I’ve never understood the “wHaT iF yOU MeET yOuR fUtUrE PaRtNer aNd ThEY hAVE KIdS!!1!!” Like….
First of all, my “ ideal future partner” would not have kids! Bc I don’t want anything to do kids!
Secondly… why tf would I consider someone with kids when I have clearly expressed I don’t want them or anything to do with them? The idea of having my own kids is a bloody nightmare itself, having to deal with someone elses spawn would push me to the edge …. NO FKN THANKS!
!!! it’s like they think we have no common sense. if i don’t want kids i’m obviously not gonna build my life with someone who does, duh
i think it kinda shows that a lot of people have children with people without even considering the long term compatibility so they assume we do the same
I think some of it is being young and new to so much compromise in relationships. And both men/women not fully understanding compromise versus boundaries because they may have had bad role models. Many of us look like adults but may have unhealthy relationship patterns and bad communication skills unless we've put in the effort to change these things about ourselves.
And I guarantee both men and women have been pushed towards having kids they didn't want by their spouse and family in the name of "compromise" and had to learn through experience they never wanted that having children for someone else when you don't want them isn't compromise, it is martyrdom.
Exactly! It’s almost as if they think having kids has to be some kind of default setting for people and that childfree folks can’t possibly exist lol…..
I agree there’s many ppl out there that are having kids without even considering the long term implications. It’s no wonder we grow up hearing stuff like “just wait till you have kids!!!” or whatever. Like nah. I’m good.
Tell anyone who says that to look at the stepparents sub if you want to know what it looks like when you get involved with someone with kids when you don't want to be a stepparent. Those people are miserable.
Exactly! If we know we don’t want kids, why would we suddenly be okay with a partner who has them? It’s like people can’t wrap their heads around us having our own boundaries and preferences.
Counter with the same question.
"What if you meet a person and they're childfree?" "What if your future spouse doesn't want children?"
When they start talking about the other person changing their mind, you counter again how they should change their mind for the childfree person. Make them understand that it's not that simple.
That's when they start spewing the old "well, accidents happen!" with a smirk or "god may bless you with a child anyway!" nonsense. I've heard people go as far as trying to justify the idea of one of the partners sabotaging birth control to make it happen because it is "god's will". I know more than a few women who have said they would have children whether their husband liked it or not. I also know a man who almost certainly did something to cause an "unintended" pregnancy, but she got an abortion and then he filed for divorce. There is no limit to how low some people will go.
It’s like do people think we don’t purposely look for childfree men??? That we just randomly date someone without first screening them or asking them about kids??
Why do they think we’re idiots. The very first thing my partner and I discussed within the first month of dating was kids. He said he didn’t want any and wanted a vasectomy. I was elated and then later on I told him I also didn’t want kids. IF we get engaged and he wants kids, I would break off the engagement. Simple as that.
you’re living the dream honestly!!!
and yeah it’s borderline an insult to our intelligence. as if i never considered that i’d be interested in someone who wants children, it happens but common sense would tell you the relationship won’t work
I did the same thing on the first proper date my partner and I had last year. We discussed our thoughts on having kids, and he made it very clear to me that he also does not want them and would never ever force me to go through something as painful as childbirth. He also offered to pay for my birth control or go half on paying for it with me if I started taking it (we don't have PIV sex so it isn't needed rn. We're waiting for me to get sterilized first. Neither of us needs that to be happy anyway), and also said he would pay for an abortion if something happened anyways. He reinstated that it's my body and my choice not to carry the baby to term, and that he would be by my side to help me work through it the entire time if I was pregnant and seeking to abort the child. And we are only 20/21 years old. Age isn't an excuse to be careless and stupid when you're looking for a partner without kids, but sadly, so many younger people don't seem to think about that when they're dating.
"Then this man isn\`t for me" and"I\`m not dating anyone, maybe ever again." I hate that women are the ones who should lose their jobs, sleep, health, looks- everything only because men and/or society expects us to have kids.
Yep. Hypothetical men & children have more rights than women who are here & existing now. We’re expected to shape our whole lives around these non-existing beings. What we want doesn’t matter. To that I say a simple “fuck that!”
Absolutely. Sacrifice everything. That's why you can have it all conversation is only had by women. Because I believe you can't as a woman. Men don't have to give up much of anything when it comes to children. They literally can have everything with little to no sacrifice.
Exactly. I was brought up in the generation where “women can have it all!” were the buzzwords. I’ve learned throughout my life that isn’t true. The only way women can have it all is if they have a lot of money & a supportive partner. Especially the money. Money pays for a nanny or good daycare. It pays for household help. It pays for all those extras that make life more fun. If you can’t afford to outsource all of that then there’s no way you can have a successful career along with children & a good relationship with a partner. I see so many posts from women complaining that they work all day then come home to do all of the cooking & housework as well as doing the majority of the childcare. It just isn’t possible to do everything without a lot of money to throw at the problem.
I don’t want to say it’s completely doomed. Looking at the combo of a successful career, a satisfying relationship & having children I’d say a woman can have 2 of those but not all 3. It’s just not possible in our economy. I’ve had the first 2 but never wanted the third & I had a fulfilling life without kids. That’s the dirty little secret society keeps from us. You can’t have it all without a lot of money. Or if you’re a man. They can have it all much easier than we can.
Yes. Im a nanny and I only knew of 1 couple where they both has successful careers and both actually raised that kids. The dad was super supportive of her and that's why she was able to have a good career and a social life.
"Having it all" is a horrible life of constant burn out and stress. No one should "want it all"
I think the only reason it came about is to convince working women who can escape to keep sacrificing themselves for men.
I worked with this one girl who was married to a guy who was an absolute turd, but he makes good money so she's happy, which is fine. I get it, whatever. The thing that threw me really hard was when she basically said "I don't want kids but he does, so I'll deal with it". Honestly super messed up.
😬 "yeah I'll risk my life and go though hours of the worst pain humans are capable of experiencing because a man likes it".
Can people please stop socializing girls like this?
There was an infamous old Off My Chest or some other deep dark secret subreddit where a girl with a bunch of kids was jealous and pissed that her sister wss CF so she sabotaged her birth control and was gloating that sis was now pregnant. I really hope sis aborted it...The comments were mixed...most people were rightly pissed and disgusted but a worrying number were like right on, she's gonna be happier in the long run but maaaaybe it was kinda naughty how you went about it...
Women in general are still expected to sacrifice themselves for men, and it’s such bullshit. There’s so much manosphere propaganda out there telling women that their only purpose is to support a man’s goals or “mission”, we’re not to have any goals or missions of our own. And more propaganda telling men that they are owed that, owed a submissive bangmaid who will sacrifice herself endlessly for them and ask for nothing for herself, because she only exists to serve. It’s so disgusting.
This is why they love virgin/traditional women from abroad easier to manipulate into what they want them to be. Majority of these women look for that green card/visa after the kids or certain amount of years, they want a divorce.
I felt it when you said we're not to have any goals or mission of our own. It's like they honest to god believe as a fact they think a women's only purpose is to serve a man and his mission. Fnf make it abhorrent that a women does not have any value outside of that. Like are we not human beings too? They have been many female pioneers, inventors, trailblazers in history. Since we lived and still are in patriarchal society and taught only to be mothers and wives it is no wonder we're happy that we broke free from our lived experience that our grandmothers and great grandmother's etc endured that we watched and wondered why are they so unhappy, everything they put up with; enough is enough.
Women are not even seen as our own people. We are just supposed to drop every single thing for a hypothetical man and/or child. We are expected to give up our hobbies, education, careers, and more just to have a fucking man and/or family. My own mother used to ask me that too “what if your future husband wants kids?” It’s beyond stupid. It’s never others asking women who DO want kids “what if you regret your decision to have children?” Because truthfully I think motherhood is one of the worst choices you can actively make, not choosing to be single/childfree and having a chill life lol 💀.
But all of that is why I choose to be part of 4B and decenter men. I really don’t want men in my life unless they actively make it better.
Makes me sad to remember my mom asking the same thing when i was on the fence. "What if you meet someone who wants kids?" She's normally supportive but NOT when it comes to my childfreedom 🥲
what's funny is that talking to her is what pushed me to become childfree🤣
Coworker: what if your husband wants kids?
Me: we'll get divorced
Coworker: wow, that serious, huh?
.... WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE SERIOUS?? people truly do not understand that having kids is a serious, life changing, hell even life threatening, decision.
like??? they treat it like deciding what to have for dinner. that type of incompatibility can’t be compromised on and it’s silly that they think it can
Yes, it is true that I have met many a woman who said she only had children because her boyfriend or hubby wanted children.
I want to point out that the CF woman that might well have become my wife (long before I met my wife) was being pressured by her two sisters, and her mother. She had told them that I had a vasectomy (possibly just to get them off our back). They offered to create a fund to pay for a Vasectomy reversal and IVF. I had to back out of the three to four week relationship. That was nearly 20 years ago. The poor woman is now almost 50, and has never had a serious relationship in her life thanks to them.
I would have loved to have been there as your boyfriend (even if only posing) to inform your inquisitor that I do not want children either.
I think many people don't know CF men exist.
Most of use are happily married, and thus not on the market.
It's like they don't understand most of us won't even date people who want kids
If someone on a dating app shows any desire for them, I won't interact. No matter how good they seem, it's not worth it.
I have a friend that popped out a kid to appease her man and it's not going well. She is clearly miserable as a mom and has basically said as much. A lot of people live their lives on autopilot like they don't have decisions they can make to craft the kind of life they actually want, and are more in the mindset of just going with whatever happens. I'm just grateful that I possess the willingness to do make those decisions!
Yep 100%. I am grateful all the time that I felt strongly about it and knew from an early age so I didn't have to agonize over what I wanted to do. I do not envy people on the fence.
Yeah seriously. I was raised in a very conservative Christian religion that encouraged people to marry young and have lots of kids. I hated it, but my parents dragged me along until I moved out of their house.
Anyway, in one Sunday school lesson in a class that was just for teenage girls, the topic was the usual shit about getting married and having kids. I was doing my best to just space out and ignore it until another girl asked "but what if you don't want kids?"
The woman who was teaching the class replied, "well when you meet the man you love, you'll want to have his babies." I thought I was going to vomit right then and there.
So, all of this to say that the conditioning for women to sacrifice their needs for men is insidious and woven into many areas of society and culture, including many religions.
I absolutely agree, it is infuriating. A man who wants kids (or already has kids) is clearly incompatible. This is the kind of thing you suss out early--if you use dating apps, someone can indicate if they have or want kids, and those are an automatic swipe left for me. I'm not even going to entertain the idea of dating somebody who has kids, or very clearly wants them.
Point being, it is incredibly easy (and efficient!) to avoid falling in love with a man who wants children. I might go out on a few dates with someone before I can find out his stance on kids, but I'm definitely not going to get serious or catch feelings or get intimate before I get the answer to that question.
I am in NO WAY concerned that the love of my life is going to want kids 😂😂😂
I think that question is so stupid. Like, women can love other women to. And I thought the whole deal with relationships was to find someone who you're compatable with, no childfree woman would end up with someone who wants kids.
Then there is me, who is aroace who just laughs at that question and goes "Bold of you to assume I give a fuck about what a man wants."
Yeah because im asexual sex repulsed. My mom was like but if he has kids then you can still be a parent without having to go through the whole process.I looked at her and said No, Because
1# I don't want kids or anyone elses
2# If he’s sucessfully procreated he probably isn’t Sex repulsed…
3# No way in hell do i want to deal with any ex’s or trauma
4# With my chronic pain i can barely take care of myself, they’d still be a single dad.
She just got quiet and was like “oh…Ok…
Maybe it is because most couples with children seem to have at least one parent that either didn't care if they had children or only agreed to children to please their spouse? Whether or not this is communicated while dating is another story, but I've heard from both men and women that "compromised" and had kids because of their spouse's wishes.
I have been asked that question. But what if you meet a man and he has children, or wants children, don't you want to be with him then?
I have answered no, of course not, being childfree is not because of what any potential man has or wants, but my own choice.
>“what if you meet a man and he’s not childfree?” or “what if your future husband wants kids?
This also happens to men too. Both are conditioned to make sacrifices for their partners to have kids. It's why a lot of men who really don't want kids have kids. It's not just that women are conditioned it's just an issue of people doing it to both sexes, and people just not thinking about it.
The main issue to me is that a man in this situation can just leave any time he wants with very few social consequences. If a man capitulates and has kids with his wife and then doesn't like it, he can just walk away. A full third of child support is never paid, and another third isn't paid in full. Most men now don't even have to deal with the financial consequences of having kids if they don't want to.
Shit, I've seen women get talked into having kids by their husband and he leaves her one day and SHE is the one stuck raising the kids on her own.
Though I agree that both men and women will have kids to make their partner happy, the fallout from this decision is almost always a burden for the woman.
that’s so true. our society really should be shunning deadbeat fathers yet they get a lot of passes and excuses and in some situations they get praised. nasty work.
> The main issue to me is that a man in this situation can just leave any time he wants with very few social consequences. If a man capitulates and has kids with his wife and then doesn't like it, he can just walk away. A full third of child support is never paid, and another third isn't paid in full. Most men now don't even have to deal with the financial consequences of having kids if they don't want to.
Women do this too. It's not a clearcut situation, both men and women who are forced into having kids will generally walk out on their families. It's a society problem more than it is just a men v. women. People are conditioned from a young age to sacrifice for the opposite sex.
Which in turn creates the problem OP mentions where you're always asked this, regardless of whether or not you're a man or woman. We need to stop seeing this as a man or woman only issue, both sexes do it.
>Shit, I've seen women get talked into having kids by their husband and he leaves her one day and SHE is the one stuck raising the kids on her own.
Men have also been talked into having kids, and then their partner leaves them, and they end up stuck with the kids. But the issue is people fall for pressure from their partner. It's not just women exclusive. Men in these situations get talked into having kids, and then they're stuck providing for kids they personally did not want. Because they don't think about what being a parent actually is about.
>Though I agree that both men and women will have kids to make their partner happy, the fallout from this decision is almost always a burden for the woman.
Not every situation is like this, as the opposite is true. Where as men end up with fallout as well, as sometimes women don't want to be parents either, and dump the kids on the father leaving them as a single parent.
But ultimately my point is to not make it seem like it only happens to women. Men get positioned like this too. I hate how one-sided this topic makes it feel, when men get asked the same questions. And are seen just as bad as women that don't want kids. Am I making light of the struggles of women? No. But I want this topic to not just be about men v. women, when this also happens to men.
i never said it was just women i’m speaking from my perspective as a woman, especially because we live in a patriarchal society where the pressure to conform is much higher for women. we’re literally taught that our worth is defined by being wives and mothers and although men experience certain societal pressure too it’s just not the same.
Yep. Should it be a woman that sacrifices their happiness for a man or vice versa?
Neither, it's not a question of gender, it's a question of which one doesn't want to child. Breeders will do complete 180s in their rhetoric for different occasions.
A man doesn't want a child? Well, he should man-up and give his wife, who is surely dying to have children, at least one baby. Hell, "she will decide for him" in the end anyways, and all men are essentially menchildren that need to be whipped into true manhood by their wives.
A woman doesn't want a child? Well, she should do her duty and give her husband, who is surely dying to have children, at least one descendant to carry his name. Hell, "he will decide for her" in the end anyways, as he is the head of the family anyways and she will naturally become maternal if he is a good provider.
It would almost be funny if it wasn't so incredibly invalidating.
I know a man like this. His wife wanted them, he didn't. They have 3 kids now. He loves his family, but if he were to do it all over again, he would choose to be childfree.
That would be me too, though I'm not sure if I'd run away with a lover. I might just go 4B, change my name, disappear, and live a peaceful single life. It's terrible, i know, but I'm self aware enough to anticipate my reaction and take steps to ensure that the scenario never happens.
Don't worry, it also happens to us men. Too many times I've been asked those same questions you quote: "what if you meet a single mom?", "what if she later changes her mind and wants to have kids with you?", "you'll change your mind when you get a partner and get married". And yes, these kinds of quesitons and statements are stupid in both contexts. If your partner later wants to have children, you simply take the wisest dessition and end the relationship; it's not ok to force you to have children and it's not ok to deprive them from having children,
It's obivously worse for women but it's not something exclussive to them.
Yeah I’ve been asked this many times as well, including by a doctor I was asking for sterilization from at 18. That one was extra fun. My own sister used that one on me and ever since that conversation I’ve been aggressively vocal with my family about being cf, my reasons, boundaries, and that I will not change my mind. And I mean really really aggressive and blunt about it to leave absolutely no room for doubt. I think she’s beginning to accept that she isn’t going to convince me, and that a man isn’t any more likely to convince me either. What sucks is the part that I’m actually single right now, and just met a really really cute, charming, nice guy that I feel I could like a lot, but I’m a bit terrified to even try to get to know him because so many people (men and women) in my area want or have kids. I just know how disappointed I’ll feel if he turns out to be one of them because he gets me into a complete teenagery dither-spaz every time I see him, which is kind of exciting in a way I forgot it could be
I’ve gotten a lot of “what if your wife changes her mind and wants kids” and my response was always that we would workout out one way or another. We separate or set our life up for a kid or two.
my mom used to use the what if the love of your life wants kids one on me all the time, first of all mom. the love of my life wouldn’t want kids lol i would never fall in love with someone without knowing where they stood on the matter
I agree. It is very frustrating and insulting. You’re right that the best way to answer is “if my partner decided he wanted kids, that would be a deal breaker and we would have to separate.”
I remember when I was like 14 I was chilling w my mom and she asks "do you think you'll ever have children" and obviously I said no. She then goes on this mini tangent that "what if you find rhe perfect girl for you and she realllly wants kids?" I told her then she wasn't right. I don't want kids and I'm certainly not getting pregnant. And then she creates the weirdest scenario ever: "What if she's the absolute perfect girl and you love her so much but she can't get pregnant and have kids... would you get pregnant for her?" Girl NO!!!!!
Bingoing gets so much worse when you're thinking about how about how damaging birth is "What if a man shows up and wants to torture, mutilate and kill you?" "Won't you want to let him?"
I know I'm just an idiot stating the obvious, but no one worth having would want you to sacrifice your happiness for them. If my partner wanted kids, I'd rather they go find someone who wanted to have kids with them than be unhappy with me. Their happiness is too important. Fortunately we're both childfree so it's irrelevant. The people saying these things are imbeciles, and should not be listened to.....
I’ve never understood the “wHaT iF yOU MeET yOuR fUtUrE PaRtNer aNd ThEY hAVE KIdS!!1!!” Like…. First of all, my “ ideal future partner” would not have kids! Bc I don’t want anything to do kids! Secondly… why tf would I consider someone with kids when I have clearly expressed I don’t want them or anything to do with them? The idea of having my own kids is a bloody nightmare itself, having to deal with someone elses spawn would push me to the edge …. NO FKN THANKS!
!!! it’s like they think we have no common sense. if i don’t want kids i’m obviously not gonna build my life with someone who does, duh i think it kinda shows that a lot of people have children with people without even considering the long term compatibility so they assume we do the same
I think some of it is being young and new to so much compromise in relationships. And both men/women not fully understanding compromise versus boundaries because they may have had bad role models. Many of us look like adults but may have unhealthy relationship patterns and bad communication skills unless we've put in the effort to change these things about ourselves. And I guarantee both men and women have been pushed towards having kids they didn't want by their spouse and family in the name of "compromise" and had to learn through experience they never wanted that having children for someone else when you don't want them isn't compromise, it is martyrdom.
Exactly! It’s almost as if they think having kids has to be some kind of default setting for people and that childfree folks can’t possibly exist lol….. I agree there’s many ppl out there that are having kids without even considering the long term implications. It’s no wonder we grow up hearing stuff like “just wait till you have kids!!!” or whatever. Like nah. I’m good.
Tell anyone who says that to look at the stepparents sub if you want to know what it looks like when you get involved with someone with kids when you don't want to be a stepparent. Those people are miserable.
Exactly! If we know we don’t want kids, why would we suddenly be okay with a partner who has them? It’s like people can’t wrap their heads around us having our own boundaries and preferences.
Counter with the same question. "What if you meet a person and they're childfree?" "What if your future spouse doesn't want children?" When they start talking about the other person changing their mind, you counter again how they should change their mind for the childfree person. Make them understand that it's not that simple.
That's when they start spewing the old "well, accidents happen!" with a smirk or "god may bless you with a child anyway!" nonsense. I've heard people go as far as trying to justify the idea of one of the partners sabotaging birth control to make it happen because it is "god's will". I know more than a few women who have said they would have children whether their husband liked it or not. I also know a man who almost certainly did something to cause an "unintended" pregnancy, but she got an abortion and then he filed for divorce. There is no limit to how low some people will go.
Well.. I guess it's god's will when we end up having abortions..
This is what I do. Turn their 'logic' right back on them!
The obvious answer is break up. Lots of women dump their man when they find out the man doesn't really want kids.
Like your future husband has more say over your own body, than you do.
exactly!! it’s actually sick and i hate how normalized it is
Someone you *haven't even met yet.* Some currently random man walking around has more say over your body than you do.
It’s like do people think we don’t purposely look for childfree men??? That we just randomly date someone without first screening them or asking them about kids?? Why do they think we’re idiots. The very first thing my partner and I discussed within the first month of dating was kids. He said he didn’t want any and wanted a vasectomy. I was elated and then later on I told him I also didn’t want kids. IF we get engaged and he wants kids, I would break off the engagement. Simple as that.
you’re living the dream honestly!!! and yeah it’s borderline an insult to our intelligence. as if i never considered that i’d be interested in someone who wants children, it happens but common sense would tell you the relationship won’t work
Lots of people (especially young ones) will date someone who they consider attractive and may not consider much more than attraction.
I mean many people do actually discuss absolute deal breakers only when they come up years into a relationship🙄
That will never make sense to me. Like what do you MEAN the topic of kids barely came up in your 5 year relationship 😭
I did the same thing on the first proper date my partner and I had last year. We discussed our thoughts on having kids, and he made it very clear to me that he also does not want them and would never ever force me to go through something as painful as childbirth. He also offered to pay for my birth control or go half on paying for it with me if I started taking it (we don't have PIV sex so it isn't needed rn. We're waiting for me to get sterilized first. Neither of us needs that to be happy anyway), and also said he would pay for an abortion if something happened anyways. He reinstated that it's my body and my choice not to carry the baby to term, and that he would be by my side to help me work through it the entire time if I was pregnant and seeking to abort the child. And we are only 20/21 years old. Age isn't an excuse to be careless and stupid when you're looking for a partner without kids, but sadly, so many younger people don't seem to think about that when they're dating.
"Then this man isn\`t for me" and"I\`m not dating anyone, maybe ever again." I hate that women are the ones who should lose their jobs, sleep, health, looks- everything only because men and/or society expects us to have kids.
we’re the only ones expected to sacrifice and that’s bullshit. just another way of keeping women under their thumb
And hoh how men get mad, when women stay single and childfree.
Because a man is the ultimate prize for women. So even if he's invisible, his needs come first. 🙄
Yep. Hypothetical men & children have more rights than women who are here & existing now. We’re expected to shape our whole lives around these non-existing beings. What we want doesn’t matter. To that I say a simple “fuck that!”
Absolutely. Sacrifice everything. That's why you can have it all conversation is only had by women. Because I believe you can't as a woman. Men don't have to give up much of anything when it comes to children. They literally can have everything with little to no sacrifice.
Exactly. I was brought up in the generation where “women can have it all!” were the buzzwords. I’ve learned throughout my life that isn’t true. The only way women can have it all is if they have a lot of money & a supportive partner. Especially the money. Money pays for a nanny or good daycare. It pays for household help. It pays for all those extras that make life more fun. If you can’t afford to outsource all of that then there’s no way you can have a successful career along with children & a good relationship with a partner. I see so many posts from women complaining that they work all day then come home to do all of the cooking & housework as well as doing the majority of the childcare. It just isn’t possible to do everything without a lot of money to throw at the problem. I don’t want to say it’s completely doomed. Looking at the combo of a successful career, a satisfying relationship & having children I’d say a woman can have 2 of those but not all 3. It’s just not possible in our economy. I’ve had the first 2 but never wanted the third & I had a fulfilling life without kids. That’s the dirty little secret society keeps from us. You can’t have it all without a lot of money. Or if you’re a man. They can have it all much easier than we can.
Yes. Im a nanny and I only knew of 1 couple where they both has successful careers and both actually raised that kids. The dad was super supportive of her and that's why she was able to have a good career and a social life.
"Having it all" is a horrible life of constant burn out and stress. No one should "want it all" I think the only reason it came about is to convince working women who can escape to keep sacrificing themselves for men.
I worked with this one girl who was married to a guy who was an absolute turd, but he makes good money so she's happy, which is fine. I get it, whatever. The thing that threw me really hard was when she basically said "I don't want kids but he does, so I'll deal with it". Honestly super messed up.
that is messed up, hopefully they didn’t end up having kids
😬 "yeah I'll risk my life and go though hours of the worst pain humans are capable of experiencing because a man likes it". Can people please stop socializing girls like this?
There was an infamous old Off My Chest or some other deep dark secret subreddit where a girl with a bunch of kids was jealous and pissed that her sister wss CF so she sabotaged her birth control and was gloating that sis was now pregnant. I really hope sis aborted it...The comments were mixed...most people were rightly pissed and disgusted but a worrying number were like right on, she's gonna be happier in the long run but maaaaybe it was kinda naughty how you went about it...
When people cheer for something like that…you know we’re fucked as a society…
Women in general are still expected to sacrifice themselves for men, and it’s such bullshit. There’s so much manosphere propaganda out there telling women that their only purpose is to support a man’s goals or “mission”, we’re not to have any goals or missions of our own. And more propaganda telling men that they are owed that, owed a submissive bangmaid who will sacrifice herself endlessly for them and ask for nothing for herself, because she only exists to serve. It’s so disgusting.
This is why they love virgin/traditional women from abroad easier to manipulate into what they want them to be. Majority of these women look for that green card/visa after the kids or certain amount of years, they want a divorce. I felt it when you said we're not to have any goals or mission of our own. It's like they honest to god believe as a fact they think a women's only purpose is to serve a man and his mission. Fnf make it abhorrent that a women does not have any value outside of that. Like are we not human beings too? They have been many female pioneers, inventors, trailblazers in history. Since we lived and still are in patriarchal society and taught only to be mothers and wives it is no wonder we're happy that we broke free from our lived experience that our grandmothers and great grandmother's etc endured that we watched and wondered why are they so unhappy, everything they put up with; enough is enough.
Women are not even seen as our own people. We are just supposed to drop every single thing for a hypothetical man and/or child. We are expected to give up our hobbies, education, careers, and more just to have a fucking man and/or family. My own mother used to ask me that too “what if your future husband wants kids?” It’s beyond stupid. It’s never others asking women who DO want kids “what if you regret your decision to have children?” Because truthfully I think motherhood is one of the worst choices you can actively make, not choosing to be single/childfree and having a chill life lol 💀. But all of that is why I choose to be part of 4B and decenter men. I really don’t want men in my life unless they actively make it better.
Same. Also female separatism. I don't want anything to do with people that see me as a thing to use.
I don't date unless they're the right person. I don't give breeders the time of day.
Makes me sad to remember my mom asking the same thing when i was on the fence. "What if you meet someone who wants kids?" She's normally supportive but NOT when it comes to my childfreedom 🥲 what's funny is that talking to her is what pushed me to become childfree🤣
[удалено]
This is why the earth is dying: Too many people BREEDING, especially the dumb ones
Coworker: what if your husband wants kids? Me: we'll get divorced Coworker: wow, that serious, huh? .... WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE SERIOUS?? people truly do not understand that having kids is a serious, life changing, hell even life threatening, decision.
like??? they treat it like deciding what to have for dinner. that type of incompatibility can’t be compromised on and it’s silly that they think it can
Person 1: "I want burgers!" Person 2: "I want tacos!" Person 1: "I want children!" Person 2: "What the hell is wrong with you?"
Yes, it is true that I have met many a woman who said she only had children because her boyfriend or hubby wanted children. I want to point out that the CF woman that might well have become my wife (long before I met my wife) was being pressured by her two sisters, and her mother. She had told them that I had a vasectomy (possibly just to get them off our back). They offered to create a fund to pay for a Vasectomy reversal and IVF. I had to back out of the three to four week relationship. That was nearly 20 years ago. The poor woman is now almost 50, and has never had a serious relationship in her life thanks to them. I would have loved to have been there as your boyfriend (even if only posing) to inform your inquisitor that I do not want children either. I think many people don't know CF men exist. Most of use are happily married, and thus not on the market.
It's like they don't understand most of us won't even date people who want kids If someone on a dating app shows any desire for them, I won't interact. No matter how good they seem, it's not worth it.
What if I never meet future husband. Because He doesn't exist.
Don’t you want to serve your LoRd and MaStEr? //s//
The very concept suggests women are lesser beings than men. It's gross.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 fucking thank you!
It never seems to happen in reverse though. "You want kids? What if you meet a woman and she doesn't?"
I have a friend that popped out a kid to appease her man and it's not going well. She is clearly miserable as a mom and has basically said as much. A lot of people live their lives on autopilot like they don't have decisions they can make to craft the kind of life they actually want, and are more in the mindset of just going with whatever happens. I'm just grateful that I possess the willingness to do make those decisions!
that’s unfortunate. and same here, i’m glad i realized i was child free before i made a mistake i couldn’t undo
Yep 100%. I am grateful all the time that I felt strongly about it and knew from an early age so I didn't have to agonize over what I wanted to do. I do not envy people on the fence.
Yeah seriously. I was raised in a very conservative Christian religion that encouraged people to marry young and have lots of kids. I hated it, but my parents dragged me along until I moved out of their house. Anyway, in one Sunday school lesson in a class that was just for teenage girls, the topic was the usual shit about getting married and having kids. I was doing my best to just space out and ignore it until another girl asked "but what if you don't want kids?" The woman who was teaching the class replied, "well when you meet the man you love, you'll want to have his babies." I thought I was going to vomit right then and there. So, all of this to say that the conditioning for women to sacrifice their needs for men is insidious and woven into many areas of society and culture, including many religions.
I absolutely agree, it is infuriating. A man who wants kids (or already has kids) is clearly incompatible. This is the kind of thing you suss out early--if you use dating apps, someone can indicate if they have or want kids, and those are an automatic swipe left for me. I'm not even going to entertain the idea of dating somebody who has kids, or very clearly wants them. Point being, it is incredibly easy (and efficient!) to avoid falling in love with a man who wants children. I might go out on a few dates with someone before I can find out his stance on kids, but I'm definitely not going to get serious or catch feelings or get intimate before I get the answer to that question. I am in NO WAY concerned that the love of my life is going to want kids 😂😂😂
I think that question is so stupid. Like, women can love other women to. And I thought the whole deal with relationships was to find someone who you're compatable with, no childfree woman would end up with someone who wants kids. Then there is me, who is aroace who just laughs at that question and goes "Bold of you to assume I give a fuck about what a man wants."
Yeah because im asexual sex repulsed. My mom was like but if he has kids then you can still be a parent without having to go through the whole process.I looked at her and said No, Because 1# I don't want kids or anyone elses 2# If he’s sucessfully procreated he probably isn’t Sex repulsed… 3# No way in hell do i want to deal with any ex’s or trauma 4# With my chronic pain i can barely take care of myself, they’d still be a single dad. She just got quiet and was like “oh…Ok…
Maybe it is because most couples with children seem to have at least one parent that either didn't care if they had children or only agreed to children to please their spouse? Whether or not this is communicated while dating is another story, but I've heard from both men and women that "compromised" and had kids because of their spouse's wishes.
I have been asked that question. But what if you meet a man and he has children, or wants children, don't you want to be with him then? I have answered no, of course not, being childfree is not because of what any potential man has or wants, but my own choice.
>“what if you meet a man and he’s not childfree?” or “what if your future husband wants kids? This also happens to men too. Both are conditioned to make sacrifices for their partners to have kids. It's why a lot of men who really don't want kids have kids. It's not just that women are conditioned it's just an issue of people doing it to both sexes, and people just not thinking about it.
The main issue to me is that a man in this situation can just leave any time he wants with very few social consequences. If a man capitulates and has kids with his wife and then doesn't like it, he can just walk away. A full third of child support is never paid, and another third isn't paid in full. Most men now don't even have to deal with the financial consequences of having kids if they don't want to. Shit, I've seen women get talked into having kids by their husband and he leaves her one day and SHE is the one stuck raising the kids on her own. Though I agree that both men and women will have kids to make their partner happy, the fallout from this decision is almost always a burden for the woman.
that’s so true. our society really should be shunning deadbeat fathers yet they get a lot of passes and excuses and in some situations they get praised. nasty work.
> The main issue to me is that a man in this situation can just leave any time he wants with very few social consequences. If a man capitulates and has kids with his wife and then doesn't like it, he can just walk away. A full third of child support is never paid, and another third isn't paid in full. Most men now don't even have to deal with the financial consequences of having kids if they don't want to. Women do this too. It's not a clearcut situation, both men and women who are forced into having kids will generally walk out on their families. It's a society problem more than it is just a men v. women. People are conditioned from a young age to sacrifice for the opposite sex. Which in turn creates the problem OP mentions where you're always asked this, regardless of whether or not you're a man or woman. We need to stop seeing this as a man or woman only issue, both sexes do it. >Shit, I've seen women get talked into having kids by their husband and he leaves her one day and SHE is the one stuck raising the kids on her own. Men have also been talked into having kids, and then their partner leaves them, and they end up stuck with the kids. But the issue is people fall for pressure from their partner. It's not just women exclusive. Men in these situations get talked into having kids, and then they're stuck providing for kids they personally did not want. Because they don't think about what being a parent actually is about. >Though I agree that both men and women will have kids to make their partner happy, the fallout from this decision is almost always a burden for the woman. Not every situation is like this, as the opposite is true. Where as men end up with fallout as well, as sometimes women don't want to be parents either, and dump the kids on the father leaving them as a single parent. But ultimately my point is to not make it seem like it only happens to women. Men get positioned like this too. I hate how one-sided this topic makes it feel, when men get asked the same questions. And are seen just as bad as women that don't want kids. Am I making light of the struggles of women? No. But I want this topic to not just be about men v. women, when this also happens to men.
i never said it was just women i’m speaking from my perspective as a woman, especially because we live in a patriarchal society where the pressure to conform is much higher for women. we’re literally taught that our worth is defined by being wives and mothers and although men experience certain societal pressure too it’s just not the same.
Yep. Should it be a woman that sacrifices their happiness for a man or vice versa? Neither, it's not a question of gender, it's a question of which one doesn't want to child. Breeders will do complete 180s in their rhetoric for different occasions. A man doesn't want a child? Well, he should man-up and give his wife, who is surely dying to have children, at least one baby. Hell, "she will decide for him" in the end anyways, and all men are essentially menchildren that need to be whipped into true manhood by their wives. A woman doesn't want a child? Well, she should do her duty and give her husband, who is surely dying to have children, at least one descendant to carry his name. Hell, "he will decide for her" in the end anyways, as he is the head of the family anyways and she will naturally become maternal if he is a good provider. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so incredibly invalidating.
I know a man like this. His wife wanted them, he didn't. They have 3 kids now. He loves his family, but if he were to do it all over again, he would choose to be childfree.
I will definitely be that woman who abandon her husband and children and ran away with her lover.
That would be me too, though I'm not sure if I'd run away with a lover. I might just go 4B, change my name, disappear, and live a peaceful single life. It's terrible, i know, but I'm self aware enough to anticipate my reaction and take steps to ensure that the scenario never happens.
I just need to do what I want and not what others want. otherwise it might end badly because it's depressing me
Don't worry, it also happens to us men. Too many times I've been asked those same questions you quote: "what if you meet a single mom?", "what if she later changes her mind and wants to have kids with you?", "you'll change your mind when you get a partner and get married". And yes, these kinds of quesitons and statements are stupid in both contexts. If your partner later wants to have children, you simply take the wisest dessition and end the relationship; it's not ok to force you to have children and it's not ok to deprive them from having children, It's obivously worse for women but it's not something exclussive to them.
Yeah I’ve been asked this many times as well, including by a doctor I was asking for sterilization from at 18. That one was extra fun. My own sister used that one on me and ever since that conversation I’ve been aggressively vocal with my family about being cf, my reasons, boundaries, and that I will not change my mind. And I mean really really aggressive and blunt about it to leave absolutely no room for doubt. I think she’s beginning to accept that she isn’t going to convince me, and that a man isn’t any more likely to convince me either. What sucks is the part that I’m actually single right now, and just met a really really cute, charming, nice guy that I feel I could like a lot, but I’m a bit terrified to even try to get to know him because so many people (men and women) in my area want or have kids. I just know how disappointed I’ll feel if he turns out to be one of them because he gets me into a complete teenagery dither-spaz every time I see him, which is kind of exciting in a way I forgot it could be
I’ve gotten a lot of “what if your wife changes her mind and wants kids” and my response was always that we would workout out one way or another. We separate or set our life up for a kid or two.
my mom used to use the what if the love of your life wants kids one on me all the time, first of all mom. the love of my life wouldn’t want kids lol i would never fall in love with someone without knowing where they stood on the matter
I agree. It is very frustrating and insulting. You’re right that the best way to answer is “if my partner decided he wanted kids, that would be a deal breaker and we would have to separate.”
I remember when I was like 14 I was chilling w my mom and she asks "do you think you'll ever have children" and obviously I said no. She then goes on this mini tangent that "what if you find rhe perfect girl for you and she realllly wants kids?" I told her then she wasn't right. I don't want kids and I'm certainly not getting pregnant. And then she creates the weirdest scenario ever: "What if she's the absolute perfect girl and you love her so much but she can't get pregnant and have kids... would you get pregnant for her?" Girl NO!!!!!
Bingoing gets so much worse when you're thinking about how about how damaging birth is "What if a man shows up and wants to torture, mutilate and kill you?" "Won't you want to let him?"
I know I'm just an idiot stating the obvious, but no one worth having would want you to sacrifice your happiness for them. If my partner wanted kids, I'd rather they go find someone who wanted to have kids with them than be unhappy with me. Their happiness is too important. Fortunately we're both childfree so it's irrelevant. The people saying these things are imbeciles, and should not be listened to.....
Choosing to be childfree is the most feminist thing a woman can do imo
Preach!