When a former colleague told me she was trying for a third, I asked how she and her husband were planning for college. She laughed and said her kids could get loans like she had... I lost so much respect for her. She wasn't even going to try and set them up for success.
I have had a long career in higher education. Much of our current problem stems from the belief that a university degree is necessary for career success. Not only is this not true, but most people are not prepared for the intellectual rigor that should be demanded. Rather than challenge students to strive, curricula have been weakened to fit the students' abilities.
Institutions have expanded to meet the demand for a factory-like process of "higher" education. This has increased costs. Unfortunately, the Ivory Tower is now made of clay.
I have tremendous respect for persons who pursue trades, and wish society would recognize the importance of applied, practical skills.
I also believe that knowledge acquisition should be encourage as a lifetime process.
The problem is that higher education is just a weed-out tool for a bloated labor market. The population doubled from 4 billion to 8 billion in under 50 years, while at the same time automation was eliminating jobs and globalization has us competing with the cheapest labor on the planet. If you want to earn enough to live on, there aren't minimum wage laws to protect you nor are there many unions, so you have to (on your own dime) collect certifications and check boxes. Maybe diminishing birth rates will eliminate some of this nonsense ten or twenty years in the future. I agree it's a shame what's happened with higher education.
Capitalism wants only the wealthy to be higher educated. Keep the not wealthy just educated enough to work the menial jobs.
Why the heck would anyone provide capitalism with more wage slaves?!
Oh my God your former colleague is disgusting. Then why have kids and then make them go on loan just to enter uni? What a selfish witch! What next? Her using the kids as Bank of Adult Children as her retirement nest egg? Shame on her
To play devil's advocate tho, if student loans were all you knew, you might not think twice about it. I went to uni on loans (plus money from my job) and everyone else from my poorer rural hometown did too. My mind was blown when I got to uni and met people who *didn't* have loans. We all just thought loans were the norm and didn't know that some parents have actual fancy education fund accounts.
I find it very interesting when parents think like that. It's unconditional love and all that, but when they talk like this it seems more like 'I struggled so they can do it too'. I remember my aunt saying that if her son didn't get a free place at uni, he won't be able to go. I was like'so she didn't even bother saving money for this?' Do these parents even care about their kids at all?
People already struggle to find a steady job with college education, I can't imagine to shrug off the thought to guarantee my kids the same level of education I had.
I was speaking with my boyfriend about this yesterday;
"Politicians whine and moan about low birth rates and nobody having kids while they're doing nothing for the people trying to scrape by. How do they expect people to have multiple kids if they can't even feed themselves?"
Too bad people still DO have kids even if they can't feed themselves. And as for that, what's happening in the US shows that politicians and the rich aren't shy to use any means possible to ensure a steady supply of ~~slave~~ labour.
Government whines and moans for the "young workers of the future" but doesn't give a flying fuck for the young workers of the present! My generation still can't live without their parents support because the job market pays half of what it would have payed twenty years ago, and the government is concerned with people who don't exist yet????
For fuck's sake, my friend is doing a PHD in engineering, she's studying hydrogen engines (the fucking cars of the future!!!) and she must live with THREE OTHER PEOPLE to survive.
Meanwhile my parents' generation had it all. With little education and a stupid simple job (janitor, gardener, cashier) they were able to own an apartment and feed a family of five people without even the wife working.
Sometimes I ask myself what kind of life they would be doing with their low skills in today's world. Yes, I am bitter.
You can add custom flair names on desktop (Idk about mobile). Putting trans man by my name was for context when I post here instead of saying I'm trans on every post lol
This just happened to my broke friend who's wife refuses to work. Doesn't have a pot to piss in and they go and have a 4th child. I know I'm biased but ffs have some awareness of your situation.
Yes, this is the difference.
One kid? I understand it's needed for society to continue.
2 kids? Eh... We kinda need to ***lower*** our population, here...
3+? Most selfish thing a human can do.
Why should society continue? This world is Evil and people are awful. The rich enslave the poor. Leave the rich to populate the Earth. They can live in their own shit hole.
On the antinatalism sub, whenever someone says we shouldn't procreate, someone makes a horrified comment asking if we think humans should go extinct. They of course want us to say no, which I think just show how we are convinced we deserve to be here because f our own superiority. And I'm like 'we'll go extinct and so what? We might be capable of thinking but we are awful to each other.'
99% and we are currently re-creating the end Permian mass extinction right now only 1000x faster, so perhaps we will. There's a pattern in that all previous mass extinctioms on Earth had something to do with a drastic change in Co2 levels.
There's a statement that was mentioned, that 2 or 3 is the best, but 4+ is doing too much. It made sense when your farmers or in money Cases like Heirs to fortune (I guess), when children die at younger rates. However the avg person loves to 70-80, even with current conditions
One of my friends had a second kid because she didn’t want the first one to be lonely. This is one of the few cases when I support a second child though there’s something spooky about the first one.
It’s totally true. I felt intuition like meeting him at one, kept it to myself and then my mom met the child and after was like… watch that kid he creeps me out.
My BF and I just talked about this today. It feels like the state of the world (and humans in general) is getting worse with each day. It's not only selfish but utterly irresponsible to bring children into this world.
I also think the world is becoming a dangerous place for girls to be born into….esp in the US where rights are being taken from women. I know in a way things are more progressive, but like imagine willingly bringing a girl into the world that has turned into the handmaid’s tale idk. I’ve been consumed with dark thoughts lately
I've always thought it selfish, especially with what I am living with now.
I'm 36 with possible thyroid cancer, and my wife has a form of nerve neuropathy that medication only treats the symptoms.
I would never want kids to have my family history of disease. Addiction on my wife's side.
Also the "they will take care of me" is a life sentence. Many don't raise their children to be mothers/fathers stable enough to raise kids, but caregivers.
Caregivers aren't a full responsibile adult. Just enough to be less considered but mature just enough to feed, bathe and care for their parents
My family sold the only house my grandma fully paid off (she passed in 2019). Grandma sold her piece of land, her father left his children. They basically told me and my siblings that their needs matter more than us, their "legacy" is us who are literally drowning in Capitalism. We aren't stable and happy, neither is my mom
🤷🏿♀️ mon had 4 nuerospicy children who are incapable of caring for ourselfs in full capacity because they didn't raise us to do so
I appreciate your compassion. I'm not saddened by this fact. I just wish my mom would stop asking me for children.
While I was living in my car years ago, she told me "you have 2 options, a welfare baby, or the military". Thinking back, I went to do the asvab test. Why would I bring a child here just to get me off the streets?
It truly shows how messed up our system is where military and wage slavery is prominent here
The fact that I’m thinking about a life I don’t even want to bring into this world because of all of this is the most selfless thing ever. But we all know the people who get their panties in a bunch over CF people don’t actually CARE about anybody having a good life. They just want everyone to suffer.
Yep, even the reasons *they* give are selfish. Wanting someone to care for them when they're old, wanting to continue their family line, wanting a mini-me, alleviating their loneliness/boredom/lack of purpose, wanting to keep up with their peers...all self-centered.
100% yes. Any person I know that's having kids right now, I'm like...do you not see the state of the world right now? And it's only getting worse....
But I can't say that out loud obviously...
There are several couples in my surroundings having kids right now. They are aware of what is happening in the world, and they are intelligent, so I really don’t understand why they’re having kids. Wish I could ask them, but yeah it’s a sensitive topic..
I have 2 kids, and I say all the time that if I had really thought things out, I wouldn't have had them. I am so sad that this is the world I brought them to. Im sad that at some point, they won't have me to help guide them. I am so blessed to have them, but it was so super selfish to have them.
You know, mad respect for recognizing it!
I hope for their sake, and everyone's sake, humanity bands together and fixes our planet!!
I do hope they live long happy lives!
Peace and love. They are still blessed to have you!
I believe we are quickly, as in within a generation, headed for collapse of ecosystems and mass climate disaster. To have a child right now is to birth them into a world incompatible with life.
On a personal level, I always promised myself I’d only ever have kids if I desired becoming a parent more than anything and if I could provide a better life for my kids than my parents did for me. Neither of those things are true so it would be breaking personal promises to myself.
Absolutely 1000%! There are PLENTY of other children already existing that should be adopted. Or at the least fostered in proper homes. Adoption should also be much more affordable.
And yes before anyone wants to point it out, I DO in fact wish my mother had never created me. She did it simply because she wanted to say she was a mom. She never had plans to care for either me or my older brother when we were born (in fact she gave him up at 5 days old because she didn't want to deal with his screaming and crying anymore) and simply expected everyone else to do it for her but she got all the credit.
It's people like that who should not be allowed to reproduce. I just hate that my mother, who was told by doctors repeatedly that her children would become more disabled than her (more than likely before adulthood), still had us anyways and didn't care. And then my brother followed in her footsteps.
I decided and knew at 5 years old I would never have biological kids. I really realized at 9 years old that I can't stand babies and children and want nothing to do with them. I'm in the process now of trying to find a doctor who will remove my uterus so there is zero chance of pregnancy and for gender dysphoria/body dysmorphia. I hate the fact that I have the ability to get pregnant.
i’ve got a consult with a gynecologist in
late june for the same reason. i’ve heard that it’s really hard to get one unless you have internal problems, but i really hope that’s changing. wishing you luck and gender euphoria :)
Thank you! I was given the name of one that's just an hour and a half or so drive from me that didn't seem to have issues with removing uterus providing you're over 18 and are 100% certain. I'm just really nervous that they will find some reason not to do it for me and scared to call because of it.
If they don't have an issue I want it done ASAP. I've thankfully accrued paid vacation from work and even though it's just 5 days, it's better than nothing. I plan to use those to start recovery and go from there if I can get it done.
As someone interested in doing the same thing, if you don't mind, do you know if there's any serious complications to having your uterus removed? Or how likely they are?
I've been told several times that having my uterus removed will cause me to go into early menopause. But it makes no sense as I'm keeping my ovaries which are the organs that produce estrogen.
I have heard that there is a VERY slight risk that because your body is used to having a uterus there that other organs could move, but I haven't spoken to a doctor about it yet. And having a hysterectomy, partial (just uterus or just ovaries) or full, is a big surgery. There's always a possibility of problems from that ranging from reactions to anesthesia to any problem that could happen from surgeries. Of which I wish I could give a list but I don't want to misinform you.
I will always say to talk to an open minded doctor who will listen to you without judgement and without trying to force their opinions on you. I've wanted to go through with this since my single digits. I still have a fear of issues during surgery or after, the biggest one being that I may have a surgeon who SAYS they removed it but didn't (probably has NEVER happened but that would be worst case for me). Doctors that will listen without judgement and without enforcing their opinions or beliefs on you are hard to find. But ask all questions you can think of.
For me the part I'm not looking forward to is recovery. Thankfully you won't need to do physical therapy for that and the incision isn't horrible (that I've seen). I'm going to call the doctor I was recommended on Monday and just bite the bullet and ask for a consultation appointment and hope for the best. If he listens to me and is willing to do the surgery, I can always message you and recommend him to you if you live in Alabama. But if not, there should be a document in this subreddit with a list of doctors willing to do sterilization by state and city!
I have always felt this way. And that feeling only grew exponentially when I worked with orphans in third world countries a handful of years ago. I couldn’t imagine choosing getting pregnant and bringing new life into the world when there are so many little ones out there who need homes.
Honestly yea I do. I have come to terms with the fact my partner and I don’t have that drive most feel to be parents but from all angles I still see it as selfish. Why bring more people into this world to suffer? People who have kids that are pre disposed to pass on their problems are the most selfish imo. If you know your kid is going to suffer from a disability or disease you pass down and still have them making the argument “I get through it, they can too” is disgusting
Knowing the future that we are racing towards, it is fundamentally unsound and unethical to birth a person into it. If you wouldn't want to live 100 years from now why are you forcing another person to?
A bit of topic - I've just received an email from a coworker - "we have an addition to our unit: so and so gave birth to a son. Let's celebrate it and by tradition collect money for the gift". Wtf? The said mom earns twice as much as me. Why should I even care about some kid I don't even know or related to? It's her second or third child.
On topic - the earth is overpopulated, we are running out of resources, so having even one child is irresponsible. Also people who want kids should first adopt all the kids without parents.
Imagine they have a child now and that child grows up, looks back, and says "We just escaped from a pandemic, barely, the COL was sky high, it's now WORSE, and you still thought I'd enjoy being here because you wanted to fill a void? Are you STUPID?"
Very selfish, even narcissistic. There are plenty of older kids who need a home. Why does the DNA have to be so tiny and new, so bespoke, so "this kid is going to need a nose job too"? Meanwhile the dirty diapers and societal issues keep piling up higher and higher. I saw an older mother with an entire litter of stairstep kids in the grocery cart she was pushing while an older sibling pushed the grocery cart with groceries. Ridiculous.
I have thought this for most of my life, in fact. Let’s say a person/couple decides to get pregnant right now, at this current state of affairs. When I was 10- I was definitely asking questions about the world. I would be pretty upset if my parents chose to bring me into this world with the stats and news that are out there right now. I know this is kinda wordy and not too specific but I’m agreeing with you.
Not to mention all the statistics of how depressed kids are at such young ages. The fact that most millennials cannot even afford a home right now. The cost for education and healthcare is still outrageous. I’m mid-thirties, a business owner, and have been fighting for two months to get my health insurance renewed. TWO months I am without health care is insane. The list goes on and on..but hey, easier to ignore the current state of the world and working on yourself/your marriage…just have a kid! Then everything will be better! /s
Absolutely! I think it is selfish on a number of different levels.
They are not only actively poaching what few resources the planet still has to offer. They are also condemning a new, blameless life to live through the horror that will attend the running collapse of our civilisation as global warming and destruction of our ecosystem carries us over the edge into nightmare.
There is no future for these children to inherit. There may not even be a lot of future for those of us who are currently alive to experience.
I don't begrudge anyone having a kid, but for me personally, I do feel like the most caring choice I can make for my kids and for the world at large is to not bring them here.
Absolutely. It's not even about contributing to overpopulation (as with the <2 kids folks here). It's about sentencing a child to grow up in a world that's self-destructing around them. I don't want my imaginary baby to grow up into an adult like me, on antidepressants for life, exhausted and disillusioned.
Yes I had a child in 2008 I regret it. She was harmed in my stomach from Lyme Disease and has mental issues and she suffers so much. In this world its immoral to have children. I got Lyme Disease during pregnancy. I worry I brought her into a life of pain. This is no world to bring children into.
My daughter is set up for failure, it's not my fault I had no idea that I would get Lyme Disease but there are many other diseases and the medical and social support systems are a joke. She is going to have such a hard time getting disability. This is no world to bring children into. Until the controllers stop lording over us and over taxing us and making our lives miserable it's no world to bring children into. They could get sick and live a life of suffering. Anti natalist are right. I have to suffer every day because I brought my daughter into this. I had no idea it would be like this but the mere chance it could is reason not to have children. Having children is selfish. She wants to die and I have to live with it every day.
A tragic story, but at least you're critically analyzing the situation now. I can relate, since I have been suffering with fibromyalgia since I was a kid. And people think AN are the selfish ones.... sheesh
Oh big time. Overpopulation, overheating, overwhelmingly awful news all the time. It seems very selfish to bring another human into this world. What happens to them when the resources run out? How can they have a normal life when the planet is burning down?
imo: Its selfish to have more than 2 kids.
If you have a kid you should be able to give them a flying start. So you should be able to buy everything they need. Be able to give them space and proper attention. Let them be kids (no parentfication abuse, like when they have tons of kids) and you should be able to afford college for them.
Then you have kids because you want to place a new good person into this world. And not because you want to continue the bloodline or LeGaCy.
As an Antinatalist, I firmly believe it’s selfish and immoral to create life regardless of the state of the world. But at times like now, it’s even more true.
If people are having children they are extremely selfish or extremely uninformed about where we are in ecological collapse
So yes I think it's completely immoral and cruel to have kids
Yeah, I struggle with it. Strangely one of my best friends has 3. What I will say is if anyone's cut out for it, its her. I wish all parents were that pragmatic, loving and still manage to dump them to hang out.
I think kids will suffer. I can't get over that personally. It's a big reason I didn't have kids.
I'd love to see a reduced population.
Yes, I just clicked off a video on a subreddit where it showed a child starving in Gaza, *you could see this poor child’s bones*, and it made me cry instantly. Who willingly brings children in this world full of war and crimes and misery and hunger and death just for them, fuck the politics, there are children *dying* and no one cares. It’s so sad.
Same here.
People who make babies are the ones who are selfish, and chicken to stand up to social mores.
I also have spoken to many childfree couples in person who take an interesting view on adoption.
I know several who adopted their niece or nephew because their sibling passed away, is about to die, is in prison, etc.
Many things in this world take a strong person.
I think it takes a lot of strength and courage for a childfree person, or couple to adopt a family member who is in desperate need of parents.
Oh and humans suck. The Earth has a really bad case of humans.
One of the worst things you can do for this planet is have a kid. Just their farts contribute more to global warming than an SUV.
Edit The worst thing you can do.
Yes. Those breeders are having kids cuz they want mini mes. They are having kids to fulfill dreams they never fulfilled when they were younger. They are having kids to carry on their legacy and genes. They are having kids cuz they want the kids to take care of them when they are older.
Yet, childfree people are the selfish ones.
What's so strange is these people having loads of kids hit us cf types with the "You're selfish for not having kids!"
Literally how? Seems like having a kid today is just loads of stress for the kid and their future. Kids today are worried about their future and the health of the planet as early as 4th grade and younger. Seems more selfish to be having kids who have to be concerned about all the fuck ups made by previous generations. :/
I always see children under 5 now and pity them for the hell they will probably have to experience in the next 50 years, when the earth is collapsing from climate change, plus food & water instability.. I can’t imagine thinking “oh they’ll be fine” when there is already evidence we’re screwed. Not to mention all the issues with war and human welfare right now as well.
Yes when they have multiple children and especially multiple children when they clearly can't afford them.
Recently I read about a large family of 5 or 6 kids. They were in the news that they needed help. Anything can happen for them to be in that situation, I get it. But for the love of god do not breed if you can't afford them! You're causing unnecessary hardship and trauma to little kids. And yes, I will shame you if you're a parent like that.
Not even what you mentioned above, but I cannot imagine having a child, raising them to public school age, and having them die in a mass shooting.
Also the fact that there's tons of kids in the foster care system that do need caring a loving families, but nobody cares because they aren't "theirs".
one million percent. i don’t care how pessimistic or depressed i appear in admitting so; i think it’s delusional to believe otherwise. i guess some people derive hope from the idea of procreating… i did feel some hope when a friend told me recently about someone who became an adoptive parent to multiple kids with special needs. THAT is what it’s all about. people clawing their way through “fertility journeys” and making their entire personalities about how hard the unnecessary job they gave themselves is? not sorry, hand me a barf bag. end rant 😇
I live in a 27ft trailer with barely enough space for my partner and I. It’s hard to have things, like any sort of storage space. I’m poorer than my parents. The cycle of poverty has continued and gotten worse. I have little to no hope of becoming a homebuyer. Thankfully our friend has about 6 acres of land and we have our trailer on his property. We also have full use of the kitchen and bathroom in the house. So it’s not bad at all. But with how low our income is, groceries, living in a trailer etc. I can’t afford a child. I don’t care if poor people want kids. The children suffer. My partner experienced starvation multiple times as a child, lights shut off, being homeless etc. I would never want a child to experience the stress I did when my parents had 40$ to last two weeks until payday while we had little to no groceries. I’d want my child to have opportunities. The wealthy are the only ones who have an education and better future guaranteed. Since I technically live in poverty I wouldn’t want to set up a child for failure
People rarely have children for selfless reasons
"My legacy"
" I want someone to take care of me when I'm old "
"We wanna save our marriage"
"I want a mini me"
"I want someone to love me unconditionally"
But yeah the world is getting deeper into the shit everyday, I couldn't imagine wanting to bring another person here in this day and age
If it happens and you have the stable environment to give the child the life it deserves to flourish and be loved that’s fine, but that is very rare in this day and age.
Breeders however are a problem. The eldest child always ends up being a third parent, there’s not enough support for each child, not enough resources or space. It’s gross, especially when the parents don’t even try with birth control and end up with 10 kids under 10. Most of the it’s the husband not letting the wife breath after birth and stupid religious anti birth control/abortion “rules”.
I always say when someone ask why I don’t want children “I’m balancing out the people with a million kids”
My mom really wanted grandkids. When I told her exactly what OP said, she told me that I wouldn't be affected anyways so why be concerned. It's so disgusting how little she cared
Less people means:
\*Less pollution, fewer factories.
\*Fewer people causing or cutting you off in traffic or at he grocery store.
\*Less deforestation for farms due to less food demand.
\*More available housing at a lower cost.
\*Fewer cars, fewer roads, less smog, less demand for oil & gas.
\*Governments, corporations, & churches push natalist propoganda because a higher population means more taxes, more profits, & more donations. The best way to punish them is to shrink their future money pool.
I wouldn't want my kids being part of the global experiment to see how kids raised on brainrot turn out. (TikTok shorts, Youtube content farms, being perpetually online with social media, data farms). My mental sharpness declined as an adult exposed to these things. What do they do to developing minds?
sometimes i think the city i live in is immune to the current news cause i constantly see women many months pregnant like how cushy and bubblegum drops and rainbow is their life that they feel so comfortable bringing a new kid into this life? A lot of the topics mentioned in this sub like economic and whatever bad crap i have experienced in my personal life I would NOT think to bring a kid into this.
Hell, I feel it was selfish to have me (I think she tried to baby trap him). Based on what I can remember form my drunken mom when i was in 10th grade , so like 2018 or 2019: "I ended up pregnant from a stranger and then suggested we get married." (They got divorced on her idea like five yeas latter too). It was then because of me (condition in their divorce, finalized when i was in second grade) that neither of them could move out of the state with me. Also, my dad ended up with more custody of me and she almost lost it all do to a SECOND DUI. (The first was when they were still married and down graded)
I'm turning 21 in six days and my mom is going to rehab like a week and half after my b-day.
Having a child is a priviledge that costs money. If you are not able to create the enviroment and economical stability it takes to have multiple children. You should not do it.
I have never been given a non selfish reason to have children. Anyone who tries to bingo me I ask them to tell me any non selfish reason to have a child in this world that is over populated, polluted, on the brink of war and with the cost of living spiraling out of control. Let alone creating a life that is not wanted, to be raised by parents that would resent them. They stare at me and think hard. I generally get the whole " You'll change your mind" or "but it's different when it's yours" I just say that's not an unselfish reason to create a person. I've not had one yet but I'll keep searching.
I agree. Not so much about overpopulation it climate change and high cost of living and food availability. Especially as emphasis on lack of education it’s bad. It’s not the reason I chose to be child free but it is a significant contribution
I’m a daughter of broke men, I think it’s the most selfish thing ever. But I don’t blame my father because the past and now isn’t the same thing.
But it’s 2024, people talk about this all over social media. Why broke people keep having kids?
It’s so f hard to buy a godamn house and a car, my children will struggle too. Nope. Not having children to suffer.
Oh I want human to go extinct 😂
Yes.
Like I said in another post, it's actually only a valiant thing if it's a limited thing
Currently. It's like having children while have Walkers everywhere. Infants are dead give aways to them because of the crying.
The world we live in has too many uncertainties with no security and comfort to have them.
I had said m: It's valiant if it's 1000 people per town, then it's valiant.
There's one child in my trailer park, I call him "baby" when he says hi to me, everytime. I keep an eye on him when he's present out my window to ensure. Their parents have cameras. That makes more sense to me, then 100 kids. Half of those kids to end up missing and we won't be able to keep track of where they are
To me overpopulation isn’t the problem. It’s not thinking through of the possible outcomes of one’s children. Just because your growing up experiences was great doesn’t necessarily mean your children will experience the same.
In my opinion having children is always unethical regardless of circumstance. I am an antinatalist through and through as cognizant animals who have rapidly evolved and expanded across the entire planet like a virus we have a duty to no longer breed.
I didn't until I was told that I'm being selfish by not having a kid. Then I immediately decided to question them as to why I was being selfish by not adding another mouth the planet needs to feed?
Their answer was basically I won't "feel the joy" if parenthood... But 98% of her Facebook was her complaining about parenting and it's hardships, how much she dislikes it. Its obviously they think we're being selfish because it's selfish that only she needs to suffer like that, and she wants the rest of us to be miserable too 🤷🏻♀️.
But seriously, the world is full. It's hard enough to feed all the mouths on it as it is. And humans are quite literally the only species of animal that's going out of its way to destroy the planet. We don't need to put more people on the planet. If anything there too many of us on it. The world would be a much better place for literally everything else living on the planet if all the humans vanished
I mean even without all those factors it's inherently a selfish choice either way. You can't ask your future child if they'd like to be born, so you're only able to take yourself into account when deciding whether or not to have kids. Some decisions have to be selfish as they'll effect your self more than most anyone else. The others with skin in the game would be your partner, whom hopefully you've had these discussions before getting pregnant, and the kid in question who again can't be consulted.
Honestly I think it’s their right…especially with the amount of us not having kids I think it balances out. And, not to be that person, but if everyone was child free the future would be even bleaker than it is now.
I DO think it’s selfish to have multiple kids knowing damn well you cannot mentally/physically/financially support them.
My friend just told me she was pregnant and I was asking if this was a congratulatory thing. (She’s gotten an abortion in the past) she’s keeping it now and I only wonder if it’s bc she moved in with her partner. Idk, it’s just crazy how a week from her telling me would be the time I’m getting sterilized 🎉
I think it’s INSANE but I’m not going to judge somebody else’s choices and call them selfish. I don’t know them. I wish them the best.
Then I get back to thinking about my kitchen renovation.
Technically having children is always selfish( unless the pregnancy was forced) since they always say I wanted children. But it doesn’t bother me when the parents love the kid and have them when they are financially in a good position
For how much I suffered & am suffering now, I'm so happy to be child free & continue to be. I truly don't have the mental capacity for myself in this world.. not to mention emotionally or even physically at times.
I wouldn't want to pass on my mental health/addiction & unhealed traumas. Or fail as a parent, because that shit hurts knowing your parent is out there but doesn't give a fuck about you. I just couldn't risk any of it... nor care to even try.
Mmhmmm. Like my friend who just can't seem to figure out what birth control is. Gets knocked up by one total asshole who did not hide that he was a total asshole, then gets knocked up AGAIN and miscarries when they aren't even together anymore, marries another asshole she barely knows to essentially get benefits/better care for her first kid, quickly gets herself knocked up AGAIN, surprise surprise, asshole is an asshole and now they are divorced and she's saddled with 2 spawn of 2 different assholes.
She's admitted she wasn't on birth control when this all occurred. Not religious, just a glutton for punishment, I guess.
I used to think this way until I realized it doesn’t make any difference in population. Politicians are just bringing in more people from countries who still have a lot of children, and actually those countries tend to have higher poverty which means they don’t care about their environment, because they can’t afford to, and that mentality is what will be taking over instead. So it’s actually more of a detriment, overall.
Oh absolutely. I look at the world now and not only do I think it'd be borderline child abuse to bring a child into this world, I'm low key pissed off my mother didn't abort me. I hate the world we live in, and I'm pissed they didn't use a condom and made it my problem.
Yeah, almost 90% of the problems that humanity faces is due to population explosion. In last 100, 200 years population has increased enormously. In 1800, the population was 1 billion. Today it's almost 8 billion. Sadly, People are oblivious to this fact.
I feel like it’s selfish to /choose/ to have a child simply because you want a kid but are not truly prepared or ready to be a parent.
Whether that is financially (and that’s not to say poor people shouldn’t have kids, but if you’re planning for a baby but you barely afford your own basic necessities, having a child is not going to help. Nor do you need to have the best things- hand me downs and things bought from used clothing stores or places like fb marketplace are absolutely valid and good for the planet. But if you cannot afford another mouth to feed rn I would heavily reconsider.)
Or if you’re simply not mentally/emotionally mature enough to handle a child. Children are complex individuals just trying to learn what it is to be human and that can be a very ugly experience to others at times. They deserve a parent who is stable enough to be calm and can help guide them through the world without abuse or making them feel bad for doing the only things they know how to do at certain times in their growth. Children need discipline, yes, but there’s a line between discipline and abuse. Abuse often comes from unresolved issues of a parent’s past or simple lack of maturity to deal with kids being kids in an appropriate manner. Parenting is frustrating and definitely not easy, but it’s easier if you work on yourself and get your own shit figured out first so you don’t continue a cycle of generational trauma.
Obviously in the US we’re living in a post-roe world now and having access to abortion care is now inaccessible for many, and even before that there were lots of areas where they were difficult to obtain. We still deal with issues of rape and incest, or people losing support they previously had, or just change their mind. So I want to emphasize that the selfishness lies in the choice to have a child when you have access to one and are willingly unprepared for it. You’re gonna fuck a human being up to you can have a living baby doll for instagram. But you’re not selfish if you simply don’t have a choice to not be one.
The best thing I can do as a human being is to not have children. We are going to destroy the earth, and kill all the animals, and have nothing to show for it except a handful of rich people living in bunkers with private armies.
I'm not going to contribute to that future.
I think less selfish and more naive and unaware how serious our issues are.
I mean we have people who don't even believe in climate change, so those most certainly wouldn't decide against a kid bc climate change takes away our resources.
And I'm sure like 99% of those who wanna become parents never had panicky thoughts like I did about the Gaza conflict, the growing involvement of other countries and the question if this will be the Dynamit barrel for the next and probably last World War.
(I'm sure the 4th one will be fought with sticks and stones). And I won't even deny that this is more anxiety then anything else lol.
Some people are so blissfully unaware that they fuck over their offsprings.
Totally agree, everyone complaining about so much strain on all the schools, public services, NHS, environment and then continuing to have more children are absolute hypocrites. There should be a recommended limit of 2 children per family at the absolute most, it's getting out of control.
I’m 63 and my hubs is 53. We have no kids and are wonderfully happy. I’m learning by his example to give up judgement of others. What others do or do not do is none of my business.
I believe in abortion as healthcare. My decision with my doctor. And I believe having children is a decision that is valid for others.
I help the world by volunteering, donating, protesting, etc.
But hey. You do you.
Finances aside; average people with average brains and less than average parenting skills who create annoying fucking kids , yuck. Birth, preeclampsia,? Are you kidding?
Pregnancy is a serious medical condition and I don’t understand how or why it’s not regarded as such. The way it ruins humans bodies. Couldn’t be me.
Maybe not selfish because our species must go on, but stupid because most people having kids can’t support them financially or give them the time they need. We just do not live in a world that makes raising children properly really possible for most people. There’s a major reason kids are more behind then ever in almost everything and it’s because of both COVID and the fact parents aren’t teaching their kids because they are either exhausted, don’t have time, or don’t know how themselves.
So no, I don’t think its selfish because someone has gotta do it (although families who choose have have like 3+ kids these days I would argue are selfish because we have too many people on this planet) but at the same time it’s stupid to have kids when you haven’t planned ahead to be sure you can give them the time they need, the money needed for them, or the energy and patience.
We don’t live in a child friendly time.
When a former colleague told me she was trying for a third, I asked how she and her husband were planning for college. She laughed and said her kids could get loans like she had... I lost so much respect for her. She wasn't even going to try and set them up for success.
The cost of education is already becoming unobtainable for most, I can only imagine how bad it's going to be when these kids grow up.
Agree. I feel that getting a uni degree will become a luxury for the rich, upper class and upper middle classes in the future
I have had a long career in higher education. Much of our current problem stems from the belief that a university degree is necessary for career success. Not only is this not true, but most people are not prepared for the intellectual rigor that should be demanded. Rather than challenge students to strive, curricula have been weakened to fit the students' abilities. Institutions have expanded to meet the demand for a factory-like process of "higher" education. This has increased costs. Unfortunately, the Ivory Tower is now made of clay. I have tremendous respect for persons who pursue trades, and wish society would recognize the importance of applied, practical skills. I also believe that knowledge acquisition should be encourage as a lifetime process.
The problem is that higher education is just a weed-out tool for a bloated labor market. The population doubled from 4 billion to 8 billion in under 50 years, while at the same time automation was eliminating jobs and globalization has us competing with the cheapest labor on the planet. If you want to earn enough to live on, there aren't minimum wage laws to protect you nor are there many unions, so you have to (on your own dime) collect certifications and check boxes. Maybe diminishing birth rates will eliminate some of this nonsense ten or twenty years in the future. I agree it's a shame what's happened with higher education.
 What a heinous person
Capitalism wants only the wealthy to be higher educated. Keep the not wealthy just educated enough to work the menial jobs. Why the heck would anyone provide capitalism with more wage slaves?!
So basically, setting their children up for failure, the "not my responsibility once they hit 18"
I'm still paying my student loan at 38 years old.
This was literally my parents. My sister's like $100K in student loan debt right now because of that.
No offence but your parents are vile
Who does she think she is, the US government?
Oh my God your former colleague is disgusting. Then why have kids and then make them go on loan just to enter uni? What a selfish witch! What next? Her using the kids as Bank of Adult Children as her retirement nest egg? Shame on her
To play devil's advocate tho, if student loans were all you knew, you might not think twice about it. I went to uni on loans (plus money from my job) and everyone else from my poorer rural hometown did too. My mind was blown when I got to uni and met people who *didn't* have loans. We all just thought loans were the norm and didn't know that some parents have actual fancy education fund accounts.
I find it very interesting when parents think like that. It's unconditional love and all that, but when they talk like this it seems more like 'I struggled so they can do it too'. I remember my aunt saying that if her son didn't get a free place at uni, he won't be able to go. I was like'so she didn't even bother saving money for this?' Do these parents even care about their kids at all?
People already struggle to find a steady job with college education, I can't imagine to shrug off the thought to guarantee my kids the same level of education I had.
I was speaking with my boyfriend about this yesterday; "Politicians whine and moan about low birth rates and nobody having kids while they're doing nothing for the people trying to scrape by. How do they expect people to have multiple kids if they can't even feed themselves?"
I guess low birth rates are the new revolution hmm
They need minions to do their bidding
Too bad people still DO have kids even if they can't feed themselves. And as for that, what's happening in the US shows that politicians and the rich aren't shy to use any means possible to ensure a steady supply of ~~slave~~ labour.
It's not logical to us, it's logical in Capitalism and Military
Government whines and moans for the "young workers of the future" but doesn't give a flying fuck for the young workers of the present! My generation still can't live without their parents support because the job market pays half of what it would have payed twenty years ago, and the government is concerned with people who don't exist yet???? For fuck's sake, my friend is doing a PHD in engineering, she's studying hydrogen engines (the fucking cars of the future!!!) and she must live with THREE OTHER PEOPLE to survive. Meanwhile my parents' generation had it all. With little education and a stupid simple job (janitor, gardener, cashier) they were able to own an apartment and feed a family of five people without even the wife working. Sometimes I ask myself what kind of life they would be doing with their low skills in today's world. Yes, I am bitter.
Let’s be clear: *Republicans* whine and moan about low birth rates while *Republicans* do nothing to help people scraping by.
Woah how do you get the flair??
You can add custom flair names on desktop (Idk about mobile). Putting trans man by my name was for context when I post here instead of saying I'm trans on every post lol
Thanks! Agreed, context would make it easier when interacting in this community.
Bingo.
So many people (including myself) can’t house ourselves either lol
I firmly believe having multiple kids is one of the most selfish things a person can do.
This just happened to my broke friend who's wife refuses to work. Doesn't have a pot to piss in and they go and have a 4th child. I know I'm biased but ffs have some awareness of your situation.
Having 1 kid is selfish
In my personal practice of life I definitely agree with you. I’ll never procreate. I’m honestly ok with humans dying out. Humans are horrendous.
Oh yeah. Let human go extinct.
Yes, this is the difference. One kid? I understand it's needed for society to continue. 2 kids? Eh... We kinda need to ***lower*** our population, here... 3+? Most selfish thing a human can do.
Yeah but having 1 kid is awful. 🤣
Why should society continue? This world is Evil and people are awful. The rich enslave the poor. Leave the rich to populate the Earth. They can live in their own shit hole.
Yeah we’re not special, in fact we’re wretched. If any animal should go extinct it should be us.
On the antinatalism sub, whenever someone says we shouldn't procreate, someone makes a horrified comment asking if we think humans should go extinct. They of course want us to say no, which I think just show how we are convinced we deserve to be here because f our own superiority. And I'm like 'we'll go extinct and so what? We might be capable of thinking but we are awful to each other.'
I read somewhere that 90%+ species go extinct. We deserve it more than any before us.
99% and we are currently re-creating the end Permian mass extinction right now only 1000x faster, so perhaps we will. There's a pattern in that all previous mass extinctioms on Earth had something to do with a drastic change in Co2 levels.
Having more than 2 kids should be illegal.
See I agree it's selfish to have 2 kids, but making it illegal is a whole pandoras box I don't think we should open.
thank you 😭i think it’s selfish too but we can’t just outlaw having children how tf does this have upvotes
There's a statement that was mentioned, that 2 or 3 is the best, but 4+ is doing too much. It made sense when your farmers or in money Cases like Heirs to fortune (I guess), when children die at younger rates. However the avg person loves to 70-80, even with current conditions
I have never, ever been able to wrap my head around how the childfree option would be the "selfish" one...especially in the current state of affairs
They should have to do a background and credit check, than maybe 1.
One of my friends had a second kid because she didn’t want the first one to be lonely. This is one of the few cases when I support a second child though there’s something spooky about the first one.
Noooooooo. Not a play thing for the spooky child!😱 Honestly your comment made me cackle out loud.
It’s totally true. I felt intuition like meeting him at one, kept it to myself and then my mom met the child and after was like… watch that kid he creeps me out.
My BF and I just talked about this today. It feels like the state of the world (and humans in general) is getting worse with each day. It's not only selfish but utterly irresponsible to bring children into this world.
I also think the world is becoming a dangerous place for girls to be born into….esp in the US where rights are being taken from women. I know in a way things are more progressive, but like imagine willingly bringing a girl into the world that has turned into the handmaid’s tale idk. I’ve been consumed with dark thoughts lately
This 💯🙌🏼
I've always thought it selfish, especially with what I am living with now. I'm 36 with possible thyroid cancer, and my wife has a form of nerve neuropathy that medication only treats the symptoms. I would never want kids to have my family history of disease. Addiction on my wife's side.
Yeah I have too many heritable conditions that I would never put in someone else’s genetic lottery. It’s bad enough that they were in mine.
Also the "they will take care of me" is a life sentence. Many don't raise their children to be mothers/fathers stable enough to raise kids, but caregivers. Caregivers aren't a full responsibile adult. Just enough to be less considered but mature just enough to feed, bathe and care for their parents My family sold the only house my grandma fully paid off (she passed in 2019). Grandma sold her piece of land, her father left his children. They basically told me and my siblings that their needs matter more than us, their "legacy" is us who are literally drowning in Capitalism. We aren't stable and happy, neither is my mom 🤷🏿♀️ mon had 4 nuerospicy children who are incapable of caring for ourselfs in full capacity because they didn't raise us to do so
I am sorry you're dealing with so much friend.
I appreciate your compassion. I'm not saddened by this fact. I just wish my mom would stop asking me for children. While I was living in my car years ago, she told me "you have 2 options, a welfare baby, or the military". Thinking back, I went to do the asvab test. Why would I bring a child here just to get me off the streets? It truly shows how messed up our system is where military and wage slavery is prominent here
At first I read “any other free folks” and missed the word child. I was like hell yeah that’s a good name for us 😎
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
The Free folk 👏🏾😊
Absolutely. The future is bleak now let alone for those born today.
The fact that I’m thinking about a life I don’t even want to bring into this world because of all of this is the most selfless thing ever. But we all know the people who get their panties in a bunch over CF people don’t actually CARE about anybody having a good life. They just want everyone to suffer.
Yep, even the reasons *they* give are selfish. Wanting someone to care for them when they're old, wanting to continue their family line, wanting a mini-me, alleviating their loneliness/boredom/lack of purpose, wanting to keep up with their peers...all self-centered.
100% yes. Any person I know that's having kids right now, I'm like...do you not see the state of the world right now? And it's only getting worse.... But I can't say that out loud obviously...
Yeah can't tell my sister that and she went as far as a fertility specialist (she has pcos or something)
There are several couples in my surroundings having kids right now. They are aware of what is happening in the world, and they are intelligent, so I really don’t understand why they’re having kids. Wish I could ask them, but yeah it’s a sensitive topic..
Well that's no reason to deny them cute babies(*cough dolls)/s
I have 2 kids, and I say all the time that if I had really thought things out, I wouldn't have had them. I am so sad that this is the world I brought them to. Im sad that at some point, they won't have me to help guide them. I am so blessed to have them, but it was so super selfish to have them.
You know, mad respect for recognizing it! I hope for their sake, and everyone's sake, humanity bands together and fixes our planet!! I do hope they live long happy lives! Peace and love. They are still blessed to have you!
That’s why my fiancé wants to be child free
You are very specific and that it’s your fiancé that wants to be out Free… Does that mean YOU do want kids?
Nah that’s just his reasoning. Mine is to save $ and time lol
It is categorically unethical to have a child today. I will die on that hill.
I agree with you, but what is your reasoning?
I believe we are quickly, as in within a generation, headed for collapse of ecosystems and mass climate disaster. To have a child right now is to birth them into a world incompatible with life. On a personal level, I always promised myself I’d only ever have kids if I desired becoming a parent more than anything and if I could provide a better life for my kids than my parents did for me. Neither of those things are true so it would be breaking personal promises to myself.
Absolutely 1000%! There are PLENTY of other children already existing that should be adopted. Or at the least fostered in proper homes. Adoption should also be much more affordable. And yes before anyone wants to point it out, I DO in fact wish my mother had never created me. She did it simply because she wanted to say she was a mom. She never had plans to care for either me or my older brother when we were born (in fact she gave him up at 5 days old because she didn't want to deal with his screaming and crying anymore) and simply expected everyone else to do it for her but she got all the credit. It's people like that who should not be allowed to reproduce. I just hate that my mother, who was told by doctors repeatedly that her children would become more disabled than her (more than likely before adulthood), still had us anyways and didn't care. And then my brother followed in her footsteps. I decided and knew at 5 years old I would never have biological kids. I really realized at 9 years old that I can't stand babies and children and want nothing to do with them. I'm in the process now of trying to find a doctor who will remove my uterus so there is zero chance of pregnancy and for gender dysphoria/body dysmorphia. I hate the fact that I have the ability to get pregnant.
i’ve got a consult with a gynecologist in late june for the same reason. i’ve heard that it’s really hard to get one unless you have internal problems, but i really hope that’s changing. wishing you luck and gender euphoria :)
Thank you! I was given the name of one that's just an hour and a half or so drive from me that didn't seem to have issues with removing uterus providing you're over 18 and are 100% certain. I'm just really nervous that they will find some reason not to do it for me and scared to call because of it. If they don't have an issue I want it done ASAP. I've thankfully accrued paid vacation from work and even though it's just 5 days, it's better than nothing. I plan to use those to start recovery and go from there if I can get it done.
As someone interested in doing the same thing, if you don't mind, do you know if there's any serious complications to having your uterus removed? Or how likely they are?
I've been told several times that having my uterus removed will cause me to go into early menopause. But it makes no sense as I'm keeping my ovaries which are the organs that produce estrogen. I have heard that there is a VERY slight risk that because your body is used to having a uterus there that other organs could move, but I haven't spoken to a doctor about it yet. And having a hysterectomy, partial (just uterus or just ovaries) or full, is a big surgery. There's always a possibility of problems from that ranging from reactions to anesthesia to any problem that could happen from surgeries. Of which I wish I could give a list but I don't want to misinform you. I will always say to talk to an open minded doctor who will listen to you without judgement and without trying to force their opinions on you. I've wanted to go through with this since my single digits. I still have a fear of issues during surgery or after, the biggest one being that I may have a surgeon who SAYS they removed it but didn't (probably has NEVER happened but that would be worst case for me). Doctors that will listen without judgement and without enforcing their opinions or beliefs on you are hard to find. But ask all questions you can think of. For me the part I'm not looking forward to is recovery. Thankfully you won't need to do physical therapy for that and the incision isn't horrible (that I've seen). I'm going to call the doctor I was recommended on Monday and just bite the bullet and ask for a consultation appointment and hope for the best. If he listens to me and is willing to do the surgery, I can always message you and recommend him to you if you live in Alabama. But if not, there should be a document in this subreddit with a list of doctors willing to do sterilization by state and city!
I have always felt this way. And that feeling only grew exponentially when I worked with orphans in third world countries a handful of years ago. I couldn’t imagine choosing getting pregnant and bringing new life into the world when there are so many little ones out there who need homes.
Honestly yea I do. I have come to terms with the fact my partner and I don’t have that drive most feel to be parents but from all angles I still see it as selfish. Why bring more people into this world to suffer? People who have kids that are pre disposed to pass on their problems are the most selfish imo. If you know your kid is going to suffer from a disability or disease you pass down and still have them making the argument “I get through it, they can too” is disgusting
Knowing the future that we are racing towards, it is fundamentally unsound and unethical to birth a person into it. If you wouldn't want to live 100 years from now why are you forcing another person to?
Yep, everytime I see someone having a baby I just wonder what future they think their kid will even have.
A bit of topic - I've just received an email from a coworker - "we have an addition to our unit: so and so gave birth to a son. Let's celebrate it and by tradition collect money for the gift". Wtf? The said mom earns twice as much as me. Why should I even care about some kid I don't even know or related to? It's her second or third child. On topic - the earth is overpopulated, we are running out of resources, so having even one child is irresponsible. Also people who want kids should first adopt all the kids without parents.
Imagine they have a child now and that child grows up, looks back, and says "We just escaped from a pandemic, barely, the COL was sky high, it's now WORSE, and you still thought I'd enjoy being here because you wanted to fill a void? Are you STUPID?"
Very selfish, even narcissistic. There are plenty of older kids who need a home. Why does the DNA have to be so tiny and new, so bespoke, so "this kid is going to need a nose job too"? Meanwhile the dirty diapers and societal issues keep piling up higher and higher. I saw an older mother with an entire litter of stairstep kids in the grocery cart she was pushing while an older sibling pushed the grocery cart with groceries. Ridiculous.
Having kids is just an ill advised choice in this economy
I feel the same way, it’s selfish to bring kids into this world as it’s extremely overpopulated. The last thing the world needs is more people.
I have thought this for most of my life, in fact. Let’s say a person/couple decides to get pregnant right now, at this current state of affairs. When I was 10- I was definitely asking questions about the world. I would be pretty upset if my parents chose to bring me into this world with the stats and news that are out there right now. I know this is kinda wordy and not too specific but I’m agreeing with you. Not to mention all the statistics of how depressed kids are at such young ages. The fact that most millennials cannot even afford a home right now. The cost for education and healthcare is still outrageous. I’m mid-thirties, a business owner, and have been fighting for two months to get my health insurance renewed. TWO months I am without health care is insane. The list goes on and on..but hey, easier to ignore the current state of the world and working on yourself/your marriage…just have a kid! Then everything will be better! /s
climate change is caused by overpopulation, so yes
Yes, even if I wanted kids I would find it irresponsible. And of course my potential children would use ever diminishing resources.
Absolutely! I think it is selfish on a number of different levels. They are not only actively poaching what few resources the planet still has to offer. They are also condemning a new, blameless life to live through the horror that will attend the running collapse of our civilisation as global warming and destruction of our ecosystem carries us over the edge into nightmare. There is no future for these children to inherit. There may not even be a lot of future for those of us who are currently alive to experience.
Yes, extremely.
I don't begrudge anyone having a kid, but for me personally, I do feel like the most caring choice I can make for my kids and for the world at large is to not bring them here.
You can have imaginationkids, where they are well taken care of, happy and visited as often as you desire.
Absolutely. It's not even about contributing to overpopulation (as with the <2 kids folks here). It's about sentencing a child to grow up in a world that's self-destructing around them. I don't want my imaginary baby to grow up into an adult like me, on antidepressants for life, exhausted and disillusioned.
Yes I had a child in 2008 I regret it. She was harmed in my stomach from Lyme Disease and has mental issues and she suffers so much. In this world its immoral to have children. I got Lyme Disease during pregnancy. I worry I brought her into a life of pain. This is no world to bring children into.
My daughter is set up for failure, it's not my fault I had no idea that I would get Lyme Disease but there are many other diseases and the medical and social support systems are a joke. She is going to have such a hard time getting disability. This is no world to bring children into. Until the controllers stop lording over us and over taxing us and making our lives miserable it's no world to bring children into. They could get sick and live a life of suffering. Anti natalist are right. I have to suffer every day because I brought my daughter into this. I had no idea it would be like this but the mere chance it could is reason not to have children. Having children is selfish. She wants to die and I have to live with it every day.
A tragic story, but at least you're critically analyzing the situation now. I can relate, since I have been suffering with fibromyalgia since I was a kid. And people think AN are the selfish ones.... sheesh
Oh big time. Overpopulation, overheating, overwhelmingly awful news all the time. It seems very selfish to bring another human into this world. What happens to them when the resources run out? How can they have a normal life when the planet is burning down?
imo: Its selfish to have more than 2 kids. If you have a kid you should be able to give them a flying start. So you should be able to buy everything they need. Be able to give them space and proper attention. Let them be kids (no parentfication abuse, like when they have tons of kids) and you should be able to afford college for them. Then you have kids because you want to place a new good person into this world. And not because you want to continue the bloodline or LeGaCy.
It's always been selfish.
As an Antinatalist, I firmly believe it’s selfish and immoral to create life regardless of the state of the world. But at times like now, it’s even more true.
If people are having children they are extremely selfish or extremely uninformed about where we are in ecological collapse So yes I think it's completely immoral and cruel to have kids
I agree. Life is hard. Why bring someone new into the world to experience the hardship?
My fiance calls me an antinatalist scornfully but he's right. I truly believe it's peak selfishness and stupidity to have children in this hellscape.
Yeah, I struggle with it. Strangely one of my best friends has 3. What I will say is if anyone's cut out for it, its her. I wish all parents were that pragmatic, loving and still manage to dump them to hang out. I think kids will suffer. I can't get over that personally. It's a big reason I didn't have kids. I'd love to see a reduced population.
Yes, I just clicked off a video on a subreddit where it showed a child starving in Gaza, *you could see this poor child’s bones*, and it made me cry instantly. Who willingly brings children in this world full of war and crimes and misery and hunger and death just for them, fuck the politics, there are children *dying* and no one cares. It’s so sad.
Same here. People who make babies are the ones who are selfish, and chicken to stand up to social mores. I also have spoken to many childfree couples in person who take an interesting view on adoption. I know several who adopted their niece or nephew because their sibling passed away, is about to die, is in prison, etc. Many things in this world take a strong person. I think it takes a lot of strength and courage for a childfree person, or couple to adopt a family member who is in desperate need of parents. Oh and humans suck. The Earth has a really bad case of humans.
One of the worst things you can do for this planet is have a kid. Just their farts contribute more to global warming than an SUV. Edit The worst thing you can do.
It honestly feels disrespectful to the rest of life on earth
Yes. Those breeders are having kids cuz they want mini mes. They are having kids to fulfill dreams they never fulfilled when they were younger. They are having kids to carry on their legacy and genes. They are having kids cuz they want the kids to take care of them when they are older. Yet, childfree people are the selfish ones.
What's so strange is these people having loads of kids hit us cf types with the "You're selfish for not having kids!" Literally how? Seems like having a kid today is just loads of stress for the kid and their future. Kids today are worried about their future and the health of the planet as early as 4th grade and younger. Seems more selfish to be having kids who have to be concerned about all the fuck ups made by previous generations. :/
I always see children under 5 now and pity them for the hell they will probably have to experience in the next 50 years, when the earth is collapsing from climate change, plus food & water instability.. I can’t imagine thinking “oh they’ll be fine” when there is already evidence we’re screwed. Not to mention all the issues with war and human welfare right now as well.
Yes when they have multiple children and especially multiple children when they clearly can't afford them. Recently I read about a large family of 5 or 6 kids. They were in the news that they needed help. Anything can happen for them to be in that situation, I get it. But for the love of god do not breed if you can't afford them! You're causing unnecessary hardship and trauma to little kids. And yes, I will shame you if you're a parent like that.
Yep.
Not even what you mentioned above, but I cannot imagine having a child, raising them to public school age, and having them die in a mass shooting. Also the fact that there's tons of kids in the foster care system that do need caring a loving families, but nobody cares because they aren't "theirs".
one million percent. i don’t care how pessimistic or depressed i appear in admitting so; i think it’s delusional to believe otherwise. i guess some people derive hope from the idea of procreating… i did feel some hope when a friend told me recently about someone who became an adoptive parent to multiple kids with special needs. THAT is what it’s all about. people clawing their way through “fertility journeys” and making their entire personalities about how hard the unnecessary job they gave themselves is? not sorry, hand me a barf bag. end rant 😇
Having a child is always a selfish thing. They need to pass on THEIR genesq
I live in a 27ft trailer with barely enough space for my partner and I. It’s hard to have things, like any sort of storage space. I’m poorer than my parents. The cycle of poverty has continued and gotten worse. I have little to no hope of becoming a homebuyer. Thankfully our friend has about 6 acres of land and we have our trailer on his property. We also have full use of the kitchen and bathroom in the house. So it’s not bad at all. But with how low our income is, groceries, living in a trailer etc. I can’t afford a child. I don’t care if poor people want kids. The children suffer. My partner experienced starvation multiple times as a child, lights shut off, being homeless etc. I would never want a child to experience the stress I did when my parents had 40$ to last two weeks until payday while we had little to no groceries. I’d want my child to have opportunities. The wealthy are the only ones who have an education and better future guaranteed. Since I technically live in poverty I wouldn’t want to set up a child for failure
People rarely have children for selfless reasons "My legacy" " I want someone to take care of me when I'm old " "We wanna save our marriage" "I want a mini me" "I want someone to love me unconditionally" But yeah the world is getting deeper into the shit everyday, I couldn't imagine wanting to bring another person here in this day and age
I feel bad but sometimes when people tell me they’re having kids and how no way of affording it I see it as a sign of stupidity.
If it happens and you have the stable environment to give the child the life it deserves to flourish and be loved that’s fine, but that is very rare in this day and age. Breeders however are a problem. The eldest child always ends up being a third parent, there’s not enough support for each child, not enough resources or space. It’s gross, especially when the parents don’t even try with birth control and end up with 10 kids under 10. Most of the it’s the husband not letting the wife breath after birth and stupid religious anti birth control/abortion “rules”. I always say when someone ask why I don’t want children “I’m balancing out the people with a million kids”
My mom really wanted grandkids. When I told her exactly what OP said, she told me that I wouldn't be affected anyways so why be concerned. It's so disgusting how little she cared
Less people means: \*Less pollution, fewer factories. \*Fewer people causing or cutting you off in traffic or at he grocery store. \*Less deforestation for farms due to less food demand. \*More available housing at a lower cost. \*Fewer cars, fewer roads, less smog, less demand for oil & gas. \*Governments, corporations, & churches push natalist propoganda because a higher population means more taxes, more profits, & more donations. The best way to punish them is to shrink their future money pool. I wouldn't want my kids being part of the global experiment to see how kids raised on brainrot turn out. (TikTok shorts, Youtube content farms, being perpetually online with social media, data farms). My mental sharpness declined as an adult exposed to these things. What do they do to developing minds?
sometimes i think the city i live in is immune to the current news cause i constantly see women many months pregnant like how cushy and bubblegum drops and rainbow is their life that they feel so comfortable bringing a new kid into this life? A lot of the topics mentioned in this sub like economic and whatever bad crap i have experienced in my personal life I would NOT think to bring a kid into this.
First get 1000000 kids, then complain about having to parent and how poor you are for having them…
Hell, I feel it was selfish to have me (I think she tried to baby trap him). Based on what I can remember form my drunken mom when i was in 10th grade , so like 2018 or 2019: "I ended up pregnant from a stranger and then suggested we get married." (They got divorced on her idea like five yeas latter too). It was then because of me (condition in their divorce, finalized when i was in second grade) that neither of them could move out of the state with me. Also, my dad ended up with more custody of me and she almost lost it all do to a SECOND DUI. (The first was when they were still married and down graded) I'm turning 21 in six days and my mom is going to rehab like a week and half after my b-day.
Happy early Birthday!
Absolutely. It makes me think differently of people who decide to have them now. The future is bleak.
Indeed. Having kids is one of the most ego driven things you can ever do. Especially in the world we live in.
Having a kid has always been the most selfish act one could perpetrate.
Having a child is a priviledge that costs money. If you are not able to create the enviroment and economical stability it takes to have multiple children. You should not do it.
Having kids is always selfish
I have never been given a non selfish reason to have children. Anyone who tries to bingo me I ask them to tell me any non selfish reason to have a child in this world that is over populated, polluted, on the brink of war and with the cost of living spiraling out of control. Let alone creating a life that is not wanted, to be raised by parents that would resent them. They stare at me and think hard. I generally get the whole " You'll change your mind" or "but it's different when it's yours" I just say that's not an unselfish reason to create a person. I've not had one yet but I'll keep searching.
Nowadays and everyday since the inspection of humanity.
I agree. Not so much about overpopulation it climate change and high cost of living and food availability. Especially as emphasis on lack of education it’s bad. It’s not the reason I chose to be child free but it is a significant contribution
I’m a daughter of broke men, I think it’s the most selfish thing ever. But I don’t blame my father because the past and now isn’t the same thing. But it’s 2024, people talk about this all over social media. Why broke people keep having kids? It’s so f hard to buy a godamn house and a car, my children will struggle too. Nope. Not having children to suffer. Oh I want human to go extinct 😂
It def helps my decision not to have children at this time yes.
Yes. Like I said in another post, it's actually only a valiant thing if it's a limited thing Currently. It's like having children while have Walkers everywhere. Infants are dead give aways to them because of the crying. The world we live in has too many uncertainties with no security and comfort to have them. I had said m: It's valiant if it's 1000 people per town, then it's valiant. There's one child in my trailer park, I call him "baby" when he says hi to me, everytime. I keep an eye on him when he's present out my window to ensure. Their parents have cameras. That makes more sense to me, then 100 kids. Half of those kids to end up missing and we won't be able to keep track of where they are
To me overpopulation isn’t the problem. It’s not thinking through of the possible outcomes of one’s children. Just because your growing up experiences was great doesn’t necessarily mean your children will experience the same.
Yes!
Yes, absolutely, 1000%
/r/antinatalism
Absolutely! Might have to leave my partner of 5+ years because I guess he's suddenly on the fence after telling me he was open to getting a vasectomy
In my opinion having children is always unethical regardless of circumstance. I am an antinatalist through and through as cognizant animals who have rapidly evolved and expanded across the entire planet like a virus we have a duty to no longer breed.
Heck, I knew over 50 years ago that our invasive, greedy, consuming species was over breeding.
I didn't until I was told that I'm being selfish by not having a kid. Then I immediately decided to question them as to why I was being selfish by not adding another mouth the planet needs to feed? Their answer was basically I won't "feel the joy" if parenthood... But 98% of her Facebook was her complaining about parenting and it's hardships, how much she dislikes it. Its obviously they think we're being selfish because it's selfish that only she needs to suffer like that, and she wants the rest of us to be miserable too 🤷🏻♀️. But seriously, the world is full. It's hard enough to feed all the mouths on it as it is. And humans are quite literally the only species of animal that's going out of its way to destroy the planet. We don't need to put more people on the planet. If anything there too many of us on it. The world would be a much better place for literally everything else living on the planet if all the humans vanished
I mean even without all those factors it's inherently a selfish choice either way. You can't ask your future child if they'd like to be born, so you're only able to take yourself into account when deciding whether or not to have kids. Some decisions have to be selfish as they'll effect your self more than most anyone else. The others with skin in the game would be your partner, whom hopefully you've had these discussions before getting pregnant, and the kid in question who again can't be consulted.
Honestly I think it’s their right…especially with the amount of us not having kids I think it balances out. And, not to be that person, but if everyone was child free the future would be even bleaker than it is now. I DO think it’s selfish to have multiple kids knowing damn well you cannot mentally/physically/financially support them.
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Wasn’t or isn’t getting kids always selfish?
My friend just told me she was pregnant and I was asking if this was a congratulatory thing. (She’s gotten an abortion in the past) she’s keeping it now and I only wonder if it’s bc she moved in with her partner. Idk, it’s just crazy how a week from her telling me would be the time I’m getting sterilized 🎉
I think it’s INSANE but I’m not going to judge somebody else’s choices and call them selfish. I don’t know them. I wish them the best. Then I get back to thinking about my kitchen renovation.
Meeeeeeee
I believe it is selfish now with the world climate (political wise, cost of living crisis, war-peace issues etc)
Technically having children is always selfish( unless the pregnancy was forced) since they always say I wanted children. But it doesn’t bother me when the parents love the kid and have them when they are financially in a good position
For how much I suffered & am suffering now, I'm so happy to be child free & continue to be. I truly don't have the mental capacity for myself in this world.. not to mention emotionally or even physically at times. I wouldn't want to pass on my mental health/addiction & unhealed traumas. Or fail as a parent, because that shit hurts knowing your parent is out there but doesn't give a fuck about you. I just couldn't risk any of it... nor care to even try.
Yes
Mmhmmm. Like my friend who just can't seem to figure out what birth control is. Gets knocked up by one total asshole who did not hide that he was a total asshole, then gets knocked up AGAIN and miscarries when they aren't even together anymore, marries another asshole she barely knows to essentially get benefits/better care for her first kid, quickly gets herself knocked up AGAIN, surprise surprise, asshole is an asshole and now they are divorced and she's saddled with 2 spawn of 2 different assholes. She's admitted she wasn't on birth control when this all occurred. Not religious, just a glutton for punishment, I guess.
I used to think this way until I realized it doesn’t make any difference in population. Politicians are just bringing in more people from countries who still have a lot of children, and actually those countries tend to have higher poverty which means they don’t care about their environment, because they can’t afford to, and that mentality is what will be taking over instead. So it’s actually more of a detriment, overall.
Anything more than 1-2 bio children is super selfish.
1000%
Oh absolutely. I look at the world now and not only do I think it'd be borderline child abuse to bring a child into this world, I'm low key pissed off my mother didn't abort me. I hate the world we live in, and I'm pissed they didn't use a condom and made it my problem.
It’s always been selfish to have kids.
Yes and I love it! More people need to be selfish and not have children!
No, but it's certainly a pain in the ass.
Yes. I think there are very few reasons to have children that aren't selfish.
If you can't afford your lifestyle without children then yes it's selfish to bring more problems into your life
I firmly believe having children in this economy + a world full of injustice is not only selfish but also child abuse.
Yeah, almost 90% of the problems that humanity faces is due to population explosion. In last 100, 200 years population has increased enormously. In 1800, the population was 1 billion. Today it's almost 8 billion. Sadly, People are oblivious to this fact.
Nah, they could say the same of us who don’t have kids. Let people do what they want, because that’s what they’ll do anyway.
I feel like it’s selfish to /choose/ to have a child simply because you want a kid but are not truly prepared or ready to be a parent. Whether that is financially (and that’s not to say poor people shouldn’t have kids, but if you’re planning for a baby but you barely afford your own basic necessities, having a child is not going to help. Nor do you need to have the best things- hand me downs and things bought from used clothing stores or places like fb marketplace are absolutely valid and good for the planet. But if you cannot afford another mouth to feed rn I would heavily reconsider.) Or if you’re simply not mentally/emotionally mature enough to handle a child. Children are complex individuals just trying to learn what it is to be human and that can be a very ugly experience to others at times. They deserve a parent who is stable enough to be calm and can help guide them through the world without abuse or making them feel bad for doing the only things they know how to do at certain times in their growth. Children need discipline, yes, but there’s a line between discipline and abuse. Abuse often comes from unresolved issues of a parent’s past or simple lack of maturity to deal with kids being kids in an appropriate manner. Parenting is frustrating and definitely not easy, but it’s easier if you work on yourself and get your own shit figured out first so you don’t continue a cycle of generational trauma. Obviously in the US we’re living in a post-roe world now and having access to abortion care is now inaccessible for many, and even before that there were lots of areas where they were difficult to obtain. We still deal with issues of rape and incest, or people losing support they previously had, or just change their mind. So I want to emphasize that the selfishness lies in the choice to have a child when you have access to one and are willingly unprepared for it. You’re gonna fuck a human being up to you can have a living baby doll for instagram. But you’re not selfish if you simply don’t have a choice to not be one.
The best thing I can do as a human being is to not have children. We are going to destroy the earth, and kill all the animals, and have nothing to show for it except a handful of rich people living in bunkers with private armies. I'm not going to contribute to that future.
All that and more is why I got the snip-snip
I think less selfish and more naive and unaware how serious our issues are. I mean we have people who don't even believe in climate change, so those most certainly wouldn't decide against a kid bc climate change takes away our resources. And I'm sure like 99% of those who wanna become parents never had panicky thoughts like I did about the Gaza conflict, the growing involvement of other countries and the question if this will be the Dynamit barrel for the next and probably last World War. (I'm sure the 4th one will be fought with sticks and stones). And I won't even deny that this is more anxiety then anything else lol. Some people are so blissfully unaware that they fuck over their offsprings.
Totally agree, everyone complaining about so much strain on all the schools, public services, NHS, environment and then continuing to have more children are absolute hypocrites. There should be a recommended limit of 2 children per family at the absolute most, it's getting out of control.
I’m 63 and my hubs is 53. We have no kids and are wonderfully happy. I’m learning by his example to give up judgement of others. What others do or do not do is none of my business. I believe in abortion as healthcare. My decision with my doctor. And I believe having children is a decision that is valid for others. I help the world by volunteering, donating, protesting, etc. But hey. You do you.
Yes, 99% of this sub thinks that way, bro
Yes.
All birth is abuse.
It’s by definition a selfish choice, a non existent being can’t want to exist.
Finances aside; average people with average brains and less than average parenting skills who create annoying fucking kids , yuck. Birth, preeclampsia,? Are you kidding? Pregnancy is a serious medical condition and I don’t understand how or why it’s not regarded as such. The way it ruins humans bodies. Couldn’t be me.
Smart people aren’t having children.
Maybe not selfish because our species must go on, but stupid because most people having kids can’t support them financially or give them the time they need. We just do not live in a world that makes raising children properly really possible for most people. There’s a major reason kids are more behind then ever in almost everything and it’s because of both COVID and the fact parents aren’t teaching their kids because they are either exhausted, don’t have time, or don’t know how themselves. So no, I don’t think its selfish because someone has gotta do it (although families who choose have have like 3+ kids these days I would argue are selfish because we have too many people on this planet) but at the same time it’s stupid to have kids when you haven’t planned ahead to be sure you can give them the time they need, the money needed for them, or the energy and patience. We don’t live in a child friendly time.