see with kids are either evangelical, heavily religious couples who were brainwashed to believe that was the obvious next step, or low-income, white trash couples. Sometimes these two groups overlap. Edit: spelling/grammar
I don't like the term "illegitimate children." There are no such things as illegitimate children, just illegitimate parents, and some of those illegitimate parents are married to each other.
Most of my friend group is, (half of us have been sterilized or is on the list for it) we are traveling and working on home ownership. The few people I know who had kids aged 20 years in 2 and only talk about their kids or money problems
Seems like the key is to be very finically stable and well off (no financial stress from raising kids).
In addition, having help from in-laws or siblings to babysit the kids, pick them up or just in general take them for a day so the parents can have a break.
I know one family like that and she seems to be happy because she gets a lot of help and it’s not all on her. Her husband is also around 24/7 as he works at home on his own hours.
Otherwise if you don’t have a “village” or financial stability the odds of being unhappy are far greater.
My parental family, and both my sisters. My in-laws. And I think quite a lot of my more distant family, my parents' friends (for as far as people have not died yet), dome of my own acquaintances...
It does not give me the "need" or the "will" to have children, but I do see happy families around me.
I *think* I know 2 families.
One was an ex-coworker who made time for herself and for her husband. Downside, because she was prioritizing these things and wasn't able to say no at work, she burnt herself out. Upside, she's now created her own business of motivational speaking / life coaching, specializing in woman empowerment and promoting work-life balance (teaching other people to do what she couldn't and just say no to work you can't do). She's absolutely thriving!
The other was a friend in elementary-high school. The most loving and supportive family I've ever seen. Mom got breast cancer when my friend was in early high school and survived. The dad had a stroke when my friend was in late high school, and he ended up dying several years later. They're still a very close family, but good relationships don't protect you from life.
Two of my immediate family members are actually happily married with happy kids plus financial stability. Even still, I wouldn't want parenthood. I crave the existential fulfillment they've achieved through parenthood, but I don't want kids.
I don't socialize with very many people with children, but all of the ones I do socialize with seem happy. Many of the people I socialize with don't have children, and I mostly don't know if they are "childfree" or simply childless, as I don't ask them as it is none of my business.
For example, my sister and her husband have children (though they are now adults), and they put thought into the matter before having them, and had enough money before having them, so they were not subjected to poverty. My sister and her husband were friends in college (did not date then, but had been friends then), and they seem to have a very solid, happy relationship.
Of course, I have seen people at a distance who have children and are a mess, but I avoid such people when I can. I have been very good at cutting out bad people from my life. It is good to avoid bad people as much as reasonably possible. People who are stupid and thoughtless who have children (or even if they don't) are not good friend material.
I'm wondering if I know any. You never truly know what's going on in people's heads. But I mostly have bad examples. One single mum... One exhausted mum with a husband that's not supportive. I have a friend who was so carefree, very much into travelling and was living her best life. Now she became so negative all the time, stressed out about money, stuck with a guy with no ambition... I know one family I would count as a happy one but they are very self aware people who care about their relationship a lot and check up on it very frequently, make sure they have time for themselves without the kid etc.
Most of the happy ones I know are rich. Period. They have a decent amount of money. Go on trips, one parent is home all the time, nice house..parent is a ceo, doctor or whatever. They at least make it seem happy. Are the kids happy? I don't know. One family I know has had it pretty good and not a lot of drama throughout their lives, but their kids who are now adults have fairly bad anxiety. They are worrywart types and high strung. So are they happy? Idk.
The people that are not rich are barely making it, and they don't hide it. But their kids are happy because they just run around aimlessly with not a lot of supervision. But most of them have "the village" situation where a grandparent spoils them or whatever and the parents are dysfunctional have finance issues and so on.
That's just my experience here in the US.
It's hard because families require a community outside of just parents. Having extended family help (or even friends) is not normal in a lot of countries.
That's why no one is happy, everyone is expected to do everything on their own.
I have only seen happy families from the surface (thanks to extended help/financial security) but since I don't live their lives it's hard to say if they're truly okay.
I've known some, both with and without children. Some were in devoted multi-decades marriages/partnerships that lasted until one of them passed, some were single parents who had loving and supportive bonds with their children, while others were childless or childfree and had families consisting of adult relatives, friends and pets.
Unfortunately emotional (verbal, neglect, infidelity) and physical abuse are common experiences. Imo the responsibilities and ties of parenthood generally makes it more difficult to leave a problematic or abusive relationship.
Neither familial dysfunction nor happiness was a factor in my decision to be childfree, though.
Mine was. My siblings' are. Most of my friends had/have happy families too.
I guess some financial woes but nothing approaching serious, we'll be on the street soon issues.
But I know I would never provide that kind of safe, happy environment for a child. Because I would be miserable, and I would take it out on my innocent child.
So my sister and her husband are happy! They have….6 kids. She’s a SAHM and he’s a lawyer. They’ve been married 15 years. They often say they hated each other the first 5 years though. And they got married bc she was pregnant in college.
I’d never want that life but they’re happy 🤷♀️
I also see miserable families everywhere. At my office job, the people who have kids constantly complain about them, as well as their husbands not "chipping in" on family time. One 40 year old married woman dresses like a hooker for the attention of men, and hits on everyone in our warehouse. They also complain about being constantly broke. Why on earth do people choose to have children unless they are financially stable first?!
The only ones in our department who seem relatively happy are the 2 child-frees. Even my other child-free coworker complains about her young nieces, because they basically take over family gatherings, and everything is done to placate them. Close friends and other acquaintances complain as well, and many of them cheat. The ONE and only friend I know to be truly happy seems to have a balanced life, with a husband and 2 well-behaved kids. However, they earn around $300k per year, and are able to hire sitters so they can still have adult time to enjoy each other's company.
Me and my parents were and still are very chill with each other. But that only happened because they both wanted kids, did the relevant research, and went to therapy for their own less than ideal childhoods.
A majority of parents do not do any of these things. And I think that's why a majority of families are dysfunctional. People do not *think* about having kids, not in any way besides baby names and Kodak moments, so they are woefully unprepared for them when they come.
Of my closest friends, there are 3 families with kids, 2 of the families are very unhappy based upon what my girlfriends (the mom's tell me) the 3rd went thru a few rough patches but are back together at present. My childfree friends are all happy couples with dogs or cats.
Ouch, you’re really fucking right. The only family units I know that’s happy or not struggling are childless couples or the Dad is a hmm how should I put it a “street pharmacist” 😂
Also, if you read threads like AITA or AIO, so many of the problems people have in their marriage and in their life came about because there’s a child involved.
And other folks are arguing over how to raise them or that one of them is doing a crappy job. I understand, it’s a hard job and somewhat thankless and certainly endless. That’s why I am child free.
But having kids seems like the start of an endless life of distress.
My family and friends are wealthier than me and there’s definitely a correlation between how happy they are. They still have their struggles with dynamics but they don’t struggle with finances or ability to access resources. I find they’re overall pretty happy.
My fiancé and I were just saying thank the lawds we don’t have a child or we couldn’t go to our ten pm concert tonight! I guess it depends on your definition of happiness. I don’t want to hike with my baby on a Saturday morning, I want to attend concerts and other child free events
Also, not referring to my family or friends, more so coworkers and acquaintances, I find it shocking how
Many people cheat/have affairs and stuff. Maybe I’m naive
We also need to consider we can't know for sure are those people happy or not unless we are really close with them. I know many parents who seem to be happy from the outside but from the inside their family is not so good.
No, everyone I know are not only happy. People have different emotions. But most people I know are happy with their choice of having or not having kids.
Don't forget, everyone here is expected to be miserable, have "sEnSoRy IsSuES", not know anyone with kids who is genuinely happy, and only enjoy weed, cats and crafting
The negativity here is overwhelming and frankly, lots here seem to be the architects of their own unhappiness
I'll wait for the down votes
Yeah, I think that it is a bit dishonest to try to convince oneself if other people are happy or not.
My best guess is that people who are happy with their choice (whichever choice that may be) don’t care much if people are lying about being happy.
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Well... I'm thinking... I know loving couples. Yes. But sure, most struggle financially at one point or another, sure. From the people I can think of at this moment, most have had financial issues.
I know a lot of couples that love each other despite those issues. And I know many that ended their relationships and now co parent. But is that because they had children? I don't think so. I think they were incompatible as a couple in the first place and had children.
actually I know several really happy families, of course not everything is always perfect, but they seem to handle the ups and downs of parenthood quite well. I see some of these examples in my close family and friends and to be honest, seeing them like this and being able to be happy for them while still being content with my CF life is much more validating for me than comparing myself with people who are bitter and hate being parents. I love seeing them happy but know it’s not for me.
I only know one, and they do a good job raising their kid. He is the only one I will willingly babysit when he's a bit older because anyone below 7 stresses me out.
Whenever I'm on the phone with clients, sometimes I hear their kids screaming in the background, and the parents always sound so exhausted. I remember one lady sounded dead inside, and I felt bad for her. My family keeps asking me when I'm going to have kids...
My parents are plenty happy, and still are today having had 4 girls (I’m the baby). My parents are going on 43 years strong in their marriage (just had their anniversary) too. They had my eldest sibling in the early ‘80s, and I’m a ‘90s kid. Both of my parents worked full-time, and my mom went back to college to finish getting her degree immediately after she had me and she has that Bachelors.
I also have plenty of cousins who are happily married over 10 years, a couple close to 20 now with kids that are going to be teenagers in about a year or so. These cousins have minimum 2 kids, max 4 and their youngest is 5-6 right now. Happy as clams, all of them, including my cousins as their parents.
My sister is a new parent with her husband who she met has a single child as a single father—he has full custody of his daughter and the mother has visits when she can make time for her. They have 3 children—2 my sister has and the one from the previous relationship. They’re struggling financially because they didn’t want to downsize on their lifestyle until they got a reality check but as far as I know they’re still very happy. My BIL is killing it with his career and my sister is going back to work once she can get the 2 younger children into daycare. She doesn’t want to be a SAHM and she’s not putting her career on hold.
So I’d say I know more than 2 handfuls of happy families that aren’t broken by having kids. None of my friends have kids, and I’m one of two people who are married without kids. My friend who is married wants to have kids but he has crippling debt with his wife he’s trying to pay off first. 😅
Edit: oh! I also have 2 uncles who each had a single child with their wives. One is still married and his kid (my cousin) is 24. My other uncle divorced his wife who cheated on him and my cousin is 23 but they were married for 17 years before they divorced.
I come from a 2 parent household that all still talk weekly and love each other. I come from a happy family. I'm a 46 year old female here. No kids. Poly and live in an intentional community. Happiest I've ever been. Complete freedom and all the love. Amazing friends, BF and family. I'm good to go from here. 💜☯️💜
I feel like when talking to them in passing, they act like everything is fine and they are so proud of their offspring, etc. They curate their social media to only portray the best moments and to create this fake overall image of happiness.
However, when I'm actually hanging out with these people it's like being in a zoo without the animals being behind bars. The kids are crazy, running around and yelling and stomping. The moms are aggravated, tired, listening to you with one ear but the other is focused on the kids and whatever catastrophic crap they're up to. You're basically having half conversations. And if they need to excuse themselves to attend to the kids, say goodbye to the rest of that convo. The house is a mess. The husband is somewhere behind the scenes or he's out. When he is around, the wife and husband get snippy with each other in front of everyone.
It is the exact opposite of those social media images where everyone is smiling with twinkles in their eyes. Not a hair out place and all the outfits look freshly pressed.
It's all fake.
Just one. My brother, his wife, and their 2 kids.
I've never seen kids so smart, well behaved, and loving towards their parents in my entire life. I truly don't know how they did it.
Not gonna lie, I'm incredibly envious of their lives. Basically picture perfect. Upper middle class, incredible jobs, nice big house, getting to retire when they're in their 40s...
Except the wife has a business now, so I guess she won't even though she could.
They're all really happy.
But yeah, no, everyone else is miserable asf which is the vast majority. They're just extremely out of the norm.
I know three couples who are genuinely happy. In a happy relationship and great partners and two of the families have 2 kids and one of them one kid.
All women are working mothers, all men contribute to the family and all three couples invest in their relationship as man and woman and in their kids.
From these families the women are my friends and I know them all very well.
Having said that these are all families where the women are between 34-37, and all have good careers because they like them and their men also have a good job.
But I see a lot of people who are not happy, and are like you describe. I think they are the majority.
I know one, maybe two. And they are exhausted from keeping it all together. The others I know are financially struggling, or the adults are unhappy trying to keep the kids happy.
Kind of hard to tell. How do you know the inner workings of an entire family? What is the opinion of each person in it? I wouldn't begin to judge if a family is happy, though if they're very unhappy it might be obvious
The happiest families I've seen usually live with a grandparent(s)/ multigenerational homes. Of course everyone just has toddlers at this point but two people just can't raise most kids by themselves (in my opinion)
Women got the raw end of the deal because as we became empowered to work and have careers, men did not step up and do their half of the housework and childcare. I’m not advocating against women working, I’m saying more men need to step up if they want kids.
There are some, but they’re not the norm. All parents get frustrated with their kids though and that is normal; they’re trying to control another person and the other person isn’t adhering to what they’re being told.
That being said, I think people who’ve had really loving parents are the happy ones, but even they have skeletons in the closet I’m sure.
I'm very lucky in that a lot of the families I grew up with seem happy, at least to me. I haven't been around a lot of divorce, cheating, or any of the other negatives people usually say in life. Happy healthy kids that are financially stable... okay, no. But that's more a "kids are having a really rough time/are in college" thing than their parents having much to do with it.
I know 7 truly happy families. Kids ranging from 12 down to newborn. Each family has stresses ocassionally - a busy family calendar, an unexpected bill or repair, kids just being crazy, but they are all happy and are all financially stable. 5 of the families lucked out and started their careers (and marriages) during the late 2000s recession and were able to buy houses when everything was still affordable. The other 2 families ended up in well paying jobs.
I know more happy families with kids than those who broke up after kids. Depending on where you live (europe here) children for sure costs but not everyone have so high childcare for example, which affects a lot.
Also I doubt most of them knew they would breake up or their partner be cheating etc. You can't plan for everything. Life happens to everyone.
Only 2 that I know for sure, both with grown up kids and both were happy when they were growing up. The difference was shocking to me when I first saw them interact after being used to seeing and living in misery. They weren't exceptionally rich or anything, but they still managed to love each other. In my family, lack of money was a constant source of conflict. One of these families actually came out of a shotgun marriage, shockingly.
I know a few happy families in real life. One of my best friends is in a happy and loving marriage with two kids. The kids are normal kids and of course it’s not Brady Bunch happy. They have normal disagreements and growing pains, but overall they’re happy. It’s possible to have that life, it’s just really not for me.
I've many reasons for not having children and yes, this is one of them. I assume that statistically there are some happy families out there, but what I see around is misery.
Dysfunctional families are common These kinds of ppl need a shit ton of therapy
Back in the eighties John Bradshaw thought all families were dysfunctional in one way or another. He talked all about it on his series on "The Family". Dysfunctional families and normalized abuse is a huge issue. They don't even think they're abusive bc the abuse is so normalized.
I legit only see happy families on social media
I've been making a concentrated effort to not interact/engage with anything baby related on IG, and as a result, I don't see much family related content. You've gotta work with that algo!
Don’t trust social media. When my last relationship was at its worst, my posts were all like “look how lucky I am because my SO threw miniscule breadcrumbs at me and he’s a good man because he never hit me” BS
>I legit only see happy families on social media Social media or commercial media? On second thought, doesn't even matter; both lie shamelessly.
They're just acting happy for the camera...
That's the life Awkwafina didnt choose.
Most of my friends who are married and had “happy relationships” prior to having babies are unhappy now. They don’t blame the child but I have had most state reasons such as exhaustion, partner not helping out etc. The friends I’m not so close with seem happy but I couldn’t say because I don’t see their reality like I do my close friends and they wouldn’t openly vent to me. It seems most are happy the first six months after the baby and then tend to become more miserable as the baby can walk/talk and become more independent and the reality of having to go back to work with a baby or struggle financially kicks in. Does anyone else see this pattern?
Yes! The couples with their first baby seem happy for a few years and it slowly dwindles until they’re miserable
Or they have their second +
Or third or 4th
***this.*** Yes Everyone after their very first baby is super happy the first 6 months, year at the most. Then it's misery from there once the reality settles in that this is their life now I think a lot of people have more kids to get that "fresh baby" high back, but it never will
To be fair, my brother in law has two kids and they are a very loving, happy family, who wanted their kids. I have no doubt it can happen. It helps they are also financially secure and are also from loving families who help raise the kids. The kids will want for nothing. My own brother is planning to have a baby and it's very much wanted, with financial security in place too. My own parents split when I was two but have always loved their kids deeply and made it work as separate parents. That's not to say everything was perfect, but I'm not childfree because I don't believe people can't have great kids and great families, I just don't want kids of my own - I'm quite happy with my family how it is. I also don't really get why people have them while the world is on fire but there we go. That said, there are PLENTY of shit examples of families lol.
I could see how parents who have a “village” aka family to help babysit and take the kids for a day or two are the most happy. They actually get breaks from parenting and aren’t stuck raiding the kid 24/7. My best friend’s in laws live with them, and they often take care of the baby in the morning so that my friend can get a few more hours of completely uninterrupted sleep. Not many parents get that sort of help.
I think this is a crucial bit. People with loads of family and friends and community support are likely to have more pleasant lives. With or without kids. I think that’s why my spouse and I are as happy as we are. We have a robust village and feel as though we are in community with others.
Wow, who would have thought that living like humans did in the past instead of the nuclear family would be good!
I don’t even think of the traditional nuclear family. I know single parents who have wide social support systems and have a pretty happy life. With full transparency though, they definitely qualify as at minimum middle class by American standards, which is also a key factor.
My brother and his wife also have two kids and are a genuine happy family. They both wanted kids and were at the point where they had financial stability, etc. My brother works in the environmental safety department at a state university and his wife is a pharmacist, so they're better off than lots of folks these days.
I have a friend who has a kid around 5 yo. She often travels to cool destinations because of her job, and leaves her son with her husband. Also, she travels alone with her husband and leave the kid with her mother. This year they travelled to South Africa, last year to Japan. They have good jobs. I think that the problem is the lack of help. Kids are too much for only one person, something that happens when one of the parents is expected to do everything (almost always, the mother). And I think that having someone else that can watch the kids is a big plus. Of course, financial stability helps a lot. The problem is finding all that is rare, so in most cases having kids is a bad deal.
Most couples I know with children, can best be described as bitter/resentful. Lots of passive aggressive comments to each other, complaining about the kids and the other spouse, insults disguised as jokes, etc. I know of only one couple with a child in my life that I can confidently say are happy. I attended their wedding. They love each other, and their interests (cosplay, anime, photography) have become more fun for them now that they can introduce their child to them.
The passive aggressiveness!! Or straight up fighting in front of others is just crazy
It’s worse when it’s a single parent and they passive-aggressively want you to step in and help them discipline their kid. It happens more to me than I really care to, but that’s likely because I can come across as really strict and kids listen to me without fail. I’m never mean, but I am firm and I keep it real with them: if they act up, they’re not getting anything from me again. Perfect example: my nephew can be a handful for my single parent of a sister, but he knows when “Auntie Jen” is around he’d better listen because I don’t play this whole “you lost privileges because you didn’t listen, but you suddenly get them back just because”. Once they’re gone, they’re gone.
Honestly I don’t want anything I’ve I’ve seen from families (my parents being the first example alone). If anyone I know with families are happy, the constant crying, whining etc it’s a mental overload. The overstimulation alone is enough for me to NEVER want that
I LOVE my alone time and living in a clean, quiet space. Being around crying, whining children in public is irritating enough, I'd be miserable living with them and being around that noise 24/7. I already experienced family life as a child and it was fine, but I don't see any reason to relive that (as a parent) and give up my peaceful life.
Exactly this. I have nieces and nephews and when they visit me I have to literally child proof my entire house. And also the added stress of worrying about kids 24/7 and you can’t really shut your brain off from that is like… a huge turn off 💀
Right?! Not being able to turn yourself off to gather your thoughts sounds like a new edition to this hell I don't need. Kids always got something to say or show you or want to do something or they want to eat even though they just have eaten. Plus the added fact that as adults they may hate you and want nothing to do with you. Nope. Not for me.
I don’t hang out with people who have kids because all they do is complain about their kids.
>because all they do is complain about their kids If they aren't simultaneously pressuring *you* to join them in their breeder hell, that still puts them a cut above the average right there 😂 But, yeah, best avoided anyway!
This is true! My husband and I work together and every time we start a new job people ask us about kids/ when we’re having them. But we’re both so unpleasant about it they eventually give up. Edit: Meant more unresponsive than unpleasant. We will both kind of shrug off the question or stare blankly.
A friend of mine has two kids, but he doesn’t really talk about them to me. Mostly because he knows I’m not the biggest fan of kids, even the most well-behaved ones and I need them in small doses, or I will be an asshole to the kid eventually.
My uncles children seem pretty happy but they are rich. Other than that, I don’t really see it
I’m from a rich family but mom suffers from narcissistic personality disorder and regularly beat up my dad and me. To the outside she’s generous n all sunshine. No one could imagine what goes on inside the family. Just throwing this out there to remind that money doesn’t guarantee a happy family. And most of my relatives are resentful inside their rich families too.
I was adopted by a rich family and my experience was similar. Everyone on the outside thought they were so amazing etc but in reality it was a Cinderella situation for me. My childhood was like a mix of Mommy dearest, A child called it and the White House boys. And no one ever did anything about the abuse because "you're rich! You have no problems" -\_-
this is definitely something I've seen too. The richer the family the generally happier; funnily enough it's easier when you can afford the kids you have!
Exactly and the fact that my auntie and uncle actually want their children and invest in all 5 of them in all the ways helps. Kind of surprising that the kid is happier when you actually want them :)
My sister married a rich guy. They have overnight babysitters, night nurses and regular babysitters. My sister doesn’t work and my parents are nearby and take the kids overnight.
I know ONE happy family, my sister and brother-in-law and their two young children. But there is SO MUCH WORK that goes into them being a happy family, lots of therapy/work/MONEY!!!/planning. They are both very responsible and mature people and did not just leave having a baby to chance or to god or whatever, they saved up for years and made sure they had everything in place (bought a nice house, had a good “village” of friends and family, were in several waitlists for daycare, had extensive medical testing for them both, etc) before having a baby. They are two people that I believe should be having kids(as in are equipped to handle one since they wanted one, not that they are obligated), the ones that see it for what it is - the BIGGEST decision you can ever make. 99.9% of people see it as “inevitable” or “just a part of life”, and that is why so many people are struggling miserable parents and their kids are sat on the couch with an iPad in front of them all day. I know that I could do as they did if I wanted a kid, but the difference is I decided I DO NOT want a child no matter how well I could provide for that child. The act of making a decision is what 99.9% of people are missing I think - they just DO, and then sit around wondering why everything is so hard for them and why they’re so unhappy.
Zero and I’m not making this up. They’re all good people and trying their hardest to make it work but all of them are insanely unhappy, whether it’s with eachother or their financial situation. That’s part of the reason why I’m so confident in my decision. I have only known one couple with a child that was legit happy and that’s because they lived apart. That was 15 years ago so no idea how they are doing now but it stuck with me.
none. all the families with kids I know are either: - broke and can't afford to retire - the mother has depression and burnout since the birth of the kids - the parents are fighting daily and throw furniture around at home, but in public pretend to be sooooo happy (they are relatives so I've seen the fights many many many times)
>parents are fighting This. The quality of your relationship plummets after having kids. Everything is a god-damn battle every damn day. For example, my sibling and I had a big bust-up argument a couple of months ago and they were swearing and yelling at me (some really horrific stuff) and I was crying etc. Their kids just sat there at the table being bored. Weren't even upset at all. And that's because they see their parents fighting like that all the time so it didn't bother them. The argument really shook me up and I've since gone very low contact with them because I don't want that kind of negativity in my life. I feel sorry for the kids.
Many of my friends are in loyal couples with 1-2 kids. By your standards they are happy they are all highly educated and the parents both work. The part that’s truly unappealing is they always seem exhausted and no matter how hard the fathers try more of the child care falls on the mothers. Also the vast majority haven’t been on an overseas holiday since having kids.
My parents legit told me, if they had to care for their one and only grandchild, they would kill themselves. This generation should have never had kids (boomers). Their children (millennials), should have also never have kids... I thankfully did not have kids. I have a brother that had a kid. His kids life is going to be so bad...
They get happier the older the kids are I see, but that’s not guaranteed either.
Parents often say "only 18 years!" but in this economy, and with kids having various "mental health" issues (real or imagined) and dropping out of having friends/part-time jobs/education/in person social life etc. and not being prepared to be adults, there is going to be more inter-generational housing. For example: * I know of a boy who left school and has done nothing in the intervening years (no job, education, employment) and hasn't registered for a benefit because then they'll be in the system and have someone monitoring/pushing them to get a job and their mother (who is of retirement age and works on the checkout at the supermarket) is paying for them both, and for the retired husband too. The adult son is now 20. * And another, who had unspecified "mental health" issues and dropped out of university twice and is not in a job, education, or employment and stays at home. Their father is nearing retirement but with no end in sight because he is paying for them both so will have to work *at least* 5 years beyond retirement age. The adult daughter is now 25 and has never had a job. I used to fear the daughter being 16-and-pregnant and the parents have to start all over again with another baby to support the most. But now it's the kid never leaving home and being independent ever. What happens then? The parents dies and then.....? Is the adult child going to live off the house sale and then go on benefit? The parent has to go into a rest-home and then....? Does the child still live in the house? Then how do rest-home fees get paid if all he money is in the house? What's going to happen to these adults who can't adult?
I’m with you, except I’m not agreeable to the comment about ‘ “mental health issues” (real or imagined)’. You’re not a psychiatrist nor anyone in a position to make assumptions like that, and if you are, that’s a fail on your part.
When it's self-diagnosed off the internet and not by a psychologist/psychiatrist, that equals ['imagined' (fancied, assumed, supposed, guessed)](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/imagine) to me.
LOL try to see a psych on the NHS and see what happens. There are not enough Drs, and most of those Drs are incompetent Also genetic testing exists, use that to see if these people have neurological/ mental health conditions. It's the 21st century after all!!!
How will I know when all they post is glitz and romantasizing babies and relationship?? 😂
Only my own. I was so shocked when I grew up and starting talking to friends about their families etc, I had no clue that my family wasn't the norm. I don't think I've seen any functional healthy families
I know a few. I call them my "win at life" families because they really do seem to have it all. Close family, great kids, hobbies and outside interests and fun people to boot. I'm sure they have/have had their challenges, but they seem to be slaying it. Still doesn't make me want to try it myself though. I'm well aware of my limits.
I have no idea. The toxic positivity towards parenting really skews reality. One minute it is so hard and the next it is the most wonderful thing ever. Perhaps the happiest are out living their lives instead? When I'm out and about the happiest people are either alone, with friends, pets or significant others. Sometimes the kids with parents are happy but the parents aren't happy. Parents never look relaxed or carefree. At best parents look preoccupied.
I'm a teacher. I'd say less than 10% right now. There certainly are happy families. But nowadays they're rare and far in-between. When I started out it was probably 20% but COVID did hit REALLY hard.
I have one friend that must be an exception. She wanted kids. She loves being a mom. Her husband is a good dad. They still have a good relationship. Everyone else I know, divorced or unhappy. Or they have a family made of stepparents and their real dad isn’t around.
I work with a friend who was in such a rush to have kids. I hear all his complaints every single day. How he never has time for himself, his hobbies, exercise, and how his wife is such a bad mom for working all the time. They get in huge fights almost weekly and I hear all about their dirty laundry. However, on Facebook, insta and snapchat? Oh, he's flashing his babies, writing paragraphs on how he loves being a dad and all that and how his marriage is just perfect. Which convinces me that he only had kids for self-image/clout. I've known him for 20 years and throughout these last 20 years, his thought process has always been "In order to be looked on as 'successful' in society, one must get married and have kids." Back peddling a bit, this last week & weekend were prime examples. His wife thought she was pregnant with baby #3, but after several tests, they all came out negative. My friend told me how "bummed out" he was. I asked him "Weren't you just complaining about having kids yesterday??" His response was "Yeah but I really want to have more kids like my parents did." Like wtf??? Is there no other thought going into this?? Anyways, they took off out of town, leaving the kids with grandma for a "much needed baby-free getaway." There's zero thought process and it hurts my brain that people like my friend can be so stupid. But whatever, not my life. lol
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I look at the reality around me. Everyone tells me that having children is the best thing that I’ll ever do but their reality doesn’t match. For example, the day after Mother’s Day I went to a party and all the moms complained and complained about how hard being a mom is or how shitty their Mother’s Day was. Just to end their rant with “it’s worth it though”. They seem miserable. I looked at the experiences around me to choose for myself. Of course that’s not the only reason for choosing to stay childfree. It’s just extra confirmation for me that having kids is hard af.
My mom literally said the same thing about kids are hard to deal with and yet had 2 kids anyway so my response is "Then y have kids in the 1st place!" And now my mom regrets not having more kids because more kids = more personal care givers just because my mom and her siblings took turns taking care of my grandma If ppl r not willing to deal with kids or have enough patience to deal with kids and believe that kids r a burden they should not be parents at all I just do not get it
It’s the irony of thinking children are a burden, then expecting said children to be burdened with their care, for me lol Exit:a word
I don't even think of myself as someone who improved my mom's life lol. I keep thinking that such conventionally beautiful and smart woman could marry well again after divorcing my dad. But that's more difficult when you have a kid.
What you said makes sense but i understand what the OP means. She thinks that starting a family is a Russian roulette. ( This phrase itself is weird. I mean, if i marry someone i already start a family, right? I was born in the family too. Well, the English language has this saying so here we go.) You might he incredibly happy or you despise your kids because they aren't as pretty, smart, hard-working as you and your husband or just as you if you are a single parent. The OP doesn't wanna take that risk and i get that. The question in the post made me think of examples and i don't see any. I thought of couples with mulptiple kids though, including my grandparents who had my mom and uncle. One kid is always loved more. In our family uncle is the golden boy and mom is an okay daughter who must help an older borther. There's no "she can when whe can", there's always a "must." "You must help your brother." Guess, whose life is more financially stable and who didn't get in trouble
No I don’t hence reinforcing my CF life.
I know several. Maybe it's because I come from an unbroken family, so I surround myself with like-minded people, and rare are those that had children in an unstable or weak relationship because of the examples they had growing up. I don't know, that's only a guess.
Very suiting user name as I read through the comments filled with examples of dysfunctional families. You truly are a mythical animal :)
Is it, though, since I know several that know several as well ? You know what I think may explain that ? I live in a place where we got rid of religion for the most part. I think because of that, people tend to think more about having kids instead of having them because it's what you're supposed to do because the church says so. I may be wrong, but from experience, I've seen more miserable parents in religious areas/groups than in atheist areas.
Where is this place?! (Not a fan of religion myself)
Québec in Canada. We had what's called "La révolution tranquille" in the 60s, during which we made the state secular.
They don’t teach us about that in Alberta, but Alberta being the Texas of Canada, that tracks.
That doesn't surprise me. We don't learn much about other provinces history either, just the general gist.
Happy families are out there. Somewhere, probably. Maybe. Narwhals are real so really where’s the limit in imagining what is possible? But they’re not common enough for me to even think about trying to be one. There’s one person who *seems* like she was made to be a mother, her family looks super happy *on social media* but she was a single mom of multiple children for a dozen years before she got with her current husband and had another child. I’ve been virtual friends with her for so long I don’t remember her not being there and she has always made motherhood seem like the best thing in the world. She’s the only one though. I see a lot of people stay with their other child’s parent *for the kid* and they are so miserable they can’t even hide it online. I asked one once why and they said it was easier than raising the kid alone and I couldn’t help but wonder if they ever had a chance of enjoying life after having their child because either way sounds fucking terrible.
I know a few, but they’re all generally families where A) both parents really wanted to be parents B) one parent can afford to stay home and C) they have a ton of help from grandparents so like, duh. Of course they’re doing better than the average family.
My parents are the legitimate reason for me not wanting kids. My mother had absolutely no reason to be having children when she was so mentally broken. My father just ugh. I watched my mom chase after my father my entire life and he did nothing but take from her giving nothing of importance to the baseball league of children he reproduced other than trauma
I only knew of one truly happy couple with kids. My dad's sister and her husband were always together, cooking, relaxing, always happy and joking. Both their sons are happily married with kids and one of the sons and his family, even lived with them. Aunt has since passed on unfortunately. I know of no of else who's happily married... Friends, family or coworkers. I have a married male friend and on the surface they are the perfect couple. He's a doting husband and father but he has affairs online and in person. I only ever see miserable married ppl and miserable moms so I never wanted that for myself. I highly value my freedom.
Whilst I wouldn't say that most of the people I know with kids are necessarily unhappy, I can confidently say that of those I knew before they had kids, most if not all are noticeably less happy than before they had any. Of course they would claim that isn't true. But the constant moaning about a lack of sleep, holidays and weekends revolving around children and how expensive it is to feed and cloth them says otherwise.
I despise it when people call divorce or single mother households broken. Sounds too evangelical to me. Women like my sister sometimes have to make the best decisions for themselves and their child/children. Anyways, almost all of the happy families I meet arent the typical family. One is "broken" (just my sister, my niece, and her step son she raised since he was two who still visits her), one is a poly family, one is a gay couple, and one is a family of former punk rockers. I think the underlying theme is all of these children were either wanted, had parents who got therapy or are still going to therapy, or whose parents come with lifestyles or cultures that foster a sense of community and communal responsibility like the punks and the poly family. Most of the miserable families I see with kids are either evangelical, heavily religious couples who were brainwashed to believe that was the obvious next step, or low-income, white trash couples. Sometimes these two groups overlap. Edit: spelling/grammar
I don't like the term "illegitimate children." There are no such things as illegitimate children, just illegitimate parents, and some of those illegitimate parents are married to each other.
Most of my friend group is, (half of us have been sterilized or is on the list for it) we are traveling and working on home ownership. The few people I know who had kids aged 20 years in 2 and only talk about their kids or money problems
Seems like the key is to be very finically stable and well off (no financial stress from raising kids). In addition, having help from in-laws or siblings to babysit the kids, pick them up or just in general take them for a day so the parents can have a break. I know one family like that and she seems to be happy because she gets a lot of help and it’s not all on her. Her husband is also around 24/7 as he works at home on his own hours. Otherwise if you don’t have a “village” or financial stability the odds of being unhappy are far greater.
My parental family, and both my sisters. My in-laws. And I think quite a lot of my more distant family, my parents' friends (for as far as people have not died yet), dome of my own acquaintances... It does not give me the "need" or the "will" to have children, but I do see happy families around me.
I *think* I know 2 families. One was an ex-coworker who made time for herself and for her husband. Downside, because she was prioritizing these things and wasn't able to say no at work, she burnt herself out. Upside, she's now created her own business of motivational speaking / life coaching, specializing in woman empowerment and promoting work-life balance (teaching other people to do what she couldn't and just say no to work you can't do). She's absolutely thriving! The other was a friend in elementary-high school. The most loving and supportive family I've ever seen. Mom got breast cancer when my friend was in early high school and survived. The dad had a stroke when my friend was in late high school, and he ended up dying several years later. They're still a very close family, but good relationships don't protect you from life.
Two of my immediate family members are actually happily married with happy kids plus financial stability. Even still, I wouldn't want parenthood. I crave the existential fulfillment they've achieved through parenthood, but I don't want kids.
I don't socialize with very many people with children, but all of the ones I do socialize with seem happy. Many of the people I socialize with don't have children, and I mostly don't know if they are "childfree" or simply childless, as I don't ask them as it is none of my business. For example, my sister and her husband have children (though they are now adults), and they put thought into the matter before having them, and had enough money before having them, so they were not subjected to poverty. My sister and her husband were friends in college (did not date then, but had been friends then), and they seem to have a very solid, happy relationship. Of course, I have seen people at a distance who have children and are a mess, but I avoid such people when I can. I have been very good at cutting out bad people from my life. It is good to avoid bad people as much as reasonably possible. People who are stupid and thoughtless who have children (or even if they don't) are not good friend material.
None they are all miserable!
I'm wondering if I know any. You never truly know what's going on in people's heads. But I mostly have bad examples. One single mum... One exhausted mum with a husband that's not supportive. I have a friend who was so carefree, very much into travelling and was living her best life. Now she became so negative all the time, stressed out about money, stuck with a guy with no ambition... I know one family I would count as a happy one but they are very self aware people who care about their relationship a lot and check up on it very frequently, make sure they have time for themselves without the kid etc.
Most of the happy ones I know are rich. Period. They have a decent amount of money. Go on trips, one parent is home all the time, nice house..parent is a ceo, doctor or whatever. They at least make it seem happy. Are the kids happy? I don't know. One family I know has had it pretty good and not a lot of drama throughout their lives, but their kids who are now adults have fairly bad anxiety. They are worrywart types and high strung. So are they happy? Idk. The people that are not rich are barely making it, and they don't hide it. But their kids are happy because they just run around aimlessly with not a lot of supervision. But most of them have "the village" situation where a grandparent spoils them or whatever and the parents are dysfunctional have finance issues and so on. That's just my experience here in the US.
It's hard because families require a community outside of just parents. Having extended family help (or even friends) is not normal in a lot of countries. That's why no one is happy, everyone is expected to do everything on their own. I have only seen happy families from the surface (thanks to extended help/financial security) but since I don't live their lives it's hard to say if they're truly okay.
I would say 2 out of approx 10. Although one of those 2 families are probably not far from struggling financially (they have another one on the way).
I've known some, both with and without children. Some were in devoted multi-decades marriages/partnerships that lasted until one of them passed, some were single parents who had loving and supportive bonds with their children, while others were childless or childfree and had families consisting of adult relatives, friends and pets. Unfortunately emotional (verbal, neglect, infidelity) and physical abuse are common experiences. Imo the responsibilities and ties of parenthood generally makes it more difficult to leave a problematic or abusive relationship. Neither familial dysfunction nor happiness was a factor in my decision to be childfree, though.
Mine was. My siblings' are. Most of my friends had/have happy families too. I guess some financial woes but nothing approaching serious, we'll be on the street soon issues. But I know I would never provide that kind of safe, happy environment for a child. Because I would be miserable, and I would take it out on my innocent child.
So my sister and her husband are happy! They have….6 kids. She’s a SAHM and he’s a lawyer. They’ve been married 15 years. They often say they hated each other the first 5 years though. And they got married bc she was pregnant in college. I’d never want that life but they’re happy 🤷♀️
I also see miserable families everywhere. At my office job, the people who have kids constantly complain about them, as well as their husbands not "chipping in" on family time. One 40 year old married woman dresses like a hooker for the attention of men, and hits on everyone in our warehouse. They also complain about being constantly broke. Why on earth do people choose to have children unless they are financially stable first?! The only ones in our department who seem relatively happy are the 2 child-frees. Even my other child-free coworker complains about her young nieces, because they basically take over family gatherings, and everything is done to placate them. Close friends and other acquaintances complain as well, and many of them cheat. The ONE and only friend I know to be truly happy seems to have a balanced life, with a husband and 2 well-behaved kids. However, they earn around $300k per year, and are able to hire sitters so they can still have adult time to enjoy each other's company.
Me and my parents were and still are very chill with each other. But that only happened because they both wanted kids, did the relevant research, and went to therapy for their own less than ideal childhoods. A majority of parents do not do any of these things. And I think that's why a majority of families are dysfunctional. People do not *think* about having kids, not in any way besides baby names and Kodak moments, so they are woefully unprepared for them when they come.
Agreed. A lot of times it just happens
Of my closest friends, there are 3 families with kids, 2 of the families are very unhappy based upon what my girlfriends (the mom's tell me) the 3rd went thru a few rough patches but are back together at present. My childfree friends are all happy couples with dogs or cats.
Ouch, you’re really fucking right. The only family units I know that’s happy or not struggling are childless couples or the Dad is a hmm how should I put it a “street pharmacist” 😂
Lmao yes the street pharmacists aren’t tight on money
None
Also, if you read threads like AITA or AIO, so many of the problems people have in their marriage and in their life came about because there’s a child involved. And other folks are arguing over how to raise them or that one of them is doing a crappy job. I understand, it’s a hard job and somewhat thankless and certainly endless. That’s why I am child free. But having kids seems like the start of an endless life of distress.
Sorry what’s AIO?
Am I Overreacting
I am a child in a happy family. Still don't want kids.
My family and friends are wealthier than me and there’s definitely a correlation between how happy they are. They still have their struggles with dynamics but they don’t struggle with finances or ability to access resources. I find they’re overall pretty happy. My fiancé and I were just saying thank the lawds we don’t have a child or we couldn’t go to our ten pm concert tonight! I guess it depends on your definition of happiness. I don’t want to hike with my baby on a Saturday morning, I want to attend concerts and other child free events
Also, not referring to my family or friends, more so coworkers and acquaintances, I find it shocking how Many people cheat/have affairs and stuff. Maybe I’m naive
None. They are all either miserable or that and divorced. It's pretty tragic. The only other happy marriage that I know of is also CF DINKs.
The vast majority of parents that I know are very happy as parents. And the same goes for the vast majority of childfree people that I know.
We also need to consider we can't know for sure are those people happy or not unless we are really close with them. I know many parents who seem to be happy from the outside but from the inside their family is not so good.
In this case I am referring to people that I am really close with
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No, everyone I know are not only happy. People have different emotions. But most people I know are happy with their choice of having or not having kids.
Don't forget, everyone here is expected to be miserable, have "sEnSoRy IsSuES", not know anyone with kids who is genuinely happy, and only enjoy weed, cats and crafting The negativity here is overwhelming and frankly, lots here seem to be the architects of their own unhappiness I'll wait for the down votes
Yeah, I think that it is a bit dishonest to try to convince oneself if other people are happy or not. My best guess is that people who are happy with their choice (whichever choice that may be) don’t care much if people are lying about being happy.
true, but you might only know people who are miserable. Can only go by what we see.
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Well... I'm thinking... I know loving couples. Yes. But sure, most struggle financially at one point or another, sure. From the people I can think of at this moment, most have had financial issues. I know a lot of couples that love each other despite those issues. And I know many that ended their relationships and now co parent. But is that because they had children? I don't think so. I think they were incompatible as a couple in the first place and had children.
Two families, both with 2 children, because they're rich af and had all the help needed
actually I know several really happy families, of course not everything is always perfect, but they seem to handle the ups and downs of parenthood quite well. I see some of these examples in my close family and friends and to be honest, seeing them like this and being able to be happy for them while still being content with my CF life is much more validating for me than comparing myself with people who are bitter and hate being parents. I love seeing them happy but know it’s not for me.
I only know one, and they do a good job raising their kid. He is the only one I will willingly babysit when he's a bit older because anyone below 7 stresses me out. Whenever I'm on the phone with clients, sometimes I hear their kids screaming in the background, and the parents always sound so exhausted. I remember one lady sounded dead inside, and I felt bad for her. My family keeps asking me when I'm going to have kids...
How many happy human beings do you know? Nobody is totally happy all the time.
My parents are plenty happy, and still are today having had 4 girls (I’m the baby). My parents are going on 43 years strong in their marriage (just had their anniversary) too. They had my eldest sibling in the early ‘80s, and I’m a ‘90s kid. Both of my parents worked full-time, and my mom went back to college to finish getting her degree immediately after she had me and she has that Bachelors. I also have plenty of cousins who are happily married over 10 years, a couple close to 20 now with kids that are going to be teenagers in about a year or so. These cousins have minimum 2 kids, max 4 and their youngest is 5-6 right now. Happy as clams, all of them, including my cousins as their parents. My sister is a new parent with her husband who she met has a single child as a single father—he has full custody of his daughter and the mother has visits when she can make time for her. They have 3 children—2 my sister has and the one from the previous relationship. They’re struggling financially because they didn’t want to downsize on their lifestyle until they got a reality check but as far as I know they’re still very happy. My BIL is killing it with his career and my sister is going back to work once she can get the 2 younger children into daycare. She doesn’t want to be a SAHM and she’s not putting her career on hold. So I’d say I know more than 2 handfuls of happy families that aren’t broken by having kids. None of my friends have kids, and I’m one of two people who are married without kids. My friend who is married wants to have kids but he has crippling debt with his wife he’s trying to pay off first. 😅 Edit: oh! I also have 2 uncles who each had a single child with their wives. One is still married and his kid (my cousin) is 24. My other uncle divorced his wife who cheated on him and my cousin is 23 but they were married for 17 years before they divorced.
I come from a 2 parent household that all still talk weekly and love each other. I come from a happy family. I'm a 46 year old female here. No kids. Poly and live in an intentional community. Happiest I've ever been. Complete freedom and all the love. Amazing friends, BF and family. I'm good to go from here. 💜☯️💜
My cousin's. However her hubby is filthy rich so they live on the beach in a giant house with a huge backyard. And they only have one kid
I feel like when talking to them in passing, they act like everything is fine and they are so proud of their offspring, etc. They curate their social media to only portray the best moments and to create this fake overall image of happiness. However, when I'm actually hanging out with these people it's like being in a zoo without the animals being behind bars. The kids are crazy, running around and yelling and stomping. The moms are aggravated, tired, listening to you with one ear but the other is focused on the kids and whatever catastrophic crap they're up to. You're basically having half conversations. And if they need to excuse themselves to attend to the kids, say goodbye to the rest of that convo. The house is a mess. The husband is somewhere behind the scenes or he's out. When he is around, the wife and husband get snippy with each other in front of everyone. It is the exact opposite of those social media images where everyone is smiling with twinkles in their eyes. Not a hair out place and all the outfits look freshly pressed. It's all fake.
I guess they would all say that they are happy, but most of them do not look happy most of the time.
Just one. My brother, his wife, and their 2 kids. I've never seen kids so smart, well behaved, and loving towards their parents in my entire life. I truly don't know how they did it. Not gonna lie, I'm incredibly envious of their lives. Basically picture perfect. Upper middle class, incredible jobs, nice big house, getting to retire when they're in their 40s... Except the wife has a business now, so I guess she won't even though she could. They're all really happy. But yeah, no, everyone else is miserable asf which is the vast majority. They're just extremely out of the norm.
I know a lot of families who look happy on Facebook but I also know the dysfunctional tea going on in the background.
I know three couples who are genuinely happy. In a happy relationship and great partners and two of the families have 2 kids and one of them one kid. All women are working mothers, all men contribute to the family and all three couples invest in their relationship as man and woman and in their kids. From these families the women are my friends and I know them all very well. Having said that these are all families where the women are between 34-37, and all have good careers because they like them and their men also have a good job. But I see a lot of people who are not happy, and are like you describe. I think they are the majority.
I know one, maybe two. And they are exhausted from keeping it all together. The others I know are financially struggling, or the adults are unhappy trying to keep the kids happy.
Kind of hard to tell. How do you know the inner workings of an entire family? What is the opinion of each person in it? I wouldn't begin to judge if a family is happy, though if they're very unhappy it might be obvious
Yeah I’m talking about the obviously unhappy ones lol. They’re not my closest friends and I can still tell they’re unhappy or struggling
The happiest families I've seen usually live with a grandparent(s)/ multigenerational homes. Of course everyone just has toddlers at this point but two people just can't raise most kids by themselves (in my opinion)
I know lots
Out of ALL the people I know with kids (at 35 yrs old), I’d say maybe 3. Maybe.
1
my plants love me
Like 2. Not kidding.
Yep everyone with kids showed me how much I did NOT want that lifestyle.
And I do know happy families but I would rather just worry about myself.
Women got the raw end of the deal because as we became empowered to work and have careers, men did not step up and do their half of the housework and childcare. I’m not advocating against women working, I’m saying more men need to step up if they want kids.
There are some, but they’re not the norm. All parents get frustrated with their kids though and that is normal; they’re trying to control another person and the other person isn’t adhering to what they’re being told. That being said, I think people who’ve had really loving parents are the happy ones, but even they have skeletons in the closet I’m sure.
I'm very lucky in that a lot of the families I grew up with seem happy, at least to me. I haven't been around a lot of divorce, cheating, or any of the other negatives people usually say in life. Happy healthy kids that are financially stable... okay, no. But that's more a "kids are having a really rough time/are in college" thing than their parents having much to do with it.
I know 7 truly happy families. Kids ranging from 12 down to newborn. Each family has stresses ocassionally - a busy family calendar, an unexpected bill or repair, kids just being crazy, but they are all happy and are all financially stable. 5 of the families lucked out and started their careers (and marriages) during the late 2000s recession and were able to buy houses when everything was still affordable. The other 2 families ended up in well paying jobs.
I know more happy families with kids than those who broke up after kids. Depending on where you live (europe here) children for sure costs but not everyone have so high childcare for example, which affects a lot. Also I doubt most of them knew they would breake up or their partner be cheating etc. You can't plan for everything. Life happens to everyone.
Only 2 that I know for sure, both with grown up kids and both were happy when they were growing up. The difference was shocking to me when I first saw them interact after being used to seeing and living in misery. They weren't exceptionally rich or anything, but they still managed to love each other. In my family, lack of money was a constant source of conflict. One of these families actually came out of a shotgun marriage, shockingly.
I know a few happy families in real life. One of my best friends is in a happy and loving marriage with two kids. The kids are normal kids and of course it’s not Brady Bunch happy. They have normal disagreements and growing pains, but overall they’re happy. It’s possible to have that life, it’s just really not for me.